WEBVTT 00:00:05.057 --> 00:00:10.237 Welcome to the Uncut Podcast. I'm Pastor Luke. 00:00:10.557 --> 00:00:14.637 And I'm Pastor Cameron. And this is the Uncut Podcast, where we have uncut, 00:00:14.857 --> 00:00:19.117 honest conversations about faith, life, and ministry. 00:00:20.217 --> 00:00:26.557 Today, we're sitting down to talk and record the episode a little bit earlier than we normally do. 00:00:26.897 --> 00:00:32.077 Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Hope you had a great holiday. Yeah So we're all 00:00:32.077 --> 00:00:33.377 bright-eyed and bushy-tailed here. 00:00:34.397 --> 00:00:40.337 We are And we're getting ready to dive into it. So Cameron, why don't you kick us off? 00:00:40.717 --> 00:00:44.577 Well, you had sent me a real I did I send you a lot of reels. 00:00:44.697 --> 00:00:48.377 We send each other a lot of reels And you know what? 00:00:49.377 --> 00:00:51.817 Like before we get into what we're actually gonna talk about. 00:00:52.597 --> 00:00:58.617 I I love the type of friendships where there's no pressure to respond to the 00:00:58.617 --> 00:01:01.097 reels that we send each other. Just communicate via reels. 00:01:01.817 --> 00:01:06.677 Just send them via, because I have like three friends. 00:01:06.797 --> 00:01:08.277 You're one of three friends that 00:01:08.277 --> 00:01:12.777 I communicate with on Instagram primarily through just sending reels to. 00:01:13.257 --> 00:01:16.457 And there's no pressure. And I really like that. 00:01:17.417 --> 00:01:23.477 So you sent me a reel. I sent you a real and you actually like commented on 00:01:23.477 --> 00:01:27.397 it when you sent it and then I commented back which is rare. Yes. 00:01:30.057 --> 00:01:37.197 And this was a real by I think it was the charismatic Calvinist. 00:01:37.697 --> 00:01:41.257 Maybe I didn't even pay that much attention. I just saw it and I was like we 00:01:41.257 --> 00:01:44.517 got to talk about Yeah, it's a Instagram handle, 00:01:44.697 --> 00:01:53.277 you know, talking head type of guy and his main thesis behind or the main point 00:01:53.277 --> 00:01:54.917 that he was going to make is that. 00:01:58.387 --> 00:02:05.367 Gluttony and obesity is the biggest sin that Christians don't talk about. 00:02:08.007 --> 00:02:17.047 And one of the most empirically identifiable sins that a person can struggle 00:02:17.047 --> 00:02:20.527 with but that you don't talk about. 00:02:21.287 --> 00:02:27.447 So, and then he makes some assertions about, He brings in like the parable of 00:02:27.447 --> 00:02:29.047 the talents being an issue. 00:02:30.087 --> 00:02:36.927 We'll link the reel in the show notes here. But how about how the parable that 00:02:36.927 --> 00:02:40.347 Jesus taught, the parable of the talents, about what you have, 00:02:40.667 --> 00:02:44.867 like what's Jesus gonna say about the things that he's entrusted you to and how you treat them? 00:02:45.207 --> 00:02:47.227 Okay, well there's some context issues there. 00:02:48.867 --> 00:02:54.107 And then he says something akin to you know, outside of your salvation, 00:02:54.427 --> 00:03:02.147 your physical body is the greatest gift that God has given to you, which is interesting. 00:03:02.637 --> 00:03:05.547 I have some thoughts to say about that as well. 00:03:07.007 --> 00:03:13.747 But I think, despite the things that he actually says is the idea, 00:03:15.207 --> 00:03:17.247 the general ideas around it. 00:03:19.847 --> 00:03:25.807 Some questions that I would want to talk about is, one, is obesity? 00:03:27.397 --> 00:03:33.377 A sin? Okay. Is obesity a sin? 00:03:33.737 --> 00:03:36.137 Yeah. Two. 00:03:39.197 --> 00:03:42.477 Maybe some talk around the theology of the body. 00:03:44.117 --> 00:03:54.037 And three, what do we do with conversations like this where like portions of 00:03:54.037 --> 00:03:58.997 it I'm like, yeah, okay, I think I agree with that, But then like, 00:03:59.777 --> 00:04:06.897 conclusions that are made off of false premises, are they false conclusions? 00:04:08.577 --> 00:04:15.277 So if the argument, if he uses arguments that are out of context to get to a 00:04:15.277 --> 00:04:19.417 conclusion, does the conclusion remain the same? Yes, yeah, right. 00:04:19.817 --> 00:04:23.777 Okay, so yeah, let's tackle it in that order then. 00:04:23.937 --> 00:04:30.537 Let's tackle the big question, sin, is obesity a sin, what was the second part 00:04:30.537 --> 00:04:31.617 of the theology of the body? 00:04:31.897 --> 00:04:35.357 Yeah, just talking about the theology of the body, because when he said, 00:04:35.897 --> 00:04:40.197 you know, your body is the greatest thing outside your salvation that the Lord has given to you. 00:04:41.337 --> 00:04:47.757 I have some thoughts on that. And then, like... 00:04:47.757 --> 00:04:54.517 Can you make a true... Is the conclusion true if the premises upon which you 00:04:54.517 --> 00:04:57.337 make the conclusion are out of context or false? 00:04:57.637 --> 00:05:02.537 Right, yeah, and kind of, and I would addend to that maybe a little bit of medium 00:05:02.537 --> 00:05:06.237 is the message and the tone in which that is. 00:05:06.657 --> 00:05:09.857 Right. That is not how I would talk to somebody. Right. But anyways, 00:05:10.177 --> 00:05:13.077 so yeah, is obesity a sin? 00:05:15.586 --> 00:05:20.086 I actually, I don't, I think gluttony is a sin. 00:05:21.146 --> 00:05:24.166 I don't know that obesity is a sin. 00:05:24.566 --> 00:05:30.126 And I think the, one of the issues that I think perhaps in particularly in his 00:05:30.126 --> 00:05:34.626 application is that he's not making a distinction between the two. 00:05:35.586 --> 00:05:43.246 Right. Yeah, I'd agree. And I guess, and if that's not immediately obvious to 00:05:43.246 --> 00:05:47.286 like, like why I'm saying that, Cameron, why do you agree with that statement? 00:05:47.606 --> 00:05:52.586 What's, what clarity is that bringing? Why, how is gluttony different than obesity? 00:05:53.926 --> 00:06:03.306 Well, obesity, at least in modern day terms, is specific to a person's body, their physical body. 00:06:05.546 --> 00:06:13.286 And there can be many reasons why a person is physically obese. 00:06:15.186 --> 00:06:21.706 And not all of them are because they live a gluttonous lifestyle. 00:06:24.186 --> 00:06:30.606 Gluttony in a more general term is, I guess I don't really, I'm not really sure 00:06:30.606 --> 00:06:34.606 how many people would describe it or even, I don't know that I've ever really 00:06:34.606 --> 00:06:36.226 theologically studied gluttony. 00:06:36.906 --> 00:06:41.786 Very little. It's a really interesting topic, but I didn't get to do a big enough 00:06:41.786 --> 00:06:43.426 deep dive to be an expert on it. 00:06:43.566 --> 00:06:51.126 Right. And so it would be for me, like, I would try to describe gluttony as the sin of excess. Yeah. 00:06:53.026 --> 00:06:54.706 Intentional excess, right? 00:06:57.486 --> 00:07:03.306 So, like, we can experience gluttony as a almost as a form of greed. 00:07:04.106 --> 00:07:06.946 So gluttony financially. Yep. 00:07:10.726 --> 00:07:16.906 Or materially, maybe I should say not financially, but material gluttonous in a material sense. 00:07:17.986 --> 00:07:26.266 But living a life of ungenerous excess. 00:07:28.246 --> 00:07:34.006 Well, like one of the, I think the most visceral examples to talk about gluttony 00:07:34.006 --> 00:07:37.646 and one of the, And it's often talked about with food. 00:07:38.026 --> 00:07:41.666 This is absolutely fascinating. This is going to be our Thanksgiving episode, Cameron. 00:07:43.666 --> 00:07:47.526 Oh, my God, I didn't even think about that. I did not think about it at all. 00:07:48.346 --> 00:07:54.786 But the biblical context, at least the historical biblical context that I learned 00:07:54.786 --> 00:07:56.506 about gluttony was the... 00:07:59.541 --> 00:08:04.521 Kind of the feasts that would happen in the ancient time during the New Testament, 00:08:06.021 --> 00:08:12.501 where people would gather around for these really extravagant banquets, 00:08:12.561 --> 00:08:15.721 and when they would sit down and what they would do is they would eat until they're full, 00:08:16.541 --> 00:08:21.281 they would then go and purge, they'd go vomit up what they've eaten, 00:08:21.421 --> 00:08:25.321 and then they would come back to the table so that they could eat more. 00:08:26.201 --> 00:08:32.161 And so that's at least some of the background of some of the passages, 00:08:32.821 --> 00:08:36.381 particularly where Paul talks about gluttony in the New Testament. 00:08:37.821 --> 00:08:40.541 And that's a pretty... 00:08:43.701 --> 00:08:48.381 That's a pretty good picture of what gluttony is. 00:08:49.661 --> 00:08:54.021 Even though it's applied specifically to food, we can apply it elsewhere. 00:08:55.881 --> 00:09:01.541 It's this... Because there's this almost... You're no longer trying to satisfy 00:09:01.541 --> 00:09:08.301 physical hunger, you're trying to satisfy something deeper with something that 00:09:08.301 --> 00:09:09.621 will never be satisfied. 00:09:11.161 --> 00:09:18.901 And it's that ongoing excess that really, I think, pushes something into gluttony. 00:09:19.561 --> 00:09:28.241 Yeah, I've seen some people describe it as one of the lusts of the flesh, 00:09:31.341 --> 00:09:36.621 and I was doing just a quick... I wanted to try and find a reference. 00:09:36.821 --> 00:09:39.621 I don't have my actual Bible down here, so it was difficult for me, 00:09:40.481 --> 00:09:47.001 but in Proverbs... That's not it. 00:09:51.841 --> 00:09:52.261 Um... 00:09:54.981 --> 00:09:58.261 Man, not having your actual Bible is, like, really throwing you off. 00:09:58.301 --> 00:10:01.741 It makes a difference for me, because I know where everything is in my actual Bible. 00:10:02.001 --> 00:10:07.961 But regardless, you know, I've heard the same types of explanations. 00:10:07.961 --> 00:10:20.101 I've heard the same examples of living in excess and living in a pattern or a state or a spirit of. 00:10:22.455 --> 00:10:23.515 Almost wastefulness. 00:10:25.775 --> 00:10:29.615 And maybe that is, maybe that there's some of that in there too, 00:10:29.795 --> 00:10:32.655 like, because if you use the example that you eating, like someone that will 00:10:32.655 --> 00:10:38.175 binge themselves on food and then purge and then go back and so they can go back and eat more. 00:10:38.815 --> 00:10:43.615 There is a wastefulness there. Yeah, as well. 00:10:44.115 --> 00:10:52.695 There's like, you know, a lot of really rich and famous people. 00:10:54.115 --> 00:11:00.855 There's like even a brand of like YouTube videos where the whole premise of 00:11:00.855 --> 00:11:05.775 the video and the reason why you would click on to watch the video is because 00:11:05.775 --> 00:11:10.695 you have to watch this YouTuber who's making way too much money for doing way too stupid stuff. 00:11:11.495 --> 00:11:16.695 And they're just being wasteful. Like he's like, Oh, I've got this like, um, Ferrari. 00:11:16.935 --> 00:11:20.335 And I think I saw this video of this guy who was driving a Ferrari through a 00:11:20.335 --> 00:11:27.055 cornfield and all the corn, like little remnants of the stocks and everything, 00:11:27.175 --> 00:11:29.695 or being kicked up into the wheel. 00:11:30.635 --> 00:11:36.475 And it gets stuck up in wheel hub and he lights this like Ferrari on fire because 00:11:36.475 --> 00:11:37.715 he was driving it through a 00:11:37.715 --> 00:11:41.955 cornfield and it just goes up in flames and that's the whole stupid video. 00:11:43.815 --> 00:11:46.955 Mr. Beast? I don't think it was Mr. Beast, I think it was somebody else. 00:11:47.055 --> 00:11:51.595 Mr. Beast isn't usually that wasteful, I don't know, I don't, I'm not an expert on Mr. 00:11:51.695 --> 00:11:58.355 Beast, but like it, but it's that type of YouTuber, it's like watch for the spectacle. 00:11:59.075 --> 00:12:02.415 And, you know, and you hear of like other people who are just like, 00:12:03.375 --> 00:12:09.375 you know, ridiculously rich and wasteful, like the whole, oh, 00:12:09.435 --> 00:12:15.595 the whole food trend of gold flaked food. You seen that? 00:12:18.413 --> 00:12:23.593 From everything I understand, it adds almost no taste value. 00:12:23.913 --> 00:12:28.893 No, I mean, yeah, my wife has made a cake for someone with Cold Flake on it, and so I know. 00:12:29.773 --> 00:12:37.573 It is for its extravagance. Yeah. And like- You eat with your eyes first. 00:12:39.293 --> 00:12:45.853 Sure, you do, but- But therein lies, I think for me, part of the, 00:12:45.853 --> 00:12:48.653 like maybe we're getting to something here. 00:12:49.133 --> 00:12:53.933 What the, like, because I would wanna, like I'm thinking about, 00:12:54.053 --> 00:12:57.433 okay, well, how do we actually like get somewhere with this conversation? 00:12:57.613 --> 00:12:59.953 I'm like, okay, if someone were to come to me and they were like, 00:13:00.313 --> 00:13:06.833 how do I know if I'm obese and not sinful or if I'm a glutton and am sinful? 00:13:08.413 --> 00:13:14.473 What would be the, where, what are some questions that I could ask myself? 00:13:14.473 --> 00:13:21.193 Where like the delineating lines, and understand like it's probably not that 00:13:21.193 --> 00:13:22.333 even that black and white. 00:13:25.593 --> 00:13:33.553 But, you know, if we think of, if we're using eating or food or the physical 00:13:33.553 --> 00:13:37.113 body as the kind of case study to talk about gluttony, 00:13:37.753 --> 00:13:51.513 then I think the way in which we even talk about, think about use food is can be indicative, 00:13:52.273 --> 00:14:02.473 of whether or not our practices around food or our eating of food is, 00:14:05.207 --> 00:14:09.667 is leading us into sinful lifestyle or sinful habits or not. 00:14:10.647 --> 00:14:14.547 I've heard people say, I've told my story a lot of times, 00:14:15.327 --> 00:14:19.307 that I was addicted to alcohol, 00:14:21.227 --> 00:14:29.007 and by God's grace, it never escalated to the point of destroying my life or 00:14:29.007 --> 00:14:34.387 my public reputation or my, 00:14:35.267 --> 00:14:43.047 My family or my marriage or anything like that but it was I was like I Was I was on that path? 00:14:43.107 --> 00:14:45.287 I could see it could see it coming down the line and. 00:14:47.407 --> 00:14:50.507 You know that the question was like well, why don't you just stop going to the bars? 00:14:51.827 --> 00:14:55.907 Like well, the answer is I don't go to bars even when I do drink, right? 00:14:56.027 --> 00:15:01.407 It's not like Well, I mean drunks do go to bars, but not all drunks go to bars 00:15:01.407 --> 00:15:04.967 and a lot of drunks actually don't right Yeah, I don't go to the problem. 00:15:05.067 --> 00:15:05.907 They drink by themselves. 00:15:06.147 --> 00:15:09.907 Yeah, I was like, well, yeah just staying out of bars It's not my issue because I never drink in bars. 00:15:11.747 --> 00:15:17.727 And so It became it was a more of a private thing for me and I'm like, 00:15:17.827 --> 00:15:26.287 okay well, that's a different story altogether like the thing that you and and in To take it further. 00:15:26.407 --> 00:15:31.447 I don't need alcohol to live So if you take someone and say, well, 00:15:32.207 --> 00:15:36.807 someone who says, I'm obese and I'm addicted to food, 00:15:37.327 --> 00:15:42.027 it is what I use as a coping mechanism to get through life, is the thing that 00:15:42.027 --> 00:15:46.147 I lean on, is the thing that makes me feel better when I'm sad or depressed 00:15:46.147 --> 00:15:48.427 or anxious or lonely or whatever. 00:15:49.787 --> 00:15:53.067 And you can't just say to them, well, just stop eating. 00:15:54.187 --> 00:15:57.227 Just don't go to the grocery store anymore. Right, right. 00:15:57.287 --> 00:16:00.247 We're you know, like there's a there's a difference over here where alcohol 00:16:00.247 --> 00:16:04.167 I don't need alcohol to survive, right? You you actually get hydrated better 00:16:04.167 --> 00:16:09.427 if you don't drink it exactly like your health significantly improves without it, right? 00:16:09.487 --> 00:16:13.747 So if you like say you have someone that struggles with obesity and maybe they're 00:16:13.747 --> 00:16:16.807 wondering if it's gluttony or not like and they're saying well, 00:16:16.807 --> 00:16:22.067 I Don't Want to be this way. 00:16:23.635 --> 00:16:29.675 But I don't know how to not be this way right because I can't stop eating Yeah, 00:16:29.735 --> 00:16:31.255 I have to I have to keep eating. 00:16:31.375 --> 00:16:34.735 I have to go grocery shopping. I have to do right, you know I can't just stop 00:16:34.735 --> 00:16:39.155 going to the bars type of thing well and then there's also like there's something 00:16:39.155 --> 00:16:43.715 unique about again the distinction between gluttony and obesity is that, 00:16:44.855 --> 00:16:51.515 It is possible that seasons of gluttony have gotten you to a place where you're 00:16:51.515 --> 00:16:53.355 experiencing some level of obesity. 00:16:54.055 --> 00:16:56.915 But you're not gluttonous. But you're not gluttonous anymore. Right. 00:16:57.275 --> 00:17:01.735 So again, using the... again, like to critique the video a little bit, 00:17:02.115 --> 00:17:06.195 is there's that very specific, like... because he says, he's like, 00:17:06.215 --> 00:17:09.295 it's the most visible sin ever, you know, all you gotta do is look at somebody's body. 00:17:09.415 --> 00:17:12.915 And I'm like, well that's not true, you know? Yeah. 00:17:13.715 --> 00:17:21.095 But to even get to... I don't know if this the passage you were looking for, but this is Proverbs 23. 00:17:22.315 --> 00:17:28.415 Verse 19 says this, "'Hear, my son, and be wise, and direct your heart in the way. 00:17:28.955 --> 00:17:35.355 Do not be among the drunkards, or among the gluttonous eaters of meat. 00:17:35.555 --> 00:17:39.835 For the drunkards and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe 00:17:39.835 --> 00:17:44.995 them in rags.'" And so this passage, you know, it's wisdom literature, 00:17:44.995 --> 00:17:48.355 it draws the same parallel that you're drawing. 00:17:48.495 --> 00:17:54.795 There is some similarity to the way drunkenness and gluttony function. 00:17:55.515 --> 00:17:58.875 Excess. Excess, so. Yes, excess. 00:17:59.595 --> 00:18:07.655 Okay, so how would we talk about this pastorally with someone? 00:18:07.775 --> 00:18:10.495 How would you talk about this pastorally? 00:18:11.115 --> 00:18:16.375 Well, I would, you know, I'd want to, I'd want to understand their story first, like, 00:18:16.815 --> 00:18:19.795 like let's just like, just tell me what's going on, you know, 00:18:19.795 --> 00:18:26.715 like what's your relationship with food like, like, um, is it, 00:18:27.355 --> 00:18:30.375 you know, or what's your relationship with your body, right? 00:18:30.395 --> 00:18:35.715 Like, I want to understand the story of like, of kind of like their history 00:18:35.715 --> 00:18:40.575 of it, where they're at, like what's going on, what they're telling themselves currently, 00:18:41.615 --> 00:18:48.515 and kind of, you know, deal with a little bit of the place in which they find themselves. 00:18:49.975 --> 00:18:52.675 Because it's a really contextual... 00:18:53.874 --> 00:18:59.354 You know, individual type of thing, right? And someone like, 00:18:59.534 --> 00:19:03.414 let, let's just let's, let's assume I'm not talking to somebody who is like, 00:19:04.134 --> 00:19:07.234 you know, I think a conversation I was have, if I were to have with somebody 00:19:07.234 --> 00:19:12.334 who's like, very early on in their experience of gluttony, right? 00:19:12.374 --> 00:19:16.114 Like, that would be a pretty straightforward conversation. 00:19:16.414 --> 00:19:21.854 You know, it'd be just like, Hey, man, like, you really shouldn't be doing this, 00:19:21.954 --> 00:19:27.074 like it's like you're beginning to develop like a unhealthy relationship with 00:19:27.074 --> 00:19:31.154 food, like you really ought to not be doing this, this is what the Bible says about it. 00:19:31.434 --> 00:19:37.594 And because it's not an ingrained pattern and way of being, that's a pretty 00:19:37.594 --> 00:19:38.854 straightforward conversation. 00:19:39.654 --> 00:19:45.094 They could go, oh, okay. And they could perhaps, you know, very easily begin 00:19:45.094 --> 00:19:47.294 to change their behavior with some intentionality. 00:19:47.294 --> 00:19:53.434 But if I'm talking with someone who has dealt with gluttony extensively, 00:19:54.154 --> 00:20:02.454 or a lot, they might have a longer road to kind of unpack or undo that, 00:20:02.554 --> 00:20:09.414 and that might involve really kind of breaking down and eliminating shame, 00:20:09.874 --> 00:20:11.914 which is one of the things that that video doesn't do. 00:20:11.914 --> 00:20:14.394 The video is very kind of shame full. 00:20:14.654 --> 00:20:21.014 Yes, full of shame. Yes which if you're if you're dealing with gluttony as a 00:20:21.014 --> 00:20:25.574 coping mechanism, particularly to deal with hurtful or unhelpful. 00:20:26.934 --> 00:20:33.494 Difficult emotions, right you're likely to watch the video feel shamed feel 00:20:33.494 --> 00:20:38.814 Negative emotions and then run go eat go eat because that's what you do if you're 00:20:38.814 --> 00:20:41.234 with your emotions and like, 00:20:41.754 --> 00:20:44.974 you know, and simply to say, like, I've done that too. 00:20:45.234 --> 00:20:49.474 Well, who doesn't, right? Who doesn't use food as somewhat of a coping mechanism? 00:20:49.734 --> 00:20:54.314 Yeah, like I can't keep Oreos in the house, Cameron, because like, 00:20:54.554 --> 00:20:55.874 you know, and I know that like. 00:20:56.074 --> 00:20:59.414 The serving size for an Oreo is a sleeve. Is a sleeve, I know. 00:20:59.974 --> 00:21:01.294 All right, I just. It's a sleeve. 00:21:01.994 --> 00:21:07.534 You know, I, you know, but it was, This is something I've, you know, 00:21:07.574 --> 00:21:14.134 had to become aware of, and it developed really strongly when I was in college. 00:21:14.454 --> 00:21:16.974 I would get, like, this is a funny story. 00:21:18.450 --> 00:21:25.290 Kind of a I was I really college was busy and stressful and I was there was 00:21:25.290 --> 00:21:30.690 this burger joint that was just like Had like the real thin shoestring fries 00:21:30.690 --> 00:21:38.110 and I had a really good like bacon burger and I was just like I really want a vanilla coke a 00:21:38.530 --> 00:21:43.910 bacon cheeseburger fries and gosh darn it a milkshake and I wanted it from that 00:21:43.910 --> 00:21:48.050 specific like and And you know, and I just had this very specific craving. 00:21:48.250 --> 00:21:50.530 I went and got it like door dashed to my dorm room. 00:21:51.070 --> 00:21:54.890 And it was like, you know, there was like an event going on on the dorm floor 00:21:54.890 --> 00:21:59.090 and I had like just some music playing and like one of the guys came by as I 00:21:59.090 --> 00:22:02.490 was like digging into this hamburger and he was like, 00:22:02.570 --> 00:22:05.830 and there was a song playing and it was kind of like a romantic type song and 00:22:05.830 --> 00:22:08.550 he was just like, Luke, I feel like I'm stepping in on like a really private 00:22:08.550 --> 00:22:10.150 moment here. Should I close the door? 00:22:14.310 --> 00:22:19.770 Maybe. Maybe but you know, I share that to be somewhat humorous But also to 00:22:19.770 --> 00:22:25.750 share that like I get it like we all like use food as a coping mechanism sometimes, 00:22:26.610 --> 00:22:31.870 And it's something that we have to be like kind of aware of right my you know, 00:22:32.530 --> 00:22:40.190 running to gluttony as a way to Soothe something inside of my soul rather than just fill my stomach. 00:22:40.330 --> 00:22:44.250 Yeah, I'm learning to food to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Right. 00:22:44.570 --> 00:22:50.050 But the way to stop doing that isn't to beat yourself up about it. No. 00:22:50.490 --> 00:22:54.990 You ultimately, you come back to the gospel. Yeah. Right. 00:22:55.350 --> 00:23:00.230 Yeah. No, shame never brings people into a healthier relationship with God. 00:23:00.350 --> 00:23:04.530 And the Lord does not use shame to bring us closer to Him. 00:23:05.030 --> 00:23:08.670 Yeah. Right. Shame is a tool of the enemy that drives us away from Him, 00:23:08.810 --> 00:23:11.010 that puts a wedge between us and our creator. 00:23:12.150 --> 00:23:17.510 In fact, it was in the garden that the Lord covered the shame of Adam and Eve. Yes. 00:23:18.230 --> 00:23:23.150 Right, with a sacrifice. Right, atonement. Yeah, atonement for sin. 00:23:26.510 --> 00:23:31.270 So, okay, well, let's try and take that conversation about. 00:23:35.370 --> 00:23:40.550 Either obesity or gluttony or however you wanna say it and like talk about its 00:23:40.550 --> 00:23:45.190 relationship to the body, our physical bodies. 00:23:47.510 --> 00:23:49.770 Because I think one of the main premises. 00:23:51.147 --> 00:23:57.647 That he stands on is that your body, your physical body, outside of salvation, 00:23:57.667 --> 00:24:00.407 is the greatest gift that God has given to you. 00:24:00.687 --> 00:24:06.807 So if you misuse it... And he had some anachronistic. 00:24:08.327 --> 00:24:18.007 Data about how it's proven that people with higher fat content live less than 00:24:18.007 --> 00:24:22.227 people who are They're in shape and lift weights and whatever. 00:24:22.367 --> 00:24:23.507 They live longer and they're healthier. 00:24:24.067 --> 00:24:27.167 Like, oh, you're really like... No data. 00:24:27.827 --> 00:24:31.127 Yeah. It just says it, right? And it may or may not be true. I don't know. 00:24:31.367 --> 00:24:35.667 Right, right, right, right. But... Well, and I gotta say before we go fully 00:24:35.667 --> 00:24:40.367 into this context, if you're on Christian social media, Christian Instagram, 00:24:40.827 --> 00:24:48.007 there is a whole Christian subculture of Christian gym bros... 00:24:48.007 --> 00:24:52.247 Oh, yeah, who are like, you know, like these really swole guys who are like, 00:24:52.887 --> 00:24:55.707 Pumping some iron you're like you think you're watching a workout video and 00:24:55.707 --> 00:25:00.647 next era like Proverbs 23, you know and like they you know there are a whole 00:25:00.647 --> 00:25:04.787 lots of like my body is a temple for God flex in front of the mirror like which 00:25:04.787 --> 00:25:07.367 like I'm not hating on no, I mean. 00:25:08.267 --> 00:25:10.067 Like I'm in some cool video. 00:25:10.207 --> 00:25:16.107 I'm in the gym four to five times a week, right? So but like it's not Yeah, it is. 00:25:16.447 --> 00:25:20.507 It's a little overdone on Instagram. Sometimes. Yeah. There's like, yeah. 00:25:20.607 --> 00:25:24.067 So there's a whole, there's an interesting subculture down there. 00:25:24.147 --> 00:25:27.627 Not all of it's bad. Some of it's kind of cool. It's good. Some of it's very encouraging. 00:25:28.027 --> 00:25:35.627 Some of it is a little bit like cringe vanity. Um, yeah, it's very, yeah. 00:25:35.947 --> 00:25:41.707 But um, yeah. So like that. So I think that's kind of the basis of his whole 00:25:41.707 --> 00:25:45.487 argument that obesity is, or gluttony is, a sin. 00:25:45.867 --> 00:25:48.447 I'm gonna say obesity because we've already kind of made the distinction that 00:25:48.447 --> 00:25:49.847 the two are different. Right. Right. 00:25:51.547 --> 00:25:52.647 But I think that's kind of. 00:25:53.569 --> 00:25:58.709 One of his main points is that, hey, you have a body, it's been given to you, it's a gift from God. 00:25:59.329 --> 00:26:05.569 Now, if you don't use it correctly, if you treat it improperly, if you're unhealthy, 00:26:06.969 --> 00:26:14.629 then you're kind of, you know, you're doing abuse to a gift of God. Right, yes. 00:26:17.009 --> 00:26:23.549 So I think it's important to talk about that because I think there's some, 00:26:24.249 --> 00:26:29.829 not to get too esoteric about the conversation here, but I think there's a really, really Western, 00:26:31.089 --> 00:26:34.049 I don't mean like howdy cowboy Western, I mean, 00:26:36.509 --> 00:26:42.429 like the Western world as opposed to the Eastern world, European world, 00:26:43.789 --> 00:26:52.289 there's a really Western way of thinking about the body that is. 00:26:54.149 --> 00:27:02.349 A really, that our faith in God is either embodied or disembodied, 00:27:02.429 --> 00:27:05.709 and right now it's embodied, but someday it will be disembodied. 00:27:06.639 --> 00:27:18.729 Meaning like part of salvation is God's plan to rescue us from these horrible bodies that we have. 00:27:18.729 --> 00:27:23.509 And he's given us a body just in the meantime. 00:27:23.869 --> 00:27:27.329 This is the thing I walk around in for now. Right, but it's just skin. 00:27:27.609 --> 00:27:33.649 It's just our spiritual skin. And then someday we're gonna be released from 00:27:33.649 --> 00:27:38.349 this body and we're gonna live the true spiritual life that we were meant to live. 00:27:38.609 --> 00:27:41.629 There's also like a really utilitarian approach. 00:27:43.009 --> 00:27:49.089 This kind of sense of like, what does the body like, its function, 00:27:49.549 --> 00:27:54.669 and like how I function in the body, and like, so this like, what is it used for? 00:27:55.229 --> 00:27:58.949 What is it, you know, all that. So there's- Well, yeah, it goes to like, 00:27:58.989 --> 00:28:01.589 it tries to communicate that I am not my body. 00:28:02.169 --> 00:28:06.289 Yeah. Who I am is not actually my body. It's not a part of my identity. 00:28:06.449 --> 00:28:08.469 It's not a part of who God has made me to be. Right. 00:28:09.329 --> 00:28:13.229 And I don't really believe that scripture or really actually teaches that at 00:28:13.229 --> 00:28:19.049 all, or implies that even, that God is going to rescue us from these sinful bodies. 00:28:20.409 --> 00:28:26.349 Well, God is gonna resurrect this body, and what sin has done to the body, 00:28:27.269 --> 00:28:29.969 God will resurrect and glorify. 00:28:30.709 --> 00:28:35.229 But when we talk about, if we get really down into theological weeds about the 00:28:35.229 --> 00:28:41.109 theology of our bodies, the theology of our bodies as Christians is connected 00:28:41.109 --> 00:28:44.489 to the theology of Jesus' body, right? 00:28:44.629 --> 00:28:48.609 We have been, in Romans chapter six, we have been united with him in baptism, 00:28:49.089 --> 00:28:53.489 or by faith, and through our baptism, we have been united with both the death 00:28:53.489 --> 00:28:56.269 of Jesus and the resurrection of Jesus. 00:28:56.989 --> 00:29:02.009 So our resurrection will mirror the resurrection of Jesus. 00:29:02.189 --> 00:29:06.109 Well, when Jesus was resurrected back to new life, he wasn't resurrected in 00:29:06.109 --> 00:29:09.689 some sort of spiritual state. 00:29:10.389 --> 00:29:14.149 He had a physical body, he could be touched, he could eat food, right? 00:29:17.009 --> 00:29:23.209 And I think that there is good reason to believe that his body in its resurrected 00:29:23.209 --> 00:29:26.209 state was different. Yes. 00:29:27.175 --> 00:29:30.995 There was some continuity to it. There was some glorification of that body. 00:29:31.375 --> 00:29:33.355 He was not recognized. Yeah. 00:29:34.235 --> 00:29:36.735 They did eventually recognize him. They did eventually recognize him. 00:29:36.795 --> 00:29:39.255 Why? Well, because it was him and they could tell it was him. 00:29:39.335 --> 00:29:40.515 Oh yeah, Jesus, that's you. 00:29:40.695 --> 00:29:43.275 But it kind of looked different and I thought you were dead. 00:29:43.475 --> 00:29:46.435 Yeah. Right. And you still have a hole in your side. Exactly. 00:29:46.695 --> 00:29:48.955 Right. So the same body was resurrected. 00:29:50.595 --> 00:29:58.675 And so if our death and resurrection is connected or united with the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 00:29:58.755 --> 00:30:07.235 And I have to believe that it is that in our eternal state, the park bench in 00:30:07.235 --> 00:30:11.295 heaven, you're gonna recognize me and I'm gonna recognize you. 00:30:11.315 --> 00:30:17.915 05.04.17 05.04.17 Because the bodies in which God has given to us now is not 00:30:17.915 --> 00:30:19.475 something that he's like, 00:30:20.335 --> 00:30:24.355 he wasn't at the beginning of time, he's like, okay, Luke, Luke, 00:30:24.355 --> 00:30:31.115 Spirit Luke, here's your skin that you're gonna wear for while you're in heaven, 00:30:32.095 --> 00:30:36.415 and treat it good, because it's a gift that I'm giving to you, 00:30:37.575 --> 00:30:39.955 and we'll get you a new one someday. 00:30:41.135 --> 00:30:45.815 I mean, yeah, I suppose you could think about it that way, but in reality. 00:30:47.875 --> 00:30:54.155 It is more like, it's not, I think what I don't like about that whole part part 00:30:54.155 --> 00:30:56.015 right there is that it feels like, 00:30:56.855 --> 00:31:03.875 he's making the argument that The body is only a gift you're given and not actually 00:31:03.875 --> 00:31:06.335 a part of who you are by us through God, 00:31:07.460 --> 00:31:12.480 Well, because this, I've talked about this before, but we like to think of, 00:31:12.660 --> 00:31:16.720 you know, we have this very, what is it called? Like, not tri-theism. 00:31:19.280 --> 00:31:22.760 There's this way in which we divide ourselves up into three or four parts, 00:31:22.840 --> 00:31:26.080 depending on how you decide to, like, over-interpret the Bible, right? 00:31:26.760 --> 00:31:33.080 We're usually a mind, body, and soul, right? And you draw a circle and you put, 00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:36.160 like, a pie chart, and you're like, I've got a mind, I've got a body, 00:31:36.180 --> 00:31:38.780 and I've got a soul. And, Like these three parts kind of make me up. 00:31:39.180 --> 00:31:43.920 And the problem with that kind of imagery is that it puts a division between 00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:47.380 my body, between my soul, and between my mind. 00:31:48.380 --> 00:31:54.940 And you say like, oh, well, like, you know, those are my three parts and they 00:31:54.940 --> 00:31:56.660 don't touch each other. They're parts of me. 00:31:57.140 --> 00:32:03.320 And so it's kind of like, I don't know, like, you know, I take care of my body, 00:32:03.460 --> 00:32:06.240 but that doesn't impact how I take care of my soul. 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:10.260 Yeah, and how I take care of my soul doesn't impact how I take care of my mind 00:32:10.260 --> 00:32:14.120 When really the walls between those three? 00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:20.080 Either don't exist or way more permeable. Yep, then we imagine them to be yes, 00:32:20.860 --> 00:32:25.160 You know, we're way more holistic than that, right? 00:32:25.220 --> 00:32:31.800 Well, cuz like imagine, you know like Well, you and I both know what it's like 00:32:31.800 --> 00:32:34.440 when we don't get sleep or we don't get food. 00:32:34.580 --> 00:32:38.380 Or we don't get food. We become hangry. I become very unsanctified if I don't have food. 00:32:38.580 --> 00:32:47.040 It is laughable how many of my bad moods are caused by just lack of food at the current moment. 00:32:47.540 --> 00:32:50.040 And I'm all of a sudden like, wow, I was being a bit of a jerk. 00:32:50.320 --> 00:32:53.940 And really, I just needed to sit down and eat like a granola bar. 00:32:57.700 --> 00:33:03.980 And that's one image or idea that are showing how the body is connected to the 00:33:03.980 --> 00:33:07.960 soul, is connected to the mind, and connected to all of the different stuff. 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:15.400 So no, I don't think it's helpful to think about the body as a thing that my soul possesses. 00:33:16.260 --> 00:33:22.620 It's part of who I am. Yeah, and so he uses in the video an example from scripture. 00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:26.040 Yeah. And he says, this is how I'm gonna prove this. 00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:30.960 It's the parable of the talents, It's Matthew chapter 25, 24, something like that. 00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:39.700 And the parable of the talents essentially goes like, God gives, 00:33:41.617 --> 00:33:47.297 you know, three different people money, right? Asks them to go out and use it, right? 00:33:47.597 --> 00:33:51.697 And one of them goes back and multiplies it by 10, and one of them goes and 00:33:51.697 --> 00:33:56.257 multiplies it by five, and the other is like, I am afraid of my master, 00:33:56.937 --> 00:34:03.297 and so I bury what he give it, and I have no return on my investment, right? 00:34:05.357 --> 00:34:09.257 And those servants, they bring back the money that they've used, 00:34:09.377 --> 00:34:13.597 plus what they've, or that they were entrusted with, plus what they've reproduced 00:34:13.597 --> 00:34:18.077 it into being, and the master is pleased with the one who has reproduced it by 10, 00:34:18.617 --> 00:34:22.517 pleased with the one who has reproduced it by five, and angry with the one who 00:34:22.517 --> 00:34:24.877 did nothing with it. Jon Sorrentino Right. Except got it dirty. 00:34:24.977 --> 00:34:25.817 Tim Cynova Except got it dirty. 00:34:26.357 --> 00:34:31.737 And so, if you take what God has given you, and you mistreat it, 00:34:31.857 --> 00:34:36.337 or don't use it in the way that he wants you to use it, then there's anger associated with that. 00:34:36.477 --> 00:34:39.097 Jon Sorrentino Right. Right, there's judgment associated with that. 00:34:40.037 --> 00:34:46.917 Generally, okay, like at a very, at a super, super base level, yes. 00:34:47.997 --> 00:34:53.137 All right, but what's the context here? Is Jesus talking about like everything 00:34:53.137 --> 00:35:00.097 that God gives an individual person, they must use in a way in which is pleasing to him? 00:35:00.437 --> 00:35:03.197 Is that the context of the parable of the talents? 00:35:04.490 --> 00:35:09.410 No. No, it's not. It's not. Right? Jesus is speaking to the Jews. Yep. 00:35:09.730 --> 00:35:14.590 Speaking to the Jewish religious leaders who have been entrusted with the law 00:35:14.590 --> 00:35:17.810 and the prophets which testify to him, the Messiah of the world. 00:35:18.010 --> 00:35:22.050 Right? They've been entrusted with the message that can save the world. Yes. Right? 00:35:22.510 --> 00:35:30.710 And instead of using it to build the kingdom of God, they are suppressing it and burying it. Right? 00:35:31.030 --> 00:35:35.470 And God's judgment will be upon them. Right. Because of it. So that's the direct, 00:35:35.530 --> 00:35:38.750 immediate, original meaning of the text. Right. 00:35:39.190 --> 00:35:42.370 If we were to apply it to ourselves, the most direct application is, 00:35:42.650 --> 00:35:44.610 what do we do with the gospel that we've been entrusted with? 00:35:44.610 --> 00:35:47.270 What do we do with the gospel? That's the most direct application. 00:35:47.570 --> 00:35:52.710 You can draw it out to say, like, okay, well, what else has God entrusted me 00:35:52.710 --> 00:35:54.770 with, and how should I steward that well? 00:35:55.190 --> 00:36:03.010 But the unfortunate thing that I think his very wooden application of that passage 00:36:03.010 --> 00:36:09.050 leads you to to is you could make the very clear application that the more swole you are, 00:36:09.690 --> 00:36:15.890 more holier you are, because you've gotten a greater return on your investment. 00:36:16.650 --> 00:36:20.030 And I, you might fall into gluttonous excess of muscle. 00:36:20.390 --> 00:36:26.290 Yep. I was just like, yeah, there's definitely an excess of muscle out there. 00:36:26.390 --> 00:36:31.530 Um, but, uh, you know, I don't think that's true. I don't think that just because 00:36:31.530 --> 00:36:39.590 someone is like more, I don't think just because Arnold is thicker means that he's holier. 00:36:39.790 --> 00:36:43.510 Like it's not a, there's not something godly about that necessarily. 00:36:46.710 --> 00:36:49.950 No. Okay. So. 00:36:51.110 --> 00:36:55.330 Are we on to our third part? I think so. Yeah. Like if you, like say he uses 00:36:55.330 --> 00:37:01.010 the parable of the talents to make his point right does the point remain even if the, 00:37:02.455 --> 00:37:08.975 um premise that he makes it on is false or and like is it is the conclusion 00:37:08.975 --> 00:37:13.735 the same even if the argument is bad yeah well i think one of the things like 00:37:13.735 --> 00:37:15.675 this is interesting to talk about, 00:37:16.375 --> 00:37:20.495 this has perhaps become a bad example to even think about that with because, 00:37:21.015 --> 00:37:28.175 we've mostly dismantled what he said um because we're like well like he's saying 00:37:28.175 --> 00:37:31.135 that obesity is sin, we're like, no, not necessarily. 00:37:31.335 --> 00:37:35.755 There's a lot of reasons why someone may be obese, and not all of those are 00:37:35.755 --> 00:37:37.235 connected to the sin of gluttony. 00:37:39.315 --> 00:37:46.135 So ultimately, in his case, his point doesn't stand, because ultimately, 00:37:46.435 --> 00:37:51.575 it almost lacks, in my opinion, it lacks enough nuance to be incorrect. 00:37:52.235 --> 00:37:55.355 Yeah, I mean, I think we're probably, because we don't agree with it, 00:37:55.355 --> 00:37:58.215 were, I think, if pressed on the issue, he would say, well, yeah, 00:37:58.295 --> 00:38:01.515 gluttony is the sin, obesity is the sin, is what we actually see. 00:38:01.955 --> 00:38:07.775 Right, again, yeah, which I wanna talk about that a little bit, 00:38:08.275 --> 00:38:14.215 but the philosophical question of does someone's premise, 00:38:15.915 --> 00:38:21.435 or if someone's logic is bad and someone's argument is bad, does that invalidate their conclusion? 00:38:21.655 --> 00:38:27.255 And the answer's no, right? It's like I've learned like, you know, like logic. 00:38:27.395 --> 00:38:31.555 So like a logical fallacy is the slippery slope fallacy, um, 00:38:31.575 --> 00:38:36.015 saying that if, well, if you do this one thing, that's going to lead to this 00:38:36.015 --> 00:38:39.235 next thing, which will lead to this next thing, which will lead to this awful conclusion. 00:38:39.635 --> 00:38:43.875 Now that's a logical fallacy. If you're having a logical, a rhetorical, 00:38:44.175 --> 00:38:47.095 a philosophical argument, someone will call you out on that saying, 00:38:47.175 --> 00:38:50.775 uh, a does not necessarily equal B. Right. 00:38:51.435 --> 00:38:55.995 Um, you know, It's kind of a it's kind of a you know, a philosophic Like if 00:38:55.995 --> 00:38:59.055 we were to talk about like the argument to of gateway drugs, 00:38:59.095 --> 00:39:01.615 right like say, oh, well if you start. 00:39:03.415 --> 00:39:07.075 Vaping or something like that and then that's gonna lead you to do this that's 00:39:07.075 --> 00:39:09.575 gonna lead you to do that It's gonna lead you to do this and you're gonna end 00:39:09.575 --> 00:39:12.055 up with this awful conclusion well, 00:39:13.375 --> 00:39:20.615 Experientially, we know that to be true sometimes but it is not a default true. 00:39:21.255 --> 00:39:26.755 A does not always necessarily equal B. And so that's a logical fallacy. 00:39:26.895 --> 00:39:28.955 So correlation and causation. Correlation, causation. 00:39:30.835 --> 00:39:33.055 Yeah, just because the argument that I've made. 00:39:34.729 --> 00:39:42.649 Is wrong doesn't mean that the conclusion I've ended up at is necessarily wrong. You know? 00:39:44.049 --> 00:39:48.529 Like, even like another interesting example of this would be Paul. 00:39:48.629 --> 00:39:52.929 When Paul's in jail and people are telling him, Paul, there's like people out 00:39:52.929 --> 00:39:57.649 here preaching the gospel, but they're kind of like talking trash about you 00:39:57.649 --> 00:40:00.669 while they're preaching the gospel, and they seem to be doing it mostly just 00:40:00.669 --> 00:40:02.789 because they want to be on the cool train. 00:40:02.989 --> 00:40:06.589 And Paul's like, Like it doesn't matter whether or not they're preaching the 00:40:06.589 --> 00:40:12.569 gospel for good reasons or sinful gain, as long as they're still preaching the 00:40:12.569 --> 00:40:13.909 gospel, the conclusion's correct. 00:40:16.269 --> 00:40:21.369 So that's my answer to the question a little bit, but I don't think that that's 00:40:21.369 --> 00:40:25.269 an excuse for poor reasoning and argumentation. No, no. 00:40:25.509 --> 00:40:30.069 I would say I'm close to that. I'm close to that reasoning like, 00:40:31.669 --> 00:40:38.329 But That that reasoning really only holds water for me when I end up agreeing with the conclusion, 00:40:39.129 --> 00:40:44.329 Yeah You know if I if I disagree with the conclusion that I'm gonna say well 00:40:44.329 --> 00:40:48.229 Yeah, all the way back into your premises are wrong. Yeah, also. 00:40:50.749 --> 00:40:58.449 So I think it has to be a case-by-case basis, but But sometimes I think we could try to over-explain. 00:41:01.389 --> 00:41:08.009 Or over-nuance our conclusions. And in the over-nuancing or over-explaining, 00:41:09.069 --> 00:41:12.469 we actually create a false premise upon which our conclusion is built. 00:41:13.829 --> 00:41:17.609 Sometimes it's just better to state the conclusion. 00:41:18.289 --> 00:41:21.549 Right, like it would have been interesting if he had just read some scripture 00:41:21.549 --> 00:41:22.669 that mentioned gluttony. 00:41:22.669 --> 00:41:26.989 That would be all he would need to do and then be able to say, 00:41:27.289 --> 00:41:33.189 here's what we believe gluttony is, here's how it can be connected to obesity 00:41:33.189 --> 00:41:35.489 or lusts or sins of the flesh. 00:41:36.069 --> 00:41:42.189 But gluttony can also be a sin of the mind, a sin of the spirit, a sin of the flesh. 00:41:44.549 --> 00:41:46.929 And so, yeah, I don't. 00:41:49.231 --> 00:41:52.671 I'm going to agree with his conclusion that gluttony, yeah, gluttony is a sin. 00:41:53.111 --> 00:41:56.251 There's no other conclusion to get to. 00:41:56.391 --> 00:42:00.151 Granting that that's what he actually means. Granted that's what he actually means. 00:42:00.171 --> 00:42:04.951 If that's not what he actually means, if he means obesity is universally a sin, I do not agree with that. 00:42:05.451 --> 00:42:10.131 If he means gluttony is a sin, well, yeah, I would have to just flat out say 00:42:10.131 --> 00:42:11.911 the Bible is incorrect in that. 00:42:11.991 --> 00:42:15.471 I'm not going to say that. I don't believe that, because I do believe the sin 00:42:15.471 --> 00:42:19.591 of gluttony is indeed a sin, the sin of excess. 00:42:20.071 --> 00:42:26.391 But I also don't believe that it's only associated with obesity. 00:42:27.611 --> 00:42:34.531 I want to talk a little bit about, I have had a friend who was constantly coming 00:42:34.531 --> 00:42:35.651 up to me and he was just like, 00:42:36.211 --> 00:42:38.771 he was an interesting cat, but he was just always, you know, 00:42:39.071 --> 00:42:43.471 way up in the clouds thinking about stuff but he was just like the medium is the message. 00:42:44.251 --> 00:42:47.871 The thing he said to me over and over and over again. And as we talk about this 00:42:47.871 --> 00:42:54.651 video that's just constantly what's in my mind is the medium through which this 00:42:54.651 --> 00:43:00.911 guy's communicating his idea has impacted the message that he's ultimately delivered. 00:43:02.251 --> 00:43:08.211 Because like so like short form video right you're scrolling on Instagram, 00:43:08.871 --> 00:43:14.551 why do you stop, or TikTok, or YouTube, whatever, why do you stop to watch a video? 00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:21.980 Catches your attention. Yeah, right like if you swipe to a video and It's like 00:43:21.980 --> 00:43:24.480 a empty wall with paint drying. 00:43:24.600 --> 00:43:30.040 You're gonna swap you're gonna move to the next video You you want to be caught 00:43:30.040 --> 00:43:33.240 you want we stop and watch a video because of what catches our attention, 00:43:34.220 --> 00:43:40.400 now the unfortunate thing is that it's probably a lot of people and like churches 00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:43.660 and like I know that like even Mmm, 00:43:43.740 --> 00:43:49.700 maybe we've been guilty of making content that's got really good ideas in them really helpful content, 00:43:50.460 --> 00:43:56.760 but You have to be patient enough to sit down and watch it or listen to it or 00:43:56.760 --> 00:44:02.320 like get into it It doesn't always have a like ooh cool hook. 00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:07.320 Yeah, that will get someone to stop and watch it Mm-hmm and the temptation right? 00:44:07.940 --> 00:44:13.120 This is where clickbait comes in, right? You see the thumbnail or the headline 00:44:13.120 --> 00:44:16.340 of an article, oh my gosh, five things you're eating right now that are going 00:44:16.340 --> 00:44:17.540 to end your life tomorrow. 00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:22.620 This one thing will save you from a life of ruin or whatever, 00:44:22.700 --> 00:44:24.020 and you're like, oh, I need to know. 00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:27.080 And you click on it and you find out it's like, oh, well, it's not, 00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:31.660 the headline didn't lead up to what it actually was, or the thumbnail. 00:44:32.940 --> 00:44:40.720 And so it's possible that in him trying to make content that is easily engaged with, 00:44:41.060 --> 00:44:48.000 likable, shareable, in the internet world, in Instagram for his instance, 00:44:48.180 --> 00:44:54.900 that he's shaping and forming his content in such a way that is transforming it. 00:44:56.020 --> 00:44:59.240 You know, like we just said, what if he had just read Scripture Verses? 00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:02.540 Well, chances are, we wouldn't have seen it because nobody really would have 00:45:02.540 --> 00:45:10.500 watched that video. Um, yeah, yeah, I don't, I don't disagree. 00:45:13.420 --> 00:45:18.340 Um, you know, I wonder if your friend who uses that phrase a lot or you, 00:45:18.380 --> 00:45:20.040 I have, I've, I've heard you use it a lot. 00:45:20.080 --> 00:45:24.260 So if we could say that the medium. 00:45:26.900 --> 00:45:31.620 Dictates the effectiveness of the message rather than the medium is the message. 00:45:31.620 --> 00:45:34.940 Cause for me, it kind of feels like the medium is the false premises, 00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:43.040 he makes false premise, but the conclusion is generally ends up being okay. Yeah. Right. 00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:46.000 So the. 00:45:47.846 --> 00:45:51.406 My feeling there, my thought there is. 00:45:54.586 --> 00:46:02.286 He does himself a disservice with the effectiveness of the conclusion because 00:46:02.286 --> 00:46:08.426 of the medium or the way in which he uses the argument, 00:46:09.126 --> 00:46:12.226 the spirit in which he shows up in the argument or whatever. 00:46:12.466 --> 00:46:14.526 So it doesn't change the conclusion. 00:46:15.306 --> 00:46:21.546 The conclusion remains the same. It does add a conclusion Which is what that? 00:46:22.486 --> 00:46:27.266 His his the way in which because like he goes on to like this really like this, 00:46:28.726 --> 00:46:35.466 pretty guilt and heavy laden like Example of like well, like you should feel 00:46:35.466 --> 00:46:39.546 bad for all the disabled people that don't have a body that they can ruin, right? 00:46:40.186 --> 00:46:46.666 In just the general way in which he approaches the topic is is indicating like, 00:46:46.886 --> 00:46:51.046 oh, that's an okay way to talk about this topic and way to treat people. 00:46:51.306 --> 00:46:56.446 Like I should, like actually, I actually know someone who I would avoid having 00:46:56.446 --> 00:47:04.766 this conversation with because he gets irrationally angry and mean and derisive of people who are obese. 00:47:05.746 --> 00:47:10.426 And I'm like, that is not an okay way to talk about to anyone, 00:47:10.426 --> 00:47:14.946 like no matter how much you think it's their fault," and all of that. 00:47:17.246 --> 00:47:21.766 And so there is something that unintentionally, right? 00:47:21.826 --> 00:47:27.586 We could say that his clear objective message is to raise an awareness about sin, but, 00:47:28.286 --> 00:47:32.626 because of the way in which he's communicated it, the medium, 00:47:32.886 --> 00:47:36.966 there is a message attached to that, that, oh, it's okay to say that, 00:47:37.006 --> 00:47:42.026 it's okay to interpret that Bible passage that way, way to treat people this way, and so forth. 00:47:42.506 --> 00:47:44.846 Yeah, I can get behind that, I can get behind that, yeah. 00:47:51.330 --> 00:47:56.650 So what did we determine today? I don't know. 00:47:57.870 --> 00:48:02.870 I don't know that we did determine anything. No, we didn't determine anything. Other than there, 00:48:03.110 --> 00:48:11.230 I think, that we would have, we prefer, I mean, a more pastoral approach to 00:48:11.230 --> 00:48:18.010 what is a sensitive and nuanced issue when it comes to, like, it's not, 00:48:18.930 --> 00:48:26.670 the sin of gluttony is not nuanced issue, but obesity is a more nuanced issue 00:48:26.670 --> 00:48:33.470 that is not always firmly rooted in a scripture and verse. Right. 00:48:33.970 --> 00:48:37.450 And sometimes we need to take a holistic approach to things. Yes. 00:48:37.670 --> 00:48:40.830 It's not just simply stop doing that. 00:48:41.010 --> 00:48:48.510 Right. Because like we've been reading in Romans, the law tends to have a way of increasing sin. 00:48:49.470 --> 00:48:53.310 And so if we just simply say, well, the Bible says that's wrong, 00:48:53.630 --> 00:48:57.350 we're giving someone the law that does not always produce righteousness. 00:48:57.690 --> 00:48:59.070 Often it produces the opposite. 00:49:00.070 --> 00:49:07.330 Right. And as sin increases because of the law, like the grace of God, how much more, 00:49:07.570 --> 00:49:11.790 we read that in Paul for like three different times in chapter four, 00:49:11.930 --> 00:49:17.710 how much more than, how much more than, how much more is the grace of God than the power of sin. 00:49:17.710 --> 00:49:20.410 So there's grace in it, for sure. 00:49:20.570 --> 00:49:24.550 Yeah, and we hope that our conversation today was graceful. 00:49:24.830 --> 00:49:30.710 Yes, well, I always come back, here's the thing that I. 00:49:34.950 --> 00:49:36.730 This is the thing that bothers me, 00:49:40.390 --> 00:49:45.870 and it's a conversation or it's a thing that I've said to maybe a handful of 00:49:45.870 --> 00:49:50.650 people over the last few years who have come at me for various reasons. 00:49:51.050 --> 00:49:53.370 Don't come at Cameron. Don't come at me, bro. Don't come at him. 00:49:53.870 --> 00:49:58.570 He's just gonna warn all of you. Yeah, who have come at me to say things like, 00:49:59.730 --> 00:50:08.990 you know, you're judgmental of me because I heard you say that you think X is 00:50:08.990 --> 00:50:11.870 sinful or whatever, right? 00:50:15.450 --> 00:50:26.390 And my response, like, has Cameron Linehart ever treated someone poorly and judgmentally? 00:50:26.830 --> 00:50:33.410 Yes, I have, right? And I need to repent of those things in those times and 00:50:33.410 --> 00:50:34.690 I need to seek their forgiveness. 00:50:35.390 --> 00:50:44.350 I need to ask the Lord to help me be more like Christ in those moments, but. 00:50:46.478 --> 00:50:51.098 We'll just use the example from today. You may be a person who struggles with 00:50:51.098 --> 00:50:56.298 obesity, and you might hear us talking about gluttony as a sin, 00:50:56.658 --> 00:51:00.978 and might feel inclined to say something like, 00:51:03.098 --> 00:51:09.538 you have been judgmental of me, and have treated me like you're treating me 00:51:09.538 --> 00:51:15.418 poorly because of what you've said, and my question to them, 00:51:16.058 --> 00:51:18.038 usually in a situation like that is, okay, 00:51:18.718 --> 00:51:22.078 we've had significant interaction in life before, right? 00:51:22.238 --> 00:51:25.718 Like I've been your pastor for a long time, or I've been your friend for a long 00:51:25.718 --> 00:51:28.778 time, or we see each other often, right? 00:51:29.238 --> 00:51:39.458 Have I ever treated you without dignity, respect, honor, and love? 00:51:41.738 --> 00:51:45.778 And I mean, sometimes the answer is yes, and we have to have a conversation about that, right? 00:51:46.078 --> 00:51:56.098 Like, but I endeavor to live my life in the treatment of others as I would like 00:51:56.098 --> 00:51:57.918 to be treated. Yeah. Right? 00:51:58.678 --> 00:52:05.118 Despite what I may believe or think about their lifestyle, because their sin is not my issue. 00:52:05.578 --> 00:52:09.698 It's not my problem, any more than my sin is theirs. 00:52:13.358 --> 00:52:22.798 And so it annoys me when people are like, oh, you hold this stance on that issue. 00:52:22.958 --> 00:52:25.058 You must be so mean to all those people. 00:52:25.238 --> 00:52:27.838 Actually, I'm really not mean to anyone. 00:52:28.978 --> 00:52:34.718 Or at least I try not to be mean to anyone. I try to be gentle and kind and patient. Sometimes, 00:52:36.270 --> 00:52:42.630 So much so that it gets me in trouble with pharisaical Christians Who want me 00:52:42.630 --> 00:52:44.690 to be meaner to people in their sins? 00:52:45.470 --> 00:52:48.990 So it's like I can't freaking win for losing here. 00:52:49.090 --> 00:52:53.390 Yeah, you know but I would rather err on the side of, 00:52:53.950 --> 00:52:59.630 Being too gentle and patient and kind right people who are sinning then being 00:52:59.630 --> 00:53:04.710 too harsh And misrepresenting the grace offered to them in Jesus Christ. 00:53:04.870 --> 00:53:09.730 Yeah Every context, or every conversation has its context, right? 00:53:10.470 --> 00:53:16.410 If we were having a conversation with someone, and not just with each other 00:53:16.410 --> 00:53:22.430 and about a broad range of topics, it would flavor it. 00:53:23.190 --> 00:53:28.210 And that's why we, because we did, we did include what is a pastoral response 00:53:28.210 --> 00:53:34.650 to try and bring ourselves to articulate a little bit of a contextualized, 00:53:34.870 --> 00:53:36.230 fleshed-out, incarnational. 00:53:38.700 --> 00:53:45.690 How many buzzwords can I stick in, way of talking about it, and not just up 00:53:45.690 --> 00:53:47.350 here, pie in the sky. Yeah. 00:53:48.110 --> 00:53:52.810 Yeah. So, yeah. Well, we hope you enjoyed this episode of the podcast. 00:53:53.170 --> 00:53:58.330 We truly, 100% serious, did not put this episode closest to Thanksgiving. 00:53:58.670 --> 00:54:03.150 It just happened to be. It just happened that way. It was what we decided to 00:54:03.150 --> 00:54:05.990 talk about right before we turned on the mics, so. 00:54:06.310 --> 00:54:10.710 But we hope you, at least the conversation was helpful for you in some way. 00:54:10.970 --> 00:54:14.950 If you have comments or questions, you can always drop them in the comment section 00:54:14.950 --> 00:54:16.070 if you're watching this on YouTube. 00:54:16.550 --> 00:54:21.230 Or if you would like to ask us a question that maybe you want to hear us talk 00:54:21.230 --> 00:54:23.650 about on the podcast, you can text that in to 716-201-0507. 00:54:27.610 --> 00:54:31.770 And as always if you wouldn't mind liking sharing subscribing sending this to 00:54:31.770 --> 00:54:34.950 your friends Commenting wherever you are. 00:54:35.090 --> 00:54:38.910 That would be a great help for us We're our subscriber numbers have jumped pretty 00:54:38.910 --> 00:54:42.230 significantly in the last month or so almost doubled in the last month I'd love 00:54:42.230 --> 00:54:43.630 to hit a hundred by the new year. 00:54:43.650 --> 00:54:45.710 That'd be fun 100 subscribers by the new 00:54:45.710 --> 00:54:50.130 year How about this if we hit 100 subscribers? What are we gonna do cam? 00:54:51.030 --> 00:54:54.950 I don't know I was gonna say let's we'll put up a merch store But who the heck 00:54:54.950 --> 00:54:59.010 wants a merch store for a podcast that no one listens to? I don't know. 00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:06.800 Music. 00:55:02.330 --> 00:55:03.330 I don't know, maybe. 00:55:07.390 --> 00:55:10.050 Maybe we'll make like a limited edition amount of hats or something. 00:55:10.050 --> 00:55:13.150 Yes, or coffee mugs or something. I don't know. Anyway, yeah, 00:55:13.150 --> 00:55:15.090 no one wants that. No one cares. Alright. 00:55:15.750 --> 00:55:18.590 Anyway, thanks for listening and we'll catch you on the next one.