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Rosemary Thornton: And I
looked up, and over my left

2
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shoulder, pretty interested
by the fact that I have some

3
00:00:04,700 --> 00:00:06,250
sort of human esque form.

4
00:00:06,884 --> 00:00:10,424
I looked up and over my left
shoulder and I said, literally

5
00:00:10,424 --> 00:00:13,715
with a lilt in my voice,
I said, and who are you?

6
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And the answer was immediate.

7
00:00:15,835 --> 00:00:18,984
The answer was, you're
the image and likeness.

8
00:00:19,355 --> 00:00:20,534
I'm the original.

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00:00:23,638 --> 00:00:25,908
Rod Bland: My guest today
is a Rosemary Thornton,

10
00:00:25,928 --> 00:00:29,618
who is an author and a near
death experience survivor.

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00:00:30,238 --> 00:00:32,428
Rosemary, welcome, and thanks
for coming on the show today.

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00:00:33,483 --> 00:00:33,893
Rosemary Thornton: Thank you.

13
00:00:33,923 --> 00:00:34,793
Glad to be here.

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00:00:36,018 --> 00:00:38,778
Rod Bland: Well, I'd like to
start with some background

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00:00:38,778 --> 00:00:41,518
of what your life was growing
up, if we could, and then

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00:00:41,518 --> 00:00:43,168
can you tell us about your
near death experience?

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00:00:43,168 --> 00:00:45,668
Heh

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00:00:45,813 --> 00:00:46,353
Rosemary Thornton: a bore.

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00:00:46,483 --> 00:00:48,853
The fun stuff started
later in life.

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00:00:49,748 --> 00:00:49,768
Rod Bland: heh.

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00:00:51,223 --> 00:00:53,623
Rosemary Thornton: Actually,
a lot of people do this, when

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they talk about near death.

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And I've been a writer for, I
guess, 30 years and I call it

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my temporary death experience.

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00:01:01,863 --> 00:01:04,693
Near death is if you're
on an airplane and it's

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careening toward the ground
and things are going badly

27
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and at the last minute there's
a wonderful heroic save

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and it all turns out well.

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That's near death.

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Rod Bland: Yeah.

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Rosemary Thornton: and it's
true for most people who've

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had the so called NDEs, I
died and got to come back.

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But yeah, growing up, I grew
up, you know, typical person

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in, in the United States, I
guess, baby boomer and, uh,

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you know, had a very, very
thoughtful, artistic mom

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and a not so thoughtful dad.

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00:01:32,633 --> 00:01:33,673
And you know, that's life.

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I talk about that.

39
00:01:34,383 --> 00:01:36,063
And you know, it's really
interesting on other

40
00:01:36,063 --> 00:01:38,693
podcasts I've done, cause
I've done a lot of podcasts.

41
00:01:39,263 --> 00:01:42,143
One of the most common
comments I get is,

42
00:01:42,143 --> 00:01:44,903
uh, is people talking
about my father.

43
00:01:45,783 --> 00:01:48,623
The comment I made that my
dad was not really a kind man.

44
00:01:48,723 --> 00:01:50,733
I get a lot of
email about that.

45
00:01:50,743 --> 00:01:51,713
It's very interesting.

46
00:01:51,713 --> 00:01:54,883
Apparently that's not
an uncommon experience.

47
00:01:55,798 --> 00:01:57,288
Rod Bland: It's a
generational thing, isn't it?

48
00:01:57,288 --> 00:02:00,808
It's like one, one father
wasn't great and that

49
00:02:00,808 --> 00:02:03,108
didn't teach that son
how to be a great father

50
00:02:03,108 --> 00:02:03,848
and so on and so forth.

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00:02:04,438 --> 00:02:05,438
Rosemary Thornton: So
yeah, I've, I've written

52
00:02:05,438 --> 00:02:06,018
a bunch of books.

53
00:02:06,158 --> 00:02:06,948
Well, not a bunch.

54
00:02:06,948 --> 00:02:07,988
I've written 10 books.

55
00:02:08,028 --> 00:02:10,688
I'd written 9 and
then I had this NDE,

56
00:02:10,758 --> 00:02:11,618
I guess we'll call it.

57
00:02:11,678 --> 00:02:15,218
And, uh, several people
asked me, was I going to

58
00:02:15,218 --> 00:02:16,128
write a book about it?

59
00:02:16,148 --> 00:02:18,568
And I said, Oh no, heck no.

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00:02:18,598 --> 00:02:19,298
I've written 9.

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00:02:19,298 --> 00:02:22,618
I think it was Dorothy Parker
who said, I hate writing.

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00:02:22,658 --> 00:02:24,118
I love having written.

63
00:02:25,108 --> 00:02:28,298
And I identify with
that very, very clearly.

64
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Writing is hard.

65
00:02:29,368 --> 00:02:30,148
I didn't want to write a book.

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00:02:30,148 --> 00:02:31,608
And plus it's very private.

67
00:02:31,608 --> 00:02:33,968
I You know, I'm, I'm actually
a really private person.

68
00:02:33,968 --> 00:02:36,938
My other books were on
architectural history.

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00:02:37,278 --> 00:02:42,768
It's easy to write about old
houses, but writing about,

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you know, kind of a memoir
of your life and, you know,

71
00:02:46,238 --> 00:02:48,608
finding what you thought
was a love of, of your life.

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00:02:48,608 --> 00:02:51,968
And then that ended very badly
and then getting sick and

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00:02:51,988 --> 00:02:54,358
going to heaven and getting,
as my friend Dale says, I

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00:02:54,358 --> 00:02:55,548
got evicted from heaven.

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00:02:55,578 --> 00:03:00,478
So there's that, it's
pretty personal stuff.

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00:03:01,408 --> 00:03:02,388
Rod Bland: But you did anyway.

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00:03:02,398 --> 00:03:05,878
So, um, there's a couple
of things there I wanted

78
00:03:05,958 --> 00:03:09,748
to, to tease out, if you
don't mind talking about it.

79
00:03:09,748 --> 00:03:13,198
So there was something about,
about your husband, and, uh,

80
00:03:13,248 --> 00:03:16,088
your life together and then
something after that as well.

81
00:03:16,088 --> 00:03:18,428
I didn't quite catch what it
was, but I feel like there

82
00:03:18,428 --> 00:03:20,338
was, there was something
there was, I was trying to

83
00:03:20,338 --> 00:03:21,228
read between the lines there.

84
00:03:21,268 --> 00:03:22,208
Can you tell us
more about that?

85
00:03:22,208 --> 00:03:23,055
Hmm.

86
00:03:23,333 --> 00:03:24,913
Rosemary Thornton: well,
I guess the big point of

87
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the story is that, uh,

88
00:03:28,413 --> 00:03:32,263
I met him, uh, he was my
second husband, actually,

89
00:03:32,263 --> 00:03:35,723
and I met him in my early
40s, and I just couldn't

90
00:03:35,723 --> 00:03:39,373
believe that I had found
somebody as wonderful as him.

91
00:03:39,893 --> 00:03:45,403
He was handsome, educated,
successful, uh, You know,

92
00:03:45,413 --> 00:03:46,193
et cetera, et cetera.

93
00:03:46,683 --> 00:03:49,103
And then after about 10
years of marriage, he, uh,

94
00:03:49,143 --> 00:03:52,163
he ended his life one day,
which there was no warning,

95
00:03:52,863 --> 00:03:56,683
no, no expectation that that's
how it was going to end.

96
00:03:56,683 --> 00:03:59,813
In fact, we were planning
to buy a retirement home

97
00:03:59,823 --> 00:04:02,353
in a nearby community and,
you know, live out the

98
00:04:02,353 --> 00:04:03,573
rest of our days there.

99
00:04:04,343 --> 00:04:06,213
So, uh, that was devastating.

100
00:04:06,693 --> 00:04:08,913
To call that devastating
is an understatement.

101
00:04:09,673 --> 00:04:12,733
And one of my chief gripes,
and I'm not going to go

102
00:04:13,543 --> 00:04:17,183
too far down the proverbial
rabbit hole here, but we

103
00:04:17,183 --> 00:04:19,803
talk a lot about suicide
prevention these days.

104
00:04:20,353 --> 00:04:23,833
And I think that's unfair to
people like me who've survived

105
00:04:23,883 --> 00:04:26,413
the suicide of a loved one,
especially on social media.

106
00:04:26,413 --> 00:04:29,873
People say, if you're
feeling sad, just reach out.

107
00:04:30,133 --> 00:04:31,613
Well, you know,
he was my husband.

108
00:04:32,348 --> 00:04:34,448
And there's lots and lots
of people who end their own

109
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lives that don't reach out.

110
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They don't want to reach out.

111
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They just do the thing
they're going to do.

112
00:04:39,668 --> 00:04:42,988
And it doesn't mean it's
a, a moral failure on

113
00:04:42,988 --> 00:04:44,068
their loved one's part.

114
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They, they couldn't
discern it.

115
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They couldn't figure it out.

116
00:04:47,598 --> 00:04:50,688
So that's, uh, I think
it's September is suicide

117
00:04:50,788 --> 00:04:54,128
awareness month or something,
but in, in the US, but

118
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I've just really find that.

119
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Very unfair.

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Anyway, suicide prevention
is kind of a misnomer and I

121
00:05:02,678 --> 00:05:04,038
hope it helps a few people.

122
00:05:04,748 --> 00:05:07,198
I kind of think that if
you're young, it might help

123
00:05:07,198 --> 00:05:10,268
you more than if you're
you know, approaching

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00:05:10,268 --> 00:05:12,908
retirement age or somebody
who's settled in life.

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So I don't know, but that
was very, call it hard was

126
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an understatement, but yeah,
it was, it was, uh, I'm a

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sensitive soul, I'm a writer,
and it devastated me, and

128
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for 29 months I just circled
the drain, kind of waited

129
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to die, you know, I had a
financial advisor take me

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aside and said, where do you
see yourself in two years,

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and this was after his death,
and I didn't miss a beat,

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and said almost immediately,
oh, I'll be dead by then.

133
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Because I had no expectation
I'd survive this.

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I was so sad all the time,
and I talked a lot about

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the fact that in that time
period I had three prayers

136
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because my life was a mess.

137
00:05:48,078 --> 00:05:51,968
The bank started foreclosing
on my house, my marital home

138
00:05:51,968 --> 00:05:54,448
that I had with him, so I
had to sell it in a hurry.

139
00:05:54,858 --> 00:05:57,638
Uh, I couldn't
find a place to be.

140
00:05:57,638 --> 00:05:59,938
I couldn't find a way to
get comfortable anywhere.

141
00:06:01,368 --> 00:06:04,558
So, yeah, things were very
hard then, and then I said

142
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three prayers every night.

143
00:06:05,858 --> 00:06:08,328
One was, I asked God
healed me or let me go?

144
00:06:08,838 --> 00:06:11,338
I knew I couldn't
continue on in that state.

145
00:06:11,788 --> 00:06:14,838
And secondly, my prayer
was no more hard decisions.

146
00:06:15,428 --> 00:06:18,148
I had had to make so many
difficult decisions after

147
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his death, and they were
painful, complicated.

148
00:06:22,208 --> 00:06:24,418
You know, when a spouse
dies, there's a lot of stuff

149
00:06:24,418 --> 00:06:27,008
that has to be tidied up,
but when the spouse dies

150
00:06:27,038 --> 00:06:30,108
by suicide, there's even
more stuff that has to be

151
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And in my case, as is so
typical, and a lot of people

152
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don't realize this, people
compare a spousal death, an

153
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ordinary, what one might call
a natural death to suicide,

154
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and there's no comparison.

155
00:06:45,268 --> 00:06:47,688
Suicide widows like me,
we get questioned by the

156
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police because we become
the prime suspect in a

157
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murder investigation.

158
00:06:52,038 --> 00:06:54,228
That's kind of the last thing
anyone needs to go through.

159
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So there was a lot
of legal messes.

160
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So one of my prayers was
no more hard decisions.

161
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And then the third prayer was,
I had always been a big fan of

162
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NDEs and had read so many of
them, so many of the accounts,

163
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so many individual stories,
so many books, et cetera.

164
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And one of my prayers
was when I pass on, I

165
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don't want a life review.

166
00:07:13,508 --> 00:07:15,598
I had been through
this mess once.

167
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I didn't want to see.

168
00:07:16,998 --> 00:07:20,098
How I crumpled into a sad
little mess after his death.

169
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So, those were
my three prayers.

170
00:07:21,958 --> 00:07:22,838
Heal me or let me go.

171
00:07:22,868 --> 00:07:24,008
No more hard decisions.

172
00:07:24,498 --> 00:07:27,168
And, uh, spare me
the life review.

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Rod Bland: Did you feel in
any way responsible for what

174
00:07:31,498 --> 00:07:32,328
happened with your husband?

175
00:07:32,388 --> 00:07:34,028
Rosemary Thornton: I think
everyone goes through that.

176
00:07:34,468 --> 00:07:34,788
Rod Bland: Mmm.

177
00:07:34,818 --> 00:07:36,278
Rosemary Thornton: And one
of the stories I shared in my

178
00:07:36,278 --> 00:07:37,998
book that meant a lot to me,

179
00:07:38,108 --> 00:07:41,968
I was actually in another
state when this happened, and

180
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I had to fly home immediately.

181
00:07:43,973 --> 00:07:45,033
And I was a mess.

182
00:07:45,123 --> 00:07:46,423
I mean, I got a phone call.

183
00:07:46,803 --> 00:07:47,763
Hey, we found him,

184
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Rod Bland: Mmm.

185
00:07:48,973 --> 00:07:50,453
Rosemary Thornton: know,
it was a very, very bad

186
00:07:50,453 --> 00:07:51,343
way to get the news.

187
00:07:51,363 --> 00:07:53,083
Probably could have
been handled better than

188
00:07:53,083 --> 00:07:55,563
that, but, you know,
everyone was in shock.

189
00:07:56,253 --> 00:08:00,403
So I ended up on a, actually
a, uh, Southwest plane

190
00:08:00,403 --> 00:08:03,368
headed from a northeastern
state to the south where

191
00:08:03,368 --> 00:08:04,338
I lived at the time.

192
00:08:05,108 --> 00:08:09,658
And uh, they had one
seat left on that plane.

193
00:08:09,668 --> 00:08:11,768
It was southwest, so they
don't have assigned seating.

194
00:08:12,228 --> 00:08:15,048
And I ended up seated
next to this guy that kind

195
00:08:15,048 --> 00:08:16,238
of a rough looking cat.

196
00:08:16,248 --> 00:08:17,798
He had tattoos all over him.

197
00:08:17,798 --> 00:08:21,308
He had his hair in a braid and
he was wearing a leather vest.

198
00:08:21,308 --> 00:08:24,968
And, uh, but as I sat down
next to him, he looked at me

199
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and he said, uh, are you okay?

200
00:08:27,448 --> 00:08:28,698
And I said, not really.

201
00:08:29,048 --> 00:08:30,358
And I told him
what had happened.

202
00:08:30,358 --> 00:08:33,618
And he said, for somebody
who's just found out that

203
00:08:33,618 --> 00:08:36,638
their husband died by
their own hand, he said,

204
00:08:36,638 --> 00:08:37,878
you're doing really well.

205
00:08:38,268 --> 00:08:40,858
And he said, whatever happens
through the rest of this

206
00:08:40,888 --> 00:08:44,598
experience, I want you to
remember that God and the

207
00:08:44,598 --> 00:08:47,878
angels are looking out for
you because he said, my

208
00:08:47,878 --> 00:08:49,578
mother did the same thing.

209
00:08:49,828 --> 00:08:53,268
She called me one day, there
was a terrible argument,

210
00:08:53,608 --> 00:08:54,878
and then she ended her life.

211
00:08:55,988 --> 00:08:57,128
And I thought, wow, what?

212
00:08:57,473 --> 00:08:59,933
Just from a very practical
standpoint, what are the odds

213
00:08:59,963 --> 00:09:02,863
that I end up seated next to
a guy who's been through that?

214
00:09:02,873 --> 00:09:05,663
Which is, by the way,
for anyone surviving the

215
00:09:05,663 --> 00:09:08,243
suicide of a close loved
one, that's very common

216
00:09:08,263 --> 00:09:09,303
to have an argument.

217
00:09:09,303 --> 00:09:13,973
It's like that extra angst
or upset gives them an edge

218
00:09:14,003 --> 00:09:15,453
to do this horrible thing.

219
00:09:16,103 --> 00:09:18,483
So, uh, that's not
uncommon at all.

220
00:09:18,483 --> 00:09:20,683
And yet it does leave
you with a lot of guilt.

221
00:09:20,883 --> 00:09:24,543
You know, wow, if I, if I
had not had that argument,

222
00:09:24,543 --> 00:09:25,513
would he still be alive?

223
00:09:25,513 --> 00:09:29,083
And then in time, so many
of the people who loved

224
00:09:29,083 --> 00:09:32,053
me would say things like,
you know, this, this

225
00:09:32,063 --> 00:09:35,033
isn't your fault, but then
somebody explained to me in

226
00:09:35,033 --> 00:09:36,483
a way that stuck with me.

227
00:09:37,233 --> 00:09:40,993
They said, there's nothing
you could have done to

228
00:09:40,993 --> 00:09:42,483
prevent him from doing this.

229
00:09:43,043 --> 00:09:45,613
And there's nothing you
could have done to push

230
00:09:45,613 --> 00:09:46,833
him into doing this.

231
00:09:47,343 --> 00:09:49,963
You just didn't have that
much power in his life.

232
00:09:50,523 --> 00:09:52,823
And that was
immensely comforting.

233
00:09:53,788 --> 00:09:54,208
Rod Bland: Mmm.

234
00:09:54,478 --> 00:09:56,618
Rosemary Thornton: so that,
that was greatly helpful.

235
00:09:57,318 --> 00:10:00,428
And, you know, I, I've often
said that suicide survivors,

236
00:10:00,458 --> 00:10:04,468
which is what we're known as,
are the 21st century lepers.

237
00:10:05,038 --> 00:10:08,168
We scare people and that's
not just true of suicide.

238
00:10:08,178 --> 00:10:11,788
That's also true of, um,
anyone who loses a loved one

239
00:10:11,788 --> 00:10:13,408
through a terrible tragedy.

240
00:10:14,148 --> 00:10:15,318
We frighten people.

241
00:10:15,888 --> 00:10:19,348
You know, I, when, when I
had the visitation for his

242
00:10:19,348 --> 00:10:22,438
funeral and, you know, the
long line of people are coming

243
00:10:22,438 --> 00:10:25,818
up to offer their condolences
and hopefully say things

244
00:10:25,838 --> 00:10:30,268
that are a comfort, lots and
lots of people, I can't say

245
00:10:30,268 --> 00:10:32,778
lots, a handful of people
would come up to me and say,

246
00:10:33,868 --> 00:10:36,398
I don't know what I'd do if
anything happened to my Bobby.

247
00:10:36,428 --> 00:10:38,108
I think I'd just
lay down and die.

248
00:10:39,048 --> 00:10:40,028
Not helpful.

249
00:10:40,563 --> 00:10:43,793
Not helpful because the
inference is that I didn't

250
00:10:43,793 --> 00:10:45,423
love as much as they loved.

251
00:10:45,573 --> 00:10:48,313
If only I'd loved a little
more, I'd probably be

252
00:10:48,313 --> 00:10:49,853
dead because I couldn't
love without them.

253
00:10:50,003 --> 00:10:51,773
So it's, it's
pretty messed up.

254
00:10:51,793 --> 00:10:54,273
And you know, people
say, so what do you say?

255
00:10:54,313 --> 00:10:56,993
What you say is you,
you, you say, I love you.

256
00:10:57,323 --> 00:10:58,943
I'm sorry you're
going through this.

257
00:10:59,643 --> 00:11:01,883
I can bring you a
casserole on Tuesday.

258
00:11:02,203 --> 00:11:03,423
You know, people
say, what can I do?

259
00:11:03,423 --> 00:11:04,603
Don't say, what can I do?

260
00:11:04,953 --> 00:11:06,543
Say, can I show up
Monday afternoon and

261
00:11:06,543 --> 00:11:07,693
take the dog for a walk?

262
00:11:08,333 --> 00:11:10,883
Can I show up Wednesday
and cut the cat's toenails?

263
00:11:11,113 --> 00:11:14,243
I mean, offer practical
things that are hard to do.

264
00:11:14,673 --> 00:11:16,353
That's the best
way to go at it.

265
00:11:16,363 --> 00:11:19,733
And sometimes just say,
you know, I'm cooking a

266
00:11:19,743 --> 00:11:20,813
big meal Thursday night.

267
00:11:20,813 --> 00:11:22,953
Why don't I bring some
over to your house for you?

268
00:11:23,593 --> 00:11:26,263
Because, again, it's so
typical, people who survive

269
00:11:26,263 --> 00:11:29,753
this, uh, you lose the
ability or interest in food.

270
00:11:29,873 --> 00:11:33,343
I lost about, I don't know,
30 or 35 pounds because I

271
00:11:33,343 --> 00:11:34,993
just couldn't physically eat.

272
00:11:35,623 --> 00:11:36,503
So, it's pretty rough.

273
00:11:36,523 --> 00:11:41,513
So, when I was, um, 29
months out from this, I

274
00:11:41,513 --> 00:11:43,203
was diagnosed with cancer.

275
00:11:44,143 --> 00:11:44,763
I couldn't believe it.

276
00:11:44,763 --> 00:11:47,013
I was like, you know
When do I get a break?

277
00:11:47,623 --> 00:11:49,243
When does the bad
stuff stop happening?

278
00:11:49,553 --> 00:11:50,913
When do I get a break on this?

279
00:11:51,593 --> 00:11:54,933
And, and yet, that's when,
um, that's when I had the

280
00:11:54,943 --> 00:11:56,043
near death experience.

281
00:11:56,083 --> 00:11:57,973
It was a surgical
thing gone wrong.

282
00:11:58,553 --> 00:11:59,933
They nicked something.

283
00:12:00,013 --> 00:12:00,593
Whoopsie.

284
00:12:02,523 --> 00:12:04,643
I ended up, they ended up
sending me home even though

285
00:12:04,643 --> 00:12:06,233
I was bleeding a lot.

286
00:12:07,203 --> 00:12:09,878
And then they, uh, They
said, Oh, you'll be fine once

287
00:12:09,878 --> 00:12:10,978
you get home and sit down.

288
00:12:11,568 --> 00:12:13,798
I wish I knew the stats
and I don't remember

289
00:12:13,798 --> 00:12:18,068
the stats anymore, but
women are too likely to

290
00:12:18,068 --> 00:12:19,548
die from heart attacks.

291
00:12:19,548 --> 00:12:21,928
And the reason is when we
go to the hospital or we

292
00:12:21,928 --> 00:12:25,058
presented the ER and we
say, I'm having terrible

293
00:12:25,078 --> 00:12:27,098
chest pain, I feel like
I can't get enough air.

294
00:12:27,098 --> 00:12:28,768
They go, Oh, it's
a panic attack.

295
00:12:28,778 --> 00:12:29,758
It's anxiety.

296
00:12:30,238 --> 00:12:31,348
Go home and take a Valium.

297
00:12:31,348 --> 00:12:32,188
You'll be fine.

298
00:12:33,078 --> 00:12:33,998
Go home and die.

299
00:12:35,088 --> 00:12:37,838
Anyway, I did tell the nurse
I was bleeding out and they

300
00:12:37,838 --> 00:12:40,238
were like, nah, once you get
home, lie down, you'll be

301
00:12:40,238 --> 00:12:43,358
fine, right as rain, just
go back to your own little

302
00:12:43,358 --> 00:12:44,248
bed and lay on your pillow.

303
00:12:44,248 --> 00:12:45,428
You'll be a okay.

304
00:12:45,858 --> 00:12:46,958
So I did what I was told.

305
00:12:46,958 --> 00:12:51,048
I went home and I realized
I was not a okay and I

306
00:12:51,068 --> 00:12:52,328
realized I was bleeding out.

307
00:12:53,838 --> 00:12:56,538
I, I've told this
story before, but I had

308
00:12:56,538 --> 00:12:58,798
really, really pretty
carpet in my house.

309
00:12:58,808 --> 00:13:01,208
I had this really
almost white carpet.

310
00:13:01,208 --> 00:13:03,328
And so, you know, when
you're bleeding to death,

311
00:13:03,338 --> 00:13:05,468
your number one concern
is not messing up the

312
00:13:05,468 --> 00:13:06,968
carpet in the living room.

313
00:13:07,338 --> 00:13:08,678
So I was pretty worried
about that carpet.

314
00:13:09,258 --> 00:13:12,208
So I went and stood in the
bathroom because I knew

315
00:13:12,208 --> 00:13:14,578
if I bled on the tile, it
wouldn't be hard to clean.

316
00:13:15,248 --> 00:13:15,828
And, uh.

317
00:13:16,613 --> 00:13:18,253
I realized I was
bleeding to death.

318
00:13:18,253 --> 00:13:19,453
And you know, I
had thought a lot.

319
00:13:19,483 --> 00:13:22,823
There's a Bible verse,
Corinthians 10, 13, I think

320
00:13:22,823 --> 00:13:26,083
it's first Corinthians,
where it says, uh, God

321
00:13:26,083 --> 00:13:28,203
will not tempt you beyond
what you were able, but God

322
00:13:28,203 --> 00:13:29,223
will show you the way out.

323
00:13:29,223 --> 00:13:31,533
And I heard that years ago.

324
00:13:31,533 --> 00:13:33,583
And I thought,
this is my way out.

325
00:13:34,483 --> 00:13:37,743
I have been given a get
out of jail free card with

326
00:13:37,743 --> 00:13:38,603
this bleeding business.

327
00:13:39,853 --> 00:13:41,263
I really figured
that was the deal.

328
00:13:41,573 --> 00:13:42,843
God had heard my prayers.

329
00:13:42,843 --> 00:13:43,683
I could die now.

330
00:13:44,223 --> 00:13:47,373
And, uh, but then I also
thought, you know, through

331
00:13:47,373 --> 00:13:50,383
this whole process, a lot
of people had worked so

332
00:13:50,383 --> 00:13:51,663
hard to keep me alive.

333
00:13:51,683 --> 00:13:53,363
And I thought, is
it really fair now?

334
00:13:53,363 --> 00:13:54,413
to just die on them.

335
00:13:54,843 --> 00:13:57,493
So I was taken by ambulance
to a hospital and they made

336
00:13:57,493 --> 00:14:00,813
some more mistakes there and
managed to grease the skids

337
00:14:00,833 --> 00:14:03,893
to the afterlife for me and
send me on to my reward.

338
00:14:04,833 --> 00:14:07,073
You know, one of the stories
I share is they gave me,

339
00:14:07,353 --> 00:14:10,333
so I'm bleeding out and
I have lost a tremendous

340
00:14:10,433 --> 00:14:11,323
amount of blood.

341
00:14:12,368 --> 00:14:14,858
Rod Bland: actually blood
exiting your body Like,

342
00:14:15,118 --> 00:14:15,848
you could see that you were

343
00:14:16,113 --> 00:14:18,733
Rosemary Thornton: Yes, it
was a gynecological biopsy.

344
00:14:18,803 --> 00:14:19,213
Yeah.

345
00:14:19,233 --> 00:14:20,493
So it was a lady parts thing.

346
00:14:20,493 --> 00:14:22,248
And, you know, so yeah,
I mean, there was.

347
00:14:22,438 --> 00:14:24,528
It was messy, let's
leave it there.

348
00:14:24,528 --> 00:14:25,818
It was really messy.

349
00:14:26,278 --> 00:14:29,728
And, uh, so at the hospital,

350
00:14:30,698 --> 00:14:34,868
they, uh, they gave me a, uh,
shot of a morphine derivative,

351
00:14:34,898 --> 00:14:37,398
which, you know, if your
blood pressure is going down,

352
00:14:37,468 --> 00:14:39,658
that's, that's like, here
you go, honey, let's get you

353
00:14:39,658 --> 00:14:41,128
to heaven a little faster.

354
00:14:41,588 --> 00:14:44,498
And it, uh, my blood
pressure, my friend, I had

355
00:14:44,498 --> 00:14:45,728
a friend that came with me.

356
00:14:45,728 --> 00:14:48,318
I talk about him in my
book and sat beside me.

357
00:14:48,358 --> 00:14:52,398
So they gave me this shot of,
uh, of a morphine, uh, drug,

358
00:14:52,418 --> 00:14:53,908
morphine derivative, actually.

359
00:14:54,548 --> 00:14:57,338
And the doctor and the nurse
go out into the hallway

360
00:14:57,338 --> 00:14:58,468
like, Yeah, she'll be fine.

361
00:14:59,388 --> 00:15:00,998
So my friend stayed with me.

362
00:15:01,608 --> 00:15:03,548
And he's, and he said, I
passed out pretty quick.

363
00:15:03,568 --> 00:15:06,408
I passed out because
I'm almost dead.

364
00:15:06,663 --> 00:15:08,433
And they give me a shot
at this morphine stuff.

365
00:15:08,863 --> 00:15:11,253
And then, uh, he said at
one point he looked at the

366
00:15:11,253 --> 00:15:14,693
blood pressure cuff and
it said, uh, 32 over 25,

367
00:15:14,723 --> 00:15:15,983
which is pretty much dead.

368
00:15:16,693 --> 00:15:20,483
And he said, at that point,
I, uh, I tried to sit up

369
00:15:20,483 --> 00:15:22,733
on the gurney, which is
pretty darn impressive.

370
00:15:23,383 --> 00:15:24,833
And I reached my hands up.

371
00:15:25,018 --> 00:15:27,898
Like I was, you know, ready
for somebody to pick me up.

372
00:15:28,288 --> 00:15:30,308
And he said, my friend,
the witness said, you

373
00:15:30,308 --> 00:15:32,758
talk to somebody that
only you could see.

374
00:15:33,778 --> 00:15:36,448
And he said, and after
that, I flopped back down.

375
00:15:37,088 --> 00:15:40,248
And, uh, that's when I went
to heaven and it was great.

376
00:15:41,048 --> 00:15:43,568
You know, I don't remember
that reaching up stuff.

377
00:15:44,138 --> 00:15:47,488
I don't remember that at all,
but I do remember I had been

378
00:15:47,488 --> 00:15:50,978
in a deep, dreamless state
at the time of my death.

379
00:15:51,798 --> 00:15:54,538
And I popped out of that body
like toast out of a toaster.

380
00:15:54,538 --> 00:15:57,288
It was very, very dramatic.

381
00:15:57,608 --> 00:16:00,668
And having been a fan
of NDEs, I knew exactly

382
00:16:00,668 --> 00:16:01,548
what was happening.

383
00:16:02,058 --> 00:16:04,398
I knew I was dead and
floating away from my body.

384
00:16:04,398 --> 00:16:06,818
I was floating away
in this blackness and

385
00:16:06,818 --> 00:16:08,278
floating away from my body.

386
00:16:08,278 --> 00:16:10,568
I thought, this is great.

387
00:16:11,088 --> 00:16:11,808
I'm out.

388
00:16:12,448 --> 00:16:14,868
And I remember thinking
one of my first thoughts

389
00:16:14,868 --> 00:16:17,958
was it really did feel
like I'd been granted early

390
00:16:17,958 --> 00:16:19,578
release for good behavior.

391
00:16:19,948 --> 00:16:22,118
I mean, I was pretty
done with earth at this

392
00:16:22,128 --> 00:16:25,368
point and because I was
supposed to start chemo and

393
00:16:25,378 --> 00:16:27,638
radiation in the next week.

394
00:16:27,678 --> 00:16:28,358
And I thought.

395
00:16:28,728 --> 00:16:31,348
Hmm, that's no longer
a concern, is it?

396
00:16:32,208 --> 00:16:34,758
And one of the things that
I take great comfort in,

397
00:16:34,758 --> 00:16:37,628
and I'm told other people
find comforting, is I

398
00:16:37,628 --> 00:16:38,938
remembered all that stuff.

399
00:16:38,938 --> 00:16:41,108
I remember the firemen who
came to the door to put

400
00:16:41,108 --> 00:16:44,348
me on a gurney and hustle
me off to a hospital.

401
00:16:45,088 --> 00:16:48,258
I remember the friends who
had shown me so much love.

402
00:16:48,603 --> 00:16:50,203
And so much kindness.

403
00:16:51,213 --> 00:16:54,303
I remembered that I had
some bills due and I was no

404
00:16:54,333 --> 00:16:56,243
longer worried about them.

405
00:16:56,893 --> 00:16:59,573
And I remember thinking,
that is not my problem

406
00:16:59,573 --> 00:17:00,333
anymore either.

407
00:17:01,523 --> 00:17:04,913
I remembered so much
of my life in this

408
00:17:04,913 --> 00:17:06,263
earthly experience.

409
00:17:06,913 --> 00:17:10,668
And one of the first things
that happened was I thought

410
00:17:10,688 --> 00:17:14,308
is I'm floating away in this
perfect velvety comforting

411
00:17:14,318 --> 00:17:18,008
and comfortable blackness
and I remember thinking

412
00:17:18,128 --> 00:17:21,318
my heart has stopped and I
thought how do I know that

413
00:17:21,548 --> 00:17:23,928
and I thought I don't know
how I know that but I know

414
00:17:23,928 --> 00:17:27,088
that's right and then my is
you know again still drifting

415
00:17:27,128 --> 00:17:31,438
floating very peaceful gentle
floating away from my body and

416
00:17:31,438 --> 00:17:38,238
then I thought you're dying
and then I thought actually

417
00:17:38,238 --> 00:17:40,628
you're not dying You're dead.

418
00:17:41,068 --> 00:17:43,278
Because when you're going
on to your reward, the

419
00:17:43,278 --> 00:17:45,918
most important thing is
correcting your tense.

420
00:17:47,108 --> 00:17:48,278
And it cracked me up.

421
00:17:48,548 --> 00:17:51,378
And I thought, it was so
funny, I laughed out loud.

422
00:17:51,818 --> 00:17:54,238
Because, you know, I
crack myself up a lot.

423
00:17:55,018 --> 00:17:56,718
Talk to myself a lot.

424
00:17:57,233 --> 00:18:00,373
And that was also immensely
comforting because I remember

425
00:18:00,373 --> 00:18:03,873
thinking, I don't think I'm,
I know I don't have breath

426
00:18:03,873 --> 00:18:06,863
sounds and I don't know
that I have vocal cords or

427
00:18:06,863 --> 00:18:09,573
lungs or the traditional
accoutrements that you use

428
00:18:09,613 --> 00:18:13,833
to produce voice and sounds,
not to mention hearing.

429
00:18:14,353 --> 00:18:17,973
And yet I can hear and
I hear my own giggle.

430
00:18:18,148 --> 00:18:21,008
And that was so comforting
to know that even my funny

431
00:18:21,008 --> 00:18:22,508
little giggle went with me.

432
00:18:22,798 --> 00:18:24,618
It was immensely comforting.

433
00:18:25,168 --> 00:18:27,778
And then another thing that
happened very early on is

434
00:18:27,778 --> 00:18:30,458
while I'm still floating,
I mean this floating, I

435
00:18:30,458 --> 00:18:33,478
don't know if it went on
for 20 seconds or 20 minutes

436
00:18:33,478 --> 00:18:36,218
or who can define such
things in another realm.

437
00:18:36,898 --> 00:18:41,098
But at one point I felt that I
was joined by a massive, and I

438
00:18:41,138 --> 00:18:42,738
mean massive, spiritual being.

439
00:18:42,748 --> 00:18:46,568
And she was to my left,
and much taller than

440
00:18:46,568 --> 00:18:49,158
me, and very tender.

441
00:18:49,158 --> 00:18:50,158
I wasn't afraid.

442
00:18:50,158 --> 00:18:52,458
I was comforted
by this presence.

443
00:18:52,808 --> 00:18:53,968
Very comforted.

444
00:18:54,348 --> 00:18:56,008
And I hadn't even thought
about the fact that it

445
00:18:56,048 --> 00:18:58,688
seemed like I was alone until
this presence joined me.

446
00:18:59,208 --> 00:19:01,608
And I looked up, and
over my left shoulder,

447
00:19:01,608 --> 00:19:03,908
pretty interested by the
fact that I have some

448
00:19:03,908 --> 00:19:05,458
sort of human esque form.

449
00:19:06,093 --> 00:19:09,633
I looked up and over my left
shoulder and I said, literally

450
00:19:09,633 --> 00:19:12,923
with a lilt in my voice,
I said, and who are you?

451
00:19:13,563 --> 00:19:15,033
And the answer was immediate.

452
00:19:15,043 --> 00:19:18,193
The answer was, you're
the image and likeness.

453
00:19:18,563 --> 00:19:19,743
I'm the original.

454
00:19:20,413 --> 00:19:21,533
Oh, wow.

455
00:19:21,543 --> 00:19:24,693
That's first Genesis
26 and 27, I think.

456
00:19:25,143 --> 00:19:27,453
And I thought,
how cool is that?

457
00:19:27,663 --> 00:19:28,813
There's an original.

458
00:19:29,098 --> 00:19:31,018
And I'm but the
image and likeness.

459
00:19:31,498 --> 00:19:33,128
So that was so cool.

460
00:19:33,668 --> 00:19:36,138
And this whole thing just
went on and on and on.

461
00:19:36,138 --> 00:19:38,908
And I remember this piece I
experienced a lot of people

462
00:19:38,908 --> 00:19:42,518
talk about the love they feel
when they have a, an NDE.

463
00:19:42,578 --> 00:19:46,328
And in my experience, I
would say the most pronounced

464
00:19:46,588 --> 00:19:49,768
feeling that I had was
one of peace, a deep.

465
00:19:50,028 --> 00:19:56,578
Peace, because I had had the
love of a good mother, but

466
00:19:56,578 --> 00:19:59,218
I had never, I had always
been very prone to anxiety

467
00:19:59,218 --> 00:20:02,218
and upset and worry and
strife and blah, blah, blah.

468
00:20:02,948 --> 00:20:05,988
But this peace was
almost mystical.

469
00:20:06,358 --> 00:20:09,248
And I remember thinking, I
always wondered what I would

470
00:20:09,248 --> 00:20:12,298
look like with the absence
of anxiety and worry and

471
00:20:12,298 --> 00:20:13,538
angst and fears and woes.

472
00:20:13,538 --> 00:20:15,408
And I thought, I like this.

473
00:20:15,948 --> 00:20:18,188
I like who I am without
all those fears.

474
00:20:18,983 --> 00:20:20,173
And I thought, this is great.

475
00:20:20,473 --> 00:20:21,613
This is really great.

476
00:20:21,933 --> 00:20:24,783
And I did think about the
fact, I felt like so much of

477
00:20:24,823 --> 00:20:29,243
what makes me unique had gone
with me in this transition,

478
00:20:29,273 --> 00:20:31,083
because you always wonder,
you know, what, what do we

479
00:20:31,083 --> 00:20:33,853
take with us and what leaves,
what do we leave behind?

480
00:20:34,583 --> 00:20:36,713
And I thought about the
fact that what went with

481
00:20:36,713 --> 00:20:41,423
me was this peace and
this deep settled calm.

482
00:20:41,718 --> 00:20:43,488
And joy, so much joy.

483
00:20:43,508 --> 00:20:44,468
I was so happy.

484
00:20:44,818 --> 00:20:47,038
You know, my whole life
I've kept a daily gratitude

485
00:20:47,218 --> 00:20:49,398
list of five things
for which I'm grateful.

486
00:20:50,788 --> 00:20:53,168
And I kept thinking, I'm
so grateful it's over.

487
00:20:53,338 --> 00:20:55,268
I'm so grateful to be
leaving this place.

488
00:20:55,308 --> 00:20:56,828
I'm so grateful.

489
00:20:58,758 --> 00:20:59,368
I was.

490
00:20:59,538 --> 00:21:01,178
I really was very,
very grateful.

491
00:21:01,658 --> 00:21:04,848
And, and I thought,
what did I leave behind?

492
00:21:05,248 --> 00:21:09,518
And I left behind regret, the
guilt, the worry, the woe,

493
00:21:09,568 --> 00:21:11,078
and all the negative emotions.

494
00:21:11,118 --> 00:21:12,698
That did not come with me.

495
00:21:13,688 --> 00:21:15,848
And this experience, as I
said, it just went on and

496
00:21:15,858 --> 00:21:18,978
on, and then at some point I
was no longer floating, and I

497
00:21:18,988 --> 00:21:22,438
don't remember the transition,
but I was on my own two feet.

498
00:21:22,488 --> 00:21:24,798
Which is also pretty
interesting, because I wish

499
00:21:24,798 --> 00:21:26,778
I'd looked to see what they
look like, and I didn't.

500
00:21:26,808 --> 00:21:30,118
But I was on my two feet, now
I was in a white room, and in

501
00:21:30,118 --> 00:21:34,318
this white room there was this
mist falling all around me.

502
00:21:34,908 --> 00:21:39,078
And it was, uh, Almost like
a pea soup fog, but the

503
00:21:39,078 --> 00:21:40,888
room was very, very white.

504
00:21:40,898 --> 00:21:43,498
It had white walls and
white ceiling and white

505
00:21:43,498 --> 00:21:44,788
floor and white everything.

506
00:21:45,418 --> 00:21:48,278
And through the mist or the
fog, I saw a door in front

507
00:21:48,278 --> 00:21:51,448
of me, maybe, I don't know,
15 to 20 feet in front of me.

508
00:21:52,218 --> 00:21:54,768
And I remember thinking, Oh,
I, I know what that door is.

509
00:21:55,058 --> 00:21:56,508
That door is where I exit.

510
00:21:56,733 --> 00:22:00,583
That door is where I go on and
I don't come back to earth.

511
00:22:00,603 --> 00:22:03,423
That door is the, the
line of demarcation, the

512
00:22:03,423 --> 00:22:06,373
boundary where I cross
over to the, to heaven.

513
00:22:07,273 --> 00:22:10,093
And I pretty much
felt like, okay, clear

514
00:22:10,093 --> 00:22:11,383
path, doing a door.

515
00:22:13,103 --> 00:22:17,193
And as I walked toward that
door, an angelic being,

516
00:22:17,383 --> 00:22:20,468
different from the first one,
But an angelic being talked

517
00:22:20,478 --> 00:22:25,358
to me, and the angelic being
told me, and I don't remember

518
00:22:25,558 --> 00:22:28,938
precisely the means in which
this was communicated, but

519
00:22:28,948 --> 00:22:32,998
the angelic being told me
that if I agreed to earth,

520
00:22:33,158 --> 00:22:35,408
I'd be restored to wholeness.

521
00:22:36,328 --> 00:22:39,688
And she didn't say healed
of this nasty disease

522
00:22:39,708 --> 00:22:43,118
process or the horrible
grief will be gone.

523
00:22:43,558 --> 00:22:45,418
It was just restored
to wholeness.

524
00:22:46,248 --> 00:22:48,988
And that was like,
okay, that's fine,

525
00:22:49,098 --> 00:22:50,078
but I'm going to heaven.

526
00:22:51,898 --> 00:22:53,438
I have a zero interest, man.

527
00:22:53,838 --> 00:22:54,978
Cause you know, the
other thing I thought

528
00:22:54,978 --> 00:22:55,818
about, no kidding.

529
00:22:55,818 --> 00:22:59,288
I thought, I thought it
was kind of funny that I

530
00:22:59,298 --> 00:23:01,778
had pretty much nothing
to do with doctors.

531
00:23:02,818 --> 00:23:05,718
And here, this was my
first interaction with

532
00:23:05,718 --> 00:23:06,678
the medical world.

533
00:23:07,223 --> 00:23:08,213
And they killed me.

534
00:23:09,573 --> 00:23:12,953
My first surgery, my
first pretty much of

535
00:23:12,953 --> 00:23:14,783
anything, and I was dead.

536
00:23:14,783 --> 00:23:17,093
And I remember thinking
there was a certain irony in

537
00:23:17,093 --> 00:23:18,773
this, that here I am dead.

538
00:23:19,173 --> 00:23:20,523
And I also remember
thinking, won't every,

539
00:23:20,833 --> 00:23:23,433
won't everyone be surprised
at how this turned out?

540
00:23:24,753 --> 00:23:25,623
I was surprised.

541
00:23:27,123 --> 00:23:28,433
I knew everyone
else would be too.

542
00:23:29,113 --> 00:23:34,813
So, as I approached the
door, I did ask, I mean, I

543
00:23:34,813 --> 00:23:37,693
actually put my right hand
up to push through the door.

544
00:23:37,693 --> 00:23:39,603
I was a little mythic
because the door was shut.

545
00:23:39,683 --> 00:23:42,023
I thought the door should
be open, you know, but the

546
00:23:42,023 --> 00:23:44,633
door was shut, but I put my
right hand up to push through

547
00:23:44,633 --> 00:23:48,583
the door, interested by the
fact, right handed on earth,

548
00:23:48,583 --> 00:23:49,563
right handed in heaven.

549
00:23:49,563 --> 00:23:51,343
I thought, huh, something
else came with me

550
00:23:51,343 --> 00:23:52,143
is right handedness.

551
00:23:52,143 --> 00:23:54,623
I mean, it's just so
cool that who we are does

552
00:23:54,623 --> 00:23:56,113
make this transition.

553
00:23:56,853 --> 00:24:01,513
And as I did this, I paused
and I asked the angelic

554
00:24:01,543 --> 00:24:04,033
being or the spiritual
being that was with me.

555
00:24:04,588 --> 00:24:06,918
Quite bluntly, I just said,
is this the divine will

556
00:24:06,918 --> 00:24:09,948
for my life that a medical
mistake takes me out?

557
00:24:11,088 --> 00:24:14,138
And I couldn't even get
past, is this the divine?

558
00:24:14,298 --> 00:24:18,348
I only got those words
out and the answer was

559
00:24:18,518 --> 00:24:20,328
seemingly to me telepathic.

560
00:24:20,358 --> 00:24:21,978
The answer was like confused.

561
00:24:21,978 --> 00:24:24,418
It wasn't, here are some
words to answer that question.

562
00:24:24,428 --> 00:24:27,008
It was like, boom,
here, here's everything.

563
00:24:27,548 --> 00:24:30,328
But the answer was, no,
this is not the divine

564
00:24:30,328 --> 00:24:31,278
will for your life.

565
00:24:31,678 --> 00:24:34,973
But whatever you decide, If
you decide to go back, or

566
00:24:34,973 --> 00:24:38,303
you decide to go forward,
you go with all of God's

567
00:24:38,303 --> 00:24:41,893
grace, and mercy, and love,
and kindness, and care.

568
00:24:42,813 --> 00:24:45,283
And that was a pretty
specific answer to that

569
00:24:45,313 --> 00:24:48,313
prayer of, I can't handle
any more hard decisions.

570
00:24:49,043 --> 00:24:51,343
Because God was saying,
actually the specific

571
00:24:53,233 --> 00:24:57,248
inference was, either way,
You'll be richly blessed.

572
00:24:58,958 --> 00:25:03,108
And the thing I can't explain
is that when you're in

573
00:25:03,108 --> 00:25:07,218
that place, all you really
want to do is glorify God.

574
00:25:07,818 --> 00:25:09,948
And that's why I paused
to ask the question.

575
00:25:10,258 --> 00:25:12,588
I just wanted to do what
God wanted me to do.

576
00:25:12,588 --> 00:25:15,548
I didn't want to step off
the path of the plan of

577
00:25:15,548 --> 00:25:16,748
God's will for my life.

578
00:25:16,748 --> 00:25:19,548
And so that was a big deal.

579
00:25:20,288 --> 00:25:24,738
So then I thought, okay,
if either way, it's good.

580
00:25:24,988 --> 00:25:25,958
I'm leaving.

581
00:25:26,078 --> 00:25:27,828
I'm so out of here.

582
00:25:27,848 --> 00:25:29,168
I'm so done with this.

583
00:25:30,158 --> 00:25:35,618
And then, uh, I was given a
vision of this nurse that had

584
00:25:35,618 --> 00:25:38,228
been so motherly to me while
I was still on that gurney

585
00:25:38,228 --> 00:25:41,918
on that little, uh, in that
little cubicle in that ER.

586
00:25:42,488 --> 00:25:44,238
Things weren't looking
good and I remember I

587
00:25:44,248 --> 00:25:45,628
grabbed this nurse's hand.

588
00:25:45,628 --> 00:25:48,418
She was an RN as the doctor
was attending to me and this

589
00:25:48,418 --> 00:25:51,218
was before I passed out,
before I got the morphine.

590
00:25:51,888 --> 00:25:53,598
I grabbed her hand and I
said, promise me you're

591
00:25:53,598 --> 00:25:54,718
not going to let me die.

592
00:25:55,558 --> 00:25:57,888
Because one thing I've read
about bleeding to death is

593
00:25:57,888 --> 00:26:01,118
the brain consumes, I think
it's 70 percent of the oxygen.

594
00:26:01,118 --> 00:26:05,278
The brain is a big energy
user and when people bleed to

595
00:26:05,278 --> 00:26:10,653
death, one of the Symptoms is
anxiety and kind of a panic

596
00:26:10,653 --> 00:26:11,573
because you can't reason.

597
00:26:11,703 --> 00:26:13,433
Things aren't working like
they ought to be working.

598
00:26:14,303 --> 00:26:18,933
So, that nurse had taken
my hand, I was crying,

599
00:26:19,053 --> 00:26:21,633
lying on a gurney crying,
and she took my hand and

600
00:26:21,633 --> 00:26:24,833
she said, Oh, honey, we're
not going to let you die.

601
00:26:24,923 --> 00:26:26,763
We have many
solutions for this.

602
00:26:27,283 --> 00:26:28,933
And I thought, okay.

603
00:26:29,083 --> 00:26:30,973
She sounds like she knows
what she's talking about.

604
00:26:31,313 --> 00:26:33,403
But then as I'm at this
door in this heavenly

605
00:26:33,413 --> 00:26:38,368
place, And I, I think, okay,
if either way I'm richly

606
00:26:38,368 --> 00:26:40,148
blessed, I'm out of here.

607
00:26:40,578 --> 00:26:41,788
I'll take that deal.

608
00:26:41,958 --> 00:26:43,728
I'm so out of this place.

609
00:26:44,338 --> 00:26:45,698
But then that's when
I was given a vision

610
00:26:45,698 --> 00:26:46,628
of the same nurse.

611
00:26:46,658 --> 00:26:49,588
And in this vision, she
was sitting in a hospital

612
00:26:49,938 --> 00:26:52,788
supply room surrounded
by linens and other

613
00:26:52,868 --> 00:26:54,493
medical supplies and such.

614
00:26:55,193 --> 00:26:57,203
She was sitting in the
middle of this small hospital

615
00:26:57,233 --> 00:27:00,873
supply room, leaning forward
on a small metal stool,

616
00:27:01,303 --> 00:27:04,093
head in her hands, and
sobbing uncontrollably.

617
00:27:04,813 --> 00:27:08,603
And I heard her say, through
tears, I promised that woman

618
00:27:08,603 --> 00:27:09,773
I wasn't going to lose her.

619
00:27:10,183 --> 00:27:11,173
And I let her die.

620
00:27:12,553 --> 00:27:14,943
And it was almost like
I was an invisible

621
00:27:14,943 --> 00:27:16,283
witness to this thing.

622
00:27:16,843 --> 00:27:19,293
To say it was a vision
is not strong enough.

623
00:27:19,323 --> 00:27:22,823
It was, I believe I was being
shown a potential future.

624
00:27:23,463 --> 00:27:25,523
And in this potential
future, I was being shown

625
00:27:25,533 --> 00:27:28,623
the pain that my death
would cause this nurse.

626
00:27:29,403 --> 00:27:31,783
Because a lot of people say,
Oh, well, did you tell her

627
00:27:31,783 --> 00:27:32,663
that after you got back?

628
00:27:32,673 --> 00:27:34,993
Which they were busy
in that little cubicle

629
00:27:34,993 --> 00:27:36,403
trying to resuscitate me.

630
00:27:36,763 --> 00:27:39,023
They were busy trying to
get my heart going again.

631
00:27:39,023 --> 00:27:40,723
They weren't off
at a room crying.

632
00:27:41,593 --> 00:27:42,113
Um.

633
00:27:42,348 --> 00:27:44,888
So I saw this nurse in this
vision, again it was like

634
00:27:44,908 --> 00:27:48,918
being a silent witness to
her sadness, and I turned

635
00:27:48,918 --> 00:27:52,148
to the spiritual being and I
said, you know, she's about

636
00:27:52,148 --> 00:27:55,558
my age, surely she's lost
patients before she'll get

637
00:27:55,558 --> 00:27:57,568
over this, but I need to go.

638
00:27:58,028 --> 00:28:00,238
I don't want to go back to
this earthly experience.

639
00:28:00,868 --> 00:28:02,628
The grief occasioned
by my husband's

640
00:28:02,628 --> 00:28:04,208
suicide was torturous.

641
00:28:04,708 --> 00:28:07,608
The grief, the loss of
friends, losing my marital

642
00:28:07,608 --> 00:28:11,208
home to what started out
as a foreclosure process,

643
00:28:11,358 --> 00:28:15,048
it just was too much, too
much for any human to bear

644
00:28:15,258 --> 00:28:16,738
and ever want to go back.

645
00:28:17,458 --> 00:28:21,468
So, uh, then I thought,
okay, we settled that.

646
00:28:21,598 --> 00:28:22,338
I want to go.

647
00:28:23,048 --> 00:28:25,618
But then I was shown
A different thing.

648
00:28:26,188 --> 00:28:28,078
I didn't just see
that nurse sobbing.

649
00:28:29,288 --> 00:28:33,548
I felt her pain in my, I
guess in my center of my being

650
00:28:33,548 --> 00:28:35,078
the very core of my being.

651
00:28:35,918 --> 00:28:38,888
And it was a wave of
grief that, that deep

652
00:28:38,888 --> 00:28:43,618
grief that just, just
destroys you emotionally.

653
00:28:44,958 --> 00:28:49,768
And I remember thinking, oh,
I remember thinking if I can

654
00:28:49,768 --> 00:28:53,878
spare one person that much
grief and emotional agony.

655
00:28:54,138 --> 00:28:57,438
I guess I need to go
back and I put my right

656
00:28:57,438 --> 00:28:59,138
hand back down by my side

657
00:29:00,118 --> 00:29:04,988
and I was like, oh, I
guess I got to do this.

658
00:29:06,068 --> 00:29:08,348
And in a millisecond, I
was back in that body.

659
00:29:08,348 --> 00:29:09,418
There was no whoosh.

660
00:29:09,428 --> 00:29:11,048
There was no going
backwards through a tunnel.

661
00:29:11,048 --> 00:29:11,858
There was none of that.

662
00:29:11,858 --> 00:29:13,288
I was just back in that body.

663
00:29:14,168 --> 00:29:16,878
And when I opened my eyes,
I was like, ah, crap.

664
00:29:18,028 --> 00:29:19,318
I thought we're going to
have a little discussion

665
00:29:19,328 --> 00:29:20,288
about this, maybe.

666
00:29:20,288 --> 00:29:23,268
I didn't think we were just
going to go right back, but

667
00:29:24,258 --> 00:29:26,408
I don't know if it's the same
nurse or not, but there was

668
00:29:26,408 --> 00:29:29,498
a nurse right in my face as
soon as I opened my eyes and

669
00:29:29,498 --> 00:29:31,778
she said, what is your name?

670
00:29:32,328 --> 00:29:33,398
And I said, Rosemary.

671
00:29:33,398 --> 00:29:34,648
And she said, what year is it?

672
00:29:34,788 --> 00:29:36,108
And I said, 2018.

673
00:29:36,448 --> 00:29:37,408
Where are you?

674
00:29:37,888 --> 00:29:40,268
And I said, a crummy
excuse for an ER.

675
00:29:41,658 --> 00:29:41,888
Rod Bland: ha.

676
00:29:43,508 --> 00:29:43,808
Rosemary Thornton: Oops.

677
00:29:45,158 --> 00:29:46,258
The fact is, uh.

678
00:29:46,493 --> 00:29:48,853
I had been gone for
more than 10 minutes,

679
00:29:49,633 --> 00:29:51,513
and there's always the
question, at what point

680
00:29:51,513 --> 00:29:53,623
do you stop trying to
resuscitate somebody?

681
00:29:54,033 --> 00:29:56,803
And the medical belief is
that after five to six minutes

682
00:29:56,803 --> 00:30:00,423
without oxygen to the brain,
uh, the brain will start

683
00:30:00,423 --> 00:30:01,823
dying off very quickly.

684
00:30:02,383 --> 00:30:04,293
And the other interesting
thing, because I did interview

685
00:30:04,293 --> 00:30:06,653
some medical personnel to
write my book, and the other

686
00:30:06,653 --> 00:30:09,313
interesting thing I learned is
when somebody dies of bleeding

687
00:30:09,323 --> 00:30:11,273
to death, you can't do CPR.

688
00:30:12,053 --> 00:30:15,063
Because as you pound on
their chest or you do chest

689
00:30:15,113 --> 00:30:17,293
compressions, you're just
pushing more blood out.

690
00:30:17,963 --> 00:30:21,163
And as an ER doctor told
me, he was very gracious

691
00:30:21,193 --> 00:30:22,403
to let me interview him.

692
00:30:22,403 --> 00:30:25,733
But as he said, when you have
somebody that dies, I mean,

693
00:30:25,733 --> 00:30:27,733
what happens is your heart
stops, the heart's a pump.

694
00:30:27,993 --> 00:30:30,143
And when it runs out
of fluid, you're out.

695
00:30:30,753 --> 00:30:31,558
But he said.

696
00:30:31,988 --> 00:30:35,528
Plug the leak, refill the
tank, and restart the heart.

697
00:30:35,648 --> 00:30:37,248
That's the order in
which they bring you

698
00:30:37,248 --> 00:30:39,158
back, which I thought
was pretty interesting.

699
00:30:39,938 --> 00:30:41,928
So I was gone for more
than 10 minutes, and you

700
00:30:41,928 --> 00:30:44,828
know, according to medical
ideas, I should have

701
00:30:44,828 --> 00:30:46,078
been pretty compromised.

702
00:30:46,748 --> 00:30:47,878
Uh, I don't think I am.

703
00:30:47,879 --> 00:30:51,068
I have trouble remembering
stuff sometimes.

704
00:30:51,748 --> 00:30:53,338
But the other thing that
happened, and it took

705
00:30:53,338 --> 00:30:54,998
some time, I was in the
hospital for a handful of

706
00:30:54,998 --> 00:30:57,938
days, but the other thing
that happened is, uh, I

707
00:30:57,938 --> 00:31:00,818
went back to my oncologist
and I said, Good news.

708
00:31:01,038 --> 00:31:02,278
I was healed in heaven.

709
00:31:02,738 --> 00:31:04,778
We don't have to worry
about that chemo.

710
00:31:04,788 --> 00:31:07,068
We don't have to worry about
those radiation treatments.

711
00:31:07,538 --> 00:31:08,348
I'm all set.

712
00:31:08,918 --> 00:31:09,718
Nice knowing you.

713
00:31:11,298 --> 00:31:14,048
And, uh, he wrote, uh,
mentally ill on my chart.

714
00:31:14,248 --> 00:31:16,298
They do these patient
portal things now, so you

715
00:31:16,298 --> 00:31:18,288
can go online and see what
they're writing about you.

716
00:31:18,288 --> 00:31:18,818
And I did.

717
00:31:18,898 --> 00:31:20,748
He said, mentally ill.

718
00:31:20,848 --> 00:31:21,368
Rod Bland: Ha ha.

719
00:31:22,168 --> 00:31:22,618
That's it.

720
00:31:22,648 --> 00:31:23,228
Mentally ill.

721
00:31:23,228 --> 00:31:24,268
That was all he had to say.

722
00:31:25,193 --> 00:31:27,003
Rosemary Thornton: Yeah,
well, he said some other

723
00:31:27,003 --> 00:31:28,813
stuff and to his credit,

724
00:31:29,813 --> 00:31:33,153
he and his office called
me repeatedly for the

725
00:31:33,153 --> 00:31:36,583
next few weeks and urged
me to begin the chemo and

726
00:31:36,583 --> 00:31:39,583
radiation and said, you're
going to die a terrible

727
00:31:39,583 --> 00:31:42,483
death, you know, the whole,
we caught it early thing.

728
00:31:43,413 --> 00:31:46,163
And so I had to go, I had
to find another oncologist

729
00:31:46,183 --> 00:31:49,383
in another part of the state
because nobody wanted to go

730
00:31:49,383 --> 00:31:51,303
against this, this one doctor.

731
00:31:51,683 --> 00:31:54,503
And say, yeah, we'll
take you as a patient.

732
00:31:54,513 --> 00:31:56,123
We'll just forget
about that guy.

733
00:31:56,533 --> 00:31:59,953
So I did go to another
doctor and, uh, and there

734
00:31:59,953 --> 00:32:02,303
was a second surgery
to make sure, you know,

735
00:32:02,303 --> 00:32:03,723
but she was very good.

736
00:32:03,763 --> 00:32:07,403
And anyway, she was, uh,
she was a remarkable doctor

737
00:32:07,403 --> 00:32:09,753
and she took a lot of
flesh from a lot of places.

738
00:32:10,463 --> 00:32:14,603
She said she had to be sure,
but she actually greeted my

739
00:32:14,603 --> 00:32:16,633
friend who was again in the
waiting room, waiting for

740
00:32:16,643 --> 00:32:17,953
me to come out of surgery.

741
00:32:18,113 --> 00:32:21,483
She, this doctor who did
a second surgical biopsy,

742
00:32:22,093 --> 00:32:25,053
he said she trotted up to
him pretty quickly, threw

743
00:32:25,053 --> 00:32:27,453
her arms around his neck
and said, she's right.

744
00:32:27,483 --> 00:32:29,483
There's not one
cell of cancer left.

745
00:32:29,663 --> 00:32:30,583
Not one cell.

746
00:32:30,613 --> 00:32:33,843
She said, in fact, what she
said was her flesh is so

747
00:32:33,843 --> 00:32:35,253
pink and pretty and perfect.

748
00:32:35,658 --> 00:32:38,108
I wouldn't believe she ever
had cancer unless I'd seen

749
00:32:38,108 --> 00:32:39,698
the test in the first place.

750
00:32:40,258 --> 00:32:41,748
So that was pretty cool.

751
00:32:42,148 --> 00:32:44,858
So, you know, a lot of
people say I get all

752
00:32:44,858 --> 00:32:46,028
the same questions.

753
00:32:46,198 --> 00:32:48,068
A lot of people say,
well, one, how do we know

754
00:32:48,068 --> 00:32:49,198
you're not making this up?

755
00:32:49,578 --> 00:32:52,798
My experience was
so non traditional.

756
00:32:52,868 --> 00:32:54,358
I didn't get a tunnel.

757
00:32:55,038 --> 00:32:57,458
I didn't get a field
of wildflowers.

758
00:32:57,578 --> 00:32:59,388
I didn't see loved ones.

759
00:32:59,713 --> 00:33:03,493
I didn't get any of the
normal things that people get.

760
00:33:04,233 --> 00:33:06,053
And secondly, they
say, how do you know it

761
00:33:06,053 --> 00:33:07,493
wasn't a hallucination?

762
00:33:08,363 --> 00:33:11,793
And the way I know is because
when I died, I was a mess.

763
00:33:12,083 --> 00:33:14,013
When I came back, I
came back different.

764
00:33:14,373 --> 00:33:16,623
In fact, and this is an
aside, I don't know if I've

765
00:33:16,623 --> 00:33:19,903
ever shared this in a podcast
before, but at the time of

766
00:33:19,903 --> 00:33:23,263
my death, I had glaucoma
and I had already lost 15

767
00:33:23,263 --> 00:33:24,773
percent of my optic nerve.

768
00:33:25,483 --> 00:33:27,293
Well, took about a
year before I actually

769
00:33:27,293 --> 00:33:28,653
went back to a doctor.

770
00:33:28,848 --> 00:33:32,568
But he said, you don't have
glaucoma and your optic nerve

771
00:33:32,568 --> 00:33:33,898
is that of a young person.

772
00:33:34,408 --> 00:33:36,918
So a lot of things happened
in that experience.

773
00:33:37,358 --> 00:33:40,678
And there's, there's a lot
more, but the big healing, the

774
00:33:40,678 --> 00:33:45,428
real healing for me was I felt
like I was given a reset over

775
00:33:45,428 --> 00:33:47,318
my husband's messy ending.

776
00:33:47,918 --> 00:33:49,408
I forgave myself.

777
00:33:50,138 --> 00:33:51,488
I forgave him.

778
00:33:52,178 --> 00:33:55,068
I forgave the people who
deserted me, the people

779
00:33:55,068 --> 00:33:56,358
who just disappeared.

780
00:33:56,948 --> 00:33:59,468
I was able to just
really forgive everyone,

781
00:33:59,468 --> 00:34:01,098
but mainly myself.

782
00:34:01,268 --> 00:34:04,228
I had been so hard on myself.

783
00:34:04,478 --> 00:34:06,288
I felt like I didn't
deserve to live.

784
00:34:07,218 --> 00:34:08,918
I just felt so terrible.

785
00:34:09,738 --> 00:34:12,308
And something the angels
told me was that all of

786
00:34:12,308 --> 00:34:14,828
the ugliness and the mess
and the difficulty of his

787
00:34:14,828 --> 00:34:16,588
death had been encapsulated.

788
00:34:17,088 --> 00:34:18,628
And it couldn't
hurt me anymore.

789
00:34:18,718 --> 00:34:20,098
And it wouldn't hurt me again.

790
00:34:20,763 --> 00:34:23,203
and that was so immensely
comforting because my

791
00:34:23,203 --> 00:34:26,153
background is actually in
architectural history and

792
00:34:26,153 --> 00:34:28,933
when you're removing a
contaminant from a historic

793
00:34:28,953 --> 00:34:32,573
structure or a building of
any kind really sometimes

794
00:34:32,573 --> 00:34:34,873
it's better to encapsulate
it rather than try to pull

795
00:34:34,873 --> 00:34:37,803
it out because sometimes in
the removal of a contaminant

796
00:34:38,043 --> 00:34:40,793
you end up dispersing more
of it into the air than if

797
00:34:40,793 --> 00:34:43,483
you just left it undisturbed
and had encapsulated it so

798
00:34:43,483 --> 00:34:47,998
that's what the angels told
me was this whole difficult

799
00:34:48,268 --> 00:34:51,218
and horrific experience
had been encapsulated

800
00:34:51,998 --> 00:34:53,558
and it couldn't hurt me.

801
00:34:53,638 --> 00:34:54,678
And that was huge.

802
00:34:54,708 --> 00:34:58,218
And as the days went on and
on, I forgave myself more and

803
00:34:58,218 --> 00:35:00,868
more because I had been in
the habit of hating myself.

804
00:35:01,258 --> 00:35:03,168
I've been in the habit
of being angry at him

805
00:35:03,418 --> 00:35:04,758
and hating myself.

806
00:35:05,058 --> 00:35:07,558
And even just breaking
that habit when I'd say,

807
00:35:08,908 --> 00:35:10,468
how could I be so stupid?

808
00:35:11,048 --> 00:35:12,128
I thought he loved me.

809
00:35:12,568 --> 00:35:14,418
And I would stop and I'd
say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

810
00:35:15,138 --> 00:35:16,458
We're not gonna
say that anymore.

811
00:35:17,198 --> 00:35:20,838
You loved him, you
loved, and that's okay.

812
00:35:21,278 --> 00:35:22,748
It certainly didn't
go the way you wanted.

813
00:35:22,748 --> 00:35:25,568
But this life is so temporary
and I think one of the

814
00:35:25,568 --> 00:35:28,058
reasons, you know, we're,
we're at 70 to 80 years before

815
00:35:28,058 --> 00:35:31,268
we get to leave this place, as
my friend calls it, the, uh,

816
00:35:31,298 --> 00:35:33,008
ball shaped and insane asylum.

817
00:35:33,978 --> 00:35:35,628
I think it's because
we get a reset.

818
00:35:36,478 --> 00:35:39,598
You know, life is hard
and I, I don't, I, as I

819
00:35:39,598 --> 00:35:41,848
recall, you've heard my
story before, but one of the

820
00:35:41,848 --> 00:35:43,468
things that happened when
I was in that hospital bed.

821
00:35:43,878 --> 00:35:47,288
Waiting to recover was
when my friends would leave

822
00:35:47,298 --> 00:35:48,898
because, you know, it's good
to have friends with you when

823
00:35:48,898 --> 00:35:50,858
you're in a hospital, make
sure they don't, you know,

824
00:35:50,998 --> 00:35:53,268
wheel you away for a kidney
transplant or something.

825
00:35:53,688 --> 00:35:55,628
And my friends were with me
and when my friends would

826
00:35:55,628 --> 00:35:58,628
step away to go get a bite
to eat or to go do something,

827
00:36:00,008 --> 00:36:02,368
the angels would surround
my bedside and they would

828
00:36:02,368 --> 00:36:05,988
sing to me and they sang me
the most beautiful songs.

829
00:36:06,868 --> 00:36:10,308
And I, I told them, I said,
look, I'm really good with

830
00:36:10,308 --> 00:36:12,188
houses, but melody and lyrics.

831
00:36:12,608 --> 00:36:14,648
I'm really, I don't think
I'll be able to remember this.

832
00:36:14,648 --> 00:36:17,668
I don't want to forget
a note or a word of what

833
00:36:17,668 --> 00:36:18,748
you're singing to me.

834
00:36:19,718 --> 00:36:21,778
And they said, this isn't
for you to remember.

835
00:36:22,118 --> 00:36:23,238
This is for your peace.

836
00:36:23,768 --> 00:36:25,058
This is for your joy.

837
00:36:25,418 --> 00:36:26,538
This is for your healing.

838
00:36:27,118 --> 00:36:29,758
This is a thank you for
agreeing to come back.

839
00:36:30,288 --> 00:36:33,058
And they said, we know that
life on this earth is hard.

840
00:36:33,558 --> 00:36:35,278
So this is a gift for you.

841
00:36:35,279 --> 00:36:38,268
And I used to say, you know,
we tend to say, I'll remember

842
00:36:38,268 --> 00:36:39,688
something until my dying day.

843
00:36:40,288 --> 00:36:43,198
I know that I will remember
that singing for eternity.

844
00:36:43,998 --> 00:36:45,488
It was so incredible.

845
00:36:46,098 --> 00:36:47,808
And sometimes I
just heard a prayer.

846
00:36:47,808 --> 00:36:50,028
Somebody sent me, I get
the most, sometimes I get

847
00:36:50,028 --> 00:36:51,138
really beautiful emails.

848
00:36:51,348 --> 00:36:53,218
Sometimes I get not
so beautiful emails,

849
00:36:53,768 --> 00:36:55,398
but for the most part,
they're really lovely.

850
00:36:55,948 --> 00:36:58,438
But somebody said when
they're feeling very alone

851
00:36:58,618 --> 00:37:02,258
and very frightened, their
prayer is for the angels.

852
00:37:03,298 --> 00:37:05,008
I don't know who's
on duty, but I need

853
00:37:05,008 --> 00:37:05,828
some help right now.

854
00:37:08,548 --> 00:37:10,418
And I think that's a
very powerful prayer.

855
00:37:11,098 --> 00:37:12,408
And one of the things
I learned through this

856
00:37:12,408 --> 00:37:18,808
experience is that, um, We,
God doesn't just love us, but

857
00:37:18,808 --> 00:37:20,148
God really, really likes us.

858
00:37:20,398 --> 00:37:21,658
And we don't have
to earn that love.

859
00:37:22,318 --> 00:37:24,138
God doesn't say, you
know, when you stop being

860
00:37:24,138 --> 00:37:27,988
a weirdo and a freak,
we'll talk about love.

861
00:37:28,708 --> 00:37:31,488
No, you know, if I could sum
up the whole experience of

862
00:37:31,488 --> 00:37:34,698
dying and going to heaven
and all the et ceteras that

863
00:37:34,718 --> 00:37:38,318
have, that occurred in that
heavenly experience, it

864
00:37:38,318 --> 00:37:41,418
would be three words, which
are welcome home, dearie.

865
00:37:41,978 --> 00:37:43,548
I felt like I was
with my tribe.

866
00:37:44,028 --> 00:37:47,818
I no longer felt like a, an
outlier, like an oddball.

867
00:37:48,288 --> 00:37:50,678
I felt like I had found
my tribe and they were so

868
00:37:50,678 --> 00:37:52,098
grateful to see me again.

869
00:37:52,418 --> 00:37:54,418
So grateful that I
made it safely back.

870
00:37:55,078 --> 00:37:57,578
So I'm really, some days
more than others, I'm very

871
00:37:57,588 --> 00:38:02,838
fuzzy on what I'm doing
here because dying is hard.

872
00:38:05,558 --> 00:38:09,248
It is a hard experience.

873
00:38:09,708 --> 00:38:10,448
Was for me.

874
00:38:11,168 --> 00:38:13,688
So, and this has been five
and a half years, pushing six

875
00:38:13,688 --> 00:38:17,208
years now since my NDE or my
temporary death experience.

876
00:38:18,608 --> 00:38:21,858
And people seem to think
I'm some sort of shaman

877
00:38:21,858 --> 00:38:23,248
or ascended master.

878
00:38:23,268 --> 00:38:24,278
I am not.

879
00:38:24,828 --> 00:38:27,098
I still cry the night
before I go to the dentist.

880
00:38:27,098 --> 00:38:29,058
I still have arguments
with people I love.

881
00:38:29,058 --> 00:38:30,928
I still, I still have issues.

882
00:38:30,928 --> 00:38:35,568
I still have occasional
nightmares, but this, the

883
00:38:35,568 --> 00:38:38,728
horror of my husband's
suicide was lifted off of

884
00:38:38,768 --> 00:38:42,638
me and the, the sickness
that came along with that.

885
00:38:42,863 --> 00:38:44,163
was lifted off of me.

886
00:38:44,963 --> 00:38:48,413
And one of the things I
was told when I came back

887
00:38:48,413 --> 00:38:50,963
from this, every now and
then I'd be really, really

888
00:38:50,993 --> 00:38:54,483
frightened that, oh no, what
if the disease comes back?

889
00:38:55,153 --> 00:38:58,153
But one of the things the
angels told me that touched

890
00:38:58,153 --> 00:39:02,243
me so deeply was she said,
these things don't fade,

891
00:39:02,983 --> 00:39:06,973
that God's things, the things
of God don't fade away.

892
00:39:07,473 --> 00:39:08,743
They're always there.

893
00:39:09,533 --> 00:39:12,263
And I remember I was, I, you
know, the first few months

894
00:39:12,423 --> 00:39:14,733
after I came back from this,
I did have a little panic

895
00:39:14,733 --> 00:39:17,583
attacks over, you know, what
if, what if I get sick again?

896
00:39:17,603 --> 00:39:21,963
And I was passing this
carwash and the carwash said,

897
00:39:21,963 --> 00:39:23,853
clean, shine and protect.

898
00:39:24,393 --> 00:39:26,958
And I heard a little angel
voice say, that's what.

899
00:39:27,118 --> 00:39:28,568
That's what we did for you.

900
00:39:28,658 --> 00:39:31,248
You were cleaned, you
got shined and buffed,

901
00:39:31,668 --> 00:39:33,048
and now you're protected.

902
00:39:33,378 --> 00:39:35,438
And you know, one of the
things I neglected to mention

903
00:39:35,448 --> 00:39:38,228
is I haven't, I haven't been
on a podcast in two months,

904
00:39:38,228 --> 00:39:39,488
two months or maybe three.

905
00:39:40,088 --> 00:39:43,168
Uh, when I was in that white
room and walking through

906
00:39:43,168 --> 00:39:47,618
the room and getting to that
door, there was this, this,

907
00:39:47,778 --> 00:39:51,228
uh, this fog or this mist was
actually swirling around me.

908
00:39:51,523 --> 00:39:53,383
actively swirling around me.

909
00:39:53,983 --> 00:39:56,363
And I had asked the angelic
being that accompanied

910
00:39:56,363 --> 00:39:58,763
me, I said, what, I feel
like I ought to be able

911
00:39:58,763 --> 00:40:00,983
to focus on an individual
droplet of this mist.

912
00:40:01,053 --> 00:40:03,643
Which, next time you're in
a fog, think about focusing

913
00:40:03,883 --> 00:40:05,533
on an individual droplet.

914
00:40:05,543 --> 00:40:06,373
It's kind of nuts.

915
00:40:07,003 --> 00:40:10,878
But what the angel told
me was, um, Those are

916
00:40:10,878 --> 00:40:14,118
particles of light, and
your eyes haven't acclimated

917
00:40:14,118 --> 00:40:15,488
to this experience yet.

918
00:40:16,258 --> 00:40:18,568
But what you're seeing are
particles of light, and it

919
00:40:18,568 --> 00:40:23,078
was likened to a spiritual
car wash that I was being

920
00:40:23,248 --> 00:40:28,688
cleaned, and all the muck of
the earth was washed away.

921
00:40:29,058 --> 00:40:33,718
And I was told that when we
go to heaven, Some people

922
00:40:33,718 --> 00:40:36,458
die with such a disease
process imprinted on their

923
00:40:36,458 --> 00:40:40,548
soul that that muck of earth,
and that was the word that

924
00:40:40,548 --> 00:40:43,918
was used, was the muck of
earth has to be washed away.

925
00:40:44,798 --> 00:40:48,928
And, uh, I've, I liken it to
a spiritual car wash and I

926
00:40:48,928 --> 00:40:50,178
try to do that every morning.

927
00:40:50,178 --> 00:40:52,328
I try to do my spiritual
car wash every morning,

928
00:40:52,328 --> 00:40:55,128
but some mornings I'm like,
eh, we'll skip that today.

929
00:40:56,268 --> 00:40:57,908
So it was a big
deal experience.

930
00:40:57,908 --> 00:40:59,648
And I'm, you know, people
like, well, you must've

931
00:40:59,648 --> 00:41:00,798
come back for a reason.

932
00:41:01,098 --> 00:41:01,568
I don't know.

933
00:41:01,568 --> 00:41:02,278
I got nothing.

934
00:41:03,563 --> 00:41:04,433
I don't know why I'm here.

935
00:41:06,928 --> 00:41:10,698
Rod Bland: Well, here's my
experience of you coming back,

936
00:41:10,698 --> 00:41:14,078
telling your story, Rosemary,
is it, There was, I got to

937
00:41:14,078 --> 00:41:18,128
laugh and experience some joy
and I think there can never

938
00:41:18,128 --> 00:41:19,578
be too much joy in this world.

939
00:41:19,588 --> 00:41:20,948
So that's one thing,

940
00:41:20,953 --> 00:41:21,993
Rosemary Thornton: Well,
that's a good point.

941
00:41:22,508 --> 00:41:22,828
Rod Bland: yeah,

942
00:41:23,568 --> 00:41:29,018
um, you, you mentioned, uh,
when you were floating in

943
00:41:29,018 --> 00:41:33,928
the, the sort of soft velvety
void, you said the, you said

944
00:41:33,928 --> 00:41:36,428
she about the presence did
the, that person have like

945
00:41:36,428 --> 00:41:40,658
a feminine aspect to it.

946
00:41:40,813 --> 00:41:42,833
Rosemary Thornton: my book
and they want to go to Amazon

947
00:41:42,833 --> 00:41:45,723
and write a review, please
don't write the review that

948
00:41:45,723 --> 00:41:47,833
says, God is not a woman!

949
00:41:47,913 --> 00:41:49,093
That's blasphemy!

950
00:41:49,153 --> 00:41:49,963
Because you know what?

951
00:41:50,113 --> 00:41:52,323
About a dozen people
already beat you to that.

952
00:41:53,018 --> 00:41:53,388
Rod Bland: Right.

953
00:41:53,808 --> 00:41:54,188
Okay.

954
00:41:54,658 --> 00:41:56,178
Rosemary Thornton: That's the
number one email I get is,

955
00:41:56,198 --> 00:41:58,818
God is not a she, God can't
be a she, and yet if you look

956
00:41:58,828 --> 00:42:01,488
up in the Bible, there's a
lot of references to God in

957
00:42:01,488 --> 00:42:03,138
a maternal, motherly way.

958
00:42:03,318 --> 00:42:06,658
Yes, it did feel to me like
God was motherly, God was

959
00:42:06,698 --> 00:42:10,278
she, using a feminine pronoun
to describe God has really

960
00:42:10,288 --> 00:42:11,598
rattled a bunch of cages.

961
00:42:11,598 --> 00:42:13,268
I had somebody say, if
you want your book to do,

962
00:42:13,478 --> 00:42:15,718
if you want your book to
be a bestseller, Get rid

963
00:42:15,718 --> 00:42:17,308
of this God she business.

964
00:42:17,828 --> 00:42:20,428
But you know, when, when I
was greeted in heaven and

965
00:42:20,428 --> 00:42:22,618
the answer was you're the
image and likeness, I'm

966
00:42:22,618 --> 00:42:25,238
the original, what do they
think I'm going to see?

967
00:42:25,258 --> 00:42:27,748
Some, some, some big old man?

968
00:42:27,828 --> 00:42:29,258
I mean, give me a break.

969
00:42:29,948 --> 00:42:31,858
So yes, I do think
of God as feminine.

970
00:42:33,039 --> 00:42:33,209
Well I'm

971
00:42:33,228 --> 00:42:33,938
Rod Bland: glad
you kept it in.

972
00:42:33,938 --> 00:42:36,378
I haven't read your book, but
now you've said that I'm glad

973
00:42:36,378 --> 00:42:39,798
that you kept it in because
as another one of my guests,

974
00:42:40,358 --> 00:42:45,398
uh, Jason Janis really likes
to go against tradition and

975
00:42:45,398 --> 00:42:47,728
you know what was written
and there's a lot of great

976
00:42:47,728 --> 00:42:49,658
things in the Bible and
there's a lot of things that

977
00:42:49,718 --> 00:42:52,798
you could probably interpret
in different ways as well.

978
00:42:53,888 --> 00:42:56,268
There was something else you
mentioned about the angels

979
00:42:56,268 --> 00:42:58,368
who were singing to you.

980
00:42:58,828 --> 00:43:00,638
And I immediately thought
of my friend Nikki Allen

981
00:43:00,638 --> 00:43:03,638
who is a psychic and she
talks about the Seraphim.

982
00:43:03,918 --> 00:43:05,548
Are you, have you
heard of them before?

983
00:43:07,318 --> 00:43:08,868
Rosemary Thornton: know
what Seraphim is, but,

984
00:43:08,928 --> 00:43:12,478
uh, I'm not familiar with,
uh, that specifically

985
00:43:12,498 --> 00:43:13,348
as you mentioned it.

986
00:43:13,348 --> 00:43:13,608
No.

987
00:43:14,218 --> 00:43:16,428
Rod Bland: Yeah, I can't
say I'm hugely familiar

988
00:43:16,428 --> 00:43:18,088
with them but I just, they
just remind me of those,

989
00:43:18,118 --> 00:43:21,858
the Seraphim are the healing
angels and they sing.

990
00:43:21,888 --> 00:43:24,598
The healing is done by
their, through their singing.

991
00:43:25,328 --> 00:43:26,018
,
Rosemary Thornton: wow.

992
00:43:26,078 --> 00:43:27,338
Well, that's interesting.

993
00:43:27,788 --> 00:43:30,478
I, you know, that
singing business, uh,

994
00:43:30,838 --> 00:43:33,558
I've, I've done, I don't
know, 60 or 70 podcasts.

995
00:43:33,558 --> 00:43:33,858
I don't know.

996
00:43:33,878 --> 00:43:34,538
I've done a bunch,

997
00:43:35,288 --> 00:43:37,988
but for a long time when
I would share this story,

998
00:43:39,513 --> 00:43:41,773
When I would get to the part
about the angels singing,

999
00:43:42,063 --> 00:43:46,183
I would sob because it was
such a profound experience.

1000
00:43:46,393 --> 00:43:48,643
I just, I mean,
I still see them.

1001
00:43:48,693 --> 00:43:50,153
And a lot of people say,
what do they look like?

1002
00:43:50,153 --> 00:43:53,583
And what they were tall
again, but they were, um,

1003
00:43:53,753 --> 00:43:56,443
a human esque form and they
were wearing gowns of light.

1004
00:43:56,953 --> 00:44:00,463
And when they sang their
gowns glowed brighter, their

1005
00:44:00,463 --> 00:44:02,303
songs were glorifying God.

1006
00:44:02,303 --> 00:44:05,508
And as they sang those
Those gowns of light

1007
00:44:05,918 --> 00:44:07,358
just got brighter and
brighter and brighter.

1008
00:44:07,358 --> 00:44:09,698
And I remember very
specifically late one night,

1009
00:44:10,088 --> 00:44:12,728
my friends had left, the
angels were by the bedside,

1010
00:44:13,088 --> 00:44:15,268
a nurse walked in just
to check on me or take

1011
00:44:15,268 --> 00:44:16,608
my vitals or something.

1012
00:44:17,598 --> 00:44:23,333
And, uh, when she did
that, Um, I was so kind of

1013
00:44:23,443 --> 00:44:28,403
spiritually high, I guess,
from the angels voices, that

1014
00:44:28,403 --> 00:44:31,783
that nurse turned to me and
smiled, and it was a genuine

1015
00:44:31,783 --> 00:44:35,993
smile, and I burst into tears,
because it was like she was

1016
00:44:36,003 --> 00:44:41,848
looking at me with love, and
I just felt so Attuned to

1017
00:44:41,848 --> 00:44:45,798
love, so tuned into love that
when she looked at me and

1018
00:44:45,798 --> 00:44:48,898
smiled, I burst into tears
and she said, what's wrong?

1019
00:44:48,908 --> 00:44:49,628
What's the matter?

1020
00:44:49,628 --> 00:44:52,698
And I said, your smile
is so full of love.

1021
00:44:53,538 --> 00:44:55,798
It's just, it's just kind
of get, it's, it's getting

1022
00:44:55,798 --> 00:44:56,688
to me in a good way.

1023
00:44:57,498 --> 00:44:59,958
So I, you know, and I, I
want to live in that place

1024
00:44:59,978 --> 00:45:04,478
all the time and I, I, maybe
we're just not supposed to,

1025
00:45:04,478 --> 00:45:07,268
I mean, how do you live in
that place all the time when

1026
00:45:07,268 --> 00:45:10,608
you have to deal with the
IRS and the DMV and, you

1027
00:45:10,608 --> 00:45:13,128
know, all the frustrations
of life and you take your car

1028
00:45:13,128 --> 00:45:15,498
in for an oil change and it
takes three and a half hours.

1029
00:45:15,798 --> 00:45:18,678
I don't know how you live in
that high holy place with the

1030
00:45:19,118 --> 00:45:20,908
frustrations of everyday life.

1031
00:45:20,978 --> 00:45:22,778
I really, I really
wonder about that.

1032
00:45:23,818 --> 00:45:24,588
I wish I could.

1033
00:45:25,553 --> 00:45:27,473
Rod Bland: There is a lot
of people who have had an

1034
00:45:27,473 --> 00:45:29,973
NDE but don't talk about it.

1035
00:45:29,973 --> 00:45:33,253
I've had guests that have
kept their mouth zipped for 20

1036
00:45:33,263 --> 00:45:36,473
years because they're worried
about what people might say

1037
00:45:36,473 --> 00:45:38,423
or they think they're crazy
or they hallucinate it and

1038
00:45:38,423 --> 00:45:40,913
you mentioned a bit of this
before so for anyone who

1039
00:45:40,913 --> 00:45:43,383
has not talked about their
experience what would you,

1040
00:45:43,433 --> 00:45:44,283
what would you say to them?

1041
00:45:50,808 --> 00:45:52,638
Rosemary Thornton: have people
in my own family who are

1042
00:45:52,658 --> 00:45:55,148
pretty, uh, what's the word?

1043
00:45:55,548 --> 00:45:57,318
They discount the experience.

1044
00:45:58,078 --> 00:45:59,488
And I used to be a reporter.

1045
00:45:59,578 --> 00:46:02,428
I had a job as a reporter
for a handful of years for

1046
00:46:02,428 --> 00:46:03,848
a pretty big newspaper.

1047
00:46:04,658 --> 00:46:07,308
And if I thought somebody
was talking crazy.

1048
00:46:08,273 --> 00:46:11,503
I would say, so what dates
were you in the hospital?

1049
00:46:12,613 --> 00:46:13,633
What exactly happened?

1050
00:46:14,553 --> 00:46:16,553
What were your vitals
before that happened?

1051
00:46:16,913 --> 00:46:18,323
Who, what was the
blood work like?

1052
00:46:18,353 --> 00:46:19,463
I mean, I would ask questions.

1053
00:46:19,783 --> 00:46:24,713
I remember I was sent to
interview a lady and I don't

1054
00:46:24,713 --> 00:46:27,253
know, I can't even remember
how this unfolded, but I was

1055
00:46:27,293 --> 00:46:30,243
sent to interview, I think,
I think I was interviewing

1056
00:46:30,243 --> 00:46:31,413
her because she was homeless.

1057
00:46:31,503 --> 00:46:34,513
I can't remember the details,
but I was sent to interview

1058
00:46:34,513 --> 00:46:35,843
this dear old woman.

1059
00:46:36,088 --> 00:46:38,608
That it had a very hard life
and she, as I recall, she

1060
00:46:38,608 --> 00:46:41,188
was living in a hotel at
the largesse of the hotel

1061
00:46:41,188 --> 00:46:44,788
owner, but she wanted to
do the interview outside.

1062
00:46:44,788 --> 00:46:46,918
So we're walking around
in the outside and we

1063
00:46:46,918 --> 00:46:50,168
were under some of those
high tension wires and she

1064
00:46:50,178 --> 00:46:53,618
grabbed me and she pulled me
aside and she said you need

1065
00:46:53,618 --> 00:46:54,828
to stay away from those.

1066
00:46:54,868 --> 00:46:57,858
That's how I think it was
that's how the aliens,

1067
00:46:58,028 --> 00:47:00,428
uh, send their signals
right to our brain.

1068
00:47:01,148 --> 00:47:04,248
And I remember
thinking, what do I say?

1069
00:47:04,978 --> 00:47:08,118
Because I didn't want to
discount her, you know?

1070
00:47:08,168 --> 00:47:10,278
I didn't want to say,
hey, you're just crazy.

1071
00:47:10,788 --> 00:47:13,558
I wanted to be loving
and say, well, you know,

1072
00:47:13,558 --> 00:47:14,738
I think I'll be okay.

1073
00:47:15,048 --> 00:47:16,858
I think I'm going to be
okay, but let's, let's

1074
00:47:16,878 --> 00:47:18,938
move away from them if
you're not comfortable.

1075
00:47:19,348 --> 00:47:22,208
And I wish the people who
had doubts would ask me

1076
00:47:22,208 --> 00:47:25,838
questions and just, instead
of just dismissing the whole

1077
00:47:25,848 --> 00:47:27,838
thing, ask me questions.

1078
00:47:27,838 --> 00:47:29,458
Ask me what
hospital I went to.

1079
00:47:29,488 --> 00:47:31,448
Ask me, ask me anything.

1080
00:47:33,778 --> 00:47:35,628
Because one of the
remarkable things about

1081
00:47:35,628 --> 00:47:38,748
my experience is that
when I died, I had cancer.

1082
00:47:38,748 --> 00:47:39,788
When I came back, it was gone.

1083
00:47:39,798 --> 00:47:41,548
When I died, I
was lost in grief.

1084
00:47:41,548 --> 00:47:42,978
When I came back,
I was better.

1085
00:47:43,358 --> 00:47:44,718
When I died, I just wanted.

1086
00:47:45,093 --> 00:47:47,103
I wanted to get away
from earth and away

1087
00:47:47,103 --> 00:47:47,893
from human beings.

1088
00:47:47,893 --> 00:47:50,133
When I came back, I decided
to write that book because

1089
00:47:50,133 --> 00:47:51,433
I wanted to share the story.

1090
00:47:51,433 --> 00:47:53,793
I, I did, you know, I,
I guess I'm kind of,

1091
00:47:53,813 --> 00:47:54,963
um, what's the word?

1092
00:47:55,713 --> 00:48:00,433
Uh, not capricious, but kind
of disregarding what this,

1093
00:48:00,453 --> 00:48:01,653
the point of all this is.

1094
00:48:01,683 --> 00:48:05,733
But after my husband's
suicide, a friend of

1095
00:48:05,733 --> 00:48:08,343
mine shared this comment
with me that I wrote on

1096
00:48:08,343 --> 00:48:10,073
a piece of paper and I
put it all over my house.

1097
00:48:10,073 --> 00:48:12,083
I mean, I literally taped
this comment all over the

1098
00:48:12,093 --> 00:48:14,453
house and it was, God,
please help me heal so

1099
00:48:14,453 --> 00:48:15,563
I can help others heal.

1100
00:48:16,448 --> 00:48:17,768
And I think that's
why I came back.

1101
00:48:17,818 --> 00:48:20,268
I think that prayer is, I
hope that prayer is being

1102
00:48:20,268 --> 00:48:23,628
answered, is help me heal so
I can help other, others heal.

1103
00:48:23,628 --> 00:48:24,948
And your question was,
what would I say to

1104
00:48:24,948 --> 00:48:26,478
people who don't want
to share this story?

1105
00:48:27,368 --> 00:48:30,898
I'd say, you know, just,
just listen to the angels.

1106
00:48:31,008 --> 00:48:33,818
And sometimes I think you are
better to keep it to yourself,

1107
00:48:33,838 --> 00:48:36,023
but sometimes it helps people.

1108
00:48:36,093 --> 00:48:38,103
I think it really
helps people sometimes.

1109
00:48:38,473 --> 00:48:41,113
And I can't tell you how many
times I've run into somebody.

1110
00:48:41,753 --> 00:48:44,583
Like I went into the hardware
store and I had a brief

1111
00:48:44,583 --> 00:48:47,573
exchange with a clerk and I
can't remember what I told

1112
00:48:47,573 --> 00:48:50,353
her, but I shared something
pretty spiritually intimate

1113
00:48:51,143 --> 00:48:53,853
and she got tears in her eyes
and she said, you have no idea

1114
00:48:53,853 --> 00:48:55,353
how much that helped me today.

1115
00:48:55,933 --> 00:48:57,828
And I think, you know,
I think that's what

1116
00:48:57,828 --> 00:48:59,028
we're supposed to do.

1117
00:48:59,078 --> 00:49:02,138
I just think we're supposed to
be nice to each other and kind

1118
00:49:02,138 --> 00:49:04,508
and good as much as we can.

1119
00:49:05,438 --> 00:49:07,328
You know, there's some people
that won't let you be nice

1120
00:49:07,328 --> 00:49:09,698
to them, but I just, I really
think we're supposed to be

1121
00:49:09,698 --> 00:49:13,048
nice to us, to people, to
the best of our ability.

1122
00:49:13,378 --> 00:49:15,778
And sometimes that means
sharing your NDE and I guess

1123
00:49:15,778 --> 00:49:18,428
other times we have to be
protective of ourselves.

1124
00:49:18,898 --> 00:49:20,608
If people are just
after, I know, I know

1125
00:49:20,608 --> 00:49:22,258
after this happened, I
went and told everybody.

1126
00:49:22,768 --> 00:49:24,718
Can't wait to tell everybody
everything about my NDE.

1127
00:49:24,728 --> 00:49:27,608
And I met this one guy who
I thought he was my friend.

1128
00:49:28,738 --> 00:49:29,658
I told him about it.

1129
00:49:30,008 --> 00:49:32,028
And boy, that guy spent
the next 30 minutes

1130
00:49:32,028 --> 00:49:35,138
explaining to me from a
very intellectual point

1131
00:49:35,138 --> 00:49:36,558
of view, why I was wrong.

1132
00:49:37,018 --> 00:49:39,198
Why I was completely
wrong and why I could

1133
00:49:39,198 --> 00:49:40,468
not possibly be right.

1134
00:49:41,038 --> 00:49:42,668
So I've become more
circumspect about

1135
00:49:42,668 --> 00:49:43,458
with whom I share.

1136
00:49:43,458 --> 00:49:45,078
And I guess that's
what we all have to do.

1137
00:49:45,128 --> 00:49:47,118
Just be a little,
have some wisdom.

1138
00:49:47,228 --> 00:49:51,358
Wise as serpents, harmless
as doves, hard to do.

1139
00:49:53,133 --> 00:49:54,553
Rod Bland: Wise as
serpents, harmless as

1140
00:49:54,553 --> 00:49:56,363
doves, I've never heard
that before, that's good.

1141
00:49:57,283 --> 00:49:58,643
Rosemary Thornton: And
that's what Jesus told us.

1142
00:50:01,028 --> 00:50:03,958
Rod Bland: Have you acquired
any, or do you have any

1143
00:50:03,958 --> 00:50:06,338
occurrences like, you know,
angels revisiting, or have

1144
00:50:06,338 --> 00:50:09,118
you had any other sort of
extra sensory abilities that

1145
00:50:09,128 --> 00:50:09,968
have stuck with you since

1146
00:50:09,983 --> 00:50:11,083
Rosemary Thornton:
I wish I did.

1147
00:50:11,573 --> 00:50:12,513
I want to.

1148
00:50:14,343 --> 00:50:17,923
Um, honestly, no more
so than I had before.

1149
00:50:18,183 --> 00:50:20,663
I think I was pretty
tuned into the spiritual,

1150
00:50:21,003 --> 00:50:22,413
which is one of the
reasons my husband's

1151
00:50:22,413 --> 00:50:23,873
death was such a shock.

1152
00:50:24,273 --> 00:50:27,523
You know, I remember one day,
because he, he worked at, um,

1153
00:50:27,563 --> 00:50:28,813
he worked in city government.

1154
00:50:29,733 --> 00:50:33,358
And one day, He got dressed,
and you know, he wore his ties

1155
00:50:33,378 --> 00:50:36,238
and his suits and his, you
know, he's a very dapper man,

1156
00:50:36,248 --> 00:50:40,518
very handsome looking fellow,
and he got all dressed up, and

1157
00:50:40,518 --> 00:50:42,868
he was heading, I gave him,
I made him breakfast and gave

1158
00:50:42,868 --> 00:50:45,208
him a kiss goodbye, and off he
goes, and he says, I'm going

1159
00:50:45,208 --> 00:50:48,698
to town, and, um, he walked
out the door, and I very

1160
00:50:48,738 --> 00:50:53,038
clearly heard an angel voice
say, Like it was, the angel

1161
00:50:53,038 --> 00:50:54,028
was standing right beside me.

1162
00:50:54,028 --> 00:50:56,188
So it felt like, but the
angel said, prepare yourself.

1163
00:50:56,568 --> 00:50:58,468
The season of your life
is coming to an end.

1164
00:50:58,478 --> 00:50:59,438
He'll be dead soon.

1165
00:51:00,328 --> 00:51:01,228
I was like, wait, what?

1166
00:51:02,598 --> 00:51:04,398
No, no, no.

1167
00:51:04,408 --> 00:51:05,838
That's something
dark talking to me.

1168
00:51:05,838 --> 00:51:06,738
That's not God.

1169
00:51:07,118 --> 00:51:10,178
So I prayed extra hard,
extra, extra, extra hard.

1170
00:51:10,778 --> 00:51:12,358
But I heard that
message again and again.

1171
00:51:12,358 --> 00:51:15,198
And again, I was
like, stop, stop it.

1172
00:51:15,318 --> 00:51:16,388
That is not.

1173
00:51:17,103 --> 00:51:19,883
That cannot be God's
will for my life.

1174
00:51:20,783 --> 00:51:24,483
Uh, so I, I think I've
always been pretty sensitive

1175
00:51:24,483 --> 00:51:28,723
to that stuff, but no, I
don't have any ESP or, you

1176
00:51:28,723 --> 00:51:29,843
know, anything like that.

1177
00:51:29,843 --> 00:51:31,673
I, I do pray every day.

1178
00:51:31,733 --> 00:51:34,063
I ask God, I used to pray
when my children would go

1179
00:51:34,063 --> 00:51:36,393
off to school every morning
and I'd say, God, help them

1180
00:51:36,393 --> 00:51:37,963
realize their full potential.

1181
00:51:38,663 --> 00:51:41,323
And I kind of pray that for
myself these days, help me

1182
00:51:41,323 --> 00:51:44,333
realize my full potential, you
know, whatever's I'm supposed

1183
00:51:44,373 --> 00:51:46,573
to do, keep me pointed
in the right direction.

1184
00:51:47,383 --> 00:51:51,663
I, that's really my, I, I even
pray when I drive in my car,

1185
00:51:51,863 --> 00:51:53,793
I say, God, keep me pointed
in the right direction.

1186
00:51:53,793 --> 00:51:56,423
And that means keep me
from flipping over, keep

1187
00:51:56,433 --> 00:51:58,823
me from hitting anybody,
keep anybody from hitting

1188
00:51:58,823 --> 00:52:01,623
me, keep me pointed in
the right direction.

1189
00:52:01,653 --> 00:52:03,853
But no, I don't think I
have any special abilities.

1190
00:52:03,873 --> 00:52:05,773
If I did, I, you know,
I think I'd like to have

1191
00:52:05,773 --> 00:52:06,733
some good stock tips.

1192
00:52:06,963 --> 00:52:08,263
That'd be very
helpful, wouldn't it?

1193
00:52:09,388 --> 00:52:12,398
Rod Bland: Ha,
ha, don't take all

1194
00:52:12,473 --> 00:52:13,493
Rosemary Thornton:
No, nothing like that.

1195
00:52:15,278 --> 00:52:17,298
Rod Bland: When you look
back at the, the sort of the

1196
00:52:17,298 --> 00:52:20,588
events, you know, from when
your, when your husband died

1197
00:52:20,798 --> 00:52:23,558
and your illness, et cetera,
and then what's occurred since

1198
00:52:23,558 --> 00:52:29,218
then, does it seem like it
was, there's a lot The end

1199
00:52:29,218 --> 00:52:31,938
point where you are now, can
you sort of see the value in

1200
00:52:32,288 --> 00:52:35,348
how that occurred, or why that
needed to happen, and what

1201
00:52:35,358 --> 00:52:38,858
the rest of us as humans may
have missed out had Rosemary

1202
00:52:38,858 --> 00:52:39,658
not gone through that.

1203
00:52:41,013 --> 00:52:43,043
Rosemary Thornton: Oh man,
that's a really deep question.

1204
00:52:44,183 --> 00:52:45,153
I don't know.

1205
00:52:45,883 --> 00:52:49,013
I know that human life
is hard, and the people

1206
00:52:49,013 --> 00:52:52,003
who say it isn't, I don't
know what they're made of.

1207
00:52:52,003 --> 00:52:52,673
I don't know.

1208
00:52:53,378 --> 00:52:56,148
I don't know how they can
say that, especially now that

1209
00:52:56,398 --> 00:52:59,988
I get a lot of emails and
I hear, I, I am not able to

1210
00:52:59,988 --> 00:53:02,978
respond, honestly, to most
of the emails I read them.

1211
00:53:03,518 --> 00:53:06,468
And I always try to send
up a quick prayer, asking

1212
00:53:06,468 --> 00:53:07,858
God to watch over them.

1213
00:53:07,888 --> 00:53:08,788
And I'm grateful.

1214
00:53:09,068 --> 00:53:10,138
I'm grateful to read them.

1215
00:53:11,258 --> 00:53:13,418
There's a lot of people
been through some very hard

1216
00:53:13,418 --> 00:53:17,918
stuff and, uh, I don't know.

1217
00:53:18,188 --> 00:53:19,218
I don't, I don't know.

1218
00:53:19,238 --> 00:53:21,678
I, if my story is helping
people, that's great.

1219
00:53:22,038 --> 00:53:23,168
I don't really know that.

1220
00:53:24,208 --> 00:53:27,528
I just, I honestly, I
guess I think being nice

1221
00:53:27,528 --> 00:53:31,968
to our neighbors and being
nice to the, the clerk

1222
00:53:32,388 --> 00:53:33,708
at the grocery store.

1223
00:53:34,388 --> 00:53:36,968
Maybe being nice to her
husband when he snores.

1224
00:53:38,958 --> 00:53:40,008
Uh, who was it?

1225
00:53:40,008 --> 00:53:41,148
Oh, mother Teresa.

1226
00:53:41,918 --> 00:53:42,878
I love this quote.

1227
00:53:43,698 --> 00:53:46,368
She said, maybe we do,
maybe we can't do great

1228
00:53:46,428 --> 00:53:49,728
big things to change the
world, but we can do little

1229
00:53:49,733 --> 00:53:51,228
things with great love.

1230
00:53:51,788 --> 00:53:53,138
I think that's what
we're supposed to do.

1231
00:53:53,258 --> 00:53:54,818
I think we're supposed
to do lots of little

1232
00:53:54,818 --> 00:53:55,988
things with great love.

1233
00:53:55,988 --> 00:53:56,588
Mm-Hmm.

1234
00:53:58,648 --> 00:53:59,308
Rod Bland: I
think that's true.

1235
00:53:59,308 --> 00:54:03,988
I had another guest, she had
the life review in her NDE.

1236
00:54:04,178 --> 00:54:05,458
And not everybody has them.

1237
00:54:06,048 --> 00:54:08,748
But it wasn't the big
things that she was showing,

1238
00:54:08,758 --> 00:54:11,938
it was these small acts
of kindness and Showing

1239
00:54:11,938 --> 00:54:14,528
love to other people, that
was what she was reminded of.

1240
00:54:15,703 --> 00:54:17,153
Rosemary Thornton: One
thing I've started doing

1241
00:54:17,333 --> 00:54:19,453
because I do want to be
a blessing, you know,

1242
00:54:19,453 --> 00:54:22,373
I'm kind of here on borrowed
time, you know, I'm kind

1243
00:54:22,373 --> 00:54:25,593
of here on, on God's time
because I'm supposed to be

1244
00:54:25,593 --> 00:54:26,883
out of here, but I'm not.

1245
00:54:27,553 --> 00:54:29,903
Once a week and sometimes
two, three times a week, I

1246
00:54:29,903 --> 00:54:32,933
try to send a little love
note, a card, you know, an

1247
00:54:32,933 --> 00:54:37,663
actual card or a letter and
just say, that thing you

1248
00:54:37,663 --> 00:54:41,713
did for me over Christmas
was very appreciated, and

1249
00:54:41,873 --> 00:54:45,053
I'm I'm so impressed with
how gracious you are, and

1250
00:54:45,053 --> 00:54:47,173
how kind you are, and I'm
grateful you're my friend.

1251
00:54:47,983 --> 00:54:51,183
And I try to send those
out, just out to the world

1252
00:54:51,353 --> 00:54:54,663
as often as I can, just
because we're supposed to be.

1253
00:54:55,913 --> 00:54:57,943
It's just, the world
is a hard place.

1254
00:54:57,943 --> 00:55:00,423
If we can show our neighbors
and friends a little grace,

1255
00:55:01,283 --> 00:55:03,233
I really think that's
what we're called to do.

1256
00:55:06,358 --> 00:55:07,128
Rod Bland: I'll do that too.

1257
00:55:08,248 --> 00:55:11,858
So what advice would you have
for 25 year old Rosemary?

1258
00:55:12,478 --> 00:55:12,828
Okay,

1259
00:55:12,883 --> 00:55:15,473
Rosemary Thornton: Ah,
ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

1260
00:55:15,933 --> 00:55:17,503
Well, I don't know.

1261
00:55:18,488 --> 00:55:20,308
I don't, I don't have
an answer for that.

1262
00:55:20,448 --> 00:55:21,018
Don't know.

1263
00:55:24,058 --> 00:55:25,818
Rod Bland: and how do you
feel about the future of your

1264
00:55:25,818 --> 00:55:28,478
life here on planet Earth now
compared to before your NDE?

1265
00:55:31,878 --> 00:55:34,258
Rosemary Thornton:
Uh, I don't know.

1266
00:55:35,228 --> 00:55:37,448
When I get overwhelmed
by life, which I am

1267
00:55:37,458 --> 00:55:38,908
way too sensitive,

1268
00:55:40,158 --> 00:55:42,778
when I get overwhelmed by
life, I remind myself that

1269
00:55:42,778 --> 00:55:44,458
this is all very temporary.

1270
00:55:44,828 --> 00:55:47,918
And one of the thoughts I
had when I was floating away

1271
00:55:47,918 --> 00:55:50,958
from my body, one of the
very profound thoughts I had

1272
00:55:50,958 --> 00:55:54,908
was, you know, that 59 years
sure went by in a hurry.

1273
00:55:55,173 --> 00:55:56,713
You know, it just seemed
like it was over like

1274
00:55:56,713 --> 00:55:59,313
that, you know, and it
really was like awakening

1275
00:55:59,313 --> 00:56:00,943
from a very intense dream.

1276
00:56:02,523 --> 00:56:06,573
And I tell myself when I get
really wrapped up around the

1277
00:56:06,573 --> 00:56:11,073
axle, you know, worried about
stupid stuff, or even what

1278
00:56:11,073 --> 00:56:14,413
seems like non stupid stuff,
I try very hard to remind

1279
00:56:14,413 --> 00:56:18,373
myself that one day I'm going
to look back and say, yep,

1280
00:56:18,543 --> 00:56:20,283
that was all over in a hurry.

1281
00:56:23,093 --> 00:56:25,973
But yeah, this, this
experience, some people just,

1282
00:56:27,043 --> 00:56:29,953
you know, human misery is not
doled out in equal measure.

1283
00:56:31,053 --> 00:56:34,973
I wish I really wanted to
have the life where I met a

1284
00:56:34,973 --> 00:56:38,463
guy, married a guy, and stayed
with a guy for 57 years.

1285
00:56:39,093 --> 00:56:40,413
I really wanted that.

1286
00:56:40,743 --> 00:56:41,963
I thought I wanted that.

1287
00:56:42,643 --> 00:56:45,033
And now I, I don't
know, it didn't happen.

1288
00:56:45,348 --> 00:56:46,398
It's not going to happen.

1289
00:56:46,938 --> 00:56:47,688
So I don't know.

1290
00:56:47,738 --> 00:56:49,818
I guess we just make
the best of what we get.

1291
00:56:50,038 --> 00:56:51,408
And I'm very grateful
to be healthy.

1292
00:56:51,768 --> 00:56:54,548
I promised myself when I was
in the middle of all this

1293
00:56:54,698 --> 00:56:57,828
horror of, you know, the
grief, the guilt, the cancer

1294
00:56:57,828 --> 00:57:00,948
diagnosis, all this stuff,
that if somehow in the future

1295
00:57:01,208 --> 00:57:04,498
it was behind me, that I
would always be grateful.

1296
00:57:04,863 --> 00:57:05,833
That I'd been healed.

1297
00:57:05,843 --> 00:57:08,643
Always be grateful that
it was in my past and it

1298
00:57:08,643 --> 00:57:09,773
couldn't hurt me anymore.

1299
00:57:10,133 --> 00:57:13,223
And I need, I need to tell
future Rosemary that every

1300
00:57:13,223 --> 00:57:17,293
day, just be grateful.

1301
00:57:17,883 --> 00:57:21,093
Everything doesn't, everything
doesn't go perfect every day.

1302
00:57:21,958 --> 00:57:23,868
Rod Bland: Yeah, let's
just remember what you

1303
00:57:23,868 --> 00:57:25,238
said about that, yeah.

1304
00:57:26,428 --> 00:57:28,518
So if, if people want to get
in touch with you Rosemary,

1305
00:57:28,518 --> 00:57:31,168
I know you've said before
you get people emailing

1306
00:57:31,168 --> 00:57:34,518
you, um, what's the best
way for them to do that?

1307
00:57:34,598 --> 00:57:35,798
Assuming that that's possible.

1308
00:57:35,798 --> 00:57:37,718
And tell us about what
you've got going on.

1309
00:57:38,028 --> 00:57:38,968
Tell us about
your book as well.

1310
00:57:40,338 --> 00:57:43,188
Rosemary Thornton: Uh, my
website is TemporaryDeath.

1311
00:57:43,208 --> 00:57:43,728
com,

1312
00:57:44,598 --> 00:57:47,088
and there's a Contact
Rose tab on it.

1313
00:57:47,618 --> 00:57:49,598
And my book is
Remembering the Light,

1314
00:57:49,708 --> 00:57:51,478
How Dying Saved My Life.

1315
00:57:51,948 --> 00:57:53,328
Took me three years to write.

1316
00:57:53,448 --> 00:57:56,318
I wrote it, threw out the
first manuscript, wrote

1317
00:57:56,318 --> 00:57:58,668
it again, threw out the
second manuscript, wrote

1318
00:57:58,668 --> 00:58:01,628
it a third time, and pretty
much rewrote most of that.

1319
00:58:01,658 --> 00:58:04,128
So it was a pretty
intense labor of love.

1320
00:58:04,268 --> 00:58:05,058
Rod Bland: Wow.

1321
00:58:05,338 --> 00:58:07,118
Rosemary Thornton: But yeah,
it's, it's up at Amazon.

1322
00:58:07,128 --> 00:58:10,668
It's in Kindle, it's in,
uh, uh, paperback, but it's

1323
00:58:10,668 --> 00:58:13,348
going to be out as an audio
recording pretty soon.

1324
00:58:13,478 --> 00:58:14,898
I've done the recording
and now they're

1325
00:58:14,898 --> 00:58:16,218
just tidying it up.

1326
00:58:16,218 --> 00:58:19,438
So it will be available as
an audio recording, probably

1327
00:58:19,438 --> 00:58:20,608
within less than a month.

1328
00:58:22,588 --> 00:58:24,628
Rod Bland: Well, uh, it's been
my great pleasure to have you

1329
00:58:24,628 --> 00:58:26,058
on the show today, Rosemary.

1330
00:58:26,058 --> 00:58:28,438
Do you have anything that
you want to leave people with

1331
00:58:28,478 --> 00:58:29,488
before we wrap things up?

1332
00:58:32,138 --> 00:58:33,528
Rosemary Thornton: No,
just, I guess kind of

1333
00:58:33,528 --> 00:58:34,538
what I started with.

1334
00:58:34,558 --> 00:58:37,078
If, if you know somebody
who's lost a loved one to

1335
00:58:37,078 --> 00:58:41,368
suicide, understand that,
uh, actually the American

1336
00:58:41,368 --> 00:58:44,218
Psychological Association
came out with a comment years

1337
00:58:44,218 --> 00:58:47,608
ago that said losing a close
loved one to suicide is one

1338
00:58:47,608 --> 00:58:50,028
of the most severe traumas
a human being can know.

1339
00:58:50,568 --> 00:58:52,408
So if you know somebody
who's been through that,

1340
00:58:52,588 --> 00:58:56,628
just Be very patient with
them, be very present for

1341
00:58:56,628 --> 00:59:01,988
them as the, uh, as the
people say, show up and help

1342
00:59:01,988 --> 00:59:03,858
them, show up and shut up.

1343
00:59:04,418 --> 00:59:06,468
They're not there to listen
to your own sad story.

1344
00:59:06,468 --> 00:59:09,068
They're there because
they're so alone.

1345
00:59:09,538 --> 00:59:11,968
You know, as I said before,
the people who've been

1346
00:59:11,968 --> 00:59:15,098
through trauma and survived
it are 21st century lepers,

1347
00:59:15,538 --> 00:59:18,108
and that shouldn't be,
it shouldn't be that way.

1348
00:59:19,428 --> 00:59:19,788
Rod Bland: Hmm.

1349
00:59:21,358 --> 00:59:22,778
Rosemary, thank
you for being here.

1350
00:59:22,778 --> 00:59:24,458
Thank you for your
grace and your humor.

1351
00:59:24,658 --> 00:59:26,448
And for being my guest today.

1352
00:59:27,578 --> 00:59:28,608
Rosemary Thornton:
Thank you very much.