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Coming to you from crash studios
in Music City, USA, Nashville.

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This is the rich Redman show

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is up, folks. Yep. Your shock
jock is here rich Redmond it's

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time for the rich Redmond show
where we talk about all things

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music, motivation success. We
love these things. These things

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drive us they inspire us. It's a
reason to live really excited

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about today's guests originally
hailing from Saratoga, New York,

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calling Music City home for
eight plus years. Today's guests

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a fantastic all around drummer
was worked with Top X in New

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York City, Vegas in Nashville,
some of which include Mannheim

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steamroller a Miles Davis
tribute show that he leads it's

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his own band, and Tracy Lawrence
where we got to spend some time

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together. Today I'm talking
about our friend Brian, Zack.

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What's up, bud?

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Hey, how's it going?

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Boom, boom, boom. How's that for
a Hollywood intro?

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It was fantastic. I love it. I
need to have you with me

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everywhere I go.

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I you know what, it's, you know,
when I would do it. And of

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course, I'd be wearing some sort
of like, portable timpani. So I

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can just do that.

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There you go. Yeah, man, showbiz
baby.

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So this is great. You know, I
remember running into you or we,

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when was it we connected in
Vegas? Was it over a decade ago?

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Yeah. Would have been an old
friend of mine. Put me in touch

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with your wealth. He called me
one day and he said that you're

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in town. And he gave me your
number. Apparently he had known

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Danny young. Do you remember?
Danny? Yeah.

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Danny. Yeah. Danny. Yeah. Danny
ended up making the all those

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products. The bald man's stole
man stuff. Yes.

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And so he told me you were in
town for a day or two or

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whatever it was, and gave me
your number. And I just on a

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whim was like, Okay, I'll give
him a call. And see what

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happened. I had no idea what to
expect. Yeah, we hung in. And,

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and yeah, you you answered and
you said, come pick me up

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tomorrow morning. And we'll hang
and I'll give you a lesson and

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all this stuff. So we did. I
picked you up at the MGM. We

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drove over I had this at the
time I had this lock out studio,

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where I kept my drums. Yeah, we
went in there. And it was so

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funny. I remember it really like
it was yesterday, because we got

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in there. And you asked me to
start playing. And so I don't

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know, I was playing. I don't
even think I was playing the

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music. I was just grooving on
something. And I went straight

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through my snare drum head.
You're like, Yes. Which I never

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do that. Like that never happens
to me. You know, breaking a

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snare head is like a really
uncommon occurrence. In my

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world. I hit hard, but I just
don't break heads. I don't know

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what it is. No,

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I pit them. I don't I don't
break them back in the day when

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I was using ambassadors. Geez,
but I haven't seen. I haven't

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seen an ambassador in years.

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It was just the most bizarre
thing. And I remember just being

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shocked. And I looked up at you
and you're just laughing like,

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hysterically. And it we just
bonded. Like that's just a

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moment of like, Oh, yes, like
drummers just you know, this

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happens to I don't

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know what the heck I would have
showed you because you're such a

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great player. But maybe maybe it
had planted a little bit of germ

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in the back of your mind like
hey, man Music City. Yeah,

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I think so. I mean, we did a lot
of mostly talking, we talked

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about career stuff, and ya know,
trajectory and how to go about

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that kind of thing. Yeah. And
yeah, you know, I guess

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probably, it might have planted
a seed. I mean, there were there

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were various moments in my Vegas
years where I thought, Hmm, wow,

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those guys in Nashville are
really playing their butts off,

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you know, and I'd have to play
the I was playing in like a

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country covers band, and I have
to learn the songs. And you

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know, and I mean, I hadn't
typically listened to any of

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this stuff before. So it was all
new to me learning this music.

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And I loved it. You know, I
mean, we all do the ElDeen all

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the Rascal Flatts and, gosh, I
mean, there was just so much,

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you know, Dierks Bentley. And,
you know, and I'm just remember

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hearing this music in in, like,
remarking to myself, wow, like,

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this is real, like, these are
real musicians playing in a real

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studio still, you know, because
so much of the stuff you play in

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Vegas is all the Lady Gaga and
like the sort of copy and

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pastes, you know, tracks and
there's not really any humans on

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a lot of that stuff. And I've
just loved human playing, you

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know, so it really spoke to me
even back then.

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Well, I'm glad you ended up here
and I know another situation

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that kind of, like, planted a
seed. I mean, let's face it,

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this truly, I mean, there is
music happening in a lot of

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metropolitan areas, but this is
just seems to be a very robust

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city. You Every one is coming
and we still for the most part

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get together in the same room
and do stuff now your if you

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guys aren't watching this,
you're just listening. Brian is

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in this killer he's got his man
cave above the garage that he's

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converted into a beautiful
studio I'm in my man cave above

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my garage that I've converted
into a studio. And it's just

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kind of like a way of life and
that was traffic is getting a

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little bit worse and we're
becoming a real real city. We

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are sending files to each other
you know, it's more affordable

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and it cuts down on the the
travel time and all that kind of

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stuff. So your your room looks
fantastic. Now you're here eight

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years, but let's go back. You
studied with Gordon stout at

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Ithaca met Correct? That's
right. So the funny thing about

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Gordon is now I studied with
Alan Shin, who was a all around

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percussionist. And then when I
went to North Texas State, of

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course, Dr. Trauma, Ron Fink,
all around percussionist, and

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then of course, the great ed.
So, Henry oxido, mostly drumset

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players. But the thing about
Gordon Gordon is a world

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renowned. virtuosic, marimbas
Ste. Yes. And I can totally

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relate to your story because I
studied classical percussion,

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and I did all my Psycho I'll be
in my yellow after the rain and

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all the probably played all
sorts of stout pieces and right.

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But I was a drumset player.
Yeah, I mean, at the heart of

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it. Totally

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the same. Yeah. Right. And
always knew there would make no

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mistake there was I always knew
I'm a drumset player playing the

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marimba. And, you know, I didn't
have a natural ability on that

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instrument, like I did with a
drum set.

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Did you have piano training?
grown up a

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little in high school? Yeah,
that always helps. And I used to

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play like, My father played
piano. And so there was a piano

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in the house all the time. And I
would just kind of figure out

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songs by ear and stuff. So yeah,
yeah, right. But yeah, Gordon, I

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mean, I don't think I ever heard
Gordon play a wrong note ever in

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the four years that I studied at
Ithaca and it's

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easy to do on a four mallet
marimba piece because oh, man,

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just graze that note the wrong
way. Yeah,

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yeah, he's he's just amazing.
And his I mean, he could you put

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anything in front of him he
would just read it like like

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it's nothing you know, just like
he's reading the newspaper the

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breakfast you know, it's just
like, yeah, you It's

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interesting though. All the work
that goes into to mastering say

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like your Lee Howard Stevens or
your Gordon stout or your Keiko

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abi, and there's a new
generation of these stellar

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marimba seats that are that are
forming, you know, as we speak,

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there's two things you do you
teach. You write books, and then

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you have to go out and appear as
a soloist? Yeah. With orchestras

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and chambers. What a grind. I
mean, that is a tough life.

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Yeah, I guess so. I mean, unless
you start landing those those

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gigs, you know, playing
concertos and stuff with the

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with the symphonic orchestras. I
mean, that sounds like that

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could be a cool gig. You know,
but yeah, that's a tough world

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to break into. I bet. But
obviously,

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he was like, I know what you're
gonna do. Let's, let's teach you

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musicianship on this instrument.
Cuz there's so much you can

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learn from it. As far as like,
the touch and tone production in

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your hand. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

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All right. Yeah. I mean, much of
our lessons were about phrasing

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and just motion. And like, if
you had, for instance, if you

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had a repeating no of any kind,
it would never be played like

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static unless it was meant to be
static. But otherwise, you you

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know you, you're going somewhere
with that note, it's

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crescendoing today crescendoing
it's moving to someplace. And so

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I would take those lessons on
the marimba with Gordon and take

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them to my drumset in the
practice room to the drum set

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and apply all of that
musicianship to the drum set.

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You know, and think of just the
idea of like, sit down at the

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drum set and think of the drum
set as a marimba as a as a

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melodic instrument. Like, you
know, we're getting into some

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heavy concepts already here. You
know, that's, that's good.

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It's a weapon in the wrong
hands, the drumset it really is,

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for sure. And yeah, just, it's
just all about thinking in a

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musical way. You know, how do I
play in a musical way where

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people aren't holding their ears
like when you stop playing the

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black beats? Yeah,

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that's that that is the one
style that I just do not do. You

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know, I'm sure you're familiar
that but the thing is, is that

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if folks aren't familiar with
you, and I will say that go to

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your websites are great, very
robust website, the spelling of

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your last name, Zack CZ, a CH
what nationality is that? What

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are the roots that is Polish and
my father was 100% polish so I

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have

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you do that for OGIS at the
holidays and all that stuff?

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Sure. Yeah.

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Yeah. Kill bosses and pierogi
He's in. I mean,

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I always love the potatoes, the
potato.

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Oh man, potatoes and onions.
Yeah,

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yeah, I know where I'm coming
for the holidays. So anyways, if

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people go to your website they
can see you are you are in all

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around drumset artists so
there's no style really that you

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haven't covered because when you
were doing you've done cruise

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ships we'll get into that you've
done tons of tribute shows the

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Carole King's the Bee Gees, the
end where you have to be a

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reader. You do big band reading
you lead small groups. I see

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videos of you doing jazz
brunches. You do multi genre

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recording sessions and then then
you're on the road with us doing

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Tracy Lawrence. So you're like,
you know, bringing the drum

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parts of like teddy bears and
Lonnie Wilson and so you do

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everything and that's what I
love about your playing is that

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you are an all around stylist,
musician, and that's why you

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having lived in New York and
Vegas, perfect city, perfect

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city for you to be in tell us
about what happened after

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college.

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Well, after college, you know
you graduate with this

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performance degree and then you
go well, what now? You know, and

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it's you know, it's a good isn't
exactly a music industry Mecca.

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Yeah. There's a lot of
creativity there. And there's a

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lot of cool stuff happening in
the arts world, but to make

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money is nearly impossible. And
I sort of bumped around if that

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go for almost a year until a
friend of mine called me up one

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day and he said he was going
down to New York City to

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audition for this cruise ship
agency. And he was like, Do you

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want to come? And I didn't even
have to think about it. I was

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like, Yeah, I just, I mean, I
was just interested in a free

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trip to New York City. I didn't.
I wasn't really interested in

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working on the ship at all. I'm
so

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curious as to what this audition
was because sometimes, I have

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heard about guys doing auditions
over the phone where the

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contractor is like, Play me a
boss up play me a samba plenty

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to beat Lamia to force swing.
playing rugby

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once but it wasn't a cruise
ship. It was some other

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audition. I did that over the
phone once. Yeah, that was

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really awkward. Hilarious. But
no I so I went down to New York

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and I auditioned. In the moment
the audition was done. They were

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like, great. When can you leave?
And I was like, I didn't have a

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passport. Like I you know, I had
to break my lease for my

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apartment at the time. Like, you
did thing in order. Nothing.

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Yeah. But it was like, Okay,
give me a month to get all these

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things in order. And I'll do it.
And that was it. And a month

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later, I was out on the high
seas. Okay,

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so now, I'm jealous because
you're, you're a young man,

215
00:12:48,660 --> 00:12:51,450
you're probably what? 2223 24
years old, something like that.

216
00:12:51,450 --> 00:12:54,900
Right? And I was asked to do so
many cruise ship gigs. And I

217
00:12:54,900 --> 00:12:57,840
always managed to stay and I
never did. I never went and did

218
00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:02,730
it. I was like, oh my god seeing
all these Caribbean and European

219
00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,820
beautiful places. And I'm sure
just like you're single and then

220
00:13:05,820 --> 00:13:11,310
just the women and the nightlife
and, ah, had to be fun, man. It

221
00:13:11,310 --> 00:13:14,700
was fun. It was good fun for a
good while. I mean, a lot of it

222
00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:19,140
did depend on the band that you
were in who was in the band, you

223
00:13:19,140 --> 00:13:22,260
know who you made friends with?
Sort of your circle of friends.

224
00:13:22,260 --> 00:13:24,720
I mean, the status of the band,
because there's, there's

225
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,880
featured as they get treated a
little bit better, right?

226
00:13:26,910 --> 00:13:29,670
Yeah, yeah. Even like the
company that you were working

227
00:13:29,670 --> 00:13:34,710
for, you know, it varied pretty
greatly. At the time, I was with

228
00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:40,890
Holland America. And so we were
treated quite well I have to say

229
00:13:40,890 --> 00:13:45,510
in hindsight, the ship I was on
was an older ship. So the rooms

230
00:13:45,540 --> 00:13:49,380
the cabins were big. And we had
a couch and everything in there

231
00:13:49,410 --> 00:13:51,930
like that, you know, that would
count Yeah, with the newer

232
00:13:51,930 --> 00:13:56,940
ships. And you know, we could we
could walk anywhere in the

233
00:13:56,940 --> 00:14:01,620
passenger areas as long as you
were in the correct uniform. And

234
00:14:01,980 --> 00:14:04,890
you know, go to the bars drink
or you know, meet the passengers

235
00:14:04,890 --> 00:14:07,740
Yeah, I mean, it was very the
food we will get we could eat in

236
00:14:07,740 --> 00:14:10,980
the dining areas. So we didn't
have to eat like in the crew

237
00:14:10,980 --> 00:14:12,090
mass area at

238
00:14:12,090 --> 00:14:15,300
all because they're in the
bowels of the ship. Yeah, I

239
00:14:15,300 --> 00:14:20,040
mean, the the quality of in food
is quite different between the

240
00:14:20,999 --> 00:14:23,939
other is a crew guy give him the
swill. Yeah,

241
00:14:24,090 --> 00:14:26,610
I know. Yeah. And if you're out
there for like, you know, I

242
00:14:26,610 --> 00:14:28,650
mean, I was doing four month
contracts. I mean, they'll get

243
00:14:28,650 --> 00:14:30,540
old really quick, you know,
well,

244
00:14:30,539 --> 00:14:32,969
you could get off right and
explore like, oh, let's go get

245
00:14:32,969 --> 00:14:35,489
some conch fritters and come on.
Now, we

246
00:14:35,490 --> 00:14:39,600
had a lot of time off. Even on a
work day, we probably would work

247
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,870
about three or four hours a day
if that you know, on some days,

248
00:14:42,900 --> 00:14:47,130
I mean, so you could get off and
go see whatever port you were in

249
00:14:47,130 --> 00:14:51,030
and, you know, kind of I mean,
you you're in this sort of seven

250
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:54,270
day pattern. So you start to
learn what's where and what

251
00:14:54,270 --> 00:14:57,090
Island and where the good
beaches are versus the bad

252
00:14:57,090 --> 00:15:00,180
beaches and all that stuff and
you start to figure out those

253
00:15:00,180 --> 00:15:04,380
things out. And yeah, it was a
great time. I mean, the

254
00:15:04,380 --> 00:15:06,960
nightlife was fun. You know,
like you said, I mean, you're a

255
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:11,100
single guy, and you're just, you
know, out there just yucking it

256
00:15:11,100 --> 00:15:12,420
up with a bunch of other
singles.

257
00:15:13,469 --> 00:15:17,639
Didn't you eventually meet your
bride on the ship? Eventually?

258
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:22,740
Yes. It was the Yeah, the the
last contracts that both my wife

259
00:15:22,740 --> 00:15:30,300
and I did we met and started
dating. And just kind of by

260
00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:33,690
coincidence, we both had the
same sign off date of that

261
00:15:33,690 --> 00:15:38,490
contract. Wow. And I told her, I
said, you know, I'm moving to

262
00:15:38,490 --> 00:15:42,810
New York City. That was the
plan. And I don't know what your

263
00:15:42,810 --> 00:15:46,410
plan is. But it would be great.
If you know, you could come to

264
00:15:46,410 --> 00:15:52,410
New York also. Work out. Yeah.
So she about a few months later,

265
00:15:52,410 --> 00:15:55,290
she made it to New York, she got
a visitor's visa, because she's

266
00:15:55,290 --> 00:15:56,880
from the Philippines originally.

267
00:15:57,060 --> 00:15:59,400
Now, what was she doing? She had
to answer. She

268
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,360
was working at the front desk as
a receptionist, kind of that

269
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:08,760
that job. And we wouldn't have
met except that she was the

270
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:13,770
director of the Filipino crew
show, which my band had to play

271
00:16:13,830 --> 00:16:18,180
rhythm section four. So like
once every two weeks or

272
00:16:18,180 --> 00:16:21,300
something like that, we had to
play this show. And she was a

273
00:16:21,300 --> 00:16:27,000
director. And we would play the
show. And then after the show,

274
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,350
there'd be a big party in the in
the crew area for everyone in

275
00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:34,590
the show. And that was where we
met and started mangling. So

276
00:16:34,620 --> 00:16:39,660
mix the mix and mingle now, I
usually will listen to one other

277
00:16:39,660 --> 00:16:44,220
podcast to prep for my
interviews. And where was this?

278
00:16:44,250 --> 00:16:47,610
You did a gig I'm thinking where
you ended up playing the entire

279
00:16:47,610 --> 00:16:50,160
stage. And you're playing stands
and monitors and tables and

280
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:51,720
floors? And yes.

281
00:16:52,770 --> 00:16:54,450
Oh, gosh, we're going back?
Well, you're

282
00:16:54,449 --> 00:16:56,369
the guy, you were the guy that
you would like it's a it's a

283
00:16:56,369 --> 00:16:58,829
Krupa. thing, let's start on the
floor time and then work our way

284
00:16:58,829 --> 00:16:59,879
around the room. Yeah,

285
00:16:59,940 --> 00:17:04,620
it was literally the Sing, sing,
sing song. And the bit in the

286
00:17:04,620 --> 00:17:10,500
show was for the drummer to come
up, like stand up, like come

287
00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:13,650
around the drums, all while
playing the stands and the

288
00:17:13,650 --> 00:17:18,390
cymbals and whatever you could
reach, and then eventually make

289
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:24,270
your way down all the way to the
front edge of the stage, and put

290
00:17:24,270 --> 00:17:27,420
on a show with the drumsticks.
And like nothing else, there's

291
00:17:27,420 --> 00:17:29,850
nothing, there were two
monitors, there's like two wedge

292
00:17:29,850 --> 00:17:34,020
monitors down there. And that
was all I had to work with. And

293
00:17:34,020 --> 00:17:38,010
so I started getting into, like
figuring out little tricks that

294
00:17:38,010 --> 00:17:40,920
I could do with the sticks and
just try to put on a show of

295
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,260
some kind because honestly, I
mean, I was so out of my

296
00:17:43,260 --> 00:17:46,020
element, especially the first,
like couple times doing it,

297
00:17:46,020 --> 00:17:49,020
because, you know, the drum set
is your safety net. You know,

298
00:17:49,020 --> 00:17:51,870
it's like your safety, you feel
like you're invincible back

299
00:17:51,870 --> 00:17:55,350
there behind all these drums and
cymbals. The moment you leave

300
00:17:55,380 --> 00:17:59,910
the drums, you know, especially
for this 25 year old or whatever

301
00:17:59,910 --> 00:18:02,310
I was at the time, you know,
it's like, what do I do with my

302
00:18:02,310 --> 00:18:05,520
hands? What how do I stand? You
know, like, oh, my gosh, people

303
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,690
are looking at my legs. Like,
right, let's do eyewear, you

304
00:18:09,690 --> 00:18:13,260
know, ya know, it's a very
uncomfortable feeling when

305
00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:16,650
you're not used to that. And so

306
00:18:16,650 --> 00:18:19,170
yeah, so you benefited because
it brought you out of your shell

307
00:18:19,170 --> 00:18:22,200
just a little bit. And you had
to learn about Yeah,

308
00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:25,920
I guess so. I mean, I was, yeah.
And the singer that I was

309
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,910
working with, I mean, he was, he
was, he's a he's a trained

310
00:18:29,910 --> 00:18:34,890
actor. And, you know, he would
be on. I think he was in West

311
00:18:34,890 --> 00:18:38,820
End shows and stuff like that in
London. And so he would help me

312
00:18:38,850 --> 00:18:42,390
just with a blocking and just
always sort of give me helpful

313
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:46,080
hints about do this, do that
don't do that kind of thing. You

314
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:50,550
know, smile, make sure you
smile. And even if inside,

315
00:18:50,550 --> 00:18:54,390
you're like, all torn up, you
know, smile. Yeah. I mean, it

316
00:18:54,390 --> 00:18:58,710
goes a long way. You know? What
a cool thing, man. Yeah, it was.

317
00:18:58,710 --> 00:19:02,760
And I did that for a long time
then. Because he was a headliner

318
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:07,530
act on the cruise ships. I would
travel with him over 10 years, I

319
00:19:07,530 --> 00:19:10,890
did that gig with him while you
know, off and on the different

320
00:19:10,890 --> 00:19:13,980
ships and we would go to Europe.
I mean, we do the Mediterranean

321
00:19:13,980 --> 00:19:18,840
every summer, and I saw a lot of
cool places like that show.

322
00:19:19,020 --> 00:19:19,680
Yeah, man.

323
00:19:20,670 --> 00:19:23,040
You still have the bug to
continue to travel

324
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,920
internationally here. And there.
You just like I'm cool. I saw

325
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:26,400
the world.

326
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:31,020
I mean, I quite a bit. I'm cool.
You know, because I have seen a

327
00:19:31,020 --> 00:19:33,990
lot of stuff. Although funny.
You mentioned that this morning.

328
00:19:34,020 --> 00:19:41,970
I got a call to play a couple of
shows in Japan. Ah, yeah. So I'm

329
00:19:41,970 --> 00:19:45,300
excited about that. Because I
haven't been to Japan in gosh,

330
00:19:45,450 --> 00:19:47,670
maybe almost almost 20 years.

331
00:19:48,030 --> 00:19:51,570
I've seen everything but Tokyo
got to go to Tokyo.

332
00:19:51,780 --> 00:19:57,360
It's like, it is so wild. There.
It's like, I mean, it's it's

333
00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:01,140
fascinating and there's really
Nothing like it that I've

334
00:20:01,140 --> 00:20:06,120
experienced because you can't
really read the language. Unless

335
00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:09,630
there's something translated.
It's almost like being like on

336
00:20:09,630 --> 00:20:12,900
the moon or like an alien planet
or something. Because, you know,

337
00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:15,570
you're walking down the street.
You can't read any of the street

338
00:20:15,570 --> 00:20:18,180
signs. You don't know what
anything is at a hardware store

339
00:20:18,180 --> 00:20:23,250
or at a restaurant. I don't
know. You know, it's, it's wild.

340
00:20:23,310 --> 00:20:23,940
Yeah.

341
00:20:24,090 --> 00:20:27,840
It's such an incredibly unique
people. You know what I mean?

342
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:28,170
Yeah.

343
00:20:28,350 --> 00:20:33,180
But and especially, there's so
there's so great with musicians

344
00:20:33,180 --> 00:20:35,880
and artists. I mean, there's so
attentive, it's the some of the

345
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,730
best audiences I've ever
performed for ever. A lot of

346
00:20:38,730 --> 00:20:41,820
respect there for the arts. Oh,
man. I mean, we I played the

347
00:20:41,820 --> 00:20:45,660
blue note and Tokyo in Wow, did
hear a pin drop in that room.

348
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,360
They're listening. They're
listening. They're there to

349
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,260
listen and meet you afterwards.
Show you respect. And I mean,

350
00:20:52,260 --> 00:20:56,190
it's, it's wild. It's very
different. Yeah. Very cool.

351
00:20:56,820 --> 00:20:59,640
That is so so cool, buddy.
Incredible. This is this is my

352
00:20:59,940 --> 00:21:03,180
fourth year of getting this
card. This is my card carrying

353
00:21:03,180 --> 00:21:07,470
sag AFTRA. So the idea of like
being away from the drums, I was

354
00:21:07,470 --> 00:21:10,350
always a thing, like, and I do
something in life that is

355
00:21:10,350 --> 00:21:14,280
creative, where I am not buried
behind all this wood and plastic

356
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,460
and metal. And I just pushed
myself to do it. And I have a

357
00:21:17,460 --> 00:21:20,280
natural affinity for it. But I
could totally relate to that

358
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,760
where it's like, that is our
comfort zone back there. And

359
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,520
it's good to occasionally, you
know, get up and play a

360
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,610
tambourine and sing a background
vocal or jump on some conga

361
00:21:29,610 --> 00:21:32,190
drums. And you know what I mean?
Like, get out from that

362
00:21:32,250 --> 00:21:37,860
thing? Yeah. Yeah, it's true.
Sometimes I have like guitar or

363
00:21:37,860 --> 00:21:40,500
bass player envy, because these
guys can walk around with their

364
00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:43,800
mobile. Yeah. Right and move
their, you know, put one leg up

365
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,850
and you know, your back they're
like, I can't

366
00:21:47,850 --> 00:21:51,060
move. I wouldn't be dangerous.
If I played the bass, I would, I

367
00:21:51,060 --> 00:21:56,340
would work that crowd like it
would be criminal. So tell us

368
00:21:56,370 --> 00:21:59,160
what Bureau were you in, in New
York, any funny stories?

369
00:22:00,690 --> 00:22:04,320
I live. So I live in Queens. I
first started out in Kew

370
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,040
Gardens, which is like way out
there. And then eventually, my

371
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:12,180
wife and I, we moved to
Woodside. And we rode the seven

372
00:22:12,180 --> 00:22:16,530
train. I'm a huge New York Mets
fan. So we would go see the New

373
00:22:16,530 --> 00:22:19,140
York Mets at Shea Stadium.
Anytime that we could we didn't

374
00:22:19,140 --> 00:22:21,600
have a lot of money at the time.
So it was you know, it was a big

375
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,090
deal if we were going to the
game. But

376
00:22:24,780 --> 00:22:26,340
get that pretzel and hot dog.

377
00:22:26,550 --> 00:22:31,290
Oh man. I mean, yeah. I love
baseball. So that I mean, that

378
00:22:31,290 --> 00:22:34,410
was That wasn't why I moved to
Queens. It just happened to be

379
00:22:34,410 --> 00:22:37,950
an apartment. A friend of mine
had a, you know, a bedroom open

380
00:22:37,950 --> 00:22:41,310
up and an apartment. And that
was where I ended up, you know.

381
00:22:41,970 --> 00:22:46,410
But yeah, it was great. I mean,
New York, New York will humble

382
00:22:46,410 --> 00:22:47,040
you, man.

383
00:22:47,940 --> 00:22:52,470
Well, yeah, the city that never
sleeps, and it's just yeah.

384
00:22:52,950 --> 00:22:53,940
Everything.

385
00:22:54,150 --> 00:22:57,570
Like that's mundane about your
life is way more difficult.

386
00:22:57,570 --> 00:23:01,050
They're like doing laundry or
just parking your car.

387
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,530
It's a thing. Like, oh, grocery
shopping is a thing. Yes,

388
00:23:04,530 --> 00:23:08,100
parking is a thing. And I feel
like that in Los Angeles. It's

389
00:23:08,100 --> 00:23:10,740
like, just like, there's so many
people in these little boxes and

390
00:23:10,740 --> 00:23:14,430
the sun's beaming down on them.
But just just to get into the

391
00:23:14,430 --> 00:23:20,250
Vons parking lot and find a
space and just creeping along,

392
00:23:20,250 --> 00:23:24,540
you know, Sunset Boulevard,
bumper to bumper. It's a thing,

393
00:23:24,540 --> 00:23:25,470
man. Yes.

394
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:30,180
For real? Yeah. Yeah, it'll make
you grow old faster, I think.

395
00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:37,230
Yeah. I mean, I loved it, you
know, but eventually, you know,

396
00:23:37,230 --> 00:23:40,200
when you turn 30 years old, and
you start looking at life a

397
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,290
little bit differently, and you
start wanting different things.

398
00:23:45,060 --> 00:23:48,240
And you know, and you're looking
down the road, 1015 years and

399
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,030
trying to picture yourself,
where am I going to be at? You

400
00:23:51,030 --> 00:23:55,290
know, sometimes your priorities
change a little bit. I mean,

401
00:23:55,290 --> 00:23:58,650
sure, it asked me, Would I ever
leave New York while I was

402
00:23:58,650 --> 00:24:00,600
living there? I will probably
would have said No way man like

403
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,820
New York. You know, I'm a New
Yorker. You know, I'm tough,

404
00:24:02,820 --> 00:24:07,110
man. Yeah. But eventually, you
know, another opportunity comes

405
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:10,260
up and you go, Okay, this is
kind of cool. And this is at a

406
00:24:10,260 --> 00:24:14,610
good time. And so, you know,
Vegas here we come. And that was

407
00:24:14,610 --> 00:24:17,130
when I moved to Vegas. And it
was like, wow, sunshine, like

408
00:24:17,130 --> 00:24:19,140
320 days of the year. I do

409
00:24:19,140 --> 00:24:23,130
like the sunshine. I'm not crazy
about the 100 degrees at night

410
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:24,240
indulgence. But

411
00:24:25,170 --> 00:24:28,350
right now, he is intense there.

412
00:24:28,380 --> 00:24:32,340
I do spend a lot of time there
because my girl, Kara hers folk

413
00:24:32,340 --> 00:24:38,070
her folks are out an anthem.
Okay, you sure? Yep. You can see

414
00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:40,680
the city. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah,

415
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,460
it's a different climate. And
there's I mean, you know, it's

416
00:24:44,460 --> 00:24:47,610
just different. I mean, the sky
is way bigger in the west and

417
00:24:47,610 --> 00:24:51,600
there's mountains and you know,
snow atop mountains and stuff

418
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,340
and I mean, the highways are,
you know, huge and you know,

419
00:24:56,340 --> 00:24:58,740
really nice because there's not
any potholes because they don't

420
00:24:58,740 --> 00:25:01,650
have any winters out there. You
know, it's just a whole

421
00:25:01,650 --> 00:25:02,910
different thing out there. You
know, what

422
00:25:02,910 --> 00:25:05,520
was what was the gig that
brought you there? Well,

423
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,790
it wasn't really. I mean, it was
sort of a gig. It started out.

424
00:25:09,300 --> 00:25:12,690
It was a Christmas show that was
with that same singer that I was

425
00:25:12,690 --> 00:25:18,570
doing those ship contracts with.
And he had, he was living there

426
00:25:18,570 --> 00:25:22,680
at the time, and he knew he was
friends with Clint Holmes. All

427
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,220
right, the Clint Holmes was
doing a holiday show at the

428
00:25:26,220 --> 00:25:31,620
Sahara. And they got me in on
the gig. And that was my first

429
00:25:31,620 --> 00:25:34,500
like, literally, a couple of
days after moving there. I was

430
00:25:34,500 --> 00:25:38,490
in a show room at the Sahara,
playing with Clint Holmes.

431
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,970
So you did the you're one of the
many drummers have done Klinsky

432
00:25:42,420 --> 00:25:42,840
Oh,

433
00:25:42,930 --> 00:25:45,570
yeah, I guess you could say
that. Technically. I mean, I

434
00:25:45,570 --> 00:25:50,130
wasn't part of his, his run of
shows where he was, I think he

435
00:25:50,130 --> 00:25:53,010
was at the Flamingo. Maybe he
was he might he might have

436
00:25:53,010 --> 00:25:56,610
jumped around. He had a band
like a show. That was like 567

437
00:25:56,610 --> 00:26:00,150
nights a week. I don't know how,
like how often it was. So he had

438
00:26:00,150 --> 00:26:03,570
his guys that he would always
call upon, you know, the horn

439
00:26:03,570 --> 00:26:08,490
section and everything. This
This was after that had ended

440
00:26:08,490 --> 00:26:11,970
for him. And so he was at the
time, he was just kind of

441
00:26:11,970 --> 00:26:16,410
contracting shorter runs. So,
yeah.

442
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:19,440
So because I just had breakfast
with our pal Larry aberaman. Do

443
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,320
you know, Larry, he did Zumanity
for 18 years. Right. So I saw

444
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:27,600
the first night of Zumanity
opening night. Wow. Crazy. It

445
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,360
was crazy back in the day. And
we kept in touch over the years

446
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:31,950
fantastically. Of course, you've
lived here now.

447
00:26:32,730 --> 00:26:37,170
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We knew each
other a little bit in Vegas. I

448
00:26:37,170 --> 00:26:40,440
went to his senior recital, when
he was finishing it. I think it

449
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,880
was his graduate degree. You got
to add to UNLV. Yeah, yeah. And

450
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,000
so I knew he was playing. He's a
great player. And I did see him

451
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,060
play the show. Also, there's
humanity show, although you

452
00:26:51,060 --> 00:26:53,310
wouldn't really see him because
he was hidden away

453
00:26:53,310 --> 00:26:55,560
the whole entire show styles.
Lot of styles.

454
00:26:55,860 --> 00:27:01,170
Yeah, that was wild. He did that
show for a long time. And so

455
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,200
yeah, he's here now. And you
know, we since had coffee, I

456
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,840
don't know the months ago and
hooked up. And he's been

457
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,730
throwing me work even like,
that's perfect.

458
00:27:08,730 --> 00:27:12,420
Well, this, but he's that kind
of Larry's that guy like

459
00:27:12,420 --> 00:27:16,770
yourself. It's like you're cut
from the same cloth. And I

460
00:27:16,770 --> 00:27:19,500
consider myself the same way.
But no one would know it because

461
00:27:19,500 --> 00:27:21,900
everyone just says he's the bass
rock. Because we're on tour

462
00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:24,480
together. It's easy to see like,
that's what he does. Right. But

463
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,210
I mean, you guys can cover just
about anything in you. And you

464
00:27:27,210 --> 00:27:30,960
read, and you got a great
musical mind. So I could see how

465
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,640
you would throw each other work
would be me.

466
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,720
Yeah. Yeah. I kind of it kind of
fits. I think so. Yeah. About

467
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,250
being versatile and authentic in
whatever style that you're, you

468
00:27:41,250 --> 00:27:47,580
know, trying to perform. So.
Yeah, Larry's great. And I have

469
00:27:47,580 --> 00:27:50,760
so much respect for him. I mean,
he, he came to town and it was

470
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,130
just like, he just got thrown
right into the scene. He got

471
00:27:53,130 --> 00:27:57,510
busy fast. Yeah. Yeah. And
there's no wonder why. I mean,

472
00:27:57,780 --> 00:27:59,670
he's, you know, he

473
00:27:59,670 --> 00:28:02,250
can cover it. Well, you too. And
we were you know, we were doing

474
00:28:02,250 --> 00:28:06,390
the Tracy Lawrence thing
together. And I, we had a good

475
00:28:06,420 --> 00:28:08,700
what? 20? Something 30 shows?

476
00:28:09,150 --> 00:28:12,120
I don't know if it was that
much. Or maybe it was

477
00:28:12,150 --> 00:28:15,990
maybe it was 2015 to 20 shows
Maybe? Probably

478
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:18,810
less than that. Even maybe 10
show like that.

479
00:28:19,830 --> 00:28:25,020
Did we do we did we do the one
is the venue in the north? I

480
00:28:25,020 --> 00:28:27,930
want to say like eight shows I
do we do Guilford together New

481
00:28:27,930 --> 00:28:30,810
Hampshire where they where we
got to hang because we did two

482
00:28:30,810 --> 00:28:34,380
nights. Yes. And they've got the
they got a cigar bar. They got a

483
00:28:34,380 --> 00:28:37,020
Whiskey Bar. They got Oh, man
the whole backstage. firepits.

484
00:28:37,350 --> 00:28:39,030
That's impressive back there.
Yeah.

485
00:28:39,150 --> 00:28:40,470
The best hospitality.

486
00:28:40,770 --> 00:28:44,880
Best totally, totally. And, you
know, and you and I were having

487
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,850
fun because we were sitting on
in on each other's kids too.

488
00:28:48,030 --> 00:28:52,680
Yeah, I remember I got pictures
of me playing your kit. And and

489
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,400
I've some pictures and video of
you playing Mike it too. Yeah.

490
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,090
Fun. So yeah, obviously, you
know, our setups are just

491
00:29:00,090 --> 00:29:02,820
completely different from each
other. So we were both kind of

492
00:29:02,820 --> 00:29:05,220
like, how the hell do you play
this thing? Well, everybody,

493
00:29:05,220 --> 00:29:07,920
everybody sits down. What is
going on with a snare drum like,

494
00:29:07,950 --> 00:29:10,380
I don't know, man, I just set it
up that way the first time and I

495
00:29:10,380 --> 00:29:13,950
never changed it. That was 40
something years ago. So tell us

496
00:29:13,950 --> 00:29:16,890
about the traditional grip. I
know you wanted to talk about

497
00:29:16,890 --> 00:29:19,770
that. You know, I started
playing drums in 76. And my

498
00:29:19,770 --> 00:29:21,870
teacher was a rock drummer who
played match scripts. So

499
00:29:21,870 --> 00:29:25,650
literally, I never learned to
play traditional grip. I think

500
00:29:25,650 --> 00:29:27,990
it's so cool, especially when
you're playing you know, bumps,

501
00:29:28,020 --> 00:29:30,990
bumps, bumps, bang, and you get
the cigarette hanging out of

502
00:29:30,990 --> 00:29:33,270
your mouth. And it just got a
thing to it. Right.

503
00:29:34,350 --> 00:29:39,480
Yeah. I mean, you know, to be
honest, I grew up playing match

504
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:44,130
grip, also, all the way up into
my senior year of high school.

505
00:29:44,940 --> 00:29:49,410
And I had this great band
director, Peter Drew, if you're

506
00:29:49,410 --> 00:29:54,600
listening, you know and what's
up Peter? Yeah, he he brought he

507
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,600
would bring in guest artists
from time to time so I remember

508
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,010
he brought in Bob mincer once
and yeah Y'all got to play with

509
00:30:02,010 --> 00:30:06,510
him. But one one time he brought
in this guy named Jim Pietrzak.

510
00:30:07,620 --> 00:30:12,750
Now if you know that name, but
Jim used to teach at SUNY.

511
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,710
It was Sutter's, that was
Sutter's teacher. Yep. It was

512
00:30:16,740 --> 00:30:22,860
the northern one. What does it
not purchase? Yep, yeah. And so

513
00:30:22,860 --> 00:30:26,610
he came down and did like a
master class with the Jazz

514
00:30:26,610 --> 00:30:30,120
Ensemble. And then I stayed late
and had a little drum lesson

515
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,740
with him. Well, he's a Trad grip
player. And turns out I think he

516
00:30:34,740 --> 00:30:40,200
taught Dave Weckl in his early
years. And so yeah, there was

517
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:45,120
this lineage of like, you know,
some of his students and so I

518
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,480
had no interest in learning
traditional grip whatsoever at

519
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,990
the time, but he just insisted
on showing it to me showed me

520
00:30:51,990 --> 00:30:55,230
the grip, he showed me how it
worked. And I was kind of like,

521
00:30:55,230 --> 00:30:56,970
you know, I'm a senior in high
school, like, I'm ready to go to

522
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,730
music school. I'm like, I'm not
gonna start over with a new

523
00:30:59,730 --> 00:31:03,990
grip. Like, what are you doing?
Yeah, killing me here. No. But

524
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:09,510
funny enough, you know, as, as
the weeks after that lesson went

525
00:31:09,510 --> 00:31:13,710
by, I started just sort of
messing around with it at home.

526
00:31:14,190 --> 00:31:17,730
And like, on my lessons, just
doing my snare drum etudes and

527
00:31:17,730 --> 00:31:21,990
stuff. And it's, I just noticed
that it felt different. Like

528
00:31:21,990 --> 00:31:24,870
something about it, the stick
bounces different something it's

529
00:31:24,870 --> 00:31:28,800
like, and then I started to,
well, let's try this on the

530
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,730
drumset and see if that feels,
you know, and I mean, I remember

531
00:31:32,730 --> 00:31:36,630
feeling really awkward at first
and really like, Man, my left

532
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:40,380
hand is like a piece of meat
right now, you know, and I still

533
00:31:40,410 --> 00:31:43,830
can picture myself trying to hit
the left side crash cymbal with

534
00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:47,670
my left hand, and having to
like, I remember, like, being

535
00:31:47,670 --> 00:31:51,120
like, what do I do with my
elbow? Like, oh, okay, so if I

536
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:56,190
bring my elbow up like this,
it's easier. If I put this maybe

537
00:31:56,190 --> 00:31:59,310
if I put the symbol higher,
well, that works too. Okay? You

538
00:31:59,310 --> 00:32:02,160
know, or like hitting the hit
the symbol of my elbow comes

539
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,450
down like this, Oh, okay. You
know, all these little things

540
00:32:06,450 --> 00:32:11,580
that you start figuring out. And
it just started me on a journey

541
00:32:11,580 --> 00:32:15,300
with that, and I'll say this
simultaneously, you know, I'm,

542
00:32:15,390 --> 00:32:19,770
like I said, ready to go to
music school. I was, at the time

543
00:32:19,770 --> 00:32:23,550
just checking out all the great
jazz and fusion drummers of the

544
00:32:23,550 --> 00:32:28,350
time. So yes, Dave Weckl, Vinnie
Colaiuta, Steve Gadd chambers

545
00:32:28,620 --> 00:32:32,460
yeah Dennis chant, like all the
all the guys, you know, and

546
00:32:32,490 --> 00:32:36,480
going back further, a lot, you
know, into the sort of straight

547
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,810
ahead jazz world you know, Tony
Williams, DEC Jack vision net,

548
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:45,810
Max Roach, Elvin Jones, all
tragic grip players. So I'm

549
00:32:45,810 --> 00:32:51,270
like, Okay, there's something
here that I want to copy and

550
00:32:51,300 --> 00:32:56,430
become that Yeah. And so I just
stuck with it. And before you

551
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,420
know it, I just started playing
like that. Probably 90% of the

552
00:33:00,420 --> 00:33:00,900
time.

553
00:33:01,110 --> 00:33:02,970
It's great that you stuck with
it because sometimes when we're

554
00:33:02,970 --> 00:33:06,060
presented a situation like this
is incredibly awkward. Like me

555
00:33:06,060 --> 00:33:09,060
working on my acoustic guitar
chops. It'd be like my fat

556
00:33:09,060 --> 00:33:13,800
fingers. This isn't happening. I
my right hand. Like my right

557
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,950
hand is great because I can go
dang J gauging the left hand is

558
00:33:16,950 --> 00:33:17,250
just

559
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,550
thought and I'm like, I know
same. I'm like all cramping up

560
00:33:20,550 --> 00:33:22,350
and Yeah, same. Yeah, totally.

561
00:33:22,350 --> 00:33:25,410
But it's cool. Now did you do
you do a guy in Vegas? He was in

562
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,780
we were in school together.
We're in the two o'clock lab and

563
00:33:27,780 --> 00:33:31,890
together Un t he played with the
Frankie Valli show, or it was he

564
00:33:31,890 --> 00:33:35,280
played with was a Mamma Mia or
what's the Frankie Valli show

565
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,330
where the drummer's on stage
boys dirty boys. So Don Milolii

566
00:33:39,450 --> 00:33:43,740
I know I'm very well. So Don and
I were in college together and I

567
00:33:43,740 --> 00:33:46,560
forget what they used to call
him. He had a great nickname but

568
00:33:47,460 --> 00:33:51,660
dance, he's switching college to
traditional grip. I'm like you

569
00:33:51,660 --> 00:33:55,140
are brave. Do you have to
rebuild everything in it ended

570
00:33:55,140 --> 00:33:57,360
up working out great, you know,
he ended up sounding sounding

571
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,700
great with him. I was like, I
don't think I can do I don't

572
00:33:59,700 --> 00:34:02,580
think I can keep up with
everything I'm responsible for.

573
00:34:02,850 --> 00:34:05,040
And go back to square one.

574
00:34:05,250 --> 00:34:08,130
Well, I'll say this. I mean,
it's been a long journey with

575
00:34:08,130 --> 00:34:11,670
the track grip. I mean, there
are times periods of my life

576
00:34:11,670 --> 00:34:18,000
where I developed some pain and
some problems and really had to

577
00:34:18,930 --> 00:34:23,730
sort of take a few steps back
and re examine everything and my

578
00:34:23,730 --> 00:34:29,820
setup changed. There was a deep
into a double DVD that Steve

579
00:34:29,820 --> 00:34:35,400
Smith came out with I was would
have been like early 2000s. And

580
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,330
he talked about the grip and
like the motion and stuff and it

581
00:34:39,330 --> 00:34:43,200
really kind of showed me I was
like, oh, there was a few like

582
00:34:43,230 --> 00:34:46,680
key ingredients that I had
missed along the way. I mean

583
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:51,030
that the main thing that was the
hardest developed to develop was

584
00:34:51,030 --> 00:34:55,050
the power right this to getting
the same power as the match

585
00:34:55,050 --> 00:34:58,560
grip. It was the hardest thing
to develop and having the

586
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,780
endurance and the You know,

587
00:35:00,870 --> 00:35:03,870
did you ever get one of those
giant key Carla goiters in there

588
00:35:03,870 --> 00:35:06,120
in the in the corner like, wow,
you can name him

589
00:35:06,420 --> 00:35:09,420
to this day I yeah, I mean it's
you know, especially if I play

590
00:35:09,420 --> 00:35:13,830
like a lot of hours, you know?
Yeah, a little bit I have a good

591
00:35:13,830 --> 00:35:15,660
little you know, Callison there.

592
00:35:15,690 --> 00:35:19,110
He mean back in the day when we
were kind of in Dallas kind of

593
00:35:19,530 --> 00:35:22,380
coming up he was playing a group
called Dallas brass and electric

594
00:35:22,380 --> 00:35:27,030
he just swept and back in Utah.
He had this giant thing. Yeah,

595
00:35:27,060 --> 00:35:30,870
crazy. Yeah. And I I watched his
grip too. And I don't know how

596
00:35:30,870 --> 00:35:33,690
he does what he does, because he
does it different than I do. He

597
00:35:33,690 --> 00:35:39,420
holds the stick back further.
And my I owe us much more of a

598
00:35:39,420 --> 00:35:42,150
molar kind of a stroke where
it's, you know, the power is

599
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:45,840
coming from the shoulder and the
upper arm. Yeah, you're just

600
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,680
whipping it down. I don't see
him doing that as much. He's

601
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,530
much more like just straight up
and down. And he's using the

602
00:35:52,530 --> 00:35:56,490
thumb and very open handed like,
I don't I don't know how he does

603
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,760
also what's what's, it's
heartbreaking when I would watch

604
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,920
this happen and be like, how
does he do that? I can't do

605
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,560
that. It's never gonna work for
me. Whenever he plays it back,

606
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:09,570
me he plays for notes, he played
cetera, et cetera, et cetera,

607
00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:12,540
right? I mean, I mean, oh, my
god, pocket and the power and

608
00:36:12,540 --> 00:36:14,220
then be these four other notes,
posted

609
00:36:14,220 --> 00:36:16,950
notes. I know, I know. Well, and
that's the beauty of the tread

610
00:36:16,950 --> 00:36:20,460
grip is that the hand is under
the stick. So it's a lot easier

611
00:36:20,460 --> 00:36:22,890
to bounce the stick, really,
it's just you just kind of let

612
00:36:22,890 --> 00:36:26,310
it go. And it does what it's
gonna do, you know, whereas with

613
00:36:26,310 --> 00:36:29,250
the mask grip, your hand is over
the stick. And now you sort of

614
00:36:29,250 --> 00:36:33,540
have to almost manipulate it to
get four bounces like that, you

615
00:36:33,540 --> 00:36:38,310
know, it's a different
technique. But yeah, one is not

616
00:36:38,310 --> 00:36:41,100
better than the other, they're
just different and I still will

617
00:36:41,100 --> 00:36:44,550
switch back to match grip for
certain things. If I if I want

618
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:48,450
to get into a character like I
don't know, John Bonham or you

619
00:36:48,450 --> 00:36:52,380
know Keith Moon or something and
just think of players like that

620
00:36:52,380 --> 00:36:52,620
bring

621
00:36:52,620 --> 00:36:55,260
their essence out. Yeah, yeah,
you know, then

622
00:36:55,260 --> 00:36:58,770
I'll try then I will switch to
match I'll still use the butt

623
00:36:58,770 --> 00:37:02,670
end of the stick and just you
know, AC DC, you know, style.

624
00:37:03,690 --> 00:37:08,130
So who so who would have been
your your whole your holy grails

625
00:37:08,130 --> 00:37:11,970
your Mount Rushmore wars of
drumming heroes? Is it with the

626
00:37:11,970 --> 00:37:15,090
typical guys are there some guys
that we were like, Oh, that's

627
00:37:15,090 --> 00:37:16,170
interesting. That's pretty
unique.

628
00:37:16,740 --> 00:37:22,800
I always gravitated and still do
to the clean players. The studio

629
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:30,150
guys so gad was my first like,
oh my god, this guy is the best

630
00:37:30,180 --> 00:37:34,020
light and godly trees time.
Yeah, exactly. Now, have you met

631
00:37:34,050 --> 00:37:39,150
Steve? Steve got no I've never
know. I've seen him play twice

632
00:37:39,150 --> 00:37:42,450
with James Taylor. I've never
seen him up close even playing

633
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,690
you know, it's always been, you
know, at the arenas and stuff

634
00:37:45,690 --> 00:37:51,120
and maternal clock. Oh, he's
incredible. He's just to this

635
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:51,420
day.

636
00:37:51,450 --> 00:37:52,530
I mean, he's one of a kind.

637
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,370
He's at my gosh, he's just
killing it out there. You know?

638
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:02,160
Yeah. So he was the first one
that I really got into and I you

639
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,400
know, I had lesson lessons with
different instructors along the

640
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,700
way who showed me some of the
stuff that he was like the six

641
00:38:08,700 --> 00:38:11,640
stroke roll and the stuff that
he was into the random accuse

642
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:16,800
and the army and of that solo
that he would always play.

643
00:38:18,210 --> 00:38:19,590
Did you pick up the Gammons
book?

644
00:38:20,190 --> 00:38:23,730
I have it Yeah, it's it's
amazing. Oh my gosh, yeah, it's

645
00:38:23,730 --> 00:38:26,910
kicking my butt that thing. I
need to work more out of it.

646
00:38:26,910 --> 00:38:27,180
Because

647
00:38:27,180 --> 00:38:30,210
that's gonna be my my backstage
warmup this year. I was

648
00:38:30,210 --> 00:38:33,210
flam tap, just go slow. Like you
don't even need to play it fast.

649
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:36,480
Like just go slow. And it's
like, oh my word. I started like

650
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,880
seeing stuff come out of my
playing just like well, I don't

651
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:44,190
even mean for that to happen.
Awesome. But ya know, like, I

652
00:38:44,190 --> 00:38:46,770
always gravitated towards the
clean players like John J.

653
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:54,270
Robinson. I mean, you know,
obviously, Jeff Porcaro. You

654
00:38:54,270 --> 00:38:58,560
know weckl Vinnie, all those
main guys all those like guys

655
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:04,260
that are just super articulate.
I love Phil Collins growing up,

656
00:39:04,290 --> 00:39:08,190
you know, I'm a I'm a child of
the 80s. So, anything with Phil,

657
00:39:08,340 --> 00:39:12,570
I can instantly recognize Phil
Collins playing like, how does

658
00:39:12,570 --> 00:39:17,010
he do that? Like how, how does
he play a back beat groove? Like

659
00:39:17,010 --> 00:39:19,380
nobody else can? I just don't
know.

660
00:39:19,830 --> 00:39:23,220
What's that? What's that song
from Genesis or his solo career?

661
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,610
I forget but it's there's a horn
section. And there's a handclap

662
00:39:26,610 --> 00:39:27,270
on beat three.

663
00:39:29,070 --> 00:39:34,050
And that was a Genesis song.
Yeah, what did the name of that

664
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:41,160
No, no, no, no. No reply. No
reply at all with the horn

665
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,050
section. Fantastic. Man. I

666
00:39:43,050 --> 00:39:47,490
have studied that track and
still do and that's a good one.

667
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,660
Try to make it feel like that is
all my gosh, yes.

668
00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:55,650
So definitely the clean players
me as well. Because I had a

669
00:39:55,650 --> 00:39:58,650
studio mentality is like how can
I get in that room with all

670
00:39:58,650 --> 00:40:00,900
those microphones and create
some think that'll last forever

671
00:40:00,900 --> 00:40:04,200
that people were in elevators,
and supermarkets. Okay, you

672
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,230
gotta learn how to play clean.
But also, interestingly, in

673
00:40:07,230 --> 00:40:11,700
another way equally beautiful is
I wouldn't consider Keith Moon

674
00:40:11,700 --> 00:40:14,940
clean at all, but it is so

675
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,830
perfect. Yeah, in a way. It's
very precise. You're

676
00:40:19,830 --> 00:40:25,170
just like Zig who is not? Right.
bleen but it's perfect. Richie

677
00:40:25,170 --> 00:40:27,960
Hayward was not, but perfect.
But yeah.

678
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,220
Even Ringo. I mean, yeah, I
agree. Charlie Watts, you know?

679
00:40:32,220 --> 00:40:38,520
Sure. I mean, yes. Those those
players that you mentioned, have

680
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:43,350
that swagger. You know, but But
you wouldn't put Charlie Watts

681
00:40:43,380 --> 00:40:49,080
in on a click track with like, a
studio band. You know, I don't

682
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,670
think anyway. No, I don't think
that ever happened. You know?

683
00:40:56,460 --> 00:40:59,310
Don't know, I mean, but then you
can go to Ronnie Scott's with

684
00:40:59,310 --> 00:41:01,800
his band and play springs bang.
Right. Well,

685
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,580
and that's what he would write.
I mean, that was really that was

686
00:41:05,580 --> 00:41:09,570
what he really wanted to do.
From what I know, Oh, yeah.

687
00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:12,900
Now what about what's your jazz
Holy Grail? Mount Rushmore?

688
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:13,410
Gosh,

689
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:17,580
I mean, you know, when I was
young, I mean I was just being

690
00:41:17,580 --> 00:41:21,930
fed from my I come from a
musical family so my father my

691
00:41:21,930 --> 00:41:26,670
uncle's my grandfather, you
know, multiple generations. So

692
00:41:27,210 --> 00:41:31,140
all of my family members and
friends of theirs were feeding

693
00:41:31,140 --> 00:41:35,940
me all sorts of records to check
out James Brown tower power

694
00:41:36,030 --> 00:41:39,390
earth when a fire Sly and the
Family Stone blood sweat and

695
00:41:39,390 --> 00:41:46,380
tears shot day early Whitney
Houston you know all the like

696
00:41:46,380 --> 00:41:51,510
the you know, Luther Vandross,
Rose, anything jazz r&b, soul,

697
00:41:51,510 --> 00:41:55,080
Aretha Franklin? Gosh, Anejo
King Curtis,

698
00:41:55,110 --> 00:41:56,610
I got my reads a shirt on baby.

699
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:01,920
Bam. There you go. Yeah. Nice. I
love it. You know, I grew up on

700
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,430
all of that stuff. And I forget
the question now.

701
00:42:05,460 --> 00:42:10,230
But oh, yeah. Who is your jazz?
Oh, yeah. Now. So,

702
00:42:10,260 --> 00:42:13,140
you know, I was just more and
more getting into jazz,

703
00:42:13,140 --> 00:42:16,980
especially my one uncle, who
went to Eastman as a piano

704
00:42:16,980 --> 00:42:20,280
player. And, you know, he makes
his living as a as a pianist.

705
00:42:20,310 --> 00:42:25,110
Oh, wow. So he would, he would
come home from LA and have this

706
00:42:25,110 --> 00:42:29,460
pile of CDs like for me to check
out. And it would be a lot of it

707
00:42:29,460 --> 00:42:32,250
would be a lot of pretty
hardcore, you know, straight

708
00:42:32,250 --> 00:42:35,820
ahead jazz stuff. That you know,
at the time, I would never have

709
00:42:35,820 --> 00:42:39,750
heard of, you know, a lot of old
Herbie stuff old miles records.

710
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,100
Gosh, all sorts of stuff. I
mean, you know, stuff with Elvin

711
00:42:44,100 --> 00:42:48,090
Jones on it. Art Blakey, I mean,
just on and on and on, you know,

712
00:42:48,090 --> 00:42:51,270
so that was how I started
getting into and just kind of,

713
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:56,760
it was sort of bending my ear in
that direction. To start hearing

714
00:42:56,790 --> 00:43:01,770
straight ahead, jazz and just
getting used to that sound, you

715
00:43:01,770 --> 00:43:04,860
know, which was a different,
completely different style

716
00:43:04,860 --> 00:43:10,410
playing, obviously. And then you
go to go to music school, and

717
00:43:10,410 --> 00:43:13,230
you want to get into the Jazz
Ensemble and the big band and

718
00:43:13,230 --> 00:43:15,630
you want to you know, and you're
playing with your friends and

719
00:43:15,630 --> 00:43:19,560
you're planning and combos and
booking gigs at the local cafes

720
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,710
and stuff, like all the stuff
all you just learning tunes, and

721
00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:27,330
you know, playing stuff out of
the real book, and you know,

722
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,080
you're just, you're just
learning, learning, learning all

723
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:37,680
the while and, and eventually, I
heard Bill Stewart, the drummer

724
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:45,360
Bill Stewart play match, on a
bill Shar lap record. And it was

725
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:51,510
it was just a moment of like,
oh, my, that's how I want to

726
00:43:51,510 --> 00:43:58,440
sound like, again, super clean,
like his jazz playing is some of

727
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,340
the cleanest you know, and the
way he executes his ideas and

728
00:44:02,790 --> 00:44:06,570
he's so musical and his phrasing
and the way he'll he'll take a

729
00:44:06,570 --> 00:44:10,680
motif and he'll like, expand it
and turn it upside down and play

730
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:16,620
it backwards and invert it and
Oh, my I just I just connected

731
00:44:16,620 --> 00:44:19,470
with his playing on such a level
and then just, you know, just

732
00:44:19,470 --> 00:44:23,370
the sound of his drums. So clean
and crisp, the sound of his ride

733
00:44:23,370 --> 00:44:28,320
cymbal and like the feel that he
got on his ride cymbal, when you

734
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,630
know he'd be playing ride and
not even playing the hi hat and

735
00:44:30,630 --> 00:44:34,110
to enforce just the right thing.
Second ng deck, you know, it was

736
00:44:34,140 --> 00:44:37,890
just very open, very modern and
contemporary. I just fell in

737
00:44:37,890 --> 00:44:42,510
love with Bill store. And I just
had to learn how to play like

738
00:44:42,510 --> 00:44:46,440
him and I went down the rabbit
hole with him. And I like how

739
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:46,680
you

740
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,230
own the fact that you're just
like, look, I'm an all around

741
00:44:49,230 --> 00:44:52,230
musician. I'm an all around
drummer. I'm also I'm a jazz

742
00:44:52,230 --> 00:44:57,450
drummer like you will just when
I moved here in 97, the Tommy

743
00:44:57,450 --> 00:45:03,150
wells guy was a soul, he said
Don't say the word jazz. Yeah.

744
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,270
I've had conversations with
other musicians in Nashville

745
00:45:06,270 --> 00:45:09,120
about that one quite recently.
Actually,

746
00:45:09,180 --> 00:45:12,000
I like how you just own it.
You're like, look at I do this,

747
00:45:12,060 --> 00:45:13,170
and I do that.

748
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,680
Well, and I think that if you do
things authentically that it

749
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:22,860
won't count against you, you
know, maybe some people from the

750
00:45:22,860 --> 00:45:27,390
outside looking in, don't agree
or don't just don't know. Or

751
00:45:27,390 --> 00:45:31,020
they maybe they just kind of,
you know, write you off.

752
00:45:31,020 --> 00:45:36,420
Hopefully not. No, yeah. I hope.
I hope not, you know, but like

753
00:45:36,420 --> 00:45:40,320
it or not, it's part of who I am
as a musician. And I love that

754
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,140
music. And I don't want it to
die. And I think there's a

755
00:45:43,140 --> 00:45:46,320
healthy jazz community here in
Nashville. I mean, I'll say

756
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:50,340
this. When I when I decided to
move to Nashville. I didn't

757
00:45:50,340 --> 00:45:52,530
think I'd ever played another
jazz gig again.

758
00:45:53,310 --> 00:45:56,520
I mean, I let some of it atrophy
a little bit. I think that the

759
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,880
culture of having Rudy's jazz
room has really helped the

760
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:00,450
scene.

761
00:46:00,690 --> 00:46:05,340
Absolutely. That is a goldmine
of it place, please, if you come

762
00:46:05,340 --> 00:46:07,560
to Nashville, go to Rudy's jazz
room, and you

763
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,960
got to go to Rudy's. And then
the other place, I say that

764
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,140
everyone has you got to go to
Robert's western world because

765
00:46:13,140 --> 00:46:18,330
they the 1950s. country with the
pearl snaps and the whole thing.

766
00:46:18,660 --> 00:46:19,140
Yeah,

767
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:26,520
I agree on both levels. Yeah.
You know, well, you know, little

768
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,790
did I know in Nashville, there's
a healthy jazz scene there. But

769
00:46:29,790 --> 00:46:32,730
I did not expect that when I
moved here. And I mean, I moved

770
00:46:32,730 --> 00:46:35,640
here sight unseen. I mean, I
just came here and I was like,

771
00:46:36,270 --> 00:46:38,730
I'm moving to Nashville. I've
never been there. I don't know

772
00:46:38,730 --> 00:46:42,480
anybody there hardly at all. I'm
just gonna go there. Because

773
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,370
somebody told me that I would do
well, there

774
00:46:44,970 --> 00:46:50,100
was that Christie mana and Bill
Warner was Yeah. Now Bill. Now

775
00:46:50,130 --> 00:46:52,950
for those that aren't in the
know. Like Christy's award

776
00:46:52,950 --> 00:46:55,050
winning songwriter and her
husband Bill. I've been done a

777
00:46:55,050 --> 00:46:58,350
million sessions for Bill
probably until he met you. But

778
00:46:58,350 --> 00:47:01,380
he was like, Hey, you gotta you
gotta. You got to check this kid

779
00:47:01,380 --> 00:47:03,900
out. He's doing a great job with
this tribute show we're doing I

780
00:47:03,900 --> 00:47:06,270
keep telling him to move to
town. And I'm glad you did it

781
00:47:06,270 --> 00:47:07,500
been? Yeah,

782
00:47:07,530 --> 00:47:10,320
yeah. It was a big step. You
know, and I mean, because I was

783
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:14,130
pretty well established in
Vegas. And, you know, but I just

784
00:47:14,130 --> 00:47:18,420
wasn't happy there anymore. And
you know, and it made sense for

785
00:47:18,780 --> 00:47:22,080
my family as well. My son was
born at that point, he was

786
00:47:22,530 --> 00:47:25,950
pretty much ready to go to
kindergarten in the schools in

787
00:47:25,950 --> 00:47:27,480
Vegas. I don't

788
00:47:27,660 --> 00:47:29,700
think so Barry was saying and
Larry is saying they're a little

789
00:47:29,700 --> 00:47:31,560
rough. Yeah. So

790
00:47:31,590 --> 00:47:34,980
you know, that was a big part of
it as well. So it just made

791
00:47:34,980 --> 00:47:37,500
sense for all three of us,
really, my wife and my son and

792
00:47:37,500 --> 00:47:41,760
I, for me, you know, career
wise, I had sort of hit the

793
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:45,900
glass ceiling. I had already had
my own show for a year, I was

794
00:47:45,900 --> 00:47:49,710
subbing in on any number of
shows on any given week, up and

795
00:47:49,710 --> 00:47:54,300
down the strip. I had my own
jazz trio. I had my own rock

796
00:47:54,300 --> 00:47:58,080
band that was like a cover band.
We were playing the lounges. I

797
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,130
was doing tribute shows I was I
was just all over. I mean, I was

798
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,490
my head was spinning. I mean, I
had three kits at any property

799
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,010
at any, you know, I remember
one,

800
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:10,980
that's a bonafide business. You
are a small business owner

801
00:48:10,980 --> 00:48:13,590
entrepreneur, and it was
working. But man,

802
00:48:13,950 --> 00:48:16,590
yes, I was burning out is what
was really happening. Yeah, that

803
00:48:16,590 --> 00:48:20,940
can happen. Because Because I
found there to be a lot of sort

804
00:48:20,940 --> 00:48:25,440
of mediocrity in the
musicianship. There in Vegas,

805
00:48:25,470 --> 00:48:30,660
there's a lot of like, attitude
about, like, just do the bare

806
00:48:30,660 --> 00:48:33,660
minimum so that we don't get
fired. Kind of a thing. Yeah.

807
00:48:33,900 --> 00:48:37,890
And I don't like that music is
more to me than that I have to

808
00:48:37,890 --> 00:48:43,110
have it has to be special for
me. And so, you know, it was

809
00:48:43,110 --> 00:48:47,730
really kind of rubbed me the
wrong way, in a lot of ways. And

810
00:48:47,730 --> 00:48:52,560
I just, you know, again, looking
down the line, 1015 years. I'm

811
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:56,100
like, What's, what else is here?
For me? We're all where am I

812
00:48:56,100 --> 00:48:58,590
going to be in 10 years?
Probably going to be doing the

813
00:48:58,590 --> 00:49:02,760
same thing I'm doing right now.
And I want more than that. Yeah,

814
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:02,970
that's

815
00:49:02,970 --> 00:49:06,180
that was my Dallas. Yeah,
laundry. I was like, I think

816
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,230
industry you have to go where
there's more stuff happening

817
00:49:10,230 --> 00:49:14,100
where there's a bigger pond with
bigger fish swimming in that

818
00:49:14,100 --> 00:49:17,640
pond. Yeah. Yeah. And so and
that's how you keep learning to

819
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:21,390
I mean, oh my gosh, the leaps
and bounds that I've grown since

820
00:49:21,420 --> 00:49:25,590
you know, I moved here. Oh, my
gosh, you know, just just

821
00:49:25,590 --> 00:49:28,860
learning the Nashville Number
System, which I did that like

822
00:49:28,860 --> 00:49:32,100
the first week I moved to
Nashville, knowing full well

823
00:49:32,100 --> 00:49:34,440
that this is going to happen one
day, I'm gonna be you know, I'll

824
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,450
be on a session and somebody's
gonna hand me a chart and I'm

825
00:49:36,450 --> 00:49:39,240
gonna go What the heck is this?
You know, I didn't want that.

826
00:49:39,390 --> 00:49:39,660
Hey, it's

827
00:49:39,660 --> 00:49:42,660
glad you checked it out in
advance. I did not I learned on

828
00:49:42,660 --> 00:49:43,800
the go

829
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,070
scary. Oh, my gosh, I would have
been pooping my pants. I mean,

830
00:49:47,250 --> 00:49:53,190
yeah. But you know, I learned
it. And you know, I realized, I

831
00:49:53,190 --> 00:49:57,990
mean, I said to myself, like,
where has this been my whole

832
00:49:57,990 --> 00:50:01,530
life. I could have used this In
all the years that I've been

833
00:50:01,530 --> 00:50:04,920
playing in my career, why don't
they teach this in the music

834
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:05,460
schools?

835
00:50:05,490 --> 00:50:08,520
So Jim Riley says songs ready
made easy. He's like everyone in

836
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:09,870
the world should be using the
system.

837
00:50:10,230 --> 00:50:13,050
They should be teaching this at
every music school, at least at

838
00:50:13,050 --> 00:50:16,470
least in the drumset world and,
you know, rhythm section world.

839
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,940
Because I remember looking at,
you know, making old charts, and

840
00:50:20,940 --> 00:50:24,900
it's like, you know, Count 16
bars, and what's the Count 16

841
00:50:24,900 --> 00:50:28,560
bars on a gig? I don't, you
know, makes no sense to me. And

842
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,740
you're not thinking in a musical
way when you're counting to 16?

843
00:50:32,070 --> 00:50:32,220
You

844
00:50:32,220 --> 00:50:35,820
know, because like, well, you
know, I do I do like drum phrase

845
00:50:35,820 --> 00:50:38,220
charts in the sense that if
they're detailed enough, because

846
00:50:38,490 --> 00:50:40,410
most likely, if it's a 16 bar
phrase, you're gonna have to

847
00:50:40,410 --> 00:50:42,960
break it up into eight and
eight, because maybe the kick

848
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,060
drum pattern will change, or
maybe something, a voice will

849
00:50:45,060 --> 00:50:45,600
change your

850
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,020
transcription. That's one thing,
you know, I'm just talking about

851
00:50:49,020 --> 00:50:51,630
like, sketch, you know, skeleton
charts where you're just like,

852
00:50:51,630 --> 00:50:53,850
you don't even know the song.
And you're like, Well, I know,

853
00:50:53,850 --> 00:50:57,090
the bridge is eight bars, okay.
You know, that kind of thing,

854
00:50:57,090 --> 00:51:00,360
where you just kind of like
throwing music together for

855
00:51:00,390 --> 00:51:03,690
some, you know, show that you're
playing tomorrow night, you

856
00:51:03,690 --> 00:51:08,100
know, and there's 45 Songs to
Learn, you know? Yeah. With the

857
00:51:08,100 --> 00:51:11,940
number system, it's just, we
just what makes way more sense.

858
00:51:11,970 --> 00:51:15,720
And I just remember thinking
like, wow, this really would

859
00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:22,050
have been helpful to know, like,
all those years ago. Yeah. So it

860
00:51:22,050 --> 00:51:26,160
is, it is incredibly efficient.
And it does make what we do in

861
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:30,120
Nashville, and helps that
efficiency, because, you know,

862
00:51:30,630 --> 00:51:36,180
we are cranking out songs. Yeah.
Yeah. You know? Yeah,

863
00:51:36,930 --> 00:51:41,040
that's right. And I mean, just,
you know, in the different bands

864
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,560
and ensembles that I'm playing
with right now. I mean, I still

865
00:51:43,590 --> 00:51:45,870
I'm writing I wrote a chart last
night, you know, yeah.

866
00:51:46,500 --> 00:51:49,440
No, oh, he's writing a chart.
Hey, tell us about the Mannheim

867
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:53,040
steamroller thing, because is
it? I think that you do that

868
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:57,930
seasonally. That's your Trans
Siberian. Right. But a little

869
00:51:57,930 --> 00:52:00,480
bit about the history of
Mannheim, I think it's chip

870
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,860
Davis. Right. Davis is still
alive. Yes. And he's got

871
00:52:04,860 --> 00:52:08,310
multiple versions of the band.
Right? Well, there's

872
00:52:08,340 --> 00:52:11,970
okay. Yes. So there's that. So
traditionally, there are two

873
00:52:11,970 --> 00:52:16,470
bands that go out a red band and
a green band, and they go out

874
00:52:16,470 --> 00:52:20,280
simultaneously to tour one takes
the East Coast, sort of east of

875
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,890
the Mississippi and the other
one goes on the West Coast and

876
00:52:22,890 --> 00:52:27,240
kind of hits the Rockies and
whatnot. And they swap every few

877
00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:30,270
years. So you're gonna you know,
depending on what you're you're

878
00:52:30,270 --> 00:52:34,230
up to your itinerary changes,
but and then in addition to

879
00:52:34,230 --> 00:52:38,910
those two bands, there is
another production where they

880
00:52:38,910 --> 00:52:42,450
play I think last year, they
played two weekends in Orlando

881
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:48,090
at Disney with like a symphonic
whole. Symphony symphony. I

882
00:52:48,090 --> 00:52:51,630
don't know how many piece maybe.
So but and he conducts that

883
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:56,940
nice. His you know, he doesn't
go out in the road anymore. But

884
00:52:56,940 --> 00:53:00,750
he's the creator of the entire
thing. He he wrote all the

885
00:53:00,750 --> 00:53:05,880
arrangements, or at least co
wrote the arrangements. Yeah,

886
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,930
he's done really well with that.
And it's been a huge success for

887
00:53:09,930 --> 00:53:10,410
him.

888
00:53:11,700 --> 00:53:14,880
The most the most famous song
being parallel to bills. I

889
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,250
guess. So. Yeah. And it's a big
drum feature. Yeah,

890
00:53:17,250 --> 00:53:20,010
gang, gang, gang, go, go go.
Yeah,

891
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:25,650
that's the big closing number in
the show. A lot of fun to play.

892
00:53:27,210 --> 00:53:29,970
So what's the group consist of?
Is it like contemporary

893
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,380
ensemble, bass, drums guitar
band?

894
00:53:35,790 --> 00:53:40,080
The drumset chair. It's mainly
drum set, but I'm also playing

895
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,800
multiple other percussion
instruments. I play a lot of

896
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:52,200
glockenspiel. So orchestra bells
toy piano, wow. Various other

897
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:56,100
percussion like triangle and
suspended symbols, stuff like

898
00:53:56,100 --> 00:54:00,870
that. There's a hammer dulcimer
part that I play beautiful man.

899
00:54:00,870 --> 00:54:03,570
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty wild.
It's pretty all over the place

900
00:54:03,570 --> 00:54:05,490
and just depending on which
tunes that they put in the

901
00:54:05,490 --> 00:54:10,560
setlist if they don't, that will
change from year to year. And so

902
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:13,800
that so that's my chair. And
then next to me, there is a

903
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:19,920
percussionist, who plays timpani
and all sorts of Bell parts and

904
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:26,130
mallet parts, hand drums and
shakers and doodads tambourines,

905
00:54:26,460 --> 00:54:30,120
and she also plays recorder. So
all the recorder parts are

906
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:35,970
played by Roxanne they're right
next to me to my right. The band

907
00:54:35,970 --> 00:54:40,050
has a six piece band, there's a
pianist like a piano one he

908
00:54:40,050 --> 00:54:44,370
needs playing a real piano and
the other keyboard player he's

909
00:54:44,370 --> 00:54:48,750
on the stage right and he plays
the harpsichord and various

910
00:54:48,750 --> 00:54:53,700
other synth patches. And then
there is a violinist in the

911
00:54:53,700 --> 00:54:58,560
band, and she's the concert
master. And then addition to

912
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:02,550
her, there's one more Is the
bass player but he also kind of

913
00:55:02,550 --> 00:55:05,670
switches on and off between bass
and guitar and Lutz and

914
00:55:05,670 --> 00:55:09,810
different, different stringed
instruments. Yeah, it's a really

915
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:16,320
sort of eclectic, pretty unique
musical situation for all of us

916
00:55:16,350 --> 00:55:20,070
for all the different chairs.
And what's the, in addition to

917
00:55:20,070 --> 00:55:24,480
that they they contract locally,
the orchestra. So they have a

918
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:28,980
string section and plus an oboe
player on stage, right. And then

919
00:55:28,980 --> 00:55:32,640
on my side stage left, there's
two brass players a trumpet and

920
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:36,900
a French horn. So they kind of
rounds out the whole band.

921
00:55:37,590 --> 00:55:37,770
That's

922
00:55:37,770 --> 00:55:40,380
great. And then how do you guys
what is your schedule, like in

923
00:55:40,380 --> 00:55:42,930
the holiday months? And how do
you guys travel? Is it bus or

924
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:43,620
flight?

925
00:55:43,890 --> 00:55:48,450
It's bus. You know, they're
based in Omaha. So we'll, we'll

926
00:55:48,450 --> 00:55:52,950
fly to Omaha for a couple of
days do rehearsals in their

927
00:55:52,950 --> 00:55:57,240
facility there. And then we'll
fly out to wherever the tour

928
00:55:57,240 --> 00:56:00,450
starts and then join the bus.
And then you're on the bus for

929
00:56:00,450 --> 00:56:02,970
the next two months, because
it's about Yeah, it's about the

930
00:56:02,970 --> 00:56:06,600
seven week tour. And it's it's a
grueling schedule. I mean, we

931
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:10,560
were playing, you know, seven,
eight shows a week kind of thing

932
00:56:10,590 --> 00:56:10,800
there.

933
00:56:10,830 --> 00:56:14,040
Do you miss Thanksgiving and
Christmas? Well, yeah,

934
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:18,120
you're away from home for those.
Yeah. Now we had. We had

935
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:21,180
Thanksgiving and Christmas day
off. And I think we had

936
00:56:21,180 --> 00:56:26,850
Christmas Eve off too. So yeah,
you're you know, that's that can

937
00:56:26,850 --> 00:56:30,540
be challenging with a family
especially. Last year wasn't so

938
00:56:30,540 --> 00:56:33,390
bad because we were in
Huntsville for Christmas. So

939
00:56:33,420 --> 00:56:37,050
family just drove down. And we
stayed in the hotel together.

940
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,270
But yeah, we you know,
Thanksgiving, we have a big, you

941
00:56:42,270 --> 00:56:44,790
know, they throw us a big dinner
and it's all you know, all the

942
00:56:44,790 --> 00:56:45,840
production people

943
00:56:46,290 --> 00:56:49,410
as the least they can do. Okay,
well, that's cool. And then and

944
00:56:49,410 --> 00:56:52,260
then now with that same kind of
skill set the reading and the

945
00:56:52,260 --> 00:56:54,600
stylistic interpretation. You're
doing some stuff with the

946
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:55,740
National Symphony, right?

947
00:56:56,280 --> 00:57:01,950
Yeah, yeah. So got kind of
hooked up with the Pops

948
00:57:01,950 --> 00:57:06,780
conductor of the National
Symphony and Rico. Lopez. Janya

949
00:57:06,780 --> 00:57:12,180
is, I hope I'm saying that
right. Yeah. He's wonderful. And

950
00:57:13,470 --> 00:57:18,000
ever since meeting him, we had a
nice conversation just about

951
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:21,690
different, you know, gigs that I
was doing, and my background and

952
00:57:21,690 --> 00:57:26,100
stuff. And, you know, Monday
came around, and I had an email

953
00:57:26,130 --> 00:57:28,980
from the symphony about, hey, do
you want to play this show? And

954
00:57:28,980 --> 00:57:34,770
I was like, wow, that easy.
That's incredible. Well, it is

955
00:57:34,770 --> 00:57:39,870
and I'm so grateful for that
work. I mean, it is so

956
00:57:39,870 --> 00:57:43,860
incredible to play at the
Shermer horn and with the whole

957
00:57:43,890 --> 00:57:47,460
Nashville Symphony and to just
write acoustics Yeah, yeah, the

958
00:57:47,460 --> 00:57:51,000
acoustics and just be part of
like the, the ensemble I mean,

959
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,820
it just hearing the, the, you
know, the orchestra, I'm right

960
00:57:53,820 --> 00:57:56,520
on stage with them and, you
know, playing these great pieces

961
00:57:56,520 --> 00:58:02,010
and meeting everyone in the
orchestra and, you know, meeting

962
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:05,220
percussion section Sandbach goes
back there, he's Yeah,

963
00:58:05,220 --> 00:58:09,810
I love Sam. Yeah, it's Scott.
That's what's named Scott. Yes,

964
00:58:09,810 --> 00:58:10,320
yes.

965
00:58:10,710 --> 00:58:12,810
I don't know. I forget his last
name. But the hell we're both

966
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:13,260
playing. We

967
00:58:13,260 --> 00:58:15,000
both got to take our gingko
Belle Bo.

968
00:58:15,030 --> 00:58:20,490
I know. Scott. He's not there
every time but what is it? Scott

969
00:58:20,490 --> 00:58:22,770
quarry? Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.

970
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,170
Hello, sorry, Scott. Haven't
seen in a while, buddy. But

971
00:58:25,170 --> 00:58:27,600
they're going back to like the
90s. I met all these guys, you

972
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:28,230
know? Oh,

973
00:58:28,260 --> 00:58:33,360
yeah. Yeah. So it's such a good
time. I mean, I bring my kid in

974
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,330
there. And I get to choose like
which drum kit I want to use for

975
00:58:36,330 --> 00:58:39,600
the show. And, you know, they
have all these nice mics that

976
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:43,020
they're using on the kid. Oh,
man. I love just geeking out

977
00:58:43,020 --> 00:58:46,410
with everybody in there. It's
just a great time. I played a

978
00:58:46,410 --> 00:58:48,780
whole I don't know how many
productions I've played with

979
00:58:48,780 --> 00:58:51,090
them. Now. They're all
different. Each one is

980
00:58:51,090 --> 00:58:56,670
different. Sometimes there's a
huge percussion section I played

981
00:58:56,670 --> 00:59:01,470
this was one show that was
commissioned. Gosh, I'm trying

982
00:59:01,470 --> 00:59:06,300
to remember the name of it now.
Shoot, but there was all these

983
00:59:06,300 --> 00:59:10,830
like Haitian drummers, and all
these like Latin rhythms. And it

984
00:59:10,830 --> 00:59:13,290
was combined with like a sort of
a jazz show there. I was playing

985
00:59:13,290 --> 00:59:16,650
like some swing stuff in the
show, like, oh, man, it was It

986
00:59:16,650 --> 00:59:18,150
was wild. What's the

987
00:59:18,150 --> 00:59:20,730
schedule when you do a
production with a symphony?

988
00:59:21,150 --> 00:59:21,780
It's,

989
00:59:22,140 --> 00:59:25,980
I mean, it just depends on what,
what the what they need. I mean,

990
00:59:25,980 --> 00:59:29,640
I've done you know, shows where
it's just like rehearsal in the

991
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:33,060
afternoon show at night. That's
it, you're done. Or else I've

992
00:59:33,060 --> 00:59:35,250
done other shows where it's
like, a whole series of

993
00:59:35,250 --> 00:59:39,570
rehearsals and then you know, a
series of shows after that.

994
00:59:40,710 --> 00:59:43,170
It's, you know, they're never
they never run too long. You

995
00:59:43,170 --> 00:59:46,680
know, usually, a show will last
like three performances or so

996
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:48,660
like a Friday, Saturday, Sunday
kind of thing.

997
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:51,480
Does that go into your

998
00:59:53,460 --> 00:59:57,450
AFM pension? Yes. That's all
union. Yeah. Beautiful

999
00:59:57,450 --> 01:00:00,780
that Symfon because I talked to
Neil Grover I was telling Neil

1000
01:00:00,780 --> 01:00:06,810
Grover about my pension because
my pension is based on recording

1001
01:00:06,810 --> 01:00:13,140
sessions that I do that get
airplay. Right. Is pension was

1002
01:00:13,140 --> 01:00:16,500
based on every live performance
he did with the Boston Symphony

1003
01:00:16,500 --> 01:00:18,510
for 40 years.

1004
01:00:18,540 --> 01:00:19,860
There you go. Yeah.

1005
01:00:19,950 --> 01:00:22,890
You know, I mean, it's, that's
where being a symphonic musician

1006
01:00:22,890 --> 01:00:24,330
really pays off.

1007
01:00:24,660 --> 01:00:27,210
Oh, yeah. I mean, those guys who
are in the orchestra if you're

1008
01:00:27,210 --> 01:00:30,780
the principal timpanist or, you
know, I mean, yeah, you're

1009
01:00:30,780 --> 01:00:34,590
working. You're making money and
you're doing well. Yeah. I mean,

1010
01:00:34,590 --> 01:00:37,800
I don't know. I don't know what
the numbers are. But I mean, I

1011
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,710
can only imagine, you know,
it's, you know, I mean, they

1012
01:00:40,710 --> 01:00:42,900
have their seasonal it's not
like they they're not playing

1013
01:00:42,900 --> 01:00:46,260
all year long. You know, they
have they're on season and they

1014
01:00:46,260 --> 01:00:48,060
have an offseason. I think
they're off during the most of

1015
01:00:48,060 --> 01:00:51,180
the summer, and then they go
back on in the fall again, and

1016
01:00:51,180 --> 01:00:57,300
then through Christmas. So but
yeah, what a great gig, you

1017
01:00:57,300 --> 01:01:00,540
know, if you can land a gig like
that, you know, I mean, for me,

1018
01:01:00,540 --> 01:01:04,020
I'm just contracted as a sideman
with them. So when it when they

1019
01:01:04,020 --> 01:01:08,940
need a drumset player, who, you
know, they can count on for

1020
01:01:08,970 --> 01:01:12,330
time, or playing styles or
whatever and read the part and

1021
01:01:12,330 --> 01:01:15,780
stuff. Then they call me and I
know I'm not the only one

1022
01:01:15,780 --> 01:01:18,660
either. There's other guys that
they call on town, too. So it's

1023
01:01:18,660 --> 01:01:19,740
not like I'm well

1024
01:01:19,740 --> 01:01:23,490
God rest his soul. Bob meter was
one of them. I believe he was a

1025
01:01:23,490 --> 01:01:28,680
stylish guy. I don't know how
long list is, but I'm gonna try

1026
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:32,700
to get on that thing way down
the list. I just want to get on

1027
01:01:32,700 --> 01:01:36,300
a list. That sounds sexy.
Because what I what I'm getting

1028
01:01:36,300 --> 01:01:41,280
from our conversation is that
there is a lot of underbelly

1029
01:01:41,610 --> 01:01:45,510
opportunities that no one would
normally think of that you're in

1030
01:01:45,510 --> 01:01:48,720
the mix with. There is a lot of
work out there. These corporate

1031
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:53,340
parties, the jazz brunches, the
symphony, these tribute shows

1032
01:01:53,370 --> 01:01:55,650
you got your own band. Yeah,

1033
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:58,620
you have to be versatile. I
mean, a gig like playing with

1034
01:01:58,620 --> 01:02:01,980
the symphony. It's like, you got
to follow the conductor, man,

1035
01:02:02,010 --> 01:02:05,550
like you got to play soft. You
know, when they asked you to

1036
01:02:05,550 --> 01:02:10,140
play soft, and I mean, socked?
You know, you think you're

1037
01:02:10,140 --> 01:02:12,750
playing soft, no play like way
softer.

1038
01:02:12,780 --> 01:02:15,270
You have to judge it based on
the dirty looks you're getting

1039
01:02:15,270 --> 01:02:16,950
from the violin section. Oh,

1040
01:02:16,980 --> 01:02:21,180
that's always I mean, forget. I
mean, like, Yeah, I think they

1041
01:02:21,750 --> 01:02:24,000
even you're not even set up yet.
And you're getting the dirty

1042
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:28,110
looks like thanks a lot. Ya
know, I try to win them over,

1043
01:02:28,140 --> 01:02:30,780
you know, I try to be you know,
be super friendly with them.

1044
01:02:30,780 --> 01:02:34,290
And, you know, and hopefully my
playing wins them over by the

1045
01:02:34,290 --> 01:02:36,990
end of the show, or whatever,
because I want them to like me,

1046
01:02:36,990 --> 01:02:39,750
you know, it's like, I'm trying
to be a musical drummer, you

1047
01:02:39,750 --> 01:02:42,690
know, is playing music on these
drums? You know, I

1048
01:02:42,690 --> 01:02:45,180
don't have chocolate, they'll
pass out snow. That's what my

1049
01:02:45,180 --> 01:02:47,400
grandfather would do. He would
have had lilies little he always

1050
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:51,270
had these little Jordan almonds
in his coat somewhere. And he

1051
01:02:51,270 --> 01:02:53,250
would triple these. You know,

1052
01:02:53,460 --> 01:02:56,010
I needed to do that. Jordan,
almonds. Let's

1053
01:02:56,010 --> 01:02:59,310
bring him back. I didn't know if
they make them anymore. candy

1054
01:02:59,310 --> 01:03:03,990
coated almonds. Right. Yeah. All
right. Well, I think it's great.

1055
01:03:03,990 --> 01:03:08,220
And then as far as your home
tracking, are you on air gigs

1056
01:03:08,220 --> 01:03:11,130
and sound better.com to get the
one or

1057
01:03:11,130 --> 01:03:15,150
both of those? You know, years
ago, I was getting some traction

1058
01:03:15,150 --> 01:03:19,140
on air gigs. And then it sort
of, I guess maybe COVID just

1059
01:03:19,140 --> 01:03:22,890
killed? I don't know, just it
tapered off one day, one day,

1060
01:03:22,890 --> 01:03:27,690
and it never came back and sound
better. I got on there. I don't

1061
01:03:27,690 --> 01:03:31,260
know. Maybe like two years ago,
I forget what it was. But, man,

1062
01:03:31,260 --> 01:03:35,670
I haven't had one. It's been
like, like, a ghost town for me.

1063
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:40,020
I'm trying to figure out like,
how, how do I break through the

1064
01:03:40,020 --> 01:03:41,310
noise on those sites?

1065
01:03:41,340 --> 01:03:44,040
I don't I just don't like that.
You have to put your pricing on

1066
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:46,830
there. Because a lot of people
are like that. Yeah, like I'm

1067
01:03:46,830 --> 01:03:50,790
shopping for a great drummer for
under $100 A song you know, I

1068
01:03:50,790 --> 01:03:51,630
mean, it's a race to the

1069
01:03:51,630 --> 01:03:55,560
bottom in a lot of ways, you
know, and I don't I mean, yeah,

1070
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:57,990
I'm not charging $100 I'm
charging more than that.

1071
01:03:58,020 --> 01:04:01,740
I guess, as you should, as you
should. And this is what I tell

1072
01:04:01,740 --> 01:04:04,380
teachers and people that are
doing home recording sessions.

1073
01:04:05,070 --> 01:04:08,280
You have an advanced degree.
You've been playing drums since

1074
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,100
the 70s 80s. Well,

1075
01:04:11,130 --> 01:04:15,900
a professionally since when did
you start? 90 ish, like Yeah,

1076
01:04:16,050 --> 01:04:16,500
okay, so

1077
01:04:16,500 --> 01:04:20,430
we're talking decades here.
Yeah. I don't want to anger any

1078
01:04:20,430 --> 01:04:23,670
misuses that are listening right
now. We all need you. We love

1079
01:04:23,670 --> 01:04:25,770
you. We understand that you
understand how the human body

1080
01:04:25,770 --> 01:04:29,430
works and trigger points and
different are we doing Swedish?

1081
01:04:29,430 --> 01:04:32,490
Are we doing athletic? What do
we I get it, but I don't know

1082
01:04:32,490 --> 01:04:35,670
how long you go to school? Six
months, maybe a year? Yeah, you

1083
01:04:35,670 --> 01:04:39,480
make a they make $80 an hour?
It's $1 a minute plus usually a

1084
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:45,360
$20. Tip. Yeah. So then why are
drummers charging $25 an hour

1085
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:50,400
for a drum lesson or $100 a
track? No, you're way off and

1086
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:52,620
you're bringing the whole thing
way down?

1087
01:04:52,770 --> 01:04:55,590
Yes, the bar is going way too
low, to

1088
01:04:55,590 --> 01:05:00,810
charge at least $1 a minute for
your skill. said that his highly

1089
01:05:00,810 --> 01:05:03,900
developed you, you invested in
yourself, you paid for higher

1090
01:05:03,900 --> 01:05:07,800
education, your gear bill, all
the practice all the

1091
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,380
sacrificing, come on, and

1092
01:05:10,380 --> 01:05:13,440
just you know, I'm here I'm
engineering everything myself,

1093
01:05:13,470 --> 01:05:18,510
you know? It's not you know, I
mean you have to charge so much.

1094
01:05:18,540 --> 01:05:22,500
Yeah, it's it's a it's a job
man. And I mean, it's a fun job

1095
01:05:22,500 --> 01:05:24,810
don't get me you know I wouldn't
do it if it wasn't fun. You

1096
01:05:24,810 --> 01:05:25,200
know,

1097
01:05:25,350 --> 01:05:27,270
there's harder ways to make
money here. Sure.

1098
01:05:28,650 --> 01:05:34,740
But but there's a huge skill set
involved and yeah, it's Yeah,

1099
01:05:34,770 --> 01:05:41,160
people's need to stop chasing
each other to the bottom of the

1100
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:46,170
scale there. Yeah. So hopefully,
I don't know, let's Yeah, let's

1101
01:05:46,170 --> 01:05:46,560
spread the

1102
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:50,040
word charge what you charge and
proudly own it. Because you

1103
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:52,680
know, you know that deep down
your soul you're worth that

1104
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:54,000
amount? Yeah.

1105
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:57,990
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, you know,
and you work as hard as you and

1106
01:05:57,990 --> 01:06:01,470
I have developed these skills
now, not only drumset wise, but

1107
01:06:01,500 --> 01:06:04,860
you know, the miking and the,
you know, and then all the posts

1108
01:06:04,860 --> 01:06:06,750
stuff. I mean, you know, all

1109
01:06:06,750 --> 01:06:09,060
the file management, well,
you're a brave man, I bring in

1110
01:06:09,060 --> 01:06:11,970
my drum tech, and we do it
together, and I got a stroke him

1111
01:06:11,970 --> 01:06:14,190
some money. So I lose a bit some
profit, but

1112
01:06:14,310 --> 01:06:17,850
the workflow, I've thought about
doing that, the joy

1113
01:06:17,850 --> 01:06:21,630
and the work, the workflow is
more pleasant, because I have to

1114
01:06:21,630 --> 01:06:23,970
deal with the file management.
Right

1115
01:06:24,060 --> 01:06:27,600
in there are some clients that I
work with, who want me to

1116
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:32,370
actually, like, mix the drums,
or the song or the record, it's

1117
01:06:32,370 --> 01:06:37,440
like, you know, jeez, man, like,
I'm not, you know, I didn't go

1118
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:40,920
to school for that, you know,
I'm just self taught. I yeah, I

1119
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:43,260
watch a lot of YouTube. You
know,

1120
01:06:43,380 --> 01:06:46,320
that's when I would say, you got
this, I'm sending you the raw

1121
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:47,220
performance, you know,

1122
01:06:47,340 --> 01:06:51,450
I mean, yeah, you know, it's, it
can be challenging. And I've had

1123
01:06:51,450 --> 01:06:54,390
to learn that the hard way. I've
had to learn to ask that.

1124
01:06:54,420 --> 01:06:58,530
Because, you know, I would send
files in there that were raw and

1125
01:06:58,530 --> 01:07:02,190
mixed. And then the song would
come out. And I'd be like, why

1126
01:07:02,190 --> 01:07:06,180
the drum sound raw? Like, you
just you didn't you didn't mix

1127
01:07:06,180 --> 01:07:10,260
anything. You do that? Hello?
Yeah. Yeah. So you learn the

1128
01:07:10,260 --> 01:07:15,090
hard way. That and then you go
okay, so you want me to mix

1129
01:07:15,090 --> 01:07:17,310
this, then? You know, I'll
probably charge you a little bit

1130
01:07:17,310 --> 01:07:23,610
more to do that. Which is valid.
Yeah. Yeah. Totally valid, you

1131
01:07:23,610 --> 01:07:27,570
know, but, but I find, I find
enjoyment in it, because I get

1132
01:07:27,570 --> 01:07:30,990
better and better at it as each
time I do it. You know, and you

1133
01:07:30,990 --> 01:07:35,820
find new ways to, to mix and to
totally solve problems and

1134
01:07:35,820 --> 01:07:36,540
whatnot. Yeah,

1135
01:07:36,570 --> 01:07:38,700
I love it. I love it. I mean, at
the end of the day, we're making

1136
01:07:38,700 --> 01:07:42,120
a difference to people's lives.
We're helping bring their art to

1137
01:07:42,150 --> 01:07:45,690
life. It's it's a really, it's a
grand calling it really is. And

1138
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:46,350
oh, it's great.

1139
01:07:46,350 --> 01:07:50,790
I mean, you know, I've always
just wanted to be a session guy

1140
01:07:50,820 --> 01:07:53,340
like, you know, I mean, I love
playing live Be careful

1141
01:07:53,340 --> 01:07:54,630
what you wish for because you
know

1142
01:07:56,940 --> 01:08:00,240
sometimes yeah, I've talked to
guys in town who are like known

1143
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:03,600
as session guys and sometimes
they're kind of dark sometimes

1144
01:08:03,630 --> 01:08:06,630
and saying things like I don't
actually listen to the music

1145
01:08:06,630 --> 01:08:10,980
that I record and stuff and it
makes me wonder like, really?

1146
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:11,880
Yeah, like

1147
01:08:12,930 --> 01:08:15,780
well, you know, Johnny Depp says
he's never watched a daily event

1148
01:08:15,780 --> 01:08:19,830
or se in any of his films, which
I cannot even how would you not

1149
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:24,900
just by accident, see? Sleepy
Hollow or Pirates of the

1150
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:26,010
Caribbean? Come on,

1151
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:32,190
right? Yeah, I don't know. I
mean, I'm just trying to cobble

1152
01:08:32,190 --> 01:08:33,000
a living together.

1153
01:08:33,029 --> 01:08:35,279
You're doing it man. You're
doing it you're you know, you're

1154
01:08:35,279 --> 01:08:38,369
in you know, beautiful Tennessee
here. You got a studio in your

1155
01:08:38,369 --> 01:08:42,929
house. You got the you know, bed
people downstairs, you know, I

1156
01:08:42,929 --> 01:08:45,479
mean, you're doing the thing,
man. So now you're a veteran of

1157
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:49,829
three major music cities, you've
received a lot of advice. Now

1158
01:08:49,829 --> 01:08:52,109
that you're an eight year
veteran of Nashville, somebody's

1159
01:08:52,109 --> 01:08:54,149
moving to Nashville. What would
you tell them?

1160
01:08:55,499 --> 01:08:57,929
Well, if they're, I mean, if
they're just getting started

1161
01:08:57,929 --> 01:09:00,269
with their career, if they're
young, you know, maybe right out

1162
01:09:00,269 --> 01:09:06,689
of school or whatever. Just have
a system for learning new music

1163
01:09:06,959 --> 01:09:11,069
is a big one. Because you're
just gonna get thrown all the

1164
01:09:11,069 --> 01:09:15,869
songs all at once. And you're
gonna be expected to know it

1165
01:09:15,869 --> 01:09:20,909
onstage. Yeah. And, you know,
just be as versatile as you can.

1166
01:09:20,939 --> 01:09:28,349
Don't be like super, you know,
like, I pick Yeah, like listen

1167
01:09:28,349 --> 01:09:31,409
to listen to multiple styles and
don't if you're a country guy,

1168
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:34,289
don't just listen to country,
check out some r&b stuff, check

1169
01:09:34,289 --> 01:09:38,459
out pop or, you know, maybe a
jazz record or you know, or like

1170
01:09:38,459 --> 01:09:42,509
an acoustic record of some sort
or, you know, just find other

1171
01:09:42,779 --> 01:09:48,629
things to dig in on to sort of
sponge into your playing. Yes.

1172
01:09:49,709 --> 01:09:54,389
You know, and again, all always
being authentic, always having

1173
01:09:54,629 --> 01:09:59,039
coming from an authenticity
point of view, because people

1174
01:09:59,039 --> 01:10:04,439
can smell a fake a mile away,
even, you know, even, you know,

1175
01:10:04,469 --> 01:10:09,809
other people that other
listeners who aren't musicians,

1176
01:10:09,809 --> 01:10:14,369
you know, they can smell a fake.
And so, learn your styles, you

1177
01:10:14,369 --> 01:10:16,919
know, learn you know, if you're
a guitar player learn your learn

1178
01:10:16,919 --> 01:10:19,889
how to get tones and copy, you
know, the tone that's from the

1179
01:10:19,889 --> 01:10:25,169
record or whatever it is, you
know. I, you know, I'm a big fan

1180
01:10:25,169 --> 01:10:28,199
of learning to read music
because I It helps me it helps

1181
01:10:28,199 --> 01:10:33,539
me on shows, and I don't have to
memorize things. I can just read

1182
01:10:33,539 --> 01:10:38,159
it. And I can play it like, like
I memorized it is everybody in

1183
01:10:38,159 --> 01:10:42,569
that room, including the artist.
I've played entire shows where

1184
01:10:43,049 --> 01:10:46,589
they never knew you're reading,
but you, the artists never

1185
01:10:46,619 --> 01:10:49,349
right. He was like, Thanks for
memorizing all my stuff. And I

1186
01:10:49,349 --> 01:10:53,039
read the whole darn thing. I
counted it off. I led the whole

1187
01:10:53,039 --> 01:10:56,339
thing. He never I fooled him
completely.

1188
01:10:56,580 --> 01:11:00,060
Dude, I do the same thing. I
will write that stuff out.

1189
01:11:00,270 --> 01:11:04,020
Reading music is the literally
the cornerstone of my

1190
01:11:04,020 --> 01:11:06,990
educational philosophy. To me, I
consider it even more important

1191
01:11:06,990 --> 01:11:10,650
than rudiments. Because if you
can play a couple of great

1192
01:11:10,650 --> 01:11:13,380
beats, and you get a good sound
on your instrument, what's going

1193
01:11:13,380 --> 01:11:16,830
to propel your career is not the
ability to do a five stroke roll

1194
01:11:16,830 --> 01:11:21,660
Believe me, you're going to need
it. But your ability to learn

1195
01:11:21,660 --> 01:11:23,190
lots of material quickly.

1196
01:11:23,699 --> 01:11:28,139
Yeah, yeah, that's in Nashville.
That's big time the name of the

1197
01:11:28,139 --> 01:11:31,589
game. And and I'll say this,
like being comfortable with

1198
01:11:31,589 --> 01:11:34,919
playing something that you don't
know, like you get called to do

1199
01:11:34,919 --> 01:11:38,279
on Broadway and you get somebody
requests a song and you're the

1200
01:11:38,279 --> 01:11:40,409
only guy in the band that
doesn't know the song. Well, you

1201
01:11:40,409 --> 01:11:44,039
better get used to that feeling
because that's going to happen,

1202
01:11:44,099 --> 01:11:46,169
and you better know how to fake
it. And

1203
01:11:46,170 --> 01:11:49,170
hopefully the bass player like
look at straight A's medium rock

1204
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:52,590
four on the floor, watch me for
the stops know what to ask for

1205
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:55,410
all that stuff. How does it
start? How does it end?

1206
01:11:55,829 --> 01:12:02,249
Right? All that stuff? Yes,
exactly. That's a good skill

1207
01:12:02,249 --> 01:12:02,579
set.

1208
01:12:02,610 --> 01:12:05,370
I'm just so happy. You're here,
man. And we just you know, we we

1209
01:12:05,370 --> 01:12:07,440
didn't get to spend enough time
together as like, you know, on

1210
01:12:07,440 --> 01:12:11,070
that tour together. But yeah,
you know, I want to come see

1211
01:12:11,070 --> 01:12:12,330
Mount Juliet, you

1212
01:12:12,330 --> 01:12:17,100
play man, I just I was really,
you know, you are the ultimate

1213
01:12:17,100 --> 01:12:20,610
like stadium rock drummer. I
love watching. You're so

1214
01:12:20,610 --> 01:12:23,460
entertaining to watch, to play
and to listen to obviously. I

1215
01:12:23,460 --> 01:12:26,970
mean, you got such a killer
groove. But like, just visually,

1216
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:30,450
you're just a lot of fun to
watch. And I take inspiration

1217
01:12:30,450 --> 01:12:30,960
from that.

1218
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:34,080
Oh, thank you. It means so much
to me, man. I just a big fan of

1219
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:39,180
everybody check out Brian
zak.com and that's CZ. ach.com.

1220
01:12:39,270 --> 01:12:41,220
He's a member of the Polish
American club, you know, pink

1221
01:12:41,220 --> 01:12:44,850
cup. And I always tell everybody
Hey, you got to learn how to

1222
01:12:44,850 --> 01:12:47,190
train me and you got to learn
the two step pink app and Cappy.

1223
01:12:48,030 --> 01:12:51,420
But no, there's there's actually
a video of you recite reading a

1224
01:12:51,420 --> 01:12:54,450
Big Bang track and it sounds
incredibly good.

1225
01:12:55,049 --> 01:12:58,229
Thanks, man. Thanks. Yeah,
that's a skill I worked on long

1226
01:12:58,229 --> 01:13:01,439
and hard. And you know, it's all
through school. And, you know,

1227
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:03,869
and beyond even, you know, on
the cruise ships, and you'd get

1228
01:13:03,899 --> 01:13:07,379
thrown these these shows, and,
you know, these charts that are

1229
01:13:07,409 --> 01:13:09,839
sometimes they're a mess, and
sometimes they're immaculate,

1230
01:13:09,839 --> 01:13:14,129
but you got to read that stuff.
Like you own it, you know? Yeah,

1231
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:16,620
I worked on that really, really
hard. I loved playing in the big

1232
01:13:16,620 --> 01:13:21,150
band. It's equally as satisfying
is playing in a kick ass rock

1233
01:13:21,150 --> 01:13:25,650
band, because a great big band
that swings together that moves

1234
01:13:25,650 --> 01:13:30,510
as an organism and trusts their
drummer. Oh, it's a great one.

1235
01:13:30,660 --> 01:13:34,770
Yeah. You know, Ellington,
Basie, and then you got into the

1236
01:13:34,770 --> 01:13:39,390
the modern the nestico stuff in
the mincer stuff. And the Gordon

1237
01:13:39,390 --> 01:13:41,940
Goodwin big fat wall. That's a
band who

1238
01:13:41,939 --> 01:13:46,199
Oh, I love it. I love all of
that stuff. You know, really,

1239
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:49,230
really great. Hey, we're gonna
close out with the Fave Five.

1240
01:13:49,230 --> 01:13:50,280
What's your favorite color?

1241
01:13:52,020 --> 01:13:53,130
Usually Green.

1242
01:13:53,670 --> 01:13:55,680
Green. I don't get a lot of
greens, man.

1243
01:13:55,950 --> 01:13:59,280
Yeah, I like I like purple too.
But green, green and purple.

1244
01:13:59,339 --> 01:14:01,679
What about your favorite food
favorite dish?

1245
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:05,520
Oh, gosh. It's gotta be Italian.
Probably. I love going to Italy.

1246
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:09,420
Yeah, like I like a good
carbonara. Very

1247
01:14:09,420 --> 01:14:12,480
nice. And yeah, well, you know,
as far as a drink, would you

1248
01:14:12,480 --> 01:14:15,210
pair that with a red? What would
you do? What's your favorite?

1249
01:14:15,660 --> 01:14:16,710
Tip classico

1250
01:14:16,740 --> 01:14:20,370
all the way? Oh, like Italian
table one. Yeah, and I'm not

1251
01:14:20,370 --> 01:14:22,350
Italian one bit but I just love
Italian.

1252
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:26,310
I'm not Polish but I love
perogies and I my ex wife was

1253
01:14:26,310 --> 01:14:29,340
Polish and so we go up to
Michigan and like eat the heck

1254
01:14:29,340 --> 01:14:30,990
out of those parolees. Yeah,

1255
01:14:31,020 --> 01:14:34,080
yeah, that stuff Well, same
thing with the with the Italian.

1256
01:14:34,770 --> 01:14:35,280
Dude.

1257
01:14:35,850 --> 01:14:39,180
What is this is kind of a tough
one. But what is your favorite

1258
01:14:39,180 --> 01:14:42,450
song in the sense that this
thing comes on the radio and you

1259
01:14:42,450 --> 01:14:45,300
are going to crank that thing
up, man?

1260
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:49,260
Gotta be Phil Collins something
Phil Collins probably probably

1261
01:14:49,260 --> 01:14:52,110
in the air tonight. Why not
write breathless Gibberish

1262
01:14:52,110 --> 01:14:56,460
Gibberish Gibberish or maybe
yeah, or maybe like, easy lover.

1263
01:14:57,270 --> 01:15:01,140
Dude with Philip Bailey. Yeah,
well Got a drum sound what a

1264
01:15:01,140 --> 01:15:01,950
drum part.

1265
01:15:02,189 --> 01:15:06,449
Yes. just crank it well, massive

1266
01:15:06,450 --> 01:15:08,280
application of the six stroke
roll.

1267
01:15:08,639 --> 01:15:10,109
Yeah. Yeah.

1268
01:15:10,619 --> 01:15:14,879
I love it. And then your
favorite movie? Oh, gosh.

1269
01:15:15,210 --> 01:15:19,140
Maybe I'm lost in translation.

1270
01:15:19,830 --> 01:15:24,210
Classic Coppola. Yeah. So
awkward.

1271
01:15:24,659 --> 01:15:28,709
Yes. There's, you know, we're
gonna come full circle now

1272
01:15:28,709 --> 01:15:32,519
because, you know, talking about
going to Tokyo and Japan. watch

1273
01:15:32,519 --> 01:15:36,149
that film. And you see, and I
remember watching that film

1274
01:15:36,149 --> 01:15:40,139
after being in Tokyo. And I was
like, that's how I felt. The way

1275
01:15:40,139 --> 01:15:44,819
Bill Murray's walking around and
just like, yeah, just like,

1276
01:15:45,059 --> 01:15:47,519
gawking, you know, it's just
strange. Strange.

1277
01:15:48,119 --> 01:15:52,439
That may December romance is
also kind of highlighted. Yeah,

1278
01:15:52,589 --> 01:15:56,009
you know, and you just end up
hating RBCs character. You're

1279
01:15:56,009 --> 01:15:59,969
like, What is wrong with you?
Your wife is awesome. I know. I

1280
01:15:59,969 --> 01:16:03,149
know. It's crazy. What's the
best way for people to get in

1281
01:16:03,149 --> 01:16:05,969
touch you contact with your
brand? zack.com Yeah,

1282
01:16:05,970 --> 01:16:09,870
probably or just on social you
know, at Brian Zach on Instagram

1283
01:16:09,870 --> 01:16:13,650
or Facebook. I mean, I you know,
I'm on all the time easy to find

1284
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:15,510
just my name. Yep.

1285
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:18,420
That's what I say. I'm a sitting
duck on the Google inator man.

1286
01:16:19,230 --> 01:16:21,180
Well, I'm gonna come out and
visit with you man and the mount

1287
01:16:21,180 --> 01:16:25,650
Juliet's. Let's do it. Yeah.
And, man, congratulations on

1288
01:16:25,650 --> 01:16:32,580
your Nashville journey. You're
just taking it by storm. Great,

1289
01:16:32,610 --> 01:16:34,680
great to have you on here. And
hey, to all the listeners.

1290
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:38,310
Thanks for tuning in. Be sure to
subscribe, share rate and review

1291
01:16:38,490 --> 01:16:42,420
that helps everybody find the
show. And until next time, we're

1292
01:16:42,420 --> 01:16:44,970
gonna be here. We'll see you
next time. Brian. Thanks, man.

1293
01:16:45,900 --> 01:16:49,980
Take care. This has been the
rich Redmond show. Subscribe

1294
01:16:50,130 --> 01:16:54,720
rate and follow along at rich
redman.com forward slash

1295
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:55,620
podcasts.