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Eben Alexander: There are
millions of other butterflies.

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Looping and spiraling in
these vast formations,

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and down below in this
verdant, fertile meadow,

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there were thousands
of beings dancing lots

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of joy and merriment.

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I remember children playing,

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dogs jumping,

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incredible festivities,

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and it was all being fueled
because up above were

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these swooping orbs of

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angelic choirs that were
emanating chants and anthems,

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hymns that would just
thunder through my awareness.

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Rod Bland: My guest today is

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Dr.

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Eben Alexander, A
neurosurgeon and author of

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the brilliant book, Proof
of Heaven which details

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a near death experience
that he had in 2008.

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Eben, welcome and thank you so
much for coming on the show.

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Eben Alexander: Well, Rod,
thanks so much for having me.

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It's great to be with you.

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Rod Bland: Alright, so I think
to get started, I'd like to

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ask what your understanding
of human consciousness was

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prior to your NDE and how
your medical training informed

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that perspective and then
if you could take us through

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the events that led up to
and including your NDE.

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Eben Alexander: Okay.

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I had a very kind of
conventional upbringing

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in terms of my
scientific understanding.

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My father was very
influential in my life.

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He was a globally
renowned neurosurgeon.

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He also was very spiritual.

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He had a strong belief in
God and power of prayer,

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but, like so many of us who
grew up in the 60s and 70s,

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I always knew science was
the pathway to truth, and as

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much as I might have wanted
to believe what I heard

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in that Methodist church
growing up in North Carolina

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Science was going to
guide my way to any

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kind of understanding of
the nature of reality.

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And the conventional training
I had at both Duke and then

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when I worked at Harvard
medical school teaching

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neurosurgery for 15 years,

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was basically the notion of
materialism or physicalism.

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And that's basically the
metaphysical position

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that all of that exists
is the physical world.

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And therefore, if we
can fully understand

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everything that governs the
interactions of the particles

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that make up that world.

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Then we can understand
all of causality and

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all of the nature of
our unfolding reality.

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In fact, that materialist
science that I worshipped

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before my coma, and I do
not use that term lightly

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would scoff at you for
claiming to have free will.

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Because that science
claimed that it was all

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just chemical reactions,
electron fluxes, and the

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substance of the brain.

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It gave us an illusion
of free will, an illusion

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of conscious awareness.

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But that ultimately it was all
predetermined by the laws of

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physics, chemistry, biology.

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And that was the
hard core position.

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But that's really where you
went if you believed that

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conventional scientific...

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Training,

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which basically said our
existence is birth to

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death and nothing more.

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When our physical brain
and body die, that's the

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end of conscious awareness.

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My journey back in 2008
showed me that just

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the opposite is true.

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We are conscious in
spite of our brain.

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And that's really where
I think all of this gets

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a lot more exciting.

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And the proof to
me was very solid.

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In the form of the
severe case of Bacterial

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Meningoencephalitis.

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You couldn't have come up
with a better laboratory prep

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to try and mimic human death

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than what I went through.

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This kind of severe meningitis
is a perfect model for human

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death because it selectively
destroys the neocortex

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and then the brainstem.

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The pieces of the brain
that are most responsible,

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according to modern
neuroscience, for our detailed

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human conscious awareness.

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And yet...

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The medical details of
my case made it crystal

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clear that brain was in no
shape to harbor any kind

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of dream or hallucination.

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And that's something that
I discuss in the book Proof

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of Heaven, but that point
is greatly amplified by the

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medical case report written
by three doctors not

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involved in my care that
came out in the Journal of

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Nervous and Mental Diseases

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in September of 2018.

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Dr.

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Surbhi Khanna, Lauren
Moore, and Bruce Grayson

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were fascinated by my
recovery, and that's why

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they wrote this case report.

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And in fact, when they were
challenged by the peer review

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editors of that journal,
how do you explain this?

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This is unprecedented in
the medical literature.

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Have somebody this ill from,
a week in deep coma from

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gram negative bacterial
meningoencephalitis with all

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the lab parameters, Glasgow
Coma Scales, 6 or 7, and

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anything below 9 is deep coma.

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And all the lab values,
that's what haunted me,

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was when I was reviewing
my own medical records.

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and remembering everything
that I went through,

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that brain was in no
position to construct

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any such elaborate
hallucination or dream.

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That's why the scientific
community takes my story

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so incredibly seriously.

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And that's why some people
who try to take me down with

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ad hominem attacks cling
desperately to their hope that

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this, their claim that this
was a medically induced coma.

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They are denying the
facts of the case that are

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absolutely a beautiful
gift to humanity.

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And that is, no, this
extraordinary experience

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happened but wasn't
caused by my brain at all.

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The fact of the matter was
I was so close to death and

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so far gone from this world
that I could experience

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this extraordinary spiritual
journey that I had.

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And that's really, to
me, the magic of it all.

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And I can dive briefly into
what all that involved,

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and then we can talk about
some of the details and

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why it's important to the
scientific community and

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all that kind of thing.

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Rod Bland: Yeah, I think
it's especially for people

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that haven't read your book
or anything, I think it'd

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be good to understand, what
actually led to the meningitis

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and then, what happened once
you were in the hospital and

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things started to go south.

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Eben Alexander: We
never ever determined

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a cause why I had an E.

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coli bacterial
meningoencephalitis.

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That was never discovered.

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It turns out important to
point out in my journey, I

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had a very atypical feature
for near death experiences.

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And that is a pretty
complete amnesia for the

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life of Eben Alexander.

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I had no memories of
the personal events

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of my life, none of my
religious teachings,

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none of my scientific
knowledge of cosmology,

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physics, neuroscience,
quantum physics, etc.

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None of that made it in.

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I had a really an empty slate.

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And in looking back on
it, I've come to realize

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that every near death
experience is tailored for

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the individual who has it.

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That's ultimately the
reason these things occur.

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But there are NDEs that
are so remarkable that

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it's of great interest to
to this world at large.

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In fact, I think all NDEs can
be very instructive to this

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world at large because they
paint a beautiful picture.

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That we're all in this
together and that the

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binding force of love is
absolutely there connecting

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us with each other and
with the universe at large.

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So my beliefs before coma were
really strongly that of that

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materialist scientist that
brain creates consciousness,

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and then of course fearing
that when the brain and body

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die awareness comes to an end.

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The opposite is what I
experienced, and it all

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started in what I call
the earthworm's eye view.

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A very primitive course,
unresponsive realm, it was

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like being in dirty jello.

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Seemed to go on for
a very long time,

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even though I'm sure I
didn't have a memory of

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moment to moment, eternity
would seem like a reasonable

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length of time that I
experienced all that, but

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I was rescued, luckily,

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by this slowly
spinning white light.

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They came towards me and
it opened up like a rip

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in the fabric of that ugly
earthworm eye view, as I

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call that initial stage.

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And it led me up through
this light portal into

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this brilliant, ultra
real gateway valley.

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And that's the part that's
so hard to explain to people.

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It was much more
real than this world.

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Much more detailed,
much more memorable,

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much more meaningful.

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Much more transformational.

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This was an extraordinarily
rich environment in

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which I found myself.

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It makes this world
look very murky and

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dreamlike by comparison.

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Now that Gateway
Valley, it had a lot

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of earth like features.

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I was a speck of awareness
on a butterfly wing.

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There are millions
of other butterflies.

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Looping and spiraling in
these vast formations,

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and down below in this
verdant, fertile meadow,

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there were thousands
of beings dancing lots

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of joy and merriment.

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I remember children playing,

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dogs jumping, incredible
festivities, and it was

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all being fueled because

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up above were these swooping
orbs of angelic choirs that

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were emanating chants and
anthems, hymns that would just

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thunder through my awareness.

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And the best thing about the
whole scene I'm describing

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to you is I wasn't alone.

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There was a beautiful
woman sitting beside me

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on this butterfly wing
and she looked at me

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with a look of pure love.

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Sparkling blue eyes,
high cheekbones, high

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forehead, broad smile.

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She was dressed in the same
kind of simple garb of all

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the beings dancing down below,
but it was very colorful.

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Really, colors
beyond the rainbow.

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And when I say this world
is ultra real, do understand

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this is the realm where

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people would have life
reviews, where your life

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would flash before your eyes
and you would relive the

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events, not just remembering.

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And also those events in
a life review are commonly

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described as being from the
perspective of others around

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us who were impacted by our
actions and even our thoughts.

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In other words, your life
review is a beautiful

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example of how we're
all in this together.

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And if you hurt another,
you're hurting yourself.

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If you hand out a lot
of pain and suffering...

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In the life review, you have
to be on the receiving end of

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that to see what it felt like.

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And the life review is
there to serve as a course

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correction, because another
major part of the scientific

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evidence for the reality
of this broader concept

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of mind we're talking
about is the scientific

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evidence for reincarnation.

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And the University of
Virginia, which is about

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12 miles from where I'm
sitting right now, For

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the last six decades,

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they've studied more
than 2, 700 cases of

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past life memories in
children indicative of

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reincarnation, of which 1,
700 of the cases were solved.

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That is, they found
the person who was

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described by the child.

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So this much bigger vision
of consciousness is one that

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is here in the scientific
community and certainly

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in my very neighborhood.

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Now, I was discovering
this for my own on this

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extraordinary journey.

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And this beautiful message
that came to me from

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this lovely spiritual
guide, the guardian angel

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on the butterfly wing.

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was you are deeply loved
and cherished forever.

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You have nothing to fear.

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You are richly cared for.

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And I cannot tell you how
reassuring and validating

249
00:10:27,171 --> 00:10:28,761
that was in that moment.

250
00:10:29,151 --> 00:10:31,501
And it was around that
time that I witnessed

251
00:10:31,501 --> 00:10:33,671
the soft summer breeze
that blew through.

252
00:10:34,011 --> 00:10:36,791
And that breeze essentially
changed everything because

253
00:10:37,031 --> 00:10:40,681
given my complete amnesia and
complete lack of knowledge

254
00:10:40,681 --> 00:10:44,421
or of any kind of history of
connection with human thought

255
00:10:44,786 --> 00:10:47,586
that summer breeze was my
first awareness of that

256
00:10:47,616 --> 00:10:49,796
infinitely loving God force.

257
00:10:49,796 --> 00:10:53,386
And I came back from this
incredible journey realizing

258
00:10:53,386 --> 00:10:56,706
that it doesn't matter if
you want to call that deity

259
00:10:56,716 --> 00:11:00,146
God or Allah, Brahman,
Vishnu, Jehovah, Yahweh,

260
00:11:00,146 --> 00:11:01,486
whatever the words are.

261
00:11:01,786 --> 00:11:05,156
The truth of the matter
is more than 90% of near

262
00:11:05,156 --> 00:11:08,186
death experiencers from all
different faith traditions

263
00:11:08,496 --> 00:11:12,176
and, many who were previously
agnostic or atheistic.

264
00:11:12,966 --> 00:11:15,436
More than 90 percent of near
death experiencers through

265
00:11:15,436 --> 00:11:16,886
thousands of years come back

266
00:11:16,906 --> 00:11:20,786
believing in an infinitely
powerful, loving force at

267
00:11:20,786 --> 00:11:21,926
the core of the universe.

268
00:11:22,236 --> 00:11:26,026
So the reality of that
presence defies the fact that

269
00:11:26,026 --> 00:11:29,126
we can't necessarily nail
it down with a proper label.

270
00:11:29,596 --> 00:11:31,936
That's why it's so
important to have your

271
00:11:31,936 --> 00:11:34,656
own practice of centering
prayer, going within,

272
00:11:34,666 --> 00:11:35,996
meditation, what have you,

273
00:11:36,246 --> 00:11:38,496
to develop your own
personal relationship

274
00:11:38,866 --> 00:11:40,146
with that loving force.

275
00:11:40,456 --> 00:11:43,486
Now for me on this journey,
it turns out that those

276
00:11:43,516 --> 00:11:46,816
angelic choirs provided
yet another portal to a

277
00:11:46,816 --> 00:11:47,776
higher and higher level.

278
00:11:48,476 --> 00:11:51,036
And what I remember
is that all of four

279
00:11:51,036 --> 00:11:53,616
dimensional space time,
the kind of lowest material

280
00:11:53,616 --> 00:11:55,366
realm, collapsed down.

281
00:11:55,616 --> 00:12:00,076
And then this entire spiritual
region, this gateway valley

282
00:12:00,076 --> 00:12:02,986
as I called it, that same
realm where you can experience

283
00:12:02,986 --> 00:12:06,561
birth, death, everything in
between, You have left time.

284
00:12:06,771 --> 00:12:09,191
You are no longer just
remembering events

285
00:12:09,191 --> 00:12:11,611
that occurred in a
lifetime, in Earth time.

286
00:12:11,841 --> 00:12:13,531
You're reliving those events.

287
00:12:13,531 --> 00:12:15,201
That's the power
of that realm.

288
00:12:15,591 --> 00:12:18,451
But given my amnesia, I
was not to have an Eben

289
00:12:18,451 --> 00:12:19,661
Alexander life review.

290
00:12:20,031 --> 00:12:23,261
I had life reviews presented
to me in two very powerful

291
00:12:23,271 --> 00:12:25,501
fashions in the next
stages of this journey.

292
00:12:25,931 --> 00:12:29,071
Because with these angelic
choirs providing yet another

293
00:12:29,071 --> 00:12:33,121
portal, All of that deep time,
as I call it or meta time.

294
00:12:33,441 --> 00:12:36,801
That's the causal relationship
that occurs in that spiritual

295
00:12:36,801 --> 00:12:40,621
realm, which is of complete
order of magnitude beyond what

296
00:12:40,621 --> 00:12:43,761
we experience here, because
you can have all the events

297
00:12:43,761 --> 00:12:47,161
of your life simultaneously
presented in that deep time.

298
00:12:47,171 --> 00:12:50,171
Very important concept,
because this explains a lot

299
00:12:50,181 --> 00:12:53,621
about How reincarnation and
all that can still honor

300
00:12:53,881 --> 00:12:56,191
that our loved ones
will absolutely be

301
00:12:56,191 --> 00:12:57,581
there when we pass over.

302
00:12:57,911 --> 00:12:59,861
To help welcome us
into that realm.

303
00:12:59,861 --> 00:13:02,141
And people are often concerned
when they hear all this

304
00:13:02,141 --> 00:13:03,481
evidence for reincarnation.

305
00:13:03,711 --> 00:13:05,411
Oh no, what if
they've reincarnated

306
00:13:05,411 --> 00:13:06,201
before I get there?

307
00:13:06,201 --> 00:13:06,571
No.

308
00:13:06,991 --> 00:13:09,151
I can tell you from
my experience that

309
00:13:09,151 --> 00:13:10,141
just doesn't happen.

310
00:13:10,411 --> 00:13:12,761
That's the importance of
understanding this different

311
00:13:13,021 --> 00:13:17,751
temporal layer in that in that
mystical, spiritual realm.

312
00:13:18,051 --> 00:13:20,911
But what that led me up into
is what I call the core.

313
00:13:21,211 --> 00:13:23,551
And I remember seeing all
of, even that spiritual

314
00:13:23,551 --> 00:13:25,321
realm collapsing down until

315
00:13:25,321 --> 00:13:28,131
what I saw was this
complex over sphere that

316
00:13:28,131 --> 00:13:30,521
was there for teaching,
and to me that over sphere

317
00:13:30,641 --> 00:13:33,131
was basically the universe
throughout all of eternity,

318
00:13:33,291 --> 00:13:35,771
but it showed me the
much bigger aspects of

319
00:13:35,771 --> 00:13:37,891
the universe that I was
trying to understand.

320
00:13:38,331 --> 00:13:40,221
And in that core
realm, all dualities.

321
00:13:40,721 --> 00:13:43,501
Come into oneness,
masculine, feminine, light,

322
00:13:43,521 --> 00:13:44,941
dark, good, evil, etc.

323
00:13:44,951 --> 00:13:47,541
All the different
dualities of this world

324
00:13:47,801 --> 00:13:51,271
come together into oneness
in that beautiful realm.

325
00:13:51,271 --> 00:13:54,311
And I also came to see
that the very source of

326
00:13:54,311 --> 00:13:55,481
our conscious awareness.

327
00:13:55,821 --> 00:13:58,621
is that deity, that
God force of pure love.

328
00:13:59,011 --> 00:14:01,521
And it's important to
understand that even though

329
00:14:01,521 --> 00:14:04,391
you may see apparent conflict
and, apparent darkness

330
00:14:04,391 --> 00:14:07,221
and evil and all that kind
of on the way into this,

331
00:14:07,481 --> 00:14:10,531
as you get closer and closer
to that spiritual core of

332
00:14:10,531 --> 00:14:13,781
what I call the core you're
getting to a level where

333
00:14:13,781 --> 00:14:15,471
it's pure oneness and love.

334
00:14:16,061 --> 00:14:19,101
In other words the apparent
darkness and evil isn't

335
00:14:19,101 --> 00:14:21,881
even part of the original
sourcing equation.

336
00:14:22,181 --> 00:14:25,691
This is all part of that
one mind and we're sharing

337
00:14:25,691 --> 00:14:28,591
the dreams of that one mind
in all of this process.

338
00:14:28,591 --> 00:14:31,081
Now, it turns out that
in that core realm, I

339
00:14:31,081 --> 00:14:32,031
was taught many things.

340
00:14:32,061 --> 00:14:35,511
The two visions I did have
that showed me both life

341
00:14:35,511 --> 00:14:37,581
reviews and reincarnation,
even though I couldn't

342
00:14:37,581 --> 00:14:40,631
have an Eben Alexander life
Review because of my amnesia.

343
00:14:40,851 --> 00:14:42,641
One I call the
flying fish version.

344
00:14:42,641 --> 00:14:43,621
That's as it sounds.

345
00:14:43,901 --> 00:14:45,521
The flying fish
down in the water.

346
00:14:45,521 --> 00:14:47,261
That's our bodies in
the material realm.

347
00:14:47,581 --> 00:14:50,531
Dumbed down, not knowing all
that our higher souls know

348
00:14:50,531 --> 00:14:51,631
about the bigger picture.

349
00:14:51,831 --> 00:14:53,671
But then when we
die, we come back up.

350
00:14:53,671 --> 00:14:56,621
Reunite with higher soul, with
souls of departed loved ones.

351
00:14:56,621 --> 00:14:57,821
Go through life reviews.

352
00:14:58,041 --> 00:15:00,611
Plan next incarnations
for further growth.

353
00:15:00,886 --> 00:15:03,096
learning and teaching,
and then dive back in.

354
00:15:03,326 --> 00:15:06,066
The second vision was on a
separate passage through the

355
00:15:06,066 --> 00:15:09,196
Core Realm, and that was what
I call the Indra's Net vision.

356
00:15:09,196 --> 00:15:12,966
That was far grander,
showing me life reviews

357
00:15:12,986 --> 00:15:15,736
and reincarnation and
a profound kind of

358
00:15:15,756 --> 00:15:20,336
Indra's Net, this higher
dimensional network of web,

359
00:15:20,666 --> 00:15:23,946
where basically everything we
did had influences that would

360
00:15:24,321 --> 00:15:27,581
It would influence out into
the universe and you could see

361
00:15:27,581 --> 00:15:30,451
how we were all interconnected
in this Indra's net vision.

362
00:15:30,671 --> 00:15:33,611
And it was that binding force
of love that was so important.

363
00:15:34,091 --> 00:15:36,631
Now it turns out, again, I
would tumble back down into

364
00:15:36,631 --> 00:15:37,771
that earthworm eye view.

365
00:15:37,991 --> 00:15:40,181
I cycled through these
realms several times.

366
00:15:40,181 --> 00:15:43,001
I learned that by remembering
the musical notes, the melody,

367
00:15:43,001 --> 00:15:45,831
that's how I could conjure
up all these light portals.

368
00:15:46,031 --> 00:15:49,591
And always many lessons
I've spent 15 years since

369
00:15:49,601 --> 00:15:52,461
my coma, unpacking those
lessons in meditation.

370
00:15:52,901 --> 00:15:55,571
I use sacred acoustics,
which is a very powerful form

371
00:15:55,571 --> 00:15:58,451
of differential frequency
brainwave entrainment.

372
00:15:58,451 --> 00:16:01,411
And I use that form of
meditation basically daily.

373
00:16:02,411 --> 00:16:05,361
And a lot of that effort
is not just to recover

374
00:16:05,361 --> 00:16:06,691
memories from my NDE,

375
00:16:06,961 --> 00:16:09,911
but to develop ongoing
relationships with the

376
00:16:09,911 --> 00:16:12,991
guides and the force and
that incredible love force

377
00:16:12,991 --> 00:16:14,271
at the core of that realm.

378
00:16:14,581 --> 00:16:16,911
Every bit of that is what
I've been doing for the

379
00:16:16,921 --> 00:16:19,851
15 years since with this
program of meditation.

380
00:16:20,101 --> 00:16:22,071
It turns out, as I
said, I would cycle

381
00:16:22,081 --> 00:16:22,931
through those levels.

382
00:16:23,151 --> 00:16:25,731
Every time I entered into
the core realm, I was told,

383
00:16:25,731 --> 00:16:26,681
you're not here to stay.

384
00:16:26,681 --> 00:16:27,491
You'll be going back.

385
00:16:28,051 --> 00:16:30,371
I'd even come to believe that
going back, just going back

386
00:16:30,371 --> 00:16:31,631
to that earth worm eye view.

387
00:16:32,001 --> 00:16:34,691
And for me, that was
no problem, because I'd

388
00:16:34,691 --> 00:16:35,811
learned that by remembering

389
00:16:35,811 --> 00:16:38,591
the musical notes and the
melody in my mind, I could

390
00:16:38,591 --> 00:16:40,021
conjure up that light portal.

391
00:16:40,291 --> 00:16:42,381
And that would always take
me up to the next level.

392
00:16:42,721 --> 00:16:44,961
But there came a point
where, as they promised me,

393
00:16:44,961 --> 00:16:47,791
you're not here to stay,
I could no longer conjure

394
00:16:47,791 --> 00:16:50,041
up the light portal up
into that gateway valley.

395
00:16:50,481 --> 00:16:53,051
To say I was sad at that point
would be an understatement.

396
00:16:53,441 --> 00:16:56,301
But I also knew that I could
trust in the universe, that

397
00:16:56,301 --> 00:16:57,661
I would be taken care of.

398
00:16:58,211 --> 00:17:01,501
And it was at that point that
I saw thousands of beings

399
00:17:01,511 --> 00:17:04,401
going off around me, off into
the distance, many with heads

400
00:17:04,401 --> 00:17:07,621
bowed like that holding arms
up, some holding candles.

401
00:17:07,961 --> 00:17:10,221
And this murmuring energy
was coming back from them.

402
00:17:10,241 --> 00:17:13,441
The surprising thing was I
now tumbled back down to this

403
00:17:13,441 --> 00:17:16,081
murky kind of earthworm's eye
view, that primitive level

404
00:17:16,331 --> 00:17:17,411
where everything started.

405
00:17:17,631 --> 00:17:19,511
And previously
the incredible...

406
00:17:19,761 --> 00:17:22,881
Joy and bliss to see I had
experienced in the spiritual

407
00:17:22,881 --> 00:17:26,121
realms, in the gateway valley
and the core realm was not

408
00:17:26,121 --> 00:17:28,701
really present in that lowest
level in the earthworm's

409
00:17:28,701 --> 00:17:30,191
eye view, but now it was.

410
00:17:30,526 --> 00:17:33,026
Because of this murmuring
energy of these people around

411
00:17:33,026 --> 00:17:36,196
me thousands of them, and when
I labeled all that, when I

412
00:17:36,196 --> 00:17:38,926
came back to this world and
was writing it all up, I said

413
00:17:38,956 --> 00:17:42,336
that those were prayers, and
that was the power of prayer

414
00:17:42,336 --> 00:17:43,886
leading me back to this world.

415
00:17:44,396 --> 00:17:47,936
And the final stage of my
near death experience were the

416
00:17:47,976 --> 00:17:50,726
six faces I saw at the
very end of it all.

417
00:17:50,986 --> 00:17:51,946
They were very important.

418
00:17:51,956 --> 00:17:55,186
Five of them were physically
present in the ICU room the

419
00:17:55,186 --> 00:17:57,086
last 24 hours I was in coma.

420
00:17:57,516 --> 00:17:59,396
Now, there were many other
family and friends who had

421
00:17:59,396 --> 00:18:01,546
been there earlier in the
week who I had no memory of.

422
00:18:02,096 --> 00:18:05,036
And what this helped me to
realize is the vast majority

423
00:18:05,036 --> 00:18:08,071
of my coma journey had to
happen between days one

424
00:18:08,071 --> 00:18:11,361
and four or one in five
of the seven day coma.

425
00:18:11,661 --> 00:18:14,351
And I explained that timing
in the book Proof of Heaven

426
00:18:14,691 --> 00:18:17,111
and then elaborate more
on that in the book Living

427
00:18:17,111 --> 00:18:18,111
in a Mindful Universe.

428
00:18:19,111 --> 00:18:21,641
But it was really the last
of those faces that I would

429
00:18:21,641 --> 00:18:22,821
say is the most important.

430
00:18:23,241 --> 00:18:25,621
That was the one that
actually compelled me to

431
00:18:25,621 --> 00:18:26,781
come back to this world.

432
00:18:26,791 --> 00:18:28,651
It was of a ten year old boy.

433
00:18:29,111 --> 00:18:31,021
Now, I didn't recognize
him at this time, but

434
00:18:31,021 --> 00:18:32,281
it was my son, Bond.

435
00:18:32,761 --> 00:18:33,491
Great name.

436
00:18:34,311 --> 00:18:36,801
It turns out that that
he was 10 years old.

437
00:18:36,811 --> 00:18:39,521
They'd given him the
sugar coated version of

438
00:18:39,521 --> 00:18:40,801
the story, Dad's sick.

439
00:18:41,161 --> 00:18:43,801
Then he saw Dad on a
ventilator, unresponsive,

440
00:18:44,451 --> 00:18:45,451
worried about that.

441
00:18:45,471 --> 00:18:47,561
And they hadn't told
him the worst news, but

442
00:18:48,011 --> 00:18:49,561
it was day 7 of coma.

443
00:18:49,801 --> 00:18:52,841
And the doctors held a family
conference where they said

444
00:18:53,121 --> 00:18:55,701
I'd gone from a 10 percent
chance of survival down to 2%.

445
00:18:56,416 --> 00:18:57,916
But with no chance
of recovery.

446
00:18:58,586 --> 00:19:01,266
And they were recommending
stopping the antibiotics and

447
00:19:01,266 --> 00:19:02,386
taking me off the ventilator.

448
00:19:02,386 --> 00:19:03,896
Just letting nature
take its course.

449
00:19:04,766 --> 00:19:06,816
But turns out Bond
overheard all that and

450
00:19:06,826 --> 00:19:09,026
now realized it was much
worse than he'd been told.

451
00:19:09,906 --> 00:19:12,976
So he came running down
the hallway and I was lying

452
00:19:12,976 --> 00:19:14,686
there on my ventilator.

453
00:19:15,606 --> 00:19:17,976
Eyes taped shut, he
pulled open my eyelids.

454
00:19:18,256 --> 00:19:20,176
One eye looking over
there, one eye over there,

455
00:19:20,176 --> 00:19:21,196
neither pupil working.

456
00:19:21,576 --> 00:19:23,826
Any of your audience in
medicine will know that's

457
00:19:23,826 --> 00:19:24,696
a horrible picture.

458
00:19:25,626 --> 00:19:28,176
And I promise you, I did
not hear him with my ears, I

459
00:19:28,176 --> 00:19:29,266
didn't see him with my eyes.

460
00:19:29,306 --> 00:19:31,686
But somehow, his pleading
with me, Daddy, you're

461
00:19:31,686 --> 00:19:33,436
going to be okay, Daddy,
you're going to be okay.

462
00:19:33,636 --> 00:19:35,546
Even though I didn't
understand the words, but it

463
00:19:35,546 --> 00:19:38,546
was that emotional engagement
of our connection, that

464
00:19:38,546 --> 00:19:42,116
pleading, that somehow I had
to be back there for him.

465
00:19:42,396 --> 00:19:43,476
Whatever that meant.

466
00:19:43,846 --> 00:19:45,466
And it's the toughest
thing I've ever done

467
00:19:45,466 --> 00:19:47,076
in my entire existence.

468
00:19:47,896 --> 00:19:48,946
Crawling out of there.

469
00:19:48,956 --> 00:19:50,856
I often use the analogy,

470
00:19:50,856 --> 00:19:52,886
it was like crawling out
of a gravel pit where every

471
00:19:52,886 --> 00:19:55,616
time you reach up, everything
collapses in around you.

472
00:19:56,496 --> 00:19:57,456
I had to do it.

473
00:19:57,456 --> 00:19:58,756
I had to get back for him.

474
00:19:58,786 --> 00:20:01,996
In some way, I was able to
come back to this world and,

475
00:20:02,296 --> 00:20:05,236
the next thing I knew, I'm
fighting the ventilator and

476
00:20:05,346 --> 00:20:06,916
they pulled the tube out.

477
00:20:07,266 --> 00:20:08,336
I said, thank you.

478
00:20:08,876 --> 00:20:12,216
Now, my brain was still
very addled by this

479
00:20:12,286 --> 00:20:13,216
serious infection.

480
00:20:13,741 --> 00:20:16,181
And even though I was
coming around, it was

481
00:20:16,181 --> 00:20:17,691
still deeply involved.

482
00:20:17,811 --> 00:20:21,491
And in fact, over the next 36
hours, after they took out the

483
00:20:21,501 --> 00:20:24,671
breathing tube, I was in and
out of a paranoid, delusional,

484
00:20:24,681 --> 00:20:25,901
psychotic nightmare

485
00:20:26,621 --> 00:20:29,211
that I described briefly in
the book, Proof of Heaven.

486
00:20:29,671 --> 00:20:30,871
But it was wild.

487
00:20:30,871 --> 00:20:33,641
And the interesting thing
about it was that those

488
00:20:33,651 --> 00:20:36,301
memories as much as they
seemed a little more real

489
00:20:36,301 --> 00:20:39,111
than a normal nightmare, I
knew they were delusional

490
00:20:39,121 --> 00:20:40,131
while it was happening.

491
00:20:40,471 --> 00:20:43,981
And also those memories
faded within about two weeks.

492
00:20:44,316 --> 00:20:46,306
Whereas the deep
coma memories,

493
00:20:46,336 --> 00:20:48,196
the spiritual journey
that I describe in the

494
00:20:48,196 --> 00:20:51,706
book, that incredible
richness, that, those

495
00:20:51,706 --> 00:20:53,286
memories are as sharp now

496
00:20:53,316 --> 00:20:55,146
as if the whole thing
happened yesterday.

497
00:20:55,786 --> 00:20:58,176
Gigantic difference, and
there have been papers,

498
00:20:58,176 --> 00:21:01,066
scientific papers, written
about the resilience and

499
00:21:01,066 --> 00:21:04,636
stability of NDE memories
that corroborates this.

500
00:21:04,676 --> 00:21:07,416
These are not,
hallucinations or dreams.

501
00:21:07,416 --> 00:21:10,766
These are profound
memories that rival real,

502
00:21:10,971 --> 00:21:14,331
lived events in terms of
their kind of tenacity

503
00:21:14,341 --> 00:21:16,331
and their staying power.

504
00:21:16,381 --> 00:21:19,301
People would often come up
to me after I gave a talk

505
00:21:19,521 --> 00:21:22,361
and share something with me
and they'd say, I never told

506
00:21:22,361 --> 00:21:23,801
anybody this before, but,

507
00:21:24,031 --> 00:21:26,311
and then they'd share an
after death communication or a

508
00:21:26,311 --> 00:21:29,201
deathbed vision, a near death
experience, what have you.

509
00:21:29,381 --> 00:21:31,041
Might have happened
50 years ago.

510
00:21:31,456 --> 00:21:33,626
But they remember it
perfectly because these

511
00:21:33,636 --> 00:21:35,156
things transform your lives.

512
00:21:35,446 --> 00:21:38,846
They're incredibly rich
dives into the nature of

513
00:21:38,846 --> 00:21:42,226
reality that's much grander
than what we normally assume

514
00:21:42,276 --> 00:21:43,516
to be our human condition.

515
00:21:43,816 --> 00:21:45,736
And they're much more
indicators of kind of

516
00:21:45,736 --> 00:21:48,016
the spiritual nature
of the universe and our

517
00:21:48,016 --> 00:21:49,636
spiritual nature as beings.

518
00:21:50,026 --> 00:21:52,916
And by spiritual, I simply
mean interconnected through

519
00:21:52,916 --> 00:21:55,366
that mental layer and also
with a shared meaning and

520
00:21:55,366 --> 00:21:58,056
purpose, because that's
ultimately what emerges

521
00:21:58,256 --> 00:22:00,776
from near death experiences
and from a broad review

522
00:22:00,776 --> 00:22:01,616
of this literature.

523
00:22:02,006 --> 00:22:03,686
At any rate, over two months,

524
00:22:03,946 --> 00:22:05,396
all my memories returned.

525
00:22:05,406 --> 00:22:06,736
That was shocking.

526
00:22:06,736 --> 00:22:08,776
In fact, in our book, Living
in a Mindful Universe,

527
00:22:09,141 --> 00:22:11,401
Karen and I talk about
how memories are not

528
00:22:11,401 --> 00:22:12,471
even stored in the brain.

529
00:22:13,031 --> 00:22:15,231
It's something that
neurosurgeons have

530
00:22:15,231 --> 00:22:17,581
suspected for a long
time that was false.

531
00:22:17,851 --> 00:22:20,311
And yet it's such a nail in
the coffin of materialist

532
00:22:20,311 --> 00:22:22,831
neuroscience that it's
not often discussed.

533
00:22:22,831 --> 00:22:24,521
And yet, if you go back to

534
00:22:24,571 --> 00:22:28,071
Wilder Penfield, the renowned
Canadian neurosurgeon who

535
00:22:28,071 --> 00:22:31,781
wrote a book in 1975, Mystery
of the Mind, he makes it

536
00:22:31,781 --> 00:22:33,381
very clear that consciousness

537
00:22:33,551 --> 00:22:35,721
is not something that
you can simply explain as

538
00:22:35,721 --> 00:22:37,071
a result of brain work.

539
00:22:37,421 --> 00:22:41,401
And in fact, through his
career, he went through,

540
00:22:41,451 --> 00:22:45,101
as a neuroscientist, as a
neurosurgeon, working on awake

541
00:22:45,101 --> 00:22:46,381
patients with electrodes.

542
00:22:46,381 --> 00:22:48,211
I did a lot of those
operations myself.

543
00:22:48,601 --> 00:22:48,721
But Penfield...

544
00:22:49,221 --> 00:22:51,791
Basically concluded that
memories were not to be stored

545
00:22:51,841 --> 00:22:53,231
anywhere in the neocortex.

546
00:22:53,671 --> 00:22:55,501
Now, of course, there
was enough materialism

547
00:22:55,501 --> 00:22:58,091
still around in 75, that
he thought you got to put

548
00:22:58,091 --> 00:22:59,981
it somewhere, so I guess
it's in the brainstem.

549
00:23:00,401 --> 00:23:02,701
But when you hear all these
reincarnation stories in the

550
00:23:02,701 --> 00:23:05,611
modern literature, you realize
those memories are not being

551
00:23:05,611 --> 00:23:07,291
stored in any brain at all.

552
00:23:07,771 --> 00:23:10,251
80 percent of the
reincarnation cases

553
00:23:10,251 --> 00:23:11,461
are not related.

554
00:23:11,911 --> 00:23:14,411
So there's no way to
even postulate, a DNA

555
00:23:14,421 --> 00:23:17,351
connection or heredity
when 80 percent of them are

556
00:23:17,351 --> 00:23:18,741
not from the same family.

557
00:23:19,181 --> 00:23:20,031
But in other words,

558
00:23:20,031 --> 00:23:23,141
we need a much bigger model
to explain consciousness and

559
00:23:23,151 --> 00:23:27,491
memory than the simplistic
and outmoded model that

560
00:23:27,531 --> 00:23:30,341
the physical brain somehow
is storing those memories.

561
00:23:30,861 --> 00:23:34,241
And so I've spent the 15 years
since my coma working with

562
00:23:34,241 --> 00:23:35,831
scientists around the world.

563
00:23:36,071 --> 00:23:38,731
And this includes if people
wanna go check out the

564
00:23:38,736 --> 00:23:39,961
groups that I work with.

565
00:23:40,471 --> 00:23:44,251
Go to scientific and
medical.net or go to

566
00:23:44,281 --> 00:23:46,441
galileo commission.org.

567
00:23:46,831 --> 00:23:49,316
Those are both scientific
groups that I've worked

568
00:23:49,316 --> 00:23:50,396
with for a while.

569
00:23:50,776 --> 00:23:53,626
And they are coming up with
models of reality that go far

570
00:23:53,626 --> 00:23:54,946
beyond the simplistic and.

571
00:23:55,901 --> 00:24:00,041
Basically, paltry fiction
of materialism that pretends

572
00:24:00,041 --> 00:24:02,261
that only the physical
world exists and that we

573
00:24:02,261 --> 00:24:03,491
don't even have free will.

574
00:24:03,901 --> 00:24:06,511
There's obviously much more
that we can learn about the

575
00:24:06,511 --> 00:24:10,181
human condition from all
this, but it really implies

576
00:24:10,211 --> 00:24:13,301
that we're all eternal
souls and we're all working

577
00:24:13,301 --> 00:24:16,121
together on this kind of
evolution of consciousness.

578
00:24:16,741 --> 00:24:19,511
That's basically where
my NDE has taken me

579
00:24:19,511 --> 00:24:21,031
and I'd like to...

580
00:24:21,666 --> 00:24:24,196
Address any questions or
comments and get deeper

581
00:24:24,196 --> 00:24:24,966
into it all with you.

582
00:24:25,686 --> 00:24:27,786
Rod Bland: So when you came
back, or I guess when you

583
00:24:27,786 --> 00:24:32,076
re regained consciousness
was it like when you were

584
00:24:32,166 --> 00:24:34,056
on the other side, so
you didn't know who you

585
00:24:34,056 --> 00:24:36,486
were as Eben Alexander,
but you had this memory

586
00:24:36,486 --> 00:24:37,296
of where you'd just been?

587
00:24:37,336 --> 00:24:39,126
Eben Alexander: All I
remembered when I came

588
00:24:39,136 --> 00:24:42,046
back to this world, when I
was waking up on that ICU

589
00:24:42,046 --> 00:24:43,946
bed was where I had been.

590
00:24:44,406 --> 00:24:48,106
That was the only experience
of my, in my memory, period.

591
00:24:48,226 --> 00:24:48,866
That was it.

592
00:24:49,406 --> 00:24:52,886
But I very quickly was
regaining language, literally

593
00:24:52,886 --> 00:24:57,186
within hours of waking up and
starting to recognize those

594
00:24:57,196 --> 00:24:58,496
loved ones at the bedside.

595
00:24:58,906 --> 00:25:01,796
Initially I was very confused
about them and very confused

596
00:25:01,816 --> 00:25:02,836
about a lot of things.

597
00:25:03,356 --> 00:25:07,666
But I quickly, within hours, a
day or two, started recovering

598
00:25:07,666 --> 00:25:10,776
plenty of memories of those
relationships to start putting

599
00:25:10,776 --> 00:25:12,106
it all back in context.

600
00:25:12,701 --> 00:25:15,741
But, this new Eben Alexander
was one who had been through

601
00:25:15,741 --> 00:25:19,611
something quite astonishing
and completely unexpected

602
00:25:19,951 --> 00:25:21,611
based on my prior worldview.

603
00:25:21,987 --> 00:25:25,217
I was also very busy trying
to tell my doctors about

604
00:25:25,217 --> 00:25:28,807
this, what had happened to
me, and they would just pat

605
00:25:28,807 --> 00:25:31,147
me on the back and say your
brain was soaking in pus.

606
00:25:31,542 --> 00:25:33,852
We don't have any idea how
you're even coming back to us.

607
00:25:34,022 --> 00:25:35,992
You can forget about it
because a dying brain

608
00:25:36,002 --> 00:25:37,282
plays all kinds of tricks.

609
00:25:37,782 --> 00:25:41,052
Okay, I believe my doctors,
I should forget about it,

610
00:25:41,052 --> 00:25:42,952
but I wanted to write it
all down because it was such

611
00:25:42,952 --> 00:25:44,532
a fascinating experience.

612
00:25:44,932 --> 00:25:47,442
And in fact, by the time I
got out of the hospital a

613
00:25:47,442 --> 00:25:50,292
few weeks later, it was two
days before Thanksgiving,

614
00:25:50,667 --> 00:25:53,677
Now, I remember my older son,
Evan IV, who was majoring in

615
00:25:53,677 --> 00:25:56,507
neuroscience in college at the
time, and he had been there

616
00:25:56,507 --> 00:25:59,797
during part of my coma, so
he knew just how ill I was.

617
00:25:59,797 --> 00:26:03,117
In fact, he thought they
lost me but he had gone back

618
00:26:03,117 --> 00:26:06,137
to school after I started
waking up took some exams,

619
00:26:06,167 --> 00:26:08,977
and then he came home,
and he drove overnight

620
00:26:08,987 --> 00:26:09,782
to surprise me.

621
00:26:09,782 --> 00:26:11,257
He'd heard that I was
staying up all night

622
00:26:11,267 --> 00:26:12,097
because I couldn't sleep

623
00:26:12,117 --> 00:26:15,202
because I was so energized
by the spiritual experience.

624
00:26:15,682 --> 00:26:16,982
And he drove overnight.

625
00:26:16,982 --> 00:26:18,782
He came home the day
before Thanksgiving,

626
00:26:18,782 --> 00:26:19,792
gave me a big hug.

627
00:26:20,232 --> 00:26:22,812
And he told me much later
that it was like when he gave

628
00:26:22,812 --> 00:26:25,642
me that hug, like there was
a light shining within me

629
00:26:25,962 --> 00:26:28,552
that I was far more present
than I'd ever been before.

630
00:26:28,842 --> 00:26:31,482
And I remember telling
him, it was all way

631
00:26:31,482 --> 00:26:33,292
too real to be real.

632
00:26:33,732 --> 00:26:36,192
That's the way I,
that ultra reality.

633
00:26:36,192 --> 00:26:38,232
That's how I put it into
words because I always

634
00:26:38,232 --> 00:26:39,022
believe in my doctors.

635
00:26:39,702 --> 00:26:40,912
Trick of the dying brain,

636
00:26:41,092 --> 00:26:43,792
but I had not yet begun to
review my medical records.

637
00:26:43,792 --> 00:26:46,862
That was weeks and months
into the future, and as I did

638
00:26:46,872 --> 00:26:48,692
that, I started realizing no

639
00:26:48,692 --> 00:26:52,022
this brain was not
there creating some wild

640
00:26:52,022 --> 00:26:55,332
hallucination or dream
because this brain was

641
00:26:55,342 --> 00:26:56,652
far too damaged.

642
00:26:56,682 --> 00:26:59,282
It could not have done
that and that of course,

643
00:26:59,282 --> 00:27:02,292
as I said, is why the
scientific community takes

644
00:27:02,292 --> 00:27:03,612
my story so seriously,

645
00:27:03,612 --> 00:27:07,292
but the the reality that
was coming to me is all the

646
00:27:07,292 --> 00:27:08,822
memories started coming back.

647
00:27:09,142 --> 00:27:13,482
And in fact, the memories
of my distant past life or

648
00:27:13,532 --> 00:27:17,722
distant early life in this
body were more complete than

649
00:27:17,722 --> 00:27:19,062
they had been before the coma.

650
00:27:19,122 --> 00:27:21,712
I figured that out with
conversations with family

651
00:27:21,712 --> 00:27:24,832
and friends about certain
things that occurred

652
00:27:24,842 --> 00:27:26,282
way back in early life.

653
00:27:26,677 --> 00:27:29,517
And realized that those
details were clearer in

654
00:27:29,517 --> 00:27:32,477
my memory after the coma
than they had been before.

655
00:27:32,477 --> 00:27:35,437
So it was a beautiful
example of how our brain

656
00:27:35,437 --> 00:27:36,677
serves as an interface.

657
00:27:36,677 --> 00:27:39,657
It's a filter to that
primordial consciousness.

658
00:27:39,657 --> 00:27:43,657
And it accesses memories
and it accesses this kind of

659
00:27:43,667 --> 00:27:45,417
lifeline of our existence.

660
00:27:45,887 --> 00:27:49,347
But ultimately the brain
is not the creator of

661
00:27:49,347 --> 00:27:50,367
that conscious awareness.

662
00:27:51,362 --> 00:27:53,382
The universe is
conscious, essentially.

663
00:27:53,382 --> 00:27:56,312
That's what this is teaching
us in a very deep fashion.

664
00:27:56,692 --> 00:28:00,322
The very same consciousness
that came up with the Big Bang

665
00:28:00,322 --> 00:28:03,752
and so many other, aspects
of our emerging reality.

666
00:28:04,032 --> 00:28:07,122
That is the consciousness we
share, that God force is one.

667
00:28:07,122 --> 00:28:10,867
At the deepest levels of our
journeys, we find that is

668
00:28:10,867 --> 00:28:13,447
the source of our conscious
awareness and that we

669
00:28:13,447 --> 00:28:14,767
all have the same source.

670
00:28:15,047 --> 00:28:16,017
So it's all shared.

671
00:28:16,027 --> 00:28:19,207
That's why this notion of
the life of you as being

672
00:28:19,207 --> 00:28:21,227
the golden rule written
into the fabric of the

673
00:28:21,227 --> 00:28:22,427
universe is so important.

674
00:28:22,922 --> 00:28:25,762
If you hurt others, you're
hurting yourself, and

675
00:28:25,802 --> 00:28:28,562
the more the deep lesson
of NDE's of this oneness

676
00:28:28,562 --> 00:28:31,772
and this binding force of
love can come to fruition,

677
00:28:32,122 --> 00:28:35,502
the more harmonious and
prosperous this world

678
00:28:35,502 --> 00:28:38,322
will be for all of our
fellow sentient beings.

679
00:28:39,197 --> 00:28:41,477
Rod Bland: Now, I think
I remember the lady on

680
00:28:41,477 --> 00:28:43,607
the butterfly on the
butterfly wing, there's a

681
00:28:43,607 --> 00:28:44,717
special certificates there.

682
00:28:44,717 --> 00:28:45,617
Could you tell us
more about that?

683
00:28:46,617 --> 00:28:47,627
Eben Alexander: I'll
tell you a little bit.

684
00:28:48,197 --> 00:28:50,627
I don't want to have to
give out a spoiler alert for

685
00:28:50,657 --> 00:28:51,597
people who haven't read the

686
00:28:51,607 --> 00:28:52,487
Rod Bland: that's
a good point.

687
00:28:52,507 --> 00:28:52,817
Eben Alexander: it's a...

688
00:28:53,457 --> 00:28:54,747
It's a fantastic,

689
00:28:54,777 --> 00:28:57,037
that's one of the reasons
people absolutely love that

690
00:28:57,037 --> 00:29:00,237
book, plus it, the book Proof
of Heaven, and it's also a

691
00:29:00,237 --> 00:29:05,537
reason that so many people
contacted me because it, it

692
00:29:05,537 --> 00:29:08,187
reawakened in them memories
of their own journeys.

693
00:29:08,522 --> 00:29:10,902
Of things that had happened to
them that they had suppressed,

694
00:29:11,242 --> 00:29:12,852
between lives, what have you.

695
00:29:13,182 --> 00:29:14,702
But yes, that is
an important point.

696
00:29:14,702 --> 00:29:16,922
It has a lot to do with
kind of the overall

697
00:29:17,262 --> 00:29:18,782
challenge of my life.

698
00:29:19,022 --> 00:29:20,952
And that has to do with the
fact that I was adopted.

699
00:29:21,032 --> 00:29:23,652
I tell a lot of that story
in the book, Proof of Heaven.

700
00:29:24,082 --> 00:29:27,452
I was put up for adoption
by my 16 year old unwed

701
00:29:27,472 --> 00:29:29,902
mother at age 11 days.

702
00:29:30,402 --> 00:29:33,092
I was basically taken by
social services because

703
00:29:33,342 --> 00:29:34,572
of failure to thrive.

704
00:29:34,572 --> 00:29:37,372
I went on a hunger
strike, which babies that

705
00:29:37,372 --> 00:29:39,652
are not wanted by their
mothers often will do.

706
00:29:40,132 --> 00:29:43,992
And so social services had
taken me on and my birth

707
00:29:44,002 --> 00:29:47,232
mother could no longer claim
me after that Christmas

708
00:29:47,242 --> 00:29:48,692
break when they had taken me.

709
00:29:49,582 --> 00:29:52,122
But she wasn't willing to
sign the papers to give me up.

710
00:29:52,432 --> 00:29:55,542
So I basically got stuck in
purgatory in this baby dorm

711
00:29:55,832 --> 00:29:58,922
in Greensboro, North Carolina
for four months until my

712
00:29:58,922 --> 00:30:01,732
birth mother was willing to
sign the papers to let me go.

713
00:30:02,052 --> 00:30:03,532
And then I couldn't
have been luckier.

714
00:30:03,532 --> 00:30:05,512
I couldn't have been adopted
into a better family.

715
00:30:06,027 --> 00:30:08,707
a loving family that honored
all my hopes and dreams.

716
00:30:08,707 --> 00:30:10,307
I had three sisters
in that family.

717
00:30:10,547 --> 00:30:11,797
The older one was adopted.

718
00:30:11,797 --> 00:30:14,057
The younger two were
the biological children

719
00:30:14,327 --> 00:30:15,607
of my adopted parents.

720
00:30:16,017 --> 00:30:18,827
But the important thing
is I went through most

721
00:30:18,827 --> 00:30:21,207
of my life not knowing
about anything of the

722
00:30:21,207 --> 00:30:22,657
details of that connection.

723
00:30:23,077 --> 00:30:26,897
And there was a deep kind
of subconscious worry.

724
00:30:27,207 --> 00:30:30,037
And I was not conscious of
this, but it was operative

725
00:30:30,277 --> 00:30:31,487
at a subconscious level.

726
00:30:31,847 --> 00:30:34,017
that maybe I wasn't
even worthy of love.

727
00:30:34,017 --> 00:30:36,377
And I think that affected
a lot of my relationships

728
00:30:36,377 --> 00:30:39,267
with people and whether or
not I could trust the world.

729
00:30:39,527 --> 00:30:39,807
And in

730
00:30:39,907 --> 00:30:43,177
so many ways, this whole
journey of working towards

731
00:30:43,377 --> 00:30:46,997
my NDE and then beyond was
part of the sole journey of

732
00:30:46,997 --> 00:30:49,787
answering that question of
whether or not I was worthy

733
00:30:49,787 --> 00:30:50,997
of love in this universe.

734
00:30:51,071 --> 00:30:53,261
And what I will tell you
in terms of answering

735
00:30:53,261 --> 00:30:57,541
your question is that I
finally met my birth family

736
00:30:57,911 --> 00:30:59,601
a year before my coma.

737
00:31:00,361 --> 00:31:03,481
That also that story's all
told in proof of Heaven.

738
00:31:03,961 --> 00:31:05,911
And that was a
beautiful reunion.

739
00:31:05,941 --> 00:31:08,701
I felt a huge part of my
past had now been locked

740
00:31:08,701 --> 00:31:11,101
into place and I now
understood so much more.

741
00:31:11,531 --> 00:31:13,931
It started me on a pathway
of understanding the answer

742
00:31:13,931 --> 00:31:16,391
to that question, whether
or not I was loved, but I

743
00:31:16,391 --> 00:31:19,631
needed the n D E to fully
answer that question, and

744
00:31:19,631 --> 00:31:20,951
that's why I dove in deep

745
00:31:20,951 --> 00:31:24,611
and in fact that beautiful
guardian angel had to be

746
00:31:24,611 --> 00:31:26,051
somewhat important in my life.

747
00:31:26,561 --> 00:31:29,031
And it turns out that she was,

748
00:31:29,031 --> 00:31:31,821
and that had to do with
that birth family and a

749
00:31:31,821 --> 00:31:33,061
sister that I never knew.

750
00:31:33,101 --> 00:31:35,051
I won't go into any
more detail than that.

751
00:31:35,541 --> 00:31:38,621
But suffice it to say,
it was a mind bender that

752
00:31:38,621 --> 00:31:41,821
shocked me to my knees when
I did figure it all out.

753
00:31:42,041 --> 00:31:44,881
And it also proved to me
the reality of my journey

754
00:31:45,161 --> 00:31:47,011
in a very strong fashion.

755
00:31:47,291 --> 00:31:50,331
I already knew all of this
seemed way too real to

756
00:31:50,341 --> 00:31:53,271
be real, but then to fit
it all into my life in a

757
00:31:53,271 --> 00:31:56,911
meaningful and powerful
way was extraordinary.

758
00:31:56,931 --> 00:31:58,161
And that was the gift.

759
00:31:59,398 --> 00:32:00,958
Rod Bland: People often
use that description is

760
00:32:00,988 --> 00:32:02,448
it's more real than real.

761
00:32:02,768 --> 00:32:04,968
And I've had a single
out of body experience.

762
00:32:04,968 --> 00:32:07,718
And when I try to explain
to people and they go, okay

763
00:32:07,718 --> 00:32:09,888
well, you sure you weren't
dreaming and said well,

764
00:32:09,888 --> 00:32:13,078
I, you know, when you're
dreaming, but you really know

765
00:32:13,188 --> 00:32:15,998
when you're dreaming after
you've had a different kind

766
00:32:15,998 --> 00:32:19,573
of experience like an NDE
or an OBE because there's

767
00:32:19,573 --> 00:32:24,133
this essence of reality to
it that just doesn't exist

768
00:32:24,223 --> 00:32:28,233
in our present reality and
it's really hard to explain.

769
00:32:28,233 --> 00:32:30,153
It's just one of those
things you have to experience

770
00:32:30,193 --> 00:32:33,213
and then you get it, but
otherwise it's really just a

771
00:32:33,213 --> 00:32:35,243
concept that's quite foreign.

772
00:32:35,743 --> 00:32:37,343
Eben Alexander: I think you're
exactly right, and that's

773
00:32:37,343 --> 00:32:40,523
why a lot of people were
attracted to Proof of Heaven.

774
00:32:40,703 --> 00:32:43,063
There were thousands of people
who wrote to me after that

775
00:32:43,063 --> 00:32:48,123
book came out sharing, how
that had awakened in them a

776
00:32:48,123 --> 00:32:51,863
sense of a similar journey
and a bigger existence.

777
00:32:52,253 --> 00:32:54,513
As you say it's hard to
put your finger on it.

778
00:32:54,513 --> 00:32:57,763
It's certainly way beyond
the linguistic description

779
00:32:57,763 --> 00:32:58,523
of these journeys.

780
00:32:59,018 --> 00:33:01,548
But it has more to do with
kind of their overwhelming

781
00:33:01,548 --> 00:33:04,778
power of of reliving these
events and getting this

782
00:33:04,808 --> 00:33:07,958
much richer, deeper sense of
connection with the universe.

783
00:33:07,958 --> 00:33:13,018
It's a very beautiful lesson
in actually existing to go

784
00:33:13,018 --> 00:33:14,828
through these kinds of things.

785
00:33:14,828 --> 00:33:17,428
And then come back to this
world and have that as a

786
00:33:17,428 --> 00:33:21,108
touch point as a, a mile
post that you contacted.

787
00:33:21,543 --> 00:33:24,273
Bathing in that ocean of
consciousness is something

788
00:33:24,423 --> 00:33:28,203
that always can serve me well
in terms of these journeys.

789
00:33:28,203 --> 00:33:31,243
And I know when I present
this to other NDEers, for

790
00:33:31,243 --> 00:33:34,563
example that's especially
when that heart resonance

791
00:33:34,563 --> 00:33:37,013
of understanding comes
out and you realize

792
00:33:37,593 --> 00:33:42,173
that the communication
goes far beyond just our

793
00:33:42,183 --> 00:33:43,413
language and our words.

794
00:33:43,443 --> 00:33:46,073
There's something much
deeper about our connections,

795
00:33:46,073 --> 00:33:49,043
especially in sharing these
kind of profound spiritual

796
00:33:49,043 --> 00:33:52,888
journeys that leads us
into some common ground.

797
00:33:53,058 --> 00:33:55,418
Rod Bland: Yeah, there's our
senses are quite limited,

798
00:33:55,448 --> 00:33:57,968
like our five senses,
they're not limited but...

799
00:33:58,428 --> 00:34:01,378
There's so much more to your
experience of consciousness

800
00:34:01,438 --> 00:34:02,815
than that was what I remember.

801
00:34:02,815 --> 00:34:05,655
It was like there was this
sort of ongoing essence

802
00:34:05,655 --> 00:34:08,205
of joyful cheerfulness.

803
00:34:08,205 --> 00:34:10,685
So that's hard to explain,
but it was like everything was

804
00:34:10,685 --> 00:34:13,935
really vibrant and everyone
who was there was really

805
00:34:13,955 --> 00:34:15,575
happy and great to see you.

806
00:34:15,575 --> 00:34:15,752
And

807
00:34:15,752 --> 00:34:17,132
Eben Alexander: This is
something that my partner

808
00:34:17,132 --> 00:34:19,342
Karen Newell has pointed
out to me very well.

809
00:34:19,662 --> 00:34:23,012
She's become a student of
Christopher Kerr, K E R R.

810
00:34:23,412 --> 00:34:26,212
He's a hospice doctor
in Buffalo, New York.

811
00:34:26,552 --> 00:34:29,082
So all he writes about is
hospice, terminal care,

812
00:34:29,092 --> 00:34:30,052
patients who are dying.

813
00:34:30,592 --> 00:34:33,632
But it turns out that
you find the exact same

814
00:34:33,642 --> 00:34:35,282
themes are coming to them.

815
00:34:35,797 --> 00:34:39,117
You have reuniting with
souls of departed loved ones.

816
00:34:39,447 --> 00:34:42,137
You have them resolving
some of the big

817
00:34:42,157 --> 00:34:43,267
issues in their life.

818
00:34:43,277 --> 00:34:46,227
If there were things that they
had done in their life where

819
00:34:46,227 --> 00:34:49,267
they had a lot of guilt or
shame and they had hurt others

820
00:34:49,487 --> 00:34:52,357
they end up able to make
amends and to do that

821
00:34:52,607 --> 00:34:55,377
in real time with the
spiritual ingredients

822
00:34:55,427 --> 00:34:56,487
of these encounters.

823
00:34:56,737 --> 00:35:00,267
So the dying experience
from the hospice world is

824
00:35:00,267 --> 00:35:04,017
identical to what happens in
near death experiences and

825
00:35:04,297 --> 00:35:05,397
shared death experiences.

826
00:35:05,407 --> 00:35:08,207
Shared death are just like
near death but they happen

827
00:35:08,207 --> 00:35:09,887
to perfectly healthy people.

828
00:35:10,267 --> 00:35:12,927
Often people who might
be loved ones, say a

829
00:35:12,927 --> 00:35:15,387
thousand miles away from
a mother who is dying,

830
00:35:15,887 --> 00:35:18,607
but when the mother dies
and leaves, and her soul

831
00:35:18,607 --> 00:35:21,892
leaves her body, it goes
through and grabs the

832
00:35:21,892 --> 00:35:23,172
soul of the loved one,

833
00:35:23,172 --> 00:35:26,242
who might be a thousand miles
away, takes that along even

834
00:35:26,242 --> 00:35:28,542
to the point of witnessing
a full blown life review

835
00:35:28,552 --> 00:35:31,232
with the mother's soul,
but then the bystander soul

836
00:35:31,232 --> 00:35:32,392
comes back to this world.

837
00:35:32,992 --> 00:35:35,532
And those shared death
experiences have many

838
00:35:35,532 --> 00:35:37,992
of the same ingredients
of near death.

839
00:35:38,332 --> 00:35:39,472
And yet, as I said,

840
00:35:39,472 --> 00:35:42,022
they usually happen in people
who are perfectly healthy.

841
00:35:42,302 --> 00:35:45,892
So they completely
defy those materialist

842
00:35:45,952 --> 00:35:49,542
pseudo explanations of,
decreased oxygen tension or

843
00:35:49,542 --> 00:35:52,862
increased carbon dioxide if
somebody's body is dying.

844
00:35:53,417 --> 00:35:55,547
But no, you don't need
those ingredients for these

845
00:35:55,547 --> 00:35:56,947
incredible spiritual journeys.

846
00:35:57,277 --> 00:35:59,527
And anybody who wants to
learn more about shared

847
00:35:59,527 --> 00:36:01,197
death experiences should read

848
00:36:01,197 --> 00:36:03,527
Raymond Moody's book,
Glimpses of Eternity.

849
00:36:03,537 --> 00:36:06,027
I think it came out in
2011, but that's all about

850
00:36:06,037 --> 00:36:07,757
shared death, completely.

851
00:36:08,087 --> 00:36:11,127
And then also follow the
work of William Peters.

852
00:36:11,407 --> 00:36:13,577
If you Google Shared
Crossing Project,

853
00:36:13,827 --> 00:36:15,117
he's in Santa Barbara.

854
00:36:15,512 --> 00:36:16,122
California,

855
00:36:16,122 --> 00:36:19,792
and which enables people to
learn techniques that might

856
00:36:19,792 --> 00:36:23,832
enhance their ability to share
the dying experience with a

857
00:36:23,832 --> 00:36:25,112
loved one who is terminal.

858
00:36:25,622 --> 00:36:28,752
And he's, William Peters
was just a guest with us

859
00:36:28,752 --> 00:36:32,122
and he's claiming some very
good success with this.

860
00:36:32,122 --> 00:36:34,032
He's recently written a book.

861
00:36:34,222 --> 00:36:36,472
It's called At Heaven's Door.

862
00:36:36,732 --> 00:36:37,742
I highly recommend it.

863
00:36:38,352 --> 00:36:40,642
And that will help people
get up to speed with shared

864
00:36:40,652 --> 00:36:43,872
death experiences, which
are an extraordinary kind

865
00:36:43,872 --> 00:36:47,332
of extension of near death
into explaining our spiritual

866
00:36:47,332 --> 00:36:50,122
nature the spiritual nature
of the universe at large.

867
00:36:50,172 --> 00:36:53,252
Highly recommend people get
into learning more about

868
00:36:53,512 --> 00:36:54,662
shared death experiences.

869
00:36:55,362 --> 00:36:56,182
Rod Bland: That's
very interesting.

870
00:36:56,182 --> 00:36:58,642
That sounds a bit like the,
I think it's the Gateway

871
00:36:58,642 --> 00:37:01,582
Experience Program at the
Monroe Institute, where they

872
00:37:01,632 --> 00:37:05,232
are learning how to escort,
other people who have, who

873
00:37:05,232 --> 00:37:08,932
are passing or have passed
to the sort of next part

874
00:37:09,042 --> 00:37:09,932
Eben Alexander: Exactly.

875
00:37:09,932 --> 00:37:13,372
In fact, that was my
original introduction to

876
00:37:13,562 --> 00:37:15,792
binaural beat brainwave
entrainment was working

877
00:37:15,812 --> 00:37:17,192
at the Monroe Institute.

878
00:37:17,572 --> 00:37:18,992
So I'm very
familiar with that.

879
00:37:19,032 --> 00:37:21,942
Took that lifelines
course where we were

880
00:37:21,942 --> 00:37:22,632
actually there to

881
00:37:22,642 --> 00:37:25,762
help souls who were stuck,
who had died and yet

882
00:37:25,812 --> 00:37:28,442
weren't certain they died
and what have you, but

883
00:37:28,442 --> 00:37:30,902
the many different ways
that souls can get stuck.

884
00:37:30,902 --> 00:37:32,532
And we were there
helping them.

885
00:37:32,532 --> 00:37:34,332
That's in fact the environment

886
00:37:34,332 --> 00:37:35,842
where I met Karen Newell.

887
00:37:36,347 --> 00:37:39,627
Because she also was there
training learning how to teach

888
00:37:39,627 --> 00:37:41,747
people to use these sounds

889
00:37:42,057 --> 00:37:44,527
to get into deep
hypnotic or deep states

890
00:37:44,527 --> 00:37:45,637
of conscious awareness.

891
00:37:45,957 --> 00:37:48,947
And in fact, I was the one
who, once I listened to

892
00:37:48,947 --> 00:37:51,647
what she and her business
partner, Kevin Cossey,

893
00:37:51,647 --> 00:37:52,887
he was a sound engineer.

894
00:37:53,297 --> 00:37:55,707
They were putting together
their own binaural beats.

895
00:37:55,837 --> 00:37:57,507
They'd not shared
them with anyone else.

896
00:37:57,737 --> 00:38:01,717
Once I heard those back
in early 2012, I said, you

897
00:38:01,717 --> 00:38:04,332
guys really need to get
these out to the world.

898
00:38:04,742 --> 00:38:07,962
Now I'm one of their biggest
customers and biggest fans.

899
00:38:07,962 --> 00:38:10,562
I listen to Sacred Acoustics
an hour to a day, and

900
00:38:10,562 --> 00:38:12,392
I've been doing that for
more than 11 years now.

901
00:38:12,752 --> 00:38:14,552
But people can go
to sacredacoustics.

902
00:38:14,552 --> 00:38:15,792
com to learn a lot more.

903
00:38:16,112 --> 00:38:19,097
I highly recommend it
as a meditative tool and

904
00:38:19,097 --> 00:38:22,317
just cuts the chase from a
neuroscientific perspective.

905
00:38:22,597 --> 00:38:25,287
The reason I think sacred
acoustics is so powerful

906
00:38:25,617 --> 00:38:28,367
is because it uses binaural
beat brainwave entrainment

907
00:38:28,377 --> 00:38:32,257
to engage a circuit way down
the lower brainstem in this

908
00:38:32,267 --> 00:38:35,827
ancient circuit by oscillating
left and right back and

909
00:38:35,827 --> 00:38:39,097
forth quickly with these
binaural beat sound waves.

910
00:38:39,352 --> 00:38:42,122
I believe that is what allows
our conscious awareness to be

911
00:38:42,132 --> 00:38:45,072
set free from the illusion of
here, now, and sense of self.

912
00:38:45,422 --> 00:38:46,632
So I highly recommend it.

913
00:38:46,652 --> 00:38:48,832
People can learn a lot
more at sacredacoustics.

914
00:38:48,842 --> 00:38:49,242
com.

915
00:38:49,632 --> 00:38:51,972
To learn about these
meditative tools and

916
00:38:51,972 --> 00:38:53,692
the different ways
that you can use them.

917
00:38:53,702 --> 00:38:56,332
Her site is very good
for instructing people

918
00:38:56,332 --> 00:38:58,602
about the details of
these various programs

919
00:38:58,852 --> 00:38:59,792
and how they've been used.

920
00:38:59,982 --> 00:39:02,022
And it's important
to note that Dr.

921
00:39:02,022 --> 00:39:06,922
Anna Usim, Y U S I M, wrote a
peer reviewed scientific study

922
00:39:06,952 --> 00:39:10,002
of sacred acoustics binaural
beat brainwave entrainment

923
00:39:10,422 --> 00:39:11,982
that was published in the

924
00:39:11,982 --> 00:39:14,782
Journal of Nervous and
Mental Diseases in, I think

925
00:39:14,782 --> 00:39:19,502
it was in February of 2020
and basically they found

926
00:39:19,792 --> 00:39:22,402
that in their busy Manhattan
psychiatric practice,

927
00:39:22,592 --> 00:39:24,982
that simply listening to
binaural beats, sacred

928
00:39:24,982 --> 00:39:30,652
acoustics gave a 26 percent
reduction in anxiety

929
00:39:30,652 --> 00:39:32,372
symptoms over two weeks.

930
00:39:32,537 --> 00:39:36,617
And that's compared to only a
7 percent reduction in anxiety

931
00:39:36,617 --> 00:39:40,407
symptoms in people who had
standard of psychotalk therapy

932
00:39:40,677 --> 00:39:42,047
but did not have the tones.

933
00:39:42,307 --> 00:39:44,287
So by listening to
Sacred Acoustics tones,

934
00:39:44,287 --> 00:39:47,457
you had a dramatic
improvement in alleviation

935
00:39:47,457 --> 00:39:48,607
of anxiety symptoms.

936
00:39:48,847 --> 00:39:50,777
This is very early
in the pandemic.

937
00:39:51,127 --> 00:39:53,857
So Karen, with all her
generosity, It was important

938
00:39:53,867 --> 00:39:55,867
to get these tones out
to the world to relieve

939
00:39:55,867 --> 00:39:59,727
anxiety, especially as the
economic collapse added

940
00:39:59,727 --> 00:40:01,987
on top of the pandemic.

941
00:40:02,257 --> 00:40:05,197
And so she made the whole
mind bundle, which was

942
00:40:05,227 --> 00:40:07,577
the source material for
that scientific paper.

943
00:40:07,877 --> 00:40:09,837
showing such a
reduction in anxiety.

944
00:40:10,047 --> 00:40:12,277
She made that whole mind
bundle available for a

945
00:40:12,277 --> 00:40:14,837
discounted price of 19.

946
00:40:15,567 --> 00:40:18,837
But she also included a
free option because she

947
00:40:18,837 --> 00:40:20,247
knew there'd be a lot
of people because of the

948
00:40:20,287 --> 00:40:22,807
pandemic who didn't have
the financial wherewithal,

949
00:40:23,107 --> 00:40:25,627
but would need something
like this powerful tool.

950
00:40:25,957 --> 00:40:28,717
And I believe that free
option is still available.

951
00:40:29,522 --> 00:40:32,792
Due to Karen and Sacred
Acoustics generosity, people

952
00:40:32,792 --> 00:40:37,302
can download and use that
very same set of acoustic

953
00:40:37,302 --> 00:40:40,902
files that were so effective
in alleviating anxiety

954
00:40:40,902 --> 00:40:42,192
in that scientific study.

955
00:40:42,467 --> 00:40:43,387
Rod Bland: So there
was something that you

956
00:40:43,387 --> 00:40:45,207
mentioned was EndersNet.

957
00:40:45,287 --> 00:40:46,757
It sounded like
you said EndersNet.

958
00:40:46,787 --> 00:40:47,617
Did I get that right?

959
00:40:48,617 --> 00:40:49,277
Eben Alexander: Indra's

960
00:40:49,481 --> 00:40:50,441
Rod Bland: Oh, EndresNet.

961
00:40:50,511 --> 00:40:51,031
Okay.

962
00:40:51,527 --> 00:40:53,387
Eben Alexander: It's
from some ancient Eastern

963
00:40:53,477 --> 00:40:56,857
teachings the notion of
this interconnected web.

964
00:40:57,287 --> 00:40:59,867
And that was just the vision
that came to me after coming

965
00:40:59,867 --> 00:41:02,747
out of coma and trying to
describe and go through

966
00:41:02,747 --> 00:41:06,077
the various elements of my
journey that extraordinary

967
00:41:06,087 --> 00:41:07,137
vision of the net

968
00:41:07,147 --> 00:41:09,827
that I had in the core realm
showed my interconnection

969
00:41:09,837 --> 00:41:13,772
with all that was happening
and showed that my actions

970
00:41:13,772 --> 00:41:16,992
and thoughts and learning and
teaching were also associated

971
00:41:17,182 --> 00:41:19,602
with the transformation
of consciousness itself.

972
00:41:19,902 --> 00:41:22,592
Which I believe is the reason
the whole universe exists,

973
00:41:22,952 --> 00:41:24,972
is for this one mind to grow.

974
00:41:25,012 --> 00:41:27,292
It's we're sharing the dream
of the one mind in this

975
00:41:27,302 --> 00:41:30,972
process of learning and
teaching, and unpacking what

976
00:41:30,982 --> 00:41:35,286
is possible for sentient
beings to accomplish in

977
00:41:35,726 --> 00:41:38,396
recognizing their connection
with the universe at large.

978
00:41:38,406 --> 00:41:42,036
And that's really what I see
a lot of this as being this

979
00:41:42,206 --> 00:41:45,746
kind of expanded sense of
mission, of understanding that

980
00:41:45,746 --> 00:41:48,286
we're all in this together,
this process of discovery.

981
00:41:48,796 --> 00:41:51,786
And it's really all
about a deeper version

982
00:41:51,787 --> 00:41:51,876
of know thyself.

983
00:41:52,376 --> 00:41:56,546
That inscription over the
temple of Apollo at Delphi

984
00:41:56,546 --> 00:41:58,506
in Greece, Know thyself.

985
00:41:58,516 --> 00:42:00,916
And I think that's
ultimately what we're all

986
00:42:00,916 --> 00:42:01,976
being challenged with.

987
00:42:01,976 --> 00:42:05,396
And the interesting thing is
you find that your mind is

988
00:42:05,416 --> 00:42:08,836
not just related to this three
and a half pound gelatinous

989
00:42:08,836 --> 00:42:11,586
mass sitting in a warm,
dark bath between your ears,

990
00:42:11,587 --> 00:42:14,686
but your mind is sharing
the mind of the universe.

991
00:42:15,046 --> 00:42:17,876
And this becomes obvious,
especially in our book,

992
00:42:17,876 --> 00:42:20,826
Living in a Mindful Universe,
we point out All the

993
00:42:20,826 --> 00:42:23,686
different consilience lines
of evidence that lead to this

994
00:42:23,686 --> 00:42:25,046
notion of primacy of mind.

995
00:42:25,471 --> 00:42:28,431
From the hard problem of
consciousness in neuroscience,

996
00:42:28,761 --> 00:42:30,891
to the binding problem,
the apparent unity of

997
00:42:30,891 --> 00:42:33,491
consciousness, which is
very difficult to explain

998
00:42:33,491 --> 00:42:36,081
in the individual if you're
postulating that it's

999
00:42:36,081 --> 00:42:39,101
all different neuronal
populations contributing

1000
00:42:39,551 --> 00:42:41,741
in network fashion to
this bigger version.

1001
00:42:41,741 --> 00:42:43,561
Why is consciousness
so unified?

1002
00:42:43,891 --> 00:42:45,671
It's because it's
unified from the get go.

1003
00:42:45,981 --> 00:42:47,201
We're sharing that one mind.

1004
00:42:47,211 --> 00:42:49,261
The brain is a filter
that allows it in.

1005
00:42:49,601 --> 00:42:52,811
And then you have in this
argument of consilience all

1006
00:42:52,811 --> 00:42:55,641
the evidence for non local
consciousness, like telepathy.

1007
00:42:56,021 --> 00:42:58,591
Read Guy Lyon Playfair's
book on twin telepathy.

1008
00:42:58,591 --> 00:43:01,331
You realize 35 percent
of identical twins

1009
00:43:01,331 --> 00:43:04,046
have very powerful
telepathic experiences.

1010
00:43:04,076 --> 00:43:07,746
Of course, they're easy to
demonstrate in twins, but

1011
00:43:07,746 --> 00:43:10,596
they also occur in many
other connections we have

1012
00:43:10,596 --> 00:43:13,796
with people where telepathy
is real, remote viewing

1013
00:43:13,796 --> 00:43:17,196
is real, distance healing,
and then you run into all

1014
00:43:17,196 --> 00:43:19,506
this kind of category of
non local consciousness

1015
00:43:19,506 --> 00:43:20,606
in the form of near death.

1016
00:43:20,901 --> 00:43:22,231
Shared death experiences,

1017
00:43:22,541 --> 00:43:25,431
deathbed dreams and visions
like in the hospice work,

1018
00:43:25,751 --> 00:43:28,301
and then of course after
death communications would

1019
00:43:28,301 --> 00:43:30,911
probably happen in more
than 50 percent of our

1020
00:43:30,911 --> 00:43:32,761
modern western population.

1021
00:43:33,201 --> 00:43:35,891
In fact, it's the population
at large that's going to

1022
00:43:35,891 --> 00:43:37,381
be driving this revolution.

1023
00:43:37,661 --> 00:43:40,581
The scientific community
is catching up, slowly

1024
00:43:40,581 --> 00:43:43,681
but surely, but ultimately
it's people having these

1025
00:43:43,701 --> 00:43:47,551
experiences once they realize
they don't violate science

1026
00:43:47,551 --> 00:43:48,861
and scientific principles.

1027
00:43:49,136 --> 00:43:51,876
But, in fact, are supported
by the modern science

1028
00:43:51,876 --> 00:43:54,636
of quantum informed
scientific investigation

1029
00:43:54,636 --> 00:43:55,466
of consciousness.

1030
00:43:55,896 --> 00:43:58,416
And really that's where
this whole thing explodes.

1031
00:43:58,416 --> 00:44:02,066
And, for example, if anyone
still thinks that this

1032
00:44:02,076 --> 00:44:04,616
is, talk of the afterlife
and reincarnation is not

1033
00:44:04,616 --> 00:44:07,286
scientific, I would send
you to BigelowInstitute.

1034
00:44:08,286 --> 00:44:08,726
org.

1035
00:44:09,406 --> 00:44:12,506
Because that's where you'll
find 28 essays that were

1036
00:44:12,506 --> 00:44:14,166
written in the year 2021.

1037
00:44:14,716 --> 00:44:17,616
The challenge was from
Robert Bigelow, an aerospace

1038
00:44:17,616 --> 00:44:21,636
engineer in Las Vegas, who
said he'd lost his wife, his

1039
00:44:21,636 --> 00:44:23,046
son had committed suicide.

1040
00:44:23,046 --> 00:44:25,086
He wanted to know more
about, are they really

1041
00:44:25,096 --> 00:44:26,846
still here in some form?

1042
00:44:26,846 --> 00:44:29,466
And so he put a question out
to the scientific community.

1043
00:44:29,466 --> 00:44:32,326
What's the best scientific
evidence for continuation

1044
00:44:32,326 --> 00:44:34,786
of consciousness after
permanent bodily death?

1045
00:44:34,786 --> 00:44:38,216
And you had to demonstrate
at least five years research

1046
00:44:38,216 --> 00:44:40,866
experience in the afterlife
question to submit an essay.

1047
00:44:41,281 --> 00:44:43,801
But in that context,
they got 204 essays.

1048
00:44:44,131 --> 00:44:46,401
They were going to give
out 3 monetary prizes,

1049
00:44:46,401 --> 00:44:48,201
instead they gave out 28.

1050
00:44:48,941 --> 00:44:51,821
And you can read all 28
of those winning essays

1051
00:44:51,821 --> 00:44:52,951
at BigelowInstitute.

1052
00:44:52,981 --> 00:44:56,551
org And from my perspective,
you read even that

1053
00:44:56,551 --> 00:44:59,171
first place essay by Jeffrey
Mishlove and you realize...

1054
00:44:59,611 --> 00:45:02,261
We're far beyond questioning
whether or not these

1055
00:45:02,301 --> 00:45:03,391
these things are real.

1056
00:45:03,591 --> 00:45:07,261
We're now into, okay, how do
we work this into our larger

1057
00:45:07,261 --> 00:45:08,751
worldview of understanding?

1058
00:45:09,181 --> 00:45:10,741
But, the old heyday of

1059
00:45:10,771 --> 00:45:13,611
materialist pseudo
skeptics, saying this is

1060
00:45:13,611 --> 00:45:16,831
nonsense, science disagrees
with this, are gone.

1061
00:45:17,191 --> 00:45:19,911
Because quantum physics
actually demands...

1062
00:45:20,456 --> 00:45:22,756
This kind of free
will openness of

1063
00:45:22,756 --> 00:45:24,666
sentience that we share

1064
00:45:24,946 --> 00:45:28,766
and doesn't allow for that
complete determinism that

1065
00:45:28,766 --> 00:45:31,256
I thought before my coma
based on my materialist

1066
00:45:31,256 --> 00:45:32,266
scientific studies.

1067
00:45:32,826 --> 00:45:34,736
And once people start
reading these essays,

1068
00:45:34,736 --> 00:45:37,136
and if you're looking
especially for the deep and

1069
00:45:37,136 --> 00:45:40,076
profound scientific essays
in that BigelowInstitute.

1070
00:45:40,106 --> 00:45:41,796
org group, I
would steer you to

1071
00:45:41,796 --> 00:45:44,336
Bernardo Kastrup, and
I would steer you to

1072
00:45:44,376 --> 00:45:46,446
Pim van Lommel, who
won second place,

1073
00:45:46,776 --> 00:45:48,656
and I would steer
you to julie Beichel,

1074
00:45:49,016 --> 00:45:51,316
Now, many of the other
essays are excellent,

1075
00:45:51,916 --> 00:45:55,446
but these three in particular
are the strongest kind

1076
00:45:55,446 --> 00:45:59,416
of scientific footing,
I think, for defining

1077
00:45:59,416 --> 00:46:00,646
this afterlife question.

1078
00:46:01,211 --> 00:46:02,931
Rod Bland: I was going to
ask the question, at what

1079
00:46:02,931 --> 00:46:06,091
point do you think that
the NDE experience or other

1080
00:46:06,091 --> 00:46:07,731
spiritually transforming
experience are going to

1081
00:46:07,761 --> 00:46:12,651
inform the current view of
reality that science has, but

1082
00:46:12,651 --> 00:46:15,881
it almost sounds like that's
really already been answered.

1083
00:46:16,031 --> 00:46:20,231
Perhaps it's more that
mainstream disseminators of

1084
00:46:20,231 --> 00:46:21,701
information like media, etc.

1085
00:46:21,711 --> 00:46:22,761
really haven't caught up yet.

1086
00:46:22,821 --> 00:46:24,061
I think that's probably more

1087
00:46:24,061 --> 00:46:24,931
what the issue is.

1088
00:46:25,756 --> 00:46:28,436
Eben Alexander: It turns
out, there's this incredible

1089
00:46:28,526 --> 00:46:33,096
and unbelievable prejudice
among science writers.

1090
00:46:33,661 --> 00:46:36,661
They are hardcore
materialists, even though

1091
00:46:36,941 --> 00:46:39,971
many in the scientific
community are leaving

1092
00:46:39,971 --> 00:46:42,381
that behind because they
realize with quantum physics

1093
00:46:42,381 --> 00:46:43,721
and especially with the

1094
00:46:43,721 --> 00:46:47,601
2022 Nobel Prize in physics
going for entanglement, which

1095
00:46:47,601 --> 00:46:50,081
is right there at the heart of
the mystery of quantum physics

1096
00:46:50,111 --> 00:46:53,291
that defies the normal
notions of space time as

1097
00:46:53,291 --> 00:46:55,831
being the theater in which
this all happens from a

1098
00:46:55,831 --> 00:46:57,071
scientific perspective.

1099
00:46:57,541 --> 00:47:00,861
But the astonishing thing
is how they do not seem

1100
00:47:00,861 --> 00:47:03,941
capable of understanding
this revolution.

1101
00:47:04,281 --> 00:47:05,861
The revolution is gigantic.

1102
00:47:05,861 --> 00:47:08,921
Read the Bigelow Institute
essays and you'll get it.

1103
00:47:08,931 --> 00:47:10,321
This is all in process.

1104
00:47:10,321 --> 00:47:11,051
It's happening.

1105
00:47:11,381 --> 00:47:13,791
And yet, for example,
there was a paper of a

1106
00:47:13,801 --> 00:47:17,031
month or two ago that was
talking about this burst

1107
00:47:17,031 --> 00:47:20,391
of electrical activity that
happens in a brain, right

1108
00:47:20,391 --> 00:47:21,291
around the time of death.

1109
00:47:21,741 --> 00:47:24,851
And everybody made this giant
deal of these, I think it

1110
00:47:24,851 --> 00:47:28,371
was two cases reported and
this was on top of an earlier

1111
00:47:28,371 --> 00:47:32,521
study where in mice that were
being euthanized they saw this

1112
00:47:32,561 --> 00:47:34,031
burst of electrical activity.

1113
00:47:34,311 --> 00:47:37,401
Bruce Grayson and Pim
Van Lommel put out a

1114
00:47:37,411 --> 00:47:41,171
public response to that
misinterpretation by

1115
00:47:41,171 --> 00:47:42,511
science journalists.

1116
00:47:42,946 --> 00:47:46,246
That continue to trumpet
materialism as an explanation

1117
00:47:46,246 --> 00:47:50,451
for NDEs, because in fact,
When you review, for example,

1118
00:47:50,471 --> 00:47:54,901
Pim Van Lommel's own study
of hundreds of patients

1119
00:47:54,901 --> 00:47:57,791
who had cardiac arrest and
had near death experiences,

1120
00:47:58,131 --> 00:48:02,051
you'll find the EEG goes
flatline in 15 to 20 seconds.

1121
00:48:02,471 --> 00:48:02,991
Period.

1122
00:48:03,011 --> 00:48:03,871
End of story.

1123
00:48:04,131 --> 00:48:08,561
So nobody expects any
kind of EEG activity to be

1124
00:48:08,561 --> 00:48:12,771
associated with NDEs based
on the NDE literature itself.

1125
00:48:13,126 --> 00:48:15,746
And Pim Van Lommel and Bruce
Grayson made that absolutely

1126
00:48:15,746 --> 00:48:20,806
crystal clear to some science
writers who still don't get it

1127
00:48:20,986 --> 00:48:25,076
and continue to pretend that
brain activity causes this.

1128
00:48:25,316 --> 00:48:29,363
The exact point from the
deep literature on NDE's is

1129
00:48:29,363 --> 00:48:32,313
that you don't have brain
activity in these people.

1130
00:48:32,313 --> 00:48:36,243
You have flat EEGs in the
cases where it's measured.

1131
00:48:36,593 --> 00:48:41,353
So walk away from that silly
nonsense and let's get rid

1132
00:48:41,353 --> 00:48:44,963
of this stupid materialist
assumption that the brain

1133
00:48:44,963 --> 00:48:46,083
is creating consciousness.

1134
00:48:46,083 --> 00:48:48,993
Another place where this
is very relevant is a

1135
00:48:48,993 --> 00:48:51,633
whole series of scientific
papers that have come

1136
00:48:51,633 --> 00:48:53,193
out in the last 11 years.

1137
00:48:54,083 --> 00:48:56,633
Looking at people
under the influence of

1138
00:48:56,643 --> 00:48:59,903
psychedelic substances like
psilocybin, magic mushrooms,

1139
00:48:59,913 --> 00:49:03,923
DMT, dimethyltryptamine,
active principle in ayahuasca,

1140
00:49:04,233 --> 00:49:07,473
LSD, one of the most potent
serotonin 2A psychedelic

1141
00:49:08,143 --> 00:49:09,073
substances known.

1142
00:49:09,613 --> 00:49:12,263
And in all the scientific
papers using functional

1143
00:49:12,383 --> 00:49:14,453
MRI, magnetoencephalography,

1144
00:49:14,473 --> 00:49:17,573
ways of really looking at
detailed neuronal activity

1145
00:49:17,573 --> 00:49:21,133
in the brain, what you find
is people under the influence

1146
00:49:21,163 --> 00:49:22,823
of things like psilocybin.

1147
00:49:23,823 --> 00:49:26,563
The default mode network,
which is the network that's

1148
00:49:26,563 --> 00:49:31,503
normally thought to be the
kind of ego network of what

1149
00:49:31,513 --> 00:49:33,603
happens when you're sitting
there doing nothing but

1150
00:49:33,603 --> 00:49:36,223
just existing and aware
of your existence, that

1151
00:49:36,233 --> 00:49:41,093
network completely dissolves
under psilocybin and same

1152
00:49:41,093 --> 00:49:42,673
thing with LSD and DMT.

1153
00:49:42,993 --> 00:49:46,793
And so what we find is the
brain activity is not going

1154
00:49:46,793 --> 00:49:50,873
to explain those incredible,
phenomenal experiences under

1155
00:49:50,873 --> 00:49:52,393
those psychedelic substances.

1156
00:49:52,683 --> 00:49:56,683
So why would we demand that
the brain somehow explain

1157
00:49:57,163 --> 00:50:00,623
these other activities that
occur when people die and

1158
00:50:00,623 --> 00:50:03,423
when their soul is in the
process of leaving their body?

1159
00:50:04,203 --> 00:50:07,053
The bottom line is these are
not created by the brain.

1160
00:50:07,543 --> 00:50:10,653
You've got to give up on
materialism or physicalism

1161
00:50:10,693 --> 00:50:11,983
because it's inadequate.

1162
00:50:12,403 --> 00:50:15,453
To answer these questions
we need bigger models

1163
00:50:15,453 --> 00:50:18,823
like idealism, which is
where we go in our book,

1164
00:50:18,963 --> 00:50:21,123
Living in a Mindful
Universe, the primacy of the

1165
00:50:21,123 --> 00:50:22,823
mental over the physical.

1166
00:50:23,413 --> 00:50:26,093
And in fact, if you really
listen to all the words we're

1167
00:50:26,093 --> 00:50:29,403
saying in this talk about
NDE's and that loving God

1168
00:50:29,403 --> 00:50:32,103
force and how all of this
is really around the one

1169
00:50:32,113 --> 00:50:34,533
mind and how we're connected
through that mental layer.

1170
00:50:34,948 --> 00:50:37,468
You'll realize that it's
not just simple idealism,

1171
00:50:37,718 --> 00:50:40,568
but we're really pushing
for what might be called in

1172
00:50:40,568 --> 00:50:44,498
a philosophical discussion,
evolutionary panentheism.

1173
00:50:45,818 --> 00:50:47,778
That's a better
philosophical description

1174
00:50:47,778 --> 00:50:48,528
of where we're headed.

1175
00:50:48,768 --> 00:50:51,598
But ultimately it's
all just saying that

1176
00:50:51,598 --> 00:50:54,168
the physical universe
is emergent from the

1177
00:50:54,178 --> 00:50:55,098
realm of the mental.

1178
00:50:55,798 --> 00:50:58,518
And that we have much
more power over that

1179
00:50:58,518 --> 00:50:59,368
than we might think.

1180
00:50:59,368 --> 00:51:02,648
And for me as a healer, as
a doctor, where that then

1181
00:51:02,648 --> 00:51:06,378
leads is into placebo effect,
which is an acknowledgement

1182
00:51:06,378 --> 00:51:08,638
of our six or seven
decades that our thoughts,

1183
00:51:08,638 --> 00:51:10,698
beliefs, and attitudes
can influence our healing.

1184
00:51:10,968 --> 00:51:13,108
And then you get into
spontaneous remission.

1185
00:51:13,358 --> 00:51:16,733
And then finally you get into
the category of miraculous

1186
00:51:16,733 --> 00:51:18,933
healing in the setting
of near death experiences

1187
00:51:19,203 --> 00:51:22,783
that begin to show us this
power of understanding our

1188
00:51:22,783 --> 00:51:25,803
spiritual nature and
its ability to influence

1189
00:51:25,803 --> 00:51:28,503
our emerging reality
has tremendous power to

1190
00:51:28,503 --> 00:51:30,353
bring us into wholeness.

1191
00:51:30,758 --> 00:51:31,888
That is healing.

1192
00:51:32,168 --> 00:51:34,978
So any kind of physical,
mental, emotional healing,

1193
00:51:35,008 --> 00:51:38,018
ultimately, will be spiritual
healing, fundamentally.

1194
00:51:38,378 --> 00:51:40,798
And that spiritual doesn't
need any kind of religious

1195
00:51:40,798 --> 00:51:41,958
ingredient at all.

1196
00:51:42,438 --> 00:51:45,098
Even though religions can
help people get into deep

1197
00:51:45,358 --> 00:51:48,708
spiritual states, but
sometimes religious ideologies

1198
00:51:48,708 --> 00:51:50,348
work against spirituality.

1199
00:51:50,678 --> 00:51:52,988
Because ultimately,
spirituality is teaching us

1200
00:51:53,168 --> 00:51:54,498
we're all in this together.

1201
00:51:54,753 --> 00:51:56,423
We're bound through
the forces of love.

1202
00:51:56,643 --> 00:52:00,753
The best way to free ourselves
and others is with kindness,

1203
00:52:00,903 --> 00:52:05,133
mercy, acceptance, love,
when necessary, forgiveness.

1204
00:52:05,623 --> 00:52:08,853
But get rid of this sick
and toxic false sense of

1205
00:52:08,853 --> 00:52:12,553
separation that comes out of
materialism and let's move on

1206
00:52:12,553 --> 00:52:16,563
with the scientific revolution
that proves the oneness of our

1207
00:52:17,033 --> 00:52:19,723
consciousness and how we're
all truly in this together.

1208
00:52:20,723 --> 00:52:22,313
Rod Bland: I love
your passion, Dr.

1209
00:52:22,313 --> 00:52:25,483
Alexander, and you've given
us a whole bunch of other

1210
00:52:25,683 --> 00:52:28,343
like further reading materials
as well, which I'll try to

1211
00:52:28,343 --> 00:52:29,933
capture all these and put
them in the description.

1212
00:52:30,353 --> 00:52:32,153
So how about you just tell
us everything you've got

1213
00:52:32,183 --> 00:52:34,033
going on as I know you've
mentioned a few of your books

1214
00:52:34,033 --> 00:52:35,813
and just tell us everything
you've got going if people

1215
00:52:35,823 --> 00:52:37,743
want to find out more about
your work and what you do

1216
00:52:37,753 --> 00:52:38,773
and get involved that way.

1217
00:52:39,273 --> 00:52:40,413
Eben Alexander: People
can certainly go to

1218
00:52:40,473 --> 00:52:42,583
Eben, E B E N, alexander.

1219
00:52:42,813 --> 00:52:44,113
com to learn more

1220
00:52:44,433 --> 00:52:46,803
and I would especially
recommend on there, there's

1221
00:52:46,803 --> 00:52:49,353
a page that has a lot of
the media, a lot of the

1222
00:52:49,353 --> 00:52:50,873
interviews and podcasts.

1223
00:52:51,243 --> 00:52:55,053
There's a page with
FAQ that addresses some

1224
00:52:55,053 --> 00:52:56,223
of the main questions,

1225
00:52:56,223 --> 00:52:57,783
especially that you
encounter out in the

1226
00:52:57,783 --> 00:52:59,103
lay press about my case.

1227
00:52:59,618 --> 00:53:01,298
And then also I
would recommend the

1228
00:53:01,308 --> 00:53:02,948
recommended reading list.

1229
00:53:03,218 --> 00:53:04,808
More than a
hundred references.

1230
00:53:04,808 --> 00:53:06,898
Many of them have hot
links to the scientific

1231
00:53:06,898 --> 00:53:07,808
papers involved.

1232
00:53:08,248 --> 00:53:09,648
And they're categorized.

1233
00:53:09,958 --> 00:53:13,178
And I try to update that on
something of a frequent basis.

1234
00:53:13,178 --> 00:53:14,958
But I think evanalexander.

1235
00:53:14,958 --> 00:53:16,498
com is an excellent
starting point.

1236
00:53:16,498 --> 00:53:17,868
The books, Proof of Heaven,

1237
00:53:18,108 --> 00:53:18,948
Map of Heaven.

1238
00:53:19,138 --> 00:53:20,413
And especially important

1239
00:53:20,413 --> 00:53:21,933
is Living in a
Mindful Universe.

1240
00:53:22,173 --> 00:53:23,713
That's the real
proof of heaven.

1241
00:53:23,713 --> 00:53:26,223
That's the one that unites
science and spirituality.

1242
00:53:26,223 --> 00:53:28,963
That was co written with
my partner, Karen Newell,

1243
00:53:29,173 --> 00:53:31,463
who's also the co founder
of Sacred Acoustics.

1244
00:53:31,463 --> 00:53:33,813
And we talk in there not
only about the scientific

1245
00:53:33,813 --> 00:53:37,203
revolution, but a lot of
personal recommendations about

1246
00:53:37,203 --> 00:53:40,503
meditation and about doing
this journey yourself, so a

1247
00:53:40,503 --> 00:53:43,093
lot of personal guidance is in
Living in a Mindful Universe.

1248
00:53:43,373 --> 00:53:45,993
Also highly recommended,
sacredacoustics.

1249
00:53:46,003 --> 00:53:46,333
com.

1250
00:53:46,673 --> 00:53:47,913
That's Karen's website.

1251
00:53:48,193 --> 00:53:51,403
She has on their page, I want
to dot dot, and all the many

1252
00:53:51,403 --> 00:53:53,533
things you might want to do
with meditation are there.

1253
00:53:53,763 --> 00:53:56,813
And she has specific pathways
of the different sacred

1254
00:53:56,813 --> 00:53:59,513
acoustics audio files that
might be useful, but you

1255
00:53:59,513 --> 00:54:00,463
don't have to pay a penny.

1256
00:54:00,463 --> 00:54:03,923
You can just either download
that free 20 minute OM file,

1257
00:54:04,213 --> 00:54:06,833
or you could download
that whole mind bundle.

1258
00:54:07,268 --> 00:54:10,218
Like I said earlier, it's
a very discounted price now

1259
00:54:10,218 --> 00:54:13,878
at 19, but she still has for
those who are financially

1260
00:54:13,888 --> 00:54:17,368
challenged as the pandemic
leaves us behind, she still

1261
00:54:17,368 --> 00:54:20,078
has that free option available
for that whole mind bundle.

1262
00:54:20,318 --> 00:54:22,498
So people can jump
in full speed ahead.

1263
00:54:22,898 --> 00:54:24,468
The other website
I'd recommend is

1264
00:54:24,508 --> 00:54:25,778
inner sanctum center.

1265
00:54:26,018 --> 00:54:26,378
com.

1266
00:54:26,378 --> 00:54:27,858
That's I N E R.

1267
00:54:28,063 --> 00:54:29,273
SanctumCenter.

1268
00:54:29,283 --> 00:54:29,673
com

1269
00:54:30,013 --> 00:54:32,913
and that has a number of
different possibilities that

1270
00:54:32,913 --> 00:54:35,693
Karen and I have come up with
that's really through Karen's

1271
00:54:35,723 --> 00:54:39,683
wisdom to have that website
there and especially I would

1272
00:54:39,683 --> 00:54:43,103
recommend the interviews
we did during the pandemic

1273
00:54:43,113 --> 00:54:45,123
about a year and a half's
worth of interviews every

1274
00:54:45,123 --> 00:54:46,463
two weeks that we did

1275
00:54:46,463 --> 00:54:48,033
with thought leaders
around the world

1276
00:54:48,033 --> 00:54:51,213
in consciousness studies, many
of the scientific endorsers

1277
00:54:51,223 --> 00:54:54,423
of our book we interviewed,
other experiencers we

1278
00:54:54,433 --> 00:54:58,133
interviewed, and there's
also a monthly session, Zoom

1279
00:54:58,133 --> 00:55:00,823
session that we hold with
a lot of people who like to

1280
00:55:00,823 --> 00:55:03,953
follow us that's available
through innersanctumcenter.

1281
00:55:03,973 --> 00:55:04,383
com.

1282
00:55:04,973 --> 00:55:08,183
We have a tremendous time
on that monthly broadcast.

1283
00:55:08,183 --> 00:55:11,613
I love it with people who
are deeply into this line

1284
00:55:11,613 --> 00:55:13,613
of work and they join
us every month for that.

1285
00:55:14,013 --> 00:55:16,393
And there's also a mental
health practitioner

1286
00:55:16,393 --> 00:55:18,983
course available at
intersanctumcenter.

1287
00:55:18,983 --> 00:55:19,233
com.

1288
00:55:19,233 --> 00:55:21,843
That's a course that Karen
and I taught with Dr.

1289
00:55:21,843 --> 00:55:22,613
Anna Usom.

1290
00:55:23,003 --> 00:55:26,743
A very valuable practical
course on bringing this into

1291
00:55:26,743 --> 00:55:28,053
a mental health practice.

1292
00:55:28,413 --> 00:55:30,163
So there are all these
different options.

1293
00:55:30,453 --> 00:55:32,353
And then of course the
other ones that I mentioned

1294
00:55:32,663 --> 00:55:34,193
the scientificandmedical.

1295
00:55:35,073 --> 00:55:35,533
net and

1296
00:55:35,533 --> 00:55:36,793
the galileocommission.

1297
00:55:36,823 --> 00:55:40,413
org, especially important
scientific resources.

1298
00:55:40,978 --> 00:55:41,728
Rod Bland: Okay, terrific.

1299
00:55:41,728 --> 00:55:43,868
I'm going to have a lot of
additional reading to do over

1300
00:55:43,868 --> 00:55:44,808
the next little while I think.

1301
00:55:45,178 --> 00:55:47,128
Is there any final message
that you'd like to leave

1302
00:55:47,128 --> 00:55:49,378
people with before we wrap
up our conversation today?

1303
00:55:50,378 --> 00:55:51,658
Eben Alexander: I think
the most important thing to

1304
00:55:51,658 --> 00:55:53,868
say is no soul left behind.

1305
00:55:54,358 --> 00:55:57,178
This revolution will impact
each and every one of us.

1306
00:55:57,218 --> 00:56:00,008
Each and every one of us
has a certain responsibility

1307
00:56:00,008 --> 00:56:03,548
to ourselves and others to
enlighten ourselves about

1308
00:56:03,548 --> 00:56:06,048
this, to come into deeper
knowing of why we're here

1309
00:56:06,288 --> 00:56:07,528
and what this is all about.

1310
00:56:08,428 --> 00:56:10,528
And it ultimately
is very comforting.

1311
00:56:10,818 --> 00:56:13,298
When you face up to
things like death or

1312
00:56:13,308 --> 00:56:14,408
loss of a loved one

1313
00:56:14,788 --> 00:56:16,758
to realize that
we're eternal souls,

1314
00:56:16,758 --> 00:56:19,378
which is essentially what
this deeper scientific

1315
00:56:19,378 --> 00:56:22,538
message is trying to tell us
I think can be very comforting

1316
00:56:22,778 --> 00:56:25,598
very reassuring and very
affirming of what people

1317
00:56:25,758 --> 00:56:28,248
seem to sense at a deeper
level about our connection.

1318
00:56:28,318 --> 00:56:29,588
No soul left behind.

1319
00:56:29,898 --> 00:56:32,118
And it's all about that
binding force of love.

1320
00:56:33,063 --> 00:56:35,373
Rod Bland: Eben, your
enthusiasm is contagious.

1321
00:56:35,373 --> 00:56:36,183
I really applaud that.

1322
00:56:36,233 --> 00:56:38,523
I know you're like getting
on in years, but you

1323
00:56:38,523 --> 00:56:40,053
don't seem to be slowing
down one little bit.

1324
00:56:40,053 --> 00:56:41,443
So that's really
something to admire.

1325
00:56:41,623 --> 00:56:44,103
Eben Alexander: I love doing
this and Rod, thank you for

1326
00:56:44,103 --> 00:56:45,363
getting this out to the world.

1327
00:56:45,363 --> 00:56:46,873
I'm so glad you're doing that.

1328
00:56:46,873 --> 00:56:49,243
And we know we have
some following there in

1329
00:56:49,243 --> 00:56:51,963
Australia and hopefully
they can band together and

1330
00:56:51,963 --> 00:56:54,143
start helping each other
and helping other people.

1331
00:56:54,143 --> 00:56:56,433
And this is all about
helping our fellow beings.

1332
00:56:56,553 --> 00:56:58,513
So let's get
together and do it.

1333
00:56:58,658 --> 00:56:59,728
Rod Bland: all right
I appreciate you being

1334
00:56:59,728 --> 00:57:01,058
my guest today, Eben.

1335
00:57:01,328 --> 00:57:01,948
I'll see you soon.

1336
00:57:02,193 --> 00:57:03,683
Eben Alexander: All right,
Rod, thanks so much.

1337
00:57:03,743 --> 00:57:04,593
Good talking with you.

1338
00:57:05,233 --> 00:57:06,243
Look forward to next time.