Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who
see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care.
I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.
I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people.
So come and join us for today's conversation.
Anke: Hello and welcome Krista.
I'm super excited to have you here.
Thank you so much for having me.
Can't wait to, to dive in.
So before we go, before we get into the topic, let people know where
in this lovely world are you and so what's your business with dogs?
Krista: Yes, absolutely.
Um, I am in the United States.
I'm in the Atlanta, Georgia area, and my business is the Unleashed Project where
really it's, it was born out of being passionate about our four legged family
members and wanting to help as many animals as possible, healthy, adoptable
animals, escape the fate that so many, you know, are now faced with and, um,
euthanasia and, and, um, The United States and then marrying that with my
love of strategy and systems and really follow through and sales and all those
pieces because I realized in my volunteer work that there's huge opportunities.
for bringing that kind of thinking into the animal welfare space.
And so the Unleashed project is really based on the idea that we want to
bring strategic thinking and creative problem solving and a whole heck of a
lot of compassion to this, this work that we have, which is really about.
Especially in the United States, transforming the entire industry and,
and doing it in a way that we are, I have all kinds of notes and flip charts
behind me of, you know, how to solve the, the overpopulation challenge we face.
But really the, the core note that I have on my dry race board is really
focusing on attacking the problem, not the person or the group, because that seems
to be so just, everybody's passionate.
And so it can be very much, my idea is right, your idea is wrong.
And there's just, I see lots of opportunities.
Anke: Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
And you know, I like, you know, the kind of what gets me super excited immediately
is this, how can we bring our skills experience and, and, and merge it with the
course that we're really passionate about.
So I love how you've done that because obviously we know each
other from a business context.
So this is like, wow, this is interesting that, you know, how you
bring this into this, into this world.
So if you say, talk about like, let's, let's attack the problem,
not the people or the group.
So how would you, you know, through the lens of the volunteer work you're doing,
like, what do you see as the problem?
How would you explain
Krista: that?
Yeah, well, and that's why I have, and again, and I'll show you sometime too,
the, the flip charts of kind of really trying to solve what is this core problem
that, that we're facing, you know, and I believe part of it, and again, speaking
for what I'm experiencing in the United States, in the South too, where a lot
of times people are, um, and I say this being a person that lives in the South,
just slower to adjust to different ways of thinking, you know, and so in
the South, a lot of times, you know, people look at animals as property.
Which is really a huge challenge.
And, um, then, you know, it's, they don't prioritize spay or neuter.
And it's kind of, does the government need to mandate it?
And then, you know, I've done some work even with the commissioners here locally.
And then I've learned so much about the law side of it and all the
lobbyists and influences there, and, but I like to hunt and I mean,
just lots of complications, but then it's also the idea of you can only.
A law is only as good as you're able to enforce it, you know, and
so there's backyard breeders or, you know, all the different things
so it's, I don't know that I could say the exact problem, you know, I
used to think it was overpopulation of animals and shelters, but there's
human activities or actions that are leading to that, you know, and so.
Even in, in Georgia, where I live too, there's a lot of apartments and rental
homes or different things that if you rent, a lot of times there are certain
dogs you're not allowed to have, or maybe you're not allowed any dog.
So then people are forced to give up their animals.
And we see that in the volunteer work I do too.
So it's, it's a multifaceted.
Anke: Yeah.
I mean, it's not an easy one, right?
Because I'm wondering, You know, the, the overpopulation, it, it kind of
doesn't sound right to me, right?
It's almost like I wouldn't, and that's the thing, I don't know the numbers.
That's just like sort of the impression.
And because it's very similar here in that sense of like, yeah, dogs
are tools or toys for the kids.
And, you know, and if they no longer serve us, then, you know, so there's
a lot of that attitude, which has driven me to create all that by dogs,
because they've got to kind of change the narrative somehow, you know, but it
doesn't feel to me as if they're like, It's not like a plague that there's
all of a sudden too many cats and dogs.
It's almost like if you look at the number of households and the number of
people, you know, and the number of dogs.
So I don't think this necessarily would have to be a problem if, you know, almost
like If the attitude towards animals and our responsibility towards them was
different, if, as you say, you know, like, if it wasn't made so difficult
to have a dog in a rental apartment or in this or that kind of stuff.
So it's almost like, It's not really that there's too many dogs, it's almost there's
not enough households who are willing and able to take care of one, you know?
Krista: And that, I think you hit the nail on the head, you know, and I know
you and I both like systems and processes.
So I came up with like a social change framework, um, of even looking
at like, if I could, you know, go in and do it, what would we change?
And it really is influencing behaviors and how we.
Look at animals because, you know, I, I can tell you wholeheartedly, we
would probably move across the country.
At least I know I would, I might have to drag my husband a little bit, but if
something needed to happen for the dog, I mean, it's that, you know, I mean, our
dogs are very much part of our family and I know not everybody is, is to that
extreme, but I would, I prioritize that.
And that's, you know, it's, it's a lifelong commitment
in the way that I look at it.
It's not just.
Oh, you know, for Christmas or that kind of thing.
But it's, it really gets back to, I believe, shifting people's belief and
responsibility, which is a whole paradigm of, of how, you know, to shift the whole
way people are thinking about animals.
If, if we look at it at that small level or that big level, and then.
You know, the volunteer work we do is helping animals get
out of a high kill shelter.
And so that's where we're having all the conversations.
One of the first things we ask people when they want to foster
is, you know, do you rent?
Because we want to know, are there regulations?
Because many, unfortunately here, do have that.
And then it's also the, the current economic situation we're in.
You know, as people, are challenged to put food sometimes on their
own table, you know, or pay their own bills, and then maybe the dog
needs surgery, which is expensive.
Oh, don't,
Anke: don't get me even, don't even go, let's not even go there, because I've
heard things from friends and clients I have in the States, and there's the
horror stories they tell about, you know, the, the, the ridiculous cost
of stuff, and insurances try then not step up, or like, try and sort of find
some loophole to not have to pay, and.
Yeah, no, that's not, that's not funny.
Krista: Yeah, and it's, and, you know, I've done so much market research, again,
being a data nerd too, talking with some of the companies that even, you know, try,
this is their focus, and then also down to like the grassroots level of, you know,
really helping animals get out every day from, from this, um, high kill facility.
Um, and I, I, I, What I've, without having kind of the big picture answer,
which I would love to have or figure out, I figured, you know, as long as I can
influence my current space in a positive way, until I know what this big answer is,
you know, and, and also to help people, you know, within different facilities
within our government and things that are doing that, but to give them the
tools of how do we think strategically?
How do we follow up?
How do we bring sales in a positive way?
You know, I look at sales as service.
And, you know, and actually interact with people in a way that, you know,
be appreciative of the volunteers.
There's so many ways that, you know, that's like crazy to even think that
we say these things coming from the business side, but to be able to instill
and infuse some of those values and ways of thinking, I see huge opportunities
because so many times it is, you know, people that are just literally fighting
with the next person, you know, but they both want to save animals, but yet it's.
Anke: Yeah, I mean, that's so the same here.
So, like, how would you, if somebody goes, so that project you're doing,
like, you know, like, what is it?
Like, what is the, you know, like, what is the, well, the, the objective, sort
of the outcome, the idea, you know?
So, like, what does that look like?
And they, you know, is it like, Well, you, you'd explain it.
Krista: Yeah, no, that's a great, it's a perfect question.
And it really right now is where I'm open to just opportunities to create
an influence change in this space.
And so everything from speaking engagements, you know, in front of
this kind of, uh, crowd to help give them the tools to think strategically,
to solve the problem, you know, a different way, like bring something
that maybe worked in a different industry to this industry that's just.
Been the same for I don't know how long, but ridiculous amounts of time.
I've partnered with Humane Societies to come up with marketing campaigns to
influence change, you know, in their areas and bring in, you know, influencers or
different ways to create that positive relationship and, and really foster
that responsibility that a pet is for life, you know, it's not for the season.
And, um, then I've also partnered with the commissioner too and worked,
you know, just on trying to help, um, some of the local groups better
utilize their funds that they do have to create, make sure it's going to the
biggest impact activities, because as you and I both know, there's 80, 000
activities, one that you could do in your business every day, but also that
could help animals and making sure the funds that are available are really
invested in those high ROI areas.
Anke: Like really almost like bringing a business hat to the doggy industry.
Right.
And I love that because I see this sort of my big vision kind of project
that I thought, Oh, like these steps don't really draw me in until I
figured out a way to kind of give this a voice was like a sort of.
You know, and it was inspired by, you know, a lot of like
rescue people like here.
And it's often, you know, it's often young girls that are kind of unemployed.
They don't have money.
They haven't got a clue.
They have a passion and they do their best, you know, but, but it's just always
then like begging for PayPal transfers and then it's dodgy and people don't like
people, then there's always some, some people who write off it and, and, and.
And scam people and put like, you know, horrible pictures of, of
emergency situations to scam people out of money so nobody trusts
them and they're all struggling.
And I've often thought like, God, if this was run like a proper business,
you know, when there's a service and there is, there's like, you know,
there are services that bring in money so the other stuff can be funded.
And, and I, that's why I was so excited when I heard you talk,
I was like, you're doing that.
Krista: Yeah, and, and that's, you're exactly right.
And knowing, you know, your business background too, it just,
the worlds have been separate in my experience to a large degree.
I mean, there's definitely people bringing that in, you know, in different
ways, but there's such an opportunity.
And, you know, one of the questions that I'm playing with, and I'll give
to you because you're super smart, and not that we'll know the answer today,
but is, you know, the, the breeding industry, or, you know, the paid 5, 000
for this specific dog, or, you know, pet stores, those kind of things, they
market, they run an actual business.
And so how, you know, Do we model what they've done to get people in, you
know, and also make the rescue dogs, the rescue cats just as appealing?
Like what is, you know, I almost think of like the Starbucks effect, you
know, where people all of a sudden start paying 10 for a cup of coffee.
But how do we like, that's a question that I don't have the exact answer
to yet, but I know just giving you that question, your brain will
come up with all kinds of stuff.
But it's kind of thinking like, how do we Just totally throw the current
model on its head, and what can that look like where it's actually
a pride and joy and a marker of awesomeness to have a rescue dog.
Anke: I, like, I'm just like, wait, what?
I can't imagine anything else, right?
Yes, yes.
It's almost like, well, all, you know, well, the last one isn't specific.
Like, the last one is the only one where I actually know the parents.
Right.
So, and that wasn't the breeder either.
So it wasn't somebody, Oh, we have a lot of puppies that need homes.
Right.
So, well, they kind of rescued from a shitty life too, you know, but it's
the only, the only dog I actually even know the parents, everybody
else is straight from the street.
Right.
And I think, Looking back at the summit I ran in February, uh, and the whole sort
of topic around, you know, it was about ease and anxiety in rescue dogs, right?
Because there's always this narrative that like, you know, they're all
traumatized and they all, you know, they come like with baggage and
that's where my mind goes initially.
It's, I think people often hold back from considering a rescue dog because it's
like, oh, I don't want to like, I'm, I'm not experienced, so I'd rather go for
a breeder and I get like a blank slate.
You know, so I, I get a new car kind of thing, right?
I don't want to use this car because who knows what's under the hood.
And I don't want to have to deal with all the baggage that comes up.
Right.
And I think change.
And from what I've learned.
From, you know, all the experts I've spoken to from at the summit
and ever since that I keep inviting people, uh, and especially sessions
around trauma and, you know, it can happen to a puppy from a breeder.
Like it doesn't make a difference.
Like I think this is almost like If, if we could come out with marketing, like
with that, like support that narrative that a rescued dog is no more damaged
than your puppy from a breeder, you know, I think that might level out
the playing field a bit, you know.
Krista: And that's a great point too.
I mean, I've seen just crazy stories too of the, the trauma caused, I mean, with
breeders and how people think it's, oh, and this beautiful castle and all these
dogs are, no, they're many times kept in terrible, terrible conditions, you know,
and just, And, and so to your point, though, the trauma piece, and it's funny
because I didn't know any dog any other way other than from the, you know, the
shelter, both our dogs were from the, the kill list, you know, and, um, and, and
it, I mean, both of them did come scared as can be, but I've also seen dogs that
within two or three days of being in their new foster home are licking the owner's
face, Sleeping with the owner in the bed, you know, if that's how they, they are.
And so it can also be a fast turnaround, but to me, there's, I
guess I get joy in that seeing them become a dog again, you know, so it's,
Anke: yeah, that's, I love that.
Like we have become a dog again.
And I think it's, it's like, because there's so many things that can kind of.
It's just like people, you know, you can be traumatized without having experienced
something really horrible, right?
So it's like, you don't need to be kidnapped, whatever, you know?
And I think dogs are the same.
They can be like, you know, ripped away from their mother, like a bit too early.
And they kind of, you know, and that can be traumatizing.
And a rescued or street dog might go, I'm doing just fine in the street.
So, you know, so it's like, it isn't that.
It's literally like there is no causal relationship between here's the
circumstance and here's the trauma.
So there's a correlation obviously, you know, but it isn't cause and effect.
So I think it isn't, you know, like your rescue dog.
And I, I remember I had somebody, uh, I don't know whether you've got that.
This whole yellow, you know, the whole yellow thing about like your
dog's wearing something yellow, which basically indicates to
like, my dog needs some space.
Basically my dog can't handle, you know, it's kind of, I haven't heard
Krista: of that.
Great idea.
It's
Anke: a, it's a whole project.
It's very big in the UK, I think.
And I, I knew about it.
So, you know, and apparently, and the lady who was really
pushing the thing in the UK.
It was because of her own dog, you know, who can't handle, like, it's
super fluffy, super cute, so anybody's like, oh my god, and he just bites.
Like, he just does not like it, you know.
And he's really reactive to other dogs, other people, like, real sort of, you
know, he's from a breeder, he had no, no bad, like, you know, so it's not,
it's not, um, I think that would be a big, big if people realized that.
No, just because they come.
And also sometimes it's like an owner dies or it's like they haven't done anything
horrible to be in a shelter, you know, so.
No,
Krista: I mean, a lot of times there's, I mean, we have purebreds
that we have in the shelter too.
I mean, and, or we're guessing they are based on, you know, how they look.
But, um, It's also really interesting, too, to think how many times
people were the worst for animals.
And what I mean by that is, my husband made the comment, because
we used to always have our dog when we'd go walking and say, Oh, there's
another person with their dog.
Do our dogs want to say hi?
What a stupid thing, he pointed out, because as a human, I don't want to go up
and say hi to every person on the street.
Why in the world would I assume my dog wants to say hi to their dog?
And, you know, I mean, how stupid, but yet we do that and we put
them in face to face, which is actually an aggressive approach.
Anke: That's the other, that's the other angle.
That's the other approach to it.
It's almost to say, well, if people were, because like, what, like, unless
somebody dies or some, you know, like a lot of people give up their dogs
because they just can't handle the dog.
So there's just some stuff like they can't get.
So where it's like, well, what if we could educate, starting with children,
educate people better to read body language, to understand how dogs actually
function so that less people find like, Oh my God, I can't handle this dog.
So I think, well, that would be a big start, too, you know?
Krista: That would be a huge piece.
And even understanding, like, part of the education campaign I was mapping out
included teaching about the importance of spay and neuter for health benefits.
And it also makes both females and males less aggressive.
I mean, so we lessen the likelihood of dog fights, dog bites, plus
unnecessary extra animals, too.
I mean, so it was like I do believe the hugest starting point, I think most humans
have a good heart and want to do right.
They just don't have the education or the access to be able to do better and so
it's up to us to find ways to, you know, start a thing like this lady in the UK.
I love that yellow bandana.
I'll send you the
Anke: link to it.
Please do because I would love
Krista: to see that and maybe it's taken off here in the U.
S.
and I've just, Not seen it, but, but even for, you know, so many times when a person
takes a foster dog home, we say they need at least two weeks to decompress.
They've been in, you know, keep them away from other dogs, you know, even
if you have pets, just, you know, do small introductions and people usually
bring them home and they're like, we're having a party tomorrow and we're going
to, and it's, you know, and I'm joking, hopefully they aren't really having a
party, but it's like, they don't think about what the dog needs and how to set.
But I, even if we tell them, you know, or they're like, We don't
know if they get along with cats, and they put them immediately with
cats, and then the cat gets attacked.
It's, so I think
Anke: It's crazy.
It is.
I think it is the education piece where I think it's more so than reducing, I mean
obviously, you know, avoiding unwanted litters, while that makes sense, right?
But I don't think almost like the amount of animals around isn't the problem.
It's like people not knowing how, not having the environment and
mostly not knowing how to make that, you know, co living successful.
Krista: Yes.
And you know, um, and I know we're, uh, just real quick, one other thing
that I thought was really interesting to learn too is really, um, some of the
individuals I interviewed spoke about how the humane society a lot of times in
the United States for sure is looked at, oh, that's where I go and dump my dog
kind of thing, or that's like, that's the place you take them if it doesn't work
out, but instead to rebrand it in a way as this is a resource You know, maybe
you go there for help with dog training.
Maybe you're having financial challenges and they maybe have a
program that could help with dog food.
Or, you know, you got evicted.
There was one that was like, the, it was something along pause, but it
was like on pause, so that you could actually have a foster for your dog
for a month if you lost your home and needed A place like that kind of stuff's
Anke: brilliant.
I love that.
Oh
Krista: yeah.
And have it be more of a resource center versus, I'm just giving up, look at it
as, okay, this is a lifetime commitment.
You know?
Ideally people look that at their children that way too.
And how do you know our child had whatever challenge?
Okay, so we go solve the challenge versus just dumping it, you know?
And maybe even.
You know, shifting that way of thinking could really create big shifts too.
Anke: Oh totally, totally.
So to wrap up, where can people find out about you and
get in touch and support you?
Krista: Yes, well thank you very much and of course I love just talking with you,
we could do that all day but Um, on, you know, my website is unleashedproject.
com and you can find information there.
It's very basic information, but that's probably the easiest way through the
contact form there just to reach out and that'll go directly to me and,
and, you know, we can have whatever conversations about really helping to
shift this, this consciousness and, and improve the education and the
awareness so we can create bigger change.
Anke: Thank you so much.
And I can't wait to continue conversation with you.
Krista: Yes, absolutely.
I will have it to be continued.
Awesome.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thanks so much for listening.
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That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.