WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:01.480 Sam: Last night. 00:00:01.480 --> 00:00:03.690 The podcast saved my life. 00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:04.980 As the song goes. 00:00:05.980 --> 00:00:09.729 Well, not my life on this occasion, but just a bit of insomnia. 00:00:10.600 --> 00:00:13.360 Um, pods have been there for the old insomnia, many times. 00:00:14.360 --> 00:00:17.120 And so I'd like to thank the medium of podcasting. 00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:18.570 For that. 00:00:19.410 --> 00:00:22.800 For carrying me through some, helping me through some difficult times. 00:00:22.830 --> 00:00:24.930 Uh, helping me to connect to things that. 00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:26.670 I needed to learn. 00:00:27.210 --> 00:00:27.960 Or realize. 00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:31.030 And really just connecting me to other people. 00:00:31.720 --> 00:00:33.130 And to life itself. 00:00:34.130 --> 00:00:34.490 And. 00:00:35.489 --> 00:00:37.889 It's not an exaggeration. 00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:39.330 To say. 00:00:39.959 --> 00:00:40.469 Therefore. 00:00:41.469 --> 00:00:43.659 That I might not be here today. 00:00:44.659 --> 00:00:46.399 If it wasn't for this medium. 00:00:47.399 --> 00:00:48.659 My mother used to listen to. 00:00:48.989 --> 00:00:53.409 The radio a lot, particularly when she was, you know, Going through it. 00:00:54.009 --> 00:00:56.559 But just all the time, you know, in the car at home. 00:00:56.919 --> 00:00:57.309 Doing. 00:00:58.309 --> 00:01:00.349 The house work, which he had a lot of. 00:01:01.349 --> 00:01:04.259 And I also listened to it during the housework walking. 00:01:05.259 --> 00:01:05.679 And. 00:01:06.679 --> 00:01:08.929 Just at those times when I need to relax. 00:01:09.929 --> 00:01:10.439 Connect. 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:13.869 I was listening to so many pods at one point that I actually had to. 00:01:14.869 --> 00:01:17.689 Scale it back and realize that it was actually a getting 00:01:17.689 --> 00:01:18.799 in the way of connecting. 00:01:19.399 --> 00:01:22.279 And I was filling myself with other people's thoughts and I 00:01:22.279 --> 00:01:23.899 actually needed to listen to my own. 00:01:24.899 --> 00:01:27.299 But there is definitely a happy medium and it's somewhere around 00:01:27.299 --> 00:01:29.309 15 to maybe 20 hours a week. 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:30.479 Maybe more. 00:01:31.479 --> 00:01:34.599 It's certainly it's 10 to one on screens or shows. 00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:37.459 Because, you can keep your hands free while you listen. 00:01:37.489 --> 00:01:37.639 And. 00:01:37.969 --> 00:01:38.929 You can get things done. 00:01:39.929 --> 00:01:42.089 And in the middle of the night, you don't want to be putting the screen on, 00:01:42.089 --> 00:01:43.319 do you want to just listen to something? 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:45.699 Stories around the campfire. 00:01:46.699 --> 00:01:47.989 So I wanted to thank some of those. 00:01:48.859 --> 00:01:50.329 Shows those presenters that. 00:01:51.329 --> 00:01:51.899 Were there. 00:01:52.899 --> 00:01:53.979 Whether they knew it or not. 00:01:54.939 --> 00:01:58.239 W they were there for people in a very important way. 00:01:58.899 --> 00:02:00.669 And of course they did know that. 00:02:01.209 --> 00:02:02.739 It was one of the reasons they were going. 00:02:03.739 --> 00:02:05.239 That's one of the reasons they kept going. 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:06.929 And that's why. 00:02:07.679 --> 00:02:10.109 Adam Curry, the inventor of podcasting among others. 00:02:10.679 --> 00:02:13.469 Calls his listeners produces because. 00:02:14.189 --> 00:02:15.149 In a very real way. 00:02:15.659 --> 00:02:19.529 They help to ensure that a show gets out and continues to get out. 00:02:20.009 --> 00:02:20.519 Because. 00:02:21.299 --> 00:02:22.409 That's what a producer does. 00:02:23.409 --> 00:02:25.449 So just by listening, you helped to produce it. 00:02:26.049 --> 00:02:27.069 Knowing that someone. 00:02:28.069 --> 00:02:30.139 Is hoping that this drops on Wednesday morning. 00:02:31.139 --> 00:02:33.209 So they can walk the dog or whatever. 00:02:34.109 --> 00:02:36.509 That helps give me reasons to make sure that. 00:02:36.929 --> 00:02:39.419 You know, this happens that I, that I get it done. 00:02:40.419 --> 00:02:42.099 And of course, Joe and Allie are not here. 00:02:42.609 --> 00:02:43.599 Uh, because we. 00:02:44.589 --> 00:02:47.829 Didn't get one done this weekend, too many things going on. 00:02:48.309 --> 00:02:50.139 So I thought I'd just do a little special solo. 00:02:51.139 --> 00:02:54.199 And read some notes from listeners. 00:02:54.499 --> 00:02:55.819 Thank Al producers. 00:02:55.819 --> 00:02:56.449 In other words, 00:02:57.449 --> 00:02:58.289 An essential. 00:02:59.009 --> 00:02:59.399 Job. 00:03:00.399 --> 00:03:04.420 So one of the many ways that listeners help is not just by listening, but also 00:03:04.570 --> 00:03:06.309 advocating for their favorite shows. 00:03:07.059 --> 00:03:08.230 Telling people about them. 00:03:09.230 --> 00:03:11.510 Advocating for the medium itself. 00:03:12.049 --> 00:03:12.469 And. 00:03:13.429 --> 00:03:18.920 In some cases sending in helpful notes criticism, sometimes well-earned usually. 00:03:19.760 --> 00:03:23.719 In fact, I don't think I've ever seen any feedback that was not fair in some way. 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:26.279 And the critical notes. 00:03:26.369 --> 00:03:28.289 Uh, probably more important, really. 00:03:29.289 --> 00:03:29.859 Because. 00:03:30.579 --> 00:03:33.130 To make a criticism shows that you care. 00:03:33.880 --> 00:03:34.719 One way or the other. 00:03:35.719 --> 00:03:37.039 And to offer praise also. 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:40.829 So I wanted to highlight some of those contributions. 00:03:41.829 --> 00:03:43.720 And on the theme of gratitude today. 00:03:44.720 --> 00:03:47.570 Which is something that I think I need right now. 00:03:47.570 --> 00:03:47.869 And I. 00:03:48.619 --> 00:03:49.910 I know a lot of you do too. 00:03:50.910 --> 00:03:53.310 So here's a simple bit of feedback. 00:03:53.820 --> 00:03:55.170 I'm listening to your podcast. 00:03:55.440 --> 00:03:56.670 The other two were louder than you. 00:03:56.670 --> 00:03:59.040 And it sounds like you have to fight for your chance to speak. 00:03:59.430 --> 00:04:00.570 So that was sent to Joe. 00:04:01.570 --> 00:04:03.740 And, you know, That person. 00:04:04.430 --> 00:04:06.200 Became a producer that day because. 00:04:07.040 --> 00:04:09.109 I took that on board and I really thought about it. 00:04:09.109 --> 00:04:10.640 The next time we recorded. 00:04:11.640 --> 00:04:12.870 And I think it made a difference. 00:04:13.870 --> 00:04:14.950 So that's worth mentioning. 00:04:15.950 --> 00:04:17.090 Shout out to that person. 00:04:18.090 --> 00:04:20.610 And here's one from someone who's been listening for a long time. 00:04:21.610 --> 00:04:22.270 That was good. 00:04:22.330 --> 00:04:25.390 The analogy of thoughts as clouds passing in the sky is great. 00:04:25.960 --> 00:04:28.300 My son struggles with anxiety and fixation. 00:04:29.050 --> 00:04:32.530 I think that's a good, simple way to emphasize thoughts, come and go. 00:04:33.530 --> 00:04:36.620 If I'm being snarky and cynical attachment theory feels like 00:04:36.620 --> 00:04:37.940 adding academic language to. 00:04:38.780 --> 00:04:40.460 Some people are clingy heads. 00:04:40.520 --> 00:04:41.659 Some people are loners. 00:04:42.650 --> 00:04:46.490 But I get it's way more complicated and understanding why you make the decisions 00:04:46.490 --> 00:04:48.349 you do helps you be a better human. 00:04:49.349 --> 00:04:50.549 Well, that's a pretty. 00:04:51.549 --> 00:04:54.340 That's a pretty good summary of what attachment theory can offer. 00:04:54.819 --> 00:04:56.890 To us and what it's done for me. 00:04:57.580 --> 00:04:59.049 Understanding why you do things is. 00:04:59.739 --> 00:05:00.309 Essential. 00:05:01.309 --> 00:05:02.749 And I've probably said it before, but. 00:05:03.739 --> 00:05:06.229 Humans are a mystery to themselves and to each other. 00:05:06.619 --> 00:05:08.389 Unless we make the effort to understand. 00:05:08.989 --> 00:05:11.089 And even then it's not a perfect thing. 00:05:11.179 --> 00:05:11.659 Of course. 00:05:12.109 --> 00:05:14.119 Even with the greatest effort and the greatest intention. 00:05:15.119 --> 00:05:17.999 And these theories are just that they're just theories. 00:05:18.999 --> 00:05:20.169 Some are more or less. 00:05:21.169 --> 00:05:25.460 Proven or illustrated by evidence and some are just ideas. 00:05:26.460 --> 00:05:27.330 One of my favorites. 00:05:27.689 --> 00:05:30.960 Erik Erikson's seven stages of psychosocial development. 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:33.460 Not backed by. 00:05:34.060 --> 00:05:36.280 Clinical studies, it doesn't need to be. 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:38.840 It's a useful idea, nonetheless. 00:05:38.840 --> 00:05:40.370 Uh, attachment theory. 00:05:40.370 --> 00:05:41.810 However, it does have a fair bit of. 00:05:42.420 --> 00:05:43.200 Evidence to it. 00:05:44.200 --> 00:05:46.480 But none of that is especially. 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:52.010 Useful or decisive one way or the other, unless the, theory is grappled with. 00:05:52.310 --> 00:05:56.120 Very carefully and seriously by the people that are interested 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:57.260 in getting something from it. 00:05:57.950 --> 00:05:59.540 And we shouldn't be looking just for. 00:06:00.080 --> 00:06:02.510 Confirmation of what we want confirmed and. 00:06:03.510 --> 00:06:06.720 Things that comfort and Sue this, we should be looking for 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:08.520 those more difficult insights. 00:06:09.520 --> 00:06:12.760 The things we don't want to say to ourselves or to others. 00:06:13.760 --> 00:06:16.250 And I've heard a lot of that good stuff being said on pods. 00:06:17.250 --> 00:06:17.849 Because. 00:06:18.849 --> 00:06:20.679 It's a medium, unlike any other. 00:06:21.679 --> 00:06:23.299 What is a podcast it's just. 00:06:24.299 --> 00:06:25.229 An audio file. 00:06:25.229 --> 00:06:27.179 Connected to a text file. 00:06:28.179 --> 00:06:33.089 Called an RSS feed, and that file just says, here's the name of the show? 00:06:33.089 --> 00:06:34.589 Here's the name of the episode? 00:06:35.249 --> 00:06:37.169 Here's a description of the episode. 00:06:37.709 --> 00:06:40.129 The people that appear on it, et cetera, you know, metadata. 00:06:40.819 --> 00:06:42.019 And then it points to a file. 00:06:42.919 --> 00:06:44.929 And then you can listen to that file anywhere. 00:06:45.929 --> 00:06:46.709 On a browser. 00:06:47.159 --> 00:06:47.639 In an app. 00:06:48.419 --> 00:06:49.649 iTunes back in the day. 00:06:50.649 --> 00:06:52.389 It means it's open it. 00:06:52.389 --> 00:06:56.589 Can't be controlled and centralized by technology platforms. 00:06:57.639 --> 00:07:00.459 YouTube, which controls all the video and Spotify, which is 00:07:00.459 --> 00:07:02.649 attempting to control all of audio. 00:07:02.649 --> 00:07:05.889 In the early days of RSS, really simple syndication. 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:08.349 You may remember blogs, they're still around. 00:07:09.349 --> 00:07:10.759 And people would catch them. 00:07:11.119 --> 00:07:12.229 In blog readers. 00:07:12.929 --> 00:07:14.189 A very popular blog reader. 00:07:14.529 --> 00:07:15.519 Was Google reader. 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:18.259 Google started offering free hosting. 00:07:18.799 --> 00:07:19.939 For blogs. 00:07:20.939 --> 00:07:22.169 And there. 00:07:22.469 --> 00:07:24.329 Reader and their hosting became very popular. 00:07:24.329 --> 00:07:25.979 And then one day they went, yeah, we're done. 00:07:26.789 --> 00:07:28.829 With maintaining this product, we don't care about it. 00:07:29.829 --> 00:07:34.639 And it killed off blogging as an open decentralized. 00:07:35.389 --> 00:07:35.840 Medium 00:07:36.840 --> 00:07:40.020 audio over RSS nearly went the same way, but. 00:07:40.890 --> 00:07:43.470 I came along a couple of years after blogging and it didn't 00:07:43.470 --> 00:07:45.150 quite get taken over by anybody. 00:07:45.870 --> 00:07:49.600 Apple put the apple podcasts app on every iPhone they sold and. 00:07:50.600 --> 00:07:54.020 This ended up saving the medium in a roundabout way and apple, continue 00:07:54.020 --> 00:07:56.420 to maintain that app, even though it doesn't make them any money, it's pretty 00:07:56.420 --> 00:07:58.220 much the last cool thing that they do. 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:00.480 Just cause it's a good thing to do. 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:01.930 And. 00:08:02.930 --> 00:08:05.870 I really want to emphasize this point that there's something about just being 00:08:05.870 --> 00:08:07.670 able to stick an audio file on a server. 00:08:08.420 --> 00:08:09.140 And point to it. 00:08:10.140 --> 00:08:11.550 In a text file and say here. 00:08:12.060 --> 00:08:14.160 Come and grab it on whatever thing you want to listen. 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:16.870 That we don't all get corralled. 00:08:17.870 --> 00:08:20.300 Into technology platforms, driven by algorithms. 00:08:20.300 --> 00:08:20.990 And instead. 00:08:21.650 --> 00:08:23.510 Everything that appears in my pod catcher. 00:08:24.260 --> 00:08:25.070 On my phone. 00:08:25.580 --> 00:08:27.620 Is what I asked to be there. 00:08:28.280 --> 00:08:29.990 Nothing appears that I didn't ask for. 00:08:30.990 --> 00:08:33.510 So an app I'd like to recommend podcast guru. 00:08:34.170 --> 00:08:35.340 It's got some great features. 00:08:35.400 --> 00:08:36.030 Give it a shot. 00:08:36.180 --> 00:08:38.850 It's available on both your major phone kinds. 00:08:39.850 --> 00:08:41.380 Anyway, back to. 00:08:42.380 --> 00:08:43.370 The producers. 00:08:44.380 --> 00:08:45.640 This is another one from a. 00:08:46.640 --> 00:08:47.600 Uh, recent times. 00:08:47.900 --> 00:08:50.750 I just know for myself, I had real battles with my anxious attachment 00:08:50.750 --> 00:08:52.220 style when it came to dating to. 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:56.780 And I found the more energy I poured into things that used to bring me so much joy. 00:08:57.410 --> 00:08:59.450 Writing music, dancing, baseball. 00:08:59.960 --> 00:09:03.050 The more, I was able to create safety and fulfillment for myself. 00:09:03.470 --> 00:09:06.410 Like Sam was saying on the podcast and the less I had to rely on 00:09:06.410 --> 00:09:08.030 romantic connections for that high. 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:09.410 It took time. 00:09:09.410 --> 00:09:13.520 But my experience has been that eventually the passions I've nurtured for myself. 00:09:13.970 --> 00:09:15.590 I've taken the place of that. 00:09:16.130 --> 00:09:16.670 Anxious. 00:09:16.940 --> 00:09:20.780 In my case, desperate search for a positive kick from another person. 00:09:21.780 --> 00:09:24.990 So if that's not an affirmation of why. 00:09:25.770 --> 00:09:27.450 You know, it's worth doing the work. 00:09:27.450 --> 00:09:28.290 I don't know what is. 00:09:29.290 --> 00:09:30.220 So really it's not. 00:09:31.220 --> 00:09:32.540 You know, like the old media. 00:09:33.540 --> 00:09:36.300 You know, you hit print and it goes out to millions of people. 00:09:37.290 --> 00:09:40.020 You know, you turn on the mic and you broadcast from a powerful 00:09:40.020 --> 00:09:42.090 antenna and people receive it. 00:09:43.090 --> 00:09:45.550 But there's not necessarily a way to talk back. 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:49.420 But of course the invention of talkback was essential to the survival of radio. 00:09:50.420 --> 00:09:54.140 Calling into request a favorite song or just to talk to a presenter. 00:09:55.040 --> 00:09:58.070 This sustained many, many people in difficult times. 00:09:59.030 --> 00:10:01.100 Now radio is. 00:10:02.100 --> 00:10:02.339 In. 00:10:02.640 --> 00:10:05.280 Quite a lot of trouble commercially, and it's groaning 00:10:05.310 --> 00:10:07.020 under the weight of advertising. 00:10:07.620 --> 00:10:10.290 And when you look at the digital media landscape in general. 00:10:11.010 --> 00:10:11.459 It's. 00:10:12.030 --> 00:10:13.949 Either locked up in a platform. 00:10:14.949 --> 00:10:16.779 Or it's groaning under display ads. 00:10:17.779 --> 00:10:19.309 Trackers and all this sort of stuff. 00:10:20.309 --> 00:10:21.059 Podcasting. 00:10:21.629 --> 00:10:25.889 Audio over RSS is one of the few remaining mediums that has not. 00:10:26.429 --> 00:10:27.299 Gone that way. 00:10:28.299 --> 00:10:28.719 So. 00:10:29.719 --> 00:10:33.349 It allows things like this to thrive and to exist. 00:10:34.099 --> 00:10:35.629 Because it's relatively cheap. 00:10:36.409 --> 00:10:39.799 And as I say, decentralized, And. 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:42.239 It enables a kind of. 00:10:43.169 --> 00:10:44.759 More authentic connection. 00:10:45.209 --> 00:10:49.529 Because you're not trying to juice an algorithm because this medium 00:10:49.529 --> 00:10:51.329 hasn't been algorithm of fired yet. 00:10:51.959 --> 00:10:53.519 There's no way to game it. 00:10:54.269 --> 00:10:57.779 You just have to make good stuff and then hope that people will find 00:10:57.779 --> 00:10:58.949 it, or you tell people about it. 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:00.989 And then they might tell other people about it. 00:11:01.139 --> 00:11:02.459 It's old school in that way. 00:11:03.449 --> 00:11:06.569 One of the things that's missing though, is an easy way for people to reach out. 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:10.019 So I have been thinking we maybe just need to get like a. 00:11:11.019 --> 00:11:15.369 Just a phone number that people can text or call that might be fun. 00:11:16.379 --> 00:11:20.719 And of course people are still sending messages to Joe and Allie, a fair bit. 00:11:21.049 --> 00:11:22.159 And occasionally me. 00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:23.759 Here's another one. 00:11:24.269 --> 00:11:24.719 Not bad. 00:11:24.719 --> 00:11:27.929 I usually hate podcasts to be honest, but there were lots of good points made. 00:11:27.929 --> 00:11:29.099 Many of which I agreed with. 00:11:29.129 --> 00:11:29.759 Nice work. 00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:31.089 Great. 00:11:32.089 --> 00:11:33.229 I listened to your podcast. 00:11:33.229 --> 00:11:34.669 I did the attachment style test. 00:11:34.969 --> 00:11:36.169 Apparently I am avoidant. 00:11:36.379 --> 00:11:37.819 I would've said anxious, but there you go. 00:11:38.819 --> 00:11:40.619 It's hard to answer when not in a relationship. 00:11:40.649 --> 00:11:42.959 I'm sure it switches to secure with the right person, but 00:11:42.959 --> 00:11:44.159 not immediately, I guess. 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:45.879 Thank you. 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:48.859 And here's one from a very long time listener. 00:11:49.189 --> 00:11:50.509 Pretty much from the beginning. 00:11:51.509 --> 00:11:54.449 I found some of the conversation quite confronting as it was a real reminder 00:11:54.449 --> 00:11:57.929 of how much work I have to do still to develop a secure attachment style. 00:11:58.559 --> 00:11:59.909 That was kind of a downer for me. 00:12:00.479 --> 00:12:03.029 But what I want to give more thought to is the notion that was 00:12:03.059 --> 00:12:06.689 touched on by the topic of you are capable of secure attachment. 00:12:07.689 --> 00:12:10.599 I'd like to further explore, develop the idea of a secure attachment 00:12:10.599 --> 00:12:14.109 relationship with myself, because I'm not sure I can do adequate 00:12:14.109 --> 00:12:18.129 vulnerability to create secure attachment with another, without it actually. 00:12:18.969 --> 00:12:22.359 Well, maybe digging further into my own stuff is just another avoidance tactic. 00:12:23.359 --> 00:12:25.249 Yeah, well, it's interesting. 00:12:25.459 --> 00:12:27.409 Anyway, short story really enjoyed it. 00:12:27.439 --> 00:12:29.419 Glad to hear you are back to weekly Epps. 00:12:29.569 --> 00:12:29.989 Ooh. 00:12:30.019 --> 00:12:30.589 Yes. 00:12:30.619 --> 00:12:31.309 Little bit of. 00:12:31.819 --> 00:12:32.269 A little bit of a. 00:12:33.269 --> 00:12:34.709 Key piece of encouragement there. 00:12:34.709 --> 00:12:35.309 Thank you. 00:12:36.359 --> 00:12:38.459 You'll notice, I'm not mentioning everybody's names. 00:12:38.699 --> 00:12:41.759 Some of it's quite personal, but you know, you know who you are. 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:44.229 So I did have a thought about this. 00:12:44.679 --> 00:12:48.099 Maybe digging further into my own stuff is just another avoidance tactics. 00:12:48.969 --> 00:12:49.179 Yeah. 00:12:49.329 --> 00:12:49.509 Yeah. 00:12:49.689 --> 00:12:49.929 Yeah. 00:12:50.289 --> 00:12:52.179 Perhaps, I think there's some wisdom there. 00:12:52.869 --> 00:12:53.859 It's certainly a danger. 00:12:54.859 --> 00:12:56.599 And, you know, Taking. 00:12:57.439 --> 00:13:00.589 Taking quizzes and taking on new theories and inventorying yourself. 00:13:01.129 --> 00:13:01.999 Yeah, it can be. 00:13:02.689 --> 00:13:06.709 A fun hobby and diversion, and God knows, I like to navel gaze. 00:13:07.709 --> 00:13:08.279 But I don't. 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:10.809 I don't think it's an enormous danger of. 00:13:11.109 --> 00:13:12.729 Th this level of reflection. 00:13:13.629 --> 00:13:15.219 You know is part of your. 00:13:16.149 --> 00:13:17.109 Daily life. 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:20.799 I think you're very much already on that path where you can. 00:13:21.799 --> 00:13:22.639 Take this. 00:13:22.849 --> 00:13:27.229 You know, new knowledge and add to it and develop it usefully for yourself. 00:13:28.229 --> 00:13:30.899 You know, with the attachment theory stuff, it's really important to. 00:13:31.649 --> 00:13:32.369 Get beyond. 00:13:33.369 --> 00:13:35.709 Uh, sort of going, oh, in here is the answer. 00:13:36.249 --> 00:13:38.919 What it's more about is I'm going to make. 00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:40.989 I'm going to figure out the answers. 00:13:41.409 --> 00:13:43.389 Myself using this theory. 00:13:44.389 --> 00:13:44.929 And very. 00:13:45.929 --> 00:13:48.959 That if that process is done the right way, that it steers us away 00:13:48.959 --> 00:13:52.769 from that sense of victim hood and towards that sense of agency. 00:13:53.769 --> 00:13:55.539 , one of the things I mentioned in that F is that. 00:13:56.539 --> 00:13:57.199 The theory. 00:13:57.919 --> 00:14:01.609 Had been seized on by many people with anxious attachment as a, 00:14:02.209 --> 00:14:03.769 as a way of explaining the pain. 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:05.119 Anxiety. 00:14:05.119 --> 00:14:06.589 They were experiencing in relationships. 00:14:07.189 --> 00:14:08.959 And that's really, that's really good. 00:14:09.769 --> 00:14:11.389 But it also became a way of saying. 00:14:11.959 --> 00:14:14.089 You know, These avoidant types. 00:14:14.149 --> 00:14:15.739 Uh , bad people and. 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:17.209 It's their fault. 00:14:17.989 --> 00:14:20.449 That you know, they're making me the anxious type, but, you 00:14:20.479 --> 00:14:21.829 know, being the avoidant type. 00:14:22.369 --> 00:14:23.329 Oh, well, and yeah, sure. 00:14:23.329 --> 00:14:24.619 There's a little bit of dynamic there. 00:14:25.619 --> 00:14:26.729 But, but ultimately. 00:14:27.729 --> 00:14:30.879 That style pre-existed those romantic relationships, you 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:31.899 know, that's the key point. 00:14:32.899 --> 00:14:34.129 And so working through that. 00:14:34.849 --> 00:14:36.949 As honestly, as we can is the key. 00:14:37.949 --> 00:14:38.279 And look. 00:14:39.059 --> 00:14:40.499 I've just indulged me here. 00:14:40.619 --> 00:14:41.279 Forgive me. 00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:43.869 You know, don't shoot the messenger. 00:14:44.109 --> 00:14:46.389 I'm just reporting what other people have said. 00:14:47.389 --> 00:14:48.589 I thought you were all brilliant. 00:14:49.339 --> 00:14:50.779 But just saying Sam really? 00:14:50.779 --> 00:14:51.109 Sean. 00:14:51.949 --> 00:14:52.039 Yeah. 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:55.709 And I wrote back, yes, he had really done his research. 00:14:55.739 --> 00:14:58.859 Plus he dug deep on the personal side, plus he could see how it works outside 00:14:58.859 --> 00:15:02.249 of romantic relationships and understood, understand the childhood stuff. 00:15:03.249 --> 00:15:05.109 Well, that's a very nice compliment from Joe. 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:10.209 He's an essential element of getting this whole thing going of just 00:15:10.509 --> 00:15:11.769 really saying great idea, Sam. 00:15:11.769 --> 00:15:14.229 So when, how let's go, go, go, go. 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:15.579 And. 00:15:16.449 --> 00:15:18.279 You know, he's all the way through. 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:21.759 Had this, , obsessive drive towards it. 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:24.319 Which has really helped spur me along. 00:15:25.319 --> 00:15:25.739 And. 00:15:26.789 --> 00:15:29.459 You know, he's been so good at just giving me just. 00:15:30.089 --> 00:15:32.009 Flat honest. 00:15:32.099 --> 00:15:35.699 Um, Feedback along the way, which has been so valuable. 00:15:36.689 --> 00:15:41.459 And then this person writes back the dynamic attachment question mark, 00:15:41.459 --> 00:15:43.079 between the three of you is very healthy. 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:45.599 Funny, they both called you a C bomb. 00:15:46.589 --> 00:15:46.709 Yeah. 00:15:47.219 --> 00:15:49.769 Well, I'm glad we all think it's funny. 00:15:50.769 --> 00:15:51.399 Okay. 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:53.989 Looking for the next one. 00:15:54.989 --> 00:15:58.319 Someone wrote in and suggested this for a blurb for the show. 00:15:59.319 --> 00:16:02.289 An alcoholic communist and a nutcase walk into a podcast. 00:16:02.889 --> 00:16:03.699 I thought that was good. 00:16:04.699 --> 00:16:06.499 In other news, I listened to your podcast a lot. 00:16:06.589 --> 00:16:07.939 The three of you have a great dynamic. 00:16:08.359 --> 00:16:10.489 You know how you guys kind of struggle with your preamble? 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:11.119 Like it's good. 00:16:11.119 --> 00:16:14.659 It's a solid foundation, but what you talk about it kind of, it's kind of 00:16:14.689 --> 00:16:16.339 more down to earth than the opening. 00:16:17.029 --> 00:16:19.789 Which distinguishes reality from the things we experienced. 00:16:19.789 --> 00:16:22.609 That's a big philosophical leap for people to take over their morning. 00:16:22.609 --> 00:16:23.119 Croissant. 00:16:24.119 --> 00:16:26.039 And I keep bouncing this idea around in my head. 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:28.619 It doesn't work, but it might work with the right words. 00:16:28.619 --> 00:16:30.839 Don't be offended at this unsolicited comment. 00:16:31.839 --> 00:16:32.319 I love you. 00:16:32.319 --> 00:16:32.919 He goes. 00:16:33.489 --> 00:16:36.069 An alcoholic communist and a nutcase walk into a podcast. 00:16:36.609 --> 00:16:37.509 Yeah, I like it. 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:42.309 I said immediately, well, Can I be a nutcase and a communist 00:16:42.489 --> 00:16:43.899 and half an alcoholic, you know? 00:16:44.949 --> 00:16:46.389 , Podcasts were there when a. 00:16:46.989 --> 00:16:48.579 The booze was a big problem. 00:16:48.939 --> 00:16:53.979 And it was one of those things that, you know, Help me find a way into like 00:16:54.099 --> 00:16:56.199 other places and other ways of coping. 00:16:57.199 --> 00:17:00.259 And then eventually, you know, Making a show really was just 00:17:00.259 --> 00:17:01.519 an extension of listening. 00:17:01.849 --> 00:17:03.349 And I would encourage everyone out there. 00:17:03.739 --> 00:17:06.199 If the thought about switching on a Mike. 00:17:06.679 --> 00:17:08.269 Um, Please do. 00:17:09.259 --> 00:17:11.599 And, you know, if you want to reach out for any advice 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:13.249 or help with that, please do. 00:17:14.059 --> 00:17:14.659 I will. 00:17:15.049 --> 00:17:15.919 Literally. 00:17:16.919 --> 00:17:21.179 Give you any encouragement or advice coaching prodding, you need. 00:17:21.779 --> 00:17:23.489 To get you going and keep you going. 00:17:24.489 --> 00:17:26.829 I guarantee you you've got something worth sharing. 00:17:27.699 --> 00:17:28.629 And not only that. 00:17:28.999 --> 00:17:30.439 I'm willing to. 00:17:31.369 --> 00:17:33.079 Host the host your. 00:17:33.349 --> 00:17:34.519 Your whole files for you? 00:17:34.649 --> 00:17:38.639 I've got unlimited hosting that I paid, you know, 20 us a month for. 00:17:39.300 --> 00:17:42.719 And it would actually, it's not the first time. 00:17:43.530 --> 00:17:45.030 That I'd be very happy. 00:17:45.719 --> 00:17:49.169 To create a feed and host your stuff for you. 00:17:49.169 --> 00:17:53.219 And, you know, you can have a little email log in and upload it and stuff yourself. 00:17:53.219 --> 00:17:53.370 And. 00:17:54.149 --> 00:17:55.439 You know, it can become part of a. 00:17:56.219 --> 00:17:57.419 You know, a network of. 00:17:58.139 --> 00:17:59.040 People that are. 00:17:59.639 --> 00:18:02.489 Yeah, helping each other do cool stuff in this medium. 00:18:03.490 --> 00:18:04.870 That's something I'm happy to help with. 00:18:05.870 --> 00:18:06.470 Okay. 00:18:06.470 --> 00:18:07.550 You're just looking for more. 00:18:07.790 --> 00:18:09.680 There's a lot of, there's a lot of stuff. 00:18:10.580 --> 00:18:11.389 Okay. 00:18:11.510 --> 00:18:13.220 Here's another one from longtime listener. 00:18:14.220 --> 00:18:16.140 Listening to Jesus is my homie. 00:18:16.170 --> 00:18:18.770 It's pretty which is one of our most successful lips ever. 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:20.930 That's pretty captivating, listening to people. 00:18:20.930 --> 00:18:23.870 Talk about success and failure in their previous relationships. 00:18:24.410 --> 00:18:29.300 But I don't know if I should morally be captivated by it, or I like this. 00:18:29.330 --> 00:18:30.560 See, now this shows. 00:18:31.610 --> 00:18:32.690 This show is a good. 00:18:33.350 --> 00:18:34.520 You know, moral sense. 00:18:34.520 --> 00:18:36.860 This person is asking themselves the right questions. 00:18:37.860 --> 00:18:39.510 Like, is it voyeuristic? 00:18:39.690 --> 00:18:40.740 Well, maybe a little. 00:18:41.740 --> 00:18:43.210 You know, Not going to lie. 00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:45.100 I've enjoyed those times. 00:18:45.430 --> 00:18:49.090 You're listening to a show, which is ostensibly about history. 00:18:49.360 --> 00:18:51.880 For example, David Kraus, a history of England. 00:18:52.600 --> 00:18:53.890 He reveals little things. 00:18:54.100 --> 00:18:55.300 About his kids. 00:18:56.300 --> 00:18:56.900 And his life. 00:18:57.030 --> 00:18:58.320 I enjoy those little details. 00:18:58.930 --> 00:19:03.300 He's got this nice warm sense of humor and it's warm, but dry, hard to explain. 00:19:04.300 --> 00:19:06.160 He's a wonderful presenter. 00:19:06.280 --> 00:19:08.170 Highly recommend that show, even if you don't particularly 00:19:08.170 --> 00:19:09.130 care about the history of. 00:19:09.970 --> 00:19:10.450 England. 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:12.220 It's uh, it's just a great choice. 00:19:12.220 --> 00:19:13.060 It's very well done. 00:19:13.090 --> 00:19:13.930 It's very human. 00:19:14.870 --> 00:19:15.920 I wonderfully researched. 00:19:16.190 --> 00:19:16.490 But. 00:19:17.490 --> 00:19:20.580 David at one point became quite sick and. 00:19:21.150 --> 00:19:23.040 You know, I wasn't sure if he was gonna make it or not. 00:19:23.040 --> 00:19:24.690 And so yeah, it did. 00:19:25.170 --> 00:19:26.880 It felt like witnessing. 00:19:27.600 --> 00:19:31.380 Something quite intimately as a stranger, he didn't go into it very much, but 00:19:31.380 --> 00:19:33.090 you could hear the impact in his voice. 00:19:34.090 --> 00:19:34.840 Very pleased to say. 00:19:34.840 --> 00:19:36.670 He seems to be okay now. 00:19:37.670 --> 00:19:38.930 I'll continue with the text. 00:19:38.990 --> 00:19:41.660 Like, is it voyeuristic or is it a learning tool? 00:19:41.870 --> 00:19:43.310 How do you know where the line is? 00:19:43.880 --> 00:19:45.470 Is there even a line in reality. 00:19:46.470 --> 00:19:48.030 Trippy Friday morning, either way. 00:19:48.030 --> 00:19:48.870 I'm really enjoying it. 00:19:49.170 --> 00:19:52.020 That quote about drinking poison and hoping someone else gets sick. 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:55.290 The Emmett one is beautiful, but that poison one is so succinct. 00:19:56.290 --> 00:19:56.530 Yeah. 00:19:57.100 --> 00:19:57.550 Agreed. 00:19:58.550 --> 00:20:00.920 Uh, as for where the line is. 00:20:01.430 --> 00:20:02.450 Yeah, that's a good one. 00:20:02.450 --> 00:20:05.220 I mean, Tripping over into voyeurism. 00:20:05.220 --> 00:20:09.540 It's much easier to do in with some subject matter than others. 00:20:10.540 --> 00:20:11.620 The shows I listened to. 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:14.800 There's very rarely ever any feeling. 00:20:15.800 --> 00:20:16.280 Where it's. 00:20:16.280 --> 00:20:17.900 Yeah, it's turning into prying. 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:20.790 Sometimes you do get the sense when you're listening, that people have 00:20:20.790 --> 00:20:23.550 forgotten the mikes are on and they're just, you know, enjoying themselves. 00:20:23.580 --> 00:20:24.330 And they're just having a. 00:20:24.750 --> 00:20:27.210 Just a good chat and being as honest as they would with friends. 00:20:27.210 --> 00:20:28.680 And I mean, that's part of the attraction. 00:20:29.370 --> 00:20:30.120 And it's really not. 00:20:30.990 --> 00:20:32.340 Yeah, it's not quite the same. 00:20:32.730 --> 00:20:33.930 As someone who, you know, who's. 00:20:34.930 --> 00:20:38.350 You know, on YouTube trying to feed the beast and keep the algorithm going and 00:20:38.350 --> 00:20:41.050 getting driven by the incentives to. 00:20:42.050 --> 00:20:43.940 Exploit themselves more and more. 00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:48.080 And encourage the audience to exploit them, which is a very unhealthy dynamic 00:20:48.080 --> 00:20:49.550 that can occur on those platforms. 00:20:49.550 --> 00:20:51.020 And you can see someone go from. 00:20:51.980 --> 00:20:52.640 You know, creating. 00:20:53.270 --> 00:20:55.220 Just sort of relatively harmless. 00:20:55.910 --> 00:21:00.040 Humorous content it can develop into something quite dark and has a real edge. 00:21:00.550 --> 00:21:00.940 To it. 00:21:01.940 --> 00:21:04.160 Where you can see that there's, you know, that thing. 00:21:04.730 --> 00:21:05.690 Audience capture. 00:21:05.690 --> 00:21:07.520 And so I think that that's where the line is. 00:21:08.510 --> 00:21:13.790 When you feel as though you are encouraging or commissioning 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:16.100 something unhealthy to continue. 00:21:16.580 --> 00:21:17.630 And really it's. 00:21:18.230 --> 00:21:21.320 That that line is really no different as a listener. 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:23.210 Than it is. 00:21:23.840 --> 00:21:26.570 As a friend or, for someone close in your life. 00:21:27.230 --> 00:21:29.510 Where you might be encouraging or commissioning something 00:21:29.510 --> 00:21:30.710 unhealthy to continue. 00:21:31.370 --> 00:21:33.530 As a listener, that impact is much smaller. 00:21:34.180 --> 00:21:36.580 But it's basically the same sort of line where, where you, 00:21:36.610 --> 00:21:39.610 you know, And so just avoiding. 00:21:40.610 --> 00:21:43.190 Yeah, avoiding being part of something exploitative. 00:21:43.250 --> 00:21:44.330 I think you just, you feel it. 00:21:45.080 --> 00:21:47.510 Very rarely encountered that in podcasting, where I felt 00:21:47.510 --> 00:21:48.710 people were oversharing. 00:21:49.250 --> 00:21:51.050 Uh, and it's really very different to. 00:21:51.740 --> 00:21:52.160 You know, yeah. 00:21:52.220 --> 00:21:56.000 Being on Oprah or whatever, there might only be a few hundred listeners 00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:00.440 and those people, 99.9, 9% of them are going to, be very respectful. 00:22:01.220 --> 00:22:04.250 And are going to hold that sort of knowledge in the right way. 00:22:05.250 --> 00:22:06.330 So that's my thought on that. 00:22:06.330 --> 00:22:08.640 And I think it's very obvious from this message that. 00:22:09.690 --> 00:22:13.950 This listener is not in danger of being overly voyeuristic. 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:15.660 But also, I would say. 00:22:16.660 --> 00:22:19.840 You know, it is part of the fun, um, the appeal of. 00:22:20.840 --> 00:22:25.790 Being honest and knowing that someone that you don't necessarily know personally 00:22:25.790 --> 00:22:28.790 is going to know about it, because I think we've all got things we want to 00:22:28.790 --> 00:22:30.080 get off our chest and we've all got. 00:22:30.950 --> 00:22:32.570 Ways that we want to be seen. 00:22:33.080 --> 00:22:37.130 And sometimes we want to be seen in the uncomplimentary. 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:41.780 Things about ourselves, the unflattering things we want to be seen. 00:22:42.780 --> 00:22:46.020 In that way, not just as beautiful and capable and strong. 00:22:46.020 --> 00:22:46.410 Yes. 00:22:46.410 --> 00:22:46.980 Yes, yes. 00:22:47.010 --> 00:22:50.460 But we also want to be seen as the ugliness in us. 00:22:51.210 --> 00:22:51.720 And the. 00:22:52.560 --> 00:22:53.970 The clumsiness that is bare. 00:22:53.970 --> 00:22:54.300 The. 00:22:55.140 --> 00:22:55.770 The weakness. 00:22:56.770 --> 00:22:59.470 And to be seen and to still be accepted by people. 00:22:59.470 --> 00:23:00.610 I mean, that's very powerful. 00:23:01.090 --> 00:23:04.900 And it's not, it's not the same thing as like, you know, legitimising or. 00:23:05.900 --> 00:23:10.220 Um, You know, celebrating that it's, you know, it's just, it is what it is. 00:23:11.220 --> 00:23:11.520 And. 00:23:12.510 --> 00:23:13.350 To, to kind of. 00:23:14.040 --> 00:23:15.090 Get it off your chest. 00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:17.510 It's not going to feed the beast and make things worse that you. 00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:19.310 It takes it in the other direction. 00:23:20.310 --> 00:23:23.970 Of, um, Feeling that it's easier to manage because you've shared 00:23:23.970 --> 00:23:25.410 it in that, in the right way. 00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:27.180 , He has a little. 00:23:28.020 --> 00:23:30.630 Joe said to someone, I thought we talked over each other too much. 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:33.720 And then the person replied, there was only one moment where I thought that. 00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:35.980 You know, this has come up a lot. 00:23:36.580 --> 00:23:41.270 Um, With, uh, us interrupting each other and yeah, this is worth acknowledging. 00:23:42.170 --> 00:23:43.070 The end was great. 00:23:44.070 --> 00:23:46.170 And I'm looking forward to the ending therapy slash 00:23:46.170 --> 00:23:47.490 administering your own medicine. 00:23:48.490 --> 00:23:50.620 Oh, man, we did record that one. 00:23:51.100 --> 00:23:54.670 But the sound got stuffed up, so yeah, we're going to have to do it again. 00:23:54.670 --> 00:23:55.150 I think. 00:23:56.080 --> 00:23:58.870 I'll go so far as to say I envy you in the pod space. 00:23:58.900 --> 00:24:00.910 Not because I literally want a podcast. 00:24:01.840 --> 00:24:04.330 But the way you spoke at the end about using a part of your brain to 00:24:04.330 --> 00:24:08.980 express your thoughts in a way you hadn't for 15 years, Made me realize 00:24:09.010 --> 00:24:10.750 that's what I seek with my writing. 00:24:10.750 --> 00:24:13.570 And I'm envious of people who get external validation or connection 00:24:13.570 --> 00:24:14.710 with other humans in that form. 00:24:14.770 --> 00:24:15.460 Oh my God. 00:24:15.460 --> 00:24:16.390 There's nothing wrong with that. 00:24:16.450 --> 00:24:17.230 I love this. 00:24:17.230 --> 00:24:17.740 This is. 00:24:18.520 --> 00:24:19.930 Wow, this is okay. 00:24:20.050 --> 00:24:21.400 That felt a little bit cosmic. 00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:22.960 I'd literally just been saying. 00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:27.190 You want to, you want your weakness and your ugliness and your, the things you're 00:24:27.190 --> 00:24:29.230 not proud of to be seen and accepted. 00:24:29.980 --> 00:24:32.260 You know, it's the hiding of that, that kills us. 00:24:32.260 --> 00:24:33.700 It's the hide, like literally. 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:36.850 It's a hiding of that, that takes us away from life. 00:24:37.850 --> 00:24:39.080 In the fullest sense. 00:24:40.580 --> 00:24:43.730 And then this message comes along and just confirming the, I wasn't sure 00:24:43.730 --> 00:24:44.900 where I was going with that thought. 00:24:44.930 --> 00:24:46.610 Well, here's where I was going with it. 00:24:47.610 --> 00:24:48.270 One of our. 00:24:49.270 --> 00:24:51.940 Longest and most loyal listeners is. 00:24:52.750 --> 00:24:56.410 Understands exactly what I'm talking about and feels the same way. 00:24:56.530 --> 00:24:56.860 And. 00:24:57.860 --> 00:25:00.140 That's very helpful for both of us, I think. 00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:00.770 And. 00:25:01.770 --> 00:25:03.420 So what I want to say about that? 00:25:04.080 --> 00:25:05.520 Is thank you for expressing it. 00:25:05.580 --> 00:25:06.270 First of all. 00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:09.270 And I don't think there's anything wrong with that envy. 00:25:09.300 --> 00:25:14.170 And as we discussed in that episode on envy, But it's really just pointing us to. 00:25:15.040 --> 00:25:15.730 Things. 00:25:16.210 --> 00:25:18.850 Um, Sometimes on the very literal level. 00:25:19.660 --> 00:25:20.740 Oh, I want to do that too. 00:25:20.770 --> 00:25:21.130 Great. 00:25:21.460 --> 00:25:21.790 Do it. 00:25:22.540 --> 00:25:23.230 Other times it might. 00:25:23.260 --> 00:25:23.410 Yeah, I. 00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:26.710 I might have to dig a little bit to get what it's actually telling you. 00:25:26.710 --> 00:25:28.570 It might not be so obvious, but , it's there. 00:25:29.080 --> 00:25:30.190 You know where to dig. 00:25:31.190 --> 00:25:34.670 But in this case, um, to this person, I would say. 00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:35.960 Absolutely do it. 00:25:37.840 --> 00:25:39.490 , As in have a podcast. 00:25:40.030 --> 00:25:42.820 You know, I can advise about, , an affordable mic. 00:25:42.820 --> 00:25:43.630 That will sound great. 00:25:44.140 --> 00:25:44.710 And. 00:25:45.610 --> 00:25:46.780 You know, you can get started. 00:25:47.780 --> 00:25:49.250 And if you're already writing. 00:25:50.250 --> 00:25:51.300 Oh, really? 00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:55.110 I cannot encourage you enough to do this. 00:25:56.100 --> 00:25:56.760 Because. 00:25:57.570 --> 00:25:58.500 Uh, yeah, I do think of. 00:25:58.890 --> 00:26:00.750 Podcasting as a form of writing. 00:26:01.620 --> 00:26:02.850 Usually cause a lot of thought. 00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:04.980 Has gone in ahead of an episode. 00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:08.800 The trick in my case actually sort of gathering all those. 00:26:09.730 --> 00:26:12.310 Thoughts, all those fluttering birds and bringing them to roost 00:26:12.310 --> 00:26:15.100 at the right moment is, you know, can be an enormous challenge. 00:26:15.100 --> 00:26:17.980 And it's not a trick I always pull off, but I kind of enjoy 00:26:18.070 --> 00:26:19.690 that improvisational approach. 00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:22.480 Um, and I liked the riskiness of it. 00:26:23.350 --> 00:26:24.850 And I'm willing to accept failure. 00:26:25.330 --> 00:26:25.660 But. 00:26:26.620 --> 00:26:27.340 If your. 00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:30.370 Someone with a regular writing practice, which I S. 00:26:30.520 --> 00:26:32.740 I have a very patchy writing practice and I should be. 00:26:33.310 --> 00:26:35.140 And I want to turn some of that into audio. 00:26:35.510 --> 00:26:36.260 , it was read it out. 00:26:37.040 --> 00:26:39.050 But if you've got a regular writing practice in. 00:26:39.620 --> 00:26:40.610 You won't ways. 00:26:41.610 --> 00:26:42.810 To connect that. 00:26:43.080 --> 00:26:46.350 Um, in a more, you know, bring the circle back around in this 00:26:46.350 --> 00:26:47.430 way that you're talking about. 00:26:48.430 --> 00:26:51.760 , using a part of your brain to express your thoughts in a way you hadn't 15 years. 00:26:52.120 --> 00:26:53.620 That's what I seek with my writing. 00:26:54.620 --> 00:26:56.690 And the validation, there's nothing wrong with wanting that. 00:26:57.690 --> 00:26:59.430 You remember that episode of scrubs years ago? 00:27:00.120 --> 00:27:00.510 Where. 00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:04.140 You know, Turk was claiming that it, you know, it wasn't about the ego. 00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:05.880 Wasn't about being a good surgeon. 00:27:06.330 --> 00:27:09.610 You know, it wasn't about being admired by people and, Dr. 00:27:09.610 --> 00:27:11.110 Cox is calling him out on that. 00:27:11.590 --> 00:27:15.910 You know, The wonderful, , James C uh, McGinley. 00:27:16.910 --> 00:27:18.170 I actually have written it. 00:27:18.500 --> 00:27:21.980 I've written a pilot for a television show starring him. 00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:24.350 Um, I really should, uh, dig that out. 00:27:24.770 --> 00:27:26.960 Um, I built the show with him in mind. 00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:31.950 Um, that's another story, but you know, adventures in writing. 00:27:32.730 --> 00:27:35.790 Sometimes what they need is to be set out loud. 00:27:35.860 --> 00:27:37.780 Riders are always given that advice to. 00:27:38.780 --> 00:27:41.570 Read their work out loud and, you know, hear the rhythm of 00:27:41.570 --> 00:27:42.500 it or get someone else to. 00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:43.590 Read it out here. 00:27:43.590 --> 00:27:44.160 The music. 00:27:44.190 --> 00:27:47.220 I hear the rhythm or not as the case may be here, the bum 00:27:47.220 --> 00:27:48.960 notes and, you know, fix them. 00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:51.070 Find where the rhythm is. 00:27:51.070 --> 00:27:53.020 The pace is, you know, dragging. 00:27:54.020 --> 00:27:57.200 This, there's something about bringing it out of the head and 00:27:57.200 --> 00:27:59.600 the page where it's a silent thing. 00:28:00.230 --> 00:28:03.410 It's not silent when the person's reading it, they give voice to it in their 00:28:03.410 --> 00:28:05.510 own mind, which is a beautiful thing. 00:28:06.510 --> 00:28:11.490 But, you can give voice to it yourself and you can transmit those thoughts to. 00:28:12.210 --> 00:28:13.530 A different kind of reader. 00:28:14.520 --> 00:28:15.240 Who may be. 00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:20.690 It doesn't have the I budget, to sit and read or, um, it's not something 00:28:20.690 --> 00:28:23.030 they're good at, or, like me, maybe they. 00:28:23.930 --> 00:28:28.100 Uh, don't always set aside that time for various reasons, 00:28:28.100 --> 00:28:29.540 including, you know, focus. 00:28:30.530 --> 00:28:31.580 But if I'm listening. 00:28:32.180 --> 00:28:32.570 And. 00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:34.590 Doing something with my hands. 00:28:34.740 --> 00:28:37.710 I'm the most attentive reader you could possibly imagine. 00:28:37.770 --> 00:28:39.210 Like I'm really all in. 00:28:40.210 --> 00:28:41.560 I came across a wonderful study. 00:28:42.130 --> 00:28:43.390 Years ago, early in. 00:28:44.350 --> 00:28:45.909 Learning about education. 00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:49.889 , that one of the most helpful things for kids who struggle with, , literacy. 00:28:50.889 --> 00:28:53.989 Is, listen to a pod and follow along with a transcript. 00:28:54.889 --> 00:28:58.129 Now, back in the day, it was really expensive to produce transcripts, 00:28:58.159 --> 00:28:59.569 but now it's, much, much easier. 00:29:00.529 --> 00:29:02.510 Um, thanks to our AI overlords. 00:29:03.509 --> 00:29:07.689 Uh, and, uh, If you've written it well, you've already got the words. 00:29:08.139 --> 00:29:10.899 And so people can listen and they can read along as well. 00:29:11.259 --> 00:29:13.569 If they want and well, they can just listen. 00:29:14.139 --> 00:29:18.339 And then you can give them away to, you know, reach out and close that circle. 00:29:18.819 --> 00:29:22.599 So that's something I'd really be keen to see happen. 00:29:23.169 --> 00:29:26.800 Because as I keep saying, I'm so grateful to the people. 00:29:27.789 --> 00:29:30.849 That attracted me to this medium and told me about it. 00:29:30.909 --> 00:29:32.769 And I'm a grateful to the people I listened to. 00:29:33.869 --> 00:29:35.909 They're the reason that I eventually got going. 00:29:36.179 --> 00:29:38.399 Uh, well, you know, and Joe, it was crucial. 00:29:39.399 --> 00:29:40.209 And Hume McGinley. 00:29:41.209 --> 00:29:43.399 And all those early listeners who. 00:29:44.040 --> 00:29:48.239 Left voice messages in chats and like all that was just absolutely essential. 00:29:48.239 --> 00:29:51.309 And, this person is one of those early listeners who was 00:29:51.309 --> 00:29:52.899 critical to keeping it all going. 00:29:53.899 --> 00:29:54.379 So. 00:29:55.249 --> 00:29:56.629 It would really make sense. 00:29:57.289 --> 00:29:57.949 For that. 00:29:58.949 --> 00:30:00.899 Work to, to continue. 00:30:01.049 --> 00:30:02.459 And to me, there's no difference. 00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:05.549 Listening, speaking, it's all part of the same process. 00:30:05.579 --> 00:30:05.969 Isn't it? 00:30:06.059 --> 00:30:08.849 And we shouldn't just be speaking or just be listening. 00:30:08.849 --> 00:30:11.039 We should be doing both as a human. 00:30:11.069 --> 00:30:12.479 We have a right. 00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:15.329 And, uh, an obligation to speak and to listen. 00:30:16.329 --> 00:30:20.229 And the listening part was something I really had to work on because 00:30:20.259 --> 00:30:23.769 I just wanted to speak and I just really wanted to be heard, heard, 00:30:23.769 --> 00:30:25.389 heard, and I was greedy to be heard. 00:30:25.389 --> 00:30:28.260 And, , it was great to discover that I was actually a greedy to hear. 00:30:28.889 --> 00:30:29.340 As well. 00:30:30.179 --> 00:30:30.659 So. 00:30:31.459 --> 00:30:34.420 I hope you'll, , move towards, , that if it feels right for you. 00:30:35.419 --> 00:30:37.339 Um, Here's another one. 00:30:37.399 --> 00:30:40.339 I haven't listened to the Jesus one yet, but the latest episode 00:30:40.339 --> 00:30:41.539 was very interesting to me. 00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:44.239 I followed your podcast and would like to listen more about the realities 00:30:44.239 --> 00:30:45.469 and issues of our generation. 00:30:45.499 --> 00:30:46.159 Fascinating. 00:30:46.189 --> 00:30:48.769 You guys are great chatters and have nice voices. 00:30:49.769 --> 00:30:50.490 I'm not native. 00:30:50.490 --> 00:30:53.459 So I need to listen one more time as I didn't get some words. 00:30:53.999 --> 00:30:56.340 Ah, well, that's where the transcript can be helpful. 00:30:57.340 --> 00:30:59.889 Matter of fact, I just realized some people may, a lot of 00:30:59.889 --> 00:31:00.820 people may not be aware. 00:31:01.420 --> 00:31:02.920 Of how to access transcripts. 00:31:03.790 --> 00:31:06.880 , Every episode we upload has a transcript attached, which is, 00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:08.680 you know, maybe 95% accurate. 00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:12.990 Sometimes I correct them by hand and sometimes I don't, but all of 00:31:12.990 --> 00:31:14.490 those are available on our website. 00:31:14.790 --> 00:31:17.640 T T T dot transistor dot F M. 00:31:18.270 --> 00:31:19.650 But they're also available. 00:31:20.040 --> 00:31:21.630 In some apps. 00:31:22.110 --> 00:31:26.100 Apple podcasts now, , is actually producing their own transcripts, 00:31:26.100 --> 00:31:27.630 which in some cases might be better. 00:31:28.290 --> 00:31:29.940 Then the one we've included. 00:31:30.940 --> 00:31:31.450 And. 00:31:32.140 --> 00:31:36.280 The aforementioned podcast guru will show a nice, neat little 00:31:36.280 --> 00:31:38.860 transcript as you listen in the app. 00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:40.940 , you can activate it or leave it off. 00:31:41.580 --> 00:31:42.750 , and fountain. 00:31:43.470 --> 00:31:44.610 Pod verse. 00:31:45.610 --> 00:31:46.960 Pod friend. 00:31:47.860 --> 00:31:50.410 True fans and a bunch of others. 00:31:51.020 --> 00:31:52.940 Have that transcript capability. 00:31:53.630 --> 00:31:56.450 Like in-app so you don't have to go to a website to see it. 00:31:57.450 --> 00:32:01.850 So highly recommend trying out one of those and as a handy URL, new 00:32:01.850 --> 00:32:06.500 podcast apps, you know, just look that up and, you know, it lists them 00:32:06.500 --> 00:32:08.960 by feature and grab one of those. 00:32:08.990 --> 00:32:09.470 And. 00:32:10.100 --> 00:32:12.470 Subscribe to the show in that. 00:32:13.430 --> 00:32:14.630 If you want to access those. 00:32:15.090 --> 00:32:20.300 Things like chapters and, , Episode art, not just the usual show art. 00:32:20.910 --> 00:32:21.930 Poke Husker is the one. 00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:26.530 Um, Leaning on a lot at the moment, looking for another one. 00:32:27.530 --> 00:32:28.520 May I share a thought. 00:32:28.520 --> 00:32:29.810 I find incredibly powerful. 00:32:30.800 --> 00:32:32.720 A self-esteem builder equals. 00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:34.500 God paid. 00:32:34.950 --> 00:32:38.360 Has offered exactly the same price to save everybody that chooses to have faith. 00:32:39.290 --> 00:32:42.350 Equals the price being the precious blood of your son, Christ Jesus. 00:32:42.380 --> 00:32:46.520 That makes us equal, not above, not below in value to every other human being. 00:32:47.150 --> 00:32:48.800 This price was paid before I was born. 00:32:48.800 --> 00:32:50.900 Our mere human existence makes us valuable. 00:32:51.750 --> 00:32:51.990 Yeah. 00:32:52.020 --> 00:32:56.010 And so while I am not a believer in the same way as this person, I think I can 00:32:56.010 --> 00:32:57.750 very much connect to what they're saying. 00:32:58.350 --> 00:32:59.940 That none of us are above or below. 00:33:00.940 --> 00:33:01.450 Each other. 00:33:02.450 --> 00:33:06.200 That episode, um, Jesus is my homie from Joe where he really lays it on 00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:09.980 the line . Where his spiritual journey has taken him in the last few years. 00:33:09.980 --> 00:33:10.640 That was really cool. 00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:12.170 A lot of people really, really connected. 00:33:12.500 --> 00:33:12.950 With that. 00:33:13.950 --> 00:33:14.550 Hi, Joe. 00:33:15.190 --> 00:33:17.920 Just stumbled upon your channel and heard that Jesus is your homie. 00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:18.280 Love it. 00:33:19.280 --> 00:33:22.130 You mentioned reading a book about the sermon on the Mount. 00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:25.880 Do you mind sharing with me the full title and author watched a great movie 00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:27.710 the other week, the case for Christ. 00:33:27.830 --> 00:33:30.410 If you ever want to share your faith with another person trying. 00:33:30.410 --> 00:33:32.750 So in perfectly to live the Christian faith. 00:33:33.020 --> 00:33:34.820 We'd be happy to chat or meet up. 00:33:35.510 --> 00:33:36.020 That's cool. 00:33:36.020 --> 00:33:36.350 Isn't it? 00:33:37.350 --> 00:33:38.970 Here's one from an early listener. 00:33:39.730 --> 00:33:42.160 You guys should get a Patrion account and you work hard enough at it. 00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:44.240 Joe says doubt. 00:33:44.270 --> 00:33:45.470 Anyone would give us money. 00:33:45.830 --> 00:33:46.400 Never know. 00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:52.680 Um, How many listeners you got and Joe says one 50 max per app. 00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:53.520 Yeah, I think we do. 00:33:53.580 --> 00:33:54.690 We get up around there. 00:33:55.110 --> 00:33:57.660 Um, I think we've nudged up to 200. 00:33:57.660 --> 00:33:59.460 Some, some of them might be up to 300. 00:33:59.970 --> 00:34:03.270 Ask Sam, if he'll teach me about a hundred Krishna movement sometime. 00:34:03.540 --> 00:34:03.660 Yeah. 00:34:04.660 --> 00:34:08.020 Yeah, I need to talk more about the higher Krishna stuff at some point, for sure. 00:34:09.020 --> 00:34:10.220 Here's one from my mate. 00:34:11.220 --> 00:34:14.070 Totally on the alley rationalist viewpoint on this app. 00:34:14.580 --> 00:34:18.900 But, uh, recognize a yearning to see Joe's broader awareness, , worldview 00:34:19.140 --> 00:34:20.700 challenging my way of looking at things. 00:34:20.730 --> 00:34:22.350 Thanks as always guys. 00:34:23.350 --> 00:34:23.560 Yeah. 00:34:24.560 --> 00:34:25.760 Uh, oh, sorry. 00:34:25.820 --> 00:34:27.170 One, two punch podcast. 00:34:27.170 --> 00:34:28.760 You are resonated with me this morning. 00:34:28.790 --> 00:34:32.300 The 10,000 things break down episode with Joe seeing meaning in consciousness, 00:34:32.300 --> 00:34:35.810 expanding experiences and Alex O'Connor's within reason episode 00:34:35.810 --> 00:34:38.270 on meaning and death meaty stuff. 00:34:39.050 --> 00:34:39.620 There you go. 00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:42.410 So we are in some good company there. 00:34:42.470 --> 00:34:44.840 I've heard Alex O'Connor mentioned recently. 00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:46.350 As well. 00:34:47.350 --> 00:34:48.910 And I think this was about the same episode. 00:34:48.940 --> 00:34:49.210 Yes. 00:34:49.210 --> 00:34:52.240 I don't often get to hear about that sort of experience from people who can 00:34:52.240 --> 00:34:55.210 so well articulated, engaging, inspiring. 00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:55.750 Awesome. 00:34:56.750 --> 00:34:58.580 Uh, I think that was about the breakdown episode. 00:34:58.670 --> 00:35:03.630 Uh, Hope you are well too amazing episode slash grilling of Allie. 00:35:04.290 --> 00:35:05.370 She is a brave woman. 00:35:06.370 --> 00:35:08.890 Uh, Joe says, I thought you might be appalled with are completely 00:35:08.890 --> 00:35:10.180 unqualified grilling a valley. 00:35:10.690 --> 00:35:12.190 And then she replies. 00:35:12.250 --> 00:35:15.610 I was actually a bit concerned, but she handled it with aplomb. 00:35:16.150 --> 00:35:17.230 How is she after it? 00:35:17.980 --> 00:35:18.190 Yeah. 00:35:19.190 --> 00:35:20.060 Uh, good. 00:35:20.120 --> 00:35:20.690 I think. 00:35:21.470 --> 00:35:23.000 Uh, that reminds me though. 00:35:23.216 --> 00:35:25.916 the other person was saying earlier about where is that line, where 00:35:25.916 --> 00:35:27.176 it might become exploitative. 00:35:27.206 --> 00:35:30.056 And certainly Joe and Ellie have both told, you know, gut 00:35:30.056 --> 00:35:31.406 wrenching breakdown stories. 00:35:32.406 --> 00:35:33.366 Um, and to me. 00:35:34.296 --> 00:35:37.896 That feels like a fairly normal conversation to have, to be honest. 00:35:38.706 --> 00:35:42.216 Um, because of childhood experiences, I had actually had adults confess. 00:35:42.636 --> 00:35:44.406 Um, all kinds of things to me. 00:35:45.396 --> 00:35:47.376 Um, in that hard question of context. 00:35:47.916 --> 00:35:48.426 Um, 00:35:49.426 --> 00:35:50.776 So maybe I can be. 00:35:51.776 --> 00:35:53.226 Oh, yeah. 00:35:53.766 --> 00:35:54.846 Maybe not relaxed. 00:35:55.846 --> 00:36:00.076 But I don't get as alarmed as, as easily as perhaps I should sometimes. 00:36:02.076 --> 00:36:04.506 , But also we did get some feedback after that. 00:36:05.166 --> 00:36:08.606 Yeah, that obviously Allie did a really important thing, shared some 00:36:08.666 --> 00:36:12.336 things, very courageously, some horrifying experiences that, I think 00:36:12.336 --> 00:36:16.576 it's important to talk about for her own sake, but other people as well. 00:36:16.766 --> 00:36:20.426 But we did get that feedback from a listener who said they, that they 00:36:20.456 --> 00:36:22.286 felt that , Joe and I weren't holding. 00:36:23.286 --> 00:36:24.816 Allie's grief and sadness. 00:36:25.146 --> 00:36:28.626 The difficulty we weren't like holding it in quite, quite the right way. 00:36:28.686 --> 00:36:30.126 And I would probably agree with that. 00:36:31.126 --> 00:36:31.486 Now. 00:36:32.026 --> 00:36:33.106 Complete change of tech. 00:36:34.006 --> 00:36:35.806 Uh, someone quoting the show back to us. 00:36:35.866 --> 00:36:38.146 I just thought posting a hot photo of myself might have 00:36:38.446 --> 00:36:39.766 helped everyone calm down. 00:36:40.766 --> 00:36:41.486 That sent me. 00:36:42.146 --> 00:36:43.856 Uh, yeah, that was very funny. 00:36:44.856 --> 00:36:47.286 Here's another one relating to a breakdown episode, 00:36:47.786 --> 00:36:49.256 I listened to ambassador hotel. 00:36:49.316 --> 00:36:49.796 Big. 00:36:49.976 --> 00:36:50.576 Wow. 00:36:51.326 --> 00:36:54.296 Can totally see the therapy therapeutic benefit in the podcast. 00:36:54.296 --> 00:36:56.546 There's so many who would never find a way to do that. 00:36:57.476 --> 00:36:58.166 As an aside. 00:36:58.166 --> 00:37:01.886 Interesting to hear that the dynamic of just the two of you versus three, I think 00:37:01.886 --> 00:37:03.536 it's good, but Allie makes it great. 00:37:04.376 --> 00:37:04.976 Well, there you go. 00:37:05.976 --> 00:37:06.906 There's confirmation. 00:37:06.906 --> 00:37:10.056 Oh, that's episode nine or 10 or 11, somewhere around there. 00:37:11.476 --> 00:37:14.296 We do probably have one or two OGE stands that will like. 00:37:14.726 --> 00:37:14.996 A locked. 00:37:15.146 --> 00:37:16.226 When it was just the true. 00:37:16.276 --> 00:37:19.816 . Every, every single show I love has changed in some way. 00:37:19.906 --> 00:37:23.956 And sometimes I do move on and sometimes I. 00:37:24.886 --> 00:37:25.876 Embrace it. 00:37:26.146 --> 00:37:26.986 Uh, begrudgingly. 00:37:26.986 --> 00:37:27.706 Is that possible? 00:37:27.706 --> 00:37:28.306 Yeah, I guess. 00:37:29.306 --> 00:37:31.556 Before eventually going, no, no, this is good. 00:37:32.210 --> 00:37:33.290 I always enjoy your apps. 00:37:33.290 --> 00:37:34.580 And this one was super entertaining. 00:37:34.610 --> 00:37:37.490 I had a really frustrated response throughout it, obviously, because 00:37:37.490 --> 00:37:40.340 I am exactly one of the serial offenders that you speak of. 00:37:41.340 --> 00:37:42.480 Which topic was this? 00:37:43.050 --> 00:37:46.560 Um, interesting how much I wanted to defend my position as I was listening. 00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:51.120 I still feel this urge to justify to you all why I post the way I do and to 00:37:51.120 --> 00:37:53.430 explain it's not all just online stuff. 00:37:53.820 --> 00:37:55.830 I'm trying to work out why I care so much. 00:37:56.160 --> 00:37:58.440 Definitely feeling seen and not in a good way. 00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:00.130 I remember now. 00:38:00.580 --> 00:38:01.810 That was the a, yeah. 00:38:01.870 --> 00:38:02.740 Shut the hell up. 00:38:03.010 --> 00:38:06.400 You know, stop posting stuff that you, uh, you know, stay 00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:07.660 in your lane app that we did. 00:38:08.620 --> 00:38:12.490 From memory, I was in favor of not staying in your lane overall. 00:38:12.490 --> 00:38:13.030 And that. 00:38:13.870 --> 00:38:14.200 I think. 00:38:14.890 --> 00:38:17.920 You know, one of the problems with the stay in your lane and like don't post 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:20.080 about things you don't know about is. 00:38:20.680 --> 00:38:23.140 It, I don't think this got covered in the app. 00:38:23.200 --> 00:38:25.390 I think it was one of those things later where I was like, damn. 00:38:25.720 --> 00:38:27.070 This is what I really wanted to say. 00:38:27.070 --> 00:38:28.420 So now I get to do it. 00:38:29.380 --> 00:38:30.220 Okay, so here goes. 00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:32.410 The Dunning Kruger effect. 00:38:33.100 --> 00:38:33.730 It's where. 00:38:34.730 --> 00:38:39.020 People that know enough about a topic and they have a level of intelligence 00:38:39.050 --> 00:38:40.790 necessary threshold of intelligence. 00:38:40.790 --> 00:38:43.430 You learn a bit about a topic and then you get humbled by it. 00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:44.120 Right. 00:38:44.420 --> 00:38:46.490 You start out yeah, I get this it's simple. 00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:49.670 And then you do a bit of reading or a bit of listening and wait a minute. 00:38:49.670 --> 00:38:53.470 There's way more to this than I thought this is a vast area of knowledge 00:38:53.830 --> 00:38:55.180 you're staring at the grand canyon. 00:38:55.180 --> 00:38:55.420 Right? 00:38:55.420 --> 00:38:56.620 You thought it was just a ditch. 00:38:57.580 --> 00:39:01.360 And, and, you know, It's the, it's the golf of space and time. 00:39:01.410 --> 00:39:02.760 And that humility is really cool. 00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:05.350 Uh, and it's essential to learning. 00:39:05.350 --> 00:39:10.130 You have to embrace your ignorance and you have to be uncomfortable with it. 00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:12.690 It makes you hungry to know more, right? 00:39:13.220 --> 00:39:16.730 So if you're like me, you end up learning about a lot of different topics and. 00:39:17.730 --> 00:39:20.130 You know enough to know you don't fully get it. 00:39:20.970 --> 00:39:25.110 But you have a duty nonetheless, to at least speak from that 00:39:25.110 --> 00:39:26.580 position of partial knowledge. 00:39:26.580 --> 00:39:29.250 And you, you, you know, you have to be honest about what 00:39:29.250 --> 00:39:30.570 you're doing, don't know, right. 00:39:31.080 --> 00:39:33.180 And you can say things like it seems to me. 00:39:33.690 --> 00:39:36.120 You don't need to make absolute statements. 00:39:36.450 --> 00:39:37.050 This is wrong. 00:39:37.050 --> 00:39:37.710 And that is right. 00:39:37.740 --> 00:39:41.110 In fact, Usually that's once you know, a little bit, you won't 00:39:41.110 --> 00:39:42.340 be thinking that way anyway. 00:39:43.340 --> 00:39:49.440 Um, but when it's clear, That there is a statement worth making. 00:39:50.010 --> 00:39:50.490 Well, yeah. 00:39:51.060 --> 00:39:53.280 Put a caveat in there, but go ahead and make it. 00:39:54.090 --> 00:39:57.450 Because if the smart people who have looked into stuff a little 00:39:57.450 --> 00:40:00.510 bit, if they all hang back because they know that they're not experts. 00:40:01.170 --> 00:40:02.430 Guess who that leaves. 00:40:03.120 --> 00:40:08.730 The people that have not done any homework at all, who feel supremely confident 00:40:08.820 --> 00:40:11.040 in their completely uninformed opinion. 00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:16.320 So if the semi informed stay out of it, The completely uninformed 00:40:16.350 --> 00:40:17.670 will dominate the debate. 00:40:18.670 --> 00:40:19.870 So, I'm sorry to tell you. 00:40:20.870 --> 00:40:22.250 Half-assed opinions. 00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:24.860 Uh, better than no asked opinions. 00:40:24.890 --> 00:40:25.250 Right. 00:40:26.250 --> 00:40:31.050 So if you're half informed, Just say, Hey man, I'm half informed. 00:40:31.620 --> 00:40:32.670 But it seems to me. 00:40:33.090 --> 00:40:33.570 That. 00:40:34.570 --> 00:40:34.930 You know, 00:40:35.930 --> 00:40:36.800 I think that works. 00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:39.300 And like I said, I would hate to see. 00:40:39.690 --> 00:40:45.180 The more thoughtful types, hang back and just allow all the, uh, this is simple. 00:40:45.540 --> 00:40:46.290 I am right. 00:40:46.290 --> 00:40:49.740 Respect my opinion types to, dominate everything. 00:40:50.740 --> 00:40:52.090 We don't have to be arrogant about it. 00:40:52.930 --> 00:40:56.260 And we don't even necessarily have to express an opinion when we post. 00:40:57.260 --> 00:40:58.760 I think I might've said this in the app. 00:40:59.210 --> 00:41:02.840 Sometimes we can just mention that we're considering this mentioned 00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:03.950 that we're thinking about it. 00:41:04.950 --> 00:41:07.050 That can be incredibly powerful. 00:41:07.830 --> 00:41:11.820 We are a herd species to some degree, and we need to know what 00:41:11.820 --> 00:41:13.230 other people are thinking about. 00:41:13.290 --> 00:41:14.580 It is powerful. 00:41:15.090 --> 00:41:18.390 And when we know that everybody else is concerned about something. 00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:21.950 Maybe we don't necessarily agree, on every aspect of it, but we all 00:41:21.950 --> 00:41:23.570 recognize that this is important. 00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:26.660 If no, one's saying, I think this is important. 00:41:27.560 --> 00:41:28.430 I'm worried. 00:41:29.150 --> 00:41:31.820 I have questions, you know, if no one's saying that. 00:41:32.450 --> 00:41:35.900 Or only the, you know, The Noah asked to do versus the saying 00:41:35.930 --> 00:41:37.250 that then that's no good. 00:41:38.250 --> 00:41:39.330 And the same person said. 00:41:39.980 --> 00:41:42.770 Uh, the irony of three north side is sitting around expressing their 00:41:42.770 --> 00:41:44.210 opinions about things for an hour. 00:41:45.210 --> 00:41:46.170 Well shit canning. 00:41:46.170 --> 00:41:48.840 Middle-class white women for doing their version of the same. 00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:53.110 And then the reply to that was turns out Allie was doing the exact same posting. 00:41:53.110 --> 00:41:56.350 She was complaining about which we worked out during the episode. 00:41:57.350 --> 00:41:58.280 I look, I've done it. 00:41:58.520 --> 00:42:01.040 And I've told people to get off the internet. 00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:01.700 God. 00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:04.610 Everyone has I hope, I mean, come on. 00:42:05.330 --> 00:42:06.800 It's a birthright at this point. 00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:11.400 But in all seriousness, no, I don't think middle-class white 00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:12.570 women should stay out of it. 00:42:12.630 --> 00:42:13.710 I think. 00:42:14.670 --> 00:42:17.280 There are some things where maybe they could. 00:42:17.640 --> 00:42:19.740 You know, step back one little bit. 00:42:20.670 --> 00:42:24.240 Um, But it has to be acknowledged that. 00:42:25.240 --> 00:42:26.440 For better or worse. 00:42:26.560 --> 00:42:28.630 It's often middle-class white women that do. 00:42:29.060 --> 00:42:30.700 There, it might be in a position. 00:42:31.240 --> 00:42:32.080 To be heard. 00:42:33.080 --> 00:42:36.290 Because I have access to certain people that maybe others don't. 00:42:37.290 --> 00:42:40.290 So there's a, there's an important network effect. 00:42:40.770 --> 00:42:45.390 If, if an issue is never championed outside of the effected group, 00:42:45.420 --> 00:42:46.830 it usually doesn't go anywhere. 00:42:47.830 --> 00:42:50.260 So in middle-class white women take up causes. 00:42:51.220 --> 00:42:54.430 Um, As they have been doing for centuries. 00:42:55.090 --> 00:42:56.740 When really they are. 00:42:57.370 --> 00:42:57.700 Like. 00:42:58.700 --> 00:43:02.750 Textbook case of taking up causes and not always to the right effect, 00:43:02.780 --> 00:43:06.650 of course, but I mean, that's never the case with, you know, we 00:43:06.650 --> 00:43:08.630 can't guarantee the right outcome. 00:43:09.630 --> 00:43:13.050 But, but it's, it's just a fact that middle-class white women have actually 00:43:13.050 --> 00:43:15.690 played a crucial role in modern history. 00:43:15.900 --> 00:43:18.780 Uh, it's not for no reason they had literacy. 00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:24.390 Um, Maybe they didn't have to work 12 to 14 hours a day in paid employment 00:43:24.390 --> 00:43:25.980 and domestic labor and childcare. 00:43:25.980 --> 00:43:27.300 Maybe they had helped with that stuff. 00:43:27.300 --> 00:43:30.960 So they had the luxury of reading and writing. 00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:36.580 Letters and gathering in parlors and talking about things and getting petitions 00:43:36.580 --> 00:43:39.190 going and they had the respectability. 00:43:40.130 --> 00:43:44.660 It was very difficult for the patriarchy in the battle for. 00:43:45.660 --> 00:43:46.830 Universal suffrage. 00:43:47.550 --> 00:43:50.550 They were working class women in there who was sometimes overshadowed 00:43:50.550 --> 00:43:51.870 by the middle-class women. 00:43:51.990 --> 00:43:56.300 And there were women of color who were often, overshadowed, also . And of course 00:43:56.300 --> 00:43:58.370 there was a parallel struggle for them. 00:43:58.480 --> 00:43:59.380 , the emancipation. 00:43:59.800 --> 00:44:01.930 Of people in slavery. 00:44:02.770 --> 00:44:07.220 And there was an enormous debate in 19th century activism about whether to 00:44:07.220 --> 00:44:09.440 prioritize emancipation or suffrage. 00:44:10.490 --> 00:44:14.450 , so you can see that middle-class white women have treated this issue sometimes 00:44:14.450 --> 00:44:18.020 selfishly and sometimes selflessly and have sometimes very much come 00:44:18.020 --> 00:44:19.970 down on the right side of history. 00:44:20.540 --> 00:44:23.470 So if we told them to get out, it would cripple. 00:44:24.200 --> 00:44:27.610 a key plank in civil society. 00:44:28.450 --> 00:44:29.440 It's just a fact. 00:44:30.040 --> 00:44:30.430 Yeah. 00:44:30.940 --> 00:44:31.900 Does that mean though? 00:44:31.900 --> 00:44:33.460 That it's always a benign influence? 00:44:33.460 --> 00:44:34.210 No, of course not. 00:44:34.570 --> 00:44:37.060 And so the usual caveats apply. 00:44:37.600 --> 00:44:42.230 You know, there were suffragettes who did not want rough girls getting the vote. 00:44:42.230 --> 00:44:45.170 I did not want sex workers getting the vote. 00:44:45.560 --> 00:44:48.230 Did not want women without property or unmarried. 00:44:48.840 --> 00:44:51.090 To get the vote, but they didn't get their way in the end. 00:44:51.090 --> 00:44:51.480 Did they? 00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:53.500 But it was very. 00:44:54.220 --> 00:44:59.770 Difficult for, you know, Quote, unquote, polite, respectable, um, patriarchs. 00:44:59.830 --> 00:45:02.700 Who have a load of dignity, but don't share it with anybody. 00:45:03.540 --> 00:45:07.110 When they were locking up and force feeding middle-class girls, and 00:45:07.110 --> 00:45:10.890 middle-class girls were smashing windows that really, had an effect. 00:45:11.640 --> 00:45:12.450 You can be sure. 00:45:12.990 --> 00:45:15.990 If the working class or people of color do any of that? 00:45:16.020 --> 00:45:17.580 Well, they might be dismissed. 00:45:18.580 --> 00:45:20.580 But, quote unquote, nice girls from nice homes. 00:45:20.580 --> 00:45:24.390 Can't be quite dismissed in the same way and that's not fair. 00:45:24.820 --> 00:45:26.830 I don't agree with that, but it's just a fact. 00:45:26.890 --> 00:45:27.580 And so that. 00:45:28.420 --> 00:45:29.830 That positionality. 00:45:30.640 --> 00:45:36.430 Is crucial because those sorts of claims cannot be rejected quite as easily. 00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:40.700 We've seen just in the last week or two middle-class white women being 00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:43.160 arrested and brutalized by police. 00:45:44.060 --> 00:45:45.660 For opposing violence. 00:45:46.650 --> 00:45:48.390 Being met with violence themselves. 00:45:48.720 --> 00:45:49.560 And let's face it. 00:45:49.890 --> 00:45:53.190 The patriarchal double standard does have at least one use. 00:45:53.580 --> 00:45:55.800 Which is people are outraged. 00:45:56.550 --> 00:45:57.060 By that. 00:45:57.690 --> 00:45:58.500 As they should be. 00:45:59.500 --> 00:46:01.600 If a dreadlocked hippie gets some rough handling. 00:46:02.530 --> 00:46:04.900 Not everybody's going to be sympathetic. 00:46:05.500 --> 00:46:09.250 But when that same brutality is turned on white middle-class women. 00:46:09.250 --> 00:46:12.690 Well, So some people that's when it counts. 00:46:13.140 --> 00:46:13.530 So. 00:46:14.530 --> 00:46:15.370 We can use that. 00:46:15.910 --> 00:46:16.780 That's what I'm saying. 00:46:17.780 --> 00:46:20.240 Well, that was a lengthy reply to that text. 00:46:20.990 --> 00:46:22.670 What the conversation continue. 00:46:24.250 --> 00:46:25.930 And here's one last one. 00:46:26.860 --> 00:46:29.530 A couple of mates started listening and said, they're really enjoying it. 00:46:30.530 --> 00:46:34.790 Uh, the 10,000 things podcast is so fucking dope. 00:46:35.790 --> 00:46:37.830 Um, man, that's the best one. 00:46:38.700 --> 00:46:39.060 All right. 00:46:39.090 --> 00:46:40.080 Well, that's enough. 00:46:40.710 --> 00:46:41.250 from me. 00:46:41.310 --> 00:46:42.480 I hope you've enjoyed this. 00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:44.730 I hope I've done my gratitude work. 00:46:45.330 --> 00:46:47.580 Um, One last one. 00:46:47.970 --> 00:46:48.540 I listened to. 00:46:48.570 --> 00:46:50.700 How do we know when therapy is working this morning? 00:46:51.340 --> 00:46:52.480 Thought it was also very good. 00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:54.130 You guys have a great podcast on your hands? 00:46:54.130 --> 00:46:55.930 We'll thank you to that person. 00:46:56.010 --> 00:46:59.430 But the truth is despite how arrogant and self-assured, I can seem at times 00:46:59.460 --> 00:47:01.830 the truth is I do need other people. 00:47:02.190 --> 00:47:03.090 Uh, everybody does. 00:47:03.090 --> 00:47:04.200 This is not a solo effort. 00:47:04.222 --> 00:47:05.220 It's not three people. 00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:07.470 It's hundreds that have made it. 00:47:07.770 --> 00:47:10.470 Um, Uh, begin and continue. 00:47:11.480 --> 00:47:14.840 It took millions and millions and millions of people to put someone on the moon. 00:47:15.470 --> 00:47:17.690 And it takes a few hundred to get a podcast going. 00:47:17.700 --> 00:47:19.890 Another time, I'll talk about some of those shows. 00:47:19.890 --> 00:47:22.830 I mentioned that were really there for me at difficult times. 00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:24.740 That's a topic that needs to be treated. 00:47:24.790 --> 00:47:28.450 At more length for now, I hope that you've enjoyed hearing from other 00:47:28.450 --> 00:47:31.210 listeners or hearing your own words and. 00:47:32.020 --> 00:47:33.640 Understand how important they are. 00:47:34.030 --> 00:47:35.980 And understand this role of. 00:47:35.980 --> 00:47:39.700 The listener as much more than just a listener as a producer, 00:47:39.730 --> 00:47:42.940 as a member of a network. 00:47:43.330 --> 00:47:45.700 Of people that are participating. 00:47:46.210 --> 00:47:49.390 Not just in supporting this show, but we're participating 00:47:49.390 --> 00:47:50.920 in your life and vice versa. 00:47:50.920 --> 00:47:55.030 And that's really, such an important antidote to the. 00:47:56.030 --> 00:48:02.450 Ah, the nihilistic chaos of, consume, uh, Techno feudal existence. 00:48:03.049 --> 00:48:05.809 Where we are encouraged to believe that we're alone and 00:48:05.809 --> 00:48:10.159 that asserting the importance of our individual perspective is. 00:48:10.579 --> 00:48:13.249 And our individual desires is where it's at. 00:48:13.549 --> 00:48:15.859 And of course we all recognize at this point that that is 00:48:15.859 --> 00:48:17.419 not entirely where it's at. 00:48:17.839 --> 00:48:19.219 And that we need more, much more. 00:48:19.829 --> 00:48:23.369 . Consider yourself a producer and give this thought of, for value. 00:48:24.369 --> 00:48:25.719 Some consideration because. 00:48:26.519 --> 00:48:28.259 Someone encouraged us to start a Patrion. 00:48:28.259 --> 00:48:32.429 I don't think Patrion is for us, but I do think we will put the call out there. 00:48:32.609 --> 00:48:36.749 Anyone who wants to help out with stuff like show notes or. 00:48:37.419 --> 00:48:40.839 Sourcing image art, like Craig has been supplying us with 00:48:40.839 --> 00:48:42.399 photos for a couple of years now. 00:48:42.679 --> 00:48:46.939 or just nice footage we can use for short video and. 00:48:46.939 --> 00:48:48.439 Telling other people about the show. 00:48:49.439 --> 00:48:50.909 And yes. 00:48:51.359 --> 00:48:54.509 Time, talent and treasure the value for value philosophy. 00:48:55.509 --> 00:48:58.389 That if you don't ask, you may not receive. 00:48:58.389 --> 00:48:59.919 So I'm going to do the ask. 00:49:00.049 --> 00:49:01.399 We will eventually set up. 00:49:01.989 --> 00:49:04.799 Some way of handing currency. 00:49:05.729 --> 00:49:08.459 As a way of saying, Hey, I got some value out of this. 00:49:08.789 --> 00:49:10.829 And here's some value I want to return to you. 00:49:11.879 --> 00:49:14.789 I can't imagine doing any sort of monthly payment for extra 00:49:14.789 --> 00:49:16.019 episodes or anything like that. 00:49:16.019 --> 00:49:18.389 I don't want to put anything behind a pay wall. 00:49:19.389 --> 00:49:21.369 Um, That seems. 00:49:22.369 --> 00:49:23.059 I don't like that. 00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:26.569 You know, People who can't afford it, can't get access. 00:49:26.659 --> 00:49:27.409 Yeah, I don't like that. 00:49:27.619 --> 00:49:29.569 I think what we do should be for everybody. 00:49:30.319 --> 00:49:35.269 From each, according to their means to each, according to their needs. 00:49:36.029 --> 00:49:38.939 So I wouldn't want to put a minimum or a maximum on it. 00:49:39.979 --> 00:49:40.129 But 00:49:40.129 --> 00:49:41.599 do I want to support PayPal? 00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:45.209 Do I want to support, you know, Apple pay. 00:49:45.209 --> 00:49:46.289 There's no good options. 00:49:46.289 --> 00:49:46.649 Are there? 00:49:46.809 --> 00:49:47.679 It's one to think about. 00:49:47.709 --> 00:49:51.589 And if anyone has any suggestions, text the people that you've been texting. 00:49:52.309 --> 00:49:53.059 I do think. 00:49:53.749 --> 00:49:55.819 A general show, phone number would be a good idea. 00:49:56.819 --> 00:50:00.749 And you can also write to the 10,000 things at. 00:50:01.409 --> 00:50:02.579 outlook.com. 00:50:03.419 --> 00:50:06.989 And, you know, if you have any suggestion about like a, a financial 00:50:07.019 --> 00:50:08.759 mechanism then shoot it through. 00:50:09.629 --> 00:50:09.989 Okay. 00:50:09.989 --> 00:50:11.819 Well, I hope you've enjoyed that. 00:50:11.879 --> 00:50:12.179 And. 00:50:12.809 --> 00:50:13.829 That's just another. 00:50:14.789 --> 00:50:17.549 Half a dozen or so of the 10,000 things. 00:50:18.179 --> 00:50:22.499 See you for a regular app with all three of us again soon. 00:50:22.739 --> 00:50:23.879 I think next Wednesday. 00:50:24.879 --> 00:50:25.449 Thanks again. 00:50:25.539 --> 00:50:25.779 Bye.