WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:12.824 --> 00:00:17.444 Adam Hatcher: Hello and welcome to the 21 Clear Podcast where we talk about 00:00:17.534 --> 00:00:21.884 anything to help you chaos, proof your family business so you can build a great 00:00:21.884 --> 00:00:23.954 company with a healthy family around it. 00:00:24.824 --> 00:00:28.904 I am your host, Adam Hatcher, and today our guest is, uh, 00:00:29.474 --> 00:00:33.014 me, Adam Hatcher and producing. 00:00:33.014 --> 00:00:36.944 And joining me today is Brandon Yello, the co-founder of Snap Market. 00:00:36.944 --> 00:00:37.814 Brandon, how are you? 00:00:38.474 --> 00:00:38.954 Brandon Giella: Hey man. 00:00:38.984 --> 00:00:39.764 Thanks for having me. 00:00:39.854 --> 00:00:43.244 I'm really excited to be here because I think we're gonna have a lot of fun. 00:00:43.454 --> 00:00:44.119 So thanks for having me. 00:00:44.654 --> 00:00:45.224 Adam Hatcher: Adam, absolutely. 00:00:45.224 --> 00:00:46.574 Thank you for being here too. 00:00:46.934 --> 00:00:50.684 Uh, so Brandon, I am starting this podcast. 00:00:50.684 --> 00:00:51.279 It's interesting. 00:00:52.514 --> 00:00:55.934 I grew up in a successful family business. 00:00:56.444 --> 00:01:00.704 I spent 13 years scaling that alongside my cousin, my 00:01:00.704 --> 00:01:03.074 grandfather, my father, my brother. 00:01:03.554 --> 00:01:09.344 And in doing that, and really in the last two years of reflecting on it, I learned 00:01:09.374 --> 00:01:12.644 that you never have a family business. 00:01:13.364 --> 00:01:14.624 you have a family business. 00:01:14.939 --> 00:01:17.789 Inside a company, imagine two boxes. 00:01:17.789 --> 00:01:20.849 There's the company on the outside and the family business on the inside. 00:01:22.199 --> 00:01:25.979 And when I decided to start this podcast, what I wanted to do is every episode's 00:01:25.979 --> 00:01:27.989 gonna be about 20 to 25 minutes. 00:01:27.989 --> 00:01:31.769 We're typically gonna have a guest and we're gonna touch an issue that is 00:01:31.769 --> 00:01:37.649 specific to people who audaciously choose to work together with their family. 00:01:38.864 --> 00:01:41.324 And if you're a trusted advisor to a family business, 00:01:41.324 --> 00:01:42.464 it may be interesting to you. 00:01:42.464 --> 00:01:46.004 But really for those of us that chose to do that, and that's what I chose to 00:01:46.004 --> 00:01:51.164 do for 13 years and what I realized in scaling a business, you've heard that 00:01:51.164 --> 00:01:56.144 phrase, what does it take to work in the business versus on the business? 00:01:56.384 --> 00:02:00.614 So it's hard enough to just work in the business, but then in a company, 00:02:01.334 --> 00:02:04.454 working on the company is really hard, making the time for that. 00:02:04.454 --> 00:02:06.914 But then when I realized working in a family business. 00:02:07.634 --> 00:02:12.134 Is almost none of us ever get the time to actually work on 00:02:12.134 --> 00:02:14.654 that inner family business. 00:02:14.894 --> 00:02:18.134 Remember, the first family that I've talked to since starting 21? 00:02:18.134 --> 00:02:18.644 Clear. 00:02:18.974 --> 00:02:22.064 Uh, it was a mother and father who were scaling their company. 00:02:22.064 --> 00:02:25.934 They had several of their sons and daughters working with them, and we spent 00:02:25.934 --> 00:02:30.404 90 minutes on the phone with each other, and by the time we hung up, it hit me 00:02:30.854 --> 00:02:35.924 that that was probably the most time in several decades that they had spent. 00:02:36.839 --> 00:02:41.819 Dedicated to working and thinking about just that inner family business. 00:02:42.299 --> 00:02:44.129 And so that's why this podcast exists. 00:02:44.129 --> 00:02:50.609 I hope every time someone tunes in by the, they get 20 to 25 minutes where all 00:02:50.609 --> 00:02:53.819 they have to do is think about the family business and just get a little bit better. 00:02:55.844 --> 00:02:59.714 Brandon Giella: I can relate to that because you need time to work on the 00:02:59.714 --> 00:03:04.124 business and I can't imagine working on the business and having a family 00:03:04.304 --> 00:03:05.834 associated with that business as well. 00:03:05.864 --> 00:03:07.364 'cause that's a whole other thing and you're not gonna do 00:03:07.364 --> 00:03:09.884 it in over Thanksgiving, so. 00:03:10.034 --> 00:03:11.144 Adam Hatcher: not do it over Thanksgiving. 00:03:11.624 --> 00:03:11.894 Brandon Giella: right. 00:03:12.014 --> 00:03:12.464 Exactly. 00:03:13.094 --> 00:03:15.524 Adam Hatcher: That's actually, I think that's chapter seven, Brandon. 00:03:15.839 --> 00:03:16.169 Brandon Giella: Okay. 00:03:16.169 --> 00:03:17.159 Yeah, I haven't read the book yet. 00:03:17.159 --> 00:03:20.759 I'm, I'm only in the first chapter, so, um, but, but I'm curious, so 00:03:20.759 --> 00:03:24.719 why, why did you, what, what's like driving you to wanna start 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:28.589 21 Clear and start this podcast in addition to creating that space? 00:03:28.589 --> 00:03:32.579 I mean, what was like, surely you've seen some of these things go wrong before. 00:03:32.579 --> 00:03:35.039 I mean, you grew up in a family business, you've been an advisor to 00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:39.149 family businesses, you have seen it go really well and you've seen it 00:03:39.329 --> 00:03:41.009 maybe, uh, have room for improvement. 00:03:41.309 --> 00:03:43.619 So what, is there something in there that you've seen? 00:03:43.619 --> 00:03:48.239 Like if you get this wrong, it's really difficult, what is that like? 00:03:49.259 --> 00:03:52.109 Adam Hatcher: Well, let me start with, may I start with the light side first? 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:52.349 All right. 00:03:52.589 --> 00:03:53.549 Brandon Giella: Oh gosh, yes, please. 00:03:53.789 --> 00:03:57.389 Adam Hatcher: So when you work together with family, all of 00:03:57.389 --> 00:03:58.889 us really want two things. 00:03:59.054 --> 00:03:59.174 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:03:59.669 --> 00:04:02.609 Adam Hatcher: We want to build a great company, whatever that 00:04:02.609 --> 00:04:06.659 means to the family, and you want to healthy family around it. 00:04:08.459 --> 00:04:11.909 And over the last year and a half, as I've started looking back on 00:04:12.269 --> 00:04:13.589 my own career to this point, I. 00:04:13.859 --> 00:04:16.379 My time around our family's company. 00:04:16.379 --> 00:04:19.409 In our family's company, and then all the stories that people have 00:04:19.409 --> 00:04:20.759 shared with me along the way. 00:04:21.089 --> 00:04:24.599 And then the things I've researched and read, I've wondered. 00:04:24.599 --> 00:04:28.109 So if our goal is to build a great company and have a healthy family, 00:04:28.829 --> 00:04:32.069 why does the opposite happen so often? 00:04:33.234 --> 00:04:37.859 But then I, Brenda, and that's what I call chaos. 00:04:37.859 --> 00:04:41.519 Like why do family businesses succumb to chaos? 00:04:43.289 --> 00:04:49.169 That ultimately can rock the family and drive the value down of the 00:04:49.169 --> 00:04:50.309 company or even eliminate it. 00:04:50.804 --> 00:04:51.224 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:04:52.229 --> 00:04:56.429 Adam Hatcher: And then I have this belief that it's not inevitable. 00:04:57.059 --> 00:04:58.619 So why does the opposite happen? 00:04:59.219 --> 00:05:01.379 And then what can you do about it? 00:05:02.567 --> 00:05:06.407 Brandon Giella: So you, you've seen that where chaos is sort of like a, a default 00:05:06.407 --> 00:05:12.077 mode, you know, entropy in the universe and in a business it inevitably feels 00:05:12.077 --> 00:05:16.427 as though it's going to be chaotic, but it doesn't have to be that way. 00:05:17.087 --> 00:05:21.797 Um, but I'm curious, like, what is it where you've seen, uh, you've got 00:05:21.797 --> 00:05:26.117 some experiences, you've got a story where it actually did go that direction 00:05:26.177 --> 00:05:29.207 and it was very painful and you're. 00:05:30.002 --> 00:05:35.612 In part this podcast is to provide, um, expertise and stories and 00:05:35.672 --> 00:05:38.462 guidance to avoid this kind of end. 00:05:39.032 --> 00:05:40.382 And so tell me about this. 00:05:40.382 --> 00:05:41.732 I, I think you've got a story in mind. 00:05:41.732 --> 00:05:42.812 I know there's some in your book. 00:05:42.932 --> 00:05:43.712 Um, yeah. 00:05:43.712 --> 00:05:44.167 Talk about that. 00:05:44.237 --> 00:05:47.087 Adam Hatcher: Well, and also empathy, Brandon, for someone 00:05:47.087 --> 00:05:50.777 who could say, I know, and there's no story that's gonna be surprising 00:05:50.777 --> 00:05:52.067 once you've worked with family. 00:05:52.337 --> 00:05:53.237 No one else is. 00:05:53.807 --> 00:05:56.657 I have had the opportunity to sit with family businesses. 00:05:56.672 --> 00:06:00.032 That did a couple million dollars and that did tens of billions. 00:06:00.332 --> 00:06:04.082 And what has amazed me is we all tell the same stories. 00:06:04.322 --> 00:06:09.452 Some people get to their vacation destinations in faster ways, but all the 00:06:09.452 --> 00:06:12.002 stories are, all the stories are the same. 00:06:12.632 --> 00:06:18.992 And just like running a great company doesn't happen by accident, 00:06:19.862 --> 00:06:22.382 you might come across a great product or a service. 00:06:22.982 --> 00:06:26.282 Uh, by, by accident or happenstance, but actually building a great 00:06:26.282 --> 00:06:28.022 company takes a lot of effort. 00:06:28.682 --> 00:06:35.972 Likewise, a family business is not healthy, is not good. 00:06:36.662 --> 00:06:38.072 Just by accident. 00:06:38.162 --> 00:06:42.812 Just 'cause you grew up together doesn't mean you can work together and you 00:06:42.812 --> 00:06:47.912 can build a great company together and keep good relationships between you. 00:06:49.217 --> 00:06:53.327 I remember when I first started working in our family's comp company, I went 00:06:53.327 --> 00:06:57.257 to an industry conference and I got to meet Jim Collins who wrote Good to 00:06:57.257 --> 00:07:01.877 Great and Great by Choice, and he was always fascinated and still seems to be 00:07:01.877 --> 00:07:03.797 fascinated by this question of chaos. 00:07:03.797 --> 00:07:08.627 Like how do some businesses go through chaotic times, which are inevitable? 00:07:09.332 --> 00:07:12.512 But seem to make it out better than their comparison companies. 00:07:12.512 --> 00:07:16.772 Well, family businesses are the same way, but the problem when you have that 00:07:16.772 --> 00:07:21.092 family business inside your company is the things that can rock you and test. 00:07:21.092 --> 00:07:25.172 You can either come from the company, it can be the loss of a key executive, it can 00:07:25.172 --> 00:07:30.062 be tariffs, it can be a sudden recession, it can be the loss of a major client. 00:07:30.422 --> 00:07:33.152 Those things can reverberate back into the family business. 00:07:33.992 --> 00:07:38.072 Or it can be things that are specific to the family business. 00:07:38.282 --> 00:07:43.052 It can be personal issues like death and divorce, or it can be these moments that 00:07:43.052 --> 00:07:45.182 are inevitable in a family business. 00:07:45.542 --> 00:07:45.872 It can, 00:07:48.002 --> 00:07:52.622 and they are inevitable in that if you're not prepared for them, they will start. 00:07:52.622 --> 00:07:56.252 What can be a chaotic cycle, for example, uh, when a family 00:07:56.252 --> 00:07:58.172 member wants to join the company? 00:07:59.732 --> 00:08:00.782 On its face. 00:08:00.872 --> 00:08:04.922 That doesn't seem, particularly if you are just starting to work with 00:08:04.922 --> 00:08:08.102 your family, or if you're starting a business and maybe your sons and 00:08:08.102 --> 00:08:12.032 daughters are starting to get to an age where they're expressing interest, that 00:08:12.032 --> 00:08:13.922 may not seem like a critical moment. 00:08:13.922 --> 00:08:16.262 Hey, you grew up together, you supported each other. 00:08:16.562 --> 00:08:19.862 Um, they even maybe came to the Christmas gatherings for the company. 00:08:20.492 --> 00:08:21.722 Clearly, you can work together. 00:08:21.872 --> 00:08:24.692 That's actually a major, a major moment. 00:08:24.692 --> 00:08:25.772 I talked to Brandon. 00:08:25.772 --> 00:08:26.672 I still remember. 00:08:27.302 --> 00:08:33.242 I talked to a guy who destroyed, who lost a 30-year-old family business 00:08:33.932 --> 00:08:39.572 over an argument with his brother about whether or not their nephew, the nephew, 00:08:39.602 --> 00:08:41.222 was qualified to join the company. 00:08:42.062 --> 00:08:45.032 They didn't have any criteria for how a family member might join. 00:08:45.032 --> 00:08:47.672 They built a successful business for almost 30 years, 00:08:47.912 --> 00:08:49.202 had hired plenty of people. 00:08:49.562 --> 00:08:52.802 But there was something different when that family business moment came 00:08:52.802 --> 00:08:59.012 along and that issue in itself and being unprepared for it, put chaos in. 00:08:59.222 --> 00:09:03.332 'cause imagine those two squares put chaos right into the center of the company. 00:09:03.632 --> 00:09:08.672 It ended up reverberating out and not only did it rip up the relationship between 00:09:08.672 --> 00:09:13.172 the two brothers, but ultimately it drove down the value of the company and 00:09:13.262 --> 00:09:15.062 ended the ownership of it in the family. 00:09:16.622 --> 00:09:20.912 Brandon Giella: That's amazing because when you're running a a, a company with 00:09:20.912 --> 00:09:23.552 your family, you would think this has gotta be the best thing in the world. 00:09:23.582 --> 00:09:26.102 Who wouldn't wanna work with their family, provided that they love 00:09:26.162 --> 00:09:28.562 their family and get along with them, and all that sort of thing. 00:09:28.922 --> 00:09:30.452 And so there's that. 00:09:30.452 --> 00:09:32.942 And then there's also, yeah, you gotta hire people. 00:09:33.032 --> 00:09:34.082 We've got a process for that. 00:09:34.082 --> 00:09:35.582 We've hired a tons of people like that. 00:09:35.852 --> 00:09:38.102 But when those two things come together. 00:09:38.642 --> 00:09:44.072 It is a a different dynamic that from your experience, people are not prepared for. 00:09:44.867 --> 00:09:52.547 Adam Hatcher: You are mixing, you're mixing the forever with the temporary, 00:09:53.087 --> 00:09:56.597 uh, or the really, maybe think of it like the conditional with the unconditional. 00:09:57.122 --> 00:09:58.142 Because family 00:09:58.172 --> 00:09:58.352 Brandon Giella: it. 00:09:58.352 --> 00:09:58.532 Yeah. 00:09:59.102 --> 00:10:00.272 Adam Hatcher: family's unconditional. 00:10:00.752 --> 00:10:02.912 They even think about, think about a wedding photo. 00:10:03.602 --> 00:10:08.312 So in a wedding photo, you think of the, the bridesmaids and 00:10:08.312 --> 00:10:10.022 the groomsmen on either side. 00:10:10.412 --> 00:10:13.622 If you take that picture, my wife and I just celebrated our 20th anniversary. 00:10:14.162 --> 00:10:14.762 Take that. 00:10:15.182 --> 00:10:15.663 Well, thank you. 00:10:16.532 --> 00:10:17.342 Take that picture. 00:10:17.342 --> 00:10:20.257 20 years later, there may be. 00:10:20.837 --> 00:10:23.327 Some people who have faded, those relationships 00:10:23.327 --> 00:10:23.837 have faded. 00:10:24.317 --> 00:10:28.577 There may be new people to add, like those always change. 00:10:28.697 --> 00:10:34.157 But in that wedding photo, there's forever a spot that is only for my father-in-law 00:10:34.837 --> 00:10:34.917 Brandon Giella: Hmm 00:10:35.207 --> 00:10:39.227 Adam Hatcher: like that is he is my father-in-law unconditionally. 00:10:39.447 --> 00:10:39.867 Brandon Giella: mm-hmm. 00:10:40.862 --> 00:10:43.262 Adam Hatcher: And that's the unconditional nature of family. 00:10:43.262 --> 00:10:46.082 Even if those relationships, and I love my father-in-law, even if 00:10:46.082 --> 00:10:46.292 those 00:10:46.292 --> 00:10:50.402 relationships, even if those relationships in your family change or get 00:10:50.402 --> 00:10:55.442 difficult, they're always, that spot's always for your mother, your 00:10:55.442 --> 00:11:00.692 father-in-law, your sister, your cousin, your brother, and in family businesses, 00:11:01.082 --> 00:11:05.552 when you put those inside of a company, you have mixed the conditional nature 00:11:05.552 --> 00:11:08.282 of business with the unconditional. 00:11:08.657 --> 00:11:12.047 There's this, Brandon, it is on day one. 00:11:12.347 --> 00:11:15.617 There is an inherent tension that comes with that. 00:11:16.097 --> 00:11:22.487 And just because you grew up together, just because, uh, you, you heard the 00:11:22.487 --> 00:11:27.737 family talk about the company does not prepare you for living with that tension. 00:11:27.797 --> 00:11:30.977 And by the way, it shows up on the first day. 00:11:31.637 --> 00:11:36.587 I, I, I tell the story in the book and my grandparents worked together. 00:11:37.112 --> 00:11:39.752 Uh, the family's company was started in 1973. 00:11:40.682 --> 00:11:43.052 Uh, they worked together for one day. 00:11:43.742 --> 00:11:47.762 My grand, my grandfather and my grandmother got into an argument on 00:11:47.762 --> 00:11:53.372 the first day that most employee, employer relationships would not have 00:11:53.372 --> 00:11:57.452 gotten into, but it ended, it ended their working relationship on the 00:11:57.452 --> 00:12:00.962 first day because it's just different. 00:12:01.622 --> 00:12:05.402 Um, and it exists on the first day, if I could tell family. 00:12:05.927 --> 00:12:08.417 People who are considering having family work with them. 00:12:08.987 --> 00:12:14.207 One thing is that you can never start working on that family business 00:12:14.267 --> 00:12:17.297 inside the company soon enough. 00:12:17.867 --> 00:12:22.427 I remember talking to someone who, their family had a company 00:12:22.427 --> 00:12:24.017 that was a couple of decades old. 00:12:24.017 --> 00:12:27.737 They had an in-law who was running the company and the person I was talking 00:12:27.737 --> 00:12:30.467 to, their children were younger. 00:12:31.037 --> 00:12:31.547 Um. 00:12:31.607 --> 00:12:35.207 Yeah, and yet they were starting to wonder if their children might 00:12:35.207 --> 00:12:36.887 have a future in the family company. 00:12:37.667 --> 00:12:40.757 It's never too early to start the conversation because 00:12:40.757 --> 00:12:42.797 you are inevitably moving. 00:12:42.827 --> 00:12:46.577 When you have a family business, you're inevitably moving toward a 00:12:46.577 --> 00:12:48.677 healthy place or a chaotic place. 00:12:49.157 --> 00:12:50.807 A lot like a, company. 00:12:50.807 --> 00:12:52.757 I remember my father taught me this right when I started 00:12:52.757 --> 00:12:53.837 working in the family company. 00:12:54.227 --> 00:12:57.167 He said, Adam, the business is either growing or shrinking. 00:12:57.977 --> 00:13:00.797 If it's holding still, that's just a precursor to shrinking. 00:13:01.577 --> 00:13:01.667 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:13:01.967 --> 00:13:05.867 Adam Hatcher: And in the same way, that's the company, the family business 00:13:05.927 --> 00:13:11.927 is either getting better or putting itself into danger of sliding into chaos. 00:13:12.407 --> 00:13:17.507 And so that's why I started Twenty One Clear to help people that take 00:13:17.507 --> 00:13:21.077 this audacious challenge of working together, build a great company with a 00:13:21.077 --> 00:13:26.267 healthy family, and in building out a process for helping people walk through 00:13:26.267 --> 00:13:30.527 and see how they're making progress at creating a great family business. 00:13:31.112 --> 00:13:36.152 And then the podcast is again, it's just supposed to be 20, 25 minutes, and we'll 00:13:36.152 --> 00:13:41.642 constantly bring guests on who are gonna touch something about a family business 00:13:41.672 --> 00:13:43.202 to help you make a little bit of progress. 00:13:44.087 --> 00:13:44.297 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:13:45.167 --> 00:13:45.977 I wonder if. 00:13:46.367 --> 00:13:51.197 So, of course this is not like a hard sales pitch in talking about 21 Clear, but 00:13:51.197 --> 00:13:55.697 I wonder if you could provide listeners like a, uh, some takeaways or some things 00:13:55.697 --> 00:14:00.617 that you've learned, like what is not necessarily the process, but what are some 00:14:00.617 --> 00:14:06.317 things that maybe their principles, maybe they're like focus areas or something 00:14:06.317 --> 00:14:08.837 like that, that you have learned that. 00:14:09.632 --> 00:14:14.072 Gives you a really good setup for running a very healthy family business. 00:14:14.072 --> 00:14:18.392 So I know you've talked about trust, you know, communication, things like that. 00:14:18.392 --> 00:14:22.442 Like what is some things that you are advising people about that 00:14:22.442 --> 00:14:26.522 they should keep in mind and listen for in future episodes and, and 00:14:26.522 --> 00:14:28.052 guest stories and things like that? 00:14:29.342 --> 00:14:32.582 Adam Hatcher: The first thing you need to know, you have a 00:14:32.582 --> 00:14:33.632 family business inside your 00:14:33.632 --> 00:14:34.532 Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm. 00:14:34.862 --> 00:14:38.462 Adam Hatcher: I have, I remember getting to, one of the early families 00:14:38.462 --> 00:14:42.092 I talked to got into an argument with the majority shareholder about 00:14:42.092 --> 00:14:45.542 whether or not they actually had a family business des, despite their 00:14:45.542 --> 00:14:46.712 daughter working in the company, 00:14:47.147 --> 00:14:47.507 Brandon Giella: Wow. 00:14:47.597 --> 00:14:48.077 Yeah. 00:14:48.322 --> 00:14:48.612 Yeah. 00:14:48.812 --> 00:14:51.182 Adam Hatcher: they looked at other family companies that family owned 00:14:51.182 --> 00:14:54.122 companies they knew and they said, we're not that big or that complicated. 00:14:54.482 --> 00:14:59.642 But the moment, the moment you have family members working together in a company that 00:14:59.642 --> 00:15:01.682 family owns, you have a family business. 00:15:02.207 --> 00:15:02.267 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:15:02.447 --> 00:15:05.717 Adam Hatcher: And you have to start working on it because again, you're either 00:15:05.717 --> 00:15:09.647 getting better or you're putting yourself at risk of chaos and vulnerability. 00:15:09.647 --> 00:15:10.637 So that's the first one. 00:15:11.237 --> 00:15:15.647 Uh, then second, you need to know how you're doing. 00:15:16.697 --> 00:15:20.297 I got challenged by a few of the first several of the families 00:15:20.297 --> 00:15:21.587 I talked to at the beginning. 00:15:21.887 --> 00:15:26.357 I got challenged when they said, well, how are we doing? 00:15:26.807 --> 00:15:28.817 Uh, I talked to one of 'em and several of the family members 00:15:28.817 --> 00:15:30.227 like playing golf and, and I. 00:15:30.797 --> 00:15:33.227 I'm recording this from Augusta, Georgia, uh, 00:15:33.782 --> 00:15:34.742 Brandon Giella: Right after the masters, 00:15:34.787 --> 00:15:35.687 Adam Hatcher: right after the Masters. 00:15:35.687 --> 00:15:38.327 Ray's Creek actually runs through, uh, my backyard. 00:15:38.627 --> 00:15:42.917 Uh, and, and so they were a family and they played golf and they said, well, 00:15:42.917 --> 00:15:45.197 how do you show us how we're doing? 00:15:45.197 --> 00:15:47.867 Kind of like if we played golf, we knew how well we played that day. 00:15:47.867 --> 00:15:53.807 So I actually created an assessment, a a, a family business specific assessment. 00:15:54.197 --> 00:15:56.027 So you need to know if you have a family business, then you 00:15:56.027 --> 00:15:57.107 need to know how it's doing. 00:15:57.422 --> 00:15:59.822 And then from there, any of us are gonna want to get better. 00:15:59.972 --> 00:16:00.692 How do we in? 00:16:00.872 --> 00:16:06.062 You can never stop hard moments and storms from blowing in, but 00:16:06.062 --> 00:16:12.062 you can prevent yourself from being exposed to, to chaos in it. 00:16:12.122 --> 00:16:18.062 And imagine the center of a wheel and spokes at the center of it. 00:16:18.527 --> 00:16:21.767 There's trust between the family members, whether you're a family owner, 00:16:21.767 --> 00:16:26.267 a family employee, or some combination of family owner-employee family 00:16:26.267 --> 00:16:28.247 member who's just around the company. 00:16:29.777 --> 00:16:31.097 Do you trust each other? 00:16:31.607 --> 00:16:36.977 Both the ability and the character of the different family members who are engaged 00:16:36.977 --> 00:16:41.117 in the company, if that's the center, and then off of that put a few spokes. 00:16:41.777 --> 00:16:44.177 'cause that's building trust and that's important. 00:16:44.327 --> 00:16:45.797 That holds everything together. 00:16:46.142 --> 00:16:48.572 But you've gotta compliment that with some key decisions. 00:16:48.902 --> 00:16:53.042 A family has to decide how are people gonna join, how are they 00:16:53.042 --> 00:16:55.532 gonna stay, how are they gonna exit? 00:16:55.802 --> 00:16:58.172 And that can be mid-career or succession. 00:16:58.622 --> 00:17:02.492 And then regardless of whether you're working in the company, how 00:17:02.492 --> 00:17:04.322 does the family co-exist around it? 00:17:04.322 --> 00:17:08.882 So you've got trust that holds all of that together, but then families have to make 00:17:09.002 --> 00:17:11.822 key decisions around those four buckets. 00:17:11.822 --> 00:17:12.137 It's 00:17:13.367 --> 00:17:14.897 do you have a family business? 00:17:14.957 --> 00:17:15.857 How's it doing? 00:17:16.157 --> 00:17:20.207 And then that's a, framework for making decisions and building 00:17:20.207 --> 00:17:22.252 trust to improve wherever you are. 00:17:24.302 --> 00:17:28.082 Brandon Giella: What I love about you is that you have the experience and then 00:17:28.082 --> 00:17:33.362 you also have a process of going through this that anybody can go through, and 00:17:33.362 --> 00:17:37.052 that's different from what I gather is the things that you've told me before. 00:17:38.252 --> 00:17:42.992 That you can try to assess some of these things with others that are 00:17:42.992 --> 00:17:47.492 close to the family, like a wealth advisor, an accountant, a lawyer. 00:17:48.272 --> 00:17:54.212 Um, and you have talked to me in the past about like, that may not go well for you. 00:17:55.412 --> 00:17:57.092 Can you talk to me about that a little bit? 00:17:57.092 --> 00:17:58.352 Like, what do you mean by that? 00:17:58.352 --> 00:18:00.092 Because I, I find that a fascinating insight. 00:18:00.572 --> 00:18:03.752 Adam Hatcher: a I tell an embarrassing story on myself? 00:18:04.352 --> 00:18:04.772 Brandon Giella: Please do. 00:18:04.892 --> 00:18:05.132 Yes. 00:18:05.537 --> 00:18:07.427 Adam Hatcher: A good friend of mine, and I hope after this story 00:18:07.427 --> 00:18:08.807 he'll still be a podcast guest. 00:18:08.807 --> 00:18:12.107 So, uh, his name's Shane Arthur and he runs an executive 00:18:12.107 --> 00:18:13.607 coaching company outta Raleigh. 00:18:13.607 --> 00:18:18.227 He's great at what he does and Shane put up, uh, so we're recording this in April. 00:18:18.407 --> 00:18:24.227 So we just came through March Madness and, uh, I don't know when people 00:18:24.227 --> 00:18:26.902 are listening to this, but Duke University was a one seed in that. 00:18:27.692 --> 00:18:27.782 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:18:28.382 --> 00:18:31.022 Adam Hatcher: Their number one player, probably the number one draft pick 00:18:31.022 --> 00:18:33.062 had turned out is gonna go pro. 00:18:33.662 --> 00:18:39.152 And Shane put up a post on his LinkedIn about this person's decision 00:18:39.152 --> 00:18:40.832 should he have stayed in college 00:18:41.222 --> 00:18:41.702 or not. 00:18:42.572 --> 00:18:46.022 It was that decision and I actually made a comment on what I thought 00:18:46.022 --> 00:18:49.082 he should do, and I thought it was a pretty educated comment. 00:18:49.082 --> 00:18:52.112 Brandon, I spent seven years as a head of human resources. 00:18:52.442 --> 00:18:54.632 I, I have known athletes 00:18:55.892 --> 00:18:56.162 and 00:18:56.162 --> 00:18:56.642 then. 00:18:57.167 --> 00:18:57.407 Edge. 00:18:57.587 --> 00:18:57.917 Yeah. 00:18:57.917 --> 00:19:03.287 And, but then the next two people that commented on Shane's Post had 00:19:03.287 --> 00:19:08.477 both been high level college athletes who had an opportunity to turn pro 00:19:09.122 --> 00:19:09.422 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:19:09.827 --> 00:19:14.867 Adam Hatcher: and the perspective they gave on, uh, Cooper Flag is the name 00:19:14.867 --> 00:19:18.497 of the athlete on, on Cooper Flag's decision whether or not to go pro. 00:19:19.217 --> 00:19:19.727 Yeah. 00:19:19.727 --> 00:19:25.847 I mean, I, I had a point, but they had a point and experience. 00:19:26.912 --> 00:19:28.952 And actually brought perspective. 00:19:28.952 --> 00:19:33.542 I could have never had, 'cause I had never played, I've never played high 00:19:33.542 --> 00:19:35.852 level college athletics or been recruited. 00:19:36.302 --> 00:19:39.602 I've seen the same thing in family businesses. 00:19:39.902 --> 00:19:42.632 There are a lot of people when you have a family business inside a company 00:19:42.632 --> 00:19:43.832 that want to talk to you about it. 00:19:44.587 --> 00:19:44.667 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:19:45.242 --> 00:19:49.622 Adam Hatcher: Uh, and I, it can be an accountant, an attorney, a wealth manager, 00:19:50.042 --> 00:19:54.602 and it could be people that have worked with other family owned companies as well. 00:19:54.602 --> 00:19:55.742 And they do have a place. 00:19:56.357 --> 00:20:00.527 But there is something that is totally different when you have 00:20:00.527 --> 00:20:02.447 been the one that worked in it. 00:20:03.347 --> 00:20:07.007 It, I was at a conference of some wealth managers, and these were people who worked 00:20:07.007 --> 00:20:13.157 with phenomenal family owned companies, families of tremendous wealth, and it was 00:20:13.157 --> 00:20:17.897 a couple a day conference and somewhere in the second day, if you wanted, if you want 00:20:17.897 --> 00:20:22.187 an example, somewhere in the second day, uh, I, I put my hand up and I said, Hey. 00:20:22.277 --> 00:20:23.747 And it had about 20 people in the room. 00:20:24.407 --> 00:20:24.677 Uh. 00:20:25.067 --> 00:20:28.397 And I was the only one in the room who had ever worked with their own family. 00:20:28.877 --> 00:20:29.957 They were all advisors. 00:20:29.957 --> 00:20:33.407 So I was very junior to them in advising families. 00:20:33.767 --> 00:20:36.167 But I was the only one who had actually worked in a company. 00:20:36.587 --> 00:20:40.427 And I said, Hey, I've noticed over the last couple days, anytime we, 00:20:40.697 --> 00:20:46.817 anyone in the room has talked about the next generation, so not the owning 00:20:46.817 --> 00:20:51.587 or controlling generation, but that next or rising generation, we've 00:20:51.587 --> 00:20:54.137 called them boys, girls, and kids. 00:20:54.377 --> 00:20:54.857 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:20:57.017 --> 00:20:58.037 Adam Hatcher: Someone had just told a story. 00:20:58.037 --> 00:20:59.537 I said the story you just told. 00:21:00.137 --> 00:21:02.387 I think the boy was 53 years old. 00:21:03.107 --> 00:21:03.377 Brandon Giella: Wow. 00:21:04.067 --> 00:21:06.887 Adam Hatcher: And when you're working with, when you haven't 00:21:06.887 --> 00:21:09.647 worked with your own family, you don't know what that feels like. 00:21:10.517 --> 00:21:13.367 But I've been at the chamber of it as an executive. 00:21:13.517 --> 00:21:16.967 When someone with my brother, who's also a sales executive and had 00:21:16.967 --> 00:21:19.367 someone look at my father and say, well, these your boys, like well. 00:21:19.802 --> 00:21:23.702 We're married and our wives have advanced degrees, and our executive leaders, like 00:21:23.702 --> 00:21:29.072 we have children, like my, my sister hasn't been a girl since for a long time. 00:21:29.702 --> 00:21:30.812 Don't call her that. 00:21:31.622 --> 00:21:36.332 And that's, it's kind of a funny example, but Brandon, I've read some 00:21:36.332 --> 00:21:39.692 really great books by some people who have studied family businesses 00:21:40.112 --> 00:21:42.992 and there's some stuff in the stories and examples and advice they 00:21:42.992 --> 00:21:44.852 give that just need another click. 00:21:45.422 --> 00:21:47.492 They need that inside perspective as well. 00:21:47.837 --> 00:21:48.737 And you can't get it. 00:21:48.737 --> 00:21:51.917 Just like I couldn't get it by watching sports. 00:21:52.517 --> 00:21:55.667 I couldn't give a good advice to Cooper flag watching sports. 00:21:56.027 --> 00:21:59.747 You need, there's something different when you've worked inside, when you've 00:21:59.747 --> 00:22:03.167 been in the boardroom, when you've been in the executive suite, when you've 00:22:03.167 --> 00:22:04.997 had to, my phrase is, go to the island. 00:22:05.567 --> 00:22:09.827 When you have to have that hard family business conversation and 00:22:09.827 --> 00:22:14.117 it's, it feels like the most lonely place you could go, but you have to 00:22:14.117 --> 00:22:17.327 go there 'cause you owe it to the family, the company, and the clients. 00:22:17.432 --> 00:22:17.792 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:22:18.992 --> 00:22:23.582 What it makes me think of is I've been to business school, I have an MBA. 00:22:24.797 --> 00:22:30.437 Running a business is totally different experience from getting an MBA and 00:22:30.437 --> 00:22:33.047 being in business school and doing financial models and things like that. 00:22:33.107 --> 00:22:36.467 Like I get the gist, I get the topics, the concepts, but running 00:22:36.467 --> 00:22:38.507 a company is totally different. 00:22:38.837 --> 00:22:43.577 The burden, the responsibility, the, the late nights, you don't get that in school. 00:22:43.997 --> 00:22:46.547 And so I I, it's kind of a parallel the kind of things 00:22:46.547 --> 00:22:47.387 that you're talking about here. 00:22:47.462 --> 00:22:47.942 Adam Hatcher: It is. 00:22:47.942 --> 00:22:54.452 I, I told someone recently a, a, uh, I met a phenomenal executive in a 00:22:54.452 --> 00:22:58.682 publicly traded company once, and he was the one that sat down with the CEO 00:22:58.682 --> 00:23:03.032 and pointed out some strategic gaps in the company that he wanted to fix. 00:23:03.767 --> 00:23:07.157 And all of his fellow execs held him up as a hero. 00:23:07.282 --> 00:23:08.867 And, and I told him, I was like, that's great. 00:23:08.867 --> 00:23:13.907 Now I want you to, if you wanna understand a family business, have that be your 00:23:13.907 --> 00:23:16.667 father, have that be your grandfather. 00:23:16.897 --> 00:23:16.977 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:23:17.687 --> 00:23:20.417 Adam Hatcher: Uh, you may have given a performance review, but if you're 00:23:20.417 --> 00:23:22.367 my dad, you had to give a perform. 00:23:22.427 --> 00:23:23.927 I reported to my father for 13 00:23:24.167 --> 00:23:24.247 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:23:24.247 --> 00:23:24.248 Yeah. 00:23:25.217 --> 00:23:27.047 Adam Hatcher: He had to give a performance review to your son. 00:23:27.747 --> 00:23:27.827 Brandon Giella: Hmm. 00:23:28.427 --> 00:23:28.847 Adam Hatcher: It's. 00:23:29.537 --> 00:23:30.977 There is an extra layer. 00:23:30.977 --> 00:23:33.917 That's why it's that company and then there's that other family 00:23:33.917 --> 00:23:35.297 business layer on the other side. 00:23:35.737 --> 00:23:36.677 Brandon Giella: That's so powerful. 00:23:37.622 --> 00:23:41.432 Well, I love that you have this experience and you're, you're very seasoned. 00:23:41.432 --> 00:23:43.142 You've got like an amazing. 00:23:43.952 --> 00:23:45.392 Uh, bio or cv. 00:23:45.392 --> 00:23:46.052 I just love it. 00:23:46.112 --> 00:23:50.132 Um, and so I'm really excited for you to apply that experience, tell these 00:23:50.132 --> 00:23:53.072 stories, you know, the, the kind of thing where like you were there, you 00:23:53.072 --> 00:23:57.872 were in the room, and have other people who are in the room and doing it and, 00:23:57.872 --> 00:24:00.872 and the kind of things that they've learned because I think it's really key, 00:24:00.932 --> 00:24:05.372 um, to have that kind of storytelling and that perspective with the expertise 00:24:05.372 --> 00:24:06.662 that you have later on top of that. 00:24:06.662 --> 00:24:06.812 So. 00:24:07.217 --> 00:24:10.217 I'm really excited for the show and I'm excited to meet some of these guests 00:24:10.217 --> 00:24:13.517 that are gonna be coming on because I know they're all gonna be as illustrious, 00:24:13.547 --> 00:24:15.317 as inimitable as you're going to be. 00:24:15.317 --> 00:24:18.887 And so I can't wait to meet them and, and hear, and I'm excited for listeners 00:24:18.887 --> 00:24:22.877 to get, get an inside take on who is Adam Hatcher, what is 21 Clear? 00:24:22.877 --> 00:24:23.657 And what are we doing here? 00:24:23.657 --> 00:24:24.917 So I'm really, really stoked. 00:24:25.502 --> 00:24:27.392 Adam Hatcher: Yeah, I, I'm excited about it too. 00:24:27.452 --> 00:24:29.312 And we will have a diversity there. 00:24:29.312 --> 00:24:32.822 There, there will be people that are, have worked with family businesses or 00:24:32.822 --> 00:24:37.502 been in a family business or just worked around, worked around family companies. 00:24:37.502 --> 00:24:41.762 But what we're gonna do, Brandon, is filter everything back through that lens. 00:24:42.032 --> 00:24:44.252 So we'll filter everything back through that lens. 00:24:44.807 --> 00:24:46.877 Of creating a healthy family business. 00:24:46.967 --> 00:24:49.907 So there's a great company with a solid family around it. 00:24:50.942 --> 00:24:51.362 Brandon Giella: Amazing. 00:24:51.482 --> 00:24:51.902 Amazing. 00:24:52.082 --> 00:24:52.412 Amen. 00:24:53.192 --> 00:24:55.112 Well, Adam, thank you. 00:24:55.442 --> 00:24:57.842 I'm excited and we'll see you next episode. 00:24:58.157 --> 00:24:58.877 Adam Hatcher: Sounds great. 00:24:58.877 --> 00:25:02.087 So for everybody who tuned in, thank you so much. 00:25:02.087 --> 00:25:06.497 This is the Pilot, it's the first episode of the 21 Clear Podcast. 00:25:06.557 --> 00:25:07.457 Uh, Brandon. 00:25:07.862 --> 00:25:09.992 Uh, thank you so much for hosting. 00:25:09.992 --> 00:25:11.852 This is Brandon Ello from Snap Market. 00:25:12.452 --> 00:25:20.282 Our theme, our bumper is, uh, still hot by Nick d and Connor Drake chosen, uh, 00:25:20.312 --> 00:25:22.442 by my son Harris, and my son Andrew. 00:25:23.282 --> 00:25:26.732 So I look forward to, uh, the next episodes we have together. 00:25:27.212 --> 00:25:29.882 You can subscribe to the newsletter, visit us on the website, or 00:25:29.882 --> 00:25:31.052 looked at us on LinkedIn. 00:25:31.292 --> 00:25:32.432 Thank you so much for joining. 00:25:32.432 --> 00:25:33.782 We'll talk to you again soon. 00:25:34.697 --> 00:25:35.237 Brandon Giella: Bye.