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good morning Grid Connections listeners.

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I'm joined today by Steve Gutmann and Robert Wallace.

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I've got a pretty interesting story to talk with you about today and what they're kind of
bringing as a perspective to EV drivers specifically in rural areas.

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And I think this is a subject that's always been really uh close to me with my own
personal experience in driving EVs throughout the Northwest here.

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uh Steve and Robert, thank you so much for coming on today.

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You bet.

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thanks for having us.

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So Steve, I know you've been in kind of the EV space for a little while.

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Can you give maybe a bit of a background on yourself?

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And then we'll kind of talk about what brings you onto the podcast today and specifically
just the greater thing that your team's trying to help people in this space learn about

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and really make EV driving uh more feasible and just easier for people in rural
communities and how big of an impact it's already having.

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Yeah, sure.

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ah Let's see, I got started uh working in the EV space, it must have been about, I don't
know exactly, six years ago.

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I worked at FORTH, a uh nonprofit in Portland that does transportation electrification
work ah for about three years.

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While there, I actually worked with Robert uh on a program called eFarms that tries to
bring electric uh

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equipment to um to agricultural producers.

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uh Later, after I left fourth, I was hired by a very large company called NextEra.

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NextEra is a big wind and solar and battery, stationary battery developer, and they
started a transportation electrification division, worked there for a couple of years, and

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they ended up getting out of that business.

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And when that happened, I

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I decided to try to uh parlay my fundraising experience into uh sort of a grant writing
business.

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And my first client uh in that business was uh Robert.

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And we worked on a couple of grant applications together.

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We won a couple of grants, couple of big grants, uh and uh was actually

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during uh when we went to, we took a trip to Astoria to receive an award from the Rural
Development Administration.

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I think it was, right Robert?

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Is that right?

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Yeah, yeah, anyway, we went to Astoria to receive an award together and uh during that
trip, um well, it's a pretty interesting story that I'll let Robert tell, but we, um

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That became sort of the genesis of EV Math, which is a statewide marketing campaign that
my business partner, uh Mark Jacobs, along with uh Robert's nonprofit, Y East Resource

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Conservation and Development, we are spinning up this thing called EV Math.

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And it's really a statewide marketing campaign to normalize uh electric vehicles.

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um among rural Oregonians.

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We'll talk more about that.

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But Robert, why don't you tell the story of our trip to uh Astoria.

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Yeah, so everybody asked me how I got involved with electric vehicles or what have you and
it initially started with the eFarms program that Steve had mentioned and with that we had

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purchased one of the first Rivian pickup trucks that hit the market and so that was kind
of my very first experience.

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But that was part of the program, it wasn't necessarily a personal vehicle or anything and
in the meantime I'm traveling all over the state driving a diesel pickup and Steve he kept

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He kind of kept after me and we'd be he'd called me on the phone as I'm driving down the
road and I remember one time I was going to my daughter's track meet and I know I was 130

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miles away or what have you and he's like how much does it cost you to drive that pickup
and and he kept kind of grilling me we're over the phone going through these costs and as

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this as this award

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event came up in Astoria.

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He's like, I live up near the Dalles and he's out of the Portland area.

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And he's like, you meet me ah over on the east side of Portland and I'm driving you down
to Astoria and my Tesla.

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Cause I'd, I'd ridden in Tesla once and really hadn't experienced that.

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And so anyways, I met Steve, we hopped in his Tesla and proceeded to drive down to Astoria
and received the award.

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And then drove back to Portland and especially on the way back.

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On the way down, was more talking about the features of the car.

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You know, it's got some unique features and such.

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And on the way back, you know, we kind of got talking about the numbers on it.

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I'm just thinking to myself, how many miles do I drive a year and I'm driving a diesel
pickup?

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What if I, what if I switched and, you know, keep the diesel pickup for hauling heavier
loads and stuff?

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But what if I did switch and buy this car?

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You know, could I

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you know, doesn't make sense.

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And, uh, and so that, was kinda, uh, I was kinda hooked.

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I think at the time I really liked, I really liked Steve's car and it was, you know, it
was a used, uh, model three Tesla.

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And I actually went and bought the exact same car Steve, Steve has, uh, I, I, you know,
started looking online and, and what was available and, and, found a used, uh, Tesla model

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three.

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was a 2018.

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at Platte Auto there in Portland.

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And I mentioned it to Steve and Steve's like, I'll go down there.

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I'll go down there and check it out for you.

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And he did.

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He did.

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And anyways, ended up pursuing that car and was able to get the federal tax credit on it,
on that used EV.

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And so to me, you know, I bought a used EV basically for $21,000.

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And I just kind of at that time, like I'm going to, you know,

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I'm just going to start driving this car anytime I'm doing a road trip that I don't need
to take the pickup.

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And so that was my, you know, that's my first personal EV that I've, that I've had
experience with and, and, have had other experience with some of the other vehicles and

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some of the, some of the work we do.

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Yeah, I really appreciate the context and kind of the background for all that.

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I guess one, can we take a step back and tell, go speaking of just like, I think there's a
lot of great things we kind of talked about here, but you mentioned kind of like the

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electric farm equipment that I believe you're kind of doing with FORTH and that program.

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And I know that's not directly related to EV math, but I think probably for a lot of our
listeners, this might be

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kind of surprising that I mean, electrification really going into a lot of different
fields.

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It's not just kind of for people's to replace people's second car or something.

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I it's obviously becoming a more common form of transportation.

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And then there's also kind of actual practicality on the industrial side.

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I mean, could you share a little bit of how that program kind of worked around like, what
were some of your takeaways as far as the feasibility of kind of electrifying more of your

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day to day?

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equipment.

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I'll kick it off.

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So when I applied for the job at FORTH, I actually pitched the executive director, guy
named Jeff Allen, on the idea of looking into a company out of California.

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It's called Solectrack that was making, you know, basically hand building electric
tractors to see if we might do some sort of a try before you buy program to get

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agricultural producers

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uh in Oregon to try an electric tractor.

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Now these are not big combines or anything like that.

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They're tiny little, what do you call them, utility tractors.

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So I think they're like 50 horse equivalent or something like that, right Robert?

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Anyway, we ended up getting a grant and we needed somebody to, uh somebody who wasn't from
the city like me, to go out into rural communities and actually show people these

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tractors.

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uh

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mutual friend of ours introduced Robert and me and he ended up being sort of the, you
know, the tip of the spear in terms of taking this newfangled equipment out to rural

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producers because he's got more credibility than anybody from Portland does in terms of
talking to people out in rural Oregon.

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yeah, he started doing that.

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Robert, why don't you talk about what's happened to the program since and what it's called
and where to find information about it too.

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Yeah, I have to admit I my apologies for going down this rabbit hole a little bit But I'm
actually in the market for a new tractor So it is coming from a purely selfish standpoint,

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too So I'm really curious to hear more and how this worked out for you Robert

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Yeah, I remember when Steve called me and I knew who FORTH was, the organization he was
working for, but I didn't necessarily know a lot about him.

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And he wanted to know if I'd be interested in working with them to test this electric
tractor out that they were looking at.

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it caught me off.

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I didn't even know there was electric tractors on the market.

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I'd obviously heard about the electric uh vehicles, on-road cars and such.

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uh

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And I just had to think about it.

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And I never gave him an answer to that day.

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said, I need to think about this because I my, kind of thought, you know, my reputation's
on the line from, you know, testing out this darn electric tractor.

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What does that mean?

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You know, for some of the work we're doing, but long story short, we ended up pursuing
with that and that, that the program was originally called E-tractor and now it's called

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E-Farms.

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And it's actually a

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coordination of four different nonprofits and so uh forth uh out of Portland uh
sustainable Northwest is another Portland based nonprofit Bonneville environmental

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foundation and then why East RC and D and so we've uh joined together are exploring this
this program and essentially we've got a mixture of electric vehicles

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We've had the Rivian pickup truck.

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We've got the Ford F-150 Lightning pickup truck We've got a few of the Monarch electric
tractors.

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We originally started with these select track tractors and select tractors since we've
been out of business um We've got ah some of the Polaris UTVs or Polaris side-by-sides

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that are fully electric.

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We've got uh one of the uh JCB mini excavators

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that's for the country.

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And so we've got kind of a variety of different equipment.

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To date, most of the focus has really been in Oregon, kind of starting 2025.

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We've been exploring more in Washington state, a lot of that just because of the funding
that had been derived from that.

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And so essentially what we do is we look and see what's on the market, what we think may
be useful in rural areas as equipment wise or vehicle wise, purchase that through grant

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funding.

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uh bring it into our program.

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I live on a small farm south of the Dalles out in Duford, Oregon.

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And so I'll actually bring it to my farm.

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We field test it.

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We, know, tractors, put a mower on it, a rototiller, what have you, and we actually go use
it on the farm operation here.

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And we'll, you know, kind of do the initial testing on it.

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We'll put data collection on it.

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uh And then once it's ready, we actually loan these pieces of equipment out.

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to small farms in Oregon that have an interest in testing the equipment, uh whether that's
the pickup truck or the Polaris or the tractors or what have you.

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And I think initially we thought, boy, is there an appetite for rural folks that actually
want to test this stuff out.

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And we've been overwhelmed by people that are interested in testing these vehicles out.

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Because I mean, it just, you

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Up until a few years ago, you didn't see very many electric vehicles outside of the
Portland area.

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I just remember usually for us driving from the Dalles into Portland, you hit about
Troutdale Gresham and you start seeing some Teslas and stuff and you just didn't see that

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around much in the rural areas and stuff.

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so long story short, the C-Farm program is up and going again.

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It's a collaboration for Portland, Oregon.

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based nonprofits and it's been quite successful um and stuff.

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And so it's been a really fun program to work in.

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That's great to hear.

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I guess, yeah, now that you're saying you can borrow these, if someone will drive it over
the hood, we're a bridge.

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I might take you up on that.

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ah But so I guess I think electric motors, torque, there's a lot of reasons why it makes
sense, especially um compared to like the average little Kubota you'd be replacing it

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with.

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And it's funny you bring this up because I was just at the.

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Down EV charging summit in.

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Vegas back in March and John Deere and a lot of these other kind of larger commercial
players are now really starting to make a move into electrification as well.

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I guess for those who are listening, mean, can you just share like some of the things that
kind of stood out to you when you were making that first decision about like, why is this

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Monarch or this electric that much better than just the average Kubota or what's been your
experience with that kind of switch from the traditional diesel?

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a tractor over to an electric one.

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Yeah, I'll start off by saying, you know, Kubota, John Deere, New Holland, Case, I mean,
they've got over 100 years of engineering in there in that equipment.

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And it's a tough, you know, tough level of engineering to meet and stuff.

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so, ah you know, I think

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As we're testing the equipment out we're trying to it's tough to compare against the John
Deere or Kubota because I mean here you've got a very very high standard there and so but

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there's some things with the electric equipment that I think's Beneficial it's a little
bit different and and some of that is you know Not only the operation of the equipment you

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have a lot of torque with the electric equipment and such but um it's basically a mobile
power plant on wheels and so like

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on my place, I mean, right as we speak, I've got one of them on our tractors that's
running a little irrigation pump for me in an area where I have no power, but I can charge

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the tractor, take it up there and it's got outboard power, 110 and 220 volt outlets.

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And so I can run a little irrigation pump off it.

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And so there's some different things that are an advantage with the electric that you
don't traditionally see on a diesel tractor and stuff.

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so I think, you know,

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the one of the factors that a lot of the manufacturers had mentioned to us originally was
the noise.

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And I didn't really appreciate it until we had a chance to operate the electric.

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And so it's, you know, we're looking at it a lot of times on a cost basis, you compare an
electric to diesel, the cost of the electric equipment tends to be higher.

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And I think that's a real, a real challenge to try to figure out how to, how to navigate
that.

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But,

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the noise aspect and I've had a number of folks after they run the electric, they're like,
I've never been able to talk while I'm planting grapes or harvesting or doing these

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different, whatever tasks they are when there's multiple people in the field around the
tractor because the tractor traditionally makes so much noise.

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And so we kind of focus uh originally on the cost, the operation of the electric equipment
and such.

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And then we're thinking about, well, hey, if

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If you had a greenhouse operation and you had electric versus diesel, know, just the
emissions inside that enclosed area, you know, could be impactful and, those types of

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things.

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And with the Monarch, one of the features to it that we, aren't necessarily involved with,
but is it's actually a, got capabilities of being an autonomous tractor.

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And so we had Monarch come in, um, uh, in 2024 for the, uh, cherry pre-harvest tour.

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that Oregon State uh University Extension and Washington State University Extension had
hosted uh in Dallasport in the Dalles.

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And we actually set that tractor up to run it in a fully autonomous mode.

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And so the cherry growers, you know, there's probably 150 cherry orchardists around and
researchers and such.

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And basically the tractor starts up, starts down the row, mows down the row, turns around
and comes back mowing.

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And everybody's, everybody just looked, you know, I couldn't believe that.

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And so our eFarms program's really looking at the electric drive train, but there are
other, other pieces to these, you know, newer pieces of equipment and such that, you know,

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not to say you can't have an autonomous diesel tractor either, but you know, that was one
of the features with the Monarch specifically that, oh that they've tried to promote in

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our marketing and stuff.

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No, that's interesting.

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I I can see how that plays kind of further into like the cost of maybe a higher upfront
cost ownership, but then the cost operation and other kinds of benefits and the autonomy

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with the labor aspect of it's pretty impactful.

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But we'll transition back over to what we're here to talk about today.

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And I think that cost of operation uh is probably pretty significant and kind of, it
sounds like what's a big part of the reason.

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You initially were kind of interested in going electric for your personal vehicle instead
of driving the diesel truck all around.

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But I mean, was that the majority of your interest in going electric car was at first,
what that kind of like Delta in cost or were there other kind of uh aspects of it that

194
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kind of drew you to having electric car, uh, kind of more for driving around instead just
the diesel truck.

195
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Yeah, for me, was really, it was honestly a cost factor.

196
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And I mean, I all drive typically, you know, 40, 45,000 miles a year sometimes just
depends on, know, and that's, and that's kind of combined and that's, know, for work or

197
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for, for, you know, going to the kids, uh, high school basketball games or, football or
volleyball games and all that and such.

198
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And so for me, just looking at the number of miles I drove,

199
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uh And what it was costing me to do that and so that was that was the big factor for me I
think you know when I was looking and Steve tried talking to me and he's like uh You know

200
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get it get something a little newer and I was like I don't know I I just not sure if this
is gonna work for me and I kind of want to limit my expense or you know getting in and uh

201
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When I found the used I found that used Tesla Model 3

202
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uh And then you hear it, know about the batteries and you know certain life left and so
this particular car still had some warranty left on the batteries and you know So it kind

203
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of gave me this comfort level and I think the other piece for me was the federal tax
credit, you know It knocked four thousand dollars off basically the hood at the dealership

204
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for that car and so it was originally priced at 24 950 and

205
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and I got out the door, you know, 21,000 bucks basically for this, this used car.

206
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And I remember when I first got back to town with it, uh, one of my, one of my, uh, buddy
farmer guys, he's like, Oh, it's pretty nice driving a $60,000 car.

207
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And like, dude, it's a $20,000 car and he couldn't believe it.

208
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And, uh, and stuff.

209
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So for me, it was just as economics, you know, I mean,

210
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Robert, talk a little bit about the comparison of what it costs you to drive a pickup
truck 4,000 miles a month versus the EV.

211
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Yeah.

212
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I mean, just kind of some general factors.

213
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mean, we've, you know, we've part of this, this program we're working on this EV math,
we've actually created a calculator so folks could go in and, kind of put their numbers in

214
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to see.

215
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And uh the thing that was in the back of my mind was with us living, you know, right on
the Columbia river.

216
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uh And we've, you know, I'm

217
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I'm one of the cooperative customers and in town, it's the PUD.

218
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We have some of the least expensive uh energy, electrical energy rates around.

219
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But yet if you go to the diesel pump or the fuel pump, seems like we may be the highest,
you know, a high in the higher category uh in the region anyways, on the price of liquid

220
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fuels.

221
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So that kind of always stuck in the back of my mind.

222
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I always kind of thought, boy, why aren't we, why aren't we looking at this, you know,
kind of out in these areas that have, you

223
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a low cost electrical price.

224
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It seems like we have an advantage there.

225
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um so, um you know, mean, driving the car, it's, you we're talking two different vehicles.

226
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We're talking a four by four diesel truck versus a, uh you know, four door sedan car.

227
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But it cost me two to three cents a mile to drive that Tesla car versus, you know, 17, 20.

228
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plus cents a mile to drive that diesel pickup.

229
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And then the other factor is, I don't know if you've looked at the price of diesel pickups
lately, but they're quite expensive.

230
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And a lot of times I was driving, you know, from the Dalles to Portland or to Salem or to
Pendleton or Tri-Cities to have a meeting.

231
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I didn't necessarily need to drive a four-wheel drive diesel pickup to go get me where I
needed to go.

232
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And so I've, for years and years, I've always driven a pickup.

233
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And so was quite a change for me to drive a car, know, sitting down low and stuff.

234
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And I've gotten used to it now, but boy, it was quite a quite a factor there at first.

235
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But ah I mean, I, you know, I'm I'm driving this car for probably, you know, a fifth or a
sixth or an eighth of what it cost me to drive that diesel pickup.

236
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And so ah and I guess the other factor is

237
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for me anyways was the charging infrastructure.

238
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Because I can charge at home real easy.

239
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It wasn't a problem with that.

240
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On the farm I live on, I've got several 220 outlets that they originally put in for like
welding outlets and such.

241
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And so, I mean, I've got a number of locations at my property where I can charge.

242
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It's not an issue whatsoever.

243
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But I was more concerned if I need to go to Pendleton and back, do I have enough range and
where would I charge?

244
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seen with going to Salem and back and stuff.

245
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And the one thing I found quickly with the Tesla car is the charging infrastructure is
there.

246
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And so, I mean, you kind of find your spots where you like to charge, you know, and I
haven't had any issues with that.

247
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The only, you know, there's been a couple of locations where the kids have had a
basketball game, you know, out like by spray or out in the

248
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you know, a pretty remote area and I can get there.

249
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just don't know if I can get home.

250
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And so, you know, usually that's in the middle of winter.

251
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So I might take the diesel pickup for that, but all other times, you know, just driving
this, driving this car for the most part.

252
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And I almost think I'm trying to overwork the car sometimes.

253
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you know, I'm frequently, you know, part of my,

254
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job or whatever, be, I'll do pump evaluations or be working on a piece of equipment or
something.

255
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And so I've always got the car loaded with tools or equipment or that type of thing.

256
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Um, you know, here last week, we took it down into bend and central Oregon.

257
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And of course, you know, you got to stop at Costco and, know, get a couple of big bags of
dog food and all the goods in there and stuff.

258
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And, and, so, I mean, I definitely put the car to work.

259
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and I mean, that's just.

260
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Kind of what you do when you live out in the country.

261
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mean, live essentially out in the middle of the wheat field, my closest neighbors over a
mile away.

262
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And so when you go to town, you got to get supplies, I guess, and stuff.

263
00:25:07,822 --> 00:25:14,269
I don't give it light use and I drive it on a daily basis uh and stuff.

264
00:25:14,269 --> 00:25:21,125
But again, the cost factor for me and just what it costs to drive the car is the main
reason I pursued it.

265
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Yeah, it's kind of funny.

266
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mean, I'm not hitting 45,000 miles a year, but usually I'm doing about 25 to 30,000
easily.

267
00:25:30,247 --> 00:25:36,827
And it's interesting because for me, there was a financial incentive of kind of getting
rid of gas.

268
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But I think the thing that really stood out to me was oil changes.

269
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I've changed my own oil in the past, but especially when I was living either in Bend or
even kind of closer to Portland area, I would usually just go to the one that like

270
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difficult loop things and the cost of that, but also the time trade off is like, okay,
that takes, I mean, I was doing every couple of weeks and I'm sure it's probably the same

271
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if not more for you.

272
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And that becomes such like a time savings and just like one less kind of that maintenance
and cost of trying to run it.

273
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I mean, you're saying you do about 45,000 miles a year.

274
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Are you seeing now like two thirds of that are in the EV or do you know roughly kind of
how much of that you've moved away from the truck?

275
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Yeah, I would say probably 85 % of my driving's in the car.

276
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and then I still use the truck a fair amount, but usually I'm only using the truck when I
need to tow a trailer, I need to haul stuff heavy.

277
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Otherwise, it's so easy to drive the car.

278
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I mean, it just, especially, know how many times I go to downtown Portland and try to park
a pickup truck.

279
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I mean, that's, that's even if it's a half ton, you're like F 150 or something, it's, uh,
it's tough.

280
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And now you can just wheel in there and car makes a lot easier.

281
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So there's some, you know, kind of hidden, hidden things and it's different type of
vehicle, but I would, I would still say, you know, the majority of the time, uh, I'll

282
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choose to drive the car.

283
00:27:07,979 --> 00:27:10,479
It's really great for my mom lives in the Dalles.

284
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And so just to, you know, jet in and see her and check on her and see what she's up to, it
just super easy to hop in that car and go in and come.

285
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Stuff and you'd mentioned the oil changes well the oil change for a diesel pickup is
usually three or four hundred dollars kind of depends on what all you need done and So I

286
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mean that's a that's a huge savings just that alone.

287
00:27:30,361 --> 00:27:40,860
uh I I don't know I kind of like the fact to I mean with us, know on the Columbia River
here You know, I can look and see the hydro dam and know that hey my power is made right

288
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there You know, so when I talk about local local sourced energy and and stuff and

289
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and everything.

290
00:27:48,126 --> 00:27:49,102
But yeah.

291
00:27:50,025 --> 00:27:51,466
No, that's a good point too.

292
00:27:51,466 --> 00:27:52,636
I'm trying to add solar.

293
00:27:52,636 --> 00:27:54,277
We're kind of redoing our house.

294
00:27:54,277 --> 00:27:57,039
so solar is definitely a big one, but you're right.

295
00:27:57,039 --> 00:28:02,942
if you're coming from an environmental standpoint here in the Gorge, it's like, okay, it's
either hydro or wind.

296
00:28:02,942 --> 00:28:04,575
You can't really feel that bad about it.

297
00:28:04,575 --> 00:28:11,767
And for me personally, it's just, I'm the big enough nerd to want to do it and have kind
of that self reliance or any issue because of a grid problem.

298
00:28:11,767 --> 00:28:15,529
But no, I think that's really great to hear.

299
00:28:15,529 --> 00:28:20,091
um Steve, was there something you wanted to jump in and say there?

300
00:28:20,521 --> 00:28:33,520
Well, I just wanted to point out, and we won't go into a lot of detail, but Robert's story
is really compelling, but on the evmath.org site, there are nine other stories of nine

301
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other rural Oregon households.

302
00:28:37,213 --> 00:28:38,954
And some of the stories are just amazing.

303
00:28:38,954 --> 00:28:45,598
One in particular I love, and that's the story of a woman named Brandy McNamee.

304
00:28:45,679 --> 00:28:49,691
She married a fifth generation rancher in Antelope.

305
00:28:50,105 --> 00:29:00,648
and took her three years to convince him that they should trade in their Ford, I think
it's an Expedition or something, uh for an electric vehicle.

306
00:29:00,668 --> 00:29:06,409
And her husband's a trained diesel mechanic, but she eventually wore him down.

307
00:29:06,409 --> 00:29:19,753
now, you know, they have, they actually ended up leasing a Tesla Model Y, and they use it
to take their own three kids and a neighboring family's three kids.

308
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to the bus stop and back because the bus stop is like, I don't know, like 20 miles away or
something.

309
00:29:26,182 --> 00:29:28,483
Anyway, and she does that every day.

310
00:29:29,865 --> 00:29:37,380
But it's gotten to the point where her husband loves the car as much as she does and he
drives it around the ranch during the day.

311
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So, I mean, this is a fifth generation ranching family and they are saving more on fuel
every month than the lease is costing them.

312
00:29:46,483 --> 00:29:48,334
And think Robert's in the same boat, right?

313
00:29:48,334 --> 00:29:55,697
I I think you've said you financed your vehicle and the fuel savings are more than the
cost of the monthly payment.

314
00:29:55,697 --> 00:30:07,432
And we're seeing this with rural households all around Oregon that the fuel savings in
some cases uh outweighs the cost of the vehicle itself.

315
00:30:07,432 --> 00:30:13,185
So they're literally like making money by having another vehicle instead of just driving
around the old.

316
00:30:13,801 --> 00:30:18,622
Ford Expedition or diesel pickup truck that they used to be driving for everything.

317
00:30:18,783 --> 00:30:28,556
And the other part of this that Robert sort of mentioned with the hydropower, I mean, it's
almost like an economic development strategy for rural areas, right?

318
00:30:28,556 --> 00:30:37,909
Instead of all that money for fuel going out of the community, the money to charge these
vehicles really stays in the community at the local utility.

319
00:30:38,195 --> 00:30:46,056
I think that's super important and obviously it leaves a lot of money in people's pockets
as well that they can spend on other things other than fueling their vehicle.

320
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I don't know.

321
00:30:47,018 --> 00:30:53,667
I just encourage folks, if you're interested, to check out the site, read some of these
stories, watch a couple of the videos.

322
00:30:53,667 --> 00:30:55,767
They're really inspiring.

323
00:30:56,754 --> 00:31:06,661
And I think it's kind of interesting what you mentioned, Robert, that I don't think most
people fully appreciate about the cost of gas and diesel in more rural areas.

324
00:31:06,661 --> 00:31:12,705
And they don't take into account the fact that it is a lot more expensive usually because
of the additional transportation cost.

325
00:31:12,825 --> 00:31:15,999
And so many of the times, yeah, there are PUDs out here.

326
00:31:15,999 --> 00:31:22,939
And I'm always consistently surprised by how cheap electricity is in the Northwest in
general.

327
00:31:22,939 --> 00:31:29,099
know it's going up, but we still pay so much less than so many other parts of the country.

328
00:31:29,099 --> 00:31:36,439
Even if you're on PG or Pacific power, and then you get onto a PUD and it'll be like a
third of that even.

329
00:31:36,999 --> 00:31:42,399
And so I think that is a really interesting part of kind of like the whole EV math kind of
concept.

330
00:31:42,639 --> 00:31:43,903
Because I mean,

331
00:31:43,903 --> 00:31:52,463
The gas car I had replaced our EV with a few years ago, speaking to what Steve's about,
pretty much was that same deal.

332
00:31:52,463 --> 00:32:03,803
I was getting about almost 30 miles a gallon in that thing, but I was driving so much and
even just buying regular gas, it was pretty much breaking even, especially once I figured

333
00:32:03,803 --> 00:32:05,743
in oil changes.

334
00:32:05,743 --> 00:32:11,643
had a much nicer car and I was paying less.

335
00:32:11,775 --> 00:32:18,635
What one of the other things you also mentioned there Robert, I think it's really
fascinating is the utility of an electric vehicle.

336
00:32:20,035 --> 00:32:25,775
I think this first, I had this first experience and this was kind of a wild one back in
20.

337
00:32:26,275 --> 00:32:33,335
I I've been impressed with a lot of electric vehicles because of the storage in them, but
I think this is back in 2015 2016.

338
00:32:33,395 --> 00:32:41,463
There was a start buzz working for in the Bay and the company car we had because we were
doing some kind of R &D on it was a Model S.

339
00:32:41,521 --> 00:32:50,427
And we had to go to Home Depot to buy a bunch of materials for our, to set up this office
garage space.

340
00:32:50,427 --> 00:32:52,919
It was a couple thousand foot garage.

341
00:32:53,019 --> 00:33:06,568
And I went in and we had to go buy some, we had to buy both, I think three doors and I
want to say four wood saw horses.

342
00:33:06,689 --> 00:33:10,211
And we got all of those after we fold down the seats in this model.

343
00:33:10,399 --> 00:33:12,419
And we fold down the seats.

344
00:33:12,419 --> 00:33:16,779
got four doors, the three doors, four sawhorses.

345
00:33:16,779 --> 00:33:23,379
And I forgot whatever else we had bought at Home Depot all into this one car, even without
like having to put anything on the rack.

346
00:33:23,379 --> 00:33:30,879
And obviously the Model S is like a bigger car, but I'm, I'm consistently surprised by
like just the inherent utility, the utility.

347
00:33:30,879 --> 00:33:32,539
And I think that's what most people don't realize.

348
00:33:32,539 --> 00:33:38,751
I mean, I think growing up in a more rural area, it's like, um, you see, I mean, the
Northwest is a little bit different, but

349
00:33:38,751 --> 00:33:44,111
It's pretty common to see either a big, uh, digital truck, the F three 50 or something.

350
00:33:44,111 --> 00:33:52,251
And then like a Subaru outback and as for as much, uh, crap as a Subaru gets a Subaru
outback, it's an incredible utilitarian car.

351
00:33:52,251 --> 00:33:55,351
Uh, and so there's kind of a reason you to see these things out there every now and then.

352
00:33:55,351 --> 00:34:02,991
And I think just with kind of the layout of like a model three or some others where you
have the front, have all these just spaces, whether it's you're going to hit.

353
00:34:02,991 --> 00:34:04,911
I mean, this even happened to me the other day.

354
00:34:04,911 --> 00:34:09,047
We forgot to get dog food and yeah, I'd get a couple of 50 pound bag and I just threw in
the back.

355
00:34:09,343 --> 00:34:12,643
not even an issue at all and ran some other and didn't even think about it.

356
00:34:12,643 --> 00:34:21,583
And then when it got a bunch of, I had to get some ground cover, some clover, and I threw
that in the bag and I didn't even think about it.

357
00:34:21,583 --> 00:34:26,023
And then my neighbor sees me taking all this stuff out of the car and they're like, where,
where, where did you go?

358
00:34:26,023 --> 00:34:26,983
was like, oh, I here, I there.

359
00:34:26,983 --> 00:34:31,703
And then he's got a, I mean, admittedly, could obviously fit after you went dodge.

360
00:34:31,703 --> 00:34:37,439
I think it's got a 2,500 and he just couldn't believe all the stuff I had just, and I even
like, I was even trying to.

361
00:34:37,439 --> 00:34:40,299
prioritize where I put this, I just knew it fit in there.

362
00:34:40,299 --> 00:34:51,459
And I think there's just a lot of utilitarian advantages to like electric vehicle platform
for more rural areas that, um, that there, I think there's two elements, like in some ways

363
00:34:51,459 --> 00:35:01,899
it's, think someone in a growing up in a more rural area, they're surprised electric
vehicle can be so utilitarian, but I think someone probably growing up in a more, uh,

364
00:35:01,899 --> 00:35:05,961
urbanized area don't realize or appreciate how important that

365
00:35:05,961 --> 00:35:09,536
having a utilitarian vehicle is when you're in a more rural area.

366
00:35:09,536 --> 00:35:15,564
And I think that's just what's always consistently impressed me with like an electric
vehicle platform is just how much stuff you can get in one.

367
00:35:15,986 --> 00:35:23,075
And you can do other kinds of trips that normally you wouldn't be able to do in like a
sedan or a small crossover even.

368
00:35:23,665 --> 00:35:36,109
Yeah, and I even forget that we have the frunk and put items in there ah until I've
exceeded the capacity of what I can fit with the seats folded down on the rear end of the

369
00:35:36,109 --> 00:35:37,559
car and stuff.

370
00:35:37,559 --> 00:35:49,559
But yeah, one other thing I was going to mention too that kind of came to mind was, I
don't know how many times previously I would need to go someplace early in the morning and

371
00:35:49,559 --> 00:35:51,343
I hadn't fueled up.

372
00:35:51,635 --> 00:36:00,359
and I have to wait till the local fuel station opened before I could leave, know, so I'm
down there at eight o'clock waiting and I really should have left at seven or six thirty

373
00:36:00,359 --> 00:36:05,601
ah because I, you know, was busy the day before and forgot to get fuel.

374
00:36:05,601 --> 00:36:09,603
And that's the one thing to discharge from home.

375
00:36:09,603 --> 00:36:18,506
mean, it just it's I can, you know, get up in the morning and take off and I've got my
full tank of fuel already to go and and stuff.

376
00:36:18,506 --> 00:36:20,723
And it takes a little bit of getting used to because

377
00:36:20,723 --> 00:36:30,463
You it seems like traditionally, whether it's a tractor, a pickup, it's like you get ready
to go someplace, you fuel before you leave, you know, so you leave at the full tank.

378
00:36:30,463 --> 00:36:37,983
Um, but that's the fueling stations, unless you have fuel on farm or on site are somewhat
limited in the rural areas.

379
00:36:37,983 --> 00:36:48,883
And up until just recently, our, local fuel station just got a, you know, a 24 hour card
lock type thing, but traditionally, you know, you could get fuel from 8 a.m.

380
00:36:48,883 --> 00:36:49,963
to 6 p.m.

381
00:36:49,963 --> 00:36:50,611
and.

382
00:36:50,611 --> 00:37:00,991
I don't know how many times I've got up in the morning and left at, you know, five o'clock
or six o'clock in the morning thinking, man, I'm so glad I can leave on a fuel tank, a

383
00:37:00,991 --> 00:37:01,411
full tank.

384
00:37:01,411 --> 00:37:05,971
And I didn't have to, you know, stress about making sure I got fuel the night before and
everything.

385
00:37:05,971 --> 00:37:08,731
And that's just from the ability to charge at home.

386
00:37:08,731 --> 00:37:14,111
And so just a little bit of different, you know, a different setup as a result and stuff.

387
00:37:14,111 --> 00:37:18,995
And so I think if you can charge at home, it's even that much more of an advantage.

388
00:37:18,995 --> 00:37:30,755
it feels to me and I hope that some of the technology that we're working on here in the
soon to come with the vehicle to grid and the bi-directional charging because we've looked

389
00:37:30,755 --> 00:37:36,175
at that a lot on how we can use the vehicles to provide backup power for our homes.

390
00:37:37,315 --> 00:37:42,375
Especially when we look at the pickup trucks where they got the larger battery capacity.

391
00:37:42,435 --> 00:37:48,075
mean, just that factor alone to have a portable power plant that I can plug in and run.

392
00:37:48,531 --> 00:37:59,531
If it's my smoke, if it's my booster pump for my house and my internet refrigerator, you
know, even limited things, but I look forward to those days and the technologies, you

393
00:37:59,531 --> 00:38:00,971
know, I think it's there.

394
00:38:00,971 --> 00:38:07,071
Um, it's just a matter of, uh, I think it's evolving a little bit, but just another big
advantage in my mind.

395
00:38:07,071 --> 00:38:13,151
Uh, cause like at my house, you know, I don't, if I don't have any power, I don't have, I
don't have any cell phone coverage.

396
00:38:13,151 --> 00:38:14,611
So I have no communication.

397
00:38:14,611 --> 00:38:15,371
have no internet.

398
00:38:15,371 --> 00:38:16,291
have no water.

399
00:38:16,291 --> 00:38:18,163
have no, you know,

400
00:38:18,163 --> 00:38:20,103
no refrigeration or anything else.

401
00:38:20,103 --> 00:38:29,363
And so it's kind of a big deal, especially in fire season for us to try to make sure
you've got some services because a lot of times you're on your own if there is a fire

402
00:38:29,363 --> 00:38:32,003
event or what have you and stuff.

403
00:38:32,003 --> 00:38:42,783
And so I just kind of wanted to mention a few of those other factors I guess I've thought
about and considered that are beyond the economics, I think, of these vehicles.

404
00:38:43,444 --> 00:38:44,877
you know, oh

405
00:38:44,941 --> 00:38:46,651
oh, what were you gonna say there, Stu?

406
00:38:46,651 --> 00:38:48,122
I was just going to pile onto that.

407
00:38:48,122 --> 00:38:57,950
You know, another factor for the McNamies, this ranching family out of Antelope, the
closest fuel for them is 40 miles away.

408
00:38:57,950 --> 00:39:00,062
The closest fuel pump, right?

409
00:39:00,062 --> 00:39:11,240
And now Brandy gets up every morning and she's got a full battery with close to 300 miles
of range and doesn't have to worry about driving 40 miles to go get a full tank of gas,

410
00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:12,373
you know, or

411
00:39:12,373 --> 00:39:27,513
And they probably, I don't know about, a lot of ranches have fuel tanks on site, they
don't, if that fuel tank is empty, they don't have to go 40 miles into town to get a tank

412
00:39:27,513 --> 00:39:28,533
of gas.

413
00:39:29,343 --> 00:39:37,203
Yeah, that was actually going to be one of the things I mentioned too, because I drive
down to Bend now probably every other week from here in the gorge.

414
00:39:37,203 --> 00:39:41,823
And I usually go right past Robert going right through Dufour and Moppen.

415
00:39:41,823 --> 00:39:50,703
And there's some pretty good stretches that when I've driven in our gas car, that if
you're not really thinking ahead, yeah, you can kind of run into an issue or you kind of

416
00:39:50,703 --> 00:39:55,283
have to really hyper mile it to get to the next gas station.

417
00:39:55,283 --> 00:39:58,751
There's been a couple of times I've rolled into Madras, which is a pretty

418
00:39:58,751 --> 00:39:59,731
pretty much count.

419
00:39:59,731 --> 00:40:10,936
I wouldn't say in the middle, but it's kind in the middle of, uh, or I'm sorry, mopping
kind of in between Madras and getting over to the Dell, they're do for, uh, where there's

420
00:40:10,936 --> 00:40:13,293
kind of like a last gas station for a while.

421
00:40:13,293 --> 00:40:16,586
And there's been a couple of times exactly that I'm rolling it like 10 or midnight.

422
00:40:16,586 --> 00:40:19,478
It's either closed or they're out of gas or other issues like that.

423
00:40:19,478 --> 00:40:23,392
And now I just drive straight from here to Ben without even thinking about charge.

424
00:40:23,392 --> 00:40:27,755
Once I get down and Ben right at the place I'm staying at and,

425
00:40:28,359 --> 00:40:30,020
That to me just unlocks so much.

426
00:40:30,020 --> 00:40:39,737
mean, that story exactly you're telling about Steve is like, there's so many places,
especially like, think, um, as someone who lived in Portland for decade, there's

427
00:40:39,737 --> 00:40:42,208
definitely a lot of I-5 mentality.

428
00:40:42,449 --> 00:40:53,456
And as someone who's kind of like grown out east of that, you get out to like Primeville
or there's a lot of places just in other parts of the state where, um, yeah, you, could be

429
00:40:53,456 --> 00:40:57,907
easily 40 miles or more to the closest gas station or

430
00:40:57,907 --> 00:41:05,941
depending on the time of year, especially if you get propane or gas and you get a bad
storm or something, it might delayed another week or two before you can get that.

431
00:41:05,941 --> 00:41:10,773
So I think there's a lot of really cool use cases that electrification unlocks.

432
00:41:10,773 --> 00:41:16,035
I think, yeah, speaking of that vehicle to grid thing, I mean, that's been a really big
thing I've been interested in too.

433
00:41:16,035 --> 00:41:23,429
I would love to see more of the smaller vehicles in Lockheed, but especially when you get
to like those larger battery pack sizes and you're in the hundred kilowatt hour plus

434
00:41:23,429 --> 00:41:24,349
range.

435
00:41:24,447 --> 00:41:28,547
Maybe not vehicle to grid, but at least vehicle to home kind of setups.

436
00:41:29,347 --> 00:41:34,447
And some of the trucks that at least have the power outlets right there that you can
leverage is such a big game changer.

437
00:41:34,687 --> 00:41:37,267
I'm kind of curious, Robert, on your experience.

438
00:41:37,267 --> 00:41:46,927
I think we can talk about the vehicle to home as well, but you obviously now drive kind of
the daily, the Tesla Model 3, but you've used the Rivian, you've kind of been exposed to

439
00:41:46,927 --> 00:41:48,727
Ford F-150 Lightning.

440
00:41:50,347 --> 00:41:52,227
For your needs,

441
00:41:52,447 --> 00:42:01,787
Do you still kind of prefer having kind of like the Model 3 and then maybe there's like
the S or the truck has some advantages here and there for the farm light?

442
00:42:01,787 --> 00:42:07,991
We're like, how does, what style of EV right now fits the best into your life and your
experience, you think?

443
00:42:08,403 --> 00:42:09,143
Yeah.

444
00:42:09,143 --> 00:42:11,043
Well, that's a good question.

445
00:42:11,523 --> 00:42:18,163
I think probably my best suited would probably be one of the pickup trucks to be honest
with you.

446
00:42:18,163 --> 00:42:34,103
And because I'm, even though I say, you know, I use the diesel pickup to haul, I'm using
the car a lot to haul everything from livestock feed to dog food to, mean, to tools and

447
00:42:34,103 --> 00:42:34,743
stuff.

448
00:42:34,743 --> 00:42:36,293
And so I, you know, I

449
00:42:36,293 --> 00:42:43,828
I probably should be looking at a, you know, either the F-150 or the Chevy Silverado EV
probably would be the ideal.

450
00:42:43,828 --> 00:42:57,888
um But, you know, I think the cost factor, you know, getting into the Tesla Model 3 used
for, you know, the $20,000 mark, you know, is obviously a third of the price of getting

451
00:42:57,888 --> 00:42:59,329
into one of the pickups and stuff.

452
00:42:59,329 --> 00:43:04,753
And so for me, it was just, needed to dip my toe in the water and test it out, see if it
was going to work for me first.

453
00:43:04,755 --> 00:43:17,577
uh and But I think you know it would be nice to have four-wheel drive mine just my car
just a real real real drive um and so you know there's some factors about that, know kind

454
00:43:17,577 --> 00:43:21,600
of that country 11 where you Know we all would like four-wheel drive.

455
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:32,207
We'd all like kind of a little higher profile vehicle, you know or higher lifted vehicle
just for some of the stuff we have to drive on and those types of things and even

456
00:43:32,207 --> 00:43:34,648
even something as simple as the tires.

457
00:43:34,648 --> 00:43:37,989
know, I mean, we're driving a lot of gravel roads and stuff.

458
00:43:37,989 --> 00:43:45,151
know Brandy that Steve has mentioned out in Antelope, she actually went and got some
heavier duty tires for her Tesla.

459
00:43:45,151 --> 00:43:57,115
And I've had a couple of flats with the Tesla and you know, I'm driving it in places that
the typical Tesla owner probably isn't going to dare to go, you might say.

460
00:43:57,155 --> 00:44:04,090
And not that I'm abusing the car, just more of the gravel road type things that are harder
on the tires and such.

461
00:44:04,090 --> 00:44:08,097
It's more that country road, rougher roads and such.

462
00:44:11,647 --> 00:44:12,967
Well, and that's kind of interesting.

463
00:44:12,967 --> 00:44:21,847
I you, I get kind of what you're saying and there is an interesting trade off with the
electric pickups is just how damn heavy they are.

464
00:44:22,847 --> 00:44:31,607
And, and so like, there's been a couple I've looked at and I even know of a couple of
local small bridges that have like a 8,000 pound limit, which traditionally would have

465
00:44:31,607 --> 00:44:37,247
been really much of an issue, but you start getting to those like the Chevy Silverado or
something, you're like 1500 over.

466
00:44:38,303 --> 00:44:44,703
But I can't agree with you because yeah, I've taken both our three and our why I didn't
think ever any place that crazy.

467
00:44:44,703 --> 00:44:49,403
But then people like you took it where and it's just like, yeah, that's kind of where we
have to go.

468
00:44:49,403 --> 00:44:50,843
I mean, we do.

469
00:44:51,403 --> 00:44:55,843
We still have one gas vehicle and that's kind of our like actual off road adventure
vehicle.

470
00:44:55,843 --> 00:44:58,103
It's an old Land Rover Defender.

471
00:44:58,543 --> 00:45:07,463
But yeah, for the most part, I think 80 to 90 percent of time you can probably get it's
surprising how far you can get away with like a

472
00:45:07,463 --> 00:45:09,572
a crossover electric vehicle.

473
00:45:10,909 --> 00:45:15,863
Yeah, and I guess to talk about the range piece a little bit.

474
00:45:15,863 --> 00:45:27,531
mean, I think the very, you know, like I mentioned, my first real driving of electric
vehicle was the Rivian and then the F-150 Lightning and then the Tesla.

475
00:45:27,652 --> 00:45:35,137
And it is a factor, the range anxiety, because you're always worried about how far can I
go and where am I going to charge?

476
00:45:35,137 --> 00:45:37,839
uh you know, I think...

477
00:45:37,879 --> 00:45:40,980
I do always carry a portable charger with me.

478
00:45:40,980 --> 00:45:52,485
so, and that's one thing we found too, is oftentimes, you know, folks, it's like the
charging aspect of these vehicles, it seems like it's made to be more complex than it

479
00:45:52,485 --> 00:45:53,512
really needs to be.

480
00:45:53,512 --> 00:46:04,810
I guess if you're talking more level two type charging where if you had a two nut let and,
and I remember, I just remember one time uh me and one of my coworkers took the Rivian

481
00:46:04,810 --> 00:46:06,531
pickup truck out to

482
00:46:06,707 --> 00:46:11,207
Christmas Valley and we went to a hay growers meeting out there.

483
00:46:11,207 --> 00:46:15,467
do a lot of work in the agriculture space around energy projects and stuff.

484
00:46:15,607 --> 00:46:20,287
And the hay growers out there were kind of chuckling at us and they said, well, how are
you guys getting home?

485
00:46:20,287 --> 00:46:21,827
And we're going to drive home.

486
00:46:21,827 --> 00:46:26,807
And we had no issues getting out there and back with the, with the vehicles.

487
00:46:26,807 --> 00:46:31,731
But, you know, I mean, we kind of go prepared to, and I always figured if I needed, you
know, I could.

488
00:46:31,731 --> 00:46:34,471
You know, we know a lot of the farmers and ranchers across the state.

489
00:46:34,471 --> 00:46:38,551
And so we could call one of them and ask if we could plug in their shop for a little bit.

490
00:46:38,551 --> 00:46:43,091
They wouldn't let us live it down, but we're not going to get stranded either type of
thing.

491
00:46:43,091 --> 00:46:47,091
So yeah, but I think range anxiety is real in it.

492
00:46:47,131 --> 00:46:54,691
I remember talking to Steve initially and you know, his experiences, cause it seemed like
he drove his car, you know, wherever he wanted to go.

493
00:46:54,811 --> 00:46:59,031
And, the, technology and the vehicles helps with that.

494
00:46:59,031 --> 00:47:01,371
You got to build some trust with it too.

495
00:47:01,459 --> 00:47:11,139
and stuff and I think I'm at the level now, you know, I've had this Tesla for about a year
and I'm at the level where I've got pretty good trust with it that I know I'm going to get

496
00:47:11,139 --> 00:47:12,519
where I want to go.

497
00:47:12,519 --> 00:47:23,079
I know where the different stations are that I want to use and stuff, but it definitely
takes some trust because there isn't necessarily a charging station on every corner or

498
00:47:23,079 --> 00:47:31,315
every small town, you know, like a fuel station would be or, know, to get, you know,
walking down the road with the gas jug, it's kind of hard to...

499
00:47:31,315 --> 00:47:36,655
a little bit more challenging to do with an electric car if you get stranded or what have
you.

500
00:47:37,151 --> 00:47:37,751
for sure.

501
00:47:37,751 --> 00:47:46,551
I think that kind of plays to when I was talking about the i-5 mentality, because I mean,
just until maybe, it's maybe it's been a little more than two years ago before they put

502
00:47:46,551 --> 00:47:49,111
that supercharger in madras in.

503
00:47:49,111 --> 00:47:57,611
But really before that, and other than that one, there really hasn't been much off 97 or
many of these other kind of rural highway or 197 even.

504
00:47:59,031 --> 00:48:07,031
it was something I want to ask you, I guess kind of playing around that because I think
that's actually one of the speaking at range, that's one of the under

505
00:48:07,039 --> 00:48:14,542
appreciated things when someone's going in to buy like their first electric vehicle is
like efficiency of a vehicle.

506
00:48:14,542 --> 00:48:24,897
I love a lot of the big EV trucks and I just like trucks in general, but like the Model 3
and Model Y, especially the Model 3, that thing can just keep driving and driving and it's

507
00:48:24,897 --> 00:48:34,783
like so much more efficient because I mean, obviously it's a smaller car unto itself, but
um I've just found like that

508
00:48:34,783 --> 00:48:40,303
It you kind of under a pre you see, yeah, it's got like 400 miles of range or something on
some of these trucks.

509
00:48:40,303 --> 00:48:47,003
And then like you actually start driving it and it's like, well, in this situation, yes,
it's 400 miles, but in reality it's this.

510
00:48:47,343 --> 00:48:56,203
And I I've just found like there is kind of a, uh, underutilize or underappreciated like
value in a really efficient small vehicle.

511
00:48:56,203 --> 00:49:04,103
But I think that's kind of why the model three is kind of all around almost pocket knife
kind of vehicle, uh, or like Swiss army knives kind of vehicle.

512
00:49:04,447 --> 00:49:13,327
But I'm kind of curious in your experience, because something I've been noticing when I'm
doing a lot of these big drives into more rural areas is, I'm sure like a DC fast charger

513
00:49:13,327 --> 00:49:16,987
or a fast charger along the way wouldn't say no to it by any means.

514
00:49:16,987 --> 00:49:26,387
But I found a lot of the time I wouldn't even have to stop at a DC fast charger if the
place I was going to just at a level two charger, it probably would have been enough to

515
00:49:26,387 --> 00:49:29,327
just have my meeting and then either top off or whatever.

516
00:49:29,327 --> 00:49:33,907
I could easily make it 100, 200 miles back without ever even having to stop at a charger.

517
00:49:33,939 --> 00:49:40,704
And I think that is something where there's so many headlines about DC fast chargers and
obviously they're great to have.

518
00:49:40,704 --> 00:49:45,647
But especially when you start getting these more rural areas, you're usually out of the
car for so long.

519
00:49:45,647 --> 00:49:54,924
as long as, and once again, that's kind of the advantage of a smaller car is it has such a
bigger impact on how far it can go versus sometimes the truck of like plug into a level

520
00:49:54,924 --> 00:49:55,444
two chart.

521
00:49:55,444 --> 00:50:02,591
I'm just kind of curious with your experience, have you noticed that as well or are you,
do you want to see DC fast chargers?

522
00:50:02,591 --> 00:50:05,491
all along 97 and Eastern Oregon in general.

523
00:50:05,907 --> 00:50:09,507
Yeah, I would agree with you on that.

524
00:50:10,467 --> 00:50:15,387
you hear everybody wants a DC fast charger.

525
00:50:15,387 --> 00:50:20,287
But in reality, we can do a lot of the charging with level two.

526
00:50:20,827 --> 00:50:27,347
And in a lot of cases, the power is available to enable this to do that.

527
00:50:28,327 --> 00:50:29,809
And I think

528
00:50:29,809 --> 00:50:33,531
you know, looking for like the destination chargers, those types of things.

529
00:50:33,531 --> 00:50:45,844
And just a couple of examples I'm thinking of is I remember I had some meetings going on
in Bend and I had a drive from Dewford down to Bend and ah my daughter had a home

530
00:50:45,844 --> 00:50:46,746
basketball game.

531
00:50:46,746 --> 00:50:48,677
And so I couldn't leave here till late.

532
00:50:48,677 --> 00:50:51,588
It was in like February, this most recent February.

533
00:50:51,588 --> 00:50:56,460
And I remember I got down to the hotel and in Bend and I really never looked to see what
charging.

534
00:50:56,460 --> 00:50:57,310
just knew I run Bend.

535
00:50:57,310 --> 00:50:58,190
There'd be some charging.

536
00:50:58,190 --> 00:50:59,731
So wasn't too worried about it.

537
00:50:59,731 --> 00:51:06,071
And I got down there late and most of the parking lot was full and there was only a couple
of empty spots.

538
00:51:06,131 --> 00:51:11,071
And one of two of the spots were actually a Tesla destination chargers.

539
00:51:11,071 --> 00:51:14,031
And I'm like, Oh my God, I'm the luckiest guy in the world.

540
00:51:14,031 --> 00:51:19,871
And I just backed in and I just plugged in and I was there for a day and a half at a
conference.

541
00:51:19,871 --> 00:51:28,113
I mean, obviously the next morning, my car was fully charged, but, um, you know,
definitely, um, you know, like the, pickups and stuff you're getting about.

542
00:51:28,113 --> 00:51:34,487
to somewhere around two miles per kilowatt hour and then the small three I'm getting
closer to four.

543
00:51:34,487 --> 00:51:39,169
So almost double the distance with the same amount of energy.

544
00:51:39,169 --> 00:51:43,351
And so I think, you know, again, that is you're driving these longer distances.

545
00:51:43,351 --> 00:51:54,750
If you don't need that heavier duty pickup or vehicle, definitely, know, essentially in
that case, if a pickup takes two miles per kilowatt hour and this car is taking, you know,

546
00:51:54,750 --> 00:51:57,899
getting four, you're getting twice the mileage and stuff.

547
00:51:58,059 --> 00:52:07,786
The other thing I was kind of chuckling about the other day I was thinking about is quite
a few of the local people, at least in our area, uh that drive quite a ways from work.

548
00:52:07,786 --> 00:52:18,103
Traditionally, what they would, several of our local guys would do is they'd go out and
try to find like a used Volkswagen TDI, you know, turbo diesel, getting 40 miles uh a

549
00:52:18,103 --> 00:52:20,975
gallon and uh then drive that.

550
00:52:20,975 --> 00:52:27,923
And just thinking about, well, this is the new TDI mileage vehicle, you know, for those
folks that are driving.

551
00:52:27,923 --> 00:52:32,108
80 miles round trip or 100 miles round trip for work type of thing.

552
00:52:32,249 --> 00:52:33,841
But yet you can fuel it at home.

553
00:52:33,841 --> 00:52:43,603
just to, know, some of the higher mileage cars have been around, I guess fuel mileage cars
have been around in these rural areas and stuff for years.

554
00:52:43,603 --> 00:52:46,947
This is just kind of a next generation of that.

555
00:52:48,207 --> 00:52:53,011
I think that's really funny you mentioned that because I've definitely known people who do
that as well.

556
00:52:53,572 --> 00:52:55,724
When I was growing up, the thing was like the old Metrogeo.

557
00:52:55,724 --> 00:53:00,708
was just like the ugliest pieces of junk, but they would just keep going forever.

558
00:53:00,708 --> 00:53:04,000
And they barely used any gas.

559
00:53:04,607 --> 00:53:13,929
not only that, it is also just really interesting to see in the last few years, you're
talking kind of like that four miles to kilowatt hour.

560
00:53:13,929 --> 00:53:16,017
I've been driving one the new Model 3s.

561
00:53:16,017 --> 00:53:21,200
And even the all wheel drive one, uh, going from like here to Ben, it gets close to five.

562
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:25,052
Like it's just crazy at how quickly that is.

563
00:53:25,052 --> 00:53:27,083
It's still, I mean, yeah.

564
00:53:27,083 --> 00:53:36,168
MPGs are kind of progressing and like the traditional fueling combustion engine space, but
it's also well to see that how quickly there is still advances being made.

565
00:53:36,168 --> 00:53:43,402
think, um, you and I, Robert, how many miles we drive least thing usually is a great
option.

566
00:53:43,402 --> 00:53:45,693
But I think for like people who.

567
00:53:45,693 --> 00:53:48,835
Don't hit, like keep it under 15,000 miles a year.

568
00:53:48,835 --> 00:53:52,928
Uh, that's where like the leasing thing actually does kind of make a lot of sense for
people.

569
00:53:52,928 --> 00:54:02,045
Cause some of these lease deals right now are just so cheap and you can get like that kind
of crazy efficiency out of them, especially if you're in a place where there's easy level

570
00:54:02,045 --> 00:54:03,336
to charter and you can charge at home.

571
00:54:03,336 --> 00:54:08,369
just, it really does become kind of the no brainer uh option.

572
00:54:09,009 --> 00:54:16,799
Yeah, that's, I think that's several of folks that Steve and I have talked to that had
pursued the lease options.

573
00:54:16,799 --> 00:54:31,429
And because the rate for the lease was, ah it was kind of surprisingly uh inexpensive and
they blend, know, the lease package includes the available tax credits that may be

574
00:54:31,429 --> 00:54:32,560
available.

575
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:36,763
And then it kind of factors everything together and, get into a brand new car.

576
00:54:36,883 --> 00:54:40,123
$300 range or what have you, it's electric.

577
00:54:40,703 --> 00:54:47,643
And then you're kind of limiting your exposure to the market and depreciation, some of
those other factors.

578
00:54:47,843 --> 00:54:52,823
And so I think it does definitely make sense for a lot of folks to look at that lease
option.

579
00:54:54,003 --> 00:55:01,491
For me, again, I was trying to limit my entry point, I guess, financially and knew that
I'm in this...

580
00:55:01,491 --> 00:55:03,371
knew that I'm going to put a lot of miles on.

581
00:55:03,371 --> 00:55:09,971
think one of the other questions I've asked a lot of people, like what, how many miles can
I expect to get out of this car?

582
00:55:09,971 --> 00:55:10,711
And like, what do mean?

583
00:55:10,711 --> 00:55:17,911
And I said, well, you know, it used to be, uh, you know, kind of traditional gas vehicle,
if you had a hundred thousand miles on it, that was quite a few miles.

584
00:55:17,911 --> 00:55:26,991
And I said, the gas vehicles, seems like, you know, 150, maybe even 200 miles or 200,000
miles, uh, would be a lot of miles.

585
00:55:26,991 --> 00:55:28,251
I said, what about the electric?

586
00:55:28,251 --> 00:55:29,707
You know, how is that?

587
00:55:29,797 --> 00:55:31,728
And I, you the number I've been told is 300,000.

588
00:55:31,728 --> 00:55:43,382
And so I'm kind of determined to see how many, if I can get 300,000 miles on this car,
mean, you know, I'm nowhere close to that yet, but, know, just thinking about what is the

589
00:55:43,382 --> 00:55:47,034
durability and the life expectancy of the car.

590
00:55:47,274 --> 00:55:54,647
Initially, I was, I was concerned about the battery life and I'm honestly really not
concerned about that now.

591
00:55:54,647 --> 00:55:56,558
I figure I'm a year into it.

592
00:55:56,558 --> 00:55:59,599
I, I've, you know, relatively know.

593
00:55:59,827 --> 00:56:07,647
degrading in the batteries on my car, I still get the same range and mileage that is when
I bought it a year ago and I've put several miles on it.

594
00:56:07,647 --> 00:56:18,747
And so it's going to be interesting to see, you know, the studies I've seen show where the
initial degraded batteries, kind of that first initial period is kind of follows the line

595
00:56:18,747 --> 00:56:22,147
and then it flattens out thinking that the battery is going to last a lot longer.

596
00:56:22,147 --> 00:56:26,851
But I know I get a lot of questions on that from my buddies and stuff.

597
00:56:26,851 --> 00:56:36,051
kind of one of the under another underappreciated thing about especially buying a used
electric vehicle is if you get used to driving that, especially in your case, I mean, a

598
00:56:36,051 --> 00:56:36,251
lot.

599
00:56:36,251 --> 00:56:44,951
mean, it's not just Tesla's, but a lot of them do have kind of extended powertrain
specifically warranties that make buying a used one for especially a new EV driver feel

600
00:56:44,951 --> 00:56:47,551
pretty comfortable about that exact question.

601
00:56:47,871 --> 00:56:49,031
But you're totally right.

602
00:56:49,031 --> 00:56:53,783
It's usually if you get like a vehicle spectrum, it's got like 30 or let alone 50,000
miles on it.

603
00:56:53,823 --> 00:56:58,323
Pretty much all of the majority of the degradation usually has already been done.

604
00:56:58,343 --> 00:57:07,963
And so if you can live within whatever that range is, when you get that used vehicle, you
really should be able to expect kind of a similar thing for out.

605
00:57:08,063 --> 00:57:15,183
I mean, yeah, I mean, I know of a couple of people personally that have already hit over
200,000 in their Model 3s.

606
00:57:15,183 --> 00:57:22,523
And so it just seems like the likelihood of being able to keep that experience and
enjoying that going is pretty likely.

607
00:57:22,847 --> 00:57:25,267
Steve, anything you want to add to that?

608
00:57:25,427 --> 00:57:35,751
Yeah, I was just going to say, you know, the one of the nice things about the EV math
site, I mean, it has all these anecdotes about these rural folks and how much they like

609
00:57:35,751 --> 00:57:36,822
their EVs.

610
00:57:36,822 --> 00:57:38,963
It has a really comprehensive FAQ.

611
00:57:38,963 --> 00:57:47,866
has a really intuitive calculator, but then it also links to uh a number of different sort
of shopping sites.

612
00:57:47,866 --> 00:57:53,689
And one of those is a site that is focused entirely on used vehicles.

613
00:57:53,689 --> 00:57:55,093
uh

614
00:57:55,093 --> 00:58:00,613
It's called findmyelectric.com.

615
00:58:00,733 --> 00:58:10,413
And these are like private party sales, but they also list used vehicles at dealerships.

616
00:58:10,413 --> 00:58:17,393
it's really a nice way to get a really broad cross-section of what used vehicles are
available in your area.

617
00:58:17,393 --> 00:58:21,141
think we're gonna, because something like 70 or 80 % of...

618
00:58:21,141 --> 00:58:23,785
car sales in the United States are actually used vehicles.

619
00:58:23,785 --> 00:58:34,319
And what we're trying to do is make it really easy for folks who might not have $60,000 to
buy a new EV to get into a used one like Robert did.

620
00:58:34,592 --> 00:58:39,065
Well, and I think that's a great call out because two things to follow up on that.

621
00:58:39,065 --> 00:58:42,477
Obviously, Robert, you were able to use the federal tax credit.

622
00:58:42,477 --> 00:58:45,920
I think the used one's also going away in the next couple of months.

623
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,872
But uh I mean, that was a year ago.

624
00:58:48,872 --> 00:58:55,646
I mean, in the past year, it's been wild to me to see how I mean, you're talking about a
new vehicle, Steve at 60.

625
00:58:55,646 --> 00:59:01,931
I mean, you can buy even new EVs now pretty easily in the 30s, let alone the used markets
really expand.

626
00:59:01,931 --> 00:59:02,889
mean, uh

627
00:59:02,889 --> 00:59:13,986
just the other day, this is definitely not the, to me it was like a tempting vehicle to
get because of the range, because you can get a like two year old Mercedes EQS, like what

628
00:59:13,986 --> 00:59:17,009
was a six figure vehicle for like 30 grand now.

629
00:59:17,009 --> 00:59:26,987
Now obviously when something goes wrong with that, that is going to be probably 30 grand,
but ah it's just wild that there are some pretty good deals on the used car market and

630
00:59:26,987 --> 00:59:28,016
it's been interesting to see.

631
00:59:28,016 --> 00:59:32,299
So I think there's a lot to be optimistic about even with some of those things going away.

632
00:59:32,299 --> 00:59:32,743
uh

633
00:59:32,743 --> 00:59:40,572
already seeing just more cost competitive vehicles on both the new and kind of used car
market for electric vehicles.

634
00:59:42,687 --> 00:59:46,871
uh I think with that, just want to say Steve and Robert, thank you both so much.

635
00:59:46,871 --> 00:59:48,913
I know we're kind of coming up at the end of our time here.

636
00:59:48,913 --> 00:59:54,959
Is there anything else either of you guys want to add to today's conversation before we
get going here?

637
00:59:56,883 --> 01:00:03,208
I want to say we're getting ready to release this EVMath program and website.

638
01:00:03,208 --> 01:00:06,491
so I would encourage folks, take a look.

639
01:00:06,491 --> 01:00:17,119
these are really we're trying to focus on the economics ah for folks with a focus in the
rural areas and everything.

640
01:00:17,119 --> 01:00:19,481
So go check that website out, EVMath.

641
01:00:19,481 --> 01:00:21,963
uh

642
01:00:21,981 --> 01:00:23,831
look at some of the case studies on there.

643
01:00:23,831 --> 01:00:30,238
And it's from folks throughout the of Oregon that live in rural areas that are part of
this project.

644
01:00:30,238 --> 01:00:31,870
There's this calculator on there too.

645
01:00:31,870 --> 01:00:39,927
So, know, encourage you to go plug your numbers in and kind of find out, you know, you can
put your electric rate, how much you pay for fuel and mileage and those, kind of, you

646
01:00:39,927 --> 01:00:48,614
know, generate a quick, you know, quick back of the napkin uh calculation on see if it
makes sense for you or not.

647
01:00:48,614 --> 01:00:49,715
So, and then...

648
01:00:50,043 --> 01:00:52,044
chat with folks that have an EV.

649
01:00:52,044 --> 01:00:59,334
Most of us, some of the most interesting conversations I have are at the charging stations
and I've been all kinds of go there and everything.

650
01:00:59,334 --> 01:01:02,938
yeah, just, you know, don't be afraid to explore it.

651
01:01:02,938 --> 01:01:04,510
I think it's my biggest thing.

652
01:01:04,510 --> 01:01:10,447
Cause I was a little reluctant myself initially and really happy I did pursue it.

653
01:01:12,159 --> 01:01:21,421
Yeah, no, I think that's a great point to it on because I'm, I think I'm always
consistently surprised by how many people think an EV won't work for them.

654
01:01:21,421 --> 01:01:25,052
And I think the two best things you can do are exactly that.

655
01:01:25,052 --> 01:01:28,783
Talk to people who have them and then to just kind of get butts in the seats.

656
01:01:29,003 --> 01:01:39,005
And right now, especially with a lot of different EV manufacturers, they're not only can
you do a test drive, you can sometimes do like a 48 hour or like weekend test drive to

657
01:01:39,005 --> 01:01:40,566
really see how it fits into your life.

658
01:01:40,566 --> 01:01:41,796
So I think.

659
01:01:42,804 --> 01:01:49,230
The first stop could be EVMath to kind of get some of those FAQs and kind of see the
cost-effective of how this works in.

660
01:01:49,230 --> 01:01:54,385
But we'll be sure to have today's, the links in today's show notes to access that.

661
01:01:54,385 --> 01:02:04,094
And I think from there, it's a great launching point to see how you can not only make an
EV work in your life, but how uh easy and effective and cost-efficient it is to get one in

662
01:02:04,094 --> 01:02:05,045
your life.

663
01:02:05,045 --> 01:02:08,207
with that, Steve and Robert, thank you so much for coming on today.

664
01:02:08,539 --> 01:02:10,002
Yeah, yeah, thanks for having us.