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You're listening to the Bible Guys,
a podcast where a couple of friends talk

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about the Bible in fun in practical
ways. Good morning, Chris. I

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have a big one for you today. Oh big one? Yep, let

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me find it here because I out
Yeah, you you are going to challenge

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me, yes, at the things
you're good at. Two truths in a

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lie? So does that mean a
third of the things you say aren't true?

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That's why are you? Why are
you adding to this? That's I

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don't know. It just says.
It says that you're going to share two

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truths in a lie about experiences this
happened to you on stage? Why does

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that mean that I'm good at something
like lying? I don't know. If

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she gave it to you, she
didn't give it to me, That's what

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That's what I was wondering. It
goes back and forth, Jeff, listen

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to your own podcast, buddy.
Okay, okay, So this specifically says

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experiences that happened to me on stage
on stage? Jeff, I figure out

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which one is a lie? So
how many times have you been on stage?

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Do you think, Oh my goodness, you being serious? Yeah?

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I don't know. Thirty one but
more than thirty years, forty years of

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being on stage. But you're talking
about like every single events, like you

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know, there's only four Sundays in
a month, but then you're talking about

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events and weekends and you the events, and I mean, you know there's

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been at least two thousand and eighty
weekends okay of us being serving the Lord.

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That's only thirty one years. No, that's forty that's forty years.

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Okay. So yeah, i'd probably
say three thousand. Maybe you think something

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me too. I think so not
three thousand. I was trying to think

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that the other day. I bet
it's three or four thousand times a bit

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on stage. Yeah, yeah,
that's pretty well to think about that.

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Wow. Yeah. Well okay,
so out of all those, give me

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two things. That is why I
asked that, give me give me two

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truths and a lie of you being
on stage. Okay, here's the first

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one. The first one is I
did a message on Sunday morning in a

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Baptist church, and for the first
ten or fifteen minutes of the whole message,

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I had Nicodemus and the sycamore tree
and instead of and instead of Zachiis

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And then apparently when I got to
the scripture, I just picked right up

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with the name Zachias, never realizing
I had said Nicodemus over twenty times,

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and didn't believe the person who told
me afterwards until we used to record them

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on cassette. I went back and
listen to myself and I counted and it

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was over twenty twenty two times.
I said the word Nicodemus before I get

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and never even realize it. That's
what corrected you. That's the first one.

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You have no friends in that room. That could be correct that could

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be a truth alive. Here's the
second one. I spoke at a non

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denominational church that I worked at for
about three and a half years, and

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I had a special effect with smoke
machines like fog machines, and it set

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off the fire alarm during the message
as I was supposed to be creating a

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very dramatic moment with music, so
music and light and smoke at the same

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time, and it was supposed to
be representing the Holy of Holies. Oh

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ok, And then somehow the alarm
goes off, and the alarm wasn't just

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like a beep, beep beep,
it was have you ever been a part

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of an alarm where you feel like
your ears are bleeding. Right, It's

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like you can't even like, you
know, like stand it. That alarm

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went off and nobody left because they
all knew why it wasn't a real fire.

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They knew it was just because of
the smoke, the haze or whatever.

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And it went off for over a
solid like minute and a half,

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two minutes, I can't remember,
but it was just excruciating. Util somebody

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was ever shad off. That happened
in a service on a Sunday morning with

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about fifteen hundred people in the room. Here's the third one. The third

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one is I was speaking at a
youth of in Colorado, Denver, Colorado,

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and I've got really skinny legs,
and so I was wearing shorts.

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Uh no, no, I was
wearing pants. I was wearing pants.

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And my buddy come up to me
and said, hey, it's in the

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summer. Why are you wearing pants? You should wear shorts. And I

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said, well, to be honest
with you, I said, I just

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always wear pants when I speak,
and he goes, yeah, but it's

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a million degrees where everybody was sitting
below me, sitting on the on the

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floor Chris Cross Apple Sauce, and
I was on a stool on an elevated

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platform, and he said, just
change in shorts, dude, But I've

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for got these really skinny, like
you know legs. They're superheriom, Italian,

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all those kinds of things. So
I'm like, fine, whatever,

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So I go change into some cargo
shorts. I come back down, I

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do a sound check on the stage, and while I'm doing the soundcheck,

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my buddy who flew me to Denver
comes walking down and comes up to me

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and goes, um, yeah,
put the pants back on before the service

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starts. That's what he said.
Oh no, okay. So those are

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three stage experiences, which was experiences. I don't know. They're all good

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stories. They're all good stories.
So I'm going to say the first one

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is a truth. That is the
lie. That was the lie. Yeah,

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because I know what you're thinking.
You're thinking, how can Hayes set

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off a fire alarm? No?
No, no. The second one was

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the Hayes thank you no no,
no, no no no no. That

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you told me Nicodemus thing. Nicodemus. That was the lie. That was

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the lie. I thought that Nicodemus
was true. No, really, no,

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no, I thought that was true. Well, the reason why it

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sounded true is because that was a
pastor's story that he told me that I

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thought was hilarious. Oh okay,
it happened to him because I was gonna

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say, I've heard the story.
I just didn't know. I thought it

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was you. Yeah, okay,
so uh no. When I was actually

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speaking, uh in community Bible church, I had created the baptistry. You

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know, there's like a little hole
in the wall. I had put a

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curtain, like the veil was torn
to it was this big long baptistry thing.

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And I had created these burgundy drapes. And then at the very end,

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when when God flooded out, which
by the way, ironically we just

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talked about right, right, that's
right, when God flooded out, I

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had actually had them had a ripping
sound. And back then this is like

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nineties, which like this was like
cutting it stuff right, And then and

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then the curtain opened, and then
I had placed lights and it was supposed

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to be so foggy that it was
supposed to look like the light had sort

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of like flooded out, right,
So we dimmed the auditorium. Everything was

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dark, and all of a sudden, the rumbling sound happened, the ripping

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sound happened, and then all of
a sudden, the curtains opened, and

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this fog had happened. And I
don't know what had what took place.

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I have no idea as to this
day. But I'm talking like mag for

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like over like almost like two minutes
right and by the way, off a

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fog alarm or a fire alarm.
One time with fog and the pastor who

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was really lucked in to let me
even speak, that was my first time.

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No, it might have been a
second time speaking on stage. He

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was out of town and had to
come back and hear about it. Great,

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Yeah, it was awful. That's
terrible. Well, good man,

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I blew it. I've chose the
wrong one right from the very good go

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good job, Chris. So you're
just a better liar than me. Well,

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I think maybe I didn't realize I
had mentioned the Nicodemus story before to

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you. But it worked out perfect
because it was so funny to me.

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I probably tell people that story.
It's funny. Okay, so we are

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and by the way, we're going
to do the we're going to talk about

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the story of Temple Vale tearing in
a few weeks. Yeah, a few

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weeks. By the way, no
comment on the legs things. That's funny,

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isn't it. It's great, not
good, go go, this isn't

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working. It's so funny. Are
judgmental, aren't they? They are?

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He saved you from just just horrible
ridicule? Yeah, yeah, okay,

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Well hey, John, Chapter seventeen, verse twenty. Jesus is going to

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pray for for you today and for
me and for everybody, all of our

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listeners. This is where he's at. In John, chapter seventeen, verse

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twenty, it says, I am
praying not only for these disciples, but

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also for all who will ever believe
in me through their message. That's you

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and me. I pray that they
will all be one, just as you

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and I are one, as you
are in me, Father, and I

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am in you, And may they
be in us, so that the world

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will believe you sent me. I've
given them the glory you gave me,

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so they may be one as we
are one. I am in them and

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you are in me. May they
experience such perfect unity that the world will

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know that you sent me, and
that you love them as much as you

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love me. Father. I want
these whom you have given me to be

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with me where I am. Then
they can see all the glory you gave

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me because you love me even before
the world began. Oh, Righteous Father.

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The world doesn't know you, but
I do. And these disciples know

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you sent me. I have revealed
you to them, and I will continue

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to do so. Then your love
for me will be in them and I

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will be in them. And there
it is. M So he's praying for

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unity right in the church to be
one. You want to know what Jesus

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prayed for for you? He prayed
that that that's the only prayer he prayed

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specifically for you and for me.
Was that when he prayed that we'd be

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one? Yeah, and and and
the author of Hebrews says Jesus when he

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was on the cross, he said
he endured the cross for the joy that

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was set before him. Remember,
and you remember yesterday we talked about how

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he said just about labor and delivery. Yes, and he said how the

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cross will one day be joyous.
Yes. And I always think about that,

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that that comment, because you said, this is the only time he

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prayed for me, and you yes, you're correct in terms of an actual

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official prayer. But I'd like to
believe that the joy that was set before

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him on the cross, according to
Hebrews, was also you and me.

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Right, Oh, so so he
everything he did was for you and me.

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Yeah, of course, of course. But but but but that moment,

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just because the words are written down
on the black and white paper,

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it says for the joy set before
him, And it just links back to

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yesterday's podcast where he says, you
know that there's going to be joy afterwards,

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and you know, looking to the
future. But in that case,

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I think the joy was the salvation
of the human race, absolutely, and

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so so yeah, we were on
his mind. Yeah, we were on

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his mind. I think what I
was pointing out is sometimes it's easy to

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say, well, that was for
the disciples, or that was back then,

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right, And here he says,
I'm praying not only for these disciples,

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but also all who will ever believe
in me, which is incredible to

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their message. Right. So this
is the only time that he actually,

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with his own words, refers to
us. Yeah, right. Other times

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he refers generically for God so loved
the world that he loved, he speaks

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generically, but in this he's speaking
specifically to not the people in front of

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me, but the people that will
come after, everybody included in the future,

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who will ever, that's right from
now to the end of time.

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And so when he only prays one
prayer specifically only for those who come after

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the disciples, in that prayer,
the thing he asks God for is that

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we'd be We'd be one. Yeah, what's oneness? So let's talk about

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this who who? Uh. There's
a lot of religion in the world today.

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There's a lot of different religions that
believe a lot of different things.

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And so I would I would say, and I think we could build a

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very strong case here that who he's
praying for, we could capitalize that with

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as the church Big C. Yes, right, the big C Church.

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And when whenever you hear somebody in
church world say the church with the big

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sea, they're not referring to an
individual building or even a denomination. They're

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referring to the group of people that
Jesus is praying for, which is every

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person who believes in Jesus. We
believe that's the definition of the church.

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Right that, So there are big
Church of the Big C Church. And

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then that's why Herodis Church has a
small age small See in our logo is

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we're not the Big C Church.
We're just a part of it. Were

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the little Sea Church? Oh cool? I didn't know that that was the

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motivation for it. Behind that that's
cool, the uh that that makes it

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way cooler. The idea that like
every religion is a part of the church

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is not accurate. It's it's there
are a lot of religions out there that

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don't believe that Jesus Christ is the
way to heaven right right. There's a

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lot of denominations that are our church
e right, but they're not the Church

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Big C because they don't believe in
Jesus. So I believe that every every

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and I know you did too,
every church that's out there that can answer

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the question how do you get to
heaven? And that way includes and is

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exclusive to Jesus dying on the cross
and through that sacrifice. Then that then

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that would be the people that Jesus
prayed for, which is the church.

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So the U I had a meeting
in Cairo several years ago, and we

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wound up meeting with the Pope of
the Coptic Church. I think I've told

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this story before. He oversees one
of the largest Christian denominations in the world

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and the oldest. So the oldest
church that we know of that's still in

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existence today is the church that Mark, the author of the Book of Mark,

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started in Alexandria in like forty two
eighty and he eventually died as a

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martyr there. But that church eventually
became what is the Coptic Church. And

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so Pope Tuadro's the second is in
the direct lineage of all of the leaders

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of that church up until modern times. And so we want to having a

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meeting with him because we were doing
some other work, and I thanked him

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because his reputation is that he protects
other Christians. And in English he told

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me, he said, you know, the name on our church signs serves

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only to tell other Christians why we
disagree with each other. But the blood

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of our martyrs is mingled. And
he talked about, you know, it's

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in Christ alone, by faith alone, right, and God alone. That's

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amazing, and martyrs are mingled.
Yeah. But I came away thinking he's

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right. You know, Jesus isn't
up there trying to sort out the Baptists

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from the Presbyterians, from the Methodists
from the Nazarenes from the Church of God,

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from the right. That's that's not
what he's doing for him. He

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sees the family of God. So
the church signs only tell us. The

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names on our church signs only tell
us why we disagree with each other.

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The world doesn't even know. Lost
people don't know. A person who doesn't

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know Jesus has no concept of the
different between a Baptist and a Catholic,

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right, other than maybe one.
You know, hey, non denominational churches

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they have more their music's more fun, right, that's usually, but they

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don't know, they don't know the
difference theologically. And so there are And

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I'm not saying that our theological differences
don't matter. They do matter, sure,

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right, but fundamentally on the big
scale, He's saying, even as

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you have differences of opinion about the
nuances of your theology, I still desire

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that you be one. And sometimes
in the movement you and I grew up

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in our movement, took pride in
being separate from instead of being one with

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Yes. And so today I was
on a call. That's a massive statement

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there, buddy, Yeah, massive
statement. But every denomination has that temptation,

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every group of Christians has that temptation. So I was on a phone

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call today with some pastors from Iraq
and they are helping launch churches all over

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the Middle East in places that you
wouldn't believe there would be any churches.

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They're planting churches. Is so exciting. And they were asking then, because

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we're talking about starting this church planting
movement in the Middle East through the Timothy

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initiative, and they were asking,
so who do we work with? And

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we said, okay, So what
you were saying, the big Sea we

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all agree on Jesus. What you're
talking about is orthodoxy, right, So

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if you want the theological word,
orthodoxy is that there is a God,

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one God, the Triune God,
the Father's Son, and the Holy Spirit.

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He gave us his word, He
created us, and we are subject

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to him. We sinned and we
are separated from him because of our sin.

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So then the whole rest of the
Bible is God setting up a system

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to rescue us from our sins and
sending us on a mission. And the

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way he did that was that Jesus
was the virgin born son of God.

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He lived a sinless life, He
paid the price for our sin with his

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blood on the cross. He took
the punishment of our sin in his body.

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Because he did not deserve to pay
the price, he chose to do

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it for us. He was put
in the tomb and rose again on the

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third day. He ascended back to
the Father, and he'll come back and

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judge us someday. And salvation is
by grace through faith in Christ plus nothing

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right, that's the Orthodox Christian view. And then all the other things we

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can talk about communion. How often
should you have communion? Is baptism by

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sprinkling or his baptism by immersion?
Should we have our services on Saturday?

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Or should we have our services on
Sunday? Right? Is it right to

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have loud music on a Sunday morning? All those things us as denominations.

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But we have unity on the Orthodox
Christian doctrines of who Jesus is and the

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mechanisms of salvation that that has to
come. And so those are the things

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we can be unified in. So
the other thing is Jesus invites us to

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unity, He doesn't invite us to
conformity. Right, So I don't have

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to be like everybody else, And
I'm free to have opinions about the non

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orthodox theological issues. I can have
varying opinions about those things. I don't

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have to conform. He gave me
a mind, and he gave me the

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ability to study the word too.
But with regard to these key elements,

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we have to have unity. Yeah, yeah, that's great. And by

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the way, that it's a good
thing to talk about this. I remember

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hearing so pastor of I don't want
to say his name, his name,

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I don't say his name. There's
a pastor who when I was in Georgia,

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I remember them opening a church was
a very, very large and there's

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a lot of large churches in Georgia. But this happens to yeah web address.

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Yeah. So uh. They said
something about, well, don't you

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see your placement of this new church
that you built. Don't you see it

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as a major competition for the church
down the street. And I remember them

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saying a phrase that I just thought, this is brilliant. They said,

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well, we don't think that our
competition is with any church around the street.

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Our competition is NFL football and the
Georgia Aquarium. Yeah, that's our

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competition. Courses, that's right,
that's right. The pillow, Yes,

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the pillow. And I just remember
thinking like, oh my gosh, that's

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brilliant. And I remember that hearing
that, and I remember moving up to

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uh, Michigan after that, and
I remember joining a church and that pastor

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was planning on, you know,
the lead pastor I worked for, he

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was planning on starting a church in
a city, a nearby city, within

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like a year. And we had
already had like four hundred people that were

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itching to launch this church. Well, the church that I had just mentioned

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in Georgia, that same church was
also planting a church in that same city,

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and they had set up the pastor
up here to plant a church.

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Well, the guy I'm working for
puts him on the stage, puts him

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on the stage. He has no
ties to this guy. And he stands

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up there and granted I'm only a
few weeks in, right, I'm hired

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like fourteen days. And he sets
him on stage and he makes this comment.

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He says, hey, man,
but we would love, we would

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love nothing more than three or four
hundred of you who live in this city

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to leave our church and go be
a part of his church so that his

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church could be successful. And I
remember thinking, based on my background,

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I remember thinking myself, there is
no way that he meant any of that,

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because everybody knows that if three or
four hundred people leave, that's a

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large part of growth. But you
and I know he did mean it.

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He meant it. He did mean
it. Yeah, he meant it.

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And and that that means they take
their tithes and offerings, they take their

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budget, they take their volunteerism.
God's not broke, and he knows where

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his resources are. And so when
you are being when you're cooperating with His

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kingdom and his movement, and you're
cooperating with the Big C Church, he'll

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always have the resources. And I
remember learning over time that that we're not

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we're not against every other church down
the corner, not at all, even

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even if it has another denomination on
it. Right, if they're if they're

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part of the Big C Church,
right, we are for them right,

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right, And we mightn't necessarily agree
on all things. And by the way,

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it's okay to disagree and still worship
side by side. Absolutely absolutely,

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it is right. In fact,
I would even argue and say this,

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we have more in common than what
we are, you know, how we're

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different, We have more in common
than than our differences because we believe in

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the Orthodox Christianity, you know,
and so and so. I just learned

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a long long time ago that we're
not in competition with any other church,

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which, by the way, was
opposite of the culture that I grew up

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in. So we recently had a
family come and say, hey, we

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feel like the Lord's moving us,
going to move us away. We're not

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sure where yet, which is rare. I think God moves you to a

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thing. He rarely ever leaves leads
you away from a thing from a church.

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I think he usually leads you to
a church. But on occasion,

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God'll do this other thing. And
so we literally gave them a list of

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churches we think are great in the
community, right in our community. So,

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hey, we love these guys,
and I know these pastors, We

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love these people, and we gave
them a list of churches. Go,

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hey, go try these out,
because I get it. Sometimes God gives

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people like this holy discontent they're ready
to make a change or whatever. I

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always caution, rarely does God ever
lead you away from a church. He

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usually leads you to a ministry that
he needs you to do somewhere, right,

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And so that means we say goodbye
to one That's what he always did

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with Paul, That's what he did
with Barnabas, That's what he did with

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Peter. So what he did with
James and John right, he led them

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away, That's what they did,
and he led them to another place,

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not just from a place, but
yeah, we did that. We've given

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lists of churches that we think are
great in the area that we're happy.

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We are thrilled. Heritage Church failed. We failed as leaders. If people

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leave and just quit God and quit
the church. Sure, but sometimes God

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says, hey, I need to
move this asset from this place that's prepared.

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I need to move them over into
this place that has a deficit and

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to make this other church stronger.
And so we're thrilled that we get to

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be a part of that process because
we're not in competition. There's lots of

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people who don't know Jesus in our
area and so let's just go get some

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right, right, that's it.
We got to go tell more people about

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Jesus. If we're trying to hang
on to the ones God's loaned to us,

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they're not really ours, right,
He might be moving them on.

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And if that's the case, God
bless you. We support we celebrate the

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fact that all the churches in the
area are thriving and doing well. Yeah,

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that's great. Well, hey,
looks like that is our time,

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So we will pick up on Monday
and hopefully we'll see you there on the

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Bible. Guys,