1
00:00:02,190 --> 00:00:04,230
Jethro Jones: Welcome to
transformative principle where you

2
00:00:04,230 --> 00:00:07,920
learn how to be a leader and not
just a manager of a to-do list.

3
00:00:08,100 --> 00:00:09,480
I'm your host Jethro Jones.

4
00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,330
You can find me on
Twitter at Jethro Jones.

5
00:00:14,250 --> 00:00:17,490
I love doing the mastermind with
principals every single week.

6
00:00:17,910 --> 00:00:21,180
It is so rewarding and
invigorating to hear.

7
00:00:21,884 --> 00:00:24,974
People overcome their
challenges day in and day out.

8
00:00:25,544 --> 00:00:27,705
I want to share some of the
things that people have found most

9
00:00:27,705 --> 00:00:30,134
useful to them as they've been
participating in the mastermind.

10
00:00:30,615 --> 00:00:33,885
Here's a couple, I really
appreciated the reminder of the

11
00:00:33,885 --> 00:00:35,714
need for essential learnings.

12
00:00:36,254 --> 00:00:40,364
Even though I feel isolated and
alone, I recognize that I have

13
00:00:40,364 --> 00:00:43,905
a group here where I'm not alone
and we're all in this together.

14
00:00:44,864 --> 00:00:45,364
Another one.

15
00:00:46,335 --> 00:00:50,235
Figuring out hiring what's most useful
having conversations with people

16
00:00:50,235 --> 00:00:54,824
about topics that we still need to
address, even if the timing's not

17
00:00:54,824 --> 00:00:58,545
right, doing the mastermind is awesome.

18
00:00:58,574 --> 00:01:02,535
And you would love it if you were
a part of it as well, go to Jethro

19
00:01:02,535 --> 00:01:07,695
jones.com/mastermind, and let's
schedule a chat to talk about whether

20
00:01:07,695 --> 00:01:09,255
or not the mastermind's right for you.

21
00:01:09,585 --> 00:01:12,795
That's Jethro jones.com/mastermind.

22
00:01:14,115 --> 00:01:15,255
This week's episode.

23
00:01:16,050 --> 00:01:21,030
As brought to you by junk cat educational,
you can get a discount on the awesome

24
00:01:21,030 --> 00:01:25,650
books that they have available by
going to us dot John cat, bookshop.com

25
00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,950
and using the code transformative 30.

26
00:01:29,370 --> 00:01:32,220
That'll save you 30% on any order.

27
00:01:32,460 --> 00:01:35,250
That's us dot John cat, bookshop.com.

28
00:01:36,150 --> 00:01:38,880
And the code is transformative 30.

29
00:01:39,900 --> 00:01:43,560
So we've talked about the first two
mistakes that instructional leaders make.

30
00:01:43,860 --> 00:01:46,290
The first one was focusing
too much on student outcomes.

31
00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:48,480
And the second one was
staying out of teachers with.

32
00:01:49,215 --> 00:01:50,775
Staying out teachers' way, man.

33
00:01:50,775 --> 00:01:51,465
I'm just stumbling.

34
00:01:51,495 --> 00:01:51,915
Pardon me?

35
00:01:52,305 --> 00:01:56,595
So what is the third mistake
that instructional leaders often

36
00:01:56,595 --> 00:01:56,955
Amber Dembowski: make?

37
00:01:57,315 --> 00:02:00,105
Yeah, this one is going to be short and
sweet and I think most instructional

38
00:02:00,105 --> 00:02:01,395
leaders would agree with me.

39
00:02:01,695 --> 00:02:04,575
It's the mistake is just staying
busy because staying busy.

40
00:02:04,575 --> 00:02:07,455
Isn't the same as being
productive in your day.

41
00:02:07,875 --> 00:02:12,405
And one of my favorite visuals, when
coming to prioritizing our time as.

42
00:02:13,505 --> 00:02:16,804
Management matrix, you know,
there's yes, isn't that awesome.

43
00:02:16,804 --> 00:02:21,635
So there's four quadrants, just
real quickly quadrant one are the

44
00:02:21,635 --> 00:02:23,674
things that are important and urgent.

45
00:02:23,945 --> 00:02:28,114
So those might be deadlines
that are coming up, or maybe

46
00:02:28,114 --> 00:02:29,674
a crisis that was unexpected.

47
00:02:30,270 --> 00:02:35,340
Quadrant two is really where the rubber
hits the road, but it's often overlooked.

48
00:02:35,340 --> 00:02:38,280
So that's, what's
important, but not urgent.

49
00:02:38,580 --> 00:02:42,540
And I'll come back to that in
just a second, but quadrant three

50
00:02:42,750 --> 00:02:46,740
are the not important, but urgent
things that come up in the day.

51
00:02:46,740 --> 00:02:50,220
So that could be an angry
parents wanting to talk to you.

52
00:02:50,610 --> 00:02:55,710
And not just that, it's not important,
but it's not impacting teaching alarming.

53
00:02:55,740 --> 00:02:56,040
Let's say.

54
00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,870
And then quadrant four are the
not important and not urgent.

55
00:03:01,110 --> 00:03:05,250
And so that an example of that might be,
you know, taking to answering emails,

56
00:03:05,370 --> 00:03:10,170
let's say, so what we really want to,
where we want us to focus our time is

57
00:03:10,170 --> 00:03:14,670
quadrant two and we need to find ways to.

58
00:03:15,300 --> 00:03:22,590
And that quadrants, but what makes it hard
is quadrant two is not coming and knocking

59
00:03:22,590 --> 00:03:28,140
at our door or her calling our phone or
popping into our email because quadrant

60
00:03:28,140 --> 00:03:31,620
two is all about the teaching and learning
that's happening every single day.

61
00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:36,510
Like it's in the way are six teachers
with no subs to fill the job.

62
00:03:37,045 --> 00:03:40,885
Like I said, the angry parents or
the student behaviors, those are

63
00:03:40,885 --> 00:03:45,235
things that we can't ignore and
they come at us loud and clear.

64
00:03:45,595 --> 00:03:50,605
So we just have to be really intentional
with our time and really do a self audit

65
00:03:50,815 --> 00:03:53,875
of as our calendar and our day being.

66
00:03:55,095 --> 00:03:58,755
Low yield tasks or high yield tasks.

67
00:03:59,505 --> 00:04:02,595
Um, high yields to me are
things that are positively

68
00:04:02,595 --> 00:04:04,065
impacting teaching and learning.

69
00:04:04,365 --> 00:04:08,145
And that's what we need to continue
to do, continue to audit our time.

70
00:04:08,985 --> 00:04:10,125
Jethro Jones: Yeah, absolutely.

71
00:04:10,155 --> 00:04:13,275
And you know, one of the things
that I've worked with principals.

72
00:04:13,995 --> 00:04:18,765
Multiple times is this idea of
creating, uh, an ideal week and saying,

73
00:04:18,765 --> 00:04:20,594
here's how I want to spend my time.

74
00:04:20,925 --> 00:04:24,765
And then making sure that those
other things get scheduled in so

75
00:04:24,765 --> 00:04:27,825
that you, you know, like, yes,
there's going to be emergencies.

76
00:04:27,825 --> 00:04:28,005
Yes.

77
00:04:28,005 --> 00:04:30,284
There's going to be things that are
urgent that you need to deal with,

78
00:04:30,675 --> 00:04:32,025
but not everything is that way.

79
00:04:32,025 --> 00:04:33,705
And having a time dedicated.

80
00:04:34,244 --> 00:04:38,895
To doing those things that are not urgent
during the week is really important.

81
00:04:39,135 --> 00:04:42,705
So you can get that@jasperjones.com
slash ideal week.

82
00:04:42,734 --> 00:04:46,575
And I share that, and I believe that you
have something along those lines as well.

83
00:04:46,604 --> 00:04:49,395
Don't you do a Monday mindset
or something like that?

84
00:04:50,164 --> 00:04:50,674
Amber Dembowski: Yes.

85
00:04:50,674 --> 00:04:52,775
I have a Monday mindset podcast.

86
00:04:52,895 --> 00:04:57,185
And it's more about it does talk about
managing your time, but it is more about

87
00:04:57,185 --> 00:05:04,114
being mindful in your day that we want
to be performing at a peak capacity, then

88
00:05:04,174 --> 00:05:06,664
truly we need to have a healthy mind.

89
00:05:07,174 --> 00:05:09,635
And so the Monday mindset is shared out.

90
00:05:10,175 --> 00:05:17,435
Uh, every Monday for those who subscribe,
uh, through apple or through iHeartRadio.

91
00:05:17,835 --> 00:05:25,055
However, if, if people head over to my
website at www that Amber then bow ski,

92
00:05:25,085 --> 00:05:27,875
that com they can also subscribe there.

93
00:05:28,500 --> 00:05:34,440
When they subscribe through my website,
they get my podcast Sunday and they

94
00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:39,270
also get a planner that goes along
with it so that they can personalize.

95
00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:42,750
Um, what was talked about
in the, in the mindset.

96
00:05:43,740 --> 00:05:44,460
Jethro Jones: Yeah, very good.

97
00:05:44,460 --> 00:05:45,570
So make sure you check that out.

98
00:05:45,570 --> 00:05:48,719
And there's a link to that also in
the show notes for this episode, if

99
00:05:48,719 --> 00:05:52,409
you just tap on the, the cover art,
which is a beautiful picture that

100
00:05:52,409 --> 00:05:56,370
my wife designed, or if you swipe
left or right, you should be able to

101
00:05:56,370 --> 00:05:58,860
get to that link and check that out.

102
00:05:59,250 --> 00:06:03,780
Now, I want to talk about this idea
of budgeting your time appropriately,

103
00:06:03,780 --> 00:06:06,060
because it's, it's so important.

104
00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,640
And so one of the things that I did is I.

105
00:06:09,630 --> 00:06:14,609
Tuesday afternoons from after lunch until
the end of the day, we're set aside for

106
00:06:14,609 --> 00:06:18,030
doing district stuff, whatever that was.

107
00:06:18,060 --> 00:06:22,320
And so if there was, you know, a
project that the district needed,

108
00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,590
or there was something that I'd
follow up on or training for

109
00:06:25,590 --> 00:06:26,990
state testing or whatever that.

110
00:06:27,855 --> 00:06:29,685
That would fall into that slot.

111
00:06:29,715 --> 00:06:34,275
And so I made sure that that slot
always was saved for that purpose.

112
00:06:34,275 --> 00:06:38,495
And if I didn't have any district
stuff to do, it was really easy to, to

113
00:06:38,495 --> 00:06:41,775
just not do anything then and do the
other things that needed to be done.

114
00:06:42,315 --> 00:06:44,715
But if I ever had something,
I would always say, I'm just

115
00:06:44,715 --> 00:06:45,885
going to set that aside until.

116
00:06:46,650 --> 00:06:49,680
That day at that time,
and then I can do it.

117
00:06:49,710 --> 00:06:53,940
What other tips do you have for managing
your time so that you're not being pulled

118
00:06:53,940 --> 00:06:55,410
about in every different direction?

119
00:06:56,130 --> 00:07:00,120
Amber Dembowski: Well, I like to schedule
the things that are important first.

120
00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:04,020
And so the things to me that are
important are kind of squeezing myself

121
00:07:04,020 --> 00:07:08,610
into the teacher's day, not in an
awkward or take over kind of way,

122
00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,910
but more in a curious and supportive.

123
00:07:13,140 --> 00:07:16,409
So that looks like, you know,
getting into the classroom during

124
00:07:16,409 --> 00:07:20,039
instruction so that I can really
see what's important and what's not.

125
00:07:20,429 --> 00:07:26,099
So I like to schedule those into my
calendar every Sunday for the following

126
00:07:26,099 --> 00:07:30,780
week and truly I consider it a success.

127
00:07:30,780 --> 00:07:34,140
And this is what the people
that I consult and work with.

128
00:07:34,830 --> 00:07:39,690
Um, if you can get into at least
nine classrooms, 10 minutes.

129
00:07:40,300 --> 00:07:43,930
And each classroom a week,
uh, that's truly a success.

130
00:07:44,590 --> 00:07:49,720
And within that time, you can certainly
pull out pieces of feedback that

131
00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,320
you can provide the teachers during
that time, which is actually kind of

132
00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:58,840
transitions well into my next mistake
that I shared through the AFCD article.

133
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:00,660
Um, it talks a lot about

134
00:08:00,660 --> 00:08:01,080
Jethro Jones: feedback.

135
00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:02,970
Amber Dembowski: Yeah.

136
00:08:02,970 --> 00:08:07,860
So mistake four is always seeking
out ways to critique, which

137
00:08:07,860 --> 00:08:10,020
really falls back on our feedback.

138
00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:15,120
And so when we provide teachers
feedback, we need to recognize what

139
00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:16,710
is the purpose of that feedback?

140
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,010
Are we providing the
feedback to help, to fix.

141
00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:27,810
And just on my recent Monday mindset
podcast, I shared about this exact topic.

142
00:08:28,380 --> 00:08:32,909
Helping means that we want to make
something easier for others or assist

143
00:08:32,909 --> 00:08:38,070
them, but helping isn't perceived
as a relationship between equals.

144
00:08:38,730 --> 00:08:43,500
So helping implies that the teacher
doesn't know as much as you or

145
00:08:43,500 --> 00:08:45,260
me and that they're weaker or.

146
00:08:46,214 --> 00:08:49,964
Now, and if we, if we approach things
from the perspective of fixing things,

147
00:08:50,385 --> 00:08:54,194
then that means you're approaching
the teacher as they're broken.

148
00:08:54,495 --> 00:08:57,854
And even though this type of
feedback as well, intentioned,

149
00:08:57,885 --> 00:09:03,615
the teachers may begin to question
you and may begin to believe that.

150
00:09:04,285 --> 00:09:06,145
You know, we don't think
they're doing a good job.

151
00:09:06,595 --> 00:09:09,145
So there is a time and a place
for this type of feedback.

152
00:09:09,655 --> 00:09:14,275
I would say, you know, a conversation
following evaluations or a formal

153
00:09:14,275 --> 00:09:19,135
observation, or maybe during a
coaching cycle type conversation.

154
00:09:19,645 --> 00:09:23,155
But if you're providing this
kind of feedback during weekly

155
00:09:23,155 --> 00:09:24,805
walkthroughs, like the attendance.

156
00:09:25,425 --> 00:09:27,075
Visits that I was just talking about.

157
00:09:27,525 --> 00:09:29,865
It can be more damaging than helpful.

158
00:09:30,315 --> 00:09:34,455
And I just want to give you an example,
one classic way that instructional

159
00:09:34,455 --> 00:09:40,575
leaders are unintentionally approaching
teaching from a help or fix mentality

160
00:09:40,995 --> 00:09:43,395
as through their glow and grow feedback.

161
00:09:43,395 --> 00:09:44,265
Have you heard of that?

162
00:09:44,265 --> 00:09:45,345
The glow and grow?

163
00:09:47,475 --> 00:09:48,045
Yes.

164
00:09:48,075 --> 00:09:48,345
So.

165
00:09:49,555 --> 00:09:53,545
Pointing out something positive that
they observed and then they'll end

166
00:09:53,545 --> 00:09:57,595
with something for the teacher to
consider, or maybe an area to grow.

167
00:09:58,285 --> 00:10:01,915
And the instructional coach
or administrator thinks that

168
00:10:01,915 --> 00:10:04,915
they're doing their job by
providing this type of feedback.

169
00:10:04,915 --> 00:10:09,535
But in this situation, what
they don't realize is they're

170
00:10:09,535 --> 00:10:11,245
approaching it from a stance of any.

171
00:10:12,265 --> 00:10:16,045
So, you know, something like,
I know more than you or from a

172
00:10:16,045 --> 00:10:19,645
stance of brokenness, like your
instruction isn't strong enough yet.

173
00:10:20,594 --> 00:10:25,665
So you'll get a lot more bang for
your buck by approaching feedback,

174
00:10:25,814 --> 00:10:27,735
through the lens of serving.

175
00:10:28,334 --> 00:10:34,155
And when your objective is to help or
fix your focusing on your expertise or

176
00:10:34,155 --> 00:10:38,324
assessing and responding to needs and
women you serve, you're approaching

177
00:10:38,324 --> 00:10:41,625
it completely different because you
see the wholeness of the teacher

178
00:10:41,685 --> 00:10:45,074
and you trust that they're working
hard, that they're doing their best,

179
00:10:45,954 --> 00:10:48,735
and that they have a lot of goodness
and talent to offer the classroom.

180
00:10:49,425 --> 00:10:54,795
So when we serve others, we strengthen
others and serving requires us

181
00:10:54,795 --> 00:10:59,115
to know that our humanity is
more powerful than our expertise.

182
00:10:59,415 --> 00:11:03,645
So in the, in the feedback example,
serving looks like leaving a note

183
00:11:03,645 --> 00:11:06,105
of feedback, pointing out the
great teaching and learning that's

184
00:11:06,105 --> 00:11:07,785
happening, and then stopping there.

185
00:11:08,295 --> 00:11:11,865
There's no need to point out an area
of growth or something considered

186
00:11:11,925 --> 00:11:13,035
to consider in that moment.

187
00:11:14,010 --> 00:11:17,070
It's just a different, that challenge
is some people's thinking for sure.

188
00:11:18,060 --> 00:11:19,230
Jethro Jones: Yeah, it sure does.

189
00:11:20,130 --> 00:11:23,130
John cat educational supports
high-quality teaching and learning

190
00:11:23,130 --> 00:11:27,540
by providing publications that are
research-based practical and focused

191
00:11:27,540 --> 00:11:31,440
on the key topics, proven essential
in today's and tomorrow's schools.

192
00:11:31,950 --> 00:11:36,690
Visit us dot John cat, bookshop.com
to see the latest publications whose

193
00:11:36,690 --> 00:11:41,070
exciting ideas include overcoming
the extrovert ideal in our school.

194
00:11:41,910 --> 00:11:46,260
Creating bottom-up transformation that
promotes buy-in from all educators and

195
00:11:46,260 --> 00:11:49,470
improving formal and informal continuous
learning opportunities for teachers.

196
00:11:50,189 --> 00:11:53,520
These books used by educators of
all roles across north America and

197
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,630
worldwide to amplify fresh, engaging
voices with practical strategies

198
00:11:57,630 --> 00:12:01,380
to create transformative change,
learn more in our show notes.

199
00:12:02,579 --> 00:12:07,110
Uh, my approach to evaluation has,
and, and observations and all that

200
00:12:07,110 --> 00:12:10,650
has, and giving feedback has really
changed over the past few years.

201
00:12:11,069 --> 00:12:14,250
As I've seen that every time I try.

202
00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:15,450
Too.

203
00:12:15,450 --> 00:12:19,920
And I haven't put it in the terms
you're using to help or fix it has

204
00:12:20,250 --> 00:12:22,980
ended up souring the relationship.

205
00:12:23,460 --> 00:12:27,570
And every time I have focused on serving,
it has improved the relationship.

206
00:12:27,570 --> 00:12:31,680
And I'm just cycling back through
my teachers right now, and staff

207
00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:32,640
members that I've worked with.

208
00:12:32,670 --> 00:12:38,640
And what I'm seeing is all the
people who grew under my leadership.

209
00:12:39,450 --> 00:12:43,890
I was focused on serving them and all
the people who either got worse or

210
00:12:43,890 --> 00:12:49,170
we had bad relationships with it was
because I was helping or fixing them.

211
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,500
And, and the way that you
phrase that is really good.

212
00:12:52,530 --> 00:12:58,530
My approach now to evaluation
observations is, is simply to,

213
00:12:58,710 --> 00:13:01,020
to ask questions that are either.

214
00:13:01,845 --> 00:13:03,795
How can I help you do better?

215
00:13:03,795 --> 00:13:04,725
Like, what do you need?

216
00:13:04,755 --> 00:13:06,135
What support do you need?

217
00:13:06,135 --> 00:13:07,275
What resources do you need?

218
00:13:07,695 --> 00:13:09,375
What things can I take off your plate?

219
00:13:09,885 --> 00:13:13,065
Or what do you think needs to improve?

220
00:13:13,395 --> 00:13:18,165
I now recognize, and I'm embarrassed to
admit this to all my former teachers.

221
00:13:18,165 --> 00:13:18,705
I apologize.

222
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:23,880
I now recognize that I do not have all
the answers and that's awful for me

223
00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:28,020
to admit, because I feel like I should
have had all the answers my whole life.

224
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:34,530
And I just don't, you know, and, and so
unfortunately, as a principal, I thought

225
00:13:34,530 --> 00:13:38,430
that I needed to, or I thought that I
was supposed to, and really what I need

226
00:13:38,430 --> 00:13:43,830
to be doing is, is serving them because
when you serve them, they grow way more.

227
00:13:44,430 --> 00:13:45,840
Then you can imagine.

228
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:50,070
And so, so one of the things that
I'm trying to figure out is how to

229
00:13:50,460 --> 00:13:55,560
create a totally service oriented
evaluation that takes out the

230
00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:57,390
score that you assign takes out.

231
00:13:57,390 --> 00:14:02,190
The rating of teachers takes out all that
other stuff so that you can just focus

232
00:14:02,190 --> 00:14:06,360
on serving that person and helping them
become the best that they possibly can.

233
00:14:08,445 --> 00:14:10,605
Amber Dembowski: Well, and,
you know, there has been more

234
00:14:10,605 --> 00:14:11,955
and more research on this.

235
00:14:12,735 --> 00:14:18,825
Gallup found that when employees are
given primarily positive feedback.

236
00:14:18,825 --> 00:14:22,785
So what we're talking about with the
serving them, that when they're given

237
00:14:22,785 --> 00:14:27,755
primarily positive feedback, but 98%
of them will be highly engaged in.

238
00:14:28,990 --> 00:14:32,230
And when we provide that glow
and grow type feedback, but you

239
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:33,640
know, it's somewhat critical.

240
00:14:34,060 --> 00:14:37,570
Only 66% of them will be
engaged in their work when they

241
00:14:37,570 --> 00:14:38,740
receive that type of feedback.

242
00:14:39,430 --> 00:14:43,600
I just recently read a book titled,
um, let's see, nine lies about

243
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,670
work written by Marcus Buckingham.

244
00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:49,350
And he has done a lot of
research in this area as well.

245
00:14:49,860 --> 00:14:53,400
And his research is more about employees.

246
00:14:53,580 --> 00:14:56,130
Aren't looking for feedback,
they're looking for attention.

247
00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,540
And so when we're noticing the good
things that they're doing every

248
00:15:00,540 --> 00:15:04,980
single day, they're going to become
intrinsically motivated to do better

249
00:15:05,130 --> 00:15:07,560
rather than being told they need to do

250
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:08,040
Jethro Jones: better.

251
00:15:09,155 --> 00:15:11,225
That is, I totally believe that.

252
00:15:11,255 --> 00:15:16,595
And so like, when you think about how
this, how this actually applies to, to

253
00:15:16,655 --> 00:15:22,265
what we're doing, I had a teacher who,
when we implemented a Marzano evaluation

254
00:15:22,265 --> 00:15:28,205
framework, she started getting ranked
lowly because she wasn't doing the things

255
00:15:28,205 --> 00:15:33,225
that Marzano said were good, but she'd
been teaching for like, 20 years and had

256
00:15:33,225 --> 00:15:39,075
been taking 10 years in the middle to be
a instructional coach in the district,

257
00:15:39,465 --> 00:15:41,205
and then came back to the classroom.

258
00:15:41,265 --> 00:15:45,705
And by all accounts that she was
measuring, she was a great teacher.

259
00:15:45,705 --> 00:15:50,895
And then I came in and started ranking
her low because honestly she wasn't doing,

260
00:15:51,255 --> 00:15:55,125
she may have been a great teacher 15 years
ago, but she wasn't doing the things that.

261
00:15:56,165 --> 00:15:57,965
Our good teaching in our district.

262
00:15:58,385 --> 00:16:05,825
And, and that, that situation turned
her into my mortal enemy and she was

263
00:16:05,825 --> 00:16:10,685
like, she would do anything she could
to undermine and take me out of the new.

264
00:16:11,385 --> 00:16:15,555
For good reason, because I was treating
her like a, not like a child, but

265
00:16:15,555 --> 00:16:18,135
like a dog, you know, it was awful.

266
00:16:18,495 --> 00:16:22,605
And I look back now and I'm like,
what in the world was I thinking,

267
00:16:22,935 --> 00:16:28,305
like, if I would have had a serve
service minded approach to that, then

268
00:16:28,425 --> 00:16:30,135
I would have been much better off.

269
00:16:30,195 --> 00:16:35,025
And unfortunately the, the evaluation
systems that we use, they do not

270
00:16:35,025 --> 00:16:36,555
teach you to be service minded.

271
00:16:36,555 --> 00:16:40,115
They teach you to be critical to find
something wrong that the person has.

272
00:16:40,850 --> 00:16:44,540
And then to make sure that they know
about it and to never let them forget it.

273
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:49,665
And so this teacher in a final act of
defiance, At the end of her year, when

274
00:16:49,665 --> 00:16:56,235
she was retiring, she signed set a staff
email at the end and signed it with her

275
00:16:56,235 --> 00:17:02,805
name and then her score from, uh, the
evaluations that I had given her and

276
00:17:02,954 --> 00:17:08,390
just like totally just drove that point
home and said, You're awful Jethro.

277
00:17:09,740 --> 00:17:10,130
Sure.

278
00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:13,160
Amber Dembowski: Yes.

279
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:14,000
Live and learn.

280
00:17:14,270 --> 00:17:17,750
And we make so many mistakes along the
way, but as long as we're reflective

281
00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:22,490
about them and make adjustments for the
future, that's, that's truly the point.

282
00:17:22,490 --> 00:17:27,590
But your, your story, there is such
a great example of, of my mission

283
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:29,000
because I've fallen into this.

284
00:17:29,929 --> 00:17:30,770
Same traps.

285
00:17:30,770 --> 00:17:35,570
It's the, it's the policies and
the expectations and all of that.

286
00:17:35,570 --> 00:17:38,870
That's put out there and the
pressure that really takes the

287
00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:41,270
humanity away from education.

288
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:43,129
And I'm just trying to bring it back.

289
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,639
I think it's so important to
be bringing back that humanity.

290
00:17:47,405 --> 00:17:48,575
Jethro Jones: Yeah, I think so.

291
00:17:48,995 --> 00:17:51,935
So, uh, Amber, this has been
a wonderful conversation.

292
00:17:51,935 --> 00:17:53,555
I have loved talking with you.

293
00:17:53,735 --> 00:17:57,935
My final question is what is one thing
that a principal can do this week to

294
00:17:57,935 --> 00:17:59,945
be a transformative principal like you?

295
00:18:00,545 --> 00:18:04,865
Amber Dembowski: Oh, the one thing
that you can do this week is to

296
00:18:05,195 --> 00:18:09,665
take time, to recognize each of the
teachers for the talents that they're

297
00:18:09,665 --> 00:18:14,135
bringing to their classroom and
really bring that to the forefront

298
00:18:14,285 --> 00:18:16,025
of the teacher so that they know.

299
00:18:16,765 --> 00:18:22,255
You see the greatness in them, because
once they know that you see it, they're

300
00:18:22,255 --> 00:18:23,755
going to want to show you more of

301
00:18:23,755 --> 00:18:23,935
Jethro Jones: it.

302
00:18:24,595 --> 00:18:24,835
Yeah.

303
00:18:25,375 --> 00:18:25,675
Hmm.

304
00:18:26,665 --> 00:18:27,415
That is good.

305
00:18:27,655 --> 00:18:33,355
I do want to remind everybody to go to
Amber demboski.com and check out her site

306
00:18:33,355 --> 00:18:37,405
and her podcast and any other connections
you want to make before we sign it.

307
00:18:38,285 --> 00:18:39,245
Amber Dembowski: No, I think that's great.

308
00:18:39,245 --> 00:18:40,145
I've enjoyed my

309
00:18:40,775 --> 00:18:41,195
Jethro Jones: death row.

310
00:18:41,285 --> 00:18:41,675
Okay.

311
00:18:41,675 --> 00:18:44,255
Well, thank you so much for being
part of the transformative principle

312
00:18:44,705 --> 00:18:45,905
and thank you for listening.

313
00:18:48,545 --> 00:18:51,125
Thank you to our valued
partner, John KA educational.

314
00:18:51,365 --> 00:18:53,585
If you are a leader, looking
to make transformative change.

315
00:18:54,460 --> 00:18:57,760
By providing yourself and your teachers
with professional development, that is

316
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:02,050
research-based in rigorous yet easy to
digest and full of practical strategies.

317
00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:04,960
Check out the latest
publications from John cat.

318
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:09,850
Visit us dot John cat bookshop.com
to find information or learn

319
00:19:09,850 --> 00:19:10,960
more on our show notes.