WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:25.716 --> 00:00:25.906 Hello 00:00:25.916 --> 00:00:26.806 Anke: and welcome, Daphne. 00:00:26.806 --> 00:00:31.576 I'm so excited to have another Leo Mom here. 00:00:31.846 --> 00:00:34.576 Yeah, we'll give that away in a second, what this is all about. 00:00:34.626 --> 00:00:38.196 But before we get there, why don't you share with people where you're from, where 00:00:38.196 --> 00:00:39.796 you're based, and what's your business? 00:00:41.216 --> 00:00:44.816 Daphne: Anke, thank you so much for having me on your wonderful podcast. 00:00:44.816 --> 00:00:45.636 It's a pleasure. 00:00:45.946 --> 00:00:53.776 So, um, I am from Um, Germany as yourself, but I've been living in Spain for the last 00:00:53.786 --> 00:00:57.186 12 years and I'm based now in Barcelona. 00:00:57.376 --> 00:01:02.046 So here is where I do most of my business, but I also work online 00:01:02.046 --> 00:01:03.406 with people all over the globe. 00:01:03.846 --> 00:01:06.626 And, um, yeah, that's my story. 00:01:06.926 --> 00:01:07.336 Anke: Love it. 00:01:07.426 --> 00:01:08.186 Love it. 00:01:08.186 --> 00:01:09.286 It's funny. 00:01:09.286 --> 00:01:11.596 It feels like we've sort of followed each other almost 00:01:11.596 --> 00:01:12.756 around the world a little bit. 00:01:12.776 --> 00:01:12.976 Right. 00:01:13.466 --> 00:01:14.996 So, so. 00:01:14.996 --> 00:01:15.091 Bye. 00:01:15.091 --> 00:01:15.186 Ciao. 00:01:15.446 --> 00:01:18.706 Why don't, why don't you share like, you know, we just have like a, almost like 00:01:18.706 --> 00:01:24.316 a little teary moment when you share how you, how you got into working with dogs. 00:01:25.166 --> 00:01:25.586 Daphne: Right. 00:01:25.586 --> 00:01:30.156 So, um, I, I showed this picture before we hit record. 00:01:30.356 --> 00:01:31.296 I'll show it again. 00:01:31.336 --> 00:01:33.216 So what you see here. 00:01:33.541 --> 00:01:39.721 is Little Daphne with Leo, um, just as the Leo that you rescued years ago. 00:01:40.131 --> 00:01:42.161 That's how I got in touch with dogs. 00:01:42.211 --> 00:01:47.381 It was my grandparent's dog and I just, I was in love with this animal. 00:01:47.421 --> 00:01:51.141 And, um, I received so much love that. 00:01:51.836 --> 00:01:58.066 It was really difficult to comprehend sometimes why Leo was treated a very 00:01:58.096 --> 00:02:03.556 old school way, um, with a lot of punishment, a lot of screaming going on. 00:02:03.556 --> 00:02:08.566 And even as I was so small at that time, I, there was something in me that 00:02:08.566 --> 00:02:10.486 said, it, there has to be another way. 00:02:10.586 --> 00:02:15.226 There just has to be another way to treat these animals that give us so much. 00:02:16.276 --> 00:02:16.636 Yeah. 00:02:16.816 --> 00:02:21.956 Anke: So how did you go about finding that other way? 00:02:21.976 --> 00:02:26.826 Because like, when I look back at, you know, when I first met Maileo, 00:02:26.886 --> 00:02:31.436 it was, you know, oh, here is the, you've got to be the alpha dog, right? 00:02:31.436 --> 00:02:34.556 You've got to be, you know, and you have to walk through the door 00:02:34.556 --> 00:02:39.286 first and you have to tell him who's boss and why, you know, and then 00:02:39.286 --> 00:02:40.696 there was like clicker madness. 00:02:41.056 --> 00:02:43.046 I don't know who goes nuts first with this, right? 00:02:45.396 --> 00:02:47.256 And so it wasn't easy to find. 00:02:47.926 --> 00:02:48.436 that other way. 00:02:48.506 --> 00:02:49.016 How did you do that? 00:02:50.326 --> 00:02:53.486 Daphne: Um, I guess stumbling at first. 00:02:53.566 --> 00:02:59.126 Very innocently, I started fostering when I got to university and I was 00:02:59.136 --> 00:03:04.156 like, hey, we'll just swing this with a couch and, and walk three times a 00:03:04.156 --> 00:03:05.546 day and it's going to be just fine. 00:03:05.926 --> 00:03:06.966 It was not fine. 00:03:07.096 --> 00:03:07.626 Spoiler. 00:03:09.966 --> 00:03:15.411 So then I got started with, um, behavior modification and what that meant, and we 00:03:15.411 --> 00:03:21.131 all know these little Skinner diagrams and reinforcement and positive negative stuff. 00:03:21.541 --> 00:03:26.616 Um, and funnily enough, I don't know if I can name drop here, but I 00:03:26.626 --> 00:03:32.036 started with Martin Ritter, who is a very known trainer over in Germany, 00:03:32.336 --> 00:03:36.706 um, but with time I understood that this was again a balanced method. 00:03:36.996 --> 00:03:40.026 So we're going to treat and be nice up until the point we don't 00:03:40.026 --> 00:03:43.606 know what to do anymore and then we'll scream and punish again. 00:03:43.996 --> 00:03:45.266 So that wasn't the way. 00:03:45.916 --> 00:03:53.906 And, um, it was mind opening to get in touch with trainers in the US with, um, I, 00:03:54.026 --> 00:03:58.726 I formed myself in the UK, um, with other programs here in Spain and in the US. 00:03:59.146 --> 00:04:05.246 And that got me each time a little bit closer to how actually we're living 00:04:05.246 --> 00:04:10.796 with another human being, um, human being, with another living being. 00:04:11.311 --> 00:04:14.901 But almost treatable as a human being, right? 00:04:14.901 --> 00:04:16.551 We want to look at the relationship. 00:04:16.551 --> 00:04:21.801 We don't want to be like, clicking like mad until one loses their ear. 00:04:22.181 --> 00:04:25.691 But we want to see, who am I living with? 00:04:25.881 --> 00:04:28.011 What does this other living being need? 00:04:28.331 --> 00:04:32.281 And how can we create a relationship that we can both enjoy and 00:04:33.666 --> 00:04:34.246 Anke: I love that. 00:04:34.676 --> 00:04:38.986 You know, I, I mean, actually funny, funny you mention Martin Luther. 00:04:38.986 --> 00:04:42.156 My dad is a big fan, you know, and I kind of don't like the guy, 00:04:42.156 --> 00:04:45.846 right, because it is that, you know, it's like I'm nice until I'm not. 00:04:45.846 --> 00:04:52.926 So, and so I think the part that I've seen, you know, with Leo 00:04:52.926 --> 00:04:58.111 and the three that came after him was that, Trust gets broken. 00:04:58.881 --> 00:05:01.031 And then you have to work really hard to recover it. 00:05:01.111 --> 00:05:04.801 I mean, dogs are like, you know, they are like little angels, like they do forgive 00:05:04.811 --> 00:05:07.621 more than, than people often deserve. 00:05:07.971 --> 00:05:13.341 But, but it is like every time you kind of yell at them or every time you You 00:05:13.341 --> 00:05:19.051 know, do something harsh, you know, next time they'll think twice whether 00:05:19.051 --> 00:05:20.271 they'll come when you call, right? 00:05:20.671 --> 00:05:24.781 So now the question I think that people were, you know, especially, you know, 00:05:24.791 --> 00:05:26.481 the pushback you get from that, right? 00:05:26.491 --> 00:05:31.431 It's like, oh, but like, that's all fine if the dog's kind of like, 00:05:31.461 --> 00:05:35.661 but what do you, how do you go with that lovey dovey approach, you 00:05:35.661 --> 00:05:37.366 know, because that's what people do. 00:05:37.576 --> 00:05:43.486 You know, push back on, you know, how do you handle a dog that, you know, is 00:05:43.516 --> 00:05:48.326 anxious and that is reactive and you know, where you normally kind of like 00:05:48.416 --> 00:05:52.296 traditionally, oh, like my grandparents might, yeah, maybe not so much, but like, 00:05:52.546 --> 00:05:56.606 you know, a Martin Luther kind of guy where he dealt with the dog, you know. 00:05:57.646 --> 00:06:03.276 Daphne: So I always take it from a perspective of saying, um, how 00:06:03.276 --> 00:06:08.176 would you treat Your partner, how would you treat your best friend? 00:06:08.296 --> 00:06:13.086 How would you treat your mom who's anxious, nervous, fearful? 00:06:13.386 --> 00:06:18.906 Because all of these behaviors that we label as bad, which also 00:06:19.066 --> 00:06:20.846 there's a shift when we use these. 00:06:21.191 --> 00:06:23.741 Bad words to describe our dog's behaviors. 00:06:24.041 --> 00:06:28.701 That also gets ingrained in us and creates distance, but these 00:06:28.781 --> 00:06:31.791 bad behaviors are only symptoms. 00:06:32.831 --> 00:06:39.041 So if we only cut through the symptom, and if we only want to shut the dog down, 00:06:39.281 --> 00:06:43.921 we're not doing anything about why this Simpton has come up in the first place. 00:06:44.291 --> 00:06:47.811 So you want to dig deeper and ask yourself, why does 00:06:47.811 --> 00:06:50.131 my dog need to act like that? 00:06:50.651 --> 00:06:52.831 What emotion lies underneath? 00:06:53.361 --> 00:06:57.341 And you need really a lot of empathy for that because imagine, 00:06:57.971 --> 00:06:59.391 I hate cockroaches, right? 00:06:59.421 --> 00:07:00.611 Barcelona is full of them. 00:07:00.611 --> 00:07:06.391 When I see one, I run across the street screaming, waving my hand. 00:07:06.956 --> 00:07:12.436 And if my boyfriend then yelled at me and called me stupid or, or, God 00:07:12.436 --> 00:07:16.876 forbid, slapped me in the face, I would not learn anything from that 00:07:16.906 --> 00:07:22.246 but, as you rightfully said, to not trust him anymore when I am fearful. 00:07:22.646 --> 00:07:25.136 So, it's not a lovey dovey approach. 00:07:25.136 --> 00:07:27.096 It's really, it's common sense. 00:07:27.406 --> 00:07:28.686 There's fear on the base. 00:07:28.716 --> 00:07:29.926 This is not a bad dog. 00:07:29.926 --> 00:07:31.036 It's not an aggressive dog. 00:07:31.406 --> 00:07:35.096 It's a dog that needs your empathy and needs you to understand what 00:07:35.276 --> 00:07:38.946 is Where is this behavior coming from and what does the dog need? 00:07:40.181 --> 00:07:41.191 Anke: Yeah, I love that. 00:07:41.521 --> 00:07:43.511 I mean, I have like one Mr. 00:07:43.801 --> 00:07:47.171 Sensitive, you know, and he would, you know, he would be 00:07:48.011 --> 00:07:49.701 when I lived in Granada, right? 00:07:49.701 --> 00:07:52.101 And I lived in the Yad Vashem, like historic part of town or 00:07:52.281 --> 00:07:55.471 like, you know, the, the widest street is like two meters wide. 00:07:55.471 --> 00:07:58.241 It's like noises coming from all angles. 00:07:59.086 --> 00:08:02.406 There's like tourist groups coming, there's mountain bikes chasing them, 00:08:02.406 --> 00:08:06.656 there's cats jumping around, there's like bells coming from who knows where, right? 00:08:06.726 --> 00:08:06.996 Yeah. 00:08:07.126 --> 00:08:11.586 And, and he was kind of like, he'd pull on the leash like a crazy, like a maniac. 00:08:11.586 --> 00:08:13.216 And I, you know, initially I'd get frustrated. 00:08:13.216 --> 00:08:18.926 You know, I look like this idiot here gets dragged along by the dog, you know, until. 00:08:20.161 --> 00:08:28.341 I realized, no, he isn't annoying or whatever, like he has sensory overload. 00:08:29.111 --> 00:08:32.431 He's just really sensitive because we saw that like once when, when 00:08:32.431 --> 00:08:35.361 there was like, I don't know, it was a thunderstorm or like a tiny 00:08:35.721 --> 00:08:38.171 grade two earthquake, 500 miles away. 00:08:38.641 --> 00:08:39.611 And he senses it. 00:08:39.611 --> 00:08:44.361 And I'm like, Oh my God, if he's that sensitive, like that amount of 00:08:45.011 --> 00:08:47.891 sensory input in his face, 24 hours. 00:08:48.566 --> 00:08:53.326 You know, like of course that would be too much and he's on edge all the time so it 00:08:53.326 --> 00:08:58.346 just takes a tiny little bit and he'd be like You know, now where I'm like in the 00:08:58.346 --> 00:09:02.566 middle of nowhere and it's all quiet, this dog is the calmest dog ever, you know, 00:09:02.566 --> 00:09:08.606 and I have not trained him at all, like haven't taught him anything else that, 00:09:08.646 --> 00:09:14.406 you know, like, and he doesn't pull, he doesn't, you know, like, it's just seeing 00:09:14.406 --> 00:09:18.776 it for what it is, you know, and I love that, that you kind of dig in there. 00:09:20.546 --> 00:09:26.076 Daphne: I completely agree and I think that's so thoughtful of you to, to go 00:09:26.076 --> 00:09:31.296 that process because it would be so much easier to just tug the leash 20 00:09:31.296 --> 00:09:36.156 times until the dog says, well, I can't express myself in this way for sure. 00:09:36.196 --> 00:09:40.646 So, but that anxiety would have just gone on. 00:09:40.951 --> 00:09:41.191 Anke: Yeah. 00:09:41.271 --> 00:09:42.721 And it shows up in other ways. 00:09:42.721 --> 00:09:46.901 And I think it's like, you know, it's like a pressure cooker, you know, and I think 00:09:46.901 --> 00:09:48.581 this also depends on what the dog is. 00:09:48.621 --> 00:09:52.401 And I think sometimes you have these dogs that, you know, like 00:09:52.401 --> 00:09:56.311 that are strong willed, like your Terriers or your Pudinkas, like 00:09:56.311 --> 00:09:57.221 they don't take that shape, right? 00:09:57.221 --> 00:09:59.281 They kind of will not back down. 00:09:59.311 --> 00:10:02.331 They will be difficult to last minute. 00:10:02.341 --> 00:10:05.251 Whereas like, I think I've seen people with Golden Retrievers, 00:10:05.711 --> 00:10:09.356 you know, they just kind of get yelled at twice and they, Right. 00:10:09.646 --> 00:10:11.496 You know, they just kind of back down. 00:10:11.986 --> 00:10:15.796 And if you have dogs that are more strong willed who won't back down, 00:10:15.816 --> 00:10:20.296 like, well, you either learn or you're 00:10:21.111 --> 00:10:26.371 Daphne: And then we're back to this labeling of good dog, bad dog. 00:10:26.611 --> 00:10:29.351 Um, I get that a lot with my clients at some point. 00:10:29.351 --> 00:10:33.511 They're like, Oh, but you know, our neighbor has the same kind of 00:10:33.511 --> 00:10:35.581 dog and they're such a good dog. 00:10:35.591 --> 00:10:37.821 I'm like, Oh, careful there. 00:10:38.111 --> 00:10:43.031 Because what looks like a good dog to us can very well be a shut down dog. 00:10:43.501 --> 00:10:44.901 Because if you break. 00:10:45.346 --> 00:10:50.366 An individual's mind so much, if you're so harsh and unforgiving and 00:10:50.496 --> 00:10:52.926 unjust to them, they just give up. 00:10:53.326 --> 00:10:54.976 This is called learned helplessness. 00:10:54.996 --> 00:10:57.276 It, it happens with humans as well. 00:10:57.676 --> 00:11:01.426 Um, and then you just go like, you know what, I'm not 00:11:01.426 --> 00:11:02.836 going to do anything anymore. 00:11:03.456 --> 00:11:07.796 And that to us looks like a good dog, but I always say I prefer 00:11:07.806 --> 00:11:09.776 a happy dog than a good dog. 00:11:10.416 --> 00:11:10.956 Always. 00:11:11.956 --> 00:11:12.296 Anke: Totally. 00:11:12.386 --> 00:11:13.006 Totally. 00:11:14.646 --> 00:11:16.366 So how do people work with you? 00:11:16.366 --> 00:11:19.226 You said you work, you know, you work obviously locally, 00:11:19.226 --> 00:11:21.176 but also, you know, virtually. 00:11:21.206 --> 00:11:22.146 So how does that work? 00:11:22.146 --> 00:11:24.316 Well, how do people come to you and then how 00:11:24.676 --> 00:11:24.996 Daphne: does that work? 00:11:26.086 --> 00:11:26.376 Right. 00:11:26.376 --> 00:11:27.946 So, um, I do both. 00:11:28.256 --> 00:11:33.596 Most of my business is here in Barcelona, but I do work online even 00:11:33.596 --> 00:11:38.516 with people in Barcelona because, um, there are some behaviors that are best 00:11:38.526 --> 00:11:44.576 worked when I'm not another factor that is bothering in the situation. 00:11:44.956 --> 00:11:49.506 So many people don't know that, but online training is amazing for a lot of dogs 00:11:49.666 --> 00:11:51.326 because you don't get in their space. 00:11:51.326 --> 00:11:53.706 You don't, you know, change the picture. 00:11:54.096 --> 00:12:00.286 Um, People can find me on Google Maps if they type in DOC training 00:12:00.286 --> 00:12:04.246 Barcelona or Saving Slippers, which is my brand Barcelona. 00:12:04.896 --> 00:12:10.286 And um, I have a website, savings slippers.com, and I'm 00:12:10.286 --> 00:12:12.176 on Instagram with the same name. 00:12:12.176 --> 00:12:14.696 So at Savings slippers, you'll find me. 00:12:15.236 --> 00:12:19.036 I do some reels, I give some tips, people can reach out to me. 00:12:19.646 --> 00:12:20.536 Anke: Very cool, very cool. 00:12:20.536 --> 00:12:22.426 What's, what's the story behind the name? 00:12:24.656 --> 00:12:29.196 Daphne: So, uh, I work a lot with, with puppies, um, each time a little 00:12:29.196 --> 00:12:34.306 bit more, which is gorgeous because then I can intervene at the beginning. 00:12:34.306 --> 00:12:39.376 I set the people and the dog up for success and that's just, that's Amazing. 00:12:39.626 --> 00:12:41.316 I get emotional about it every time. 00:12:41.856 --> 00:12:47.756 Um, so I thought about the name Long and couldn't find anything and it was 00:12:47.756 --> 00:12:49.536 again my partner who helped there. 00:12:49.536 --> 00:12:51.576 He has a marketing background, bless him. 00:12:52.456 --> 00:12:57.506 And, um, we thought about what's a big problem that people have with dogs 00:12:57.506 --> 00:13:01.806 and especially puppies steal slippers because when they're teething they 00:13:01.806 --> 00:13:03.756 need textures that are interesting. 00:13:03.766 --> 00:13:05.746 They need to get this mouth going. 00:13:06.346 --> 00:13:12.826 So slippers are A well known victim of dogs and I'm the one saving your slippers. 00:13:12.826 --> 00:13:15.226 It 00:13:15.226 --> 00:13:19.726 Anke: makes me laugh because like Leo was like, like, Oh, he was super efficient. 00:13:20.146 --> 00:13:24.976 You know, like he taught me to never, ever leave shoes anywhere or socks. 00:13:26.016 --> 00:13:26.416 Right. 00:13:28.036 --> 00:13:28.826 So yeah, totally. 00:13:28.826 --> 00:13:31.416 I had lots of slippers who needed saving from him for sure. 00:13:32.046 --> 00:13:32.606 Yes. 00:13:33.836 --> 00:13:34.436 Oh, thank you. 00:13:34.456 --> 00:13:35.386 Thank you so much. 00:13:35.446 --> 00:13:38.856 And I think I'm just like always delighted to. 00:13:39.201 --> 00:13:43.961 meet people who do work in that space and to help change that narrative, you know, 00:13:43.971 --> 00:13:48.721 because I think these dogs do deserve all the love and all the respect that, 00:13:48.901 --> 00:13:50.811 that, you know, that we can give them. 00:13:51.181 --> 00:13:52.801 And so many don't, don't have yet. 00:13:52.971 --> 00:13:53.531 Daphne: So thank you. 00:13:53.561 --> 00:13:54.631 That is so true. 00:13:54.711 --> 00:13:56.201 Thank you for the work you're doing. 00:13:56.201 --> 00:14:00.581 Thank you for putting a platform out there where people can educate themselves 00:14:00.621 --> 00:14:02.981 and connect with other stories. 00:14:03.331 --> 00:14:06.571 And hopefully I could contribute to that today. 00:14:06.886 --> 00:14:07.546 You're so good. 00:14:07.746 --> 00:14:07.856 Thank you. 00:14:09.219 --> 00:14:10.449 Thanks so much for listening. 00:14:10.969 --> 00:14:15.269 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:14:15.369 --> 00:14:17.149 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:14:17.939 --> 00:14:21.429 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:14:21.859 --> 00:14:27.429 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:14:27.529 --> 00:14:29.899 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:14:29.899 --> 00:14:33.629 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:14:34.049 --> 00:14:35.189 I'd love an introduction. 00:14:35.669 --> 00:14:37.499 Email me at Anke. 00:14:37.769 --> 00:14:42.004 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.