{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":6.2,"endTime":10.37,"body":"Welcome back to Demystifying Instructional Design, a podcast where I interview"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":10.37,"endTime":14.63,"body":"various instructional designers to figure out what instructional designers do."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":15.2,"endTime":17.27,"body":"I'm Rebecca Hogue, your podcast host."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":17.87,"endTime":21.02,"body":"In this episode, I continue from where we left off."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":21.26,"endTime":24.58,"body":"In episode one, where I'm interviewing Lance Eaton."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":26.73,"endTime":29.37,"body":"What are the biggest challenges you run into as an"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":29.37,"endTime":30.42,"body":"instructional designer?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":30.63,"endTime":35.91,"body":"There's the how I have the privilege and the luck"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":36.36,"endTime":39.24,"body":"to be working in something I absolutely love."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":39.84,"endTime":44.97,"body":"How do I make sure I don't burn out because"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":44.97,"endTime":48.48,"body":"it can be awfully hard not to be fully drinking"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":48.48,"endTime":51.06,"body":"from the firehose because there's always so much."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":51.06,"endTime":54.12,"body":"There's so many different opportunities, so many different projects you"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":54.12,"endTime":54.99,"body":"can take on."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":55.2,"endTime":57.24,"body":"This is my experience I've been able to take on"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":57.24,"endTime":57.48,"body":"like."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":58.65,"endTime":60.42,"body":"How do I pace myself at the buffet?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":61.53,"endTime":64.559,"body":"As somebody who really likes to eat and I think"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":64.559,"endTime":67.71,"body":"that is one realistic one, is that there's always so"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":67.71,"endTime":70.74,"body":"much to do, which is both job security and in"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":70.74,"endTime":76.29,"body":"certain frames can feel overwhelming or can lead to burnout."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":76.32,"endTime":79.44,"body":"I think about COVID and I know a lot of"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":79.44,"endTime":82.44,"body":"instructional designers who this was so much burnout for a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":82.44,"endTime":83.7,"body":"lot of different reasons."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":83.7,"endTime":85.56,"body":"One being there was so much to do and they"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":85.56,"endTime":88.32,"body":"felt so the need to have to try to do"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":88.38,"endTime":89.01,"body":"all of it."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":89.04,"endTime":91.98,"body":"And the advice in those contexts that I often gave"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":91.98,"endTime":95.16,"body":"was at the end of the day, particularly through the"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":95.16,"endTime":99.96,"body":"pandemic, we were doing important work, absolutely instructional designers within"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":99.96,"endTime":102.6,"body":"higher education are one of the unsung heroes within higher"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":102.6,"endTime":106.26,"body":"education that they did way more than their pay grade"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":106.77,"endTime":107.85,"body":"gives them credit for."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":107.88,"endTime":110.85,"body":"But yes, we were doing more, but in my context,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":110.85,"endTime":113.01,"body":"in what I reminded others of, as we were doing"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":113.01,"endTime":113.61,"body":"important work,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":113.61,"endTime":116.1,"body":"but nobody was going to die because I didn't answer"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":116.1,"endTime":116.67,"body":"an email."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":117.09,"endTime":119.55,"body":"And so I had to make sure for my own"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":119.55,"endTime":121.08,"body":"care to better serve everybody."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":121.83,"endTime":123.96,"body":"I needed to shut off at a certain time and"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":123.96,"endTime":124.98,"body":"I wouldn't allow myself."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":124.99,"endTime":129.539,"body":"So creating good boundaries for yourself to recognize, even if"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":129.539,"endTime":131.34,"body":"you love what you do, it doesn't mean you should"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":131.34,"endTime":133.83,"body":"be doing it all the time to the detriment of"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":133.83,"endTime":136.18,"body":"relationships, family health, et cetera."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":136.83,"endTime":141.03,"body":"I think it's also a big challenge is balancing that"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":141.03,"endTime":145.08,"body":"knowing what is the right thing to do, knowing what"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":145.08,"endTime":148.77,"body":"is the efficient thing to do and knowing what administration"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":148.77,"endTime":151.8,"body":"is going to expect you to do and balancing those"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":151.8,"endTime":153.81,"body":"because those can be three different targets or they can"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":153.81,"endTime":155.13,"body":"have shades of one another."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":155.67,"endTime":157.41,"body":"A great example is accessibility."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":157.68,"endTime":157.94,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":157.95,"endTime":161.28,"body":"There is what we really should be doing all across"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":161.28,"endTime":162.12,"body":"higher education."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":162.48,"endTime":164.37,"body":"And then there's what we're actually doing."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":164.88,"endTime":168.15,"body":"And then there's what administration may ask us to do"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":168.15,"endTime":170.68,"body":"in different ways and those don't all line up in"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":170.73,"endTime":171.05,"body":"yet."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":171.06,"endTime":173.85,"body":"We all know if we're putting video content out there"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":173.85,"endTime":179.13,"body":"without transcripts, if we are making these spaces inaccessible and"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":179.13,"endTime":182.91,"body":"then we're shocked that student, various students with disabilities have"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":182.91,"endTime":186.12,"body":"lower completion rates or don't show up to classes or"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":186.12,"endTime":188.97,"body":"spaces because you can't show up to a classroom."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":188.97,"endTime":191.19,"body":"If you don't have a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":191.19,"endTime":193.53,"body":"ramp and you're using a wheelchair like you just can't"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":193.59,"endTime":194.7,"body":"It is a big generalization,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":194.7,"endTime":197.28,"body":"but nobody seeks out instructional design when they are a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":197.28,"endTime":197.61,"body":"kid."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":197.61,"endTime":200.34,"body":"But they do find it and gravitate towards it because"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":200.34,"endTime":203.88,"body":"it resonates with their own experiences learning."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":204.24,"endTime":207.6,"body":"They're mostly not there just for a job, but because"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":207.6,"endTime":208.63,"body":"they're passionate about it."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":208.65,"endTime":211.44,"body":"And so when you're passionate about it and yet you"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":211.44,"endTime":215.4,"body":"run into things that you feel like challenge your professional"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":215.4,"endTime":219.45,"body":"being, that is a hard thing to to navigate."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":219.45,"endTime":221.73,"body":"That creates a lot of internal stress that there's not"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":221.73,"endTime":224.91,"body":"often really great outlets for besides being in community with"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":224.91,"endTime":227.52,"body":"other IDs and finding those ways to work around those"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":227.52,"endTime":227.91,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":228.54,"endTime":228.96,"body":"Mm-Hmm."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":229.17,"endTime":232.11,"body":"That's a really good point, and especially with just how"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":232.11,"endTime":233.79,"body":"much busier everyone got."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":233.98,"endTime":234.27,"body":"Yup."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":235.09,"endTime":236.02,"body":"Overnight,"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":236.04,"endTime":239.25,"body":"All of a sudden everyone got so busy, so quickly."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":240.09,"endTime":242.37,"body":"And it wasn't like we weren't busy when the pandemic"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":242.37,"endTime":242.73,"body":"started."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":242.75,"endTime":245.01,"body":"Like we were already doing more."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":245.04,"endTime":246.88,"body":"We were doing more with less, actually."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":246.9,"endTime":248.49,"body":"Peter Shea, he's a colleague."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":248.52,"endTime":253.2,"body":"He runs a fantastic Instructional Design in Higher Education Facebook"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":253.2,"endTime":253.5,"body":"group."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":253.59,"endTime":254.42,"body":"Anybody listening?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":254.43,"endTime":255.63,"body":"I strongly endorse it."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":255.63,"endTime":260.22,"body":"It's like 12000 instructional designers in Higher Ed in education."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":260.519,"endTime":262.92,"body":"And one of his quotes that I always think about"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":262.92,"endTime":266.16,"body":"is they're not asking us to do more with less."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":266.17,"endTime":267.93,"body":"They're asking us to do more with nothing."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":267.93,"endTime":270.48,"body":"And that was basically like the great pivot, as they"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":270.48,"endTime":272.34,"body":"say, is we were already doing more with less and"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":272.34,"endTime":273.71,"body":"then we were doing more with nothing."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":273.72,"endTime":276.84,"body":"And yes, that is an exhaustive space to be."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":277.5,"endTime":280.17,"body":"What skills do you find most useful in your work?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":280.8,"endTime":281.55,"body":"People skills."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":281.94,"endTime":282.96,"body":"Really."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":283.95,"endTime":286.95,"body":"I really think about my job as relational."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":287.01,"endTime":289.71,"body":"It stems from my teaching background, but really thinking about"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":289.71,"endTime":292.53,"body":"I can't go into meeting a faculty, even if I've"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":292.53,"endTime":295.11,"body":"been told this faculty is going to hate"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":295.11,"endTime":298.11,"body":"everything you say, no matter what I'm being told about"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":298.8,"endTime":303.81,"body":"how resistant or whatever negative connotation like can't go in"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":303.81,"endTime":304.08,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":304.08,"endTime":306.45,"body":"Holding on to that, I have to go in recognizing"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":306.75,"endTime":309.81,"body":"here's another human being and how do I connect with"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":309.81,"endTime":310.47,"body":"that person?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":310.71,"endTime":314.22,"body":"And how do we problem solve together why they're there?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":314.49,"endTime":316.41,"body":"Because sometimes they're there because they want to."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":316.8,"endTime":319.08,"body":"And those are those can be great, and sometimes they're"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":319.08,"endTime":322.26,"body":"there because they're told because their job, like they're told"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":322.26,"endTime":324.42,"body":"you have to do this or your job depends on"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":324.42,"endTime":324.69,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":325.53,"endTime":330.18,"body":"So being prepared to work with people knowing that they"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":330.18,"endTime":333.72,"body":"may be coming from an adversarial place for reasons beyond"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":333.72,"endTime":334.53,"body":"my control."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":335.25,"endTime":337.89,"body":"And so how do I see this person as a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":337.89,"endTime":340.86,"body":"human and how do I work with what their needs"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":340.86,"endTime":344.61,"body":"are, what their hopes are and find that common ground?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":344.73,"endTime":347.37,"body":"So a lot of it is reading the person trying"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":347.37,"endTime":349.71,"body":"to reassure the person that I'm here to help."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":349.71,"endTime":352.41,"body":"I'm not here to be a threat to them and"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":352.41,"endTime":355.53,"body":"I want them to succeed, even if it means we're"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":355.53,"endTime":357.99,"body":"taking these small steps or they're"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":358.06,"endTime":360.42,"body":"not going to do everything. Like here's one of those"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":360.84,"endTime":365.07,"body":"interesting challenges where I'm working with a faculty member and"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":365.07,"endTime":366.69,"body":"they have to go online."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":367.05,"endTime":369.9,"body":"I want to be smart about what conversations or what"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":369.9,"endTime":370.35,"body":"things do."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":370.35,"endTime":372.51,"body":"I really want to try to push or get through"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":372.75,"endTime":375.45,"body":"right now that need to be there in what might"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":375.45,"endTime":376.5,"body":"be a longer game."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":376.86,"endTime":379.47,"body":"And so this is where its, accessibility ends up becoming"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":379.47,"endTime":380.12,"body":"one of those."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":380.13,"endTime":382.53,"body":"If I can get them to do this piece with"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":382.53,"endTime":385.71,"body":"accessibility this time around, because if I try to do"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":385.71,"endTime":388.32,"body":"all of it at once, they're going to shut down."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":388.32,"endTime":390.75,"body":"Or I can tell as I'm getting close to the"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":390.75,"endTime":393.67,"body":"line with which they are like, this is getting overloaded,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":393.69,"endTime":395.85,"body":"like I'm seeing the reading the body language."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":395.97,"endTime":399.51,"body":"So I think really that paying attention and really"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":399.51,"endTime":402.9,"body":"thinking about and hearing, responding, being present with that other"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":402.9,"endTime":405.0,"body":"person is a really important skill."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":405.54,"endTime":408.15,"body":"Being self-directed, you're going to have a lot of different"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":408.15,"endTime":410.85,"body":"projects and some of them are very clearly time based."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":410.85,"endTime":413.07,"body":"And some of them are like, once you figure this"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":413.07,"endTime":417.06,"body":"out and that may be months before they come back"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":417.06,"endTime":417.7,"body":"and check in."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":417.72,"endTime":419.88,"body":"So thinking about how do you balance, they'll be"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":419.88,"endTime":422.88,"body":"constantly things at your attention and then they'll be bigger,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":422.88,"endTime":425.1,"body":"broader plans to be working on and how do you"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":425.13,"endTime":426.33,"body":"carve out that time?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":427.31,"endTime":430.76,"body":"Collaboration, I mentioned it before, but I'll reiterate, you can"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":430.76,"endTime":433.4,"body":"attempt to do this all by yourself, and that may"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":433.4,"endTime":434.54,"body":"be something you enjoy."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":434.63,"endTime":437.57,"body":"But I find time and again working with others."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":437.57,"endTime":440.3,"body":"Rather, that's other instructional designers or other people in the"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":440.3,"endTime":441.08,"body":"institution."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":441.44,"endTime":444.17,"body":"Finding who you're, who you can collaborate with."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":445.21,"endTime":446.86,"body":"It helps the work."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":447.34,"endTime":450.82,"body":"It creates a better network of connections throughout the school,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":451.33,"endTime":454.27,"body":"other people to call on for, I need some backup,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":454.27,"endTime":457.08,"body":"I need another set of eyes, I need some insight"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":457.09,"endTime":459.19,"body":"and it just makes it a richer experience."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":459.55,"endTime":462.49,"body":"Now have library friends at every school I've been at"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":462.49,"endTime":465.55,"body":"because but it's not just that, but here are people"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":465.55,"endTime":468.61,"body":"that I end up presenting at conferences with because we"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":468.61,"endTime":470.74,"body":"do this work together and then we reflect on it"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":470.74,"endTime":473.11,"body":"and say, Oh, I think other people should find out."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":473.14,"endTime":475.33,"body":"These are some interesting things that we're doing together."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":475.39,"endTime":478.99,"body":"So it's just it's wonderful positive feedback loops that"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":478.99,"endTime":481.36,"body":"I think is valuable to step into a space"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":481.36,"endTime":482.86,"body":"and to continue to nurture that."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":483.07,"endTime":487.42,"body":"Beyond that, I think it's not so much having specific"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":487.42,"endTime":491.65,"body":"tech tools, but having a disposition to look at them"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":491.65,"endTime":494.11,"body":"and just think about how might that be used in"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":494.11,"endTime":497.74,"body":"different settings and along with that is lateral thinking, I"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":497.74,"endTime":502.69,"body":"think particularly lateral thinking as you're encountering faculty from different"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":502.69,"endTime":506.29,"body":"disciplines and how might X be applied to Y?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":506.32,"endTime":510.25,"body":"Oh, here's this instructor doing this really interesting project within"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":510.25,"endTime":511.02,"body":"history."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":511.03,"endTime":514.3,"body":"Is there anything within that might be relevant to science?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":514.33,"endTime":516.219,"body":"Is there anything within that might be relevant or that"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":516.219,"endTime":518.95,"body":"we can draw upon or expand upon in this course"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":518.95,"endTime":521.63,"body":"or that in this discipline or that discipline?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":521.65,"endTime":523.69,"body":"I think, yeah, I think those would be the big"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":523.69,"endTime":524.62,"body":"ones that come to mind."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":525.79,"endTime":528.34,"body":"What do you wish you learned sooner?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":528.94,"endTime":532.9,"body":"I think one part is probably why I emphasize it"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":532.9,"endTime":536.15,"body":"was understanding the different types of instructional designer roles."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":536.17,"endTime":536.98,"body":"It's interesting."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":537.55,"endTime":540.58,"body":"I wish I knew I understood more."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":541.39,"endTime":544.36,"body":"And again, I speak this as somebody whose entire instructional"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":544.36,"endTime":546.52,"body":"design experience has been within higher ed."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":546.88,"endTime":551.89,"body":"I wish I understood the different structures of higher education"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":552.16,"endTime":552.69,"body":"more."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":553.36,"endTime":556.36,"body":"One example, and me and a colleague, Danielle Leek, are"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":556.36,"endTime":559.39,"body":"writing about this a little bit in an article on digital"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":559.39,"endTime":560.5,"body":"service learning."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":561.89,"endTime":566.93,"body":"Even something like where does the instructional department sit within"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":566.93,"endTime":567.89,"body":"the org chart?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":568.85,"endTime":571.61,"body":"Not something I would ever think of at the beginning."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":572.24,"endTime":575.84,"body":"Yet it does have implications for how,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":576.41,"endTime":579.95,"body":"not always, but again, there are trend lines to understand,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":579.95,"endTime":584.09,"body":"how instructional design has evolved at that institution."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":584.09,"endTime":587.04,"body":"If instructional design sits within, say IT."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":587.45,"endTime":591.87,"body":"It tells you that it probably evolved out of training."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":591.89,"endTime":593.72,"body":"Out of here, we've got this technology."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":593.72,"endTime":595.81,"body":"We've got to train folks on how to do it."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":596.66,"endTime":600.44,"body":"And if it's within I.T. because there are certain tendencies"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":600.44,"endTime":604.37,"body":"in it to be more conservative, to be more restrictive,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":604.37,"endTime":608.96,"body":"to have controls on things, rightfully so, because it is"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":608.96,"endTime":610.9,"body":"about information technology security."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":610.91,"endTime":615.02,"body":"But that also means there's a possibility for mindsets in"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":615.02,"endTime":620.93,"body":"that space to be less willing to try new things"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":620.93,"endTime":622.6,"body":"or to be as flexible."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":622.61,"endTime":624.92,"body":"And I've seen this around something like if your school"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":624.92,"endTime":628.46,"body":"is a Google institution, does your school allow you to"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":628.46,"endTime":629.63,"body":"create a YouTube channel?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":629.99,"endTime":633.23,"body":"And I've been at places where that became a big"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":633.23,"endTime":637.52,"body":"issue in contention because it did not want YouTube to"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":637.52,"endTime":640.13,"body":"be turned on because while there was lots of different"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":640.13,"endTime":642.74,"body":"reasons, none of which really seem to hold water because"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":642.74,"endTime":644.99,"body":"so many other schools are able to have their YouTube"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":644.99,"endTime":645.65,"body":"channel on."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":646.37,"endTime":650.93,"body":"But really just being aware that the position the role"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":650.93,"endTime":654.8,"body":"is situated in a particular place in the power structure."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":655.25,"endTime":658.7,"body":"And then there's a history that will influence that there"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":658.7,"endTime":662.45,"body":"versus if it emerged out of, say, the academic side."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":662.54,"endTime":664.85,"body":"They emerge out of the academic side and is attached"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":664.85,"endTime":666.17,"body":"to the Center for Teaching and Learning."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":666.17,"endTime":669.5,"body":"That tells you there's a better likelihood that there was"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":669.5,"endTime":673.64,"body":"a recognized need to help and support faculty around teaching"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":673.64,"endTime":677.18,"body":"and learning, which means their approaches, their views, their history"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":677.18,"endTime":681.47,"body":"with the institution or with faculty may be categorically different"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":681.95,"endTime":683.28,"body":"if it arose out of the library."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":683.33,"endTime":687.14,"body":"Very similarly, they came as a support system that's around"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":687.41,"endTime":689.24,"body":"knowledge, learning and openness."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":689.24,"endTime":693.26,"body":"So that might mean you see different approaches understanding those"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":693.26,"endTime":697.82,"body":"structures and how certain pockets of higher education work."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":697.82,"endTime":700.28,"body":"And I can say that at that point, I had"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":700.28,"endTime":702.65,"body":"already been teaching six years at different institutions."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":702.66,"endTime":705.68,"body":"I had several degrees and I still didn't really understand"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":705.68,"endTime":709.1,"body":"the technical as much of the political dynamics that work"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":709.1,"endTime":710.78,"body":"across any given institution."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":711.32,"endTime":713.81,"body":"And quite fascinating because I'm looking at it going, Yeah,"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":713.81,"endTime":715.85,"body":"I've taught at several different schools."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":715.85,"endTime":718.18,"body":"And how were they set up, right?"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":718.67,"endTime":720.86,"body":"Yeah, it totally gets you thinking about that."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":721.01,"endTime":721.4,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":721.55,"endTime":724.82,"body":"What advice would you give to new instructional designers?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":726.44,"endTime":730.07,"body":"I would again say think about what is the kind"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":730.07,"endTime":732.29,"body":"of work with instructional design do you want to"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":732.29,"endTime":735.45,"body":"do and where does that seem most relevant?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":735.47,"endTime":737.72,"body":"I've now been an instructional designer for 10 years."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":737.72,"endTime":740.54,"body":"I've worked my way up to director, I've done keynotes,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":740.6,"endTime":742.79,"body":"I've published papers."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":743.12,"endTime":745.67,"body":"If you asked me to, if I was offered a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":745.67,"endTime":751.67,"body":"job in corporate, in the corporate realm for an instructional"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":751.67,"endTime":752.63,"body":"design position."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":753.7,"endTime":755.98,"body":"I don't think I would be qualified, I don't think"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":755.98,"endTime":758.92,"body":"I would want it because I understand what my work"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":758.92,"endTime":759.04,"body":"is."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":759.04,"endTime":763.54,"body":"Instructional design is by and large, not what I see"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":764.08,"endTime":766.6,"body":"most of these and from what I hear from folks"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":766.6,"endTime":768.82,"body":"who are in the corporate world like they are, they're"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":768.82,"endTime":769.77,"body":"different beast."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":769.81,"endTime":770.62,"body":"And that's OK."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":770.72,"endTime":773.41,"body":"Like, I'm glad my friends and colleagues work in those"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":773.41,"endTime":776.12,"body":"spaces, but I know that's not for me."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":776.14,"endTime":780.55,"body":"So be thinking about or be willing to explore those"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":780.55,"endTime":783.22,"body":"different spaces to see which one feels right or to"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":783.22,"endTime":786.28,"body":"just understand what are the differences in how do they"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":786.28,"endTime":788.5,"body":"feel with the kind of work that you want to"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":788.5,"endTime":788.83,"body":"do?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":788.86,"endTime":791.56,"body":"I think that's one of probably the most important is"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":791.86,"endTime":794.17,"body":"navigating that piece of it."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":794.26,"endTime":797.07,"body":"The other would be always."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":797.72,"endTime":799.27,"body":"And again, this would be more for higher ed, but"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":799.27,"endTime":800.05,"body":"really anywhere."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":800.08,"endTime":802.18,"body":"Always try to be a continual learner."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":802.51,"endTime":805.33,"body":"I don't think we can do this job as well"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":805.33,"endTime":809.62,"body":"if we're not continuing to be exposed to different learning"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":809.62,"endTime":812.77,"body":"experiences to be exposed to what it means to be"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":812.77,"endTime":814.72,"body":"in these classrooms, in these structures."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":814.75,"endTime":817.51,"body":"For me, it also means teach whenever I can."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":817.75,"endTime":820.72,"body":"Yes, I think people can do this well with limited"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":820.72,"endTime":825.76,"body":"teaching background, but I also think it's a harder sell"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":825.76,"endTime":826.52,"body":"to faculty."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":826.54,"endTime":829.42,"body":"It's a harder sell for somebody who hasn't or has"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":829.42,"endTime":832.75,"body":"limited experience going in and teaching and working through these"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":832.75,"endTime":834.55,"body":"things that happen in real life."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":835.18,"endTime":838.39,"body":"It's hard for a expert in learning to come in"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":838.39,"endTime":840.46,"body":"and be like, Oh, I understand your situation, even though"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":840.46,"endTime":842.83,"body":"I've never been in it, we always, as human beings,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":842.83,"endTime":843.95,"body":"we always feel a little bit."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":843.97,"endTime":844.66,"body":"Do you, though?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":845.23,"endTime":847.48,"body":"And so the fact that I can say, Oh, I've"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":847.48,"endTime":849.61,"body":"tried this type of thing in my classroom or I"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":849.61,"endTime":851.71,"body":"tried this and it failed, but here's where I think"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":851.71,"endTime":852.49,"body":"it probably worked."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":852.52,"endTime":855.1,"body":"Oh, I've had students that have those problems, too."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":855.11,"endTime":856.51,"body":"It creates a lot of bond."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":856.51,"endTime":858.1,"body":"It creates a lot of common ground."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":858.1,"endTime":861.34,"body":"It eases a lot of tension because teaching is such"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":861.34,"endTime":864.34,"body":"an ego driven act, even in the best of circumstances"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":864.34,"endTime":867.19,"body":"where you're saying I'm going to lead a bunch of"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":867.19,"endTime":871.33,"body":"people and help them understand something on a deeper level"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":871.63,"endTime":874.27,"body":"that requires you to really feel like you can do"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":874.27,"endTime":874.6,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":874.93,"endTime":877.0,"body":"That requires a lot of investment in yourself."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":877.0,"endTime":881.53,"body":"And so it's really hard to place that both experiential"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":881.53,"endTime":885.82,"body":"and knowledge field that you have with yourself to have"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":885.82,"endTime":888.28,"body":"that and then hear somebody else that's never been in"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":888.28,"endTime":890.71,"body":"those spaces to be like, Oh, you're doing it wrong,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":891.07,"endTime":892.87,"body":"which isn't how they would word it, but that's how"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":892.87,"endTime":893.62,"body":"they're going to hear it."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":893.65,"endTime":895.54,"body":"So I would say that as well as try to"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":895.54,"endTime":898.21,"body":"continue to be a learner, try to continue to think"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":898.21,"endTime":900.22,"body":"about it, to have experiences in teaching."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":900.52,"endTime":900.89,"body":"Mm-Hmm."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":902.4,"endTime":904.47,"body":"Stay tuned for the final part of my interview with"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":904.47,"endTime":907.26,"body":"Lance, where he talks about what he looks for when"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":907.26,"endTime":908.91,"body":"hiring instructional designers."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":909.57,"endTime":913.08,"body":"You've been listening to Demystifying Instructional Design, a podcast where"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":913.08,"endTime":915.81,"body":"I interview instructional designers about what they do."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":916.44,"endTime":918.39,"body":"I'm Rebecca Hogue, your podcast host."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":919.02,"endTime":921.0,"body":"If you or someone you know might like to be"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":921.0,"endTime":924.87,"body":"a guest on demystifying instructional design, please complete the Be"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":924.87,"endTime":927.84,"body":"My Guest form available on demystifying instructional design dot com."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":927.84,"endTime":931.53,"body":"Show notes are posted as a blog post on"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":931.53,"endTime":933.09,"body":"demystifying instructional design dot com."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":934.05,"endTime":936.42,"body":"If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe or leave a"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":936.42,"endTime":938.31,"body":"comment in the show notes blog post."}]}