Coming to you from crash studios in Music City, USA, Nashville.
This is the rich Redman show
is up, folks. Yep. Your shock jock is here rich Redmond it's
time for the rich Redmond show where we talk about all things
music, motivation success. We love these things. These things
drive us they inspire us. It's a reason to live really excited
about today's guests originally hailing from Saratoga, New York,
calling Music City home for eight plus years. Today's guests
a fantastic all around drummer was worked with Top X in New
York City, Vegas in Nashville, some of which include Mannheim
steamroller a Miles Davis tribute show that he leads it's
his own band, and Tracy Lawrence where we got to spend some time
together. Today I'm talking about our friend Brian, Zack.
What's up, bud?
Hey, how's it going?
Boom, boom, boom. How's that for a Hollywood intro?
It was fantastic. I love it. I need to have you with me
everywhere I go.
I you know what, it's, you know, when I would do it. And of
course, I'd be wearing some sort of like, portable timpani. So I
can just do that.
There you go. Yeah, man, showbiz baby.
So this is great. You know, I remember running into you or we,
when was it we connected in Vegas? Was it over a decade ago?
Yeah. Would have been an old friend of mine. Put me in touch
with your wealth. He called me one day and he said that you're
in town. And he gave me your number. Apparently he had known
Danny young. Do you remember? Danny? Yeah.
Danny. Yeah. Danny. Yeah. Danny ended up making the all those
products. The bald man's stole man stuff. Yes.
And so he told me you were in town for a day or two or
whatever it was, and gave me your number. And I just on a
whim was like, Okay, I'll give him a call. And see what
happened. I had no idea what to expect. Yeah, we hung in. And,
and yeah, you you answered and you said, come pick me up
tomorrow morning. And we'll hang and I'll give you a lesson and
all this stuff. So we did. I picked you up at the MGM. We
drove over I had this at the time I had this lock out studio,
where I kept my drums. Yeah, we went in there. And it was so
funny. I remember it really like it was yesterday, because we got
in there. And you asked me to start playing. And so I don't
know, I was playing. I don't even think I was playing the
music. I was just grooving on something. And I went straight
through my snare drum head. You're like, Yes. Which I never
do that. Like that never happens to me. You know, breaking a
snare head is like a really uncommon occurrence. In my
world. I hit hard, but I just don't break heads. I don't know
what it is. No,
I pit them. I don't I don't break them back in the day when
I was using ambassadors. Geez, but I haven't seen. I haven't
seen an ambassador in years.
It was just the most bizarre thing. And I remember just being
shocked. And I looked up at you and you're just laughing like,
hysterically. And it we just bonded. Like that's just a
moment of like, Oh, yes, like drummers just you know, this
happens to I don't
know what the heck I would have showed you because you're such a
great player. But maybe maybe it had planted a little bit of germ
in the back of your mind like hey, man Music City. Yeah,
I think so. I mean, we did a lot of mostly talking, we talked
about career stuff, and ya know, trajectory and how to go about
that kind of thing. Yeah. And yeah, you know, I guess
probably, it might have planted a seed. I mean, there were there
were various moments in my Vegas years where I thought, Hmm, wow,
those guys in Nashville are really playing their butts off,
you know, and I'd have to play the I was playing in like a
country covers band, and I have to learn the songs. And you
know, and I mean, I hadn't typically listened to any of
this stuff before. So it was all new to me learning this music.
And I loved it. You know, I mean, we all do the ElDeen all
the Rascal Flatts and, gosh, I mean, there was just so much,
you know, Dierks Bentley. And, you know, and I'm just remember
hearing this music in in, like, remarking to myself, wow, like,
this is real, like, these are real musicians playing in a real
studio still, you know, because so much of the stuff you play in
Vegas is all the Lady Gaga and like the sort of copy and
pastes, you know, tracks and there's not really any humans on
a lot of that stuff. And I've just loved human playing, you
know, so it really spoke to me even back then.
Well, I'm glad you ended up here and I know another situation
that kind of, like, planted a seed. I mean, let's face it,
this truly, I mean, there is music happening in a lot of
metropolitan areas, but this is just seems to be a very robust
city. You Every one is coming and we still for the most part
get together in the same room and do stuff now your if you
guys aren't watching this, you're just listening. Brian is
in this killer he's got his man cave above the garage that he's
converted into a beautiful studio I'm in my man cave above
my garage that I've converted into a studio. And it's just
kind of like a way of life and that was traffic is getting a
little bit worse and we're becoming a real real city. We
are sending files to each other you know, it's more affordable
and it cuts down on the the travel time and all that kind of
stuff. So your your room looks fantastic. Now you're here eight
years, but let's go back. You studied with Gordon stout at
Ithaca met Correct? That's right. So the funny thing about
Gordon is now I studied with Alan Shin, who was a all around
percussionist. And then when I went to North Texas State, of
course, Dr. Trauma, Ron Fink, all around percussionist, and
then of course, the great ed. So, Henry oxido, mostly drumset
players. But the thing about Gordon Gordon is a world
renowned. virtuosic, marimbas Ste. Yes. And I can totally
relate to your story because I studied classical percussion,
and I did all my Psycho I'll be in my yellow after the rain and
all the probably played all sorts of stout pieces and right.
But I was a drumset player. Yeah, I mean, at the heart of
it. Totally
the same. Yeah. Right. And always knew there would make no
mistake there was I always knew I'm a drumset player playing the
marimba. And, you know, I didn't have a natural ability on that
instrument, like I did with a drum set.
Did you have piano training? grown up a
little in high school? Yeah, that always helps. And I used to
play like, My father played piano. And so there was a piano
in the house all the time. And I would just kind of figure out
songs by ear and stuff. So yeah, yeah, right. But yeah, Gordon, I
mean, I don't think I ever heard Gordon play a wrong note ever in
the four years that I studied at Ithaca and it's
easy to do on a four mallet marimba piece because oh, man,
just graze that note the wrong way. Yeah,
yeah, he's he's just amazing. And his I mean, he could you put
anything in front of him he would just read it like like
it's nothing you know, just like he's reading the newspaper the
breakfast you know, it's just like, yeah, you It's
interesting though. All the work that goes into to mastering say
like your Lee Howard Stevens or your Gordon stout or your Keiko
abi, and there's a new generation of these stellar
marimba seats that are that are forming, you know, as we speak,
there's two things you do you teach. You write books, and then
you have to go out and appear as a soloist? Yeah. With orchestras
and chambers. What a grind. I mean, that is a tough life.
Yeah, I guess so. I mean, unless you start landing those those
gigs, you know, playing concertos and stuff with the
with the symphonic orchestras. I mean, that sounds like that
could be a cool gig. You know, but yeah, that's a tough world
to break into. I bet. But obviously,
he was like, I know what you're gonna do. Let's, let's teach you
musicianship on this instrument. Cuz there's so much you can
learn from it. As far as like, the touch and tone production in
your hand. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
All right. Yeah. I mean, much of our lessons were about phrasing
and just motion. And like, if you had, for instance, if you
had a repeating no of any kind, it would never be played like
static unless it was meant to be static. But otherwise, you you
know you, you're going somewhere with that note, it's
crescendoing today crescendoing it's moving to someplace. And so
I would take those lessons on the marimba with Gordon and take
them to my drumset in the practice room to the drum set
and apply all of that musicianship to the drum set.
You know, and think of just the idea of like, sit down at the
drum set and think of the drum set as a marimba as a as a
melodic instrument. Like, you know, we're getting into some
heavy concepts already here. You know, that's, that's good.
It's a weapon in the wrong hands, the drumset it really is,
for sure. And yeah, just, it's just all about thinking in a
musical way. You know, how do I play in a musical way where
people aren't holding their ears like when you stop playing the
black beats? Yeah,
that's that that is the one style that I just do not do. You
know, I'm sure you're familiar that but the thing is, is that
if folks aren't familiar with you, and I will say that go to
your websites are great, very robust website, the spelling of
your last name, Zack CZ, a CH what nationality is that? What
are the roots that is Polish and my father was 100% polish so I
have
you do that for OGIS at the holidays and all that stuff?
Sure. Yeah.
Yeah. Kill bosses and pierogi He's in. I mean,
I always love the potatoes, the potato.
Oh man, potatoes and onions. Yeah,
yeah, I know where I'm coming for the holidays. So anyways, if
people go to your website they can see you are you are in all
around drumset artists so there's no style really that you
haven't covered because when you were doing you've done cruise
ships we'll get into that you've done tons of tribute shows the
Carole King's the Bee Gees, the end where you have to be a
reader. You do big band reading you lead small groups. I see
videos of you doing jazz brunches. You do multi genre
recording sessions and then then you're on the road with us doing
Tracy Lawrence. So you're like, you know, bringing the drum
parts of like teddy bears and Lonnie Wilson and so you do
everything and that's what I love about your playing is that
you are an all around stylist, musician, and that's why you
having lived in New York and Vegas, perfect city, perfect
city for you to be in tell us about what happened after
college.
Well, after college, you know you graduate with this
performance degree and then you go well, what now? You know, and
it's you know, it's a good isn't exactly a music industry Mecca.
Yeah. There's a lot of creativity there. And there's a
lot of cool stuff happening in the arts world, but to make
money is nearly impossible. And I sort of bumped around if that
go for almost a year until a friend of mine called me up one
day and he said he was going down to New York City to
audition for this cruise ship agency. And he was like, Do you
want to come? And I didn't even have to think about it. I was
like, Yeah, I just, I mean, I was just interested in a free
trip to New York City. I didn't. I wasn't really interested in
working on the ship at all. I'm so
curious as to what this audition was because sometimes, I have
heard about guys doing auditions over the phone where the
contractor is like, Play me a boss up play me a samba plenty
to beat Lamia to force swing. playing rugby
once but it wasn't a cruise ship. It was some other
audition. I did that over the phone once. Yeah, that was
really awkward. Hilarious. But no I so I went down to New York
and I auditioned. In the moment the audition was done. They were
like, great. When can you leave? And I was like, I didn't have a
passport. Like I you know, I had to break my lease for my
apartment at the time. Like, you did thing in order. Nothing.
Yeah. But it was like, Okay, give me a month to get all these
things in order. And I'll do it. And that was it. And a month
later, I was out on the high seas. Okay,
so now, I'm jealous because you're, you're a young man,
you're probably what? 2223 24 years old, something like that.
Right? And I was asked to do so many cruise ship gigs. And I
always managed to stay and I never did. I never went and did
it. I was like, oh my god seeing all these Caribbean and European
beautiful places. And I'm sure just like you're single and then
just the women and the nightlife and, ah, had to be fun, man. It
was fun. It was good fun for a good while. I mean, a lot of it
did depend on the band that you were in who was in the band, you
know who you made friends with? Sort of your circle of friends.
I mean, the status of the band, because there's, there's
featured as they get treated a little bit better, right?
Yeah, yeah. Even like the company that you were working
for, you know, it varied pretty greatly. At the time, I was with
Holland America. And so we were treated quite well I have to say
in hindsight, the ship I was on was an older ship. So the rooms
the cabins were big. And we had a couch and everything in there
like that, you know, that would count Yeah, with the newer
ships. And you know, we could we could walk anywhere in the
passenger areas as long as you were in the correct uniform. And
you know, go to the bars drink or you know, meet the passengers
Yeah, I mean, it was very the food we will get we could eat in
the dining areas. So we didn't have to eat like in the crew
mass area at
all because they're in the bowels of the ship. Yeah, I
mean, the the quality of in food is quite different between the
other is a crew guy give him the swill. Yeah,
I know. Yeah. And if you're out there for like, you know, I
mean, I was doing four month contracts. I mean, they'll get
old really quick, you know, well,
you could get off right and explore like, oh, let's go get
some conch fritters and come on. Now, we
had a lot of time off. Even on a work day, we probably would work
about three or four hours a day if that you know, on some days,
I mean, so you could get off and go see whatever port you were in
and, you know, kind of I mean, you you're in this sort of seven
day pattern. So you start to learn what's where and what
Island and where the good beaches are versus the bad
beaches and all that stuff and you start to figure out those
things out. And yeah, it was a great time. I mean, the
nightlife was fun. You know, like you said, I mean, you're a
single guy, and you're just, you know, out there just yucking it
up with a bunch of other singles.
Didn't you eventually meet your bride on the ship? Eventually?
Yes. It was the Yeah, the the last contracts that both my wife
and I did we met and started dating. And just kind of by
coincidence, we both had the same sign off date of that
contract. Wow. And I told her, I said, you know, I'm moving to
New York City. That was the plan. And I don't know what your
plan is. But it would be great. If you know, you could come to
New York also. Work out. Yeah. So she about a few months later,
she made it to New York, she got a visitor's visa, because she's
from the Philippines originally.
Now, what was she doing? She had to answer. She
was working at the front desk as a receptionist, kind of that
that job. And we wouldn't have met except that she was the
director of the Filipino crew show, which my band had to play
rhythm section four. So like once every two weeks or
something like that, we had to play this show. And she was a
director. And we would play the show. And then after the show,
there'd be a big party in the in the crew area for everyone in
the show. And that was where we met and started mangling. So
mix the mix and mingle now, I usually will listen to one other
podcast to prep for my interviews. And where was this?
You did a gig I'm thinking where you ended up playing the entire
stage. And you're playing stands and monitors and tables and
floors? And yes.
Oh, gosh, we're going back? Well, you're
the guy, you were the guy that you would like it's a it's a
Krupa. thing, let's start on the floor time and then work our way
around the room. Yeah,
it was literally the Sing, sing, sing song. And the bit in the
show was for the drummer to come up, like stand up, like come
around the drums, all while playing the stands and the
cymbals and whatever you could reach, and then eventually make
your way down all the way to the front edge of the stage, and put
on a show with the drumsticks. And like nothing else, there's
nothing, there were two monitors, there's like two wedge
monitors down there. And that was all I had to work with. And
so I started getting into, like figuring out little tricks that
I could do with the sticks and just try to put on a show of
some kind because honestly, I mean, I was so out of my
element, especially the first, like couple times doing it,
because, you know, the drum set is your safety net. You know,
it's like your safety, you feel like you're invincible back
there behind all these drums and cymbals. The moment you leave
the drums, you know, especially for this 25 year old or whatever
I was at the time, you know, it's like, what do I do with my
hands? What how do I stand? You know, like, oh, my gosh, people
are looking at my legs. Like, right, let's do eyewear, you
know, ya know, it's a very uncomfortable feeling when
you're not used to that. And so
yeah, so you benefited because it brought you out of your shell
just a little bit. And you had to learn about Yeah,
I guess so. I mean, I was, yeah. And the singer that I was
working with, I mean, he was, he was, he's a he's a trained
actor. And, you know, he would be on. I think he was in West
End shows and stuff like that in London. And so he would help me
just with a blocking and just always sort of give me helpful
hints about do this, do that don't do that kind of thing. You
know, smile, make sure you smile. And even if inside,
you're like, all torn up, you know, smile. Yeah. I mean, it
goes a long way. You know? What a cool thing, man. Yeah, it was.
And I did that for a long time then. Because he was a headliner
act on the cruise ships. I would travel with him over 10 years, I
did that gig with him while you know, off and on the different
ships and we would go to Europe. I mean, we do the Mediterranean
every summer, and I saw a lot of cool places like that show.
Yeah, man.
You still have the bug to continue to travel
internationally here. And there. You just like I'm cool. I saw
the world.
I mean, I quite a bit. I'm cool. You know, because I have seen a
lot of stuff. Although funny. You mentioned that this morning.
I got a call to play a couple of shows in Japan. Ah, yeah. So I'm
excited about that. Because I haven't been to Japan in gosh,
maybe almost almost 20 years.
I've seen everything but Tokyo got to go to Tokyo.
It's like, it is so wild. There. It's like, I mean, it's it's
fascinating and there's really Nothing like it that I've
experienced because you can't really read the language. Unless
there's something translated. It's almost like being like on
the moon or like an alien planet or something. Because, you know,
you're walking down the street. You can't read any of the street
signs. You don't know what anything is at a hardware store
or at a restaurant. I don't know. You know, it's, it's wild.
Yeah.
It's such an incredibly unique people. You know what I mean?
Yeah.
But and especially, there's so there's so great with musicians
and artists. I mean, there's so attentive, it's the some of the
best audiences I've ever performed for ever. A lot of
respect there for the arts. Oh, man. I mean, we I played the
blue note and Tokyo in Wow, did hear a pin drop in that room.
They're listening. They're listening. They're there to
listen and meet you afterwards. Show you respect. And I mean,
it's, it's wild. It's very different. Yeah. Very cool.
That is so so cool, buddy. Incredible. This is this is my
fourth year of getting this card. This is my card carrying
sag AFTRA. So the idea of like being away from the drums, I was
always a thing, like, and I do something in life that is
creative, where I am not buried behind all this wood and plastic
and metal. And I just pushed myself to do it. And I have a
natural affinity for it. But I could totally relate to that
where it's like, that is our comfort zone back there. And
it's good to occasionally, you know, get up and play a
tambourine and sing a background vocal or jump on some conga
drums. And you know what I mean? Like, get out from that
thing? Yeah. Yeah, it's true. Sometimes I have like guitar or
bass player envy, because these guys can walk around with their
mobile. Yeah. Right and move their, you know, put one leg up
and you know, your back they're like, I can't
move. I wouldn't be dangerous. If I played the bass, I would, I
would work that crowd like it would be criminal. So tell us
what Bureau were you in, in New York, any funny stories?
I live. So I live in Queens. I first started out in Kew
Gardens, which is like way out there. And then eventually, my
wife and I, we moved to Woodside. And we rode the seven
train. I'm a huge New York Mets fan. So we would go see the New
York Mets at Shea Stadium. Anytime that we could we didn't
have a lot of money at the time. So it was you know, it was a big
deal if we were going to the game. But
get that pretzel and hot dog.
Oh man. I mean, yeah. I love baseball. So that I mean, that
was That wasn't why I moved to Queens. It just happened to be
an apartment. A friend of mine had a, you know, a bedroom open
up and an apartment. And that was where I ended up, you know.
But yeah, it was great. I mean, New York, New York will humble
you, man.
Well, yeah, the city that never sleeps, and it's just yeah.
Everything.
Like that's mundane about your life is way more difficult.
They're like doing laundry or just parking your car.
It's a thing. Like, oh, grocery shopping is a thing. Yes,
parking is a thing. And I feel like that in Los Angeles. It's
like, just like, there's so many people in these little boxes and
the sun's beaming down on them. But just just to get into the
Vons parking lot and find a space and just creeping along,
you know, Sunset Boulevard, bumper to bumper. It's a thing,
man. Yes.
For real? Yeah. Yeah, it'll make you grow old faster, I think.
Yeah. I mean, I loved it, you know, but eventually, you know,
when you turn 30 years old, and you start looking at life a
little bit differently, and you start wanting different things.
And you know, and you're looking down the road, 1015 years and
trying to picture yourself, where am I going to be at? You
know, sometimes your priorities change a little bit. I mean,
sure, it asked me, Would I ever leave New York while I was
living there? I will probably would have said No way man like
New York. You know, I'm a New Yorker. You know, I'm tough,
man. Yeah. But eventually, you know, another opportunity comes
up and you go, Okay, this is kind of cool. And this is at a
good time. And so, you know, Vegas here we come. And that was
when I moved to Vegas. And it was like, wow, sunshine, like
320 days of the year. I do
like the sunshine. I'm not crazy about the 100 degrees at night
indulgence. But
right now, he is intense there.
I do spend a lot of time there because my girl, Kara hers folk
her folks are out an anthem. Okay, you sure? Yep. You can see
the city. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah,
it's a different climate. And there's I mean, you know, it's
just different. I mean, the sky is way bigger in the west and
there's mountains and you know, snow atop mountains and stuff
and I mean, the highways are, you know, huge and you know,
really nice because there's not any potholes because they don't
have any winters out there. You know, it's just a whole
different thing out there. You know, what
was what was the gig that brought you there? Well,
it wasn't really. I mean, it was sort of a gig. It started out.
It was a Christmas show that was with that same singer that I was
doing those ship contracts with. And he had, he was living there
at the time, and he knew he was friends with Clint Holmes. All
right, the Clint Holmes was doing a holiday show at the
Sahara. And they got me in on the gig. And that was my first
like, literally, a couple of days after moving there. I was
in a show room at the Sahara, playing with Clint Holmes.
So you did the you're one of the many drummers have done Klinsky
Oh,
yeah, I guess you could say that. Technically. I mean, I
wasn't part of his, his run of shows where he was, I think he
was at the Flamingo. Maybe he was he might he might have
jumped around. He had a band like a show. That was like 567
nights a week. I don't know how, like how often it was. So he had
his guys that he would always call upon, you know, the horn
section and everything. This This was after that had ended
for him. And so he was at the time, he was just kind of
contracting shorter runs. So, yeah.
So because I just had breakfast with our pal Larry aberaman. Do
you know, Larry, he did Zumanity for 18 years. Right. So I saw
the first night of Zumanity opening night. Wow. Crazy. It
was crazy back in the day. And we kept in touch over the years
fantastically. Of course, you've lived here now.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We knew each other a little bit in Vegas. I
went to his senior recital, when he was finishing it. I think it
was his graduate degree. You got to add to UNLV. Yeah, yeah. And
so I knew he was playing. He's a great player. And I did see him
play the show. Also, there's humanity show, although you
wouldn't really see him because he was hidden away
the whole entire show styles. Lot of styles.
Yeah, that was wild. He did that show for a long time. And so
yeah, he's here now. And you know, we since had coffee, I
don't know the months ago and hooked up. And he's been
throwing me work even like, that's perfect.
Well, this, but he's that kind of Larry's that guy like
yourself. It's like you're cut from the same cloth. And I
consider myself the same way. But no one would know it because
everyone just says he's the bass rock. Because we're on tour
together. It's easy to see like, that's what he does. Right. But
I mean, you guys can cover just about anything in you. And you
read, and you got a great musical mind. So I could see how
you would throw each other work would be me.
Yeah. Yeah. I kind of it kind of fits. I think so. Yeah. About
being versatile and authentic in whatever style that you're, you
know, trying to perform. So. Yeah, Larry's great. And I have
so much respect for him. I mean, he, he came to town and it was
just like, he just got thrown right into the scene. He got
busy fast. Yeah. Yeah. And there's no wonder why. I mean,
he's, you know, he
can cover it. Well, you too. And we were you know, we were doing
the Tracy Lawrence thing together. And I, we had a good
what? 20? Something 30 shows?
I don't know if it was that much. Or maybe it was
maybe it was 2015 to 20 shows Maybe? Probably
less than that. Even maybe 10 show like that.
Did we do we did we do the one is the venue in the north? I
want to say like eight shows I do we do Guilford together New
Hampshire where they where we got to hang because we did two
nights. Yes. And they've got the they got a cigar bar. They got a
Whiskey Bar. They got Oh, man the whole backstage. firepits.
That's impressive back there. Yeah.
The best hospitality.
Best totally, totally. And, you know, and you and I were having
fun because we were sitting on in on each other's kids too.
Yeah, I remember I got pictures of me playing your kit. And and
I've some pictures and video of you playing Mike it too. Yeah.
Fun. So yeah, obviously, you know, our setups are just
completely different from each other. So we were both kind of
like, how the hell do you play this thing? Well, everybody,
everybody sits down. What is going on with a snare drum like,
I don't know, man, I just set it up that way the first time and I
never changed it. That was 40 something years ago. So tell us
about the traditional grip. I know you wanted to talk about
that. You know, I started playing drums in 76. And my
teacher was a rock drummer who played match scripts. So
literally, I never learned to play traditional grip. I think
it's so cool, especially when you're playing you know, bumps,
bumps, bumps, bang, and you get the cigarette hanging out of
your mouth. And it just got a thing to it. Right.
Yeah. I mean, you know, to be honest, I grew up playing match
grip, also, all the way up into my senior year of high school.
And I had this great band director, Peter Drew, if you're
listening, you know and what's up Peter? Yeah, he he brought he
would bring in guest artists from time to time so I remember
he brought in Bob mincer once and yeah Y'all got to play with
him. But one one time he brought in this guy named Jim Pietrzak.
Now if you know that name, but Jim used to teach at SUNY.
It was Sutter's, that was Sutter's teacher. Yep. It was
the northern one. What does it not purchase? Yep, yeah. And so
he came down and did like a master class with the Jazz
Ensemble. And then I stayed late and had a little drum lesson
with him. Well, he's a Trad grip player. And turns out I think he
taught Dave Weckl in his early years. And so yeah, there was
this lineage of like, you know, some of his students and so I
had no interest in learning traditional grip whatsoever at
the time, but he just insisted on showing it to me showed me
the grip, he showed me how it worked. And I was kind of like,
you know, I'm a senior in high school, like, I'm ready to go to
music school. I'm like, I'm not gonna start over with a new
grip. Like, what are you doing? Yeah, killing me here. No. But
funny enough, you know, as, as the weeks after that lesson went
by, I started just sort of messing around with it at home.
And like, on my lessons, just doing my snare drum etudes and
stuff. And it's, I just noticed that it felt different. Like
something about it, the stick bounces different something it's
like, and then I started to, well, let's try this on the
drumset and see if that feels, you know, and I mean, I remember
feeling really awkward at first and really like, Man, my left
hand is like a piece of meat right now, you know, and I still
can picture myself trying to hit the left side crash cymbal with
my left hand, and having to like, I remember, like, being
like, what do I do with my elbow? Like, oh, okay, so if I
bring my elbow up like this, it's easier. If I put this maybe
if I put the symbol higher, well, that works too. Okay? You
know, or like hitting the hit the symbol of my elbow comes
down like this, Oh, okay. You know, all these little things
that you start figuring out. And it just started me on a journey
with that, and I'll say this simultaneously, you know, I'm,
like I said, ready to go to music school. I was, at the time
just checking out all the great jazz and fusion drummers of the
time. So yes, Dave Weckl, Vinnie Colaiuta, Steve Gadd chambers
yeah Dennis chant, like all the all the guys, you know, and
going back further, a lot, you know, into the sort of straight
ahead jazz world you know, Tony Williams, DEC Jack vision net,
Max Roach, Elvin Jones, all tragic grip players. So I'm
like, Okay, there's something here that I want to copy and
become that Yeah. And so I just stuck with it. And before you
know it, I just started playing like that. Probably 90% of the
time.
It's great that you stuck with it because sometimes when we're
presented a situation like this is incredibly awkward. Like me
working on my acoustic guitar chops. It'd be like my fat
fingers. This isn't happening. I my right hand. Like my right
hand is great because I can go dang J gauging the left hand is
just
thought and I'm like, I know same. I'm like all cramping up
and Yeah, same. Yeah, totally.
But it's cool. Now did you do you do a guy in Vegas? He was in
we were in school together. We're in the two o'clock lab and
together Un t he played with the Frankie Valli show, or it was he
played with was a Mamma Mia or what's the Frankie Valli show
where the drummer's on stage boys dirty boys. So Don Milolii
I know I'm very well. So Don and I were in college together and I
forget what they used to call him. He had a great nickname but
dance, he's switching college to traditional grip. I'm like you
are brave. Do you have to rebuild everything in it ended
up working out great, you know, he ended up sounding sounding
great with him. I was like, I don't think I can do I don't
think I can keep up with everything I'm responsible for.
And go back to square one.
Well, I'll say this. I mean, it's been a long journey with
the track grip. I mean, there are times periods of my life
where I developed some pain and some problems and really had to
sort of take a few steps back and re examine everything and my
setup changed. There was a deep into a double DVD that Steve
Smith came out with I was would have been like early 2000s. And
he talked about the grip and like the motion and stuff and it
really kind of showed me I was like, oh, there was a few like
key ingredients that I had missed along the way. I mean
that the main thing that was the hardest developed to develop was
the power right this to getting the same power as the match
grip. It was the hardest thing to develop and having the
endurance and the You know,
did you ever get one of those giant key Carla goiters in there
in the in the corner like, wow, you can name him
to this day I yeah, I mean it's you know, especially if I play
like a lot of hours, you know? Yeah, a little bit I have a good
little you know, Callison there.
He mean back in the day when we were kind of in Dallas kind of
coming up he was playing a group called Dallas brass and electric
he just swept and back in Utah. He had this giant thing. Yeah,
crazy. Yeah. And I I watched his grip too. And I don't know how
he does what he does, because he does it different than I do. He
holds the stick back further. And my I owe us much more of a
molar kind of a stroke where it's, you know, the power is
coming from the shoulder and the upper arm. Yeah, you're just
whipping it down. I don't see him doing that as much. He's
much more like just straight up and down. And he's using the
thumb and very open handed like, I don't I don't know how he does
also what's what's, it's heartbreaking when I would watch
this happen and be like, how does he do that? I can't do
that. It's never gonna work for me. Whenever he plays it back,
me he plays for notes, he played cetera, et cetera, et cetera,
right? I mean, I mean, oh, my god, pocket and the power and
then be these four other notes, posted
notes. I know, I know. Well, and that's the beauty of the tread
grip is that the hand is under the stick. So it's a lot easier
to bounce the stick, really, it's just you just kind of let
it go. And it does what it's gonna do, you know, whereas with
the mask grip, your hand is over the stick. And now you sort of
have to almost manipulate it to get four bounces like that, you
know, it's a different technique. But yeah, one is not
better than the other, they're just different and I still will
switch back to match grip for certain things. If I if I want
to get into a character like I don't know, John Bonham or you
know Keith Moon or something and just think of players like that
bring
their essence out. Yeah, yeah, you know, then
I'll try then I will switch to match I'll still use the butt
end of the stick and just you know, AC DC, you know, style.
So who so who would have been your your whole your holy grails
your Mount Rushmore wars of drumming heroes? Is it with the
typical guys are there some guys that we were like, Oh, that's
interesting. That's pretty unique.
I always gravitated and still do to the clean players. The studio
guys so gad was my first like, oh my god, this guy is the best
light and godly trees time. Yeah, exactly. Now, have you met
Steve? Steve got no I've never know. I've seen him play twice
with James Taylor. I've never seen him up close even playing
you know, it's always been, you know, at the arenas and stuff
and maternal clock. Oh, he's incredible. He's just to this
day.
I mean, he's one of a kind.
He's at my gosh, he's just killing it out there. You know?
Yeah. So he was the first one that I really got into and I you
know, I had lesson lessons with different instructors along the
way who showed me some of the stuff that he was like the six
stroke roll and the stuff that he was into the random accuse
and the army and of that solo that he would always play.
Did you pick up the Gammons book?
I have it Yeah, it's it's amazing. Oh my gosh, yeah, it's
kicking my butt that thing. I need to work more out of it.
Because
that's gonna be my my backstage warmup this year. I was
flam tap, just go slow. Like you don't even need to play it fast.
Like just go slow. And it's like, oh my word. I started like
seeing stuff come out of my playing just like well, I don't
even mean for that to happen. Awesome. But ya know, like, I
always gravitated towards the clean players like John J.
Robinson. I mean, you know, obviously, Jeff Porcaro. You
know weckl Vinnie, all those main guys all those like guys
that are just super articulate. I love Phil Collins growing up,
you know, I'm a I'm a child of the 80s. So, anything with Phil,
I can instantly recognize Phil Collins playing like, how does
he do that? Like how, how does he play a back beat groove? Like
nobody else can? I just don't know.
What's that? What's that song from Genesis or his solo career?
I forget but it's there's a horn section. And there's a handclap
on beat three.
And that was a Genesis song. Yeah, what did the name of that
No, no, no, no. No reply. No reply at all with the horn
section. Fantastic. Man. I
have studied that track and still do and that's a good one.
Try to make it feel like that is all my gosh, yes.
So definitely the clean players me as well. Because I had a
studio mentality is like how can I get in that room with all
those microphones and create some think that'll last forever
that people were in elevators, and supermarkets. Okay, you
gotta learn how to play clean. But also, interestingly, in
another way equally beautiful is I wouldn't consider Keith Moon
clean at all, but it is so
perfect. Yeah, in a way. It's very precise. You're
just like Zig who is not? Right. bleen but it's perfect. Richie
Hayward was not, but perfect. But yeah.
Even Ringo. I mean, yeah, I agree. Charlie Watts, you know?
Sure. I mean, yes. Those those players that you mentioned, have
that swagger. You know, but But you wouldn't put Charlie Watts
in on a click track with like, a studio band. You know, I don't
think anyway. No, I don't think that ever happened. You know?
Don't know, I mean, but then you can go to Ronnie Scott's with
his band and play springs bang. Right. Well,
and that's what he would write. I mean, that was really that was
what he really wanted to do. From what I know, Oh, yeah.
Now what about what's your jazz Holy Grail? Mount Rushmore?
Gosh,
I mean, you know, when I was young, I mean I was just being
fed from my I come from a musical family so my father my
uncle's my grandfather, you know, multiple generations. So
all of my family members and friends of theirs were feeding
me all sorts of records to check out James Brown tower power
earth when a fire Sly and the Family Stone blood sweat and
tears shot day early Whitney Houston you know all the like
the you know, Luther Vandross, Rose, anything jazz r&b, soul,
Aretha Franklin? Gosh, Anejo King Curtis,
I got my reads a shirt on baby.
Bam. There you go. Yeah. Nice. I love it. You know, I grew up on
all of that stuff. And I forget the question now.
But oh, yeah. Who is your jazz? Oh, yeah. Now. So,
you know, I was just more and more getting into jazz,
especially my one uncle, who went to Eastman as a piano
player. And, you know, he makes his living as a as a pianist.
Oh, wow. So he would, he would come home from LA and have this
pile of CDs like for me to check out. And it would be a lot of it
would be a lot of pretty hardcore, you know, straight
ahead jazz stuff. That you know, at the time, I would never have
heard of, you know, a lot of old Herbie stuff old miles records.
Gosh, all sorts of stuff. I mean, you know, stuff with Elvin
Jones on it. Art Blakey, I mean, just on and on and on, you know,
so that was how I started getting into and just kind of,
it was sort of bending my ear in that direction. To start hearing
straight ahead, jazz and just getting used to that sound, you
know, which was a different, completely different style
playing, obviously. And then you go to go to music school, and
you want to get into the Jazz Ensemble and the big band and
you want to you know, and you're playing with your friends and
you're planning and combos and booking gigs at the local cafes
and stuff, like all the stuff all you just learning tunes, and
you know, playing stuff out of the real book, and you know,
you're just, you're just learning, learning, learning all
the while and, and eventually, I heard Bill Stewart, the drummer
Bill Stewart play match, on a bill Shar lap record. And it was
it was just a moment of like, oh, my, that's how I want to
sound like, again, super clean, like his jazz playing is some of
the cleanest you know, and the way he executes his ideas and
he's so musical and his phrasing and the way he'll he'll take a
motif and he'll like, expand it and turn it upside down and play
it backwards and invert it and Oh, my I just I just connected
with his playing on such a level and then just, you know, just
the sound of his drums. So clean and crisp, the sound of his ride
cymbal and like the feel that he got on his ride cymbal, when you
know he'd be playing ride and not even playing the hi hat and
to enforce just the right thing. Second ng deck, you know, it was
just very open, very modern and contemporary. I just fell in
love with Bill store. And I just had to learn how to play like
him and I went down the rabbit hole with him. And I like how
you
own the fact that you're just like, look, I'm an all around
musician. I'm an all around drummer. I'm also I'm a jazz
drummer like you will just when I moved here in 97, the Tommy
wells guy was a soul, he said Don't say the word jazz. Yeah.
I've had conversations with other musicians in Nashville
about that one quite recently. Actually,
I like how you just own it. You're like, look at I do this,
and I do that.
Well, and I think that if you do things authentically that it
won't count against you, you know, maybe some people from the
outside looking in, don't agree or don't just don't know. Or
they maybe they just kind of, you know, write you off.
Hopefully not. No, yeah. I hope. I hope not, you know, but like
it or not, it's part of who I am as a musician. And I love that
music. And I don't want it to die. And I think there's a
healthy jazz community here in Nashville. I mean, I'll say
this. When I when I decided to move to Nashville. I didn't
think I'd ever played another jazz gig again.
I mean, I let some of it atrophy a little bit. I think that the
culture of having Rudy's jazz room has really helped the
scene.
Absolutely. That is a goldmine of it place, please, if you come
to Nashville, go to Rudy's jazz room, and you
got to go to Rudy's. And then the other place, I say that
everyone has you got to go to Robert's western world because
they the 1950s. country with the pearl snaps and the whole thing.
Yeah,
I agree on both levels. Yeah. You know, well, you know, little
did I know in Nashville, there's a healthy jazz scene there. But
I did not expect that when I moved here. And I mean, I moved
here sight unseen. I mean, I just came here and I was like,
I'm moving to Nashville. I've never been there. I don't know
anybody there hardly at all. I'm just gonna go there. Because
somebody told me that I would do well, there
was that Christie mana and Bill Warner was Yeah. Now Bill. Now
for those that aren't in the know. Like Christy's award
winning songwriter and her husband Bill. I've been done a
million sessions for Bill probably until he met you. But
he was like, Hey, you gotta you gotta. You got to check this kid
out. He's doing a great job with this tribute show we're doing I
keep telling him to move to town. And I'm glad you did it
been? Yeah,
yeah. It was a big step. You know, and I mean, because I was
pretty well established in Vegas. And, you know, but I just
wasn't happy there anymore. And you know, and it made sense for
my family as well. My son was born at that point, he was
pretty much ready to go to kindergarten in the schools in
Vegas. I don't
think so Barry was saying and Larry is saying they're a little
rough. Yeah. So
you know, that was a big part of it as well. So it just made
sense for all three of us, really, my wife and my son and
I, for me, you know, career wise, I had sort of hit the
glass ceiling. I had already had my own show for a year, I was
subbing in on any number of shows on any given week, up and
down the strip. I had my own jazz trio. I had my own rock
band that was like a cover band. We were playing the lounges. I
was doing tribute shows I was I was just all over. I mean, I was
my head was spinning. I mean, I had three kits at any property
at any, you know, I remember one,
that's a bonafide business. You are a small business owner
entrepreneur, and it was working. But man,
yes, I was burning out is what was really happening. Yeah, that
can happen. Because Because I found there to be a lot of sort
of mediocrity in the musicianship. There in Vegas,
there's a lot of like, attitude about, like, just do the bare
minimum so that we don't get fired. Kind of a thing. Yeah.
And I don't like that music is more to me than that I have to
have it has to be special for me. And so, you know, it was
really kind of rubbed me the wrong way, in a lot of ways. And
I just, you know, again, looking down the line, 1015 years. I'm
like, What's, what else is here? For me? We're all where am I
going to be in 10 years? Probably going to be doing the
same thing I'm doing right now. And I want more than that. Yeah,
that's
that was my Dallas. Yeah, laundry. I was like, I think
industry you have to go where there's more stuff happening
where there's a bigger pond with bigger fish swimming in that
pond. Yeah. Yeah. And so and that's how you keep learning to
I mean, oh my gosh, the leaps and bounds that I've grown since
you know, I moved here. Oh, my gosh, you know, just just
learning the Nashville Number System, which I did that like
the first week I moved to Nashville, knowing full well
that this is going to happen one day, I'm gonna be you know, I'll
be on a session and somebody's gonna hand me a chart and I'm
gonna go What the heck is this? You know, I didn't want that.
Hey, it's
glad you checked it out in advance. I did not I learned on
the go
scary. Oh, my gosh, I would have been pooping my pants. I mean,
yeah. But you know, I learned it. And you know, I realized, I
mean, I said to myself, like, where has this been my whole
life. I could have used this In all the years that I've been
playing in my career, why don't they teach this in the music
schools?
So Jim Riley says songs ready made easy. He's like everyone in
the world should be using the system.
They should be teaching this at every music school, at least at
least in the drumset world and, you know, rhythm section world.
Because I remember looking at, you know, making old charts, and
it's like, you know, Count 16 bars, and what's the Count 16
bars on a gig? I don't, you know, makes no sense to me. And
you're not thinking in a musical way when you're counting to 16?
You
know, because like, well, you know, I do I do like drum phrase
charts in the sense that if they're detailed enough, because
most likely, if it's a 16 bar phrase, you're gonna have to
break it up into eight and eight, because maybe the kick
drum pattern will change, or maybe something, a voice will
change your
transcription. That's one thing, you know, I'm just talking about
like, sketch, you know, skeleton charts where you're just like,
you don't even know the song. And you're like, Well, I know,
the bridge is eight bars, okay. You know, that kind of thing,
where you just kind of like throwing music together for
some, you know, show that you're playing tomorrow night, you
know, and there's 45 Songs to Learn, you know? Yeah. With the
number system, it's just, we just what makes way more sense.
And I just remember thinking like, wow, this really would
have been helpful to know, like, all those years ago. Yeah. So it
is, it is incredibly efficient. And it does make what we do in
Nashville, and helps that efficiency, because, you know,
we are cranking out songs. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah,
that's right. And I mean, just, you know, in the different bands
and ensembles that I'm playing with right now. I mean, I still
I'm writing I wrote a chart last night, you know, yeah.
No, oh, he's writing a chart. Hey, tell us about the Mannheim
steamroller thing, because is it? I think that you do that
seasonally. That's your Trans Siberian. Right. But a little
bit about the history of Mannheim, I think it's chip
Davis. Right. Davis is still alive. Yes. And he's got
multiple versions of the band. Right? Well, there's
okay. Yes. So there's that. So traditionally, there are two
bands that go out a red band and a green band, and they go out
simultaneously to tour one takes the East Coast, sort of east of
the Mississippi and the other one goes on the West Coast and
kind of hits the Rockies and whatnot. And they swap every few
years. So you're gonna you know, depending on what you're you're
up to your itinerary changes, but and then in addition to
those two bands, there is another production where they
play I think last year, they played two weekends in Orlando
at Disney with like a symphonic whole. Symphony symphony. I
don't know how many piece maybe. So but and he conducts that
nice. His you know, he doesn't go out in the road anymore. But
he's the creator of the entire thing. He he wrote all the
arrangements, or at least co wrote the arrangements. Yeah,
he's done really well with that. And it's been a huge success for
him.
The most the most famous song being parallel to bills. I
guess. So. Yeah. And it's a big drum feature. Yeah,
gang, gang, gang, go, go go. Yeah,
that's the big closing number in the show. A lot of fun to play.
So what's the group consist of? Is it like contemporary
ensemble, bass, drums guitar band?
The drumset chair. It's mainly drum set, but I'm also playing
multiple other percussion instruments. I play a lot of
glockenspiel. So orchestra bells toy piano, wow. Various other
percussion like triangle and suspended symbols, stuff like
that. There's a hammer dulcimer part that I play beautiful man.
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty wild. It's pretty all over the place
and just depending on which tunes that they put in the
setlist if they don't, that will change from year to year. And so
that so that's my chair. And then next to me, there is a
percussionist, who plays timpani and all sorts of Bell parts and
mallet parts, hand drums and shakers and doodads tambourines,
and she also plays recorder. So all the recorder parts are
played by Roxanne they're right next to me to my right. The band
has a six piece band, there's a pianist like a piano one he
needs playing a real piano and the other keyboard player he's
on the stage right and he plays the harpsichord and various
other synth patches. And then there is a violinist in the
band, and she's the concert master. And then addition to
her, there's one more Is the bass player but he also kind of
switches on and off between bass and guitar and Lutz and
different, different stringed instruments. Yeah, it's a really
sort of eclectic, pretty unique musical situation for all of us
for all the different chairs. And what's the, in addition to
that they they contract locally, the orchestra. So they have a
string section and plus an oboe player on stage, right. And then
on my side stage left, there's two brass players a trumpet and
a French horn. So they kind of rounds out the whole band.
That's
great. And then how do you guys what is your schedule, like in
the holiday months? And how do you guys travel? Is it bus or
flight?
It's bus. You know, they're based in Omaha. So we'll, we'll
fly to Omaha for a couple of days do rehearsals in their
facility there. And then we'll fly out to wherever the tour
starts and then join the bus. And then you're on the bus for
the next two months, because it's about Yeah, it's about the
seven week tour. And it's it's a grueling schedule. I mean, we
were playing, you know, seven, eight shows a week kind of thing
there.
Do you miss Thanksgiving and Christmas? Well, yeah,
you're away from home for those. Yeah. Now we had. We had
Thanksgiving and Christmas day off. And I think we had
Christmas Eve off too. So yeah, you're you know, that's that can
be challenging with a family especially. Last year wasn't so
bad because we were in Huntsville for Christmas. So
family just drove down. And we stayed in the hotel together.
But yeah, we you know, Thanksgiving, we have a big, you
know, they throw us a big dinner and it's all you know, all the
production people
as the least they can do. Okay, well, that's cool. And then and
then now with that same kind of skill set the reading and the
stylistic interpretation. You're doing some stuff with the
National Symphony, right?
Yeah, yeah. So got kind of hooked up with the Pops
conductor of the National Symphony and Rico. Lopez. Janya
is, I hope I'm saying that right. Yeah. He's wonderful. And
ever since meeting him, we had a nice conversation just about
different, you know, gigs that I was doing, and my background and
stuff. And, you know, Monday came around, and I had an email
from the symphony about, hey, do you want to play this show? And
I was like, wow, that easy. That's incredible. Well, it is
and I'm so grateful for that work. I mean, it is so
incredible to play at the Shermer horn and with the whole
Nashville Symphony and to just write acoustics Yeah, yeah, the
acoustics and just be part of like the, the ensemble I mean,
it just hearing the, the, you know, the orchestra, I'm right
on stage with them and, you know, playing these great pieces
and meeting everyone in the orchestra and, you know, meeting
percussion section Sandbach goes back there, he's Yeah,
I love Sam. Yeah, it's Scott. That's what's named Scott. Yes,
yes.
I don't know. I forget his last name. But the hell we're both
playing. We
both got to take our gingko Belle Bo.
I know. Scott. He's not there every time but what is it? Scott
quarry? Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
Hello, sorry, Scott. Haven't seen in a while, buddy. But
they're going back to like the 90s. I met all these guys, you
know? Oh,
yeah. Yeah. So it's such a good time. I mean, I bring my kid in
there. And I get to choose like which drum kit I want to use for
the show. And, you know, they have all these nice mics that
they're using on the kid. Oh, man. I love just geeking out
with everybody in there. It's just a great time. I played a
whole I don't know how many productions I've played with
them. Now. They're all different. Each one is
different. Sometimes there's a huge percussion section I played
this was one show that was commissioned. Gosh, I'm trying
to remember the name of it now. Shoot, but there was all these
like Haitian drummers, and all these like Latin rhythms. And it
was combined with like a sort of a jazz show there. I was playing
like some swing stuff in the show, like, oh, man, it was It
was wild. What's the
schedule when you do a production with a symphony?
It's,
I mean, it just depends on what, what the what they need. I mean,
I've done you know, shows where it's just like rehearsal in the
afternoon show at night. That's it, you're done. Or else I've
done other shows where it's like, a whole series of
rehearsals and then you know, a series of shows after that.
It's, you know, they're never they never run too long. You
know, usually, a show will last like three performances or so
like a Friday, Saturday, Sunday kind of thing.
Does that go into your
AFM pension? Yes. That's all union. Yeah. Beautiful
that Symfon because I talked to Neil Grover I was telling Neil
Grover about my pension because my pension is based on recording
sessions that I do that get airplay. Right. Is pension was
based on every live performance he did with the Boston Symphony
for 40 years.
There you go. Yeah.
You know, I mean, it's, that's where being a symphonic musician
really pays off.
Oh, yeah. I mean, those guys who are in the orchestra if you're
the principal timpanist or, you know, I mean, yeah, you're
working. You're making money and you're doing well. Yeah. I mean,
I don't know. I don't know what the numbers are. But I mean, I
can only imagine, you know, it's, you know, I mean, they
have their seasonal it's not like they they're not playing
all year long. You know, they have they're on season and they
have an offseason. I think they're off during the most of
the summer, and then they go back on in the fall again, and
then through Christmas. So but yeah, what a great gig, you
know, if you can land a gig like that, you know, I mean, for me,
I'm just contracted as a sideman with them. So when it when they
need a drumset player, who, you know, they can count on for
time, or playing styles or whatever and read the part and
stuff. Then they call me and I know I'm not the only one
either. There's other guys that they call on town, too. So it's
not like I'm well
God rest his soul. Bob meter was one of them. I believe he was a
stylish guy. I don't know how long list is, but I'm gonna try
to get on that thing way down the list. I just want to get on
a list. That sounds sexy. Because what I what I'm getting
from our conversation is that there is a lot of underbelly
opportunities that no one would normally think of that you're in
the mix with. There is a lot of work out there. These corporate
parties, the jazz brunches, the symphony, these tribute shows
you got your own band. Yeah,
you have to be versatile. I mean, a gig like playing with
the symphony. It's like, you got to follow the conductor, man,
like you got to play soft. You know, when they asked you to
play soft, and I mean, socked? You know, you think you're
playing soft, no play like way softer.
You have to judge it based on the dirty looks you're getting
from the violin section. Oh,
that's always I mean, forget. I mean, like, Yeah, I think they
even you're not even set up yet. And you're getting the dirty
looks like thanks a lot. Ya know, I try to win them over,
you know, I try to be you know, be super friendly with them.
And, you know, and hopefully my playing wins them over by the
end of the show, or whatever, because I want them to like me,
you know, it's like, I'm trying to be a musical drummer, you
know, is playing music on these drums? You know, I
don't have chocolate, they'll pass out snow. That's what my
grandfather would do. He would have had lilies little he always
had these little Jordan almonds in his coat somewhere. And he
would triple these. You know,
I needed to do that. Jordan, almonds. Let's
bring him back. I didn't know if they make them anymore. candy
coated almonds. Right. Yeah. All right. Well, I think it's great.
And then as far as your home tracking, are you on air gigs
and sound better.com to get the one or
both of those? You know, years ago, I was getting some traction
on air gigs. And then it sort of, I guess maybe COVID just
killed? I don't know, just it tapered off one day, one day,
and it never came back and sound better. I got on there. I don't
know. Maybe like two years ago, I forget what it was. But, man,
I haven't had one. It's been like, like, a ghost town for me.
I'm trying to figure out like, how, how do I break through the
noise on those sites?
I don't I just don't like that. You have to put your pricing on
there. Because a lot of people are like that. Yeah, like I'm
shopping for a great drummer for under $100 A song you know, I
mean, it's a race to the
bottom in a lot of ways, you know, and I don't I mean, yeah,
I'm not charging $100 I'm charging more than that.
I guess, as you should, as you should. And this is what I tell
teachers and people that are doing home recording sessions.
You have an advanced degree. You've been playing drums since
the 70s 80s. Well,
a professionally since when did you start? 90 ish, like Yeah,
okay, so
we're talking decades here. Yeah. I don't want to anger any
misuses that are listening right now. We all need you. We love
you. We understand that you understand how the human body
works and trigger points and different are we doing Swedish?
Are we doing athletic? What do we I get it, but I don't know
how long you go to school? Six months, maybe a year? Yeah, you
make a they make $80 an hour? It's $1 a minute plus usually a
$20. Tip. Yeah. So then why are drummers charging $25 an hour
for a drum lesson or $100 a track? No, you're way off and
you're bringing the whole thing way down?
Yes, the bar is going way too low, to
charge at least $1 a minute for your skill. said that his highly
developed you, you invested in yourself, you paid for higher
education, your gear bill, all the practice all the
sacrificing, come on, and
just you know, I'm here I'm engineering everything myself,
you know? It's not you know, I mean you have to charge so much.
Yeah, it's it's a it's a job man. And I mean, it's a fun job
don't get me you know I wouldn't do it if it wasn't fun. You
know,
there's harder ways to make money here. Sure.
But but there's a huge skill set involved and yeah, it's Yeah,
people's need to stop chasing each other to the bottom of the
scale there. Yeah. So hopefully, I don't know, let's Yeah, let's
spread the
word charge what you charge and proudly own it. Because you
know, you know that deep down your soul you're worth that
amount? Yeah.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, you know, and you work as hard as you and
I have developed these skills now, not only drumset wise, but
you know, the miking and the, you know, and then all the posts
stuff. I mean, you know, all
the file management, well, you're a brave man, I bring in
my drum tech, and we do it together, and I got a stroke him
some money. So I lose a bit some profit, but
the workflow, I've thought about doing that, the joy
and the work, the workflow is more pleasant, because I have to
deal with the file management. Right
in there are some clients that I work with, who want me to
actually, like, mix the drums, or the song or the record, it's
like, you know, jeez, man, like, I'm not, you know, I didn't go
to school for that, you know, I'm just self taught. I yeah, I
watch a lot of YouTube. You know,
that's when I would say, you got this, I'm sending you the raw
performance, you know,
I mean, yeah, you know, it's, it can be challenging. And I've had
to learn that the hard way. I've had to learn to ask that.
Because, you know, I would send files in there that were raw and
mixed. And then the song would come out. And I'd be like, why
the drum sound raw? Like, you just you didn't you didn't mix
anything. You do that? Hello? Yeah. Yeah. So you learn the
hard way. That and then you go okay, so you want me to mix
this, then? You know, I'll probably charge you a little bit
more to do that. Which is valid. Yeah. Yeah. Totally valid, you
know, but, but I find, I find enjoyment in it, because I get
better and better at it as each time I do it. You know, and you
find new ways to, to mix and to totally solve problems and
whatnot. Yeah,
I love it. I love it. I mean, at the end of the day, we're making
a difference to people's lives. We're helping bring their art to
life. It's it's a really, it's a grand calling it really is. And
oh, it's great.
I mean, you know, I've always just wanted to be a session guy
like, you know, I mean, I love playing live Be careful
what you wish for because you know
sometimes yeah, I've talked to guys in town who are like known
as session guys and sometimes they're kind of dark sometimes
and saying things like I don't actually listen to the music
that I record and stuff and it makes me wonder like, really?
Yeah, like
well, you know, Johnny Depp says he's never watched a daily event
or se in any of his films, which I cannot even how would you not
just by accident, see? Sleepy Hollow or Pirates of the
Caribbean? Come on,
right? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm just trying to cobble
a living together.
You're doing it man. You're doing it you're you know, you're
in you know, beautiful Tennessee here. You got a studio in your
house. You got the you know, bed people downstairs, you know, I
mean, you're doing the thing, man. So now you're a veteran of
three major music cities, you've received a lot of advice. Now
that you're an eight year veteran of Nashville, somebody's
moving to Nashville. What would you tell them?
Well, if they're, I mean, if they're just getting started
with their career, if they're young, you know, maybe right out
of school or whatever. Just have a system for learning new music
is a big one. Because you're just gonna get thrown all the
songs all at once. And you're gonna be expected to know it
onstage. Yeah. And, you know, just be as versatile as you can.
Don't be like super, you know, like, I pick Yeah, like listen
to listen to multiple styles and don't if you're a country guy,
don't just listen to country, check out some r&b stuff, check
out pop or, you know, maybe a jazz record or you know, or like
an acoustic record of some sort or, you know, just find other
things to dig in on to sort of sponge into your playing. Yes.
You know, and again, all always being authentic, always having
coming from an authenticity point of view, because people
can smell a fake a mile away, even, you know, even, you know,
other people that other listeners who aren't musicians,
you know, they can smell a fake. And so, learn your styles, you
know, learn you know, if you're a guitar player learn your learn
how to get tones and copy, you know, the tone that's from the
record or whatever it is, you know. I, you know, I'm a big fan
of learning to read music because I It helps me it helps
me on shows, and I don't have to memorize things. I can just read
it. And I can play it like, like I memorized it is everybody in
that room, including the artist. I've played entire shows where
they never knew you're reading, but you, the artists never
right. He was like, Thanks for memorizing all my stuff. And I
read the whole darn thing. I counted it off. I led the whole
thing. He never I fooled him completely.
Dude, I do the same thing. I will write that stuff out.
Reading music is the literally the cornerstone of my
educational philosophy. To me, I consider it even more important
than rudiments. Because if you can play a couple of great
beats, and you get a good sound on your instrument, what's going
to propel your career is not the ability to do a five stroke roll
Believe me, you're going to need it. But your ability to learn
lots of material quickly.
Yeah, yeah, that's in Nashville. That's big time the name of the
game. And and I'll say this, like being comfortable with
playing something that you don't know, like you get called to do
on Broadway and you get somebody requests a song and you're the
only guy in the band that doesn't know the song. Well, you
better get used to that feeling because that's going to happen,
and you better know how to fake it. And
hopefully the bass player like look at straight A's medium rock
four on the floor, watch me for the stops know what to ask for
all that stuff. How does it start? How does it end?
Right? All that stuff? Yes, exactly. That's a good skill
set.
I'm just so happy. You're here, man. And we just you know, we we
didn't get to spend enough time together as like, you know, on
that tour together. But yeah, you know, I want to come see
Mount Juliet, you
play man, I just I was really, you know, you are the ultimate
like stadium rock drummer. I love watching. You're so
entertaining to watch, to play and to listen to obviously. I
mean, you got such a killer groove. But like, just visually,
you're just a lot of fun to watch. And I take inspiration
from that.
Oh, thank you. It means so much to me, man. I just a big fan of
everybody check out Brian zak.com and that's CZ. ach.com.
He's a member of the Polish American club, you know, pink
cup. And I always tell everybody Hey, you got to learn how to
train me and you got to learn the two step pink app and Cappy.
But no, there's there's actually a video of you recite reading a
Big Bang track and it sounds incredibly good.
Thanks, man. Thanks. Yeah, that's a skill I worked on long
and hard. And you know, it's all through school. And, you know,
and beyond even, you know, on the cruise ships, and you'd get
thrown these these shows, and, you know, these charts that are
sometimes they're a mess, and sometimes they're immaculate,
but you got to read that stuff. Like you own it, you know? Yeah,
I worked on that really, really hard. I loved playing in the big
band. It's equally as satisfying is playing in a kick ass rock
band, because a great big band that swings together that moves
as an organism and trusts their drummer. Oh, it's a great one.
Yeah. You know, Ellington, Basie, and then you got into the
the modern the nestico stuff in the mincer stuff. And the Gordon
Goodwin big fat wall. That's a band who
Oh, I love it. I love all of that stuff. You know, really,
really great. Hey, we're gonna close out with the Fave Five.
What's your favorite color?
Usually Green.
Green. I don't get a lot of greens, man.
Yeah, I like I like purple too. But green, green and purple.
What about your favorite food favorite dish?
Oh, gosh. It's gotta be Italian. Probably. I love going to Italy.
Yeah, like I like a good carbonara. Very
nice. And yeah, well, you know, as far as a drink, would you
pair that with a red? What would you do? What's your favorite?
Tip classico
all the way? Oh, like Italian table one. Yeah, and I'm not
Italian one bit but I just love Italian.
I'm not Polish but I love perogies and I my ex wife was
Polish and so we go up to Michigan and like eat the heck
out of those parolees. Yeah,
yeah, that stuff Well, same thing with the with the Italian.
Dude.
What is this is kind of a tough one. But what is your favorite
song in the sense that this thing comes on the radio and you
are going to crank that thing up, man?
Gotta be Phil Collins something Phil Collins probably probably
in the air tonight. Why not write breathless Gibberish
Gibberish Gibberish or maybe yeah, or maybe like, easy lover.
Dude with Philip Bailey. Yeah, well Got a drum sound what a
drum part.
Yes. just crank it well, massive
application of the six stroke roll.
Yeah. Yeah.
I love it. And then your favorite movie? Oh, gosh.
Maybe I'm lost in translation.
Classic Coppola. Yeah. So awkward.
Yes. There's, you know, we're gonna come full circle now
because, you know, talking about going to Tokyo and Japan. watch
that film. And you see, and I remember watching that film
after being in Tokyo. And I was like, that's how I felt. The way
Bill Murray's walking around and just like, yeah, just like,
gawking, you know, it's just strange. Strange.
That may December romance is also kind of highlighted. Yeah,
you know, and you just end up hating RBCs character. You're
like, What is wrong with you? Your wife is awesome. I know. I
know. It's crazy. What's the best way for people to get in
touch you contact with your brand? zack.com Yeah,
probably or just on social you know, at Brian Zach on Instagram
or Facebook. I mean, I you know, I'm on all the time easy to find
just my name. Yep.
That's what I say. I'm a sitting duck on the Google inator man.
Well, I'm gonna come out and visit with you man and the mount
Juliet's. Let's do it. Yeah. And, man, congratulations on
your Nashville journey. You're just taking it by storm. Great,
great to have you on here. And hey, to all the listeners.
Thanks for tuning in. Be sure to subscribe, share rate and review
that helps everybody find the show. And until next time, we're
gonna be here. We'll see you next time. Brian. Thanks, man.
Take care. This has been the rich Redmond show. Subscribe
rate and follow along at rich redman.com forward slash
podcasts.