Talking Biotech 395  Synthetic Circuits in Plant Biology
Dr. James Lloyd (guest), University of Western Australia

Dr. Kevin Folta (host)
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Kevin Folta: [00:00:00] Hi everybody, and welcome to this week's Talking Biotech podcast by Colabra. Now here on talking biotech, we frequently discussed the idea of adding or deleting or editing, repairing a gene to achieve some sort of desired outcome. And in biology, we've been doing this for a long time, probably going back almost 50 years.

But the toolbox we're using is typically derived from the components that biology gave us. Repurposing existing enzymes in their molecular control elements, just in new ways. Now, one constant implant is that we're typically solving gene expression issues with viral promoters. So the part of the, uh, gene that turns, uh, a downstream gene on or off.

Okay? So, uh, it's turned on all the time. It's kinda like pounding a thumb tack with a sledgehammer. It, it, it's just on all the time. Constituently in all tissues, all times high level [00:01:00] and there's plenty of room for nuance. And so if we're going to tweak the knobs and dials at control plant processes, rather than just mash on one master switch, we need a finely tuned series of circuits that can provide precision in the timing and location of gene expression.

So today our guest is Dr. James Lloyd. He and collaborators are just one of several international teams working in this space. They are at the Australian Research Council Center for Excellence in Plant Energy Biology in the School of Molecular Sciences at the University of Western Australia in Perth, Australia.

Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Lloyd. 

James Lloyd: Uh, it's great to be here. I'm a, I'm a big fan of your work. 

Kevin Folta: Oh, really? Well that, thank you very much. I'm glad that you're here cause this is a really cool topic that we really haven't explored very much on the podcast. So when we're talking about the ability to reprogram a plant using a synthetic circuit, what are we talking about?[00:02:00] 

James Lloyd: Yeah, so our, the aim of what we're trying to do is better control of where and when you turn a gene on within a plant. And I think our tools for genetic engineering at the moment, implant are a little limited. Um, So a genetic circuit is an anal, uh, is analogous to an electrical circuit. And so we're not literally adding electrodes to the plants, but instead we're using the same mathematical principles that underline the, the on and off, true or false logic of electrical circuits.

And we're taking those ideas into how we control, um, where and when we turn genes often on within a plant. 

Kevin Folta: Yeah, but we can already do that, right? I mean, we've been turning on jeans, turning off jeans, deleting genes. Um, now with gene editing, we can delete, you know, specific parts of genes. Um, why do we need synthetic circuits?

James Lloyd: I. Yeah, so I, I think that's a, a really great point. And we've [00:03:00] done fantastic things with breeding, with current genetic engineering tools and with the advent of faster, better genome editing tools, like from crispr, we can do amazing things. Um, but I still think we're quite limited in some aspects. So for a lot of the genetically engineered crops we rely on strong, always on viral promoters, and That's great.

You're just trying to turn on. Like for insect resistance to get rid of pests, that eating your plant, that's great, but if you wanted to fine tune something, so for example, um, genes that are turned on to fight pathogens that are infecting a plant are quite often toxic and damaging to the plant. So they're, they're like, Giving the plant an autoimmune disease.

And as somebody with an autoimmune disease, I can tell you that's no fun. And farmers would not want a plant that's always slightly sick because it's turning on a defense gene. And so if you can fine tune where and when those very strong responses [00:04:00] are turned on, then. We hopefully can get better, uh, addition of new traits into the, the crops.

Many of the, uh, inducible systems we have at the moment are maybe not the best for using in the field. They rely on often things like, um, human hormones, so that's not really ideal for the field. So with genetic circuits, we're hoping to be able to have the best of both worlds where we can get strong induction of a.

Target gene that could confer a favorable trait, but we eliminate those side effects like the autoimmune disease, like features. 

Kevin Folta: Yeah, it's, it's interesting because you bring up the idea that we really don't have a lot of good controls for a plant gene. And if you would've asked me in the 1990s, how many will we have in 2023, I would've said a thousand.

Because it seemed like we would have so many inducible promoters from either, you know, light or weird chemicals or whatever. And really we still are with dexamethasone and maybe a couple [00:05:00] other things that we can use as inducible promoters. It's pretty surprising. 

James Lloyd: Absolutely. I, I completely agree. And I've, I, and even as an undergraduate, I spent some time working in industry as an internship.

And you know, this was many, you know, over a decade ago now, and they were at the time talking about, well, what good inducible systems for the field are there? And that there was really a lack of any good tools. And I don't think things have progressed much yet. I've seen a couple of things in using things like light, for example, be discussed in the literature recently, and I'm hopeful that maybe they can be applied.

But yeah, I agree with you. There's a lack of any useful tools when really I think that should be a key focus about technology and plans. 

Kevin Folta: Well, how does biology already use bullying logic gates and, and uh, processes like this in natural processes? 

James Lloyd: So, yeah, I mean it sometimes hard to think about biology and reducing it to like true or false, on or off.

[00:06:00] But I think that even if you go back to the very first characterized, uh, example of gene regulation, the lack opera on, which is taught in a lot of biology undergrad classes around the world, and win the Nobel Prize in 1965. When I look at the Laron, I immediately think, well, that looks like a gene circuit to me.

So, you know, it's turned on by the specific sugar lactose, but then the preferred sugar glucose turns it off and it even overrides the presence of, uh, lactose to turn it off. So it acts as a, a dominant. Switch to turn it off. And that to me looks like what we describe in logic as an implied B gate. And so we, even with that very first example, you can see how that does appear to.

Kevin Folta: Yeah, it's it, and it's a great example. It's really kind of cool because we talk about all the different operas and, you know, our protic biology classes and, and really that's all they are. It is pretty cool [00:07:00] stuff. So, so what's been done already in plants using these kinds of recombinant circuits? 

James Lloyd: So in plants, uh, not so much.

So microbes have years of advance on us. Um, great circuit development in bacteria and yeast and even mammalian cell culture. But I think, um, it's taken a long time for the plant field to catch up. I think part of it is that we lack a good cell culture system, which has really helped other systems and so often we're working with either.

You know, isolated tissues or, um, plants are working with the whole plants, which have very long generation times, so the, you know, it takes a very long time to grow them. Um, but for gene circuits in plants, uh, we've seen a couple of systems being published, uh, last year. One from myself and my collaborators at the University of Western Australia and, and.

In the lab of, uh, Ryan Lister, where we, uh, use Recombinase to, uh, turn, uh, gene circuits on and off. We've also seen, um, Jim [00:08:00] Bro at Stanford publishing an elegant system for a gene circuits using transcription factors, um, uh, in plants as well as, uh, Jennifer NEM House's lab in America as well. That, uh, has built some systems of, um, June 

Kevin Folta: circuits.

Yeah. So let's go back and go through this step by step. Are these just specific promoters that are maybe synthetic or, or that have been identified that interact with a specific transcription factor that's, that has some sort of, um, uh, synthetic, uh, domain or something that can be activated by a specific ligand?

Or are these things that are normally not found in biology that are. Placed into the context of the cell, or are these just, uh, things that already exist that get a little bit of a tweak to be able to control them? 

James Lloyd: Uh, that's a great question and I think we see examples of, uh, various different ways of doing this.

[00:09:00] And a really core idea for synthetic gene circuits is you want it to be insulated away from other activities within the cell. So you want at least some level of what we call in the field of functionality, but really it's just a way of having it slightly separated away from. The rest of the organism.

And, you know, maybe it's like off topic from your question, but um, one way I always think about it is when you're building an electrical circuit, you know, you've got to obey the laws of physics and the conditions that you are working with. But when you're working with biological circuits, you are really working with the laws of the cell.

Yes. The laws of physics. Fundamental, but within one cellular context, things can be very different from another cellular context. So for example, some DNA sequences that, you know, turn on a gene that we call promoters. Uh, these will respond very differently between different organisms, especially between.

Plants and microbes or animals. They, they, they, they really [00:10:00] do function very differently. Other genetic components are shared between these different organisms. So, um, that's a really major, um, uh, issue. But, um, for many of the gene circuits, uh, they use different components. So for example, uh, the circuit circuit system that I led uses recombinase.

So these are, um, Enzymes that go in and they can cut out a particular region of DNA based on a recognizing a certain sequence. And so we were able to build gene circuits where we were able to have a promoter that would turn on a gene. We have an output gene that we're measuring the levels of, but then we can put a sequence in between that to turn it off.

But we use. The recombinase to then cut that off sequence, out on demand. And so we can construct a simple one input switch where a recombinase is turned on in the cell. It goes in, [00:11:00] cuts out that repressive sequence, and suddenly you've got an on signal. You can also do it in reverse where you cut out the on signal and suddenly your gene goes off.

And you can do that in a, in a very nice way where you get a strong, uh, off to or onto off. Transition. 

Kevin Folta: Okay. But what is the signal that activates through combination, like the, the first signal that turns on transcription of the enzyme that either turns it on or off. 

James Lloyd: So yeah, so this, this is one of the interesting things that as a plant biologist, I was very in interested in trying to advance because a lot of the times you see all over the literature, um, the, the.

Activating signal is actually just the presence, absence of the the inducer. So it's, you know, very artificial. You know, you've got one set of cells that are turned on, and the other set of cells are turned off by the presence of a genetic part, but, [00:12:00] In reality, when we want to go into the field, for example, with, you know, circuits and crops, which I think is, you know, at least is my ultimate dream, um, we would want one genetic circuit that's present in all the plants and it would switch between the off and on states, depending on the situations it's exposed to.

So when we published our Gene Circuits work in Nature Biotechnology in 2022, um, We, a lot of our experiments were using the artificial on and off system by presence, absence of the rease. Um, but we did also make some, where we had an gate, which requires two inputs to turn on the signal and. In this case it was in a whole stable plant and we had one of the inputs controlled by a particular location within the root, and the other signal was turned on by a chemical inducer, one you've already mentioned called dexamethasone.

And so that's, uh, becomes an artificial inducer of gene [00:13:00] expression implant. And so when we added the indu inducer dexamethasone, we saw. The, uh, on signal, but it was only in one particular part of the root. So we were able to get that and get logic because it was only when Dec Dexamethasone was present and only in that one specific cell type of the root.

Kevin Folta: Okay. So if we look at the plant toolbox, you know, like what are, what are some of the modular pieces that maybe already exist in plants, like we've already talked about? Well, we, we know about all kinds of repressors and all kinds of activators, especially repressors. I mean, gene expression is combination of step on the gas and, and pull off the brakes, right?

You have to do both in, in most cases. So, What are some good tools in the toolbox that people are thinking about using that may be able to control these kinds of circuits? 

James Lloyd: So, you're absolutely right. Plants have evolved to respond to all [00:14:00] sorts of signals, and it's quite interesting. If you watch, uh, animal researchers, they use a lot of plant derive.

Tools like light, uh, uh, photoreceptors, light receptors, as well as hormone, uh, receptors from plants to control their gene. Um, you know, switches in animal cells and so, you know, The problem for us is that sometimes we don't want interference between the natural system and our artificial system, but if we want to plug our circuits into the normal ways plants respond, we can connect it to certain light switches.

Potentially, um, pathogen detection. So there's a lot of ways in which the plants can perceive, oh, there's this horrible fungus or bacteria that's trying to eat me, send a signal. And so we can certainly attempt to tie our circuits into these natural processes and have them turned on, but in this very specific, targeted way.

Kevin Folta: No. Very good. So, so, [00:15:00] oh yeah, you mentioned light. Let me just clarify for the audience. So it's, there's some folks who aren't plant people who are listening. There's some really cool photoreceptors and plants, which can serve as on off switches depending upon what wavelength of light you hit them with last.

So pretty cool. You can turn them on with one color of light and then turn them off with another kind of good stuff. So, um, we're speaking with Dr. James Lloyd. He's a research association. So you're a research association. We're speaking with Dr. We're speaking with Dr. James Lloyd. He's a research associate in the University of Western Australia, in Perth, Australia.

This is a talking Biotech podcast by Collabora and will be back in just a moment. And now we're back on Clara's talking Biotech podcast. We're speaking with Dr. James Lloyd. He's a research associate at the University of Western Australia in Perth. And we're talking about [00:16:00] synthetic gene expressions, circuits, and how we can have more nuance in the.

Control and regulation of gene expression in plants and using some rather novel tools that maybe have existed for a little while and animal cell culture systems and, uh, or at least, uh, parallel, uh, to what's happening in animal cell culture systems in bacteria. And, uh, we, you mentioned this term, orthogonal.

And, and so what is orthogonality? 

James Lloyd: So I'm gonna embarrass myself in front of some, you know, very nerdy syn, bi synthetic biology people potentially. So ality means that your system is at least somewhat insulated or separate of way from. Other functions within the organism. So, you know, this is very important for synthetic biology because you want to make sure that, um, the system you are developing is able to function without too much interference from the rest of the organism.

So if the organism is undergoing, [00:17:00] um, major stress, for example, you want to try and make sure that that doesn't affect your gene circuit unless you want to tie it into that particular, uh, response of the organism. 

Kevin Folta: Yeah, so essentially is making a parallel, an independent, uh, circuit that connects some sort of a activator to some sort of a response, but doesn't really interconnect with the normal function of the cell.

So it gives you a very tight control of some sort of process without causing noise in the background. Is that a good way maybe to describe 

James Lloyd: it? I, I think you did a better job than I did. 

Kevin Folta: I, I just listened to you and repeated it in a different way. So, so when you describe, um, you describe different, the different inputs connecting to response, like dexamethasone, that kind of thing.

But what is a good example of that? If you looked in, uh, in either bacteria or animal cells or, or maybe even a good example from plants. [00:18:00] 

James Lloyd: So, um, Yeah, there, there's, uh, been a lot of work in different organisms and so they've been able to, at least in bacteria, create really amazing, um, sets of, uh, Uh, uh, different inducible promoters that respond to different sugars and, and different, um, um, chemicals that are regularly used.

And you can build incredibly different complex circuits that can re uh, you know, respond to many different inputs. And so, uh, you are layering lots and lots of different individual circuit components to make a very complex, uh, circuit that, you know, almost parallels. The processing power of very simple early computers.

Um, and that's really amazing to be able to link that with what you're adding to the culture media, to the, you know, the genetic computation that's taking part within the bacteria and then changing, you know, what output genes are being turned on. And I think there's a lot of interest in microbes for being able to turn [00:19:00] on, uh, synthetic gene circuits, uh, to.

Time exactly. When you're turning on a particular set of, um, enzymes potentially for making important chemical products, potentially high value chemical products, which you may not want on all the time. 

Kevin Folta: I see. So what, because these things have an expense to the cell and so maybe it's worth when you get to a certain cell density or whatever, them being able to add your inducer and turn on that circuit, something like that.

James Lloyd: Yeah, that, that has been examined or potentially controlling, you know, if, if the bacteria was, let's say in the environment, you know, you only want to turn it on when it's interfacing with a particular, um, uh, environment or, or chemical. Potentially. It could be used for bioremediation potentially to clean up, um, stuff in the environment that you don't want.

Kevin Folta: Yeah, I see a lot of folks are probably thinking, okay, this is super cool. It's a solution without a problem. Right? But, but [00:20:00] where can these kinds of tools be used in plants as part of a plant genetic improvement strategy? 

James Lloyd: Yeah. So a, a solution without a problem, I think is a, a great way of putting it. And I, I like to think of myself as a technology person, a technology developer.

So I built a system here, you know, with, with amazing collaborators. We built this system, but to solve real world problems, I feel like what we need, uh, domain experts in these different problems to work with them, to be able to solve these real problems. So I, I think. You know, broadly when I think about this, um, I think about a plant growing in a very harsh environment.

You know, high, high salt problems, high temperature, drought, or.

And, you know, the, both the attack as well as the defense response can be damaging to the plant. And potentially we could try and enhance these [00:21:00] defense responses with genetic circuits, like I was saying earlier, to try and limit the side effects. Um, so that you only turn on. The pathogen resistance gene at the right time in the right place, rather than having it turned on all the time and causing random spontaneous cell death, uh, across the plant.

Another example would be, you know, if you had a very expensive, um, chemical that you wanted to produce, but it was toxic to the plant. Optimizing exactly when to turn it on would be great because there are examples where you try to grow, um, it and, and produce it in the plant and you grow up the plant and it just dies very, uh, on early on as a seedling because you know, that thing is toxic and it's too much for the seedling to handle.

And I think, uh, a real life example of this is, uh, vanilla. I believe that vanilla as a chemical is actually quite toxic, even to the plant that's producing it. And so it only has a particular part of the plant, in particular cell type that it. Produces, uh, or moves all the [00:22:00] vanilla into. And so this safeguards the rest of the plant from the adverse effects of this.

And so being able to do something similar to that with any chemical on demand in various different plants, I think would be a really nice, uh, uh, goal for this sort of technology. 

Kevin Folta: Well, let's talk about your system. The system that you and your collaborators, you and your collaborators developed. And this is a system where you activate a recombinase, which then goes and turns gene expression on by removing a represser.

So you have some sequence that's turning off the, uh, normal transcription of the gene. So it's a, like a terminator that's put in prematurely. And so how can this approach be useful? 

James Lloyd: Yes. So, uh, the lack of reversibility of our system is certainly a limitation. Um, but what this enables is our system has a memory.

And so [00:23:00] when you stimulate. The plant with a particular input, the response can be separated in time. Uh, there are many other circuit designs out there and I mentioned like, um, uh, Jim Broy at Stanford has also recently published a beautiful system and they use transcription factors and so they can be very rapidly reversed.

Um, however, if you want to indu a new. Expression state and you want to prime your, let's say you want to prime your plant for a stretch. You know that a, you know something like a frost is coming or a heat wave is coming. You want to prime your plants, you can prime them, and then you don't have to get the timing exactly right.

You can then leave them and these memory circuits using the combin is that we have developed will stay on, and so the window of effectiveness of the output, Will be on for longer. Um, but if you need reversibility, you can certainly, um, you know, look to other systems or, uh, and you know, there's possibility of developing rease [00:24:00] based systems that have some level of reversibility.

And I know that, uh, Jennifer Neha lab in the US is doing great work, uh, in that area. 

Kevin Folta: Yeah, I, I, I saw her give a seminar recently, and she's done a lot using the tools from the oxen pathway and, uh, a lot of, a lot of good stuff there. I, I guess the other point though is that once you turn it on or off using this RECOMBINASE space system, it, it's not even Biotically reset.

Right. So this is, this is not just in that plant. Mm-hmm. It's in all subsequent generations. 

James Lloyd: Right. It can be. And uh, there are some ways to try and safeguard against that. Um, so one example would be you have, um, some sort of repressor in the, in the stem cells, in the Mary stem that produces the next generation to turn the system off.

And that's something we've been thinking a lot about. Um, or you could use, um, we have developed a system where you [00:25:00] have. We have developed a system where you have two different halves of a recombination split, so you don't get any recombination until you activate both halves. And if you ensure that one of those halves is never turned on in, um, those stem cells that would then go on to make the next generation in the Mary stem, then you would prevent recombination from occurring.

And being passed on to the next generation. Um, however, even if you do use a system where you would trigger the circuit and that triggered circuit would get passed onto the next generation because it's re combined the dna, um, it would not be too dissimilar to how a lot of, uh, crops are bought already as hybrid seeds.

And so you can't collect the seeds from the next generation. So you would, uh, probably treat it very much like you would treat, uh, a hybrid plant where you need to rebuy, uh, the seed. From, um, the producers. 

Kevin Folta: So the big question for me on this is, excuse me. [00:26:00] The big question for me is that this seems like kind of novel territory from a regulatory standpoint.

So if you're gonna develop really cool tools that allow you to turn things on and off with, with great precision, you're making something that's better, that's more precise, that's safer, presumably. And how do they gauge? Potential risks in a regulatory environment and say, this gets in the crop plants, how would this even be evaluated?

James Lloyd: Yeah, that, that's really interesting because you know, obviously there's a lot of concern and fear over genetic modification approaches and I think that it's really important, um, you know, Anything here to be, you know, go through all the appropriate testing, uh, processes and be compliant with the local laws.

Um, you know, but this is fundamentally a GM approach. And so it, I think it, you know, there are other GM approaches out there, including ones where there are many genes being [00:27:00] put into, uh, a plant. So I think, um, there's some canola, um, uh, um, also known as oil seed rape, um, and. That produces the omega-3 fatty acids that are normally found in certain fish, and that has a lot of health benefits.

And so that's an example of a more teaching trait that's being introduced into plants. And so I think you, you know, using the regulatory frameworks for assessing something like that, hopefully. We can, um, you know, see a path forward, uh, like they did. Um, but for me, I also see that, you know, GM and, uh, organic, like farming.

So low inputs, low cabin footprint, I see them as natural partners, um, and as a, a way forward to more sustainable, uh, farming and agriculture. And I, for me, um, you know, I think it's very important for us to try and reduce these inputs into. And, um, make it more sustainable. And I hope that these [00:28:00] gene circuits are, uh, able to help in some way.

Kevin Folta: I, I, I agree a hundred percent that this kind of, uh, more nuanced, uh, ability to control a transgene is really a cool idea at, uh, you know, we've been kind of going around for, what, 25 years essentially using a sledgehammer to be able to drive to, to pound a nail, when really you, this really can be done with a lot more.

Care. Right. And so what are some, uh, potential impacts? Like, do you have any kind of really cool, uh, dream ideas to where you would like to see this applied? 

James Lloyd: So, uh, we, we are working. On some ideas in very early development. Um, uh, but yeah, I think really that every time I look at, you know, what the potential applications are, I keep seeing lots of possibilities.

I think that, um, anywhere from the area of like pathogen defense, which I've already mentioned a couple of times, or you know, production of [00:29:00] a particular chemical or drug, In a timed way. I think those are really, um, appetizing opportunities or even any system where, let's say you don't have a promoter that defines the particular state that you.

A gene to be turned on in. So as a, you know, as a plant scientist or as somebody who's looking at applications, you might look at, you know, oh, I've got this stress condition, but it's not very natural to the plant. It's artificial related to agriculture or, or ship shipment of, uh, crops. And so there's no one promoter that naturally turns on in that one exact condition.

Well, if you've got a couple, two or three different promoters that together define that particular state, Then you can put them together, make them work together in a genetic circuit, and then you would have an output that would only turn on in that one very artificial situation. And so you can turn on your output gene that may have an effect, um, [00:30:00] when in reality no promoter may naturally exist.

That would turn on in that situation. 

Kevin Folta: No, really good. This is, this is really an intriguing field for me and, and just the ability to be able to look at the next generation of potential transgenic or gene edited plants, which will have these much more, uh, nuanced and controllable and modular, uh, type of tools is really exciting.

And so who else is doing this kind of work out there? Or are there a lot of labs doing this? Or is this something that has been just, uh, by a handful of laboratories? 

James Lloyd: So there's been a lot of great people doing plant synthetic biology work, and a lot of those tools are really foundational in terms of actually producing, uh, plant gene circuits or systems, uh, that, uh, you know, can be reprogrammed to create lots of different logics.

So an and gate or. Something else that does repression and you're repurposing similar [00:31:00] components to do all of that in a programmable way. Um, you know, so, uh, the Ryan Lister group here at UWA A that I work with, um, uh, has been doing this. So we've got the recombines uh, circuits out. There's, uh, preprint out for some crispr interference based circuits that were led by my colleague Adil, who's done amazing work there.

And, um, there's Jennifer, um, Neha. Who's done amazing. Her lab's done amazing work on both, um, recombines and um, CRISPR based circuits as well. And then, uh, Jen Brophy at the University of Stanford. Uh, she, she's published a beautiful system where they have repurposed bacterial transcription factors to be able to control planting circuits.

And so, you know, that, that, you know, that's a really, really elegant, um, study there. 

Kevin Folta: Yeah. Do you think that the industry has, uh, advances in this area that, uh, they kind of just keep close to the vest and we don't really know what they are, but that they're also working [00:32:00] in this area? 

James Lloyd: You know, I re I really don't know, and I would love to find out if, uh, if anybody who's working in those areas want to reach out to me.

Just get I'm, I'm genuinely just fascinated. I hope that, um, people have a big enough imagination. To see the value in this because my, one of my fears is that we're not going to be bold enough to try and move this forward. You know, it's, it's a complex system and there's risks associated with it, but I think I, I can personally see big rewards coming in the future from this.

So I really hope that, you know, people in industry have that same vision and long-term thinking and can see a pathway forward to integrate this into, into their work. And maybe they've already done it and I just dunno about it. 

Kevin Folta: Oh no, it was kind of a funny question because if we knew about it, we would know about it.

Right? So I should, I should have maybe have rethought about that. I, I think it's fascinating and I spent the last, I don't know, maybe about 10 years ago, I thought of the [00:33:00] idea of, can we break biology by creating completely synthetic molecules? And that works like a charm. It's a lot easier to break it than to make it do what you want.

And, uh, and so this is really, uh, intriguing stuff to me. If people wanna learn more about it, where would they look online or where could they follow you on Twitter? 

James Lloyd: So I am still on Twitter at um, uh, James Pbe Lloyd. Uh, so people are free to follow me there. I'm also over on Master Dawn at, uh, at James Pbe Lloyd at Genomic Social, which is a master in instance, where people interesting genomics that, um, I help moderate.

Um, or you can check out my, um, Blog, bad grammar, good syntax.com. And I write, um, blog posts about teaching wet lab biologists, how to program and analyze large data sets cuz that's a skill I had to pick up late in my career and learn how to, you know, analyze all these big omic studies, which has been a fascinating thing, but I understand is a [00:34:00] daunting, uh, um, prospect for any, any wet lab biologist who hasn't any, you know, understanding of like programming or coding.

Kevin Folta: Yeah, tell me about it. Uh, the funny part is I feel so, um, I don't wanna say lost more like, uh, outdated because I was really into, uh, in the coding and programming in like 2010. You know, I was really good at it, and then I became a department chair and lost all my skills, so I really need to get back to it.

James Lloyd: I, I, I, so I, I stopped doing, uh, as it is regularly while I started developing the planting circuit. So I stopped, you know, writing and an all logic in code and started trying to ride it into puns. But now I've started to do more of it, and it, you know, it came back like the, uh, proverbial, um, riding a bicycle.

So I'm sure that you'll have no problem getting back into it. Well, 

Kevin Folta: hey, I just have to find time to get some air in the tires. That's the problem. Well, James Lloyd, thank you very much for your time on [00:35:00] this today. Please keep me posted when the next big stuff breaks cuz I, it's a really exciting topic for me and I really think frames the future as to where we're going.

James Lloyd: No, thank you and thank you 

Kevin Folta: for your time. And for everyone listening, thank you for listening to another episode of The Talking Biotech podcast by Collabora. Share with some friends, talk about synthetic biology, what's happening, where we're creating the circuits that are modulating how biology works, and think about some really cool ways this may be applied in the future of plant biology.

This is a Talking Biotech podcast, and we'll talk to you again next week.