The Modern Hotelier #151: Diversity, Attracting Talent, and Creating Impact in Hospitality | with Anna Blue
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Steve Carran: Welcome to another episode of The Modern Hotelier.
Today we are excited to release our conversation with Anna Blue.
David, what were some of your favorite
takeaways from this
conversation?
David M: Well, I think you know. First of all, great interview. I think it's always amazing when we, we have people that have come from another industry and just kind of somehow find their way into hospitality. So I, I really liked our conversation with her and I liked, you know, how she was really, uh, focused in sticking up for kind of some things that I think more people have to talk about in hospitality.
Steve Carran: I agree. I agree. I, I kind of said what I was gonna say, but I, I love her background of being in politics and then kind of. Going into the DEI segment and then bringing all of her experience into hospitality. just people coming from outside the industry often have a different perspective than those of us that may have been in the industry for, for 10, 20 years or more.
so overall I thought it was a great conversation and honestly, a lot of topics that we probably should be talking a lot about more. So, we hope you enjoy this conversation and let us know what you think.
David M: Enjoy it.
Welcome to the Modern Hotel, your hospitality's Most Engaged podcast. I'm David Millili.
Steve Carran: I'm Steve Carran.
Jon Bumhoffer: And I'm Jon Bumhoffer.
David M: Steve, who do we have on the program today?
Steve Carran: Yeah, David. Today we have on Anna Blue. Anna Blue focuses on driving social impact and business transformation. She's a trusted voice in e equality, leadership, social impact, and the future of work. She's spoken at some of the world's. Biggest stages, including Keynes Lions, Fortune's Most powerful Woman, next Generation South by Southwest, the World Economic Forum, CES and Sustainable Brand Summit.
What a list. Welcome to the show, Anna.
Anna Blue: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.
David M: All right, great. So we're gonna go through, we're gonna go through a quick lightning round questions. We're gonna get to know you a little bit better, your background, your career, and then we're gonna jump into some industry topics. Sound good?
Anna Blue: Sounds great.
David M: All right. First question, what's something that you wish you were better at?
Anna Blue: Organization being organized.
David M: Okay. What's the most used app on your phone?
Anna Blue: Oh, right now, LinkedIn.
David M: Okay, good. What's a luxury you can't live without?
Anna Blue: Luxury I can't live without probably my cell phone.
David M: Okay. If you could trade places with anyone for a day, who would you trade places with?
Anna Blue: Uh, Michelle Obama.
David M: Good answer. What is the best advice you've received?
Anna Blue: Best advice. I've ever received is when people show you who they are, believe them. The first time
David M: Got it. All right. Last one. So what's your favorite city and why?
Anna Blue: my favorite city is Aspen. Um, I do not frequent 'cause I can't afford it, but I was there for a conference, uh, at the Aspen Ideas Festival years ago, and it had just everything about it took my breath away.
David M: Great.
Steve Carran: That's fantastic. Uh, well now we're gonna go into more of your personal details, your background. Um, so currently you live around. Around the DC area, I believe you said in Maryland. but where did you grow up? Did you grow up on the East coast, around the DC area?
Anna Blue: So I'm gonna try to keep this short. No, I grew up everywhere. Um, I was actually born on a hippie commune in Canada. Um, true story. And then, um, my family sort of moved west to east, so, um, I lived everywhere from, I'm gonna do this quickly. Seattle, San Francisco, Fort Worth, Texas, Fort Collins, Colorado. I went to high school in upstate New York and then moved to the DC area for college, and I've been here ever since.
Steve Carran: That's incredible.
Anna Blue: Yeah.
Steve Carran: based in Fort Collins, Colorado, so you know how awesome of a city I am currently? Yes. It's my favorite city I've literally ever been to. It's incredible. So you know how great it is, but so how did living. Kind of across the country and I guess growing up on a hippie commune shape you into who you are today.
Anna Blue: the exposure, right? So many people I've met, I probably had four different accents by the time I came to college. Like, I can do Texas, I can do Brooklyn, I can do all of it. So, yeah, I just, the exposure to a lot of different, spiritual paths and religions in my family. Um, I come from a very culturally diverse family and, but then living in so many different places, in lots of different types of neighborhoods and communities, some rural towns, some big cities, everything in between, really just taught me a lot about our country, about the people and, and all of that.
So, and, and I very much have used that in my career.
David M: And you got your master's from George Washington University in Education Policy. So what kind of led you down that path?
Anna Blue: so when I. Started in the workforce. I started in, in politics. Um, I did kind of what you do if you live in dc I did the, the lobbying side, worked on political action committees, went to work on Capitol Hill, did a little bit of grassroots, uh, for a nonprofit and, and, but always was like a closeted middle school social studies teacher and thought, okay, I don't really have.
the opportunity or the time to like go back and start a teaching career. I was already six years into my career and, in politics and so I thought if I can marry the two, my passion for education with what I've learned in politics and, and putting those together. And I discovered that as a degree that you can get.
So I did, and I loved it. I learned so much about, our country and education systems versus other countries. It was really fascinating.
Steve Carran: That's great and, and you've done, you know, some volunteering. You sit on board, positions. One thing that really stuck out about your background was you worked at this, organization called Girl Up, and you know, you didn't, I. Just leave or you didn't just stop working with them when you left.
You're currently an advisor board member for them. Can you tell us a little bit more about that organization and what makes you so passionate about it?
Anna Blue: Yeah. so I was working in urban education and um, a friend of mine sent me this job description for Girl Up, and it was this visceral reaction, like I jumped off of my couch and I've never responded to any other I. Job posting like that in my life. And so, uh, I was fortunate enough to get hired and, and I worked there for seven years.
And just the, the idea behind Girl Up is training a new generation of young leaders in high school and college, to become advocates and activists in their communities for gender equity around the world. So. It could be, you know, a group of young women in a high school trying to fight a gender bias dress code all the way to girls in Malawi fighting for access to education and everything in between, right?
And so it's just this, to create a generation of change makers is extremely exciting and inspiring. And some of the greatest lessons I've learned have been from 15, 16, 17-year-old girls. And, so even when I left for a new opportunity, I very much stayed. On the board. I have been on the board ever since, since 2020.
Um, very involved. The, the CEO, the current CEO, although she is leaving, she is one of my closest friends. Um, I still stay in touch with so many of the young women. I just, it is an organization that has and always will bring me a lot of joy.
Steve Carran: I love that. I love that. So now we're gonna move on to your career a little bit, kind of how you got to where you are today. So, uh. You started after you started your, your career in politics and as a campaign manager. First of all, I'm curious, you know, coming from somebody who came from Wisconsin to dc it's a whole different world, Washington DC area.
You traveled around the whole country and then got to Washington, dc What really sparked your interest in getting into politics and second. Apart to that question, what do you take from those early days that you still take with you today? Or what did you learn in those early days that you still take with you today?
Anna Blue: Yeah. it was an accidental career choice. My undergraduate is actually in computer information systems. It was like the tech boom of the late nineties, early two thousands. So I thought that's what I was supposed to do, to go make money. I graduated with all of these like certifications in different, uh, software programming and engineering, and realized I didn't wanna do any of that.
So I went to a temp agency. Actually, my plan was to leave DC. And I went to a temp agency and said, you know, I just need to work for a year or two so I can save up money. I'm gonna move, to where my dad's family was in California. so they put me in a position as an administrative assistant at Mutual of Omaha in their government affairs office, an eight person office.
So very small. And I was so fortunate to work for two lobbyists, and this is gonna sound crazy for, given today's state of politics, but I worked for two lobbyists. One was a democrat, one was a Republican. They were good friends. had been right. Even just that, um, one was really good at the sort of legislative side and ethical side of lobbying.
One was really good at the social side of lobbying and both of them beautifully took me under their wing and, so I learned a lot from both of them. I'm still in touch with both of them 20 something years later, and I'm really grateful for those relationships. And so that sort of started me on this career of. Politics and kind of all the different opportunities that I mentioned. Uh, and it was great. I did that for eight years and, and wrapped up actually on, the 2008 presidential campaign, trail, which was a great way to, to wrap up my career in politics. What do I take away from it? Um, thank goodness I no longer do that, is what I take away from it. you know, when I think about what it was when I worked on the hill in the, in the early two thousands to what politics is today, it just, it honestly breaks my heart. It's so sad. And, you know, I worked for Senator Ben Nelson from Nebraska. He's a, a democrat in Nebraska, so like purple on a good day, right?
And. And it was still like just he was, he was there for the right reason. Truly believed in, in making his state better and supporting his constituents. And and he was one of the, what they called at the time, the Senate 12, who they would bring together this bipartisan group of people to make deci, to help make decisions and keep things that had been stalled moving, and.
And it was just like, what an incredible thing to be a part of. Like when you think about it now in today's terms, to think that's what it used to be about. It used to be about reaching across the aisle. It used to be about discussion and dialogue and how do we meet in the middle? And it wasn't like I'm planting my flag and it's this flag only.
And so I can't even imagine what it feels like to work in that world now. It's, it's so different than what I remember it being. And so that's what I take from it is like. You always wonder when you're gonna be at the age to be like in the good old days. And that's what this is. It's like the good old of politics.
and that's what I'll take with it is, is being able to be there at a time where it was still this beautiful human centered thing.
David M: So when we look at your career, a lot of the companies had a advocacy driven initiatives in those companies. So whether it be we talked about Girl Up or the Tech Coalition, were those focuses in those companies and in your career, is that what drew you to those companies? I.
Anna Blue: Yeah, it's really the, the opportunity to do good. I mean, that is, um, so what I learned, the reason I made my career pivot is the campaign trail, as I mentioned, was the really the first time. I was outside of the ivory tower of DC politics and, and connecting with real human beings and talking to people in neighborhoods from Florence, South Carolina to Akron, Ohio, and, and understanding why people vote the way they do, understanding what they're looking for, understanding how legislation that I personally had worked on, like impacted them in real life.
And it was like, whoa. What I want is human connection. I don't want this sort of separated ivory tower. Away from human beings. I wanna know that if I'm doing something and I'm spending time away from my family and, and I'm showing up every day and giving of myself to something that it's gonna do good in the world.
And so, that is why I have selected the roles that I've selected, whether it was, you know, the Washington Jesuit Academy Girl Up Tech Coalition, or the HLA foundation, any of those, you know, in the, in, even in hospitality. Like, how can I take this industry and do good? and that really is what it, what it has been.
Steve Carran: That's great. And from there you kind of became the president. You not kind of, you became the president of DEI and marketing at Story Marketing. I'm curious about this. What strategies did you implement to ensure that DEI principles were integrated, into the companies different marketing campaigns?
Anna Blue: Yeah. So what, what that really was about, and I still do this work for, for a lot of folks kind of on the, yeah, we'll call it my side hustle, if you will, is coming out of 2020. and the racial justice uprising and all of those things. What we saw is that marketing communications. Folks in companies, regardless of what the company does, they were petrified.
Like, how do I talk to certain audiences? How do I represent certain audiences? You know, do I say black versus African American? Like, when do I say Latinx versus Latina? I mean, just so many things that people didn't have the answers to and a lot of marketing agencies still are, have. People who look and think and talk and, and act very much the same.
And so the people inside making these decisions don't represent the people that they want to consume their products and their marketing or, or what have you. And so, I spent a lot of time doing research to understand cultural context and history of various demographics, like across the board and then the intersections of those.
I looked at age. I looked at like introvert versus extrovert. I liked it. Um, you know, certainly race and culture and background and gender and, and all of those things, but really across multiple spectrums to see how people consume information, but also like what was the history of representation of those different groups of people that got us to where we are.
And, and then just went out and started working with different companies to train their marketing and communications prof professionals on, how to do that better. And I created guidelines and, and all of these things to just help people feel. More confident in their skillset, knowing how to talk about how to represent, what questions to ask themselves, for their marketing so that they don't get caught up in a, I always think about the Pepsi ad with Kendall Jenner as like, that is always the do not do that.
Let's not repeat history. Good intentions can land very poorly. And so to, to help people help themselves. and it was great 'cause I learned so much. Like I don't consume media and marketing or language or narrative the same way anymore at all. Knowing everything that I know.
David M: And so your most current role as president of A HLA, how did that come about? How did you, you know, from listening to everything you're talking about, how did you end up in that role? I.
Anna Blue: I did a favor for a friend. Um, and that is actually the truth. So, um, my, my best friend was at a HLA working in HR and she was newer in her role and she said, there is an opportunity for the president of the foundation. It's the first executive role that I'm recruiting for. and I wanna show them the type of caliber candidate that I can bring to the table.
I was at the tech coalition at the time and. And she said, well, you just apply. and it was my way of like helping to make her look good, right? So, so I did, and, and it was a long process. Like it was sort of quiet for a while and then she's like, oh, they, you know, they read your resume, they wanna do a Zoom call.
And I thought, okay, I guess I'll talk to them. And, and it was fine. I mean, lovely, it's hospitality. Everybody was. Was kind enough and, but I got off and, and I remember, you know, saying to my family, like, I, I don't wanna make her look bad, so if I'm gonna drop out, I should probably drop out now. And then she said, well, you never know, so why don't you just go to the next step and see what happens?
And and so I did and, and actually, and I wasn't fully sold. I think I sort of understood the work. It felt really disjointed to me. You've got sort of like, oh, we do a little bit in academia and like also human trafficking. And it felt a little all over the place and I didn't fully understand how I could, you know, be of service and, um.
And then I met the, the board chair at the time and he. Told me his story in hospitality and he was so passionate about the industry and he explained all of these opportunities to do good. And I thought, like what I've learned in my 20 something years in doing this type of work is like in order to really make change, if you want to really move the needle forward to benefit humankind, you have to have access to resources, decision makers and power.
You have to, or otherwise you're just spinning in the dark. And so. I thought if I can find five people in hospitality that are as passionate about this industry as he is, I can do a lot of good here. Like we could do a lot. Well, it turns out everybody loves hospitality. Like everybody is as passionate as he is and excited as he is.
So it ended up being an incredible gift, but it really was was him. that kind of turned my head of like, oh yeah, if I can dig into that, if I can tap into that type of passion. Is my oyster in terms of, of doing good for the people in this industry.
Steve Carran: That's incredible. And it, it's kind of funny how life works out. Um, I knew we were gonna have you on today and earlier in the week I got my lodging magazine and was flipping through it. And guess who was talking about the forward initiative in it? It was you. And I'm like, I'm excited to talk to you about this, but.
Kind of to that question. is there anything that you did at A HLA that either was a phenomenal learning experience for you, kind of in this, in the hospitality space or something that you look back at and you're like, wow, that was a special moment, or, I'm really proud that I was able to have a hand in that.
Anna Blue: Uh, there are honestly so many things, you know, coming in when you're the outsider who hasn't spent your whole career in hospitality. That perspective and just my overall. Desire to disrupt things, but the, but the industry truly being so welcoming of that disruption and that being supported, not everybody feels that way.
That was not my experience working in tech. Um, and so, and then you, like you think of them as the disruptors, but careful what you're disrupting on. So, um. You know, I will say the, the two that really come to mind, you know, are one, is it's the connection with the students. You know, the A HLA Foundation started as a scholarship fund over 70 years ago, and really only recently expanded those programs.
And so the, the commitment that it's had to, to the academic, Part of the industry and the future, the next generation. but being able to, to start to modernize that. So really digging in, getting the student voices and perspectives. You know, we're seeing hospitality programs. the enrollments are going down, some of them are closing or they're merging with other programs because they're so small, they're, they're struggling.
And so to really help be that bridge between students in the industry so that it's not just a degree, but it is actually a career path that they wanna pursue. Um, and I, I think that it is my. my experience from my girl up days and my, my time in urban education, like I just love young people. I am like, I think that there's so much hope there.
There's so much excitement and inspiration. I'm going back to Penn State next week to teach a class just because I love it so much and, so I think just that connection with the students and knowing, like I've had students write to me or come up to me and say like, you are the reason that I am pursuing X or I didn't know that I could be passionate about something and do it for work.
And so like, thank you and you know, and I just like that is really what fuels me. the other is certainly forward. You mentioned it. I didn't know Forward was going to be part of my job. It was a conference that lived under a HLA, not the foundation at the time. And so we never talked about it, never talked about.
Gender and hospitality, none of that. And so it was just a fun coincidence that I came in and they were like, oh, you have a background in this, maybe you can help. And then I ended up being like, I'll just take that, that is now mine. And that was welcomed. And so, you know. The forward network was about 300 people, when, when I got there and by the time I left, it's over 5,000 and the conference grew, you know, by about 60, 70%.
Um, and, and just re really being able to bring in my expertise in gender equity and the thought leadership piece and kind of connecting all the pieces so that it's not just like another women's conference. There's a lot of those, but like how do we actually make it something that's meaningful and powerful for the industry?
and for the people in it, and, and I'm really proud of, of just the growth and the excitement that we generated around forward.
Steve Carran: That's fantastic. That's great. So now we're gonna dive more into the industry thought section about this, and I am very, very excited to chat with you about this. DEI has been a huge topic of conversation, obviously in the past few months. and. It's actually DEIA that A stands for accessibility. So that's actual the full acronym.
But I wanna know, what are you seeing kind of with this outside DEIA kind of backlash and in the hospital with the hospitality almost industry, how is that correlating with that? And in your opinion, what should we be seeing that we're not seeing right now?
Anna Blue: Yeah. Yeah. wait, are we still allowed to say DEI? Like is that, is that real? Um.
Steve Carran: I, I don't think if, if we get canceled, I guess we're out then.
David M: Yeah, I, I was gonna say, yeah, you can on this podcast.
Anna Blue: Um, we're seeing a lot of different things, so I would say, and this is not just true to hospitality, although I think the hospitality piece is that the workforce is so diverse, right? We have such a, from different people from different backgrounds. Cultures, communities, all of it. It is. It is such a diverse industry at a certain level, and it gets less so as you climb up that ladder and so.
I think it's not, it's less about what we're seeing and more about what we're hearing, so I'll talk about both of those. What, what we're certainly we're seeing in hospitality is companies are either staying the course, they're saying these initiatives are important, we're gonna keep doing them. I. Maybe they're calling something, they're calling them something different.
They're calling, you know, they're talking about access, they're talking about company culture. They're talking about those things, but they're just not saying diversity, equity, inclusion, accessibility, belonging. They're not using those words anymore, which has its own set of challenges. The work is what's most important.
I will always say outcome over words any day. But at the end of the day, you also have some employees who feel very strongly like, if we're gonna do this work, then we should be honest about what it's, and don't try to hide it. You see other companies that are saying, great, it's a great opportunity to save resources.
Let's get rid of our chief chief diversity officer or whoever we hired in 2020 to make everybody happy. And it's an opportunity to get rid of these programs. Um, we also, during moments like this, tend to see programs that impact people of color be removed, but companies will double down on programs that support.
Support women, mostly because those are ineffective programs, but they make people feel good. They make your employees happy, but they don't actually lead to pay equity, access to decision making opportunities, things like that for women. And so. It's a great way to say that you're continuing the work without actually having to make any changes, um, internally and then so you kind of see all of it.
I remember at Alice earlier this year, there were six CEOs on the stage and they were asked the question and all of them said they are continuing their efforts around DEI, which is a great thing to see. I think silence also speaks volumes. So the fact that we are an industry that has not said that outside of a stage at Alice, that is not leading the conversation to say, Hey, this work continues to be important.
We want to continue to create these opportunities. These opportunities matter for people. all of the data in the world points to the fact that diverse executive teams lead to higher profitability. That is the bottom line. You wanna make more money, which I think they all do. And you want your company to be more successful, diverse executive teams make a difference.
And yet that is certainly not what we see. Go to any leadership page in our industry and, and you're not gonna find many that really, truly are our diverse and representative, but. but the fact that the industry is not being transparent about what they're doing, that's the concerning piece because we have an opportunity to lead instead of follow and silence is, is. Following. Right. A lot of industries aren't saying much. You have certain companies, for better or worse, that have said yes or no, or here's what we're doing. but we've seen where it's worked. the hospitality industry, the hotel industry specifically, has been transparent and open about human trafficking, and it's worked in our favor.
like that's a topic most. Industries that are, that are part of that ecosystem, which is many, not just ours. they don't wanna touch it. And, and the hotel industry has welcomed it, the not human trafficking, but the conversation, what they're doing about it. They've been upfront, they've banded together.
And I think there's a, a huge missed opportunity around DEI around immigration. I think that the silence, speaks volumes and, and it's a little bit disappointing.
David M: So I'm very curious on your thoughts on this question because I was just at ITB and late night drinks Canadian, me, the American, a a Greek woman and a Dutch guy talking about equality in, in hospitality. 
Anna Blue: That sounds like the beginning of a joke, but keep going.
David M: there was no duck. There was no duck involved. So anyways, as we're wrapping up Woman's History month, where are you seeing the, kind of the gender equality gap in hospitality?
Are, are, what are your thoughts on that, that gap? And are we at least moving in the right direction or do we still have, I know, I know we have a lot, a lot of growth there, but what are your thoughts on that?
Anna Blue: So we don't have enough time to get to all of my thoughts on this, but um, I think
Steve Carran: contr. We actually cleared out our whole schedule just for you today, so we got four hours.
Let's hear it. 
Anna Blue: All right. Let me order, order some DoorDash and we can just dig in. So, for me, it was really eye-opening coming into the industry because I've been in gender equity for over a decade. I have been in a lot of rooms with some of the, the leading experts and, and thought leaders on this, this issue. To come into a very old school, very corporate environment and really see where the system is broken and where the system is broken for women has just been really eye-opening. I do think that this is an industry that absolutely celebrates and champions and wants to elevate the women in it. So I'm, I don't speak ill of that part of it.
I also think that. It is very old school, as I said, and, and we tend as human beings to hire and promote people who look like us, think like us, act like us, talk like us. And if you are not actively working against that, sort of baseline, then senior leadership is always going to look the same. You know, the Penn State did a report in 2023, that showed like we are.
About 60% of the hospitality workforce and are 6% of industry CEOs. That's insane. Like that's just, you know, when you see that type of drop off as you move up the pipeline. Um, and there are such incredible women leaders in this industry, and so the fact that we're not tapping that talent To be in the boardroom and to have decision making power and, and all of those things we're just missing out.
Like we're missing out on profits, we're missing out on success. We're missing out on innovation. And so it's a shame to, to really have that be, but you do have to work for it. Like executives actually have to be able to. To be willing to like, think differently about hiring and promoting and who, who is the right fit.
Like fit is one of the worst words you can possibly use. 'cause like what, what determines fit? Like it's your biases and we all know that. And so there's so much opportunity and I do think the intentions are good, but we are not seeing the movement that we should be seeing.
Steve Carran: Absolutely. Absolutely. And one of the points you brought up was kind of how hospitality has, really talked about human trafficking as something that is top of mind in the industry. I, I don't know if you've heard more about this, but I, I don't, I haven't heard too much. I haven't heard much on immigration.
we've heard about it like in politics. Often, but we haven't heard about it in the industry. Do you have any, I, I guess any thoughts on that? Should we be talking about it more? Should How should we be dealing with that?
Anna Blue: I guess the question is why haven't we heard anything? Right? You're speaking the truth. Um. I don't know how we're not having this conversation. I do think, you know, as I said about DEI, I think this is a great place for the industry to lead. And if that, even if that is just convening the right people at the table to say smart immigration reform is great.
Right? there is also, you know, I've been in rooms with dozens of owners who are talking, to political strategists. This was. Just last fall, right before the election about their concerns about mass deportation, about their concerns about some of the administration's promises on immigration and what that's gonna do to an industry that is 20-35 of made up of immigrant, employees.
And so how do we. Have such a culturally diverse workforce and stay silent on this issue. Like we should know where the industry stands. And I think that smart immigration reform is what I've heard since day one. it's allowing people who are here legally to be able to work Faster, asylum seekers who are here, right now what we're seeing is it's chaos, right?
It's very chaotic on the immigration side and who they're deporting and, who they're not, and all of those things. And our industry is bound to be very much impacted by that. What we started to hear very early on was people just not showing up for work because they're afraid. So now we already have, especially at the entry level, you know, at within the industry at hotels, like there's already a labor shortage.
And now you have people who are just afraid to come to work. And if you don't know where your company stands, if you don't know where your hotel stands, of course you're not going to show up for work. You're gonna do something in the gig economy, or you're gonna, you're gonna try to make a living elsewhere in a place that feels safe.
And so I think we are just doing a disservice. To not be talking about this issue, to not be leading on this issue to like, like we're biting the hand that feeds us by not, by not letting people know that we are doing everything that, that we can for them to be safe in their jobs, and in their communities.
And I think that that is what I believe that this industry actually does stand for. They're just not saying it.
David M: Yeah, it is amazing. Real quick before I get to the next question, it's amazing. I started, I did some advisory work for a cashless tipping company, and it was amazing that there was pushback from housekeepers because they didn't have bank accounts. I. They didn't, they, they, they didn't wanna give their information to a company like Stripe or they, they just didn't want to do it.
So, to me that was like, when I heard the number, I think it was like almost 40% of the workforce in the US doesn't of, hotel employees don't even have a bank account. Like that's why these check cashing places still exist, that you probably, for a lot of us, you drive by and go like, who the heck is cashing a check?
Anna Blue: Right. 
David M: anyway, so I.
Anna Blue: Yeah.
David M: Of the other big topics, and it would be great to hear your perspective on how our industry hospitality is doing, but human trafficking obviously is a big issue. And so what are your thoughts on how maybe hospitality is addressing it and doing a better job than maybe other industries?
Anna Blue: Yeah, this is where, you know, I think we have really set, set the trend and set the path, path forward and, and created a space and an opportunity for others to join the table. And we haven't gotten to that. Point yet, but I think we have, we have laid the foundation for, for that to happen. And so, you know, as I mentioned, I mean this is a trillion dollar global ecosystem of human trafficking that, that I worked on even before HLA foundation through the tech coalition, which was working with all the tech companies to combat child sexual abuse and exploitation online.
there are a lot of organizations around the world that work on this issue. It is part of, you know, financial services, every part of travel and tourism, certainly not just hotels. it's everywhere. I mean, parking, like truly everybody faces this issue. and we are the ones that have gone public with it to say, this happens in hotels.
It's not something we welcome or something that we want, but. we offer privacy and anonymity to our guests. We want that to continue, but balance that with human safety and safety of, human beings. So we're gonna do what we can and what we can do is train employees. Make sure that they know how to spot instances of human trafficking, what to do if they think that they see it.
Make sure that. Our companies are, telling employees that even if they're wrong, it's okay. It's better to be safe than sorry. And, there are authorities that can handle this gently and like they will not be penalized for wrongly identifying something or for questioning something. And. it's been really beautiful.
I was recently talking to the Cruise Line Association and they were, you know, they're getting hammered on this issue as well, but they haven't joined together and they haven't come together to say, as an industry, we are standing against this and here's what we're doing. and so. The A HLA and the HLA foundation get mentioned in a lot of spaces and, and by organizations who are doing this work for the fact that the industry has come together to take a stand and to take a public stand, which could have gone horribly wrong and actually has not.
and so I think that that's, that's an incredible thing to be proud of. I'm certainly proud of, of. Of my time at the foundation working on No Room for Trafficking. Um, and I'm excited to see that continue because it is, it's impacting business, right? Like it's impacting capital that's being distributed.
It's impacting contracts, like there's now human trafficking contracts in every. You know, in every hotel sale and, and all of these things. So it is an important one and it's been really, it shows the power of an industry coming together to do something good. and they've done it well. And I think there's now an opportunity to reach out across travel and tourism more broadly and bring everybody to the table.
Steve Carran: I love that. I love that. Well said, well said. So one thing that we talk about on this podcast a lot is A, staffing shortages, and B, how can we, I guess, make the hospitality industry more attractive to younger talent? how do we get better retention out of that talent? So. what advice do you have or how do you see this shaping up?
How can we do a better job at attracting that young talent?
Anna Blue: So I'll say, you know, first I'll talk about the academia part of it and then those non-traditional, you know, young people who didn't necessarily pursue a college as a next step, which is also great. And there is also a lot of room in our industry for that. Um, one, I think that there used to be a different. Air around service jobs and coming into the industry and sort of paying your dues and then working your way up that way, that now, I don't know, a parent out there who is going to spend money on four years of college so that a person, a young person, can graduate from hospitality school and go work at the front desk.
Like, I just don't know who those people are. college is a, a massive investment can, very different than what it was 50, 60, 70 years ago. when hospitality had a different prestige in college. but I. Those programs. A lot of the hospitality schools, and they acknowledge this, they are still very much training students for operations jobs.
Whereas students want corporate jobs. They want to contribute. They wanna either, you know, they wanted to go into sales, marketing or revenue management. They wanna go on the commercial side of the business. Maybe they want to go and work at Marriott HQ down the street from me. Like they want something different because that is what college is supposed to be.
Now, college is supposed to propel you past the jobs that you could. Walk out of working at IHOP and go get a job at the hotel across the street. And so they want something a little bit different and, and the schools haven't responded. So there's still a lot of them have very operations focused. when they're taking people for a tour, they're focused on the operations side of it and that is where there certainly is support.
And I met a lot of young people who are willing to go to the front desk and. Or who even wanna get their start in housekeeping so that they can understand, but that's not the norm anymore. And again, if you're investing in college or you're coming out with a hundred thousand dollars in loans, is that really the direction you want your kids to go?
My son is now in the industry. He's 26, he, he's on the development team at Sesa. And, and I know that financially he is gonna be good. And, and that's what you want for your children. And so. I think that the programs need to evolve. How we teach hospitality, what we teach in academia needs to change, so that students feel inspired, they feel ready to go into the corporate job as if they were studying finance, right?
Like finance isn't training you to go be a bank teller. Finance is training you to go and work on Wall Street, right? And, and you're probably gonna land somewhere in between those things. And that's okay. And so. The hospitality programs in academia have to adapt to that because there is nothing exciting, not nothing.
I think they're great, but there's nothing, you know, when students are looking at all the different schools within a university that they could study, hospitality isn't one that is like ringing true to like truly get what they need to be able to get the type of career and lifestyle and, and financial success that young people today want.
And I think that's very different. Than, than what it used to be. Certainly, even when I came in, like I started as an administrative assistant, I think it was one of the best jobs I ever took. Um, but that's not the mentality anymore and we have to adapt. in terms of people who are non, they're not students.
Um, I think hospitality is wonderful. There's incredible opportunities. There's so many different career pathways. The way that service is framed when people can do, you know, driving an Uber is still service delivering. DoorDash is still service, but there is something like sexier about the gig economy, right?
Even though like you're still doing a service for people. so how does hospitality adapt to make. That type of service also feel like, like it's an exciting and sexy way to go. Right. And, and we haven't done that yet. Like I said, this is such an old school industry that is very slow to change and it is hurting us in every capacity.
So we need to talk about hospitality differently. We need to talk to different people, in a very different way. It can't just be that this guy was a bellman and now he's a gm. We have like, that's a great story. And it's what's beautiful about this industry, right? The upward mobility, but like it's not working.
So we have to, to tap into how people respond today and it's very different. We need to follow the tech companies. We need to follow the gig economy and market hospitality differently.
Steve Carran: Very well said. No, that was fantastic. That
Anna Blue: to say.
Steve Carran: very well said. Very well said. So Anna, this, this is kind of fun part of the show. We've been asking you questions this whole time. So now we're gonna turn the tables and we're gonna let you ask David and I a question.
Anna Blue: Okay. Just one.
Steve Carran: If you wanna do two, you can do two. You can whatever you wanna do. It's your show now.
Anna Blue: Okay. I love this. So, gentlemen, um, as you think about, you know, you interview a lot of people, you from all different facets of the industry. What do you think, like when you think of what it means to be a leader in this industry, what do you think of?
Steve Carran: What
Anna Blue: I know certain people come to mind when I say that to you.
You don't have to call out any names you can, but like what does leadership and hospitality look like to you?
Steve Carran: David, you wanna go first or shy?
David M: I'll go. I think, know, for me, if I go back to that late, late night conversation in Berlin. For me, you know, being a leader in any area, a lot of it comes down to communication. So knowing what your employees want. So the, the, the woman I was speaking to as I was saying that, I think, and I don't want to go just to the, the kind of the, the, the, the sex, you know, the, the, the bias, you know, from a sex basis.
But I think men need to do a better job of asking all their employees, of what they want. Out of their career. And I think in some cases we need to do that because sometimes people don't say what they want. And I, I was just saying to the woman, I said like, good example for me is I just had somebody who recently worked for me.
I asked her what she wanted. We came to an agreement. Her time working with me led her to the position she wanted post. I knew I didn't have the position for her at my company, but it let it post. So for me it's a, that communication with the staff, knowing how you can kind of aid and guide people. And then for me it's also just, you know, it's, it's the cliche, cliche stuff, but just leading by example.
So, you know, I love to tell the story where, you know, I was at an event Madrid and I was cleaning up the tables for the, at the booth and this couple came up and said, oh, we're here to see so and so, and I said, oh, let me get her for you. And then later she introduced me as the CEO and she was like, they were kind of like, they were like amazed that you were the one cleaning up the tables, but you were the CEO.
And so to me that was like, that was just common sense. That's like what should be done if the table's dirty, kind of clean it up. So those are just two kind of things, but that's, I'll let Steve go now.
Steve Carran: no. no. I, I, I think we're on the same page. I think it's, I'm sure you've been around these people where after a conversation. You're just like stunned and you almost have this energy about you. Like, wow, that person, they, they left a lasting impression, not only on that conversation or my day, but on my life.
And I think that's what it's about. Hospitality is all about people and how you make people feel. And on top of that also how you can help people. whether it is, you know, I'm thinking of leaders in the industry, how they can help, you know, maybe. Somebody's career trajectory by just being a mentor or something like that.
But you know, really the overall growth and positive impact of people on people. So hope, hopefully that person you impacted will also make an impact either down the line or even that day on somebody else. But that is, that is like why I love this industry so much. It's because I know I've personally been impacted by so many people in this industry.
So now I also. I want to give back. I wanna make an impact myself on the younger generation or people I come in contact with on a daily basis. So that's my approach. But, um, this
Anna Blue: that. I think both of you very much summed up hospitality like it is leadership, but it is actually hospitality I love. Thank you.
Steve Carran: Absolutely. That was a great question. That was a great question. So we have one more question for you. Our producer, John has been sitting in the background listening this whole time. So he's gonna ask you one more question and then we're gonna get you outta here.
Jon Bumhoffer: So coming from a kind of a different background into hospitality, I'm curious, what were some things once you kind of started getting into it and meeting with people and really being a part of it, what, what was surprising to you? Maybe positively and maybe negatively too. Like what? I'm curious, what you thought was surprising.
Anna Blue: Yeah, I think the surprising part really, truly is how much hospitality, people love hospitality. Like I wasn't. I have worked in a lot of different spaces and industries and with a lot of different companies, and I've never, I. Experienced anything like with this level of excitement and passion and and that connection to human beings.
And, and it is really truly what inspired me to come in, but actually being a part of it, it's so much bigger than I thought. And, and sometimes it makes people very long-winded and they have so many stories to tell you, but their, the excitement is, is really great. And then on the, the less, I think the other thing that surprised me, and you know, as I said, coming from more of the like social impact activism space, um, just how old school, how.
No offense to anybody on this call, but old white guy, the industry really is. And, and, but how much, like I do think that there is, there is good intention and people sort of get it, but don't know how to get there. And, and so I don't even say that truly in vain, but it is, we will never get the type of talent that we want.
We won't be the industry of choice for a lot of really incredible people and servants and thought leaders and experts. If we don't change. How this industry, accelerates the careers of people. And, and that's just the reality regardless of, of the chaos that's happening on the political spectrum. It is something that will plague our industry.
People will not choose this industry because they're gonna look online and say, there's no place for me here. I don't think we're doing enough on that front, but I was not expecting, especially because of my experience walking into hotels and seeing all of the different people from all walks of life, when I walk into a hotel, to see that, like how abruptly that stops, um, was very, very eyeopening.
David M: Well, this has been great. That does it for another episode of the Modern Hotelier. Anna, let people know how they can get in touch with you. If they wanna reach out, they wanna learn more about you, or just connect with you. What's the best way for people to do that?
Anna Blue: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so as I am, you know, figuring out my next step in my journey and I'm calling this my fun employment era, um, so always happy to connect with with anyone. Um, you can find me on LinkedIn. Anna Blue also. Um, I mean, my email's anna@bluemossgroup.com. but yeah, this is a great time for me to, to really lean into the relationship building piece and just hear from people and, and be of service any way that I can while, while I'm taking some time.
David M: Well, that does it for another episode of the Modern Hotelier, hospitality's Most Engaged Podcast. Whether you're. Watching or listening. We appreciate you and we thank you, Anne, for joining us.