Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who
see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care.
I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.
I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people.
So come and join us for today's conversation.
Anke: Hello and welcome, Diane.
I'm very excited to have you here.
Diane: Thank you for having me.
I'm very excited to be here and, uh, I know we have a lot to discuss.
Anke: I certainly believe we do.
So, before we dive in, let people know.
So where in this lovely world are you and what's your business with dogs?
Diane: Well, I am located in Langley, Washington, um, on beautiful Whidbey
Island, which I call Paradise.
Um, and I.
What I have to do with dogs is that I actually am really focused on
stress as my research, but I deal have dealt with behavior problems
for years and years and years.
Uh, all sorts of dogs, all sorts of breeds.
Um, actually starting when I was 18 years old with di Diane's dog
obedience school, and it's all evolved.
To 1996 when Kieran Pryor came out with, um, clicker and then, you know,
positive training took, um, off.
And I was all on board for that because I hated what I was seeing
with dogs being hurt and their wellbeing not being considered at all.
And my dad actually was an aversive trainer and he had a, um, a kennel and he
trained Schutz Hound in canine military.
Um, so I watched that rollout and was not always pleased with that.
And so that led me to my own business, um, that I went into full-time working just
with behavior problems after my career.
And it's been, I've been in this business for 25 years now.
Canine transformations, learning center.
What I see are a lot of stress dogs because they have to acclimate to our
human life, and that's not always what we think it might be because we don't
speak the dog's language most of the time.
And that's really how it rolled out because I've been really working with
dogs since I was in fourth grade.
A reactive dog, and that got me interested in reactivity and behavior problems.
Anke: Wow.
So many questions.
So, wow.
Uh, so I mean,
so you've seen.
This world evolve over the last few decades.
Really?
Yeah.
So what's, what's the biggest change you've observed in,
you know, I, I, I don't know.
I would imagine dogs are more stressed today than they were maybe 30 years ago.
Is that true?
Or what changes have you seen
Diane: when you talk about change and dec and decades?
I used to take my cocker spaniel off lead, riding my bike into town.
Never thought anything about it.
Never, you know, had to worry about what she would be doing.
Um, and she was reactive and she would just follow me and listen
to me when I was kind to her.
Mm-hmm.
Um.
So the biggest change that I'm, I'm seeing is that, you know, we're, we're
adding all this equipment and maybe dogs are getting frustrated and over aroused,
and that's why we're seeing a lot of what we call reactivity and aggression.
Um, because a dog is speaking to us and telling them some, telling us that
something is missing in their lives.
And, um, we want to, you know.
Have them comply to what we want them to do.
And that can be aversive or it can be positive.
It's your choice which road you're going to take because positive is better.
And I can tell you, I've seen so many dogs that, that were trained
that just look like robots.
And, um, I don't like seeing that robotic effect from a dog that just tell me what
to do, you know, and then I'll do it.
I like to see that joyful dog coming out, and I think that's what we're seeing
and that is not sitting well with a lot of people who don't know anything else
other than I have to do the obedience.
I have to make my dog mind.
Well, no, it's taking a turn and the pendulum is swinging the other way.
Anke: Hmm.
So when, let's, let's just clarify the terminology.
'cause I have a sense that sometimes reactivity, different
people understand different things.
Yes.
How, how would you, what, like, when you say reactive, what does
Diane: that look like?
It looks like, um, things that are in the environment that the dog
might react to, like sounds or, um.
Cars, vehicles, uh, service people, um, just so that they become maybe
over aroused, um, and frustrated that they can't get to that dog.
There's of course, a dog or they see a cat or a cow, and they just become reactive.
So we have to be careful of the, of the terminology.
You're very right in saying on what we use, because we have to understand that.
Why our dog is reactive, what in the environment is causing that?
Um, too many distractions can lead to that reactivity, whereas aggression is scarier.
Anke: Are they, are they related or is coming?
Is one the logical consequence of the other?
Not necessarily.
Right.
Diane: Can be.
I think reactivity that turns to aggression is a higher level of
reactivity where you are dealing with stress that has become acute or chronic.
And uh, the difference is chronic acute stress spikes and
then takes days to come down.
But it does come down.
Chronic stress spikes and never comes down.
And that's where you have your health problems, your aggression, the dog is just
responding negatively to the environment.
So that's reactivity out of control.
Anke: Do, do you think there's more of that now than there used to be?
Diane: Oh, that's a good question.
Um, I think we hear about it more now.
Mm-hmm.
Diane: And.
Was there, was it, was it there before?
Uh, probably, but we were dealing with dogs differently.
Um.
Than, and than today.
And like I said, we're, we're applying all this equipment.
We're not letting the dog adjust to certain things and we're letting them
become frustrated and over aroused.
And I, I've seen that in my German Shepherd puppy who had four owners
before me by four months old.
And so I was dealing with a puppy that over aroused easily,
and when he became over aroused, he redirected his aggression.
So that's when we're talking about he's reacting, he's becoming over aroused
and he becomes highly frustrated and then he redirects regression, right?
Mm-hmm.
Then it becomes.
He is biting me.
He ripped my coat, you know, and all kinds of things.
He doesn't do that anymore.
I'm thinking, you know, this puppy is gonna grow into an 85, 9500 pound dog.
I can't have this dog doing that at that, at that weight and that age.
So, and he doesn't anymore.
Um, but, but I asked myself why he was doing this.
And with four owners, you know, there's reasons why.
Anke: I mean,
Diane: I
Anke: thought maybe because like a lot of people live in apartments now where,
you know, like this is part of my story with these ones here, those fur, you
know, I used to live in a historic part of, of town in South Spain and
I didn't even realize until I had Mr.
Hypersensitive like very sensitive and he was like kind of like literally
sort of on edge the entire time.
You know, and because, and I realized when we were away, that's when I realized like,
oh my God, he's a totally different dog.
Like he's on information overload the entire time.
Mm-hmm.
And I moved twice so that he'd have a calmer life.
Right.
So it's, I mean, there's definitely seems to be the environment, you know?
And people, I think when, I mean, I look at my grandparents, like nobody
in an apartment in the middle of town would've even thought of getting a dog.
Like a dog needs space.
Like now we are sort of different.
And I'm also very curious what you, you know, from what you did
with your, with, with your, with your, uh, German Shepherd puppy.
Like, somebody might, might go and like, oh God, I have a dog like that.
So,
Diane: and they get, how
Anke: can I help them chill out or relax more?
Yeah,
Diane: they do get put down, but I've dealt with dogs like this.
That's my whole career, you know.
Um, I.
Uh, very dogs with a lot of behavior problems and anxiety and stress.
Um, and so when you're dealing with something like that, um, you have to
know what you're doing, you know, and the, the normal companion dog owner.
Uh, doesn't, and they become afraid because they take it personally that
the dog is attacking them, right?
When they're really not.
They're trying to talk to you and say, something's not right here, and
I don't feel good in this situation.
Um, I feel closed in.
So the first thing I taught him to do was to touch target, touch.
Instead of grab, bite pull.
So, so that was a process.
Um, but now he'll give me a bump, you know, like a nose bump instead
of the teeth don't come out.
We're not ripping jackets, we're not doing anything.
He's 17 months old and he is becoming a wonderful, wonderful family member and.
It is a step-by-step process, and so that's what I do.
My, one of my other specialties is resource guarding and
multi dog households fighting.
Um, I tend to like those cases and I, I love dealing with
dogs that can't deal with life.
Very much like a mental health professional or, you
know, dealing with trauma.
Um, there are several trainers that do that, and I happen to be one of them.
And I, I love that because I understand what they're trying to say.
I think we don't listen enough to our dogs, so, um, that's important.
Anke: Oh, I agree.
I agree.
So, I mean, is there.
Are there sort of certain things that you see over and over that
people misinterpret or overlook?
Diane: Um, yes.
Um, there's so many things.
I mean, it depends on what you're looking at and what behavior you're looking at.
So if you wanna pick a behavior,
Anke: well, let's just take an example.
Let's just take a real life example.
Good friend of mine, uh.
Well, she just was just recovering from a hand injury because she
has, um, an English Bull terrier.
He is a bit over two years old, a little bit deaf on one ear, so I
think that probably doesn't help.
So he gets, I've seen him on Zoom calls, like it's a big chunky boy and he gets
overexcited and when he doesn't wanna.
Go home.
Home, he gets snippy.
And so now, apparently lately he started to go after joggers or piece people on
a bicycle and actually nips and ankles.
Mm-hmm.
So that's how she actually ended up with, because she saw somebody in the distance.
She said, oh my god, I thought he might go off and bite them in the Anke.
So she grabbed the collar and he did a little twist.
So that's how that happened.
Right.
So, but that kind of, so he's obviously over like.
Gets aroused and then, you know, he's got a big mouth, so he's bitten
her in the, you know, nipped her.
Like, not like bitten, bitten, but like when he kind of doesn't
want to go home, he'll go.
And so he is nipped her.
She's had bruises in her belly and on her hands and, and he's nipped other
people in the, in the, in the ankles.
Diane: Yeah, that's a real situation, um, that you have to really dial it back
because he is becoming over aroused.
Um, and he sounds like a smart boy because a lot of times with
frustration and over arousal, these dogs are wicked smart and they know
what they want and what they want to do, so she just has to dial it back.
She has to go backwards back to kindergarten and start retraining this.
And not take these long walks that she's taking.
And I hear it all the time.
Well, that's my sanity.
I have to take the walk.
Well, you take the walk, leave the dog.
Anke: I think she, she does these long walks because she says he needs
it to, to kind of get his energy out.
I don't think so.
Diane: No, I don't think so either.
Take shorter walks and avoid that arousal level.
Teach him.
That it's fun to go back home.
Mm-hmm.
Diane: Okay.
So that, let's say I, I like to call it, some people call it spider, um, walks.
I call it A to A to B2C, you know, A to Z walk.
So I go point A to B and I walk that 10 times back and forth.
Then that's our walk.
We're done.
We don't go to the park and walk for miles and miles and miles because
this dog is not ready to do that.
Um, we wanted to stay below the arousal levels.
Um, maybe rent a sniff spot.
I don't know if they have them in the United Kingdom, but we have sniff spots
here where people rent out places for reactive dogs, aggressive dogs that
they can go and run their heart out.
Without worrying about any other dogs or any other people around,
find places where this dog can get its arousal out in frustration.
It doesn't have to be a leash walk.
Um, some enclosed area that might be different, you know, um, ex
experience and environment for the dog.
Um, very important.
So she just needs to dial it back, teach him what else to do.
Instead of arousing at what he's seeing.
And believe me, um, I've been there, done that thousands of
times, and so it does work.
You have to be diligent about it, and you have to understand that you
don't have to drag the dog wherever you go because you're just teaching
him to accelerate that behavior.
Instead of learning what else he can do with that behavior.
Anke: Mm.
Yeah, I mean, I've seen, I've seen him like at Zoom meetings when he is
like, and next thing she goes like, oh my God, he's eating the blanket.
So, so he's very much, you know, I kinda also knows when, like
how to demand her attention.
Right.
So she's on the Zoom call and he's sort of supposedly sitting there quietly and, and
then he, he gets stuck into the blanket.
Yeah,
Diane: he is got a, a demanding personality, obviously.
Um, she probably should do a stress release process with him and make
sure that he's getting enough rest.
Um, it sounds like he's getting over aroused at a lot of different things.
And so, and she needs to calm down and dial back a little bit, um, and
not res, not respond to those things that he's really doing because we
want to, we want to respond to that.
I walk away and
then when he stops Stew, what he is doing, I say, good boy, and then I
can reward what else I want him to do, and then we can practice that because
I want him to be in a frame of mind.
That makes the retention of what I'm teaching stick otherwise it.
So, um, yeah, and that's a whole, that's a whole pro, a whole process.
So a systematic process that she should be going through, she.
She has to know where to start and what to do next, and what to do
next, and what to do next, you know?
Anke: Mm-hmm.
And I can see how the, how the walk is actually the hardest piece because
you know, when, you know in the house, you know, like you can go and, and
like my big girl here, little Mrs.
Polar bear, Spanish Ma when she was sort of adolescent, she got her
moments when she would, you know, and so when I do like, I don't know,
I just kind of walk away and yeah.
And then she'd go like, alright then.
And it was quite easy.
But, but if you are outside, right?
If she's kind of, if she was, and she's always been good outside, but
like I'm imagining if she was to go.
For like to kind of go up and jump up on other people, it's like,
yeah, I can't just walk away.
Right.
I have, you know, like I have to do something.
So it's almost like I have to make sure I don't put her in that situation exactly
where I have to then like literally like, you know, drag her, drag her
away, or have to give her the attention.
I don't really wanna give her there.
There's a
Diane: lot more that has to happen before that.
And I was referring to in the house.
Mm-hmm.
Diane: Only.
Don't walk away from big problems.
Um, you are just running damage control when an arou arousal like that occurs.
So you have to know where to be in the process to avoid arousal.
You see what I mean?
Yeah.
You have to stay on the other side of arousal so that you get the normal
stress spikes that come right back down.
It's okay to be stressed.
It's normal.
But they need, the spikes need to come back down and the dog
has to feel more comfortable.
Um, so some dogs are just over aroused, just thinking about going for a walk.
So you would just walk from your door to the end of your property and back and
forth 20 times, and that is your walk.
And if he can handle it, then you can add another point.
Then you can walk back and forth and then you add another point and so
on until you're up to two mile walk with no arousal and no frustration.
Um, this dog that you're talking about really does need a stress release program.
And so in my book there is a systematic pathway and it teaches the dog to.
Be on the prop, we'd get him on the proper nutrition and you're checking for
health issues to make sure that that's not a, you know, what's causing this?
Is he in pain?
A lot of dogs who are over arousing, they're in pain.
Mm-hmm.
Diane: Um, and so why is he grabbing the leash to keep going
on the walk or just to keep moving?
Or is he feeling some pain?
But beyond that, then you want to address sensory.
Using a dog's senses at home and toy plate because there's a lot of different things
you can do to exercise that dog without actually taking this walk until he's
ready, until you can manage his arousal points or not even see them at all because
they will diminish and then go away.
Um.
He has to learn to relax.
That's very important.
A lot of people don't understand that their dogs need to relax.
They need to sleep deeply and deep.
REM during the day, uh, depending on the dog's age, 1 1 2 times for adult dogs and
up to four times for puppies and seniors.
Um, so.
So it varies and they need their rest.
Um, and then the physical stimulation can be something like, um, Sarah Fisher's ace,
you know, um, or Mari's movement puzzles.
And there's so many things out there that you can do with your dog that
doesn't require, uh, over arousal, but it actually brings the arousal down.
They still are getting satisfied for the physical movement,
using their senses, all of it.
And one thing that we fail at is teaching our dogs problem solving.
That's very rare that I'll, I'll, I'll say, what do you do to
teach your dog to problem solve?
Nobody is, you know, eyes roll back in the head and nobody knows what's going on.
What is she's talking about?
So where would somebody start?
Yeah, lemme think, what do I do?
So that is something like the games in, in, in, that I discussed in my book, like,
um, the colored eggs and picking Yellow.
That's where the food will be.
Or clicking when the dog touches their nose to yellow and then giving the treat
that becomes more complicated, right?
So they have to solve the problem.
So if you have six eggs of different colors, they should always be going to the
yellow, or they should pick the smaller size, or they should find a, uh, that a
connection exercise where a treat is on.
A cloth and they have to connect and underneath like a laundry basket,
let's say, and they have to connect that the treat is on the cloth and
they have to pull the cloth out.
That can be difficult for some dogs and very difficult if the dog hasn't
been used to problem solving at all.
Um, in my classes for coming when called, we put up a maze and the person goes
out of sight and calls their dog, and the dog has to figure out how to get
to the person that's problem solving.
These
Diane: dogs are being mentally tired.
It's not just the physical fitness and the physically tiring, there's mental tiring
as well, and it's very good exercise.
Even for performance dogs, the performance dogs are getting that mental stimulation,
uh, so that they mentally tire.
But they're also getting the physical stimulation that comes along with that.
And they have a job, they have a purpose, and that's really important, I think.
Anke: Mm, yeah.
I love that.
And it's actually really interesting because I never
realized how how much sniffing and things like that tires them out.
Diane: So, oh my God.
Now my temper does nose work.
And, um, if we're not going on a walk that day, I'll do like several exercises
of nose work and he is tired for the day.
Or if, you know, um, that's so important.
Using all of the senses.
That's what our dogs really need to do because that's how they live,
that's how they work with life.
That's who they are.
And we try to make them who we are.
Anke: Yeah.
Yeah.
I like, it's, it's really interesting 'cause I've got these, these two
big girls now, and I started to attach like another long, like I've
got this really long leash now.
So they have a lot of, and I'm just like the, the leash juggler kind of thing
to make sure it doesn't tangle Right.
But it's really funny because they both now have a lot of roaming space.
Yeah.
It's hilarious.
Like we don't actually go further than we used to before.
Mm-hmm.
So it's kind of, you know, we have a bunch of different walks and, but
like with that really long leash, they both get more time to sniff where
they wanna sniff until they are done.
Yes.
'cause
Anke: if you have a shorter leash, somebody's always ready to move
on and they have to just move on.
Right.
So now with that really long leash, it's like they can just.
Stay back at SNF and they will always pick up by themselves
before the end of the leash.
So they really both get more time to, and it's hilarious.
I really notice the difference.
I come home and they're wiped out.
Yeah.
Like so much more than they used to.
It's really, really powerful.
Diane: Yeah, it, it is.
And I do the same thing.
I'm, and I get very good at juggling the long leash.
A lot of people aren't good at that, and so they think the flexi leash is
the, you know, the solution to that.
But I like to see my dogs run out.
The only thing you might get tangled up, you know, around a tree or something,
but then you just maneuver that.
And um, and like you said, the dog always knows.
Keeps walking with you because they know, um, that they have freedom.
Anke: Yeah.
Diane: I, I love, it's so much enjoyable for all of us.
Like,
Anke: yeah.
Diane: If they can't be off leashing somewhere, then at least we can do a
long line and then we can influence their behavior through the long line as well.
If.
If your dog is reactive and another dog or person shows up or something
shows up in the environment, but they should be able to do that unhindered.
Um, if they don't like other dogs, they still need to use their senses.
They don't have to be with other dogs constantly, right?
Yeah.
Um, but they sh they should be having that mental stimulation
that they need and require.
For wellbeing.
Just for, for being a dog.
Anke: Yeah.
Yeah.
So I would love you to, to just kind of like, can you just put your book up
again, you know, so people get, will obviously put the link to the book in
the, in the show notes and below here.
So
Diane: behind me.
Yeah.
But um, yeah, this is the book and it goes through all of the stages actually
the, um, diagram that I just showed you.
Um.
Is really what the book's all about.
It's the first systematic process to release stress in dogs.
Hmm.
And it took me a long time to develop it where it, it works
over a three day period, and then the rest of the book tells why.
Okay.
Tell tells why it works and how it worked.
Wow.
Yeah, that's quick examples, you know.
But if you follow that particular circular pathway, um, in the order
that it's written, and it works like a charm because a dog is getting that
sleep, they're getting sensory, they're playing with their toys, they're
getting the physical stimulation and exercise and problem solving that
they need, um, as well as nutrition.
Health benefits, um, and um, it teaches the person to check waste,
for example, or even pH urine.
Um, simple things that we can do to make sure that our dogs are in
good physical health and that is an interfering with their behavior.
Anke: Yeah, that makes, that makes so much sense.
So we'll definitely pop the link.
I'm sort of, now you know where my mind's going.
I'm just like.
I, I, I bet it's probably not that different from what we do to, to
Diane: release stress.
Right?
It, it is very similar.
Similar, we can do, uh, more things than dogs can, and the difference is
that we can implement it for ourselves.
The dogs don't know how to implement it.
They're just responding in the moment or what they were taught
and what they, what they know.
Anke: Yeah.
That makes sense.
Diane: Yeah, but, but the, but it can be very similar for people.
We do yoga, we relax, take a nap.
We, you know.
We run, we jog, we, yeah.
We need things too, and we need to read books and work and yeah.
All of that to release stress.
Yeah.
Anke: Yeah.
It's funny because when you think about like, yeah, we both get stressed
and there's so many things we, we are so similar in so many ways, right?
Diane: Mm-hmm.
Yes.
We are very much, I mean, we breathe, we.
Feel things, you, uh, feel touch and
mm-hmm.
You
Diane: know, all of the senses are activated.
Um, there are certain things that are different, like the digestive, um, the
intestines are, are shorter than ours and, you know, so on and so forth.
They don't have a good.
Frontal lobe as we do.
So that's why they're not planning for retirement and sitting the table and
paying mortgage and things like that.
But they have their own little world, don't they?
Yeah.
And we have to understand that because we don't always listen to our dogs.
Hmm.
Body
Diane: language is so important and they talk with their eyes and their
nose and their barks and they can.
Think your thoughts before you think that, or while you're thinking them.
At least my Shepherd and my Belgian and my Aussie, can they kind of know me too well.
Anke: Yeah, no, totally.
Same here.
It's like I've made experiments out of this, you know?
Especially this one, like he passed last April.
Like he was extreme, you know, Mr.
Sensitive was so extreme, he would.
First of all, like he would always know when I come home, like, well
before it would be reasonable to think that he could hear it, you know?
Yeah.
So like that.
And sometimes, like I'd be sitting there and thinking, okay, I'm gonna,
you know, do this, and then I'm going out for a walk and he'd be
like, what, what, what we going for?
And it was like.
I know for sure I've not moved, right?
Because if I grab my, the bag or if I put the shoes on or what, you know, some sign,
then you'd be like, yeah, that's obvious.
But literally I would make a point of not moving and it's like.
He knew like the moment I thought the thought or sometimes just before he knew,
and the other two kind of know it as well.
But like he was quite extreme.
Diane: He still knew.
He is very, he is, they're very intuitive, um, in that way and that's why it scares
me that people use, uh, pain to train.
Because you don't know what you're dealing with internally.
Uh, a dog is not coping properly and you're just adding more pain to pain.
That makes no sense, you know?
Um, so really being, listening to the dog, what they need, having a system in
place so that you know what you're doing.
Um, when I'm training clients, I always have a system in
place that they must follow.
Um, and, and then they will, they get to where they're going quite quickly.
If they start with stress release, I don't have as many lessons to do with them
because the dog is in a learning state.
I used to do 15 sessions before the development of the stress release
program, but now if I do a stress release program, you're talking three
to six, maybe it cuts it in half.
Um, for behavioral problems and, and then it's just maintenance
and management, right?
And being intuitive to the three Ds, which are distance, duration, and distractions.
Um, which we always, we always should be anyway.
Even with my, my normal dogs, I am always.
Paying attention to those things because there might be things
that they're not comfortable with.
Also.
I can't assume that they're perfect 'cause there's no perfect dog.
Just like there's no perfect person except you.
Anke: You not me on a lead,
Diane: you know?
Anke: But it's, I mean, I think it's that listening, I mean.
The starting point is even like slowing down and paying attention
to the dog in front of you, right?
I think it's so often it's like, oh, the dog needs to do this and sits and
plugs and, and, um, you know, and, and that's, that's all there is to it.
And nobody asks, like, if the dog's barking, if the dog's
anxious, like, what's going on?
You know,
Diane: people are so obsessed with making the dog do what they
want them to do, that they, they sacrifice learning who that dog is.
We do it with people too, you know, um, you're trying to think
of your next sentence before the person has even stopped.
Stopped talking.
Yeah.
Diane: And, and you're not paying attention to the person and really
what they're trying to relate to you.
Um, and that's so very important when you're dealing with people as well.
For sure.
Anke: I always say our dogs are our wisest teacher, so like, you know, anything we
learn there, we can take anywhere else in life and it'll be, it'll be valuable.
Right.
Diane: For sure.
Anke: Yeah.
Diane: Lots of science.
So where
Anke: can, yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
So where can people go find out, get, I mean get the book, find
out more about you, work with you, where's the best place to find you?
Diane: Um, the book is available and most places where books.
Can be found like Amazon and, and I like to send people to book baby.com
and to the bookstore.
And then all they have to do is look up the title or put my name
in and, um, buy from there, there.
Uh, and often I'm having coupons for reduction in pricing, uh, at times.
So.
For them to watch for that type of thing.
Um, and then you can contact me and, and I'm very open to answering questions,
um, all the time at info@k9tlc.com.
And or, uh, my regular email is my last name, garrett@Whidbey.com.
W-H-I-D-B-E y.com.
Um, either way.
And then I have, uh, a Facebook business page, which is facebook.com/c
TL C3,
and.
A lot of followers.
A lot, lot, lot going on in there.
And then I, if you would like to join the Canine Trans, um, canine, uh, stress
release, uh, de the detox, uh, program.
I have a group for that as well.
It's just called the Canine Emotional Detox, so you can join that on Facebook.
I have force free trainers, um, dealing with aggression.
Uh, that's on Facebook as well.
And, um,
my website, oh, I just, and my website.
So there's a contact form in my website and that is kine tlc.com.
Anke: Awesome.
Awesome.
Well thank you so much.
Easy to find you and I highly recommend get the book and get check her out.
Thank you so much for coming.
I think you are right.
We could talk dogs all day long and we'll, we'll find another
opportunity to talk more.
Diane: Okay.
And I just wanna mention one thing if I can before we Absolutely.
I'm doing a second edition of the book, which will be, uh, more in depth and
cover all of those pieces more thoroughly.
And also my resource guarding, um, 60 days from guarding to sharing
will is done and will be out hopefully by the end of the year.
So, um, lots of things to look forward
Anke: to.
Awesome, awesome.
We're gonna have to have you back for that.
So, for, so.
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
Okay.
Thank you.
I.
Thanks so much for listening.
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That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.