{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":7.56,"endTime":10.29,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":7.56,"endTime":10.29,"body":"the IT Matters podcast, where we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":10.29,"endTime":13.92,"body":"explore why it matters and"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":10.29,"endTime":13.92,"body":"matters pertaining to it."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":16.84,"endTime":21.04,"body":"Welcome back to the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":16.84,"endTime":21.04,"body":"IT Matters podcast. We are on"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":21.04,"endTime":25.39,"body":"lucky number 13. It is episode"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":21.04,"endTime":25.39,"body":"13 today, thank you for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":25.39,"endTime":29.44,"body":"listening. Remember to subscribe"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":25.39,"endTime":29.44,"body":"on your favorite podcast"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":29.44,"endTime":34.18,"body":"platform. Although, I did just"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":29.44,"endTime":34.18,"body":"find out Stitcher is no longer"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":34.18,"endTime":37.0,"body":"going to be a platform, so if"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":34.18,"endTime":37.0,"body":"you are listening on Stitcher,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":37.27,"endTime":40.87,"body":"switch to Apple or Spotify or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":37.27,"endTime":40.87,"body":"something else and subscribe to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":40.87,"endTime":44.92,"body":"us. So, excited to have you on"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":40.87,"endTime":44.92,"body":"for an episode that we have not"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":44.92,"endTime":48.37,"body":"really done in the past before."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":44.92,"endTime":48.37,"body":"We're excited to do this, it's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":48.37,"endTime":50.74,"body":"going to be a little bit more of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":48.37,"endTime":50.74,"body":"a focus on a specific"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":50.74,"endTime":53.5,"body":"technology. Today we're going to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":50.74,"endTime":53.5,"body":"be talking with Jason"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":53.5,"endTime":58.06,"body":"Christopher from Dragos, which"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":53.5,"endTime":58.06,"body":"is a focused OT technology"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":58.3,"endTime":61.15,"body":"security company. And we're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":58.3,"endTime":61.15,"body":"going to talk about all things"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":61.15,"endTime":65.98,"body":"OT security, what it means why"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":61.15,"endTime":65.98,"body":"people use it, etc. Keith"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":65.98,"endTime":69.19,"body":"Hawkey, my co host, welcome."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":65.98,"endTime":69.19,"body":"Keith, how you doing today?"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":69.43,"endTime":71.32,"body":"I'm doing"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":69.43,"endTime":71.32,"body":"fantastic Aaron, thanks for"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":71.32,"endTime":71.65,"body":"asking."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":71.8,"endTime":74.08,"body":"What's new in the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":71.8,"endTime":74.08,"body":"world of IT and what's new in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":74.08,"endTime":75.01,"body":"the world of Keith?"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":75.0,"endTime":77.31,"body":"What's new in the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":75.0,"endTime":77.31,"body":"world of Keith is Keith is"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":77.31,"endTime":82.29,"body":"reading an article on a computer"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":77.31,"endTime":82.29,"body":"world. The title is \"Makers of"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":82.32,"endTime":86.31,"body":"chat GPT have announced the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":82.32,"endTime":86.31,"body":"company's dedicating 20% of its"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":86.34,"endTime":90.57,"body":"compute processing power over"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":86.34,"endTime":90.57,"body":"the next four years to stop"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":90.6,"endTime":95.28,"body":"super intelligent AI from quote"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":90.6,"endTime":95.28,"body":"unquote, going rogue\" and I'm"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":95.28,"endTime":98.64,"body":"wondering, is 20% Enough? I"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":95.28,"endTime":98.64,"body":"don't think so."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":99.53,"endTime":103.73,"body":"20% is a lot to you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":99.53,"endTime":103.73,"body":"know, I guess prevent your own"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":103.73,"endTime":106.61,"body":"technology if you had to spend"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":103.73,"endTime":106.61,"body":"that on employees from going"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":106.61,"endTime":110.33,"body":"rogue. So that seems like a lot,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":106.61,"endTime":110.33,"body":"but I know it's a serious issue"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":110.33,"endTime":114.41,"body":"that we're hearing in the news."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":110.33,"endTime":114.41,"body":"I mean, I saw I forget what it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":114.41,"endTime":117.29,"body":"was, and I'm gonna get some of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":114.41,"endTime":117.29,"body":"the details butchered, but I saw"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":117.29,"endTime":121.49,"body":"something recently, maybe Keith,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":117.29,"endTime":121.49,"body":"you shared this a lawyer was too"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":121.49,"endTime":125.6,"body":"lazy to process his own case"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":121.49,"endTime":125.6,"body":"work. It was for a he was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":125.6,"endTime":129.5,"body":"looking for case precedents for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":125.6,"endTime":129.5,"body":"one ofhis  cases that he had, so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":129.5,"endTime":133.46,"body":"he used chat GPT or Bard, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":129.5,"endTime":133.46,"body":"don't know which one, gave him a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":133.46,"endTime":136.07,"body":"bunch of case precedents and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":133.46,"endTime":136.07,"body":"they all turned out to be"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":136.07,"endTime":141.17,"body":"completely made up. So not one"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":136.07,"endTime":141.17,"body":"was actually true. So our friend"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":141.26,"endTime":145.07,"body":"of AI in our chat GPT bot"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":141.26,"endTime":145.07,"body":"completely made up the case, the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":145.07,"endTime":147.62,"body":"lawyer is going to lose his"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":145.07,"endTime":147.62,"body":"license, he's going to lose his"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":147.62,"endTime":152.66,"body":"practice and the AI went rogue."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":147.62,"endTime":152.66,"body":"So be wary, be wary if you're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":152.66,"endTime":155.45,"body":"using AI to do all of your work"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":152.66,"endTime":155.45,"body":"and not fact checking it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":155.45,"endTime":158.21,"body":"somehow. But I do think it's an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":155.45,"endTime":158.21,"body":"interesting debate that's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":158.21,"endTime":161.24,"body":"happening, and we'll see where"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":158.21,"endTime":161.24,"body":"this goes. 20% is a lot though."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":161.6,"endTime":164.06,"body":"It's not enough,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":161.6,"endTime":164.06,"body":"Aaron. It's not enough. It won't"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":164.06,"endTime":165.32,"body":"save us from the Terminator."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":165.86,"endTime":167.18,"body":"All right, if you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":165.86,"endTime":167.18,"body":"say so."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":167.96,"endTime":172.01,"body":"But yeah, so that"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":167.96,"endTime":172.01,"body":"brings us to Jason and Dragos."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":172.1,"endTime":175.19,"body":"First of all, Jason, thanks for"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":172.1,"endTime":175.19,"body":"hopping on. Today we have a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":175.4,"endTime":180.17,"body":"special guest. Jason, you have a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":175.4,"endTime":180.17,"body":"background and IT and OT"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":180.17,"endTime":185.63,"body":"cybersecurity and you're"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":180.17,"endTime":185.63,"body":"currently the director of cyber"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":185.63,"endTime":191.69,"body":"risk at Dragos leading their OT"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":185.63,"endTime":191.69,"body":"cybersecurity organization."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":191.93,"endTime":197.03,"body":"Besides the cool name of Dragos,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":191.93,"endTime":197.03,"body":"which was founded in 2016,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":197.42,"endTime":200.63,"body":"Dragos has taken it upon"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":197.42,"endTime":200.63,"body":"themselves to blend technology,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":200.63,"endTime":204.65,"body":"intelligence and people to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":200.63,"endTime":204.65,"body":"provide a layer of security to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":204.65,"endTime":208.7,"body":"operational technology. So"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":204.65,"endTime":208.7,"body":"Jason, why don't you introduce"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":208.7,"endTime":210.98,"body":"yourself and welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":208.7,"endTime":210.98,"body":"podcast."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":211.05,"endTime":212.91,"body":"Thank you"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":211.05,"endTime":212.91,"body":"very much, happy to be here. Um,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":212.91,"endTime":216.27,"body":"so yeah, I'm the director of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":212.91,"endTime":216.27,"body":"cyber risk at Dragos. What we do"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":216.27,"endTime":220.65,"body":"is a conversation as you sort of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":216.27,"endTime":220.65,"body":"already laid up for me on how"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":220.65,"endTime":225.36,"body":"can you start implementing and"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":220.65,"endTime":225.36,"body":"having a true detection program"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":225.39,"endTime":229.62,"body":"within your OT environment? When"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":225.39,"endTime":229.62,"body":"we talk about OT, and I should"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":229.62,"endTime":231.96,"body":"probably spend a little bit time"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":229.62,"endTime":231.96,"body":"on that, just because I know a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":231.96,"endTime":235.08,"body":"lot of folks aren't familiar"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":231.96,"endTime":235.08,"body":"with the concepts. So IT,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":235.11,"endTime":238.83,"body":"information technology. OT,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":235.11,"endTime":238.83,"body":"operational technology. And when"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":238.83,"endTime":241.38,"body":"we think about operational"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":238.83,"endTime":241.38,"body":"technology, these are things"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":241.38,"endTime":244.86,"body":"that the zeros and ones aren't"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":241.38,"endTime":244.86,"body":"the data that we use to store"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":244.86,"endTime":248.1,"body":"sensitive information, right? If"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":244.86,"endTime":248.1,"body":"we're in the banking sector, we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":248.1,"endTime":251.01,"body":"have zeros and ones that may be"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":248.1,"endTime":251.01,"body":"customer data, financial data."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":251.76,"endTime":255.51,"body":"When we think of zeros and ones"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":251.76,"endTime":255.51,"body":"in operational technology, those"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":255.51,"endTime":258.75,"body":"are actually opening a lever,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":255.51,"endTime":258.75,"body":"turning a valve flow of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":258.75,"endTime":261.96,"body":"molecules full of electrons."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":258.75,"endTime":261.96,"body":"Those are the things that we're"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":261.96,"endTime":265.59,"body":"dealing with an OT. So those"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":261.96,"endTime":265.59,"body":"zeros and ones become a thing"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":265.59,"endTime":268.5,"body":"that interact with the physical"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":265.59,"endTime":268.5,"body":"world. It's just a little bit"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":268.5,"endTime":271.98,"body":"different. And because of that,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":268.5,"endTime":271.98,"body":"the technologies are all over"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":271.98,"endTime":275.67,"body":"the place. Instead of maybe"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":271.98,"endTime":275.67,"body":"having a you know, laptop that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":275.67,"endTime":278.1,"body":"we're going to refresh every"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":275.67,"endTime":278.1,"body":"three to four years like we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":278.1,"endTime":281.64,"body":"would in IT, we've got equipment"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":278.1,"endTime":281.64,"body":"that's going to last for 30 to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":281.67,"endTime":285.96,"body":"40 years in OT. So talking about"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":281.67,"endTime":285.96,"body":"things like hey, how are we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":285.96,"endTime":289.11,"body":"going to patch this device"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":285.96,"endTime":289.11,"body":"that's still running Windows XP"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":289.29,"endTime":292.23,"body":"is a totally different"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":289.29,"endTime":292.23,"body":"conversation in the OT space"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":292.35,"endTime":295.47,"body":"where we actually had to bring a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":292.35,"endTime":295.47,"body":"plant down in some cases to be"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":295.47,"endTime":299.25,"body":"able to do that. So the security"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":295.47,"endTime":299.25,"body":"constraints are very different."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":299.52,"endTime":302.58,"body":"The technologies that we use to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":299.52,"endTime":302.58,"body":"be able to secure those systems"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":302.61,"endTime":305.58,"body":"are very different and the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":302.61,"endTime":305.58,"body":"impacts are different. If I'm"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":305.58,"endTime":308.76,"body":"dealing with an incident in IT,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":305.58,"endTime":308.76,"body":"I may be looking at system"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":308.76,"endTime":311.85,"body":"downtime, maybe things like"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":308.76,"endTime":311.85,"body":"ransomware, that can be able to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":312.0,"endTime":317.22,"body":"lock my systems up. In OT, I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":312.0,"endTime":317.22,"body":"mean, very, extremely have a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":317.22,"endTime":320.49,"body":"hole in the ground, right? I may"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":317.22,"endTime":320.49,"body":"deal with loss of safety, loss"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":320.49,"endTime":323.34,"body":"of human life, impacts to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":320.49,"endTime":323.34,"body":"community, environmental"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":323.34,"endTime":326.58,"body":"impacts, and things of that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":323.34,"endTime":326.58,"body":"nature. So just everything about"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":326.58,"endTime":329.34,"body":"it, it like, it looks similar on"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":326.58,"endTime":329.34,"body":"the surface, right, I still have"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":329.34,"endTime":332.46,"body":"networks, I still have routers"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":329.34,"endTime":332.46,"body":"and switches. But everything"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":332.46,"endTime":334.44,"body":"sort of in the guts of the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":332.46,"endTime":334.44,"body":"situation is going to be a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":334.44,"endTime":335.1,"body":"little bit different."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":335.48,"endTime":338.42,"body":"Yeah, Jason, it's,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":335.48,"endTime":338.42,"body":"it's interesting. And I want to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":338.42,"endTime":341.33,"body":"get into this a little bit more,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":338.42,"endTime":341.33,"body":"you talk a lot about the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":341.33,"endTime":345.05,"body":"importance of OT security. And I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":341.33,"endTime":345.05,"body":"think what we need to do is go"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":345.05,"endTime":348.29,"body":"back and like you said, define"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":345.05,"endTime":348.29,"body":"OT, there's the OT and the IT."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":348.47,"endTime":352.52,"body":"Where we're at today, I know it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":348.47,"endTime":352.52,"body":"but I know some of our listeners"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":352.52,"endTime":356.39,"body":"may not know, I want to kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":352.52,"endTime":356.39,"body":"go back into like, the largest"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":356.39,"endTime":359.9,"body":"OT breach to date and like how"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":356.39,"endTime":359.9,"body":"it happened, etc. But I also"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":359.9,"endTime":363.23,"body":"wanted to share previously on"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":359.9,"endTime":363.23,"body":"the IT Matters podcast, we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":363.23,"endTime":366.86,"body":"actually had a guest, Scott"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":363.23,"endTime":366.86,"body":"Finkhouse, talking about, like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":366.86,"endTime":370.25,"body":"an OT related issue. And it's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":366.86,"endTime":370.25,"body":"really interesting from a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":370.25,"endTime":373.22,"body":"security perspective, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":370.25,"endTime":373.22,"body":"mentioned, patching, like a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":373.22,"endTime":377.6,"body":"really old Windows XP device,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":373.22,"endTime":377.6,"body":"right? It's not so easy like in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":377.6,"endTime":380.09,"body":"IT we just think, well, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":377.6,"endTime":380.09,"body":"you're really behind on your"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":380.09,"endTime":383.24,"body":"patching, like, that's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":380.09,"endTime":383.24,"body":"inexcusable. In OT, I think what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":383.24,"endTime":386.9,"body":"people don't realize is, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":383.24,"endTime":386.9,"body":"spend $10, $15, $20, $30 million"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":387.26,"endTime":390.59,"body":"on a machine that runs a really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":387.26,"endTime":390.59,"body":"core process in your plant, it's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":390.59,"endTime":393.14,"body":"not so easy just to patch, that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":390.59,"endTime":393.14,"body":"thing that's gonna break that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":393.14,"endTime":396.2,"body":"whole machine. And now you got"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":393.14,"endTime":396.2,"body":"to spend that $30 million. So"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":396.32,"endTime":400.07,"body":"it's kind of got this very"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":396.32,"endTime":400.07,"body":"financially business driven use"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":400.07,"endTime":404.9,"body":"case over here, but a real live"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":400.07,"endTime":404.9,"body":"security issue over here. And I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":404.9,"endTime":407.54,"body":"think there's a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":404.9,"endTime":407.54,"body":"saying, well, like, geez, we've"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":407.54,"endTime":410.51,"body":"always kind of looked at these"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":407.54,"endTime":410.51,"body":"as two separate almost parts of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":410.51,"endTime":413.72,"body":"the business, but you can't"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":410.51,"endTime":413.72,"body":"anymore. So I wanted to bring"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":413.72,"endTime":416.9,"body":"that up. But also, can you talk"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":413.72,"endTime":416.9,"body":"about like, I think we all know"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":416.9,"endTime":419.51,"body":"what it is, but share with you,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":416.9,"endTime":419.51,"body":"in your opinion, what has been"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":419.51,"endTime":422.09,"body":"the largest OT breach to date,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":419.51,"endTime":422.09,"body":"and what happened."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":423.11,"endTime":425.96,"body":"So for me,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":423.11,"endTime":425.96,"body":"the one that always stands up,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":425.96,"endTime":430.73,"body":"and unfortunately, it's still an"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":425.96,"endTime":430.73,"body":"ever evolving issue is what took"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":430.73,"endTime":435.74,"body":"place in the Ukraine, from 2015"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":430.73,"endTime":435.74,"body":"and 2016. Those ones in"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":435.74,"endTime":438.23,"body":"particular stood out to me"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":435.74,"endTime":438.23,"body":"because we were talking about it"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":438.23,"endTime":440.99,"body":"for a while like, hey, this"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":438.23,"endTime":440.99,"body":"could happen. The electric grid"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":440.99,"endTime":443.81,"body":"has some vulnerabilities, if"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":440.99,"endTime":443.81,"body":"there was a dedicated actor, we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":443.81,"endTime":447.38,"body":"could have outages that could"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":443.81,"endTime":447.38,"body":"impact whole communities. And"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":447.38,"endTime":450.83,"body":"then the 2015 cyber attacks"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":447.38,"endTime":450.83,"body":"happened in Ukraine, which"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":450.95,"endTime":454.43,"body":"brought down about a quarter of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":450.95,"endTime":454.43,"body":"a million folks without power"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":454.43,"endTime":457.79,"body":"for roughly anywhere between"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":454.43,"endTime":457.79,"body":"four to six hours depending on"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":457.79,"endTime":461.0,"body":"how well you're counting on the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":457.79,"endTime":461.0,"body":"event timeline. And then it"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":461.0,"endTime":465.62,"body":"evolved into the following year"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":461.0,"endTime":465.62,"body":"in 2016. With a sort of Swiss"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":465.62,"endTime":468.62,"body":"Army knife of OT malware, a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":465.62,"endTime":468.62,"body":"framework of OT malware that we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":468.62,"endTime":472.28,"body":"hadn't seen before called Crash"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":468.62,"endTime":472.28,"body":"override. And seing an adversary"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":472.28,"endTime":476.0,"body":"start investing more and more in"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":472.28,"endTime":476.0,"body":"automating their attack flows."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":476.0,"endTime":478.97,"body":"There's something in IT, we see"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":476.0,"endTime":478.97,"body":"all the time. Seeing that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":478.97,"endTime":483.17,"body":"evolution in OT became pretty"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":478.97,"endTime":483.17,"body":"concerning. The other one that I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":483.17,"endTime":486.35,"body":"would say is extremely"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":483.17,"endTime":486.35,"body":"concerning would be the TRISIS"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":486.35,"endTime":490.19,"body":"attack. TRISIS if we think about"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":486.35,"endTime":490.19,"body":"the two different systems that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":490.19,"endTime":492.89,"body":"are concerned about motion, I'll"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":490.19,"endTime":492.89,"body":"walk you through a plant. One is"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":492.89,"endTime":495.74,"body":"the control system that is what"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":492.89,"endTime":495.74,"body":"is allowing an operator to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":495.74,"endTime":497.99,"body":"again, turn a valve, open a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":495.74,"endTime":497.99,"body":"lever, and things of that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":497.99,"endTime":501.17,"body":"nature. The other is a safety"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":497.99,"endTime":501.17,"body":"system, the safety system allows"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":501.17,"endTime":504.41,"body":"me as an engineer, to walk on"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":501.17,"endTime":504.41,"body":"site and understand that I will"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":504.44,"endTime":507.5,"body":"maintain my eyesight, my limbs"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":504.44,"endTime":507.5,"body":"and my life at the end of the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":507.5,"endTime":509.81,"body":"day, because they're going to be"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":507.5,"endTime":509.81,"body":"these passive safety elements or"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":509.81,"endTime":513.32,"body":"controlled safety elements, that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":509.81,"endTime":513.32,"body":"if something bad were to happen,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":513.56,"endTime":517.46,"body":"at least you'd still be alive."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":513.56,"endTime":517.46,"body":"And the attacker, instead of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":517.46,"endTime":519.77,"body":"going out to the control system,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":517.46,"endTime":519.77,"body":"which is what took place in the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":519.77,"endTime":523.52,"body":"Ukraine events, went after the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":519.77,"endTime":523.52,"body":"safety systems. So that tells"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":523.52,"endTime":527.06,"body":"you deliberately, they're trying"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":523.52,"endTime":527.06,"body":"to kill people. And those two"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":527.06,"endTime":530.48,"body":"things, if I were to look at"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":527.06,"endTime":530.48,"body":"those sort of evolution of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":530.48,"endTime":533.57,"body":"events between Ukraine and the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":530.48,"endTime":533.57,"body":"TRISIS event, those are the two"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":533.57,"endTime":537.74,"body":"that always stand out in my mind"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":533.57,"endTime":537.74,"body":"as really seen that the ante"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":537.74,"endTime":540.5,"body":"been upped by the attackers to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":537.74,"endTime":540.5,"body":"really do damage."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":540.68,"endTime":543.65,"body":"Got it, and Keith, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":540.68,"endTime":543.65,"body":"want to pass this over to you in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":543.65,"endTime":547.22,"body":"just a second. But, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":543.65,"endTime":547.22,"body":"mentioned Ukraine and 2015/16,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":547.49,"endTime":549.65,"body":"which is crazy. That's eight"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":547.49,"endTime":549.65,"body":"years ago, we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":549.65,"endTime":552.41,"body":"breaches. I mean, TRISIS, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":549.65,"endTime":552.41,"body":"didn't even mention Colonial"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":552.41,"endTime":558.08,"body":"Pipeline, which is another big"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":552.41,"endTime":558.08,"body":"one. How has OT security, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":558.08,"endTime":562.25,"body":"how has OT security systems"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":558.08,"endTime":562.25,"body":"evolved over the last, say, five"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":562.25,"endTime":563.54,"body":"to 10 years in your mind?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":563.0,"endTime":565.91,"body":"Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":563.0,"endTime":565.91,"body":"actually Colonial Pipeline's"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":565.91,"endTime":568.94,"body":"interesting because that was"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":565.91,"endTime":568.94,"body":"that was very much so an IT"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":568.94,"endTime":572.69,"body":"centric attack. It was a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":568.94,"endTime":572.69,"body":"controlled shutdown and that's"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":572.69,"endTime":575.0,"body":"one thing where if you want to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":572.69,"endTime":575.0,"body":"talk to the evolution, I think"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":575.0,"endTime":577.97,"body":"is interesting. We talk a lot"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":575.0,"endTime":577.97,"body":"about convergence. And"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":578.0,"endTime":581.24,"body":"convergence of technology is"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":578.0,"endTime":581.24,"body":"somewhat taking place, right? If"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":581.24,"endTime":584.78,"body":"I walk into a plant, I'll see"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":581.24,"endTime":584.78,"body":"computers, I'll see assets that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":584.78,"endTime":587.72,"body":"look IT like, but they're OT"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":584.78,"endTime":587.72,"body":"because they they impact"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":587.72,"endTime":591.62,"body":"operations. For Colonial"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":587.72,"endTime":591.62,"body":"Pipeline, it was the system that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":591.62,"endTime":595.01,"body":"allows you to understand what"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":591.62,"endTime":595.01,"body":"product is in the pipeline. So"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":595.04,"endTime":598.46,"body":"when that was part of the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":595.04,"endTime":598.46,"body":"ransomware impacts, you had no"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":598.46,"endTime":603.98,"body":"idea if there was sorry, jet"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":598.46,"endTime":603.98,"body":"fuel in that pipeline or premium"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":603.98,"endTime":606.41,"body":"gasoline, and you don't want to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":603.98,"endTime":606.41,"body":"mix the two up, right? You don't"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":606.41,"endTime":608.96,"body":"want to try to fly a plane on"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":606.41,"endTime":608.96,"body":"premium gasoline. Likewise, I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":608.96,"endTime":611.87,"body":"don't want to fill my car up"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":608.96,"endTime":611.87,"body":"with with jet fuel. And because"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":611.87,"endTime":613.91,"body":"they could not understand that,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":611.87,"endTime":613.91,"body":"because they couldn't have that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":613.91,"endTime":618.5,"body":"visibility on the IT side, OT"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":613.91,"endTime":618.5,"body":"had to shut down in terms of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":618.5,"endTime":621.2,"body":"being able to make sure that,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":618.5,"endTime":621.2,"body":"hey, if we can't understand"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":621.2,"endTime":624.23,"body":"who's getting what, then we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":621.2,"endTime":624.23,"body":"shouldn't be selling it. So that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":624.23,"endTime":626.48,"body":"controlled shutdown, I think is"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":624.23,"endTime":626.48,"body":"an interesting piece and that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":626.48,"endTime":631.43,"body":"evolution, I think, is where the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":626.48,"endTime":631.43,"body":"boundary of IT and OT, that I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":631.43,"endTime":633.86,"body":"think is the evolutionary state"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":631.43,"endTime":633.86,"body":"that we're currently in. Where"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":633.86,"endTime":638.6,"body":"does it reside? Who manages the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":633.86,"endTime":638.6,"body":"firewall for an OT plant? Is it"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":638.6,"endTime":642.08,"body":"going to be enterprise IT who"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":638.6,"endTime":642.08,"body":"understands firewalls really,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":642.08,"endTime":644.9,"body":"really well, but may not"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":642.08,"endTime":644.9,"body":"understand OT protocols,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":645.02,"endTime":648.23,"body":"operations, safety? Or is it the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":645.02,"endTime":648.23,"body":"folks in the plant who will"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":648.23,"endTime":651.14,"body":"understand those three things"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":648.23,"endTime":651.14,"body":"very, very well, but may not"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":651.14,"endTime":654.53,"body":"totally understand like why any"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":651.14,"endTime":654.53,"body":"any is a bad firewall rule to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":654.53,"endTime":658.01,"body":"have in place. And so this"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":654.53,"endTime":658.01,"body":"convergence has happened"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":658.01,"endTime":660.23,"body":"somewhat with technology, but"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":658.01,"endTime":660.23,"body":"hasn't happened, really, with"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":660.23,"endTime":664.37,"body":"people. Understanding the sort"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":660.23,"endTime":664.37,"body":"of education that you need on"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":664.37,"endTime":666.83,"body":"the workforce, and both sides to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":664.37,"endTime":666.83,"body":"come together to really be able"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":666.83,"endTime":669.29,"body":"to support that evolution that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":666.83,"endTime":669.29,"body":"we're talking about?"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":669.54,"endTime":672.39,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":669.54,"endTime":672.39,"body":"fascinating. I'm curious as to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":672.42,"endTime":677.58,"body":"what industries or business"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":672.42,"endTime":677.58,"body":"segments is Dragos seeing the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":677.58,"endTime":683.04,"body":"most growth in and what has been"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":677.58,"endTime":683.04,"body":"the catalyst for the adoption"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":683.04,"endTime":686.82,"body":"for another layer of OT"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":683.04,"endTime":686.82,"body":"security? Understand,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":686.82,"endTime":690.15,"body":"understandably, human life is a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":686.82,"endTime":690.15,"body":"catalys, but you know, what"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":690.15,"endTime":693.84,"body":"areas are kind of more the hyper"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":690.15,"endTime":693.84,"body":"growth mode."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":693.96,"endTime":696.06,"body":"So I feel"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":693.96,"endTime":696.06,"body":"like it's the same thing in IT,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":696.09,"endTime":698.16,"body":"where we talk about"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":696.09,"endTime":698.16,"body":"unfortunately, once an event"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":698.16,"endTime":701.82,"body":"happens, that's when people pay"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":698.16,"endTime":701.82,"body":"attention. Same thing in OT. So"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":701.82,"endTime":703.83,"body":"I would say there are two"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":701.82,"endTime":703.83,"body":"drivers, mainly that have been"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":703.83,"endTime":706.41,"body":"happening, and one is"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":703.83,"endTime":706.41,"body":"regulation, and the other are"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":706.41,"endTime":709.95,"body":"events. So we see the most"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":706.41,"endTime":709.95,"body":"growth and probably also the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":709.95,"endTime":712.59,"body":"most maturity in the electric"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":709.95,"endTime":712.59,"body":"sector and the energy sector."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":713.04,"endTime":715.65,"body":"Electric has had mandatory"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":713.04,"endTime":715.65,"body":"cybersecurity standards in place"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":715.65,"endTime":719.67,"body":"that impact OT since 2010. So"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":715.65,"endTime":719.67,"body":"there's a bit of maturity there"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":719.67,"endTime":722.16,"body":"that you don't see in other"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":719.67,"endTime":722.16,"body":"sectors as a result. Same thing"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":722.16,"endTime":724.32,"body":"in the energy sector, especially"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":722.16,"endTime":724.32,"body":"things like Colonial Pipeline,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":724.32,"endTime":727.83,"body":"that force new regulations"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":724.32,"endTime":727.83,"body":"coming out of TSA, and that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":727.83,"endTime":731.28,"body":"again, forced a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":727.83,"endTime":731.28,"body":"growth there. What I think is,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":731.88,"endTime":735.12,"body":"one of the impactful ideas that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":731.88,"endTime":735.12,"body":"people need to understand is"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":735.12,"endTime":738.18,"body":"that again, I can't put"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":735.12,"endTime":738.18,"body":"traditional IT controls in those"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":738.18,"endTime":741.48,"body":"OT environments. Where we talk"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":738.18,"endTime":741.48,"body":"about the idea of prevention is"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":741.48,"endTime":746.1,"body":"ideal, detection is a must,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":741.48,"endTime":746.1,"body":"really, really strong in OT."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":746.4,"endTime":750.63,"body":"When I talk about OT, we talk"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":746.4,"endTime":750.63,"body":"about the M\u0026M model, and I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":750.66,"endTime":754.5,"body":"the the candy, not the rapper"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":750.66,"endTime":754.5,"body":"from Detroit. In the M\u0026M model,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":754.5,"endTime":755.25,"body":"it's hard shell,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":755.25,"endTime":757.14,"body":"Both good, though,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":755.25,"endTime":757.14,"body":"both good though."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":759.28,"endTime":761.35,"body":"So the hard"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":759.28,"endTime":761.35,"body":"shell, gooey center means I need"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":761.35,"endTime":763.96,"body":"to invest my perimeters, I need"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":761.35,"endTime":763.96,"body":"to invest in firewalls, I need"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":763.96,"endTime":767.26,"body":"to invest in physical security"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":763.96,"endTime":767.26,"body":"perimeters, but they're going to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":767.26,"endTime":770.29,"body":"fail. How many firewalls have"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":767.26,"endTime":770.29,"body":"you ever worked on that was like"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":770.29,"endTime":773.8,"body":"totally pristine, didn't have a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":770.29,"endTime":773.8,"body":"temporary firewall rule that has"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":773.8,"endTime":778.09,"body":"now been in place for 10 years,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":773.8,"endTime":778.09,"body":"very, very rare. And so that's"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":778.09,"endTime":780.7,"body":"where we really lean into"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":778.09,"endTime":780.7,"body":"detection. That's what Drago"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":780.7,"endTime":783.97,"body":"specializes in. Looking at"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":780.7,"endTime":783.97,"body":"detection inside those OT"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":783.97,"endTime":787.3,"body":"environments, knowing that the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":783.97,"endTime":787.3,"body":"perimeters will fail and knowing"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":787.3,"endTime":790.69,"body":"that we can't put in things like"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":787.3,"endTime":790.69,"body":"antivirus. You're going to walk"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":790.69,"endTime":794.35,"body":"into a control control center or"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":790.69,"endTime":794.35,"body":"control room and you go to a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":794.35,"endTime":797.47,"body":"device, it's not gonna have any"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":794.35,"endTime":797.47,"body":"idea how to authenticate, maybe"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":797.47,"endTime":800.41,"body":"if you're lucky, you can enter a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":797.47,"endTime":800.41,"body":"four digit PIN. So in those"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":800.41,"endTime":804.01,"body":"cases the traditional IT"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":800.41,"endTime":804.01,"body":"controls won't be in place. So"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":804.01,"endTime":807.91,"body":"prevention is ideal, detection"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":804.01,"endTime":807.91,"body":"is a must. I'd further qualify"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":807.91,"endTime":810.37,"body":"detection without response is"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":807.91,"endTime":810.37,"body":"probably of little value, right?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":810.37,"endTime":812.53,"body":"Like if I see something on fire,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":810.37,"endTime":812.53,"body":"but I don't know how to put out"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":812.53,"endTime":815.08,"body":"a fire, it's not going to help"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":812.53,"endTime":815.08,"body":"me out too much. And so that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":815.08,"endTime":819.4,"body":"evolution is where I see OT"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":815.08,"endTime":819.4,"body":"really strengthening, less so in"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":819.4,"endTime":822.34,"body":"the prevention discussions,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":819.4,"endTime":822.34,"body":"because we can only do so much,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":822.37,"endTime":825.37,"body":"more so in detection and being"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":822.37,"endTime":825.37,"body":"able to respond to an incident"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":825.0,"endTime":826.74,"body":"So you bring up a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":825.0,"endTime":826.74,"body":"really interesting, I think,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":825.37,"endTime":825.79,"body":"quickly."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":826.77,"endTime":834.78,"body":"question, if I'm a CEO, CFO,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":826.77,"endTime":834.78,"body":"CIO, I'm a leader in an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":834.78,"endTime":838.23,"body":"organization that would have"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":834.78,"endTime":838.23,"body":"some amount of OT that they need"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":838.23,"endTime":842.67,"body":"to be concerned about right? In"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":838.23,"endTime":842.67,"body":"IT, CIS framework, NIST"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":842.67,"endTime":846.09,"body":"framework, they're very popular,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":842.67,"endTime":846.09,"body":"it's easy. Insurance companies"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":846.09,"endTime":848.94,"body":"come in, whoever comes in and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":846.09,"endTime":848.94,"body":"assesses and says, Yeah, meet"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":848.94,"endTime":852.33,"body":"these controls, right? If you do"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":848.94,"endTime":852.33,"body":"this, you're 90% of the way to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":852.33,"endTime":857.37,"body":"security. What would you advise"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":852.33,"endTime":857.37,"body":"a new CEO of a manufacturer and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":857.37,"endTime":860.07,"body":"they're concerned about do I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":857.37,"endTime":860.07,"body":"have OT security in place? Like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":860.07,"endTime":863.31,"body":"are we doing everything we can?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":860.07,"endTime":863.31,"body":"How do they assess that? What's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":863.31,"endTime":865.83,"body":"the best way to do it? What are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":863.31,"endTime":865.83,"body":"some successful stories? What"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":865.83,"endTime":869.13,"body":"are some, some maybe not so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":865.83,"endTime":869.13,"body":"successful stories you've seen?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":869.4,"endTime":871.92,"body":"And like, what is Dragos? Like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":869.4,"endTime":871.92,"body":"how do you guys approach it?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":872.14,"endTime":873.76,"body":"So we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":872.14,"endTime":873.76,"body":"actually approach it using a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":873.76,"endTime":876.64,"body":"framework called the five"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":873.76,"endTime":876.64,"body":"critical controls for ICS. Five"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":876.64,"endTime":879.73,"body":"critical controls for ICS are"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":876.64,"endTime":879.73,"body":"just very simple, very easy ways"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":879.73,"endTime":882.97,"body":"to be able to bucket things,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":879.73,"endTime":882.97,"body":"sort of starting with the idea"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":882.97,"endTime":885.37,"body":"of incident response and"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":882.97,"endTime":885.37,"body":"understanding what that means to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":885.37,"endTime":888.73,"body":"you. Really, for example,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":885.37,"endTime":888.73,"body":"understanding the scenarios that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":888.73,"endTime":891.94,"body":"mean the most, not sort of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":888.73,"endTime":891.94,"body":"boiling the ocean, but those"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":891.94,"endTime":894.22,"body":"scenarios that mean the most to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":891.94,"endTime":894.22,"body":"you. Do you have the playbooks"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":894.22,"endTime":896.74,"body":"in place? Do you have the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":894.22,"endTime":896.74,"body":"processes in place to respond?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":896.89,"endTime":899.44,"body":"And from there then pivoting to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":896.89,"endTime":899.44,"body":"the idea of what is defensible"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":899.44,"endTime":902.89,"body":"architecture? A defensible"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":899.44,"endTime":902.89,"body":"architecture for us being based"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":902.89,"endTime":905.41,"body":"off those scenarios you care"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":902.89,"endTime":905.41,"body":"about. Because again, we can't"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":905.41,"endTime":908.38,"body":"put in traditional IT controls."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":905.41,"endTime":908.38,"body":"So let's say I'm worried about"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":908.38,"endTime":911.89,"body":"ransomware in my environment."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":908.38,"endTime":911.89,"body":"There may be a set of 50"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":911.89,"endTime":915.25,"body":"controls or so to help me"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":911.89,"endTime":915.25,"body":"prevent ransomware in our OT"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":915.25,"endTime":917.35,"body":"environment. But let's say"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":915.25,"endTime":917.35,"body":"you're really concerned about"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":917.35,"endTime":919.96,"body":"TRISIS, right? The TRISIS event"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":917.35,"endTime":919.96,"body":"that I talked about earlier,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":919.96,"endTime":923.02,"body":"targeting safety events, that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":919.96,"endTime":923.02,"body":"may be like 120 different"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":923.02,"endTime":926.56,"body":"controls. And so understanding"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":923.02,"endTime":926.56,"body":"your environment, understanding"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":926.56,"endTime":929.86,"body":"what you care about most is what"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":926.56,"endTime":929.86,"body":"will then sort of flush out this"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":929.86,"endTime":933.31,"body":"conversation around our"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":929.86,"endTime":933.31,"body":"defensible architecture. And so"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":933.34,"endTime":936.04,"body":"the controls then sort of build"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":933.34,"endTime":936.04,"body":"themselves upon from there"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":936.04,"endTime":938.02,"body":"talking about things like what"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":936.04,"endTime":938.02,"body":"do we do for secure remote"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":938.02,"endTime":941.14,"body":"access? What do you do for key"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":938.02,"endTime":941.14,"body":"vulnerability management? All of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":941.14,"endTime":944.26,"body":"them at the end of the day,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":941.14,"endTime":944.26,"body":"really trying to supplement and"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":944.29,"endTime":948.19,"body":"have a big bucket idea of if I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":944.29,"endTime":948.19,"body":"don't know where to start, let"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":948.19,"endTime":950.38,"body":"me only start with these five"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":948.19,"endTime":950.38,"body":"critical controls and move from"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":950.38,"endTime":953.38,"body":"there. There are larger"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":950.38,"endTime":953.38,"body":"frameworks. So similar to like"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":953.38,"endTime":956.26,"body":"what we have in IT if you're"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":953.38,"endTime":956.26,"body":"familiar with the NIST sort of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":956.26,"endTime":963.46,"body":"SP 853, we have SP 882. 82 is"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":956.26,"endTime":963.46,"body":"just an overlay on top of the 53"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":963.46,"endTime":964.78,"body":"that says, hey, you know what"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":963.46,"endTime":964.78,"body":"you're not gonna be able to do"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":964.78,"endTime":965.92,"body":"in OT, multi factor"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":964.78,"endTime":965.92,"body":"authentication and the control"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":965.92,"endTime":966.91,"body":"center. So we allow you to do"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":965.92,"endTime":966.91,"body":"things like have badge card"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":966.91,"endTime":974.32,"body":"reader access count as"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":966.91,"endTime":974.32,"body":"multifactor. And so there's a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":974.32,"endTime":976.03,"body":"different set of audit"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":974.32,"endTime":976.03,"body":"techniques that you can do"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":976.03,"endTime":978.73,"body":"there. I mentioned electric"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":976.03,"endTime":978.73,"body":"sector, again, we have mandatory"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":978.73,"endTime":982.3,"body":"regulations there. Same with"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":978.73,"endTime":982.3,"body":"energy with TSA. So we do have"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":982.3,"endTime":985.48,"body":"frameworks in place, we do have"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":982.3,"endTime":985.48,"body":"standards that are in place, I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":985.48,"endTime":989.35,"body":"would say, just like every other"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":985.48,"endTime":989.35,"body":"IT program that you run into the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":989.35,"endTime":992.29,"body":"risk becomes is it compliance"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":989.35,"endTime":992.29,"body":"based? In which case is it just"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":992.29,"endTime":995.02,"body":"check the box? Or are you really"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":992.29,"endTime":995.02,"body":"looking at it from a security"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":995.02,"endTime":997.72,"body":"perspective? And that's where I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":995.02,"endTime":997.72,"body":"challenge CEOs to look at it"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":997.72,"endTime":1000.66,"body":"from from that perspective of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":997.72,"endTime":1000.66,"body":"saying, hey, what do we care"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1000.66,"endTime":1004.38,"body":"about? Are we doing this safely?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1000.66,"endTime":1004.38,"body":"Can we maintain reliability even"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1004.38,"endTime":1007.05,"body":"during a cyber event? And those"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1004.38,"endTime":1007.05,"body":"are all conversations that would"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1007.05,"endTime":1011.55,"body":"have to have as opposed to I do"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1007.05,"endTime":1011.55,"body":"882 and just call it a day."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1011.9,"endTime":1014.66,"body":"Yeah, that reminds"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1011.9,"endTime":1014.66,"body":"me that how important the human"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1014.66,"endTime":1020.51,"body":"element is to securing IT and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1014.66,"endTime":1020.51,"body":"sounds like OT as well. You"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1020.51,"endTime":1025.52,"body":"mentioned a reinvention of how"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1020.51,"endTime":1025.52,"body":"to think about security, you're"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1025.52,"endTime":1029.57,"body":"badging in and out, the controls"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1025.52,"endTime":1029.57,"body":"are able to implement on the IT"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1029.57,"endTime":1035.06,"body":"side are numerous, but it sounds"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1029.57,"endTime":1035.06,"body":"like as far as authenticating"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1035.09,"endTime":1039.98,"body":"and training employees to view"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1035.09,"endTime":1039.98,"body":"their jobs in a different way"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1039.98,"endTime":1044.36,"body":"that bring about security to the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1039.98,"endTime":1044.36,"body":"organization is a task in and of"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1044.36,"endTime":1048.95,"body":"itself. How does Dragos us help"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1044.36,"endTime":1048.95,"body":"the human element side of things"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1048.95,"endTime":1052.1,"body":"if you're leading a team, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1048.95,"endTime":1052.1,"body":"you're having a conversation"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1052.1,"endTime":1052.79,"body":"with Dragos?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1053.17,"endTime":1055.45,"body":"Yeah, so we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1053.17,"endTime":1055.45,"body":"actually have some complimentary"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1055.45,"endTime":1058.6,"body":"services that sort of surround"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1055.45,"endTime":1058.6,"body":"the platform. So the platform"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1058.6,"endTime":1061.51,"body":"being the detection platform,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1058.6,"endTime":1061.51,"body":"looks for abnormalities"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1061.51,"endTime":1064.18,"body":"understands OT specific"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1061.51,"endTime":1064.18,"body":"protocols and sort of how"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1064.18,"endTime":1067.12,"body":"operations should work. So if"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1064.18,"endTime":1067.12,"body":"something, for example, if"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1067.12,"endTime":1070.06,"body":"you're speaking in a certain"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1067.12,"endTime":1070.06,"body":"protocol, let's say if you're in"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1070.06,"endTime":1073.42,"body":"the electric sector, DNP3 is a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1070.06,"endTime":1073.42,"body":"very popular protocol to be able"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1073.42,"endTime":1076.15,"body":"to operate. All of a sudden you"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1073.42,"endTime":1076.15,"body":"see a device using like an"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1076.18,"endTime":1079.87,"body":"IEC104 protocol that you don't"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1076.18,"endTime":1079.87,"body":"use at all, that's likely an"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1079.87,"endTime":1082.9,"body":"attacker like, like, there's"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1079.87,"endTime":1082.9,"body":"very few reasons that a device"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1082.9,"endTime":1085.09,"body":"that is deterministic, would all"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1082.9,"endTime":1085.09,"body":"of a sudden start using a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1085.09,"endTime":1087.4,"body":"different protocol that it"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1085.09,"endTime":1087.4,"body":"should not understand or know."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1088.09,"endTime":1091.54,"body":"So we're able to provide that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1088.09,"endTime":1091.54,"body":"additional conversation about"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1091.54,"endTime":1094.27,"body":"here's the detection piece."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1091.54,"endTime":1094.27,"body":"Within the platform also, we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1094.27,"endTime":1097.87,"body":"have playbooks. So hey, you just"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1094.27,"endTime":1097.87,"body":"saw this sort of indicator"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1097.87,"endTime":1100.81,"body":"trigger, what should you do?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1097.87,"endTime":1100.81,"body":"Here's sort of the top things"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1100.81,"endTime":1103.84,"body":"you should run through. And then"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1100.81,"endTime":1103.84,"body":"we can augment that further. We"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1103.84,"endTime":1106.12,"body":"have training, for example, at"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1103.84,"endTime":1106.12,"body":"Dragos Academy that allows"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1106.12,"endTime":1108.76,"body":"people to sort of understand OT"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1106.12,"endTime":1108.76,"body":"a little bit better, understand"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1108.76,"endTime":1111.25,"body":"what you should do during"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1108.76,"endTime":1111.25,"body":"incidents. We also have"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1111.25,"endTime":1114.04,"body":"professional services that sort"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1111.25,"endTime":1114.04,"body":"of, again, help augment your"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1114.04,"endTime":1116.71,"body":"team. So if you don't know how"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1114.04,"endTime":1116.71,"body":"to do an architecture review,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1116.86,"endTime":1119.62,"body":"you're not certain where you"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1116.86,"endTime":1119.62,"body":"should start, the services come"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1119.62,"endTime":1122.68,"body":"into play. And then we also have"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1119.62,"endTime":1122.68,"body":"intelligence. So being able to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1122.68,"endTime":1125.29,"body":"provide OT specific"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1122.68,"endTime":1125.29,"body":"intelligence, which is very"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1125.29,"endTime":1128.14,"body":"different than IT, right? In IT"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1125.29,"endTime":1128.14,"body":"there are hundreds, if not"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1128.17,"endTime":1131.5,"body":"1000s, of activity groups and"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1128.17,"endTime":1131.5,"body":"things you need to keep on top"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1131.5,"endTime":1133.93,"body":"of, OT is actually, it's a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1131.5,"endTime":1133.93,"body":"little bit smaller, right, we're"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1133.93,"endTime":1136.57,"body":"talking about dozens of activity"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1133.93,"endTime":1136.57,"body":"groups that understand"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1136.57,"endTime":1139.99,"body":"operations, understand how to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1136.57,"endTime":1139.99,"body":"attack OT, and providing that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1139.99,"endTime":1142.78,"body":"very specific information,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1139.99,"endTime":1142.78,"body":"again, allows you to what I like"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1142.78,"endTime":1145.93,"body":"to call a patch the human,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1142.78,"endTime":1145.93,"body":"right. If the human understands"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1145.93,"endTime":1148.09,"body":"the things that are going wrong,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1145.93,"endTime":1148.09,"body":"then they should be able to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1148.09,"endTime":1150.49,"body":"build better processes and"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1148.09,"endTime":1150.49,"body":"leverage technology a little bit"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1150.49,"endTime":1151.18,"body":"better as well."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1151.24,"endTime":1153.73,"body":"You mentioned"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1151.24,"endTime":1153.73,"body":"earlier, well, you kind of have"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1153.73,"endTime":1156.16,"body":"been talking about it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1153.73,"endTime":1156.16,"body":"throughout, with, I appreciate"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1156.16,"endTime":1158.92,"body":"you sharing that because that's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1156.16,"endTime":1158.92,"body":"really helpful for I think the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1158.92,"endTime":1162.61,"body":"listener to understand like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1158.92,"endTime":1162.61,"body":"kind of framing OT technologies"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1162.61,"endTime":1166.03,"body":"and security. You mentioned"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1162.61,"endTime":1166.03,"body":"highly regulated industries,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1166.03,"endTime":1169.48,"body":"being the first adopters. And I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1166.03,"endTime":1169.48,"body":"think it makes total sense why"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1169.48,"endTime":1172.72,"body":"right, like electric. If the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1169.48,"endTime":1172.72,"body":"electric grid goes down, we're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1172.72,"endTime":1176.11,"body":"all screwed, ie, Ukraine"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1172.72,"endTime":1176.11,"body":"excetera. Which industry you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1176.11,"endTime":1180.19,"body":"think will be the next one to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1176.11,"endTime":1180.19,"body":"really adopt this technology?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1180.22,"endTime":1182.92,"body":"That's kind of the first"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1180.22,"endTime":1182.92,"body":"question. And feel free to kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1182.92,"endTime":1186.04,"body":"of get granular because I think"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1182.92,"endTime":1186.04,"body":"like manufacturing has OT"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1186.04,"endTime":1189.13,"body":"everywhere. But I think there's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1186.04,"endTime":1189.13,"body":"probably certain manufacturing,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1189.13,"endTime":1193.0,"body":"that's probably more likely to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1189.13,"endTime":1193.0,"body":"adopt. So that's kind of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1193.0,"endTime":1195.88,"body":"first question so feel free to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1193.0,"endTime":1195.88,"body":"answer that one. I'm curious"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1195.88,"endTime":1197.32,"body":"what you think on the next"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1195.88,"endTime":1197.32,"body":"industry."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1197.51,"endTime":1199.61,"body":"Yeah, the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1197.51,"endTime":1199.61,"body":"next industry I would support"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1199.61,"endTime":1201.89,"body":"this idea of manufacturing."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1199.61,"endTime":1201.89,"body":"You're right, though"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1201.89,"endTime":1205.04,"body":"manufacturing is so broad,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1201.89,"endTime":1205.04,"body":"right. There are, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1205.04,"endTime":1209.33,"body":"these fortune 50 manufacturers"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1205.04,"endTime":1209.33,"body":"also like, believe it or not"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1209.33,"endTime":1211.67,"body":"like Mom and Pop manufacturers"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1209.33,"endTime":1211.67,"body":"right where they're local"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1211.67,"endTime":1214.79,"body":"community driven. And maybe they"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1211.67,"endTime":1214.79,"body":"don't understand sort of what"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1214.79,"endTime":1217.31,"body":"those impacts could possibly"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1214.79,"endTime":1217.31,"body":"look like. So I see it probably"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1217.31,"endTime":1220.97,"body":"going more towards the more"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1217.31,"endTime":1220.97,"body":"mature manufacturers and I'd"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1220.97,"endTime":1224.06,"body":"also include sectors like"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1220.97,"endTime":1224.06,"body":"chemical sector into that too."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1224.39,"endTime":1227.09,"body":"Chemical sector has hit the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1224.39,"endTime":1227.09,"body":"accelerator, same with"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1227.09,"endTime":1230.9,"body":"pharmaceuticals on more digital"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1227.09,"endTime":1230.9,"body":"transformation. And that means"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1230.9,"endTime":1233.87,"body":"that we're seeing cloud"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1230.9,"endTime":1233.87,"body":"connectivity to OT systems,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1233.87,"endTime":1236.57,"body":"persistent cloud connectivity,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1233.87,"endTime":1236.57,"body":"which should frighten a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1236.57,"endTime":1240.17,"body":"people. We're seeing, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1236.57,"endTime":1240.17,"body":"I've walked into some facilities"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1240.17,"endTime":1242.15,"body":"where they're, they're managing"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1240.17,"endTime":1242.15,"body":"some of the things on iPads,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1242.33,"endTime":1245.42,"body":"which looks really cool, but"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1242.33,"endTime":1245.42,"body":"again, from an attack surface,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1245.42,"endTime":1247.64,"body":"it's probably adding a lot more"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1245.42,"endTime":1247.64,"body":"that you want to be able to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1247.64,"endTime":1252.35,"body":"detect. So seeing manufacturing,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1247.64,"endTime":1252.35,"body":"chemical, move in that direction"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1252.59,"endTime":1256.25,"body":"will be next. The one underlie"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1252.59,"endTime":1256.25,"body":"the one that I'm uncertain"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1256.25,"endTime":1259.67,"body":"about, just because I think"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1256.25,"endTime":1259.67,"body":"budgeting is hard for them is"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1259.67,"endTime":1262.67,"body":"water sector. And we've seen"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1259.67,"endTime":1262.67,"body":"events, right, that have sort of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1262.7,"endTime":1267.53,"body":"grabbed national attention."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1262.7,"endTime":1267.53,"body":"Water is as vital as power. I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1267.53,"endTime":1270.02,"body":"want, I want to be able to have"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1267.53,"endTime":1270.02,"body":"safe drinking water. But there"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1270.02,"endTime":1274.01,"body":"are 50,000, water utilities ish"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1270.02,"endTime":1274.01,"body":"around about the United States"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1274.01,"endTime":1277.91,"body":"alone. And they're very small in"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1274.01,"endTime":1277.91,"body":"some cases. You know, the profit"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1277.91,"endTime":1280.64,"body":"margins on those, they don't"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1277.91,"endTime":1280.64,"body":"drive by profit, they drive by"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1280.64,"endTime":1284.06,"body":"serving the community. And so"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1280.64,"endTime":1284.06,"body":"it's relatively cheap commodity,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1284.18,"endTime":1287.18,"body":"which means that there may not"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1284.18,"endTime":1287.18,"body":"be a budget at all, for somebody"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1287.18,"endTime":1290.48,"body":"who's doing OT. As a matter of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1287.18,"endTime":1290.48,"body":"fact, that OT person could just"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1290.48,"endTime":1293.3,"body":"be the operator. You know, it"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1290.48,"endTime":1293.3,"body":"could be the IT person who"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1293.3,"endTime":1295.88,"body":"doesn't understand OT and so"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1293.3,"endTime":1295.88,"body":"there's a lot of constraints"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1295.88,"endTime":1299.63,"body":"there. I would love to see water"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1295.88,"endTime":1299.63,"body":"mature, I just don't know where"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1299.63,"endTime":1301.91,"body":"that sort of incentive or"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1299.63,"endTime":1301.91,"body":"funding would come from for a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1301.91,"endTime":1303.38,"body":"lot of the smaller utilities."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1303.42,"endTime":1306.15,"body":"So let's go back to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1303.42,"endTime":1306.15,"body":"the question. Earlier you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1306.15,"endTime":1309.9,"body":"answered, you know, where is OT"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1306.15,"endTime":1309.9,"body":"security and kind of high level"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1309.9,"endTime":1314.07,"body":"what is it. Now for, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1309.9,"endTime":1314.07,"body":"from Dragos' perspective, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1314.07,"endTime":1317.4,"body":"what you talk to customers every"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1314.07,"endTime":1317.4,"body":"day, Dragos is obviously an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1317.4,"endTime":1320.97,"body":"advanced OT security and helps"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1317.4,"endTime":1320.97,"body":"companies mature their OT"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1320.97,"endTime":1324.87,"body":"security practice. Like if I'm a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1320.97,"endTime":1324.87,"body":"CEO, and I'm walking in, I'm"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1324.87,"endTime":1327.63,"body":"taking a new role in a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1324.87,"endTime":1327.63,"body":"manufacturer in a utility"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1327.63,"endTime":1330.87,"body":"company and I'm kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1327.63,"endTime":1330.87,"body":"questioning like, do we have any"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1330.87,"endTime":1333.87,"body":"security? Like, what are you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1330.87,"endTime":1333.87,"body":"typically seeing? What are you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1333.87,"endTime":1338.1,"body":"replacing? Like where are people"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1333.87,"endTime":1338.1,"body":"in the like the you know, the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1338.1,"endTime":1341.46,"body":"spectrum of OT security? And how"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1338.1,"endTime":1341.46,"body":"bad can it be?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1341.75,"endTime":1345.47,"body":"So what is"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1341.75,"endTime":1345.47,"body":"typically interesting for either"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1345.5,"endTime":1349.37,"body":"new CEOs, or even new board"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1345.5,"endTime":1349.37,"body":"members, right, because now"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1349.37,"endTime":1352.31,"body":"boards, especially for the good"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1349.37,"endTime":1352.31,"body":"things here in the states, like"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1352.31,"endTime":1354.53,"body":"the new SEC guidance is coming"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1352.31,"endTime":1354.53,"body":"out saying, hey, you have to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1354.53,"endTime":1357.17,"body":"have a board member who"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1354.53,"endTime":1357.17,"body":"understands cyber risk. They'll"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1357.17,"endTime":1358.79,"body":"look at their budgets and say,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1357.17,"endTime":1358.79,"body":"well, we're spending in"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1358.79,"endTime":1361.25,"body":"cybersecurity. And so they'll"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1358.79,"endTime":1361.25,"body":"talk to the CISO and the CISO"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1361.25,"endTime":1364.13,"body":"will talk about, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1361.25,"endTime":1364.13,"body":"scorecards they have and all the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1364.13,"endTime":1366.89,"body":"things that they're doing for"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1364.13,"endTime":1366.89,"body":"you know, phishing, and being"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1366.89,"endTime":1369.05,"body":"able to look from the outside in"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1366.89,"endTime":1369.05,"body":"inside out all those good"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1369.05,"endTime":1374.57,"body":"things. But, the CISO rarely has"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1369.05,"endTime":1374.57,"body":"any visibility into OT security."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1374.84,"endTime":1377.45,"body":"That may be managed by the plant"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1374.84,"endTime":1377.45,"body":"manager. That could be managed"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1377.45,"endTime":1380.54,"body":"by the VP of engineering. And if"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1377.45,"endTime":1380.54,"body":"you ask that person, what's been"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1380.54,"endTime":1383.87,"body":"their budget for cybersecurity,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1380.54,"endTime":1383.87,"body":"it's very small, if anything."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1384.29,"endTime":1387.17,"body":"And the first time CEO or first"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1384.29,"endTime":1387.17,"body":"time board members, the thing"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1387.17,"endTime":1389.45,"body":"about them is that they"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1387.17,"endTime":1389.45,"body":"typically understand operations,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1389.45,"endTime":1391.97,"body":"right, the CEO probably came"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1389.45,"endTime":1391.97,"body":"from the plant floor came from"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1391.97,"endTime":1395.42,"body":"the utility and worked their way"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1391.97,"endTime":1395.42,"body":"up. When they say, wait, you"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1395.42,"endTime":1398.9,"body":"mean, the thing that that we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1395.42,"endTime":1398.9,"body":"produce, the thing that like,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1399.08,"endTime":1401.78,"body":"provides power to a community or"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1399.08,"endTime":1401.78,"body":"that we are actually producing"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1401.78,"endTime":1404.84,"body":"as a manufacturer has no"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1401.78,"endTime":1404.84,"body":"security on it, but our IT"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1404.84,"endTime":1408.8,"body":"enterprise stuff is really"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1404.84,"endTime":1408.8,"body":"secure. That becomes a culture"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1408.8,"endTime":1411.53,"body":"shock, because they look at the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1408.8,"endTime":1411.53,"body":"money they've been spending, and"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1411.53,"endTime":1414.53,"body":"not understanding that it"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1411.53,"endTime":1414.53,"body":"doesn't cover OT maybe at all."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1414.68,"endTime":1417.32,"body":"And so for some people, it's the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1414.68,"endTime":1417.32,"body":"first time ever for them to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1417.32,"endTime":1420.56,"body":"invest in OT, and they put"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1417.32,"endTime":1420.56,"body":"everything into IT, not"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1420.56,"endTime":1422.57,"body":"realizing there's supposed to be"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1420.56,"endTime":1422.57,"body":"a mix, not realizing that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1422.57,"endTime":1425.3,"body":"there's differences in"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1422.57,"endTime":1425.3,"body":"technology or protections. And"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1425.3,"endTime":1428.81,"body":"that is where unfortunately, I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1425.3,"endTime":1428.81,"body":"see a lot of folks if they're"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1428.81,"endTime":1432.08,"body":"just starting on this journey,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1428.81,"endTime":1432.08,"body":"they get sticker shock from the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1432.08,"endTime":1434.48,"body":"perspective of I've already"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1432.08,"endTime":1434.48,"body":"spent money, what do you mean, I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1434.48,"endTime":1437.66,"body":"need to, I didn't, I didn't do"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1434.48,"endTime":1437.66,"body":"anything? That's that's a scary"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1437.66,"endTime":1438.8,"body":"prospect for some people."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1438.86,"endTime":1442.01,"body":"Jason, can you give"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1438.86,"endTime":1442.01,"body":"an example of like, just it can"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1442.01,"endTime":1445.76,"body":"be a basic one, like where has"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1442.01,"endTime":1445.76,"body":"OT, where's Dragos thwarted an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1445.76,"endTime":1449.33,"body":"attack? Like, what was the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1445.76,"endTime":1449.33,"body":"attack that came in? Like, how"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1449.33,"endTime":1452.66,"body":"did it stop it? Like, what's a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1449.33,"endTime":1452.66,"body":"common one that you see every"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1452.66,"endTime":1453.02,"body":"day?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1453.29,"endTime":1455.63,"body":"Right? So you"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1453.29,"endTime":1455.63,"body":"know, there are the cool sexy"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1455.63,"endTime":1458.51,"body":"things that I could talk about."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1455.63,"endTime":1458.51,"body":"But I can also talk about the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1458.51,"endTime":1459.32,"body":"really mundane."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1459.56,"endTime":1461.15,"body":"Well let's start"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1459.56,"endTime":1461.15,"body":"with the mundane, then you can"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1461.15,"endTime":1462.53,"body":"get really sexy if you want."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1462.0,"endTime":1464.331,"body":"Because the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1462.0,"endTime":1464.331,"body":"mundane stuff like frankly, when"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1464.384,"endTime":1467.509,"body":"an IT person comes into a plant,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1464.384,"endTime":1467.509,"body":"and we can talk about some"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1467.562,"endTime":1470.847,"body":"things that could get detected,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1467.562,"endTime":1470.847,"body":"we can find things like common"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1470.9,"endTime":1474.079,"body":"IT commodity malware from like"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1470.9,"endTime":1474.079,"body":"the 2000s, right? I'm talking"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1474.132,"endTime":1476.675,"body":"like Conficker, code red,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1474.132,"endTime":1476.675,"body":"slammer, and it can be"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1476.728,"endTime":1479.854,"body":"propagating throughout the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1476.728,"endTime":1479.854,"body":"network of a generation plant or"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1479.907,"endTime":1483.192,"body":"facility. And the traditional IT"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1479.907,"endTime":1483.192,"body":"response will be knee jerk, I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1483.245,"endTime":1486.476,"body":"need to be able to quarantine"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1483.245,"endTime":1486.476,"body":"that, I need to be able to wipe"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1486.529,"endTime":1489.814,"body":"that machine. But that machine"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1486.529,"endTime":1489.814,"body":"may be doing operations. And so"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1489.867,"endTime":1493.046,"body":"we'd actually talk to them about"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1489.867,"endTime":1493.046,"body":"is actually you should just"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1493.099,"endTime":1496.331,"body":"leave that running. If it's not"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1493.099,"endTime":1496.331,"body":"impacting operations leave it"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1496.384,"endTime":1499.404,"body":"running. I understand Conficker"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1496.384,"endTime":1499.404,"body":"it's a nuisance, it's not"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1499.457,"endTime":1502.424,"body":"really, you know, that great,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1499.457,"endTime":1502.424,"body":"but it doesn't know OT, it"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1502.477,"endTime":1505.655,"body":"doesn't know how to bring down"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1502.477,"endTime":1505.655,"body":"the plant. The probability of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1505.708,"endTime":1508.569,"body":"doing so is so minimal. It's"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1505.708,"endTime":1508.569,"body":"clogging up some traffic,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1508.622,"endTime":1511.748,"body":"clogging up some resources, but"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1508.622,"endTime":1511.748,"body":"if everything's fine, let's"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1511.801,"endTime":1514.715,"body":"worry about in the next"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1511.801,"endTime":1514.715,"body":"maintenence cycle, which may be"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1514.768,"endTime":1518.053,"body":"three months from now. And so"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1514.768,"endTime":1518.053,"body":"again, from a detection platform"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1518.106,"endTime":1521.496,"body":"perspective, finding the mundane"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1518.106,"endTime":1521.496,"body":"is just as important as sort of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1521.549,"endTime":1524.463,"body":"the cool intricate things. And"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1521.549,"endTime":1524.463,"body":"those mundane things are"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1524.516,"endTime":1527.801,"body":"happening more often than not."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1524.516,"endTime":1527.801,"body":"It doesn't mean it's not a good"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1527.854,"endTime":1530.98,"body":"day, like you still talk to an"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1527.854,"endTime":1530.98,"body":"operator be like, so did you"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1531.033,"endTime":1534.371,"body":"plug in a USB that you shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1531.033,"endTime":1534.371,"body":"have? Like, there's still like"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1534.424,"endTime":1537.761,"body":"an investigation. It's like, I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1534.424,"endTime":1537.761,"body":"want to like undercover this not"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1537.814,"endTime":1540.305,"body":"a, you know, no worries"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1537.814,"endTime":1540.305,"body":"situation. Somebody did"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1540.358,"endTime":1543.43,"body":"something they shouldn't have,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1540.358,"endTime":1543.43,"body":"but it's not bring down the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1543.483,"endTime":1546.609,"body":"plant, which could be $50,000"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1543.483,"endTime":1546.609,"body":"per day of, you know, product"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1546.662,"endTime":1550.053,"body":"that could be leveraged in your"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1546.662,"endTime":1550.053,"body":"organization. So the mundane is,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1550.106,"endTime":1552.808,"body":"you know, pretty mundane. I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1550.106,"endTime":1552.808,"body":"would say that the more"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1552.861,"endTime":1556.252,"body":"escalated things are when you're"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1552.861,"endTime":1556.252,"body":"able to sort of see and what we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1556.305,"endTime":1559.483,"body":"do are called threat hunts. We"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1556.305,"endTime":1559.483,"body":"actually build out hypotheses"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1559.536,"endTime":1562.556,"body":"for what would you do if you"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1559.536,"endTime":1562.556,"body":"were an adversary, and being"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1562.609,"endTime":1565.576,"body":"able to understand and see that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1562.609,"endTime":1565.576,"body":"and in particular, those"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1565.629,"endTime":1568.808,"body":"boundaries between IT and OT,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1565.629,"endTime":1568.808,"body":"similar to what I talked about"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1568.861,"endTime":1572.093,"body":"with Colonial Pipeline, right."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1568.861,"endTime":1572.093,"body":"It wasn't really an OT attack,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1572.146,"endTime":1574.954,"body":"it was an IT attack, but"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1572.146,"endTime":1574.954,"body":"crossing those boundaries is"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1575.007,"endTime":1578.45,"body":"really important. And being able"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1575.007,"endTime":1578.45,"body":"to detect, you know, any sort of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1578.503,"endTime":1581.735,"body":"activity there, I would say is"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1578.503,"endTime":1581.735,"body":"where things get escalated and"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1581.788,"endTime":1583.59,"body":"get a little bit more interesting."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1583.9,"endTime":1586.27,"body":"Yeah, speaking"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1583.9,"endTime":1586.27,"body":"about crossing the boundaries"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1586.27,"endTime":1590.14,"body":"between OT and IT, I'm curious,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1586.27,"endTime":1590.14,"body":"how does cloud enter the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1590.14,"endTime":1594.67,"body":"conversation here? How many"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1590.14,"endTime":1594.67,"body":"processes have the OT side of"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1594.67,"endTime":1598.69,"body":"the business offloaded to a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1594.67,"endTime":1598.69,"body":"public or private cloud and what"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1598.69,"endTime":1601.78,"body":"are the implications when it"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1598.69,"endTime":1601.78,"body":"comes to security? And how does"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1601.78,"endTime":1603.61,"body":"Dragos tackle that conversation?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1606.93,"endTime":1611.04,"body":"said, before,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1606.93,"endTime":1611.04,"body":"I've gone to chemical facilities"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1614.79,"endTime":1619.14,"body":"where, and they're real"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1614.79,"endTime":1619.14,"body":"conversations, because you can"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1619.14,"endTime":1622.14,"body":"talk about real cost savings, if"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1619.14,"endTime":1622.14,"body":"you, you know, were to implement"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1622.14,"endTime":1624.6,"body":"this cloud solution, not only"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1622.14,"endTime":1624.6,"body":"we're monitoring your fleet, but"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1624.6,"endTime":1627.66,"body":"the worldwide fleet of all the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1624.6,"endTime":1627.66,"body":"things that we as a vendor can"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1627.66,"endTime":1630.9,"body":"see, we can save you maybe"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1627.66,"endTime":1630.9,"body":"millions of dollars in"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1630.9,"endTime":1633.03,"body":"efficiency, if you just"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1630.9,"endTime":1633.03,"body":"installed this one cloud"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1633.03,"endTime":1636.78,"body":"solution. What we recommend"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1633.03,"endTime":1636.78,"body":"there is having a dedicated DMZ,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1636.81,"endTime":1640.23,"body":"dedicated demilitarized zone"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1636.81,"endTime":1640.23,"body":"just for the cloud, and have"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1640.23,"endTime":1643.32,"body":"monitoring on that, right. Being"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1640.23,"endTime":1643.32,"body":"able to say it's not persistent,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1643.47,"endTime":1645.24,"body":"we're going to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1643.47,"endTime":1645.24,"body":"we're detecting the things that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1645.24,"endTime":1648.75,"body":"we need to detect. But don't"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1645.24,"endTime":1648.75,"body":"muddy it up with like the way I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1648.75,"endTime":1651.54,"body":"connect to the enterprise IT"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1648.75,"endTime":1651.54,"body":"like have something dedicated"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1651.54,"endTime":1654.93,"body":"just for that solution. Because"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1651.54,"endTime":1654.93,"body":"we're in the wild, wild west,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1654.93,"endTime":1658.44,"body":"when it comes to the cloud and"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1654.93,"endTime":1658.44,"body":"OT, we need to be able to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1658.44,"endTime":1660.45,"body":"monitor a lot more than we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1658.44,"endTime":1660.45,"body":"currently are."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1660.81,"endTime":1664.68,"body":"What are some ways"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1660.81,"endTime":1664.68,"body":"for, let's say we have a CEO"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1664.68,"endTime":1668.7,"body":"listening to our podcast. What"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1664.68,"endTime":1668.7,"body":"are some questions that he"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1668.7,"endTime":1673.38,"body":"should ask his organization to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1668.7,"endTime":1673.38,"body":"assess the use case for"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1673.44,"endTime":1678.42,"body":"introducing a conversation with"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1673.44,"endTime":1678.42,"body":"Dragos? Who should he consult"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1678.57,"endTime":1682.32,"body":"and speak with? What questions"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1678.57,"endTime":1682.32,"body":"should he ask? How does he"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1682.32,"endTime":1686.52,"body":"start? Yeah, or she? Excuse me,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1682.32,"endTime":1686.52,"body":"he or she begin?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1686.51,"endTime":1688.507,"body":"So I could"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1686.51,"endTime":1688.507,"body":"start it off as a very simple"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1688.557,"endTime":1691.503,"body":"one of sitting down with the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1688.557,"endTime":1691.503,"body":"folks in your plant and asking"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1691.553,"endTime":1694.599,"body":"them what does a bad day really"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1691.553,"endTime":1694.599,"body":"look like? They already know,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1694.649,"endTime":1697.795,"body":"from an operational perspective."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1694.649,"endTime":1697.795,"body":"They're like, oh, that turbine"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1697.845,"endTime":1700.841,"body":"over there starts making this"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1697.845,"endTime":1700.841,"body":"humming noise like run for the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1700.891,"endTime":1703.537,"body":"hills. But they've probably"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1700.891,"endTime":1703.537,"body":"never looked at it from a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1703.587,"endTime":1706.483,"body":"cybersecurity perspective"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1703.587,"endTime":1706.483,"body":"before. And so having a security"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1706.533,"endTime":1709.479,"body":"person with them to understand,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1706.533,"endTime":1709.479,"body":"could we do that from cyber"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1709.529,"endTime":1711.926,"body":"means that starts a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1709.529,"endTime":1711.926,"body":"conversation. The next piece"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1711.976,"endTime":1714.772,"body":"that I would then ask is how"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1711.976,"endTime":1714.772,"body":"would we know? When we talk"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1714.822,"endTime":1717.968,"body":"about a, you know, event in OT"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1714.822,"endTime":1717.968,"body":"it's not going to be the classic"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1718.018,"endTime":1721.014,"body":"1995 film The Hackers. I'm not"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1718.018,"endTime":1721.014,"body":"going to have a virus singing"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1721.064,"endTime":1724.21,"body":"Row, Row Row Your Boat, whilst"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1721.064,"endTime":1724.21,"body":"capsizing ships. I've never seen"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1724.26,"endTime":1727.206,"body":"an adversary put that much"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1724.26,"endTime":1727.206,"body":"dedication into writing malware."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1727.256,"endTime":1730.302,"body":"What you will see and what it"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1727.256,"endTime":1730.302,"body":"will feel like is a maintenance"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1730.352,"endTime":1733.298,"body":"event, right? The controller"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1730.352,"endTime":1733.298,"body":"over there no longer operates."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1733.348,"endTime":1735.995,"body":"It's not communicating to the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1733.348,"endTime":1735.995,"body":"main HMI, human machine"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1736.044,"endTime":1739.19,"body":"interface, where the operator is"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1736.044,"endTime":1739.19,"body":"actually working with a thing."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1739.24,"endTime":1742.186,"body":"And so if it looks and feels"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1739.24,"endTime":1742.186,"body":"like a maintenance event, when"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1742.236,"endTime":1745.332,"body":"would you ever know it's a cyber"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1742.236,"endTime":1745.332,"body":"event? And what CEOs find jaw"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1745.382,"endTime":1748.578,"body":"dropping for those aspects is we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1745.382,"endTime":1748.578,"body":"would never know. And so that's"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1748.628,"endTime":1751.474,"body":"where the idea of Dragos as a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1748.628,"endTime":1751.474,"body":"detection platform come in,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1751.524,"endTime":1754.52,"body":"because we will be able to tell"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1751.524,"endTime":1754.52,"body":"you, yeah, that's actually a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1754.57,"endTime":1757.616,"body":"maintenance event. No, this one"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1754.57,"endTime":1757.616,"body":"actually looks like activity,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1757.666,"endTime":1760.612,"body":"you need to be able to do an"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1757.666,"endTime":1760.612,"body":"incident response and recovery"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1760.662,"endTime":1763.758,"body":"plan ASAP to be able to bring"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1760.662,"endTime":1763.758,"body":"you back to a safe state. And so"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1763.808,"endTime":1766.954,"body":"those two questions what my bad"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1763.808,"endTime":1766.954,"body":"day looks like, and how would I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1767.004,"endTime":1770.3,"body":"know would be the two that I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1767.004,"endTime":1770.3,"body":"would give any CEO to start off with?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1770.54,"endTime":1772.79,"body":"Switching gears a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1770.54,"endTime":1772.79,"body":"little bit so we talked we've"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1772.79,"endTime":1777.41,"body":"talked a lot about here IT vs."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1772.79,"endTime":1777.41,"body":"OT, I want to really muddy the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1777.41,"endTime":1783.02,"body":"waters, IoT. So an IoT is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1777.41,"endTime":1783.02,"body":"popping up, let's go 5g, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1783.02,"endTime":1788.6,"body":"know. And I can't listen to a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1783.02,"endTime":1788.6,"body":"podcast now on any podcast like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1788.63,"endTime":1793.55,"body":"some form of 5g IoT is now"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1788.63,"endTime":1793.55,"body":"coming in. Like last night I was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1793.55,"endTime":1796.07,"body":"listening to a podcast and it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1793.55,"endTime":1796.07,"body":"was like \"You tired of your"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1796.07,"endTime":1799.37,"body":"podcast dropping? Get T Mobile"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1796.07,"endTime":1799.37,"body":"because our 5g network blah blah"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1799.37,"endTime":1802.43,"body":"blah.\" Like it's ridiculous the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1799.37,"endTime":1802.43,"body":"marketing that's out there, but"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1802.43,"endTime":1806.51,"body":"it's coming. So you've got the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1802.43,"endTime":1806.51,"body":"mobile networks improving."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1806.54,"endTime":1809.63,"body":"You've got 5g been rumored for a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1806.54,"endTime":1809.63,"body":"while. It's coming, but it's not"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1809.63,"endTime":1814.73,"body":"quite there yet. Define like IOT"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1809.63,"endTime":1814.73,"body":"security and OT security. Like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1814.73,"endTime":1817.46,"body":"where's the convergence? Are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1814.73,"endTime":1817.46,"body":"they totally separate? Because I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1817.46,"endTime":1820.76,"body":"think sometimes they do get"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1817.46,"endTime":1820.76,"body":"interchanged. And it's not clear"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1820.76,"endTime":1822.02,"body":"like, what's the difference?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1822.0,"endTime":1824.55,"body":"So for me,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1822.0,"endTime":1824.55,"body":"the difference is that the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1824.55,"endTime":1828.93,"body":"industrial scale, right, because"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1824.55,"endTime":1828.93,"body":"we do have IIoT as one of the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1828.93,"endTime":1831.6,"body":"other tag lines, which is"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1828.93,"endTime":1831.6,"body":"industrial internet of things,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1831.72,"endTime":1835.74,"body":"or industry 4.0, or digital"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1831.72,"endTime":1835.74,"body":"transformation discussions. And"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1835.74,"endTime":1839.25,"body":"it's the same concept, but it's"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1835.74,"endTime":1839.25,"body":"elevated. So instead of talking"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1839.25,"endTime":1843.45,"body":"about, you know, my HVAC in my"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1839.25,"endTime":1843.45,"body":"home, which would be IoT, I'm"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1843.45,"endTime":1846.24,"body":"talking about a multimillion"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1843.45,"endTime":1846.24,"body":"dollar refrigeration unit in a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1846.24,"endTime":1849.78,"body":"plant. They may still have the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1846.24,"endTime":1849.78,"body":"5g conversation, they may still"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1849.78,"endTime":1852.33,"body":"have this idea of being able to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1849.78,"endTime":1852.33,"body":"program everything from an iPad,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1852.33,"endTime":1856.56,"body":"which scares the bejesus out of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1852.33,"endTime":1856.56,"body":"me. So the concepts are the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1856.56,"endTime":1859.2,"body":"same, but the scale is very"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1856.56,"endTime":1859.2,"body":"different. And so when you start"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1859.2,"endTime":1861.6,"body":"talking about things in an"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1859.2,"endTime":1861.6,"body":"industrial scale, that's where"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1861.6,"endTime":1865.77,"body":"the IIoT piece comes in and"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1861.6,"endTime":1865.77,"body":"that's where you'd find, you"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1865.77,"endTime":1869.07,"body":"know, the Dragos' of the world"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1865.77,"endTime":1869.07,"body":"sort of working through what can"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1869.07,"endTime":1873.12,"body":"we do to prevent a really bad"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1869.07,"endTime":1873.12,"body":"day from happening? IoT side, I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1873.12,"endTime":1876.45,"body":"would probably put that into a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1873.12,"endTime":1876.45,"body":"blended area more so where we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1876.45,"endTime":1879.0,"body":"probably sit with IT, but you"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1876.45,"endTime":1879.0,"body":"need to understand the impacts."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1879.45,"endTime":1882.6,"body":"So for example, what do we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1879.45,"endTime":1882.6,"body":"consider our data center"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1882.6,"endTime":1886.23,"body":"processes, our data center HVAC,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1882.6,"endTime":1886.23,"body":"that may be industrial. You"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1886.23,"endTime":1888.72,"body":"know, some of these data centers"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1886.23,"endTime":1888.72,"body":"have their own power facilities"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1888.72,"endTime":1891.09,"body":"have their own sort of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1888.72,"endTime":1891.09,"body":"industrial refrigeration"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1891.12,"endTime":1894.69,"body":"capabilities, in which case, I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1891.12,"endTime":1894.69,"body":"would put that under OT, but if"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1894.69,"endTime":1897.81,"body":"it's something like our office"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1894.69,"endTime":1897.81,"body":"building, or you know, whether"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1897.81,"endTime":1901.71,"body":"it be elevators, HVAC, anything"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1897.81,"endTime":1901.71,"body":"that could be a 01, that moves"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1901.71,"endTime":1904.8,"body":"something in a building that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1901.71,"endTime":1904.8,"body":"could be in this weird area"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1904.8,"endTime":1907.8,"body":"where sure it can sit within"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1904.8,"endTime":1907.8,"body":"building management, but it"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1907.8,"endTime":1910.74,"body":"probably needs to have some"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":1907.8,"endTime":1910.74,"body":"overlay then with IT as well."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1911.02,"endTime":1913.33,"body":"Got it. It's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1911.02,"endTime":1913.33,"body":"interesting. What about like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1913.63,"endTime":1916.72,"body":"let's take it to a an industry"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1913.63,"endTime":1916.72,"body":"that everyone kind of knows,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1916.72,"endTime":1920.29,"body":"like the food service industry."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1916.72,"endTime":1920.29,"body":"We all, we all go to, like fast"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1920.29,"endTime":1923.26,"body":"casual, or, you know, there's a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1920.29,"endTime":1923.26,"body":"lot of technology coming out"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1923.26,"endTime":1928.24,"body":"there with like, the like food"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1923.26,"endTime":1928.24,"body":"safety, and you know, we're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1928.24,"endTime":1930.61,"body":"talking about kind of critical"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1928.24,"endTime":1930.61,"body":"infrastructure when we talk"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1930.61,"endTime":1934.69,"body":"about OT versus IoT, but like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1930.61,"endTime":1934.69,"body":"for a retail food chain critical"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1934.72,"endTime":1938.47,"body":"processes are like, how safe is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1934.72,"endTime":1938.47,"body":"the food and how likely is the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1938.47,"endTime":1941.38,"body":"food to go bad? Like, do you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1938.47,"endTime":1941.38,"body":"consider that IoT? Versus like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1941.38,"endTime":1943.72,"body":"how do you where do you draw the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1941.38,"endTime":1943.72,"body":"line? Or does it?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1944.68,"endTime":1947.17,"body":"Yeah, so I would say, so we've"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1944.68,"endTime":1947.17,"body":"actually done a lot of work in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1947.17,"endTime":1949.96,"body":"food and beverage industries."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1947.17,"endTime":1949.96,"body":"And it's, it's again, at the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1949.96,"endTime":1952.6,"body":"plant level. So you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1949.96,"endTime":1952.6,"body":"where's the food being"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1952.6,"endTime":1955.72,"body":"processed, and doing sort of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1952.6,"endTime":1955.72,"body":"like the crown jewels analysis"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1955.72,"endTime":1957.88,"body":"of what would a really bad day"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1955.72,"endTime":1957.88,"body":"look like in a food processing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1957.88,"endTime":1961.63,"body":"plant? Absolutely, is safety"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1957.88,"endTime":1961.63,"body":"systems, and not just sort of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1961.63,"endTime":1964.99,"body":"safety of the food, but also"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1961.63,"endTime":1964.99,"body":"safety, of the people working at"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1964.99,"endTime":1968.38,"body":"the plant, because those"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1964.99,"endTime":1968.38,"body":"environments are rough. Like if"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1968.53,"endTime":1970.69,"body":"you've ever been to a chicken"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1968.53,"endTime":1970.69,"body":"processing plant, it is a is a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1970.69,"endTime":1973.78,"body":"rough and dirty place to be. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1970.69,"endTime":1973.78,"body":"so making sure that again, we're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1973.78,"endTime":1977.47,"body":"talking about safety, both from"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1973.78,"endTime":1977.47,"body":"the end use product, as well as"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1977.5,"endTime":1980.26,"body":"safety of the people there is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1977.5,"endTime":1980.26,"body":"where again, the Dragos"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1980.26,"endTime":1983.47,"body":"conversation would happen. That"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1980.26,"endTime":1983.47,"body":"is more like on the, you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1983.47,"endTime":1987.19,"body":"wholesale manufacturing side of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1983.47,"endTime":1987.19,"body":"the food and beverage industry."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1987.37,"endTime":1989.68,"body":"As we get more into, like what's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1987.37,"endTime":1989.68,"body":"happened at the restaurant"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1989.68,"endTime":1992.59,"body":"floor, that's probably where we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1989.68,"endTime":1992.59,"body":"see more IoT and that again,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1992.59,"endTime":1995.32,"body":"will probably fit more inside"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1992.59,"endTime":1995.32,"body":"the IT framework of things."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1995.47,"endTime":2001.38,"body":"Got it. Really confusing. OT,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1995.47,"endTime":2001.38,"body":"IOT IIoT, IT? We should have"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2001.98,"endTime":2005.22,"body":"more I's and O's in there,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2001.98,"endTime":2005.22,"body":"honestly. I mean, let's keep"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2005.22,"endTime":2007.98,"body":"adding. So no, thanks for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2005.22,"endTime":2007.98,"body":"sharing. This is it's a really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2007.98,"endTime":2011.7,"body":"fascinating topic. Keith, I'll"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2007.98,"endTime":2011.7,"body":"let you kind of chime in here."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2011.94,"endTime":2018.33,"body":"Yeah, sure. I'm"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2011.94,"endTime":2018.33,"body":"curious. Where's the IIOT IAB,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2018.48,"endTime":2021.78,"body":"where's the industry going? What"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2018.48,"endTime":2021.78,"body":"do you see coming down the pipe"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2021.78,"endTime":2025.8,"body":"for Dragoa in the next year?"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2021.78,"endTime":2025.8,"body":"What is the new technology? What"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2025.8,"endTime":2030.54,"body":"can people get excited about"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2025.8,"endTime":2030.54,"body":"that you're developing and the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2030.54,"endTime":2033.75,"body":"industry as a whole, the OT"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2030.54,"endTime":2033.75,"body":"cybersecurity industry?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2034.29,"endTime":2036.09,"body":"Yeah. So I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2034.29,"endTime":2036.09,"body":"would say with Dragos in"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2036.09,"endTime":2039.69,"body":"particular, just everyone's"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2036.09,"endTime":2039.69,"body":"seeing that, I would say,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2040.77,"endTime":2045.09,"body":"convergence of what we do"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2040.77,"endTime":2045.09,"body":"internally. So again, if you"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2045.12,"endTime":2047.13,"body":"want to be able to have a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2045.12,"endTime":2047.13,"body":"platform, it's meeting you where"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2047.13,"endTime":2051.36,"body":"you are maybe in that journey to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2047.13,"endTime":2051.36,"body":"the platform, you need services"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2051.36,"endTime":2054.48,"body":"to be able to start you out,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2051.36,"endTime":2054.48,"body":"right. Not everybody can, you"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2054.48,"endTime":2056.61,"body":"know, immediately get a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2054.48,"endTime":2056.61,"body":"technology in some cases, and"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2056.61,"endTime":2057.96,"body":"they want to be able to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2056.61,"endTime":2057.96,"body":"understand their environment a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2057.96,"endTime":2060.63,"body":"little more, in which case, we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2057.96,"endTime":2060.63,"body":"leverage our services"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2060.63,"endTime":2063.24,"body":"department. Maybe you just"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2060.63,"endTime":2063.24,"body":"really want to be able to have"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2063.27,"endTime":2066.0,"body":"an instant response retainer."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2063.27,"endTime":2066.0,"body":"That's one of the great services"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2066.0,"endTime":2068.94,"body":"that we provide is, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2066.0,"endTime":2068.94,"body":"what a bad day looks like and I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2068.94,"endTime":2071.28,"body":"don't have the security"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2068.94,"endTime":2071.28,"body":"expertise in house to be able to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2071.28,"endTime":2074.85,"body":"respond, being able to bring"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2071.28,"endTime":2074.85,"body":"somebody on site from our team"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2074.85,"endTime":2078.63,"body":"to help out is again, where I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2074.85,"endTime":2078.63,"body":"see the future of the state"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2078.63,"endTime":2081.87,"body":"going is a combination of all"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2078.63,"endTime":2081.87,"body":"these things, intelligence,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2081.9,"endTime":2084.78,"body":"response, platform, and being"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2081.9,"endTime":2084.78,"body":"able to have professional"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2084.78,"endTime":2088.17,"body":"services. That's where, you"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2084.78,"endTime":2088.17,"body":"know, Dragos we've been focusing"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2088.17,"endTime":2090.18,"body":"on and we're going to continue"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2088.17,"endTime":2090.18,"body":"to focus going into the next"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2090.18,"endTime":2093.24,"body":"year. For the industry, I think"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2090.18,"endTime":2093.24,"body":"we actually already tackled the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2093.24,"endTime":2096.18,"body":"big one, which is this idea of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2093.24,"endTime":2096.18,"body":"digital transformation and"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2096.18,"endTime":2099.84,"body":"cloud. There's no avoiding it."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2096.18,"endTime":2099.84,"body":"Now 20 years ago, we were having"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2099.84,"endTime":2104.55,"body":"the conversation about TCP IP."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2099.84,"endTime":2104.55,"body":"And so what does it mean to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2104.82,"endTime":2107.07,"body":"start connecting substations to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2104.82,"endTime":2107.07,"body":"each other that were never"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2107.07,"endTime":2109.59,"body":"connected before? And"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2107.07,"endTime":2109.59,"body":"professional security"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2109.59,"endTime":2112.56,"body":"professionals say \"No, no way,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2109.59,"endTime":2112.56,"body":"no how, you'll never have TCP IP"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2112.56,"endTime":2115.26,"body":"in my substation.\" And they"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2112.56,"endTime":2115.26,"body":"obviously won the debate, which"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2115.26,"endTime":2118.32,"body":"is why we have no TCP IP. And"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2115.26,"endTime":2118.32,"body":"that's not true, we lost the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2118.32,"endTime":2121.62,"body":"debate really badly. Because we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2118.32,"endTime":2121.62,"body":"said from a security perspective"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2121.62,"endTime":2125.28,"body":"no, not understanding there's a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2121.62,"endTime":2125.28,"body":"business need for efficiencies"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2125.31,"endTime":2127.8,"body":"that was going to win the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2125.31,"endTime":2127.8,"body":"debate. Same thing's happening"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2127.8,"endTime":2130.44,"body":"right now with cloud. If any"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2127.8,"endTime":2130.44,"body":"security practitioner out there"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2130.44,"endTime":2133.29,"body":"saying no to cloud, you're going"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2130.44,"endTime":2133.29,"body":"to lose the debate, because"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2133.29,"endTime":2136.11,"body":"we're talking about so much more"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2133.29,"endTime":2136.11,"body":"efficiency. Instead, you have to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2136.11,"endTime":2139.86,"body":"say yes, and. Yes, and here's"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2136.11,"endTime":2139.86,"body":"how we secure it. And I think"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2139.86,"endTime":2142.59,"body":"that's where we're going to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2139.86,"endTime":2142.59,"body":"really see the next drivers of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2142.59,"endTime":2144.9,"body":"things happening. I'm talking"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2142.59,"endTime":2144.9,"body":"about regulation, electric"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2144.9,"endTime":2147.45,"body":"sector, they're already looking"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2144.9,"endTime":2147.45,"body":"at virtualization and cloud"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2147.45,"endTime":2150.09,"body":"technologies and what that could"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2147.45,"endTime":2150.09,"body":"mean. And I think that's where"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2150.09,"endTime":2153.03,"body":"we're going to see probably the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2150.09,"endTime":2153.03,"body":"next decade or so really pour"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2153.03,"endTime":2155.61,"body":"out in terms of what we're going"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2153.03,"endTime":2155.61,"body":"to do in the OT space."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2155.82,"endTime":2159.12,"body":"It's kind of a very"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2155.82,"endTime":2159.12,"body":"obvious topic, like we should"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2159.12,"endTime":2162.09,"body":"secure the most critical pieces"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2159.12,"endTime":2162.09,"body":"of our plants, our production"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2162.09,"endTime":2165.63,"body":"lines, etc. But it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2162.09,"endTime":2165.63,"body":"complex. I mean, it's like, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2165.63,"endTime":2168.39,"body":"really are getting into the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2165.63,"endTime":2168.39,"body":"weeds of IT, the weeds of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2168.39,"endTime":2172.86,"body":"business processes technology."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2168.39,"endTime":2172.86,"body":"One, is it the government's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2172.86,"endTime":2175.53,"body":"responsibility to continue to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2172.86,"endTime":2175.53,"body":"pass legislation to like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2175.53,"endTime":2178.98,"body":"regulate the OT and have"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2175.53,"endTime":2178.98,"body":"requirements run OT security?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2178.98,"endTime":2182.22,"body":"Like, how do you see that whole"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2178.98,"endTime":2182.22,"body":"piece playing out? And like, do"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2182.22,"endTime":2185.28,"body":"you think we're doing a good job"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2182.22,"endTime":2185.28,"body":"as a, you know, as a nation or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2185.28,"endTime":2186.96,"body":"as a world like regulating?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2187.2,"endTime":2189.21,"body":"I think some"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2187.2,"endTime":2189.21,"body":"sectors have done better than"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2189.24,"endTime":2192.18,"body":"others. I also think some"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2189.24,"endTime":2192.18,"body":"regions have done better than"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2192.18,"endTime":2196.98,"body":"others. We actually, 2022, I"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2192.18,"endTime":2196.98,"body":"just did a Sans ICS summit talk"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2196.98,"endTime":2201.78,"body":"on this, but 2022 was the most"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2196.98,"endTime":2201.78,"body":"active year ever for ICS OT"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2201.78,"endTime":2204.45,"body":"security standards and"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2201.78,"endTime":2204.45,"body":"regulations. It seems like"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2204.45,"endTime":2206.76,"body":"everyone just got hip to it all"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2204.45,"endTime":2206.76,"body":"of a sudden. And so we started"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2206.76,"endTime":2209.16,"body":"seeing activity out of Europe,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2206.76,"endTime":2209.16,"body":"activity out of Australia,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2209.73,"endTime":2213.21,"body":"activity across the globe,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2209.73,"endTime":2213.21,"body":"focusing on this problem. I do"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2213.21,"endTime":2215.91,"body":"think that there's some value to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2213.21,"endTime":2215.91,"body":"a public private partnership"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2215.91,"endTime":2218.43,"body":"that talks about what should we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2215.91,"endTime":2218.43,"body":"do? What should be the bare"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2218.43,"endTime":2221.28,"body":"minimum requirements that we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2218.43,"endTime":2221.28,"body":"should all agree like we can do?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2221.67,"endTime":2223.71,"body":"But there also needs to be"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2221.67,"endTime":2223.71,"body":"conversation about okay, well,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2223.71,"endTime":2226.38,"body":"how do we actually incentivize"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2223.71,"endTime":2226.38,"body":"that? How do we put that in"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2226.41,"endTime":2229.32,"body":"place? There have been also some"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2226.41,"endTime":2229.32,"body":"really good marks there too,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2229.65,"endTime":2231.99,"body":"here in the United States, the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2229.65,"endTime":2231.99,"body":"Federal Energy Regulatory"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2231.99,"endTime":2235.17,"body":"Commission, just released an"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2231.99,"endTime":2235.17,"body":"order talking about incentives."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2235.23,"endTime":2238.44,"body":"So how do we incentivize you"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2235.23,"endTime":2238.44,"body":"being more mature than just the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2238.44,"endTime":2240.93,"body":"very baseline minimum"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2238.44,"endTime":2240.93,"body":"requirement standards that we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2240.93,"endTime":2244.74,"body":"have? And I'd be curious to see"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2240.93,"endTime":2244.74,"body":"how that goes. So I think we're"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2244.74,"endTime":2246.3,"body":"still discovering the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2244.74,"endTime":2246.3,"body":"relationship, even though we've"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2246.3,"endTime":2248.88,"body":"been doing it for so long, in"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2246.3,"endTime":2248.88,"body":"terms of what our strengths and"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2248.88,"endTime":2251.97,"body":"weaknesses for government and"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2248.88,"endTime":2251.97,"body":"private sector, but I do believe"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2251.97,"endTime":2255.42,"body":"that both parties have a sort of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2251.97,"endTime":2255.42,"body":"spot at the table as it were."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2255.66,"endTime":2258.33,"body":"That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2255.66,"endTime":2258.33,"body":"Jason, we're running up toward"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2258.33,"endTime":2261.78,"body":"the end of the podcast and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2258.33,"endTime":2261.78,"body":"typically, toward the end, we"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2261.78,"endTime":2266.85,"body":"like to spend a little time"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2261.78,"endTime":2266.85,"body":"talking about if, if you had a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2266.85,"endTime":2272.82,"body":"message that you could broadcast"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2266.85,"endTime":2272.82,"body":"to everyone in the industry, any"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2272.85,"endTime":2278.37,"body":"decision maker or organization,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2272.85,"endTime":2278.37,"body":"what would that message be?"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2278.43,"endTime":2281.28,"body":"Let's say you had a billboard"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2278.43,"endTime":2281.28,"body":"that everyone could see, what"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2281.28,"endTime":2281.85,"body":"would you say?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2282.26,"endTime":2285.08,"body":"So if I were"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2282.26,"endTime":2285.08,"body":"to broadcast a message, it would"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2285.08,"endTime":2290.24,"body":"absolutely be that conversation"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2285.08,"endTime":2290.24,"body":"about how would you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2290.24,"endTime":2294.53,"body":"are secure and safe in OT. One"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2290.24,"endTime":2294.53,"body":"of the things that we talk about"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2294.53,"endTime":2298.7,"body":"a lot is that if you're not"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2294.53,"endTime":2298.7,"body":"cybersecure in OT, then can you"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2298.7,"endTime":2302.6,"body":"really be cybersafe. And that's"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2298.7,"endTime":2302.6,"body":"this big conversations about"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2302.63,"endTime":2305.12,"body":"again, if I don't know an"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2302.63,"endTime":2305.12,"body":"attacker is there, I send an"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2305.12,"endTime":2308.27,"body":"engineer on site, they're going"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2305.12,"endTime":2308.27,"body":"after the safety systems. As an"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2308.27,"endTime":2310.58,"body":"engineer, I always want to make"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2308.27,"endTime":2310.58,"body":"sure that I'm going to be safe."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2310.61,"endTime":2313.49,"body":"And so that's absolutely, I'd"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2310.61,"endTime":2313.49,"body":"probably even just shrink it"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2313.49,"endTime":2317.87,"body":"down to are you cyber safe? And"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2313.49,"endTime":2317.87,"body":"make sure that safety and"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2317.87,"endTime":2320.0,"body":"security are talked about in the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2317.87,"endTime":2320.0,"body":"same breath when I'm an"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2320.0,"endTime":2323.9,"body":"industrial plant. If we can do"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2320.0,"endTime":2323.9,"body":"that, then I think that the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2324.08,"endTime":2327.5,"body":"cultural issues, the funding"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2324.08,"endTime":2327.5,"body":"issues, the Hey, is this really"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2327.5,"endTime":2330.5,"body":"important all sort of go away."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2327.5,"endTime":2330.5,"body":"Because we understand that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2330.53,"endTime":2333.2,"body":"safety and security are going to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2330.53,"endTime":2333.2,"body":"be the same thing when I'm in an"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2333.2,"endTime":2334.13,"body":"industrial environment."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2334.37,"endTime":2337.04,"body":"Hey, Jason, we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2334.37,"endTime":2337.04,"body":"really appreciate having you on."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2337.73,"endTime":2340.67,"body":"I guess, as we kind of close"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2337.73,"endTime":2340.67,"body":"out, and I think that's great"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2340.67,"endTime":2344.42,"body":"advice for everyone. I guess a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2340.67,"endTime":2344.42,"body":"follow up question is what would"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2344.42,"endTime":2347.03,"body":"you recommend? And how do people"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2344.42,"endTime":2347.03,"body":"get in touch with you? Because I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2347.03,"endTime":2348.89,"body":"think people are gonna find a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2347.03,"endTime":2348.89,"body":"lot of interest in this and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2348.92,"endTime":2352.52,"body":"question, if they've really done"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2348.92,"endTime":2352.52,"body":"enough for this space. What"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2352.52,"endTime":2355.79,"body":"would you what would Dragos like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2352.52,"endTime":2355.79,"body":"tell our listeners the best way"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2355.79,"endTime":2358.52,"body":"to kind of start this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2355.79,"endTime":2358.52,"body":"conversation? Yeah, and kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2358.52,"endTime":2363.17,"body":"frame it pre meeting with you or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2358.52,"endTime":2363.17,"body":"someone? And like what you"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2363.0,"endTime":2367.5,"body":"Yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2363.0,"endTime":2367.5,"body":"obviously www.dragos.com. Not"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2363.17,"endTime":2363.89,"body":"recommend?"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2367.5,"endTime":2369.45,"body":"only from the perspective of"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2367.5,"endTime":2369.45,"body":"what we have on our website, but"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2369.45,"endTime":2372.6,"body":"we have a lot of free material"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2369.45,"endTime":2372.6,"body":"that we give to the community."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2372.72,"endTime":2376.26,"body":"The ICS community is very small"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2372.72,"endTime":2376.26,"body":"compared to IP security. So we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2376.26,"endTime":2378.72,"body":"view it as a community effort to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2376.26,"endTime":2378.72,"body":"be able to provide education"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2378.72,"endTime":2381.66,"body":"where we can, and part of that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2378.72,"endTime":2381.66,"body":"is actually every year on"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2381.66,"endTime":2384.81,"body":"November 5, no matter what day"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2381.66,"endTime":2384.81,"body":"of the year that fifth lands on,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2384.81,"endTime":2387.63,"body":"it could be a Sunday or"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2384.81,"endTime":2387.63,"body":"Saturday, we host the Dragos"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2387.63,"endTime":2390.96,"body":"Industrial Security Conference,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2387.63,"endTime":2390.96,"body":"DISC. And it's free for asset"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2390.96,"endTime":2394.05,"body":"owners in the industrial space."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2390.96,"endTime":2394.05,"body":"So if you don't know where to"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2394.05,"endTime":2397.62,"body":"start, start with dragos.com. If"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2394.05,"endTime":2397.62,"body":"you want to get deeper into it,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2397.62,"endTime":2400.32,"body":"we've got a free conference that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2397.62,"endTime":2400.32,"body":"we leverage for everybody to be"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2400.32,"endTime":2402.84,"body":"able to attend and just be able"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2400.32,"endTime":2402.84,"body":"to learn a little bit more,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2402.84,"endTime":2404.97,"body":"you'll be able to hear from us"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2402.84,"endTime":2404.97,"body":"on the research that we do,"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2405.09,"endTime":2407.1,"body":"understanding how it is that we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2405.09,"endTime":2407.1,"body":"can leverage things like"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2407.1,"endTime":2409.05,"body":"detection, or like the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2407.1,"endTime":2409.05,"body":"professional services or"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2409.05,"endTime":2411.57,"body":"incidents that we've dealt with."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2409.05,"endTime":2411.57,"body":"And another thing that's really"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2411.57,"endTime":2414.72,"body":"valuable on our website is the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2411.57,"endTime":2414.72,"body":"year in review. We've been doing"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2414.72,"endTime":2417.63,"body":"a year in review every single"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2414.72,"endTime":2417.63,"body":"year since Dragos has been a"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2417.63,"endTime":2420.81,"body":"company, and that year in review"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2417.63,"endTime":2420.81,"body":"provides you sort of this look"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2420.81,"endTime":2423.36,"body":"back as to the top"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2420.81,"endTime":2423.36,"body":"vulnerabilities, the top threat"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2423.36,"endTime":2426.39,"body":"actors, the top incidents that"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2423.36,"endTime":2426.39,"body":"we've seen, and that should"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2426.39,"endTime":2429.21,"body":"really, hopefully get people the"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2426.39,"endTime":2429.21,"body":"right questions that they may"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2429.21,"endTime":2432.42,"body":"need to be able to ask their"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2429.21,"endTime":2432.42,"body":"organization. So the hub is"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2432.42,"endTime":2434.94,"body":"Dragos.com, but there's so many"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2432.42,"endTime":2434.94,"body":"avenues that you could pick from"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2434.94,"endTime":2437.55,"body":"from there. I just recommend"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2434.94,"endTime":2437.55,"body":"maybe starting with looking at"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2437.55,"endTime":2440.25,"body":"DISC, looking at our free"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2437.55,"endTime":2440.25,"body":"webinars, and looking at what we"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2440.25,"endTime":2441.09,"body":"do in year in review."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2441.36,"endTime":2442.98,"body":"Yeah. And we'll,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2441.36,"endTime":2442.98,"body":"we'll link these in the show"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2442.98,"endTime":2444.63,"body":"notes so that if you're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2442.98,"endTime":2444.63,"body":"listening to this while you're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2444.63,"endTime":2447.15,"body":"driving, and you want these"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2444.63,"endTime":2447.15,"body":"later, look in the show notes,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2447.45,"endTime":2450.42,"body":"you can also reach out to us at"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2447.45,"endTime":2450.42,"body":"Opkalla. We partner with Dragos"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2450.42,"endTime":2453.06,"body":"and we're big fans of what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2450.42,"endTime":2453.06,"body":"they're doing in the space."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2453.3,"endTime":2455.91,"body":"Jason, this has been great. I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2453.3,"endTime":2455.91,"body":"think it's a really interesting,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2455.91,"endTime":2458.94,"body":"fascinating topic that's going"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2455.91,"endTime":2458.94,"body":"to become more important. I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2458.94,"endTime":2461.28,"body":"think it's going to continue to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2458.94,"endTime":2461.28,"body":"evolve with like you said, the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2461.28,"endTime":2464.94,"body":"cloud adoption, etc. I know"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2461.28,"endTime":2464.94,"body":"Keith and I are excited to talk"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2464.94,"endTime":2467.43,"body":"to our customers and understand"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2464.94,"endTime":2467.43,"body":"a little bit more about what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2467.43,"endTime":2470.22,"body":"they're doing. And I think you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2467.43,"endTime":2470.22,"body":"share a lot of knowledge today"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2470.22,"endTime":2473.25,"body":"that people will find valuable."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2470.22,"endTime":2473.25,"body":"So thank you for joining thank"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2473.25,"endTime":2476.58,"body":"you for being our 13th episode,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2473.25,"endTime":2476.58,"body":"which could be unlucky, but I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2476.58,"endTime":2478.92,"body":"think it's lucky. Keith has"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2476.58,"endTime":2478.92,"body":"Santa Claus on his roof so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2478.92,"endTime":2481.83,"body":"that's it's a lucky day for him."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2478.92,"endTime":2481.83,"body":"Once again, thank you to all the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2481.83,"endTime":2488.61,"body":"listeners. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Thank"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2481.83,"endTime":2488.61,"body":"you to all the listeners out"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2488.61,"endTime":2492.18,"body":"there. Continue to subscribe to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2488.61,"endTime":2492.18,"body":"the podcast and we look forward"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2492.18,"endTime":2493.83,"body":"to the next episode. So have a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2492.18,"endTime":2493.83,"body":"great day."},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2494.13,"endTime":2495.54,"body":"Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Jason Christopher","startTime":2494.13,"endTime":2495.54,"body":"having me. Take care."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2495.78,"endTime":2496.32,"body":"Bye, guys."},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2498.18,"endTime":2500.91,"body":"Thanks for listening."},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2498.18,"endTime":2500.91,"body":"The IT Matters podcast is"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2500.91,"endTime":2503.82,"body":"produced by Opkalla an IT"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2500.91,"endTime":2503.82,"body":"advisory firm that helps"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2503.82,"endTime":2507.63,"body":"businesses navigate the vast and"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2503.82,"endTime":2507.63,"body":"complex IT marketplace. Learn"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2507.63,"endTime":2510.39,"body":"more about Opkalla at"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2507.63,"endTime":2510.39,"body":"opkalla.com."}]}