Matt Abrahams: Hi.
Matt here.
Our world is getting more and more complex.
When communicating about complexity we need to work to make ideas
accessible rather than simply dumb things down or oversimplify.
We're diving into our archive to bring you a Rethinks episode where I speak
with Lauren Weinstein about specific techniques we can use to help our audience
better understand our complex topics.
Enjoy one of our very first, but still very relevant episodes.
We've all been in situations where someone explained something to us that
went over our heads or didn't land because it wasn't relevant or meaningful.
I'm Matt Abrahams.
I teach strategic communication at Stanford's Graduate School of Business.
Welcome to Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.
In this episode, we'll chat with Lauren Weinstein as we explore specific
techniques you can use to help your audience understand the complex
information that you need them to.
In other words, we hope to find the antidote to the curse of knowledge.
Hey, Lauren, how are you doing?
Lauren Weinstein: Great.
Glad to be with you here today.
Matt Abrahams: Like me, Lauren is a lecturer at Stanford's
Graduate School of Business.
Together for over five years, we've co-taught a class on
strategic communication.
In addition to this work, she also has a very popular TEDx talk called
Don't Believe Everything You Think.
So Lauren, as teachers and coaches we often have to explain complex
ideas so others can understand them, but lots of other folks also have to
take complex technical or scientific information and make it accessible.
Can you talk about some of the examples you use in class that you've
seen where people need to do this?
Lauren Weinstein: Yes.
I see this all the time.
I see it with doctors, scientists, researchers, when they need to
communicate their content to lay-audiences, whether it's at a
conference or they're seeking funding.
I see it a lot in business when engineers have to communicate with
product managers, when marketing teams need to communicate with customers, and
then also when executives and founders need to communicate their strategy,
for example, to their org and get everyone on board and in alignment.
And then also, of course, with startup, they have constantly needing to
pitch investors and sell to customers and make whatever their product or
service is more accessible for them.
Matt Abrahams: It sounds like almost everybody has situations.
Lauren Weinstein: Yes.
Across the board.
Matt Abrahams: Yeah.
In our class we spend a lot of time talking about being in
service of the audience rather than just focusing on the content.
Do you wanna share a few of your thoughts about being
audience-centric and what that means?
Lauren Weinstein: Yes.
Whenever I work with a new client, no matter who they are or what
their topic is, the first question I always ask is, who is your audience?
And what do they care about most?
Uh, and I'll give you an example of why this matters.
In 2001, Apple and Steve Jobs came out with the original iPod.
The engineers were really excited because it was going to be five gigabytes of data.
So exciting for them.
But if they came out with this message to audiences and customers, less exciting,
they didn't know what that means.
Is, is that a lot?
So instead they said a thousand songs in your pocket.
Matt Abrahams: I remember that.
Lauren Weinstein: Yes.
So they spoke in a way that was aligned with their audience's level of
knowledge and what they cared about.
They cared about how many songs they could fit, and so it's really important
to speak in a way that's aligned with your audience's level of knowledge, but
also in terms of what they care about most and, and translating it to that extent.
Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.
And I think that example really highlights how people can fixate
on the specific information rather than thinking about what's relevant
and important to their audience.
It's really about what the audience needs.
Beyond that audience-centric approach, uh, I've also found that people tend
to provide more information than is needed to help their audience really
understand what they're saying.
You know, it reminds me, I, I know I've shared this with you before,
my mother has this wonderful saying.
It's tell me the time, don't build me the clock.
We really need to help people get to the bottom line earlier.
We have to communicate concisely, especially when we're dealing
with complex information.
You know, I think with this idea of being audience-centric and concise, we
can really get into some of the specific tools that folks can use to help make
their complex information more accessible.
Can you share with me an example of someone you've worked with who did a
really good job explaining something complex, to get us started looking
at these particular tools people use?
Lauren Weinstein: Yes.
Happy to.
I worked with a TED speaker a while back.
His talk was about a treatment that he developed for age-related diseases
such as Alzheimer's and dementia.
When he first came to me, his first draft talked a lot about mitochondria
and prokaryotic cells and cell membranes.
Which is really exciting for him and other scientists.
But speaking to a lay-audience, a TED audience, it was a bit too technical
for them and, and less engaging.
So first we had him start with a story.
He told the story of his father who had Alzheimer's disease and what
it was like to see that decline.
He established a personal connection and he started sharing his content
in a way that the audience could really connect to and relate with.
Then he asked the audience questions, so, how many of you, you know someone that's
suffered from Alzheimer's or dementia?
So again, creating more connection with the audience to the topic.
And then finally we came up with an analogy to explain
something that was pretty complex.
In our bodies, we have billions of cells and each of these cells are
like tiny little individual cities.
And within these cities we have factories, which are the mitochondria.
The job of these factories is to take the oxygen we breathe and the
food we eat and convert it to energy.
The problem is that often our factories face oxidative damage from toxins
and environmental stressors, and this sets the factory walls on fire.
And so essentially the fires become much bigger than the
firefighters in our body can handle.
So the fires become out of control.
The factory goes down and then the entire city goes down.
And this is why we see the symptoms of Alzheimer's, for example,
what he developed is a supplement that, basically a fireproof brick.
So it comes in and repairs the factory walls with this fireproof brick and
makes it more resistant to damage so the factory can be saved as well as
even in some cases, um, rebuild itself.
So really incredible.
And my favorite part was right after his talk, his daughter-in-law came
up to me and she said, for four years I had no idea what he did.
I get it, this is amazing.
Thank you so much.
Matt Abrahams: Wow.
I love the notion of connecting before going into the complexity,
helping the audience relate to and understand, and there's an
emotional connection that happens.
So the taking a poll, the telling a personal story, what a great
way to prepare the audience for the complex information.
The leveraging of that extended analogy really helps the audience
to take the perspective of the overall information and see how those
fireproof bricks can really help.
Are there other techniques that you've noticed beyond personal
story, beyond connecting first and analogies that have worked for
clients or students that you've had?
Lauren Weinstein: Yes, I'll share two with you.
One is I call chunking.
And so a lot of times we'll have ten different things
that we wanna communicate.
And so recently I was working with a speaker.
He was a coach for a lot of different sports teams, and he's
known for helping turn them around.
And so he'd go to losing teams and, and over a year or two,
he'd make them winning teams.
And so he started taking what he did on the field into the business arena,
and now he'll speak to companies and share what they can also do
to have higher performing teams.
And when we first started working together, it was, here are the ten
things you should do, which is a lot.
It's a bit overwhelming.
So generally in speaking, in communication, we have the rule of three.
Audiences are pretty good at digesting three discrete buckets of things.
And so what we came up with is a framework that was step number one.
You wanna get your team into alignment.
You wanna get them all on the same page, heading toward the same North
star and, and get buy-in from them.
Then step two, you wanna have certain processes in place.
And so he talked about celebrating small wins, and he had a number of
other processes that are crucial.
And then step three had to do with resilience.
So what do you do in the face of setbacks?
How do you recover from those?
And so by having alignment, process, and resilience, he was able to make it a lot
more easily digestible for his audience.
Matt Abrahams: I think that idea of chunking is really, really powerful.
In fact, I just worked with somebody in a very similar vein where
there surprisingly were ten ideas.
And we were able to cluster them together in terms of psychological,
technological, and ethical.
And, and really thinking about how you can chunk similar
ideas together can be helpful.
I often use an analogy to explain that.
When, when you bake, for example, you often take the dry ingredients and the
wet ingredients, you do your work with them, and then you combine them together.
That's that notion of chunking.
You said there was another strategy that you've seen used well?
Lauren Weinstein: Yes.
Great book called Made to Stick, written by a colleague of
ours, Chip Heath, as you know.
And the example he uses, which I love, has to do with making data more relatable.
The Center for Interest in the Public health, at one point they
realized that movie popcorn had thirty grams of saturated fat.
They were outraged, and this is incredible.
We're gonna tell the public and they're not gonna believe it.
They're gonna stop eating movie popcorn.
So they came out with this message and as you might guess, nobody cared
because it didn't mean very much.
So thirty grams, is that a lot?
It, I guess it's bad.
How bad?
They needed to make it more relatable.
And so they went back, they, they hired some folks and now they came out with,
movie popcorn has more saturated fat than a bacon and eggs breakfast, a
hamburger and fries for lunch, and a steak dinner with all the trimmings combined.
Matt Abrahams: Wow.
Lauren Weinstein: And so, yeah, so incredible.
And so now people are outraged.
Now New York Times, CNN, ABC, everybody's talking about this.
Movie popcorn sales plummet.
Um, and the industry is forced to change their ingredients.
Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.
Very, very powerful example.
So in reflection, I, I think we're taking away some very specific skills that people
can use to make complex technical and scientific information more accessible.
We're talking about things like chunking information together,
using analogies, making data relatable and contextualizing it.
And begin by really understanding your audience and what's the most important
things that you need to communicate.
And finally, connect first, relate to the audience, use emotion, to get things
started, and that will help you as you go through your complex information.
And before we go, I always like to ask three questions of everybody
who helps with this podcast.
You mind if I give you our top three questions?
Lauren Weinstein: Go for it.
Matt Abrahams: Alright, so number one, if you were to capture the best
communication advice you've ever received as a five to seven word presentation
slide title, what would that advice be?
Lauren Weinstein: It would be connect, then lead.
For everyone listening, there's actually a great article in Harvard Business Review
with the same title, but this idea, you have to connect with the audience first.
You have to tap into what they care about, make your message relatable, and then you
can take them where you want them to go.
But that connection first is, is crucial.
Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.
And we certainly talked about that earlier.
Let me ask you question number two.
Who's a communicator that you really admire and why?
Lauren Weinstein: I love Brené Brown.
Uh, again, for anyone listening, she has an amazing special on Netflix
right now called Call to Courage, but she does so many of the things that we
teach in our class, that I share with my clients, in terms of storytelling,
making content accessible and relatable.
Uh, her style is just so natural, authentic, very
conversational, beautiful delivery.
Uh, just very engaging to watch.
So, uh, I think she's a great role model for anyone who's trying
to up their communication game.
Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.
She's very, very impressive.
And number three, what are the first three ingredients that go into a
successful communication recipe?
Lauren Weinstein: I would say it's asking yourself, uh, the following three
questions, which is, who is my audience?
What is my message?
And then, how can I bring that message to life through stories and analogies?
Matt Abrahams: Wonderful.
I absolutely agree that that recipe leads to, to great success.
Well, Lauren, it's been a pleasure to chat with you in this modality.
I know we work together a lot in a bunch of different ways.
Thank you for sharing your insight on how to make complex information more
accessible, and I hope that everybody is taking away some very specific tools that
can help you in any situation when you have some really complex information that
you need to get across to your audiences.
Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think
Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.
To learn more about how to make complex ideas more understandable, please
tune in to episode 49 with Chip Heath or episode 91 with Valerie Fridland.
This episode was produced by Katherine Reed, , Ryan
Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.
Our music is from Floyd Wonder.
With special thanks to Podium Podcast Company.
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