Hi, my name is Mollie Thompson, and welcome back to The ProSource Podcast.
Today we have three incredible guests on to talk about how to manage a home
remodeling budget.
First we have Anton Lauter on from Greenville Kitchen and Bath.
He is one of our trade pros from Prosource of Greenville.
Then we will welcome on Stephen Matlon.
He is the Vice President of National Accounts over at MasterBrand Cabinets.
And then to finish off the episode I am joined by Greg Payne,
Director of Buying Groups at Engineered Floors.
As we know, a home
remodel can be a huge investment and budgets can range from small to large.
No matter what your remodel is and how much you are wanting
to spend on it, Prosource Wholesale has your back.
As we have a variety of different products at different price levels.
Let's go ahead and dive into the episode.
Today we have Anton Lotter here.
He is a Prosource trade Pro member from Prosource of Greenville
and owner of Greenville Kitchen and Bath.
Anton, thank you so much for joining.
How are you doing today? Doing good. Thanks for having me.
I'm excited to be able to talk to you.
Awesome. Yes, likewise.
So today we're talking all about managing a home remodeling budget.
Just jumping right in.
What are some things that homeowners usually consider when they're setting a
budget for their remodel?
I'd say one of the biggest things that people consider for
their budget is actually how long they're going to be staying in the home.
Quite often we have homeowners that are only going to be there for, say,
like seven years and they move into this house and,
it's just not quite flowing the way that they would like it.
And they wanted to make it their own, but they also don't want to necessarily
like, you know, pile a bunch of money into the house.
Another thing, it's
just the overall cost of the home, the neighborhood that they're in.
I'd say those are those are probably the primary ones
for sure.
Yeah.
You don't want to dump a bunch of money into a place
you're not going to be at for 20 or 30 years.
Yeah, exactly.
What are some ways you have seen homeowners save money
in order to afford the home remodel that they're wanting?
Quite often it comes down to compromise on materials.
That's a big one.
But another thing that, you know, I really like to do when I go in and
and I talk to somebody, just talk about the overall pain points
or what they're looking to achieve as far as esthetically and trying to come up
with a version of that, that at least kind of gets them in that ballpark.
But I'd be able to cut their cost down, say, 20 or 30%.
Quite often
it does come down to materials, just line of materials, line of cabinetry.
You know that it's selection items.
But you know, when it comes to the labor, it kind of is what it is.
But I'd say those are probably the biggest ones.
And just curious.
How long have you been working with ProSource as a member?
As a member myself?
About a year and a half, but I've worked with other companies
where we use ProSource, so I'm probably like
about four years into, like, relationship with ProSource.
How long have you guys been working?
Basically since the beginning.
So about a year and a half now.
Okay.
We work with Ben primarily over here at the Greenville location.
How have you seen ProSource help homeowners at different price points
during the home remodeling process?
So the way we use
ProSource, I'd say primarily for the most part is,
with their cabinet lines and they have quite a few.
You know, cabinet options to choose from.
So, we tend to sell
quite a bit of waypoint cabinets, which is a line that, you know,
I don't know if waypoint is something that's across the board,
for all prosource locations, but, definitely one here in Greenville.
Is that.
Are you familiar with Waverly cabinets at all?
Yes, yeah, I am, we do.
It does vary across locations.
I'd say it's a pretty popular one, though, that.
Yeah, I'd say most ProSource’s have it if I'm if I'm not wrong.
Very good quality cabinet.
It's it's a good example for, you know, it's a good meet in the middle, product.
So, we kind of steer a lot of the customers towards that.
For example.
Waypoint also has, another line of cabinets
that just like a step down that, you know, it only comes in one color
and one door style that, people are as picky.
They can go with that, save quite a bit of money,
and then they can even step up from there.
There's a lot of full custom lines as well, so they do a really good job
as far as people coming in and looking for different options
and try to make their dreams become a reality, but still stay within
a certain price point.
How do you help homeowners determine the project's scope?
Does the type of room they're remodeling make a big difference in that process?
Yeah, particularly if it's a kitchen.
You know, the scope of work for a kitchen often times
bleeds into the rest of the house.
And, you know, you're focusing on the kitchen and all of a sudden, you know,
you want to match
certain trims in your house and you know, your paint bleeds into the house
and then you just get some more ideas.
So with kitchens that that often times is the case,
bathrooms are a little bit different.
And, you know,
we have customers where you come in and they know exactly what they want.
And then some people that need that guidance.
And you know, we're happy to do that as well.
But I'd say, you know, just naturally a bathroom is going to be more contained.
And then, your kitchen's it's easy, easy to get out of hand.
We'll just say,
yeah, for sure.
And I know for bathrooms, it depends on if it's like a guest facing bathroom versus
if it's a bathroom that's connected to, like a master bedroom.
For example.
It used to be a lot different between the two.
Yeah, absolutely.
What specific costs do home owners need to budget
for when they're planning a kitchen or a bathroom?
Home remodel?
Well, for a kitchen, I'd say, you know, just naturally the,
you know, your primary cost is going to be at least 60% of the cost,
at least is going to be, you know, just within your cabinets and your countertops.
And from there, obviously, you have your backsplash,
all your selections from your sinks, your hardware faucets.
You know, the list can go on and on depending on what you're dealing.
Particularly a big cost for a kitchen can be
if you're going to actually change the floor plan itself, then you can start
digging into flooring because now the flooring is not going to match.
If you're taken out walls getting,
you know, kind of from the previous question
that's going to start bleeding and going, you know, with bathrooms, you know,
one of the biggest, you know, your biggest cost
factor is going to be in your wet area in general.
So your actual shower stall or your, your, your tub,
if you're going to be relocating anything, your prices are going to be going up
versus just sticking, you know, staying with a natural footprint
tile compared to an acrylic shower is a huge, huge leap in costs. So,
you know, homeowners
will definitely have to take that into consideration as far as the scope
and cost and everything, I've seen a lot of people dive into,
when it comes to like, showers, the stone look,
for the bottom of the of a shower, that's,
I would think, very expensive, right, to put that into a home.
Yeah.
I mean, so if you're going to go with, so you can have a tile shower,
but an acrylic shower pan, you know, you can save money
by doing an acrylic shower pan.
But if you want to pick your own shower,
floor tile and have you, say, linear drains or or drains that are,
colored to match your fixtures and stuff like that right off the bat?
Yeah.
You're you're going to be jumping up in, in cost and scope of the project.
And are you seeing a lot of people install or put in, like islands in their kitchen
or when they're taking away an island is the cost and not also skyrocketing?
The whole project where where it gets out of hand, I guess, is just like
flooring can always be something that people don't take into consideration.
So if you're if you're adding an island, you have room for it.
That's not too big of a deal.
If it's just, two 30 inch, you know, base cabinets and a countertop, sometimes
you get creative, let's say like a butcher block on there to save some money.
But yeah, when you tend to start you moving the layout
and and exposing, raw floor and having to tie that in.
So you have a hardwood floor in your house and you move it a little bit and you got
a tie and just two square feet of hardwood,
but you got to sand and finish the entire lower level to make it look good.
So yeah.
Yeah, that would be that would be an entire project.
If a homeowner is planning to remodel their kitchen,
they may not think about the fact that their kitchen's going to be out of order
for a period of time while the remodeling is taking place.
Do you see that homeowners are often forgetting about the fact that their
kitchen is going to be, like, unable to be used,
or they're not going to be able to cook like they usually are? They're not.
They're going to have to eat out a little bit more.
Are people factoring in those costs?
So the cost I think they think about it a little bit.
And but, you know, reality doesn't hit until, you know, it's actually happening.
You know, like we just went through a hurricane,
and just being out of power for a little bit, luckily we had running
water, but, you know, and those luxuries are taken away for a little bit.
They seem to be manageable.
And then, you know, as time goes on, it can get it can get to be hard.
So oftentimes, see, people just, set up, you know, little, little tables
and little microwaves and might they might stock up on the freezer.
So there's definitely the consideration for, for eating out.
I think the best way to mitigate that, particularly for kitchen jobs,
where it's literally just swapping out the cabinets,
the same footprint, new cabinets, new countertop backsplash.
Best thing to mitigate that is to just be prepared.
Having all your guys in line, making sure everyone's on the same page
with schedule, and try to do it as quickly as possible.
You know, ideally in a week and a half two weeks scenario,
it is possible to do a full kitchen.
We'll call it a facelift, you know, versus a remodel.
But yeah, that is always, it can it can be a pain to be a pain part of it.
I'm sure people just don't think about that until it's
until they can't get into their kitchen and make something
and they're like, oh, shoot, I didn't prepare for this.
Yeah, it's probably fun at first.
Like, oh, I guess we can.
I guess we'll have to eat out tonight.
But yeah, I was like, I guess we got to eat out again.
Geez, what is this going to be?
Yeah. Exactly.
How involved are you and helping homeowners determine
their needs in a home remodel versus their wants?
Needs versus wants?
I think, it's a good opportunity to sell a kitchen to somebody
or sell a project and let them know that you're actually care about
what's going on.
So, like, I love going into a
I mean, I did it this morning with a follow up consultation
to a project that we looked at and, you know,
sometimes people get tunnel vision and they think about something that they
really, really like because it looks good on Instagram or whatever.
And you have to remind them or, you know, you mentioned
before that like,
this was the problem, that you had the biggest problem in your kitchen,
but solve that problem and try to make it
look really nice to, you know, you know, there's there's a meat in the middle.
But often when you when you show people that you're actually
conscious of their issues versus their wants,
you tend to win them over and actually sell more projects that way.
And people respect that.
And, you know, realize that you're human, trying to help them out.
So I feel like we're pretty involved in that.
And I like when it comes up in solving people's problems that way,
because I'm sure it's easy for them to get that tunnel vision.
Like you said, seeing the nice, pretty things.
They don't think about the functionality of their kitchen,
and you're saving them in the long run with issues that might come up
if they're not thinking about those things. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
How can the value in the home and similar homes in the neighborhood
influence a homeowner's desire to remodel their home?
This comes up quite a bit too,
you know, almost touched on a little bit in the first question
or a first or second question about, the neighborhood you're in.
I think it's a lot easier pill to swallow for people that are in, say, custom homes
for one of a kind homes, say, homes within city
limits in downtown areas where they're not here.
Cookie cutter, tract style home.
And also, if you're in a neighborhood where people are,
you know,
it's an up and coming neighborhood and things are changing around you,
it's almost certainly not to update at that point because,
you know, you're losing out on on value in your home.
So I think it's a lot easier for people to do that in those situations
versus, say, somebody in a track home or in a typical neighborhood.
You know, I live in in the neighborhood like that, and we would love
to do a kitchen remodel, but, you know, you just have to meet in the middle,
you know, you can do some updates.
It's kind of going back to those people rolling and live here for seven years.
So let's make it nice.
Maybe not. You know, digging full into it.
So are you seeing that anyone be kind of annoyed
at the fact that they feel a little bit like pressure to update their home
due to the other homes around them being updated or exploding?
I haven't seen that personally.
Okay, I haven't really ran into that yet, and I'm sure you know
that is the situation like, you know, hopefully it's somewhat of a gold mine
and you're, you know, you, you bought at the right time
and now everyone's updating and you might as well
jump on the bandwagon and absolutely open concept floor plans are popular.
Now, we've talked a little bit about someone redoing their flooring
and what issues that could bring up.
Have you seen the trend impact homeowners remodeling
budgets, trying to get into that open concept floor plans?
Yeah, I mean it definitely.
It definitely digs into, you know, more framing, large framing aspects
and change the scope of the work quite a bit in order to achieve that.
And it's definitely more popular.
I've seen a lot of dining rooms, you know, unused dining rooms
getting pushed aside.
And, you know, if your dining room adjoins your kitchen, it makes more sense
now to turn that basically into one big family space.
So that's definitely more popular.
And I let's look at that myself.
So yeah, it makes it feel a little bit more spacious.
Definitely opens up the house a little bit more
to where it feels like there's more room, I think.
Yeah.
What advice would you offer to homeowners who are feeling overwhelmed
when it comes to planning their budget for a remodel?
I mean, a good at least starting point to get a rough idea
you can kind of consider anywhere from 15 to 20%.
You know, of course, that number can go up and down
depending on the neighborhood and the the quality home, let's call it that.
You're in, you know, 8 to 10% for bathrooms if you,
if the overall cost of your house, it's kind of like a rough starting point.
But I think the best thing to do is if if you're really considering it
and you're in an area
that you're going to be in for a while, find a contractor that you like
and see if they can give you a quote.
Because, you know, we we're we're willing to give people free quotes.
If we don't use them at that time, maybe we'll use them down the line,
or maybe they'll use this as a recommendation to their friends
so it doesn't hurt out to at least get out there.
I mean, if you're if you're really serious about it and,
have somebody give you a quote and just be honest with where you're at
and your expectations, and I'm sure there's plenty of contractors out there
that are that are happy to help you at least get an idea on there.
And if you're in the Greenville area, they can contact you.
Yes please do.
Greenville Kitchen and Bath.
Yes, I yeah, I would think that people
are very overwhelmed until they outsource a professional
and then it helps them kind of take a deep breath
and know that they're not in it by themselves and they shouldn't be.
Right.
Like it's I imagine it's very difficult to determine their budget
not knowing the ins and outs of remodeling their home.
Yeah.
It's a and it's a big deal and it's overwhelming.
And quite often it's people's you know if it's a big kitchen or a big remodel,
even a big master bathroom.
I mean, they only make so many big purchases in our life.
And quite often remodels are one of them.
So it's nice to be able to provide that service, have that human quality
with the person and, you know, hopefully at least leave a good impact on them.
So yeah, no hard feelings if you decide, whoa, this is way
this is way over my head.
But yeah, at least you're getting that clear answer.
Yeah.
How do you manage homeowner's expectations
after the homeowner presents their budget for a remodel?
If they're clear and just let me know, I can just basically tell them
realistically where what we're looking at and, an idea of what we could do
in that budget, quite often the budget is just so unrealistic that, you know,
we just have that point blank say,
you know, it's just not going to happen, basically.
But, you know, that's it.
You know, you go into a house
and they're looking to do a full kitchen remodel for $10,000 kind of thing.
But I'm pretty, pretty clear and straightforward.
I try to give them, you know, and quite often we're trying to find,
you know, a middle ground because not everyone,
you know, people want what they want.
And we can find a way to make it work where we both are obviously,
you know, gaining from the experience.
But, you know,
I just try to be pretty straightforward with them and let them know.
Well, that is all I have for you today.
Anton, thank you so much for joining.
Thank you for taking time out of your busy day.
I know you're busy, so I really appreciate it.
No, I appreciate it is my first, podcast experience.
I think you're allowing me to be on.
We are
joined by Stephen Matlon from MasterBrand.
He serves as their Senior Director of Retail Sales,
MasterBrand is one of the largest cabinet manufacturers in North America.
Their brands offer both quality and versatility, fair prices
and are backed by extensive networks of cabinet dealers and manufacturers.
Some of their brands include Schrock, Diamond, Kemper, Decora, just to name
a few.
And Stephen, you've been with Master Brand for 23 years.
Is that credit right? That is correct. Yep.
That's a good amount of time to know the ins and outs of Master Brand. Yes.
Well, today's episode we're talking all about managing a home remodeling budget.
And I would say cabinets are definitely at the forefront of that.
Whenever homeowners or trade pros are looking at doing a remodel.
So MasterBrand offers cabinets
at a range of prices for both homeowners and professionals.
Where did this commitment to serve all budgets start,
and how has it continued over the years for MasterBrand?
Well, Master Brand is a collection of companies purchased over the last
25 years.
We started out in one price point, and what we've done is we've acquired
companies that are the best at what they do at different price points.
So today, 25 years later, through a series of acquisitions, we offer everything
from the most basic cabinetry, put in a new construction home to,
a set, super custom kitchen for the most discerning homeowner.
I was looking at the list of all the brands you guys have,
and I forget just how many. Sometimes there are.
There's a huge list of them, and I was thinking about listing them all.
But it was going to be a mouthful for sure.
Yeah.
And the thing about the brands is, is nobody would know our brand.
Because if you think about it, you buy
a car 8 to 12 times in your lifetime,
you buy a kitchen 1.6 times in your lifetime on average.
So for most people, it's a one and done.
And so the names mean nothing to them.
But to your point, it's all about the price points and the features.
Yeah, we were just talking about you know that's usually a one once
in a lifetime type of purchase is doing a kitchen remodel.
What have you heard from homeowners about how they manage their budgets
during such a big purchase?
Well, I tell you, it's interesting.
We do a lot of consumer research on budgets.
Most people, because they don't do this.
But once in a lifetime they really have no idea on what their budget should be.
And this is the biggest thing.
So we do extensive research after someone has bought a kitchen. And
the biggest comment that we get back as a manufacturer
is what we call reverse buyer's remorse, meaning
I didn't know how much to budget my designer or the person that I dealt
with tried to to give me a good deal, but in the end,
I didn't get everything I wanted and I wish that I would have spent more.
So, believe it or not, consumers are not shocked by how much they have to spend.
They're usually disappointed more shocked in that they did not
get educated on all the things that they can add into their kitchen.
Yeah, if you're going to spend the amount of money that you're going to,
you might as well get everything you want instead of being disappointed
at the end of that.
Now that's interesting.
How does Master
Man show respect for homeowners who are saving up for their dream remodel?
Do you guys work with,
I guess kind of dive a little bit deeper into those consumer researching and,
looking at budgets for different price points.
So of course we don't sell the kitchen.
They buy it through through our friends at Key Global Prosource or The keepers.
And so what we do is we educate the designers.
And what what if you walk into a prosource or a key bar,
you have at least three different brands for master brand, and they will cover a
wide range of price points.
So what we educate our designers on is
make sure you spend a lot of time with that customer, ask a lot of questions
before you start diving into designs or getting into budget.
Find out what their lifestyle is like.
What do they want out of their kitchen remodel?
What are they not happy with in the current kitchen they have?
And then when you start to explore all those questions,
you're going to put together some nice options for them.
And that's the beauty of Master Brand, because we have a full
portfolio of product, not just high end, not just low end.
You can pretty much give them, you know, a good variety of options
to choose from to meet their particular needs.
Yeah.
And so when it comes to storage, you mentioned,
thinking about what you want, what kind of lifestyle
a homeowner is going to be pursuing in their kitchen.
How can homeowners improve their ability to assess
their storage needs prior to purchasing a new cabinetry?
Well, I'll tell you what.
That's one of the the beauties of of a large company like Master Brand.
We have extensive websites for all of our brands.
And so what we actually do is we encourage our,
our customers to go out onto our websites,
and all of our websites are set up where you can look at the different things,
and if you love it, you can make it a favorite,
put a nice hard on there and then you can after you're done looking at that,
you can actually save that and then you can send that.
You can either print it out or save it as a PDF.
Send that to your designer and say, hey, when we come in and we talk about
my kitchen,
here are some of the things that I looked at that I really liked, storage options
and so forth.
So we make it super easy for them to shop
in the convenience of their home whenever it's good for them.
And as a result of that, they come in as a much more educated consumer.
I think initially, they'll definitely have to think about
what kind of storage they want
and what they're going to be using their kitchen for
if they're big into cooking or not.
That definitely probably plays a role in
what kind of storage they want in their cabinets.
You bet.
Yes, I what do homeowners often forget when they're purchasing new cabinets,
and how can they better prepare?
Well, I think what happens is they think about the cabinets themselves
and then they forget that, especially in the budgeting process.
Well, if you get new cabinets, you got to get a new countertop.
If you get a new countertop, you've got to get a new sink and a new closet.
And so they forget about those purchases or that when you buy cabinets,
you're going to have to put new handles on all those cabinets,
and you need to count up the number of doors and drawer
had you have, and figure out how many cabinets are in.
Make sure that that all gets in your budget.
And same thing with flooring.
Do you need new flooring at the same time, or
are you going to just put the cabinets in and keep the existing going for a while?
So what we again, we train our dealers.
Make sure you're selling the entire package.
And the focus just just is not on the cabinets.
Some homeowners
may be under the impression that they might have to compromise style
for their budget. When purchasing cabinets.
How does master brand offer style and quality even at lower price points?
That's a great question because that's right.
You know, when you purchase a new kitchen, you want to make sure
that it's an upgrade from what you have and regardless of what your budget is.
So there's a few things that are common across
all of our cabinet lines, regardless of the price point.
Number one is it is a factory baked on finish.
So it's going to last.
Number two is all of our cabinets have matching easy to clean interior.
We see a lot of old kitchens coming out.
People have contact paper and everything on them
because that's what you had to do way back then.
You don't need to do that with any of our price points.
All of our hardware meets strict ICC testing certification.
And what that is, is a company that,
everyone's
cabinets get tested like they open and close the door.
So many cycles to represent a lifetime.
So we're able to offer, our, our warranties
run anywhere from five years up to a lifetime.
And on all of our hardware, it is a lifetime warranty.
So you're getting a durable kitchen no matter what.
And then as far as your question on the styling,
right now, white shaker is the most popular style of kitchen.
We have a ton of white cheaper options across all the spectrums.
You will always find something you like.
The more you pay, the more choices you get.
But you even even at the value price point, you're going to get a wide
range of color choices, door style choices, wood specie choices.
So, we make it accessible to everyone
from the beginning right up to the end.
So yeah, again, that's unique about Master Brand in that
our competitors usually I mean, they play in one price point.
You should get the kitchen you want.
And that's what we're able to do is give you enough choices that you can find
the style, the color and all the features you want to fit your particular budget.
What role have you seen your partners at ProSource play in helping homeowners
and trade pros purchasing cabinetry while also navigating that search your budget
pro sources is awesome because what they do
is they do a great job of training their designers.
Not only through the training that we provide at Master Brand,
but they've got their own
dedicated team of kitchen and bath experts there that train designers.
And really, to make this the most positive
experience, it is all about the designer.
Our cabinets are great, but if they're not sold by a well
experienced designer, we both fail the consumer in the end.
So process has really shown a dedication to this category
as far as training their designers, staffing their stores adequately
and then, giving them the brands that they need.
And of course, what also is nice about Prosource is Prosource.
They sell at a competitive price point.
People love to shop at Prosource and they know that it's where the pros go.
And so they know that they're
they're going to get a competitive price and walk out of there
with the kitchen that they like at a at a price that probably can't be beat.
Yeah. There's a lot that goes into picking a cabinet.
And with there being so many options, I couldn't imagine doing it like by myself
without a team of experts and like a designer like you mentioned,
helping navigate what my budget is and then what options I have with that budget.
So I completely agree.
It seems very overwhelming to do it alone.
Amazon is great for some for some products.
Amazon is not great for cabinets.
You absolutely.
You it's critical to have a designer in that process.
And like I said, ProSource does not try to skimp.
They have plenty of
of well-qualified designers in every location across the country.
And it it is an excellent place to get that kitchen.
And the other beauty about buying at a pro sources.
I talked about the other things you need for that.
You know you probably you're going to replace your flooring.
At the same time, you're probably going
to replace your countertops, your sinks, your closet at the same time.
They have all of that.
They literally are a one stop shop.
You don't have to, go shopping in multiple places.
You can get it done.
Your prosource designer will put that all together for you.
How have you seen trade pros, specifically interior designers,
be creative in their approach with cabinet budgets during a project.
It all comes down to what does the consumer want is
is asking those probing questions and and showing up
for a bunch of different options again that the beauty and a pro sources
they do have all those multiple price points.
A lot of the competitors out there will just have 1 or 2 price points.
So they either have something lower end
or they have something higher end, but not that covers the whole spectrum.
And so again, the bad part is you as a consumer,
they're kind of just trying to put you into a brand or a price point.
Whatever they carry. ProSource doesn't do that.
They give those interior designers will give you plenty of options,
and they'll tell you as you go up and price.
Here's what you get as you go down in price.
Here's some of the things that you got to give up.
But you're going to make an informed purchase at a pro center for anyone
that is, looking into doing a kitchen remodel, it can be kind of stressful.
Absolutely.
But what would you say to reassure a homeowner
that might be feeling overwhelmed during the remodel?
Well, that you're not in it alone.
I mean, that's the thing.
You you have that designer, they're there to help you every step of the way.
And when you feel confused, they're overwhelmed.
I mean, it's really within your power to say, stop.
Can you explain that a little bit more here?
Can you help me with this or what about this?
I've seen this.
So that's why you really want that trusted advisor with you every step.
And to not have to do it on your own.
There's a lot of places that you go, you know,
the big boxes that are out there, you're pretty much left out to your own.
Right.
And Prosource does not take that approach.
They want to hold your hand through every step of that process
and make you feel comfortable.
And if you don't feel comfortable, you stop.
Go back and make sure you understand everything before
you're ever, you know, before you make that purchase again.
It's a once in a lifetime
purchase in pro sources that there that that's the other nice thing.
This is not a high pressure sales environment.
It's an education environment.
People love that.
Is there anything exciting, happening with MasterBrand
going into 2025 that you'd want to share?
Well, I would tell you that I mean finishes
continue to get more exotic.
So what I mean by that is we talked about the white kitchen.
And the white kitchen has been really popular for about the last 15, 20 years.
And what we're starting to see is you would buy
just a white kitchen in the past.
And now people are experimenting.
They're putting in different colors within the same kitchen.
Maybe the base cabinets are one style in the upper cabinets or another style,
or the island is a is a complementary style.
So they're putting more than one finish in these kitchens,
and they're doing a whole heck of a lot more with storage.
And as a result of that, we're building out more stains, more colors.
We just introduced in one of our lines.
You can take a Sherwin Williams or Benjamin Moore colored paint deck,
and you can literally get any color you want in your cabinets.
There, between the two of them, there's like 5000 choices
where before you might have only have,
you know, four different whites and a few beiges to choose from.
You've got 5000 colors at your fingertips where absolutely
the consumer is, is more discerning.
Again, still tight on a budget, but we're able to offer these things
still on a budget just because of the technology.
And we're able to provide more without spending a lot more these days.
And that's exciting.
I've noticed that trend of bold colors and just bold textures
happening throughout all different product categories, not just cabinets.
So it's definitely not surprising that it's happening with cabinets too.
One of the surprising things is, that navy blue or a dark blue?
Yeah, we
thought that that would be maybe something people would just do a blue island.
But we're finding people doing blue kitchens and that's right.
They're experimenting with these colors more and more.
And even if it's only so many cabinets in the kitchen,
like I said, that was always standard to do one color in a kitchen.
We don't see that anymore.
And then there is exciting things in lighting options.
There's all kinds of built in LED lighting and so forth
that, you know, you didn't have that five, ten years ago.
You can get that now.
So it's an exciting time to do kitchen remodel.
Yeah, industry is absolutely changing and there's more options than ever.
Absolutely I agree that's all I have for you today Steve.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
My pleasure. Thank you.
We have Greg Payne back on the podcast.
He's the director of buying groups over at Engineered Floors.
And I think last time you were here, Greg, was when you were here
for our kitchen Design episode, like earlier this year.
That is correct.
And strangely enough, Molly, we are remodeling our kitchen as we speak.
Wow, that inspired it.
But yeah, just not into existence.
Well, thank you for coming back on, today we're talking about
managing a home remodeling budget.
Engineered floors is perfect for this episode
because you guys supply flooring for all kinds of budget.
And that's absolutely going to dive into a little bit today.
Engineered floors have served
both homeowners and trade professionals alike at a variety of price points.
Where did that commitment come from.
Was that the focus from the start, do you think, or has that developed over time?
Mr. shore had always felt like creating
a flooring, for the masses, for everyone.
Right.
Giving everyone a chance to buy high quality, high performance,
high style product at a budget price, whatever their budget price would be?
Not the budget prices cheap?
Are expensive, wherever that budget may be.
And that that's always been a,
guiding influence of us, I guess, kind of one of our,
core, beliefs
of creating products that can work with anyone,
and they can feel comfortable with our products from performance and from style.
And I think we've done some things even with color, with tonal, with tri tones.
And, some of the things that we've done are creating the solution dyed,
yarn system that we have that helps with staining and, and all of those issues.
So I think we've look at the consumer a much like we look at ourselves,
you know, what's you know, what would I want to put in my house.
Right.
What would I want to see in my environment and what are some of my concerns.
And I think we really focus on that for everyone, you know?
And so, that's always been a guiding principle.
And what feedback have you heard from homeowners about their forward budgets?
Well, it's kind of interesting
when you start talking to people about flooring budgets.
Number one, no one's really sure how much it cost.
I mean, you know, it's it's the oddest thing because,
you know, you, you think about, the purchase cycle,
you know, it's not something that happens every other week
or every other year or every ten years.
That's kind of what, you know, it's been used as an example
of the turn of flooring, but it probably is a little bit longer than that.
And so, you know, that first time home
buyer might not even have a choice of selecting flooring.
They want because it's already in the budget for that home.
And they just have a choice of style or color.
Right. Yeah.
And so they don't even really know because it's kind of built in to,
the cost of the home.
So it's really that's that secondary buy or someone buying an existing home
that wants to replace
the flooring is probably the first time they've ever been exposed to it.
Right.
And so their expectations on what flooring cost, can vary dramatically.
But one thing that we've always found to research
is the majority of these consumers, very high percent of them
always say they felt like they spent less than they actually thought
they would spend. Foreign.
So that's good feedback.
I think that just indicates that we need to make sure they understand.
You know what, you know their budget, you know, if they come in and say,
this is my budget, well,
here's where you could be and here's the reasons for it, right?
I think that's a big part of of the rsas responsibility, the,
account managers responsibility, whoever is dealing with that customer.
A big part of that you had a good point about.
It's usually the second time, around when a home buyer
is really investing into a flooring that's going to be there for a lot longer.
Because thinking about home buyers from, like around my age, for example,
we probably don't have the money to put in really nice, high quality, flooring.
So maybe we're going to
we're going to scale back the budget a little bit with that. Right.
If we do remodeling, the thing that happens,
you're sitting there, you probably are doing a lot of research,
trying to figure out, you know, just how much I'm going to spend.
Right.
And, this is where, you know, I'm really think Prosource
really helps with that from a design perspective,
from helping people find things that, do address their budget,
but maybe giving them those options of finding some additional things,
you know, a lot of environments is kind of pushing
you toward a certain segment versus kind of giving you the options.
And I think that's a big benefit of what Prosource provides.
You know, the account managers are very good about kind of directing,
you know, people to kind of find an area and then kind of decide
what's going to work for them. Absolutely.
So with when it comes to trade pros, are you finding that you're hearing
about the same kind of response just through the trade Pro
like they're getting that that information from the home buyer and they're,
you know, feeding that into engineered floors or is that different at all.
This kind of goes back to the experience of what is your budget, right.
Yeah. And a lot of people don't want to share that.
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, oh it's kind of this range, you know.
You know they're never really they're people that are specific,
you know, but a lot of times people are because
maybe they haven't done their research or maybe, you know, they're afraid
to expose their true budget because, you know, they're comfortable, right?
Yeah.
And, you know, I think this is where, the trade pros really come in, is creating
that level of comfort because, you know, when you have people
that are willing to spend money with you, the one way to create a bond with them
is to build trust, which means usually people are more willing
to spend more money a ton more, but a little bit more.
Right?
If it makes sense because you've built that trust factor.
And and I think with any sale and especially a big ticket items,
you know, building that trust factor is, is essential.
You know, you know it that's going to help you close the program.
That's going to help you, increase the budget slightly.
Our, our steer them into something.
You really for this, type of insulation, you really budget a little too much.
Maybe we can do something else
to save you a little money here and then do something else.
It necessarily would be important to you.
So I think all of that is a matter of trust.
You know, I think the trade pros do a excellent job of of creating
that bond of trust with the, customers that are coming in with budget concerns.
So why do you think flooring is
one of the top things that homeowners want to replace in their home?
Well, you know, it's it's kind of funny as a flooring person,
I don't want to say flooring geek.
You could say the same person.
You know, it's a terrible habit.
You know, you have people looking down at the floor no matter where you're at.
Yeah, but but the reality is, you know, when you walk into a room,
you know, it really is the, you know, fourth wall, right?
I mean, it's something that pulls the room together.
It's something that draws attention and it's something that, you notice
that maybe it's not kept up as nicely as it should be.
I mean, you just you notice things, right?
But not necessarily look on the wall unless
some kid's written their name on it.
You know, you see something on the wall.
The weird thing is, you know,
I don't think people look at much at the ceiling either.
I think it's really the floor and the walls.
And the reason I say that we just, painted our kitchen ceiling blue.
Oh, well.
And so a kind of a light blue, kind of a light sky, autumn sky.
And it's funny because people see the floor first.
Yeah. Not kidding.
And, then they, they kind of see the walls
and it's like the last moment they go, oh my God, ceiling is blue, you know.
Yeah.
So I mean people just focus on flooring, even if they're not flooring geeks,
there tends to be a focus on flooring, especially if it's making a statement.
And I think most flooring does make a statement.
I think that's one of the main things.
It's just one of those things that,
you know, someone walks into an environment and you know, it's
just one of those things that jumps out at you.
You know, it's it's kind of that high and, you know, it's kind of the bow
on your room.
Right?
And so, you know, people have a pretty bar.
All right. So yeah, absolutely.
It can be it can make a statement in a good way or that way.
Right. Exactly right.
And everyone's looking down when they're walking.
Everyone's looking down to make sure they're not.
Yeah. On anything.
So that's a good point I don't even think about.
You have to look down or you'll fall.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Realistically, thinking about it,
how do you think homeowners and trained professionals alike can better
improve the preparation process before their flooring is replaced?
And this is just my outside opinion looking in.
I think, there's been a very good job of training them to take those steps.
It's like anything, if you're not prepared
and you kind of stumble and bumble around, right.
And I think the trade pros really want to be prepared.
They want to show that professionalism.
And that's the first step of building trust,
which eventually will help them close the sale.
So I think that preparation, is something
that is apparent with, every time I've been in a showroom.
You see that immediately, on how people respond, you know, the appointments
that they make, you know, the phone calls they make to, their members.
And so I think there's a lot of,
preparation that goes into that process, which I think is essential.
It's something that,
you know, almost everything you want to do and do successfully,
you need to prepare. Absolutely.
And so we talked a little bit about quality and budget and that relationship.
What would you say to homeowners that are under the false impression
that they have to compromise style with a lower budget?
This is where I think engineer flaws really fits that niche.
Being able to, to offer, a lot of high style.
So several reasons behind that one.
A lot of our
products are multiple weight products, which are multiple price products.
But I also think, we create a true value story, with our products
because of, of how they're built, how they're manufactured by true value.
I'm not only talking from a price perspective, but of a design,
a style and a performance perspective, and we create high twist products.
We create technologically advanced products,
that are unique, in the industry,
for example, our high def product, which is a carpet, product,
we can use up to 24 colors and creating one style.
Do we use 24? No, but we can.
Yeah, but it allows us to do is use many multiple colors,
which gives your trade pro and the consumer
the option of having a chameleon effect.
And let me explain that.
So if someone comes in and they have these colors are looking for
and they're finding warm or they're finding cool
and but they're looking they're like, well, I'm not quite sure, you know,
if this color works for me
and you can lay down products because of all of those colors
blended into that style, it will pull those colors out
that reflect the main color they're looking to match.
So it makes it truly a chameleon type effect,
so it makes them feel a lot more comfortable.
In addition to that, at some point I say, hey, we're,
you know, going to redo our house,
but we're probably going to sell it in five years.
Guess what?
It works for the next customer coming in, right?
Yeah, maybe they don't have to change it,
even though as an industry we'd like for them to change it.
Yeah, that's an additional sell that, sold home where they're changing it,
but they wouldn't have to because of that chameleon effect of furniture.
Our decor, our color scheme is different.
Maybe they could pick up that color scheme out of that so that that's one of the,
I think unique benefits that we provide.
We also do some things in the,
twist ax, style, which is on your floors, the loop product, but it's done with,
instead of, two yarn systems combined.
We have three, and we're now up to five, which gives you a unique visual creates
almost a more natural, you know, seagrass, blue clay type one.
But in a synthetic with the same type of style from color
of that chameleon type effect.
But high performance, you know, makes great stair runners, great wall
to wall with high style, giving you that, natural loop.
Type visual that's in the resist at three point.
So those type products I think are,
very beneficial, for that type of a consumer.
Yeah.
And I think it also helps prove the point of engineered floors.
You guys are looking at the long run.
You weren't just trying to make, you know, like a quick sale.
So that like you
mentioned, when you're selling the home, you can try to make another sale.
You're looking at the long haul and you're wanting to appease
to where homeowners aren't having to constantly change their flooring.
So you're having that style that's timeless and also the durability
in your flooring as well. So it's going to hold up a Molly.
That's absolutely correct.
I mean, even though our founder is an older gentleman,
his grandsons are younger.
They're probably around your age and they're looking for the long term
viability of, of the industry and the long term viability of our company.
So, you know, that whole, creating a timeless, classic environment,
but creating something that that consumer would want to come back to,
you know, that repeat.
You know, man, I've loved this product. It performed great.
It looked great.
You know, everybody that stumbled in, to my house and oh my God,
this looks incredible and made them feel really good about the purchase.
Right. And that's what we want.
Is that consumer coming back in, that consumer
also telling other people, hey, you know, here's where you need to go.
You know, number one, go to Prosource.
Number two, you know, look for engineered floors, right?
Yeah.
And so I think all of that is what our ultimate goal is.
You know, you're probably going to make
maybe three flooring purchases in a lifetime, maybe four.
And I'm not talking about rooms.
I'm talking about total flooring purchases.
You need that consumer, that customer to come back
and be excited about your product.
So you have another opportunity to, to help them.
Have you heard any pricing feedback on material costs from trade
pros that have helped engineered floors maintain that passionate passion
for being budget friendly? We always get, feedback on
pricing from a lot of different angles here.
Yeah, but yes, we listen very closely to
what's happening in the market, what's happening with the trade pros,
what they feel are our values, what they feel are not values.
And and that helps give us great direction and gives us a chance
to make sure that we are meeting market demands.
Absolutely.
So yes, very much so with craftsmanship and style
being so available and every engineered for selection offered at Prosource,
what can you say that would reassure any homeowner that might feel overwhelmed
during the home remodel?
Here's the whole thing with, a home remodel that you're like,
I understand experience, first firsthand.
It is overwhelming, right? Yeah.
It is something that you don't do very often.
And so when you do it, you know, it's disruptive.
I mean, there's no question.
But but I think, you know, with a trade pro being able to walk people
through all of those things so that once again, going back to the preparation,
part of that is preparing that homeowner
to be prepared, you know, for this type of the disruption,
because the more that you understand that, the more comfortable you are.
Maybe, you know, I shouldn't use comfort.
Maybe the more understanding you are.
Yeah. Of what happens.
And I think,
you know, staying with them on any delays, any updates, you know, things like that.
I think all of that helps alleviate
some of the anxiety they might feel through this process.
Is there anything in 2025, that you're looking forward to with Engineered Floors?
I know last time we spoke, we were focusing on 2024, so it's crazy
to think we're about to go into a new year.
And anything you're excited about that you want to share.
Yeah. Yeah. There there is something,
we, put
together last year with Prosource was,
our, new pure grain HD display,
which was, the mystically,
made and domestically sourced, one of the first of its kind and using,
state of the art equipment, digital print, 35 plank, repeat.
And believe it or not, Molly,
it's been a year since we've started in this category.
Making it right.
Not importing, but actually, manufacturing it.
We have learned a lot over that year.
We have some, new advancements that we're going to be bringing.
One is, we're going to have a, scratch warranty
on all the products to, we have, a new collection.
We've learned some things about, printing,
to create a bold and balanced look that even makes it
look more like a sand and finished our real realistic.
We've went into multiple species
now we have some pine, we have some hickory, we have ash.
We have all of these different species that we're featuring.
So from, a hard surface perspective,
we have some really, really cool things on the way.
And then on the carpet side, we've always had solution dyed,
but we've added some space dye to a few of those.
We actually have several products now that are 100% space dyed.
And our 50% space stamp, which adds even more color.
So you're going to see, some hints of flesh tones of blues
of all of these unique colors, some, emerald greens and greens
and all this stuff coming out and some of this, new, spacetime
that we're using, which creates just so it's subtle, understated.
But once again, it's that chameleon type effect.
But you can really see, broadening of the paintbrush on the palette of life,
right, with, with these new colors coming in, which I think is important.
And I think today people are looking for a little more color.
All right.
I mean, if you read the Vogue like I do every day,
there was an article that someone showed me out of Vogue
that talked about how color is progressing and wall to Wall
Street Journal,
talking about the, expansion of carpet again.
You know, not to say that it's going to dominate the House again, but
there is a flavor of consumers coming back
to, more, soft floor covering, in the home.
So my message, I guess, for everyone, that there's
going to be some really good opportunities, both hard surface from us,
some very advanced technology, products and,
and carpeting the same thing, some, some advancements in technology
that are helping us create some, new colors and new styles.
That's awesome to hear.
Well, we're looking forward to seeing it all unfold, in 2025.
And I want to thank you again for coming on today
and just speaking about Engineered Floors and sharing your expertise with us all.
Hey Molly, it was always great to see you.
Thank you so much for your time.
And, for all the ProSource members, hopefully we'll see you soon.
Thank you for joining us today on The ProSource Podcast.
Please like and subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast.
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check out our website at prosourcewholesale.com and visit
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