WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:01:37.264 --> 00:01:38.184 CJ: All right, Duke. 00:01:38.194 --> 00:01:39.734 So what are we doing on today's 00:01:39.849 --> 00:01:41.834 Duke: switcheroo! 00:01:45.114 --> 00:01:49.865 Today we have a very special guest, as some of you know, I do some ServiceNow 00:01:49.925 --> 00:01:56.515 coaching I ran a few cohorts last year, and I am very lucky and excited to have 00:01:56.515 --> 00:01:57.885 one of the graduates from that cohort. 00:01:58.375 --> 00:02:00.945 Holly Ryder, join us today on CJ and the Duke. 00:02:00.955 --> 00:02:01.455 Hey, Holly. 00:02:01.821 --> 00:02:02.151 Holly: Hey, Duke. 00:02:02.541 --> 00:02:03.181 Hey, CJ. 00:02:03.181 --> 00:02:04.021 Thanks for having me. 00:02:04.486 --> 00:02:04.956 CJ: Hey, Holly. 00:02:04.976 --> 00:02:05.566 Thanks for being here. 00:02:18.413 --> 00:02:20.783 Duke: in the description so you guys can check them out if you're 00:02:20.783 --> 00:02:22.033 a Canadian ServiceNow customer. 00:02:22.470 --> 00:02:22.670 Okay. 00:02:22.670 --> 00:02:25.620 So Holly, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? 00:02:25.700 --> 00:02:27.210 You're pre ServiceNow, Holly. 00:02:27.905 --> 00:02:29.495 Holly: Okay, pre service nail holly. 00:02:29.555 --> 00:02:33.005 \ , I was an esthetician and makeup artist. 00:02:33.445 --> 00:02:38.415 , so it's been quite a journey to go from that to, uh, learning service now. 00:02:38.515 --> 00:02:45.665 , I had done a bit of, , platform administration for a nonprofit and, 00:02:46.235 --> 00:02:51.923 , met a lovely human, , who, uh, is actually an architect at GlideFast. 00:02:52.563 --> 00:02:58.123 And he's like, oh, if you can do the platform, , administration, 00:02:58.133 --> 00:02:59.403 why don't you look into this? 00:02:59.443 --> 00:03:04.033 Because I was looking to switch gears after, um, COVID, , I was 00:03:04.053 --> 00:03:06.523 primarily, uh, doing makeup for bridal. 00:03:06.913 --> 00:03:14.676 So that kind of went away for two years and I just dove into trying to learn 00:03:14.676 --> 00:03:16.796 what this whole crazy world is about. 00:03:17.026 --> 00:03:17.996 Duke: How did you start? 00:03:18.136 --> 00:03:21.396 , when you decided I'm going to learn ServiceNow, what was step one for you? 00:03:21.573 --> 00:03:30.120 Silence. 00:03:33.457 --> 00:03:40.217 Holly: I started poking around and realized that some of the, CSA 00:03:40.217 --> 00:03:44.547 component was going to be a little bit more intuitive for me because I 00:03:44.557 --> 00:03:50.267 had already been a platform admin, so I had some of that admin experience. 00:03:51.117 --> 00:03:59.344 So I Jobe into trying to learn that on my own, and that went pretty smoothly. 00:03:59.344 --> 00:04:01.164 So I was pretty confident. 00:04:01.164 --> 00:04:02.444 I got my CSA pretty quickly. 00:04:03.277 --> 00:04:08.797 and then I realized that there was so much more that I was just kind 00:04:08.797 --> 00:04:10.807 of on the tip of this iceberg. 00:04:11.511 --> 00:04:17.321 and it was just in the middle of, they had just gone to San Diego and so kind 00:04:17.321 --> 00:04:23.081 of like the next experience was that, New and flashy and pretty and that 00:04:23.081 --> 00:04:30.571 started sucking me in deeper so I did my certified application developer 00:04:30.643 --> 00:04:36.674 certification as well With no, background whatsoever in, development or programming. 00:04:36.822 --> 00:04:42.622 but they had mentioned that there was a Code Academy and then while I 00:04:42.622 --> 00:04:47.982 was Googling Code Academy, I found Chuck Tomasi and his lovely videos. 00:04:48.502 --> 00:04:50.532 And, as I've said before. 00:04:51.617 --> 00:04:52.677 Duke: Big shout out to Chuck. 00:04:53.737 --> 00:04:58.977 Holly: He is a beautiful sunshine human who is like, Oh, I could figure this out. 00:04:59.017 --> 00:05:02.087 And he's so happy and engaging. 00:05:02.847 --> 00:05:03.417 Duke: Oh man. 00:05:05.267 --> 00:05:06.287 everybody take a shot. 00:05:06.287 --> 00:05:08.207 Cause we're going to put a link in the description below. 00:05:10.537 --> 00:05:13.597 We've got a black house episode with Chuck Tomasi. 00:05:13.607 --> 00:05:14.317 You never knew. 00:05:15.077 --> 00:05:15.487 CJ: Yeah, 00:05:15.492 --> 00:05:17.112 Duke: Tomasi like outside service now? 00:05:17.377 --> 00:05:19.937 CJ: and Chuck is committed to a part two, two, right? 00:05:19.937 --> 00:05:22.907 So this is a call, a call out to that we haven't forgotten. 00:05:22.962 --> 00:05:24.102 Duke: coming for you, Chuck. 00:05:25.327 --> 00:05:26.397 CJ: We'll see you at knowledge. 00:05:26.782 --> 00:05:27.132 Duke: Yeah. 00:05:28.052 --> 00:05:28.752 Oh man. 00:05:30.152 --> 00:05:33.656 but this is all just you on your own so far, right? 00:05:33.656 --> 00:05:38.126 So CSA, CAD, Chuck Tomasi's JavaScript videos. 00:05:38.791 --> 00:05:40.474 Holly: Mm hmm. 00:05:40.474 --> 00:05:45.914 And, I started applying for jobs and realized while I started looking 00:05:45.914 --> 00:05:49.334 through the job descriptions that I had no idea what I was doing. 00:05:50.637 --> 00:05:56.077 because I guess from my background, you need certifications to be able 00:05:56.077 --> 00:05:58.037 to do the job before you do the job. 00:05:58.642 --> 00:06:01.852 So that's how I had approached it that, oh, I'm supposed to 00:06:01.852 --> 00:06:04.862 have the certifications, then I do the job and learn the job. 00:06:04.922 --> 00:06:08.552 and that is not at all how service now works. 00:06:11.522 --> 00:06:12.472 so then, 00:06:12.807 --> 00:06:14.017 CJ: How would you say it works then? 00:06:14.017 --> 00:06:14.327 Is 00:06:14.402 --> 00:06:16.822 Duke: Yeah, I'm I really want to double click on this too, because. 00:06:17.352 --> 00:06:20.152 I have to break this news the hard way to a lot of people. 00:06:20.152 --> 00:06:22.582 They're just like, I have the cert, like, where's the jobs. 00:06:22.582 --> 00:06:25.052 And you give them a little bit of an interview and it's kind of like, 00:06:25.282 --> 00:06:28.187 but I, if you could double click on that, we'd really appreciate it. 00:06:28.187 --> 00:06:33.582 Okay. 00:06:36.414 --> 00:06:40.844 Holly: is you need to just get your hands dirty in your PDI. 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:45.409 You need to build and the nice thing is like the developer site even 00:06:45.419 --> 00:06:50.136 has those step by step This is how you create your first application. 00:06:50.186 --> 00:06:56.374 This is how you learn how to lock it down like you really really have 00:06:56.374 --> 00:07:02.447 to start actually using it because For me, at least, the CSA and the 00:07:02.497 --> 00:07:04.877 CAD was, definitions and terms. 00:07:05.204 --> 00:07:09.394 And I can talk about those definitions and terms, but that doesn't mean that 00:07:09.394 --> 00:07:13.414 I actually know how to use a client script or when to use a client script. 00:07:13.631 --> 00:07:16.351 It doesn't mean that I know the difference between what a client script 00:07:16.381 --> 00:07:19.781 and a business rule does, or when to use them, whether or not they're 00:07:19.781 --> 00:07:24.481 on the browser or the server, like, literally, you have to start playing 00:07:24.481 --> 00:07:26.281 with it and getting dirty, so to speak. 00:07:26.406 --> 00:07:32.976 and as you start gaining that experience, then that learning, starts coming for you. 00:07:33.071 --> 00:07:37.111 CJ: so that's when it all comes together when you've , absorbed the book knowledge 00:07:37.111 --> 00:07:40.471 and then you've, put it all into practice and your PDI and you say, whoa, whoa, 00:07:40.481 --> 00:07:45.031 whoa, that kind of didn't happen the way I thought it was going to happen and, or 00:07:45.031 --> 00:07:47.401 like, Oh, that's why you do it this way. 00:07:47.401 --> 00:07:50.871 And then you integrate , that level of understanding into your skill set. 00:07:50.871 --> 00:07:53.251 And then you start to build on it with , all of. 00:07:53.391 --> 00:07:57.031 The collective knowledge that you have right from the stuff that you learned 00:07:57.041 --> 00:07:58.991 from reading and watching videos. 00:07:58.991 --> 00:08:02.401 And then now the stuff that you're learning from actually executing, 00:08:02.571 --> 00:08:05.981 , those things that you watched and read about, would that be, 00:08:06.916 --> 00:08:08.746 Holly: Yeah, , that's exactly it. 00:08:09.311 --> 00:08:11.961 CJ: yeah, you know, and I've seen that I've seen the same thing, right? 00:08:11.961 --> 00:08:14.413 Like for me, You know, you, I read it first. 00:08:14.413 --> 00:08:14.583 Right. 00:08:14.583 --> 00:08:15.263 I integrate that. 00:08:15.263 --> 00:08:17.463 It's kind of like, okay, now I got the theoretical, right? 00:08:17.463 --> 00:08:19.523 It helps for me to understand the why behind it. 00:08:19.563 --> 00:08:21.593 I'm behind the what, right. 00:08:21.593 --> 00:08:24.523 And then I do the one and it's like, Oh, all right. 00:08:24.523 --> 00:08:25.673 And it all kind of comes together. 00:08:25.673 --> 00:08:29.246 So it's interesting for me to hear that , lots of other people learn this way too. 00:08:30.093 --> 00:08:34.133 Duke: So, you're going around on your own and you got your two certs. 00:08:34.793 --> 00:08:38.316 You started applying what made you decide you needed to do a cohort, 00:08:38.416 --> 00:08:40.086 a training, a coaching cohort. 00:08:41.081 --> 00:08:42.011 Holly: Kali Alexander. 00:08:45.296 --> 00:08:47.396 CJ: yes, yes, yes, yes. 00:08:47.396 --> 00:08:48.336 Shout out to Kali. 00:08:48.346 --> 00:08:49.016 Oh my God. 00:08:49.206 --> 00:08:50.696 I got love to hear that. 00:08:50.836 --> 00:08:52.006 I love to hear that. 00:08:54.621 --> 00:08:59.748 Holly: She had you on her show and, it had been one of the ones that I 00:08:59.758 --> 00:09:04.968 had, , tuned in for it and it's like, Oh, like, I think it was, , maybe when 00:09:04.968 --> 00:09:09.134 she was doing that, quick coaching series that she had did for a little bit. 00:09:09.321 --> 00:09:12.231 And I was like, Oh, this guy really knows. 00:09:14.241 --> 00:09:17.971 And I started actually searching through LinkedIn. 00:09:18.001 --> 00:09:22.811 And I started realizing like, CJ and the Duke existed because I had no 00:09:22.811 --> 00:09:25.696 idea if I actually feel like I've. 00:09:25.826 --> 00:09:29.376 Very much didn't know anything about the ServiceNow community 00:09:29.449 --> 00:09:31.439 other than now learning. 00:09:31.989 --> 00:09:35.123 The developer site and Chuck Domasi and LinkedIn kind of 00:09:35.143 --> 00:09:38.123 opened my eyes to a lot of that. 00:09:38.719 --> 00:09:44.792 and then, I actually sent her a message and just thanked her I said, like, 00:09:44.922 --> 00:09:48.452 I just, I just don't know where to go from here because I've got these 00:09:48.452 --> 00:09:53.162 certifications and I feel like I know stuff, but I also feel like I have no 00:09:53.162 --> 00:09:54.802 idea what I'm doing at the same time. 00:09:55.462 --> 00:09:58.742 And she said, I know the guy you need. 00:10:00.272 --> 00:10:00.812 Duke: Bye bye. 00:10:01.093 --> 00:10:07.947 Okay. 00:10:08.037 --> 00:10:11.837 Holly: reached out to you because you messaged me and I just had 00:10:11.837 --> 00:10:15.107 sent me, um, because I was saying I didn't know what to build. 00:10:15.117 --> 00:10:18.827 I had listened to a couple of your shows and both of you guys are talking 00:10:18.827 --> 00:10:20.802 about, like, what You should build. 00:10:20.802 --> 00:10:22.602 And it's like, well, what the heck do I build? 00:10:23.082 --> 00:10:24.012 What does that mean? 00:10:24.137 --> 00:10:30.687 And you had thankfully messaged me and sent me a link to the episode that you 00:10:30.687 --> 00:10:32.667 did on what, literally what to build. 00:10:33.142 --> 00:10:34.572 CJ: Oh yeah, that was a good one. 00:10:35.747 --> 00:10:37.787 Holly: And that made me follow you, , I'm like in. 00:10:38.267 --> 00:10:43.314 And that you were just getting started with your first cohort and. 00:10:43.619 --> 00:10:48.809 What, really sparked my interest was whenever you did the video with 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:54.082 Tracy, where she had built part of your soap app at the very beginning. 00:10:54.289 --> 00:10:56.389 And I was like, that's what I need. 00:10:56.539 --> 00:10:57.679 And so I started hounding you. 00:11:00.174 --> 00:11:01.314 Duke: I wasn't that hard to find, was I? 00:11:02.439 --> 00:11:03.009 Holly: No, you weren't. 00:11:03.629 --> 00:11:04.539 You were great. 00:11:05.809 --> 00:11:06.269 CJ: Whoa. 00:11:06.279 --> 00:11:06.679 No, that. 00:11:06.719 --> 00:11:08.089 And let me double click on that. 00:11:08.112 --> 00:11:10.511 we very, we very rarely get to. 00:11:10.511 --> 00:11:14.141 To talk about that experience from the perspective of like someone reaching 00:11:14.141 --> 00:11:16.961 out to one of us and actually having them on the shows and interviewee. 00:11:17.211 --> 00:11:20.591 So Duke, if you don't mind, I'm going to ask Holly a little bit about 00:11:20.601 --> 00:11:24.674 how, how, how the experience went, reaching out to the Duke and, and 00:11:24.694 --> 00:11:26.464 getting on board into his program. 00:11:26.464 --> 00:11:28.824 And Because obviously you became successful. 00:11:28.824 --> 00:11:32.774 So , talk a little bit about like how that experience ended up with 00:11:32.784 --> 00:11:37.214 you working for a ServiceNow partner, having come from, somewhere completely 00:11:37.214 --> 00:11:38.794 outside of the ServiceNow ecosystem. 00:11:39.219 --> 00:11:43.057 Holly: I, messaged you to let him know that I would like to join the 00:11:43.057 --> 00:11:48.847 cohort and, he did, about a 15 minute interview with me, , which scared 00:11:48.847 --> 00:11:51.542 the crap out of me because, um, Um, 00:11:55.902 --> 00:12:00.512 CJ: awesome. 00:12:00.722 --> 00:12:06.112 Holly: that I have such respect for what you have done and 00:12:06.272 --> 00:12:07.632 everything that you share. 00:12:07.632 --> 00:12:11.455 And it's that it's a career pivot. 00:12:11.525 --> 00:12:15.755 It's like you're coming from knowing that you have some life experience, 00:12:15.755 --> 00:12:17.925 but you don't in this area. 00:12:17.949 --> 00:12:20.689 and I'm an introvert as well. 00:12:20.689 --> 00:12:24.875 So getting brave enough to reach out and ask the questions. 00:12:25.495 --> 00:12:31.419 , and thankfully, I was accepted into the cohort and that was. 00:12:32.347 --> 00:12:33.757 That was amazing. 00:12:33.787 --> 00:12:38.707 And I'm not saying that just because I'm talking to you, I actually tell 00:12:38.707 --> 00:12:46.077 everybody that I absolutely would not be where I am today without, , the cohort. 00:12:46.697 --> 00:12:51.336 I was jazzed from the very first, honestly, I was downstairs in my 00:12:51.336 --> 00:12:58.516 basement, in a little cubby, , doing my first lesson, I came upstairs and 00:13:03.421 --> 00:13:07.981 Duke: I mean, you had your CSA and your CAD on your own power beforehand, 00:13:07.981 --> 00:13:10.071 so you had all the smarts you needed. 00:13:10.831 --> 00:13:11.831 CJ: Well, Oh, so, 00:13:12.086 --> 00:13:14.106 Holly: but I didn't know how to put it together. 00:13:14.501 --> 00:13:15.981 CJ: So talk about that. 00:13:16.201 --> 00:13:18.931 Talk about how you had two certifications. 00:13:18.931 --> 00:13:20.731 One of them and advanced certification. 00:13:20.731 --> 00:13:24.921 I considered a CAD, uh, a rather advanced, um, service now certification. 00:13:24.921 --> 00:13:27.451 Tell me , what you learned on working with the Duke that allows 00:13:27.451 --> 00:13:28.581 you to put that all together. 00:13:28.916 --> 00:13:31.906 Holly: it's like the difference between having book smarts and street smarts. 00:13:32.091 --> 00:13:32.461 CJ: Okay. 00:13:32.511 --> 00:13:32.921 Okay. 00:13:32.961 --> 00:13:33.441 I'm digging. 00:13:33.576 --> 00:13:36.436 Holly: me, the Duke gave me street smarts 00:13:36.711 --> 00:13:37.141 CJ: All right. 00:13:37.356 --> 00:13:41.973 Holly: because what I found was that I knew the terms and definitions and 00:13:41.973 --> 00:13:46.523 I had a good idea of, okay, how this goes together, but he would break down. 00:13:46.543 --> 00:13:46.903 Okay. 00:13:47.233 --> 00:13:48.553 This is. 00:13:48.953 --> 00:13:50.643 Where are we using a business rule? 00:13:50.643 --> 00:13:53.753 This is why we're choosing to use a business rule over a client script. 00:13:53.763 --> 00:13:57.553 For example, this is why we're choosing to use a business rule instead 00:13:57.553 --> 00:14:00.213 of, um, using a scheduled script. 00:14:00.723 --> 00:14:03.733 Why we're going to use flow instead of a business rule. 00:14:03.733 --> 00:14:09.113 Like he started actually breaking down the things that we actually do. 00:14:09.423 --> 00:14:10.620 And then the. 00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:13.650 Big thing for me was two things. 00:14:13.890 --> 00:14:19.026 One, he was very adamant that no question is ever stupid. 00:14:19.126 --> 00:14:24.786 And from my background, whenever you would ask a question, especially corporately, 00:14:25.336 --> 00:14:28.106 it was very much, you were questioning. 00:14:28.861 --> 00:14:32.651 Authority or you were you weren't asking to learn and I'm 00:14:32.651 --> 00:14:34.511 a very much a curious person. 00:14:34.511 --> 00:14:39.901 So, like, I will, ask and I ask until I can understand and he very 00:14:39.901 --> 00:14:41.761 much encouraged that and made time. 00:14:41.821 --> 00:14:44.091 Like, it didn't have to be during class time. 00:14:44.101 --> 00:14:45.931 Like, he, he was able to be late. 00:14:46.266 --> 00:14:49.886 Reached on LinkedIn or discord, which is usually my favorite medium. 00:14:50.160 --> 00:14:53.530 And he answered the questions, and taught me how to ask the smarter 00:14:53.530 --> 00:14:57.926 questions, which was also an episode that you guys did that taught me a lot. 00:14:58.856 --> 00:15:00.656 Um, and then 00:15:01.276 --> 00:15:06.276 Duke: uh, 00:15:06.586 --> 00:15:10.346 Holly: for example, whenever we were learning how to do the soap app, he was 00:15:10.356 --> 00:15:13.120 explaining, this is what my business is. 00:15:13.380 --> 00:15:17.150 And I want you to start building this for me. 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:18.300 And that's it. 00:15:18.920 --> 00:15:21.850 There's no, this is why I want you to build it. 00:15:21.860 --> 00:15:23.250 This is what I want done. 00:15:23.310 --> 00:15:24.610 This is some ideas I have. 00:15:24.850 --> 00:15:31.930 We literally had to dig and ask him and he did not make it easy because 00:15:31.930 --> 00:15:37.660 he acted like an actual client, where he wanted us to figure out what was 00:15:37.660 --> 00:15:40.760 going to work best for the business. 00:15:41.180 --> 00:15:45.410 Even though maybe he might have some preconceived ideas or something, it 00:15:45.410 --> 00:15:49.810 was more, okay, what can we provide and how is this going to actually 00:15:49.850 --> 00:15:51.820 get better business outcomes? 00:15:52.110 --> 00:15:56.210 Not, oh, this is going to look pretty or whatnot. 00:15:56.624 --> 00:15:58.694 And he made us dig through that. 00:15:58.986 --> 00:16:02.306 Duke: It's the whole idea of like, don't learn from a textbook when 00:16:02.306 --> 00:16:03.926 you can learn from real life. 00:16:04.391 --> 00:16:04.811 CJ: Right. 00:16:05.296 --> 00:16:09.216 Duke: only for a very short time in your ServiceNow career, will you be doing stuff 00:16:09.836 --> 00:16:11.906 that's direct transformation, right? 00:16:11.906 --> 00:16:15.946 So, so some other ServiceNow resources, build a client script, that blah, 00:16:15.986 --> 00:16:19.203 blah, blah, if the requirements were that specific, why doesn't the 00:16:19.203 --> 00:16:20.653 person who's writing them just do it, 00:16:21.104 --> 00:16:21.144 CJ: Yeah. 00:16:21.809 --> 00:16:23.489 No, that that's definitely fair, right? 00:16:23.539 --> 00:16:25.739 , if you can write out the requirements, you can just write out the 00:16:25.739 --> 00:16:26.959 requirements and hand them over. 00:16:26.969 --> 00:16:30.629 But one of the good things about having someone in front of you who actually wants 00:16:30.629 --> 00:16:34.259 to work done is they can tell you the why they want the work done and how they 00:16:34.259 --> 00:16:35.969 want to see it and things of that nature. 00:16:35.979 --> 00:16:40.069 And you can also get feedback on whether or not those things are good ideas 00:16:40.109 --> 00:16:43.459 and how it can be done differently or betterly based on a betterly. 00:16:43.499 --> 00:16:43.909 Wow. 00:16:44.189 --> 00:16:45.129 Differently or 00:16:45.179 --> 00:16:45.649 Duke: Oh, it is. 00:16:47.599 --> 00:16:48.529 We're saving that one. 00:16:51.529 --> 00:16:55.249 CJ: That's the title, uh, differently or better based on, , the expertise 00:16:55.249 --> 00:16:56.349 that you bring , to the table. 00:16:56.859 --> 00:16:59.479 , so Holly, I just want to, pull out a couple of things , that I just heard 00:16:59.539 --> 00:17:01.189 , from your answer in that last question. 00:17:01.452 --> 00:17:04.102 What I heard is that the Duke creates a safe space for questioning. 00:17:04.157 --> 00:17:07.647 with, with all the work that he's that he's doing, , in terms of bringing you 00:17:07.647 --> 00:17:12.918 into his cohort and how that cohort is set up, he told you a lot about the why to the 00:17:12.918 --> 00:17:17.548 decisions that are being made and the code or flow design or what have you, whatever 00:17:17.548 --> 00:17:21.018 it is that you're doing on the platform, he told you why you're doing it, right? 00:17:21.038 --> 00:17:22.178 So that it made a a lot of sense. 00:17:22.178 --> 00:17:24.628 And you can tie it back to the, what was needed. 00:17:25.058 --> 00:17:28.738 he talked critical thinking about it by basically being that obstinate client, 00:17:28.888 --> 00:17:32.695 ? That, , you sit down with and say, Hey, I need you to build this thing and then 00:17:32.705 --> 00:17:36.665 you have to tease out of him what he actually wants other than just the one 00:17:36.665 --> 00:17:38.695 sentence of I want this thing to work. 00:17:39.020 --> 00:17:41.630 And then he, talked a lot about the business and outcomes, right? 00:17:41.630 --> 00:17:45.570 He emphasized how the business outcomes drive the overall solution and 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:47.780 putting all that together with the C. 00:17:47.780 --> 00:17:47.830 A. 00:17:47.830 --> 00:17:48.070 D. 00:17:48.070 --> 00:17:48.420 And the C. 00:17:48.420 --> 00:17:48.610 S. 00:17:48.610 --> 00:17:48.710 A. 00:17:48.710 --> 00:17:51.354 That you brought to the table, Really gave you a more holistic 00:17:51.384 --> 00:17:52.254 understanding of service. 00:17:52.254 --> 00:17:55.244 Now, would that be a good summarization of what I just heard? 00:17:55.820 --> 00:17:57.070 Holly: Excellent summarization. 00:17:57.170 --> 00:17:57.440 Yep. 00:17:58.445 --> 00:18:00.885 CJ: And I did it that way, Just for the listeners at home, because I 00:18:00.885 --> 00:18:04.712 wanted them to be able to point to one specific thing and say, okay, what are 00:18:04.802 --> 00:18:07.932 we going to get if I'm working with the Duke and look, we don't typically 00:18:07.932 --> 00:18:09.352 talk, we do talk our own book here. 00:18:09.352 --> 00:18:12.682 We don't talk it in depth typically to this, to, to this point. 00:18:12.702 --> 00:18:12.902 Right. 00:18:12.902 --> 00:18:15.172 But I've been watching, Duke, I've been watching you do 00:18:15.172 --> 00:18:16.422 this stuff for years now, man. 00:18:16.432 --> 00:18:18.422 And it's great to have Holly on here. 00:18:18.422 --> 00:18:20.732 Who's actually talking about the experience that she 00:18:20.732 --> 00:18:22.152 got from start to finish. 00:18:22.252 --> 00:18:24.642 and she brought, you know, knowledge to the table, too. 00:18:24.642 --> 00:18:27.532 And it shows that it's not just for folks who come in and they've 00:18:27.532 --> 00:18:28.942 never heard of service down before. 00:18:29.132 --> 00:18:32.042 It could also be for folks who, knew about service down before they got 00:18:32.042 --> 00:18:36.122 there, who've actually been certified but wasn't putting it all together. 00:18:36.429 --> 00:18:40.902 And now coming out of, the Duke's cohort, now you've got it all together 00:18:40.912 --> 00:18:45.312 and you are now, gainfully employed at a service now partner, which is amazing. 00:18:45.312 --> 00:18:46.162 Congratulations. 00:18:47.072 --> 00:18:47.192 Is 00:18:47.417 --> 00:18:48.107 Holly: Thank you. 00:18:48.397 --> 00:18:49.617 They're really amazing. 00:18:51.217 --> 00:18:52.897 And I don't just say that because I work there. 00:18:52.897 --> 00:18:55.847 They're actually a really, really lovely bunch of people. 00:18:56.172 --> 00:19:00.162 CJ: So working now in the service now ecosystem, what was your first response? 00:19:00.302 --> 00:19:01.802 , Oh my God, I'm on a client. 00:19:01.952 --> 00:19:05.432 I'm doing actual work in this thing that I just learned over 00:19:05.432 --> 00:19:06.722 the last however many months. 00:19:07.712 --> 00:19:08.322 Go. 00:19:08.412 --> 00:19:09.859 Like, what was your first, feelings 00:19:10.024 --> 00:19:10.584 Holly: Oh, my goodness. 00:19:10.915 --> 00:19:15.995 I had to keep pinching myself, and I know that's such a funny answer, but I'm 00:19:16.045 --> 00:19:19.185 so excited to be a part of everything. 00:19:19.215 --> 00:19:22.875 And I'm I'm really working with a really great bunch of people, , and they 00:19:22.885 --> 00:19:25.952 value teaching and mentorship as well. 00:19:26.572 --> 00:19:33.082 , So my first project that I was on was like completely out of left field of knowledge 00:19:33.082 --> 00:19:34.642 that I had, which was really cool. 00:19:34.832 --> 00:19:40.302 because I was getting to learn about a ham implementation, which it was something 00:19:40.302 --> 00:19:44.362 that interested me before, but it wasn't something that I've done any study on. 00:19:44.392 --> 00:19:49.122 And so, , I was brought in as a tester so that I could learn how things. 00:19:49.392 --> 00:19:54.765 Work and how things go and a safe environment, because I wouldn't 00:19:54.765 --> 00:19:56.735 be the one maybe creating it. 00:19:56.735 --> 00:19:59.145 I would be the one who's testing it afterwards. 00:19:59.249 --> 00:20:03.129 and then the beautiful thing and another shout out to the Duke for this is that 00:20:03.199 --> 00:20:08.895 when, one of our team members had to step back, I was able to step up into. 00:20:09.865 --> 00:20:16.109 That position, and to create some, how to documentation on how to do like, 00:20:16.109 --> 00:20:20.109 say, an in tune integration, because he taught me to ask the questions. 00:20:20.420 --> 00:20:22.060 CJ: See that that right there, right? 00:20:22.070 --> 00:20:25.700 , you started on day one with the confidence, right? 00:20:25.700 --> 00:20:29.737 To interact in your job that you might not have otherwise had because you 00:20:29.737 --> 00:20:32.840 were able to result that, , you were able to rely back on your training, 00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:34.130 that you got working with to do. 00:20:34.180 --> 00:20:34.710 That's awesome. 00:20:34.990 --> 00:20:38.080 this is like a time honored, teaching skill to write, like, you 00:20:38.080 --> 00:20:39.550 know, train, train, train, train. 00:20:39.550 --> 00:20:42.380 So when you get in the actual environment, you don't have to think right. 00:20:42.380 --> 00:20:44.870 Like you just do the training that you got right. 00:20:44.890 --> 00:20:47.507 And, Duke, you know, you've mentioned before that you're an army brat. 00:20:47.537 --> 00:20:51.597 I don't know how much of that, you know, like influence this, 00:20:51.642 --> 00:20:55.602 Duke: Well, I, yeah, I was, , my dad was an infantry officer and like, I 00:20:55.602 --> 00:21:00.127 was not in the infantry definitively, but Certain things had to be so, right? 00:21:00.907 --> 00:21:02.537 Like, this is how you brush your teeth. 00:21:02.537 --> 00:21:04.967 And you always brush your teeth before you make your bed. 00:21:04.967 --> 00:21:09.667 And it's just, that's the way things were all neat and tidy and in order. 00:21:09.667 --> 00:21:13.957 And you just don't appreciate that until it's like much later in life. 00:21:13.967 --> 00:21:14.507 You know what I mean? 00:21:14.507 --> 00:21:15.817 It's just like, everything's busy. 00:21:15.817 --> 00:21:16.007 But. 00:21:16.417 --> 00:21:19.497 You've already done all the stuff you need to do without even thinking about it. 00:21:20.260 --> 00:21:23.720 I don't know how that, I don't know how that relates back to the discussion. 00:21:23.885 --> 00:21:24.155 CJ: Well, 00:21:24.420 --> 00:21:26.510 Duke: You got me all distracted with infantry. 00:21:26.635 --> 00:21:27.135 CJ: no, no. 00:21:27.135 --> 00:21:28.535 I mean, it's just what Holly said though. 00:21:28.535 --> 00:21:28.785 Right. 00:21:28.785 --> 00:21:32.548 She relied on her experience, and the cohort on her first day at the job. 00:21:32.558 --> 00:21:32.768 Right. 00:21:32.768 --> 00:21:34.248 And probably subconsciously. 00:21:34.339 --> 00:21:40.621 Holly: everyone. 00:21:40.663 --> 00:21:43.103 Duke: dad, I don't bring him down a notch or anything, just, but the 00:21:43.103 --> 00:21:47.018 difference I had was I don't want anybody doing anything on autopilot. 00:21:47.055 --> 00:21:49.665 tell me why you're doing it this way, even at the beginning. 00:21:50.715 --> 00:21:51.355 CJ: Fair enough. 00:21:51.365 --> 00:21:53.065 Duke: So it's, it's just not do this. 00:21:53.535 --> 00:21:55.535 I don't want anybody to go. 00:21:55.555 --> 00:21:57.215 Did I ever say, trust me, Holly? 00:21:58.655 --> 00:21:59.335 CJ: okay. 00:22:00.095 --> 00:22:00.645 Okay. 00:22:00.695 --> 00:22:00.845 Duke: I know. 00:22:01.185 --> 00:22:02.355 I don't think I ever said, trust me. 00:22:02.355 --> 00:22:02.595 I'm just 00:22:02.710 --> 00:22:03.250 Holly: a why, 00:22:03.365 --> 00:22:03.625 Duke: Yeah. 00:22:03.635 --> 00:22:05.795 Why you saw me just do it that way. 00:22:05.795 --> 00:22:07.165 Why did I do it that way? 00:22:07.175 --> 00:22:08.785 Any guess, even guesses. 00:22:08.785 --> 00:22:09.085 Right. 00:22:09.368 --> 00:22:12.638 but speaking of trust me though, I got to say, trust me on this folks. 00:22:12.678 --> 00:22:16.028 You got to try, this product from our sponsor magic mind. 00:22:16.191 --> 00:22:18.601 they call it the first productivity drink. 00:22:18.651 --> 00:22:20.125 This stuff is awesome. 00:22:20.175 --> 00:22:20.815 I got it right here. 00:22:20.815 --> 00:22:21.295 Can you hear it by the mic? 00:22:24.585 --> 00:22:25.495 CJ: Could definitely hear 00:22:25.655 --> 00:22:26.015 Duke: right now. 00:22:26.055 --> 00:22:26.865 I'm going to have some right now. 00:22:26.875 --> 00:22:27.185 Hold on a second. 00:22:29.351 --> 00:22:29.951 Oh, my God. 00:22:30.001 --> 00:22:30.391 So good. 00:22:32.667 --> 00:22:33.984 I love this stuff. 00:22:34.014 --> 00:22:35.544 Keeps me super focused. 00:22:35.564 --> 00:22:38.434 This is a part of the day where I'm trying to fight off a nap or 2. 00:22:38.914 --> 00:22:43.864 And this just keeps me aware and energized and in flow state 00:22:44.084 --> 00:22:45.946 without that Caffeine buzz. 00:22:45.946 --> 00:22:46.996 You know what I'm talking about Corey? 00:22:46.996 --> 00:22:47.296 Like 00:22:47.586 --> 00:22:47.756 CJ: Yeah. 00:22:47.756 --> 00:22:48.986 A little bit of the jitters, right. 00:22:48.996 --> 00:22:49.276 A little bit 00:22:49.406 --> 00:22:49.766 Duke: Yeah. 00:22:49.766 --> 00:22:50.156 Yeah. 00:22:50.202 --> 00:22:53.712 I feel amped up, I feel energized, but I don't feel like I'm down for 00:22:53.717 --> 00:22:56.592 like a deep focused work 'cause my hands won't stop shaking. 00:22:56.932 --> 00:22:58.882 And I remember in the last episode we talked about what 00:22:58.887 --> 00:22:59.722 does it taste like, right? 00:22:59.722 --> 00:23:01.972 And I was like, oh, it's kind of like banana ish or something. 00:23:02.272 --> 00:23:08.016 But I actually checked the ingredients this time and it is matcha green tea. 00:23:08.016 --> 00:23:10.116 It says ceremonial grade matcha. 00:23:10.116 --> 00:23:11.136 So you know, it's the good stuff. 00:23:11.366 --> 00:23:13.556 It's got agave, passion fruit. 00:23:13.841 --> 00:23:16.927 Vanilla, red beet, it tastes delicious. 00:23:16.967 --> 00:23:18.837 It's a little shot, it's like a little tiny green shot. 00:23:19.037 --> 00:23:21.064 You can see a picture of it on our, LinkedIn page. 00:23:21.111 --> 00:23:23.161 and I just gotta say, trust me on this. 00:23:23.846 --> 00:23:25.266 Get yourself some magic mind. 00:23:25.456 --> 00:23:26.916 If you go to magic mind. 00:23:27.106 --> 00:23:31.326 com slash CJ and the Duke, there'll be a link in the description below, 00:23:31.526 --> 00:23:35.516 and if you use the promo code CJ and the Duke 20, you can get 20 percent 00:23:35.566 --> 00:23:39.796 off of your first one time purchase or 48 percent off a subscription. 00:23:41.819 --> 00:23:43.459 I'll say, trust me, Holly, I swear. 00:23:44.772 --> 00:23:47.334 Holly: can 00:23:47.334 --> 00:23:49.454 CJ: Me on the other hand, I'll say trust me a lot. 00:23:49.474 --> 00:23:50.334 Because I'm smart. 00:23:51.164 --> 00:23:52.936 Ha ha ha ha ha. 00:23:52.936 --> 00:23:54.250 Ha ha ha 00:23:54.409 --> 00:23:54.949 Duke: not being 00:23:55.109 --> 00:23:55.389 Holly: You're allowed 00:23:55.509 --> 00:23:55.779 Duke: but 00:23:55.869 --> 00:23:57.899 Holly: it with you when you've been proving it. 00:24:00.304 --> 00:24:01.074 CJ: Absolutely. 00:24:02.238 --> 00:24:07.358 Holly: No, you, you made us think and you made us ask why, and you also 00:24:07.498 --> 00:24:09.728 didn't shy away from making a mistake. 00:24:10.115 --> 00:24:10.585 Which 00:24:10.685 --> 00:24:12.275 Duke: a couple of mistakes on the show. 00:24:13.195 --> 00:24:14.915 That's that hurt too. 00:24:14.915 --> 00:24:16.705 Like you're an hour and a half in, and it's like, you're about 00:24:16.705 --> 00:24:18.360 to like, just show the punchline. 00:24:18.370 --> 00:24:20.220 And it's just like, that didn't work. 00:24:20.675 --> 00:24:21.325 CJ: Ha ha ha. 00:24:21.910 --> 00:24:23.500 Duke: It just didn't do anything at all. 00:24:23.515 --> 00:24:24.245 Yeah. 00:24:24.245 --> 00:24:24.975 Sorry 00:24:25.050 --> 00:24:35.672 Holly: But that's real 00:24:35.815 --> 00:24:36.685 Duke: totally real life. 00:24:36.685 --> 00:24:39.515 You don't think that's going to happen on like the first week on the job. 00:24:39.525 --> 00:24:39.885 It just. 00:24:40.780 --> 00:24:41.880 CJ: I've told this story before. 00:24:41.910 --> 00:24:43.150 I don't know if I've ever told it on the show. 00:24:43.150 --> 00:24:43.370 Right. 00:24:43.370 --> 00:24:44.740 But I was going live with a client, right. 00:24:44.740 --> 00:24:46.490 It was the Friday before a Monday go live. 00:24:46.770 --> 00:24:49.520 And I was moving things from a test to production. 00:24:49.830 --> 00:24:54.270 And I was doing something, something told me that I needed to clean up 00:24:54.280 --> 00:24:57.200 the, yeah, I need to clean up the attachment table or something like that. 00:24:57.260 --> 00:25:00.980 . And so I nuked it, not realizing that not only was I nuking like all 00:25:00.980 --> 00:25:04.720 of those test attachments, I like nuked like all of the attachments. 00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:08.120 The service now also reads in all other parts of the system, right? 00:25:08.120 --> 00:25:13.040 And so we ended up with this system now that was only half working because 00:25:13.050 --> 00:25:17.350 a lot of the referenced images and things like that were just all gone. 00:25:17.645 --> 00:25:20.665 . And this is on a Friday before a Monday go live. 00:25:20.665 --> 00:25:23.115 And I'm like, crap, I don't know how to get these things back. 00:25:23.135 --> 00:25:25.385 And so I start like trying to pull them back and all that. 00:25:25.445 --> 00:25:27.195 And anyway, long story short, right. 00:25:27.195 --> 00:25:28.495 I worked over the weekend, got it done. 00:25:28.505 --> 00:25:29.455 We went live on Monday. 00:25:29.455 --> 00:25:30.325 Everything was great. 00:25:30.375 --> 00:25:31.935 . But that was a really serious mistake. 00:25:31.935 --> 00:25:35.355 And , I did panic a little bit, but , had I not actually 00:25:35.355 --> 00:25:36.715 said, okay, mistakes happen. 00:25:36.920 --> 00:25:37.080 Right. 00:25:37.080 --> 00:25:39.050 I got the client on the phone, Hey, I did this thing. 00:25:39.050 --> 00:25:40.360 I blew something out. 00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:41.100 Don't worry about it. 00:25:41.100 --> 00:25:41.780 We'll get there. 00:25:41.950 --> 00:25:43.570 . And client was very understands, like, I trust you. 00:25:43.570 --> 00:25:45.720 You've been good all the way till now. 00:25:45.890 --> 00:25:46.920 Like, I'm sure we'll be fine. 00:25:47.013 --> 00:25:48.393 and then I got there at the end. 00:25:48.403 --> 00:25:48.693 Right. 00:25:48.693 --> 00:25:52.143 And we had a great lunch, but mistakes happen even when you're 00:25:52.143 --> 00:25:54.638 not intending them to, even when you, When you're doing something 00:25:54.638 --> 00:25:56.688 that you think is relatively benign. 00:25:56.728 --> 00:26:00.578 So, you know, you gotta be for that from both the training and, a real reality, 00:26:00.578 --> 00:26:02.428 um, kind of standpoint so that you 00:26:02.563 --> 00:26:05.363 Duke: I like to think that even though I had stuff that went sideways. 00:26:05.523 --> 00:26:07.273 ways on a training call. 00:26:07.283 --> 00:26:10.223 It was great opportunities to practice troubleshooting. 00:26:10.243 --> 00:26:10.633 Right. 00:26:11.178 --> 00:26:11.518 Holly: hmm. 00:26:11.678 --> 00:26:11.758 Mm 00:26:11.918 --> 00:26:12.298 CJ: Yeah. 00:26:12.958 --> 00:26:13.358 Yeah. 00:26:13.873 --> 00:26:17.033 Duke: that's another skill and troubleshooting is an exquisitely hard 00:26:17.053 --> 00:26:19.283 skill to teach, you know what I mean? 00:26:19.283 --> 00:26:21.713 Like, it's just one of those things that you just need to see 00:26:21.713 --> 00:26:24.850 enough trench fights to know what's coming, to know what to do next, 00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:28.460 CJ: Ooh, I mean, that's like an entire episode on systems thinking, right? 00:26:28.470 --> 00:26:31.180 Like, cause I think the best troubleshooters are a great 00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:32.580 systems thinking thinkers. 00:26:32.600 --> 00:26:35.590 They know how everything relates together and they know like when 00:26:35.590 --> 00:26:38.430 the output of one thing isn't matching what the output should be, 00:26:38.610 --> 00:26:40.250 or the input on another part of it. 00:26:40.260 --> 00:26:42.870 And then, you know, you work backwards, but that's a whole nother show. 00:26:43.050 --> 00:26:44.810 But yeah, I agree with you, right? 00:26:44.810 --> 00:26:47.430 Like it's, it's incredibly hard to teach how to troubleshoot. 00:26:47.860 --> 00:26:50.110 I tried to teach it to my kids and I think, why can't you get this? 00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:51.310 And 00:26:53.110 --> 00:26:54.410 Duke: Teaching them how to think, right? 00:26:54.460 --> 00:26:55.250 Oh, so tough. 00:26:56.110 --> 00:26:57.200 So what's next for Holly? 00:26:57.626 --> 00:26:58.996 Holly: I'm just going to keep pushing. 00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:03.426 I am looking forward to getting my, , ITSM, certification. 00:27:03.426 --> 00:27:04.636 I think that's what I'm working on next. 00:27:05.266 --> 00:27:07.966 Plugging away at some micro certs just because those are important 00:27:07.966 --> 00:27:11.757 and they teach all kinds of fun little skills Like ATF, which is 00:27:11.787 --> 00:27:13.187 when I just finished that was cool. 00:27:13.483 --> 00:27:15.938 And yeah, I'm very content. 00:27:17.498 --> 00:27:18.008 CJ: nice. 00:27:18.340 --> 00:27:19.200 Duke: We still got some time. 00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:21.090 So why don't you tell us about the coolest thing you've done on the 00:27:21.090 --> 00:27:22.710 platform since starting with PAMT. 00:27:23.120 --> 00:27:23.180 Silence. 00:27:23.584 --> 00:27:31.405 Holly: Oh I think that learning how To do, , an Intune 00:27:31.415 --> 00:27:32.915 integration was pretty darn cool. 00:27:33.285 --> 00:27:36.792 And the reason I say that is just because, it just brings so much 00:27:36.812 --> 00:27:41.542 value when you can start having other systems work with ServiceNow to 00:27:41.542 --> 00:27:44.462 pull in your assets or information. 00:27:44.588 --> 00:27:46.538 cause there's a lot of different integrations out there. 00:27:46.538 --> 00:27:50.928 and then another one is honestly, I think Catalog Builder is pretty darn cool. 00:27:52.988 --> 00:27:57.638 Because I think that it brings value to the client to be able to maintain 00:27:57.938 --> 00:28:02.338 your service catalog over time, instead of always having to have things 00:28:02.492 --> 00:28:04.522 sometimes done in a complicated manner. 00:28:05.192 --> 00:28:09.722 Not that you don't always need that, but it's nice to be able to have your 00:28:09.722 --> 00:28:11.522 clients to be able to maintain that. 00:28:12.232 --> 00:28:14.885 Duke: Yeah, I just like you don't need to have top skill level 00:28:14.885 --> 00:28:16.712 people, working on catalog items. 00:28:16.712 --> 00:28:17.142 You can 00:28:17.362 --> 00:28:18.112 CJ: no, no, no, no. 00:28:18.112 --> 00:28:18.692 You're missing. 00:28:18.692 --> 00:28:19.572 You guys both. 00:28:20.062 --> 00:28:21.512 I love catalog builder. 00:28:21.682 --> 00:28:25.678 Like you're missing the best part of it, The best part of it is that 00:28:25.688 --> 00:28:29.750 it makes building catalog items drag and drop, there's no more like, 00:28:29.760 --> 00:28:32.180 okay, , what's the order number here? 00:28:32.190 --> 00:28:32.450 Move 00:28:32.795 --> 00:28:34.325 Duke: Yeah, no, that's kind of what I mean. 00:28:34.325 --> 00:28:37.435 It's really just putting labels on questions and, and determining what 00:28:37.435 --> 00:28:38.995 type of answer that you're expecting. 00:28:39.305 --> 00:28:39.665 Right. 00:28:39.835 --> 00:28:41.685 And it's like, why can't a BA do that? 00:28:41.725 --> 00:28:44.215 They're writing it in Excel for crying out loud beforehand. 00:28:44.215 --> 00:28:47.595 So why don't I just get all that stuff done in catalog builder? 00:28:47.595 --> 00:28:49.575 And then they don't have to worry about that stupid, like 00:28:49.575 --> 00:28:51.015 what table stores, variable 00:28:51.275 --> 00:28:54.385 CJ: Dude, we wondered, yeah, we wondered through the wilderness for 00:28:54.385 --> 00:28:56.005 years for this thing, man, like, 00:28:56.185 --> 00:28:56.635 Duke: yeah. 00:28:57.665 --> 00:29:01.715 CJ: For me, , it is one of the capstones of a recent ServiceNow development. 00:29:01.745 --> 00:29:05.295 It's just getting that catalog builder that, , is largely as like, 00:29:05.485 --> 00:29:07.215 I don't know, V2 or V3 now, right? 00:29:07.215 --> 00:29:10.935 So, which means it's pretty solid and going in there and not have to, not having 00:29:10.935 --> 00:29:16.125 to, manually adjust like positioning and separators and all that kind of 00:29:16.125 --> 00:29:17.805 stuff without being able to see it first. 00:29:18.135 --> 00:29:19.705 Duke: Oh, frigging separators. 00:29:19.890 --> 00:29:20.600 CJ: exactly. 00:29:20.745 --> 00:29:24.175 Duke: Oh, I still hate those 00:29:24.370 --> 00:29:25.260 CJ: Exactly. 00:29:26.907 --> 00:29:29.147 Duke: episode, I guess, because we are at time. 00:29:29.147 --> 00:29:30.727 Corey's got a boogie in two minutes here. 00:29:30.727 --> 00:29:32.337 So wrap this one up, Holly. 00:29:32.347 --> 00:29:33.657 Thanks so much for joining us. 00:29:33.757 --> 00:29:35.327 Thank you so much for the kind words 00:29:36.337 --> 00:29:37.787 Holly: Thank you so much for having me. 00:29:37.977 --> 00:29:39.497 You guys are a delight. 00:29:40.267 --> 00:29:42.437 Duke: Tons of links in the description below folks, everybody 00:29:42.437 --> 00:29:43.627 take a shot and check that out. 00:29:44.882 --> 00:29:45.212 CJ: right. 00:29:45.832 --> 00:29:46.752 Still no, still 00:29:46.987 --> 00:29:47.807 Duke: Still no outro.