I'm Travis Bader and this is The
Silvercore Podcast.
Join me as I discuss matters related to
hunting, fishing, and outdoor pursuits
with the people in businesses that comprise
of the community.
If you're new to Silvercore, be sure to
check out our website, www.Silvercore.ca where
you can learn more about courses, services, and
products that we offer, as well as how you can
join The Silvercore Club, which includes 10
million in North America, wide liability insurance
to ensure you are properly covered during
your outdoor ventures.
Before I get rolling, I want to let everyone
in on an exciting new website that Silvercore
is involved with called AnchoredOutdoors.com.
If you like hunting, fishing, foraging,
cooking, homesteading, etc, you will love
AnchoredOutdoors.com I highly encourage
you to check it out.
You won't regret it.
This is a special episode where I sit down with
Jens Cuthbert and Dennis Zentner, two extremely
passionate ambassadors for hunting and fishing.
And we discuss tips and tricks, ethics
and local knowledge, and in particular how
to be successful when waterfowl hunting.
These two are pros of what they do, and you'll
have the opportunity to literally experience
what it's like to be a local sitting at the
counter of Stillwater Sports, a small town
sporting goods store situated in Ladner, BC.
Sitting down with Dennis Zentner
and Jens Cuthbert.
Dennis is a former commercial fishermen.
He's a current president of the Vancouver Rod
and Gun Club, he's a past president
of region 2 BCWF.
He's an avid hunter and angler who I met as we
both sit on the hunting advisory committee for
the city and having shot beside him in Fort St.
John, I can attest, he's a heck of a good
shot in his own right.
Welcome, Dennis.
Thank you.
Welcome, Dennis.
I've also got Jen's Cuthbert now.
Jen's has worked as a hunting guide in the
States in the past.
I know Jen's as a person who lives to hunt.
If you haven't seen his Instagram feed,
make sure to check that out, it's 604Backwoods.
He's got over 17,000 followers on there, it's
got some great content.
He's sponsored and endorsed by Drake
Waterfowl and dive bomb industries and currently
works a couple of doors down for the Silvercore
head office, working at the local gun store and
Ladner Stillwater sports.
Welcome Jens.
Thanks Trav.
Thanks for having me here, bud.
So I figured we'll kind of get things
rolling here and get a little, a little bit of
background on you two.
Why don't we start with you, Dennis?
Sure.
Commercial fishing, you did that for awhile.
Yeah.
I started when I was in high school and I got
the opportunity to work on a stain boat for one
of the local families.
Worked with that for a few years and then what
got into the gill netting side of it and I got to
do some gill netting.
So I got to work up and down the coast and
thought it was a, a really good opportunity
to see what the coast of British Columbia had.
We went all the way from, say, Bella Bella,
down all the way back down to the border here.
And so I got to see some pretty neat spots
of British Columbia.
Very cool.
How long did you do that for?
Bout six years total.
So you've, you've got some chops?
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
How good were you on the boat when the
sea's were rough.
You know, in all those years, I only got
ever got a little bit green in the gills
at the sand heads.
Really?
Yeah.
I don't know all the places to be on the coast
to think it was probably the roughest spot I was.
The only spot I ever felt a little bit
green in the gills.
Pretty gnarly there.
Yeah.
The sandheads was the reason I had to get a
larger motor on my boat.
Yeah, we've been out there in tin boats
before nine nines and 12 footers.
I did it this year alone.
I had my little 15 footer and my and my
40 horse out there just cause my big boat was
in use at the time so.
Yeah, uncle Jack's got you beat.
He's always out there around the green can
there and is nine nine and 12 footer.
I don't know how he does it.
Diehards, diehards.
Hardcore.
And Jens, commercial guiding, can you tell
me a bit about that?
Ahh, well just like everything else,
it's a once in a lifetime opportunity.
I had a couple buddies that had a guide service
there when I was down in the States for
college baseball, and then the summer months
or the spring months I used to go and help
him out and his guide service and that's what
kinda really put me on to chasing birds.
I mean, I always did it since I was a kid.
But really seeing how much the sport demands
and how much time, how much effort it takes
to get up every day.
And, and you know, you're getting paid to do that
instead of just going out there leisurely, you
got a little bit more extra to put onto it so.
You say that's something you've done all your
life, just being out there chasing birds?
You know what, people think I'm crazy, but you
know, I'll be sitting on the beach in Hawaii and
there'll be like, what are you thinking about?
And that's all I'm really thinking
about is the birds.
Birds and what they're doing and how they're
doing it and where they are and how everybody
else is doing too, so.
I don't think that's that crazy.
Yeah, exactly.
One, one fallower to the next, right.
Yeah.
That's how you learn.
That's how you learn what they do.
Yeah.
Pay attention.
Lots of people got addictions, mines,
mines hunting or mines just being out there.
Yeah.
Especially with company, good company or my
dog or anything like that, with you Trav,
with anybody right?
So Cuthbert yeah, there's a BBC article
and they're talking about this Cuthbert.
And he instituted the first local laws
for bird protection.
I did not.
I didn't know that.
So the eider duck, I guess there is a, an
area off the UK and this guy by the name of Saint
Cuthbert goes over there and he sees people are
eating the eider ducks and eating their eggs.
And so he implemented the first bird laws in
the world, and it was about 86 or 875, 80.
And they've got a named the duck after him, they
call it the Cuddy duck or the St Cuthbert duck.
Cool.
So anyways, I thought it was interesting
that birding is so in your blood.
And
Must be related.
It's gotta be.
Neat little side note.
I mean, that's good that he's
protecting the birds.
I don't know, we like to harvest the birds,
but at the same time we like to do our part in
conservation, whether it's donating to the
local clubs or helping the farmers or down
at the DU sanctuary, anything right?
Or the rifle sanctuary.
Do your best and volunteer and more
about than just killing the bird and eating it
and stuff like that.
It's a about having a secure future for
the up and comer guys that are going to get
into the sport too.
Well, well, let's talk about the up and
comers, because I look at you guys as sort of
the old boys, the old school club, the the
old guard in Ladner.
Now, Ladner has a very prolific hunting and
fishing community.
And a lot of people grew up around
hunting and fishing.
They grew up on the ranges, they know the
rules, they know the etiquette, they know
how to get into it.
But there's a lot of people who are
looking to get into the sport that don't
know this etiquette.
They don't know what they're doing out there.
And I have to imagine working in a gun store,
there's going to be some sort of a weird dichotomy
between, you want to see more hunters out there.
You want to see people getting into the sport.
Just not, not in your hunting spot.
I don't want to see people coming into my
hunting spot perhaps if they're not doing things
properly, if they're not showing proper etiquette,
if they're, obviously being unsafe, but a lot
of new guys out there, they just don't know it.
That's right.
Yeah.
I think we've all seen it,
I think, I think that goes to say for a lot of
things in life I mean, you come to, come to
the ice rink and you'd never played hockey
before and I don't know a that you got to shower
with the boys after or something like that.
Sure. You know what I mean?
Like it's something to do with getting to know,
stepping in the ring, getting to know the ropes
and stuff like that.
And it can be intimidating, but I
mean, if you got a decent friend group and guys
around you and stuff like that and good general
public awareness and stuff, then, then you
start to pick it up.
Right.
Better.
So I see people who have decent friend
groups, but none of their friends are into
hunting or into fishing.
I remember when I moved to Ladner, course
every odd year we've got the pink settle
run up the Fraser, and I was super excited
to go out and just be able to fish off the
shore here real close.
This is before I had a boat, and I watched a
fellow and he's casting out and then you see him
reel reel reel, yank, reel reel reel, yank.
And I look over at him, said what are you doing?
Said well this is how you're supposed to
fish for them, somebody else showed me how to
do this when I came here and he was being
pretty successful.
Said, well, you know, you're not supposed to
foul hook them, like that's against the law.
Yeah.
He's like what do you mean.
I said well, what you're doing, they
call that snagging.
He had no idea.
That's the Fraser River twitch.
Exactly.
That's what they call the Fraser River twitch
or, yeah, everyone calls it that, I guess.
Yeah.
I think, I think what that boils down to is
,they maybe didn't have a, a mentor or a uncle
or a granddad or father that, that, that took
them out and showed them the the proper way.
Right.
They just went down to the river bank like you
did travel, and then just kinda just watched
what w w what some of the other fellows were
doing and well, that doesn't look that hard.
No.
Kind of followed suit.
Unbeknownst to him that he, he's
not doing illegal.
Right.
You know, he's, he's trying to foul hook with
that style of fishing.
Yeah.
And unfortunately, you know, some people
get caught and fined because they're doing
it wrong, and they're just like, well, I just
learned from the guy down on the beach there.
So luckily for myself and Jen's, we grew up
with, with mentors that taught us the right way.
So, you know, and I think that's part of
our job as, as hunters and fishers to see if
you see something wrong, go, Hey man, like I
think you're doing it a little bit backwards,
let me help you out.
Some guys will take you up on the offer
and some will tell you to beat it, right?
So hopefully the, you know, some of the people
I've come across over the years doing things
backwards, took it to heart, what we had to
say, and started to do it the correct way,
the more legal way.
I think tim, times have kinda generally
changed over the last couple of year.
Evidently.
Like this world is going so fast that,
you know, back in maybe the eighties and early
nineties and stuff like that, you're,
you're calling us the Cavaliers of, of of
this time of hunting and stuff like that.
Dennis was there way before me, he was
there when dinosaurs roamed the earth
and stuff like that.
I got a little bit of of everybody by growing
up, but I think people's time is, is so important
to them that a lot of the time that they
don't take the time to show other people how
to do it or they don't.
They don't have the time to do it, whether
it's someone's dad or grandpa or a big brother
or something like that.
It's just, these days and age, the world's
moving so fast that you gotta try and keep up.
And I mean, let's face it, hunting and fishing
is not looked at the same these days and
age as it was back in the eighties or the
nineties, how important it was to the lifestyle
of the people now.
Right.
So, I mean, back in the eighties and nineties you
didn't have social media.
You didn't have, you didn't even have cell
phones back then.
You had to go run down three blocks to knock
on your neighbor's door to say, Hey, Tommy,
you want to go down there and fish down to
the river or something like that, right?
So I think anyone who wants to join anything
like fishing, hiking, outdoor or anything like
that too, you obviously get into it by having
someone there with you and hopefully they guide
you down the right way.
It's whether or not they've been taught
the right way so.
Like Dennis says, we're just lucky that we grew
up with different family friends and, and dads and
brothers that all kind of grew up in the same
era as us too right so.
Well with the social media, I see people
even just locally here posting up on Facebook
saying, Hey, I want to, I want to get
into hunting, somebody want to take me on and
show me some spots?
And would you guys say that's a good way
to approach it or.
I don't, I, I think it, yeah, I think it's
putting your neck out there, but I mean,
these days and age you kinda got to do that.
But, you got to think logically behind it.
No guy's gonna really give up
his honey hole or.
Right.
No guy's really going to show you the proper way.
A lot of the things, you can't be spoonfed.
You gotta go out there and grind it yourself
and kind of figure out a way and then
surround yourself with good people too.
So where would you say a good first step for
somebody, eh, let's just look in the Lower
Mainland and, and talking about bird hunting.
What'd be a good first step if somebody really
wanted to, they've, they've gone through
their training, they've done their hunter
education, they've gotten themselves licensed.
They got their FWID, should they join a-
I would say talk to one of the local gun clubs,
you know, whether it's Pitt Meadows or Delta
Ladner or, I mean, even Vancouver Club,
I mean we're more of a trap club but there's
lots of hunters there.
Ridgedale, Abbotsford, all the clubs, all, all
through the Valley or you know even in the North,
there's water fowlers all through the province.
But a good first step would be to
go to the club.
You know, join, ask some questions, maybe
one of those guys will mentor you.
I don't have a problem taking a guy under
my wing and showing them, showing them the
ropes on how to fish and hunt and whatnot.
But like Jen says, you're not really going to
take them to your, your top secret spot because
we've been stung before.
You take a guy there and then.
Oh, Hey, this is kind of my spot, keep it
under your hat to keep it under wraps.
And you go back and you know, a month later, or
even the next season, and here's this This fellow.
Here's this fella in the exact same spot
you took him with his buddy or two buddies
and all of a sudden, well, that spots ruin.
And unfortunately with the way times are now
with social media, it's ruined a lot of,
a lot of good spots.
You know, guy takes a photo and they recognize
the background, oh I know where that is.
Or they're on there and like Hey, I caught this
big fish at, you know, such and such a lake and
all of a sudden you go back there and there's,
it used to be you and maybe two or three
other fishermen there, and all of a sudden you
go there and there's 15 there now, right.
And the guys don't even go out and look for
the birds, they just look for the background
in the social posts, that's all it is.
It's called internet scoutin now Dennis.
That's for sure.
They don't go in their boat and go out and
look for birds and they don't go out in the road
and put 200 clicks on there to the Valley and
back and figure it out.
Now guys just look for backgrounds
and screenshots and stuff like that.
Oh, and so you'd look at, look at some of
Jen's photos of his birds, and he's a
successful hunter and most of that is scouting.
So step number one would be to join a club.
Step number two is once you, think
okay, I'm going to be a water fowler.
One of the best things you can do is put
miles in the truck, go scouting, find
the birds, and start banging on doors.
The worst the farmer can say is, no, I'm sorry,
I've already given permission, or there's no
hunting on my property.
Right.
You know, if there's, if there's a spot where,
you know, if you've got a big chunk of
property and he might've get already given
permission to maybe two or three other fellows.
Well, there's a couple of guys that hunt
here, so as long as you can all get along,
it won't be a problem.
So, I mean, that's, that's the thing, people
for some reason nowadays are scared to go and bang
on a farmer's door and ask, ask for permission.
Well, yeah, no one, no one likes rejections.
I mean, I mean, going up to Cindy at the
high school dance and asking her to dance
and she snubbed you for, no, I mean, that's
pretty tough one to get over, it's still in my
grade 11 year right?
But.
Well I can, I can, I can tell ya.
Yeah, I could tell you.
I mean, I maybe go one for 10 on farmers'
doors some, some years and sometimes you go
10 for 10 on knocks.
But I mean, you can, hunting is, either you're
in or you're, you're kind of in or you're not in,
you know what I mean?
So, I mean, if you really want it that bad, you can
make it happen that bad.
I mean, you can.
You can go as far as following guys out of
the boat launch from the morning, you can go as
far as picking out the most ugly guy at the
boat launch and asking them where the ducks
are and stuff like that.
But I mean, when I was young, we'd haul
sacks of potatoes from the bar and all the
way out to the, the roadside, just for the
farmer, just, just for a chance at permission
and half the time he'd invite you in for a
cup of tea and say no.
Right.
And then you just sit there and you'd been
there, go home and cry.
Yeah, exactly.
Been there.
Yeah.
So I mean, what do you do?
I mean, the best advice that I could
say is, but boots on the ground go out and
scout just, just in bird hunting in particular
and stuff like that.
But don't be afraid of rejection.
Don't be too to upfront, to upcoming, you
know, be respectful.
Don't be too, too pushy or anything like that.
It'll come when it comes and, and just no when the
right timing is to do it.
I mean, you're going to go knock on a farmer's
door at six o'clock at night and he's having
dinner with his wife, he ain't going to give
you permission right.
Not gunna be happy.
Right.
Or you pull them off a tractor when he's
seeding in the field, he ain't going to
be too happy right.
So, I mean, pick your spots, show
up with a bottle.
I dunno, that usually helps.
You know what, I found that one works.
Yeah, that works well.
And I mean, I've, I've given away bottles
even with no permission and come back the
next year and they give you permission
because they remember who you are right.
Half the guys don't do that.
The other thing I find, if you get permission
or if you don't, it's good to go back and
upkeep that relationship.
But if you get permission, there's
nothing stopping you from bringing another
bottle again afterwards or at the end of the
year and saying, Hey, thanks very much, for
ensuring that you clean everything up that you
bring onto that field.
To reporting any anomalies you might
see out there to the, to the landowner.
I mean, there's a responsibility, I think,
on the hunter that's going to be out there
too, if they get that permission, to maintain
that relationship.
Well that's a bond that you start with the, with
the landowner, when you get permission there,
like you say Travis, you know, if you find
something on the property that's not right.
You know there's a tree across a fence, or a
fence is down or, you no ditches sloughed
in, or beavers made a dam or whatever.
If you go on and mention that to the farmer
and then they'd be like, okay, this guy
kind of understands.
Right.
So you, you, you build a relationship with
that farmer and then over the years it
becomes more than that.
Now, now all of a sudden you're, there, there's
friendships involved and all sorts of things.
And we've done it in the past where you, you bring
them a piece of smoked salmon and a bottle, like
you were saying, or even even offer him some of
your, your harvest right.
Like a well,old Dunkin Montgomery there, I
mean, he always kind of enjoyed it if we're
like, Hey, would you like a snow goose?
Or, you know a brant or whatever.
Pheasant, whatever.
Yeah.
You know, so you always, and quite often he
would take you up on that offer and I'd go,
how many do you want?
Well, a two would be fine.
So, you know, we'd either dress him up real
quick for him, or he'd dress them himself and
it's okay, just leave him in the feathers,
I'll deal with it.
But quite often we'd run back to the tailgate
and dress the bird for him and hand him and his
wife, you know, two big fat mallards or a couple
snow geese or something.
And you know, he was quite happy with that.
And in that example, he's one of the harder farmers
to get permission from.
Nobody.
Yeah.
Very few guys.
Wow.
I mean, and in my industry now I've, I'm
in construction and when, when a Dunkin
Montgomery was alive, I ditched all his ditches.
Oh yeah.
For him right.
And you know, even, even, even doing that, he was
a tough guy to please so.
Yeah.
That gave me some access by helpin him out.
He was my potato story.
Yeah, I knew all.
Bring him a sac of potatoes and a cup of
tea and he says no.
Right.
And, and even to this day, his son runs
that same farm and it's not easy to get
permission there,t here's a handful of guys.
So you were saying, where does a guy go to
kind of get started.
Dunkin's farm in past years has been part of
what they call associated wildlife preserves.
Right.
And it's a, it's an organization or a
gun club that goes and secures farmland.
You pay a, a handsome amount to become a member
of this organization and, but there's,
there's private lands for you to hunt on.
That's a good way to get started though.
It costs a little bit of money, but you know what.
If you start that, if you, if you pay what
I think it's what, 800 bucks or whatever,
1000 bucks, I'm not a part of the associated.
I'm not, I don't do the wildlife, I'm part
of Westham Island, but associated as in
there's other different hunting clubs, you
just got to dig a little bit to find out.
But 800 bucks, I mea for water fallowing,
yeah it seems a lot to swallow at the start
and stuff like that.
But you can go shoot pheasants, snow geese,
ducks, all with land owner permission
and stuff like that.
And you have endless amounts from.
From Ladner.
Ladner all the way out to.
Chilliwack.
Yeah, out to the Valley right.
So, and that's, I don't know how many acres they
got and they have their own club and there's
lots of other clubs that have all different acres
that you can join too.
It's, I mean, that's one good way to get
service and it's just like any other hobby.
Water, water fallowing is, is a hobby and
everything costs money these days.
I mean, costs money to put fuel in your
truck, costs money to go buy new pair of
skates, to ice hockey, everything, everything
costs money these days.
So I mean you're going to have to buck up to
pay, right to play.
Pay to play.
Yep.
That's right.
But at the same time too, there's nothing
wrong with knocking on, on public land doors
and, and I shouldn't say public, private doors and
doing your due diligence and not being afraid
of, of getting rejected.
We've knocked doors in Saskatchewan and Alberta
and stuff like that.
If you show up with a piece of fish on any
Saskatchewan or Alberta door, they'll give you
permission and mark my words, they're the
friendliest people out that way in the prairies
and stuff like that.
Every door that we knocked on there if it
wasn't already plan to be hunted, they would
let us, they'd let us in.
But every time when we walk knock, knock doors
in Saskatchewan, they let us in, they gave
us a place to stay.
Some of the nicest people around.
Here in BC, it's a little bit more tight knit.
There's not as many spots to waterfowl.
There's not as much public ground and it's
not vast and wide open.
We're dealing with the city kind of
encroaching on us, right.
We're dealing with new structure and, and new
types of people, and then people that aren't
used to being engaged with hunters, I guess
hunters or fishermen.
Right, right.
I guess another tip would be just really
knowing the synopsis and an easy thing that
you can do at home.
I've seen people who get into it and they
have no idea what areas are open, what aren't.
With the Lower Mainland, of course, you've got
the Fraser Valley.
Map.
The map, that, that's a good resource.
Comment on a map.
Yeah.
And being that you sit on the same board as I do,
or the community as I do.
The map is a guideline.
Just because it's red does not
mean it's closed.
Right.
So take an example, Surrey
and Langley as red.
Red is not necessarily closed.
As far as the waterfowl act goes, and the
right to farm act is.
You have the right to protect your crops.
So just because it's red doesn't mean it's close.
You can go there and you could obtain written
permission from some of those farmers and have
access to that land also.
Talk to some of the conservation
officers, they know.
The map is a by, it's, it's, it's a bylaw map.
So the regional biologist goes to the, to the
city council and says, any changes this year,
what's closed, what's open, what are the
rules and regulations as far as the bylaws
stance goes, and then they produce the map.
You've been there when, when Jack brings the
prototype of the map or the the draft and
we go over the changes.
It's a good guideline for new hunters because they
don't know where to go.
Well, it's their only guideline basically.
Apart from asking somebody where's legal,
what's not legal?
I mean. Correct.
They open the map.
They open the map and say, Oh look, I can
hunt here in Boundary Bay and I can do this.
And like, okay, there's some open
areas for me to go.
People come on, they'll phone, they'll phone or
you'll get them on social media where, where can
a guy go get started?
If you don't, if you don't feel comfortable
knocking on doors, you're going to go to Westham
Island or Brunswick Point, or you're going
to buy a boat and go into the Marsh.
It's a tough gig to go and learn on your
own without some sort of a mentor.
Yeah, it really is.
Right?
There's lots, there's lots to learn on how to
do it, but you know, lots of fellows, they'll go
and they'll go out to Boundary Bay and they'll
walk over the dike and go out into foreshore.
You know, they give it their best.
Yeah. But they'll learn.
They'll learn from that single experience, right?
Yeah.
And that's called the knocks of the
knocks of life.
You know, Hey, I went out there, I got a little bit
wind burnt and rained on, and I only got one duck.
Had lots of fun doing it, maybe next time
it will be better.
That's duck hunting.
That is duck hunting right?
And then, you know, part of the problem is
people don't understand the capabilities
of their firearm.
Ahh, here we go there.
They're, they're, they're shooting at things that
are a little bit too high or a lot too high.
They don't ha, they don't know the effective
range of their shotgun.
So, you know, and in some cases they, they need to
go, one, learn how to use their shotgun properly.
So when you go to a, an accredited range and
learn and learn, and then you go out in the field
and say, okay, well that bird's a little too far,
or, you know, you need to know what, what the
load you're shooting is capable of, what you're
capable of and what the firearms capable of.
So there's lots of folks out there shooting stuff,
80, 90, 100 yards, and I mean, if they do hit
them, the bird probably trickles off somewhere,
lands, you know, half a mile away and it
doesn't get retrieved.
No dog, nothing.
No dog, it's hawk food or coyote food or gone
to waste because you're not shooting ethically.
It's no different than, you know, shooting
at a deer and making a poor shot on deer.
Basically what it boils down is learning
your firearm and being an ethical hunter.
If you're shooting at stuff that's too
far away, you're going to wound more
and retrieve less.
If you bring up, let those birds come in and
say within 60 yards, 40, 40 yards is kind of the
optimum shot or closer.
But you know, say your max range
is 50, 60 yards.
If you, if you're shooting at anything
inside that, your success rate's going
to go up a lot higher.
So you go out with a box of shells and you
know, hopefully you're going to come home with
your limited ducks.
f hear some people come in and you know,
they, they go with a flat or shells and
they're happy to come in with five ducks.
Good, good on them.
They're out there enjoying the outdoors.
Good for Stillwater.
Yeah good for Stillwater.
But, but let's face it, it's not
an ethical thing.
The other thing it does is this, you're going
to have people seeing you out there do that.
Like you mentioned, the Brunswick Point.
People can walk all around the outside there.
They see you shooting at birds that are too
far away getting wounded and where's that end up?
Next thing you know you're going to be
reading about in the newspaper, these poor
ethics are going to be reported upon and
that one poor hunter.
And ruin him.
Who's demonstrating poor ethics, all
hunters painted with the exact same brush.
Yeah.
The other, the other thing that
those guys don't realize when they're
shooting at birds.
In or out of range or anything like that
is when you shoot at birds out of range at,
my out of range is 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 yards.
You're only educating them.
They're. Right.
They're not, they're not going to come
in the next day, you know what I mean?
Most birds are, are, are on a flight path.
They're going to do that similar flight path
every day until they feel uncomfortable to
not do that flight path.
So if you get those, let's say snow geese,
snow geese coming over at 60 yards.
There's a lot of snow geese coming over at 60
yards, and you figure that you can hit them
and you're not hitting them at 60 yards.
You're only educating those things to fly
back at the next day at 70 or 80 yards right?
Now, you're just tickling them, you're just
massaging the breasts.
You're not, you're not, you're not
even penetrating anything right.
You're only, you're only helping your Stillwater's
cause with wasting and burning your ammo
and stuff like that.
And to be honest, it's more of a sport when
you can decoy them or when you can get them
in close enough to where you can actually do
full capability of, of harvesting the animal
properly and with one shot and down it goes.
And it's a quick, quick dispatch.
That's my favorite way.
Yeah.
That's my favorite way when they're the birds
completely committed.
It's my favorite way to hunt birds.
Oh, there ain't nothing better.
That's right.
When you can trick a bird into coming into plastic,
plastic things that look like it, and there ain't
nothing better than that.
There's one other resource that I figured
I'd throw out there, and we talked about
the, regulations, talked about the, the map.
If you guys ever used iHunter?
I use iHunter and Hunt Buddy.
Hunt Buddy.
Yeah.
I think Hunt Buddy was a sort of a, the
trailblazer on the phone.
That's right.
I think there's a guy by the name Mark Stenroos
in Alberta who took the iHunter thing and
for people that are new to it, it's a, it's a
pretty good resource.
It makes things, now of course, you have to check
the synopsis, make sure that everything matches
up, but they're pretty good at keeping on top
of things and knowing if, what your limits are,
what, what the season is, the length of it.
But the maps are the most, one of
the tools that I found quite useful.
I remember it was, it was last year actually,
I was on an elk hunt and we had taken the kids
into town to get some hot cocoa and ice cream,
and we're heading back and we're going through
some farm, farm land, and we see some juvenile
elk in a farmer's field and we pull over.
The kids are trying to identify it and
figure it everything around here was gonna
be private property and non huntable.
And as the kids are looking out, I look
over at my wife and I say, well, you know,
mama's not going to be too far away, and my
wife had a cow elk tag.
Said too bad we're, we're in an area where
we can't harvest them.
And she pulls up the iHunter and she looks,
actually right across the street over there,
it's completely open.
I look across the street and there's another
cow elk right there.
Having resources like that can also
be a helpful thing.
I think, I think a thing to touch on is like you
mentioned regulations.
Right.
And, and as a CORE instructor, it's one
of the things I stress a lot is regulations
and how to read them properly, right?
So learn how to read the regulations properly
cause, and Jens'll, Jen's will say the same.
When you look at a lot of the hunt forums,
guys are asking simple questions that are in
the regulations, right?
It's like, Hey, it's on page 15, just
look it up yourself sorta thing right?
Right.
They're relying so much on everybody to
tell them what to do instead of actually
doing the research.
So in my CORE classes, I kinda spend a little
extra time on the, on the regulations part
because I want them to know how to use it.
They can't come back to me and say,
today, you didn't teach me about that.
You didn't teach me about, you know, the,
the regulations well enough that I understand.
No, when my students leave, they know
how to read that regulation properly.
I find that happens a lot and, and, and hunters on
the hunt forums get not upset, but they get tired
of those silly questions that are so easily to,
you should be able to figure them out yourself.
Mhmm.
Yeah, I think, I think, yeah when a, when a,
when a question that's pretty simple gets
posted onto a, let's say a forum or a page on
social, and you've had guys that have been in
the game for 50 years or whatever you want to say.
I think I can see how they can get easily
annoyed with, with simple questions like
that or whatever.
But at the same time, these days and age, I
should say the kids, or the people that are
getting involved in this stuff almost want
it spoonfed to them, to the point where they
don't even care about reading the regulations.
We have a, we've got a new influx, a new coming
of, of new hunters coming into the thing
where it's, you know, I pay for my license, I
pay for my tags, I pay for my stamp, I can go
out there and shoot.
I don't know how much I'm allowed to shoot, I don't
know where I'm allowed to shoot, but I'm just
going to go out and shoot because they've never had
that privilege before.
Right.
It's a privilege to hunt, it is, but it's
our right to hunt too.
I believe it's, it's our right to bear arms
and it's, a firearm is just a tool to me.
Yup.
It sits right next to a shovel, you know, on
the front porch, and it doesn't do any more
damage than what it then a shovel would to digging
in the yard right.
Preaching to the choir.
Yeah.
So I think it's, I think it's a little bit
of a negligence when people are so, put out
dumbfounded questions and stuff like that.
But at the same time, I think they just
need a little bit more direction and a little
bit more help sometimes too, because if they're
coming from an era where it's uncommon to have
to work mpretty hard to get to what you want.
Right. In life, right so.
Well, working in the gun store, what are,
what are some of the common things that you
see people come in that you just kind of have
to shake your head at?
I'm sure there's.
Ohh, there's millions Trav.
You know, we come in with barrels put on
backwards and fully loaded guns and I dunno
it hap, it happens.
But I mean, there's people from all walks
of life and stuff like that, and like I said,
they just need a little help, a little guidance.
Sometimes it's due to negligence or laziness
and stuff like that.
But I mean, we get, we get public coming in
for public complaints.
We get hunters coming in about other hunter
complaints sometimes.
Okay.
But I mean, that's all part of the game.
You know, when, when you're in that certain
aspect of it, it's going to happen, you know?
But it's not going to happen as often
as you think it does.
It just, it's going to happen in that time.
We're trying to whittle it down to as minimal
as possible right.
Public complaints.
Let's talk about that.
What can new hunters do to mitigate
public complaints?
I think, I think they, they should,
one, know the rules.
Right.
Just so that they're not out of place or
out of bounds and stuff like that.
And sometimes rules aren't there written,
they're just the unwritten rules
of the sport, you know what I mean?
Not to set it just like you do in fishing, you're
not going to go down there and go post below a
guy in the run and start casting your thing in
without going to maybe ask permission and say,
Hey man, I know it's not your river, but out
of etiquette, I'm going to ask you, Hey, can I
fish below or would you rather me fish above you?
See, a lot of people wouldn't know that.
No, they wouldn't right.
And same thing with duck hunting, right?
And you're not going to go post a guy, I mean,
I had it this year in similar situations,
hunting snow geese where we had a, where we had
a guy post up 50 yards off our, off our set.
Come on.
And you know, and what do you do?
You, you can either join forces with the guy
or educate the guy, or just if he's a plane,
I guess dick then he's going to have that name
built out for him later on or whatever right.
But in most circumstances, it all
figures out its own way and stuff like that
and people get along.
And I mean, as hunters, we all have
to unite somehow, because that's we, we
all love the sport.
We all love to hunt, we all, but we don't want
it to be thrashed by the, the few and far between
the people that are going to try and ruin it for
us with being ignorant or uneducated things.
So with the public complaints and stuff like
that, yeah I think it has to do with some, some
hunters and stuff like that that are ruining it
for others, but I also think it's I think it's a
little bit ignorance on, on a part of the public
that about most of the complaints that we get.
Oh for sure it is.
It lands on both sides for sure.
But everybody, an example, an ethical
hunter or a, a hunter with a bit of smarts
wouldn't pick a heavy Southeast wind day
to be shooting right behind a neighborhood.
Yeah. Right.
Right, cause it's going to sound like you're
right in the backyard.
So there's days where I've gone to a field
and went, this might not be the right place to
be shooting here today cause it's going to,
I mean, yes, you're, you're more than legal.
You're far enough out in the field.
Nobody's going to get rained on, but the
noise is going to make, make the neighbors mad.
And that's the same thing with like casing
your gun while you're walking the dike.
You know what I mean?
I mean.
Yeah Jens and I had this discussion while I
was with a fellow today actually in the store,
and I was in there visiting Jens, and this
fellow came in and the discussion came up about
hunting Boundary Bay and with, with the Metro
Vancouver running the strip park at the dike.
Yeah.
That was owned by Delta, Metro Van came
to Delta and asked if they could manage the
Dyke as a strip park, as a continuation
from the Centennial Beach Parkway right?
So was Centennial Beach park used to come
around and come over to Boundary Bay and it
kind of ended there.
They wanted to carry on the the strip parks so
people could enjoy that whole use of the park.
Problem being is, back when we were kids
that was pretty much strictly used by hunters.
Right.
And the guys would go out there with their
pickups on a, on a sunny Saturday afternoon,
and the dykes were never gated back then.
He'd back up there on the thing, you'd have your
trap throw out there, you'd be chucking pigeons
out there shooting, shooting back clay birds
and stuff like that.
Well, that's come to an end after that happened.
This fellow that we're talking to today was
one of the comments was about walking over the
dike or down the dike with an uncased gun
and pack three ducks.
Mmm.
The, the general public who's not hunter
savvy, not going to want to see that.
No, not at all.
So you gotta be a bit smart as a hunter, like
let's not be flashing.
Case your gun, throw your ducks in your blind bag
or whatever and then.
Yeah.
You know, mind your P's and Q's.
The problem is people get a little bit
confrontational, like they'll, they'll come
across a, a person, just general public that's not
educated about hunting and you shouldn't be
shooting birds out here.
Well, that's not the case.
Boundary Bay in that, in that aspect, with
that park there, it's a multi-use area.
It's no different than Brunswick's Point where
people walk their dogs and the kids go out on
their bikes and they ride along the dyke,
it's a multi-use area.
Both, like hunters need to get along
with the public.
Public needs to get along with the hunters.
So if you have a hunter or a group of
hunters that's a bit confrontational with
you know, somebody from the public that's
not educated about hunting or doesn't
agree with hunting, that just makes it worse.
I think we are going to be all sorts of
complaints, right?
I think we all, we've all been there.
You know where there's going to
be confrontation.
There's going to be people that don't
share the same views that you have or
anything like that.
I'm all, what you said, Dennis, I'm all for that,
I'm not, I'm not too scared about, I would
case my gun on the dyke, but I'm not scared about
showing my, my harvest.
No.
Or my foul or anything like that.
I think most people that walk those dykes, let's
say 64, 72nd Brunswick Point, Pitt Marsh,
whatever you want to call it, any public ground,
I think most people that are there, are
accepted of it and they know what's going on.
You got to remember that down Brunswick
Point that used to be all private dyke,
public use would never be able to walk down
there until they opened it up in the I think it
was the early nineties or something like that.
But you have to remember that the hunters were
there before there was dog walkers, before
there was, you know, morning walkers that had
their cool crisp stride, you know that come
down there with their Starbucks, and now here
I am stereotyping them.
You know, we live in such a, an awesome
place, especially Ladner.
We don't want to put it too much on the map
because then more people come because it's already
losing it's small thing, we're getting encroached
with that big, ugly piece of pavement out
there and Tsawwassen.
I mean, I shot thousands of ducks, or I shouldn't
say thousands, but hundreds of ducks,
right where that big ugly mall sits.
And now it's, it's not soil.
Yeah. It's concrete now right?
You can't get that back, you can't
grow, can't grow crop out of concrete.
And here we are having some of the best soil
in all of Canada, and we're paving it over.
Yeah.
Like it's nobody's business and I.
Well, it brings up a, you know, there's a,
there's an interesting balance because we talk
about casing the gun because some people
might be offended by seeing the firearm, by
putting the, your kill and hiding it away.
I know I was speaking with another fellow,
he says, you know what?
I'd love to drive down the road with my deer
opened up on the top, letting the air cool
it out, but I just can't do that because
of how that'll look.
And although it's perfectly legal for
somebody to be walking out with their uncased
firearm and perfectly fine for them to be
displaying or having their harvest out in
the open, there are going to be those
within the society that are offended by it.
And the difficult fight comes in when, just like
you were saying before, it's, it's a tool.
I was raised around firearms, I got my
first firearm when I was, well I started
shooting at four, got for my first firearm
at five years old.
Still have it, old custom made 22 Stevens
cut down to fit a five year old frame right.
It took down into two pieces, could throw
it in my backpack, it was perfect.
I'm used to that.
And for a long time I had this attitude
of, it's legal, it's lawful, I can do it.
Screw everyone else right?
I mean, I'm not doing anything wrong, but
the reality of it is, we are the minority.
Yeah.
We really are.
And then that's what's changed from like the
70's, the 80's and then early 90's and now,
you know, getting into, we're well into the
2000's now and I mean, I hate to say it but, the
snowflakes are winning, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like they're, I shouldn't say they're
winning cause it's not a fight for that.
But I don't think anyone should be not proud to
be a hunter or, or out even a shooter or a, or
a fishermen or anything like that because a
certain group of people that are, are more
minded like that disagree on that part right?
But it's a touchy subject, right?
Because at any point in time, you could
say the wrong thing and you're going to
be the bad guy, right?
You say one wrong thing and shame on you.
And when it comes down to do I case the gun?
Do I not?
Do I hide the harvest or not?
And then it becomes the argument of, well, if
we keep casing it and hiding it and people
don't see it, then how do you normalize it?
Because not having, not seeing the firearm
becomes the norm and you further hurt your cause.
Well like just, back in the day when guys would
roll around in their, in, in their Chevy or
their Ford or whatever with three guns sitting
Shotgun hanging in the back.
In the back window right?
Yeah.
You wouldn't think anything.
I went to, I, I, when I went into high school, I
used to drive a Cutlass Supreme with an empty
bullet shells all around the thing, like dingle
balls, but they were shotgun shells, perfectly
legal, but I got pulled over quite a bit.
But at the same time it was like, that
was, I was okay with displaying that I was
okay with, you know, being okay with that.
And at that time it was right at that
transitioning point where, you know, guns
are scary, guns are bad, guns a thing.
I think a lot of it is just ignorance
and uneducated people about certain things.
It's, it's, it's a tool and so it's a way to
harvest animals right?
Well, speaking of, yeah.
Well, speaking of the general public and
people seeing hunters out there, Dennis, you
had an experience where somebody got their
phone out, filmed you, I think they put it on
YouTube didn't they?
Went up to the media, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, we had a, we had a opportunity, a very
privileged opportunity to hunt a piece of
property who not many people get to hunt, and
it's back in the back in when we were allowed
to hunt the property.
Now it's being developed, so it's kind of off the
table, but back in that, in that time, there was
a handful of us that have permission to hunt there,
and it came to the point where the public pressure
from around that farm, they kept complaining
to the land owner and the land owner finally
said, okay, there's no more hunting here.
Got to the point where there was so many
snow geese in this property that even the
neighbours were like man, we can't even
sleep at night, they're there all the time.
So the landowner finally said, okay, come on in
and, and you know, let's harvest some of these
geese and make a move on.
This, a resident, you know, everybody's got a
phone now on there with a camera on your video.
So came out and videoed us, called
the local Delta police and made a, made a
big scene out of it.
Ended up going to media, when it was in
the papers it was you know, on the news.
We weren't doing anything wrong, we
followed all the rules.
The guy basically tried to make a mockery of
myself and my hunting partner at the time.
We stayed professional, answered the questions,
the media came, the media came to my hunting
partners residence.
We did an interview.
People just need to understand that we
harvest our animals, we just don't go shoot
him just because.
We don't shoot over our limit, we're
conservationists.
You know, us as duck hunters when the ducks
are freezing, we got a big long freeze up.
Example would be way back when Boundary
Bay was froze over.
The ducks were freezing, they were thin.
The Delta Rod and Gun Club went and purchased
a whole bunch of green and went and spread it
out for the birds to eat.
You wouldn't see general public do that.
We get, you know, I say as hunters, we give so
much more back to the wildlife then any of
the general public does.
Oh, the old saying eh Jen's like the, the
migratory birds stamp.
Oh yeah.
Us as hunters buy that migratory birds stamp,
every year the money goes back into the waterfowl.
It doesn't mean that general public can't
buy that same stamp and contribute.
Well, that's what I mean, the guy taken, I mean,
I take photography of, of wild birds and love
them just as much as when they're alive, as
when they're on my table.
Right.
But they don't see the, the hours put
in at, let's say the sanctuary or, or behind
a planting a cover crop for a farmer or
anything like that too.
Like I said, to the dyke walker that might
complain that when you have harvested birds
there, it's like, Hey man, I pay $17 and
85 cents every year for my bird stamp.
And that contributes to the wildlife habitat
restoration, to all that stuff, what do you do?
You can buy that too.
Right.
Why, why haven't you bought your bird stamp?
Do you have your bird stamp?
Anyone can buy it.
Not only that, it's a cool thing to collect.
Well, that's too, right.
I don't think a lot of the general public
actually knows that.
Right. Yeah.
I mean, if you're.
That's a good tip.
If you're a birder and if you enjoy photography or
going out there with your binoculars and looking
at the chickadees, looking at the sparrows,
looking at the starlings.
And the waterfowl.
And the waterfowl, anything.
That all helps that right.
But just on a, on a case in point touching
Dennis, is like, the other thing that people
don't realize is how much damage those birds
do to farmer's crops.
I've had a farmer come up to me that has
significant amount of property on Westham
Island and he's come up to me and he goes,
Jen's, you know what?
I didn't get a wink asleep last night.
And I said, why?
And he said, do you know what it sounds like to
have $10,000 get eaten out over two nights.
Yeah.
And it's like you sit there and you're
like, and he's like, can you come and
pound them out for me?
And it's like, yeah, I can only do my best,
but at the same time it's like, that guy is
losing money, right?
Are it's, it's getting eaten out, house and
home every single field, you know, and it's.
It doesn't take long for a big flock of snow
geese to annihilate a whole field.
Well and then they stamp down on the
ground, the water will sit on the top.
That's right.
Yup.
And then, I mean, and then you go as far as,
how much damage they do here, and then when they
migrate back up North into the Tundra, how much
damage they do up there.
They're almost eating themselves out of
house and home.
They're almost killing themselves off because
there's so many of them on this, on
this certain fly away and on, on the mid.
Central flyway.
Central flyway and the Mississippi flyway,
all that stuff.
That, they're eating the Tundra so fast that it
can't even regrow back so that the birds can eat
the next year after that.
There's just so many of them that they're
eating so much at the little, the juveniles
can't survive that.
Yeah.
And right now those numbers are just
out of control.
They're out of control.
Yeah.
Eventually it'll self level one would think.
Well. Food would run out.
Something is going to happen, but.
Trav they had the guys that used to say, you
know, they wouldn't see a snow goose in the 80's
and they might see a, you know, they might have,
you know, 5,000 on the fly away in the 90's,
here I'm talking Pacific flyway her on our coast.
And then you generally, and then you just saw the
explosion happen where you had, you know, where
the normal was 50,000 now it's at 60,000 now it's
at, you know, 130,000 on good hatch years
and stuff like that.
And now we're used to hear, or see snow
geese in East Delta, Chilliwack, they're
up the Valley now.
Yeah.
But they never used to be.
I mean, it used to be, we hunted them
on the foreshore, we hunted them on Westham
Island, maybe at Brunswick, that was it.
Now they're, they've come inland and they're
like right in the central Ladner, East
Delta and further out and that, and, and in
years gone by, that wasn't common to see.
Yeah.
But it wasn't common to have a casino or a
big mega mall or any of that too lot area.
And it turns out.
It turns those birds pretty nocturnal
pretty quick.
I mean you, you don't get to pound them in
the daylight hours and they come in at
night and you can't do anything about that.
They get so smart, so fast and you have so
much light pollution around here that they
can come in and they can, they can feed at
night and then they'll leave at first light.
You don't get a crack at them.
And thats a good example Jens, I mean
right by my shop is right where highway 99
and highway 17 meet.
Yeah.
And they have those big light halos at the,
at the interchanges and behind the shop
at night it's, fields lit and the snow geese
would come in there at night, every night.
And they, it was just like, it was daylight
there for them, it didn't phase them.
You wait till the slot machines go up down
the road, even worse.
Even worse.
Thanks Mr.
Toygo.
Yeah.
Shout out.
Shout out bud.
Make your money.
And another thing that hunters can do to, to
help themselves too is, we talked about it
earlier, was pick up after themselves right.
You know, earlier we mentioned like, if you
saw something wrong with the property, a tree
down on a fence or you know, beaver damn in
the ditch or whatever.
But I mean, that's part of it, you go
out there and you have the privilege to, to
hunt on whether it'd be public land or
private land, try not to leave the big mess.
I mean, I get it, some of the casings, they go
off on the side and you don't find them in the
long grass, but if you want to be welcomed back
there or you want to keep hunting open in the area,
you got to kind of pick up after yourself too so.
Yes.
You know, pick up your, pickup, your
casings, pick up your lunch rappers.
It's, you know, make it nice as it as it
can be, or nicer than when you got there.
And that's the problem.
Like I've gone to doors and banged on a door
and asked for permission and, and it's a farmer
I don't know, it's in an area I don't know.
And that, and the answer is no.
Hmm.
Because the previous hunter, there was a
slob hunter, right.
We'll use this, use that term.
It didn't pick up after themselves left
there, you know, pizza box behind or whatever
they had for lunch and beer can layin in
the blind or whatever.
And so the farmer's like, nah, I'm not,
not interested in going through that
scenario again.
So ya know, the hunters need to help
themselves by, you know, looking after
the piece of property that are hunting on.
And like I said, it doesn't necessarily have
to be private land, even on the public lands.
Yeah.
Mhmm.
And there's lots of times they'll go to
a spot and all that's pretty commonly used
by duck hunters, and you'll go there and
there's casings from the previous guy there
and you're like, ah, come on man, and you're
going to fill a half of a five gallon pail, and.
I pick him up.
Yeah.
You don't have to be the superhero
and stuff like that.
There's Marsh cleanups and stuff, but at the
same time, it doesn't have to be your mess to
pick it up either, right.
Because. Cause it'll affect you.
It's all, it's all, it's all the duck
Juju too, right?
Like it's, I mean, if you pick up 12 casings,
you're probably going to shoot your limited ducks.
Cause that's, I mean, that's how I put it.
If you pick up three Tim Horton's cups and a pizza
box and stuff like that, you probably gonna get
some, some good flocks comin your way, right?
Yeah.
Yup.
Not going to happen all the time, but I mean.
Better to be on the good side than the
bad side anyways.
And on the public side, I, I'd like to circle
back to your story there, Dennis, with
the person taking the video, because I remember
seeing that video and there's a bit of an
uproar and I remember watching, it's like, it
was hard to see in the video, but I'm like, I
think I know that guy.
I'm looking at it.
I got a pretty distinct profile.
And I watch it, and although there was
negativity surrounding it at first.
I was really impressed with what
you did afterwards.
You did the interview with the media, you
educated them as to what people are allowed
to do, what you were doing out there.
And I think, whether you're the type of person
to case your firearm or to tuck away your
harvest or to have it out displayed, engaging
the public when you're out there, educating
them what you're doing and why you're doing
that, just even if it's just a nod, Hey, how are
you doing?The friendly.
Always try to be friendly.
And that's what most of it is on the dyke there
too, unless I mean that people that are going
to give you a scowling look most of the time,
even when you're walking on the streets without a
gun or without stuff like that someone's going to.
Give you in your cammo.
Someone's going to give you, you
know, a bitch face.
I'm not going to really give you the time
of day either right?
Yeah.
But at the same time, it's, it's important to,
you know, let, let the people know that you're
there and you're doing everything legal and
everything's cool and you're not going there
to hurt nobody I mean.
Even that smile, that little bit of outreach
and all of a sudden, maybe you're not just
a scary guy with a gun.
Yeah. Okay.
Got it.
Yeah.
I can, I completely, I, I can see where it comes
from both sides where you know, where you've
got a guy walking with a gun and you might not
be comfortable around guns, just like most of
the general public's not because they're unaware
of what it can do.
But yeah, just a simple smile or a good morning
or have a good day, have a good rest of the
walk and be on your way.
And that's kinda, I think the most of the general
public along these dykes and stuff like
that, they kind of know.
Yeah.
They, they're, it's not their first rodeo
and most of the time, if it's a guy coming
down from Vancouver with his Mazzarati and
Starbucks wants to walk his Chihuahua on the
dyke and he might have a problem with it, but at
the same time, it might just take two minutes
of education and he might be on your side.
You never know right.
So. Yeah.
Yup.
Well, we've talked about etiquette, some tips,
some really good tips actually, if people
are really listening to this, there's some
great takeaways and educating the public.
Before we wrap things up, is there anything that
we should get out there?
Anything that we haven't talked about that,
should probably be said?
I don't know.
I think it, I think just based on.
I mean, we've only kind of touched on the
Delta, Ladner area.
I mean, there's lots of other places to hunt
waterfowl in ya know, Langley, White Rock,
Surrey, Pitt Meadows, Cloverdale, Chillwack,
all those things, right?
You can go anywhere.
I would just encourage people if, if they
want to get into the sport, don't be
afraid to jump in it.
It is an expensive hobby to do and stuff
like that, it will, it is an addiction.
Once you get into it, it, it's an addiction.
So if you have a significant other,
just make sure that they're ready, ready
for, ready for that addiction to start and
ready for, you know.
Ready for that three in the morning, jumping out
of bed, where are you going on this stormy.
Exactly.
Ready to squirrel away a little extra money for
a gun or some extra ammo or something like that.
But I would just say, just remember you're
representing all of us when you're out there.
It's not your, you're representing
yourself, but you're also representing
all of us out there.
So, if you treat wildlife and our resource and our
environment with a good hand, then I think it all
repay itself in the end.
The other thing I'd, I'd touch on is if right now
with the world that we're living in, everything
is getting developed.
Everything is getting overexposed.
We're dealing with tons of stuff against our
own environment here in British Columbia,
people move here to see what we have and
what we have to offer.
And right now we're, we're moving in a
certain direction to where we don't care
about our wildlife, is what I'm seeing.
I might be a little bit biased, but with our
government and stuff like that, BC is one
of the most renowned places to come to
in the whole world.
We live in the best place in the whole world.
Yeah, agreed.
And if we don't start caring about our
wetlands, our oceans, I, and I'm not given
a Greenpeace speech or anything like that, all
I'm asking is that you give maybe 20 minutes
of your time at, at on, maybe sign a petition or
maybe go to a meeting.
We're losing a lot of a lot of stuff
each and every day.
Whether it's to do with coal pollution or
loss of foreshore or loss of public ground
to hunt on, even big game or waterfowl.
I suggest that you get involved in that, and
especially if you're a newcomer because it's
for the, the newer comers that, it's for
our kids and their kids that are happening.
If we lose that, then well, not, we're not the
same British Columbia.
We're not the same Delta, we're not the
same Langley, we're not the same area anymore.
Right.
One of the biggest things I think that hurts us
as hunters is hunters bickering with hunters.
Ugh.
Social media.
We're never going to cure that one.
Social media is the worst thing in the world.
Yeah.
Because you know, the hunters are, are
bickering back and forth between each
other and, we're not sticking together.
So you know, we're, we're imploding ourselves.
You know, whereas the, we'll call them the,
leaf lickers is what I usually refer to them as.
What was that?
The leaf leaf lickers.
Oh. I like leaf lickers.
I haven't heard that one.
You know, they, they don't understand hunting.
We try our best to educate them you
know, some of us guys.
But, but for the most part, it's, it's our own
bickering back and forth between hunter, hunter
versus hunter and this group versus that group,
whether it be BC Wildlife Federation and resident
hunters of British Columbia, whatever,
bickering back and forth.
The, the, the end result is or do
what we do because we enjoy wildlife.
We enjoy being out in the, out in the
wilderness, whether it be fishing, hunting, hiking,
trapping, whatever it is.
But if we just learned to, you know, stop,
think, listen a little bit and and, and pitch
in and the, and the big thing is like,
the worst thing to, that I come across as
the keyboard warrior and, and I put my time
in, I go to meetings.
I've, I sat on the board of the Federation, I
was a director for BC Wildlife Federation
for the longest time, even after I was the
regional president.
We go, we put our time in and you put
all that work in and then somebody squishes
everything you did and it's, it's like, man,
what did I do that for?
Like why did I work so hard so somebody
could stop me?
And what it boiled down to is the keyboard
warrior and, and I, I'll question them quite
often like, Hey, I, I see you're complaining,
I've never seen you at a meeting before.
Yeah.
Right.
Why don't you. Put in your time.
Why don't you come out to a meeting and
put your time in?
Well, I don't, I don't do that.
I'd rather just do it from here.
Well, you don't have all the facts, so
please get the facts before you start.
The thing, the thing.
Typing on the keyboard.
That the social does is it gives, it
gives a perception.
It puts, it, you put yourself out there, when
you make comments or when you post something or
whatever, you're going to put yourself out
there, but you better be educated when you
put yourself out there.
I have guys, I got guys direct message
me all the time, Hey man, like where'd
you shoot your birds?
How do you shoot that many birds?
How are you so good?
How are you?
Blah, blah, blah.
I said, you know what the best duck hunters I know
don't have social media.
They don't do social media, they're an old
guy that goes out in his boat every day
and shoots his limit of ducks or he shoots
four ducks and he's content with that and he
stops after four cause that's all he can eat.
Or that's all he wants.
And he's, and he's, he's learned, like he's
followed the pattern.
He's done his homework, he's scouted, he's,
he's comfortable with how you, you know, his
shooting capabilities.
He lets the birds get him to 40 yards,
he, you know, knows how to set up decoys.
He's a competent caller.
You know, you go onto the marsh some days and
there's a guy with a duck call and you're like, you
just want to get in your boat and drive over and
cram it down his throat because it's just like.
Scares the birds away.
It doesn't even sound like a duck.
You know, but everybody's got to learn somewhere.
So the social platform, I mean.
It's like, here I've caught, I caught this
fish, and then the next guy posts, Hey, I
caught a bigger fish.
Hey, I've got a bigger fish, hey, I
got a bigger fish, I caught a bigger fish.
Well, man, good luck, good, good job, man.
Because the, the 70 year old guy that did it
in the 80s that caught twice as big as fish
as you, don't care.
And neither do half of the other ones.
But at the same time, it's, you're only
representing yourself in, in that type of way.
So if you want to be that guy, you go ahead
and be that guy, you're gonna shoot yourself
in your own foot right?
So.
Yeah.
But at the same time, you can also move in a
more positive direction and guiding people
or helping, helping people know the rules
or, you know, maybe helping them out with
a little extra info or something like that.
But the real warriors are the guys that are
going to bat every, every, every day for us.
Whether it's contributing to BC Wildlife or,
or go to, you know, region 2 meetings or
region 3 meetings or region 5 meetings.
They're all, it's all important to here in BC.
It's not just this local aspect to it.
I mean, it's, it, it goes as far as Cranbrook,
Prince George, all the way up there right.
All the way through our natural resources, and
right now, the way that I see it going and stuff
like that, it's kind of getting put in the back
pocket and we really don't care about it.
And all the leaf lickers as Dennis would say, when
the, when the hunters and the fishermen battle
against each other, they just sit there
with a bowl of popcorn and love it, right?
They just eat it all up, right.
They, they, they want to see us turn against
each other and I get it, we're in a, we're,
it's, it's a sport and it's competitive.
People want to be at the top of the chain.
They want to, they want to go out there
and people want to be successful though too.
And don't get me wrong, there are only, the
only way that you're going to be successful
is by going out there and repetition, doing it
lots and lots of times.
But in saying that Jens' and as you go out there
and I don't know, and it's happened to me
many times and then same with you, you and I have
hunted together before.
And you go out there on a day and
you don't get any.
Oh yeah.
But you still learn something.
Oh, did.
You know, I think the definition of success
has to be what you're talking about there, is
social media sometimes skews success as, well
you have to have a pickup truck full of birds.
Yeah.
Or you got to have the biggest fish,
but success is what?
Did you go there and have fun?
Yeah. Did you learn something?
Yeah. Did you make some bonds?
Well and look at Jens', says he had a pickup
truck full of full of birds or, or you know,
your sleds full of green heads that you shot
that day sort of thing.
We didn't come by that easily, we've worked
our way to that.
We learned, it's called the Knoxville life,
the knox of hunting.
You go out and you learn, Oh, I didn't do it right.
Biggest thing guys can learn is, go
get permission, go hunt private land
doesn't really matter.
Biggest thing is scouting, concealment
and decoy placement.
And then the fourth would be learn your
firearm, right Jens?
Oh, and you're calling and all that
stuff too right?
That com, that, calling comes with time.
But yeah, biggest thing is like, how
did you do so well?
And I've always said that I've put my time
in scouting, put by, you know, fuel in the
tank, miles on the truck.
When you get there, make your hide as most
natural as you can.
So you use hide around you to build your blind.
You laugh at these, some of these guys, you go
by and you'll see a nice goose spread out in the
field somewhere, and this blind sticks out like you
took your hammer to your thumb and stuck it out in
the middle of the field.
It's got, it's yellow and a green field
sort of thing, right?
So one of the biggest thing is concealment.
If you, if you stay hidden and match what
the terrain around you is, here's your
success rate most likely it's going to go up.
Yeah, and you'll learn, you'll learn from that.
That's succ, that's another thing of
successfulness is like when you go out there
and you see birds flaring off you or, or your, your
down or your upwind of an elk and it smells you,
you know what I mean?
You're going to learn from that experience
when you've got a big six point bull walking
in front of you and you're on the wrong
side of the wind.
Well, Hey, man.
Off in heart beat
Yeah, that thing takes off.
Well, I bet you if you're, if you're
into it, you're gonna learn from that
experience right.
Same with whatever, moose calling, or when
you show up in the rut.
It's not just to do with that, it's getting to
know what you really want to get into, right?
So the more you know about it and the more you
experience it, the better you're going to be.
And it doesn't mean that you need to put
eight green heads on the tailgate.
Doesn't mean that you need to have a six
point bull hanging in your, in your man cave.
Doesn't mean that you need to catch the
biggest steelhead.
And, but it does mean that you can go out there
and you can have a good time doing it and enjoy.
The outdoors. What it.
The process.
You know, w what, what it has to offer.
Yeah.
You learn every time out there.
Every time you can learn something new out there.
I mean, and there ain't, there ain't a time that
I haven't went out and, I go out a lot, where
you don't learn something and now you get it.
You get guys that at certain stages in there,
I guess you could say their hunting career
or their fishing career where they're successful.
But they want to share their success and
show other people.
They get more, they get more gratitude with
bringing other people out there and watching
them light up on, on, you know, hooking a steelhead
or, or shooting a couple of wigeon or, you know,
watching birds work or bugling in an elk,
you know what I mean?
Like that, all that stuff, just talking
about that stuffs makes the hair on my back oo,
my neck stand up right.
So, and then when you see a, a new comer, or
even even a guy that's just been in it for
five to six years and you've already seen the
show, you've already seen that Cirque de
Solei parade plenty of times, but they haven't.
Right.
And then, you know, they're hooting and
hollering after it all is successes.
I mean, that's, that's, that's when
you know that you're doing something right.
Hell, I still hoot and holler when
I get one down.
Every time, buddy, every time.
I told you it's an addiction, you
go out there all the time, right?
Oh yeah, for sure.
You've got to have an, I think if you want to get
into hunting, you gotta have an understanding
wife, number two, you gotta have an
understanding wife, number three, you gotta
have an understanding wife, number four,
you've got to be spending money on your wife.
And number five.
Put a fat ring on her finger.
Number five, you just have to have
an understanding of people around you
that accept you for who you are, right?
So it ain't easy and no one ever says, and if you
can find someone that'll share all that passion
with you and stuff, kudos to that because.
What I have found made things a little bit
easier was that a hundred mile diet thing eh.
Yeah.
Right.
That did.
People are a little more interested in
trying organic meat.
Yeah.
So they'd be like, Hey, Dennis, could I
have a duck or could I have a snow goose
or a pheasant or what?
No problem, I'll give you one.
Yeah.
Or could I have like a, even a package of elk
hamburger or something?
It's the first thing that goes on an open
table anytime anyways.
I go to an event, I go to an event and it'd
be a just a social, like a gathering,
whatever, bring an appie, I'll always bring a
selection of, say some smoke fish and so, a
couple of different, so some ducks and goose
sausage, maybe some elk sausage, whatever.
And it's usually the first thing gone
at least parties.
And they're like, what's this?
What's this?
So I put these little flags in there, elk
sausage, you know, goose sausage, whatever.
People try it and they're like, wow,
this is pretty good.
Man.
One of the things we do is the waterfowl
heritage days, right.
Right.
So waterfowl heritage days, quite often we
see single moms now.
They have a son or a daughter that's kind of
interested in hunting, but mom doesn't know
anything about hunting.
So they find out what waterfowl heritage days.
When we bring a out, I find it, you
know, pretty fun.
We've had some kids that they barely set foot out
of the house, they don't do sports, they, you
know, their, their body said, Hey, there's this
waterfowl heritage days thing, where get to go
hunting and shoot, try to shoot ducks and geese.
We always do a lunch with them, and in the
past we did like duck fajitas or a duck
chili or goose chili, that sort of thing.
And I, I kinda snicker cause you see these,
these single moms come and they'd have like
their, their skirt business attire on,
drop the kid off in the morning, come back later.
And you know, and they're miffed that you've
asked them to meet him at Wellington park at
five in the morning and these poor single moms
got to drag her butt out of bed and get the
kid down there right.
Come back at lunchtime when we've got a big
lunch spread put out, and they kind of turn
their nose up on it, and I have said to a few of
them, look, just try it.
They try a duck fajita or goose fajita and
whatever, and if you throw it in the
garbage, you won't hurt my feelings, but
at least you tried it.
Right.
But nine times out of 10 they would try it,
or maybe even nine and a half times out of
10 they would try it and they're like, Hey,
this was pretty good.
Yeah.
So you know, on the goal then it was to try to get
all the kids to harvest a duck, and even the
ones that didn't, quite often, there was some
kids that harvested two or three ducks and they'd
all go home with a duck.
We'd send them home with a recipe.
They go home.
They'd go home with a lot more than that.
And they'd try it.
They'd go home with a lot more than that
though hey Dennis.
That day changes lot of those kids' lives and
you'd be a surprised on, that might change
their path in life.
You know, with a single mom dealing with a
teenage boy, I mean that, maybe without a male
influence in their life, when they get to maybe
that one or two days a year that they get to go
out and they get to be with the boys are, or the
girls too, because they can hunt too as well.
But for that, special time in that moment,in
that day they go, they tell all their friends at
school, they tell their grandpa, they tell their
mom, they tell everybody how great that was.
I don't think we've ever had a sour
experience on a waterfowl heritage days.
Not yet.
And, and some, and some years we've been
out there and we've only shot what, three
ducks, but some days we're out there.
I mean, some waterfowl heritage days we're out
there we shoot 20, 20, 30 snow geese right?
Yeah.
Just the luck of the draw.
But it's hunting, but it's always those, no
matter if you shoot, I shoot a bird or you
don't shoot a bird, that day from right
there and they will forever remember that.
I promise you that because they won't.
I know it for a fact Jens.
I get guys coming into the store that you
brought out, that are my age basically, or just
a little younger than me, and they still talk
about that day, right?
Yup.
And that's the day that basically
groomed them into, you know, maybe starting
waterfowl, you know?
So if you ever get that opportunity where you got
to a kid that's going to tap you on the shoulder,
that you know, maybe maybe you put aside a
weekend day for him or, or, you know, take him
out for a night flight or take her out for a night
flight or whatever right?
We encourage anybody in anybody, and it's
never too late to get into the sport.
I mean, uh, we had my oldest hunter in
the shop this year was 104 years old.
He, he shot his own deer and dragged
it out right so.
104.
Wow.
That's what I filled out the license, I was like
oohh man, you're old.
He's like.
Yup.
Yeah.
He had his, he had his little.
Yeah.
It's still, you know.
Philipino caretaker pay, pay the pay, the license
fee and stuff like that.
But, he said he was going hunting right.
But I mean, you deal with kids from five
years old, all the way up to 90 years old.
You're never too late to start in
the sport, whether you're male or female.
It's, it should be welcomed with open arms
and I mean, if you're going to snub your
nose at people that are eager to learn and
want to get in your sport, then you might
be in it for the wrong reason right now right.
What I have noticed as a, as a CORE instructor
over the years is how many, how many women and
children I've taught.
like it used to be pretty much predominantly
a male sport.
Oh the numbers are going.
Now that there's so many ladies and, and kids
that I've taught and probably more kids than,
Oh, pretty much almost all the kids that have
shot here in Ladner.
At one time, I'd probably cross paths with them,
whether it be as a CORE instructor or as
when we run the Delta Ladner Rod and Gun
Club Junior Program.
And what do you attribute that to?
My mentors.
Yeah.
You know, my mentors taught me and how, I
mean, how it came about with me getting into some
of these, these, these kids involved, my mentors
taught me well, there was nobody to take over the
youth program at our gun club, so we took it over.
As time went on, like my sister got involved, she
would tell her friends, so then now there's a few
girls getting involved.
Now, again, like we talked about the a
hundred the a hundred mile diet, a lawyer
friend of mine, she and her daughters were vegan.
And they came to me one day and they said,
Dennis we, we'd like to take the CORE.
And I'm like, kind of threw me off guard
that they wanted to take the CORE cause
they're vegans.
And I said, why?
And she said, well, I'm dating a fella and
he's a hunter and we tried some deer and we
thought it was good.
And it's like organic, it's healthy, like
there's no growth hormone in it, so we want to
learn how to hunt.
So I taught her and her two daughters
and, and a girlfriend or hers, the CORE.
And these, these four girls, well, three of
them for sure, that I'm still in contact
with, they love to duck hunt, they love
to deer hunt right.
And they love to eat it now too.
They love
eating it.
You know what, I attribute that
to a few things.
Like you're saying, the a hundred mile diet,
yeah, I mean it's, it's popular, people want
to be eating organic, they want to eat local.
And we find a lot more people coming through,
a lot of hipster types that are coming in that
just want to be able to provide for themselves.
There seems to be a desire for people
to go out and be self sufficient.
I don't know what's driving that exactly.
If there's a uncertainty in their own life or
if they're watching the news too much and
seeing all the negativity and thinking, well,
I better be prepared, but we do see those
types coming in.
And as much as hunters, as we look at the doom
and gloom of kind of where things are going
with the encroachment and population growth
and the lack of, the limited access that
just as time ticks on.
I also see the other side of that.
The face of hunting itself seems to be
changing the the reasons that people are looking
to get into it seem to be changing and I think
what you guys mentioned earlier, for these people
who might be intimidated to go out and go to the
gun club, or to strike up conversation from with
some of the old boys.
Joining a club, putting in that time to meet
the the old guard and learn from them is a,
is an integral part.
It's, it's a way that this sport is going to
continue and in the same respect, the old guard
is going to have to take a look and realize that
some of these hunters aren't really doing,
they're not dressing like how we would dress.
They're not, they're not exactly the type
of person that we are, but they are enjoying
the same sport, they're doing it legally, they're
doing it ethically.
That's right.
I think that's a huge component to it.
I think there's a little give and take on both,
both sides of it and stuff where, you know,
the good old boys might have to give up a, a
little bit of their knowledge to the new
up and comers so that you can all join up
and, and, and conquer the hunting and here
in British Columbia.
But I think just touching on the hundred miles
stuff, I think people are starting to try
to understand where their food comes from.
And I think, I think a lot of people, it's a
scary world out there, it's moving a mile a
minute, I mean, a, you can't even keep up.
That's why I, I mean, we don't watch the
news in our place it or anything like that.
It's just bad, bad stuff to do because I mean.
It's not worth it.
In the short, in the short time that you
have here on this earth.
You gotta be focused on the people that you
care about, the things that you want to do and
the surrounding your area, your atmosphere
and stuff like that.
And if you're too caught up in other
people's worlds and stuff like that.
You're not going to enjoy life.
No, you're not going to get there right.
You're not, you're not going to get the
most satisfaction.
So touching back on where your food
comes from, yeah.
Do I have to grab a duck sometimes and
wring its neck and, and put it out as misery,
yeah, you bet I have had to do that a couple
thousand times, but at the same time, I feel
remorse for that animal.
Every big game animal I've taken, every,
even every duck that I've taken.
When, when you kill something, it, if you
don't feel a bit of remorse, then you're in
it for the wrong reason because it is taking
another things life, but you're using it
to sustain your life.
You're, you're, you're using all parts of that.
I, I totally agree with you Jens and I, you know,
I've shot lots of big game animals, lots of
birds over the years, and, and people have
asked me that lots of times like, what's it
like, as a hunter and, and what's like when you
harvest something, and I've said to them many
times, every emotion goes through your,
through your body right.
You're, you're excited because, Hey, I'm ha,
I have this opportunity to harvest this elk
or this deer or this goose or whatever.
And then you also, you're happy to be out
there with your buddies, you're excited, all
that's going through your mind, Hey, we're having
a good time and all, here's my opportunity.
So you harvest that animal and you knock
it down and now you're like, Oh man, I just,
I just shot an animal.
Now, so now there's a sad feeling, right?
Yeah, I just harvest this, but Hey, it's for
my family, we're going to eat it, it's, you know.
You respect it though.
You resp, you respect the thing and.
Totally.
You respect the game that you chase and you respect
the game that you're in.
And it, it's, it's not, it's not for the faint
of heart, I should say, but at the same time,
like, I know where my food comes from.
I know, I know that I worked hard for this
for whether it's meat or whether it's even
vegetables out of the garden, like, I mean.
I don't fight vegans, I don't fight vegetarians,
I respect them.
They have their own way of living.
Their choice.
That's fine and stuff like that.
But if, if a certain group's going to come
at me because they don't like the way that
I harvest animals or the way I kill animals
or anything like that.
I mean, my rebuttal them is, you know, quit
eating all their food.
I mean, they're, I mean, they're eating
vegetables, you know what I mean?
I mean, we can go there, but at the same time,
it's like, you know, you don't want to.
I've had that argument.
I've had that argument with, with the lady
once, she's like, I can't believe you would
go out and kill animals.
And I go, well, it's no different than
you go into the store and purchasing yours.
The difference is, I know where mine came from,
mine didn't go through the slaughter process.
Well, I'm a vegan, I said well, what's
the difference?
You're upset that we're, that we've harvested
a living being.
My example was like, you don't think that
carrot was sitting there just living its life.
Just say, Hey, this is a great life, and all
sudden you grab it by its hair, yank it out of
the ground, wash it off and started eating it.
But the other thing is.
If it was screaming, it'd be a completely
different thing.
Everything's living.
The other thing is too, it's like you get, I just
don't want to pick on that certain group, but
like, I mean you get, you get a crop of vegetables.
Well that, that the vegetables now, they
all get sprayed.
So bugs die from that, you know, just because
you have to eat those vegetables, so they have
to be contained, so they have to get sprayed.
So mice, rats, bugs, all living creatures that
you're having a problem with us harvesting are
do, are getting harvested off or killed off because
you were wanting to eat this plant or something
like that right?
So, you know, it's touche here, touche there.
It's the circle.
Yeah.
It's like, what can you do right?
But at the same time I've, you don't want to
argue with that point.
You just want to say, Hey.
That's a tough thing to argue.
Yeah.
You, you live your, you live your style of life
and I'll keep in my lane and live my style
and I'll, I'll help people that are in mo,
in the way of my life and you help people
the way that yours is.
But I'm not going to go out and bash on
the way that you live life because that's
the way you live it.
You go right ahead.
You have your, your own choice, your own
way of doing that.
But this is how I want to live mine,
and this is the animal that I want to eat.
You know.
A lot of, a lot of what I enjoy about
being out there is, you know, being with my
friends or my family, whatever, you know.
Enjoying nature and harvesting and
gathering a lot of our, a lot of our food.
Like, so while we're out there, I've done the
fiddlehead collecting.
Yeah.
You can get, we grabbed Morel mushrooms when
they're in hot, you know, when they're around.
Yeah.
Shaggy manes, all that sort of thing right.
So it's all part of being out there.
All right.
So, and people don't understand that it's,
it's more than just out there harvesting
animals or trying to hunt animals.
It's just being in nature, enjoying it.
Living.
Away from the city.
Yeah.
Well, getting away from the city.
Yeah, it's living right.
It's a different, different way of living.
You gotta respect that.
If you respect mine, I'll respect yours, let's
just put it that way.
Correct.
Right.
And it's, and it's unfortunate.
I mean, everybody has an opinion.
It's, some people just don't understand how
you live, how I live, how Travis lives, and
then they, they got to put their 2 cents in.
And don't get me wrong, it's, it's tough taken
an animal's life.
Like it's not.
Oh definitely.
It's not an easy thing.
It's not just, we go out there and, you know,
we shoot an animal, put the blood on our face
and say yeah, like beat our chest and say, Hey,
this is what, this is what we're here to do,
and stuff like that.
It's, it's a, it's a thing of privilege.
It's, it's, you come in there and you, you work
hard for what you want to do and it's not easy.
So that's why I respect.
I have a little bit more respect for those
people that are, are capable of doing that.
Knowing where their food comes from, maybe getting
their hands a little bit dirty, maybe working
hard for what they're entitled to right.
Got a more intimate relationship with
the life and death.
Yeah.
And that creates a greater value
in most people, understanding that.
Well, I think you touched on something that
you said, it's, it's, it's, it's not easy.
No.
And people who think that being a hunter's
easy, it's not.
There's easier ways to get our meat.
The hunters that are successful, they work
hard to be successful.
The weekend warrior, who thinks it's just as
easy just to jump in the boat, throw it a dozen
decoys, and go out and harvest a bunch of ducks.
They'll figure that out quick.
They're not going to be very successful.
Yeah, they'll learn, they'll learn fast.
Right?
You have to put the time in, work hard at it.
It's, it's far from easy.
You know, you gotta, you gotta expect that
you're going to go on that elk hunt and not
harvest an animal.
Go and learn a little bit and the next
year you might be successful or have a,
have a great chance at an, at an animal.
Get an encounter yeah.
Right.
So I mean, an example, my dad, him and I
have hunted lots over the years.
My dad has never had the opportunity to hunt big
bull elk during the rut.
And this year I had the pleasure to take
them along with me.
We harvested an elk a few days before,
but I have my dad, with an opportunity,
I had a bull.
I called the bull within 25 yards of
him and he never made the shot because you
couldn't tell if it was a legal animal or not.
But I remember the look on his face when that
bull's standing 25 yards ahead of him, bugling his
face off in the trees.
And dad, I'm looking at dad and dad just
kind of looks back and it was over in
a blink of an eye.
The wind had changed on us, the elk winded us and
he was gone like a ghost.
And I looked at my dad and said,
how close was he?
Cause he goes like 75 feet.
Yeah.
And he goes, I've never been that close.
He says, I thought I was going to get run over.
And I'm like, and I said to dad, I said, you know
how close you were to harvesting that elk?
And he goes, no.
I said, it's like you're at the world series
game, you're down by two runs, you got two
runners on base, and you crank one and it's going
out of the park and that outfielder catches it
as it's going over the wall and there's two out.
Said, you were that close to harvest in that elk.
And my dad kind of looked down on me.
He says, you're right, it was one hell of
a cool experience.
He says, we never got him, we were this close,
but it was so fun.
That's what it's about.
It is, you know.
If you make the success of the hunt, the harvest
of the animal, you're going to have a lot of
disappointed outings and lots of people will end
up giving up on that.
But if you make the success, the preparation,
the time in, the I don't know, I'm a gear junkie.
The enjoyement of the experience.
I'm a gear junkie, I like collecting the
kit and then you go out and you're hunting.
Your outdoor is, you're observing
what surrounds you.
You're a part of the nature, you're
part of the process.
And then guess what?
If you do happen to harvest something, that's
the icing on the cake.
That's a bonus.
Yeah.
A total bonus.
I mean, you don't go there every time
expecting to come home with a truckload of, of
birds or deer or elk or whatever the story is.
Whatever you might be hunting, but just be
out there and join, enjoying the, the nature
and the wildlife and the Lake you're sitting
beside, you know.
It's just part, it's all part of it.
And when you harvest something, it's a
bonus to the trip.
Well, I think we've got a lot of material here.
Any new hunter listening to this will have some
great tips and tricks.
And I think we've really hammered home some,
some key points here.
Yrah, yeah and I think like Jens touched on, he
says, don't be afraid to, you know, be a hunter,
be become a hunter.
If, if you, I think it's something you enjoy it.
Come and try it.
Yeah.
You either love it or you hate it.
Right Jens?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They're all in or you're not all in right.
But at the same time, it's, I'm
proud to be a hunter.
I know all you guys are proud to be hunters, and
there's lots of hunters out there and huntresses.
And everyone that's in the outdoor community,
whether it's fish and hunt and trap and hiking,
camping, outdoors stuff or whatever, we all,
we all share the same environment and it's a,
it's up to, up to us to have it and keep it going
and all that stuff too.
So just don't be afraid to stick your neck
out there a little bit and, and then don't
be afraid to jump in with the feet first.
Don't be afraid to ask Cindy to dance.
Yeah, exactly.
I never really liked her.
You liar.
Does Cindy know?
Yeah, I hope not.
I mean, she might be listening, I don't know.
She will after she sees it on your
Instagram feed.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
All right.
Wanna wrap it up?
Yeah. Sounds good.