Did AI Go Rogue? The Race to Safe Conscious AGI with Dr. Daniel Hulme

What if the intelligence you're racing to build is the very thing you can't yet control?

Dr. Daniel Hulme has spent 27 years building AI, from founding Satalia (acquired by WPP) to serving as WPP's Global Chief AI Officer today. He's also the CEO of Conscium, built on the idea that a conscious AI may be safer than an intelligent one, and co-founder of Faculty AI (recently acquired by Accenture for $1 billion).

In this conversation, Daniel unpacks the recent news of an AI model breaking out of its sandbox and hacking into infrastructure. Was it true "rogue" behavior, or a failure of human guardrails? He explains why the race to AGI isn't about speed, but whether we truly understand what we're building before it understands itself.

You'll learn:

• Did AI actually go rogue? The truth behind OpenAI's red-team testing and sandbox "breakout". 
• How Daniel's "conscious vs. zombie superintelligence" idea reframes AI safety entirely
• Why testing and verifying AI systems matters more than trying to control every outcome in advance
• What building machines with empathy reveals about the human values we assume but rarely define
• How to make confident calls on AI risk without needing every guardrail figured out first

• (00:00) - Welcome & Introduction
• (01:40) - Meet Daniel Hulme
• (03:43) - AI at WPP
• (05:48) - Why Build Conscious AI?
• (10:11) - What Is Machine Consciousness?
• (18:05) - Defining AGI
• (24:45) - OpenAI's "Rogue AI" Debate
• (29:55) - Solving the Right Problems with AI
• (35:55) - Common AI Mistakes in Business
• (42:32) - Building Better AI Agents
• (46:42) - AI, Jobs & Human Potential
• (53:22) - Career Advice for the AI Era
• (56:17) - The Future of AI Governance
• (01:01:05) - Rapid Fire Questions
• (01:03:34) - Closing Thoughts

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This episode was brought to you by RevSetter & Nebelus AI.

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Creators and Guests

Host

Haydar Al-Saad

Haydar Al-Saad is the founder and CEO of RevSetter, the Customer Success & Revenue platform that turns CS into the new revenue engine. With almost two decades of experience in building and leading customer-centric teams & organizations, I have a passion for helping companies and teams unlock the potential of every customer in order to improve retention, accelerate expansion, and fuel revenue growth.

Host

Ivy Forero

What is The Success Revenue Podcast?

The Success Revenue Podcast is a human-led, AI-powered show exploring how leaders use AI to drive business results while keeping human impact at the center. Hosted by Haydar Al-Saad and Ivy Forero, the podcast features conversations with founders, executives, and operators from around the globe who are building the future of business with AI.