Speaker 1: Hello, dear friends, this is John Butler
Speaker 1: and you're about to listen to a podcast
Speaker 1: called Running the River.
Speaker 1: This is a new podcast that I have put
Speaker 1: together with my dear friend Dingo Spender.
Speaker 1: He, you may recall, helped me with the last
Speaker 1: podcast I made for my album Home.
Speaker 1: Here again we deconstruct and get under the
Speaker 1: skin and get our hands dirty in the
Speaker 1: substrate soil of what I was envisioning
Speaker 1: for this latest ambient album.
Speaker 1: This is an album I made for wellness
Speaker 1: practitioners and practicers alike to
Speaker 1: defrag and decompress in this very busy,
Speaker 1: fast and quick world, and we hope you enjoy
Speaker 1: as we take you up, down and across the
Speaker 1: river.
Speaker 1: This is Running the River.
Speaker 1: Firstly it was for me.
Speaker 1: Firstly it was for to explore things and
Speaker 1: make things less complex, slow down in BPM
Speaker 1: and slow down sonically and physically, and
Speaker 1: for that it did its job.
Speaker 1: Slow down sonically and physically, you
Speaker 1: know.
Speaker 1: And for that it did its job, you know, as I
Speaker 1: said before, making these 10-minute songs
Speaker 1: and listening back to them, falling asleep,
Speaker 1: listening back to them, it's like okay,
Speaker 1: it's doing what I want it to do, which is
Speaker 1: like really calming the nervous system.
Speaker 1: I'm sure many listeners listening to this
Speaker 1: who practice a form of mindfulness or
Speaker 1: meditation, you will often experience
Speaker 1: falling asleep in the practice because the
Speaker 1: nervous system is like, oh, really cool, oh
Speaker 1: cool, thank you, yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, before we get into any
Speaker 1: kind of transcendental uh, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, uh mindsets, let's talk about my
Speaker 1: sleep debt, my nervous, my service, my
Speaker 1: nervous system recouping, you know.
Speaker 1: So, um, yeah first of all, it was a vehicle
Speaker 1: for that which music always has been a
Speaker 1: vehicle to meet myself, and that was this
Speaker 1: one was very a concerted and like
Speaker 1: concentrated effort to do something in
Speaker 1: particular which was essentially to be part
Speaker 1: of a soundtrack for modalities to heal
Speaker 1: people, to be what somebody listened to
Speaker 1: when they're getting a massage or remedial
Speaker 1: work or Reiki or acupuncture or kinesiology,
Speaker 1: or getting some osteopathy done,
Speaker 1: chiropractic done, doing Shavasana, doing
Speaker 1: your breathing exercise, but also, you know,
Speaker 1: to put your kids to sleep too, to just
Speaker 1: chill out.
Speaker 1: When you're like on a plane and the
Speaker 1: industrial noise of it's really intense and
Speaker 1: you just need to put on the best headphones
Speaker 1: you could possibly get a hold of and get
Speaker 1: rid of that noise, it's like, hey, if
Speaker 1: you're like you know, doing the harvest in
Speaker 1: a bloody big machine, oh yeah, put it on,
Speaker 1: chill out.
Speaker 1: You know anything to bring down, bring down
Speaker 1: the heartbeat a little bit and just bring
Speaker 1: down the nervous system.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's for people who want to do, I
Speaker 1: don't know, sweat ceremonies or something
Speaker 1: to concentrate when you're doing your ice
Speaker 1: bath, or it may be something that you do
Speaker 1: when you're on, you know, a plant medicine
Speaker 1: journey.
Speaker 1: You know all these things were on my mind
Speaker 1: when I was playing, like you know.
Speaker 1: Essentially, you know, a lot of what I do
Speaker 1: instrumentally is, you know, it's kind of
Speaker 1: like journey music and so, yeah, I wanted
Speaker 1: to be able to be a soundtrack to those
Speaker 1: things in an unobtrusive way, if, if
Speaker 1: possible, you know, like to still allow the
Speaker 1: space for the self to be in and not be like,
Speaker 1: hey, look at me, over here I'm doing this
Speaker 1: clever thing on guitar and, oh, I said that
Speaker 1: awesome prose and well, and we did this
Speaker 1: cool thing with a time signature and then,
Speaker 1: surprise, you know, it was like the
Speaker 1: opposite of all that.
Speaker 1: Not that I make music that way, but we do.
Speaker 1: Hey, we could like drop it for four bars
Speaker 1: and then we'll bring all the instruments
Speaker 1: back and then, you know, but it would be
Speaker 1: like 6-8 instead of 4-4, but we'll play the
Speaker 1: 6-8 over the 4-4.
Speaker 1: So it's not really like none of that.
Speaker 1: So, and thank you, yeah, for just that
Speaker 1: alone, just like Not doing that.
Speaker 2: Making that choice not to do that.
Speaker 2: I mean, we do love it when you do that as
Speaker 2: well.
Speaker 2: So just for taking a risk here.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Going somewhere new.
Speaker 1: You know, for palliative care wards, for,
Speaker 1: yeah, just anywhere where it could just
Speaker 1: breathe a bit of sonic soothing.
Speaker 1: You know, that's who I made it for.
Speaker 1: And that's why you know it is pretty water
Speaker 1: go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, anything from putting your kids the
Speaker 1: kids to bed, get a massage or taking a
Speaker 1: magic mushroom trip.
Speaker 1: Yes, it is actually for any and all the
Speaker 1: above.
Speaker 2: It depending on how it suits you, and
Speaker 2: that's all the above is a pretty amazing,
Speaker 2: like potential experiment putting kids to
Speaker 2: bed on munging mushrooms.
Speaker 2: What else was the third one, getting a
Speaker 2: massage.
Speaker 2: Getting a massage like yes that sounds good.
Speaker 1: I think it's.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe not all at once, but there's
Speaker 1: an order like put the kids to bed.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1: I mean, for me it was.
Speaker 1: I was just using ambient music as a tool,
Speaker 1: as I said, to get over literally the
Speaker 1: industrial noise of the city, but also
Speaker 1: sometimes I'm using it because I need to
Speaker 1: actually work and I'm working in a loud
Speaker 1: environment.
Speaker 1: I'm overseas somewhere, I'm at a cafe, I'm
Speaker 1: at somewhere that has decent internet, I'm
Speaker 1: backstage, there's people talking.
Speaker 1: It's a workplace and the way my attention
Speaker 1: works.
Speaker 1: If somebody's nearby and talking a little
Speaker 1: too loud and they're saying something
Speaker 1: that's semi kind of audible, my mind will
Speaker 1: just like I don't want to listen to you.
Speaker 1: I'm meant to be doing this email, but I'm
Speaker 1: like ah, yeah, um you know it's music for
Speaker 1: that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's music to calmly work to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and music you know I can't listen to
Speaker 1: like very busy music and and work.
Speaker 1: I'm like sick.
Speaker 1: I'm just like jamming with timberland or
Speaker 1: pharrell.
Speaker 1: I'm like what am I typing?
Speaker 1: Oh, I can't even understand what I'm typing.
Speaker 1: I've like this I mean there's no auto
Speaker 1: correct on that could possibly work out
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 1: So music for all of that, you know, all of
Speaker 1: that kind of just space.
Speaker 1: I feel fried by the world at times, just
Speaker 1: absolutely fried by it, and that's like
Speaker 1: from my privileged position you know um
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, I think the nature of the job is
Speaker 1: done a bit of extra work on the nervous
Speaker 1: system, you know yeah yeah, just being on
Speaker 1: stage every night, having to flip that
Speaker 1: switch and with my, my chest cavity open to
Speaker 1: show everybody my beating heart to a bunch
Speaker 1: of people who I don't know the the nature
Speaker 1: of how it seems to be.
Speaker 1: In this world of social media it's so much
Speaker 1: easier to be mean than to be kind and what
Speaker 1: that's doing to like people's sense of
Speaker 1: safety in the world and just like you know
Speaker 1: that that's just lurking in the background
Speaker 1: at all times, the phone that's on at all
Speaker 1: times, all those things like the phone
Speaker 1: being on at all times.
Speaker 1: I better keep my phone on me.
Speaker 1: Something might happen that's right.
Speaker 1: Something might need.
Speaker 1: That wasn't around 30 years ago.
Speaker 1: That was that did not exist.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like you found out later they
Speaker 1: left a message, yeah, and he was just like
Speaker 1: shit.
Speaker 1: So I just found out.
Speaker 1: Are you okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah, nine times out of ten they were yeah.
Speaker 1: But now we have this thing that we carry in
Speaker 1: our pocket that's connected to the whole
Speaker 1: world, uh, and, and behind it all, there's
Speaker 1: for me, there's this looming uh, what what
Speaker 1: if somebody dies?
Speaker 1: Essentially, what if somebody gets
Speaker 1: catastrophically hurt and they need to get
Speaker 1: a hold of you right now?
Speaker 1: That's like the why you carry it.
Speaker 1: That's embedded in the hardware of our
Speaker 1: minds and that fries the fuck out of people,
Speaker 1: yeah, not to mention the propensity,
Speaker 1: through the mediums, to just like fucking
Speaker 1: be a dick, to say things you'd never say
Speaker 1: out in nature to people in front of them,
Speaker 1: yeah, or in a room of people.
Speaker 2: Like you just couldn't say that without
Speaker 2: being attacked or like shut down by someone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the propensity to just not be nice,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I think that's all those things
Speaker 1: apart from what's happening.
Speaker 1: God everywhere you know, everywhere.
Speaker 1: I mean, whether it's what's happening in
Speaker 1: the Middle East right now, whether it's
Speaker 1: what's happening in the middle east right
Speaker 1: now heartbreaking, wrenching, soul tearing,
Speaker 1: whack, social, like the cognitive
Speaker 1: dissonance of just watching and not you
Speaker 1: know, uh, or the climate, you know thing
Speaker 1: that's constantly unfolding, or ukraine, or
Speaker 1: the conga, or the you know the mineral
Speaker 1: sands that we're all part of, that we're
Speaker 1: using right now to make this the absolute
Speaker 1: irony and hypocrisy of what it means to be
Speaker 1: a human in the world and all that static.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to make something that felt
Speaker 1: good to listen to, that was just maybe in
Speaker 1: the opposite direction from the 30-second
Speaker 1: TikTok, 30-second attention span and
Speaker 1: believe me, I scroll.
Speaker 1: There's great things I see online.
Speaker 1: I think we're doing amazing things.
Speaker 1: You know, it depends on where we want to
Speaker 1: look, what we choose to focus on.
Speaker 1: Whatever you put your wood, whatever fire
Speaker 1: you put your wood on, that fire will get
Speaker 1: bigger.
Speaker 1: I do know that, but I need that little bit
Speaker 1: of like space from it all, and so if I'm
Speaker 1: going to interact with this device that is
Speaker 1: extremely has as much potential for good as
Speaker 1: it does bad.
Speaker 1: I'm going to make sure there's a playlist
Speaker 1: somewhere that might just help me for a
Speaker 1: second.
Speaker 1: Give me a little bit of scaffolding to just
Speaker 1: breathe, literally just breathe.
Speaker 1: See if we can actually breathe into our
Speaker 1: belly, into our upper lungs, into our
Speaker 1: thoracics.
Speaker 1: Hold breathe out, hold breathe in.
Speaker 1: See if you can do that five times without
Speaker 1: going.
Speaker 1: Oh, I actually have to do something or
Speaker 1: check something on your phone or
Speaker 1: something's happening, like.
Speaker 1: If you can do that five times without going,
Speaker 1: oh, I actually have to do something, or
Speaker 1: check something on your phone or
Speaker 1: something's happening Like, can I just do
Speaker 1: that five times?
Speaker 1: Maybe, yeah, let alone anything else.
Speaker 1: Can I just do that five?
Speaker 1: And if a bit of music can help with that,
Speaker 1: that's where I want to live.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah so I think you must have
Speaker 2: just been just finished the recording you
Speaker 2: hadn't mixed the album yet and we had a
Speaker 2: chat I can't remember.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you rang me out of the blue and I was
Speaker 2: like what's going on?
Speaker 2: You're like I've just recorded this thing
Speaker 2: and I'm I'm looking into ways of delivering
Speaker 2: it, because I've had a few people around me
Speaker 2: talk about that this could actually be
Speaker 2: delivered in like an app, skinned in an app
Speaker 2: where it could be.
Speaker 2: People could choose the, the blend of the
Speaker 2: certain elements, yeah, um, and change the
Speaker 2: volume of them or the pitch of them or the
Speaker 2: duration of them, or kind of customize, to
Speaker 2: you know, make it a more practical way of
Speaker 2: using music, as, as we're all starting to
Speaker 2: get aware of, like a lot of apps allow you
Speaker 2: to do some pretty cool stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, customize, customizable sound and
Speaker 2: experiences.
Speaker 2: So how did that end up going?
Speaker 2: Like, where did where did you get?
Speaker 2: I mean?
Speaker 1: I actually the.
Speaker 1: The idea was actually birthed by um, a crew
Speaker 1: member who was like you should make this
Speaker 1: into an app.
Speaker 1: That I, you know, I was telling about the
Speaker 1: ambient, you should make it into an app.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh really, yeah, I mean oh
Speaker 1: yeah, and.
Speaker 1: And then, you know, he planted that seed
Speaker 1: and then I went away and kind of came up
Speaker 1: with this idea of like nothing it's not,
Speaker 1: it's not a new idea.
Speaker 1: But the idea was basically break you know,
Speaker 1: this album up into like four tracks max and
Speaker 1: that you could control those.
Speaker 1: You know the guitars.
Speaker 1: The guitars would be one thing, the
Speaker 1: heartbeat beat guitar would be another
Speaker 1: thing, the I don't know another element,
Speaker 1: the harmonic bed or whatever, could be
Speaker 1: another track.
Speaker 1: And then the idea was you could slow it
Speaker 1: down and you could reverse things and you
Speaker 1: could mute things, because one of my
Speaker 1: favorite things is slow down backwards
Speaker 1: guitar.
Speaker 1: It's by far one of my favorite things is
Speaker 1: slowed down backwards guitar.
Speaker 1: It's like by far one of my favorite things
Speaker 1: in the world.
Speaker 1: So if I could have that with the sun
Speaker 1: reflecting sun reflection on the tree
Speaker 1: canopy.
Speaker 1: That's my form of a good time, and so that
Speaker 1: was the idea.
Speaker 1: It was like creating this mini kind of
Speaker 1: garage band thing that you could, you know,
Speaker 1: and that it would have like a visual
Speaker 1: wallpaper to it.
Speaker 1: And we looked into it and they said, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is a great idea.
Speaker 1: It's probably going to cost, you know, over
Speaker 1: $100,000 to make.
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, cool, well, I wasn't
Speaker 1: looking to make any money really off the
Speaker 1: app, I just wanted the app to be something
Speaker 1: Just help customize and curate their own
Speaker 1: kind of practice, wellness practice.
Speaker 1: And that was inspired kind of by, you know,
Speaker 1: and this is not sponsored by Sleepstream,
Speaker 1: but Sleepstream was an app I was using to
Speaker 1: help me sleep or meditate with, and there
Speaker 1: are all these different things, like you
Speaker 1: know, the different backgrounds.
Speaker 1: You could have 10-minute, you know,
Speaker 1: 20-minute sessions from stress to relax,
Speaker 1: stress to energize.
Speaker 1: You had ones for attention stuff, anxiety
Speaker 1: stuff, meditation, sleep.
Speaker 1: You know you could put these different
Speaker 1: backgrounds and, you know, change the
Speaker 1: pitches and it was customized.
Speaker 1: I didn't like that and so I thought, oh, I
Speaker 1: can do that with the music.
Speaker 1: It just couldn't.
Speaker 1: It could happen.
Speaker 1: It was just very work intensive and not
Speaker 1: something I really wanted to invest in.
Speaker 1: I think if I was maybe a little bit more
Speaker 1: lucrative, I could just put money into
Speaker 1: something that didn't show any kind of
Speaker 1: return and didn't have to worry about being
Speaker 1: at all sustainable.
Speaker 1: Then maybe I would have.
Speaker 1: But, um, so the next idea was cool, let's,
Speaker 1: let's, you know, let's, make a visual
Speaker 1: component to it that we can put on youtube
Speaker 1: that can be kind of played in a playlist,
Speaker 1: either a playlist of the album or
Speaker 1: playlisted to other playlists, you know,
Speaker 1: and also just get it off some of the
Speaker 1: streaming surfaces that just are completely
Speaker 1: reaming the music industry, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: and it's just a huge rot and also, at the
Speaker 1: same time, if we're not on them, then we
Speaker 1: just don't have any access to anybody's
Speaker 1: ears, uh, so, like, get onto youtube where
Speaker 1: you might get paid a little bit more, that
Speaker 1: you actually could make this venture pay
Speaker 1: for itself, you know, but also just be
Speaker 1: there.
Speaker 1: It can get onto screens, uh, and be at
Speaker 1: centers, wellness centers, and just have a
Speaker 1: visual component to it.
Speaker 1: But it's actually spawned from wanting to
Speaker 1: be an app first, because I go, you know,
Speaker 1: when I've gone into places, you know,
Speaker 1: there's often, often this big screen on the,
Speaker 1: on the, on the wall and it's usually
Speaker 1: playing some kind of thing with some
Speaker 1: ambient music youtube playlist and I was
Speaker 1: like I want to get into on that, like I
Speaker 1: want, I want some visuals with it, so
Speaker 1: interesting.
Speaker 1: One is just like incense in slow motion.
Speaker 1: I love looking at slow moving things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to go with slow moving music.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just to get like sensory, some
Speaker 1: sensory slowing down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's.
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of why the incense or
Speaker 1: the smudging or the smoking or or the, the
Speaker 1: heartbeat or the rhythm or the clapping or
Speaker 1: the sticks, they are sensory locators and
Speaker 1: indicators that we've been doing for a very
Speaker 1: long time and they do, like, have this,
Speaker 1: like the somewhere in the primordial,
Speaker 1: reptilian or other parts for our nervous
Speaker 1: system that like, oh, yeah, I know what's
Speaker 1: going on here.
Speaker 1: I know what this is yeah, so yeah, the
Speaker 1: visual component was like something I've
Speaker 1: been looking right into.
Speaker 1: Like you know, put the album on and go to
Speaker 1: like fractal kaleidoscopes.
Speaker 1: You know like, okay, that's a little bit
Speaker 1: techno, that one's kind of cool.
Speaker 1: Oh, after a while, when you watch, it
Speaker 1: starts really clocking into the music and
Speaker 1: like going, this is sick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it will seem super cliched and a
Speaker 1: little bit psychedelic, but actually
Speaker 1: watching, watching some of those ancient
Speaker 1: shapes with music, is extremely therapeutic
Speaker 1: and calming.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, mm the why and the who,
Speaker 1: for never had like cool, I hope this is.
Speaker 1: Like, I think, with a lot of the things
Speaker 1: you're like I hope this is successful, or
Speaker 1: like I hope it can get played somewhere.
Speaker 1: I mean, or I mean, yeah, I hope this is
Speaker 1: successful, I hope it gets played somewhere
Speaker 1: somewhere.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I hope this is successful, I
Speaker 1: hope it gets played somewhere.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is I'm not wanting it.
Speaker 1: I know it's not a money-making venture,
Speaker 1: it's you know.
Speaker 1: It's just I just hope for those who want if
Speaker 1: it makes it into their life in some way.
Speaker 1: Like the songs that have gotten onto my
Speaker 1: playlist, that have come in from other
Speaker 1: playlists have been recommended or whatever,
Speaker 1: like, um, yeah, I love them and I just hope
Speaker 1: that it could kind of be out there in the
Speaker 1: world for them.
Speaker 1: Um, and I, I kind of trust that, as slow as
Speaker 1: the music is and as slow time as I'm, their
Speaker 1: intention is that, slowly but surely, the
Speaker 1: music will find where it needs to go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of going like further into the
Speaker 1: visual thing, like, uh, yeah, there's.
Speaker 1: You know, one of my favorite things in life,
Speaker 1: like one of my utmost favorite things of
Speaker 1: all time, is watching the sun.
Speaker 1: I grew up in river country in Pinjara,
Speaker 1: western Australia, even though it doesn't
Speaker 1: sound like it, but I'm drawn to rivers and
Speaker 1: it's one of the reasons why this album is
Speaker 1: called Running River.
Speaker 1: It's one of the reasons why I've taken the
Speaker 1: album cover is the river I grew up on.
Speaker 1: When my dad moved back to Australia, where
Speaker 1: he's from, after my parents got divorced,
Speaker 1: he was looking for a house for us.
Speaker 1: I said find a place with a river in the
Speaker 1: backyard.
Speaker 1: Jokingly serious, I was nine, 10 years old.
Speaker 1: He actually found a place in Pinjarra,
Speaker 1: western Australia, on the river, because it
Speaker 1: was the cheapest place actually he could
Speaker 1: afford, you know.
Speaker 1: And I grew up on that river.
Speaker 1: And I grew up on that river and 20 years
Speaker 1: later found out that my
Speaker 1: great-great-grandfather was buried in an
Speaker 1: unmarked grave in that town and that we
Speaker 1: were like salmon swimming back upstream to
Speaker 1: that river.
Speaker 1: And but my favorite thing, having grown up
Speaker 1: on that river and living now on Wujudapbila,
Speaker 1: which is the Margaret River, is the sun
Speaker 1: hitting the water surface and reflecting
Speaker 1: onto trees that are overhanging the billows
Speaker 1: and the water holes in the rivers, and that
Speaker 1: shimmering kind of thing that happens in
Speaker 1: the canopy of trees is my favorite thing.
Speaker 1: And so I was like I need, I want and I
Speaker 1: watch it, and it's like I.
Speaker 1: And so I was like I need, I want and I
Speaker 1: watch it, and it's like I'm giving having
Speaker 1: an eye massage, but I'm also like it's
Speaker 1: going into whatever nervous system stuff
Speaker 1: and just like it's the absolute opposite
Speaker 1: from doom scrolling.
Speaker 1: It's the opposite for me.
Speaker 1: And so I was like I want this music that,
Speaker 1: hopefully, is the opposite to a jackhammer,
Speaker 1: yeah, to be.
Speaker 1: I want it to be coupled with this visual
Speaker 1: that's the opposite to doom scrolling and
Speaker 1: to ultraviolence and staccato angular
Speaker 1: visuals.
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, we kind of made this kind of
Speaker 1: I wanted every song to have a video, which
Speaker 1: never really happens, but so they could be
Speaker 1: a part of a playlist at a center or a
Speaker 1: practitioner's residence, where they may
Speaker 1: have a screen in the waiting room or
Speaker 1: something, and that you can have the album
Speaker 1: and this visual taking place at the same
Speaker 1: time and so explain all kinds of different
Speaker 1: organic kind of shapes and visuals that can
Speaker 1: be coupled with the music that you can kind
Speaker 1: of stare at and and just especially as I,
Speaker 1: actually has a little bit of a medium hack
Speaker 1: as well, like we're so you know, generally
Speaker 1: speaking, we are.
Speaker 1: So our lives are intertwined with screens
Speaker 1: everywhere and for me it's like the visual
Speaker 1: component is obviously, yeah, yeah, to give
Speaker 1: you a visual healing and a sensory healing,
Speaker 1: but it's also like you're going to be
Speaker 1: looking at this puppy.
Speaker 1: Anyways, I bet I want to see, I'll
Speaker 1: infiltrate it, see if I can infiltrate this
Speaker 1: thing with a bit of your love of music and
Speaker 1: your love of looking at things you know,
Speaker 1: and and see if I can couple them together
Speaker 1: and so, yeah, that's kind of how that whole
Speaker 1: visual thing has kind of come about and, um,
Speaker 1: it's been, it's been super fun to watch.
Speaker 1: I think there's one whole video that's just
Speaker 1: like, uh, acrylic and oil paints being
Speaker 1: mixed together slowly and how they respond
Speaker 1: to each other.
Speaker 2: And just you know all kinds of you know
Speaker 2: time it sort of feels to me also, it's like
Speaker 2: a um, when I put on ambient music and I'm
Speaker 2: imagining when I put on this, it's like
Speaker 2: lighting a stick of incense in your house.
Speaker 2: And you know, when you light that stick of
Speaker 2: incense it's like you watch that smoke kind
Speaker 2: of slowly curl up into the air and then
Speaker 2: suddenly it's created a new space from what
Speaker 2: was it was before, which was a house.
Speaker 2: Suddenly it's like, oh, it feels like it's
Speaker 2: got a smell and there's something
Speaker 2: ceremonial happening or there's something I
Speaker 2: can pause now.
Speaker 2: So it's sort of like yeah, it's like
Speaker 2: lighting a musical stick of incense or the
Speaker 2: house, and it just kind of creates this
Speaker 2: like I'm still in my living room, where I'm
Speaker 2: still in my living room where I was just
Speaker 2: having that really stressy phone call with
Speaker 2: my landlord, but now I'm gonna lie a stick
Speaker 2: of incense musically and for the next 30
Speaker 2: minutes yeah it's changed everything yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah, totally yeah.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you need to like spray some
Speaker 1: hardcore air freshener because, yeah, the
Speaker 1: place is reeking, or you need to like you
Speaker 1: know you need sorry, I have to use some
Speaker 1: pretty gnarly something, and every once in
Speaker 1: a while you need to just to have a little,
Speaker 1: a little bit of a little incense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, that's right, it's a reminder,
Speaker 2: yeah, the little reminders, and you're
Speaker 2: welcome for me offering you a right, you
Speaker 2: know, heading into a whole new range of
Speaker 2: offerings, potentially john butler incense
Speaker 2: yeah, it's funny like what I.
Speaker 1: It's a good segue um away from you know,
Speaker 1: your nonsensical kind of offering you.