WEBVTT

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This file was generated by Descript 

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Alan: So, Hey, how's it going?

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Mario: Hey Alan, how's it going?

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I know.

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Alan: Where we call me?

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Need more

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practice at this,

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Mario: yeah, I know

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we need

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to start recording

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automatically.

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I should turn that on.

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So

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it starts recording from the
beginning and we don't have to worry

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about it.

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And so it captures, it,

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captures

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everything from the beginning.

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Alan: So yeah, last time you
were having issues with this this

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session re auto recording right
off my recordings, at least anyway,

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Mario: Yeah.

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Unfortunately, I haven't been able

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to spend any time working on this, on the

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product itself because I've
been working on, you know,

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Alan: doing the actual other

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Mario: stuff.

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Yeah.

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So actually, that's one of the
things I want to talk to you about

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today.

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So yeah, one of the things that I
wanted to talk to you about is this idea

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that I have to force myself
to spend more time working on

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marketing, you know, related items.

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So,

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Alan: Yes.

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Mario: so I'm thinking about splitting
my time somehow in, half the time

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working on the product itself, and
half the time working on marketing

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related stuff.

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Alan: Yeah.

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I know I know the feeling

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well, it's, it's really difficult to

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balance

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these, right.

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Because it's a, you think, well, I

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can't get my marketing stuff

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done

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until

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I've sorted this for the
product, because then it's not

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right.

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Or it's changing.

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And then when you

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spend

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too much time

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on the marketing side,
you're like, oh my God,

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the

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product hasn't

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changed in two weeks.

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So you feel like, yeah, it's,
it's a tricky balance to get

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Mario: yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Alan: that'll change over time as

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well.

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I mean, I think at least for the

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stuff like landing

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page and stuff, or at

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least the basic marketing material, yet

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once you've hit a certain point, you'll
be like, okay, I can step away from that.

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Then I guess, bouncing
between the two, rather

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than trying to

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split your week, half And half

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is going to be probably more
keep your sanity in the long run,

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right?

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Mario: Yes.

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Yes.

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And that's, that's the tricky part.

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So considering that at least for
myself, Don't do well with, and

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probably most people don't do well
with context switching, Right.

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So it's a, it's a real productivity killer

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to be switching context all the time.

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So I, I'm more productive when I'm,
when I can focus large blocks of time,

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you

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know, working on, on something.

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So even if it's a coding

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session, right, I, I do better if I have

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a,

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at least a couple of hours to dedicate
to coding as opposed to, you know,

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just an hour or half an hour here and
there, I can't really get anywhere.

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Alan: So hard to, yeah,
you can't get anywhere.

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in that amount of time.

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I mean, this is what makes it so hard.

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This, you know, this idea of trying
to, you know, do client work, I'll

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do other work, you know, working
on multiple projects and things.

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It's, it's great.

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In theory, it just, it's
really hard to do in real life.

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you I think I'm the only
same way to do it is

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to

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make sure that.

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Block out a certain amounts

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of your time to say, okay, I am going to

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be spending three hours
tomorrow evening to

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work on a thing and not trying

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to think, well, I'll

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just

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squeeze this in at the end of doing this.

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It's

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just like, it's no good for you.

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Productivity sucks.

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And also I

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think it just makes you feel

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more anxious about it as well, because
you feel everything's like piling up

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rather than being able to think I
made significant progress on this.

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Right.

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You feel that you're just constantly
fighting things as opposed to,

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getting

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Mario: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And so taking that into

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account, I've been thinking about

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maybe splitting my

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time in a way that is like maybe

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a

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week, you know, a

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whole

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week I dedicate to coding dedicated to

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the product itself and then another week,
dedicated to marketing related stuff.

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And so go

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back and forth between
that, a week, coding a week

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marketing

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Alan: As I say, you'll probably find a

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certain changes happen at certain
times of the product as well.

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Right.

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You'll hit a point where it's like,
okay, I need to spend the next two or

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three weeks focusing on development
because marketing is looking after

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itself an hour and I can shift focus.

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But yeah, I think something like that

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Mario: Yeah, because part of,
part of the marketing is also, you

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know, social media, social media
posts and, and stuff like that.

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That can be sort of automated.

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If I, if I spend, let's

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say a

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week creating not the whole,
not the entire time doing that,

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but as part of that week of
work on marketing, I could,

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Create some, posts or,

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you know, some Twitter,
posts that I can schedule

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and,

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and, you know, stack

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them up.

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And so the following
week, when I'm working on

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coding,

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then, then those can be, you know,

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Alan: Stuff still active, even though

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you're not actively

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Mario: yeah, exactly.

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So

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it's like dripping those those,

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Alan: Not just disappeared off the
face of the planet for a few weeks.

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Right.

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Just cause you're

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Mario: yeah.

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Yeah.

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So something like that find ways to
automate and still be doing something

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in that front while focusing
on coding and focusing on

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the product.

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Alan: And of course,
then you've got the point

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when you actually, when we actually
start having more customers

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who are going to start having

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more support requests, then.

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That's another constant, which is

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going to be in the

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mix always.

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I mean, that's not something
you can put off for a week.

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Right.

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Mario: Yes, exactly.

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Alan: I think leaving

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space in the future,

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you know, shed your brain schedule for

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that as well as it's.

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Yeah.

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That's

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Mario: Yeah.

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So, yeah, regardless of

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whether I'm working on
the product itself or the

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other things that I need to work on

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I would have

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to be focusing

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on, on support for sure.

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Alan: No.

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So far, so far you, with
the users that you've got

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how's the support been ha as in how many
support requests have you been getting?

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Is it like a few occasionally

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Mario: far I haven't gotten
any, any support requests

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I only got one for,

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Backup recordings then they

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Alan: Oh yeah.

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right.

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Mario: Because

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Alan: Cause it's manual at the

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moment.

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Isn't it?

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You have to

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request

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Mario: yeah, they have to request
them from me And then, so I

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can retrieve

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them And

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send them to them.

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So I got one of those

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requests

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early on

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because it was an issue,
but that's been fixed.

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So I haven't gotten any

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more requests like that.

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Alan: And that's something you

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can at least to a point
automate in the future as well.

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Right.

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So that's, that's something that.

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you can just tackle when it's, when
it becomes something that will take

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up a significant part of your time.

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It's like, okay, now
it's time to automate it.

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Right.

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Rather than wasting time

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Mario: Yes.

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And and then I got
another, it wasn't really a

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support request.

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One more,

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more feedback or, you know,
just something that, happened

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with the app you know, they submitted a, a

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message, you know, just
indicating what had happened.

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Kind of

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a little, glitch

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something I need to

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look into.

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So it kind of is a

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support request, but

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it's not it's

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it was like a one-off kind of

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Alan: it is a one at very,

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exactly.

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It's not, not the type of thing.

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So this is something that

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again, I've only got, you know, this
handful of like beta users at the moment.

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And this is, this actually comes into
something I was going to mention today

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as well, is this the expectations
of my Japanese users are quite

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different from the expectations.

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I'll lose the the patterns I'm seeing from

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all the first few Japanese users
of Japanese users versus non

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Japanese users is quite different.

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And there's, there's definitely this
aspect of like tell me what to do.

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Versus, let me figure it out for myself.

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So I'm kind of seeing this
repeatedly is rather than for

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instance some of my BT users in
the UK like just give me a log in.

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Let, let me poke around,
let me work it out.

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And the difference here with the users
are like, what can we through it?

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Show me how to use it.

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Show me not just how to use it
perhaps, but how I should be using it.

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And that's something that's, I guess it's
a change of mindset that I think I've got

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to make is I think for the longest time.

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And I think all of the products I've
built myself, as opposed to, for clients

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who are part of another company, I like
this idea of, I guess something like the

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original delicious or flicker or the,
the, the old school web applications

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where they were like, we've built a thing.

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It's does things, there's features,
there's things like tags and

00:08:06.333 --> 00:08:08.463
things, and you figure it out.

00:08:08.553 --> 00:08:11.133
It's the, there isn't a
prescribed way of doing it.

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It's, it's just, it does things.

00:08:13.353 --> 00:08:16.263
And then over time,
people will find patterns.

00:08:16.263 --> 00:08:19.885
There's a lot of human hacking of
making it work the way they want it to.

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And I guess my product design tendency
is to think of things like that as

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well is to think things in that way.

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It's like, okay, if I add this
feature, then it could be used in

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these five different ways and I'll
let people figure it out and, you

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know, work out what works best.

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And the thing that's a difference of
most web applications that I'm finding

00:08:43.103 --> 00:08:47.093
today, which are now as I've, I'm kind
of more aware of this and I'm looking

00:08:47.093 --> 00:08:51.053
a little bit more critical about their
onboarding and the way the interfaces

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are constructed and the word yeah.

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The way they're designed
and the copy they use.

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And say the onboarding particularly
they like use do this, use

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this, like this, and that's it.

00:09:03.758 --> 00:09:08.754
And that's really difficult for, I
guess, for me internally to feel like

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I have the confidence to do that.

00:09:10.254 --> 00:09:10.494
Right.

00:09:11.394 --> 00:09:16.524
I mean, I have, in my mind, a, an ideal
usage pattern of how the application

00:09:16.914 --> 00:09:22.174
would is used best, both from experience
and from designing it in a particular

00:09:22.174 --> 00:09:24.214
way, but I've been very, very hesitant.

00:09:24.904 --> 00:09:28.234
Telling people to use it like that,
just because I'm like, well, who am I?

00:09:28.254 --> 00:09:30.064
Who am I to tell you how
to run your business?

00:09:30.064 --> 00:09:35.074
You know, so I can advise, but I don't
feel that, you know, I, I'm not going

00:09:35.074 --> 00:09:37.744
to storm in there and say, okay, you
need to do this and you need to do that.

00:09:37.744 --> 00:09:38.294
And don't do that.

00:09:38.294 --> 00:09:43.046
So the product is, is almost like
a light touch it onwards probably

00:09:43.046 --> 00:09:47.516
too late to touch in telling
you what to do or how to use it.

00:09:47.516 --> 00:09:53.658
And, and I'm now rethinking that just
because they, everybody I've spoke

00:09:53.658 --> 00:09:55.378
to is using it in a different way.

00:09:55.378 --> 00:09:57.852
All of the B2 users tend to be used
in a different, and that's fine.

00:09:57.922 --> 00:09:58.602
That's good.

00:09:58.842 --> 00:10:01.482
But at the same time, they're
also like, am I doing it wrong?

00:10:01.722 --> 00:10:02.952
And I'm like, there is no wrong.

00:10:03.492 --> 00:10:03.912
And they're like

00:10:05.382 --> 00:10:06.792
that you're, you're using it differently.

00:10:06.792 --> 00:10:09.522
And I'm like, yes, but that
doesn't mean it's wrong.

00:10:09.732 --> 00:10:14.262
It's just that what fits with
your business and, and that's

00:10:14.682 --> 00:10:17.502
causing anxiety for my users.

00:10:17.591 --> 00:10:21.161
Because there feel like, ah, I,
I, I feel that I'm doing it wrong.

00:10:21.161 --> 00:10:24.461
I don't know what you want me to do here,
so I'm not going to do anything because

00:10:24.461 --> 00:10:25.781
I don't know what I should be doing.

00:10:26.471 --> 00:10:29.771
And I'm like, okay, that's,
that's thrown me a little bit.

00:10:31.721 --> 00:10:37.794
So with that in mind, I'm trying
to address it in both my marketing

00:10:38.124 --> 00:10:40.071
onboarding of my marketing materials.

00:10:40.071 --> 00:10:44.391
Just so it sets the tone for
why you should be using this,

00:10:44.391 --> 00:10:45.891
not just what it does, but

00:10:46.671 --> 00:10:47.811
this is the problem.

00:10:48.111 --> 00:10:50.331
I guess this is a marketing and

00:10:50.448 --> 00:10:53.928
product design thing to consider
right from a marketing aspect.

00:10:53.928 --> 00:10:59.040
You know, we the almost like recommended,
you know, the, the, the known this

00:10:59.040 --> 00:11:02.190
is how we should do it is stating
the problem that somebody has and

00:11:02.670 --> 00:11:07.470
how this application will help make
your life better by doing these.

00:11:08.595 --> 00:11:11.791
Rather than just saying
it does this have at it.

00:11:11.791 --> 00:11:17.839
So I'm trying to rethink the like
the pitch as to make it clearer as

00:11:17.839 --> 00:11:20.194
to what not just what the problem is.

00:11:20.194 --> 00:11:24.064
It does that already, but how
that our product will solve it.

00:11:24.127 --> 00:11:28.927
In what specific way it's like by doing
this, you will have this outcome be

00:11:28.927 --> 00:11:33.037
much more clear about what I expect
you to do if you use this product.

00:11:33.121 --> 00:11:35.774
I think that'll set the
expectations going in a little more.

00:11:35.774 --> 00:11:40.239
But then as part of the onboarding be
very basically have a stronger hand

00:11:40.239 --> 00:11:42.279
with telling people what to do next.

00:11:42.459 --> 00:11:47.229
Like, you should do this at this time,
and this is when you'll do it next.

00:11:47.529 --> 00:11:52.569
So be much more opinionated in
how I expect people to use it.

00:11:52.664 --> 00:11:53.174
And

00:11:54.314 --> 00:11:55.874
I, it makes me nervous.

00:11:55.874 --> 00:11:57.224
It makes me kind of

00:11:57.554 --> 00:12:02.189
makes me feel anxious because I'm like,
you know, They don't want to do It like

00:12:02.376 --> 00:12:02.826
Mario: Yeah.

00:12:02.946 --> 00:12:03.336
Yeah.

00:12:03.786 --> 00:12:04.476
That's interesting.

00:12:04.566 --> 00:12:06.426
It makes me wonder how other

00:12:06.426 --> 00:12:08.496
products handle that and how

00:12:08.676 --> 00:12:09.966
the Japanese culture

00:12:09.966 --> 00:12:12.036
deals with other software.

00:12:12.036 --> 00:12:12.396
Because if

00:12:12.676 --> 00:12:13.866
you know, a

00:12:13.936 --> 00:12:16.656
couple of products come
to mind, like notion, for

00:12:16.656 --> 00:12:17.226
example,

00:12:17.676 --> 00:12:20.706
where you can do so much
and it's so, you know

00:12:20.719 --> 00:12:22.099
Alan: The classic do everything's right.

00:12:22.099 --> 00:12:22.369
Yeah.

00:12:22.369 --> 00:12:23.539
And at least the, of the modern

00:12:23.766 --> 00:12:24.186
Mario: yeah.

00:12:24.186 --> 00:12:24.996
you can, do

00:12:25.056 --> 00:12:26.016
everything and

00:12:26.016 --> 00:12:27.456
anything in different ways.

00:12:27.456 --> 00:12:27.876
However you

00:12:27.876 --> 00:12:29.976
want, you know, it's
designed for you to, to,

00:12:30.186 --> 00:12:31.176
to do it.

00:12:31.206 --> 00:12:32.316
However you, However

00:12:32.316 --> 00:12:33.486
works best for you

00:12:33.529 --> 00:12:35.299
Alan: think what they do well is.

00:12:36.104 --> 00:12:39.074
They address very specific
use cases within that though.

00:12:39.104 --> 00:12:42.674
So, I mean, they have like a ton of
different landing pages depending

00:12:42.674 --> 00:12:43.724
on where you're coming from.

00:12:43.994 --> 00:12:47.818
So, you know, if you're, if they do a
promoted tweet for you know, project

00:12:47.818 --> 00:12:51.958
managers, you end up at a landing page
that talks to project managers and says,

00:12:51.958 --> 00:12:54.208
this is, this is how, what notion does.

00:12:54.208 --> 00:12:55.528
And these are the things
you can do with it.

00:12:55.918 --> 00:12:58.299
And I think I've done,
it used to another few.

00:12:58.299 --> 00:13:01.269
I've been trying around lots of different
products like this and almost this like

00:13:01.269 --> 00:13:02.199
template idea of

00:13:02.229 --> 00:13:02.739
you're coming

00:13:02.739 --> 00:13:03.399
in you,

00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:05.019
know, what's your primary role?

00:13:06.084 --> 00:13:11.424
Tweaks the onboarding to make it work
for you So It suggests use cases.

00:13:11.424 --> 00:13:12.564
It suggests templates.

00:13:12.984 --> 00:13:18.174
It almost is like a private, you,
know, onboarding service for your job.

00:13:18.444 --> 00:13:22.314
So they have tons of use case
examples of, you know, if you're

00:13:22.314 --> 00:13:27.174
a, a product designer, this is the
templates you might work for you.

00:13:27.174 --> 00:13:30.024
If this, if you're a developer,
then these are the ways you

00:13:30.024 --> 00:13:30.504
can use this.

00:13:30.504 --> 00:13:33.534
Both in the, the images
they use, the language

00:13:33.534 --> 00:13:34.764
they use it it's,

00:13:35.034 --> 00:13:36.864
it's quite intimidating
when you think about, oh

00:13:36.864 --> 00:13:37.244
my God,

00:13:37.311 --> 00:13:37.831
Mario: well, yeah.

00:13:37.831 --> 00:13:37.971
And,

00:13:38.124 --> 00:13:38.364
Alan: this?

00:13:38.511 --> 00:13:39.141
Mario: and they have the

00:13:39.141 --> 00:13:40.851
resources to do, to do that.

00:13:40.884 --> 00:13:41.634
Alan: the resources to do

00:13:41.661 --> 00:13:46.221
Mario: And as an indie maker, it's
not possible to compete at that level.

00:13:46.221 --> 00:13:47.331
So you have to

00:13:47.961 --> 00:13:50.091
figure out another way that you can do it,

00:13:50.571 --> 00:13:51.471
you know, at a.

00:13:52.426 --> 00:13:55.926
At a scale that works for you
or that works for us, you know?

00:13:55.926 --> 00:13:57.246
Cause I may

00:13:57.246 --> 00:13:58.926
come across the same problem too.

00:13:58.990 --> 00:14:00.472
Alan: Well, I mean, it's almost like,

00:14:00.562 --> 00:14:00.802
you know?

00:14:00.822 --> 00:14:01.612
fusion cust as

00:14:01.612 --> 00:14:02.152
well to the

00:14:02.152 --> 00:14:04.582
point where it works great as a,

00:14:04.702 --> 00:14:05.992
you know, two person

00:14:05.992 --> 00:14:07.462
three person podcast.

00:14:07.517 --> 00:14:08.507
If you then

00:14:08.537 --> 00:14:11.886
think of people like in a business
context while I want to do a

00:14:11.886 --> 00:14:12.396
weekly

00:14:12.396 --> 00:14:13.243
business you

00:14:13.243 --> 00:14:13.363
know,

00:14:13.363 --> 00:14:14.053
like a.

00:14:14.083 --> 00:14:17.083
manager podcast is just me using it.

00:14:17.263 --> 00:14:17.713
Well, I don't

00:14:17.713 --> 00:14:17.863
have

00:14:17.863 --> 00:14:20.263
guests that none of your,

00:14:20.321 --> 00:14:21.311
All of your UI

00:14:21.341 --> 00:14:22.061
is designed

00:14:22.061 --> 00:14:22.421
for

00:14:22.421 --> 00:14:24.701
a having more than one
people share, fueling a

00:14:24.701 --> 00:14:25.181
meeting,

00:14:25.211 --> 00:14:27.323
doing a a recording and then

00:14:27.323 --> 00:14:27.893
posting it,

00:14:27.893 --> 00:14:28.691
to something else.

00:14:28.691 --> 00:14:30.071
It's, it's very designed around

00:14:30.071 --> 00:14:32.531
this aspect of like a guest having guests

00:14:32.531 --> 00:14:33.431
on your podcast rate.

00:14:33.441 --> 00:14:35.610
So you for you've already kind of,

00:14:35.636 --> 00:14:39.326
Decided that's your, it's not a
niche, but that's your focus, right?

00:14:39.326 --> 00:14:40.766
That's your, your audience.

00:14:41.006 --> 00:14:45.506
And I guess that the, I
guess this is part of the.

00:14:46.831 --> 00:14:51.811
Again, the recommended practices
of doings, a, an indie product rate

00:14:51.841 --> 00:14:55.891
is picking a very targeted audience
and talking directly to them.

00:14:56.191 --> 00:14:56.851
And

00:14:58.351 --> 00:15:02.131
it's, you know, it's this thing that
will, who's your audience home, everybody.

00:15:03.631 --> 00:15:06.331
And that's just impossible to cope with.

00:15:06.331 --> 00:15:06.571
Right.

00:15:06.571 --> 00:15:07.651
So I think

00:15:08.431 --> 00:15:08.881
it's,

00:15:10.231 --> 00:15:13.711
I guess I have to just be
more targeted with that right.

00:15:13.731 --> 00:15:18.031
Be much more conscious of who I'm speaking
to, at least at this stage, it's like,

00:15:18.031 --> 00:15:22.171
look at my list of people that are, that
are already on my waiting list that are

00:15:22.171 --> 00:15:26.461
already Beta using the app and find that
common trait between them or at least

00:15:26.501 --> 00:15:32.041
the majority bucket that I can put them
in and then start to talk towards that.

00:15:32.041 --> 00:15:32.251
Right.

00:15:32.581 --> 00:15:34.861
I mean, I've already made the
conscious decision of, you know,

00:15:34.861 --> 00:15:36.721
looking at smaller companies.

00:15:36.721 --> 00:15:41.941
So avoiding the, you know, the big mega
co-ops and even though, right, exactly.

00:15:41.941 --> 00:15:43.051
Even though, as I said,

00:15:43.085 --> 00:15:47.735
Like the bank advisor, the, a lot of
the people I've spoken to in Japan are

00:15:47.735 --> 00:15:49.565
like, don't talk to small businesses.

00:15:49.565 --> 00:15:54.215
They've got no time for this talk to
a bigger corporations who will have

00:15:54.215 --> 00:15:56.075
got time and money to try things out.

00:15:56.375 --> 00:15:57.245
But I'm,

00:15:58.175 --> 00:15:59.405
I can't do that.

00:16:00.198 --> 00:16:00.588
Mario: Yeah.

00:16:00.785 --> 00:16:01.385
Alan: not at this stage.

00:16:01.415 --> 00:16:04.835
I don't have the resources to be
able to cope with talking to Toyota.

00:16:04.835 --> 00:16:05.075
Right.

00:16:05.278 --> 00:16:05.698
Mario: Yeah,

00:16:07.095 --> 00:16:09.545
Alan: That's going to take a
little bit of my time to do that.

00:16:09.545 --> 00:16:09.785
Right.

00:16:09.874 --> 00:16:12.037
So I think, you know, looking
at the small you know,

00:16:12.757 --> 00:16:19.357
10 to 15 person companies makes much
more sense at this stage for me.

00:16:19.447 --> 00:16:23.497
So I guess optimizing
my, copy that the way,

00:16:23.568 --> 00:16:27.858
Yeah, just the entire experience
optimizing for that is something I need

00:16:27.858 --> 00:16:29.118
to do a little bit more of, I guess,

00:16:29.298 --> 00:16:29.898
a lot more of,

00:16:29.920 --> 00:16:30.340
Mario: yeah,

00:16:30.430 --> 00:16:32.230
yeah, yeah.

00:16:33.198 --> 00:16:37.248
Alan: but I mean, you, you mentioned
Japanese companies versus others.

00:16:38.283 --> 00:16:40.473
I mean, this is a problem, not a problem.

00:16:40.503 --> 00:16:42.163
It's a difference between

00:16:42.673 --> 00:16:43.303
just

00:16:43.603 --> 00:16:45.313
generally software and how it's

00:16:45.313 --> 00:16:50.682
used here, or at least not how it's used,
but how people use it and how they see

00:16:50.682 --> 00:16:52.722
it as fitting into their, their job.

00:16:52.821 --> 00:16:54.381
And it's very much this idea

00:16:54.381 --> 00:16:54.591
of

00:16:54.981 --> 00:16:58.551
it's it's this is, these are the
tasks, these are the instructions

00:16:58.551 --> 00:17:00.231
for doing this, do that.

00:17:00.411 --> 00:17:00.876
And that's it.

00:17:00.878 --> 00:17:06.158
And also, I mean, Japan has
a, a much stronger history of

00:17:06.638 --> 00:17:08.328
being mobile first as well.

00:17:08.328 --> 00:17:11.103
So especially with
desktop software, I mean,

00:17:11.133 --> 00:17:16.033
I, I, grew up with a computer since
the age of like seven or eight.

00:17:16.062 --> 00:17:16.318
Okay.

00:17:16.318 --> 00:17:18.374
There were eight bit things
that didn't do anything.

00:17:18.417 --> 00:17:20.997
But we've always had computers
in my house, everybody.

00:17:20.997 --> 00:17:22.217
I know all of my friends.

00:17:23.037 --> 00:17:25.017
Computers in their house.

00:17:25.029 --> 00:17:27.900
And that's not a common thing
that, that, isn't a historically

00:17:27.900 --> 00:17:29.080
strong thing in Japan.

00:17:29.080 --> 00:17:33.022
People didn't have a home computer out.

00:17:33.982 --> 00:17:36.022
Of course, that's very generalizing.

00:17:36.562 --> 00:17:40.942
There's obviously a home computer market,
but it wasn't as widely commoditized

00:17:41.182 --> 00:17:43.552
in the way it was in least in the UK.

00:17:43.619 --> 00:17:44.743
and I think in the U S as well.

00:17:45.043 --> 00:17:50.323
So the seems to be a little bit more
hesitancy about trying things in

00:17:50.323 --> 00:17:55.843
software, as in, you know, you had a,
you open up a new application, you,

00:17:55.903 --> 00:17:57.253
you just click on everything, right?

00:17:57.253 --> 00:18:00.583
So it was this do, what does this do is
that there's no fear about breaking it.

00:18:00.583 --> 00:18:04.153
There's more curiosity
about where's its limits.

00:18:04.153 --> 00:18:05.263
What can I do with this?

00:18:05.263 --> 00:18:07.873
What, what, how can I
use this for what I want.

00:18:09.088 --> 00:18:14.008
Whereas here, it feels like, again,
I'm speaking very generally and

00:18:14.008 --> 00:18:18.198
only from the BT users that I've
been talking with having used it and

00:18:18.208 --> 00:18:22.918
watching them and talking to them is
like, what, what, what do I press?

00:18:23.158 --> 00:18:25.588
And it's like, well, what, what
do you think you should practice?

00:18:25.948 --> 00:18:29.098
And I like, tell me where to
press, you know, how do I use this?

00:18:29.098 --> 00:18:30.518
Which button do I click on it?

00:18:30.518 --> 00:18:33.911
It's it feels a lot more
like to tell me how to use

00:18:33.911 --> 00:18:36.401
this tool as opposed to
give me a hammer and I'll

00:18:36.731 --> 00:18:37.061
make it

00:18:37.373 --> 00:18:37.823
Mario: Yeah.

00:18:37.841 --> 00:18:39.791
Alan: So that needs to be part of my

00:18:39.791 --> 00:18:40.931
onboarding experience

00:18:41.128 --> 00:18:41.638
Mario: Yeah.

00:18:41.818 --> 00:18:43.418
And I think we've talked about,

00:18:43.418 --> 00:18:44.750
In the past, I think we talked

00:18:44.750 --> 00:18:46.257
about the use of video

00:18:46.647 --> 00:18:51.247
that you, I think you wanted to
implement more video and integrate it

00:18:51.247 --> 00:18:52.437
into the app itself.

00:18:52.437 --> 00:18:54.587
So it, it, it serves as,

00:18:54.637 --> 00:18:55.447
On the spot

00:18:55.567 --> 00:18:57.202
kind of help for

00:18:57.384 --> 00:18:57.684
Alan: Right.

00:18:57.744 --> 00:18:59.394
You know, what's really funny about this.

00:18:59.514 --> 00:19:02.918
It's like, so, you know,
on my New check-in page.

00:19:02.948 --> 00:19:05.138
I think it's called your
plans at the moment, which I'm

00:19:05.138 --> 00:19:06.248
in the process of changing.

00:19:06.248 --> 00:19:07.218
I'll mentioned that as well.

00:19:07.289 --> 00:19:12.089
Th there's a normal, not a quarter of the
screen, but it's a big chunk of the bottom

00:19:12.089 --> 00:19:16.889
right-hand corner of, the screen is like
a video box saying basically play here for

00:19:16.889 --> 00:19:17.309
an intro.

00:19:17.309 --> 00:19:17.595
Right.

00:19:17.653 --> 00:19:20.803
I spoken to two people
who now who didn't see

00:19:20.803 --> 00:19:20.912
it,

00:19:20.912 --> 00:19:21.498
It's on their

00:19:21.498 --> 00:19:24.678
screen, but I think we've got so blind

00:19:24.708 --> 00:19:28.008
to pop-ups and sidebars

00:19:28.008 --> 00:19:28.968
and boxes

00:19:28.968 --> 00:19:30.318
and inline things.

00:19:30.918 --> 00:19:33.618
It's like, they almost, they
literally blank that out.

00:19:33.678 --> 00:19:37.872
I'm like th there was two people and
they were using the same company in that,

00:19:37.902 --> 00:19:42.432
like, and they're like, he's like, well,
I didn't know what to do here and there.

00:19:42.432 --> 00:19:44.622
The lady's like, there's
a big video on the screen.

00:19:44.622 --> 00:19:45.252
Did you watch that?

00:19:45.252 --> 00:19:46.122
And it's like, what video?

00:19:47.472 --> 00:19:49.092
It's the big box with a play button on it.

00:19:49.092 --> 00:19:50.862
And he's like, I never noticed that.

00:19:51.132 --> 00:19:52.122
And I'm like, whoa, hold on.

00:19:54.244 --> 00:19:57.634
Mario: It's like video of the gorilla
in the middle of the room and no one's

00:19:57.642 --> 00:19:58.782
Alan: Right, right, exactly.

00:19:59.562 --> 00:20:00.252
Completely.

00:20:00.642 --> 00:20:01.572
I was like, hold on

00:20:01.572 --> 00:20:01.812
what

00:20:03.364 --> 00:20:04.504
Mario: wow, interesting.

00:20:05.022 --> 00:20:05.712
Alan: I think this

00:20:05.712 --> 00:20:10.905
idea of like, doing like a
modal based welcome is I need to

00:20:10.987 --> 00:20:11.347
Mario: Yeah.

00:20:11.497 --> 00:20:13.627
Blast it on, on their faces.

00:20:13.725 --> 00:20:14.265
Alan: full screen.

00:20:14.265 --> 00:20:15.225
Like watch this, I'll

00:20:15.225 --> 00:20:15.885
skip it right.

00:20:16.185 --> 00:20:18.885
As opposed to like I, you know, I
was like, well, if I just put it

00:20:18.885 --> 00:20:20.115
there on the screen, they can hide

00:20:20.115 --> 00:20:22.935
it and it's done, but if they want to play
it and they're like, I didn't notice that.

00:20:23.082 --> 00:20:23.592
Mario: Yeah.

00:20:23.682 --> 00:20:28.152
it's going to have to be a modal that
auto opens and auto plays the video.

00:20:28.752 --> 00:20:30.162
So you don't have to click on anything.

00:20:30.331 --> 00:20:30.961
Alan: Exactly.

00:20:31.046 --> 00:20:33.266
Mario: yeah, those are
all interesting challenges

00:20:33.296 --> 00:20:34.376
that we have to figure out.

00:20:35.098 --> 00:20:35.398
Alan: Yes.

00:20:35.728 --> 00:20:40.698
And th this as a side to that as
well I'm just realizing the, the,

00:20:40.698 --> 00:20:41.748
language of some

00:20:41.748 --> 00:20:43.068
of my,

00:20:43.190 --> 00:20:46.490
Things like plans and check-ins
again, I know what they mean.

00:20:47.310 --> 00:20:48.680
That doesn't mean my users

00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:48.910
do.

00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:49.220
Right.

00:20:49.670 --> 00:20:51.680
So I'm trying to

00:20:51.730 --> 00:20:54.120
consistentcefi

00:20:54.848 --> 00:20:55.808
My language

00:20:56.708 --> 00:20:59.318
make more consistent the language
throughout my application.

00:20:59.318 --> 00:21:03.698
So I'm trying to, I I'm
re almost removing this.

00:21:03.758 --> 00:21:04.628
I use plans

00:21:04.628 --> 00:21:05.738
a lot and that

00:21:05.738 --> 00:21:07.544
throws people just because everyone is

00:21:07.544 --> 00:21:08.744
like, what's a plan.

00:21:09.194 --> 00:21:09.464
And I

00:21:09.464 --> 00:21:10.844
say, well, it's the plan?

00:21:10.964 --> 00:21:11.444
Checking has

00:21:11.444 --> 00:21:12.014
lots of plans.

00:21:12.014 --> 00:21:13.074
And they're like, I thought I'd plan.

00:21:13.244 --> 00:21:14.264
I thought a check-in was a plan

00:21:14.264 --> 00:21:14.714
then I'm like,

00:21:14.772 --> 00:21:15.582
Mario: Oh

00:21:16.364 --> 00:21:19.504
Alan: So it's yeah,
I'm, I'm rewording that.

00:21:19.504 --> 00:21:20.044
And I'm also

00:21:20.044 --> 00:21:22.094
changing the New check-in

00:21:22.124 --> 00:21:22.544
page.

00:21:22.604 --> 00:21:23.204
I'm not gonna use it.

00:21:23.444 --> 00:21:24.914
So it's not my plans anymore.

00:21:24.914 --> 00:21:26.924
It's then create new check-in page

00:21:28.274 --> 00:21:28.934
two.

00:21:28.994 --> 00:21:33.044
Right now it opens multiple
form fields because the

00:21:33.044 --> 00:21:38.804
expectation is it's like, well, you
went to your plans in there, and that is

00:21:38.804 --> 00:21:44.467
throwing people because a I used the word
save as well next to each form field.

00:21:45.007 --> 00:21:47.707
And the idea is, again, it

00:21:47.737 --> 00:21:50.917
different people have different
experiences, but a save button

00:21:50.947 --> 00:21:52.027
saves a page.

00:21:52.327 --> 00:21:53.197
Doesn't save a

00:21:53.197 --> 00:21:54.287
thing on a page.

00:21:54.287 --> 00:21:54.527
Right.

00:21:54.557 --> 00:22:00.137
So I'm changing that to add and they
won't auto open you click on add new

00:22:00.198 --> 00:22:03.812
planned I forgot the trying different
textbooks and new plan click on that.

00:22:03.812 --> 00:22:09.122
And it opens a form field to add it
hit return so rather than popping up

00:22:09.122 --> 00:22:15.392
too many form fields, because again,
people think of a web form as being.

00:22:16.142 --> 00:22:20.552
Still a thing that gets submitted as a
page rather than being an in-line thing.

00:22:21.032 --> 00:22:22.307
And I think that's also

00:22:22.357 --> 00:22:28.627
maybe a downside of using more traditional
form looking elements rather than

00:22:28.627 --> 00:22:36.367
a more custom if you use a, an spa
SAS product, it, they don't tend to

00:22:36.367 --> 00:22:39.667
style things in a traditional web way.

00:22:39.757 --> 00:22:45.157
As in it doesn't have a, the, with slight
border shadow, a, you know, an inline

00:22:45.157 --> 00:22:50.947
form field it'll have a, something that
looks more application as a form field.

00:22:50.947 --> 00:22:54.037
And people disassociate
that from being a web.

00:22:54.070 --> 00:22:56.730
Again, it depends on the user's
experience, but someone who's coming

00:22:56.730 --> 00:23:03.000
from, you know, knowing what a web
application is and its limits, they

00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:06.060
assume that it's like, well, if I click
save, that's going to save the page.

00:23:06.060 --> 00:23:08.190
And it's like, no, it's
just adding that item.

00:23:08.190 --> 00:23:08.460
Right.

00:23:08.550 --> 00:23:10.020
And it's like, oh, well
it looks like a form.

00:23:10.650 --> 00:23:11.250
It is, but

00:23:11.442 --> 00:23:12.552
Mario: yeah, yeah,

00:23:14.310 --> 00:23:16.620
Alan: this is me losing,
learning UX in real time.

00:23:17.212 --> 00:23:17.522
Mario: yeah,

00:23:17.552 --> 00:23:18.422
I can see that.

00:23:18.482 --> 00:23:19.112
I can see that.

00:23:19.112 --> 00:23:24.842
And it makes me think about my UI for
adding guests to a schedule session

00:23:25.322 --> 00:23:31.262
where there's just an add button that,
adds a new row to add a new guest.

00:23:31.982 --> 00:23:34.982
And there's just a one save button that

00:23:34.982 --> 00:23:36.002
saves the whole thing.

00:23:36.040 --> 00:23:40.390
Alan: And it's like, does that, by
adding that, does that save it or does,

00:23:40.450 --> 00:23:42.430
do I need to click save after adding.

00:23:42.932 --> 00:23:44.192
Mario: Yeah, yeah,

00:23:44.265 --> 00:23:45.285
Alan: And this is where,

00:23:45.285 --> 00:23:46.965
yeah, the copy I need to is on the page.

00:23:46.965 --> 00:23:49.815
It's much more clearer about our it's
much more obvious what's happening.

00:23:49.875 --> 00:23:51.315
Not like it doesn't leave any

00:23:51.315 --> 00:23:54.715
ambiguity because again,
there's the, the main, it's been

00:23:54.715 --> 00:23:55.735
interesting that it just

00:23:55.795 --> 00:23:57.730
I've had some very good direct,

00:23:57.763 --> 00:24:00.853
Feedback about, like, I don't
understand this, this isn't

00:24:00.853 --> 00:24:01.903
clear to me, what does that.

00:24:01.903 --> 00:24:03.893
button do and say, okay,
this is what I need.

00:24:03.893 --> 00:24:05.413
This is the, and these aren't

00:24:05.413 --> 00:24:05.593
like,

00:24:05.623 --> 00:24:06.163
educators.

00:24:06.163 --> 00:24:09.523
These are like, you know, core users
who I expect to be selling to, you

00:24:09.523 --> 00:24:12.119
know, it's so this is, is really,

00:24:12.131 --> 00:24:15.325
Helping just make that experience much

00:24:15.325 --> 00:24:15.595
better.

00:24:15.625 --> 00:24:16.503
So it's, it's

00:24:16.503 --> 00:24:20.013
been super, but yeah, you can
see me learning how to do a

00:24:20.023 --> 00:24:20.463
user

00:24:20.463 --> 00:24:22.023
interface design in real time.

00:24:22.075 --> 00:24:25.966
Mario: It's it's, it's
unbelievable how, how,

00:24:25.966 --> 00:24:26.926
difficult It is

00:24:26.956 --> 00:24:27.406
to

00:24:27.436 --> 00:24:30.076
address all these different aspects

00:24:30.076 --> 00:24:31.130
and, and make it

00:24:31.130 --> 00:24:35.090
clear for everyone because
everyone has a different background

00:24:35.090 --> 00:24:36.380
and a different perspective

00:24:36.410 --> 00:24:38.150
and they see things differently and

00:24:38.150 --> 00:24:39.560
it's, it's, it's, really

00:24:39.560 --> 00:24:40.010
hard.

00:24:40.010 --> 00:24:41.020
It's, it's, that's why it's

00:24:41.330 --> 00:24:43.640
feel of its own, you know,
user experience, user

00:24:43.933 --> 00:24:45.433
Alan: and that's why
there's usually a team

00:24:45.620 --> 00:24:46.130
Mario: Yeah.

00:24:46.243 --> 00:24:46.393
Alan: right?

00:24:47.270 --> 00:24:50.030
Mario: And we're just
one person doing it all.

00:24:50.593 --> 00:24:50.893
Alan: Yes.

00:24:51.470 --> 00:24:53.240
Mario: So it is challenging, but

00:24:53.683 --> 00:24:56.433
Alan: But I mean, it's
super, I mean, the, the

00:24:56.593 --> 00:25:00.973
massive benefit of this
as, you know, just the it's

00:25:01.153 --> 00:25:02.323
how I learn best, right.

00:25:02.323 --> 00:25:04.783
Is by doing it and finding and failing.

00:25:04.813 --> 00:25:04.993
Right.

00:25:06.733 --> 00:25:07.573
it's I won't make that

00:25:07.573 --> 00:25:07.903
mistake

00:25:07.903 --> 00:25:08.143
again.

00:25:08.143 --> 00:25:09.493
You know, it's just every bit of

00:25:09.493 --> 00:25:10.113
learning.

00:25:10.163 --> 00:25:10.813
Just make sure

00:25:10.813 --> 00:25:12.703
next time you do it better.

00:25:12.763 --> 00:25:13.693
And it's funny now

00:25:13.693 --> 00:25:13.933
it's

00:25:13.972 --> 00:25:15.262
I think I tweeted this the other day.

00:25:15.502 --> 00:25:17.122
I been working on

00:25:17.152 --> 00:25:20.542
this redesigned rework
of the new check-in.

00:25:21.712 --> 00:25:23.613
and because that's what I'm using in

00:25:23.613 --> 00:25:24.063
development

00:25:24.063 --> 00:25:24.303
here.

00:25:24.573 --> 00:25:26.583
And so I'm used to seeing that now it's

00:25:26.583 --> 00:25:27.603
constantly being tweaked.

00:25:27.603 --> 00:25:28.563
It's just looking better

00:25:28.803 --> 00:25:29.373
day by day.

00:25:29.763 --> 00:25:33.123
And then I opened production with
the client and I'm like, oh my God.

00:25:34.653 --> 00:25:38.923
It's like, it looks so like old now,
I guess that because I'm used to

00:25:38.923 --> 00:25:42.303
it looking so much better seeing what

00:25:43.473 --> 00:25:46.889
the production users are
using is, oh, that's you okay.

00:25:46.979 --> 00:25:48.179
I need to get this done.

00:25:50.969 --> 00:25:53.429
But at the same time, like two
weeks ago, three weeks ago, that

00:25:53.429 --> 00:25:54.089
looked fine to me.

00:25:54.089 --> 00:25:54.329
Right?

00:25:54.757 --> 00:25:55.717
Mario: yeah, yeah.

00:25:55.889 --> 00:25:56.069
Alan: It's

00:25:56.069 --> 00:25:58.662
just this, you know, like it is a massive

00:25:58.662 --> 00:25:59.052
learning,

00:25:59.380 --> 00:26:00.880
Mario: that's it, that's the way it is.

00:26:00.910 --> 00:26:01.660
That's the way it is.

00:26:01.660 --> 00:26:03.970
You, you have something

00:26:03.970 --> 00:26:04.240
and

00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:05.483
you know, you come back

00:26:05.483 --> 00:26:06.563
later and look at it and it's

00:26:06.563 --> 00:26:10.870
like, ah, yeah, it's not,
it's not the most ideal maybe.

00:26:10.870 --> 00:26:12.957
And and then you've gotten feedback And,

00:26:13.094 --> 00:26:13.814
you, you

00:26:14.060 --> 00:26:14.570
see things

00:26:14.570 --> 00:26:15.200
differently.

00:26:15.479 --> 00:26:16.699
Alan: Speaking of that yeah.

00:26:16.819 --> 00:26:18.769
Saw your new landing page for Fusioncast

00:26:18.792 --> 00:26:19.542
Mario: oh, thank you.

00:26:19.572 --> 00:26:20.382
Yeah, you saw it.

00:26:20.789 --> 00:26:21.419
Alan: That's very nice.

00:26:21.419 --> 00:26:22.529
Yeah, No, it looks nice.

00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:22.739
It's

00:26:22.739 --> 00:26:22.979
cool.

00:26:24.452 --> 00:26:25.022
Mario: Yeah.

00:26:25.048 --> 00:26:25.545
Thank you.

00:26:25.586 --> 00:26:27.656
I don't know how I feel about It yet.

00:26:27.716 --> 00:26:29.642
I didn't want to go the route

00:26:29.642 --> 00:26:31.685
of training something that's you know

00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:34.354
that, that looks just like
everything else out there.

00:26:34.354 --> 00:26:35.284
I wanted to do something

00:26:35.284 --> 00:26:38.374
unique and different and,
and that's why I had created

00:26:38.374 --> 00:26:38.954
something.

00:26:38.997 --> 00:26:39.327
Totally

00:26:39.327 --> 00:26:40.467
different before with

00:26:40.487 --> 00:26:45.837
a landing page that was designed
based inspired by the 1950s, you know,

00:26:45.897 --> 00:26:48.567
radio, radio era.

00:26:48.754 --> 00:26:49.474
Alan: just looks awesome.

00:26:49.474 --> 00:26:49.954
It really does

00:26:50.907 --> 00:26:51.387
Mario: Thank you.

00:26:51.874 --> 00:26:53.687
Alan: but I understand your yeah.

00:26:53.747 --> 00:26:56.297
Needs to do something a little
bit more, more traditional.

00:26:56.550 --> 00:26:57.270
Mario: yeah.

00:26:57.300 --> 00:26:57.570
Yeah.

00:26:57.600 --> 00:27:00.090
It was hard to carry, carry that design.

00:27:00.330 --> 00:27:05.040
Yeah, It was hard to carry that design
through all the way, you know, it was

00:27:05.040 --> 00:27:09.937
great for just that one page, but to do
it all like that, and maybe it is maybe

00:27:09.937 --> 00:27:14.467
I can pull it off later on or, you know,
hire a designer to help me out to create

00:27:14.467 --> 00:27:16.987
that brand and create that look and feel.

00:27:17.407 --> 00:27:18.185
But I think.

00:27:19.410 --> 00:27:20.370
You know, being honest

00:27:20.370 --> 00:27:22.080
with myself, I think I hit a

00:27:22.110 --> 00:27:26.733
limit there, you know, with my
creativity you know, my design skills are

00:27:26.733 --> 00:27:27.093
not

00:27:27.183 --> 00:27:28.683
that, that

00:27:28.725 --> 00:27:29.325
Advanced.

00:27:29.355 --> 00:27:29.881
so

00:27:29.881 --> 00:27:30.350
So I,

00:27:30.350 --> 00:27:31.910
you know, I, I'm like,

00:27:31.910 --> 00:27:34.580
I'm just gonna stop there.

00:27:34.580 --> 00:27:38.660
And I, I can't, you know,
one, I can't spend the time,

00:27:38.718 --> 00:27:39.571
You know, doing that.

00:27:40.201 --> 00:27:43.471
It takes me a lot longer
because it's not my, my core

00:27:43.471 --> 00:27:44.071
strength.

00:27:44.461 --> 00:27:50.101
And so I decided to kill that design
and go with something a little

00:27:50.101 --> 00:27:54.668
more traditional keep it really
simple and not spend too much time,

00:27:54.788 --> 00:27:55.298
you, know,

00:27:55.752 --> 00:27:58.872
Alan: it's you, you can focus
on the actual content, much

00:27:58.872 --> 00:27:59.982
easier with this right now.

00:28:00.055 --> 00:28:04.885
I noticed the, even though the,
the other one looked wicked, you

00:28:04.885 --> 00:28:08.485
almost skim the text because it is

00:28:08.586 --> 00:28:11.126
it's designed heavy as
opposed to content heavy.

00:28:11.126 --> 00:28:11.336
Right.

00:28:11.336 --> 00:28:11.996
Whereas this is

00:28:11.996 --> 00:28:12.926
just content.

00:28:13.196 --> 00:28:15.146
I mean, it, I say simply

00:28:15.146 --> 00:28:18.686
styled, but it it, it looks good,
but it's all about the content,

00:28:18.686 --> 00:28:19.826
everything that the content

00:28:19.826 --> 00:28:20.789
is you know what it

00:28:20.789 --> 00:28:22.619
says, the features it does are

00:28:22.619 --> 00:28:23.429
front and center.

00:28:23.459 --> 00:28:24.209
There's no, no

00:28:24.209 --> 00:28:24.929
distractions.

00:28:24.929 --> 00:28:25.169
Right.

00:28:25.169 --> 00:28:28.469
so I think in that way, that can probably

00:28:28.469 --> 00:28:33.509
help you, you know, get that, that
correct, because you'll focus on

00:28:33.509 --> 00:28:34.889
that rather than making it look.

00:28:35.402 --> 00:28:35.822
Mario: Yeah.

00:28:35.852 --> 00:28:36.122
Yeah.

00:28:36.122 --> 00:28:36.902
And I already got

00:28:36.902 --> 00:28:37.922
some feedback from some

00:28:37.922 --> 00:28:40.166
folks and it's good feedback.

00:28:40.166 --> 00:28:41.936
So I'm going to go back and, you know

00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:43.239
revisit certain things.

00:28:43.449 --> 00:28:46.509
Plus there's a ton of stuff that is
not there that I'm planning to do.

00:28:46.509 --> 00:28:47.409
I just want it to get

00:28:47.409 --> 00:28:49.453
something simple out there and,

00:28:49.513 --> 00:28:53.593
and just, you know, have decent,
good to go so that I can get back

00:28:53.593 --> 00:28:55.123
to focusing on the product.

00:28:55.423 --> 00:28:56.925
Cause I as of now, I

00:28:56.925 --> 00:28:58.125
haven't been

00:28:58.215 --> 00:29:00.765
working on the product
itself for about three

00:29:00.765 --> 00:29:01.395
weeks now.

00:29:01.436 --> 00:29:04.028
And so I I really need to get back to that

00:29:04.028 --> 00:29:04.508
because I've been

00:29:04.508 --> 00:29:09.214
focusing on, on the website and I just
wanted to create a strong foundation.

00:29:09.214 --> 00:29:13.294
So it's built on  Statamic
3 and Tailwind CSS.

00:29:13.364 --> 00:29:16.564
And so I wanted to have
the blog, component.

00:29:16.614 --> 00:29:17.484
I wanted to have

00:29:17.534 --> 00:29:20.883
Way to edit and, and
you know, make changes

00:29:20.883 --> 00:29:22.323
easily for myself.

00:29:22.803 --> 00:29:23.253
And.

00:29:23.276 --> 00:29:24.986
Alan: the worst thing is,
you know, so I'm using,

00:29:25.009 --> 00:29:27.065
It wasn't intended to
be a long-term thing,

00:29:27.065 --> 00:29:27.315
but I'm

00:29:27.315 --> 00:29:30.424
using Umso, which was, we used
to be called London which is

00:29:30.424 --> 00:29:34.079
a, basically a launch page tool.

00:29:34.589 --> 00:29:37.859
It's basically a website
editor plus it's got like email

00:29:37.859 --> 00:29:39.929
lists and blogs and things like that.

00:29:40.139 --> 00:29:43.199
And it's, I think it's like $30 a
month and you get like three sites

00:29:43.199 --> 00:29:43.349
for

00:29:43.349 --> 00:29:43.469
it.

00:29:43.469 --> 00:29:45.059
So as a pre,

00:29:45.077 --> 00:29:47.115
Creation thing, it was like, okay,

00:29:47.115 --> 00:29:47.295
you know,

00:29:48.095 --> 00:29:49.325
No waiting list type thing.

00:29:49.775 --> 00:29:51.815
They can integrate with
MailChimp And all the rest.

00:29:51.876 --> 00:29:53.183
So I use that as a,

00:29:53.633 --> 00:29:54.863
like a placeholder and

00:29:54.863 --> 00:29:55.133
it, but

00:29:55.133 --> 00:29:57.650
it's become more than that because,

00:29:57.697 --> 00:29:59.541
So my wife's been working
on the Japanese side,

00:29:59.571 --> 00:30:03.381
so she's been adding like guides for
these beauty users, how to use things.

00:30:03.452 --> 00:30:07.966
Because we, we feel that we need that
like a bit more tutorial level led things.

00:30:08.476 --> 00:30:11.746
And so just being able to
say, okay, go on, work on the

00:30:11.746 --> 00:30:13.366
site and, and it looks good.

00:30:14.196 --> 00:30:15.136
It makes a huge difference.

00:30:15.136 --> 00:30:17.056
Not having to mess with
your tools all the time.

00:30:17.086 --> 00:30:17.446
Right.

00:30:17.716 --> 00:30:18.916
So I can appreciate that.

00:30:18.916 --> 00:30:19.866
At least you've, now you've got

00:30:20.186 --> 00:30:21.286
a thing that

00:30:21.286 --> 00:30:23.146
works and you can edit
and you're not, don't

00:30:23.146 --> 00:30:24.766
have to fiddle with it.

00:30:24.766 --> 00:30:24.916
Right.

00:30:25.004 --> 00:30:25.424
Mario: yeah.

00:30:25.454 --> 00:30:26.474
Yeah, And it started me.

00:30:26.474 --> 00:30:27.434
Statamic 3 is awesome.

00:30:27.434 --> 00:30:27.914
I really

00:30:28.126 --> 00:30:28.306
Alan: Is it.

00:30:28.306 --> 00:30:28.516
good?

00:30:28.724 --> 00:30:28.964
Mario: Yeah.

00:30:28.964 --> 00:30:29.934
I love Statamic.

00:30:30.057 --> 00:30:35.247
It's, it's built for developers really,
you know, so it's super flexible.

00:30:35.247 --> 00:30:37.467
You can do a lot of things with it.

00:30:37.467 --> 00:30:38.487
and you can customize

00:30:38.487 --> 00:30:38.577
it.

00:30:39.307 --> 00:30:41.167
Behave and work the way you

00:30:41.347 --> 00:30:42.787
you know, wanted it the way it

00:30:42.787 --> 00:30:43.867
works best for you.

00:30:44.317 --> 00:30:45.667
So I wanted that

00:30:45.667 --> 00:30:46.507
foundation.

00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:46.693
And

00:30:46.693 --> 00:30:49.243
so I kept the design super simple.

00:30:49.243 --> 00:30:49.963
I still need to

00:30:49.993 --> 00:30:51.373
drop a video on top

00:30:51.373 --> 00:30:52.663
of the homepage.

00:30:52.693 --> 00:30:53.953
You know, I'm going to record

00:30:53.953 --> 00:30:54.793
a quick

00:30:54.853 --> 00:30:55.363
demo.

00:30:55.418 --> 00:30:58.108
Just haven't had time to record it the

00:30:58.108 --> 00:30:58.858
way I want it.

00:30:58.948 --> 00:30:59.458
I want it to get?

00:30:59.458 --> 00:30:59.758
a good

00:30:59.758 --> 00:31:00.238
camera

00:31:00.238 --> 00:31:01.858
to capture really nice.

00:31:01.911 --> 00:31:02.451
You know,

00:31:02.533 --> 00:31:03.613
Alan: a good excuse anyway, right?

00:31:03.621 --> 00:31:05.331
Mario: HD video and actually I just got it

00:31:05.331 --> 00:31:06.261
today in the mail.

00:31:06.383 --> 00:31:06.733
Alan: Nice.

00:31:06.853 --> 00:31:07.453
What'd he get?

00:31:07.611 --> 00:31:09.431
Mario: it's a logitech Brio.

00:31:09.621 --> 00:31:10.221
it's a 4k

00:31:10.243 --> 00:31:10.543
Alan: cool.

00:31:11.481 --> 00:31:12.501
Mario: HD camera.

00:31:12.531 --> 00:31:13.461
It's It's really

00:31:13.461 --> 00:31:14.001
good.

00:31:14.031 --> 00:31:15.021
It's supposed to be good.

00:31:15.044 --> 00:31:17.084
So I just got it in the mail today, so

00:31:17.084 --> 00:31:20.182
I haven't really tried It
yet, but I haven't even

00:31:20.182 --> 00:31:22.215
opened the box yet, but I want to

00:31:22.241 --> 00:31:24.995
record this video and then
put her on the homepage and,

00:31:25.038 --> 00:31:28.265
A ton of other stuff that I,
that I have in mind to add to the

00:31:28.265 --> 00:31:29.485
website, but it will be little by

00:31:29.485 --> 00:31:29.965
little.

00:31:30.295 --> 00:31:31.555
And so for now it's just

00:31:31.692 --> 00:31:33.822
Alan: But so it can be
incremental improvements now.

00:31:33.822 --> 00:31:37.482
It's not like you've, you've got the
baseline done and you can, you can now

00:31:37.482 --> 00:31:39.282
start to focus on improving the content.

00:31:39.465 --> 00:31:39.825
Mario: Yup.

00:31:39.975 --> 00:31:40.305
Yup.

00:31:40.809 --> 00:31:43.119
Alan: I haven't, I've never used to
something because I don't have any

00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:47.636
experience with like Laravel or any
like modern PHP, you know, my, my first

00:31:47.676 --> 00:31:49.466
webapp was PHP, but that was a long

00:31:49.539 --> 00:31:52.569
Mario: long time ago, the old days of a

00:31:52.569 --> 00:31:55.009
obscure PHP.

00:31:55.266 --> 00:31:58.716
Alan: like, well, It's like
the, a levels.io all of

00:31:58.716 --> 00:31:59.496
my applications are

00:31:59.506 --> 00:32:01.626
pretty much one PHP file when it works.

00:32:01.709 --> 00:32:02.069
Mario: Yeah,

00:32:02.766 --> 00:32:03.806
Alan: It's like, it was like, it was like,

00:32:04.026 --> 00:32:04.236
it was

00:32:04.236 --> 00:32:05.076
adventurous when you

00:32:05.076 --> 00:32:06.936
had the second PHP file for you

00:32:07.099 --> 00:32:07.459
Mario: yeah.

00:32:07.539 --> 00:32:07.849
Yeah.

00:32:07.909 --> 00:32:11.509
I remember those days That's that's
when I started that's the way

00:32:11.509 --> 00:32:13.879
it was and it was all,
it was all procedural.

00:32:13.879 --> 00:32:15.129
No object oriented.

00:32:15.716 --> 00:32:17.996
Alan: No, I don't think he
even existed in PHP back then.

00:32:17.996 --> 00:32:19.046
There was, he had no objects or,

00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:20.049
Mario: Yeah.

00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:21.598
So no modern

00:32:21.610 --> 00:32:24.280
PHP development has come a long way.

00:32:24.308 --> 00:32:24.998
Alan: I've heard so

00:32:24.998 --> 00:32:25.808
many good things about it.

00:32:25.808 --> 00:32:26.048
Yeah.

00:32:26.108 --> 00:32:27.608
A lot of holes and yeah.

00:32:27.698 --> 00:32:28.838
And, And, stomach as well.

00:32:28.838 --> 00:32:29.618
I mean, I love

00:32:29.618 --> 00:32:31.448
the documentation and the

00:32:31.448 --> 00:32:33.248
homepage and it's just like, they really

00:32:33.248 --> 00:32:33.458
get

00:32:33.458 --> 00:32:34.868
that like spot on.

00:32:35.060 --> 00:32:35.540
Mario: Oh yeah.

00:32:36.128 --> 00:32:36.578
Alan: it's a,

00:32:36.598 --> 00:32:38.348
it, I, I don't even know
anything about the product, but I

00:32:38.348 --> 00:32:38.918
want to use this.

00:32:39.008 --> 00:32:39.518
This is cool.

00:32:40.380 --> 00:32:44.970
Mario: Jack McDade it he's one of
the co-founders he's the he's super

00:32:44.970 --> 00:32:50.440
talented designer and he, has a really
good, way of designing and also,

00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:52.105
Also has a good sense of humor.

00:32:52.105 --> 00:32:52.345
So

00:32:52.345 --> 00:32:54.385
you can see, you can see
that all throughout in

00:32:54.385 --> 00:32:54.445
the

00:32:54.445 --> 00:32:56.545
documentation and everything he creates.

00:32:56.545 --> 00:32:59.035
There's a sense of humor.

00:32:59.035 --> 00:32:59.545
Applied it to

00:32:59.545 --> 00:33:00.085
everything.

00:33:00.085 --> 00:33:01.513
And yeah, it's, I've met.

00:33:01.543 --> 00:33:01.963
I met him

00:33:01.963 --> 00:33:03.465
in person 2019 for

00:33:03.465 --> 00:33:05.185
the Laravel conference Laracon

00:33:05.205 --> 00:33:05.445
in the.

00:33:06.497 --> 00:33:06.797
Alan: Yeah

00:33:06.859 --> 00:33:07.189
Mario: and

00:33:07.189 --> 00:33:07.939
so I met him and

00:33:08.091 --> 00:33:09.161
Alan: conferences in person.

00:33:09.379 --> 00:33:12.019
Mario: yeah, it's, you know,
right before the pandemic

00:33:12.171 --> 00:33:12.441
Alan: days.

00:33:14.059 --> 00:33:14.659
Mario: right before the

00:33:14.659 --> 00:33:16.789
pandemic is the, it's the last one

00:33:16.789 --> 00:33:18.119
that happened.

00:33:18.119 --> 00:33:19.011
The 2020

00:33:19.031 --> 00:33:19.691
got canceled.

00:33:19.691 --> 00:33:20.231
Of course.

00:33:20.265 --> 00:33:22.065
So yeah, I met him in
person and really cool

00:33:22.065 --> 00:33:22.395
guy.

00:33:22.755 --> 00:33:23.145
Yeah.

00:33:23.835 --> 00:33:24.285
And

00:33:24.310 --> 00:33:25.972
Yeah, so that's,

00:33:26.002 --> 00:33:27.562
what's going on with the

00:33:27.574 --> 00:33:31.032
Alan: Do you have a, do you have
plans for cause your email list is

00:33:31.032 --> 00:33:33.732
probably reasonably large now or at

00:33:33.980 --> 00:33:34.430
Mario: you know,

00:33:34.602 --> 00:33:35.292
Alan: insignificant.

00:33:35.330 --> 00:33:37.160
Mario: it, you know,
it's not, it's not that

00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:41.240
large and that's one of the
reasons that I need to focus on

00:33:41.240 --> 00:33:44.180
marketing and I'm planning
to do this, you know,

00:33:44.750 --> 00:33:49.490
a split schedule kind of thing, because
they need to focus more on that.

00:33:49.550 --> 00:33:51.410
I haven't been promoting it as much as I

00:33:51.410 --> 00:33:52.040
should have.

00:33:52.075 --> 00:33:54.955
So my, my mailing list is not that large.

00:33:55.405 --> 00:33:55.899
So

00:33:55.899 --> 00:33:56.305
Yeah.

00:33:56.365 --> 00:33:59.565
That's and that's one of the reasons
I wanted, I wanted this website to

00:33:59.565 --> 00:34:04.088
be, kind of like the way it is now, so
that I can feel more confident about

00:34:04.118 --> 00:34:06.368
pointing people there
and promoting the product

00:34:06.368 --> 00:34:08.324
Alan: I part of, part of this I'm

00:34:08.324 --> 00:34:10.814
not going to say rebrand, but change to a

00:34:10.814 --> 00:34:11.444
more

00:34:11.527 --> 00:34:13.717
simpler style makes it easier

00:34:13.717 --> 00:34:16.207
to maintain consistency going forward.

00:34:16.207 --> 00:34:16.387
Right.

00:34:16.387 --> 00:34:16.747
As well.

00:34:16.987 --> 00:34:18.607
I think if you, your other

00:34:18.607 --> 00:34:21.817
landing page, it looked great,
but that also is like, you

00:34:22.057 --> 00:34:23.827
kind of almost have to commit

00:34:23.827 --> 00:34:24.577
to that, right?

00:34:25.087 --> 00:34:25.627
Full-time no.

00:34:25.627 --> 00:34:26.677
So not just the landing

00:34:26.677 --> 00:34:27.667
page, but you almost

00:34:27.667 --> 00:34:30.997
need to start about how does
your application fit with that?

00:34:30.997 --> 00:34:32.161
How do your emails,

00:34:32.232 --> 00:34:33.582
You know, your welcome mails, you want to

00:34:33.582 --> 00:34:37.392
try to make, look within that
same kind of branding, right?

00:34:37.392 --> 00:34:37.992
So, so that's

00:34:37.992 --> 00:34:38.832
a big commitment.

00:34:39.145 --> 00:34:40.825
Mario: yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:34:40.825 --> 00:34:41.485
And it's, it's too

00:34:41.485 --> 00:34:42.805
much for me.

00:34:42.805 --> 00:34:43.225
So

00:34:43.337 --> 00:34:44.027
Alan: least at this stage.

00:34:44.027 --> 00:34:44.177
yeah,

00:34:44.207 --> 00:34:44.597
for sure.

00:34:44.685 --> 00:34:47.305
Mario: I've been, I've been
trying to think more in terms of,

00:34:47.350 --> 00:34:48.330
You know, what's what.

00:34:49.375 --> 00:34:49.765
what.

00:34:49.765 --> 00:34:50.575
works best for

00:34:50.575 --> 00:34:53.065
me as an indie maker, solo

00:34:53.065 --> 00:34:53.665
founder.

00:34:53.746 --> 00:34:54.736
I have to,

00:34:54.824 --> 00:34:55.844
Alan: He said just be realistic.

00:34:55.936 --> 00:34:57.106
Mario: yeah, exactly.

00:34:57.106 --> 00:34:57.946
Be realistic

00:34:57.946 --> 00:34:59.296
with myself.

00:34:59.453 --> 00:35:00.183
what can I

00:35:00.201 --> 00:35:01.661
what are my limitations and,

00:35:01.661 --> 00:35:05.001
and, and what can I do with
the resources that I have?

00:35:05.032 --> 00:35:09.592
You know, I can't be designing
these extravagant website and

00:35:09.592 --> 00:35:10.312
spending all that time.

00:35:10.312 --> 00:35:11.572
I don't, I can't do that.

00:35:11.572 --> 00:35:11.962
So

00:35:12.232 --> 00:35:16.275
just keep it simple later on,
you know, that'll be time,

00:35:16.275 --> 00:35:17.115
you know, the right time will

00:35:17.115 --> 00:35:17.865
come later.

00:35:17.897 --> 00:35:18.729
Hopefully,

00:35:18.729 --> 00:35:21.579
you know, once I have more resources
and I can hire a designer and

00:35:21.579 --> 00:35:24.999
then, you know, it'll be a lot
easier to do that kind of stuff.

00:35:25.449 --> 00:35:28.419
So for now, simplicity, minimalism

00:35:28.449 --> 00:35:29.739
is what works.

00:35:30.662 --> 00:35:34.112
Alan: Well, it just means that it's
sustainable and maintainable and right.

00:35:34.459 --> 00:35:34.579
Mario: Yeah.

00:35:34.682 --> 00:35:36.152
Alan: You're not just going
to spend all your time

00:35:36.752 --> 00:35:39.202
tweaking emails because
they need to look right.

00:35:39.364 --> 00:35:39.754
Mario: Yeah.

00:35:39.904 --> 00:35:40.414
Yeah.

00:35:40.984 --> 00:35:41.404
Yeah.

00:35:42.334 --> 00:35:44.734
So that's about it, I

00:35:45.062 --> 00:35:46.802
Alan: This is why all
my interfaces are like

00:35:46.802 --> 00:35:47.342
blue,

00:35:48.374 --> 00:35:48.614
Mario: yeah,

00:35:48.722 --> 00:35:48.962
Alan: blue,

00:35:48.962 --> 00:35:49.292
up level.

00:35:49.292 --> 00:35:50.702
It's like, well, I can't choose a

00:35:50.702 --> 00:35:51.362
wrong color there.

00:35:51.362 --> 00:35:51.782
Everything's

00:35:51.782 --> 00:35:52.592
just shades of blue.

00:35:53.912 --> 00:35:54.962
I'll tailwind, indigo.

00:35:54.992 --> 00:35:55.442
Pretty much

00:35:55.494 --> 00:35:55.914
Mario: yeah.

00:35:55.914 --> 00:35:56.244
There you

00:35:56.244 --> 00:35:56.424
go.

00:35:57.662 --> 00:35:59.762
Alan: like, well, how bad can I make it?

00:35:59.762 --> 00:36:00.002
Look?

00:36:00.234 --> 00:36:00.654
Mario: Yeah.

00:36:02.574 --> 00:36:02.784
Yeah.

00:36:02.784 --> 00:36:03.084
I think.

00:36:03.084 --> 00:36:03.594
that's about

00:36:03.594 --> 00:36:04.644
it on my end.

00:36:04.647 --> 00:36:05.143
The only other

00:36:05.143 --> 00:36:05.893
thing is

00:36:05.923 --> 00:36:06.913
now we have,

00:36:06.940 --> 00:36:08.680
We've successfully launched our

00:36:08.680 --> 00:36:09.280
podcast,

00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:10.720
at least with the trailer,

00:36:10.761 --> 00:36:11.721
Just the trailer,

00:36:11.789 --> 00:36:11.969
Alan: Bye.

00:36:12.105 --> 00:36:13.965
Mario: Folks listening to this later on,

00:36:14.051 --> 00:36:15.191
Will be kind of

00:36:15.191 --> 00:36:15.851
all news by

00:36:15.851 --> 00:36:16.121
then,

00:36:16.121 --> 00:36:16.481
but

00:36:16.683 --> 00:36:16.903
Alan: Yeah,

00:36:17.411 --> 00:36:17.951
Mario: it is new

00:36:17.951 --> 00:36:18.581
to us

00:36:18.641 --> 00:36:19.226
right now.

00:36:19.245 --> 00:36:19.365
Alan: Yeah.

00:36:19.385 --> 00:36:20.115
Thank you for right.

00:36:20.115 --> 00:36:20.355
Yeah.

00:36:20.385 --> 00:36:21.035
Good, good work.

00:36:21.645 --> 00:36:21.945
that out.

00:36:22.053 --> 00:36:24.453
Mario: Yeah, I was able
to put that together and

00:36:24.522 --> 00:36:25.122
publish it.

00:36:25.122 --> 00:36:26.532
So it's, it's out there now.

00:36:27.105 --> 00:36:27.475
Alan: Yeah, yeah.

00:36:27.485 --> 00:36:29.355
Yeah, I think, I've picked
up by everything apart

00:36:29.355 --> 00:36:30.705
from Google podcasts maybe.

00:36:31.507 --> 00:36:31.837
Mario: Yeah,

00:36:31.837 --> 00:36:34.207
I think, I think I'd already picked it up.

00:36:34.585 --> 00:36:34.975
Alan: Oh really?

00:36:34.975 --> 00:36:35.335
Okay.

00:36:35.497 --> 00:36:36.277
Mario: I think so.

00:36:36.577 --> 00:36:37.907
I haven't checked, but

00:36:37.934 --> 00:36:42.014
it's a good thing that we have
that now, so that when the first

00:36:42.014 --> 00:36:46.024
actual episode is published you know,
it goes, goes straight through and

00:36:46.024 --> 00:36:48.514
doesn't it doesn't we
don't have to wait for,

00:36:48.941 --> 00:36:49.151
Alan: Right.

00:36:49.391 --> 00:36:51.761
Cause otherwise you'd be like, it's
a new episode, but you can't listen

00:36:51.761 --> 00:36:53.021
to it because it's not an apple yet.

00:36:53.021 --> 00:36:56.381
So at least now everything's set up
and it'll just kind of flow through.

00:36:56.381 --> 00:36:56.621
Right.

00:36:56.804 --> 00:36:57.044
Mario: Yeah.

00:36:57.044 --> 00:37:01.374
And I've been doing editing on the,
on, on the episodes that we recorded.

00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:03.108
And that's one of the things I wanted to

00:37:03.108 --> 00:37:03.318
talk

00:37:03.318 --> 00:37:04.398
to you about actually.

00:37:04.398 --> 00:37:07.248
So I think that's the
last thing on my end.

00:37:07.388 --> 00:37:10.981
It's it's the, the recording editing,

00:37:10.981 --> 00:37:11.756
I,

00:37:12.296 --> 00:37:12.416
I

00:37:12.416 --> 00:37:17.336
think there, there needs to be some
editing done in all the sessions that

00:37:17.336 --> 00:37:18.146
we recorded my

00:37:18.146 --> 00:37:20.306
goal, or I was hoping that we

00:37:20.456 --> 00:37:21.176
wouldn't have to re

00:37:21.266 --> 00:37:24.056
you know, do a lot of editing,
but because it takes so

00:37:24.056 --> 00:37:24.596
long.

00:37:24.706 --> 00:37:25.109
But

00:37:25.109 --> 00:37:25.819
At some point we'll

00:37:25.819 --> 00:37:27.109
have to figure out

00:37:27.109 --> 00:37:27.529
if there's a

00:37:27.529 --> 00:37:27.919
way we

00:37:27.919 --> 00:37:30.079
can outsource the editing,

00:37:30.259 --> 00:37:30.629
you know,

00:37:30.629 --> 00:37:31.490
Or, or

00:37:31.490 --> 00:37:34.460
we get better at recording so that
we don't have to edit anything.

00:37:34.688 --> 00:37:38.048
Alan: about to say, I hopefully
you'll find that the later

00:37:38.048 --> 00:37:39.368
ones require less editing.

00:37:39.368 --> 00:37:39.608
Right.

00:37:39.608 --> 00:37:44.858
I think we've gotten a little bit better
about being aware of what we're doing.

00:37:45.120 --> 00:37:45.630
Mario: yeah,

00:37:45.728 --> 00:37:46.118
Alan: I hope

00:37:46.680 --> 00:37:46.920
Mario: yeah,

00:37:46.950 --> 00:37:47.490
exactly.

00:37:47.490 --> 00:37:48.570
And, and in the, in

00:37:48.570 --> 00:37:50.670
the spirit of transparency, I wanted

00:37:50.670 --> 00:37:50.940
to

00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:52.410
talk about

00:37:52.410 --> 00:37:56.400
this and let it be part of the
podcast and for others to listen.

00:37:56.430 --> 00:37:57.240
Cause you know, it

00:37:57.270 --> 00:37:57.690
could be

00:37:57.769 --> 00:37:58.639
Alan: educational show.

00:37:58.897 --> 00:37:59.797
Mario: educational thing.

00:37:59.797 --> 00:38:00.637
Yeah, exactly.

00:38:00.723 --> 00:38:01.233
So one

00:38:01.233 --> 00:38:03.333
thing that I've noticed
as I'm doing editing is

00:38:03.333 --> 00:38:07.731
that we tend to talk over each
other sometimes, you know?

00:38:07.911 --> 00:38:11.781
and so when that happens, it
sounds really bad on the podcast.

00:38:11.781 --> 00:38:17.271
So I'm having to edit things out
and kind of like choose which one

00:38:17.271 --> 00:38:19.641
of us is saying the main thing.

00:38:19.641 --> 00:38:20.301
So, So,

00:38:20.301 --> 00:38:21.771
that way that stays.

00:38:21.771 --> 00:38:25.079
And then if, if the other one
was trying to say, something and

00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:27.209
then it stops, then that gets cut

00:38:27.209 --> 00:38:27.492
out.

00:38:27.492 --> 00:38:27.683
So

00:38:27.683 --> 00:38:32.167
going through that and so that's
something that we can improve, you

00:38:32.167 --> 00:38:34.749
know try not to talk over each other.

00:38:34.776 --> 00:38:35.586
And the other thing

00:38:35.586 --> 00:38:37.446
is I've noticed with myself,

00:38:38.346 --> 00:38:39.906
That I speak very slowly.

00:38:40.146 --> 00:38:42.516
I'm like, oh man, like I sound

00:38:42.516 --> 00:38:43.356
super slow.

00:38:43.356 --> 00:38:43.716
Like,

00:38:43.806 --> 00:38:46.280
cause I guess I tend to find the

00:38:46.346 --> 00:38:48.356
right words, you know, before I speak.

00:38:48.356 --> 00:38:49.793
And I kind of like maybe

00:38:49.793 --> 00:38:50.903
overthink what I'm

00:38:50.903 --> 00:38:53.003
saying and I don't want
to say the wrong thing.

00:38:53.023 --> 00:38:53.273
So I

00:38:53.273 --> 00:38:53.783
kind of take

00:38:53.783 --> 00:38:56.315
pauses and, and especially the

00:38:56.315 --> 00:38:58.235
first and maybe you're Right?

00:38:58.265 --> 00:38:59.795
Maybe it's part of, part of it

00:38:59.795 --> 00:39:02.285
is that it's the first episodes where,

00:39:02.315 --> 00:39:03.695
you know, we don't know, what we're doing.

00:39:03.695 --> 00:39:03.785
we

00:39:03.785 --> 00:39:04.175
don't have,

00:39:05.555 --> 00:39:07.175
we don't have that much experience.

00:39:07.355 --> 00:39:07.955
So

00:39:08.112 --> 00:39:09.552
I found myself pausing a

00:39:09.552 --> 00:39:10.032
lot.

00:39:10.032 --> 00:39:10.932
And so I'm trying to,

00:39:10.992 --> 00:39:11.502
you know, edit

00:39:11.502 --> 00:39:14.397
that out and and hopefully
as we progress, we

00:39:14.397 --> 00:39:14.607
get

00:39:14.607 --> 00:39:17.277
better and more comfortable
with talking and

00:39:17.404 --> 00:39:19.324
Alan: Have you tried using a descript?

00:39:20.007 --> 00:39:22.227
Mario: no, I haven't, no, I haven't.

00:39:22.257 --> 00:39:26.937
I know that they have a lot of crazy
features for editing and stuff.

00:39:27.409 --> 00:39:28.069
Alan: The biggest thing.

00:39:28.069 --> 00:39:34.198
So when I did just a short video for
my presentation, I did adult plan just

00:39:34.198 --> 00:39:40.948
being able to edit the audio as if it
was text, just being, looking at it and

00:39:40.948 --> 00:39:42.628
thinking that paragraph, I can delete

00:39:42.628 --> 00:39:44.548
that and just hitting, delete that word,

00:39:45.088 --> 00:39:47.158
delete that it's like so

00:39:47.158 --> 00:39:47.593
useful.

00:39:47.593 --> 00:39:48.283
to do that

00:39:48.313 --> 00:39:51.133
in, in, an audio editor
would have just been a

00:39:51.133 --> 00:39:51.613
nightmare.

00:39:51.613 --> 00:39:52.513
So yeah, it,

00:39:52.783 --> 00:39:54.523
that might speed things up a little bit.

00:39:54.603 --> 00:39:55.383
Obviously we've got

00:39:55.383 --> 00:39:57.243
latency against us as well,

00:39:57.243 --> 00:39:58.158
which doesn't help.

00:39:58.169 --> 00:40:00.509
But so it's funny, you mentioned

00:40:00.509 --> 00:40:00.729
like

00:40:00.729 --> 00:40:04.508
speaking speed because you're when
I listened to the trailer like

00:40:05.618 --> 00:40:07.468
I speak a lot quicker than Mario.

00:40:08.378 --> 00:40:09.278
I was like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:40:09.458 --> 00:40:10.628
And you're like, blah, blah, blah.

00:40:11.048 --> 00:40:13.508
like, okay, either we need to
meet somewhere in the middle.

00:40:13.508 --> 00:40:13.658
Right.

00:40:14.086 --> 00:40:15.076
Mario: Yeah, exactly.

00:40:15.076 --> 00:40:16.456
So, I mean, one of the things they

00:40:16.456 --> 00:40:18.921
say is that when, when you're I've

00:40:18.921 --> 00:40:22.311
heard this in the context of
conference, speaking for example, right.

00:40:22.341 --> 00:40:23.631
When you're

00:40:23.631 --> 00:40:27.909
speaking to an audience one of the things
that happens is if you're nervous, you

00:40:27.909 --> 00:40:30.189
speak faster because you're nervous.

00:40:30.189 --> 00:40:33.819
So you speak a lot faster kind of
thing, or, you know, and so they always

00:40:33.819 --> 00:40:38.130
say you know, speak slower than
what you normally do or what

00:40:38.130 --> 00:40:40.050
you think you should be speaking,

00:40:40.267 --> 00:40:42.367
Alan: Almost to the point
where it feels uncomfortable.

00:40:42.367 --> 00:40:45.518
So when I did I've done public
speaking, like three or four times

00:40:45.518 --> 00:40:47.588
now, reasonably large conferences.

00:40:47.948 --> 00:40:49.988
I remember the one I enjoyed the most.

00:40:50.067 --> 00:40:55.347
I got to the point where I was, I felt
completely wrong to be speaking this

00:40:55.347 --> 00:40:57.627
slowly, but it was also the one which

00:40:57.627 --> 00:40:59.517
people responded to the

00:40:59.517 --> 00:40:59.847
best.

00:40:59.847 --> 00:41:01.407
People came up to me
after, as I said, it was

00:41:01.407 --> 00:41:01.857
really good.

00:41:01.857 --> 00:41:03.147
I'm like, did I not

00:41:03.177 --> 00:41:04.317
like sound weird?

00:41:04.737 --> 00:41:07.167
I was like, just to the point where

00:41:07.167 --> 00:41:11.757
it feels like to myself, I'm
walking through mud or, something.

00:41:11.874 --> 00:41:12.264
I guess

00:41:12.264 --> 00:41:15.954
that's just the change from
my usual speaking pattern.

00:41:16.224 --> 00:41:16.824
To me, it

00:41:16.824 --> 00:41:18.444
felt like really,

00:41:19.014 --> 00:41:20.634
but a bit it seemed to work.

00:41:20.634 --> 00:41:23.544
So, yeah, I guess that's
just my, you know,

00:41:24.167 --> 00:41:24.377
Mario: Yeah.

00:41:24.564 --> 00:41:25.194
Alan: my problem,

00:41:26.327 --> 00:41:27.557
Mario: So for me, it's the opposite.

00:41:27.557 --> 00:41:30.287
I need to speed up a little, you
need to slow down a little and

00:41:30.317 --> 00:41:31.667
we'll meet in the middle of somewhere.

00:41:33.024 --> 00:41:35.364
Alan: As, although it's funny
because I listened to podcasts

00:41:35.364 --> 00:41:36.834
with overcast to you, probably the

00:41:36.834 --> 00:41:37.300
same rate.

00:41:37.366 --> 00:41:44.026
And they use their smart speed plus
listen to things at about 1.3, 1.4 times

00:41:44.026 --> 00:41:44.446
anyway.

00:41:44.828 --> 00:41:45.188
Mario: the same.

00:41:45.796 --> 00:41:46.036
Alan: right.

00:41:46.216 --> 00:41:46.876
So

00:41:47.146 --> 00:41:48.766
I think one of the most

00:41:50.056 --> 00:41:50.836
weirdest things for

00:41:50.836 --> 00:41:52.456
me is John Gruber,

00:41:52.482 --> 00:41:56.633
On, you know, daring fireball
guy if listening to his podcasts

00:41:56.663 --> 00:41:58.763
on normal speed by accident.

00:41:58.828 --> 00:41:59.304
Cause I, I

00:41:59.304 --> 00:42:00.654
think I played in, on a

00:42:00.654 --> 00:42:02.244
web sometime rather than

00:42:02.244 --> 00:42:02.844
listening to it

00:42:02.934 --> 00:42:03.744
in overcast.

00:42:03.984 --> 00:42:05.184
And I'm like, is he okay?

00:42:05.664 --> 00:42:06.234
Sounds like,

00:42:06.234 --> 00:42:07.164
something's wrong.

00:42:07.967 --> 00:42:09.137
Mario: it sounds so slow.

00:42:09.324 --> 00:42:10.194
Alan: yeah, I was like

00:42:10.764 --> 00:42:13.794
something, something, some problem
I'm like, oh no, it's just, I'm

00:42:13.794 --> 00:42:15.024
used to listening to everything.

00:42:15.024 --> 00:42:15.474
Kind of like

00:42:15.504 --> 00:42:15.774
so

00:42:15.774 --> 00:42:16.164
sped.

00:42:16.517 --> 00:42:16.877
Mario: Oh yeah.

00:42:16.877 --> 00:42:18.617
I totally experienced the same thing.

00:42:18.647 --> 00:42:19.337
Totally.

00:42:19.337 --> 00:42:19.637
Yeah.

00:42:19.637 --> 00:42:19.817
I've

00:42:19.817 --> 00:42:21.467
done that before and it's like, oh

00:42:22.757 --> 00:42:22.997
yeah,

00:42:23.627 --> 00:42:23.897
Yeah.

00:42:24.107 --> 00:42:24.437
Even the

00:42:24.437 --> 00:42:24.947
music of

00:42:24.947 --> 00:42:26.361
some podcasts you know,

00:42:26.361 --> 00:42:26.601
like

00:42:27.081 --> 00:42:30.581
if I listened to it and
then the sped up, you know,

00:42:30.591 --> 00:42:32.181
way that I normally do

00:42:32.198 --> 00:42:33.098
Alan: becomes normal, right?

00:42:33.141 --> 00:42:34.491
Mario: that becomes
normal, It sounds great.

00:42:34.491 --> 00:42:34.821
And then I

00:42:34.821 --> 00:42:35.451
listened to it in

00:42:35.451 --> 00:42:35.541
the

00:42:35.541 --> 00:42:36.441
north, in the,

00:42:36.501 --> 00:42:37.101
you know, normal

00:42:37.101 --> 00:42:38.421
speed and it's like, whoa.

00:42:38.471 --> 00:42:39.261
So slow.

00:42:39.261 --> 00:42:40.701
Like, it sounds horrible.

00:42:42.528 --> 00:42:42.828
Alan: Yep.

00:42:42.876 --> 00:42:43.176
Mario: Yeah.

00:42:43.176 --> 00:42:44.196
It's it's, it's weird.

00:42:44.688 --> 00:42:45.198
Alan: But I, Yeah.

00:42:45.198 --> 00:42:49.665
so I think if we just try to be a
little bit more conscious of again,

00:42:49.665 --> 00:42:56.025
this is probably me mode of waiting
till everything's finished before.

00:42:56.066 --> 00:42:56.299
Yeah.

00:42:56.329 --> 00:42:57.019
Making my point.

00:42:57.093 --> 00:42:57.783
It's like, yeah.

00:42:57.813 --> 00:43:00.303
Try to just try to hold back Ellen,

00:43:00.531 --> 00:43:03.621
Mario: Yeah, but it's,
not just, you it's me too.

00:43:03.711 --> 00:43:08.224
It's not just you it's, it's both of
us, but it comes with practice, right.

00:43:08.524 --> 00:43:09.274
With experience.

00:43:09.274 --> 00:43:10.534
We'll get better at that.

00:43:10.591 --> 00:43:13.681
You know, it's our first
recording, so we're, we're

00:43:13.681 --> 00:43:16.231
still learning this thing and

00:43:16.403 --> 00:43:17.583
Alan: a disclaimer at the beginning.

00:43:17.603 --> 00:43:19.763
Cause say, w we're still figuring this

00:43:19.763 --> 00:43:19.883
out.

00:43:20.231 --> 00:43:20.831
Mario: yeah.

00:43:20.831 --> 00:43:21.221
Right.

00:43:22.763 --> 00:43:24.173
Alan: But I think even

00:43:24.173 --> 00:43:24.593
just

00:43:25.613 --> 00:43:26.793
as we're speaking now,

00:43:26.817 --> 00:43:28.497
Even for the last few episodes we've

00:43:28.497 --> 00:43:30.546
recorded they, they do seem a little bit

00:43:30.546 --> 00:43:30.996
more

00:43:31.386 --> 00:43:32.196
structured

00:43:32.256 --> 00:43:34.113
and paste maybe.

00:43:34.113 --> 00:43:35.343
So hopefully that's

00:43:35.343 --> 00:43:36.153
something we can keep

00:43:36.153 --> 00:43:36.873
improving on.

00:43:36.903 --> 00:43:38.073
So hopefully people

00:43:38.073 --> 00:43:39.513
will bear with us long enough that

00:43:39.527 --> 00:43:39.814
Mario: Yeah.

00:43:40.726 --> 00:43:41.386
Alan: very quits on.

00:43:41.386 --> 00:43:42.136
the first episode

00:43:42.136 --> 00:43:42.706
at the heels of this

00:43:42.706 --> 00:43:43.066
rubbish.

00:43:44.774 --> 00:43:45.884
Mario: We can only hope.

00:43:46.184 --> 00:43:46.544
Right.

00:43:48.674 --> 00:43:49.104
So,

00:43:49.246 --> 00:43:50.836
Alan: I guess it's just
one of those things of

00:43:50.836 --> 00:43:51.466
just, yeah.

00:43:51.496 --> 00:43:51.706
just,

00:43:51.736 --> 00:43:54.076
compounding experience and quality

00:43:54.076 --> 00:43:54.256
over

00:43:54.256 --> 00:43:54.496
time.

00:43:54.496 --> 00:43:54.646
Right.

00:43:54.646 --> 00:43:56.446
You know, we're never gonna, you're
not going to get things right on the

00:43:56.446 --> 00:43:56.926
first pass,

00:43:56.926 --> 00:43:58.816
so just keep working

00:43:59.044 --> 00:43:59.374
Mario: yup.

00:43:59.584 --> 00:43:59.824
Yup.

00:43:59.884 --> 00:44:00.904
Let's just keep at it.

00:44:01.084 --> 00:44:02.224
Practice makes perfect.

00:44:02.224 --> 00:44:06.454
So we'll keep chipping away at it.

00:44:06.474 --> 00:44:06.703
Yeah.

00:44:06.943 --> 00:44:08.263
I think that's it on my end.

00:44:08.263 --> 00:44:09.975
So anything else you want to share

00:44:09.988 --> 00:44:10.138
Alan: yeah.

00:44:10.138 --> 00:44:11.848
W one, one nice thing was,

00:44:11.894 --> 00:44:14.026
I got approved for Paddle,

00:44:14.050 --> 00:44:14.710
Payments.

00:44:14.980 --> 00:44:15.220
Yeah.

00:44:15.430 --> 00:44:20.920
So they were, when I first spoke to
them a few months back, they're like,

00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:22.060
yeah, come back when you're finished.

00:44:22.390 --> 00:44:22.690
I'm like,

00:44:22.780 --> 00:44:23.230
okay,

00:44:25.030 --> 00:44:25.540
that's nice.

00:44:25.600 --> 00:44:27.310
We're for products who have actually

00:44:27.400 --> 00:44:29.500
been finished building,
I'm like, oh, okay.

00:44:29.530 --> 00:44:29.920
Thanks that.

00:44:30.230 --> 00:44:35.877
So it was, it was a slight burn,
but so I mailed them the other day.

00:44:35.877 --> 00:44:37.497
I'm like, so I'm ready now.

00:44:37.767 --> 00:44:39.447
Cause it's going to take
time to integrate that

00:44:39.447 --> 00:44:39.897
anyway.

00:44:40.017 --> 00:44:43.347
And I just, I don't want to be at the
point where I'm like, okay, now I can go.

00:44:43.347 --> 00:44:44.067
And now I've got to

00:44:44.067 --> 00:44:45.597
go and way and build in

00:44:45.627 --> 00:44:46.077
payments.

00:44:46.077 --> 00:44:48.627
So I wanted to at least get that moving.

00:44:49.437 --> 00:44:49.776
And

00:44:49.793 --> 00:44:53.485
So they were like okay, can you
you know, explain your product.

00:44:53.935 --> 00:44:54.805
So I did that.

00:44:55.195 --> 00:44:57.055
And then that they.

00:44:57.173 --> 00:45:00.533
Strange, strange to me worded email.

00:45:00.563 --> 00:45:04.193
That was like, it sounds like your
product has human interaction.

00:45:04.433 --> 00:45:04.913
Does it?

00:45:05.213 --> 00:45:07.763
And I'm like, yeah, of
course it does everything.

00:45:08.063 --> 00:45:11.813
I'm like everything requires
human interaction it's and they

00:45:11.813 --> 00:45:14.573
were like, okay, so we can't use
it because you're not allowed

00:45:14.573 --> 00:45:17.093
to have human based services

00:45:17.123 --> 00:45:17.623
on Paddle.

00:45:17.693 --> 00:45:18.383
There has to be

00:45:18.563 --> 00:45:19.583
automated software.

00:45:19.583 --> 00:45:22.373
Like we, I sell software and they use it.

00:45:22.523 --> 00:45:23.423
They meant me.

00:45:23.543 --> 00:45:24.143
Not them.

00:45:24.243 --> 00:45:26.123
I read it as humans, as in my

00:45:26.123 --> 00:45:29.153
users, they mean humans as in me.

00:45:29.153 --> 00:45:30.683
So you're not allowed to sell like a

00:45:30.713 --> 00:45:31.223
consulting

00:45:31.421 --> 00:45:32.441
Mario: like a productized

00:45:32.441 --> 00:45:34.241
service or, you know, something like that.

00:45:34.523 --> 00:45:37.883
Alan: So it has to be software that
is like, self-service effectively

00:45:37.913 --> 00:45:38.423
either

00:45:38.553 --> 00:45:38.933
an

00:45:38.933 --> 00:45:41.263
application or a subscription
service or something.

00:45:41.273 --> 00:45:43.763
It has to be not involve me

00:45:43.763 --> 00:45:45.196
to So I'm like, oh no, no, no, no.

00:45:45.196 --> 00:45:45.466
That's

00:45:46.546 --> 00:45:48.316
because they were like, well,
in that case, you can't use it.

00:45:48.316 --> 00:45:49.486
Here's a link to our,

00:45:49.570 --> 00:45:50.350
Service policy.

00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:51.910
And I'm like, oh no,

00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:52.780
I there's.

00:45:52.780 --> 00:45:55.060
No, there's no humans involved

00:45:55.330 --> 00:45:56.620
in making this service.

00:45:56.812 --> 00:45:57.262
Mario: yeah.

00:45:57.292 --> 00:45:57.772
Yeah.

00:45:57.922 --> 00:45:58.102
that.

00:45:58.102 --> 00:45:58.612
makes sense.

00:45:58.972 --> 00:46:01.132
But that's a poorly worded

00:46:01.162 --> 00:46:01.852
question.

00:46:01.852 --> 00:46:03.139
Sounds like the.

00:46:03.357 --> 00:46:04.407
Alan: it's one of those things.

00:46:04.407 --> 00:46:04.857
If you

00:46:04.857 --> 00:46:05.307
read

00:46:05.307 --> 00:46:05.847
their

00:46:06.447 --> 00:46:08.547
terms of S if they read, if you read the

00:46:08.547 --> 00:46:09.087
document

00:46:09.087 --> 00:46:11.427
that they sent afterwards beforehand,

00:46:11.487 --> 00:46:11.637
it

00:46:11.637 --> 00:46:14.478
makes sense because it
literally use uses the same

00:46:14.478 --> 00:46:16.428
words, you know, human led

00:46:16.428 --> 00:46:17.388
interactions or

00:46:17.388 --> 00:46:17.838
something.

00:46:17.969 --> 00:46:20.099
But when that's out of context, in

00:46:20.099 --> 00:46:21.089
an email, it reads

00:46:21.089 --> 00:46:21.929
completely differently.

00:46:22.019 --> 00:46:23.530
And it's like, what do you mean you?

00:46:23.530 --> 00:46:24.490
Of course it uses humans.

00:46:24.508 --> 00:46:25.018
Mario: Yeah.

00:46:25.138 --> 00:46:25.528
I mean,

00:46:26.608 --> 00:46:28.168
it's not just some bot

00:46:28.210 --> 00:46:29.230
Alan: Well, your reaction was

00:46:29.278 --> 00:46:29.338
Mario: the

00:46:29.350 --> 00:46:29.680
Alan: same.

00:46:30.220 --> 00:46:31.420
Your reaction was the same as mine.

00:46:31.420 --> 00:46:32.230
Of course it is right.

00:46:32.508 --> 00:46:32.928
Mario: Yeah.

00:46:34.368 --> 00:46:34.668
Yeah.

00:46:34.668 --> 00:46:35.538
That makes no sense.

00:46:36.198 --> 00:46:36.648
Yeah.

00:46:36.651 --> 00:46:38.224
Alan: When we cleared that up, they said,

00:46:38.224 --> 00:46:41.524
could you send through a a video
of your product being used?

00:46:41.524 --> 00:46:42.994
So actually just sent them

00:46:43.324 --> 00:46:44.524
a link to my onboarding,

00:46:44.554 --> 00:46:46.097
like video that's embedded right now.

00:46:46.127 --> 00:46:48.197
And three days later,

00:46:48.467 --> 00:46:49.877
which was yesterday, they came back and

00:46:49.877 --> 00:46:51.497
said, great, you're fine.

00:46:51.527 --> 00:46:52.037
You can do it.

00:46:52.141 --> 00:46:54.241
You need to send just legal stuff now.

00:46:54.301 --> 00:46:56.881
So I'm like, so that's

00:46:56.911 --> 00:46:57.151
good.

00:46:57.281 --> 00:46:57.761
Mario: Awesome.

00:46:57.821 --> 00:46:58.751
Congratulations.

00:46:58.983 --> 00:46:59.163
Alan: now.

00:46:59.283 --> 00:46:59.583
Thank you.

00:46:59.613 --> 00:47:02.253
So I've got no excuse not
to charge people now, right?

00:47:02.253 --> 00:47:02.613
I guess,

00:47:03.411 --> 00:47:04.071
Mario: There you go.

00:47:04.701 --> 00:47:05.421
Congrats.

00:47:05.451 --> 00:47:07.308
Yeah, you gotta get up with that

00:47:07.308 --> 00:47:08.431
payment page up.

00:47:09.743 --> 00:47:10.853
Alan: well, at least I can write it now I

00:47:10.853 --> 00:47:11.033
can

00:47:11.033 --> 00:47:11.603
build the page.

00:47:11.603 --> 00:47:12.533
So they have a

00:47:12.533 --> 00:47:13.433
sun box thing.

00:47:13.433 --> 00:47:15.293
So I'm going to just
play around with that.

00:47:15.323 --> 00:47:17.993
And that also means I've got to
think about pricing, which is I've

00:47:17.993 --> 00:47:19.283
been putting off for way too long as

00:47:19.283 --> 00:47:19.463
well.

00:47:19.463 --> 00:47:19.763
So,

00:47:19.901 --> 00:47:20.261
Mario: Oh, nice.

00:47:20.261 --> 00:47:22.601
So, they, they do have a
sandbox kind of like Stripe

00:47:22.751 --> 00:47:23.741
as a sandbox.

00:47:23.891 --> 00:47:24.281
Oh, okay.

00:47:24.281 --> 00:47:24.641
Cool.

00:47:24.758 --> 00:47:27.338
Alan: So, I mean, I
chose pebble over cause I

00:47:27.338 --> 00:47:28.358
noticed like Stripe now

00:47:28.358 --> 00:47:28.921
have they're

00:47:28.921 --> 00:47:31.229
launching attacks, Stripe tax and things.

00:47:31.229 --> 00:47:33.017
The biggest thing for
me is the fact that I'm

00:47:33.017 --> 00:47:36.246
selling immediately off
the bat to three countries.

00:47:36.265 --> 00:47:36.955
At least that's,

00:47:37.045 --> 00:47:38.605
you know, my, the beta users

00:47:38.605 --> 00:47:40.852
and hopefully people who
will pay they're already in

00:47:40.852 --> 00:47:41.542
three countries

00:47:41.812 --> 00:47:43.432
and that means three different sets

00:47:43.432 --> 00:47:43.582
of

00:47:43.582 --> 00:47:46.552
sales tax and the, the U
S has particular you've

00:47:46.552 --> 00:47:48.166
then got multiple states to deal with

00:47:48.166 --> 00:47:52.115
So I'd be looking at like having
to do five sets of tax Filings,

00:47:52.325 --> 00:47:55.865
even a sales tax filings, even
on day one, as long as all

00:47:55.865 --> 00:47:57.335
the beta users end up paying.

00:47:57.335 --> 00:47:57.575
Right.

00:47:57.905 --> 00:47:58.745
Which is like

00:47:58.775 --> 00:48:00.095
I don't want to deal with that.

00:48:00.785 --> 00:48:02.105
That's not, and I don't want to get it

00:48:02.105 --> 00:48:02.705
wrong either.

00:48:03.035 --> 00:48:05.645
So a and Stripe also doesn't strike tax.

00:48:05.645 --> 00:48:07.685
Doesn't want doesn't support Japan

00:48:07.715 --> 00:48:09.005
in its initial version.

00:48:09.065 --> 00:48:09.635
It will do.

00:48:09.635 --> 00:48:10.025
I'm sure.

00:48:10.715 --> 00:48:11.135
I'm sure it.

00:48:11.135 --> 00:48:11.285
will.

00:48:11.495 --> 00:48:12.695
And plus they don't file for you.

00:48:12.695 --> 00:48:14.105
They just tell you what to do.

00:48:14.141 --> 00:48:14.471
So

00:48:14.694 --> 00:48:16.747
Mario: They don't have
that component yet, but

00:48:16.765 --> 00:48:17.915
apparently they're working on it.

00:48:18.302 --> 00:48:19.202
Alan: yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:48:19.502 --> 00:48:24.002
So this initial version will be like, you
need to file this document, click here

00:48:24.212 --> 00:48:26.762
in order to go to the thing in order to

00:48:26.762 --> 00:48:27.302
file it.

00:48:27.542 --> 00:48:28.508
So whereas

00:48:28.508 --> 00:48:30.968
Paddle is like, because
they're the merchant of record.

00:48:30.998 --> 00:48:32.918
They effectively sell the product for you.

00:48:32.918 --> 00:48:34.265
I think same as Outseta.

00:48:34.265 --> 00:48:34.485
Right.

00:48:34.500 --> 00:48:34.892
They

00:48:35.342 --> 00:48:36.272
S I think

00:48:36.482 --> 00:48:36.732
oh, no.

00:48:36.732 --> 00:48:37.922
Cause that connects to Stripe.

00:48:37.922 --> 00:48:38.282
Doesn't it?

00:48:38.380 --> 00:48:38.560
Mario: it

00:48:38.560 --> 00:48:39.310
connects a Stripe.

00:48:39.370 --> 00:48:39.700
Yeah.

00:48:39.700 --> 00:48:43.330
They don't they don't, it doesn't work
the same way they connect to Stripe.

00:48:43.630 --> 00:48:46.930
And I think there's a way to
specify the tax that you want to

00:48:46.930 --> 00:48:48.220
collect, but, you have to Do it

00:48:48.220 --> 00:48:48.790
yourself.

00:48:49.600 --> 00:48:50.020
Yeah.

00:48:50.947 --> 00:48:53.617
Alan: that was one thing that I'm
just that, especially since I'm

00:48:53.617 --> 00:48:58.867
dealing with, you know, Japanese tax
authorities, which is not my area of

00:48:58.867 --> 00:49:00.757
expertise, I'm like not messing around

00:49:01.470 --> 00:49:01.890
Mario: Yeah.

00:49:02.317 --> 00:49:03.997
Alan: or use somebody who
knows what they're doing.

00:49:04.520 --> 00:49:07.160
Mario: Overall, how, how
was the process of getting

00:49:07.160 --> 00:49:09.860
approved with, with paddle for you?

00:49:10.207 --> 00:49:11.647
Alan: I mean, apart from that

00:49:11.647 --> 00:49:12.877
slight misunderstanding, it

00:49:12.877 --> 00:49:14.197
was, it was straightforward.

00:49:14.257 --> 00:49:15.547
They would just like, explain what it

00:49:15.547 --> 00:49:16.147
does.

00:49:16.285 --> 00:49:18.335
Why you why you need this effectively?

00:49:18.335 --> 00:49:20.285
Why, what does your product do?

00:49:20.285 --> 00:49:20.645
What,

00:49:20.762 --> 00:49:21.732
Yeah, they're basically just said

00:49:21.842 --> 00:49:22.532
explain what your

00:49:22.532 --> 00:49:23.102
product does And

00:49:23.102 --> 00:49:23.762
how it's used.

00:49:23.912 --> 00:49:28.652
So I just wrote a few paragraphs
about that, sent them the video and

00:49:29.102 --> 00:49:29.582
it's all fine.

00:49:30.349 --> 00:49:31.999
Mario: Oh, so you, you recorded a video

00:49:31.999 --> 00:49:33.859
to like explaining your product.

00:49:34.129 --> 00:49:34.459
Cool.

00:49:34.759 --> 00:49:35.089
Cool.

00:49:35.509 --> 00:49:35.899
Yeah.

00:49:35.929 --> 00:49:40.975
I considered Paddle a way back before I
decided to go with Outseta, but I still,

00:49:40.975 --> 00:49:44.305
I still don't know which way I want to go.

00:49:44.320 --> 00:49:48.300
I haven't really integrated
Outseta yet fully into

00:49:48.310 --> 00:49:49.030
my product.

00:49:49.150 --> 00:49:49.420
I'm

00:49:49.420 --> 00:49:51.340
only using a couple of their

00:49:52.010 --> 00:49:53.620
couple of their services,

00:49:53.620 --> 00:49:57.978
you know, cause they have they
cover billing payments and

00:49:57.978 --> 00:50:01.124
you know, all the others some
other stuff and I haven't

00:50:01.484 --> 00:50:03.634
fully integrated much really.

00:50:03.694 --> 00:50:10.835
So I don't know because I suspect I'll
have a similar issue if, you know, given

00:50:10.835 --> 00:50:14.945
the nature of the product, people can
be, you know, anywhere in the world.

00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:18.100
Connecting and using fusion cast.

00:50:18.100 --> 00:50:20.911
So I I don't know what I'm
going to do about that, cause

00:50:21.361 --> 00:50:23.431
that that's a, that's a problem.

00:50:23.919 --> 00:50:24.969
Alan: It's a concern, isn't it?

00:50:24.969 --> 00:50:27.009
I mean, I know this, I'm sure a lot

00:50:27.009 --> 00:50:31.918
of these early products don't handle
tax very well or at all right.

00:50:32.218 --> 00:50:33.318
It's kind of almost

00:50:33.318 --> 00:50:36.438
like brushed under the carpet
and I'm not going to do that

00:50:36.971 --> 00:50:37.151
Mario: yeah,

00:50:37.548 --> 00:50:38.898
Alan: out of all the
decisions I'm going to make.

00:50:38.898 --> 00:50:39.648
that's not something I'm

00:50:39.648 --> 00:50:40.038
going to do.

00:50:40.099 --> 00:50:41.251
Especially since I,

00:50:41.251 --> 00:50:42.211
say I'm, I'm

00:50:42.271 --> 00:50:45.521
located in somewhere that I'm
not, you know, I don't know.

00:50:45.521 --> 00:50:48.470
Well with regards to how these
things work, so I'm not going to get

00:50:48.470 --> 00:50:48.770
that wrong.

00:50:49.343 --> 00:50:50.373
Mario: yeah, yeah,

00:50:50.399 --> 00:50:51.807
Alan: So  one reason that

00:50:51.917 --> 00:50:53.701
so Outseta requires

00:50:54.121 --> 00:50:55.891
you have to use their authentication

00:50:55.891 --> 00:50:56.401
stuff, right?

00:50:56.431 --> 00:50:59.311
Oh, you have to link into
their CRM in order to build

00:50:59.311 --> 00:50:59.611
people.

00:50:59.611 --> 00:50:59.951
Correct.

00:50:59.973 --> 00:51:01.863
Mario: I don't think you have to use their

00:51:01.863 --> 00:51:02.823
authentication.

00:51:03.320 --> 00:51:03.710
Alan: Okay.

00:51:03.808 --> 00:51:08.678
Mario: Because I have my own
authentication and I can still from what I

00:51:08.678 --> 00:51:11.408
understand, I can still integrate billing

00:51:11.408 --> 00:51:11.798
And

00:51:11.828 --> 00:51:12.488
payments.

00:51:13.171 --> 00:51:13.351
Alan: Right,

00:51:13.416 --> 00:51:16.086
Mario: I still haven't done it like
I was saying, but I don't So I don't

00:51:16.086 --> 00:51:17.856
know exactly,

00:51:17.856 --> 00:51:19.949
but if I remember correctly,

00:51:19.949 --> 00:51:21.808
One of the co-founders did

00:51:21.808 --> 00:51:22.138
a

00:51:22.138 --> 00:51:22.588
demo

00:51:22.588 --> 00:51:23.788
with me way back.

00:51:23.788 --> 00:51:27.560
And I remember, I think I asked
that question, you know, if I

00:51:27.560 --> 00:51:28.970
have my own authentication,

00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:30.890
can I still use billing and payments?

00:51:31.160 --> 00:51:32.300
And he said, yes.

00:51:32.330 --> 00:51:38.264
So if I remember correctly, so but
again, I haven't gone full in with

00:51:38.264 --> 00:51:40.224
Outseta so I'm still thinking about it.

00:51:40.235 --> 00:51:44.165
The only thing that scared me
about Paddle is, is some posts

00:51:44.195 --> 00:51:48.365
that I read of some horror stories
of them dropping the product

00:51:48.365 --> 00:51:49.685
without notice and,

00:51:49.712 --> 00:51:49.982
Alan: Yeah.

00:51:50.012 --> 00:51:50.192
Yeah.

00:51:50.285 --> 00:51:50.645
Mario: and.

00:51:51.272 --> 00:51:52.142
Alan: I've read those two.

00:51:52.142 --> 00:51:53.832
And those were, yeah, my immediate like,

00:51:53.836 --> 00:51:54.336
Is this good?

00:51:54.396 --> 00:51:55.116
This, this sounds

00:51:55.116 --> 00:51:56.236
scary, but

00:51:56.251 --> 00:51:59.955
In all of those cases, they do seem to
be, there seems to be an after story

00:51:59.955 --> 00:52:00.255
as well.

00:52:00.255 --> 00:52:01.365
It's not like that was it.

00:52:01.425 --> 00:52:04.965
It's like they, they respond to
them after a few days and things

00:52:04.965 --> 00:52:05.685
get fixed.

00:52:05.756 --> 00:52:08.396
And they, they do seem pretty
quick at responding to even

00:52:08.396 --> 00:52:10.286
the onboarding, the onboarding,

00:52:10.286 --> 00:52:13.406
the application emails, they seem pretty
quick about responding to all those.

00:52:13.766 --> 00:52:14.996
So I'm hoping

00:52:15.026 --> 00:52:15.715
that there's no

00:52:15.715 --> 00:52:18.925
problems, but yeah, that was my, my,

00:52:18.925 --> 00:52:19.915
only,

00:52:19.959 --> 00:52:21.053
Hesitancy there

00:52:21.053 --> 00:52:25.493
was, this seems to be some horror
stories, but there seems to be

00:52:25.493 --> 00:52:27.953
horror stories, regarding every
single product on the internet.

00:52:27.953 --> 00:52:28.193
So

00:52:28.485 --> 00:52:28.895
Mario: Yeah,

00:52:29.483 --> 00:52:29.963
Alan: I'm like

00:52:30.803 --> 00:52:31.193
gotta

00:52:32.903 --> 00:52:34.043
take everything with at

00:52:34.043 --> 00:52:36.293
least a, an understanding that you're only

00:52:36.293 --> 00:52:37.013
seeing one side of it.

00:52:37.013 --> 00:52:37.253
Right.

00:52:37.585 --> 00:52:38.155
Mario: yeah.

00:52:38.215 --> 00:52:38.665
Yeah.

00:52:39.265 --> 00:52:42.265
So if you're using paddle
then does that mean you don't

00:52:42.265 --> 00:52:43.945
need to integrate with Stripe?

00:52:43.975 --> 00:52:44.665
Does it work?

00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:45.040
Had

00:52:45.040 --> 00:52:45.800
they have their own.

00:52:46.817 --> 00:52:47.147
Alan: Yes.

00:52:47.177 --> 00:52:47.687
Correct.

00:52:47.747 --> 00:52:49.187
So the other thing, as well as it

00:52:49.187 --> 00:52:50.867
handles, I mean, I

00:52:50.867 --> 00:52:51.557
guess like Stripe, it

00:52:51.557 --> 00:52:52.547
handles invoicing.

00:52:52.594 --> 00:52:54.589
The, you can have multiple price plans.

00:52:54.589 --> 00:52:57.229
It does the tax based
on where the buyer is.

00:52:57.256 --> 00:52:59.459
It just handles everything
for you like that.

00:52:59.489 --> 00:53:02.159
They, the only differences.

00:53:02.159 --> 00:53:02.399
Yeah.

00:53:02.429 --> 00:53:02.639
It's

00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:04.009
not your merchant accounts.

00:53:04.009 --> 00:53:06.599
So things come through on the
credit card with like Paddle and

00:53:06.599 --> 00:53:08.609
then your name of your company.

00:53:08.977 --> 00:53:09.547
Mario: Oh, I see.

00:53:10.199 --> 00:53:11.019
Alan: so there is a,

00:53:11.090 --> 00:53:12.110
I'm used to it cause I use

00:53:12.110 --> 00:53:12.980
a few services that

00:53:12.980 --> 00:53:13.400
use it.

00:53:13.400 --> 00:53:16.490
So it it's, I'm kind
of used to using it as

00:53:16.490 --> 00:53:17.690
a, an end user

00:53:17.900 --> 00:53:19.250
and it's, it's absolutely fine.

00:53:19.250 --> 00:53:19.350
Yeah.

00:53:19.350 --> 00:53:19.670
I mean,

00:53:19.670 --> 00:53:21.470
it's seems the API is pretty

00:53:21.470 --> 00:53:23.840
straightforward and no
big surprises there, so

00:53:24.470 --> 00:53:25.550
yeah, I think it should be okay.

00:53:26.117 --> 00:53:27.377
Mario: nice, Maybe I'll give it a

00:53:27.377 --> 00:53:27.857
try.

00:53:28.577 --> 00:53:29.117
I don't know.

00:53:30.275 --> 00:53:33.815
Alan: So it did that, their fees,
their fees are a little bit higher

00:53:33.815 --> 00:53:33.995
than

00:53:33.995 --> 00:53:35.595
if you were just going
for straight Stripe.

00:53:35.595 --> 00:53:37.896
Obviously because they're
offering more they're not just

00:53:37.896 --> 00:53:39.756
taking the payment, but as I say for

00:53:39.756 --> 00:53:39.996
me,

00:53:39.996 --> 00:53:41.256
it was just this peace of mind

00:53:41.286 --> 00:53:44.916
that I know that the right sales
taxes are going to get taken and paid

00:53:45.869 --> 00:53:46.199
Mario: Yeah.

00:53:46.776 --> 00:53:47.136
Alan: by me.

00:53:47.136 --> 00:53:49.086
That's just one thing I don't want to get

00:53:49.086 --> 00:53:49.836
on the wrong side of,

00:53:50.149 --> 00:53:50.509
Mario: Yeah.

00:53:51.409 --> 00:53:54.979
And I guess it also depends on
how long it takes for Stripe to

00:53:55.039 --> 00:53:57.379
catch up to that and offer that

00:53:57.379 --> 00:53:58.189
service, you know?

00:53:58.296 --> 00:53:59.616
Alan: I mean this w I mean,

00:53:59.736 --> 00:53:59.946
you

00:53:59.946 --> 00:54:02.916
can export from Paddle that doesn't
seem to be any limitations with

00:54:02.916 --> 00:54:04.176
you moving,

00:54:04.223 --> 00:54:04.325
You

00:54:04.325 --> 00:54:05.435
know, exporting your customers.

00:54:05.435 --> 00:54:06.005
Obviously, I think

00:54:06.005 --> 00:54:07.985
they'd probably have to
resubmit their payment

00:54:07.985 --> 00:54:09.297
information, I assume.

00:54:09.356 --> 00:54:10.526
But you're not,

00:54:10.826 --> 00:54:11.066
you know,

00:54:11.066 --> 00:54:12.467
you're not tied into it forever.

00:54:12.467 --> 00:54:14.959
You could just keep those as old users and

00:54:14.959 --> 00:54:18.932
onboard new users into Stripe or
something if you wanted to change later.

00:54:18.932 --> 00:54:19.825
So it's not like.

00:54:20.875 --> 00:54:22.645
Not an impossible thing to undo.

00:54:22.675 --> 00:54:23.935
But at this stage it just seemed

00:54:23.935 --> 00:54:26.755
to be the thing which suited my

00:54:26.755 --> 00:54:27.205
need the

00:54:27.205 --> 00:54:27.505
most,

00:54:27.728 --> 00:54:28.148
Mario: Yeah.

00:54:28.418 --> 00:54:28.838
Yeah.

00:54:29.618 --> 00:54:30.098
All right.

00:54:30.128 --> 00:54:30.578
Cool.

00:54:30.908 --> 00:54:32.198
Well, thanks for sharing that.

00:54:33.055 --> 00:54:33.325
Alan: let you

00:54:33.325 --> 00:54:33.415
know?

00:54:33.415 --> 00:54:35.575
how it goes when I onboard
it, when I've done three

00:54:35.575 --> 00:54:37.165
a year, the sandbox

00:54:37.165 --> 00:54:37.375
stuff.

00:54:37.718 --> 00:54:38.228
Mario: Yeah.

00:54:38.258 --> 00:54:39.308
you'll be the Guinea pig.

00:54:39.515 --> 00:54:39.755
Alan: Yeah,

00:54:42.008 --> 00:54:42.728
Mario: All right.

00:54:43.028 --> 00:54:44.048
Anything else

00:54:44.378 --> 00:54:45.038
you want to share?

00:54:45.585 --> 00:54:46.485
Alan: And that's me all

00:54:46.485 --> 00:54:46.755
done.

00:54:47.108 --> 00:54:47.708
Mario: All right.

00:54:47.978 --> 00:54:49.346
I think that's it for me too.

00:54:49.396 --> 00:54:50.296
Should we wrap it up?

00:54:50.704 --> 00:54:51.274
Alan: Let's wrap it up

00:54:51.646 --> 00:54:52.276
Mario: All right.

00:54:52.312 --> 00:54:53.152
Most for the show

00:54:54.152 --> 00:54:54.812
have notes.

00:54:55.069 --> 00:54:57.799
Alan: Were we supposed to like sell
a mattress or something as well?

00:54:58.082 --> 00:54:58.652
Mario: I know, right?

00:54:59.652 --> 00:55:01.703
we'll close it off with Justin Jackson's.

00:55:01.775 --> 00:55:04.805
This podcast is hosted, not toasted on

00:55:04.805 --> 00:55:06.725
Transistor.fm

00:55:07.958 --> 00:55:09.818
Alan: I love the cause I was playing with

00:55:09.910 --> 00:55:10.690
you know, you, you,

00:55:10.840 --> 00:55:13.330
submit it to everything, just going
through the interface and things.

00:55:13.360 --> 00:55:14.620
It's a really well thought out

00:55:14.620 --> 00:55:14.950
product.

00:55:14.950 --> 00:55:15.160
Right.

00:55:15.367 --> 00:55:16.087
Mario: It is.

00:55:16.090 --> 00:55:16.810
Alan: very cool.

00:55:17.047 --> 00:55:17.557
Mario: It is.

00:55:17.557 --> 00:55:17.793
it's.

00:55:17.834 --> 00:55:18.114
It's.

00:55:18.114 --> 00:55:18.804
I love it.

00:55:18.954 --> 00:55:19.334
Love it.

00:55:19.377 --> 00:55:20.757
Alan: can't imagine doing it

00:55:20.757 --> 00:55:21.417
any other way.

00:55:21.443 --> 00:55:22.147
Just having seen

00:55:22.147 --> 00:55:24.127
that it's like all the
analytics, they just

00:55:24.157 --> 00:55:24.667
submitting

00:55:24.667 --> 00:55:25.057
everything,

00:55:25.057 --> 00:55:26.677
just managing the whole processes

00:55:26.677 --> 00:55:27.157
like that.

00:55:27.277 --> 00:55:27.457
They've

00:55:27.457 --> 00:55:28.327
really done.

00:55:28.327 --> 00:55:28.567
Well.

00:55:28.657 --> 00:55:29.467
It's very cool.

00:55:29.677 --> 00:55:30.997
I'm really happy to see it

00:55:30.997 --> 00:55:31.507
succeeding

00:55:31.507 --> 00:55:31.867
as well.

00:55:32.050 --> 00:55:32.560
Mario: yeah,

00:55:32.590 --> 00:55:35.304
and it's a pretty large
product, because it.

00:55:35.304 --> 00:55:36.924
has so many different areas.

00:55:36.924 --> 00:55:40.704
You know, it's got analytics,
the hosting side, the embeddable

00:55:40.704 --> 00:55:41.364
player,

00:55:41.634 --> 00:55:46.634
the distribution, the websites, you
know, the custom websites for your, for

00:55:46.634 --> 00:55:49.424
your podcast, that they host themselves,

00:55:49.433 --> 00:55:50.078
All these different

00:55:50.078 --> 00:55:50.528
areas.

00:55:50.528 --> 00:55:51.818
It's, it's crazy.

00:55:51.818 --> 00:55:52.088
It's

00:55:52.295 --> 00:55:53.165
Alan: It's surprising.

00:55:53.165 --> 00:55:53.285
Yeah.

00:55:53.285 --> 00:55:54.545
When you start going through it yellow.

00:55:54.575 --> 00:55:54.875
Oh my God.

00:55:54.875 --> 00:55:58.055
This is like really comprehensive,
really thought of everything.

00:55:58.078 --> 00:55:58.498
Mario: Yeah.

00:55:58.528 --> 00:56:03.558
And for a two people team is it's
just really incredible that all

00:56:03.568 --> 00:56:04.858
they've been able to accomplish.

00:56:04.858 --> 00:56:05.968
So, congrats to them

00:56:05.968 --> 00:56:06.223
and,

00:56:06.241 --> 00:56:09.351
Props to them for achieving that.

00:56:09.361 --> 00:56:10.201
It's it's great.

00:56:10.321 --> 00:56:11.251
I love using it.

00:56:11.251 --> 00:56:12.111
I love the product.

00:56:12.288 --> 00:56:13.278
Alan: Yeah, absolutely.

00:56:13.551 --> 00:56:15.501
Mario: I recommend that every, every time

00:56:15.501 --> 00:56:17.571
I get an opportunity, someone

00:56:17.571 --> 00:56:19.461
asks about hosting a podcast.

00:56:19.701 --> 00:56:21.411
I always recommend transistor.

00:56:22.008 --> 00:56:22.488
Alan: absolutely

00:56:22.581 --> 00:56:26.004
Mario: So yeah, we didn't get
paid to say all this, by the way.

00:56:26.004 --> 00:56:26.184
We're

00:56:26.184 --> 00:56:26.484
just

00:56:26.514 --> 00:56:27.174
big fans,

00:56:28.281 --> 00:56:28.851
Alan: absolutely

00:56:29.064 --> 00:56:29.724
Mario: disclosure.

00:56:31.674 --> 00:56:32.214
All right.

00:56:32.964 --> 00:56:33.204
All right.

00:56:33.204 --> 00:56:33.484
Alan.

00:56:33.684 --> 00:56:34.614
I'll see you

00:56:34.764 --> 00:56:35.274
in two

00:56:35.274 --> 00:56:35.844
weeks

00:56:36.624 --> 00:56:37.824
and we'll, we'll,

00:56:37.824 --> 00:56:38.724
be in touch online.

00:56:39.161 --> 00:56:39.551
Alan: and upwards.

00:56:40.451 --> 00:56:41.051
Talk to you later.

00:56:41.304 --> 00:56:41.604
Mario: All right.

00:56:41.664 --> 00:56:42.054
Take care.

00:56:42.551 --> 00:56:42.971
Alan: Cheers, man.