WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:07.047 --> 00:00:09.727 Candace Dellacona: Welcome to the Sandwich Generation Survival Guide. 00:00:09.727 --> 00:00:14.687 I am your host, Candace Dellacona, and I am so excited to announce our 00:00:14.687 --> 00:00:17.377 guests today, Kass and Mike Lazerow. 00:00:17.867 --> 00:00:18.587 Welcome, guys. 00:00:19.347 --> 00:00:20.257 Kass Lazerow: Thanks for having us. 00:00:20.257 --> 00:00:21.297 Mike Lazerow: Thanks for having us. 00:00:21.317 --> 00:00:25.427 Candace Dellacona: We're here to talk today about your book that 00:00:25.457 --> 00:00:29.597 is available for pre order called Shoveling Shit, A Love Story. 00:00:29.917 --> 00:00:35.707 But let's first talk, Kass and Mike, about who you are and what your origin story is. 00:00:36.047 --> 00:00:36.407 Kass Lazerow: All right. 00:00:36.407 --> 00:00:43.997 Well, I am half of the Lazerow duo, Kass, and origin story is I've always been 00:00:43.997 --> 00:00:47.207 entrepreneurial since a very young age. 00:00:47.337 --> 00:00:52.557 I think the last person that I had lunch with outside of work was an elementary 00:00:52.587 --> 00:00:56.107 school friend who told me, she goes, remember when you used to sell barrettes 00:00:56.887 --> 00:01:00.827 at school and you made so much money and I hadn't even thought of that, so 00:01:01.257 --> 00:01:03.517 entrepreneurial from the beginning. 00:01:03.942 --> 00:01:07.862 And a competitor, I would say at heart, having played a lot of sports 00:01:07.882 --> 00:01:11.582 my whole life, and then a person who really likes to give back. 00:01:12.157 --> 00:01:12.557 Candace Dellacona: Yeah. 00:01:12.833 --> 00:01:13.353 And Mike? 00:01:13.803 --> 00:01:16.903 Mike Lazerow: Yeah Kass and I grew up probably 10 miles from each other. 00:01:17.493 --> 00:01:21.343 Don't want to tell the dirty little secret, she's a little older than I am. 00:01:21.383 --> 00:01:22.813 She was friends with my older brother. 00:01:23.403 --> 00:01:24.953 It's just a chronological fact. 00:01:24.953 --> 00:01:26.003 It's not an opinion. 00:01:26.023 --> 00:01:27.273 We have nothing to do with it. 00:01:27.883 --> 00:01:33.043 And we reconnected at a wedding of a mutual friend. 00:01:33.698 --> 00:01:36.838 And just hit it off over really early internet stuff. 00:01:36.838 --> 00:01:40.478 So I was running a business at the time in web 1. 00:01:40.478 --> 00:01:41.408 0. 00:01:41.408 --> 00:01:45.378 She was very entrepreneurial, helping, the largest law firms in 00:01:45.378 --> 00:01:47.278 the world build their first websites. 00:01:48.198 --> 00:01:51.348 And so we connected over ideas and innovation and, 00:01:51.368 --> 00:01:52.518 the future of the internet. 00:01:53.008 --> 00:01:57.733 And Kass had come from an entrepreneurial family that no one 00:01:57.733 --> 00:01:59.633 really worked for other people. 00:01:59.653 --> 00:02:04.393 My dad was a builder and owned a home inspection business. 00:02:04.423 --> 00:02:09.623 My stepfather, who I actually grew up with parents got divorced at six years old. 00:02:09.623 --> 00:02:13.913 And then I grew up with my mom and stepfather living with them. 00:02:13.913 --> 00:02:16.123 At least he had a money management firm. 00:02:16.788 --> 00:02:20.488 And my grandfather built apartments, low income housing 00:02:20.488 --> 00:02:22.508 in Baltimore his whole life. 00:02:23.348 --> 00:02:29.038 And so I just had, a bunch of role models who this is what they did. 00:02:29.038 --> 00:02:32.308 They did their own thing, which, I think, pushed me into 00:02:32.308 --> 00:02:33.788 that path of entrepreneurship. 00:02:34.543 --> 00:02:37.753 Candace Dellacona: For our listeners, Mike and Kass were the 00:02:37.753 --> 00:02:40.313 founders of BuddyMedia and Golf. 00:02:40.473 --> 00:02:41.083 com. 00:02:41.093 --> 00:02:46.683 So, you have some pretty significant successes under your belt, but one of 00:02:46.683 --> 00:02:51.303 the things I loved so much about your book, Shoveling Shit, A Love Story, was 00:02:51.313 --> 00:02:55.773 you really got into the nitty gritty of being a founder and the process 00:02:55.773 --> 00:02:58.798 in which founders find themselves. 00:02:58.808 --> 00:02:59.878 The good and the bad. 00:02:59.888 --> 00:03:04.668 So why don't you tell us a little bit about what brought you to write a book 00:03:04.668 --> 00:03:06.568 like this and why you saw the need? 00:03:06.903 --> 00:03:10.873 Kass Lazerow: So for the last, I would say 12 or 13 years since selling Buddy 00:03:10.873 --> 00:03:15.643 Media, we have been investors, and we've been doing that out of our own 00:03:15.753 --> 00:03:21.463 pocket, off our own balance sheet, and then we started in 2019 a venture firm. 00:03:21.893 --> 00:03:24.773 And so we've been investors, and we love entrepreneurs. 00:03:25.243 --> 00:03:30.573 And we also spend a lot of our time giving back to the entrepreneurial community 00:03:30.933 --> 00:03:36.223 by taking calls, helping out, we get lots of can you talk to this person? 00:03:36.223 --> 00:03:36.903 Can you help them? 00:03:36.903 --> 00:03:38.253 What do you think about this idea? 00:03:38.683 --> 00:03:44.203 And I'd always wanted to somehow get the message out in a more 00:03:44.563 --> 00:03:46.133 exponential way, if you will. 00:03:46.413 --> 00:03:48.263 And we had thought about doing a podcast. 00:03:48.543 --> 00:03:51.123 And then I said, Mike, I have all these lessons. 00:03:51.183 --> 00:03:52.243 I've kept them all. 00:03:52.623 --> 00:03:53.723 Let's write a book. 00:03:54.283 --> 00:04:00.353 Mike was a little hesitant and I scaffold it all out and he's like, holy crap, you 00:04:00.353 --> 00:04:03.063 actually did keep all of these, lessons. 00:04:03.163 --> 00:04:05.383 And then it took three months and we did it. 00:04:05.753 --> 00:04:07.023 Takes a year to publish it. 00:04:07.033 --> 00:04:11.463 I don't know why that's the case, but our goal is to get it out 00:04:11.473 --> 00:04:14.783 to as many entrepreneurs as we can, just so that we can help. 00:04:16.198 --> 00:04:16.808 Candace Dellacona: Yeah, I love that. 00:04:16.828 --> 00:04:19.358 And one of the big themes and one of the things I loved about the 00:04:19.358 --> 00:04:22.948 book, and maybe Mike, you can talk about this is the two voices, right? 00:04:22.948 --> 00:04:26.958 Where, the reader goes through Kass's perspective and Mike's perspective. 00:04:26.988 --> 00:04:30.193 And I think that's a really interesting perspective. 00:04:30.403 --> 00:04:30.623 Mike Lazerow: Yeah. 00:04:30.623 --> 00:04:34.353 One of the hardest parts about writing this book is we did it together. 00:04:34.363 --> 00:04:37.733 And although we've worked together for over 25 years, we've been 00:04:37.733 --> 00:04:40.773 married for 25 years, but started a company while we were just dating, 00:04:41.773 --> 00:04:42.943 we really do different things. 00:04:42.953 --> 00:04:44.063 She's more of the operator. 00:04:44.063 --> 00:04:49.573 I'm more of the kind of salesperson, visionary, capital markets, fundraising 00:04:50.063 --> 00:04:53.883 biz dev stuff that doesn't matter as much as like, how do you run these companies? 00:04:54.433 --> 00:04:57.583 And so when we wrote the book, we were in it together. 00:04:57.603 --> 00:04:59.563 It was a creative exercise. 00:05:00.163 --> 00:05:03.903 That we had to create and agree on stuff. 00:05:03.903 --> 00:05:08.633 So, a little friction at the beginning, we did get into the flow, but the hardest 00:05:08.633 --> 00:05:15.673 thing to figure out was the voice, because although many people know us together, 00:05:15.673 --> 00:05:22.068 including our investors and employees and, everyone in our life, we are two different 00:05:22.108 --> 00:05:27.198 people, obviously, and we have our own perspective and there's certain stories, 00:05:27.198 --> 00:05:29.288 which I was a part of, which she wasn't. 00:05:29.298 --> 00:05:31.788 So you can't write it in we, right? 00:05:31.788 --> 00:05:33.028 Like we didn't do this. 00:05:33.028 --> 00:05:36.218 If it was just me at our office in Singapore, after we'd opened 00:05:36.218 --> 00:05:40.688 it, telling a story or at South by Southwest, trying to sell our products. 00:05:41.358 --> 00:05:44.908 And so we landed on just being really clear with the reader. 00:05:44.958 --> 00:05:46.178 There are three voices. 00:05:46.178 --> 00:05:51.523 There's we, there's me, and there is she, Kass. 00:05:51.743 --> 00:05:56.803 So Kass had her, me and the, he and the, we, and so we just kept it 00:05:56.833 --> 00:06:02.463 conversational and tried to do it as if we were sitting around talking to 00:06:02.463 --> 00:06:05.173 someone and not overcomplicate it. 00:06:05.223 --> 00:06:09.403 And I think we landed at a spot where, although at the beginning 00:06:10.103 --> 00:06:15.903 you may have to focus a little on who is this talking, it very quickly 00:06:15.903 --> 00:06:17.993 becomes something that is natural. 00:06:19.048 --> 00:06:19.818 Candace Dellacona: Yeah, I totally agree. 00:06:19.818 --> 00:06:22.078 The theme of partnership is throughout the book. 00:06:22.548 --> 00:06:24.968 In fact, I think you even have a chapter called Picking Your Partner. 00:06:25.218 --> 00:06:28.698 Maybe talk to us about why picking your partner is so important 00:06:28.718 --> 00:06:31.558 and best way to go about that. 00:06:32.386 --> 00:06:35.646 Kass Lazerow: Picking a partner is like picking a spouse. 00:06:35.946 --> 00:06:38.986 That's what we basically say is the analogy. 00:06:39.106 --> 00:06:43.926 You are going to wake up every morning and text this person, right? 00:06:43.946 --> 00:06:46.606 When you're running a company, you're going to go to bed texting them. 00:06:47.056 --> 00:06:50.556 And it's going to be a very close relationship. 00:06:51.076 --> 00:06:55.936 So you've got to make sure that you have picked someone who has the same 00:06:55.946 --> 00:07:01.696 mission, values, work ethic, and you know the different responsibilities 00:07:01.726 --> 00:07:06.436 each of you is going to take, especially for co founders and you 00:07:06.436 --> 00:07:08.486 have more than one other co founder. 00:07:08.786 --> 00:07:10.686 And it's a big deal. 00:07:11.036 --> 00:07:14.666 And what we have found is the co founder relationships that 00:07:14.666 --> 00:07:17.456 work have different expertise. 00:07:17.806 --> 00:07:20.216 So you're not overlapping in skill sets. 00:07:20.476 --> 00:07:24.996 And when we have seen companies where the two founders are both 00:07:24.996 --> 00:07:29.066 doing product or both engineers it just doesn't work as well. 00:07:29.076 --> 00:07:33.666 There's a lot of micromanaging, there's a lot of paralysis by 00:07:33.666 --> 00:07:36.266 analysis, and it just doesn't work. 00:07:36.626 --> 00:07:39.136 It's very, very important that you pick the right partner, 00:07:40.420 --> 00:07:41.470 Mike, what would you say? 00:07:41.529 --> 00:07:42.749 Mike Lazerow: I agree a hundred percent. 00:07:42.749 --> 00:07:47.049 We as investors, we didn't really think that much about this as entrepreneurs 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:50.989 because it never crossed our mind really to start other businesses with 00:07:50.989 --> 00:07:55.089 someone else until I did and kind of failed miserably with one attempt. 00:07:55.709 --> 00:08:02.809 But as investors, we see the dynamic of co founders getting in their own way. 00:08:03.219 --> 00:08:06.719 And so most of the time, it's not competition. 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:08.139 It's not the market. 00:08:08.599 --> 00:08:10.389 It's not inability to find talent. 00:08:11.229 --> 00:08:17.289 It's internal struggle between founders, not being able to make decisions, not 00:08:17.289 --> 00:08:21.209 being on the same page, that's what gets in the way, usually, especially 00:08:21.209 --> 00:08:23.819 early on for most startup companies. 00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:29.139 We didn't feel like we could write this book without really outlining what we 00:08:29.149 --> 00:08:34.069 think some of the best strategies are for agreeing to move forward with someone. 00:08:34.779 --> 00:08:36.849 What are the conversations you need to have? 00:08:37.704 --> 00:08:42.104 How should the skill set be different, so what is your lane? 00:08:42.114 --> 00:08:48.589 What is her lane or his lane and we wrote this, Shoveling Shit, A Love 00:08:48.589 --> 00:08:49.909 Story is not just our love story. 00:08:49.909 --> 00:08:52.999 It's a love story between entrepreneurs and the hard work 00:08:52.999 --> 00:08:57.259 and grit and the shoveling of shit that goes into these businesses. 00:08:57.569 --> 00:09:01.699 It's the misery of starting a business and working for yourself 00:09:01.769 --> 00:09:03.409 and the beauty that's in that. 00:09:04.119 --> 00:09:09.465 And it's this idea that it's the hardest thing you can do and 00:09:10.225 --> 00:09:11.595 it's the best thing you can do. 00:09:11.675 --> 00:09:13.545 So it's both miserable and awesome. 00:09:13.585 --> 00:09:18.225 And holding those two ideas is important if you're an entrepreneur 00:09:18.375 --> 00:09:23.595 because the alternative is you could be unemployed or working for. 00:09:23.880 --> 00:09:25.700 Someone who's just telling you what to do. 00:09:26.660 --> 00:09:31.090 And so it's in this struggles where you find the purpose in 00:09:31.090 --> 00:09:34.510 your life as an entrepreneur, you could find it many other ways. 00:09:34.510 --> 00:09:38.040 I'm not saying it's the only way, but from a work perspective, it's a 00:09:38.040 --> 00:09:41.840 really good way to find your purpose, to be fired up every day, even though 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:42.950 you know, you're going to show up. 00:09:43.220 --> 00:09:45.950 To work and just have to shovel shit all day. 00:09:46.410 --> 00:09:50.540 I was just talking this morning to a former buddy, we call, buddy 00:09:50.540 --> 00:09:56.220 media employee, who went on to start an incredible brand in the 00:09:56.220 --> 00:09:58.590 liquor space, bourbon company. 00:09:59.280 --> 00:10:05.740 And he read the book and it was just like, it was my book because I always say 00:10:05.810 --> 00:10:07.750 I show up and I'm just shoveling shit. 00:10:07.820 --> 00:10:08.180 Right? 00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:12.460 And so if you're just showing up to work and you're just mailing it 00:10:12.460 --> 00:10:15.580 in, you may not recognize it, but you're running your business, right? 00:10:15.610 --> 00:10:19.220 Like we've worked together and you are running a business. 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:22.520 You have clients, have to deliver. 00:10:23.110 --> 00:10:26.410 Like it's not just these entrepreneurs who start, but it's, 5. 00:10:26.410 --> 00:10:30.820 5 million people who started businesses last year, they look more like, 00:10:31.380 --> 00:10:36.970 restaurants, service companies, hair salons, wellness centers. 00:10:38.265 --> 00:10:42.035 I think what we did in tech was a very specific thing. 00:10:42.305 --> 00:10:46.125 We tried not to write a book that was for the tech community. 00:10:46.195 --> 00:10:49.585 It's really for all entrepreneurs and we think we've accomplished that. 00:10:49.965 --> 00:10:52.922 Candace Dellacona: You have, and you said a lot there, Mike, but what I 00:10:52.922 --> 00:10:55.492 was thinking about when I was reading the book is that it really is a 00:10:55.492 --> 00:10:59.112 blueprint for, partnerships overall. 00:10:59.362 --> 00:11:03.672 It's almost agnostic in the sense that to Kass's point picking a partner is similar 00:11:03.672 --> 00:11:09.062 to a marriage, and, as Sandwich Generation members, which I think I can safely say 00:11:09.062 --> 00:11:16.642 the three of us are, and surviving, I think, being in it and seeing the beauty 00:11:16.692 --> 00:11:22.817 and shoveling the shit at the same time, they will exist, side by side, right? 00:11:22.837 --> 00:11:27.167 And trying to find those moments that are really great and pulling 00:11:27.167 --> 00:11:29.397 through when it's not so great. 00:11:29.927 --> 00:11:30.997 Mike Lazerow: That's a hundred percent. 00:11:31.247 --> 00:11:33.777 Candace Dellacona: When it comes to, you're talking about one of your four 00:11:33.777 --> 00:11:39.282 part approaches, Kass pointed out that, she kept all of the lessons over 00:11:39.282 --> 00:11:45.275 the last couple of decades as a founder and helping other founders, the vision, 00:11:45.275 --> 00:11:48.815 communication, mindset, and workload approach and how universal that can 00:11:48.815 --> 00:11:52.355 be across the board, whether you're a founder or you're a spouse in a marriage. 00:11:52.805 --> 00:11:54.175 Can you talk about that a little bit? 00:11:54.815 --> 00:11:55.765 Kass Lazerow: Mike, you want to take it? 00:11:56.065 --> 00:11:57.135 Mike Lazerow: No, you take it first. 00:11:57.135 --> 00:12:00.315 Cause I think this is an area that you really thrive. 00:12:01.455 --> 00:12:04.008 Kass Lazerow: You have to have this, I want to make sure I'm 00:12:04.008 --> 00:12:05.078 answering the question right. 00:12:05.108 --> 00:12:08.438 So there's like a growth mindset that you have to have as an entrepreneur 00:12:08.438 --> 00:12:09.928 and a beginner mindset, right? 00:12:10.368 --> 00:12:16.758 And I think it doesn't matter if you're approaching a business, what you're 00:12:16.758 --> 00:12:21.628 doing it as a daily task, or if it's any kind of relationship, it's the idea 00:12:21.818 --> 00:12:26.628 that you've got to focus and prioritize, and you've got to understand that, 00:12:26.658 --> 00:12:29.918 especially when you're an entrepreneur and you're going from zero to one, 00:12:30.398 --> 00:12:32.528 what do you need to do to survive? 00:12:32.928 --> 00:12:35.048 And what is that kind of focus? 00:12:35.098 --> 00:12:37.088 There should be nothing else on your plate. 00:12:37.478 --> 00:12:42.538 And in order to do that, you create financials, you create a budget you 00:12:42.538 --> 00:12:46.298 basically put what you think is going to happen on the back of a napkin, right? 00:12:46.358 --> 00:12:48.868 Whatever you come up with in the first year of your financials, that's 00:12:48.878 --> 00:12:50.368 never going to be what you end with. 00:12:50.418 --> 00:12:53.648 But you are trying to prove that and you're trying to come up with 00:12:54.124 --> 00:12:59.084 success measurements, and you're going to use that to gauge your success. 00:12:59.574 --> 00:13:05.534 So, the idea of having the correct operational mindset that as an 00:13:05.534 --> 00:13:09.514 entrepreneur, there's nothing more that you can do than focus for that first year. 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:10.919 Candace Dellacona: Yeah, 00:13:11.104 --> 00:13:11.424 Mike Lazerow: Yeah. 00:13:11.474 --> 00:13:15.564 What's interesting about entrepreneurship is there's so much 00:13:15.614 --> 00:13:18.254 talk about this hustle culture. 00:13:18.314 --> 00:13:25.924 And I think what we're trying to say is that yes, you have to work hard, but 00:13:25.934 --> 00:13:27.894 hard work alone won't get you there. 00:13:28.484 --> 00:13:33.041 It's not about just whoever works harder wins. 00:13:33.081 --> 00:13:34.761 It's hard work is table stakes. 00:13:34.761 --> 00:13:40.321 And what we've tried to do is outline very specifically all of the lessons we 00:13:40.361 --> 00:13:46.431 wish that we had known when we started out that is going to be game changers. 00:13:46.681 --> 00:13:48.981 The book is one part of it, obviously. 00:13:49.651 --> 00:13:53.581 When you buy it, you get a toolkit, the entrepreneur toolkit, which is everything 00:13:53.581 --> 00:13:55.561 we use to launch these businesses. 00:13:55.571 --> 00:13:59.731 It's the Go-Gauge™ to test if the idea is viable, it's a budgeting 00:13:59.731 --> 00:14:03.781 system to even if you're not a finance person to put your ideas onto paper 00:14:04.001 --> 00:14:05.891 and see if the budget makes sense. 00:14:05.991 --> 00:14:07.461 Just back of a napkin. 00:14:08.031 --> 00:14:11.601 It's strategic frameworks for how to focus an organization. 00:14:12.201 --> 00:14:15.741 I think when Kass said earlier that she wants to get her ideas out in 00:14:15.741 --> 00:14:20.521 kind of an exponential format, it's we want to help entrepreneurs in a world 00:14:21.051 --> 00:14:25.471 that a lot of the jobs that we had access to growing up just don't exist. 00:14:25.991 --> 00:14:26.361 Candace Dellacona: true. 00:14:26.471 --> 00:14:29.251 Mike Lazerow: And I don't know if you would recommend someone go to law school 00:14:29.251 --> 00:14:32.221 to then try to become an associate and then a junior partner, then a 00:14:32.221 --> 00:14:33.831 partner, and then an equity partner. 00:14:33.881 --> 00:14:36.331 Because a lot of those jobs just don't exist, right? 00:14:36.561 --> 00:14:38.981 And I'm not even talking about Harvey.AI 00:14:39.001 --> 00:14:41.301 and what that's going to do to that business. 00:14:41.741 --> 00:14:47.251 I'm just talking about like the current environment where there isn't the fat 00:14:47.341 --> 00:14:51.321 that we used to have in the ad agency business, the law firm business. 00:14:51.961 --> 00:14:54.201 So everyone's an entrepreneur when you start out. 00:14:55.101 --> 00:14:56.401 So you got to sell yourself. 00:14:56.421 --> 00:14:58.041 That's product number one, right? 00:14:58.151 --> 00:15:02.831 And we think that there's some strategies that will help you focus 00:15:02.841 --> 00:15:06.791 and do that better, whether you want to be a billionaire or you just want to 00:15:07.141 --> 00:15:09.581 land somewhere you can do great work. 00:15:10.481 --> 00:15:12.011 Candace Dellacona: You're right, there's a methodology here. 00:15:12.011 --> 00:15:14.491 And that's one of the things that you pointed out in the book, that 00:15:14.521 --> 00:15:17.921 it's certainly not going to lead you to success 100 percent of the 00:15:17.921 --> 00:15:22.111 time, but it sets the framework to hopefully set you up for success. 00:15:22.121 --> 00:15:26.151 So the concept of your Go-Gauge™, I would love for you guys to talk more 00:15:26.151 --> 00:15:29.716 about that and maybe from Kass's perspective as the operational 00:15:29.716 --> 00:15:31.876 person and documenting all of it. 00:15:32.246 --> 00:15:34.546 And then maybe how you see it differently. 00:15:34.646 --> 00:15:38.286 And what happens when you disagree when a founder comes to you and they 00:15:38.286 --> 00:15:40.046 say we would love for you to invest. 00:15:40.106 --> 00:15:44.356 And you go through the Go-Gauge™, have you ever been in a position where Kass 00:15:44.376 --> 00:15:46.496 sees it one way and Mike sees it another? 00:15:47.706 --> 00:15:49.876 Kass Lazerow: Let me answer the back half of that question. 00:15:50.416 --> 00:15:54.916 When we have a pitch or a proposal coming to us. 00:15:55.656 --> 00:16:01.286 Mike and I developed that Go-Gauge™ and that framework to answer all these 00:16:01.286 --> 00:16:04.616 questions like what is the product, how is it different than anything 00:16:04.616 --> 00:16:07.936 out there, what's the audience size, how are you going to get it to that 00:16:07.936 --> 00:16:09.516 audience, all that kind of stuff. 00:16:09.993 --> 00:16:13.103 If you go through that and we can actually get answers to that. 00:16:13.113 --> 00:16:13.933 That's the first part. 00:16:14.013 --> 00:16:17.883 Not every founder actually can answer those questions. 00:16:17.933 --> 00:16:18.713 That's what we found. 00:16:19.533 --> 00:16:24.343 When it comes to making the decision and Mike's looked at over, all of the 00:16:24.343 --> 00:16:26.313 financials and maybe it makes sense. 00:16:26.533 --> 00:16:30.093 Let's say we get to that part and now they've crossed two hurdles. 00:16:30.093 --> 00:16:34.223 They'd answer the questions they had done the financials and for the most 00:16:34.233 --> 00:16:35.893 part, the financials make sense. 00:16:36.413 --> 00:16:39.813 Then it's about the aspect of people and leadership. 00:16:40.113 --> 00:16:44.013 Has this founder or founders, do they know what they don't know? 00:16:44.473 --> 00:16:45.743 That's what I'm looking for. 00:16:46.073 --> 00:16:50.893 So as the operator and the person that really looks at people and scaling 00:16:50.913 --> 00:16:56.123 teams, and can we get them to a place where they understand how to focus? 00:16:56.303 --> 00:17:01.243 I'm trying to find the humble co founder or co founders that say, look. 00:17:01.598 --> 00:17:04.998 I'm not going to know everything, but I'm going to hire the right people around me. 00:17:05.638 --> 00:17:07.831 So that's the answer to, the second part, Mike, do you 00:17:07.831 --> 00:17:08.841 want to answer the first part? 00:17:10.071 --> 00:17:11.441 Mike Lazerow: Yeah specifically. 00:17:11.981 --> 00:17:16.161 The Go-Gauge™ and all of the tools and strategies we put out there. 00:17:17.321 --> 00:17:20.311 It's not about if you do this, you will succeed. 00:17:20.841 --> 00:17:23.511 It's this will help you make fewer mistakes. 00:17:24.221 --> 00:17:29.551 And the biggest issue you have as an entrepreneur, both starting out 00:17:29.571 --> 00:17:35.051 and growing the business is fear and fear that's driven by the massive 00:17:35.051 --> 00:17:37.701 amount of uncertainty that you have. 00:17:38.111 --> 00:17:42.411 I compare it to, someone who's just walking around a dark room, 00:17:42.461 --> 00:17:48.111 trying to find the door, the handle to get out into some light. 00:17:48.111 --> 00:17:52.201 You bang your head, you trip over stuff, you're just lost. 00:17:52.786 --> 00:17:56.776 But you know on the other side of this door is some light and you 00:17:56.776 --> 00:17:59.806 could find a bathroom and something to eat and you could go on and live. 00:17:59.856 --> 00:18:05.136 And so we're trying to expose some strategies and tools 00:18:05.676 --> 00:18:06.676 that help us get there. 00:18:06.676 --> 00:18:10.706 And so we talked about co founders, one of the other biggest mistakes 00:18:10.706 --> 00:18:14.526 we see is greenlighting ideas that either shouldn't be greenlit or don't 00:18:14.536 --> 00:18:17.356 support the life that you want to live. 00:18:17.716 --> 00:18:23.586 And so specifically with the Go-Gauge™, it's a very simple, 00:18:23.776 --> 00:18:24.926 we didn't go to business school. 00:18:24.926 --> 00:18:31.716 So there's a very simple kind of outline or checklist, if you want that basically 00:18:31.716 --> 00:18:33.336 will help you make that decision. 00:18:33.336 --> 00:18:35.166 It all starts with what is the product? 00:18:35.546 --> 00:18:38.146 Why is it better than existing options? 00:18:38.596 --> 00:18:40.486 Cause you want something that's better. 00:18:42.126 --> 00:18:43.276 Who's the customer. 00:18:43.611 --> 00:18:46.161 And when I say, who's the customer, who's going to buy it 00:18:46.161 --> 00:18:47.671 and how many of them are there? 00:18:47.721 --> 00:18:51.061 So it's not just Oh, the golf industry is 80 billion dollars. 00:18:51.061 --> 00:18:54.561 It's okay, I don't know in a golf course, I got to take out that revenue. 00:18:54.561 --> 00:18:55.271 I don't own this. 00:18:55.321 --> 00:18:58.311 The people who you're targeting, what's a real size. 00:18:59.241 --> 00:19:03.021 And then what a lot of entrepreneurs don't really focus on is how will 00:19:03.031 --> 00:19:07.001 customers find out about your product, which is the fourth sales and marketing. 00:19:07.811 --> 00:19:10.721 And then the delivery channel, which is really important these days. 00:19:10.731 --> 00:19:16.571 How will, how you get it to customers, retail, e commerce, what's the model 00:19:17.191 --> 00:19:21.371 and that all kind of culminates in, a simple question, like, does the 00:19:21.371 --> 00:19:23.581 financial model pass the smell test? 00:19:24.681 --> 00:19:29.501 And so if you can focus up front on answering these questions, 00:19:29.501 --> 00:19:33.351 what happens is you'll still probably fail and have to pivot, 00:19:33.496 --> 00:19:33.866 Candace Dellacona: Yeah. 00:19:34.561 --> 00:19:37.061 Mike Lazerow: but if you don't focus on them, there's a good chance that 00:19:37.071 --> 00:19:38.331 you're definitely going to fail, 00:19:38.756 --> 00:19:39.456 Candace Dellacona: It makes sense. 00:19:39.486 --> 00:19:40.866 How do you deal with failure? 00:19:40.866 --> 00:19:41.686 How do you pivot? 00:19:41.696 --> 00:19:46.426 And what are your examples of, maybe realizing that you're through the process 00:19:46.426 --> 00:19:52.106 and it's just not working and, from your perspective, Kass is there a red flag 00:19:52.106 --> 00:19:55.886 where you realize, look, it's time to get out and it's not exactly what we thought? 00:19:58.491 --> 00:20:01.151 Kass Lazerow: I think, when it comes to business models, like 00:20:01.151 --> 00:20:04.541 Mike said, whatever you start with, isn't going to be what you end with. 00:20:04.851 --> 00:20:10.321 So I think entrepreneurs have to go into their companies realizing, okay, 00:20:10.371 --> 00:20:11.981 the first year is about survival. 00:20:12.031 --> 00:20:17.251 If I can get from zero to one and prove that the success metrics that I 00:20:17.251 --> 00:20:22.481 wrote down in this back of the napkin financials then I can move forward 00:20:22.861 --> 00:20:24.381 and you're going to have to pivot. 00:20:24.431 --> 00:20:27.151 I can't even name a company who started off as the same 00:20:27.161 --> 00:20:28.751 thing that they ended up with. 00:20:28.811 --> 00:20:30.001 If you think of any company. 00:20:30.521 --> 00:20:33.081 So the gut has to be there, right? 00:20:33.081 --> 00:20:34.241 You have to listen to your gut. 00:20:34.381 --> 00:20:36.371 And as Mike often says. 00:20:36.786 --> 00:20:42.476 It's this nagging thing that you start to hear and then you start to try to 00:20:42.486 --> 00:20:46.016 convince yourself that it's still working. 00:20:46.306 --> 00:20:50.476 And what I see from my vantage point is when you're in a company 00:20:50.486 --> 00:20:54.696 or we have investments and they're not pivoting, it's ego, right? 00:20:54.736 --> 00:20:58.536 So ego has gotten in the way and the ego has gotten in the way because of fear 00:20:58.956 --> 00:21:04.266 and the fear and the uncertainty of, Oh my gosh, I sold investors on this idea. 00:21:04.856 --> 00:21:08.436 Or my spouse knows this is what I've been telling every, this is my 00:21:08.436 --> 00:21:12.556 identity around this idea and you have to admit that it was wrong, right? 00:21:12.586 --> 00:21:16.326 That there are no customers or there's too much competition and 00:21:16.326 --> 00:21:18.056 my product isn't differentiated. 00:21:18.356 --> 00:21:23.656 So when you see and start to feel something, you're usually right. 00:21:23.686 --> 00:21:26.216 There's, as Mike always says to me, when's the last time 00:21:26.216 --> 00:21:27.866 you said, Oh, my gut was wrong. 00:21:28.346 --> 00:21:29.846 It's usually the opposite, 00:21:31.156 --> 00:21:33.506 Candace Dellacona: What I'll also say too is that when you're balancing these 00:21:33.506 --> 00:21:35.116 two concepts where you're like all in. 00:21:35.836 --> 00:21:40.346 And so you have to be all in, but then you also have to have the necessary distance 00:21:40.376 --> 00:21:42.116 to be able to do just what you said. 00:21:42.366 --> 00:21:45.376 Kass Lazerow: That's why you write down the financials, even if they're 00:21:45.376 --> 00:21:49.506 simple, because those become the success measurements and a lot of 00:21:49.506 --> 00:21:53.136 entrepreneurs decide, okay, I'll answer all of Mike's questions. 00:21:53.186 --> 00:21:56.356 And then we've got the financials and then they try to tell us, 00:21:56.386 --> 00:21:57.646 oh no, everything's going great. 00:21:58.401 --> 00:22:00.591 And we say, well, have you gone back to the financials? 00:22:00.791 --> 00:22:02.561 Because those are your measurements. 00:22:02.561 --> 00:22:05.201 That's what you basically told us you were going to do. 00:22:05.591 --> 00:22:10.891 And a lot of them don't go back and say, Oh my gosh, I don't have five customers or 00:22:10.891 --> 00:22:16.121 I don't have my first customer or I didn't hire X, Y, and Z people on the team. 00:22:16.681 --> 00:22:20.761 So that's really, that's like the formula for success in the first year. 00:22:21.246 --> 00:22:22.166 Candace Dellacona: Totally makes sense. 00:22:22.206 --> 00:22:25.786 And then what about, you're imparting all these lessons, to the founders. 00:22:25.816 --> 00:22:31.056 And then let's go back and delve into the family life piece and what work 00:22:31.066 --> 00:22:35.276 life balance looks like when you're a founder and a parent, you guys have kids. 00:22:35.478 --> 00:22:40.628 And how did that look for you and maybe what would you do differently when 00:22:40.628 --> 00:22:45.678 it comes to that, being parents and being all in and trying to be present. 00:22:46.983 --> 00:22:51.043 Kass Lazerow: I think Mike and I, at least this last company, Buddy Media we 00:22:51.043 --> 00:22:55.243 did a really good job at communicating that we were going to be all in 00:22:55.733 --> 00:22:57.943 and, we're coming from one family. 00:22:57.943 --> 00:23:00.383 So we had all of our eggs in one basket. 00:23:00.383 --> 00:23:04.623 So there was no parachute, there was nobody else providing an income. 00:23:05.068 --> 00:23:08.158 But we acknowledged that we were going to sacrifice the kids when they were 00:23:08.158 --> 00:23:13.058 little, meaning we were not going to be around as much as we should have been. 00:23:13.418 --> 00:23:15.528 At least that's, you can hear my guilt there, should have been. 00:23:15.908 --> 00:23:19.948 And that if we could get back to them when they were older, you know, the 00:23:19.948 --> 00:23:23.858 drill, Candace, big kids, big problems, younger kids, smaller problems. 00:23:24.268 --> 00:23:25.958 So that was definitely it. 00:23:25.973 --> 00:23:27.444 But there is no balance. 00:23:27.504 --> 00:23:29.644 I know, you know, this, there is zero balance. 00:23:29.644 --> 00:23:31.904 You can only do one thing well at a time. 00:23:32.374 --> 00:23:35.154 And as an entrepreneur, you have to be all in. 00:23:35.524 --> 00:23:37.444 So there's massive sacrifices. 00:23:37.684 --> 00:23:40.834 I didn't know anyone at the school that my kids went to. 00:23:41.054 --> 00:23:45.904 I never made friends so that you went on little trips or spent the, President's 00:23:45.924 --> 00:23:47.884 Day weekend going skiing with them. 00:23:47.884 --> 00:23:51.054 We were barely keeping, our head above water. 00:23:51.384 --> 00:23:55.474 So, the concept Is in what I would have done differently is I 00:23:55.474 --> 00:23:57.294 would have been kinder to myself. 00:23:57.344 --> 00:24:01.424 I would have said, Oh my gosh, they are going to be okay. 00:24:01.604 --> 00:24:02.634 It takes a village. 00:24:02.794 --> 00:24:03.774 There are people around them. 00:24:03.784 --> 00:24:08.004 We had wonderful babysitters, absolutely wonderful babysitters. 00:24:08.369 --> 00:24:09.719 One of whom is Jessica. 00:24:09.749 --> 00:24:11.689 And she just was wonderful. 00:24:11.689 --> 00:24:16.879 And she would just love them so much and they will be okay as a result. 00:24:17.153 --> 00:24:17.943 Candace Dellacona: And what about you, Mike? 00:24:17.943 --> 00:24:21.413 How do you see it in terms of being a dad and, the all in? 00:24:21.433 --> 00:24:25.913 Because Kass and I share that feeling of the mom guilt, which I think, 00:24:25.963 --> 00:24:27.723 is maybe not so fair to the dads. 00:24:27.723 --> 00:24:30.493 But, I'm interested to see what your perspective is on that. 00:24:31.213 --> 00:24:35.983 Mike Lazerow: The mom guilt is real and it's much different than dads. 00:24:36.033 --> 00:24:38.303 It's always been much easier for me to just disappear. 00:24:38.893 --> 00:24:43.363 I like a certain band, I'll go do a four night stand, I was just in 00:24:43.373 --> 00:24:49.713 Mexico seeing them, and it's easy for me to turn off my head and get away. 00:24:49.723 --> 00:24:56.213 It's harder in general for Kass and for a lot of our friends who are moms and it's 00:24:56.213 --> 00:24:59.163 probably a good thing, just evolutionary. 00:24:59.213 --> 00:25:03.633 So we're in Africa over the holidays and some of the most successful 00:25:03.643 --> 00:25:05.923 species are women led, right? 00:25:06.183 --> 00:25:07.403 Which I think we are. 00:25:07.633 --> 00:25:12.503 So you look at elephants, you look at some of the, let's just say the 00:25:12.503 --> 00:25:18.043 animals who aren't getting eaten every day in the jungle and on the planes, 00:25:18.058 --> 00:25:18.438 Candace Dellacona: Yeah. 00:25:19.143 --> 00:25:22.236 Mike Lazerow: like they're very strong matriarchies. 00:25:22.276 --> 00:25:26.416 And I think part of that is you need someone to worry about the health of 00:25:26.446 --> 00:25:28.956 the family, in that case, survival. 00:25:29.006 --> 00:25:30.346 I wouldn't want to be an Impala. 00:25:31.086 --> 00:25:32.666 Everyone seems to eat impalas. 00:25:32.756 --> 00:25:35.666 Well, we're just going to have a lot of babies and then whatever happens, happens. 00:25:36.426 --> 00:25:39.136 Where there's nurturing of elephants by the mothers. 00:25:39.636 --> 00:25:43.146 For me, I didn't think about it as much at the time I was 00:25:43.156 --> 00:25:45.126 also on the road a lot more. 00:25:45.176 --> 00:25:48.106 So I did sales and business development Kass a lot of the marketing. 00:25:48.726 --> 00:25:54.261 And there's nothing harder than being at home with the kids when they're young. 00:25:54.461 --> 00:25:55.721 We had very young kids. 00:25:55.721 --> 00:25:58.341 We had kids all around every company we launched. 00:25:59.181 --> 00:26:02.251 And so it was like, we'd go to work and then we would take care of the family. 00:26:02.251 --> 00:26:03.851 That was life for a long time. 00:26:04.821 --> 00:26:07.331 Which is why we're so excited to be empty nesters in the fall. 00:26:07.411 --> 00:26:10.631 We love our kids, but come on, 23 years later, like we 00:26:10.746 --> 00:26:11.066 Candace Dellacona: right? 00:26:11.276 --> 00:26:11.486 It's 00:26:11.591 --> 00:26:12.831 Mike Lazerow: got shit we gotta do. 00:26:13.801 --> 00:26:15.531 And so I'm just being honest. 00:26:15.531 --> 00:26:17.201 I didn't think about it as much. 00:26:17.751 --> 00:26:23.791 And, we were fully in it together with a shared life, 00:26:23.881 --> 00:26:27.381 even though Kass bore a lot more. 00:26:27.651 --> 00:26:31.511 For example I didn't know when the dentist, appointments were. 00:26:31.581 --> 00:26:32.661 Doctors appointments. 00:26:32.711 --> 00:26:37.441 So Kass is managing hundreds of employees, keeping everything straight, quarterly 00:26:37.441 --> 00:26:42.071 meetings, board meetings and she has these three dependents, who act like board 00:26:42.071 --> 00:26:45.481 members, who have to be driven everywhere, and you gotta keep the schedule. 00:26:45.581 --> 00:26:46.721 Kass Lazerow: Little CEOs, I 00:26:46.776 --> 00:26:48.606 Mike Lazerow: don't really know how Kass did it, 00:26:48.726 --> 00:26:50.366 Candace Dellacona: still had to sign the permission slips 00:26:50.386 --> 00:26:52.136 Kass Lazerow: Funny you say that, Candace. 00:26:52.766 --> 00:26:57.126 So the other day I had an entrepreneur mom say to me I just, I'm overwhelmed 00:26:57.126 --> 00:27:00.736 on this and I'm trying to help her understand that, she isn't 00:27:00.966 --> 00:27:03.136 perfect with what she does at home. 00:27:03.276 --> 00:27:03.886 And. 00:27:04.306 --> 00:27:05.556 Everything's going to be okay. 00:27:05.756 --> 00:27:07.686 And she starts talking about permission slips. 00:27:07.686 --> 00:27:10.346 The school won't stop sending multiple emails. 00:27:10.356 --> 00:27:12.336 She has multiple kids at the same school. 00:27:12.336 --> 00:27:13.956 She's getting four sets of emails. 00:27:13.956 --> 00:27:15.306 It's like crazy town. 00:27:15.586 --> 00:27:21.026 And I thought to myself, Oh my gosh, I don't remember ever signing anything. 00:27:21.126 --> 00:27:24.216 I literally have no memory of signing anything. 00:27:24.216 --> 00:27:27.706 I remember when we got to 2012 and 00:27:29.796 --> 00:27:33.686 our last two kids got into a different school and I said, okay, Mike, 00:27:33.686 --> 00:27:34.916 this is first day is lower school. 00:27:34.916 --> 00:27:36.126 We got to get them to school. 00:27:36.126 --> 00:27:37.166 He's like, okay, great. 00:27:37.526 --> 00:27:42.036 And we sat in assembly and the lower school was like, okay, now find 00:27:42.036 --> 00:27:46.066 your teacher with the flag that she's holding up or he's holding 00:27:46.066 --> 00:27:47.946 up and then drop your kids off. 00:27:48.006 --> 00:27:50.576 And I looked at Mike and Mike looks at me, he goes, do you know? 00:27:50.606 --> 00:27:51.486 And I'm like, I don't know. 00:27:51.486 --> 00:27:52.606 He's did you read the email? 00:27:52.606 --> 00:27:53.776 I'm like, I didn't read the email. 00:27:54.126 --> 00:27:58.356 So we were the only parents going around saying, Lazerows here. 00:27:58.576 --> 00:27:59.836 Lazerows here. 00:27:59.846 --> 00:28:00.196 Yeah. 00:28:00.386 --> 00:28:01.256 It's hard. 00:28:01.316 --> 00:28:09.261 The mental load, especially on mompreneurs, as I call them, is massive, 00:28:09.911 --> 00:28:14.791 because 99 percent of the time we are the default parent and that means 00:28:14.791 --> 00:28:16.361 that we're carrying the mental load. 00:28:16.791 --> 00:28:20.841 And then when you're at a company and you're trying to be a founder, 00:28:21.571 --> 00:28:23.821 it's two or three times more work. 00:28:24.236 --> 00:28:24.796 Candace Dellacona: for sure. 00:28:24.806 --> 00:28:28.506 Not to take anything away from you, Mike, but, I obviously agree with you, 00:28:28.506 --> 00:28:29.986 Kass, and I think I'm there with you. 00:28:30.006 --> 00:28:33.596 I also think, though, that having a good partner and recognizing what 00:28:33.616 --> 00:28:39.596 each of you are good at and forgiving each other where, you have, as a co 00:28:39.596 --> 00:28:44.236 founder with Mike, you had an inside, bird's eye view of what he was doing. 00:28:44.761 --> 00:28:45.241 Kass Lazerow: Yes. 00:28:45.596 --> 00:28:46.066 Candace Dellacona: were involved. 00:28:46.686 --> 00:28:47.436 Yeah, for 00:28:47.441 --> 00:28:48.451 Kass Lazerow: really helped. 00:28:48.681 --> 00:28:49.201 Yes. 00:28:49.251 --> 00:28:52.791 Because I think that's what Mike refers to as our shared life. 00:28:53.091 --> 00:28:54.241 There was no resentment. 00:28:54.281 --> 00:28:58.911 It wasn't like I would do it much harder and it was harder when Mike 00:28:58.911 --> 00:29:02.881 had his earn out at Salesforce and I came back and I was with the 00:29:02.881 --> 00:29:05.781 kids for, many years not working. 00:29:05.961 --> 00:29:09.001 And that was harder because I didn't know what was going on. 00:29:09.001 --> 00:29:12.831 And I felt resentment that I was doing everything, but being co 00:29:12.831 --> 00:29:16.651 founders together again goes back to picking the right partner. 00:29:16.701 --> 00:29:22.051 I could see that he wasn't, just working and going on boondoggles and stuff. 00:29:22.261 --> 00:29:23.261 We were in this. 00:29:23.921 --> 00:29:25.681 I mean, he did go to Phish boondoggles. 00:29:25.711 --> 00:29:27.381 Let me just say that he's always done that. 00:29:28.471 --> 00:29:30.801 Candace Dellacona: Well, the last thing, I was thinking of, when I was reading 00:29:30.801 --> 00:29:33.991 your book and I mentioned this briefly to you, Kass, is that, you brought up 00:29:33.991 --> 00:29:35.891 your dad and the concept of modeling. 00:29:35.891 --> 00:29:41.301 When it comes to being a founder and advising other founders 00:29:41.381 --> 00:29:43.341 and even with parenting. 00:29:43.341 --> 00:29:47.831 So your kids saw you working so hard, both of you going all in, 00:29:48.591 --> 00:29:53.071 committing, really being just devoted to the idea and the success. 00:29:53.771 --> 00:30:00.071 How do you think modeling for your kids and other founders is the key? 00:30:00.321 --> 00:30:04.551 So when other founders pick up this book, really, that's what you've done. 00:30:05.411 --> 00:30:06.591 Kass Lazerow: So I think it's everything. 00:30:06.621 --> 00:30:10.091 And I'll take the first part of and say in a company, right. 00:30:10.091 --> 00:30:10.101 Yeah. 00:30:10.671 --> 00:30:12.981 That leaders have to shovel first, right? 00:30:13.041 --> 00:30:14.371 We have a whole chapter on that. 00:30:14.621 --> 00:30:17.811 There's nothing that I would ask of someone else that I wouldn't 00:30:17.811 --> 00:30:19.551 do, or I haven't done with them. 00:30:20.131 --> 00:30:21.141 So it doesn't matter. 00:30:21.181 --> 00:30:24.611 So that's the mindset that you have to get, through your head as an entrepreneur, 00:30:24.621 --> 00:30:28.878 that there's no hierarchy, you might put a hierarchy and I strongly suggest you 00:30:28.878 --> 00:30:34.254 don't inflate titles, but when you have this company, you have to think about 00:30:34.294 --> 00:30:36.534 every action, every word means something. 00:30:36.979 --> 00:30:40.219 And are you trying to build a positive culture, or are you 00:30:40.219 --> 00:30:44.423 just trying to be standoffish and being a king or a queen up here? 00:30:44.873 --> 00:30:49.333 And then when it comes to your kids, that's the same kind of mentality. 00:30:49.433 --> 00:30:53.463 My mom modeled that she always gave back to the communities, 00:30:53.533 --> 00:30:54.743 and she volunteered a lot. 00:30:54.963 --> 00:30:57.173 So it's always been something that's very important to me. 00:30:57.203 --> 00:31:01.383 And that's why we brought it to our companies like Cycle for Survival. 00:31:01.383 --> 00:31:01.963 We've done that. 00:31:01.963 --> 00:31:03.843 This was our 17th year doing this. 00:31:04.193 --> 00:31:07.303 And it became a really big culture glue. 00:31:07.753 --> 00:31:11.163 I always think though, Candace are my kids paying attention? 00:31:11.253 --> 00:31:14.933 And I can say to those parents who are like, Oh my God, I'm modeling all 00:31:14.933 --> 00:31:16.723 this, but nothing seems to be working. 00:31:17.143 --> 00:31:20.513 I can give this one kind of glimmer of hope and example. 00:31:21.468 --> 00:31:27.008 I've always worked out, I was a tennis player in college and my dad was big into 00:31:27.008 --> 00:31:31.728 lifting way before anybody lifted and he really understood the idea of longevity 00:31:31.728 --> 00:31:33.188 and strength and things like that. 00:31:33.638 --> 00:31:38.018 So I always had, and then, it's hard when you're a founder to find time to 00:31:38.018 --> 00:31:39.858 work out, but I strongly suggest it. 00:31:40.261 --> 00:31:43.631 So we work out five to six days a week, and I always wondered, 00:31:43.791 --> 00:31:46.131 would our kids see that and do it? 00:31:46.131 --> 00:31:48.491 Because you can't just say, you should work out, you should work 00:31:48.491 --> 00:31:49.931 out, they're not going to do it. 00:31:50.311 --> 00:31:51.531 All three of them work out. 00:31:51.532 --> 00:31:52.332 Candace Dellacona: That's a great example. 00:31:52.332 --> 00:31:53.018 What about you, Mike? 00:31:53.018 --> 00:31:54.635 What do you see the modeling 00:31:54.645 --> 00:31:59.078 Mike Lazerow: The only way, especially at home, but I think it's the same 00:31:59.078 --> 00:32:03.428 with work, when I tell my kids to do something, or I tell them a 00:32:03.428 --> 00:32:06.448 lesson, they want to do the opposite. 00:32:06.728 --> 00:32:11.338 It does nothing like, Oh, be a good person or care about others. 00:32:11.418 --> 00:32:18.468 But when we model it, it sinks in because they see it over a long period of time. 00:32:19.213 --> 00:32:20.553 It's not empty words. 00:32:20.553 --> 00:32:25.513 And so I love the workout analogy that Kass just talked about, but 00:32:25.513 --> 00:32:29.323 it goes into everything from, is it a surprise that one of our kids 00:32:29.323 --> 00:32:30.813 is launching a company right now? 00:32:31.303 --> 00:32:35.163 The work we've done in philanthropy has definitely impacted, we've 00:32:35.163 --> 00:32:40.063 been long involved with Cycle for Survival for 17, 18 years. 00:32:40.653 --> 00:32:42.653 And we have a daughter now who. 00:32:43.693 --> 00:32:47.033 Only thing she wants to do is cancer research and worked in an MSK 00:32:48.013 --> 00:32:53.853 leukemia lab last summer and will be pursuing biology and neuroscience. 00:32:54.603 --> 00:32:56.013 In college, starting in the fall. 00:32:56.083 --> 00:32:56.683 Candace Dellacona: Amazing. 00:32:56.988 --> 00:33:00.298 Mike Lazerow: Your actions really matter. 00:33:01.148 --> 00:33:04.278 And we know that on the downside. 00:33:04.328 --> 00:33:08.648 So kids are born good, but they can get turned around by parents who 00:33:08.648 --> 00:33:11.558 are abusive and just aren't there. 00:33:11.648 --> 00:33:13.058 Don't put up the boundaries. 00:33:13.158 --> 00:33:14.248 Just are absent. 00:33:15.408 --> 00:33:18.628 It's also true on the upside. 00:33:18.678 --> 00:33:21.788 So how we, our relationship to friends. 00:33:22.418 --> 00:33:24.198 To family, like if we want 00:33:24.318 --> 00:33:25.098 Kass Lazerow: treat people? 00:33:25.118 --> 00:33:27.118 Mike Lazerow: we want them to be close with us, we should 00:33:27.208 --> 00:33:28.838 treat our parents respectfully. 00:33:28.908 --> 00:33:32.648 And it's not always easy if you've met my mom, who hopefully 00:33:32.648 --> 00:33:34.348 is not listening, Nancy. 00:33:34.778 --> 00:33:36.148 Kass Lazerow: Mammam means well. 00:33:36.188 --> 00:33:38.208 Mike Lazerow: Listen, we have a great relationship, and we hope 00:33:38.258 --> 00:33:41.638 that is a model for the future. 00:33:41.638 --> 00:33:46.218 I think in a company we can't, we got to hundreds of employees. 00:33:46.818 --> 00:33:48.098 We set the tone. 00:33:48.148 --> 00:33:50.628 People weren't necessarily seeing us every day. 00:33:51.363 --> 00:33:56.343 But that's why we use Cycle for Survival, quarterly meetings, giving back, making, 00:33:56.353 --> 00:34:05.833 doing good and doing well, a key part of our ethos and like any organization 00:34:05.833 --> 00:34:11.243 you have symbols and rituals and stuff that you care about values and you have 00:34:11.243 --> 00:34:16.313 to be very proactive about it because if you're not, you see what happened 00:34:16.333 --> 00:34:18.003 with companies that don't focus on it, 00:34:18.063 --> 00:34:18.803 Candace Dellacona: Absolutely. 00:34:18.998 --> 00:34:20.218 Kass Lazerow: And you have to be consistent. 00:34:21.178 --> 00:34:25.068 I think the other part, Candace, either personally or professionally, is that 00:34:25.318 --> 00:34:27.398 everything you do has to be consistent. 00:34:28.513 --> 00:34:31.473 Candace Dellacona: I think that, at the end of the day, both of you have 00:34:31.473 --> 00:34:35.413 done such a good job at that with this book and the way that you live 00:34:35.413 --> 00:34:38.543 your lives, the way that you've, been founders of your own companies. 00:34:38.593 --> 00:34:42.453 I'm so happy to have had the opportunity to speak with you today 00:34:42.513 --> 00:34:46.573 and obviously read the book and I want to tell our listeners that it is 00:34:46.573 --> 00:34:48.503 available for pre order, right guys? 00:34:48.533 --> 00:34:49.253 Kass Lazerow: Yes, it is. 00:34:49.623 --> 00:34:50.543 Candace Dellacona: You have your own website. 00:34:50.543 --> 00:34:57.083 We're going to put all of the information in our comment section for the podcast, 00:34:57.303 --> 00:35:00.663 including Cycle for Survival, which I know is really important to both 00:35:00.663 --> 00:35:02.313 of you in honor of your friends. 00:35:02.323 --> 00:35:06.483 So thank you so much for spending time with me today and giving me 00:35:06.483 --> 00:35:09.033 the inside scoop on your success. 00:35:09.613 --> 00:35:11.463 And I wish you the best with the book. 00:35:12.153 --> 00:35:12.693 Kass Lazerow: Thank you. 00:35:12.723 --> 00:35:13.703 Thank you so much. 00:35:13.723 --> 00:35:16.453 And thank you too for always having our back. 00:35:16.783 --> 00:35:17.223 Candace Dellacona: Yeah. 00:35:17.243 --> 00:35:17.923 My pleasure.