Rob: Welcome back everyone to Subspace Radio.
It is me, Rob,
Kevin: and me, Kevin.
Rob: And we are here to talk about a new episode of Star Trek that has dropped.
We are here to talk about episode three of Star Trek: Starfleet Academy.
We are going to talk about all the ins and outs of the episode and then
that will springboard us off into deeper topics, related to, uh, said
episode within the Star Trek oeuvre.
Kevin: Specifically this week we're talking about sports.
Rob: We are, we are going not just any sports, 'cause there are
sports that we know now that may have popped up in, but also sports
specifically of the future time.
Kevin: Future sports.
I like it.
Yeah, that does narrow it down a little bit.
Rob: It does narrow it down slightly.
So we're at episode three of Starfleet Academy and I think we can safely say
that this everything, all the sort of like the trepidation or, or the
thoughts about what we were going into with a Starfleet Academy, people going,
oh, it might be a bit high schooly.
It might be about young adult.
This episode is.
All the young adult, all the, it felt like the high school drama
that you kind of were gonna expect doing a Starfleet Academy show.
It was all on display here.
Kevin: Yeah.
And what did you make of that?
Was that, uh, for the worse for you?
Rob: Look, it was, it was all right.
It was all right.
I, I, I liked the balance last week of the, the Starfleet diplomacy
with the, the, the teenage stuff.
It felt a little bit sort of like, you know, um, Buffy the Vampire Slayer lite.
And I was a huge, I was a huge Buffy fan in back in the day.
Um, and so.
Yeah.
Uh, you could see what they were going for and it didn't annoy me as
much as it, uh, as, as it could have.
How about you?
Kevin: Yeah, it's well executed.
Like I, I think you're right that this was the one I was like, oh yeah, this
is what I thought it was gonna be.
But, uh, it's done well and so I, I enjoyed it.
There was certainly.
Like for, for what might be described as a bottle episode where the stakes were
low and they didn't really go anywhere, um, it was nevertheless very polished.
Like the amount of phaser shots and transporter effects that
they had to do for this episode.
Uh, let alone the, the pyrotechnics of the, um, the trial field, uh,
Rob: Yes, it was very, it was very danger room.
If anyone is a a a an X-Men fan.
Kevin: Um, yeah, so like I feel like the, the production value is still very high
and the, the acting was still very good.
I still love all the characters and we got to see more of them here.
We got to.
See that Genesis has a few cracks, like she's got some, um, daddy issues as, as
it was called in the, uh, in the episode.
And, uh, nice to see Reymi as well, brought down a peg as he, he very
much, uh, clearly needed to be.
Rob: And not surprisingly, he has his own mommy and daddy issues coming out as well.
We had some, yeah.
And we had some, um, uh, reveals of some romances within the staff.
Kevin: Yes, indeed.
Yeah.
Very satisfying.
Uh, everyone's favorite nerd jock, hybrid, uh, explained what brought
them back from Discovery, and that's, uh, really good to see.
Rob: And makes a sense.
Nerd Jock Hybrid is with a, you know, Jem'Hadar, um, Klingon
hybrid and they want to eat French.
Kevin: I want coq au vin.
Rob: Um, she did have one of the best lines I have ever heard in Star Trek ever.
And for, for a Comedy Star Trek line to outdo, uh, Lower
Decks, I'm very impressed.
And they should tip their hat, you know?
Kevin: They have shennaned and they will shennan again!
Rob: That's right.
And, um, I particularly like the fact they are the best and the brightest,
but they are still kids and they will act like kids and the kids are idiots.
Um, that, that's, that's my official word as a, as a high school drama teacher.
But also the fact that Ake had to explain subtly to the point of not
subtly about this is what you need to do.
Kevin: Yeah.
If there's anything about this episode that didn't fully work for me, it
was that, that thing of, supposedly, Ake was like pointing the way to, uh,
appropriate revenge the whole time, and it was all there to be seen in hindsight.
I watched this episode twice and it's, it's kind of there if you wanna tell
yourself it's there, but like that thing of, oh, Ake was, was the mastermind
the whole time is not as satisfying as it should be because it doesn't
quite feel really, really on the page.
Uh, but yeah, that, that moment where she goes, uh, she goes, Kelrec and his
tea loving eye, or whatever it was, and she just does the, does the, uh,
Rob: a physicality,
Kevin: Mad-eye Moody pose is what I, I thought of it as,
Rob: There's a bit of a hump as well at point where she's doing like a,
they're going, what do you doing?
Kevin: That's what, yeah.
Literally we're sitting on, we, we looked at each other on the couch and went, What?
What was that supposed to be?
Uh, and in hindsight, it makes sense.
Uh, yeah.
Uh, otherwise enjoyed this episode for what it was.
Lots of, lots of phaser fights.
Uh, a new, a new Star Trek Sport introduced in Calica and yeah,
lots of, hi, lots of hijinks.
Uh, Mugatu!
Yeah.
Awesome.
No way I'm wearing that.
Smash cut to Mu-ga-tu!
High five.
You know, really good.
Rob: And there was some sort of reference about doing something to the horn.
Anyway.
Um, yeah, the, that when you ever see an, when you ever see an invented sport
in fiction, whether it be Quidditch or whether it be here, um, trying to get
a grip of the rules and so you're there going, alright, okay, so they're, they've
got, it's almost like claim, claim the flag, but it's, you know, hit the mascot.
Um, and they're using phasers and the phasers teleport and you go in the
penalty box and there's certain rounds, so it's a little bit dodgeball as well.
Um, but it's always the case of going to why are they in mascot costumes?
Is that how they
Kevin: There's like one line where it has become tradition that
we use the mascots in the game.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: You're like, okay.
Rob: Okay.
So I guess in if, if they do a World Cup version of it or you know, at the
professional level, it wouldn't be
Kevin: A lot can happen in 800 years, Rob, I'm, I'm very forgiving
about using mascots in the sport.
That's okay by me.
Rob: Very true.
Very, very true.
I, I have to be a bit more considerate, but it's always that
case of sports invented by people who probably never played sports before.
Kevin: Yeah.
Would it?
Yes.
I think that will be a recurring theme in our conversation
about sports in Star Trek.
The writers of Star Trek are probably not the world's biggest sports fans,
but yeah, you have to squint and go, would that be, uh, uh, would
that work as a game in real life?
Probably not.
There's this one shot that on the second viewing, Caleb takes out
one of the war college people.
He disappears, and there are two more crouching right next to where
he was in the same line of fire.
And I'm like, come on, Caleb, keep shooting.
Why wouldn't you keep shooting?
You take the other two out.
Nope.
Uh, so yeah, it, it is definitely a, uh, made for TV sport that probably
doesn't hold up under close scrutiny.
Rob: Yes, yes.
A lot of rules have changed in the 800 years, uh, Kevin.
Um, but I like the, like simple stuff, like within the reality we set it up and
so then they set up like having a sniper.
I'm that's really clever idea.
But they only use it once.
Um, otherwise yeah, 'cause they're going well, that would kind of defeat the game.
'Cause if you had sniper every single time.
Um, but all the.
All the traits that you would find in a teen drama or a
high school drama were there.
So it's the two opposing campuses.
You had, the the two opposing deans you had the hazing
rituals with involving mascots.
Like that's been around since, you know, 1950s style, uh, teen dramas.
It was sort of like, oh, you gotta get the mascot from the other campus
and you've gotta do something with, you know, the mascot, there's a
goat or a pig, or in this case, you know, an alien creature with a, with
a horn sticking out of its head.
Kevin: And you had the contest for who would be captain of our little cadet crew?
Um, Reymi or Genesis?
Rob: The love interest on the other campus.
Kevin: Hmm.
Rob: So, yeah, all those traits were they, they, they've sort of
like spread them out a little bit like in the first two episodes and
now they've just gone full episode.
all
Kevin: The fact that all of the, uh, the genre elements are there, makes
this feel maybe a little less original.
It, it's maybe a little pedestrian as plot.
Rob: Bit derivative.
Yeah.
Kevin: What, what makes it satisfying is the character work.
Like all the little details.
Having Jay-den stop the War College people with his attempts
at Klingon humor was hilarious.
And that character driven hygiene stuff is what really sells it for me.
Rob: And one of the combat, uh, combat, uh, cadets act going, hear him out.
And I'm there going, bit of a spark.
Yeah.
Kyle, spark there.
Yeah.
Kevin: Everyone loves a Kyle in Star Trek.
Rob: Have you seen the, there's been a bit of video footage online of the actor
who plays, uh, uh, Jay-den, um, showing what his real voice is how, and how
he, he, he dips his voice to that lower octave, and he goes, this is my normal
voice and this is my Klingon voice.
And I've worked on that.
And this is what they, they said, they may touch it up a
little bit, it's pretty much me.
And you hear that change, you go, that's good acting, that's actoring stuff.
That's the craft.
Kevin: His voice is very impressive.
The.
Rob: Yes, very impressive.
So, I like the fact, especially in this, um, all the characters
are kind of made fun of, or not held at too much of a high bar.
And so you, everyone is, you know, even like Caleb has been, has been,
had the rug pulled out from under him many times to bring him down, which is
great, but the other characters as well.
So we're, I like that fact that they're not precious about the characters
and so we can all see them, um, humbled, which I really appreciate.
Kevin: We got to see a lot more of your Arnold Rimmer lookalike,
uh, Kelrec, this episode as well.
He got, uh, he got face smooshed to steal his DNA.
Rob: He did, he got very, he got, he got embraced in a very traditional,
and I do in, in, in bunny ears way.
Um, he's, yeah, the scene with, um, uh, him and Ake was great.
Just the fact that he's there going, I'm not apologizing and I'm not gonna stop.
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: Uh, and yeah, the,
Kevin: If you must stir your tea.
Rob: That's right.
He's a tea nerd.
Tea expert.
And like the pranks as well.
That's another thing we didn't talk about like the, I didn't mention the pranks.
That's so high school kids as well.
And we got bird, we got a Romulan flipping the bird.
Kevin: Yeah.
I think back to our past episodes, bemoaning a single F-bomb in,
in an episode of Star Trek.
It's all over the place now.
The the horse has truly bolted.
Rob: Yeah, the, the horse is now a wild Brumby out in the highlands
of, of New South Wales, new South Wales, up in the Blue Mountains.
Kevin: Ake laying on the set or, you know, reclining and switching reclined poses
between lines of dialogue is definitely, you know, that was not a one episode
thing that is going to be her character.
And, um, I like how the costume is playing into it.
Like there, the fact that she has bare feet, they have given her like these gold
chain half sock things that like cover her, her ankle and half of her foot, but
leave her toesies sticking out in the air.
It's cool like little gold sock thing she's got going on.
Rob: I'll have to pay more attention to Holly Hunter's feet.
I'll have embrace my inner Quentin
Kevin: jewelry.
Rob: Foot jewelry.
Excellent.
That's great.
Um, yeah, I'm absolutely loving it.
And um, I know we don't like mentioning the outside world too much, but there's
been so much online negativity about, you know, disrespect for the captain's
role or the rolling around or the feet up and all that type of stuff.
And I'm there going, oh my heavens.
It's just a bit silly.
Um, it's a
Kevin: You must read different websites than I do because I
I have not seen that stuff.
I'm out there.
There's all, any new Star Trek series is bound to, uh, attract some, some
hate with everything new they try, but,
Rob: That's the thing I like, I put a post up just on my personal, uh, Facebook
page and that's kind of open to everyone.
Um, so normally when I, if I do a big post about Doctor Who,
um, I did about like season two, the most recent one Ncuti Gatwa.
And I got people who have never followed me, never seen me, people from all over
the world leaving their negative comments.
And I put up a post with, uh, Holly Hunter with her feet up reading the
book, I love, and the glasses and.
The amount of love I've been getting has been great, which I didn't expect.
I didn't put up for anything other than I just wanted to talk about how
I love the show and promote Subspace Radio, but then I'm getting messages
from all around the world of people going, oh, it's disrespecting.
I'm going, yeah, it, I, I, I'm being trolled.
I I have been trolled Kevin Yank.
Uh, uh, but yes, the positivity and the negativity is a bit balanced,
but the people who are embracing it, uh, it's silly thoughts,
which is silly, silly, silly.
Kevin: Uh, well, speaking of silly things, what did you think of our digital dean?
This episode, Colbert was everywhere.
Rob: He was, he was, there was, he was dropping gags everywhere.
All
Kevin: I, I am, I am struggling to understand the function of
the Digital Dean, because he is not the only computer voice.
Uh, so the, so he's not just the computer voice of Starfleet Academy, and yet
he's calling scores on simulations to decide who's gonna be on the Calica team.
And so he kind of is the generic computer voice.
I don't know if use him when he is funny.
He was using the ad, the ad that they were screening at the start
that got cut up with, uh, other footage later in the episode.
But, uh, oh, my favorite, my favorite line of this episode was when Ake
went, Is the voiceover too stupid?
Rob: That was a good line as well.
That was really good.
Um,
Kevin: Oh, and where are my warp core pajamas, Rob?
I need, I need a set of those right away.
Rob: They have, uh, just launched a thousand, uh, online sites of
people doing, cheap immitations until we get the official, uh, starch,
Starfleet released warp core pajamas.
Um, do not accept any substitutes.
Kevin: Are they accordions?
Are they little accordions?
They are warp cores!
Rob: That's, that's, that is the, the clearest sign I have seen of going,
we're gonna be doing merchandise.
If people watch it enough.
Kevin: Yeah.
The other thing worth just touching on is the, the basketball scene and later
the, the confrontation in the Mugato costume of, uh, the Betazoid Princess and,
uh, Caleb, that evolving relationship.
Rob: And she's an Aussie actress as well, I've found, I found out, yes.
And the it, it's like a transparent almost basketball, or maybe it was just
the lighting, but it looked like the ball
Kevin: Yeah, it looked like it was like a web or a, a mesh or
something, you could see more through the middle of it than the sides.
It was interesting.
I kept squinting at it, going, is that a CG ball?
No, they seem to be holding it.
Rob: Yeah.
Um, now that relationship's developing really nicely.
I was worried it would just be, you know, um, they'd be right
into it and sort of like embrace the, the sexy sexiness of it all.
But, um,
Kevin: Look, they got a kiss this episode.
It's moving along.
Rob: Yeah, but it was that case of going, we've only known each other,
you know, you know, five minutes and
Kevin: We are strangers.
Rob: We are strangers.
Um, so yes, coming along nicely, both characters are well represented.
Again, the whole case of they're not, no, there's no perfect idol character.
It's sort of like they're just, you know, sorting their crap out and
they're making mistakes as they go along, which I really appreciate.
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: Can we talk about, can we talk about hologram logic?
Kevin: Okay.
Rob: Okay.
Um, why does a hologram need to be in their underwear?
And
Kevin: She doesn't have ribs, but she does have underwear.
Rob: Yes.
And why does she need to have a tangible, physical, tactile jacket
at the end when she could just,
Kevin: Oh, interesting.
Yeah, just there's
Rob: Just zip it on?
Yes, it is the whole thing if you do bring in like a character that is a hologram.
Um, they did it really well with, um, the Doctor back in the nineties, and they
did, but they had issues with that, with like Arnold Rimmer in, uh, Red Dwarf.
That's right.
I love the fact that we're bringing in Red Dwarf references
in, in a Star Trek podcast.
But yes, the logic of, uh, and like, uh, being teleported into water and they can
have bubbles come out of their mouth.
I know that's yeah, just the reality of a human, but it's, that's
that of things you need to think about when you have a hologram.
Kevin: Yeah.
I did not notice the bubbles.
They would've bothered me if they were especially noticeable, I think.
But I did like the, she said, I, I had a bath for the first
time, or something like that.
After that experience.
Like the fact was in water was an exciting first for her, uh,
which I enjoyed the fun of.
I, I. I get the sense she's here, just like Commander Data was, is she is
reveling in every new humanoid experience, new corporeal experience she can have.
So if all of our friends are in the change room in their skivvies, so will she be.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: Now, did she actually remove clothing and is she
dressing herself every day or is.
Uh, is her, well, her, her cost, her costume must be holographic most of the
time because she is, uh, porous as we see.
And, and her costume disappears as well.
Rob: And when she, yeah, when she gets shot, she, they goes
straight through her costume.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
Kevin: I think, I think she.
I'm glad she was given a physical jacket like everyone else.
And I buy that a hologram can wear a physical jacket in Star Trek.
Will she be wearing that physical jacket all the time or will she, you
know, add it to her program so that she can project it whenever she wants to?
Like maybe like, that's kind of where these things sit with me is that
Rob: And she
Kevin: can interact with physical objects when she wishes, but is
mostly light most of the time.
Rob: Yes.
And she can keep that jacket, say, in her quarters.
And that's a, you know, an heirloom.
Kevin: Yeah.
But the bubbles I don't think would wash with me either.
I, I think I agree that, well, I mean, if you can project fingers and toes,
why can't you project breath bubbles?
I mean Sure.
Go for it.
But,
Rob: Well, look, we're, we're using the 800 year, you know, a thousand years
in the future, uh, uh, uh, loopholes as
Kevin: I would hope if there's an episode where these, these
characters are underwater with breath breathing apparatuses, that
SAM would be the only one without bubbles coming out of her suit.
Like that would be a satisfying detail for me.
So I, I hope they would be on top of that.
Rob: Well, I assume we're at the point where now that we're getting to the,
the crux of the show, we may see an episode focus on each of the characters.
So we see a Jay-Den centric episode.
This
Kevin: Well, this seemed to be our, uh, Darrem Reymi episode, maybe.
Rob: And so like Caleb seems to be our lead, so he's gonna have
elements of his story every week.
But yeah, hopefully we get, uh, a bit of SAM focus and a day in the
life of Starfleet with a hologram.
Kevin: Yeah, I hope so too.
Rob: And no, Robert, this week we missed you.
Kevin: No, Robert Picardo.
No.
And we're still waiting for Tilly's, uh,
Rob: Tilly's, yeah.
And I think I'm, yeah, like you said last time, I think she'll be a one and done.
She'll pop in for a cameo and be gone, but we've got Tig and so if
we get Tig more, I'm very, happy.
Think this, some people have been saying it, this seems to be a
better fit for her within, uh, the Star Trek universe than Discovery.
And there
Kevin: Yeah, she kinda wandered around engineering on Discovery being a
professor of engineering most time anyway, so it is a very good fit.
Dispensing pithy wisdom seems to be her natural state.
Rob: And that, yeah, that, that throwing of shade seems to work
well to, uh, generate and, uh, put the students into place.
Kevin: All right.
Well, there was a bit of sports.
I mean, you could quibble over whether Calica is a sport, but it was.
Literally in the dialogue called a sport.
So we are calling it a sport.
There's a bit of basketball as well.
So we had the, we had the traditional recognizable, uh, existing sport that
has lasted a thousand years and we had this made up space sport as well.
Rob: Space sport!!
Kevin: Yeah, I, I think I like going by sports because a lot of
these things turn up like they're peppered over multiple episodes.
Um, for me, if we're talking made up Star Trek sports, because we have
talked to Earth sports in the past, like there's, there's the baseball
of it all in Deep Space Nine, in Take Me Out to the Holosuite.
We've talked about that at some length.
So I think let's, let's play with the made up ones today and my first made
up sport that always comes to mind first, we have talked about it before.
It's from Star Trek: The Next Generation season two, episode
14, The Icarus Factor in which.
Commander Riker, uh, gets all kitted up in a laser tag outfit from the eighties,
because that's when this show was made.
Rob: Yeah,
Kevin: and, um, confronts his father Kyle Riker in a grudge match between
father and son in a game Anbo-jyutsu.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: Uh, this has, uh, this has a, a pattern in Star Trek that I quite like
where sports are considered dangerous.
They're considered more dangerous than their everyday jobs exploring
space in the final frontier.
They're like, oh, well, you know, if you're gonna play sports,
take your life into your hands.
There's a bit of that going on in Star Trek.
Rob: Well, there's definitely a sense of like, like in Deep Space Nine,
like baseball is like, is, hasn't been played for hundreds of years.
Kevin: Uh, it's retro.
Coming back.
Rob: Yes, and it has a sense of, you know, it's retro or it's ancient or
it's outdated, but the element of
Kevin: There's definitely a novelty, like playing sports is not an
everyday thing for this world.
It is, it is a novel, uh, pastime.
Rob: Yeah, and it's like, because their part, especially in the TNG era and
onwards, their leisure time are the games they play within the holodeck.
Uh, and especially with this episode that's done within the holodeck,
but whether it's doing, you know, a, a film noir style book reenactment
or going to, you know, a, a, an Irish village hundreds of years ago.
Um, that seems to be their leisure activity as opposed to physical
exertion and, uh, competition.
Kevin: Well, Dr. Pulaski has a speech in this episode.
You'll remember she, she once was in love with Kyle Riker, and uh, so she
knows both of these men, and she has a speech where she's like, Ugh, males
of the species, they just, they can't settle their differences except, you
know, getting in a ring and knocking the stuffing out of each other.
What, what barbarity.
I thought we had moved beyond this as a species.
And like that, that she, she's painting with a very broad brush there and, and,
um, it, it feels to me like the nerds who write Star Trek talking about how
pointless organized sport is as a pastime.
Rob: Look, yeah, it does lean into the cliche that all nerds hate
sport and jocks hate, hate science fiction and stuff like that.
I'm there going, the lines have blurred a lot over the decades and
you can have, you know, sporty, sporty nerds and you can have, you know,
uh, you know, nerdy jocks as well.
But yeah, at this point in the late eighties, early nineties, never the
twain shall make, the Venn diagram are just two separate balls that should
be in different, uh, orbital pulls.
Kevin: Apart from their head to toe, laser tag get ups, uh, which are
like made of molded plastic, uh, and in two different colors so you
don't forget which one is which.
They're, they're holding basically like quarter staffs with, uh, with
boppers on the, on each end, like these, these cushioned mallets on each end.
So they're like, you know, doing the typical spin the staff and whack each
other and they're trying to knock each other off of a platform, seems to be the.
It's very American Gladiator
Rob: I was just about say, it's very, it's very Gladiators.
Yeah.
Um.
Uh, yes.
We had our gladiator time here in Australia in the nineties,
uh, but, and in the UK as well.
And we in this exciting moment when you're a child, when the British
Gladiators came over to Australia.
Uh, but I digress.
Uh, yes.
It, it, if any, any raised platforms and you have to knock someone off,
takes any legitimacy out of it and turns it into, okay, we're just
doing a TV show called Gladiators.
Kevin: So yeah, it's entertaining.
I mean, the, the sport is kind of beside the point here, as it is most of the time.
A means to an end.
These characters, in the end, Riker discovers that his father
has been cheating all these years by doing an illegal move.
And, his father goes, oh, I had to cheat to stay ahead of you and
keep you, keep you interested.
And, uh, with that, the last shred of respect that Riker
has for his father evaporates.
Um, but they patch it up in the end anyway.
So yeah, it's a, it's I think a very, um, a very typical use of a sport in
a drama series is to, to bring some conflict between characters to a head.
And, uh, it does that here, but just, I can't get over.
It's worth, if you have not seen this episode, just go look
up a photo of the costumes.
Here season two of Star Trek, the Next Generation, I think the, the actors
were still being surprised by the, uh, the costume of the week they were
being asked to put on and go going, oh, well, I, I signed up for a space suit.
I didn't sign up for a laser tag outfit.
Rob: And this is the season two, so this is like 1988.
So it in the height of neon, uh, a spandex.
Kevin: Yes.
Oh, it, it looks very much like a TRON outfit without the lighting, if you will.
Rob: Oh, excellent.
Oh, you're speaking my language.
Um, well, I'm gonna jump ahead, uh, to, uh, my show of course, because it's,
you know, we're doing a podcast on Star Trek, so it wouldn't, it wouldn't be
right if I didn't talk about Deep Space Nine, but there's a sport in there that
isn't actually mentioned in the show, but online it's known as Springball.
Uh, it's from, uh, season four, episode 22, uh,
Kevin: For the Cause.
Rob: yeah, where, um, where we're like put into thoughts that Kassidy Yates
is, uh, a smuggler for the Maquis, um, and Eddington is still there in his
position of a trusted member of, uh
Kevin: Well, not by the end of this episode.
He is unmasked in this one, yeah.
Rob: He is unmasked at the end.
But we have, um, it's not really the focus of it.
Like with, uh, your, the Riker boys using the sport to sort out their
differences or find the resolution of their issues or stuff like that.
Um, this is like, the game is the background and the focus is, um,
you know, Garak and Bashir talking about, uh, Gul Dukat's daughter
who is on, uh, the space station.
And of course, uh, Garak is drawn to her.
Um, whether they were trying to draw some sort of attraction, but we all know
that it was Garak and Bashir all along.
It was more that Cardassian connection 'cause she's part
Bajoran, part, uh, Cardassian.
Kevin: I, I remember Ziyal this is, yeah,
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: Dukat's daughter.
There's the, the Cardassian flirting scene where they find
themselves alone in the turbo lift.
And uh, and one says to the other, you have nothing to fear for me.
And the other one says, well, you have nothing to your fear for me.
And it's like, oh, that's Cardassian flirting!
I promise not murder you.
Rob: So yeah, everyone's going, you know, Garak is just so,
um, is, he's clearly gay.
And go, well, what maybe we're limiting what, what, how he identifies,
you know, Garak could, could be, you know, uh, could be poly, could
be bi, could be, you know, pan.
He, you know, he's a, he's a, he's a modern future, you know, man about
Kevin: Don't put him in a box.
Rob: Don't put him in a box.
If he wants to, I was gonna do something very crude there, but I won't.
We're a classy establishment here.
Um, so yes, the game is in the background while this, these
machinations and discussions are happening and it's Nerys playing this
game, which is kind of like squash and wall ball and a bit of handball.
So they're in like gladiatorial, sort of like, padding stuff.
They've got helmets on.
So you can have the cliche winning a point and you know, the, the
player takes off the masks and does a ah breath of fresh air.
And Nerys does that quite a few times.
A bit of physicality in it,
Kevin: Yeah, there's people knocking each other down.
Like, I think there's an, there is another episode of Deep Space Nine
called Rivals in Season Two, where, uh, Bashir and, uh, O'Brien have a
rivalry of handball, uh, or racquetball, they call, yeah, it's racquetball.
Rob: It's racketball.
Is kinda like squash, but with a bouncier ball.
Kevin: Yeah.
Two seasons later, here, springball seems to be like the, the
Bajoran version of raquetball.
instead of
like rackets, have these little like saucers attached to one hand.
Rob: Yes, and they have to knock it up against the wall and the
other person has to knock it.
There's points awarded, but there's a point where like Nerys is on the floor
and looks like she's lost, but she catches the ball and everyone cheers and screams,
and so it appears she's won a point for catching it, but they don't do it all the
Kevin: The arbitrary rules.
When when to only stand the scrutiny of one scene in the
Rob: Yes.
Yes.
Um, so look, it looks like a hell of a lot of fun.
Um, as we know within the Harry Potter world, uh, they have taken
Quidditch and there are leagues and teams of many young youthful physical
uni students playing, uh, Quidditch.
Um, so I could see if there are any older but physically inclined
Star Trek characters who would like to start a springball league.
I will be more than happy to join.
Kevin: Wow.
Rob: How, that looks like, I used to play a bit of squash in my day.
Not very well, but I did.
Kevin: Springball is, follows the pattern of a lot of these sports where they
are mentioned in dialogue a few times and then at a certain point they're
like, let's actually show a match.
Um, and uh, yeah, that, that this seems to be the one actual appearance
of springball, although it is mentioned throughout the series as
something people do as a pastime.
And, uh, the next one I wanted to bring up, uh, Parrises Squares is
Rob: I was gonna bring that up as well, which is mentioned,
but we've never seen it.
Kevin: We have seen it now in Prodigy for the first time.
Rob: Oh, now I've gotta go back and watch it.
Kevin: In Prodigy season two, episode eight.
Is there in beauty, no Truth.
This is the one where zero gets their, um, humanoid body, briefly.
Yeah.
In the background of this episode, like the, these, the, our Prodigy
characters have made their escape from the Voyager-A, uh, secretly,
and they have left their holographic replicas behind, fooling everyone.
And the holographic replicas are unmasked in a match of Parrises Squares
where the, uh, the Vulcan Maj'el kind of spots that the, the holograms'
personalities are all mixed up.
they, they play a game of Parrises Squares with them, uh, for Admiral
Janeway to, to demonstrate that the personalities are wrong.
And so we see a court of, uh, you know, it is a small basketball sized court, I
guess you would, but the floor is made up of a grid of squares that rise and fall,
Rob: Yes, that's right.
Kevin: And the, there are, there are.
Kind of targets at either end, but there's three targets instead of just one hoop.
And something that is consistently mentioned, uh, when Parrises Squares
is talked about in dialogue throughout the history of the show is ion mallets.
So they're holding ion mallets and Parrises Squares.
I think for me is the, the, prototype for the dangerous sport that people
go, oh, he plays Parrises Squares.
He's respon, uh, irresponsible, uh, you know.
They, they do this dangerous thing in their spare time and it says
something about their character.
But, uh, by my research, it was first mentioned in TNG, season one, episode
15, 11001001 with the Bynars, in which, uh, the ship is undergoing maintenance,
and so everyone goes off and does their pastimes and Tasha Yar and some, some,
and Worf and some other crew member are kind of wearing blue spandex suits.
And talk Riker into going to play Parrises Squares to represent the ship.
They're gonna, the, the Enterprise Parrises Squares
team is gonna play against the Starbase's Parrises Squares team.
Um, and, uh, it's, it.
There is a beautiful detail that I never noticed in that scene before when I went
back and watched it as Riker wishes them.
Well, by doing this kind of hand sign, he says, do us proud, and he does one
of these, which is like a live long and prosper, but with a thumb over the palm.
Rob: right.
as,
Kevin: And he, he kind of does it sideways, like do us proud and
it's, it's almost live long and prosper, but it seems like, is
Riker trying to make this a thing?
The, the Enterprise hand sign?
It, it's Lower Decks, decades ahead of time, I never saw it before.
It is hilarious to see him do it.
I'm, I'm sure it wasn't in the script.
It is, it is 100% Jonathan Frakes slipping in an ad-lib physicality.
Rob: How could I have forgotten that?
Oh, Prodigy, bringing the game again.
It is a shame it has been so overshadowed.
What a gem of a show that was.
Kevin: We had a mention of Parisi Squares just last week when we were talking about
the First Duty season five episode 19.
That's the game that Boothby had to spend three weeks cleaning up the grounds
of Starfleet Academy after the Academy team unexpectedly won against Minsk.
Minsk has a team, and Starfleet Academy has a team, and they were
rivals and Minsk was favored.
Um.
We had it again in Voyager, season three, episode 22.
Real life in which the Doctor creates a holographic family for himself that
goes home to after work every day.
And his young daughter Belle plays Parrises Squares with older
children and is killed in the game.
She suffers traumatic brain damage and is going to die, and it's
too much for the Doctor to take.
He switches off the program, uh, and, and is dealing with his grief
through the end of the episode.
Rob: Oh my gosh.
Kevin: So it is, it is deadly that Parrises Squares.
Rob: Yes.
It is really deadly.
Those those are ion mallets.
Oh
Kevin: Yeah, there was talk of, I think Riker talked about, I've
taken an ion mallet to the ribs tell the tail that sort of stuff.
So yeah, Parrises Squares I think is f for me, the, it's the, the
first kind of made up team sport that I remember in Star Trek.
And, uh, it took it until Prodigy when they showed it.
And inevitably, just like all of these, it is less satisfying to see
it than it is to hear it told about.
Like, I think it is very hard once something has been built
up in myth and legend to make a satisfying, uh, embodiment of it.
And the Parrises Squares game in Prodigy is brief and I would
say somewhat underwhelming.
Like, you're like, really?
That killed the Doctor's holographic daughter.
I don't think so.
Rob: Yeah, there's a bit to, oh, I mean, that's, that's, you know, that's.
Almost four decades of lead up and preparation sort of like wonder and
nothing could ever match up to what we Star Trek fans have created in our mind.
Um, and it's finding that balance of going, like adding in the levels
that move up and down, trying to find something that's, yeah.
Finding
Kevin: a bit 3D chess.
It's like what if the, what if we take this game that we know as
flat and make it three dimensional?
Rob: Yeah, exactly.
And add in ion mallets, um.
Kevin: I had one more on my list.
Rob, I it's on your list as well.
Rob: Well, you got Parrises Squares, uh, off my list, so I'm glad you
got to do the deep dive into that.
And I'm, I'm regretting that I did not remember the, uh,
the, the Prodigy episode.
Which one are got?
Kevin: Uh, velocity, which is a game that is mentioned in
dialogue in Voyager several times.
And then we finally see it in one episode.
Season four, episode 26, Hope and Fear.
Uh, Janeway in Seven.
Play a one-on-one match of velocity at the start and at the end of the episode.
And these matches bookend the events of the episode in which, uh, uh, as seems
to happen multiple times per season in Voyager, Voyager almost makes it
home, but it turns out to be a mirage.
Uh, they, they are working to decrypt a message they received from Starfleet
command and a helpful alien comes along and says, here, I, I decrypted it for you.
And the message takes them to a ship, the USS Dauntless, uh,
which looks a lot like Janeway's Voyager-A in, uh, Prodigy, by the
Rob: Oh yes.
Kevin: And this ship has been outfitted with a quantum slipstream
drive that supposedly will get them home in a matter of months.
Uh, it's all too good to be true, and it ends up being a trap by
this, uh, this alien who is scarred by his experiences with the Borg.
And he's here to punish and take revenge on not just Seven, but the
crew of Voyager who, uh, who allied with the Borg against Species 8472, um,
allowed the Borg to continue to thrive in the Delta Quadrant and led to the,
the, um, conquest of his home world.
So yeah, all of this to say this is a Janeway/Seven relationship episode where
throughout it they are butting heads.
And Seven is experiencing fear about the prospect of returning to the Alpha
Quadrant and having to live among the Federation being looked at as a Borg
drone by all of these, these strangers.
And Janeway is meanwhile trying to figure out how she, you know,
can she trust, uh, Seven or not.
And, and, you know, it's, it's one of those good ones.
Um.
Yeah, I, I think it's a good standalone Voyager episode that very much goes
to the, the premise of the show.
And, uh, this game of velocity, which I, I believe Kim, Harry Kim
says he was a champion of multiple times at Starfleet Academy.
Rob: I do think I remember, yeah
Kevin: phaser based game where it's one-on-one, or at least it is in
this, uh, episode and a holographic target appears hovering in the air.
It's this little saucer with a ring of color around it.
And the players shoot the target, and if you shoot it, it flips so that it is your
color, and then you can shoot it again.
And if you send the, the target flying into the body of your opponent while
it has your color, you win a point.
That's what I can, that's what I can learn from this episode.
The, the computer is saying point Janeway, full contact, point Seven, like so
it's explaining what's going on as it's
Rob: So hit it, your color, and then you hit it again hit the person.
Right.
Kevin: Yeah, yeah.
Or, or hit it once it turn your color and then hits the person.
Maybe you can do it in one, I'm not sure.
Rob: So do you see any of it like being acted out or you just,
Kevin: Oh yeah.
They're, they're, yeah, they're in, they're in outfits.
They're bouncing around the holo, uh, suite,
Rob: a, is it just a blank holo…?
Kevin: It's a bare hologrid that they're playing
Rob: So no levels going and
Kevin: No, no.
Levels going up and down.
Yeah.
The only holographic element seems to be the flying target.
Rob: Okay, so no fear of a, of a, um, a, a prepubescent child getting
concussion the point of brain death.
Kevin: Yeah, no, they're jumping off the walls and, and and rolling on the
floor and, and, you know, coming outta the roll and shooting the target.
That, sort of stuff.
Yeah.
Velocity.
Rob: Well, there you go.
Good discovery there.
Out of all these games, Kevin Yank, which one would you like to play?
I think that's a question that we should be asking ourselves after a
full episode, discussing future sports, which one would you consider to,
that, you could have be a dab hand at?
Kevin: Uh, look.
Velocity looks like fun.
I don't know if I have the physique for it, but, uh, think back to, um, an early
episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation where Picard and Riker are playing are
shooting targets in the phaser range,
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: Velocity feels like that, but active as a sport and,
Rob: that like episode two or
Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Very early on.
Yeah.
It's probably episode two.
Um, and yeah, I, I like velocity, I think.
I don't know if it would actually work in practice, but the idea that
you could shoot this floating target, uh, with enough accuracy to determine
where it goes flying and to hit your opponent, that does sound fun to try.
Rob: A lot, that's a lot of mathematical angles.
And does it ricochet off walls and stuff like that Anyway,
Kevin: I don't fact that it's a one-on-one sport says something about me.
Maybe I, like Caleb, am skeptical of organized team sports.
Rob: Yeah, you're more of a tennis man.
Or golf?
Um, yeah, like I said, I think I, I, I, watching springball, I'm
there going, this makes sense to me.
Okay.
I was, I was watching, uh, phaser fights and teleportation.
I'm going, um, I'm okay, this is a stretching.
I'm there going, okay.
I can, until she caught the ball and everyone cheered.
I was there going, okay, I get this.
I'm going, well, what the hell does that mean?
Okay.
I need explained.
Um.
And all the flashing lights was really appealing to me.
'cause I've just said, oh, I get a point.
There's a flashing light.
Kevin: was searching for springball, I saw a couple of eBay auctions for prop,
uh, springball rule and scorecards that were made for this episode as props.
I don't, I don't see them anywhere in the episode, but apparently the audience was
given these little cards that have, uh.
You know, fake rules and, and, and a scorecard grid.
And it says Springball across the top.
Rob: Was it in English or Bajoran?
Kevin: I think it's English, but maybe there's some Bajor
script under it as well.
Rob: That would be good to know, so when I start
Kevin: up my league
Rob: of uh, uh, middle aged Star Trek fans working up a sweat, but I just
wanna, I guess it's just the, the actor in me, I wanna do that moment
where I win a point and then take off my mask or, catch the, oh yeah.
And I can do the breath out or I catch the ball and I just
want everyone to cheer and we
Kevin: I don't know if just old and cynical, but every time an actor
like pulls off their mask like that, it, it to me goes, oh, up until
this point it was a stunt person.
Rob: No, that's not cynical.
That's reality.
been watching, you've been watching a lot of media.
You know, when they're, they're doing, they're putting on masks.
So the actor goes, I'm out.
I can just this.
I.
Kevin: I'll be, I'll be in my trailer.
Rob: It's like a interview with, um, they had Ben Affleck interviewing Matt
Damon recently 'cause they're doing big press for their latest Netflix show.
And um, Affleck was talking to Matt Damon about doing stunts
and all that type of stuff.
And he goes, man, no, I'm the anti Tom Cruise where Tom
Cruise does all his stunts.
They go, if I've got someone, if I, if someone's being paid to
do stunts, I'll let 'em do it.
He goes, but Bourne Identity that jump over there goes, that's another guy.
Kevin: I didn't read those pages in the script.
Rob: Didn't need to do it.
I'm sitting back there in my trailer.
Um, so yes, if you got the opportunity, but with my league,
there are no stunt doubles.
Okay.
You'll be taking, you'll be wearing that mask and catching that ball and
getting that cheer for whatever reason.
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: No stunt double to fill that role.
Kevin: All right.
Well, thank you Rob.
It was fun to talk sports with you.
I know we are such big sports fans that it's hard to hold ourselves back most of
the time, but this one episode we let out our true, our true sportsmen tendencies.
Rob: And look, and we're even saving, uh, for a future episode where we
talk about real sports in the future because I, I, I like that you went,
let's just talk on future sports this episode, so we can save our, our talk
of raquetball, our talk of water polo.
Any other mention of a sport that's been brought up.
We did a little bit of a hint with, uh, basketball, but, oh,
just wait till we go even further.
Kevin: Yeah, that whole episode of Voyager, uh, that's a
boxing match with Chakotay.
Rob: Yes.
Is that or, or the one with, is that the one with The Rock?
Kevin: No, no, that one, that one is, uh, that one's another one as well.
That's with
Rob: And that's with Seven of Nine going against The Rock.
Yeah, with the bumps on his forehead.
Um, well look, thank you for, for being so restrained over the last couple of years.
Three years we've been doing this,
Kevin: Yeah, indeed.
Rob: Oh my
Kevin: keep new Star Trek.
Rob: They keep on doing it and we keep on wanting to talk about it.
Well, we'll see how we go with more, you know, new Star Trek after this season.
Um, but uh, yeah, thank you for holding back your sports up until now.
Your sports love.
And we'll put it back in the, back in the box until the future episode
where we can bring it out again.
Kevin: All right, well thank you, Rob, and until next week,
I'll see you around the galaxy.
Rob: Cannot wait.