WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:18.967 --> 00:00:20.617 Riccardo Stewart: Hey, I wanna welcome you guys back to another 00:00:20.617 --> 00:00:23.527 episode of the A-W-M-N-F-L Podcast. 00:00:23.557 --> 00:00:26.347 My name is Ricardo Stewart, I'm your host, and I'm joined 00:00:26.347 --> 00:00:28.027 with my friends and coworkers. 00:00:28.027 --> 00:00:30.727 We got Jeff Lock, Zach Miller, and Sam Acho. 00:00:31.057 --> 00:00:34.807 I mean, I gotta combine 20 plus years here of NFL playing 00:00:34.807 --> 00:00:37.147 experience plus financial expertise. 00:00:37.537 --> 00:00:38.752 Listen, we've been talking about. 00:00:39.562 --> 00:00:43.642 Or we begin the conversation of the athlete, CEO and, and really looking 00:00:43.672 --> 00:00:48.532 la last episode at how do athletes view themselves as a business? 00:00:48.892 --> 00:00:53.902 And then how does that business begin to, to merge into the business of the NFL? 00:00:54.052 --> 00:00:58.162 And so one was creating value, like what does it look like to create value? 00:00:58.822 --> 00:01:02.452 And today I want to talk guys about okay, once you've created that value. 00:01:02.812 --> 00:01:07.492 And you've been able to enhance that intellectual, social and physical capital 00:01:07.522 --> 00:01:11.842 that now you have teams, companies, brands being to compensate you for that value. 00:01:11.842 --> 00:01:13.942 Like what does that actually look like? 00:01:14.332 --> 00:01:16.582 And the athlete we looked at, because it was pertinent and 00:01:16.582 --> 00:01:18.382 relevant now, is Brock Purdy. 00:01:18.412 --> 00:01:22.792 And, and, and I wanna look today of like, how do you realize that? 00:01:22.792 --> 00:01:27.592 And so some language I've heard before is how do you make the invisible visible. 00:01:28.252 --> 00:01:30.202 Oftentimes that's, that's religious language. 00:01:30.202 --> 00:01:33.502 But I don't think it's just relegated to the religious, I think 00:01:33.502 --> 00:01:34.882 it's to anybody who's a believer. 00:01:35.452 --> 00:01:38.572 And the thing about being an NFL athlete is you are a believer. 00:01:38.602 --> 00:01:41.782 You are a believer first and foremost in yourself and your ability. 00:01:42.112 --> 00:01:46.462 And then when you begin to get others to see and believe in that ability, 00:01:46.702 --> 00:01:48.217 there's some things that can happen. 00:01:48.382 --> 00:01:52.132 And so Jeff, I'm gonna start with you, the professor. 00:01:52.732 --> 00:01:55.552 We've talked about the business of the NFL athlete merging with 00:01:55.552 --> 00:01:57.322 the Ben business of the NFL. 00:01:57.532 --> 00:02:03.652 Walk us through that and, and, and particularly NFL contracts and how, I 00:02:03.652 --> 00:02:09.652 mean, how many NFL players have made over a $100M What does that, those contracts, 00:02:09.712 --> 00:02:13.612 how does that compare with our other major sports, uh, counterparts in terms 00:02:13.612 --> 00:02:16.612 of MLB and and and NBA and so forth? 00:02:16.752 --> 00:02:17.742 Jeff Locke: Yeah, it makes me, makes me a little mad, Rick. 00:02:17.742 --> 00:02:17.772 I 00:02:18.737 --> 00:02:22.242 I don't really love sharing these stats, but like to truly understand what you 00:02:22.242 --> 00:02:25.572 can capture after you create value, you gotta know how NFL contracts work. 00:02:25.842 --> 00:02:27.252 Plain and simple, right? 00:02:27.252 --> 00:02:27.612 So. 00:02:28.797 --> 00:02:36.207 Active players with contracts over $100M in the NFL 43 guys, right? 00:02:36.267 --> 00:02:40.587 Contracts over a hundred mil active players, but the catch 00:02:41.127 --> 00:02:47.817 only 20 of those 43 have actual guaranteed money over $100M right? 00:02:47.847 --> 00:02:51.567 Contracts look big, but it's all about the guarantees. 00:02:52.767 --> 00:02:54.177 MLB, right? 00:02:54.207 --> 00:02:57.957 Very different 68 active players. 00:02:59.532 --> 00:03:04.542 With contracts over $100M all fully guaranteed contracts, right? 00:03:05.202 --> 00:03:06.222 No non-guaranteed money. 00:03:06.222 --> 00:03:08.412 There MBA's even better. 00:03:09.162 --> 00:03:15.222 82 active guys with a $100M or more contracts, all fully guaranteed. 00:03:15.762 --> 00:03:20.472 So 20 fully 20 guys in the NFL with $100M+ guarantees. 00:03:21.102 --> 00:03:21.852 Verse 68. 00:03:21.852 --> 00:03:25.632 Verse 82, MLB and NBA. 00:03:28.947 --> 00:03:30.177 Riccardo Stewart: Well, my grandfather would've. 00:03:30.177 --> 00:03:31.982 My grandfather said, that's some bull junk. 00:03:33.922 --> 00:03:35.062 That's some bull junk. 00:03:35.577 --> 00:03:39.927 I, you, you said, Jeff, you said in order for you to be this athlete, CEO, 00:03:40.287 --> 00:03:43.287 you really do need to understand when it comes to capturing the value that you've 00:03:43.287 --> 00:03:45.447 created, you have to understand contracts. 00:03:45.447 --> 00:03:48.327 And so I appreciate you sharing all the different, you know, stats of how many 00:03:48.327 --> 00:03:49.557 people made over a hundred million. 00:03:49.932 --> 00:03:53.712 Zach, you're, you're probably one of the best guys I know in, in breaking 00:03:53.712 --> 00:03:55.212 down and understanding contracts. 00:03:55.212 --> 00:03:58.932 And so let's pull the name we used from last episode, Brock Purdy into this. 00:03:59.052 --> 00:04:03.702 And if you can take what we know and we can see about his particular contract, 00:04:03.792 --> 00:04:08.592 uh, without being his agent and so forth, just begin to, to break down that 00:04:08.592 --> 00:04:10.927 contract in a way that that helps us. 00:04:12.712 --> 00:04:14.692 Zach Miller: It's cool to see these contracts 'cause they are, 00:04:14.722 --> 00:04:17.752 they are so complicated when you get to these dollar amounts. 00:04:17.752 --> 00:04:23.632 So five year extension for Brock Purdy, 265 million, I mean, massive 00:04:23.632 --> 00:04:27.682 amount of money, but cool to see the, what everyone always wants to 00:04:27.682 --> 00:04:28.762 know is like, oh, how much, what? 00:04:28.762 --> 00:04:29.962 You know, what's the signing bonus? 00:04:29.962 --> 00:04:31.192 What are the guarantees? 00:04:31.192 --> 00:04:34.492 And so $40 million paid as a signing bonus. 00:04:34.492 --> 00:04:38.122 That truly is fully guaranteed money, assuming you show up. 00:04:38.637 --> 00:04:43.287 Complete the contract, you're getting that money and then that, you know, a lot of 00:04:43.287 --> 00:04:47.037 it was written in the news that it was like a hundred million kind of guaranteed 00:04:47.037 --> 00:04:49.677 up signing, um, or fully guaranteed. 00:04:49.677 --> 00:04:52.257 And then you, there was another 180 plus million out there. 00:04:52.887 --> 00:04:54.897 There's two differences between the guarantees. 00:04:54.897 --> 00:04:58.177 There's fully guaranteed, which means fully guaranteed for. 00:04:58.177 --> 00:05:03.357 skill cap and injury Meaning If you just don't play well, if they're, if the 00:05:03.477 --> 00:05:07.137 they're over the salary cap and they need to cut you, that money's fully guaranteed, 00:05:07.137 --> 00:05:08.787 meaning you're getting that money. 00:05:09.147 --> 00:05:13.887 And so for Brock Purdy, that number's $100M And then guaranteed for injury is 00:05:13.887 --> 00:05:15.807 sometimes also called guaranteed money. 00:05:16.157 --> 00:05:19.047 because the assumption is that you're gonna continue to play at a high level. 00:05:19.197 --> 00:05:20.327 The only reason you wouldn't. 00:05:20.327 --> 00:05:22.807 get that is if you got hurt And so that's kind of the difference 00:05:22.807 --> 00:05:24.147 between fully Guaranteed. 00:05:24.497 --> 00:05:27.882 and guaranteed money So that's a big difference between those two numbers. 00:05:27.882 --> 00:05:32.262 $100M vs $180M for Brock Purdy and then you have other things 00:05:32.262 --> 00:05:36.972 like the value of the contract that's gonna be like really what? 00:05:37.752 --> 00:05:39.882 Players compare themselves to other players. 00:05:39.882 --> 00:05:42.552 I know when I signed my deal, I wanted to be, you know, the highest 00:05:42.552 --> 00:05:43.842 paid tight end in the league. 00:05:44.142 --> 00:05:48.282 Brock pretty wants to be one of the top paid quarterbacks in the league, so he got 00:05:48.282 --> 00:05:53.172 that kind of top 10 quarterback money when it comes to the annual money per year. 00:05:53.802 --> 00:05:58.782 And that you, you think about that, that's, that's like what Dak Prescott got. 00:05:58.812 --> 00:06:04.032 Joe Burrow, Josh Allen Mahomes, he's in that league When comes to compensation. 00:06:05.472 --> 00:06:11.742 It's, it's, it's not without negotiation, the 49 ERs, they know 00:06:11.742 --> 00:06:13.422 that they wanna protect themselves. 00:06:13.422 --> 00:06:14.862 So what do they do on the backend? 00:06:15.192 --> 00:06:17.442 They gave themselves an out of the contract. 00:06:17.442 --> 00:06:22.392 After three years, they can get out of the contract, still paying a significant 00:06:22.392 --> 00:06:26.172 amount of money, but they have, you know, the last three years are about 00:06:26.172 --> 00:06:30.372 50 million each that they can get out of that within the next two years. 00:06:30.372 --> 00:06:30.672 So. 00:06:31.917 --> 00:06:37.527 Negotiation of this magnitude, GMs general managers, they are fighting for the health 00:06:37.527 --> 00:06:39.567 of the team, fighting against the players. 00:06:40.077 --> 00:06:40.557 players. 00:06:40.887 --> 00:06:44.427 have to use every ounce of leverage they can get so that they can kind 00:06:44.427 --> 00:06:46.617 of hit that most amount of money. 00:06:47.532 --> 00:06:50.232 Get as much as you can early for any NFL player. 00:06:50.502 --> 00:06:53.472 As much money as you can get front loaded in the front of that contract because 00:06:53.472 --> 00:06:57.132 the last few years of an NFL contract are not worth the paper they're written on. 00:06:57.132 --> 00:07:00.312 Team can rip that up and not pay you out those last years. 00:07:00.312 --> 00:07:03.042 So get as much as you can in those early years as much as 00:07:03.042 --> 00:07:04.362 you can get fully guaranteed. 00:07:05.037 --> 00:07:05.607 Riccardo Stewart: I love it. 00:07:05.667 --> 00:07:11.067 I love it when, when I was a kid, I'm old and you would, I'd stay home 00:07:11.067 --> 00:07:14.487 from school and you would watch like the Price is Right or some sort of 00:07:14.487 --> 00:07:16.467 game shows and I absolutely love it. 00:07:16.797 --> 00:07:19.317 And there's always be like, you would win the prize and the person would 00:07:19.317 --> 00:07:22.977 get all excited and then, and then the host would go, but there's more. 00:07:23.007 --> 00:07:23.367 Right? 00:07:23.967 --> 00:07:24.507 Okay. 00:07:24.957 --> 00:07:26.307 Black Party didn't win a prize. 00:07:26.307 --> 00:07:27.507 We clearly said he earned it. 00:07:27.507 --> 00:07:29.097 NFL Athletes, they earn it. 00:07:29.847 --> 00:07:32.157 But that's what they earn on the field. 00:07:32.247 --> 00:07:38.037 There's still more to capture in terms of the value that you created, Sam, the same 00:07:38.037 --> 00:07:41.727 way I said Zach was good with contract in terms of people on this screen. 00:07:41.727 --> 00:07:42.687 You know what I mean? 00:07:42.687 --> 00:07:46.587 And you know where I'm going is how does that work and capturing your value 00:07:46.587 --> 00:07:48.267 that you've created off the field. 00:07:48.807 --> 00:07:49.467 Sam Acho: Oh, that's so good. 00:07:49.467 --> 00:07:50.187 Such a good question. 00:07:50.187 --> 00:07:51.747 I love the the example, but wait. 00:07:52.062 --> 00:07:52.692 There's more. 00:07:53.172 --> 00:07:54.462 So Zach makes a great point. 00:07:54.462 --> 00:07:57.042 Oftentimes when I look at contracts I look at what's guaranteed. 00:07:57.222 --> 00:07:58.032 That's what I look at. 00:07:58.032 --> 00:08:00.432 But okay, even if you look at what's guaranteed or the average 00:08:00.432 --> 00:08:04.122 annual value, there's more that can be had off of the field as well. 00:08:04.122 --> 00:08:08.052 Specifically when it comes to whatever market that you're in, as as an active 00:08:08.052 --> 00:08:11.922 player, one of the biggest ways to capture value is to endear yourself 00:08:11.922 --> 00:08:13.812 to the community in which you play. 00:08:13.992 --> 00:08:15.432 And so whether that's with some of the. 00:08:15.447 --> 00:08:18.207 Media relations team, whether that's with some of the people 00:08:18.207 --> 00:08:19.647 who are doing community service. 00:08:19.647 --> 00:08:23.067 As you get yourself more known in your community, all of a sudden 00:08:23.187 --> 00:08:28.107 there's gonna be local brand spart, uh, brand sponsors, local partners 00:08:28.257 --> 00:08:29.367 that want to partner with you. 00:08:29.367 --> 00:08:30.537 And then obviously we're talking about. 00:08:30.782 --> 00:08:34.202 About Brock Purdy in this scenario, there are national partners that are 00:08:34.322 --> 00:08:37.082 not necessarily working at, worried about Brock Purdy's contract on the 00:08:37.082 --> 00:08:39.242 field, but they're looking at his play. 00:08:39.422 --> 00:08:41.552 They're saying, okay, this guy's a quarterback playing at a high 00:08:41.552 --> 00:08:44.192 level, going to championship games, going to Super Bowls, right? 00:08:44.192 --> 00:08:45.512 Recognizable face, boom. 00:08:45.512 --> 00:08:47.612 Toyota National commercial, right? 00:08:47.612 --> 00:08:49.022 That's off the field income. 00:08:49.142 --> 00:08:49.502 Alright, boom. 00:08:49.502 --> 00:08:52.892 You're looking at the Arby's national commercial that's off the field income. 00:08:52.892 --> 00:08:55.082 And so you don't have to be the star quarterback. 00:08:55.082 --> 00:08:57.872 You don't have to even be the, the, the, the star, uh, you know. 00:08:58.452 --> 00:08:58.932 Receiver. 00:08:58.932 --> 00:09:01.392 Oftentimes there are these positions that people get a lot more attention, 00:09:01.662 --> 00:09:06.192 but even if you're at a local community, right, you can grow your, you can turn 00:09:06.192 --> 00:09:11.832 your brand into a business by, by playing great on the field, but not being afraid 00:09:11.832 --> 00:09:14.562 to build relationships off of it as well. 00:09:14.562 --> 00:09:16.722 And that's what we're seeing Brock Purdy do, right? 00:09:16.722 --> 00:09:18.012 He's keeping his, his. 00:09:19.242 --> 00:09:23.112 His play consistent with his character off of the field as well. 00:09:23.112 --> 00:09:25.662 So when people meet him, when brand sponsors meet him, they don't, they 00:09:25.662 --> 00:09:28.602 don't know football jargon, they don't care about it, but they meet him. 00:09:28.602 --> 00:09:31.122 They're like, okay man, this is a guy I want to do business with. 00:09:31.302 --> 00:09:35.592 And so those are a few of the ways you can capture that value, not just on the 00:09:35.592 --> 00:09:37.392 field, but also off the field as well. 00:09:38.142 --> 00:09:38.742 Riccardo Stewart: I love it. 00:09:38.742 --> 00:09:40.032 I love it Athlete. 00:09:40.032 --> 00:09:40.482 CEO. 00:09:41.262 --> 00:09:43.272 Jeff Locke: Rick, I got one question for Zach and Sam real 00:09:43.332 --> 00:09:43.872 Riccardo Stewart: let's get it. 00:09:43.872 --> 00:09:44.262 Let's get 00:09:44.502 --> 00:09:47.112 Jeff Locke: So Zach and Sam, I know both of you well, like you guys 00:09:47.112 --> 00:09:50.442 were on the N-F-L-P-A committee when you guys were players, right? 00:09:50.442 --> 00:09:51.612 You were helping out players. 00:09:51.732 --> 00:09:55.842 You were both involved or around the last CBA negotiations. 00:09:55.902 --> 00:09:59.982 So like I talked about the guaranteed money and how it pisses me off, like all 00:09:59.982 --> 00:10:03.282 these other league get the guarantees, like why is the NFL that way where 00:10:03.522 --> 00:10:07.182 it's not like the MBA or the MLB. 00:10:07.872 --> 00:10:09.402 Sam Acho: Yeah, well, I'll go first on this one. 00:10:09.702 --> 00:10:11.022 I'll, I'll answer this one. 00:10:11.262 --> 00:10:14.982 So I was a part of the last CBA negotiations back in 2018. 00:10:14.982 --> 00:10:20.502 I got voted by the players as not just a, a, a member of the, the Chicago Bears 00:10:20.502 --> 00:10:23.502 Player representative, but I was on the executive committee, vice president of the 00:10:23.502 --> 00:10:28.362 N-F-L-P-A, me and about nine other players were in the negotiations with the owners. 00:10:28.362 --> 00:10:29.472 That's Jerry Jones. 00:10:29.682 --> 00:10:31.602 That's, that's Roger Goodell. 00:10:31.602 --> 00:10:34.062 He was helping lead the charge for the ownership as well. 00:10:34.362 --> 00:10:37.452 Uh, Clark Hunt, et cetera, negotiating the CBA. 00:10:37.452 --> 00:10:40.062 And it's interesting, as a player, you think, okay, I got a contract. 00:10:40.062 --> 00:10:40.392 I'm good. 00:10:40.392 --> 00:10:41.862 I'm happy, I'm, I'm, I'm getting paid. 00:10:42.372 --> 00:10:46.302 But when ownership looks at you and your contract, they view it as what 00:10:46.302 --> 00:10:47.922 they call a player cost. 00:10:48.522 --> 00:10:49.812 It's not like, Hey, we're getting this guy. 00:10:49.812 --> 00:10:52.272 It's like, no, this is how much it's going to cost us in 00:10:52.272 --> 00:10:52.542 order? 00:10:52.572 --> 00:10:54.402 to, to, um. 00:10:55.137 --> 00:10:59.337 Have our teams, not just one team, but our teams and this league run properly. 00:10:59.787 --> 00:11:02.457 And so when ownership's looking at guaranteed money, that's one. 00:11:02.517 --> 00:11:04.677 One of the things that we talked about, Aaron Rogers was in those 00:11:04.677 --> 00:11:08.097 conversations as well about how do we get fully guaranteed contracts. 00:11:08.097 --> 00:11:11.847 The ownership was not about having players get fully guaranteed contracts. 00:11:11.877 --> 00:11:14.397 'cause they were thinking, man, if we do this, the player costs 00:11:14.397 --> 00:11:16.917 are going to rise to a level they wouldn't be able to maintain. 00:11:16.917 --> 00:11:20.277 And so that's one area to remember as a player, owners are 00:11:20.277 --> 00:11:21.147 trying to give you the money. 00:11:21.147 --> 00:11:23.757 They're thinking, Hey, how do we keep the player cost down? 00:11:24.317 --> 00:11:27.587 Zach Miller: And I'll say, I, I heard one story from Jeff Saturday who was 00:11:27.587 --> 00:11:29.867 part of those negotiations in 2011. 00:11:30.467 --> 00:11:34.817 Um, he said Jerry Jones basically called the players cattle, um, just a 00:11:34.817 --> 00:11:37.847 cost for the NFL to run its business. 00:11:37.937 --> 00:11:42.137 And that they didn't believe that NFL players, if they had guaranteed 00:11:42.137 --> 00:11:45.107 contracts, would go there out there and lay it on the line. 00:11:45.617 --> 00:11:50.027 And I mean, that's, that's how the view has been from 00:11:50.027 --> 00:11:51.527 ownership for the longest time. 00:11:51.527 --> 00:11:53.207 And it'll continue to stay that way. 00:11:53.707 --> 00:11:55.897 Um, I, that's why the N-F-L-P-A exists. 00:11:56.747 --> 00:11:59.837 Sam Acho: And, and I'm not, I mean, I'm not at liberty to go into depth 00:11:59.837 --> 00:12:03.647 of what was said in the meetings that I was in, but I will say this, Zach 00:12:03.647 --> 00:12:07.127 Miller is, you're not too far off from what we heard in those meetings 00:12:07.457 --> 00:12:09.887 from individuals like Jerry Jones. 00:12:10.247 --> 00:12:13.067 So just know that as much like certain people, I get it. 00:12:13.067 --> 00:12:13.337 Yeah. 00:12:13.337 --> 00:12:16.097 The owners and the gm, like, you know, they're your friends as 00:12:16.097 --> 00:12:16.997 you, as long as you're producing. 00:12:17.552 --> 00:12:20.222 Right, but we talked about the back half of Brock Purdy's contract. 00:12:20.432 --> 00:12:24.512 After that a hundred million is spent a year in, two years in or three years in. 00:12:24.512 --> 00:12:27.422 And if Brock Purdy isn't producing, I don't care if you're a friend 00:12:27.422 --> 00:12:30.422 or not, it's a, they're, they're running it as a business and they're 00:12:30.422 --> 00:12:33.872 going to move on from that player cost unless you continue to perform. 00:12:33.872 --> 00:12:35.972 And so we always talk about betting on yourself. 00:12:36.182 --> 00:12:37.292 That's what Brock Purdy's doing. 00:12:37.292 --> 00:12:38.942 He's betting on himself. 00:12:39.557 --> 00:12:42.497 Riccardo Stewart: I love that Jeff, uh, Jeff, first of all, that was a phenomenal 00:12:42.497 --> 00:12:46.277 question and a great way for us to be able to land the plane because it is, it's the 00:12:46.277 --> 00:12:50.957 business of you and what does it look like when it merges into the bigs of the nfl, 00:12:50.987 --> 00:12:55.067 Zach, Sam, that was incredible insight, and you gotta understand, like a business 00:12:55.067 --> 00:12:58.847 owner, you gotta be savvy and know what it is, what rooms, what buildings. 00:12:59.417 --> 00:13:03.767 Are you walking into when it comes to you bringing yourself, and that is important. 00:13:04.487 --> 00:13:09.107 We've talked about how to create this value and now it's captured. 00:13:09.167 --> 00:13:11.747 Think about it in the business capturing it and the contracts, 00:13:11.747 --> 00:13:13.517 that's like the revenue of a business. 00:13:13.787 --> 00:13:15.497 What we wanna talk about Nexus, what's the prop? 00:13:15.497 --> 00:13:19.277 What's the profit like after tax dollars in my pocket? 00:13:19.787 --> 00:13:25.637 And how do those particular dollars begin to fuel this life that I have envisioned 00:13:25.637 --> 00:13:28.307 for myself and my future family? 00:13:28.757 --> 00:13:32.957 And so any questions you guys have about what you heard in this episode, um, any 00:13:32.957 --> 00:13:34.817 thoughts, we'd love to hear from you. 00:13:34.997 --> 00:13:36.287 You can shoot us a text. 00:13:36.347 --> 00:13:40.457 Our number 6 0 2 9 8 9 5 0 2 2.