Good evening, welcome to the 985 workbench. I'm Greg and my call is W3DIB, tonight's host
for the August worth edition of the workbench. I'm located in Kennet Square, we meet every
Monday at 8pm on the W3GMS Parksburg repeater at a frequency of 146,985 MHz. The PL tone
to access the repeater is 100Hz. For those who use tone squelch on receive, the repeater transmits
a squelch tone of 94.8Hz. Newcomers are very welcome. We encourage all stations to check
in. Take a look at the repeater website located at www.w3gmsrepeater.com. It has lots of information
including technical articles, of 95 users and actions, repeater etiquette, and history. Please
be aware that on occasion the repeater experiences intermod interference. Please run maximum power
or be prepared to check in digitally through Echolink or All-Star. definitely want to hear
you. To be able to use EchoLink or All-Star on 985, you'll need to register with us. Directions
for doing so can be found on the website at w3gmsrepeater.com. Also, when the intermod
is present before starting a transmission, give a short call, kind of like a, am I getting
in okay? Once the host, me, confirms that, you can then share your longer comments. When we
experience the intermod, just check in to make sure you're getting in solid. Here on the
workbench, we focus on answering general questions of radio theory and operation. Additionally,
we invite each station briefly to comment on your amateur radioactivity in the past week.
When checking in, please indicate if you have a question for the workbench. So just say your
call and then question, or state your call, W3DIB. No question, if there's no question.
If you don't have a question, definitely please still check in. After all stations have checked
in, we will first share what we've done this past week using a roundtable format. Please
write down the call of the station that checks in right after you. When you have finished
your comments, turn the mic over to that station. Once we have all made our comments, we will
start the question and answer portion of the workbench operating as a directed net. I
will call on a station that indicated having a question and then for stations who wish to
respond to that question. Wait to be recognized by me, Net Control, before beginning a transmission.
This helps us handle the questions efficiently and keep the net running smoothly. At times,
it helps for two stations to pass the mic back and forth to help clarify the situation and
pass information. Feel free to do that as needed and then pass the back to Net Control. Here's
a few things to remember. Don't be too quick to talk. Pause a couple seconds before, or
I should say before hitting the push to talk switch. It's good repeater etiquette and it
allows those on the digital modes like All Star and Echo Link a chance to check in as there
is a bit of a delay for them. When you do click the push to talk button, please make sure to
wait a second before you start talking. The repeater does take a moment to process your
PL tone and it will lop off the first. portion of the first syllable of the word if you're
not careful. It's very easy for the EchoLink and All-Star stations to miss the first letter
of your call sign if you're too quick to talk after pushing the push to talk. Also, the
repeater has a three minute timer. If you talk more than three minutes without letting up
on your mic button, the repeater completely shuts down. That is until you've released
your push to talk switch. So every two to three minutes, release the mic button just for a
moment like this. And then simply continue. Before we begin, I would like to say a thanks
to all of our Workbench hosts. They are the ones who make this happen. If you may be interested
in hosting the Workbench, please contact Jim AF3Z, Alpha Foxtrot 3 Zulu, or any of us,
and we will help get started. Lastly, please join Jim AF3Z this Thursday night at 8 p.m.
for the 9 a.m. roundtable. At this time we're going to start the check-in process. Remember
to indicate whether you have a question by simply stating question or no question after your
call. At this time, anyone on the digital modes that wish to check in, please call now. So
that would be all ECHO-Link or All-Star stations. Please call now.
Whiskey 8, Charlie Romeo Whiskey, CR, no question.
K-7, Romeo, Alpha, November, K-7, R-A-N in Salt Lake City.
Kilo Charlie 3, Whiskey Whiskey Charlie, KC3WWC, John in Landisville, no question.
Okay, forgive me for the long pause. I was just looking up one of the calls. So, so far
for the digital check-ins, I've got WHCRWCR, then I had Kilo7ROMEOALPHANovember. Justin,
I believe it is. Wow. And then I had KC3, Whiskey Whiskey Charlie, John, are there any other
stations in the digital modes wishing to check in?
Okay, nothing heard. Now for the RF check-ins. Anybody else coming in through RF, please check
in now. The Alpha 3, Victor Echo Echo, mobile right now, but soon to... No question.
KC3YSM, Stephen Downing.
NA 3CW? No question.
AC3SQI, no question.
Alpha Fox, chart three Zulu, excuse me, AF3Z, nope.
Euler Delta 3 Alpha Papa Romeo, no question.
Okay, let me go through what I've got so far. So originally, I'm gonna go through the digital
stations quickly. had W8CRW, K7RAN, KC3WWC. Then starting the RF check-ins, I've got Ron,
WhiskeyAlpha3, Victor Echo Echo, WA3VE, then KC3YSMSteve, Downingtown, NA3CW, Chuck,
KC3OKBill, with our first question. 3KFT John, believe it's WA3, I hope it's WA3. And no question,
you kind of doubled with Bill or part of your transmission got lopped off. And then I believe
the next station was Kilo Bravo 3 Bravo Papa India. Is that the correct station? I did see
that you had a question.
This is Kilo Delta 3 Bravo Papa India here. Yes, Simon, we're taking...
I I got it that time. Kilo Delta 3, Bravo, Papa, India and is it John?
You're a little bit scratchy and I'm having a hard time making you out, I'm hoping I got
it right that time. If I didn't, I will correct it when I come back around with your question.
So after Kilo Delta 3 Bravo Papa India, we have Kilo Charlie 3 Sierra Quebec India Wayne,
KC3SQI, then AF3Z Jim, then over to KD3 Alpha Papa Romeo. Paxton, you are our tail gunner.
there any other stations that would like to check in? Please call now.
Thanks.
Oh, go ahead Chuck, I didn't catch what you said. Yeah, KD3BPI, I believe he said his name
was Simon.
Chuck, you have ears that are made of magic. I'm amazed at how well you were able to pull
things out. I guess maybe you might be listening on headphones. Thank you, I appreciate that.
Got it. Kilo Delta 3 Bravo Papa India Simon. And I wrote down you have a question. So
are there any other stations that would like to check in? Please call now. 3, Mike, Foxdrop,
Bravo, checking in, no question.
We've got Mike added to the list, W3MFB, Mighty Fine Buckets. All right, I guess we'll go to
the quick check-in portion of the net at this point. So feel free to share anything you've
done in the past week of Ham Radio. And it can go back to, I guess, since the roundtable,
because that would have been the last directed net. So anything from Friday through this morning.
And hey, I'd like to offer everybody an apology for missing my hosting duty the previous roundtable.
yeah, I just wanted to put that out there because it's been on my mind since it happened. just
putting that out there. And with that, we will turn it over to CR, Whiskey8CRW. This is Whiskey3,
Delta India Bravo on the Monday night workbench.
Very good, Greg. Thanks for hosting tonight. This is CR. And it's been a relatively normal,
quiet, week-and-ham radio, 985 activities, a couple other nets on other frequencies. And
that's been it. So let's go to Justin, K7, Romeo Alpha November, WHCRW.
Yeah, W-A-C-R-W, this is K7R-A-N. And you do have my name correct, but I go by Randy, Radio
Alpha, November Delta Yankee, just to mix things up, I guess. No, that is what I go by. I'm
in Salt Lake City, and I was just setting up DV Switch on a device and hooked in here through
All Star Link directly and just wanted to check in just to see if it worked. So it does. And
it's been a long time since I've been up around Downing Town, Pennsylvania. But I have a
friend who actually works at QVC. I believe they're not that far away from you. Anyway,
that's it for me. In and out. Thank you for letting a stranger say hello from all the way
out west. This is K7RAN.
Randy, nice to make your acquaintance. As we said at the top of the net, everybody's always
welcome, so feel free to come back and join in, especially if you have a question or join
us on Thursday night. There's another roundtable discussion where everybody kind of just go
around and enjoy each other's company, talk about anything ham radio related. All right,
turning it over to John, KC3, WWC.
Thanks Greg, this is KC3WWC, John in Lansfield. For my past week, it has been kind of quiet.
I listen to a bunch of podcasts for all my interests, that includes ham radios. a conference coming
up called the Zero Retries Conference. It's on September 13th. It's virtual and in person
like Portland or something like that or Oregon, I'm not sure. I'm gonna join virtually, but
it's all digital aspects of radio. know, everything but talking, I guess. So it sounds interesting.
I've got to check that out. Also, currently, my last job just ended, so I'm between work,
so I'm going have all kinds of time. So I'm contemplating maybe traveling for some parks
or other radio projects, et cetera. Maybe trying to build another directional VHF antenna,
something lighter weight to put on the top of the flagpole here and point towards 984.
thinking maybe a moccasin or something like that. My projects just get more complicated
slowly over time, so think about giving that a shot. I will hand off to Ron, WA3VE. This
is KC3, WWC.
Very good. By the way, the intermod is in there among us on and off. It doesn't sound like
it's there right now, but if you have high power, go ahead and use it. Or like Randy out west,
if you have All-Star EchoLink, now may be a good time to switch to that just in case the
intermod comes back. This is WA3VEE Ron in Westchester. And yes, Randy, welcome to 985. Absolutely.
And we have a website, as Greg mentioned, w3gmsrepeater.com. And also if you're connecting to Joe's repeater
on the the All-Star node 53085, be sure that that's the only node you're connected to because
we don't want to be connected to the world here on 985 for sure. Okay, I've been asked a lot
of questions here about Joe and how he is doing. He evidently picked up a bug way back at field
day and it took a little while to gestate and to... rear its ugly head and Joe is fine.
He's absolutely fine. I saw him today. I saw him yesterday. I had the pleasure of visiting
him in Chester County Hospital. And when you mention hospital, everybody frets, but believe
me, Joe is fine. He is just in there to allow the parasites in his blood to decrease to the
point to where he can be released. And it's moving definitely in the right direction. So
That's the 5,000 foot view of what's going on. No cause for concern at all. And we had
a couple really great conversations since yesterday, good probably total of four hours of chat.
And since Chester County Hospital is right around the corner, in fact, I'm looking at
the back of it right now here from the van, from the Silver Porcupine Standby. So, you
know, I told Joe if he needs anything including contraband I'd be delighted to bring it in.
hi. So, ham radio, not much activity but that's the big news to report. And Greg, thanks for
doing the net tonight and I will turn it over to Steve, KC3 and I'm going to move from the
van here to the fix station inside. KC3YSM to take at WA3VEE mobile.
Thank you, Ron, W-A-3-V-E-E. This is KC3YSM. Greg, thanks for sitting in tonight and hosting.
uh, Ron. Ron, thanks for the update on...
been wondering how you...
Randy, yes, QVC is right around the corner. Literally, I used to live, she's like, ride
my bike. All good, so welcome. ham radio's been a bit quiet.
8 days.
game.
And that is about it.
Thank you Steve, KC3YSM and A3CW.
quiet weekend Lake Wobegon, I radio wise, 985 activities, subbing for Joe on Sunday, so I
hosted the pre-net and did that control for the Antique Wireless Association, PMA, I'm
now at 75 meters. And we had a good group.
and of course, visiting Joe and keeping an ear on things in general. And then Bill and
I went over to Joe's house to work on the tower and I'll let Bill explain what we did since
he did most of it. I help, he does the actual work and I help. So that's probably it, let's
see. Yeah, that's it. Oh, and Steve. Interesting you you rode your bike to QVC when you were
a kid I Rode in that neighborhood as well Except I was riding on 202 while it was being
built It was kind of fun riding up and down a four-lane divided highway with nobody on
it So it did that a couple of times that was kind of a thrill and that was in the neighborhood
of QVC So speaking of bill over to same KC 3. Oh, okay, and a 3 CW N-A-3C-W K-C-3-O-O-K.
Thanks, Chuck. And great, thanks for taking the net tonight.
for I think a year or two before it was actually opened. But anyhow, enough of that. I guess
for me, as Chuck said, the highlight was working on Joe's tower. It's two steps forward, one
step.
out.
You'll never know how convenient it is, and especially if you don't have it.
table.
legs.
DC power strip as well as a 12 volt DC strip.
They come in real handy. You don't have to climb over things to find an outlet, use a long
extension cord or any of that kind of stuff. I learned a long, long time ago, make your
power available easy, easy to get to and so forth. We've been kind of making up master
lists of call letters and so forth. We've had a couple of typos. I made a list of the
985 gang. I keep a list when we check in and then from that I kind of make a master list.
And it's growing. So far tonight, two new ones. So, very good. And not too much otherwise.
radio-wise, we're sorting through parts and pieces and cables and things like that, I
discovered. in the sealed packages today. we've got a place... Okay, I think it was Simon
kilowatt delta three. from Whiskey Alpha 3, King Fox Tango, John here, go ahead.
you're trying to make it in there, we're not quite getting there. You're just barely breaking
the scrouch. KD3D, BPI, this is W3DIB.
Yeah, we're still not hearing you. I'm checking both on the RF and the All-Star side. I'm
not able to hear you on either side. So if you're trying to get in, if you can increase
power. know the intermod was back it seems like it might be not here now but if you want
to give it one more shot let's let's give it a try
We still have intermod. He might get a chance if it goes away later.
Okay, very good Chuck. Yeah Simon, we're not able to hear you. I assume did it go on a
wait?
hear the standard, you know, over top of me as well as the on the end.
We're going it over to Wayne, KC3, SQI, and we'll try to come back to Simon after, I guess,
the first question. So Wayne, KC3, SQI, this is W3DIB.
Am I making it in? and clear.
Okay. This is KC3SQI. in the process of going to the new tower and
to start trying to mount the remote switch inside the weatherproof.
and got it off of the old tower. And last year, some of you can remember that I had
a remote switch full of earwigs or pins or bugs. And so I put screen around it. Well.
took it apart to look at what was in there and I had little black ants going everywhere, up
my pants, down my pants, up my arms, down my neck. It was a mess. Had take it outside and
blow it all out with the compressor. And so I will get that mounted into the box and then
we'll go from there and start. moving all the coaxes and stuff. And then the last thing
to move over will be the two meter antenna. Hopefully things will settle down a little
bit and I won't have to find out what kind of bugs I got in the remote switch this year.
So with that I'll turn it over to Jim, AF3Z, this is KC3SQI.
I'm making it here on RS. You are Jim, you're coming right in.
Okay, sorry folks. I was looking up Simon on QRZ and then I got fouled up here. I'm on
echo link at the moment. AF3Z, a lid here this evening. And good evening everybody and
Randy out in Salt Lake, good to hear you. And also Simon. Simon, I saw there on QRZ that...
You happen to know Ron W-A-3-V-E-E, so I want to express my condolences for that. But,
and I also saw, think you're using an H-T, so yeah, you were marginal before the intermod
came in, and that just wiped you out, and that's a normal kind of thing. So anyway, Ron and
others of us, you can get an outside antenna and things like that. But good to hear you
and hopefully later on it will be gone and we're okay there. I haven't done a whole lot this
week radio-wise, my normal 985 stuff and some CW occasionally with a local guy here and that's
about it. But I do want to point out too, like Chuck and Bill said, I lived very close to
202 and they built the quote new 202 and I never rode on it my bike I can't believe it that
just how did I miss that I thought about that a number of times why didn't I get up there
between 29 and 401 we lived right along it there had good access to it but I never did
ride my bike so that's one I missed so Paxton good to hear you again tonight over to you
KD3APR this is AF3Z
want to check, am I getting into the repeater okay?
Yes, making it to the side.
Great, thank you Jim. This is K-3 APR packaging. I'm in Hockessin right now on a 8 watt handheld
so I'm pleasantly surprised that I'm making it in through the inner mod. Not too much for
me in the way of ham radio this week. Took part in the... I know. Yeah, took part last Thursday
but... not all too much else, you know, did actually repair this very radio. They're all
great until the screen goes white and you can't work on it. that was a simple case of disassemble,
unplug the ribbon connector and plug it back in. But probably the closest I've come to
a repair thus far, but not all too much else for me.
That's over two W three NFB Mike.
be a three MFP, am I making it correct? You're making it just fine. alright, yeah, not too
much going on here.
HF this evening.
Yeah, BW3MS.
Excellent, thanks Mike. W3MFB, W3DIB. Is there, before we go on to the question, is there anybody
else that would like to check in, please call now. You have a quick, quick comment, WA3VE.
Go for it, Ron. Okay, very good. Well, first of all, I just want to, I'm completely elated
here to have one of my former students try to check into the workbench here, Simon Yovino.
Wonderful, wonderful job, Simon. I sent you an email. I have your old email address from
the days we were at Delaware Tech together and you were one of my students. So welcome, absolute
welcome to 985. And I won't keep it here because we need to get to the questions, but I wanted
to throw that out there. Give me a call tomorrow. I emailed my phone number to you. I want to
get you going and tell you how you can get a very good signal into any of the repeaters
in this area. And Paxton, great to hear you. Another one of my mentors as well. So, one
final thing, great Clambake, had the pleasure of having Luke. Much to his displeasure, I'm
sure he had to ride shotgun with me all the way up to build W2DGBs and back. But we had
a great time, all kidding aside. That's it from me. Thanks for letting me come in and make
the comment. doing a fine job Greg thanks for hosting again tonight W3DIBWA3VE
Alrighty, left a cause for the pause there. Thanks Ron. WA3VEW3DIB. And I was going to
say Simon, Kilo Delta 3 BPI. I was going to say if you want to send me an email or send
Ron an email your question, we can still try to have it answered on the net if you can hear
us.
I think the first person that had a question besides Simon was Bill, so we'll send it over
to KC3. Oh, okay. W3DIV on the Monday night work.
KC-3DIB, KC-3O...
He can do it.
The Warrior amplifier has two ratings for AM.
John, we'll turn it over to you. WA-3KFT. WA-3, King, Fox, Tango. Control carrier modulation
is a cheap way of doing AM as opposed to plate modulation. Nightkit T-150.
pair of 6146s in it. did not have plate modulation. had control carrier modulation. And what happens
is the audio changes the... carrier and in effect it modulates the carrier. So if they're
saying X number watts of control carrier modulation, you need to look at what the peak is because
it's not constant. It's a signal very much like sideband. No audio. It does have a carrier,
but it's very low. modulation peaks, it's very high. So you need to have a power supply
that is stiff and won't sag during modulation. But the Niket T-150 used control carrier modulation.
I think there were some other transmitters that did it. It's less expensive than plate
modulation and that's why they use it. This is WA-3KFT.
Excellent. Cool. I'm taking notes as well. Are there any other stations that would like
to offer a comment?
Is it? Take it away, Jim.
The DX60, HeatKit DX60 also has control carrier modulation. And John, you can correct me or
Chuck or somebody if I'm wrong here. My recollection, it's been a while since I looked at it, is
it's much harder to overdrive the modulation as in, you know, get flat topping and stuff.
The way it's set up, it kind of... When I was testing out the DX60, I couldn't get
it to overdrive. So anyway, I think that may be true. But anyway, that's another rig that
uses it. like I say, I didn't have much to do as far as setting the audio level, because
it sort of seemed to almost control that itself, at least on the high end. Back to you there,
Greg, AF3Z.
AF3Z, W3DIB, are there any other stations with comments?
John. The Nikon T150, it uses a pair of 6146s in the final. And the modulation is applied
to the screens. So basically, you're modulating the screen instead of the plate. Plate modulation,
literally you modulate the V plus on the plate. But control carrier modulates the V plus on
the screen. And I got carried away during a QSO once and really hit the audio hard.
And I burned the screens out of pair of 6146s in the T-150. So it's an inexpensive way
to make amplitude modulation. But look to see if it modulates the screen of the final or
the screen of a driver. Be aware that if you hit the audio too hard, you're going to lose
the screen. This is WA3KFT.
I like the way you put that. Are there any, I guess you definitely want a brick wall limiter
on your AF side before you go into your transmitter there. Are there any other stations that would
like to offer a comment? Please call now.
See you again. Over to Chuck. is NA3CW. Yeah, the X60 did carrier control or screen modulation.
Screen modulation can sound excellent.
The efficiency is not as high as plate modulation, but plate modulation requires basically a
very large audio amplifier and a modulation transformer. well, that version of plate
modulation. As far as burning the screens up, that has to do with the dynamics. of the
tube during voltage swings. you can end up with a situation where the screens are more
positive than the plate and all the current will go to the screen instead of the plate,
all the electrons. And they are fast. And the screen's not made to take that much current,
so they go, boof. Back in the day when I was working in the shortwave business, I made
a dynamic carrier control system for the broadcast transmitters. They were 100 kilowatt carrier
and they did modulation by varying the power supply like a switch mode power supply. And
so at 12 kilovolts it was at 100 kilowatt carrier and 100 percent modulation means
you're doubling the voltage. the AC voltage that's coming out of the tube. And so it goes
from 100 kilowatts to the voltage at 100 kilowatts, double that, you end up with 400 kilowatts
because power goes up by a square of the voltage.
the transmitter's a cable of 400,000 watt peaks. Now, when you're sitting at 100 kilowatts of
carrier and nobody's talking, you're burning up a lot of power. and there's nothing to listen
to other than keeping the channel quiet on the receiver. So what we did, and there's various
schemes of carrier control depending on what your goals are. In our case it was to save
money since we were a donation of finance ministry.
I designed a system whereby the transmitters, when there was nobody talking, they would drop
back to 50 kilowatts. which is enough to keep the generally in target areas enough to keep
the channel quiet. And then if there was a little bit of audio, say half audio, they
would drop down to 25 kilowatts, but the audio would sort of mask the noise of the channel
in the receiver. But then when there was loud audio, the carrier would swing up to the full
100 kilowatts so we could get make the 400 kilowatt peaks. So we ended up saving $5,000 a month
out of a $30,000 a month electric bill. So carrier control can be very useful, but it can be tricky
to set up. And what they're doing in the case of how much power, it's a plate modulated system
is generally constant carrier, constant carrier coming out plus peaks. carrier control is
the power is going up and down so the average is lower and so you can run quote unquote
more power in a carrier control situation without overloading things downstream because it's
not at full power most of the time depending on how much himming and hauling you do. So
back to NET, I don't know if any of that made sense but there you go, back to NET and H3CW.
Wow Chuck, that's a really cool explanation. It almost sounds like you made the RF equivalent
of like a downward expander in the audio world. And when I say that, instead of downward expanding
the AF side, the audio frequency, you were kind of downward expanding the power you were
applying to the tubes that would modulate the signal. Is that a fair synopsis of what
was going on? to interject W, NA 3CW, this is W3DIB. Internet control, you can do whatever
you want. Yeah, that's kind of the idea. Now BBC had a whole different approach. They wanted
to keep the channel very quiet. And so what they would do, because they had the budget
to do it, they don't anymore because they don't do very much international broadcasting anymore.
But what they did, was they would cram the carrier up to maximum and just sit there when
there was no audio. the channel would be very quiet. And then when they modulated, the carrier
power would actually drop because now you have audio in the channel overcoming the noise.
And so all their modulation was downward. And so it... Made a very listenable thing,
but it cost the fortune to run it because anytime somebody stopped talking both the carrier goes
up to maximum But so again like I said it depended on what your goals were in our case It was
to save money so in the listening end at the listeners end in our normal not on the fringes
But in our normal target areas They couldn't tell the difference You can listen to recordings
and the carrier is jumping all over the place, but it sounds fine because there's always enough
carrier to fully modulate the audio without clipping. So it sounds a lot more complicated
than it really is. Doing it was complicated, but the end result works very well. So in
any event, to get back to Bill's question, it's all about average carrier power. Now with
a carrier control situation such as would be in a DX6D or something like that, the average
carrier power is less than if it was in, say, plate modulated AM system. N83CW. Thanks
Chuck, that's an awesome explanation. Yeah, and Bill, sorry to sidetrack. I'll put it
out there one more time. there any other stations that want to offer a comment? Please call now.
W3DIB.
Okay, nothing hurts. So we'll turn it back over to you, Bill. Hopefully that answers your
question. KC3, okay, W3DIB.
W3DIB KC300K. Yes, it does answer my question and surprisingly it's starting to sink in and
make...
and end.
It's interesting, John's comment about burning out.
can't respond quickly enough.
I it. And I'll have to do some more reading about the radio because it gives you both.
3, go down to rabbit.
KC-30K, W3DIB. The only other person I believe that had a question was Simon, so Telo Delta
3, Bravo Papa India. I just checked my email inboxes and I don't have anything. Ron, did
you happen to get an email from Simon or I guess we'll give Simon a chance to see if he's
able to make it in. KD3BPI, are you there? W3DIB. W3DIB, KD3BPI, can you hear me coming
through yet? You're coming through perfect. Excellent. Well this is great news. I ran
down to my car and grabbed my mag mount and a cookie sheet. And I stuck the cookie sheet
in the edge of a gutter here on my fiance's porch out. She has a third floor apartment
in East Ocean. And it's sort of on the, with my small radio, it's kind of on the fringe.
Well, at least it seems to be on the fringe. I don't think it actually is, but what you
get with a cheap underpowered radio. Anyway, I will get to my questions and it has to do
with automotive application of a handheld radio. So I have my BaoFang and I have it
hooked up to my MagMount usually in my Nissan. But I tend to get, when I'm at speed, I tend
to get a little more noise on the receive and I've received reports that I get noise on
the transmit as well. And so I was wondering if I should perhaps ground my antenna to
the chassis of the vehicle and therefore ground my radio as well because the radio grounds
the antenna. But I hope that got through, OK? Let me know if it did.
You got through just perfect. I was actually able to check you on the input as well. So
you're making it to Kennet Square, right near Longwood Gardens, very well as well. Yeah,
any stations wishing to give an answer, please call now. Reset.
Alright, we'll turn it over to Jim. That sounded great there, Simon, and very astute adjustment
to your setup there. was great. I have always used mag mounts in various kinds, sizes,
various people. I never had that problem. This is a guess on my part, but I would think
maybe the connection from the whip to the mag mount, the actual whip to the mag mount. I
know if they could be dirty or corroded or something or clean that up, but I'm wondering if when
you're moving, the whip moving around, you know, that connection is not real good and
that's what's causing your noise. That's my guess. Back to you there, Greg. W3DIBAF3Z.
AAF3ZW3DIB, are there any other stations that would offer a comment? I was actually just
going to throw in there, don't, Simon, don't know if you're getting, when you say you get
more noise on receive and transmit, is it noise, like as in white noise, or are you getting
like a whine, or you know, like what I would call ignition noise that kind of changes pitch
with acceleration of the engine? I just figured I'd throw that in there as an extra question.
Do you have any kind of? like additional information on the type of noise you're getting.
Yeah, so what I heard, the report I heard was that it came through as sort of like a crackle
and that's what I hear on the receive as well. It's just sort of a, like a very, well,
not quite intermittent. It has some sort of frequency to it but no defined frequency if
that makes sense. It just kind of, it'll crackle a few times and then be fine and then crackle
again and be fine, but then. almost, well, almost without fail when I come to a stop,
whether at a traffic light or whatever, it goes away. With whatever frequency it had, it doesn't
have anymore. But that's the kind of noise that crackles. And also, the report I heard was
that it made it so that I couldn't hear, he couldn't hear me at the other end. And as soon
as I came to a stop, he said he could hear me, it's just fine. So... I wonder, I do wonder,
I'll have to double check to make sure it's good and tight. Thank you, I believe that was
KF3Z.
My double blue heading, was Chuck. Was that you, Chuck? It were.
Simon, just to recap, you say you're using a handheld HT wired out to a mag mount.
Yes, that is correct. It has a couple of adapters on it as well. I had to do SMA to the RG.
I can't remember the number now, but it's the one with Elmary, relatively large.
And are you using the internal battery or are you powering it through a cable to the car
like it's to a cigarette lighter?
the internal battery.
Okay, one thing that occurs to me is I'm wondering if you're building up static electricity because
you have no ground to the frame of the car. The mag-mount couple doesn't really DC connect
to the car and you're not using the car's power system so you got no drain for static and
depending on weather conditions and etc. etc. you can collect significant amount of voltage
on the antenna if it's not grounding to the car any place. aside from, we'll say forget
about grounding the mag mount. If you could maybe do a clip lead from say the outside
of the coax connector on your adapter or the radio itself and run a clip lead to some metal
part of the car that is grounded as a drain, that might be an interesting experiment to
see if it quiets it down. It may not be that, but that did occur to me. NHECW.
the other state.
Over to W3MFB, W3DIB.
This is Mike W3MFB. When I started out I did the same thing, balfang, mag mount in. can
tell you one thing, yeah, you just mentioned keeping everything tight. That's very good.
Right?
Get them all from radio.
and you're a little scratchy when you...
even when you're using a high-power radio.
Yeah, a mobile radio.
Here's your... bit more.
You know, it's doable. You're doing it right now on a cookie sheet.
3
on the cookie sheet and the mag mount is excellent.
The necessity is the mother of all invention. Excellent. W3DIB here. Are there any other
stations that would like to offer a comment? W3VEE. We're turning over to Ron, W-A-A-3-B-E-E-W-3-D-I-B.
Excellent, excellent, excellent. By the way, Simon, I have a recording of your first transmission
there, so I'll send that over to you via email. And yes, thanks for forwarding the question
to me also, but you're getting in very, very well on your mashup that you have there.
And by the way, another person who checked in here who I've also mentored is Steve, KC3YSM,
and his first configuration was exactly yours. It was also a mag mount on a cookie sheet
from his kitchen. But he's significantly closer to the repeater than I think you are. So I
don't see your address on QRZ, but nonetheless, we'll settle that tomorrow when we chat on
the phone. Anyway, I just wanted to make the comment that before Chuck, Chuck beat me
to the push to talk button, but it definitely sounds like static buildup. If you think about
the fact that there's friction, of course, between that antenna and the air molecules
moving by. And on a grand scale, that's exactly what is caused in a thunderstorm. So that's
probably what's going on. The mechanism is certainly there to define that. When you're
moving, the faster you're moving, you probably have more and more static. And like you said,
as you stop, the static goes away. Once you put a ground on it, that should solve it.
And we'll talk more about effective antennas both for the fixed station and also for mobile
tomorrow when we chat. Back to you, Greg. Again, Simon, pleasure to have you on the,
first of all, to have your radio ticket. And at least I had some success anyway,
way back when. Thanks for acknowledging me on QRZ on your page, for sure. and you'll
notice that K3DTS is still a call sign, but it's no longer with the college, it's with
me. Back to you, Greg. W3DIB and the net WA3VE.
Thanks Ron. Yeah, K3DTS, man that'll forever be burned into my mind as the 985 Field Day
go to station. I know it has more purpose than that, but I'll never forget that call sign.
yeah, kudos Simon for quick thinking in pulling out a cookie sheet for your ground plane and
making your antenna more effective. That's really cool. And I'm jealous. I'm very jealous that
you got to have Ron for an instructor. I said to Ron before, or at least I hope I have, if
I'd have had him and when I was in double E, I probably would have graduated double E, although
I probably still would have gravitated towards programming because my brain just works that
way. Anyway, I am going on. Are there any other stations that would like to offer a comment,
please call now. KC3SQI Take it away Wayne, this is W3DIB. Okay, another way that you
could ground the radio is if you had a power cord that went into a lighter plug for the
radio for charging. And if you can use that while you're transmitting, that will ground
the radio too and also gives the static a place to bleed off. that might be something that
you actually have running around with you.
KC-3SQI, back to you.
Yeah, that does have the added benefit. You could derive your power from the car, giving
you longer QSOs, longer conversations. Are there any other stations who would like to
offer a comment? Please call now.
Okay, nothing hurt. Simon, we'll turn it back over to you for your final comments. KD3BPI.
This is W3DIB.
83 BPI. Thanks to everyone for their thoughts. This is a lot. I took notes, but it's a lot
to think on. I do, I was wondering about the idea of MADC building up because as I heard
it this morning, I had moved my antenna from my trunk lid to my roof because I thought maybe
my trunk lid wasn't an effective ground plane. And so, and it actually was worse on my roof.
The noise I was getting, I was able to hear it in the receive, whereas before I hadn't
been able to hear it in the receive. So I was thinking like, maybe the wind rushing by is
doing something. But you guys put it together for me and I thank you for that. And I like
the idea of this cigarette lighter plug. That would be easy. I was thinking I might have
to go and find my stash of forks connectors, the crimp on forks connectors, and put one
under one of the bolts of my seat. like I probably can just hook up the lighter plug. And I might
even, I'm going to test my radio tonight. This particular Baofang has a USB-C port on the
battery for charging. And I was wondering if maybe that, the case or the shell of that
USB-C port, maybe that is shorted to the same ground as the...
I can use the US.
that I'll be getting a pigtail with the cigarette light on.
P3PPR.
Excellent. Yeah, sounds like you have a couple of options. I often wonder if you were to plug
in the USB-C. I wonder if you might negate your one noise problem with another one, especially
if there's a battery management or charge management module circuit in there with extra potentially
noise generating components. But I guess that's for another conversation. If there's anybody
else that has a question or if there's just anybody that would like to do a late check-in
before we close down the workbench, let's put it out there. So anybody that wants to either
get a check-in or has a last minute question for the workbench, please call now. This is
W3DIB. 3MFP question. A3CW, comment.
Let's turn it over to Chuck first for comment because I think it's probably on the same question
and then we'll turn it, Chuck if you want to turn it right over to Mike, W3MFB that'll be
perfect. This is Whiskey 3 Delta, India Bravo, sending it to NA3CW. Actually this is different,
NA3CW. Going back to Wayne, talking about his ants in the box. At one time I had a full infestation
of ants in my household breaker panel. They were waving their antennas between the breakers.
They were all over the place in there. And I read a thing and I tried it out and it works.
Ants hate the smell of peppermint oil. So I vacuumed out as many as I could, but I didn't
want to go spraying around inside my breaker panel with bug spray. So I put, as per the
suggestion, I got a little cup and put in a few cotton balls and soaked them with peppermint
oil. Now you want to do this outdoors because if you get peppermint oil loose in your house,
you're just going to burn your house down out of frustration because it's overwhelming. Peppermint
oil is very powerful stuff. But if you, especially if you're doing it outdoors anyway, put a
cup, a bottle cap, a lid, something, and put some cotton balls on it and put peppermint
oil on it and sit it inside the box and you will not have any trouble with ants because
they can't stand it. Back to net, NHRECW.
Wow, that's a cool tip. I'm going to file that one away too. Over to you Mike. W3MFB, W3DIB.
Crazy question, crazy question. On the work. seeing how long winded we all get over here.
And sometimes we leave a pause for the cause and that's a good thing. I heard you say that
before Greg. I never asked this in five years, how come we never break for a mercy.
We'll put that out to the group. I don't know if I totally understand the question. Why do
we never break for emergency traffic? Have we had an instance where someone has chimed in?
But maybe I understand the question. I will put it out. Is there anybody, any stations
that have a comment? Please call now.
I got WA3VEE but you definitely doubled with somebody so I'll mark down Ron, we'll go to
you first and then was there another station to call? HCRW.
Got it. Alright, so we'll send it over to Ron, W-A-3-V-E-E, and then over to W-8-C-R-W. This
is W-3-D-I-B. Monday night, workbench. Very good, Greg. W3DIB with W-A-C-R-W in the wings.
W-A-3-V-E-E, with your indulgence as net control, I will send it right over to C-R when I'm done.
Typically, nets have a script where they start off by saying, if anybody has priority traffic,
please call now or whatever. I don't know that we've ever, and I can't speak for...
the founders of the workbench and that would be Jerry W3 EMF or for the roundtable Phil
KC3 CIB. I don't know that we ever really thought about that. I don't know that it's
really necessary in ham radio and it sounds like something that you'll learn here. In
ham radio basically, if there is an emergency, The typical way that you signal an emergency
is you do break break between transmissions. That will immediately signal an emergency
for anyone who didn't know that. That's the typical procedure and folks have been in this
a long time, in fact even some longer than me, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I
always understood the procedure to be. Someone with any emergency traffic, if you're on the
road and there's an accident or you need to, you can't get to 911 or something like that,
or you need immediate help, the way to do it is break, break. That signals an emergency
like right away and everything stops. So calling at the beginning of a net, always thought,
frankly myself, I've always thought that was silly. But anyway, that's the input that
I have there. So. If anybody ever has a priority, that's what would be expected to be done.
That's in the ARRL operating manual and has been in there since DIRT was invented. Over
to you, CR. W-H-C-R-W. End of group. W-A-3-V-E-E. Good, Ron. I believe you got the essence of
the answer. So, yeah, so if you have an issue, you have an emergency on the ham radio side.
break break and that will give you priority. And with that let's go back to Greg. W8CRW.
Go for it Jim. Right over to AF3Z. Just a highlight, not a highlight, highlighting something. That
is correct, obviously, I hope. But also I can say I've never heard it discussed here and
I agree with Ron. It's kind of silly the way it gets done. does remind people it can happen.
But that's when we say, you know, you should leave pauses between transmissions and it's
good repeater etiquette, which is in our scripts at times. That's part of what that's all about.
the airway, you should leave breaks in case somebody needs to break in. So another good
reason to do that. And we all trespass on that territory of time. Back to you, Greg. AF3Z.
Nope, that's good advice for me as well. I can sometimes be quick with the push to talk,
especially now that I've gotten over to RF. Yeah, I just, I had always assumed, and it's
funny, this, I, for once, I didn't feel like the dunce in the room because I actually knew
the answer to that. I remember, I forget how it happened, I think it was Dr. Mills back
at University of Delaware where he was kind of in charge of the amateur radio club there
when I was in school, W3UD, with the call, I believe. And... Yeah, remember something
came up about the word break and it was basically, oh don't use that on amateur bands. Like that
means an emergency. And like I don't know why, but that stuck in my head. yeah, and I always
kind of assumed like the ham radio being kind of like the gentle person's type of radio,
not like some other forms of radio. If somebody ever broke in with any kind of emergency, we
would just immediately stop what we were doing and like probably try to help. whether it was
relaying a message, making a phone call, whatever. I just assume that's kind of how AMRADIO is.
So are there any other stations that would like to offer a comment? Please call now.
Okay, nothing hurt. guess we'll turn it back over to Mike. W3MFB, this is W3DIV. In CR
and GM, yeah, I figured as much. I figured as much, you know, we do leave pauses and, uh...
courtesy especially on digital and digital mounts and RF we do leave major pauses for
digital so if anybody wanted to they could pop in here. We're kind of the dawn of cell
phones and all that stuff but we're not really in a spot with cell phone use and whatnot.
usually call but 911 was down in our Chester County area not too long ago and So the Euclid
area, Exeter area, getting a lot of drop calls. A lot of people are on cell phones. There's
not enough towers up there. I think it was better when it was 4G, then COVID hit and taxes were
high in New York and New Jersey and everybody moved down this way. So there's a lot of drop
calls on all networks up there in that general area. So yeah, I was just kind of curious,
because you hear it on HF a lot. you know, especially like maritime mobile and things like that.
But yeah, no, I get it. I get it. wasn't gung ho on it, but I was just curious. That's all.
So I appreciate it, Greg. And the boys, thank you very much. W3MFB, back to net.
Okay, I don't think there were any other questions indicated. But you know, we'll put it out
for anybody who wants to check in for that final check in to get on the list here on the
Monday night workbench. I almost said Thursday night workbench. Are there any other stations
who would like to get added to the list? Please call now.
Kilo Charlie 3, Yankee Tango Delta.
Hilo Charlie 3, Yankee Tango Delta, over to you.
I don't have any comment.
Okay.
trying to look up the station YTD. That is KC3 YTD. That's Steve. And also you had Bruce
in there, KS4CK. So that gives you some continuity there. This is WA3VE.
Thank you, Ron. I did even worse than that. I don't know what I pressed on my mic, but
I completely changed my radio into some weird frequency mode. And I basically had to power
cycle it to get back, and I missed all of what Steve basically said. But I did not hear Bruce,
so I guess we'll turn it over to him. Steve, was there a question? KC3YTD.
No, I had no question. was just checking in. Over.
Thank you and sorry I missed a lot of your transmission unfortunately because of my stupidity. So
forgive me. I will turn it over to Bruce. K Kilo Sierra for Charlie Kilo, W3DIV on
the Monday night workbench. Yeah, KS4CK, name is Bruce, just checking in and out. Thanks
for having a great net and love listening to it. Just wanted to get my name on the list.
You are officially on the log and welcome. Glad you guys both checked in, Steve and Bruce.
Yeah, make sure to check in frequently. We'll turn it over one more time. there any other
stations that would like to get added to the list? And then if not, we'll go ahead and close
the workbench. Any stations wishing to be added to the list, check in now.
November 3 Oscar Golf Foxtrot.
November 3 Oscar Golf Foxtrot. John West Bradford Township. listen to the net good net again.
Very informative and 73 and three or GF.
John, thanks for checking in. We'll love to hear you here again. Any other stations listed
to check in, please call now.
Okay, nothing heard. Alright, before we close down the workbench, I want to say thanks to
all stations checking in to this edition, this Monday, August 4th edition of the 95 Workbench.
Great questions all around. Bill, I loved your boat anchor question. I learned something huge
about carrier control modulation versus plate modulation and how... doesn't like those
nasty loud audio peaks. Otherwise you can chew up your screens.
save quite a bit of energy.
the energy out of
Yeah, and then let's see, we had Simon, we've got, kudos to Simon for making it in with
your cookie sheet and mag mount. getting rid of the noise on your mobile setup. Looking
at both static electricity as probably a source of that. Anyway, we want to give a big thank
you to Joe, W3GMS, for making the 985 repeater available to the workbench. You are invited
to use the repeater often. That's a great way to show that you appreciate the gift of 985
to the amateur radio community. Finally, we hope to hear you again on Thursday evening
at 8 p.m. during the round table, the 985 round table this week hosted by Jim, AF3Z. This concludes
the workbench for tonight. Feel free to stick around and continue the discussion on 985.
Have a great night and a great week ahead. 73, this is W3, DIB now clear.