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Welcome to The Crucible, Conversations for the Curious.

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I am Hamish, your host.

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This podcast is for anyone going through awakenings, trying to make sense of life.

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Whether dark nights are the soul, needing to make life -changing decisions, struggling
with addiction or critical illness, or simply realizing that their life as they know it is

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not aligned to values and purpose.

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You are not alone.

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You can get through this, promise you.

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Life is far more beautiful on the other side.

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Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Crucible Conversations with the
Curious.

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I'm here with a dear friend of mine called Steven.

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I met just before I went to rehab and once I got out I contacted him and said can you help
me get my business back online?

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Can you help me make sense of what I'm doing?

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Can you help me?

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Can you help me?

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And he did and he took me through a remarkable journey of getting myself together, helping
me build my confidence, helping

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makes sense of certain things and I'm really delighted he's turned up here today all the
way from Cape Town in the rain to share his story.

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Steven, thank you so much for turning up today.

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I really appreciate

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Hamish, thank you.

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And thank you for the opportunity that you gave me to walk that journey alongside you.

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I really appreciate it because I think there was great, not I think there was, there was
great learning for me out of that.

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And purely because you kind of stepped in and where you were.

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And maybe it's great lesson for me too.

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always comes back to, think, you know, people don't realize the power of when you step,
when you are, when you do own your journey and you're able to speak about it and you kind

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of, you know, face those hidden truths and all your own truths, you give others permission
to do the same.

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So that was very powerful.

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So thank you.

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You helped me get back on the straight and narrow and I still remember that story.

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Hamish, go and find yourself a vision statement." And in about three months I did.

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Yeah.

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Revealing the beauty beyond the noise.

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the noise.

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I'll never forget that.

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It's fantastic.

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I suppose we all have a story to tell.

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Sometimes we just need to tell it.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Well, my friend, now is your time.

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I would love to hear your story.

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Can you tell me a little bit about your story?

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Wow, it's story with a few chapters.

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I'm just trying to think where to start.

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Yeah, you know, if I look back where I am now and some of the things that I've been
through, there's a lot of lessons.

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I don't think those things always have to be sort of low points or bad things.

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But I'm going to probably contradict that a little bit or put little bit of emphasis on
that is those low points that we hit that we are really tough to deal with at the time.

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We don't see the wood for the trees.

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It really is hard.

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And I suppose it's a great sign that we're which is a comforting thought.

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is those low points are the ones that we learn our biggest lessons.

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But I don't always want to focus on that because I'm very grateful for those hard points
that I've prosecuted in my life.

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And they are got some good lessons too.

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start where?

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Fascination for people?

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is maybe with, and that comes from school days.

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But I never realized it or I was never conscious of it until I intentionally went and
discovered it.

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You know, that thing we were talking about earlier is that, you know, that journey of self
discovery, it's not something we all do, but it's something that we all need to do.

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It's not easy.

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It's a tough

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But it's an extremely liberating one, if you're honest with yourself.

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So, yeah.

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So I think, yes, so what came up for me, there was a couple of things.

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It was about that it affirmed to me that I the firm belief that every single one of us,
all eight billion of us, if close enough, has something unique to offer the world.

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We just need to go and discover it and I don't think we ever talk to or shown how to.

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I discovered it extremely late in my life.

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And then those...

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when you do go through that journey of discovery, I think it's then easier.

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It's not easy, but it's easier to maybe face those or to own those truths that...

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and those things like you did.

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And it's extremely...

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it's extremely liberating, you know.

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So, some of the key things that I learned...

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in my journey is, one is, and this my dad taught me is, you can never be bigger than the
game itself.

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And it doesn't matter what game you're in.

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Be it in the sports field, be it in the courtroom, it just in a social environment.

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I think the day that that happens, you'll go backwards.

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So, I don't know if one puts the word humility next to that.

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We need to remain humble in this big, vast world of ours.

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The other thing that I learnt is, I learnt two really key things that were pivotal points
in my journey was that...

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And certainly as, I don't think only as, but certainly as a South African male, it's okay
to ask for help.

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And that you don't have to be bulletproof.

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I I was, but I also thought I had to be.

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Probably just this environment that we brought up in.

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And I learned very quickly that you don't have to be, and then there were great lessons
out of that.

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The first lesson was, I suppose like all business owners or entrepreneurs, and I do make a
different distinction between the two.

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is that yes, we do get caught up in our business.

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We do have to work hard and there's nothing easy.

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Otherwise, we'd all be doing it.

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It's...

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But I think one's got to be very careful that you don't overdo that at the risk of your
own health.

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in service of being there for others, for those that you care about.

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Be it your family, be it people you work with that are working for you, people that you
work with, your close friends.

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And that happened to me because I just worked.

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And we seem to claim this badge of honor for putting in long hours.

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And I know I'm not...

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I'm not oblivious or to the fact that in business and you're certainly in your, if you're
in your own business, that there will be those nights where you're going to put, you know,

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burn the midnight oil and, but it should never ever become, it should be more the
exception than the rule.

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Okay.

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In my case, I made it the rule.

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And I had a go and I didn't burn out, but I got very close to it.

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And I, to the fact point that I had to go and see a psychologist in Johannesburg in those
days at Fitz University and

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She said to me, she didn't even say hello to me when I walked in.

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She just said, you're about a month away from being hospitalized.

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I thought, okay, I love you too.

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And good afternoon, how are you?

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But I must have looked bad.

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So I'm grateful to her because she just went, I must have looked bad because she just went
straight for it.

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And she said to

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She said, tell me something, why do you work like you do?

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I well, I've got people to look after in my business.

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I've got in the factory that I was in, and then I was in partnership with people, with
other people.

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I said, got my family to look after.

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She said, hm, she says, that's interesting.

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She says, you're probably about a month away from being hospitalized and hopefully without
a heart attack.

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And she says, what do you do for yourself to kind of recharge yourself?

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I said, well, I love running.

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I go to gym, to do weights, just to keep fit or keep the muscles strong.

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I play golf and all these wonderful things.

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And she says, that's amazing.

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Then why do you look like you do?

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Because those

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great things to tell us because I do them all in theory.

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you

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And then came the famous question, why?

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I said, because I just don't have time, because I'd be busy touch wood, and I've got to
make sure that all is good.

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And she said, that's interesting.

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So look at the condition you're in.

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And all these people that you tell me that you care for, that you're working so hard to
look after those people that you really care for.

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She said, how good are you going to be to these people that you care for from a hospital
bed and hopefully without a heart attack?

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And that really like...

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That drove the...

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kind of spears straight between my forehead and I thought, it's actually true.

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And that was a big turning point for me is that, you know what, we need to look after
ourselves.

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And this claiming this badge of honor for working 14 hours a day, I think is, if we get to
that and we're doing it consistently, we need to seriously ask ourselves the question,

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why?

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Is our business growing so much and we just, we need to bring other people into it.

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Is it just a habit that we've gotten into?

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But whatever the reason is, it's not sustainable and it's not good.

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And actually you can't give the best and actually those people that you care for, what I
did learn out of it is now I'm giving them probably third or fourth rate, Steven instead

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of first rate, Steven.

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So how much do I really care for them?

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know.

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So maybe that was the universe telling me that I'm not bulletproof.

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That's a common story, isn't it?

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That I'm working to look after everyone and I'm everybody 100%, which is everybody 40 % or
30 % and nothing to myself.

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And as you said, know, my wife, my kids, getting, they're getting that, work's getting
that.

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And if I get sick, they'll just replace me without even caring.

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Sounds like she was a really interesting person.

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Yeah.

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was.

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You know what, Hamish, she did leave me with one thing that I've never forgotten.

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I haven't always implemented it, although I must tell you, I've started implementing it
more intentionally now.

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So that was 1996.

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Okay, so I'm a bit of a slow learner.

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Yeah, a little while after that, but no, but I have.

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intentionally started taking time out for myself, start listening to, I start listening to
those signals, you know, when I'm struggling with something or mentally I'm talking about

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or feel tired or feel exhausted as I started listening to that.

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And, you know, there was something that always stuck with me, you know, because when I
walked out, she said to me, she said, if there's one

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you take away from here.

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She says just remember the most important appointment that you will ever make in your
calendars with

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And I've never forgotten that.

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I've only just started doing it.

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I hope she's not listening.

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So, yeah.

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And I think a big thing, Hamish, is another add on to that is to actually take that time
out that you need without feeling guilty.

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That's a big thing because I would take it out and I think, maybe I should be working on
this, maybe I should be at the office, maybe I should be...

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You're not really taking time out.

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You physically have stepped out, but mentally you're still in it.

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I think that...

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It's easier said than done, but once you do it, and like where I am right now, now I do
it.

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I was sitting in of my computer like this, because a lot of my work is on my laptop, which
I'm extremely grateful for.

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But if I feel, as soon as I feel that I'm hitting this mental downer or the battery is
really running low, I listen to myself.

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I'll close up my computer.

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I have three places in...

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Durbanville, where I live, quite near, all within probably about 10 minutes of me.

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Three different places that I can choose, that I call my happy place.

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They are all coffee shops, but they're not busy places.

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They're just people there.

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It's a place where I can feel comfortable and I can go to and just, if I can say not
think.

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that I do take my laptop with, but my first few minutes that I'm there, I don't know,
sometimes it's five, sometimes it's ten, sometimes it's fifteen, I don't know, that I'm

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there, I won't open my laptop.

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I give myself a chance to transition from the space that I left into the space that I'm
going into.

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And it's just so amazing.

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And then when I do open my laptop and work, not always, but when I do,

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I just seemed to get through the stuff that I was struggling with like this.

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And that for me is important.

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actually that time out should be a part of our business strategy.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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And it's I think I love what you said.

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It's so important to listen to our bodies.

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Ten days ago, Thursday afternoon, Friday afternoon, Saturday afternoon, I was polaxed.

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I was absolutely exhausted.

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So I put myself to bed for a couple of hours every afternoon.

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And normally it's just like I'm wasting time.

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I should be doing this, should be doing that.

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Come Monday morning, I had the busiest week I've ever had.

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I was on Zoom for hours a day doing this, doing courses, doing programs.

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I got to Friday, I could still stand up.

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It was so nice to realize that my body said, you need to sleep, matey, otherwise you're
not gonna get through the week and there's a lot to learn.

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Yeah, I crashed over the weekend, that's fine.

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So it was that very much, you know, all the hard work, but I did the other side to try and
get that harmony of it.

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And I think, yeah, as you said, there's times we have to do that.

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We also have to stop and listen.

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And I'm getting better at that as well, slowly.

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I still feel pangs of guilt.

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yet that guilt is just self -imposed, isn't it?

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It is just self -imposed.

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You know what, it's as you talk about that, you know, we have all these distractions,
which is again, it's mental distractions.

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Like for example, that.

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Sorry.

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That's my cell phone.

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But that, you know, I'd find myself saying to, so I'm addicted to this.

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And I find myself saying to people, saying, this bloody thing.

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But I actually had to think about that.

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This thing is actually pretty good.

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mean, like coming here today, I was stuck in traffic.

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I could get hold of Hamish, who's sitting on the other side of the world with this.

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To say to him, I'm stuck in traffic, I'm running a bit late.

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Okay.

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So this thing is good.

221
00:18:19,185 --> 00:18:20,216
It's not this bloody thing.

222
00:18:20,216 --> 00:18:21,627
It's this bloody thing.

223
00:18:23,262 --> 00:18:32,067
that's addicted to this every time it pings or rings or beeps or something I feel the need
to not even answer to look at

224
00:18:34,046 --> 00:18:36,479
And it's crazy, it's crazy.

225
00:18:36,479 --> 00:18:44,649
So what I did is I decided that I'm now going to turn my data off permanently.

226
00:18:44,649 --> 00:18:53,918
And so that means I can only use this or only get those pings and beeps and all that when
I'm in a Wi -Fi area.

227
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:56,300
And

228
00:18:58,605 --> 00:19:03,067
to my disbelief, where my ego took a hell of a knock.

229
00:19:03,908 --> 00:19:04,828
Okay.

230
00:19:04,828 --> 00:19:11,172
Because I found out one day that for five hours I wasn't on, or four hours, I wasn't on my
phone.

231
00:19:11,172 --> 00:19:19,836
And when I got into a Wi -Fi area at one of my happy spaces, then they all started coming
through, all the WhatsApps.

232
00:19:19,997 --> 00:19:24,339
And I went through them, half of them were probably just chats on groups.

233
00:19:24,639 --> 00:19:27,240
There were probably two three of them that were really...

234
00:19:29,594 --> 00:19:33,497
meaningful and needed to be answered but didn't need to be answered now.

235
00:19:33,918 --> 00:19:41,704
But the big thing when my ego took a knock is I discovered that the world didn't collapse
without Steven Levy for five hours.

236
00:19:42,506 --> 00:19:44,707
Yeah, I was so hurt.

237
00:19:45,281 --> 00:19:48,247
man, not the center of the universe.

238
00:19:48,247 --> 00:19:49,277
Yeah.

239
00:19:50,138 --> 00:19:52,820
And I thought, wow, that's amazing.

240
00:19:52,820 --> 00:20:02,165
So we live in this fast -paced world, and I think we have this thing that, and I'm sure
I'm not the only one, but even if I am, well then, well done to everybody else.

241
00:20:02,385 --> 00:20:10,320
I'm sure that the only one that has feels we have to answer as soon as I get a message, or
we have to, you know, I have to respond now, and I have to actually discover that we

242
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:11,130
don't.

243
00:20:11,911 --> 00:20:13,231
I'm not a doctor.

244
00:20:13,332 --> 00:20:13,863
So...

245
00:20:13,863 --> 00:20:26,293
Yeah, so think we can manage ourselves in this, because it is a fast -paced world because
of technology, so things have changed.

246
00:20:26,293 --> 00:20:34,200
But yeah, I think we can manage how we live in this fast -paced world.

247
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:42,146
It makes us more efficient, the technology, we can do things in this town and so on, but
it doesn't have to take up our time.

248
00:20:42,146 --> 00:20:43,309
We allow it all.

249
00:20:43,309 --> 00:20:44,584
I allowed to.

250
00:20:44,649 --> 00:20:46,125
I allowed it to.

251
00:20:48,199 --> 00:20:48,941
So,

252
00:20:51,370 --> 00:20:52,171
I you're spot on.

253
00:20:52,171 --> 00:21:00,579
I I haven't, I turn my notifications off so it doesn't make that audible beep or vibrate
because yeah, then at least I'm in control.

254
00:21:00,579 --> 00:21:01,991
So I just pick it up more often.

255
00:21:01,991 --> 00:21:03,904
Yeah, I'll own that one.

256
00:21:03,904 --> 00:21:04,764
say again.

257
00:21:05,484 --> 00:21:07,004
Yeah, so you'll get there.

258
00:21:07,004 --> 00:21:11,004
It's like I say to people, know, they say, are you busiest?

259
00:21:11,004 --> 00:21:13,144
Yeah, I'm hell of a busy.

260
00:21:13,524 --> 00:21:16,384
So, but one day when I grow up, I'm going to be productive.

261
00:21:17,644 --> 00:21:20,684
You know, and it's like, we can all be busy.

262
00:21:20,684 --> 00:21:23,664
Can be busy 24 hours a day for one, two.

263
00:21:23,664 --> 00:21:24,344
Busy with what?

264
00:21:24,344 --> 00:21:26,004
We need to ask ourselves.

265
00:21:27,304 --> 00:21:28,408
So, yeah.

266
00:21:28,408 --> 00:21:31,548
So think that was, those were a of lessons.

267
00:21:31,548 --> 00:21:35,908
The other big one was when I went through depression in 2012.

268
00:21:36,848 --> 00:21:39,439
That was harsh for me.

269
00:21:39,439 --> 00:21:41,144
What was the lesson that came?

270
00:21:41,144 --> 00:21:46,982
There were a couple, but the big lesson that came out of that for me was...

271
00:21:46,982 --> 00:21:54,544
I got to a point where I had to do something about it, because otherwise it's just going
down this freaking rabbit hole.

272
00:21:55,465 --> 00:22:00,506
And I got to this point where I still remember it very clearly.

273
00:22:00,506 --> 00:22:13,698
I was sitting in our lounge and I was lying on the couch feeling all sorry for myself,
that the whole world was against even, you know, this victim.

274
00:22:13,698 --> 00:22:14,358
mentality.

275
00:22:14,358 --> 00:22:19,758
I must say had great support from my brother and my sister.

276
00:22:19,758 --> 00:22:22,378
My sister flew to Cape Town to come see me.

277
00:22:22,378 --> 00:22:24,898
I'll tell you a story about that.

278
00:22:26,658 --> 00:22:29,558
But I was lying on the couch and was just like feeling all sorry for myself.

279
00:22:29,558 --> 00:22:36,898
And as I looked up, my daughter at that stage was about, what was she, 32, so, to 12 years
old.

280
00:22:36,898 --> 00:22:41,418
So she was like 20, just probably second year varsity.

281
00:22:41,418 --> 00:22:42,284
But

282
00:22:42,284 --> 00:22:46,561
There was a moment, I can still picture it, don't know why, our eyes just locked.

283
00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:53,111
And it was that moment I thought, Steven, what are you doing?

284
00:22:54,192 --> 00:22:57,932
You may get your shit together, okay?

285
00:22:57,993 --> 00:23:03,614
Get, pull yourself right, and do something about this.

286
00:23:04,734 --> 00:23:11,836
And it was my sister who gave me the name of a clinical psychologist in Cape Town.

287
00:23:12,496 --> 00:23:15,137
And I phoned her, it was a Sunday night.

288
00:23:15,597 --> 00:23:18,688
And she said to me, and this is the lesson.

289
00:23:19,436 --> 00:23:22,757
She said she managed to say that she would see me the next morning.

290
00:23:22,757 --> 00:23:28,108
I don't know if she had an opening or it because she knew my sister, but irrespective.

291
00:23:28,889 --> 00:23:34,370
But she said to me, come see me tomorrow and then we'll see if we get on.

292
00:23:35,449 --> 00:23:42,292
But even if we don't, she says, I must commend you as a South African male for picking up
the phone and asking for help.

293
00:23:43,333 --> 00:23:48,704
And that was the big lesson for me because it was the best thing that I ever did.

294
00:23:49,826 --> 00:23:51,466
spent six months with her.

295
00:23:52,527 --> 00:24:05,253
And now if you ask, I just, it's, need to, if we, we allow to, we should, and we need to
ask for help when we need it.

296
00:24:07,054 --> 00:24:08,514
It's not a weakness.

297
00:24:08,514 --> 00:24:10,175
Again, it's another thing.

298
00:24:10,175 --> 00:24:14,137
think it's, I think it's being irresponsible if we're not.

299
00:24:15,218 --> 00:24:16,738
You know, if you're stuck,

300
00:24:18,026 --> 00:24:21,709
in your vehicle or somewhere, we ask for help.

301
00:24:21,990 --> 00:24:29,297
But when we get stuck in our own lives, get in our own way, why is this thing that we
don't want to ask for help?

302
00:24:29,297 --> 00:24:32,710
It's a question I ask myself, but I don't ask that anymore.

303
00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:34,661
I happily ask for help.

304
00:24:36,715 --> 00:24:45,719
think that is a beautiful message because, yeah, we catastrophize, we wander, our worlds
get smaller.

305
00:24:45,719 --> 00:24:50,831
I mean, I'm just going straight back to before I ask for help and everything gets smaller.

306
00:24:50,831 --> 00:25:02,456
You try and squeeze it together and, okay, men are conditioned or expected not to ask for
help and have that mask on and be capable and stuff, but we're not.

307
00:25:02,456 --> 00:25:04,297
We're not capable all the time.

308
00:25:05,569 --> 00:25:09,549
And when I asked for help, I finally asked for help.

309
00:25:09,549 --> 00:25:12,729
I asked somebody who I knew a little bit and he knew none of my friends.

310
00:25:12,729 --> 00:25:14,029
So much shame.

311
00:25:14,209 --> 00:25:16,709
And I said to him, look, I think I've got a problem.

312
00:25:17,349 --> 00:25:18,449
I think I've got a drinking problem.

313
00:25:18,449 --> 00:25:19,609
And he said, so?

314
00:25:19,609 --> 00:25:21,788
I went to rehab 18 years ago.

315
00:25:21,788 --> 00:25:25,649
Of all the people in the world I could pick, I picked someone who was an ex -alcoholic.

316
00:25:25,649 --> 00:25:27,549
I mean, thank you.

317
00:25:27,929 --> 00:25:29,609
And no judgment.

318
00:25:29,909 --> 00:25:31,489
So, you know, he didn't recriminate.

319
00:25:31,489 --> 00:25:33,409
He didn't say, whatever.

320
00:25:35,717 --> 00:25:39,438
And that was the start of my journey, but we have to.

321
00:25:39,978 --> 00:25:42,519
If I hadn't done that, who knows what would have happened.

322
00:25:42,619 --> 00:25:47,321
If you hadn't, you might have gone down my route, you might have done something stupid.

323
00:25:47,961 --> 00:25:52,502
It is irresponsible not to help, but we don't.

324
00:25:53,123 --> 00:25:56,564
Unfortunately, we don't because it's being fun and all.

325
00:25:56,564 --> 00:25:57,021
Yeah.

326
00:25:57,021 --> 00:25:57,841
is, Hamish.

327
00:25:57,841 --> 00:25:58,902
We conditioned like that.

328
00:25:58,902 --> 00:26:03,764
And it's, I think we need to check that, you We need to, we often, we need to check that.

329
00:26:03,764 --> 00:26:14,349
And you said something earlier, we need to, we need to be okay with the fact that we, we,
we, somewhere along the line, we do need help.

330
00:26:15,756 --> 00:26:18,167
we do need to ask for help.

331
00:26:18,167 --> 00:26:22,399
If we knew everything and were that good at everything, first of all, we wouldn't need
each other.

332
00:26:22,399 --> 00:26:24,919
I think, you know, just to...

333
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:37,362
It's funny, we're okay to ask for help with certain things, maybe these tangible material
things, but when it comes to ourselves, you know, if my car is...

334
00:26:37,843 --> 00:26:42,964
I don't mind asking for help to put more petrol in my car when it's stuck.

335
00:26:44,382 --> 00:26:54,299
I don't mind asking someone to check my battery because I think it's dying and I need to
change it or recharge it.

336
00:26:54,900 --> 00:26:56,320
My car battery.

337
00:26:56,561 --> 00:27:01,404
I Steven's battery is so for some reason, so I value my car more than me.

338
00:27:04,887 --> 00:27:09,470
It is insane when I'm sitting and thinking and talking about it to you, I'm thinking,
goodness me.

339
00:27:09,470 --> 00:27:12,582
And you know, I mean you, sure.

340
00:27:13,642 --> 00:27:17,296
better than anyone else, you know, you've walked that journey.

341
00:27:17,437 --> 00:27:27,027
And you know it's big standout for me and a lesson that also, that I learned from you was
exactly that, it was about owning it.

342
00:27:27,509 --> 00:27:34,176
Because when you owned it, that's when you spoke out about it, but not to the world, spoke
out about it for Hamish.

343
00:27:35,946 --> 00:27:38,973
and then you can speak about it freely like today.

344
00:27:41,376 --> 00:27:42,464
because you owned

345
00:27:42,653 --> 00:27:44,724
Yeah.

346
00:27:44,724 --> 00:27:45,614
It is powerful.

347
00:27:45,614 --> 00:27:47,724
It is part of a healing process.

348
00:27:47,724 --> 00:27:53,726
It is opening the doors on all that shame and just saying, I acted like a numpty.

349
00:27:53,726 --> 00:28:01,788
I did all sorts of stupid things and I can carry on beating myself for the rest of my life
or I can realize that I've changed.

350
00:28:01,788 --> 00:28:03,989
I don't need to do that anymore.

351
00:28:05,109 --> 00:28:09,250
But I had no idea how to do that until I asked for help.

352
00:28:10,142 --> 00:28:14,524
Yes, exactly, exactly.

353
00:28:14,524 --> 00:28:18,380
the hardest thing i ever did absolutely was

354
00:28:19,109 --> 00:28:23,416
How did you feel if you don't mind me asking how did you After you asked for help.

355
00:28:24,700 --> 00:28:26,823
I know it's the hardest thing to ask.

356
00:28:27,615 --> 00:28:28,838
How did I feel?

357
00:28:28,838 --> 00:28:30,428
No, I won't use that expression.

358
00:28:30,428 --> 00:28:35,610
I felt that I had absolutely been let off the hook.

359
00:28:36,210 --> 00:28:38,391
Totally and unconditionally.

360
00:28:38,391 --> 00:28:42,352
All that, I don't want to tell anyone, so ashamed, so embarrassed.

361
00:28:42,612 --> 00:28:43,862
And then, so what?

362
00:28:43,862 --> 00:28:45,613
Okay, well, let's chat.

363
00:28:45,613 --> 00:28:52,575
know, it was like everything that I had stacked on my head, I didn't need to.

364
00:28:52,575 --> 00:28:54,435
He just said, so what?

365
00:28:54,435 --> 00:28:56,576
You know, I had just...

366
00:28:56,658 --> 00:29:00,570
built it up into a monster when really it was a little breeze.

367
00:29:02,973 --> 00:29:04,384
So yeah, I just couldn't believe it.

368
00:29:04,384 --> 00:29:05,465
I don't think I cried then.

369
00:29:05,465 --> 00:29:11,659
A couple of hours later, I was in floods of tears going down the west coast towards Comiky
and beyond.

370
00:29:11,659 --> 00:29:13,339
yeah, was...

371
00:29:14,241 --> 00:29:15,822
Just everything changed.

372
00:29:18,004 --> 00:29:23,007
I had opened a door and stepped through and left everything behind.

373
00:29:24,368 --> 00:29:28,504
Obviously I had to go to rehab and make a sense of things, I'd left all that shame...

374
00:29:28,504 --> 00:29:30,237
No, I hadn't.

375
00:29:30,237 --> 00:29:33,712
I'd left all that preconceived fear behind.

376
00:29:33,712 --> 00:29:34,109
Yeah.

377
00:29:34,109 --> 00:29:34,970
Yeah.

378
00:29:36,133 --> 00:29:37,033
Yeah.

379
00:29:38,197 --> 00:29:40,039
Because you asked for her.

380
00:29:40,141 --> 00:29:47,183
Because you took ownership or responsibility for where you were.

381
00:29:48,092 --> 00:29:49,113
That's a bit noble.

382
00:29:49,113 --> 00:29:50,713
I had two choices.

383
00:29:51,354 --> 00:29:57,216
It was either drink, drive, crash, kill, or get sober.

384
00:29:57,697 --> 00:30:00,158
I'd come down to two choices.

385
00:30:00,158 --> 00:30:02,719
And I took the one that I wanted.

386
00:30:02,719 --> 00:30:03,620
I wanted to live.

387
00:30:03,620 --> 00:30:05,641
So I had to, yeah, I did take ownership.

388
00:30:05,641 --> 00:30:08,182
I had to choose one.

389
00:30:08,903 --> 00:30:09,843
So yes, I did.

390
00:30:09,843 --> 00:30:10,495
Thank you.

391
00:30:10,495 --> 00:30:14,401
So it's not, it's not, because you still had a choice.

392
00:30:14,422 --> 00:30:20,551
Some of us just choose, maybe could have chosen to stay the other road to the easier
route.

393
00:30:22,973 --> 00:30:25,286
not necessarily the right drift but the easier route.

394
00:30:25,434 --> 00:30:26,587
Absolutely.

395
00:30:28,281 --> 00:30:34,592
Especially, and I say that with respect, I mean you can comment on that more than me, but
it's like...

396
00:30:37,062 --> 00:30:39,003
It's not easy to...

397
00:30:39,003 --> 00:30:42,845
because when you're in it, you know, it's like your...

398
00:30:44,207 --> 00:30:49,620
it's like your kind of security net, know, whatever you're using.

399
00:30:49,620 --> 00:30:54,373
it's alcohol, drugs, trippin...

400
00:30:55,234 --> 00:30:59,167
But any of those like things that you're using is become...

401
00:30:59,167 --> 00:31:00,978
whatever you use becomes your...

402
00:31:00,978 --> 00:31:02,929
So it's not easy just to let it go.

403
00:31:02,929 --> 00:31:03,619
Yeah.

404
00:31:03,912 --> 00:31:04,384
crutch.

405
00:31:04,384 --> 00:31:09,650
But yeah, think it is, it's pretty liberating.

406
00:31:10,893 --> 00:31:14,778
Maybe it's something that we all need to go through, I don't know.

407
00:31:14,778 --> 00:31:19,203
I don't know why, but maybe it's something we need to go through, it's a lesson.

408
00:31:21,299 --> 00:31:26,543
I think people go through all sorts of awakenings and making sense.

409
00:31:29,086 --> 00:31:31,237
Because I mean, you certainly have, haven't you?

410
00:31:31,237 --> 00:31:43,528
know, when you were, when you became aware of that impending burnout, you had to, you had
to make a decision, am I going to carry on that pigheaded South African maleness or am I

411
00:31:43,528 --> 00:31:45,439
going to change?

412
00:31:45,439 --> 00:31:47,181
And I had to do the same.

413
00:31:47,181 --> 00:31:50,079
Other people on the podcast have come to

414
00:31:50,079 --> 00:31:52,860
that fork in the road and had to make that decision.

415
00:31:53,261 --> 00:31:58,064
And it is scary because all that familiar, that alcohol kept me safe.

416
00:31:58,064 --> 00:32:02,826
That first glass, fantastic, no more cares, no more anything to give.

417
00:32:03,226 --> 00:32:06,047
But my heart was just breaking every time.

418
00:32:06,047 --> 00:32:11,321
And so was my spirit, everything and my body, you it just laid down.

419
00:32:11,321 --> 00:32:14,753
And it was, I had to make that choice.

420
00:32:14,753 --> 00:32:16,184
I had to own it, as you said.

421
00:32:16,184 --> 00:32:19,505
I think it's in that you mentioned something also, it's that want.

422
00:32:19,505 --> 00:32:20,466
How much do I want?

423
00:32:20,466 --> 00:32:22,146
How much do I want it?

424
00:32:22,967 --> 00:32:40,134
You know, because I think it's only when we want it enough, that we will, we'll kind of do
something about it, or step out of that proverbial comforts, or that zone that we think is

425
00:32:40,134 --> 00:32:41,194
comfortable.

426
00:32:42,215 --> 00:32:43,675
But it's not really.

427
00:32:44,536 --> 00:32:45,816
But it's safe.

428
00:32:46,123 --> 00:32:46,673
It's safe.

429
00:32:46,673 --> 00:32:48,225
Yeah.

430
00:32:48,225 --> 00:32:49,246
That's where you've nailed it.

431
00:32:49,246 --> 00:32:52,118
I mean, I would hope nobody has to get to the depths that I did.

432
00:32:52,118 --> 00:32:54,290
A lot of people have got worse.

433
00:32:54,290 --> 00:32:56,502
You know, I'd hope no one got to the depths that you did.

434
00:32:56,502 --> 00:33:02,076
A lot of people do that burnout and it is that awareness.

435
00:33:02,076 --> 00:33:12,905
is that, you know, the scared and then when it suddenly becomes, actually want to, I'm
going to have to face that scared or I'm going to have to face that boss or that addiction

436
00:33:12,905 --> 00:33:14,146
or whatever.

437
00:33:16,087 --> 00:33:16,524
Yeah.

438
00:33:16,524 --> 00:33:21,687
Yeah, I think it's just, it's that funny thing called life.

439
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:28,602
I suppose that's how we grow and learn.

440
00:33:30,863 --> 00:33:37,606
If I look back at some of the stupid things I've but some of them were fantastic.

441
00:33:38,407 --> 00:33:40,507
They were fantastically stupid.

442
00:33:40,673 --> 00:33:55,161
I mean, I'm still, yeah, so things I don't know, but it's, some of them were close call,
but yeah, I think the big thing is what we've been chatting about is what are the lessons?

443
00:33:56,302 --> 00:34:02,025
Because if you take a lesson from it, and then I suppose that's where our growth comes
from.

444
00:34:03,086 --> 00:34:08,809
You know, if you don't take a lesson, then you just keep going south.

445
00:34:10,620 --> 00:34:12,321
the same pattern.

446
00:34:13,664 --> 00:34:20,931
So what did you do then when this doctor said to you, Steven you need to think about
making some changes?

447
00:34:20,931 --> 00:34:28,679
What did you do to reassess that direction to obviously make those life changes?

448
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,282
What did you decide to do?

449
00:34:31,282 --> 00:34:39,373
No, it made me think I had to really consciously give thought to just re -look at the...

450
00:34:39,373 --> 00:34:43,278
not really look at my life, look at the way I was living it.

451
00:34:45,304 --> 00:34:50,356
and saying, are you going to kind of adjust or tweak?

452
00:34:50,356 --> 00:34:54,758
Because it's not big adjustments that one has to make.

453
00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:01,081
know, certain, I think, maybe probably behavioral habits that you need to change.

454
00:35:02,022 --> 00:35:07,324
This thing that I need to be at my factory every evening to lock up.

455
00:35:08,745 --> 00:35:10,457
But yet I've got a factory manager.

456
00:35:10,457 --> 00:35:15,328
And there were one or two other people that could have locked up.

457
00:35:15,909 --> 00:35:17,899
But no, Steven's out there, what does he do?

458
00:35:17,899 --> 00:35:20,130
Drive all the way back to the factory.

459
00:35:20,130 --> 00:35:21,930
I don't know, is it a control thing?

460
00:35:23,211 --> 00:35:24,871
Because I've got to lock up.

461
00:35:24,931 --> 00:35:29,012
mean, how amazing is that I locked the door?

462
00:35:29,312 --> 00:35:34,914
And so I think that's the other way.

463
00:35:34,914 --> 00:35:39,665
I think it's just about what do need to stop doing?

464
00:35:39,971 --> 00:35:44,775
and also honoring myself.

465
00:35:45,776 --> 00:35:49,489
That really made me have a look at what I truly value.

466
00:35:51,131 --> 00:35:55,114
and then understanding how am I living that, those values.

467
00:35:55,114 --> 00:36:06,742
Because if I tell you I truly value family, which I do, does my behavior align to how much
I value it?

468
00:36:06,762 --> 00:36:09,324
And at that stage, the answer was no.

469
00:36:09,464 --> 00:36:19,351
Yes, it was before my family, because I'm looking after the business, yes, that's what
generated our income and living.

470
00:36:20,861 --> 00:36:27,257
But, if you have to ask, not at the expense of my family, and it nearly was.

471
00:36:28,838 --> 00:36:29,799
It's...

472
00:36:30,060 --> 00:36:32,253
I mean my wife was my absolute rock.

473
00:36:32,253 --> 00:36:35,393
She's even still with me.

474
00:36:35,693 --> 00:36:38,033
Yeah, 39 years.

475
00:36:38,753 --> 00:36:53,473
So that's, think, yeah, her mission, honestly, I think it made me really re -look at what
I value and how am I aligned to it in terms of living it.

476
00:36:53,473 --> 00:36:59,153
Because just to have a set of values, I think is...

477
00:37:01,511 --> 00:37:06,024
Just to have it as a checkbox exercise means absolutely nothing.

478
00:37:06,024 --> 00:37:13,880
But when you have them and they're real, those core things that you've re -ripped out,
boy, you're to rip your heart out.

479
00:37:16,162 --> 00:37:18,544
I think that's important.

480
00:37:18,544 --> 00:37:33,216
So I learned also the power of values and heart, because I don't walk around telling
people, I value health, I value respect, I value personal development, I value...

481
00:37:33,216 --> 00:37:35,418
They will see it in my behavior.

482
00:37:36,902 --> 00:37:52,426
If Hamish says to me, Steven, let's go out on Thursday night and I said, no, I've got
training because I'm really looking after my health in whatever way or form.

483
00:37:53,847 --> 00:38:01,349
I said, but I'll tell you what, I'll either see you afterwards or maybe tomorrow we'll get
together, but I really need to go and train.

484
00:38:01,349 --> 00:38:04,790
So immediately, I'm telling you how much I value my health.

485
00:38:05,106 --> 00:38:09,152
I don't say to you that health is a value of mine, it's through my behavior, my actions.

486
00:38:09,152 --> 00:38:11,235
And they're great things to learn too.

487
00:38:11,235 --> 00:38:14,497
great reference point for when we're not when we're living them.

488
00:38:14,497 --> 00:38:16,558
When we're living them, it's easy.

489
00:38:16,678 --> 00:38:18,459
I don't need to check in on them.

490
00:38:18,459 --> 00:38:20,100
It's when I'm not living them.

491
00:38:20,761 --> 00:38:32,167
Because, you know, I don't know if you've experienced that, when you're not living your
land to what you truly value, you'll feel uneasy.

492
00:38:32,487 --> 00:38:39,291
And we need to then sometimes just stop and question that or again unpack that and see
what is this about.

493
00:38:41,698 --> 00:38:42,478
Yep.

494
00:38:43,639 --> 00:38:44,480
Yeah.

495
00:38:45,661 --> 00:38:47,222
I remember doing that with you.

496
00:38:47,222 --> 00:38:51,765
You asked me to look at my values, what was important.

497
00:38:51,765 --> 00:38:55,567
And you gave me a list of a piece of paper with lots of values on it.

498
00:38:56,068 --> 00:39:00,942
You were gobsmacked when I ripped it all up and then put them down on the floor and made
sense of it.

499
00:39:00,942 --> 00:39:06,846
absolutely, because I am now living aligned to my values, my heart and what's important.

500
00:39:07,030 --> 00:39:10,372
And I look in the mirror and these things are shining.

501
00:39:10,493 --> 00:39:12,774
Five years ago, they were like holes.

502
00:39:13,895 --> 00:39:16,677
And that I know what's important.

503
00:39:16,677 --> 00:39:22,201
And if it's scary, because I know what's important, it's becoming effortless.

504
00:39:22,201 --> 00:39:23,532
It's not easy, necessarily.

505
00:39:23,532 --> 00:39:24,883
I still get out of my comfort zone.

506
00:39:24,883 --> 00:39:29,105
But Hamish's compass is pointing that way now.

507
00:39:30,547 --> 00:39:35,470
And yeah, that exercise in what is valuable, valuable.

508
00:39:35,802 --> 00:39:42,389
That exercise in what is my values, what is important to me, really helped me make sense
of things.

509
00:39:44,832 --> 00:39:47,465
I got a sense of purpose back really, which I didn't have.

510
00:39:47,465 --> 00:39:48,587
I I loved what I did.

511
00:39:48,587 --> 00:39:53,421
Yeah, I think that's really powerful.

512
00:39:53,529 --> 00:39:57,241
Yeah, you love what you do, but you're not just coasting along in it.

513
00:39:58,643 --> 00:40:03,666
You know, you go out and actually do something towards it.

514
00:40:03,706 --> 00:40:22,719
And I think, I think that's in, that's important, you know, and there's just, we've, I
feel just very blessed to be on this journey of growth and experience.

515
00:40:24,099 --> 00:40:30,604
It's a bit of a messed up world that we live in, but it's a wonderful world.

516
00:40:30,604 --> 00:40:32,705
Make what you like of that statement.

517
00:40:32,705 --> 00:40:41,451
But it is because we still have so much to be grateful for.

518
00:40:42,352 --> 00:40:52,099
I even say like, and I'm talking about small things like even waking up in the morning and
getting, and you're still alive, you're breathing.

519
00:40:53,307 --> 00:40:56,919
You know, we just, we forget about that.

520
00:40:57,343 --> 00:40:58,906
We take it for granted.

521
00:41:00,817 --> 00:41:06,149
But sure, I've seen a couple of my colleagues who didn't wake up the next morning.

522
00:41:06,349 --> 00:41:07,989
Certainly through COVID.

523
00:41:09,050 --> 00:41:21,454
And guys that are friends of mine that I speak to, long -time friends that are really,
really suffering with like terminal illnesses.

524
00:41:21,454 --> 00:41:24,895
It's just, he said

525
00:41:25,863 --> 00:41:36,530
There were three of us and he said on Saturday night, he said to myself and the other
friend, said, I'm telling you, if I can give you guys a running, so this guy's got that

526
00:41:36,530 --> 00:41:38,931
stage four cancer.

527
00:41:41,211 --> 00:41:43,670
And he says he could have picked it up early.

528
00:41:45,553 --> 00:41:53,868
But he put these pains that he was feeling and everything, he didn't go and get it checked
out, he just put it down to stress.

529
00:41:53,868 --> 00:41:55,429
in his business.

530
00:41:56,590 --> 00:42:05,166
But I think it was about a year later, he went and got it checked out, but then it was
already too late.

531
00:42:05,166 --> 00:42:06,099
That's it.

532
00:42:06,099 --> 00:42:08,758
You guys need to go for a check up once you're at least.

533
00:42:08,758 --> 00:42:10,072
getting so young.

534
00:42:11,650 --> 00:42:13,207
Yep, I'll just do it next week.

535
00:42:13,207 --> 00:42:15,174
I'll just do it next month.

536
00:42:15,174 --> 00:42:16,943
Yeah, suddenly it's three years later.

537
00:42:16,943 --> 00:42:18,415
Yeah.

538
00:42:18,938 --> 00:42:20,781
I mean, just look at this year.

539
00:42:22,927 --> 00:42:25,594
I mean, goodness, we already knocked out the August.

540
00:42:25,594 --> 00:42:28,040
It's insane.

541
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:29,524
It's just gone.

542
00:42:29,524 --> 00:42:29,945
It's

543
00:42:29,945 --> 00:42:39,270
But I think, you know, I think people that go through things like, like, like, like what
you went through, what I went through, what my mates going through, all on different

544
00:42:39,270 --> 00:42:51,478
levels, different skills, but whatever it is, I think listening to, like listening to you,
listening to my mate, it kind of puts things a little bit in perspective for us.

545
00:42:51,478 --> 00:42:57,898
You know, it's not safe because he, because of where he is, I mean, he doesn't drink a
riozo.

546
00:42:57,898 --> 00:43:01,698
He had a cup of tea, either brandy or Coke.

547
00:43:01,718 --> 00:43:03,018
Coke Zero.

548
00:43:04,398 --> 00:43:05,638
Very important.

549
00:43:05,638 --> 00:43:11,678
Brandy's got like 10 times the amount of sugar that Coke's got, but Coke Zero made me feel
better.

550
00:43:13,258 --> 00:43:18,138
So, yeah, it's just...

551
00:43:18,138 --> 00:43:19,989
I've lost my train of thought now.

552
00:43:19,989 --> 00:43:20,810
Why did I say that?

553
00:43:20,810 --> 00:43:21,623
That he

554
00:43:22,929 --> 00:43:28,601
It's all around the importance of looking after yourself and making sense of things and
the journey that we're on.

555
00:43:28,683 --> 00:43:32,319
And it puts things in perspective.

556
00:43:32,319 --> 00:43:35,783
I drove home and I thought, well, it made me think a bit.

557
00:43:36,085 --> 00:43:38,759
If you want to do things, you need to do it.

558
00:43:38,759 --> 00:43:41,870
You know, it's incredible.

559
00:43:42,150 --> 00:43:46,832
So I really think that sometimes these things happen to us.

560
00:43:46,832 --> 00:43:48,593
We don't see it at the time.

561
00:43:48,953 --> 00:43:53,515
But there was something that I keep next to my bed from my late mom.

562
00:43:54,075 --> 00:43:58,147
And without going through it in its entirety, it's in a little frame.

563
00:43:58,147 --> 00:44:01,028
The paper in the frame is yellowed.

564
00:44:01,028 --> 00:44:02,198
It's so old.

565
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,780
But it's something that says that we

566
00:44:07,857 --> 00:44:09,554
God doesn't always give us what we want.

567
00:44:09,554 --> 00:44:11,613
He generally gives us what we need.

568
00:44:11,613 --> 00:44:12,764
That's true.

569
00:44:13,380 --> 00:44:18,743
Absolutely.

570
00:44:19,704 --> 00:44:21,785
Reading in between the lines of what you said there.

571
00:44:21,785 --> 00:44:29,310
So if we are able to look at everything that happens and rather go, it happened, but what
can I learn from it?

572
00:44:29,310 --> 00:44:32,111
Then you're generating some magic, aren't you?

573
00:44:32,154 --> 00:44:33,094
Yeah.

574
00:44:34,415 --> 00:44:35,695
Absolutely.

575
00:44:36,556 --> 00:44:37,356
I think so.

576
00:44:37,356 --> 00:44:37,996
Yeah.

577
00:44:37,996 --> 00:44:51,792
You know, we've, but we have to continuously ask ourselves those questions and be honest
with ourselves because there's still plenty of times that I don't live a line to my

578
00:44:51,792 --> 00:44:52,802
values.

579
00:44:53,522 --> 00:44:56,063
That you can feel, I can feel it when I'm not.

580
00:44:56,063 --> 00:45:00,239
I'm just, I might not be sure which one, but I'll go and check it

581
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:05,537
is one out of the top five or six that will just say that's it.

582
00:45:07,261 --> 00:45:09,790
Generally you're right, know, it's like your instinct.

583
00:45:09,794 --> 00:45:12,306
How many times have you trusted your instinct and been wrong?

584
00:45:12,306 --> 00:45:13,900
We don't trust that.

585
00:45:13,900 --> 00:45:14,880
a lot.

586
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,240
But I think life's fascinating.

587
00:45:19,180 --> 00:45:34,160
It's you know, if I look, it's not always the diners, like, I mean, one thing that I
remember, so clearly, was in 86 when I had ...

588
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:39,860
85, I think, or 86, around two oceans and 86 around the Comrits.

589
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,981
And I just had a

590
00:45:42,981 --> 00:45:48,239
absolute clear vision of what Kings Park and Derby do, even though I've never been there.

591
00:45:50,378 --> 00:46:03,544
And I knew what it looked like and I even had a clear visual of, you know, the digital
camera, the finish line, with the time on that I wanted to achieve.

592
00:46:03,544 --> 00:46:08,607
But then, for those six to eight months, you know, I really trained.

593
00:46:08,607 --> 00:46:13,856
No fancy foods, no alcohol at all.

594
00:46:16,161 --> 00:46:20,320
And if I look back, there was actually a tonne life that I really enjoyed.

595
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,104
I don't know if it's...

596
00:46:25,087 --> 00:46:25,678
smooth

597
00:46:25,678 --> 00:46:38,646
I think it's just the lesson of just being conscious of what you're doing and how is it
impacting you and actually not only you, you and others, those around you.

598
00:46:39,107 --> 00:46:44,790
Because you said earlier, you know, if we don't do anything about it, then we're really
selfish.

599
00:46:44,984 --> 00:46:46,963
So, yeah, I don't know

600
00:46:46,963 --> 00:46:54,927
So there's a good lesson, it's when I ran to Cormorant, that was a lesson from success,
because I achieved the time that I wanted to.

601
00:46:55,008 --> 00:47:12,210
But the lesson from that was, if you are willing, sorry we were talking about the want, if
you wanted that bad, that you're willing to make the sacrifice for it, or do any doing or

602
00:47:12,210 --> 00:47:13,651
attacks, then you

603
00:47:13,651 --> 00:47:16,847
you know, then it's a good...

604
00:47:16,847 --> 00:47:19,002
then it's a good...

605
00:47:19,002 --> 00:47:21,827
then you'll do it and then they're good lessons from it.

606
00:47:21,827 --> 00:47:25,705
But I think exactly what you said is, how much do you want it?

607
00:47:25,705 --> 00:47:28,328
You you got to a point where you stuck.

608
00:47:28,328 --> 00:47:30,730
You said you had, well, you did have a choice.

609
00:47:31,592 --> 00:47:39,020
You just wanted the other one badly, with more than, sorry, you you just wanted the other
one more than the other one.

610
00:47:39,020 --> 00:47:40,080
Thank God.

611
00:47:41,236 --> 00:47:42,988
But I think that is so important though, isn't it?

612
00:47:42,988 --> 00:47:46,422
Once you've made that decision, go for it.

613
00:47:47,585 --> 00:47:50,558
Running the comrades, remind me how far that is.

614
00:47:50,558 --> 00:47:54,223
Remind me how much effort is required for that.

615
00:47:54,223 --> 00:47:56,395
Because it's not just a little marathon, is it?

616
00:47:56,821 --> 00:47:58,781
No, it's 90 kilometers.

617
00:47:58,921 --> 00:48:00,741
it's...

618
00:48:00,741 --> 00:48:12,241
And you know, you can, it doesn't matter how well prepared you are, or how fit you are, on
the day, anything can, over that distance, anything can go wrong, which it did.

619
00:48:12,301 --> 00:48:15,381
Not, not that I actually had a good run.

620
00:48:17,801 --> 00:48:21,961
So it was my, it was a good day for me.

621
00:48:22,473 --> 00:48:28,277
The group of guys I trained with, my mates, some of them had the run, some cough, muscle
injuries, just...

622
00:48:29,898 --> 00:48:31,720
just wasn't their day.

623
00:48:31,720 --> 00:48:32,180
They were...

624
00:48:32,180 --> 00:48:34,531
it wasn't that they had trained any less or any...

625
00:48:34,531 --> 00:48:40,545
or prepared themselves any less than I did, or sacrificed as...

626
00:48:40,786 --> 00:48:42,027
we all, we trained together.

627
00:48:42,027 --> 00:48:44,729
So, there were great lessons.

628
00:48:44,729 --> 00:48:46,810
One of the lessons was...

629
00:48:48,111 --> 00:48:49,592
for me is that...

630
00:48:51,689 --> 00:48:54,750
Don't, if you've got a goal, don't ever...

631
00:48:56,191 --> 00:48:57,812
How much do you want it?

632
00:48:57,992 --> 00:49:01,834
And don't even not believe that you will achieve it.

633
00:49:02,634 --> 00:49:06,336
And some people are going to say, but she's that simple, but unrealistic.

634
00:49:07,517 --> 00:49:09,778
Don't believe that you can not achieve.

635
00:49:09,778 --> 00:49:14,680
Make peace of the fact that you might not achieve the outcomes that you want on the day.

636
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,881
But in your preparation work.

637
00:49:17,277 --> 00:49:24,185
Not once when I was training for comrades did I ever think, sure, I'm not going to, I just
trained.

638
00:49:24,947 --> 00:49:33,477
No, if I carry on training like this, because at those days I read Bruce Fordhouse's book
and he was the king of comrades then.

639
00:49:34,018 --> 00:49:36,501
So I thought, okay, well, who better to learn from?

640
00:49:38,269 --> 00:49:43,157
So I stuck to a training regime and I thought, okay, well, if you...

641
00:49:43,157 --> 00:49:45,600
You know what is funny in that book, Hamish?

642
00:49:46,523 --> 00:49:52,343
He said your 90k comrade will be determined by your 8k time trial.

643
00:49:52,343 --> 00:49:56,149
I'm thinking that this guy's on drugs.

644
00:49:56,149 --> 00:49:59,115
And he was right.

645
00:49:59,115 --> 00:50:03,005
So I think sometimes also who we seek help or advice from is also important.

646
00:50:03,005 --> 00:50:04,405
No, absolutely.

647
00:50:04,666 --> 00:50:11,048
I'm just looking back to your going for something, seeking for something, setting a...

648
00:50:11,048 --> 00:50:13,560
I'm going to start that again because that's a lisp.

649
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:17,381
I'm going back to your setting that goal and a target.

650
00:50:17,402 --> 00:50:25,455
After I left university, I decided I wanted to get into the TV industry and I went down to
London, back again, down to London for six months.

651
00:50:25,455 --> 00:50:27,886
I went down to London pretty much twice a month.

652
00:50:28,104 --> 00:50:30,136
I want to get into the TV industry.

653
00:50:30,136 --> 00:50:34,198
Interviews, conversations, meetings, free work.

654
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:36,439
I got the job.

655
00:50:36,540 --> 00:50:39,802
Eventually I got that job that I wanted and that took me around the world.

656
00:50:39,802 --> 00:50:43,795
I made TV, I did documentaries, but I had to do that.

657
00:50:43,795 --> 00:50:45,706
I had sacrifice getting a job at home.

658
00:50:45,706 --> 00:50:50,629
I had part -time stuff so I could get down to London when I was called.

659
00:50:52,020 --> 00:50:58,152
worth the effort, worth the sacrifice, worth that hard work and sweat, blood and tears and
frustration.

660
00:50:58,152 --> 00:51:00,797
Yeah, it's...

661
00:51:00,797 --> 00:51:02,478
I think it's...

662
00:51:04,101 --> 00:51:07,824
you know, we all have good and bad habits.

663
00:51:09,546 --> 00:51:16,200
We'll change those bad habits when we want to, or when we want to enough.

664
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:16,655
Yeah.

665
00:51:16,655 --> 00:51:19,388
And I think that's like anything.

666
00:51:21,071 --> 00:51:24,694
I look at these brave men and women that climb Everest.

667
00:51:25,336 --> 00:51:28,910
And I don't think about what is it that makes you want to go up there.

668
00:51:28,910 --> 00:51:30,341
The risk is death.

669
00:51:31,683 --> 00:51:33,505
They want it more than death.

670
00:51:35,676 --> 00:51:36,399
Thank

671
00:51:38,858 --> 00:51:43,823
So it's that, yeah, that want, how much do I want it?

672
00:51:44,365 --> 00:51:45,306
Well, that's the first one.

673
00:51:45,306 --> 00:51:51,803
And then the second one is, if I wanted that bad, be like the example I gave you, how much
are you prepared to do what it takes to get it?

674
00:51:53,789 --> 00:51:55,866
I think that's the trick.

675
00:51:56,892 --> 00:52:01,294
then also thinking about it, you wanted that job to work.

676
00:52:01,294 --> 00:52:09,917
You put all those hours into it to make it work, to build it up and that was your want and
then someone said, you know, do you want your family?

677
00:52:09,917 --> 00:52:11,787
Just like, hell yeah, I want them even more.

678
00:52:11,787 --> 00:52:19,360
So you had that, you know, you, I don't think you can be too rigid on anything because
you've just got to keep, well, keep aware, isn't it?

679
00:52:19,633 --> 00:52:20,594
Yeah.

680
00:52:21,176 --> 00:52:29,869
I think that awareness helps you deal with those changes or those unexpected changes or
those unexpected challenges that come along.

681
00:52:30,330 --> 00:52:32,373
It's very much about your awareness.

682
00:52:34,589 --> 00:52:48,477
And I think when you are that self aware of what you do, with the understanding that not
everybody will do it your way, is great.

683
00:52:50,549 --> 00:52:51,811
It really is.

684
00:52:51,812 --> 00:53:00,728
So yeah, think, you know, you asked the story, there's so many life lessons that I could
share.

685
00:53:02,777 --> 00:53:07,322
I mean, where do you stop?

686
00:53:07,322 --> 00:53:09,044
Because there's so much learning.

687
00:53:09,044 --> 00:53:11,035
It's amazing.

688
00:53:12,572 --> 00:53:13,415
Okay, then we'll...

689
00:53:13,415 --> 00:53:23,011
Those learning opportunities, those lows, those great learning opportunities, and we need
to seek them out and embrace them.

690
00:53:23,011 --> 00:53:25,113
Okay, then so here's one for you.

691
00:53:25,113 --> 00:53:32,090
We've got people listening to the show and they are working hard, working very hard.

692
00:53:32,090 --> 00:53:34,622
They've got that balance wrong.

693
00:53:34,622 --> 00:53:47,314
How would you encourage them to spot that or understand that I'm working, I'm working, I'm
working, I've got a goal, but family's slipping, personal health is slipping?

694
00:53:47,787 --> 00:53:50,789
the gym slipping, the drinking is going up.

695
00:53:50,910 --> 00:53:52,842
There's that lack of balance.

696
00:53:52,842 --> 00:53:56,815
How would you encourage someone to spot things like

697
00:53:58,254 --> 00:54:03,128
I think very much be in touch with yourself.

698
00:54:03,429 --> 00:54:17,091
And if you haven't done that, first of all, we have to check in, know, what is this, if
I'm not, it'll send out its own signal because purely by the fact that they might ask

699
00:54:17,091 --> 00:54:22,295
themselves, Jesus, I'm not happy here in this space.

700
00:54:22,295 --> 00:54:24,097
It's not that I can do anything about it.

701
00:54:24,097 --> 00:54:24,979
We know.

702
00:54:24,979 --> 00:54:30,014
You know, we know, I've been out on a drinking spree.

703
00:54:30,014 --> 00:54:36,659
Do you think, I, you know, because I enjoy my running and my swimming, I know it's stupid.

704
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:42,124
I say to myself, Steven, you're yourself up and I'll just, and I'll carry on.

705
00:54:43,426 --> 00:54:46,668
So I think we know, we just got to.

706
00:54:49,117 --> 00:54:52,675
Do we have the courage to honor ourselves?

707
00:54:52,675 --> 00:54:55,087
And whatever that is, just...

708
00:54:55,087 --> 00:55:05,973
and then maybe it might require just standing out from the crowd and being really truthful
to yourself.

709
00:55:07,921 --> 00:55:10,176
You don't have to lose friends, don't have to lose people.

710
00:55:10,176 --> 00:55:14,186
Because when you do, when you get to that level

711
00:55:14,186 --> 00:55:25,974
of understanding and awareness, I think that it's easier because you're able to
communicate it.

712
00:55:26,394 --> 00:55:39,673
It's easier to deal with the crowd and just, know, down the skies, enjoying your company,
happy with what I've got, having my coke, I'm not going to you.

713
00:55:39,673 --> 00:55:43,486
I'm saying there's anything wrong with having a drink and that, but...

714
00:55:43,550 --> 00:55:44,430
It's...

715
00:55:44,592 --> 00:55:47,455
yeah.

716
00:55:47,455 --> 00:55:49,917
I think the big thing is...

717
00:55:50,739 --> 00:55:53,272
that level of self -awareness and being...

718
00:55:53,272 --> 00:55:55,264
listening to your body.

719
00:55:56,667 --> 00:55:59,060
When you're feeling out of sorts, there's a reason.

720
00:55:59,060 --> 00:56:02,118
And it might not always be somebody else, it might be yourself.

721
00:56:02,118 --> 00:56:04,618
our egos might say something external.

722
00:56:06,910 --> 00:56:11,122
But, you know, it really is.

723
00:56:11,122 --> 00:56:11,783
Who was it?

724
00:56:11,783 --> 00:56:13,183
Louise Hayes.

725
00:56:14,364 --> 00:56:19,927
Louise Hayes, have you read her book that Healing Yourself or something?

726
00:56:20,168 --> 00:56:28,392
I can't remember the thing, but you know, she says disease is exactly that, it's a dis
-ease.

727
00:56:30,366 --> 00:56:36,601
When you feel that this is, it's something that you are not aligned to.

728
00:56:36,601 --> 00:56:45,026
So, I would just say to people, know, just take, when you're feeling uneasy about
something, step back.

729
00:56:45,127 --> 00:56:47,508
What we would like, we were talking about earlier.

730
00:56:48,309 --> 00:56:51,951
Stick back and kind of have a look at it, what is happening.

731
00:56:52,332 --> 00:56:55,314
And, but it will require you to be honest with yourself.

732
00:56:55,314 --> 00:56:57,996
And if you're not happy with it, do something about it.

733
00:56:58,536 --> 00:57:02,224
And if you're not doing something about it, then you're too comfortable with being
uncomfortable.

734
00:57:04,273 --> 00:57:07,207
Yeah, yeah, I love that.

735
00:57:07,207 --> 00:57:07,627
is.

736
00:57:07,627 --> 00:57:12,294
It's accountability and a bit of self responsibility, isn't it?

737
00:57:12,294 --> 00:57:16,719
And that is uncomfortable, but it's yeah, you've got choices.

738
00:57:17,181 --> 00:57:20,204
Yeah, stay suffering or make a change.

739
00:57:20,681 --> 00:57:21,581
Yeah.

740
00:57:22,003 --> 00:57:25,668
But to know to make the changes, it's not always easy.

741
00:57:25,668 --> 00:57:32,296
But again, it comes back to the change that what is the outcome I'm looking for and the
change that I want to make.

742
00:57:32,477 --> 00:57:35,130
I'm not prepared to do what it takes to get there.

743
00:57:36,060 --> 00:57:38,871
Yeah, I think I think you've absolutely nailed it there.

744
00:57:38,871 --> 00:57:44,553
And it's when you give it some structure and form, you know, it is scary.

745
00:57:44,553 --> 00:57:45,544
But what do you want?

746
00:57:45,544 --> 00:57:51,826
If you can get that end goal, and you can see that it makes it you've got a frame of
reference.

747
00:57:51,826 --> 00:57:53,897
I'm here, I want to get to there.

748
00:57:53,897 --> 00:57:58,239
And then suddenly, that potential becomes possible, doesn't it rather than I'm unhappy?

749
00:57:58,239 --> 00:58:00,770
Well, I'm unhappy.

750
00:58:01,390 --> 00:58:03,371
I'm unhappy, you know.

751
00:58:03,434 --> 00:58:05,014
So I just sound happy.

752
00:58:05,235 --> 00:58:06,856
I mean, you just...

753
00:58:08,017 --> 00:58:08,937
Yeah.

754
00:58:09,999 --> 00:58:12,401
Yeah.

755
00:58:12,401 --> 00:58:14,102
It's like Google Maps.

756
00:58:14,102 --> 00:58:16,143
If we speak into the...

757
00:58:16,384 --> 00:58:21,167
I don't come out of the tech world, but I do understand Google Maps at least.

758
00:58:22,669 --> 00:58:25,751
it's like, you know, if

759
00:58:26,396 --> 00:58:29,917
If I come over to the UK and say, hey me shits, we're going to meet for coffee.

760
00:58:29,917 --> 00:58:36,730
And you say to me, okay, Steven, let's meet at the local coffee shop and I'll send you the
address.

761
00:58:36,730 --> 00:58:38,820
No, just give me, give me the pin location.

762
00:58:38,820 --> 00:58:39,470
I'll get there.

763
00:58:39,470 --> 00:58:40,391
I'll tell you how to get there.

764
00:58:40,391 --> 00:58:42,121
No, give me the pin location.

765
00:58:43,442 --> 00:58:47,623
So I put the pin location in and I open my Google Maps.

766
00:58:47,623 --> 00:58:49,964
And the first thing it asked me is where you're going.

767
00:58:51,922 --> 00:58:57,890
And the second great thing you want to know is what's your current location because unless
it's got those two points, you're not going to find out how I'm going to get the best

768
00:58:57,890 --> 00:58:59,161
route to get there.

769
00:59:00,324 --> 00:59:01,866
So we need to know where we're going.

770
00:59:01,866 --> 00:59:04,749
And then, then I have a choice.

771
00:59:05,070 --> 00:59:06,312
How much do I want to get there?

772
00:59:06,312 --> 00:59:09,557
And I've got to just get in my car and drive there and I'll meet Hamish.

773
00:59:09,557 --> 00:59:10,357
Yep.

774
00:59:10,538 --> 00:59:17,342
And I remember you said it might be like that, but it might be like that.

775
00:59:17,342 --> 00:59:20,314
And it might be it might be like that to get it.

776
00:59:20,314 --> 00:59:21,455
I remember you telling that to me.

777
00:59:21,455 --> 00:59:23,556
It's not necessarily the you don't know the journey.

778
00:59:23,556 --> 00:59:27,489
You've got the destination, but it might not be a straight line.

779
00:59:29,210 --> 00:59:42,729
But at least I know, so even if you come back to the Google Maps analogy, it's like, so
now I'm on my way to you and there's for some reason another roadblock or, you know, I

780
00:59:42,729 --> 00:59:44,790
have to make a detour.

781
00:59:45,090 --> 00:59:47,690
I don't phone you and say I'm not coming to see you.

782
00:59:47,690 --> 00:59:55,310
I'll just phone you and say, or WhatsApp you and say, I'm going to be still being there at
2 .30, I'm going to be there at 3

783
00:59:56,504 --> 00:59:57,411
but I still care to

784
00:59:57,411 --> 01:00:00,594
But yeah, it's lot easier said than done.

785
01:00:00,594 --> 01:00:06,057
It comes back to, think, understanding who you are.

786
01:00:06,278 --> 01:00:08,259
And what is it that energizes you?

787
01:00:08,259 --> 01:00:11,031
And what is it that makes you tick?

788
01:00:11,031 --> 01:00:14,244
And what is it that makes you do things the way you do?

789
01:00:14,244 --> 01:00:19,768
Because we can both have the same outcome that we try to achieve, but we will do it
differently.

790
01:00:19,768 --> 01:00:23,591
Because I can never be Hamish, and Hamish can never be Steven.

791
01:00:25,379 --> 01:00:28,210
And you know, it's hard, it's hard enough being yourself.

792
01:00:28,210 --> 01:00:29,908
Why would you want to try and be someone else?

793
01:00:29,908 --> 01:00:30,889
but we do that.

794
01:00:30,889 --> 01:00:33,190
mean flip, I've done it.

795
01:00:33,691 --> 01:00:36,212
So, and sometimes I still do.

796
01:00:37,174 --> 01:00:39,015
I just catch myself a lot

797
01:00:40,635 --> 01:00:42,080
think that's it, isn't it?

798
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:43,253
It doesn't become easier.

799
01:00:43,253 --> 01:00:44,347
We just get better at it.

800
01:00:44,347 --> 01:00:46,371
It does not become easier.

801
01:00:46,644 --> 01:00:49,345
represent, I represent.

802
01:00:50,146 --> 01:00:56,190
So yeah, but that's what makes this whole journey of love so fascinating.

803
01:00:56,190 --> 01:01:05,975
And you've actually, just, you know, Hamish, I must tell you, just a line, just chatting
about it has, it's just amazing.

804
01:01:07,719 --> 01:01:13,942
We've probably had these chats a million times, but every time you change it, it's just
that reminder, you know?

805
01:01:13,942 --> 01:01:17,474
We need that bit of a refresher to say, actually, you know what?

806
01:01:17,474 --> 01:01:21,185
It's not that bad, You know?

807
01:01:21,306 --> 01:01:22,466
Well, just get on with it.

808
01:01:22,466 --> 01:01:23,847
Go and do it.

809
01:01:25,831 --> 01:01:29,713
just own it or, you know, we need those, we all know about it.

810
01:01:29,713 --> 01:01:34,755
But sometimes we need to do it and just talking about it is amazing.

811
01:01:34,755 --> 01:01:51,902
So honestly, I think what you're doing and allowing people to speak in a safe space, just
that in itself will help.

812
01:01:52,642 --> 01:01:54,663
It's immense value

813
01:01:56,049 --> 01:02:01,309
to people because sometimes that's all they need to do, just speak.

814
01:02:01,309 --> 01:02:02,960
You know, not even look for the...

815
01:02:03,380 --> 01:02:06,682
They might not even be looking for you to give them answers.

816
01:02:07,163 --> 01:02:09,284
They just want to speak.

817
01:02:10,846 --> 01:02:17,830
I I've said in a coaching session where people have, believe it or not, said, I've said
hardly anything.

818
01:02:18,351 --> 01:02:19,431
And...

819
01:02:20,732 --> 01:02:21,473
Yeah.

820
01:02:21,473 --> 01:02:24,535
And someone just said, that was amazing.

821
01:02:24,535 --> 01:02:29,157
And I'm thinking, I say a word, hardly, I said five words.

822
01:02:29,278 --> 01:02:29,838
No.

823
01:02:29,838 --> 01:02:30,930
Thank you for listening.

824
01:02:30,930 --> 01:02:36,930
I think that's so important isn't it when you can make space for listening to people.

825
01:02:37,112 --> 01:02:39,695
So many people do not get listened to.

826
01:02:41,619 --> 01:02:43,090
Yeah, you're right.

827
01:02:43,372 --> 01:02:44,272
It's...

828
01:02:45,095 --> 01:02:47,288
Yeah, it's a big thing.

829
01:02:47,288 --> 01:02:51,476
I don't think we realize that it's the power of listening.

830
01:02:51,476 --> 01:02:54,228
You know, we always feel we have to...

831
01:02:54,228 --> 01:03:04,926
if someone is feeling out of sorts or not, or has got a bit of a problem, suddenly, we
feel we need to have an answer for them, not always.

832
01:03:05,347 --> 01:03:07,288
Sometimes we just got to listen to them.

833
01:03:08,209 --> 01:03:10,631
In talking they'll find their own answer.

834
01:03:12,133 --> 01:03:14,174
Or just to get it off their chest.

835
01:03:14,735 --> 01:03:16,487
That might be all that's required.

836
01:03:16,487 --> 01:03:18,393
We're a fascinating bunch.

837
01:03:20,370 --> 01:03:22,031
We really are, aren't we?

838
01:03:22,031 --> 01:03:27,124
Our own worst enemy and our own success stories and everything in between.

839
01:03:27,124 --> 01:03:28,095
It is.

840
01:03:30,797 --> 01:03:31,857
Yeah.

841
01:03:35,380 --> 01:03:37,661
I wouldn't want to change much.

842
01:03:38,639 --> 01:03:39,830
Yeah, exactly.

843
01:03:39,830 --> 01:03:49,947
And we have to go through those things to really appreciate the value of whatever that
lesson is.

844
01:03:50,076 --> 01:03:53,687
Yeah, I think so too.

845
01:03:54,228 --> 01:03:56,779
Well, Steven, this has been a fabulous conversation.

846
01:03:56,779 --> 01:04:07,313
It's been lovely to catch up, lovely to hear your laid back laconic wisdom and your
thoughts and just chew the cud a bit with you.

847
01:04:07,313 --> 01:04:08,833
Yeah, no, it's been fab.

848
01:04:09,159 --> 01:04:12,101
No, and thank you Hamish for chatting.

849
01:04:12,101 --> 01:04:16,423
Thank you and well done to you because you're a great inspiration.

850
01:04:16,423 --> 01:04:21,276
And it's so awesome that you're doing what you love.

851
01:04:21,276 --> 01:04:31,891
And you know, you're just giving so many people in the world the opportunity to maybe do
what you did.

852
01:04:33,232 --> 01:04:37,995
You're giving them permission to do that and you're showing

853
01:04:38,531 --> 01:04:41,815
if they really want to there is a bright side.

854
01:04:41,815 --> 01:04:42,997
They're absolutely it.

855
01:04:42,997 --> 01:04:43,747
are.

856
01:04:44,929 --> 01:04:47,851
So yeah, I salute you.

857
01:04:49,353 --> 01:04:50,393
Well done.

858
01:04:50,534 --> 01:04:54,477
And it's so nice to see you loving what you're doing.

859
01:04:54,569 --> 01:04:56,350
I absolutely am yeah.

860
01:04:57,291 --> 01:05:04,116
Steven where can people find out more about you, your what you do and how you serve
people?

861
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:08,223
CNN, Sky, no, I'm kidding.

862
01:05:09,646 --> 01:05:14,685
No, that wonderful little platform called LinkedIn.

863
01:05:14,685 --> 01:05:21,219
I can't spell my LinkedIn link, but they can find my other...

864
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:22,060
other...

865
01:05:22,060 --> 01:05:28,095
just type in my name, which was Steven with a V, and then L -E -V -Y.

866
01:05:28,095 --> 01:05:35,510
Well, I must try this, because the social media lady that I'm working with, she's...

867
01:05:35,510 --> 01:05:41,494
I didn't know that, but LinkedIn has a business page, so now I've got dare to be on my
business page, they can even...

868
01:05:43,679 --> 01:05:49,446
I've still got to make the shift, but I'll figure that out.

869
01:05:49,967 --> 01:05:52,841
Yeah, it's the same

870
01:05:52,841 --> 01:05:59,785
I do, I'm probably more active on LinkedIn, just because of the, you know, the space that
I'm operating.

871
01:06:01,166 --> 01:06:08,511
I'm not a big, and I'm not really, my wife's a big Facebook fan, and I'm not.

872
01:06:08,872 --> 01:06:15,696
So, I go and look at it now and again, with the notification pops up, but I do post on it.

873
01:06:16,646 --> 01:06:22,018
So the post that I do that at Motivational Monday, I post across all three platforms.

874
01:06:22,959 --> 01:06:26,331
But I think the right space for me is LinkedIn.

875
01:06:27,331 --> 01:06:33,794
And then my websites, they're dare to be D -A -R -E, numerical number two, B

876
01:06:36,019 --> 01:06:36,380
Brilliant.

877
01:06:36,380 --> 01:06:41,254
other side, So, yes.

878
01:06:41,555 --> 01:06:45,760
If they want to chat or want to do anything, just have a chat.

879
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:46,530
It's awesome.

880
01:06:46,530 --> 01:06:52,946
But I would recommend to them that they connect with you, because you give them the space
to chat.

881
01:06:54,451 --> 01:06:55,493
Thank you very

882
01:06:55,838 --> 01:06:57,627
and you're gonna challenge them.

883
01:06:57,701 --> 01:06:58,928
Absolutely.

884
01:06:59,137 --> 01:06:59,648
Yep.

885
01:06:59,648 --> 01:07:10,311
going to challenge them to speak about the things that they maybe don't want to speak
about and you're going to play it to other, for the people, others to hear.

886
01:07:10,311 --> 01:07:15,463
So, yeah, I think that's a, it's a great thing.

887
01:07:15,463 --> 01:07:19,484
I suppose they can come and chat and we just chat here.

888
01:07:19,484 --> 01:07:22,885
Eventually, hopefully the outcome is that they'll be able

889
01:07:24,636 --> 01:07:29,341
Again, I don't want to risk repeating myself, earn it, but you're doing the same thing.

890
01:07:29,341 --> 01:07:32,679
We just probably do it through different vehicles, but you're doing it the same

891
01:07:35,005 --> 01:07:35,885
Thank you for that.

892
01:07:35,885 --> 01:07:37,446
That's very kind.

893
01:07:37,826 --> 01:07:40,567
And most importantly, the last question.

894
01:07:41,608 --> 01:07:50,804
What is the superpower you got from making sense of that change you had to do courtesy of
that shrink in Wits University?

895
01:07:50,804 --> 01:07:52,135
superpower.

896
01:07:52,836 --> 01:07:55,007
I don't know if this is correct.

897
01:07:55,007 --> 01:07:56,398
I've had this superpower.

898
01:07:56,398 --> 01:07:58,000
What is my superpower?

899
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:16,094
I think it's the ability and humbly, okay, guide and support people on their journey to
discovering themselves and just unleashing that uniqueness that they have in you.

900
01:08:16,094 --> 01:08:18,576
And I always say, you know what the best thing is?

901
01:08:19,277 --> 01:08:20,197
Just

902
01:08:21,379 --> 01:08:30,076
To allow them to be, I'll tell you what my superpower, and I'll actually, here's a bit of
advertising, but it's true.

903
01:08:30,076 --> 01:08:32,967
Okay, dare to be you.

904
01:08:33,388 --> 01:08:35,930
I allow people to dare to be themselves.

905
01:08:37,655 --> 01:08:38,706
Perfect.

906
01:08:39,652 --> 01:08:40,263
Perfect.

907
01:08:40,263 --> 01:08:40,833
think that is...

908
01:08:40,833 --> 01:08:47,066
because I had to do that and that's exactly where the name came from on my practice.

909
01:08:47,707 --> 01:08:52,741
Because I had to go on that journey of self -discovery and I had to dare to be me.

910
01:08:52,741 --> 01:09:06,203
So, yeah, and I would love to allow people or challenge them to dare to be themselves
because when you are, when you do, and I'm still on the journey, it's so liberating.

911
01:09:08,421 --> 01:09:10,058
So nice to be yourself.

912
01:09:10,058 --> 01:09:11,814
Not everybody else agrees, but I...

913
01:09:11,814 --> 01:09:12,885
Wonderful.

914
01:09:12,885 --> 01:09:14,476
I think that is a great one.

915
01:09:14,476 --> 01:09:15,647
Dare to be yourself.

916
01:09:15,647 --> 01:09:22,362
And I think that is so powerful because I find myself saying that when I'm talking to be
just people dare to be yourself.

917
01:09:22,362 --> 01:09:26,595
And every time I say that, yeah, you spring to mind.

918
01:09:27,527 --> 01:09:33,731
And it actually, you know what it does, know, Hamish, and I don't know if you experienced
this.

919
01:09:33,731 --> 01:09:39,395
Because that's what you are asking people to do on your podcast.

920
01:09:39,395 --> 01:09:44,689
But there's also great, great, I get my greatest lessons from my clients.

921
01:09:45,690 --> 01:09:50,064
Because sometimes I have to, after a session, go back and check and say, Steven, are you
doing this?

922
01:09:50,064 --> 01:09:51,273
So it's a great job.

923
01:09:51,273 --> 01:09:52,457
It's wonderful.

924
01:09:54,414 --> 01:09:56,068
Thank so much for today.

925
01:09:56,068 --> 01:09:57,721
I've enjoyed it.

926
01:09:57,721 --> 01:10:00,758
It's been really, really precious.

927
01:10:00,758 --> 01:10:02,141
Really, really super to catch up with you.

928
01:10:02,141 --> 01:10:03,472
So thank you so much.

929
01:10:03,472 --> 01:10:03,922
Thank you.

930
01:10:03,922 --> 01:10:07,434
We will be in touch.

931
01:10:08,275 --> 01:10:11,878
And yeah, keep doing what you're doing and make a difference in the world.

932
01:10:12,584 --> 01:10:16,944
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Crucible: Conversations for the Curious.

933
01:10:16,944 --> 01:10:25,584
If these powerful stories of transformation resonated with you, be sure to like, subscribe
and share this show with anyone who you think could do with a dose of inspiration for

934
01:10:25,584 --> 01:10:26,524
their own journey.

935
01:10:26,524 --> 01:10:33,104
I would really appreciate it if you could make any comments on your favourite podcast
platform as well, that helps me reach more people.

936
01:10:33,104 --> 01:10:36,564
All the important links and information are in the show notes below.

937
01:10:36,564 --> 01:10:39,648
Thank you very much for listening and catch up with you soon.