WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.300 --> 00:00:02.100 Welcome to the Color Time Podcast. 2 00:00:02.766 --> 00:00:04.099 I am your host, Vincent Taylor. 3 00:00:04.533 --> 00:00:06.433 This is the show where we chat to professionals 4 00:00:06.433 --> 00:00:07.266 who work with color. 5 00:00:07.766 --> 00:00:09.099 Today I'm speaking to 6 00:00:09.099 --> 00:00:10.966 season colorist, John Daro. 7 00:00:13.166 --> 00:00:15.699 Seasoned, he's not, he makes him sound old. 8 00:00:15.699 --> 00:00:17.033 He's younger than me, but 9 00:00:17.033 --> 00:00:19.266 he's been in this industry 10 00:00:19.266 --> 00:00:20.466 for a long time and has 11 00:00:20.466 --> 00:00:21.833 worked on some incredible projects. 12 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:23.733 I really want to chat to him 13 00:00:23.733 --> 00:00:25.633 about working with animation 14 00:00:26.066 --> 00:00:27.966 because he's done some amazing projects. 15 00:00:28.266 --> 00:00:32.899 And I find that a bit of a dark art, so let's go. 16 00:00:35.633 --> 00:00:37.200 Take your seats because the 17 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:39.533 Hourglass is about to turn. 18 00:00:40.233 --> 00:00:43.799 We are entering the world of the micro podcast. 19 00:00:44.766 --> 00:00:45.899 Explore the craft, 20 00:00:46.299 --> 00:00:49.233 creativity, and science of professionals 21 00:00:49.500 --> 00:00:51.966 who use color to tell stories. 22 00:00:52.899 --> 00:00:56.833 Welcome to the Color Timer with Vincent Taylor. 23 00:01:06.733 --> 00:01:08.299 John, hi, thanks for joining me. 24 00:01:09.433 --> 00:01:10.666 Hey Vincent, how's it going, man? 25 00:01:11.233 --> 00:01:13.533 Good man, you look like you're doing your 26 00:01:13.533 --> 00:01:15.533 satanic worship in that dark darkness. 27 00:01:16.033 --> 00:01:18.533 I live in the dark, this is all I ever see. 28 00:01:19.066 --> 00:01:20.033 Don't take me out into the sun. 29 00:01:21.733 --> 00:01:25.333 I have bumped into you a 30 00:01:25.333 --> 00:01:26.666 number of times at different events 31 00:01:26.733 --> 00:01:29.166 and I keep threatening to get you on the podcast 32 00:01:29.333 --> 00:01:32.933 and I've been true to my threats. 33 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:36.933 So welcome, I said to you off mic, 34 00:01:37.633 --> 00:01:39.733 I don't actually have specific stuff 35 00:01:39.733 --> 00:01:40.666 I want to talk to you about. 36 00:01:40.666 --> 00:01:41.933 I want to talk to you about everything. 37 00:01:43.333 --> 00:01:45.799 But before I get in trouble with myself, 38 00:01:45.966 --> 00:01:47.466 I'm gonna start my sand timer 39 00:01:49.433 --> 00:01:50.666 to get the game show happening. 40 00:01:51.500 --> 00:01:54.333 And I've got a question for you. 41 00:01:54.333 --> 00:01:56.000 You're gonna love this one as an icebreaker. 42 00:01:56.666 --> 00:01:59.066 And try not to think about 43 00:01:59.066 --> 00:02:00.466 it too much before you answer. 44 00:02:00.833 --> 00:02:02.200 Just go knee jerk if you can. 45 00:02:03.766 --> 00:02:04.533 It's a nasty one. 46 00:02:05.500 --> 00:02:07.433 What would you say is one 47 00:02:07.433 --> 00:02:08.500 of the most beautiful things 48 00:02:08.500 --> 00:02:09.199 you've ever seen? 49 00:02:10.633 --> 00:02:14.266 Oh, sunset, Pismo Beach, done. 50 00:02:14.433 --> 00:02:14.933 Wow. 51 00:02:14.933 --> 00:02:15.566 That was easy. 52 00:02:15.566 --> 00:02:15.933 Wow. 53 00:02:16.166 --> 00:02:18.666 Wow, and was there a specific sunset? 54 00:02:20.066 --> 00:02:21.233 It was up there for my birthday 55 00:02:21.500 --> 00:02:22.566 and it was just one of those ones 56 00:02:22.566 --> 00:02:23.866 where it was like perfectly clear 57 00:02:24.166 --> 00:02:25.133 and you watch that sun just 58 00:02:25.133 --> 00:02:26.433 disappear over the horizon 59 00:02:26.666 --> 00:02:27.599 and it's just stunning. 60 00:02:28.166 --> 00:02:29.266 There's nothing better than that. 61 00:02:29.266 --> 00:02:30.033 That's life really. 62 00:02:30.233 --> 00:02:30.699 Like that's like-- 63 00:02:30.966 --> 00:02:31.866 Yeah, it is right. 64 00:02:32.433 --> 00:02:34.333 Yeah, and doing the rural moments. 65 00:02:34.333 --> 00:02:37.733 Do you, you know, in nature and things like that, 66 00:02:38.466 --> 00:02:40.233 you're a colorist, man, you're a colorist. 67 00:02:40.233 --> 00:02:41.666 So you're looking at colors all the time. 68 00:02:42.166 --> 00:02:44.966 Are you conscious of that? 69 00:02:44.966 --> 00:02:47.033 Are you, do you kind of go outside of yourself 70 00:02:47.033 --> 00:02:48.300 when you see something like a sunset 71 00:02:48.566 --> 00:02:50.633 and you go, oh, look at the graduation of that 72 00:02:50.633 --> 00:02:52.233 or look at that, or not really? 73 00:02:52.466 --> 00:02:53.633 Do you just kind of soak it up? 74 00:02:53.900 --> 00:02:55.233 It depends, in that moment, no, 75 00:02:55.233 --> 00:02:56.433 you got to be in the moment, right? 76 00:02:56.666 --> 00:02:57.566 But then there's some times 77 00:02:57.566 --> 00:02:59.366 where I had this one client 78 00:02:59.366 --> 00:03:01.033 and he kept getting on my case 79 00:03:01.033 --> 00:03:03.233 for having the skies too magenta, right? 80 00:03:03.733 --> 00:03:05.266 And I remember I was taking out the trash 81 00:03:05.666 --> 00:03:07.300 and another sunset happening. 82 00:03:07.566 --> 00:03:09.400 I looked at the sky and I took a picture 83 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:12.266 and I sent to him, I said, hey, magenta sky. 84 00:03:13.966 --> 00:03:15.233 So sometimes, yeah, of course, 85 00:03:15.466 --> 00:03:16.866 you do think about these things. 86 00:03:17.733 --> 00:03:19.133 But you try not to, right? 87 00:03:19.133 --> 00:03:20.066 You try just to, especially 88 00:03:20.066 --> 00:03:21.233 if you see something beautiful, 89 00:03:21.466 --> 00:03:22.400 try to be in the moment. 90 00:03:22.433 --> 00:03:25.333 I had a mentor once that, 91 00:03:25.333 --> 00:03:27.599 this was when I was editing a lot. 92 00:03:28.066 --> 00:03:29.599 And he said, you know, you've matured as an editor 93 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:30.766 when you can just watch a film 94 00:03:31.566 --> 00:03:32.733 and don't have that inner 95 00:03:32.733 --> 00:03:34.300 dialogue in your head thinking, 96 00:03:34.300 --> 00:03:35.599 oh, that was a nice cut, or, 97 00:03:35.599 --> 00:03:37.066 oh, that bumped a little bit. 98 00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:39.633 Yeah. So I think there's two modes 99 00:03:39.633 --> 00:03:40.833 that you can oscillate in 100 00:03:41.066 --> 00:03:42.166 and you kind of need to live in both. 101 00:03:43.133 --> 00:03:46.566 Yeah, I find, because folks ask me that, 102 00:03:46.566 --> 00:03:48.433 they say, oh, do you notice color grades in films? 103 00:03:48.866 --> 00:03:50.566 And I tend to notice them 104 00:03:50.566 --> 00:03:52.733 if I'm not enjoying the film. 105 00:03:53.633 --> 00:03:55.833 Like if I'm not in the film, you know? 106 00:03:56.833 --> 00:03:58.666 I just work with the work that no one notices. 107 00:03:59.300 --> 00:04:00.300 Yeah, yeah. 108 00:04:00.300 --> 00:04:02.433 There's exceptions to that where you, 109 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:05.533 I went to see the Joker film the other week 110 00:04:05.633 --> 00:04:07.966 and I did really enjoy it actually. 111 00:04:08.366 --> 00:04:09.866 But there was moments there where I'm going, 112 00:04:10.266 --> 00:04:12.300 oh man, that looks so beautiful. 113 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:14.266 There was moments where I 114 00:04:14.266 --> 00:04:15.666 just wanted to dive into it. 115 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:20.366 Your career, I was stalking you 116 00:04:20.366 --> 00:04:22.699 and I was looking at all the things you worked on. 117 00:04:22.699 --> 00:04:25.066 You worked on so many things. 118 00:04:26.300 --> 00:04:28.733 And I did want to talk to you about animation, 119 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:33.600 about, I've probably only graded maybe one or two 120 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:35.366 animation pieces in my whole life 121 00:04:35.366 --> 00:04:36.399 and they were really, really small. 122 00:04:37.366 --> 00:04:40.133 But I wanted to talk to you about how you approach 123 00:04:40.433 --> 00:04:43.033 an animated project versus a live action project 124 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:46.566 and the differences or the similarities. 125 00:04:47.699 --> 00:04:49.133 Sure, I mean, I think that the first thing 126 00:04:49.133 --> 00:04:52.199 to talk about there is like, that's my home, right? 127 00:04:52.866 --> 00:04:54.133 My father was in 128 00:04:54.133 --> 00:04:55.866 animation, you know, so growing up, 129 00:04:55.866 --> 00:04:57.933 the very first thing I ever did in this business 130 00:04:57.933 --> 00:04:59.133 was he brought home a cell 131 00:04:59.133 --> 00:05:00.500 and we painted it together. 132 00:05:01.166 --> 00:05:03.633 Right, and I was like, I like this, this is fun. 133 00:05:04.733 --> 00:05:07.066 And then from that, I remember him taking me 134 00:05:07.066 --> 00:05:08.266 to a telecine session 135 00:05:08.266 --> 00:05:10.100 where they would get the film back 136 00:05:10.166 --> 00:05:11.733 from the animation studio 137 00:05:11.733 --> 00:05:13.233 and they would bring it in. 138 00:05:13.233 --> 00:05:14.166 And they'd have to tweak the color 139 00:05:14.166 --> 00:05:15.566 because you have a bunch of animators 140 00:05:15.566 --> 00:05:16.966 and nothing exactly matches. 141 00:05:17.933 --> 00:05:20.366 And I remember walking into the telecine bay 142 00:05:20.366 --> 00:05:21.199 and looking at that going, 143 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:22.333 it looks like Starship Enterprise. 144 00:05:22.833 --> 00:05:23.733 That's what I want to do. 145 00:05:24.366 --> 00:05:24.699 Wow. 146 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:26.366 And I also remember going, 147 00:05:26.366 --> 00:05:28.133 you can have whatever you want for lunch, 148 00:05:28.500 --> 00:05:29.533 like whatever you want. 149 00:05:30.533 --> 00:05:31.566 It's like, yeah, you can get whatever, 150 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:32.433 I'll have a hamburger. 151 00:05:33.699 --> 00:05:35.433 But I thought that was very, very, very slick. 152 00:05:36.233 --> 00:05:38.366 So, you know, it being the family business, 153 00:05:38.766 --> 00:05:40.633 I think that I'm predisposed 154 00:05:40.633 --> 00:05:41.699 to being able to, you know, 155 00:05:41.733 --> 00:05:43.033 talk the talk, speak the jargon. 156 00:05:44.466 --> 00:05:46.333 But also if you think about color grading 157 00:05:46.333 --> 00:05:48.033 and what we do often, 158 00:05:48.033 --> 00:05:49.466 and I'm not talking about just setting a base look, 159 00:05:49.466 --> 00:05:51.933 but the nitty gritty of it, the tracking shapes, 160 00:05:52.533 --> 00:05:55.933 setting keyframes, doing dynamics to connect things 161 00:05:55.933 --> 00:05:57.333 so that they don't bump editorially. 162 00:05:58.066 --> 00:05:59.600 A lot of that goes back to 163 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:00.733 those original dope sheets 164 00:06:00.733 --> 00:06:03.033 that I'd watched my dad doing on the kitchen table, 165 00:06:03.533 --> 00:06:05.300 where he'd be, you know, he'd have the audio track 166 00:06:05.300 --> 00:06:06.233 and he would, you know, 167 00:06:06.466 --> 00:06:08.000 reverse forward, reverse forward, 168 00:06:08.133 --> 00:06:11.600 and basically be timing out the animation. 169 00:06:11.866 --> 00:06:13.666 So like, okay, this is gonna take six frames. 170 00:06:14.133 --> 00:06:15.633 And he'd be just setting the keyframes 171 00:06:15.633 --> 00:06:16.966 and he'd send it off to the in-betweeners 172 00:06:16.966 --> 00:06:18.600 and they would build the animation. 173 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:20.066 It's not a whole lot 174 00:06:20.066 --> 00:06:21.566 different than what we do right now, 175 00:06:21.566 --> 00:06:23.899 where we have mattes and we're tracking them 176 00:06:23.899 --> 00:06:26.333 and we're, you know, enhancing certain areas, 177 00:06:26.333 --> 00:06:27.699 making certain areas recede, 178 00:06:27.699 --> 00:06:29.300 we're setting those keyframes and then saying, 179 00:06:29.300 --> 00:06:31.066 All right, computer, you're the in-betweener. 180 00:06:31.333 --> 00:06:33.033 Figure out between these 181 00:06:33.033 --> 00:06:34.100 keyframes what it would do. 182 00:06:35.866 --> 00:06:37.766 So I think that it was a really good foundation 183 00:06:38.066 --> 00:06:39.433 for me, you know, growing up. 184 00:06:39.633 --> 00:06:40.266 It's funny, because it was something 185 00:06:40.266 --> 00:06:41.399 I used to be embarrassed of. 186 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:42.566 You never wanted to be a Nepo baby, 187 00:06:42.566 --> 00:06:44.266 but now in my older age, I'm like, 188 00:06:44.833 --> 00:06:46.733 "No, that was the best upbringing, 189 00:06:46.966 --> 00:06:48.966 "the best childhood I could have possibly had." 190 00:06:49.300 --> 00:06:49.733 Yeah. 191 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:50.833 So, you know-- 192 00:06:51.699 --> 00:06:53.300 That specific memory though, 193 00:06:53.300 --> 00:06:55.000 that you started just a moment ago, 194 00:06:55.066 --> 00:06:56.233 that's beautiful, man. 195 00:06:56.566 --> 00:06:58.199 That is so lovely. No doubt, no doubt. 196 00:06:59.066 --> 00:07:00.233 You know, and it's funny too, 197 00:07:00.233 --> 00:07:03.133 because the big ones that I remember of him 198 00:07:03.133 --> 00:07:04.933 were Heathcliff and then the Ninja Turtles. 199 00:07:05.433 --> 00:07:07.766 So being a child of the 80s, 200 00:07:08.266 --> 00:07:09.566 having your dad work on Ninja Turtles, 201 00:07:09.566 --> 00:07:10.566 that was pretty cool. 202 00:07:11.066 --> 00:07:12.133 Every single Ninja Turtle 203 00:07:12.133 --> 00:07:13.166 toy you could ever imagine, 204 00:07:13.666 --> 00:07:16.066 all I wanted was like a Transformer, a GI Joe, 205 00:07:16.066 --> 00:07:17.466 but no, no, it's always just 206 00:07:17.466 --> 00:07:19.433 the free ones from the studio. 207 00:07:21.300 --> 00:07:22.133 But, you know, to your 208 00:07:22.133 --> 00:07:24.866 point about grading animation 209 00:07:25.066 --> 00:07:27.966 versus live action, the two big things is, 210 00:07:28.133 --> 00:07:29.733 live action, you're working with the DP, 211 00:07:29.933 --> 00:07:30.766 you're setting a look, 212 00:07:30.766 --> 00:07:31.833 you're setting a vibe, right? 213 00:07:32.333 --> 00:07:34.033 Typically in animation, that stuff has been done 214 00:07:34.133 --> 00:07:36.133 by the art director very early on, 215 00:07:36.166 --> 00:07:37.866 and it's been a three year process. 216 00:07:37.866 --> 00:07:38.966 So they've been living with this. 217 00:07:39.300 --> 00:07:41.600 So it's more about getting the tires 218 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:43.333 like the ones on their car, right? 219 00:07:43.699 --> 00:07:45.533 I just want tires like the ones on my car, 220 00:07:45.533 --> 00:07:47.266 please just get me to what 221 00:07:47.266 --> 00:07:48.566 I've been seeing for so long. 222 00:07:48.966 --> 00:07:51.166 So one tip that I can recommend is, 223 00:07:51.166 --> 00:07:52.699 if you can start early on and make sure 224 00:07:52.699 --> 00:07:54.133 that you're part of the calibration process, 225 00:07:54.133 --> 00:07:55.933 make sure you're part of the color pipeline process 226 00:07:55.933 --> 00:07:57.933 so that everybody is on the same page. 227 00:07:58.266 --> 00:08:00.666 So there are no surprises when you get to final DI. 228 00:08:01.133 --> 00:08:04.333 I think that's step number 229 00:08:04.333 --> 00:08:05.466 one and very, very critical. 230 00:08:06.066 --> 00:08:07.366 I think the other thing is, 231 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:09.133 if you can work with the animation studio 232 00:08:09.366 --> 00:08:12.666 and get the matte packs in an efficient way, 233 00:08:12.666 --> 00:08:13.300 make sure that you're 234 00:08:13.300 --> 00:08:14.833 consistent with the matte naming 235 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:16.766 so that it's easy to throw 236 00:08:16.766 --> 00:08:18.666 grades, easy to organize. 237 00:08:18.966 --> 00:08:21.899 One thing that we do on almost every animation show 238 00:08:22.766 --> 00:08:24.233 is we take the key characters 239 00:08:24.666 --> 00:08:26.133 and we give them categories, right? 240 00:08:26.133 --> 00:08:28.100 So then we can sort in the Baselight, 241 00:08:28.466 --> 00:08:30.533 show me all of the shots of this character 242 00:08:30.733 --> 00:08:31.866 and make sure they're all consistent 243 00:08:32.533 --> 00:08:33.633 throughout the entire process. 244 00:08:34.633 --> 00:08:36.466 But then you start taking some live action 245 00:08:36.466 --> 00:08:39.333 that maybe is heavy visual effects based, right? 246 00:08:39.899 --> 00:08:41.066 And you have all of those 247 00:08:41.066 --> 00:08:44.233 mattes and it's photo realistic, 248 00:08:44.366 --> 00:08:45.933 but it's still done in a computer. 249 00:08:45.933 --> 00:08:46.733 If you think about it, it's 250 00:08:46.733 --> 00:08:47.799 photo realistic animation. 251 00:08:48.566 --> 00:08:50.566 So when I'm talking about like a heavy VFX film, 252 00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:51.933 there's not a whole lot of 253 00:08:51.933 --> 00:08:53.133 difference between those two. 254 00:08:54.466 --> 00:08:55.500 But I think that the other thing 255 00:08:55.500 --> 00:08:56.833 that from the live action side, 256 00:08:58.066 --> 00:09:00.366 there's color grading and there's color correction. 257 00:09:00.766 --> 00:09:03.433 You don't really have as much color correction 258 00:09:03.433 --> 00:09:05.733 and animation as you do in live action. 259 00:09:05.733 --> 00:09:08.433 You don't get a cloud and animation that comes by 260 00:09:08.433 --> 00:09:10.766 and makes everything a little desaturated and dark. 261 00:09:11.466 --> 00:09:12.700 And you have to fight that a little bit. 262 00:09:13.133 --> 00:09:15.233 So I think that there are differences, 263 00:09:15.566 --> 00:09:17.433 but at the end of the day, it's still the same. 264 00:09:17.433 --> 00:09:18.833 You're still trying to tell stories in both. 265 00:09:19.299 --> 00:09:21.633 And you just want to make sure that nothing bumps 266 00:09:21.633 --> 00:09:23.066 and that everything is consistent 267 00:09:23.366 --> 00:09:24.866 and that it's beautiful, right? 268 00:09:24.899 --> 00:09:25.833 Yeah, yeah. 269 00:09:27.333 --> 00:09:32.166 And this is, I'm gonna prefix 270 00:09:32.166 --> 00:09:33.933 it with, excuse my ignorance, 271 00:09:34.133 --> 00:09:37.533 but in my brain, I kind of see, okay, 272 00:09:37.899 --> 00:09:39.633 they've designed the shot of 273 00:09:39.633 --> 00:09:40.866 the scene and the animation, 274 00:09:41.333 --> 00:09:43.299 they put the colors in, they put everything in. 275 00:09:43.933 --> 00:09:45.466 Isn't it how it should be? 276 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:47.233 Why do you have to then 277 00:09:47.233 --> 00:09:48.399 mess with it on top of that? 278 00:09:49.466 --> 00:09:51.633 Because you never done, Vincent, you're never done. 279 00:09:51.866 --> 00:09:52.899 You just run out of time. 280 00:09:54.266 --> 00:09:58.366 So even the art directors 281 00:09:58.533 --> 00:10:00.866 and the directors of the animated films, right? 282 00:10:01.566 --> 00:10:03.333 there's always something that 283 00:10:03.333 --> 00:10:04.633 could have been better, right? 284 00:10:04.633 --> 00:10:06.100 And that's really what finishing is. 285 00:10:06.533 --> 00:10:08.000 This is the last step before 286 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:09.100 it goes out into the world. 287 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:11.466 So if you think of it from that point of view, 288 00:10:12.133 --> 00:10:13.333 often it's, well, what 289 00:10:13.333 --> 00:10:15.266 didn't you get in that render? 290 00:10:16.333 --> 00:10:18.666 Tell me your deepest desire, right? 291 00:10:19.033 --> 00:10:19.966 Maybe I can do it, maybe I 292 00:10:19.966 --> 00:10:21.500 can't, but let's take a crack. 293 00:10:21.500 --> 00:10:22.866 Do you got five minutes? Let's try to spend. 294 00:10:23.533 --> 00:10:25.100 I remember a few animated films. 295 00:10:25.100 --> 00:10:28.066 Often there was the director was saying 296 00:10:28.066 --> 00:10:30.466 that the main character was too angular, right? 297 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:32.066 Too harsh, right? 298 00:10:32.733 --> 00:10:33.799 And I don't know if that was the lighting 299 00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:34.799 or if it was built into the model, 300 00:10:35.133 --> 00:10:37.866 but one of the things that we went ahead and did 301 00:10:37.866 --> 00:10:39.766 was we started to take that 302 00:10:39.766 --> 00:10:42.166 and using the texture blend 303 00:10:42.433 --> 00:10:47.466 in Baselight, basically blur part of the image, 304 00:10:47.666 --> 00:10:49.299 composite it on top, right? 305 00:10:49.466 --> 00:10:51.000 And then take certain 306 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:53.000 frequencies and knock them back. 307 00:10:53.866 --> 00:10:54.533 And then at that point, 308 00:10:54.533 --> 00:10:56.066 then you're tracking the face 309 00:10:56.166 --> 00:10:57.766 and comping that back on top. 310 00:10:57.766 --> 00:10:59.399 So in a weird way, it's like the final composite. 311 00:11:00.700 --> 00:11:02.033 Yeah. Yeah. 312 00:11:02.799 --> 00:11:03.766 I was something stuck in my 313 00:11:03.766 --> 00:11:05.799 head about color correction 314 00:11:05.833 --> 00:11:07.633 versus grading. 315 00:11:08.466 --> 00:11:10.299 So for something like, you 316 00:11:10.299 --> 00:11:11.766 know, you've got a Scooby-Doo movie 317 00:11:11.766 --> 00:11:13.600 and you've got Shaggy's 318 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:14.766 shirt or something like that, 319 00:11:14.866 --> 00:11:16.733 which is X color. 320 00:11:18.100 --> 00:11:19.600 Would that be then consistent 321 00:11:20.266 --> 00:11:21.233 and you wouldn't have to 322 00:11:21.233 --> 00:11:23.066 worry about getting that same tone 323 00:11:23.066 --> 00:11:24.799 or do you still have to? 324 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:27.266 You hope it is, right? 325 00:11:27.266 --> 00:11:29.299 But the thing is that, again, you 326 00:11:29.299 --> 00:11:31.066 have many different animators working on it. 327 00:11:31.433 --> 00:11:32.500 And if you think about-- 328 00:11:34.066 --> 00:11:35.633 there's 2D animation, right? 329 00:11:35.933 --> 00:11:37.866 And then there's 3D animation. 330 00:11:38.366 --> 00:11:40.233 And 3D animation really kind 331 00:11:40.233 --> 00:11:42.333 of works to the same physics 332 00:11:42.566 --> 00:11:45.333 that normal, traditional live action works. 333 00:11:45.833 --> 00:11:46.833 You have lighting. 334 00:11:47.433 --> 00:11:48.633 That lighting is bouncing off 335 00:11:48.633 --> 00:11:49.833 various things in the scene. 336 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:52.899 That light then bounces onto a shaggy shirt. 337 00:11:52.899 --> 00:11:55.100 And then it bounces back to the virtual camera. 338 00:11:55.766 --> 00:11:59.299 So there are things that will cause it to be what 339 00:11:59.299 --> 00:12:01.399 we call off model, right? So here's 340 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:03.399 the model. This is what Shaggy shirt color is. This 341 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:05.700 needs to be the same across the board, 342 00:12:06.033 --> 00:12:07.766 but you also want it to be integrated in the 343 00:12:07.766 --> 00:12:11.533 environment. So you do have correction to 344 00:12:11.533 --> 00:12:14.966 do to make sure that, you know, these characters, 345 00:12:14.966 --> 00:12:16.799 these iconic characters that we've lived with 346 00:12:16.866 --> 00:12:20.000 for, you know, 50, 60 years still represent as 347 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:23.066 themselves, but are also integrated into 348 00:12:23.066 --> 00:12:25.000 the story that you're telling into the environment 349 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:27.100 that they're playing in, in that particular scene. 350 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:32.200 This is a question I ask a lot because I get 351 00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:35.200 overwhelmed sometimes when a project starts. 352 00:12:35.833 --> 00:12:38.733 Where do you start? So sticking in the world of 353 00:12:38.733 --> 00:12:41.500 animation, what's, what's the first step 354 00:12:41.500 --> 00:12:43.200 for John Daro? 355 00:12:43.433 --> 00:12:44.399 I think it's different for 356 00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:45.799 different, different projects, right? 357 00:12:46.233 --> 00:12:47.266 Obviously, the best thing, 358 00:12:47.266 --> 00:12:48.866 And I know that this is beating a dead horse 359 00:12:48.866 --> 00:12:50.500 because everyone says this, but start, start 360 00:12:50.500 --> 00:12:51.066 super early. 361 00:12:51.066 --> 00:12:52.366 It starts in pre-production, right? 362 00:12:52.866 --> 00:12:54.266 Whether it's an animated show 363 00:12:54.266 --> 00:12:55.766 or if it's a live action show. 364 00:12:55.766 --> 00:12:56.866 If it's a live action show, you're starting with 365 00:12:56.866 --> 00:12:58.433 hair and makeup tests, usually lens tests, 366 00:12:58.433 --> 00:12:59.100 that kind of thing. 367 00:12:59.500 --> 00:13:01.100 And you start to build the look 368 00:13:01.100 --> 00:13:02.066 with the director of photography. 369 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:04.399 And how I tend to do it, 370 00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:07.666 is I have a web page that 371 00:13:07.666 --> 00:13:10.500 we start with V1 look, right? 372 00:13:11.233 --> 00:13:13.000 Typically, if it's like a film look, let's say, 373 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:15.833 you start with a pretty generic Kodak or Fuji 374 00:13:16.133 --> 00:13:19.366 or something that's pretty standard, 375 00:13:19.366 --> 00:13:20.966 and then you build from there, right? 376 00:13:21.433 --> 00:13:23.266 If it's in animation, you 377 00:13:23.266 --> 00:13:25.033 kind of tend to work in ACES 378 00:13:25.033 --> 00:13:25.866 just because it's easy, 379 00:13:25.866 --> 00:13:27.700 and if you have a lot of different animation houses 380 00:13:28.533 --> 00:13:29.233 working on the same 381 00:13:29.233 --> 00:13:31.266 project, it's really simple to say, 382 00:13:31.266 --> 00:13:33.566 Hey, everybody work with this set. 383 00:13:34.033 --> 00:13:34.866 It's built into most 384 00:13:34.866 --> 00:13:36.433 software. Everybody's on board. 385 00:13:38.733 --> 00:13:39.600 So from there, you can start 386 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:41.000 to build that color pipeline, 387 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:44.399 and that's really critical to get that early on. 388 00:13:45.500 --> 00:13:47.233 In animated shows, I'll typically, 389 00:13:47.733 --> 00:13:49.366 on the ones especially through the studio, 390 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:51.133 I'll be involved in the lighting reviews, 391 00:13:51.866 --> 00:13:53.933 and that was very, very critical 392 00:13:53.933 --> 00:13:56.233 because you can get a lot of work done upfront 393 00:13:56.566 --> 00:13:59.166 and save time on the backend, right, 394 00:13:59.466 --> 00:14:01.333 by making those corrections in that render 395 00:14:01.633 --> 00:14:02.466 before it comes out. 396 00:14:02.966 --> 00:14:05.466 Another really useful thing, this is back in the 397 00:14:05.466 --> 00:14:08.133 days of 3D, it's not so important anymore 398 00:14:08.133 --> 00:14:11.000 because we don't tend not to do stereo films as 399 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:14.466 much as we used to. But if you see something like 400 00:14:14.466 --> 00:14:16.899 a lens flare and you say that could be a problem, 401 00:14:16.899 --> 00:14:18.899 make sure that that is the same in each eye so 402 00:14:18.899 --> 00:14:20.200 that you don't get retinal conflict. 403 00:14:20.700 --> 00:14:21.466 Catching that kind of stuff 404 00:14:21.466 --> 00:14:23.200 early is obviously a benefit. 405 00:14:24.466 --> 00:14:26.466 With the live action, then 406 00:14:26.466 --> 00:14:27.799 we get into dailies, right? 407 00:14:28.100 --> 00:14:30.433 And I'll usually supervise the first week of 408 00:14:30.433 --> 00:14:31.666 dailies, make sure that everybody's on 409 00:14:31.666 --> 00:14:34.466 the same page, and also work with the studio to 410 00:14:34.466 --> 00:14:35.666 make sure it's like, no, it's okay. 411 00:14:35.866 --> 00:14:36.933 This is going to be a... 412 00:14:38.266 --> 00:14:40.066 It's dark on the dailies, but don't worry. 413 00:14:41.500 --> 00:14:43.266 We built in a stop down under the LUT. 414 00:14:43.299 --> 00:14:44.233 Here, if we take this off, 415 00:14:44.233 --> 00:14:45.399 look, you have a ton of range. 416 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:46.233 It's a very thick neck. 417 00:14:46.233 --> 00:14:47.200 You got everything you need. 418 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:47.600 It's okay. 419 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:49.466 Totally, right? 420 00:14:49.966 --> 00:14:50.166 Yeah. 421 00:14:50.433 --> 00:14:51.466 And then once that's rolling, 422 00:14:51.899 --> 00:14:53.799 then I kind of disappear for a bit, right? 423 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:54.333 Right. 424 00:14:54.333 --> 00:14:54.366 Right. 425 00:14:54.366 --> 00:14:54.399 Right. 426 00:14:54.866 --> 00:14:57.600 Gets into editorial sometimes, you know, 427 00:14:58.266 --> 00:14:59.966 in editorial there'll be some things, 428 00:14:59.966 --> 00:15:01.466 hey, can you send this one scene? 429 00:15:01.466 --> 00:15:02.633 Can you just make sure that this is, 430 00:15:02.633 --> 00:15:03.866 can you smooth this out and send it back? 431 00:15:04.166 --> 00:15:07.633 Just to make sure that the edits kind of are happy 432 00:15:07.633 --> 00:15:08.533 and that they're gonna get 433 00:15:08.533 --> 00:15:09.633 what they want in the final. 434 00:15:10.533 --> 00:15:11.633 So we'll go through that. 435 00:15:11.633 --> 00:15:12.833 We'll do preview versions, 436 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:15.100 especially for, you know, audience reaction, 437 00:15:15.100 --> 00:15:15.633 that kind of thing. 438 00:15:15.633 --> 00:15:17.466 It's usually a very quick pass that we'll hit 439 00:15:17.833 --> 00:15:18.600 maybe a day or two. 440 00:15:19.633 --> 00:15:21.133 One thing that I like working on the Baselight 441 00:15:21.433 --> 00:15:24.966 is being able to take that and, you know, 442 00:15:24.966 --> 00:15:26.500 back in the day, you used to throw away that work, 443 00:15:26.500 --> 00:15:27.366 but if you can convert 444 00:15:27.366 --> 00:15:28.566 that into your working space, 445 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:30.933 a lot of that work can track to the final. 446 00:15:31.233 --> 00:15:32.566 So that's a benefit that's-- 447 00:15:33.233 --> 00:15:35.433 I missed that or I zoned out. 448 00:15:35.433 --> 00:15:36.166 What do you mean by that? 449 00:15:36.533 --> 00:15:38.266 Okay, so like, for example, like, you know, 450 00:15:38.933 --> 00:15:40.133 15 years ago or so, right, 451 00:15:40.133 --> 00:15:41.166 you get these preview versions, 452 00:15:41.166 --> 00:15:43.200 but you're working in 709, you know, 453 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:45.433 off of like a typical like, well, OMF Avid output. 454 00:15:45.433 --> 00:15:46.633 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 455 00:15:46.633 --> 00:15:48.266 Yeah, nowadays we can kind of convert that, 456 00:15:48.266 --> 00:15:49.533 put it into the working space. 457 00:15:50.033 --> 00:15:52.933 You might not have the range, but you sometimes 458 00:15:52.933 --> 00:15:55.566 will reconform and actually match the edit 459 00:15:55.566 --> 00:15:56.933 and be tracking that 460 00:15:56.933 --> 00:15:58.166 through to make a preview version. 461 00:15:59.466 --> 00:16:02.700 But in doing that process, if you can do as much 462 00:16:02.700 --> 00:16:05.766 upfront that will get to the final, that's 463 00:16:05.766 --> 00:16:07.433 obviously the best move, right? 464 00:16:07.433 --> 00:16:09.799 Because you don't want to just do work that is for 465 00:16:09.799 --> 00:16:10.933 a one-off screening and then throw 466 00:16:10.933 --> 00:16:11.600 it away, right? 467 00:16:11.933 --> 00:16:13.433 Everything should always be 468 00:16:13.433 --> 00:16:14.833 gaining towards that final. 469 00:16:15.866 --> 00:16:18.466 Every minute that you spend should be going towards 470 00:16:18.466 --> 00:16:20.766 the direction of the director and 471 00:16:20.766 --> 00:16:22.133 DP want to get to at the end. 472 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:24.566 And if you're putting in the work, if you can track 473 00:16:24.566 --> 00:16:26.566 that all the way through, that's 474 00:16:26.566 --> 00:16:27.133 a huge benefit. 475 00:16:28.833 --> 00:16:30.933 And then you get to the final grade and then 476 00:16:30.933 --> 00:16:33.299 everything from that point, hopefully you 477 00:16:33.299 --> 00:16:35.433 kind of had made a lot of those decisions upfront 478 00:16:35.433 --> 00:16:38.000 where it's sitting in a nice spot 479 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:39.200 that everyone agrees on. 480 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:41.733 And if you can get that balance done very quickly, 481 00:16:41.966 --> 00:16:43.533 then you can get to the what I call 482 00:16:43.533 --> 00:16:45.466 like the icing on the cake, the tweezing pass, the 483 00:16:45.466 --> 00:16:47.766 stuff that's really value add, sharpening 484 00:16:47.899 --> 00:16:52.266 eyes, working on bringing out key story moments and 485 00:16:52.266 --> 00:16:53.899 enhancing certain elements. 486 00:16:53.899 --> 00:16:57.166 Maybe there's a color value that is kind of like a 487 00:16:57.166 --> 00:16:58.600 character and you can kind of start 488 00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:00.933 to work that through and build a theme. 489 00:17:01.866 --> 00:17:03.866 And all of that work goes on 490 00:17:03.866 --> 00:17:05.033 top of that initial balance. 491 00:17:05.266 --> 00:17:07.000 So the faster you can get to that point, I think 492 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:10.200 the better value add is there. 493 00:17:11.133 --> 00:17:11.333 Yeah. 494 00:17:12.966 --> 00:17:14.200 You mentioned 3D and how 495 00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:16.900 it's not as common anymore. 496 00:17:16.966 --> 00:17:20.233 I mean, are you still doing 3D passes or? 497 00:17:20.533 --> 00:17:21.266 We do. 498 00:17:21.266 --> 00:17:21.533 We do. 499 00:17:21.966 --> 00:17:23.266 It's typically for 500 00:17:23.266 --> 00:17:24.799 international markets these days. 501 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:27.366 And you know, that's a it's a 502 00:17:27.366 --> 00:17:28.966 shame because I'm a big fan, right? 503 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:29.900 I think that-- Oh, you are? 504 00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:31.533 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 505 00:17:31.533 --> 00:17:32.733 Now that was early days, I 506 00:17:32.733 --> 00:17:34.366 was early money on the 3D game. 507 00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:37.533 But I think that going forward, 508 00:17:37.700 --> 00:17:40.799 we're gonna be more headset driven like HMD, 509 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:43.333 Vision Pro, or even augmented reality 510 00:17:43.333 --> 00:17:45.666 as far as the stereo work goes. 511 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:48.599 So I think that for the theatrical experience, 512 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:49.700 it's still huge, it just 513 00:17:49.700 --> 00:17:51.099 never really took off in the home, 514 00:17:51.433 --> 00:17:53.000 the glasses were always kind of funky, 515 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:54.200 they were never charged, right? 516 00:17:54.200 --> 00:17:55.766 They always like went on the fritz. 517 00:17:55.766 --> 00:17:57.000 So it just never really caught on 518 00:17:57.533 --> 00:17:58.599 like it probably could have. 519 00:17:59.700 --> 00:18:02.200 But I still think that there's nothing like that, 520 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:03.933 you go to some of these IMAX theaters 521 00:18:03.933 --> 00:18:06.500 and it's completely immersive and you put that on, 522 00:18:06.733 --> 00:18:08.533 it's like, wow, that's that extra dimension. 523 00:18:09.333 --> 00:18:11.533 I consider that in the sound world, 524 00:18:11.533 --> 00:18:13.933 you have stereo mono sound, right? 525 00:18:13.933 --> 00:18:14.633 But then you have Atmos 526 00:18:14.633 --> 00:18:15.900 and Atmos is so much better. 527 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:17.666 That's like our version of Atmos. 528 00:18:18.133 --> 00:18:19.066 That's so interesting. 529 00:18:21.099 --> 00:18:23.099 Once again, people are 530 00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:24.099 gonna get sick of me saying this 531 00:18:24.099 --> 00:18:25.200 about me breaking my own rules, 532 00:18:25.233 --> 00:18:29.333 but my time has run out, so we're out of time. 533 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:32.133 But bonus round, because I 534 00:18:32.133 --> 00:18:33.233 always have all these extra 535 00:18:33.233 --> 00:18:34.533 things that pop into my brain. 536 00:18:36.433 --> 00:18:39.933 I don't know how else to say this, 537 00:18:40.166 --> 00:18:42.099 but you've got your fingers in a lot of pies, 538 00:18:42.099 --> 00:18:44.566 like you're a member of different societies 539 00:18:44.900 --> 00:18:48.000 and you're really active in the industry. 540 00:18:49.733 --> 00:18:50.433 This is a pretty broad 541 00:18:50.433 --> 00:18:52.099 question, but what's going on? 542 00:18:52.099 --> 00:18:53.400 What do you see going on in 543 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:54.299 the industry at the moment? 544 00:18:55.733 --> 00:18:57.433 That is kind of peaking 545 00:18:57.433 --> 00:18:59.000 your interest or concerning you 546 00:18:59.066 --> 00:19:00.966 or standing out, I guess. 547 00:19:01.366 --> 00:19:04.333 No concerns other than I think that there's a lot 548 00:19:04.333 --> 00:19:05.133 of different outlets. 549 00:19:05.133 --> 00:19:06.200 It's never been a better time 550 00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:07.966 to be an aspiring filmmaker. 551 00:19:07.966 --> 00:19:09.333 maker, the democratization 552 00:19:09.333 --> 00:19:10.733 of the technology is huge. 553 00:19:10.733 --> 00:19:12.099 You can really make a film with 554 00:19:12.099 --> 00:19:14.000 very minimal equipment these days. 555 00:19:15.033 --> 00:19:16.766 And the software has never been cheaper, right? 556 00:19:17.066 --> 00:19:19.466 You can put together a pretty good kit for, you 557 00:19:19.466 --> 00:19:21.133 know, back when I started, it was like, 558 00:19:21.133 --> 00:19:23.366 you know, you needed about, you know, 700 grand to 559 00:19:23.366 --> 00:19:24.833 a million to get going, right? 560 00:19:24.833 --> 00:19:28.900 Now, you know, a pretty powerful laptop and, you 561 00:19:28.900 --> 00:19:31.433 know, decent camera that you can pick 562 00:19:31.433 --> 00:19:33.299 up for, you know, $10,000 bucks, 563 00:19:33.299 --> 00:19:35.000 you're pretty much off and off and rolling. 564 00:19:36.233 --> 00:19:37.200 So that's huge, right? 565 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:38.633 But I think that with 566 00:19:38.633 --> 00:19:39.866 that, you have a lot of noise. 567 00:19:40.299 --> 00:19:43.333 So now it's a lot harder to do something original 568 00:19:43.333 --> 00:19:46.400 because there's so many people doing, making 569 00:19:46.566 --> 00:19:47.799 content, which is great, right? 570 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:51.466 That's what we do. We tell stories. But I think 571 00:19:51.466 --> 00:19:54.066 that something that is going to be a really huge 572 00:19:54.066 --> 00:19:58.533 benefit to getting more work done efficiently is 573 00:19:58.533 --> 00:20:01.599 some of these machine vision tools. And when I 574 00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:02.833 talk about that, I'm talking about auto 575 00:20:02.833 --> 00:20:07.333 segmentation or some beauty type work that can 576 00:20:07.333 --> 00:20:10.066 kind of auto detect the faces and be able to track 577 00:20:10.066 --> 00:20:12.599 with it as it moves around in 3D space. 578 00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:17.599 So I'm really excited for that. One thing as a 579 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:19.566 society that we need to kind of do as a 580 00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:24.166 colorist group, I want to start working with the 581 00:20:24.166 --> 00:20:28.566 Academy, the ASC, the different guilds, 582 00:20:28.966 --> 00:20:31.466 and SMPTE and kind of come up with a standard. 583 00:20:31.466 --> 00:20:33.066 Because right now it's the wild, wild west for 584 00:20:33.066 --> 00:20:35.599 these models. And as we start to integrate them 585 00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:37.666 into our tools, it would be really nice to kind 586 00:20:37.666 --> 00:20:39.866 of standardize on something so that when we're 587 00:20:39.866 --> 00:20:42.366 training these models that take a ton of time 588 00:20:42.566 --> 00:20:45.900 and energy to put into them, we want to make sure 589 00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:47.566 that they're usable across multiple different 590 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:50.666 platforms. So very similar to how like a shader has 591 00:20:50.666 --> 00:20:52.666 been used in the past, I kind of look at these 592 00:20:52.700 --> 00:20:57.400 different models as sort of like the new v2.0 593 00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:00.400 shader. And so if we can start to kind of 594 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:02.433 standardize that and be able to use them across 595 00:21:02.433 --> 00:21:05.566 platforms, from visual effects all the way through 596 00:21:05.566 --> 00:21:08.799 to finishing, it's going to be a really powerful 597 00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:11.099 tool and kind of get us to that next level 598 00:21:11.900 --> 00:21:16.033 of color grading. Yeah, wow. I am I'm going to 599 00:21:16.033 --> 00:21:18.466 finish off with a pretty easy one. They've all 600 00:21:18.466 --> 00:21:22.400 been pretty easy. You're an 80s boy. Your favorite, 601 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:25.099 your favorite film from the 80s?. Oh, oh, gosh, 602 00:21:25.099 --> 00:21:26.799 that's that's that's a loaded one. But you know, 603 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:29.066 I'm a big fan of ET, ET is fantastic also came 604 00:21:29.066 --> 00:21:31.766 out in 1982. So did I. So I think that that's a 605 00:21:31.766 --> 00:21:34.500 that's maybe why but that one's great Goonies. 606 00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:38.666 Come on Gremlin. I see they're doing another 607 00:21:38.666 --> 00:21:40.133 Goonies film. Did I read that right? 608 00:21:40.866 --> 00:21:43.433 Yeah, I think that was a hoax. And it was kind of 609 00:21:43.433 --> 00:21:49.366 like, yes. Oh, man. You have a ticket sold. Do it. 610 00:21:49.900 --> 00:21:55.099 I think it was. Yeah. John, thank you so much. 611 00:21:56.566 --> 00:21:59.200 The time goes so fast. But but 612 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:01.566 yeah, absolute pleasure to chat to you. 613 00:22:01.900 --> 00:22:04.366 I'll see you around Vincent. Cheers, mate. Cheers. 614 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:08.333 Cheers. John, thank you so much for joining me on 615 00:22:08.333 --> 00:22:11.266 the podcast. It's a great chat. And as usual, 616 00:22:11.666 --> 00:22:13.366 you know, I had to stop on the record and we kept 617 00:22:13.366 --> 00:22:15.166 talking about so many cool things afterwards. But 618 00:22:16.466 --> 00:22:19.799 look, yeah, thanks a lot. It was it was cool. Thank 619 00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:22.299 you to you, the listener, for joining me 620 00:22:22.299 --> 00:22:26.099 as well. And for those crazy people who actually 621 00:22:26.099 --> 00:22:29.566 bought color time and t shirts. Thank you so much. 622 00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:32.799 If you want one, there's a link somewhere in the 623 00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:35.466 show notes or something. I think there's even 624 00:22:35.466 --> 00:22:40.133 hats now. It's going crazy. But but joking aside, 625 00:22:40.133 --> 00:22:42.000 thank you so much for supporting the show. It 626 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:47.033 means a like. It means like it means a lot. I quite 627 00:22:47.033 --> 00:22:50.933 like that. It means a like. It means a lot to me. 628 00:22:51.833 --> 00:22:55.466 And and thank you to my executive producer 629 00:22:55.466 --> 00:22:59.466 MixingLight.com. If you are watching this or 630 00:22:59.466 --> 00:23:00.900 listening to this on their website, you already 631 00:23:00.900 --> 00:23:03.066 know what they do. If you don't check them out, 632 00:23:03.066 --> 00:23:05.766 MixingLight.com. They can help you all things in color 633 00:23:05.766 --> 00:23:07.700 And yeah, look, I'll see you on the next 634 00:23:07.700 --> 00:23:09.433 one. Thank you so much. See ya. 635 00:23:09.433 --> 00:23:14.633 The color timer, a micro podcast experience.