Erin Bailey: Welcome.
I'm sitting down with Lori Ocus today, and I've known Lori for a couple of years now.
I first reached out to her because as a first grade teacher, I was a huge fan of the Fab four.
I used it with my students during small groups and during read alouds, and so I thought.
I will reach out to Lori and we've been partnering on projects ever since then.
It's been lovely.
So welcome, Lori, and I thought you could start by sharing a little bit about your background and how you got into teaching and literacy.
Lori Oczkus: Well, thank you Erin.
I'm really excited to be here.
That was, that's kind of an interesting question, and all of you that are listening maybe can think about your own experience.
How did you get into, you know, working with kids in literacy?
Or why did you, I think for me, I always wanted to be a teacher or a, or actually the other cha choice that I had in my mind was a talk show hostess.
I'm one of those kids that would, would not go to sleep when I went to bed and I lined up all my toys and, and had a talk show.
And I kind of have the best of both worlds because now I do PD and I'm a teacher.
So I remember in college trying to decide journalism or do I wanna teach?
And I went back and forth and I ended up with teaching and I'm so glad I did because it has been the most fabulous career ever and literacy.
I got into literacy because, you know, I think, first of all, I'm a writing teacher.
I was a writing teacher in my own classroom.
I always felt like I didn't really know what I was doing teaching, reading.
When I started out, I was borrowing from the teacher next door and asking questions and, but writing, I always felt comfortable as a writer, myself, as a writer, as a child.
Wrote a lot of poetry and have, still have a little journal I wrote in.
So I started as a writer and then.
I tell people my reading journey is very kind of sad.
I didn't really read much as a kid.
We didn't have very many books.
My mother grew up in the projects and in poverty, and so did my dad, and they didn't really know about having books in the home that much.
But they did take us to the book Mobile.
Which would be reading is fundamental.
So thank you for that.
I remember checking out books and the smell of it and everything else, just loving it.
So as a child I became hooked on reading, really thanks to you.
And reading is fundamental and book mobiles.
And then I became a more of a reader when I married into a family of readers where, you know, my husband's family just, they read.
Constantly and that really promoted me to read.
'cause I think a lot of adults don't read.
You know, you might read when you're a kid, but I became an adult reader on my honeymoon, which is pretty funny.
People say what?
I said, well, I'm married into a family.
I'm readers.
Erin Bailey: I love that.
Thank you, Laurie.
It, I mean, and that just illustrates the importance of book access, creating a culture of literacy and reading at home.
All the things that you highlighted is what?
We as reading as fundamental want for the children that, that we work with.
So I I love that.
Thank you.
So let's talk about reciprocal teaching.
How did you become interested in it and become so passionate about it?
Lori Oczkus: Well reciprocal teaching, which is those of you, I'll define it briefly for those of you that may not know what it is, just so you know what we're talking about.
Reciprocal teaching is a comprehension strategy, discussion technique.
And it's scaffolded.
So it's the discussion that you have with kids and it has four strategies that you use kind of in a circle, and you can kind of switch up whichever one you need, but you predict, question, clarify, and summarize.
So you read a chunk of text with the students.
Then you might have kids turn to a partner and predict what the next part is about, or find a tricky word that was in this part, or ask a question, what are you wondering in this chunk we read?
And then turn to your partner and summarize.
Or you can have kids take jobs, the predictor, the question, or the clarifier.
And the summarizer, which a lot of people totally associate with However.
I have a whole model where we use it for read alouds.
You know, we use it in lots of different ways, and we call it the Fab Four.
The reason why I gave it that nickname years ago is because I thought the name Reciprocal Teaching was kind of a boring name for kids.
That it would be more fun if it had a pep name.
And if you think about the Beatles, the Real Fab Four.
They all had their own separate careers, but when they're together, they're like a power.
They're the powerhouse beginning most famous rock band we can think of, well with the strategies.
Each one is has its own rockstar career, but when they're all together, they're powerful.
How did I get started with this wonderful research based strategy that is evidence-based and I will talk about why it's science of reading as well.
I got interested in it because I knew about it from my undergraduate studies.
I went to University of Northern Colorado and we had been taught about it, so I, it kinda had in the back of my mind as something I may wanna use someday.
And when I switched to fifth grade and I noticed the kids are reading two years below grade level in my bilingual classroom.
I knew that I could rely on it, so I brought it out.
I brought it out for the first time and actually tried it with my students and we were heavy in heavily into.
Cooperative learning at that stage of teaching, and it worked really well.
So, you know, in one of my first classrooms I used it and then from there on out as I became work in literacy coaching and I, now I work with K eight in all over the world, it, it's a strategy I like.
And why do I like it?
Because students don't comprehend.
They often have difficulty, even good readers, even readers that read very fluently.
They can decode, but they cannot comprehend.
You know, there's just a myriad of problems that students have with reading.
They're reading two years below grade level.
They can't find the main idea.
They don't really understand what they've read.
And then there are students that don't know what to do when they're stuck.
So I think it's the problems that I see and that I've seen all along that kids have with reading comprehension that have prompted me to become, you know, really a fan of reciprocal teaching because it is such a strong method and it works.
So I think like a lot of teachers that are listening to this podcast with us, you know, we have students that just struggle with comprehension.
And you're not, people aren't sure what, what?
What can I do to promote that?
Erin Bailey: Yeah, that brings back so many memories.
As I mentioned at our intro, I. Used the Fab four as a first grade teacher.
That's what I knew it as.
I had an anchor chart, which with each of the components, and I even had props, which really brought it to life for the kids.
So for example, the predictor, we had a crystal ball and if a.
Child wanted to make a predictor.
They would do the crystal ball hand motion, and then they'd get to come up and hold the crystal ball and make a prediction.
You know, we had glasses for the clarifier.
We had a notepad for the summarizer and a microphone for the questionnaire, and it, it was just, it brought it to life for.
The kids and it was so, it was so fun.
But let's talk about the role of the teacher.
What's the teacher doing?
'cause it, you know, my students didn't just appear and know how to ask questions or how to make a prediction.
So what role does the teacher play in reciprocal teaching?
Okay.
Lori Oczkus: You brought up a whole bunch of great points and the teacher has a huge role, but it's the thing I tell people.
About reciprocal teaching is that it is a high yield, which we'll talk about the res research and results in a minute, high yield, low prep strategy that you really just kind of have to learn how to do it.
You don't have a ton of prep.
To do to stand in front of students and, and deliver this, and also also get them engaged.
But gradual release is really key to it.
So for example, if we are conducting a read aloud and the characters, I'm so glad you used them over the years I've presented them I created them working with primary children because when I was doing comprehension think alouds, you go, all right, gonna.
Sunrise eyes now and little kids are, you know, wiggling and everything else.
And I remember sitting in front of a group of second graders and coming up with the four characters all in that spot.
I think our best teaching is when we're in front of children and I was sitting there and I thought.
You know, I wonder if I could have a character for each one.
'cause then I could roll 'em out.
So we do Paula, the predictor.
We do and we rub our crystal ball.
We have gestures to go with it.
and in my think aloud, the role that the characters play is that I can say I can, I'm reading aloud out of a picture book and I will stop on a page and say, I'm making a powerful prediction.
And then I model using my little voice and they think it's cute and clever on their listening.
And I say, I predict that, that she's going to get mad because she did this.
And then I, I have the kids turn to a partner and give their prediction and say, I predict, or I think that, so I give them a stem.
So what is the role of the teacher to model?
Now I have a lot of teachers that say, I'm not doing the characters.
No way.
And it's okay.
You don't have to do those.
Those are an optional scaffolding, you know, tool that you can use.
And then but some teachers love it.
I went to a six 12.
So middle school and high school in London, Glades Moore School.
And guess what?
They were doing?
The characters with their kids.
'cause they're in London, right?
They're acting, but a lot of teachers are going, I don't wanna do that.
Then if you don't wanna do it, then just stop on a page and make a prediction.
Say, I'm gonna show you how to do this, and then right away we turn and talk to a partner.
So what is the role of the teacher?
The role of the teacher is to.
Choose where you're gonna stop and model.
Tell them which strategy you're modeling, model it, and then provide an opportunity.
Release a little bit of responsibility and say, turn to your partner and say.
A tricky word that I need to clarify is, and maybe you write on the board that prompt and the students do the prompt.
So you're actually also providing the bridge and then pulling kids back.
So the other characters in case you want them are Claire Clarifier.
She wears big glasses and she says, I'm cla the clarify, clarify words.
I do not understand darling.
And then she looks for tricky words.
Then I have Quincy, the questioner with his microphone saying, I'm gonna ask questions, okay, to see if you're paying attention.
What's a who question on this page, turn to your partner and make up a who.
But wait, let me make one up first to show you how.
So the teachers that like the characters can use them, the ones that do not wanna do that don't have to.
But you can also show a picture and say, it's kind of like you're a game show host.
Asking a question and just point to the metaphor rather than actually using it.
And in my book I have lots of ideas, which is published by a SCD and ILA and in that book there's a lot of really great you know, forms you can use graphic organizers and ideas.
Then I also have, I'm Sammy this summer, I'm summing up the mean idea.
I'm gonna rope up the mean idea and try to get it right here in my rope.
So the role of the teacher is to pro, present, and I do.
We do.
You do.
So the students do it.
But if you've looked at the work of Fisher and Fray, they have added an updated version, which actually I love because it, it labels it exactly the way that, that I've been doing it.
And that, Erin, I knew you did it.
It goes like this.
I do, the teacher does an example.
So perhaps I choose a piece of text and I make up a question that the students can answer.
Then we're gonna do a, we do together.
So I'm gonna say, oh, let's find another place we can, let's look at paragraph two and see if we can make up a question to together and turn to your partner and you really telling 'em which paragraph and even how to start the question.
And then there's a, you do together where they do it with.
A friend and they kind of do it on their own together.
And then of course you're gonna have the students go into their notebook and record their own question that they do alone.
So we do it.
You know what I like to say about this, Erin?
It's a big fat We do, like we do in physical teaching, is like you took a balloon and you blow it up and you make it really big.
And as a teacher, you are not only modeling, but you are structuring what goes in the middle.
Lesson lesson so students can talk to one another because it's called reciprocal teaching.
'cause I take a turn.
Finding a tricky word.
Now you take a turn, it's reciprocal back and forth.
And so if students are not talking, it's not reciprocal teaching.
If I were to have students raise their hands and I'm calling on individuals, that's not reciprocal teaching either.
It's the talking to each other even for a second with a partner.
A tricky word or a question is that's the part that's gonna make it happen.
The learning happen.
Erin Bailey: So I've also seen teachers do this.
I mean, we're talking about whole class.
I, like I said, I taught first grade, so we did it during read alouds often.
And that gave a lot of opportunities for that kind of gradual release that you described.
Once they have it, and maybe this happens with older students too, like the six through 12, is it possible to send students off on their own in small groups to you know, do reciprocal teaching and maybe there it's a group of four and each student takes on a role and they can maybe rotate roles every week?
Lori Oczkus: You know, I, I, I'm gonna say that's really the ideal with, with kids in like third grade and up.
Erin Bailey: Mm-hmm.
Lori Oczkus: We have them put 'em in teams and we can say, you're the predictor, the question or the summarizer?
The clarifier.
You read the chapter together and then each person does their job, and then maybe each student fills out what I call a four door.
So I just.
Made of foldable for them.
They, they make their own foldable and they write on each door, one of the prediction.
They write, predict, they write question, and the students work together either to fill out a graphic organizer that they're gonna share or.
You know, like we'll put, I call it a game board.
We take a piece of construction paper and each child has sticky notes and they put 'em on there.
Let's put our predictions on, let's put our questions or words to clarify in our 10 word summary, because I have what I call a menu of, for each of the four like little quick things that kids can do to make the lesson a little more.
You know, engaging and exciting.
But we can also, but taking kids and just popping 'em into teams right away, I recommend doing that without doing it whole class.
So we do it whole class all the time with read alouds and even with core reading, if you're reading Wonders, whatever your reading series is, we do it whole group.
So we read a little bit of text and then we choose one of the strategies.
And so putting 'em into teams, I think people look on the internet and they see kids working in teams.
Like I, I got, I've got a wild class this year.
I can't do that.
Or I, I don't know how to get kids there.
You don't have to start there.
Even middle schools.
I've been working with Prince George for two years.
We've been working with their special ed in middle school and we put kids in teams, but not in the beginning.
We spend two, two or three months doing whole class lessons and close reading lessons where we, we are taking a text and everyone circles a tricky word.
Then you turn and tell your team your tricky word.
Then the teacher pulls everybody back.
Okay.
Now I'm gonna model how to ask a question on this page.
What I'm wondering.
Now you do it in your paper, then you turn to your partner and your team.
So we do a lot of that sort of back and forth whole group.
Yes, they're talking in teams for a second, but I'm not releasing them for 20 minutes to do a whole four Fab four by themselves until we've done lots of whole group.
And my book, reciprocal Teaching at Work has lots of lessons like that.
And I've also recorded a webinar with you that explains with reading is fundamental that explains.
More in detail how to do those kinds of lessons that lead up to the point where they can be in teams.
And even when they're in teams, Erin, I don't let 'em do it.
Even big kids for longer than about 20 minutes.
'cause things fall apart.
They kind of start, you know, it's like this group says we're done.
You're like, what?
What?
You are done.
And this group is only on the second strategy.
Erin Bailey: Yes, absolutely.
And that for those of you who are listening, I'll make sure that we have everything linked for you in the show notes, like Lori's book, her webinar that she's done before, as well as some of the graphic organizers that you mentioned.
'cause I'm sure everyone will be interested in getting their hands on those too.
So I also wanted to talk about choice.
So we talked a lot about engagement.
That's a pillar of reading is fundamental.
Our, our other pillar is choice.
So does choice play a role in reciprocal teaching and why is it so important?
Lori Oczkus: Does have a big role.
In everything with students and I, I've thought about this 'cause I knew you were gonna ask me this and there are different ways that we use choice with reciprocal teaching, I've used it where we've said, here are the books we're gonna read.
You can choose which book you wanna read.
That's always an a wonderful option with students.
When we can give kids a choice, we can also give them a choice of which strategy they would like to use on a particular page.
I call it, which one do I need?
I will, in the middle of a read aloud a, a very engaging read aloud, I'll stop and say, which one do you need right now, or, which one would you like to use right now?
Would, do you feel like making a prediction on this?
What?
With what we just read, what do you think?
And the students have to tell me which one they want.
One of my favorite readouts, which I believe I showed in your in our webinar that we did for you is I like Deborah de Lee Rose books, and she's done a one a. Whose beak gets shot off and they find it in the wilderness dying because it doesn't have its beak.
And the book is, I've read it to.
Eighth graders, and I've read it with kindergartners, it's, it's one of those few picture books that spans all the grade levels.
And it's so beautiful.
That particular book, I will stop on each page and the kids are in the palm of my hand, and I'll say, turn to your partner.
What did you hear?
And somebody will say, well, I heard the word pre.
One child might say, I wanna clarify a word on that page.
I heard you say preen.
Somebody else might say, I wonder if you know how she could survive for that many days without a beep.
How was she drinking water?
You know, somebody might say, so far, here's what's happened.
And summarize with a partner.
So, giving kids choice and medic, it helps them to keep metacognitive to not always spoonfeed and say, on this page, make a prediction on this page.
Make a summary.
Say, which one do you wanna do on this page?
That's really, really, that's like, oh, you've arrived when, and kids will surprise you and delight you in their choices and their reasons for using different strategies, and they share those with their partners.
Erin Bailey: And I think when you phrase it the way you did, what strategy did you need?
Students still have choice, but it also gives them an opportunity to.
Maybe select one that's not their favorite, because it's not about always what do you like, but it's what do you do?
I, I know my students, they love making predictions.
They loved being Paula, especially with, with the, you know, fortune teller glass.
Yes, exactly.
But that's not always the strategy that you need.
Right?
So phrasing it that way helps students to yes, make a choice, but make the right choice for that page.
Lori Oczkus: Well, and at the end of the lesson, because I like to tell teachers that we're really working on.
Some foundations that will, you are using the four strategies.
You're using all four in one lesson.
That's the other key teachers.
You have to use all four.
In one lesson, I'll have people say, oh, we did predict yesterday in question and today we're doing summarizing, clarify.
You're teaching comprehension, but you are not using reciprocal teaching.
You can do it twice a week and just use these strategies all together like this with a, a given text, whether you choose a poem, you can do it with any kind of text.
Any kind, but as far as choice at the end of the lesson to promote metacognition, I always, always end my lessons with this question.
I will say, turn to your partner and tell which strategy you helped you the most today, or with little kids.
I'll say, which one did you like doing the most?
I even do that with the eighth graders.
Sometimes with that special ed kids we say.
Which one did you like doing the most?
Say?
Oh, I really liked when we each drew our favorite part on a sticky note and everyone took 'em and we put 'em in order to make a summary at our table.
Erin Bailey: That's a fun one, and I also.
Lori Oczkus: Yeah, that's called favorite part summaries.
But they'll say kind of, you know, because I like to attach something fun with each part, they'll often choose what was the most fun.
Like, you know, when I got to use a pretend microphone and, and my charact, my, my partner pretended to be the character from the story, and I ask her a question that was my, that helped me the most.
helping the most is is another way that they get to choose which one and tell why.
And again, it surprises me every single time.
Erin Bailey: And that adds another layer of reflection too at the end to ask what strategy did you like the most, or which was the most helpful?
For you because as you mentioned, it's, it's building those metacognitive skills for the students.
I also appreciated what you said.
There's many levels of choice, right?
It's students choosing, but it's also.
Teach students can choose the text.
Teachers can also choose the text, and that's what I really like about this reciprocal teaching, fitting into the science of reading, because I know many, many teachers right now feel constrained by the curriculum that they have.
Going down to what, which text?
They're gonna be able to teach on which days.
Can you talk about how reciprocal teaching fits into science of reading and how it can be layered on top of curriculum that teachers are already using?
Lori Oczkus: Well, I wanna talk about the layered on topic curriculum first, because if you're listening to this, you wanna.
Oh, I love the sound of reciprocal teaching.
How am I going to fit that in the consulting that I do, really all over the world.
In fact, tonight I'm meeting with a school in Australia that's, that I'm gonna work with for the next year.
And so I get, you know, some people I work with 'em twice, some people a lot.
In, in one of the thing, as I'm working in their school district, is.
What's your reading program?
What are your materials?
And I show them how to do it with their materials.
So Erin, they don't have to run out and buy a kit.
You don't have to buy anything for students to read.
You can use it with Newsela, you can use it with your reading series.
You can use it with science, social studies.
Picture books, even Decodables work.
I've done many lessons with Decodables as well.
It doesn't matter what your reading series is, you can do this and it doesn't take a lot of extra time.
Or training, you know, you just kind of have to watch a few lessons and, and figure out how you're gonna do it.
And you know, I have a lot of resources on my website that people can look at that are free.
And then we, we have our webinar with you and other things that can get them started.
But you do not have to have special materials to do this.
And the other question you had was science of reading, which is really critical.
And right now I'm very busy.
Why?
Because reciprocal teaching is.
It always has been evidence-based and science-based.
What does that mean?
That means that it fits into all the ar, other areas of reading that we have.
Vocabulary phonics, phonemic awareness comprehension is.
Of course the crux, if you're not comprehending, you're not reading well.
There's an article that I referenced on my website and I believe I referenced it.
If I did not, I can pass it to you, Erin.
It's from El Duke and David Pearson.
And Alyssa Ward.
The three of them are comprehension experts and they wrote an article for the International Literacy Association called the Science of Reading Comprehension.
And you know why I am referring to it?
Because they do talk about reciprocal teaching and the power of it and how it is a science-based ev, evidence-based method.
The other thing I will refer to is, is there's lots of research we have.
Tons of research for this method.
Evidence that you can get 0.74, which is just a hair under two years, growth in one year.
And Hattie's work, of course, is the best.
And in, in that area, I know he's got the 800 800 meta-analysis.
And he looked at all the different things that teachers do and what's, what is the impact And reciprocal teaching ends up in his ranking of all the things he looked at, what, a hundred?
It's up to 131.
I think he picked.
This is number nine on his list.
Hadie wrote the forward to my book, John Hattie, which is was a big day in my life because I'm doing all these crazy things with reciprocal teaching, fun, engaging, you know, characters and this and that, and we have.
John had a stamp of approval on it that says this is research based.
Also, we look at, at the results that we get, you know, the school that I'm meeting with tonight I had worked with another school in Australia that was number 14 out of 15 schools at the bottom.
In literacy in their area.
And after three years of reciprocal teaching, they la they landed in their testing at number two.
And this is a school with second language learners with aboriginal kids in there and kids in poverty.
And we did it by using reciprocal teaching.
We did not buy special books.
We used all of their books.
And I'm so proud of that.
And I have many, many school examples that I share in my workshops.
That are just like this, where we made dramatic gains in sometimes in three months.
One time I went into Berkeley, California, inner city school, worked with grades four, five, and six, afterschool intervention for 45 minutes using reciprocal teaching, and I carefully trained each of them and they were paraprofessionals teaching it.
What, which I, I recommend that you get a, a teacher with a certificate, but we didn't have anybody available, so we showed them how to do it.
And in just from November until February, we tested our kids pre and post, and everybody went up two years in their reading level.
And these are all intermediate students.
And I've duplicated this in many, many, many school districts.
Why?
Because reciprocal teaching works.
Erin Bailey: Wow, that's amazing, Laurie.
That, I mean, the results are there and I think the power of it is that you can use reciprocal teaching.
With any text.
And that's why it's a strategy and it's not something that goes away if the text goes away.
Right?
Once a student internalizes it, you know, we talked a lot about metacognition once a student internalizes how to ask themselves questions, how to clarify unknown words, how to make a prediction, how to summarize.
They can use that when they're reading on their own.
It's a strategy that can follow them through their entire reading lives, and that's what makes an impact.
Lori Oczkus: And the other thing you just mentioned, all four and teachers in my book, I show this.
I like to use a circle a lot of times, or you know, there are other, other posters that I have.
But you can use 'em in any order.
Like, let's say you're reading a chapter book with a class, you can start with Sunrise.
What did we read yesterday as a reader?
I start with summarize, and I'll even tell kids about my own reading and say, you know, I'm reading this mystery the one that's gonna be a movie soon, and I wanna read it before the movie comes out.
And every chapter I'm, I find myself going back and summarizing briefly what happened in the last chapter before I start reading.
Before I make my predictions.
And so it's just what readers do naturally and I think that's why it's so effective, Erin, that it's it, it just feels good doing it.
And I'm just so proud of the teachers that I've worked with that have implemented it.
And anybody here that's interested, you know, reading is fundamental, has resources to help you with it, but really it's all about scaffolding.
David Pearson has one of my favorite quotes.
He says that scaffolding is the art of teaching.
Erin Bailey: I love that.
Lori Oczkus: School.
Right?
Erin Bailey: Yes.
So we talked, you know, a about reading.
You've also done a writing webinar with us.
I'm wondering if you can share for our listeners what connections there may be between reciprocal teaching and teaching writing.
Lori Oczkus: Oh my goodness.
When you have children read with reciprocal teaching, they remember the content better.
So for example, if you are teaching kids to write expository and you're working on reports and those kinds of things, you know they've gotta do a lot of reading first and they have to really digest the reading in a deep way so that they can write about it.
And what we find with our kids with reciprocal teaching is they do just that.
They're better writers because their reading has improved and they have more to say.
And in fact, if we look at.
Nonfiction alone.
When you're reading informational text you, you comprehend better if you use reciprocal teaching.
And Ray Wright did a study with his team in 2005, university of Utah, and I have this cited in my book, and I've actually met all the people that were part of that study, and I love what they did.
They looked at kids using reciprocal teaching and other multiple strategy approaches and kids who didn't.
They looked at how they read nonfiction, informational text, and they found the kids that had the reciprocal teaching read better, comprehended better.
But there was, they remembered what they read.
So think about it.
If you can read a few things, think critically, have a discussion.
Then when you sit down to write, you have more to say and your writing is much better, much richer.
So I just think it, there's just such a great relationship between reading and writing.
The better you read, the better you're writing it.
Erin Bailey: I've always believed that myself.
I mean, when you're a good reader and you have exposure to a lot of different texts, you, you kind of naturally become a good writer.
You've had good role models.
Um, So this has been wonderful.
Lori, thank you so much.
We always end by asking our guests what does reading inspire for you?
Lori Oczkus: Oh my gosh, that's such a great question.
You know, I, I love Central Park.
Anybody else?
A Central Park fan, anytime of year.
I just, my daughter lived, one of my daughters lived in New York for a while, and I love, it's one of my favorite things to do, walk around Central Park, and I love that.
Is it called Strawberry Fields where you know, near where John Lennon was, was killed?
There's, there's the Imagine.
Sort of emblem and word in the ground there in the sidewalk.
And people are always sitting around playing Beatles songs and it's fabulous.
But I love that word, imagine.
And because I use the Fab Four as a metaphor for reciprocal teaching, it's really a metaphor for success.
And, you know, fisher and fray this is their phrase.
I love it.
We want kids to have.
skill and the will to read.
You know, we want them to learn how to read, but we want them to have that desire to read as well.
So the skill, the will, and last of all, but most of all is the thrill.
Erin Bailey: Oh yes.
Lori Oczkus: The will and the thrill of reading.
And that's really, you know, working on something that seems so basic, like running through reciprocal teaching.
We can make it fun, we can make it engaging and we know that talk promotes literacy and promotes reading.
And reading is everything.
Really, from the time babies are born, we recommend that parents read to them throughout all our lives.
We can read and then, you know, as seniors, I have senior parents I'm taking care of, and, and we read, we read together and I read to them and it's just, it really is.
Beautiful reading is life.
It's how we share everything.
And so thank you for your time today.
And then, oh, the University of Sussex has a great study to look at that I, now, I'm not gonna remember the year, but University of Sussex reading, just put that in and you will see it comes up and it's beautiful.
It's all about, they did research on what reading does for the brain.
And it makes you more empathetic.
It just makes you more human, a kinder person, it's life.
So to me, reading is really all about life.
Erin Bailey: Yes.
Thank you so much.
Flo for spending time with us and sharing your knowledge on reciprocal teaching and inspiring each of us.
Lori Oczkus: Thank you very much for inviting me.