WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en-GB 00:00:08.210 --> 00:00:10.490 I'm Travis Bader and this is The 00:00:10.490 --> 00:00:11.660 Silvercore Podcast. 00:00:13.280 --> 00:00:15.140 Join me as I discuss matters related to 00:00:15.140 --> 00:00:17.180 hunting, fishing, and outdoor pursuits 00:00:17.450 --> 00:00:19.360 with the people in businesses that comprise 00:00:19.360 --> 00:00:20.040 of the community. 00:00:20.870 --> 00:00:22.760 If you're a new to Silvercore, be sure to 00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:26.960 check out our website, www.Silvercore.ca where 00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:29.060 you can learn more about courses, services, 00:00:29.060 --> 00:00:30.320 and products we offer. 00:00:30.710 --> 00:00:32.720 As well as how you can join The Silvercore Club, 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:35.120 which includes 10 million in North American wide 00:00:35.120 --> 00:00:37.310 liability insurance, to make sure you are 00:00:37.310 --> 00:00:39.690 properly covered during your outdoors adventures. 00:00:43.180 --> 00:00:45.640 Today, I'm remotely recording online with 00:00:45.670 --> 00:00:48.190 Todd Hisey, Canadian combat veteran and 00:00:48.190 --> 00:00:50.130 founder of Veteran Hunters in Alberta. 00:00:50.460 --> 00:00:52.269 Veteran Hunters takes veterans and first 00:00:52.269 --> 00:00:54.670 responders suffering from PTSD and provides 00:00:54.670 --> 00:00:56.290 them with a positive experience and a 00:00:56.290 --> 00:00:57.129 supportive group. 00:00:58.050 --> 00:01:02.190 So Todd, you and I spoke earlier and the value 00:01:02.370 --> 00:01:04.009 that we're hoping to bring to our listeners 00:01:04.009 --> 00:01:05.840 here is we're hoping to talk about mental 00:01:05.840 --> 00:01:07.940 health and PTSD from your perspective. 00:01:08.539 --> 00:01:10.460 Your journey that brought you to the 00:01:10.460 --> 00:01:13.430 inception of Veteran Hunters and what Veteran 00:01:13.430 --> 00:01:14.750 Hunters is and does. 00:01:14.960 --> 00:01:18.200 So Todd, welcome to The Silvercore Podcast. 00:01:18.630 --> 00:01:20.759 Travis, thanks for having me on and making time for 00:01:20.759 --> 00:01:22.949 this important issue with respect to mental health 00:01:22.949 --> 00:01:24.720 and particular mental health in veterans, 00:01:24.720 --> 00:01:25.380 and first responders. 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:28.789 You served in the Canadian military 00:01:28.789 --> 00:01:32.539 for some time and you're open a boat 00:01:32.570 --> 00:01:34.169 suffering from PTSD. 00:01:34.169 --> 00:01:37.130 Can you tell me a little bit about PTSD? 00:01:37.130 --> 00:01:39.630 Can you educate me and the listeners about, 00:01:40.369 --> 00:01:42.560 at least from your perspective, PTSD? 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:43.619 Sure. 00:01:43.619 --> 00:01:45.750 So I'll just talk a little bit about my 00:01:45.750 --> 00:01:47.119 experience and how I ended up getting 00:01:47.119 --> 00:01:49.109 diagnosed with with PTSD. 00:01:49.130 --> 00:01:52.009 So I served for a total of 22 years in 00:01:52.009 --> 00:01:52.860 the Canadian army. 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:55.220 Mostly with the First Battalion Princess 00:01:55.220 --> 00:01:57.250 Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, just a little 00:01:57.250 --> 00:01:58.780 plug for the Patricia's. 00:01:59.210 --> 00:02:01.470 So yeah, no, graduated the royal military 00:02:01.490 --> 00:02:03.140 college, served in both the regular 00:02:03.140 --> 00:02:04.329 rounds reserve army. 00:02:04.419 --> 00:02:06.920 Like I said, for 22 years, 15 of that on 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:10.250 full-time service, served overseas, three times. 00:02:11.190 --> 00:02:15.630 It was in my Kosovo tour in 1999 that unbeknownst 00:02:15.630 --> 00:02:18.180 to me that, when I got home, I was actually 00:02:18.180 --> 00:02:21.720 starting to suffer the early effects of PTSD. 00:02:22.440 --> 00:02:27.270 And then in 2001, I decided to leave the 00:02:27.270 --> 00:02:30.790 Canadian military and really it was the fight 00:02:30.810 --> 00:02:36.540 or flight aspects of PTSD that were causing 00:02:36.540 --> 00:02:39.480 me to have, unbeknownst to me, mental health 00:02:39.480 --> 00:02:41.160 issues at that time. 00:02:41.640 --> 00:02:44.850 And I left the Canadian army the first time 00:02:45.600 --> 00:02:48.870 and the medical system actually in my departure, 00:02:48.870 --> 00:02:52.214 medical actually knew I had PTSD and actually 00:02:52.214 --> 00:02:53.054 withheld it from me. 00:02:53.054 --> 00:02:55.875 In fact, wrote in the margins, on my medical 00:02:55.875 --> 00:02:59.685 records, that I had PTSD where I not getting 00:02:59.685 --> 00:03:02.174 out, they would have been treating me for it. 00:03:02.234 --> 00:03:04.845 And then they went so far, is that when I 00:03:04.845 --> 00:03:07.454 requested copies of my medical records later, 00:03:07.454 --> 00:03:10.815 they actually redacted those portions, so 00:03:10.815 --> 00:03:13.530 that I didn't even know that I had it. 00:03:14.350 --> 00:03:14.740 Crazy. 00:03:15.060 --> 00:03:15.510 Yeah. 00:03:15.540 --> 00:03:17.670 So, and I'm not the only one that's 00:03:17.670 --> 00:03:18.520 had this happen to. 00:03:18.540 --> 00:03:20.970 It's been, it's an ongoing issue with 00:03:20.970 --> 00:03:23.670 the Canadian forces in particular, a lot of 00:03:23.670 --> 00:03:26.490 issues that came out of the former Yugoslavia 00:03:26.490 --> 00:03:29.549 where medical conditions or periods of time were 00:03:29.549 --> 00:03:33.370 actually completely wiped clean of military 00:03:33.390 --> 00:03:35.970 records, so that's a whole other story. 00:03:35.970 --> 00:03:39.450 But in my case, it was my medical records that were 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:41.265 kept kind of from me. 00:03:41.775 --> 00:03:44.535 I got back in 2007, got a letter from the 00:03:44.535 --> 00:03:46.875 Canadian army, asking me to come back with 00:03:46.875 --> 00:03:47.955 the war in Afghanistan. 00:03:47.985 --> 00:03:50.505 Didn't deploy to Afghanistan largely 00:03:50.505 --> 00:03:55.035 because they started to, I and others, started 00:03:55.035 --> 00:03:58.755 to figure out that there was probably something 00:03:58.755 --> 00:04:00.855 wrong with my mental health at the time. 00:04:01.545 --> 00:04:01.935 Hmm. 00:04:02.114 --> 00:04:05.445 That started kind of the long process 00:04:05.445 --> 00:04:06.885 towards a treatment. 00:04:07.275 --> 00:04:09.704 It was actually a civilian mental health 00:04:09.704 --> 00:04:12.584 practitioner who was working with soldiers 00:04:12.674 --> 00:04:15.255 in another practice who was very interested in 00:04:15.255 --> 00:04:16.425 my military service. 00:04:16.844 --> 00:04:18.524 And he kind of put two and two together 00:04:18.524 --> 00:04:20.534 and said, hey, I think you have PTSD. 00:04:21.255 --> 00:04:22.770 And I was like, okay. 00:04:23.070 --> 00:04:27.419 So he encouraged me to put in an application 00:04:27.419 --> 00:04:29.760 to Veterans Affairs for some kind of operational 00:04:29.760 --> 00:04:30.510 stress injury. 00:04:31.229 --> 00:04:33.210 At that time then the Canadian army didn't 00:04:33.210 --> 00:04:34.289 need me anymore. 00:04:34.289 --> 00:04:37.469 We were winding down from our tours in Afghanistan. 00:04:37.469 --> 00:04:40.560 So I transitioned to a job with oil and gas 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:43.440 in Calgary and ended up getting put into 00:04:43.440 --> 00:04:45.900 the operational stress injury clinic here in 00:04:45.900 --> 00:04:48.960 Calgary and was one of the early intakes. 00:04:49.380 --> 00:04:53.550 And they diagnosed me with PTSD and I started 00:04:53.550 --> 00:04:56.010 the next six and a half years of treatment. 00:04:56.460 --> 00:04:59.125 In 2014 I was laid off for the oil and 00:04:59.125 --> 00:05:00.865 gas and that kind of started the big downturn 00:05:00.865 --> 00:05:02.745 here in Alberta with respect to oil and gas. 00:05:03.354 --> 00:05:04.555 But I had a couple of different things 00:05:04.555 --> 00:05:06.415 that were going on at the same time. 00:05:06.415 --> 00:05:09.265 So one, I was being treated for my PTSD 00:05:09.775 --> 00:05:11.905 and in my case, my PTSD didn't 00:05:11.905 --> 00:05:15.475 necessarily a result from being shot at. 00:05:15.505 --> 00:05:19.285 I was in a helicopter in Kosovo, took five, 00:05:19.315 --> 00:05:21.625 five rounds from a 12.7 up into the belly. 00:05:22.375 --> 00:05:24.055 We'd have little kids that would throw 00:05:24.445 --> 00:05:27.315 firecrackers at us with, you know, pieces 00:05:27.315 --> 00:05:28.845 of metal attached to it, et cetera. 00:05:29.145 --> 00:05:31.425 I previously served in Bosnia and one of the 00:05:31.425 --> 00:05:34.545 things that I'd been responsible for was doing 00:05:34.545 --> 00:05:37.865 the intelligence prep for battle going into Kosovo. 00:05:38.575 --> 00:05:42.525 Which we were sent into an area that had the bulk 00:05:42.525 --> 00:05:47.505 of the issues relating to the genocides in Kosovo. 00:05:48.135 --> 00:05:50.325 But also one of the things we, for those 00:05:50.325 --> 00:05:51.375 of us who had already been in the form of 00:05:51.375 --> 00:05:54.870 Yugoslavia, we kind of had generalized 00:05:54.900 --> 00:05:56.480 culturally that they were going to be, the 00:05:56.480 --> 00:05:58.500 Kosovor's were going to be very similar to the 00:05:58.500 --> 00:06:01.360 Bosniaks or the Croats or the Serb's that we, 00:06:01.470 --> 00:06:02.400 that we had dealt with. 00:06:02.400 --> 00:06:06.120 And I was sorely sorely mistaken on that one. 00:06:06.690 --> 00:06:08.430 I had actually in preparation to go over, 00:06:08.430 --> 00:06:10.920 I'd actually found a German officer's diary 00:06:11.190 --> 00:06:14.220 and he'd served, in Kosovo and a lot of the 00:06:14.220 --> 00:06:16.440 issues that he talked about logistically, 00:06:16.440 --> 00:06:19.290 and then culturally with the locals we 00:06:19.290 --> 00:06:22.245 actually encountered like decades later. 00:06:22.635 --> 00:06:24.255 And we ran into all the same issues. 00:06:25.185 --> 00:06:27.255 So one of the things I found challenging over 00:06:27.255 --> 00:06:30.925 there was in the 1990s and going into early 00:06:30.925 --> 00:06:33.555 2000, the Canadian military or Canadian 00:06:33.555 --> 00:06:38.085 army was still very, you know, very political, 00:06:38.445 --> 00:06:41.669 senior leadership was very hesitant 00:06:41.880 --> 00:06:43.080 to make decisions. 00:06:43.109 --> 00:06:45.840 You know, we used to have a saying where, you know, 00:06:45.840 --> 00:06:48.690 a better to be judged by 12 then carried by six. 00:06:48.690 --> 00:06:50.280 When the reality is, was, it was actually 00:06:50.280 --> 00:06:52.140 better to be carried by six than to attend, 00:06:52.140 --> 00:06:53.370 to be judged by 12. 00:06:53.969 --> 00:06:57.000 And so we had a very gun shy leadership. 00:06:57.539 --> 00:07:00.150 So when we went into Kosovo, the federal 00:07:00.510 --> 00:07:03.000 government at the time, the liberal 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:07.220 government had restricted the number of guys 00:07:07.220 --> 00:07:07.820 that we could take. 00:07:07.820 --> 00:07:11.360 So we had a battle group of just over 600. 00:07:11.810 --> 00:07:14.600 Now, when I went in there, I had seven jobs 00:07:14.600 --> 00:07:16.760 and no staff to do it because of the numbers. 00:07:16.760 --> 00:07:20.330 So I worked six months, 19 hour days, the five 00:07:20.330 --> 00:07:22.740 hours that I did get to sleep we're not 00:07:22.760 --> 00:07:26.955 a consecutive and so basically when you're 00:07:26.955 --> 00:07:30.915 sleep deprived, your ability to make sound 00:07:31.215 --> 00:07:34.875 mental decisions or your brain's ability 00:07:35.295 --> 00:07:37.755 to cope with stress is greatly reduced. 00:07:38.025 --> 00:07:38.505 Sure. 00:07:38.685 --> 00:07:42.015 So couple that with leadership that is 00:07:42.015 --> 00:07:44.055 not making decisions, my bosses would 00:07:44.055 --> 00:07:45.225 not make decisions. 00:07:45.615 --> 00:07:47.625 So really it was left to me and two other 00:07:47.625 --> 00:07:50.745 captains to pretty much run this battle group. 00:07:51.420 --> 00:07:53.400 And as a result, we ended up basically 00:07:53.550 --> 00:07:57.180 getting PTSD as well as our careers ended 00:07:57.180 --> 00:07:59.340 up getting sacrificed because of it, but it 00:07:59.340 --> 00:08:02.719 was to do, but we did the right thing, you know? 00:08:03.760 --> 00:08:05.770 So I ain't, so the attributes of my 00:08:05.770 --> 00:08:09.520 PTSD is I have issues with authority. 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:15.950 I have issues, so I have anxiety, I have 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:17.680 anger management issues. 00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:21.470 So I could go on. 00:08:21.659 --> 00:08:23.940 There's about six different attributes 00:08:23.940 --> 00:08:27.960 of PTSD that I have and they classified 00:08:27.960 --> 00:08:30.960 my PTSD is one of the most severe that they 00:08:30.960 --> 00:08:32.530 had seen at the time. 00:08:32.579 --> 00:08:35.250 Plus what made it more severe was that I 00:08:35.250 --> 00:08:39.510 went, you know, almost 15 years undiagnosed 00:08:39.510 --> 00:08:40.140 and untreated. 00:08:40.710 --> 00:08:41.039 Right. 00:08:41.280 --> 00:08:44.130 So in 2014, when I got laid off and was in 00:08:44.130 --> 00:08:46.260 treatment, what I was doing with Veterans 00:08:46.260 --> 00:08:49.480 Affairs was I was, I'd been in a seven year 00:08:49.750 --> 00:08:53.760 battle I'll use those terms appropriately 00:08:54.089 --> 00:08:56.670 battle with the mid-level management within 00:08:56.670 --> 00:08:59.550 Veterans Affairs, and then including my member 00:08:59.550 --> 00:09:01.949 of parliament, Blake Richards, and his staff, 00:09:02.310 --> 00:09:04.560 they were struggling to try and get into 00:09:04.560 --> 00:09:08.069 Veterans Affairs to look at, because of my 00:09:08.069 --> 00:09:11.180 PTSD diagnosis, it was like largely believed 00:09:11.739 --> 00:09:15.239 that, if I got my PTSD from Kosovo in 99, and 00:09:15.239 --> 00:09:19.739 I had to release medical in 2001, you know. 00:09:19.790 --> 00:09:20.609 Ahh, that game. 00:09:20.969 --> 00:09:21.160 Yeah. 00:09:21.160 --> 00:09:21.599 That game. 00:09:21.615 --> 00:09:23.625 So should I have been medically released. 00:09:24.165 --> 00:09:27.795 So long story short, just so happens, a total God 00:09:27.795 --> 00:09:30.495 thing I tell people, I happened to call into 00:09:30.915 --> 00:09:33.375 a local radio station here in the Calgary 00:09:33.375 --> 00:09:37.065 area and Daniel Smith at the time was the host. 00:09:37.425 --> 00:09:39.855 And she had Kent Hare who was the new minister of 00:09:39.855 --> 00:09:44.025 Veterans Affairs on there and this was in 2014. 00:09:44.775 --> 00:09:48.300 So I hadn't been getting any funding yet from 00:09:48.300 --> 00:09:50.850 Veterans Affairs, so I'm on air with him and 00:09:50.850 --> 00:09:51.870 I'm bawling my eyes out. 00:09:51.900 --> 00:09:54.360 I'd burned through like a hundred thousand 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:56.670 dollars of my life savings, trying to 00:09:56.670 --> 00:09:58.350 support my family and I after getting laid 00:09:58.350 --> 00:09:59.520 off with oil and gas. 00:10:00.060 --> 00:10:02.550 My treatment was in was in question because I'm 00:10:02.550 --> 00:10:03.780 trying to find jobs. 00:10:04.350 --> 00:10:07.200 And he basically, I put him on the spot and he 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:09.360 had no choice, but to say, hey, you know what, 00:10:09.390 --> 00:10:10.080 we're going to help you. 00:10:10.560 --> 00:10:12.510 We're going to go off air, he says, I'm going 00:10:12.810 --> 00:10:15.150 to give you my executive assistance, phone number, 00:10:15.555 --> 00:10:17.825 you're going to call her tomorrow and he says. 00:10:17.825 --> 00:10:18.035 Wow. 00:10:18.035 --> 00:10:18.825 We'll take it from there. 00:10:18.825 --> 00:10:20.625 And really, and he did follow through. 00:10:21.045 --> 00:10:21.405 Wow. 00:10:21.465 --> 00:10:23.655 He ended up organizing a meeting with the 00:10:23.655 --> 00:10:26.825 current Minister of National Defence. 00:10:26.925 --> 00:10:28.005 Interesting enough, we served 00:10:28.005 --> 00:10:28.905 together in Bosnia. 00:10:29.905 --> 00:10:33.145 Himself, my member of parliament and then he, 00:10:33.285 --> 00:10:35.415 basically told a bunch of generals to go on redact 00:10:35.415 --> 00:10:38.175 my medical files and they had a meeting in Ottawa 00:10:38.625 --> 00:10:42.285 and it basically, it was a holy crap, when they 00:10:42.285 --> 00:10:43.334 saw what was written. 00:10:43.844 --> 00:10:46.185 And it was basically flood gates opened up, 00:10:46.755 --> 00:10:48.285 you know, put me in a rehabilitation or 00:10:48.285 --> 00:10:49.155 retraining program. 00:10:49.624 --> 00:10:51.615 At the time, put me on the earnings 00:10:51.615 --> 00:10:53.834 loss program, they were likely facing a 00:10:53.834 --> 00:10:56.505 massive lawsuit if they didn't do something. 00:10:56.564 --> 00:11:00.104 But that was a lengthy battle, that 00:11:00.104 --> 00:11:01.875 took seven years to get to that moment. 00:11:02.415 --> 00:11:03.885 And that doesn't help PTSD. 00:11:04.395 --> 00:11:05.325 No it doesn't. 00:11:05.355 --> 00:11:08.555 And that's one of the issues and we can talk 00:11:08.555 --> 00:11:10.445 about that a little bit more when we talk 00:11:10.445 --> 00:11:12.105 about specifically about the Veteran Hunters. 00:11:12.125 --> 00:11:18.005 But you know, a lot of guys are not in a 00:11:19.485 --> 00:11:22.065 frame of mind to be able to deal with a 00:11:22.065 --> 00:11:25.305 massive bureaucracy that is Veterans Affairs. 00:11:25.665 --> 00:11:25.815 Right. 00:11:25.815 --> 00:11:30.175 And I had, and I worked briefly for Parks Canada 00:11:30.195 --> 00:11:31.275 for about three months. 00:11:31.605 --> 00:11:34.275 That was in an attempt for Veterans Affairs 00:11:34.275 --> 00:11:36.495 for me to see if I could get reintegrated back 00:11:36.495 --> 00:11:37.395 into the workplace. 00:11:37.845 --> 00:11:39.705 And my boss there had been a director 00:11:39.705 --> 00:11:41.115 in Veterans Affairs for coming over 00:11:41.115 --> 00:11:41.865 to Parks Canada. 00:11:42.465 --> 00:11:44.715 And she told me, she said, you know, the issue 00:11:44.715 --> 00:11:46.695 was middle-management and Veterans Affairs 00:11:46.695 --> 00:11:47.185 is that right? 00:11:47.965 --> 00:11:53.460 So Veterans Affairs is completely managed out of 00:11:53.490 --> 00:11:55.920 Prince Edward Island and it's staffed by people 00:11:55.920 --> 00:11:57.000 in Prince Edward Islands. 00:11:57.420 --> 00:12:01.050 So she goes, the issue is, is that the people 00:12:01.050 --> 00:12:04.200 from PEI who have jobs with VAC, look at the 00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:09.270 issues and go, well, I have 20 years to resolve 00:12:09.270 --> 00:12:12.540 this issue because they just look at it as a job. 00:12:12.689 --> 00:12:13.140 Right. 00:12:14.055 --> 00:12:17.385 But a veteran, we don't have 20 years. 00:12:17.565 --> 00:12:18.485 No, you don't. 00:12:18.565 --> 00:12:20.535 Some of us might not be here next week, let 00:12:20.535 --> 00:12:22.665 alone 20 years from now and we have families 00:12:22.665 --> 00:12:23.475 and different things. 00:12:23.475 --> 00:12:25.875 And so it was when I saw that, I was like, 00:12:25.875 --> 00:12:28.185 Whoa, you know, that's why some of us take 00:12:28.185 --> 00:12:32.225 seven years dealing with these guys and or, 00:12:32.745 --> 00:12:35.835 you know, I have other injuries, you know, like 00:12:35.835 --> 00:12:37.995 being in the infantry is really, it's like 00:12:37.995 --> 00:12:41.175 playing on a pro football team without padding. 00:12:41.745 --> 00:12:42.335 Mhmm. 00:12:42.355 --> 00:12:43.275 That's what I tell people. 00:12:43.275 --> 00:12:45.344 And we suffer like, you know, I tore my 00:12:45.425 --> 00:12:46.964 lisfranc ligament, and if you look that up, 00:12:46.995 --> 00:12:49.574 that's a common NFL injury that's usually a 00:12:49.574 --> 00:12:50.775 casting for eight weeks. 00:12:50.775 --> 00:12:53.895 Well, I wrapped it with a tensor bandage 00:12:53.895 --> 00:12:57.135 and took a bottle of aspirin and kept going. 00:12:57.495 --> 00:12:59.925 And that resulted in the knee left 00:12:59.925 --> 00:13:01.005 knee and hip issues. 00:13:01.574 --> 00:13:05.935 And I went to three hearings on those, 00:13:05.954 --> 00:13:06.915 but was successful. 00:13:07.995 --> 00:13:11.535 So one of the things that I found was good was all 00:13:11.535 --> 00:13:14.444 of these struggles that I went through really helps 00:13:14.444 --> 00:13:17.985 me relate with veterans. 00:13:18.035 --> 00:13:22.515 CAuse I've gone through many cases, it's taken 00:13:22.515 --> 00:13:27.195 me longer and through more challenges to 00:13:27.195 --> 00:13:29.985 get the benefits that I have today. 00:13:30.525 --> 00:13:33.015 And so that puts me in a position where, when I'm 00:13:33.015 --> 00:13:35.805 working one-on-one with veterans or talking to 00:13:35.805 --> 00:13:40.915 guys through our social media or we're just 00:13:40.915 --> 00:13:43.455 happen to be out hunting with the Veteran Hunters. 00:13:43.845 --> 00:13:46.205 It helps me better relate with guys and 00:13:46.205 --> 00:13:49.275 then and I hope my experiences are able to 00:13:49.275 --> 00:13:50.325 encourage other guys. 00:13:50.325 --> 00:13:53.415 So that they go well, you know, Todd went through 00:13:54.040 --> 00:13:56.830 way more than what I'm currently going through 00:13:56.830 --> 00:14:00.940 so hopefully we can inspire and encourage 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:03.880 other veterans to just stick with the fight. 00:14:04.330 --> 00:14:07.510 Suicide has been a huge issue. 00:14:07.510 --> 00:14:10.180 I know, I talk to my American counterparts 00:14:10.210 --> 00:14:11.710 and we've got a really good relationship with 00:14:11.710 --> 00:14:13.600 a group like us out of like the Veteran 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:14.740 Hunters out of Oregon. 00:14:15.190 --> 00:14:17.170 I mean, they were seeing 22 a day. 00:14:17.590 --> 00:14:19.360 Now, we're not seeing those numbers up here, 00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:21.460 but at one point we were seeing probably 00:14:21.460 --> 00:14:22.570 four to five a week. 00:14:23.280 --> 00:14:23.880 Geez. 00:14:24.125 --> 00:14:27.735 One of my hunter hosts, he's one of the few guys 00:14:27.735 --> 00:14:29.954 still alive from his platoon in Afghanistan. 00:14:30.435 --> 00:14:32.145 Those that didn't die in Afghanistan have 00:14:32.145 --> 00:14:33.344 taken their lives here. 00:14:34.994 --> 00:14:40.295 Well before we go too far into the advent 00:14:40.295 --> 00:14:46.985 of Veteran Hunters and looking at you as a 00:14:46.985 --> 00:14:48.635 role model for other people to be able 00:14:48.635 --> 00:14:49.594 to take their lead. 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:53.749 You mentioned a lot of things here and there's. 00:14:53.829 --> 00:14:54.379 Sorry, yeah. 00:14:54.499 --> 00:14:59.240 I know it's a huge topic and I'm trying to keep it 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:00.880 specific to me, but yeah. 00:15:01.160 --> 00:15:05.599 It's massive and I gotta, maybe I'll just 00:15:05.599 --> 00:15:07.339 jump right into this question as you're 00:15:07.370 --> 00:15:08.240 going through that. 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:09.800 It's very clear to me that you've said 00:15:09.800 --> 00:15:11.719 this before, and you've told us before. 00:15:13.725 --> 00:15:18.825 And tone, the pitch, the verbal, the pair 00:15:18.825 --> 00:15:22.965 of verbal, there are instances of activation 00:15:22.965 --> 00:15:25.935 that, that you can see as you're going through it. 00:15:25.935 --> 00:15:28.995 The areas that are going to be more 00:15:28.995 --> 00:15:30.225 difficult to talk about. 00:15:30.795 --> 00:15:32.955 Do you find it's like going down a dirt 00:15:32.955 --> 00:15:35.925 road where you end up wearing some ruts in 00:15:35.925 --> 00:15:40.005 it and the more you go down that same road, 00:15:40.035 --> 00:15:41.865 the more you keep going to those same ruts. 00:15:41.865 --> 00:15:45.265 And you start ingraining the same sort of physical 00:15:45.265 --> 00:15:49.395 and psychophysiological responses to what 00:15:49.395 --> 00:15:50.205 you're talking about. 00:15:50.235 --> 00:15:52.335 Like, is it difficult to go through and talk about 00:15:52.335 --> 00:15:53.505 this over and over again? 00:15:54.155 --> 00:15:57.005 Well, in some ways yes and in some ways no. 00:15:57.005 --> 00:15:59.705 So I mean, while we've been talking about this, 00:15:59.705 --> 00:16:01.895 so I've been having like mental flashbacks to 00:16:01.895 --> 00:16:04.185 all of the conversations and all the incidences. 00:16:04.215 --> 00:16:04.435 Right. 00:16:04.435 --> 00:16:07.955 Of everything about it. 00:16:07.955 --> 00:16:10.935 But one of the things I've learned is that, 00:16:11.325 --> 00:16:14.025 you know, so the whole time I'm talking about 00:16:14.025 --> 00:16:15.115 it and we're doing this interview, I'm 00:16:15.115 --> 00:16:16.755 also self-talking. 00:16:16.755 --> 00:16:19.785 So in the back of my mind, I'm telling myself, 00:16:19.785 --> 00:16:20.745 you know what, it's okay. 00:16:20.745 --> 00:16:23.745 Like, I know why I'm feeling these ways, but 00:16:23.745 --> 00:16:26.355 you know, the benefits outweigh the negative 00:16:26.355 --> 00:16:27.225 feelings I'm have. 00:16:27.255 --> 00:16:30.855 Like, you know, if I can encourage and inspire and 00:16:30.855 --> 00:16:35.204 help and serve others, then that's better then, 00:16:35.775 --> 00:16:42.605 you know, for half hour or so interview, I can 00:16:42.845 --> 00:16:45.704 endure that and then decompress afterwards. 00:16:46.144 --> 00:16:53.550 You mentioned that at the beginning there you 00:16:53.910 --> 00:16:57.300 three times overseas, 2001 left the military, 00:16:57.330 --> 00:17:00.900 but you said that you can look back now and 00:17:00.900 --> 00:17:03.240 see that at one point you were suffering the 00:17:03.270 --> 00:17:05.069 early effects of PTSD. 00:17:05.730 --> 00:17:06.030 Yes. 00:17:06.899 --> 00:17:09.119 At the time you probably didn't recognize it 00:17:09.179 --> 00:17:10.140 and maybe somebody. 00:17:10.140 --> 00:17:10.220 No. 00:17:10.220 --> 00:17:12.300 Listening to this podcast might be going 00:17:12.300 --> 00:17:14.459 through something similar and not recognize it. 00:17:14.760 --> 00:17:17.550 Would you be willing to identify some of 00:17:17.550 --> 00:17:20.280 those early effects of PTSD that with the 00:17:20.280 --> 00:17:22.050 benefit of hindsight, you're able to. 00:17:22.659 --> 00:17:22.960 Sure. 00:17:23.915 --> 00:17:25.234 One of the things, one of the things I 00:17:25.234 --> 00:17:27.394 used to call it was passionate frustration. 00:17:28.004 --> 00:17:28.784 I like that term. 00:17:29.114 --> 00:17:29.434 Yeah. 00:17:29.434 --> 00:17:33.245 And cause I've always been, one of the 00:17:33.245 --> 00:17:35.084 things that's always frustrated me is that, 00:17:35.614 --> 00:17:37.774 as a leader is when the organization does 00:17:37.774 --> 00:17:40.145 not allow it to reach its maximum potential 00:17:40.145 --> 00:17:43.719 because usually senior leaders are in the way. 00:17:44.320 --> 00:17:47.189 So for me, in our recall, you know, 00:17:47.189 --> 00:17:49.409 having that passionate frustration was one 00:17:49.409 --> 00:17:52.800 of the early signs of having PTSD and really 00:17:52.949 --> 00:17:55.979 that's a combination of, I'll try and break it 00:17:55.979 --> 00:17:57.489 down into sentiments. 00:17:57.489 --> 00:18:01.649 So, anxiety, fight or flight, there's a lot 00:18:01.649 --> 00:18:04.995 of anger, anger and frustration in there. 00:18:05.355 --> 00:18:09.675 So when I was working in the civilian sector from 00:18:09.675 --> 00:18:16.665 2001 till 2007, I either left organizations by 00:18:16.665 --> 00:18:19.065 choice or were laid off. 00:18:19.365 --> 00:18:22.965 Sometimes I didn't stay with an organization 00:18:22.965 --> 00:18:25.304 for very long, and that was also one of the 00:18:25.304 --> 00:18:28.544 indicators when I was doing the intake for 00:18:28.544 --> 00:18:30.915 the operational stress injury clinic here. 00:18:31.649 --> 00:18:35.969 Was, you know, how many jobs did you have in a 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:37.020 given period of time? 00:18:37.629 --> 00:18:41.129 So I think, trying to remember now, but 00:18:41.379 --> 00:18:43.830 you know, I've worked for almost every 00:18:43.860 --> 00:18:47.510 oil and gas producer in the oil sands. 00:18:47.750 --> 00:18:52.909 If you were to know then what you know now, when 00:18:52.909 --> 00:18:56.389 you first saw those early signs, what advice would 00:18:56.389 --> 00:18:57.379 you give to somebody. 00:18:58.000 --> 00:18:59.564 What advice would you give yourself? 00:18:59.804 --> 00:19:01.215 My dad told me when I was getting out. 00:19:01.215 --> 00:19:03.314 He's like, you know, well what are you going to do? 00:19:03.584 --> 00:19:05.834 And I was getting out without even a plan. 00:19:06.645 --> 00:19:07.635 I just wanted out. 00:19:07.875 --> 00:19:08.115 Right. 00:19:08.175 --> 00:19:13.064 And so my advice to you or any of your listeners 00:19:13.064 --> 00:19:18.645 would be, take a deep breath and stay in, 00:19:19.230 --> 00:19:23.399 don't don't leave out of anger or frustration. 00:19:24.030 --> 00:19:25.410 And I know that it's hard because if you're 00:19:25.410 --> 00:19:28.340 early onset, it's hard. 00:19:28.340 --> 00:19:30.379 Cause all you want to do is just, it's just 00:19:30.379 --> 00:19:31.430 get out, get away. 00:19:31.460 --> 00:19:33.770 I mean, for five years, I couldn't even stand 00:19:33.770 --> 00:19:35.899 to look at a uniform and then I went and then 00:19:35.899 --> 00:19:37.610 we go into Afghanistan and then one day 00:19:37.610 --> 00:19:40.550 in August, 2006 for soldiers, I used to serve 00:19:40.610 --> 00:19:42.530 that I used to serve with died in one day. 00:19:42.860 --> 00:19:44.960 And that just changed, now I wanted back again. 00:19:45.410 --> 00:19:47.450 Yeah, you know what, just be patient, seek 00:19:47.450 --> 00:19:50.925 help, find the right people to talk to. 00:19:50.955 --> 00:19:55.764 And I didn't, when I think back now, I went 00:19:55.764 --> 00:19:58.745 to different people to try and get advice, but 00:19:58.745 --> 00:20:01.535 their careers had already been, their careers 00:20:01.535 --> 00:20:02.375 were already over. 00:20:02.795 --> 00:20:06.165 So there were guys in JTF2, that I knew. 00:20:06.665 --> 00:20:08.580 And those are guys that I should have 00:20:08.580 --> 00:20:12.570 been talking to who are still serving and we're 00:20:12.570 --> 00:20:13.440 having good careers. 00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:16.180 In fact, we were at bowling and spending 00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:18.930 time together and my wife's actually related 00:20:18.930 --> 00:20:21.030 to one of the guys that was serving at the time. 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:24.435 And those were the guys I should have been talking 00:20:24.435 --> 00:20:27.985 to and looking for some advice, not looking 00:20:28.015 --> 00:20:30.465 at older guys whose careers were now over. 00:20:30.765 --> 00:20:33.465 So I would say be patient, take a deep 00:20:33.465 --> 00:20:36.285 breath, try and get the medical system 00:20:36.285 --> 00:20:37.245 onside for you. 00:20:37.635 --> 00:20:41.235 And then reach out to guys whose careers are 00:20:41.235 --> 00:20:45.235 still moving forward and who you can trust. 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:48.240 And that's one of the things I think back now, 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:49.920 and even my wife, we were talking about it 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:52.090 last week on our kind of on our date night. 00:20:52.460 --> 00:20:54.440 Was that like, she even agreed. 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:58.130 She was like, yeah, why didn't we, we 00:20:58.130 --> 00:21:00.740 sat down was a couple all the time, like 00:21:00.740 --> 00:21:01.649 one was her cousin. 00:21:02.409 --> 00:21:03.920 And I'm like, yeah, I don't know why I didn't 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:05.720 even like talk to him. 00:21:06.060 --> 00:21:10.130 And, cause he could have probably helped 00:21:10.130 --> 00:21:13.754 me out better than any of the other officers 00:21:13.754 --> 00:21:14.745 that I was talking to. 00:21:14.865 --> 00:21:17.715 So anyhow, I mean, hindsight's 2020. 00:21:17.975 --> 00:21:18.635 Of course. 00:21:18.905 --> 00:21:20.735 But being able to share that with others can 00:21:20.735 --> 00:21:21.754 be helpful for sure. 00:21:22.175 --> 00:21:22.504 Yeah. 00:21:23.735 --> 00:21:26.945 Now, and I'm just speculating here 00:21:26.945 --> 00:21:28.145 a little bit, but. 00:21:28.205 --> 00:21:28.564 Yep. 00:21:29.055 --> 00:21:31.665 Mental health has a social stigma 00:21:31.845 --> 00:21:32.504 attached to it. 00:21:33.014 --> 00:21:33.995 I mean, there. 00:21:33.995 --> 00:21:34.105 Yes. 00:21:34.155 --> 00:21:37.725 Unfortunately, it does and people look at mental 00:21:37.725 --> 00:21:41.115 health as a bad thing. 00:21:41.205 --> 00:21:44.565 And you'd mentioned that I was at the 00:21:44.565 --> 00:21:45.805 lithfranc tendon? 00:21:46.024 --> 00:21:46.774 IS that what you called it? 00:21:46.805 --> 00:21:48.515 Yeah, the lisfranc. 00:21:49.335 --> 00:21:49.635 Yeah. 00:21:49.835 --> 00:21:50.135 Okay. 00:21:50.135 --> 00:21:55.395 So you'd injured your lisfranc tendon and if 00:21:55.395 --> 00:21:57.554 you were to go into a doctor and have them 00:21:57.554 --> 00:21:59.145 take a look at you, a doctor could probably 00:21:59.324 --> 00:22:01.465 diagnose that there's a procedure for being 00:22:01.495 --> 00:22:02.264 able to look at them. 00:22:02.274 --> 00:22:04.584 Yeah, simple Xray and yeah. 00:22:04.614 --> 00:22:04.844 Right. 00:22:04.914 --> 00:22:06.455 And you were saying what, six to eight weeks, 00:22:06.455 --> 00:22:08.044 put it in a cast and. 00:22:08.074 --> 00:22:08.284 Yep. 00:22:08.554 --> 00:22:08.945 There we go. 00:22:08.945 --> 00:22:11.435 We know the process in order to be able to deal 00:22:11.435 --> 00:22:12.304 with an injury like that. 00:22:12.304 --> 00:22:16.235 And if left unabated, it will develop into 00:22:16.235 --> 00:22:17.705 other things like knee and hip problems 00:22:17.705 --> 00:22:18.555 like it did in you. 00:22:19.225 --> 00:22:19.495 Sure. 00:22:19.665 --> 00:22:22.535 Different people with different genetic makeups 00:22:22.535 --> 00:22:24.605 will, maybe they're more heavy set and they're 00:22:24.605 --> 00:22:26.075 going to need a little bit longer before they 00:22:26.075 --> 00:22:28.865 could put weight on it or maybe there, but 00:22:29.045 --> 00:22:30.935 these are all variables that we know about. 00:22:31.145 --> 00:22:32.305 And it's easy to look at. 00:22:32.315 --> 00:22:37.050 With mental health, it seems that since 00:22:37.050 --> 00:22:39.180 there is this level of unknown, which is 00:22:39.180 --> 00:22:40.790 actually starting to get narrowed down, I 00:22:40.790 --> 00:22:43.110 mean they're learning more and more about how 00:22:43.110 --> 00:22:47.070 to quantitatively and qualitatively define 00:22:47.220 --> 00:22:48.180 the mental health. 00:22:49.120 --> 00:22:51.480 But since it's sort of this more nebulous 00:22:51.660 --> 00:22:55.590 sort of thing, it seems that, I don't know 00:22:55.590 --> 00:22:58.860 and I'm just speaking from observation here. 00:22:59.370 --> 00:23:02.250 But one of two things happen either A. 00:23:03.195 --> 00:23:08.565 I people will look at it and be dismissive 00:23:08.565 --> 00:23:10.125 of it because they say, oh, I can't be 00:23:10.125 --> 00:23:12.195 anything, I can't see the issue right. 00:23:12.885 --> 00:23:14.815 Or B. 00:23:14.865 --> 00:23:18.555 somebody who is suffering from mental illness 00:23:19.035 --> 00:23:23.490 may look at themselves as bad or wrong or 00:23:23.490 --> 00:23:26.490 something that needs to be fixed as opposed 00:23:26.490 --> 00:23:29.430 to this being a natural response, a natural, 00:23:29.430 --> 00:23:31.649 psychological and physiological response 00:23:31.649 --> 00:23:32.730 to a stressor in a life. 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:37.149 Just like the lisfranc tendon being 00:23:37.149 --> 00:23:41.090 injured from too much stress or injury, 00:23:41.210 --> 00:23:43.999 however it happened. 00:23:44.540 --> 00:23:46.575 And with that, I don't know. 00:23:46.575 --> 00:23:48.245 It can become. 00:23:49.055 --> 00:23:49.235 Yeah. 00:23:49.235 --> 00:23:52.415 I mean, you make a great analogy there and I'll 00:23:52.415 --> 00:23:53.125 just carry with it. 00:23:53.125 --> 00:23:53.284 Sure. 00:23:54.475 --> 00:23:58.325 So with the lisfranc there's, yeah an x-ray 00:23:58.385 --> 00:24:01.895 shows it, and there's a standard course of 00:24:01.895 --> 00:24:03.725 treatment, but if it doesn't get treated, 00:24:03.755 --> 00:24:06.635 then there's consequences and mental health 00:24:06.635 --> 00:24:07.835 injuries like your brain. 00:24:07.835 --> 00:24:12.555 So the issue is, people see a cast on 00:24:12.555 --> 00:24:15.720 an arm or on a leg or, and that injury is 00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:17.080 totally obvious, right? 00:24:17.460 --> 00:24:22.050 Well, we don't physically see mental 00:24:22.520 --> 00:24:23.490 health injuries. 00:24:23.520 --> 00:24:26.620 We see the consequences of it, we can see 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:29.160 tremors or even while we're chatting and you 00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:31.030 probably watch, I fidget. 00:24:31.050 --> 00:24:31.170 Sure. 00:24:31.170 --> 00:24:33.120 My wife gets nauseous all the time cause I 00:24:33.120 --> 00:24:35.250 have one leg that just constantly moves and 00:24:36.150 --> 00:24:38.190 it's funny, and it's from all the shooting 00:24:38.190 --> 00:24:39.150 and training that I do. 00:24:39.150 --> 00:24:39.500 Sure. 00:24:39.550 --> 00:24:41.580 If we're watching a TV show and guys are 00:24:41.580 --> 00:24:44.085 shooting, I don't even notice it, but 00:24:44.085 --> 00:24:46.275 by muscles are still flinching, like I'm 00:24:46.815 --> 00:24:51.825 shooting in the show and she totally notices it. 00:24:52.065 --> 00:24:53.825 And she's been awesome. 00:24:54.285 --> 00:24:56.295 You know, I've given her over the years, 00:24:56.425 --> 00:24:59.865 lots of cause to leave and a lot of guys 00:24:59.865 --> 00:25:00.915 do and she hasn't. 00:25:01.365 --> 00:25:03.275 And I thank God for that. 00:25:03.345 --> 00:25:04.135 That's massive. 00:25:04.385 --> 00:25:06.865 And I thank her and she's been a really 00:25:06.865 --> 00:25:08.565 key to my treatment. 00:25:08.805 --> 00:25:14.475 So I'll back up a little bit, so just like the 00:25:14.475 --> 00:25:18.465 lisfranc, not getting properly treated, and 00:25:18.465 --> 00:25:20.615 I ended up with left knee and hip issues. 00:25:20.625 --> 00:25:24.765 Well, with your PTSD not getting treated, then you 00:25:24.765 --> 00:25:31.505 end up with, so I have irritable bowel, I have, 00:25:32.505 --> 00:25:35.025 oh trying to think all the other consequences. 00:25:35.025 --> 00:25:39.015 So veteran's affairs has a number of, I 00:25:39.015 --> 00:25:43.665 think, 6 -10 other illnesses that you can 00:25:43.665 --> 00:25:45.785 get just by having PTSD. 00:25:45.795 --> 00:25:48.615 I mean, if your civilian doctor does the paperwork 00:25:48.615 --> 00:25:50.325 for it, they like, yup. 00:25:50.985 --> 00:25:55.885 It's in that list of 6 to 10 that we know, 00:25:55.905 --> 00:25:58.215 because guys like me have slogged in the 00:25:58.215 --> 00:26:00.885 trenches going through this and they've made a 00:26:00.885 --> 00:26:03.495 lot of mistakes and you know what, I don't fault 00:26:03.495 --> 00:26:07.295 the people that, that helped treat me, in the 00:26:07.365 --> 00:26:08.535 six and a half years. 00:26:08.535 --> 00:26:11.865 I mean, I was part of the plan, that was part 00:26:11.865 --> 00:26:14.145 of the plan that Todd Hisey was going back to 00:26:14.145 --> 00:26:17.294 the civilian workforce and that didn't work out 00:26:17.294 --> 00:26:19.004 and we can, we'll talk about that in a bit. 00:26:19.574 --> 00:26:22.004 So yeah, I mean mental health injuries 00:26:22.064 --> 00:26:23.985 aren't usually seen. 00:26:24.465 --> 00:26:28.514 My mom saw me as a different person when I 00:26:28.514 --> 00:26:29.685 came home from Kosovo. 00:26:30.155 --> 00:26:33.135 I mean she knew me, she knew me pre Kosovo, 00:26:33.855 --> 00:26:35.955 my wife and I had been dating before 00:26:35.955 --> 00:26:36.725 going to Kosovo. 00:26:36.725 --> 00:26:39.225 But I mean your family is the one who knows 00:26:39.225 --> 00:26:40.034 you the best right? 00:26:40.034 --> 00:26:44.594 So my mom actually was, played a role in talking 00:26:44.594 --> 00:26:47.985 to Veterans Affairs case management because she 00:26:47.985 --> 00:26:49.745 knew baseline Todd Hisey. 00:26:50.175 --> 00:26:57.074 My wife knew PTSD Todd and we were talking 00:26:57.074 --> 00:27:00.000 about consequences too, you know, I 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:03.450 raised three kids being undiagnosed with PTSD. 00:27:03.450 --> 00:27:05.560 So all three of them unfortunately, whether 00:27:05.560 --> 00:27:07.350 it's, they're still doing studies to 00:27:07.350 --> 00:27:12.780 determine whether there's genetics to PTSD, but 00:27:12.780 --> 00:27:14.020 nurture versus nature. 00:27:14.020 --> 00:27:19.330 Each one of them have a couple attributes of 00:27:19.330 --> 00:27:23.310 my PTSD and one of the things I will say is the 00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:27.165 treatment that I ever received from Veterans 00:27:27.165 --> 00:27:30.105 Affairs, with respect to treating my PTSD is 00:27:30.105 --> 00:27:33.915 far and away superior to anything you will 00:27:33.915 --> 00:27:37.455 see in a provincial mental health system. 00:27:37.485 --> 00:27:38.535 It is absolutely. 00:27:38.715 --> 00:27:39.105 Really? 00:27:39.135 --> 00:27:40.125 Disgusting. 00:27:40.485 --> 00:27:40.995 Really? 00:27:41.325 --> 00:27:43.635 Our provincial mental health 00:27:43.665 --> 00:27:45.585 programs, especially here in Alberta. 00:27:45.975 --> 00:27:50.165 I've seen, cause veterans afairs didn't have much 00:27:50.545 --> 00:27:52.335 to give for my family. 00:27:52.905 --> 00:27:55.605 So a lot of what my kids got, their 00:27:55.605 --> 00:27:58.485 treatment was in the public system and it is 00:27:58.485 --> 00:28:00.885 absolutely disgusting. 00:28:00.885 --> 00:28:05.685 In fact, I personally know more about trauma 00:28:05.685 --> 00:28:08.595 treatment and therapy than the people being 00:28:08.595 --> 00:28:11.865 paid to do trauma treatment and therapy. 00:28:12.810 --> 00:28:13.540 I believe that. 00:28:13.540 --> 00:28:15.960 And it's funny, I could feel that like right in 00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:17.940 my chest, it's like, Oh my, I could feel that 00:28:17.940 --> 00:28:20.530 more than talking about Kosovo because it just 00:28:20.530 --> 00:28:25.750 really, it's just really bothersome about it. 00:28:25.750 --> 00:28:29.490 So, I know veterans who I've hunted with, 00:28:29.490 --> 00:28:31.950 complain about Veterans Affairs and then, but I 00:28:31.950 --> 00:28:35.190 also have the privilege of being able to see the 00:28:35.190 --> 00:28:37.530 provincial public system. 00:28:37.650 --> 00:28:40.380 And I'm like, hey man, count yourself lucky 00:28:40.410 --> 00:28:43.470 that you did not get stuck in the provincial 00:28:43.560 --> 00:28:44.770 mental health system. 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:47.670 I mean, when I first started, I was seeing a 00:28:47.670 --> 00:28:49.000 therapist twice a week. 00:28:49.670 --> 00:28:54.120 I went six and a half years of treatment, 00:28:54.630 --> 00:28:55.890 that's like, unheard of. 00:28:56.310 --> 00:28:56.610 Wow. 00:28:56.610 --> 00:28:59.410 Like you do that, figure out the dollars and cents 00:28:59.840 --> 00:29:03.510 that Veterans Affairs had to pay to get me to 00:29:03.510 --> 00:29:06.690 a point where I could run a non-for-profit 00:29:07.215 --> 00:29:07.905 organization. 00:29:08.065 --> 00:29:08.425 Sure. 00:29:09.075 --> 00:29:11.175 And host guys for 75 days. 00:29:11.175 --> 00:29:13.575 Now, do I get burnout? 00:29:13.605 --> 00:29:14.185 Yeah, sure. 00:29:14.315 --> 00:29:17.940 And we'll talk about that too. 00:29:18.970 --> 00:29:23.330 Well, one thing that I've noticed and you brought 00:29:23.330 --> 00:29:25.010 up a really interesting point and you're bringing 00:29:25.010 --> 00:29:27.530 up a whole bunch of points and I'll apologize 00:29:27.530 --> 00:29:29.370 for interrupting, but I want to make sure we can. 00:29:29.370 --> 00:29:30.889 No it's all good, yeah, yeah, no. 00:29:30.970 --> 00:29:31.150 Yeah. 00:29:31.220 --> 00:29:32.450 I want to make sure we touch on some of these 00:29:32.450 --> 00:29:33.740 points because I think they're important. 00:29:33.740 --> 00:29:37.340 So you mentioned about the nature and nurture. 00:29:37.470 --> 00:29:37.590 Yep. 00:29:37.590 --> 00:29:43.159 And your children having different symptoms of 00:29:43.159 --> 00:29:47.669 PTSD and from everyone's different, everyone's 00:29:47.669 --> 00:29:49.530 going to have different carriers for a logical 00:29:49.530 --> 00:29:51.659 or emotional or cognitive resilience as that'll 00:29:51.659 --> 00:29:57.030 allow them to react to stressors differently. 00:29:57.149 --> 00:29:57.240 Yep. 00:29:57.470 --> 00:30:03.455 But historically speaking PTSD was something 00:30:03.455 --> 00:30:05.435 that people looked at as well, it's shell 00:30:05.435 --> 00:30:11.135 shock or, it was under the DSM4, I think as a 00:30:11.135 --> 00:30:15.215 general anxiety disorder, DSM5 a few years ago, 00:30:15.215 --> 00:30:18.215 they brought it into its own new category 00:30:18.215 --> 00:30:21.155 and it's more, what the stressor related 00:30:21.425 --> 00:30:23.585 trauma and stressor related disorders. 00:30:23.675 --> 00:30:25.805 And it's constantly evolving. 00:30:26.715 --> 00:30:30.794 And the criteria being a cluster disorder, 00:30:30.794 --> 00:30:33.495 cause it affects there's a numerous, it's not 00:30:33.495 --> 00:30:35.264 just one thing, it's not just hey, I've got 00:30:35.264 --> 00:30:36.195 a broken bone, right? 00:30:36.495 --> 00:30:38.205 It's got all these different parts. 00:30:38.205 --> 00:30:39.254 You got your stressor. 00:30:39.794 --> 00:30:42.375 And then from what I understand, we're looking 00:30:42.375 --> 00:30:46.425 at recurring thoughts, avoidance, hyper arousal, 00:30:46.425 --> 00:30:48.314 and you start putting all these things together 00:30:48.314 --> 00:30:51.105 and they say, Hey, let's call that PTSD. 00:30:52.965 --> 00:30:57.240 The fact that it's being taken outside 00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:00.929 of just those who are in the military 00:31:00.929 --> 00:31:02.790 or first responders or in these hugely 00:31:02.790 --> 00:31:07.169 traumatic situations I find interesting. 00:31:07.199 --> 00:31:10.230 And I also find it interesting the 00:31:10.230 --> 00:31:11.159 response from some. 00:31:11.189 --> 00:31:13.740 I was talking with a friend of mine a couple 00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:16.439 of days ago, an American individual, his family 00:31:16.439 --> 00:31:17.669 is all in the military. 00:31:17.909 --> 00:31:21.720 His brother's best friend's a seal and 00:31:21.990 --> 00:31:26.645 diagnosed with PTSD now my friend's wife was in 00:31:26.645 --> 00:31:30.215 a horrific car accident and brain injury, few 00:31:30.215 --> 00:31:33.425 other things, but she was diagnosed with PTSD. 00:31:33.455 --> 00:31:36.060 And when this Navy seal fellow heard 00:31:36.060 --> 00:31:37.980 about this, he lost it. 00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:40.740 He's like, how the hell does she have PTSD 00:31:40.740 --> 00:31:42.600 from this car accident? 00:31:42.600 --> 00:31:45.540 And she hasn't seen the horrors that I've seen. 00:31:45.570 --> 00:31:48.660 And I guess it comes down to the perception 00:31:48.660 --> 00:31:50.070 of what PTSD is. 00:31:50.070 --> 00:31:52.770 And it's constantly changing, I guess to 00:31:52.770 --> 00:31:55.800 some degree, with the lack of understanding, 00:31:55.800 --> 00:31:57.510 there's going to be a level of ownership that 00:31:57.510 --> 00:31:58.730 people take over it. 00:31:58.860 --> 00:32:01.780 They maybe wear it, and instead of being, 00:32:02.320 --> 00:32:07.145 Hey, I'm Bob with the broken foot, no 00:32:07.145 --> 00:32:08.014 one would say that. 00:32:08.254 --> 00:32:11.075 But they will say, Hey, there's Bob with PTSD 00:32:11.705 --> 00:32:15.245 and I think that adds to the social stigma 00:32:15.245 --> 00:32:17.804 associated with PTSD. 00:32:17.825 --> 00:32:19.054 Cause personally, I think it's a 00:32:19.054 --> 00:32:20.075 very natural thing. 00:32:20.105 --> 00:32:22.985 I think it's absolutely natural for somebody 00:32:22.985 --> 00:32:24.455 who's gone through the things that you've gone 00:32:24.455 --> 00:32:27.520 through to have the same physiological and 00:32:27.820 --> 00:32:29.110 psychological response. 00:32:29.590 --> 00:32:32.379 And it's evident in the fact that lots of other 00:32:32.379 --> 00:32:34.360 people go through the exact same thing as well. 00:32:35.355 --> 00:32:35.625 Yeah. 00:32:35.625 --> 00:32:38.175 And you know, and I really feel for some of 00:32:38.175 --> 00:32:41.804 those people, like for civilians, because they 00:32:41.804 --> 00:32:46.695 ended up having some of the same issues that 00:32:46.695 --> 00:32:49.875 we do and they don't have the same support 00:32:49.875 --> 00:32:52.924 structure that those of us who were served 00:32:52.924 --> 00:32:55.065 in the military or are first responders. 00:32:55.585 --> 00:32:59.615 And like I said, I've seen the civilian side 00:33:00.524 --> 00:33:03.465 because of my kids, or because of other family 00:33:03.945 --> 00:33:08.145 that have had to go through this, the public 00:33:08.145 --> 00:33:10.605 health system in Canada. 00:33:11.065 --> 00:33:13.605 When I was going through early treatment for 00:33:13.635 --> 00:33:17.024 PTSD and it's part of like my, one of the 00:33:17.024 --> 00:33:18.764 things they tell you in therapy is you start to 00:33:19.274 --> 00:33:22.905 change how you react or look at things right. 00:33:22.905 --> 00:33:25.635 So I used to, I used to get angry at civilians 00:33:25.635 --> 00:33:29.940 in the workplace because they'd freak out if 00:33:29.940 --> 00:33:33.150 the photocopier stopped working, like to them 00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:35.880 that was absolutely the worst day ever. 00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:37.440 And I was like, seriously, it's not 00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:39.490 life or death, you're not being shot at like, 00:33:39.510 --> 00:33:40.260 you know, seriously. 00:33:40.860 --> 00:33:42.330 And I found actually getting shot at was 00:33:42.330 --> 00:33:44.010 both exhilarating and terrifying at 00:33:44.010 --> 00:33:44.740 the same moment. 00:33:45.050 --> 00:33:46.910 So you're like cool I'm getting shot at, holy 00:33:46.910 --> 00:33:47.700 crap I'm getting shot at. 00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:48.000 Right. 00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:53.760 But then it was started, you get to you flip that 00:33:53.910 --> 00:33:57.435 upside down and like, yeah for most civilians, 00:33:57.705 --> 00:34:00.725 the worst day in their life is gonna be when 00:34:00.725 --> 00:34:02.794 that photocopier doesn't work, when they they're 00:34:02.794 --> 00:34:06.034 five minutes from doing a presentation because, 00:34:06.245 --> 00:34:07.955 one they're not trained the same as we are. 00:34:08.435 --> 00:34:10.955 It wouldn't have prepared, they're 00:34:10.955 --> 00:34:12.574 waiting till the last minute to make those 00:34:12.574 --> 00:34:15.904 photocopies rather than planning well an ahead 00:34:16.214 --> 00:34:17.915 and all those times. 00:34:18.014 --> 00:34:19.804 So they're just not, they just don't see 00:34:19.804 --> 00:34:23.580 the world the same way we do because, Hey, 00:34:23.580 --> 00:34:26.009 I've been been in the army since I was 19. 00:34:26.370 --> 00:34:28.379 So my brain, so one of the things they found 00:34:28.379 --> 00:34:31.609 too, like for those of us who joined 18, 19, 00:34:31.779 --> 00:34:34.889 our brains are still adapting and molding 00:34:34.889 --> 00:34:38.549 so by 25, your human brain doesn't really 00:34:38.549 --> 00:34:43.155 start solidifying itself till it's about age 25. 00:34:43.174 --> 00:34:43.505 Right. 00:34:43.924 --> 00:34:45.784 And my dad used to say, you don't grow a brain 00:34:45.784 --> 00:34:47.024 until you're about 25. 00:34:47.134 --> 00:34:47.455 Yeah. 00:34:47.455 --> 00:34:49.955 So for a lot of us who have served in the 00:34:49.955 --> 00:34:51.725 military, especially guys on the pointy end 00:34:51.725 --> 00:34:54.444 of the spear and you learn to be hypervigilant 00:34:54.875 --> 00:34:56.864 and you've been trained that way since, you 00:34:56.864 --> 00:34:59.205 know, you're like 18. 00:34:59.205 --> 00:35:02.635 MY sons are joining the army reserves and I 00:35:02.635 --> 00:35:04.584 got one who's probably gonna join when he's 16. 00:35:05.035 --> 00:35:07.525 So when you start training kids that are 00:35:07.525 --> 00:35:11.265 16, 17, 18, and you're training them a certain 00:35:11.265 --> 00:35:16.155 way and you're teaching them to be on, it's, and 00:35:16.155 --> 00:35:18.465 they're on all the time until they're 25 and 00:35:18.465 --> 00:35:22.405 then their brain is just, it's just stuck that way. 00:35:22.905 --> 00:35:25.305 It's hard because the army doesn't train 00:35:25.305 --> 00:35:28.905 you to integrate back into society. 00:35:29.355 --> 00:35:31.785 We train you to integrate into the military. 00:35:31.815 --> 00:35:32.055 Right. 00:35:32.085 --> 00:35:33.915 But we don't train you to reintegrate back 00:35:33.915 --> 00:35:38.325 into society and how to integrate, to deal 00:35:38.325 --> 00:35:42.045 with deal with civilians and interact with them. 00:35:43.455 --> 00:35:47.115 that also for veterans and first responders 00:35:47.115 --> 00:35:49.395 that's that could be a trigger to just having 00:35:49.395 --> 00:35:52.605 to deal with people that just don't think 00:35:52.605 --> 00:35:54.765 or get it, like we do. 00:35:55.335 --> 00:35:56.915 So, but yeah. 00:35:57.795 --> 00:36:00.225 I guess where I was sort of going with the 00:36:00.285 --> 00:36:03.765 perception of PTSD and what causes PTSD and how 00:36:03.765 --> 00:36:06.465 this seal can be upset because somebody else 00:36:06.465 --> 00:36:08.085 is in a car accident and they haven't seen 00:36:08.085 --> 00:36:09.135 the same sort of things. 00:36:09.735 --> 00:36:13.275 I would have to imagine that with that 00:36:13.335 --> 00:36:15.855 perception, it can be difficult for those 00:36:15.855 --> 00:36:18.815 in the military and those that have served 00:36:19.785 --> 00:36:23.925 to come forward with issues of PTSD if they 00:36:23.985 --> 00:36:26.385 personally look at their situation maybe 00:36:26.385 --> 00:36:29.835 not as bad as the JTF2 fellows situation or. 00:36:30.245 --> 00:36:32.985 You know, I was in some stuff, but I shouldn't 00:36:32.985 --> 00:36:34.665 complain because this person seems fine and 00:36:34.665 --> 00:36:35.895 they're in a whole bunch, a whole lot 00:36:35.895 --> 00:36:36.825 worse than I was. 00:36:36.915 --> 00:36:43.105 And I think just, well I guess I'll just ask. 00:36:43.135 --> 00:36:45.555 Do you find that, is that something that you 00:36:45.555 --> 00:36:48.075 see that people would be embarrassed or afraid 00:36:48.075 --> 00:36:51.105 to come out because they don't feel that their 00:36:51.165 --> 00:36:55.215 level of experience meets a threshold for PTSD or 00:36:55.215 --> 00:36:56.715 what they feel PTSD is? 00:36:57.240 --> 00:36:57.570 Yeah. 00:36:57.630 --> 00:37:01.110 You know, and I know guys today who have hunted 00:37:01.110 --> 00:37:04.890 with us who are hesitant to still put in a claim 00:37:05.450 --> 00:37:08.190 with Veterans Affairs for mental health, because 00:37:08.190 --> 00:37:09.480 they're like, well there's other guys that 00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:10.290 need it more than me. 00:37:10.770 --> 00:37:13.950 You know what, like seriously put it in, let 00:37:13.950 --> 00:37:16.710 the medical practitioners be the ones who make the 00:37:16.710 --> 00:37:20.370 final decision whether or not you need to be 00:37:20.700 --> 00:37:21.630 needed to be treated. 00:37:22.170 --> 00:37:24.630 That's one of the reasons why I talk so 00:37:24.630 --> 00:37:27.030 candidly, and as much as I can about my own 00:37:27.030 --> 00:37:29.160 PTSD, it's really just to encourage other 00:37:29.160 --> 00:37:30.830 guys to come forward. 00:37:30.890 --> 00:37:35.400 It's not a stigma, it's something that happened. 00:37:35.460 --> 00:37:39.390 And for me, I wouldn't be in a situation to be 00:37:39.390 --> 00:37:41.940 able to serve soldiers again with the Veteran 00:37:41.940 --> 00:37:45.240 Hunters had I not got the PTSD that I did get. 00:37:45.600 --> 00:37:48.980 I look back and look at the journey, so, yeah 00:37:48.980 --> 00:37:51.560 they redacted my files and yeah, I went through 00:37:51.770 --> 00:37:53.980 seven years in this kind of stuff, but it set me 00:37:53.980 --> 00:37:57.020 up to be in a perfect situation to be able to 00:37:57.260 --> 00:38:00.020 have these discussions, to encourage and inspire 00:38:00.020 --> 00:38:02.540 others, to start an organization like the 00:38:02.540 --> 00:38:06.590 Veteran Hunters, and then really relate to guys. 00:38:06.650 --> 00:38:06.950 Yeah. 00:38:06.950 --> 00:38:08.930 I didn't, you know, I wasn't downrange 00:38:08.930 --> 00:38:11.270 in Afghanistan, but I served in the former 00:38:11.270 --> 00:38:15.340 Yugoslavia and just as a note, the actually the 00:38:15.340 --> 00:38:18.315 guys who served in the former Yugoslavia, we 00:38:18.315 --> 00:38:21.245 are the largest group of veterans that are 00:38:21.665 --> 00:38:22.845 currently being treated. 00:38:23.254 --> 00:38:27.795 You can go on a VAC's site, like 00:38:27.795 --> 00:38:30.404 we're in the tens of thousands of guys. 00:38:31.180 --> 00:38:34.810 In 2017, there were about 7,500 Afghan veterans 00:38:34.810 --> 00:38:37.510 that were being treated for PTSD and they were a 00:38:37.510 --> 00:38:41.020 fraction of the overall guys getting treated. 00:38:41.500 --> 00:38:44.600 And based on my experience, it takes 00:38:44.620 --> 00:38:48.310 a guy about five to eight years before they 00:38:48.310 --> 00:38:51.880 actually are in getting treated, because it 00:38:51.910 --> 00:38:54.430 there's that journey where you have to get 00:38:54.430 --> 00:38:58.130 to the right frame of mind where you're able 00:38:59.029 --> 00:39:03.330 to to seek and accept help and treatment 00:39:03.940 --> 00:39:06.555 Cause a lot of guys like me, like in 2001, 00:39:07.185 --> 00:39:08.565 I wouldn't have been ready for treatment. 00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:11.040 I would've been like, no, I don't have PTSD. 00:39:11.040 --> 00:39:12.150 And it would probably would have triggered 00:39:12.150 --> 00:39:13.590 me more and made me more angry. 00:39:13.890 --> 00:39:16.120 It would have actually given the mental 00:39:16.140 --> 00:39:18.210 health practitioners more ammunition to 00:39:18.210 --> 00:39:19.410 say, yes, you do. 00:39:19.830 --> 00:39:24.120 Because the more I resist it, but in 2012, 00:39:24.610 --> 00:39:27.900 I was definitely in a place where I wanted to 00:39:27.900 --> 00:39:29.720 get better and wanted to get treatment. 00:39:30.440 --> 00:39:32.760 The unfortunate part is, you know, you know, I 00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:36.060 wasn't the best father or husband for that first 00:39:36.495 --> 00:39:39.015 13 years before I started getting treatment. 00:39:39.325 --> 00:39:42.105 And so when I think about that, that can 00:39:42.105 --> 00:39:44.065 really depress me, but I don't want to go, I 00:39:44.065 --> 00:39:45.105 don't like to go there. 00:39:45.345 --> 00:39:47.815 I kind of look at the here and now, and I spend 00:39:47.835 --> 00:39:50.815 a lot of time with my kids and, heck I don't 00:39:50.834 --> 00:39:52.455 know too many kids that can say they'd been 00:39:52.455 --> 00:39:54.674 to Africa hunting with their dad, like twice. 00:39:54.705 --> 00:39:55.395 No kidding. 00:39:55.754 --> 00:39:56.125 Yeah. 00:39:56.125 --> 00:39:58.754 And I mean, I have kids that have like top 50, 00:39:58.754 --> 00:40:01.874 top 100, SCI animals. 00:40:01.984 --> 00:40:02.974 Holy crow. 00:40:03.015 --> 00:40:03.154 Yeah. 00:40:03.154 --> 00:40:04.904 I always had a passion to go to Africa and I'm 00:40:04.904 --> 00:40:06.345 one of these guys that's like, I'm not going 00:40:06.345 --> 00:40:08.234 to Africa when I'm 70. 00:40:08.575 --> 00:40:10.814 So I put a little bit of money, put a little 00:40:10.814 --> 00:40:13.020 bit of money aside that I had received from 00:40:13.020 --> 00:40:14.820 Veterans Affairs and took my whole family. 00:40:14.820 --> 00:40:16.890 And we spent three weeks in South Africa and 00:40:16.890 --> 00:40:19.120 the outfitter that I hunted with Rob Birch, 00:40:19.720 --> 00:40:21.570 Royal Karoo Safaris, they're a sponsor of 00:40:21.570 --> 00:40:22.530 the Veteran Hunters. 00:40:22.770 --> 00:40:24.690 He's become a great friend and we're 00:40:24.690 --> 00:40:27.870 like family and yeah, no it's great. 00:40:28.290 --> 00:40:31.110 Actually our animals from the last trip 00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:33.220 are probably getting shipped this week, 00:40:33.220 --> 00:40:34.860 only about a year and a half behind schedule. 00:40:35.450 --> 00:40:36.470 That's fantastic. 00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:37.250 Yeah. 00:40:37.250 --> 00:40:40.920 So yeah, so I try and make up for the 00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:42.710 past, in the present. 00:40:44.080 --> 00:40:45.630 Have you ever read the book, mans 00:40:45.650 --> 00:40:46.370 search for meaning? 00:40:47.510 --> 00:40:48.140 Or heard of it? 00:40:49.490 --> 00:40:49.820 No. 00:40:50.210 --> 00:40:52.520 You just made an interesting comment 00:40:52.550 --> 00:40:55.700 and it was a book, it's an old book. 00:40:55.700 --> 00:40:57.830 It's translated in a bunch of different 00:40:57.830 --> 00:41:01.430 languages, but you said, if not for my experience, 00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:04.760 I would not be in a position to help others. 00:41:05.609 --> 00:41:07.240 And I like that. 00:41:07.329 --> 00:41:10.290 I mean that's a really positive way to 00:41:10.290 --> 00:41:13.830 frame what's happened and really change, 00:41:14.040 --> 00:41:15.899 essentially, the way that you're looking at things 00:41:15.899 --> 00:41:18.180 and change the way that you will respond to it. 00:41:19.269 --> 00:41:20.250 Is that conscious? 00:41:21.230 --> 00:41:25.100 You know, I think it's part of the other side 00:41:25.100 --> 00:41:28.939 of treatments and therapy where you're kind of, and 00:41:28.939 --> 00:41:32.540 I was fortunate that with part of my treatment, 00:41:32.569 --> 00:41:35.835 you know, I was able to do a master's degree. 00:41:36.225 --> 00:41:38.025 So I did a master's of science in international 00:41:38.025 --> 00:41:39.525 construction management, because when I've been 00:41:39.525 --> 00:41:41.115 in oil and gas, I'd been doing a lot of 00:41:41.115 --> 00:41:42.825 project to maintenance management as well. 00:41:42.825 --> 00:41:44.995 So they were looking for ways to build on 00:41:44.995 --> 00:41:47.505 my existing civilian resume and get me 00:41:47.505 --> 00:41:48.315 back in the workforce. 00:41:48.315 --> 00:41:49.215 So it was one of those things. 00:41:49.755 --> 00:41:52.245 But with that, I had to do a dissertation and I 00:41:52.245 --> 00:41:55.185 did, went on a landmark study on leadership 00:41:55.185 --> 00:41:57.555 styles of project and construction managers 00:41:57.555 --> 00:41:58.375 in the oil sands. 00:41:59.475 --> 00:42:02.025 And did a bunch of surveys and did some 00:42:02.025 --> 00:42:04.545 comparative analysis for other regions in 00:42:04.545 --> 00:42:09.645 the world that were heavy on project and 00:42:09.645 --> 00:42:10.665 construction management. 00:42:11.265 --> 00:42:14.785 And one of the things that I found was, why 00:42:14.785 --> 00:42:22.140 I struggled in the oil sands was, man my 00:42:22.140 --> 00:42:25.980 leadership style did not fit the prominent 00:42:25.980 --> 00:42:29.490 style that's used in oil and gas in Alberta. 00:42:30.060 --> 00:42:32.460 So they use a total authoritarian style. 00:42:33.390 --> 00:42:34.180 Right. 00:42:34.470 --> 00:42:36.900 So they bounce off between authoritarian or 00:42:36.900 --> 00:42:39.060 Laissez-faire, depending on how politically 00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:42.690 sensitive the decision is, whereas I use a 00:42:42.690 --> 00:42:43.770 servant leadership style. 00:42:44.670 --> 00:42:46.920 So basically I think from there just 00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:49.830 started building more introspective and 00:42:49.850 --> 00:42:51.630 I was able to start thinking more about 00:42:52.050 --> 00:42:55.069 how I fit in, you know. 00:42:56.040 --> 00:42:56.450 Your purpose. 00:42:56.475 --> 00:42:57.525 Am I here for, yeah. 00:42:57.635 --> 00:42:57.965 Yeah. 00:42:58.025 --> 00:43:00.375 So and that was one of the things that I 00:43:00.375 --> 00:43:02.205 struggled with, you know, when you can't soldier 00:43:02.205 --> 00:43:03.765 anymore, it's like, what's your purpose? 00:43:03.765 --> 00:43:06.255 Cause as guys, you know, we don't look at the 00:43:06.325 --> 00:43:08.715 meat, the real meaning is, we're fathers 00:43:08.715 --> 00:43:09.555 and husbands, right. 00:43:09.895 --> 00:43:12.255 That should mean a lot to us, but unfortunately 00:43:12.255 --> 00:43:15.375 we're guys and we're like, what do you do? 00:43:15.795 --> 00:43:17.685 And even in the army it's like okay, are 00:43:17.685 --> 00:43:19.125 you regular army? 00:43:19.125 --> 00:43:20.445 Are you a special forces guy? 00:43:20.445 --> 00:43:21.735 Or, and then the regular army, you're like, Oh, 00:43:21.735 --> 00:43:22.875 do you have jump wings? 00:43:22.875 --> 00:43:23.625 And all that kind of stuff. 00:43:23.655 --> 00:43:27.855 It's like, we try and compare ourselves 00:43:27.855 --> 00:43:30.375 based on who we are and what we've done. 00:43:30.375 --> 00:43:32.455 And then when you can't do it anymore, it's like. 00:43:32.625 --> 00:43:33.315 Then who are you? 00:43:33.855 --> 00:43:34.095 Yeah. 00:43:34.095 --> 00:43:34.605 Who am I? 00:43:34.665 --> 00:43:36.125 What's my meaning, my purpose. 00:43:36.125 --> 00:43:36.415 Right. 00:43:36.705 --> 00:43:41.745 And I found meaning and purpose again, when I 00:43:41.745 --> 00:43:44.415 started hunting again. 00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:49.230 And I found that when I got into archery that 00:43:49.230 --> 00:43:50.879 had started reinforcing the mindfulness 00:43:50.879 --> 00:43:52.500 techniques and the grounding techniques. 00:43:52.500 --> 00:43:54.049 And then when I coupled that with 00:43:54.049 --> 00:43:57.890 the hunting piece, bow hunting is hard. 00:43:58.310 --> 00:44:01.580 And I choose to make it even harder for myself. 00:44:01.669 --> 00:44:03.290 I spot and stalk with bow. 00:44:03.649 --> 00:44:06.740 So now I'm having to use all the skills that the 00:44:06.740 --> 00:44:09.439 army taught me to hunt a human being, which if 00:44:09.439 --> 00:44:11.559 you've hunted animals with bow spot and stalk. 00:44:11.865 --> 00:44:15.774 Man hunting humans is way easier than hunting, 00:44:16.484 --> 00:44:20.564 the smartest mule deer or elk or a white tail 00:44:20.564 --> 00:44:21.395 or stuff like that. 00:44:21.505 --> 00:44:25.334 And so I remember one season I broke 00:44:25.334 --> 00:44:29.634 my collarbone in the summertime, mountain 00:44:29.654 --> 00:44:31.845 biking with my boys, and then I was bow 00:44:31.845 --> 00:44:35.714 hunting that fall with a broken collarbone. 00:44:36.645 --> 00:44:39.300 So really it was just looking for 00:44:39.300 --> 00:44:40.260 things to work on. 00:44:40.260 --> 00:44:42.360 Cause I knew I couldn't make a long 00:44:42.610 --> 00:44:45.590 bow shot given the broken collarbone. 00:44:46.260 --> 00:44:49.110 So I worked really on my stalking and really, 00:44:49.270 --> 00:44:52.410 I stalked this mule deer buck for an hour 00:44:52.410 --> 00:44:55.170 and a half and came face-to-face with him. 00:44:55.680 --> 00:44:58.320 And for me, that was it, that was awesome. 00:44:58.350 --> 00:45:01.020 Cause I knew if I'd been healthy and you were 00:45:01.020 --> 00:45:04.530 bigger, than I was in a position to take you. 00:45:04.890 --> 00:45:07.130 So in my own mind, what that was 00:45:07.990 --> 00:45:09.465 meaning and purpose. 00:45:09.465 --> 00:45:11.145 I was able to use those skills that 00:45:11.145 --> 00:45:14.195 I'd learned, I still had it, as a soldier, 00:45:14.445 --> 00:45:16.105 that I could still do this stuff and, it's. 00:45:16.105 --> 00:45:16.655 Good point. 00:45:16.655 --> 00:45:20.655 It's funny, I found actually I'm going to 00:45:20.655 --> 00:45:24.485 Africa for a hunt was actually really, I was 00:45:24.485 --> 00:45:28.305 nearing the end of my treatment and found that 00:45:28.305 --> 00:45:31.665 it's going to Africa was a really good way to 00:45:31.665 --> 00:45:36.265 kind of close the books on my PTSD, my ability 00:45:36.285 --> 00:45:42.285 to shoot and to soldier and because where I hunt 00:45:42.295 --> 00:45:45.645 in Africa, it's spot and stalk with rifle and bow. 00:45:46.005 --> 00:45:49.185 And it's five guys in a Jeep, so you're out 00:45:49.215 --> 00:45:50.535 early morning and so it's kind of like being 00:45:50.535 --> 00:45:53.995 in the army and you're in rugged train and 00:45:53.995 --> 00:45:57.795 you're making, in some cases, making long shots 00:45:57.795 --> 00:45:58.455 and that kind of stuff. 00:45:58.455 --> 00:46:01.885 So again, for me, it was like just reinforcing 00:46:02.545 --> 00:46:04.190 the positive things that I liked about 00:46:04.190 --> 00:46:07.040 the army and then you reinforce like success. 00:46:07.410 --> 00:46:10.350 I remembered the last shot I made to the first 00:46:10.350 --> 00:46:13.410 time I went to Africa, it was a 300 metre shot 00:46:13.410 --> 00:46:16.950 on sticks, 642 feet, different elevation and 00:46:16.950 --> 00:46:19.920 an animal running uphill, passing another animal. 00:46:20.250 --> 00:46:22.170 And I hit him in the vitals and then put a. 00:46:22.170 --> 00:46:22.240 Wow. 00:46:22.240 --> 00:46:24.120 Second round of broke and broke his femur. 00:46:24.390 --> 00:46:24.660 Right. 00:46:24.720 --> 00:46:27.060 And I was like, done. 00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:31.440 Like that's, I don't know if I could make that 00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:33.180 shot again today but. 00:46:34.110 --> 00:46:34.740 I'll take it. 00:46:35.370 --> 00:46:35.820 Yeah. 00:46:35.820 --> 00:46:37.259 You know what, at that time to drop 00:46:37.259 --> 00:46:40.440 that kudu, the way that we did was, yeah. 00:46:40.560 --> 00:46:42.720 That's impressive. 00:46:42.720 --> 00:46:43.339 I was elated. 00:46:43.470 --> 00:46:43.830 Yeah. 00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:44.550 I was elated. 00:46:44.550 --> 00:46:47.500 And it just proved that no I still, though I'm 00:46:47.500 --> 00:46:49.990 not wearing uniform anymore, I still have 00:46:49.990 --> 00:46:52.339 what it takes to soldier. 00:46:53.160 --> 00:46:56.339 Have you seen the short video? 00:46:56.370 --> 00:46:58.799 I think Sitka put it out, called a place of peace. 00:46:59.430 --> 00:47:00.029 Yes. 00:47:00.060 --> 00:47:00.450 Yeah. 00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:03.540 That's a great, totally resonates with me. 00:47:03.870 --> 00:47:05.050 That's a great piece that they did. 00:47:05.180 --> 00:47:07.640 I'll put a link to it in the podcast and 00:47:07.660 --> 00:47:09.359 on the YouTube here so that other people 00:47:09.359 --> 00:47:11.370 listening can watch that. 00:47:11.370 --> 00:47:13.169 But when you're talking there, that just 00:47:13.169 --> 00:47:14.220 kind of came to mind. 00:47:15.105 --> 00:47:18.015 You mentioned something about brain development 00:47:18.255 --> 00:47:21.645 and being about 25 when the brain starts 00:47:21.645 --> 00:47:24.945 fully coagulating and solidifying and 00:47:24.975 --> 00:47:27.645 into something and you talked about the 00:47:27.645 --> 00:47:29.205 brain being stuck. 00:47:29.715 --> 00:47:32.475 And from some of the reading and research 00:47:32.505 --> 00:47:35.115 I've done, people are talking about neural 00:47:35.174 --> 00:47:37.845 plasticity and the fact that the brain 00:47:37.845 --> 00:47:42.045 can basically create new neural pathways and 00:47:42.045 --> 00:47:44.115 it's something that's being used for PTSD. 00:47:44.174 --> 00:47:47.895 And I guess when we talk about being able to 00:47:47.895 --> 00:47:50.174 take an x-ray and there it is, you can see the 00:47:50.415 --> 00:47:53.505 broken bone, but it's not as self-evident in 00:47:54.240 --> 00:47:56.149 a mental health injury. 00:47:57.060 --> 00:48:00.420 They're finding that essentially three main 00:48:00.420 --> 00:48:02.910 parts of the brain are being affected the 00:48:02.910 --> 00:48:05.400 amygdala where your emotions are affected 00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:07.470 your hippocampus or your memory is. 00:48:07.470 --> 00:48:10.080 And your prefrontal cortex or planning, 00:48:10.080 --> 00:48:12.060 cognitive functions, short-term memory, all 00:48:12.060 --> 00:48:14.310 of these sorts of things kind of take place. 00:48:15.310 --> 00:48:20.280 I think looking at that and knowing a little 00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:22.260 bit about some of the new techniques that 00:48:22.260 --> 00:48:24.750 people are dealing with, do you think 00:48:24.750 --> 00:48:28.140 that really a person's brain is stuck at 25? 00:48:28.140 --> 00:48:29.940 Let's say they've got the PTSD and greened 00:48:29.940 --> 00:48:30.690 them at that point. 00:48:30.780 --> 00:48:32.850 Are they stuck or do you think they're able to 00:48:32.850 --> 00:48:38.190 find proper function and enjoy through, whether 00:48:38.190 --> 00:48:42.150 it's sort of a cognitive based therapy or some 00:48:42.150 --> 00:48:46.170 sort of a mixture of medications and different 00:48:46.170 --> 00:48:47.520 types of talk therapy? 00:48:48.930 --> 00:48:50.370 Or do you think it's just something that that's 00:48:50.370 --> 00:48:52.140 going to be cemented in? 00:48:53.895 --> 00:48:57.735 Well, I think, I mean the trauma piece is 00:48:58.095 --> 00:49:00.645 cemented in, or the hypervigilance piece is 00:49:00.645 --> 00:49:03.625 probably cemented in. 00:49:03.945 --> 00:49:04.145 Okay. 00:49:04.605 --> 00:49:08.115 And there's a part of it that where, the day I 00:49:08.115 --> 00:49:11.035 broke my collarbone was like the best day ever. 00:49:11.715 --> 00:49:14.475 And so for those of us, who've been like 00:49:14.475 --> 00:49:16.665 trained to deal with the emergency situation, 00:49:16.675 --> 00:49:20.085 so a lot of us, like we don't, our PTSD doesn't 00:49:20.085 --> 00:49:23.935 prevent us from handling an emergency situation. 00:49:23.935 --> 00:49:27.465 Like an active shooter or dealing with a 00:49:27.465 --> 00:49:29.055 medical emergency or that kind of stuff. 00:49:29.055 --> 00:49:29.234 Sure. 00:49:29.234 --> 00:49:30.265 Actually, it actually drives. 00:49:30.265 --> 00:49:30.715 You thrive. 00:49:30.745 --> 00:49:31.335 The opposite. 00:49:31.335 --> 00:49:31.885 We thrive. 00:49:31.885 --> 00:49:32.055 Cause. 00:49:32.055 --> 00:49:32.865 That's the best. 00:49:33.065 --> 00:49:34.745 Your outside matches your inside. 00:49:34.745 --> 00:49:35.945 What's happening outside matches what's 00:49:35.945 --> 00:49:36.795 going on in your head. 00:49:36.795 --> 00:49:37.105 Right. 00:49:37.235 --> 00:49:39.995 So that's the best drug piece ever. 00:49:39.995 --> 00:49:40.295 Right. 00:49:41.015 --> 00:49:41.935 The problem is, is that. 00:49:42.254 --> 00:49:45.334 You can't live that way right. 00:49:45.334 --> 00:49:46.865 Even though your brain loves that you 00:49:46.865 --> 00:49:47.615 can't live that way. 00:49:47.615 --> 00:49:49.745 So I'll try and answer this as best as I 00:49:49.745 --> 00:49:51.214 can and succinctly. 00:49:51.694 --> 00:49:55.085 So for me, one of the things I think 00:49:56.024 --> 00:50:01.775 anybody with PTSD, if they're in a position 00:50:01.775 --> 00:50:05.045 where they're willing to get better, can. 00:50:05.615 --> 00:50:08.310 I'll speak from my own personal perspective. 00:50:08.310 --> 00:50:11.370 So for me, we looked at it from a 00:50:11.370 --> 00:50:13.200 holistic standpoint. 00:50:13.230 --> 00:50:18.760 So yes, I had talk therapy, I did EMDR. 00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:19.250 Right. 00:50:19.270 --> 00:50:21.700 Was the therapy that worked for me, not 00:50:21.700 --> 00:50:23.490 the light bar, but my therapist using 00:50:23.490 --> 00:50:24.300 his hand up and down. 00:50:24.330 --> 00:50:25.320 The finger back and forth and. 00:50:25.320 --> 00:50:25.380 Yeah. 00:50:25.400 --> 00:50:29.930 And just for the listeners who are, might 00:50:29.930 --> 00:50:32.400 not be familiar with it, that's, you can do 00:50:32.420 --> 00:50:35.840 tapping, you can do an eye light bar going back 00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:38.700 and forth, tracking a finger, but essentially 00:50:38.720 --> 00:50:41.120 it's taking from the hippocampus a long-term 00:50:41.120 --> 00:50:44.464 memory and you're recalling it as a short 00:50:44.464 --> 00:50:48.274 term memory, and you're essentially fuzzing it 00:50:48.274 --> 00:50:51.694 out by looking back and forth really quickly or 00:50:51.694 --> 00:50:52.785 tapping really quickly. 00:50:52.785 --> 00:50:55.205 And that would be an accurate 00:50:55.354 --> 00:50:56.154 description right? 00:50:56.904 --> 00:50:58.484 You're taking the emotional impact 00:50:58.484 --> 00:51:00.265 out of the memory. 00:51:00.814 --> 00:51:01.084 Yep. 00:51:01.620 --> 00:51:01.860 Okay. 00:51:01.860 --> 00:51:05.740 And then, so we're talking about, 00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:06.960 we've got the talk therapy in there. 00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:10.000 We've got the EMDR, drug therapy. 00:51:10.950 --> 00:51:13.890 So finding the right, so I'm on three 00:51:13.890 --> 00:51:15.540 different meds, the rest of my life. 00:51:15.570 --> 00:51:18.720 And for some guys, the meds aren't their 00:51:18.720 --> 00:51:20.400 thing and they find other things, but I'm 00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:22.290 just talking about my own personal. 00:51:22.950 --> 00:51:25.420 So I felt, physical fitness. 00:51:25.950 --> 00:51:26.260 Right. 00:51:26.260 --> 00:51:27.470 Staying active. 00:51:27.650 --> 00:51:27.970 Right. 00:51:27.990 --> 00:51:31.500 And because I mean, our brains, my brain got 00:51:31.500 --> 00:51:34.260 injured in Kosovo because I was sleep deprived. 00:51:34.260 --> 00:51:38.610 So actually I have permanent insomnia as a 00:51:38.610 --> 00:51:40.110 consequence to my PTSD. 00:51:40.110 --> 00:51:42.960 So I actually wake up every day, more 00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:46.400 tired than I was when I fell asleep. 00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:46.490 Geez. 00:51:47.070 --> 00:51:52.720 So for me, morning hunts are really hard. 00:51:52.720 --> 00:51:53.459 No kidding. 00:51:53.970 --> 00:52:00.210 But so yeah, and then a good sleep and a 00:52:00.210 --> 00:52:01.080 good social network. 00:52:01.080 --> 00:52:05.275 So I had no veteran buddies, at all 00:52:05.384 --> 00:52:06.435 when I was going through treatment. 00:52:06.765 --> 00:52:08.334 I had no mentoring at all. 00:52:08.384 --> 00:52:11.025 I knew nobody else at the OSI clinic that 00:52:11.025 --> 00:52:12.765 I was going through, there was no group. 00:52:12.795 --> 00:52:18.765 It was me, my wife, my parents, our 00:52:18.765 --> 00:52:23.055 church, that was kinda my social network. 00:52:23.145 --> 00:52:23.445 Right. 00:52:23.505 --> 00:52:23.805 Yeah. 00:52:23.835 --> 00:52:25.855 So that was kind of like, those multiple 00:52:25.875 --> 00:52:28.485 factors and you have to, it's something 00:52:28.495 --> 00:52:30.015 you have to work at. 00:52:30.265 --> 00:52:32.580 Yeah, it's like, you can't go to the gym 00:52:32.580 --> 00:52:34.200 and try and work out with a trainer and 00:52:34.200 --> 00:52:36.480 expect to be fit if you don't put the reps in. 00:52:37.010 --> 00:52:37.430 Right. 00:52:37.490 --> 00:52:41.480 And there are some guys out there that 00:52:41.580 --> 00:52:45.560 are stuck in a rut with their PTSD because 00:52:45.560 --> 00:52:49.330 they just can't get the tire out of the hole. 00:52:49.380 --> 00:52:49.650 Right. 00:52:49.650 --> 00:52:53.420 And I feel for those guys and one of the things 00:52:53.420 --> 00:52:56.120 that the Veteran Hunters is really helping guys 00:52:56.120 --> 00:52:57.440 overcome that anxiety. 00:52:57.734 --> 00:53:00.645 Because that indicted piece really can rob you 00:53:00.944 --> 00:53:03.634 of having a very fruitful and productive life. 00:53:03.875 --> 00:53:09.015 I'm 48 years old and I got a lot more 00:53:09.015 --> 00:53:11.865 years to go and I love hunting with guys. 00:53:11.865 --> 00:53:13.964 Most of the guys that I, that I take out hunting 00:53:14.205 --> 00:53:16.995 are 10 to 15 years younger than me and this 00:53:16.995 --> 00:53:19.950 old guy is just pounding them into the dirt. 00:53:19.980 --> 00:53:20.879 So that's awesome. 00:53:21.390 --> 00:53:24.720 So I can still ruck with the rest with 00:53:24.720 --> 00:53:25.290 the best of them. 00:53:25.290 --> 00:53:25.779 That's awesome. 00:53:25.850 --> 00:53:28.430 Well, want to talk about Veteran Hunters, 00:53:28.520 --> 00:53:29.510 how it got started? 00:53:29.960 --> 00:53:30.440 Sure. 00:53:30.470 --> 00:53:32.120 So I started looking around and found in 00:53:32.120 --> 00:53:35.450 Canada, there was no hunting organizations 00:53:35.450 --> 00:53:39.020 that focused on veterans and dealing 00:53:39.020 --> 00:53:40.820 with mental health and that kind of stuff. 00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:43.800 But there were lots of guys in the US. 00:53:43.820 --> 00:53:45.920 In fact I connected with one guy in 00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:49.425 Oregon in particular, 22 outdoors is the 00:53:49.425 --> 00:53:50.445 organization in Oregon. 00:53:50.445 --> 00:53:52.305 And hopefully, big picture, long down the 00:53:52.305 --> 00:53:56.555 road, we're able to do a joint hunt, whether here 00:53:56.555 --> 00:53:57.915 in Alberta or in Montana. 00:53:58.005 --> 00:53:58.875 Well that'd be cool. 00:53:58.875 --> 00:53:59.605 For elk. 00:53:59.625 --> 00:53:59.865 Yeah. 00:53:59.895 --> 00:54:01.545 It's kind of something he and I have talked 00:54:01.545 --> 00:54:03.585 about kind of big picture down the road. 00:54:04.220 --> 00:54:06.980 So just threw the dice, put it out there 00:54:07.370 --> 00:54:09.680 and came up with the term Veteran Hunters. 00:54:09.710 --> 00:54:12.770 So one, I mean, I like kind of using plays 00:54:12.770 --> 00:54:14.540 on playing on words, having kind of worked 00:54:14.540 --> 00:54:16.080 with the media and stuff in the past. 00:54:16.700 --> 00:54:17.060 Yeah. 00:54:17.060 --> 00:54:19.549 We're veterans and we're hunting, but we're also 00:54:19.549 --> 00:54:20.569 hunting for veterans. 00:54:20.750 --> 00:54:23.240 We're trying to find guys to connect with 00:54:23.240 --> 00:54:25.189 and to get into the organization and find out 00:54:25.189 --> 00:54:26.729 about the organization and that kind of stuff. 00:54:26.729 --> 00:54:26.819 Right. 00:54:26.839 --> 00:54:30.109 So there's a little bit of duology there. 00:54:30.584 --> 00:54:33.015 So, started the Veteran Hunter's got the website 00:54:33.015 --> 00:54:36.404 up and running self self-funded for the 00:54:36.404 --> 00:54:40.214 first year, connected with the right guys on 00:54:40.214 --> 00:54:43.575 social media who helped get us some exposure. 00:54:43.904 --> 00:54:47.084 We did a snow goose hunt that first year in 19, 00:54:47.564 --> 00:54:50.234 and then it kind of just snowballed from there. 00:54:50.234 --> 00:54:54.674 And by the end of 2019 we'd facilitated 00:54:54.705 --> 00:54:57.254 activities for over 50 guys. 00:54:58.020 --> 00:55:00.390 We had been talking to sponsors throughout 00:55:00.390 --> 00:55:03.580 the year, in particular Vortex Canada, who 00:55:03.580 --> 00:55:05.220 came on board right away at the beginning 00:55:05.220 --> 00:55:05.700 of this year. 00:55:05.700 --> 00:55:07.950 They've been a great sponsor, Reg Wells, 00:55:07.950 --> 00:55:10.379 one of their field reps, he served in 00:55:10.379 --> 00:55:14.629 Croatia with the RCR, was injured himself. 00:55:14.629 --> 00:55:18.060 So, I mean, so there's some personal things 00:55:18.060 --> 00:55:19.410 there when you look when you're looking 00:55:19.410 --> 00:55:20.250 for sponsors, right? 00:55:20.250 --> 00:55:22.260 So if you've got veterans inside another 00:55:22.260 --> 00:55:25.740 organization that are able to vouch for 00:55:25.740 --> 00:55:27.930 you too, it helps. 00:55:28.530 --> 00:55:30.480 But they've been really generous with 00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:33.750 us this year and there are still people out 00:55:33.750 --> 00:55:36.210 there and I won't name organizations, but there 00:55:36.210 --> 00:55:38.460 are organizations out there that are paid to 00:55:38.460 --> 00:55:42.630 support veterans who market their products 00:55:42.660 --> 00:55:44.425 using the veteran name. 00:55:45.085 --> 00:55:45.435 Okay. 00:55:45.575 --> 00:55:48.685 But do not agree that veterans with PTSD 00:55:48.715 --> 00:55:50.875 should be hunting or using firearms. 00:55:51.025 --> 00:55:51.595 Okay. 00:55:52.314 --> 00:55:52.744 Yes. 00:55:53.004 --> 00:55:53.354 So. 00:55:53.814 --> 00:55:54.504 Interesting. 00:55:54.504 --> 00:55:56.685 I'm running into those challenges. 00:55:56.745 --> 00:55:56.895 Yeah. 00:55:56.895 --> 00:55:57.885 That's gotta be difficult. 00:55:58.665 --> 00:55:58.995 Yeah. 00:55:59.085 --> 00:56:00.455 And you just kinda have to wash your hands 00:56:00.465 --> 00:56:01.935 with that one cause I could see that being 00:56:02.310 --> 00:56:04.110 one of the things that could bring in, what 00:56:04.110 --> 00:56:05.310 was the term you use? 00:56:05.340 --> 00:56:07.020 The passionate frustration. 00:56:07.700 --> 00:56:08.090 Oh yeah. 00:56:08.090 --> 00:56:09.920 I can feel it inside myself, especially when 00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:11.330 you got on the record. 00:56:11.330 --> 00:56:14.360 Like, I did a podcast with a psychologist from 00:56:14.360 --> 00:56:17.090 the operational stress injury clinic saying we 00:56:17.090 --> 00:56:21.020 are doing, what we're doing is exactly what 00:56:21.020 --> 00:56:22.430 some veterans need. 00:56:22.580 --> 00:56:22.730 Right. 00:56:22.730 --> 00:56:23.300 Every veteran. 00:56:23.360 --> 00:56:23.720 Some. 00:56:23.720 --> 00:56:24.650 First responder. 00:56:24.810 --> 00:56:25.100 Yeah. 00:56:25.100 --> 00:56:25.430 I mean. 00:56:25.430 --> 00:56:25.890 Not all. 00:56:27.080 --> 00:56:28.290 We were a gap. 00:56:31.030 --> 00:56:31.460 Right. 00:56:32.340 --> 00:56:34.754 There's two groups doing fishing in Canada 00:56:34.754 --> 00:56:36.345 and we're the only ones doing hunting. 00:56:36.435 --> 00:56:36.645 Right. 00:56:36.645 --> 00:56:38.265 We're the only organization of our kind 00:56:38.654 --> 00:56:40.395 and we're a national organization this year. 00:56:40.904 --> 00:56:45.725 So I have volunteers in BC, I have volunteers in 00:56:46.545 --> 00:56:50.654 New Brunswick and Nova Scotia and Newfoundland 00:56:50.985 --> 00:56:53.174 and I mean, majority of our hunts are here 00:56:53.174 --> 00:56:55.215 in Alberta and we've actually had, we had guys 00:56:55.215 --> 00:56:56.505 fly out from Ontario. 00:56:57.045 --> 00:56:57.315 Wow. 00:56:57.315 --> 00:56:58.564 To hunt elk this year. 00:56:59.015 --> 00:57:02.205 We had a guy last year fly out from Ontario to 00:57:02.205 --> 00:57:05.705 hunt because actually, we found out like, we can 00:57:05.705 --> 00:57:07.904 actually bring veterans here into Alberta for 00:57:07.904 --> 00:57:11.055 really reasonable rate with what we're doing. 00:57:11.085 --> 00:57:11.384 Right. 00:57:11.415 --> 00:57:12.915 So we're not an outfitter, have a great 00:57:12.915 --> 00:57:15.214 relationship with the Outfitters Association, 00:57:15.214 --> 00:57:16.535 but we're a hunter hosts. 00:57:16.845 --> 00:57:20.685 So back to your initial question, so, what we do 00:57:20.685 --> 00:57:23.575 is every year I sit down with the various hunter 00:57:23.575 --> 00:57:26.175 hosts and I'll probably, I'm going to bring on a 00:57:26.175 --> 00:57:27.335 few more guys next year. 00:57:27.845 --> 00:57:31.305 And, we basically we'll sit down for a day, 00:57:31.815 --> 00:57:33.405 probably this year it'll be on a zoom call 00:57:33.405 --> 00:57:36.435 or something like that and we'll hammer out 00:57:36.465 --> 00:57:39.195 kind of the hunting schedules tentatively, 00:57:39.555 --> 00:57:40.995 especially the spring ones, we'll try and 00:57:40.995 --> 00:57:41.865 get them up right away. 00:57:42.225 --> 00:57:45.195 So if a veteran is out there, if actually, 00:57:45.195 --> 00:57:47.895 if you were to Google Veteran Hunter or Veteran 00:57:47.895 --> 00:57:50.415 Hunters, we're probably the number one Google 00:57:50.805 --> 00:57:51.675 search to come up. 00:57:51.675 --> 00:57:52.455 So that makes it easy. 00:57:52.455 --> 00:57:52.635 Yeah. 00:57:52.845 --> 00:57:54.075 You go on there and you'll find you'll 00:57:54.075 --> 00:57:56.205 scroll down and you'll look at our calendar. 00:57:56.820 --> 00:58:00.770 And really, we'll post all of their dates and 00:58:00.770 --> 00:58:03.810 those are the dates that our hunter hosts, put 00:58:03.810 --> 00:58:06.660 up and say, Hey, I'm willing and able to take 00:58:06.660 --> 00:58:10.680 a guy for this period, in this locale, for 00:58:10.680 --> 00:58:11.850 this specific animal. 00:58:11.850 --> 00:58:14.555 And really it's connecting with the 00:58:14.555 --> 00:58:18.365 organization, which would be me ,by email and I 00:58:18.365 --> 00:58:21.515 try and talk to every veteran that connects 00:58:21.515 --> 00:58:22.565 with our organization. 00:58:23.135 --> 00:58:25.985 We've got over 500 now on our Facebook group, 00:58:26.615 --> 00:58:28.595 so if I don't get back to you right away, it's 00:58:28.595 --> 00:58:31.275 nothing personal, it's just, I'm a busy guy. 00:58:32.675 --> 00:58:33.305 Just one man. 00:58:33.305 --> 00:58:33.955 Just one man, yeah. 00:58:33.955 --> 00:58:35.615 So it's just one man and you know what, I'm 00:58:35.615 --> 00:58:39.605 a father with teenagers and I'm married and I've 00:58:39.605 --> 00:58:43.920 got, this is supposed to be a side thing, right? 00:58:43.950 --> 00:58:44.759 Not my full-time. 00:58:44.790 --> 00:58:47.340 So that's the whole work-life balance peice. 00:58:47.490 --> 00:58:50.330 So veteran would pay their own way, come 00:58:50.330 --> 00:58:52.730 on out, be set up with somebody from 00:58:52.759 --> 00:58:54.000 the organization. 00:58:54.339 --> 00:58:54.500 Yep. 00:58:54.500 --> 00:58:57.200 And when you guys go out, they've got the 00:58:57.200 --> 00:58:59.990 opportunity to connect with somebody else who 00:59:00.020 --> 00:59:03.830 may have similar life experiences and maybe 00:59:03.830 --> 00:59:06.319 in a better place than they are, and able to 00:59:06.319 --> 00:59:08.470 help them navigate from where they are now, 00:59:08.470 --> 00:59:10.919 to someplace better. 00:59:10.980 --> 00:59:13.229 Is that essentially the crux? 00:59:13.229 --> 00:59:15.109 Yeah, that's essentially it. 00:59:15.109 --> 00:59:15.339 Yeah. 00:59:15.379 --> 00:59:17.359 Basically you contact us, tell us what you're 00:59:17.359 --> 00:59:20.930 interested for dates, we'll connect to you. 00:59:20.930 --> 00:59:24.105 Get yourself here and we'll take care of it. 00:59:24.105 --> 00:59:25.214 We'll take care of the rest. 00:59:25.214 --> 00:59:26.845 If you need accommodations, we'll 00:59:26.865 --> 00:59:31.194 sort that out for you at a reasonable cost. 00:59:31.194 --> 00:59:33.095 And essentially, they've got a hunting buddy, 00:59:33.125 --> 00:59:35.805 but not just any hunting buddy, somebody who's, 00:59:36.145 --> 00:59:37.835 receptivity helpful. 00:59:37.924 --> 00:59:38.165 Right. 00:59:38.165 --> 00:59:39.825 Who's walked in their shoes. 00:59:39.924 --> 00:59:40.274 Right. 00:59:40.274 --> 00:59:43.924 I use these analogies, I mean, one of the things 00:59:43.924 --> 00:59:46.569 about veterans hunting with veterans or veterans 00:59:46.569 --> 00:59:48.460 hunting with like first responders that kinda 00:59:48.460 --> 00:59:49.839 stuff, there are a lot of first responders are 00:59:49.839 --> 00:59:53.080 veterans themselves, they just transitioned from 00:59:53.080 --> 00:59:55.080 the army into the being a policeman officer or 00:59:55.440 --> 00:59:56.730 paramedic or firefighter. 00:59:57.610 --> 01:00:01.200 It's just, it's similar work, but just different, 01:00:01.650 --> 01:00:02.830 but similar stresses. 01:00:03.439 --> 01:00:06.089 Is, when you're hunting, you wake up in the 01:00:06.089 --> 01:00:08.220 morning and everyone pulls out their Ziploc 01:00:08.220 --> 01:00:09.299 bags with their meds. 01:00:09.540 --> 01:00:11.100 We all kind of laugh and look at each other 01:00:11.100 --> 01:00:13.395 and it's like, there's a level of comfort, right? 01:00:13.665 --> 01:00:14.745 You're not having to explain 01:00:14.745 --> 01:00:17.875 anything, everybody knows you're at. 01:00:17.875 --> 01:00:20.395 We talked about like having irritable bowel. 01:00:20.715 --> 01:00:22.940 Well, when you when I pull over the truck, 01:00:22.950 --> 01:00:24.569 the three other guys in the truck probably have 01:00:24.569 --> 01:00:25.589 to go at the same time. 01:00:25.620 --> 01:00:27.029 So we're all laughing about this. 01:00:27.029 --> 01:00:28.410 So it's funny that you talking about 01:00:28.410 --> 01:00:29.089 being candid. 01:00:29.089 --> 01:00:29.240 Sure. 01:00:29.240 --> 01:00:30.490 Like I'm totally candid. 01:00:30.490 --> 01:00:30.669 Totally. 01:00:30.669 --> 01:00:31.609 Because you know, it is just. 01:00:31.819 --> 01:00:32.520 Is what it is. 01:00:32.580 --> 01:00:34.170 It is what it is, right. 01:00:34.350 --> 01:00:35.560 And so it's awesome. 01:00:35.560 --> 01:00:38.339 And when you're hunting with guys and the guy 01:00:38.339 --> 01:00:40.200 looks at you, or I look at a guy and I 01:00:40.200 --> 01:00:43.964 go, Hey man, no stress, like you let me know 01:00:44.174 --> 01:00:45.884 when you're ready to go, I'm going to grab 01:00:45.884 --> 01:00:46.904 another cup of coffee. 01:00:46.904 --> 01:00:47.475 You want one? 01:00:47.505 --> 01:00:47.714 Yup. 01:00:48.075 --> 01:00:49.575 And when you're ready, we'll go hunt. 01:00:50.145 --> 01:00:54.424 And one of the, a good friend of mine 01:00:54.794 --> 01:00:58.154 and former co-host on my podcast, Bryce, he 01:00:58.154 --> 01:01:00.015 talked, he calls it windshield therapy. 01:01:02.475 --> 01:01:05.325 To and from the hunt you're talking to a guy 01:01:05.325 --> 01:01:08.979 and you're sharing your experiences and we've 01:01:08.979 --> 01:01:11.620 had one of the guys who flew out here last year 01:01:12.100 --> 01:01:15.850 and he got his PTSD from the Swiss air disaster. 01:01:15.850 --> 01:01:17.320 He was in the Navy and having to clean that 01:01:17.320 --> 01:01:18.190 up for three weeks. 01:01:18.430 --> 01:01:20.860 Well, he couldn't fly for 12 years and the 01:01:20.860 --> 01:01:23.560 first time he got on an airplane was to fly out 01:01:23.560 --> 01:01:26.220 here and hunt with us. 01:01:26.500 --> 01:01:26.629 Wow. 01:01:26.629 --> 01:01:28.990 And it actually was, he flew on the anniversary 01:01:28.990 --> 01:01:33.050 of the Swiss air disaster, but for him, 01:01:33.720 --> 01:01:35.685 coming out here to Alberta for the first 01:01:35.685 --> 01:01:37.965 time and pursuing elk with a backpack 01:01:38.654 --> 01:01:41.924 was more important than, he just wanted 01:01:41.924 --> 01:01:42.725 to experience that. 01:01:42.725 --> 01:01:43.295 Good for him. 01:01:43.424 --> 01:01:46.575 And we did a podcast with Damon when he was 01:01:46.575 --> 01:01:48.915 here and then one a couple of weeks later 01:01:48.915 --> 01:01:51.134 when he went home and actually we've stayed 01:01:51.134 --> 01:01:52.775 good friends and I was talking to him yesterday. 01:01:53.815 --> 01:01:56.984 And yeah, the lasting and lingering effect, 01:01:56.984 --> 01:01:59.475 positive effects of coming out and 01:01:59.475 --> 01:02:01.665 participating in the hunt is huge. 01:02:01.995 --> 01:02:05.025 And he was going on, they were doing a family trip 01:02:05.055 --> 01:02:07.125 to Costa Rica and he was starting to get kind of 01:02:07.365 --> 01:02:10.134 the anxiety from flying on another airplane 01:02:10.134 --> 01:02:11.745 and I said, Hey man, go back and listen to your 01:02:11.745 --> 01:02:15.345 podcasts, listen to your own voice, telling you. 01:02:15.374 --> 01:02:15.524 Right. 01:02:15.934 --> 01:02:18.305 How therapeutic it was. 01:02:18.315 --> 01:02:20.384 He was like, Oh yeah, that's what a great idea. 01:02:20.595 --> 01:02:22.145 So that's why I encourage guys, I say, 01:02:22.555 --> 01:02:25.320 check out our website, look at the hunts. 01:02:25.740 --> 01:02:29.340 There's 35 podcasts from last year where we talked 01:02:29.340 --> 01:02:31.240 to countless veterans. 01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:34.590 They talk about their own post-traumatic 01:02:34.590 --> 01:02:37.590 stress story, they talk about where they are 01:02:37.590 --> 01:02:40.410 now and the successes and the segway in. 01:02:40.410 --> 01:02:41.580 And that's one of the things we're going to, 01:02:41.580 --> 01:02:44.940 we've focused on with the Veteran Hunters 01:02:44.940 --> 01:02:46.710 show that's going to Sportsman's channel 01:02:46.710 --> 01:02:50.010 is every episode we're looking at a veteran 01:02:50.010 --> 01:02:51.180 or a first responder. 01:02:51.820 --> 01:02:53.920 They'll talk about their journey, but 01:02:53.920 --> 01:02:55.800 their success today. 01:02:55.830 --> 01:02:58.830 So we've got veterans who have their own 01:02:58.830 --> 01:03:00.629 businesses, they've overcome their 01:03:00.629 --> 01:03:02.460 PTSD and have their own businesses. 01:03:02.490 --> 01:03:02.759 Right. 01:03:02.910 --> 01:03:05.730 Or they're like me and they're running another 01:03:05.730 --> 01:03:09.299 nonprofit organization that's trying to help 01:03:09.569 --> 01:03:10.549 first responders. 01:03:11.180 --> 01:03:13.170 Just to help people, encourage people. 01:03:13.630 --> 01:03:15.900 And then one of the episodes will be about 01:03:15.900 --> 01:03:17.759 me, and it's kind of mine I think, is going to be 01:03:17.759 --> 01:03:18.900 a bit of a compilation. 01:03:18.960 --> 01:03:20.640 It's got to go to the editors still, but 01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:23.180 mine will probably be a compilation showing how, 01:03:25.080 --> 01:03:30.225 for me, it's therapeutic serving the other guys. 01:03:30.225 --> 01:03:30.405 Right. 01:03:30.405 --> 01:03:32.385 Having been a former officer and it's funny 01:03:32.385 --> 01:03:35.535 you liked my tagline on my cell phone. 01:03:35.624 --> 01:03:37.185 I saw that yeah. 01:03:37.185 --> 01:03:39.135 So in order to be a leader, you must 01:03:39.135 --> 01:03:40.005 first be a servant. 01:03:40.065 --> 01:03:40.365 Right. 01:03:40.545 --> 01:03:44.325 And so, and I truly believe that, and it's 01:03:44.325 --> 01:03:46.724 all that kind of from the adage, know your men and 01:03:46.725 --> 01:03:47.685 promote their welfare. 01:03:48.495 --> 01:03:52.845 So I get therapy by running the organization, 01:03:53.295 --> 01:03:56.925 helping out guys and there's countless guys 01:03:56.925 --> 01:04:00.655 who put up testimonials and we try and track 01:04:00.655 --> 01:04:02.385 those as many cause sponsors love to 01:04:02.385 --> 01:04:03.195 see that stuff. 01:04:03.725 --> 01:04:05.595 Just talking about the benefits. 01:04:06.165 --> 01:04:10.905 This year we put activities on for over 01:04:10.905 --> 01:04:14.955 75 guys this year. 01:04:15.015 --> 01:04:17.785 And we'll probably by the end of the hunting 01:04:17.785 --> 01:04:21.675 season, who's still got some special elk 01:04:21.675 --> 01:04:23.415 season's going on here in Alberta, so we'll 01:04:23.415 --> 01:04:26.445 probably have put it on a combined like 190 days 01:04:27.085 --> 01:04:29.654 of hunting this year. 01:04:29.834 --> 01:04:30.455 Wow. 01:04:30.634 --> 01:04:31.214 Yeah and. 01:04:31.584 --> 01:04:32.064 That's impressive. 01:04:32.085 --> 01:04:34.785 That's kind of that's yeah, and that's a 01:04:34.785 --> 01:04:38.205 capacity I think, for where we're at right now. 01:04:38.235 --> 01:04:40.125 So we need to kind of grow the organization 01:04:40.125 --> 01:04:41.415 a little bit more and that's great, you 01:04:41.415 --> 01:04:43.605 know, by bringing on a guy like Jeff, to 01:04:43.605 --> 01:04:45.315 look after they'll do the whole sponsorship 01:04:45.345 --> 01:04:48.075 piece cause that can be a full-time job. 01:04:48.260 --> 01:04:51.290 Looking for organizations to help us with gifts 01:04:51.290 --> 01:04:54.870 in kind or dollars to help the operations. 01:04:55.520 --> 01:04:57.670 Well, is there anything else we should 01:04:57.670 --> 01:04:58.660 be talking about? 01:04:58.660 --> 01:04:59.980 Anything that you think we should be 01:05:00.130 --> 01:05:01.930 getting out there before we start looking 01:05:01.930 --> 01:05:02.680 at wrapping up here? 01:05:03.610 --> 01:05:07.000 I think it's just letting other veterans, first 01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:09.760 responders know, you know what, you're not alone. 01:05:10.600 --> 01:05:14.640 There are over 500 people on our Facebook 01:05:14.640 --> 01:05:18.490 group, there's countless guides and ladies the 01:05:18.490 --> 01:05:21.029 last couple of years that have hunted with 01:05:21.029 --> 01:05:24.000 our organization or that I've spoken with, just 01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:26.430 encouraging you to push through the anxiety. 01:05:26.460 --> 01:05:28.670 Don't let it rob you of your life, both 01:05:29.029 --> 01:05:31.380 physically and mentally. 01:05:31.839 --> 01:05:33.330 You know, don't let the demons win. 01:05:33.600 --> 01:05:35.100 When we were all in training, we would 01:05:35.100 --> 01:05:38.529 push through the demons and finish that ruck 01:05:38.549 --> 01:05:40.529 march, or we would push through the struggles 01:05:40.529 --> 01:05:43.529 overseas or push through anything to, to 01:05:43.529 --> 01:05:44.819 survive and to get home. 01:05:45.089 --> 01:05:47.339 And now that we are at home, continue to 01:05:47.339 --> 01:05:51.029 push and push through the struggles because 01:05:51.060 --> 01:05:53.490 that's what made us who we are as soldiers. 01:05:54.149 --> 01:05:56.370 And don't lose the battle here at home, 01:05:56.790 --> 01:05:58.740 continue to fight, and you're not alone. 01:05:59.069 --> 01:05:59.879 Connects with us. 01:05:59.879 --> 01:06:01.770 You know, we brought on a chaplain this year, 01:06:01.770 --> 01:06:03.839 one of the pastors from our church came on this 01:06:03.839 --> 01:06:04.979 year and he's available. 01:06:05.450 --> 01:06:07.390 You can connect with him through our website 01:06:07.860 --> 01:06:12.120 and if not, they can shoot me an email as 01:06:12.120 --> 01:06:14.790 well, or connect with us through Facebook and we 01:06:14.790 --> 01:06:17.100 can help you with that mental health piece or 01:06:17.100 --> 01:06:18.360 the peer support piece. 01:06:18.720 --> 01:06:21.600 You know, I've talked to every person, every 01:06:21.600 --> 01:06:24.210 veteran that's connected with us and it's been 01:06:24.210 --> 01:06:27.300 good because there's guys I know that I can't put 01:06:27.300 --> 01:06:29.160 together because it'll trigger each other. 01:06:29.970 --> 01:06:31.560 But that's another learning too, is that 01:06:31.740 --> 01:06:33.870 not all veterans can be with each other. 01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:34.330 Right. 01:06:34.330 --> 01:06:36.210 Because of their overseas experiences. 01:06:36.210 --> 01:06:39.180 So that's why I talked to everybody that 01:06:39.180 --> 01:06:40.770 wants to hunt with the organization, just to 01:06:40.770 --> 01:06:41.670 know where they're at. 01:06:41.730 --> 01:06:44.030 And if you want to hunt with this too, we'll, we 01:06:44.030 --> 01:06:48.420 send you, we developed a forum this year that has 01:06:48.430 --> 01:06:50.340 some personal questions, but it just helps us 01:06:50.460 --> 01:06:55.230 better prepare ourselves and you, to hunt with us. 01:06:56.205 --> 01:06:58.875 Todd, thank you very much for being on The 01:06:58.875 --> 01:06:59.984 Silvercore Podcast. 01:06:59.984 --> 01:07:02.384 I'm really impressed with what you've done so far. 01:07:02.384 --> 01:07:05.294 I'm really excited to see where Veteran 01:07:05.294 --> 01:07:07.154 Hunters is going to be going in the future. 01:07:07.575 --> 01:07:10.065 And I'm very happy to be able to assist you 01:07:10.065 --> 01:07:11.715 with your endeavor in any way we can. 01:07:12.665 --> 01:07:12.935 Thank you. 01:07:13.055 --> 01:07:13.955 Thanks Travis, appreciate it.