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Unknown: This is the Full Tilt
Podcast with Hatch.

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Okay, here we go. Another
episode of the Full Tilt

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Podcast, and I've got, and
probably maybe the most powerful

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man in wrestling is that is that
you go by that, Rich Bender? No,

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by no means. By no means. No,
this is this is the executive

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director of USA Wrestling, and
talk about somebody that has a

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monster, monster impact on our
sport. This is the guy right

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here. So, Rich, I really
appreciate your time here, and

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this could be a great
conversation. Well,

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Mike, an honor to be with you
today, and yeah, I just-it's

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not-it's not Rich Bender, by the
way. It's maybe the position has

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some story, not the man.

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Well, like I said, we're going
to get into let's let's pull

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this a little bit closer. Yeah,
let's go and blow your mouth up

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there. Yeah, we're just going to
get into just all things USA

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Wrestling.

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Yeah, let's do it.

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And there we go. Now you got
your radio voice going. There

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you go. Yeah. See, that's this
is all technical errors. Like I

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said, I'm a I'm a wrestler
turned podcaster. So we're

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actually a wrestler a long time
ago, early '90s. But now state

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chairman turned podcaster, I
guess. But wrestler

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at the core.

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That's it right there. So we're
gonna get into things, all all

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things USA wrestling. Obviously,
we're here at Fargo, and you

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know, no better to no no better
person to talk USA wrestling

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with than the executive director
himself. So again, we appreciate

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your time. But we're here at the
largest tournament in the world.

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Is that correct?

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Yeah, I'd say it's. I mean,
there's there's a little

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discussion about that. We we
we've looked into the Guinness

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Book of World Records and
certainly the largest indoor

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wrestling tournament in the
world. There's some, I believe

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it's in Kazakhstan or
Kyrgyzstan, some like massive

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event that has a, you know,
everybody and their brother

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participating in some
tournament. But it's not really

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wrestling. But certainly the the
largest wrestling tournament in

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the world, in our eyes, for
sure.

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What do we get this year for
entries? Oh, we're

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we're we're going to be right
around 8500. Wow. Yeah, another

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record,

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I think.

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Yeah, we're going to be close. I
mean, it's going to depend on

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whether the you know the the
girls weigh in the numbers that

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that are pre registered, and if
they do, I think we're going to

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be really close. If not, we're
going to be within, you know,

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3040, of an all-time record.

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Yeah, yeah. Well, you mentioned
the girls. I mean, just the

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explosion of girls wrestling is
just. I mean, and you've seen it

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from its infancy stages. So, I
mean, kind of go a little bit,

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and let's let's let's go start
on the girls. Yeah. So, I mean,

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it's amazing, and

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you know, funny story. So, in
1988, I started USA Wrestling as

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an intern, and to fulfill my
college curriculum, I had to do

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a paper, and and or an
assignment specifically that was

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a paper, and and I was given the
task of writing a paper on why

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USA Wrestling should fund the
very first women's world team in

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1989 to the World Championships,
so and it was cool to be

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involved at the sport from with
the sport. You know, it's very

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infancy, and and certainly, you
know, I think there's, I mean,

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there's tons of data that would
show you know the growth and the

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unprecedented growth and how
popular it is. But I mean, at

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its core, it's it shouldn't be
surprising in terms of you know

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how how important wrestling is,
and the benefits that wrestling

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brings to to males for 1000s of
years, that that that should be

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the same benefit for women. And
you know early on that became

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really evident to us that as
soon as we could get to scale, I

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mean there were some headwinds
around the development of the

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sport, when when primarily
girls' only opportunities to

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wrestle were against guys or
boys, and certainly there were

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some headwinds there with you
know some foundational people in

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in the in the in the wrestling
movement that didn't didn't

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really agree with that. But once
we were able to get to scale,

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where I mean now girls, there's
you know there'll be a lot of

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girls wrestling here this week
that that really haven't

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wrestled many guys, and you know
you look five years ago that

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wasn't the case, and I think
that was almost like pouring jet

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fuel on the fire when we got to
scale and and you know girls

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could have the experience with
the same benefits that guys have

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and not have to you know mess
with the challenges of you know

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cross gender participation and
you know some religious beliefs

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and you know just some
inequities around you know male

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and female development
physically. So once we got

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there, man, it's been off to the
races and and the sport is you

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know it will continue to grow.
You know, funny story. When we

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when we hired Terry Steiner in
2002, it was a bit of a

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challenge to get him convinced
that he should he should be the

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the women's wrestling coach for
for Team USA. And true story, he

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had called me about applying for
a job and and. I can't remember

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what university it was. He he
was applying for a coaching

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position, and I said, "Well, you
know, I'd be honored to write

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you a letter of recommendation,
but why don't you come to work

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for us? And he said, "Doing
what? And so we talked about the

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women's program, and he was
apprehensive at first, but you

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know, certainly he you know he
he said some pretty profound

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things in the in in the process,
and when we ultimately got

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agreement that he was going to
be our first coach. By the way,

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he said, "Okay, I'll do it, but
I'll give you two years. You

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know, and that was in 2002. So,
yeah, he's been he's been at it

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and become without question the
the number one women's wrestling

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coach on the planet. But you
know, his point was, hey, I

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understand the benefits that
wrestling have have given to

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certainly me and my my twin
brother, and I started thinking

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about my daughter, and and
there's no reason that she

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shouldn't have those same
benefits if she chooses to

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wrestle, and so for him it was
just you know wrestling has this

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this kind of magical impact on
people's lives, and that's

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that's not it's not just because
they're guys, and so I mean

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that's that's that's I think
pretty profound in terms of you

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know the the power of our sport.

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That I mean we know I mean we
both know you know I don't think

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you go very far to talk to
anybody that was a wrestler that

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draws their identity to that,
and whether that's someone that

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was a, you know, Olympic
champion or someone that just

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was impacted by the sport, maybe
at the junior high, high school

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level, and and man, it's pretty
magical and pretty cool, and you

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know, it's awesome to see women
have those same benefits today,

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and you know, really without
restriction, right? And so it's

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it's pretty cool.

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Plus, have a guy like Terry
Stein. So I I was teammates with

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with Terry, and well, obviously
Android back in the early '90s.

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And man, I remember when he when
he took that job. I was like,

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dang! First of all, I was like,
man, how did you say wrestling

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get Terry there? Because I mean,
that's I mean, it was a big

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tire. I mean, he's you know
because he was obviously

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successful on the men's side,
and he was, you know, still, you

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know, I think might have been
still competing maybe a little

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bit, or probably could have, but
I was like, dude, that is huge

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for women's wrestling. Yeah, I
tell you,

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I'll tell you a little more
about that story. So, I mean,

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after you know, and it was, it
was a little bit of a random,

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and I, I mean, I've known known
Terry and Troy for you know most

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of their competitive career, and
you know we we when he when he

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called me for for that job
reference, I mean it just kind

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of it it struck me that man this
guy has the right personality

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right he can bring relevancy to
to the to the position you know

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he can bring credibility and you
know he just if you spend 10

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minutes around Terry Steiner,
he's got a pretty unique

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personality, and obviously, you
know, one of the most fierce

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wrestlers ever, one of them, and
yet has that that side of him

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that just plays really well with
with female female athletes, and

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so we had kind of went back and
forth, and as I said earlier, he

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was pretty resistant to the
idea, and and then I I I

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realized that his wife Jody was
going to have some impact on

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this decision, and and if you've
met Jody Zuger, his his wife,

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you know, big personality cares
deeply about about wrestling and

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the impact that it has on women,
and and so we had kind of, and

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she's around both those guys
when they were training and when

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competing, and there was times
when I was running events, and

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she would call me after, "What
do these guys got to do? I'm so

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frustrated. They they work so
hard, and because obviously, you

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know, both elite wrestlers, but
right, the the water is really

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deep at the highest level of our
our sport and just you know

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we're having a hard time
breaking through. But anyway, so

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I'd known Jody through through
those interactions and and in

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this process I'd kind of hit a
little bit of roadblock with

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Terry and connected with Jody
and we talked a lot about you

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know the opportunity and talked
a lot about Raven even though

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Raven their daughter didn't
wrestle, but like opportunities

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for her and where Terry could
really make a difference, and

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and finally Jody said, you know,
Rich, hey, he's he's taking this

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job, and so I kind of went kind
of dark on Terry a little bit,

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thinking, hey, they'll they're
gonna once she said that to me,

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we got him right, and so Terry,
I I hadn't called him for you

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know a week or so, and he called
me and said, "Hey, did you did

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you go in another direction? And
I said, "No, we didn't go in

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another direction. He goes,
"Well, why didn't heard from

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you? I said, "Well, because your
wife told me you're taking the

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job. So so we got. I mean,
obviously he was all in from day

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one. Yeah. But and that's you
know another reason why Terry

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six Terry's so successful is
that family unit at home. I

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mean, Jody's involved and and
she cares and and man, just like

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I mean, it's so helpful to have
that support system at home and

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you know because it you know
wasn't necessarily popular. A

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lot of people who saw Terry as
an up and coming. D1 coach, and

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you know he's he's he's proven
that it was a good decision.

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Yeah,

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and you know he's had just a
massive impact. I would say is

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probably as consequential a guy
as there is in the world when

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he's wrestling, and yeah, we're
blessed to have him. You know, I

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it's kind of cool to be here in
North Dakota this week because

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he and he and Troy are getting
the the Teddy Roosevelt Award

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later this year, which is the
the award given the highest

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award given to a citizen in
North Dakota by the governor,

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and so we're going to celebrate
that award in in the fall in in

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Bismarck. So I mean he's he's
been being he and Troy both are

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being recognized for for their
impact, and but man, we're

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blessed by by the Steiner family
for sure.

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There's no two more deserving
people there getting that award.

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Those guys are, they. I mean,
again, I was just fortunate

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enough to spend. I think was
about was probably I know two

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years as teammates, another year
or two. You know, was when

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they're second in that club, and
I just they're just they're the

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best. You can't you can't beat
the Steiner, yeah. Just the

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Steiner guys. They are just the
best, and they've got such a

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quirky like like personality,
sense of humor. It's it's so

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funny funny talking about a
sense of humor. So

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you know we travel a ton, right?
And you know I I had a kind of a

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personal philosophy that, and
you know certainly you know we

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we we buy coach class tickets to
go everywhere and you know when

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you travel as much as we do you
you sometimes get upgraded

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yeah yeah

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and you know these complimentary
upgrades and I I have had a kind

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of a personal philosophy that
hey I'm not going to sit up

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front when there's athletes on
board

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yeah

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and you know I don't travel a
lot with the team so it doesn't

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really impact me that much, and
and Terry knew that knows that I

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that I you know done that
before, or that was my

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philosophy. And I we got on a
plane one time with the team,

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and I was you know going to the
back, and Terry was sitting up

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front. He said, "Hey, Steiner,
what the heck? What do you mean?

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He goes, "Hey, boss, I'm leading
from the front on this one. So,

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but man, just I mean, and that
that's that's I mean, Terry

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Steiner is this selfless of of
coach that that I've ever been

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around in my life, and you know,
obviously, we all know in this

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sport to be successful like he
was as a as an athlete, you got

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to be really selfish, and to
make that transition to that

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selflessness, which, and I, you
know, I, I think it's true. I

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mean, it's probably even more
under the magnifying glass with

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our women's team

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in

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terms of, you know, it's, it's,
it's, they're, you know,

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sometimes wired a little
differently in terms of, you

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know, trust plays a big factor,
certainly in in coaching

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anybody, male or or female, but
you know Terry has developed an

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incredible level of trust with
our team and in the program, and

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I think that's been you know a
part of reason he's been so

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successful.

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Now these national team coaches,
because obviously you got him on

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the get Terry on the on the
women's side, and then you got

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Bill on the men's side. It's
kind of a unique role. I mean,

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just because of the RTCs and
just the different landscape

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that we have here in the United
States, far as from a

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development standpoint, it's
almost like when you're looking

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for somebody to fill that
position, they've got to be not

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only obviously you know
incredibly competent in

238
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wrestling and techniques and
tactics and stuff, but really,

239
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almost more so, just competent
with people, yeah, and just

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managing a bunch of different,
you know, development that goes

241
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on out around the country.

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And those jobs have really
evolved over the last 40 years.

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You know, where I mean, it used
to be that if it wasn't for what

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USA Wrestling was doing, or the
USWF or the AAU before that, our

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our team USA athletes weren't
really getting anything. Yeah.

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So they would come to Colorado
Springs for like conditioning

247
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and training, and camps would be
a month long. And we talking to

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you know Bruce Baumgart about
that, or we had a camp this

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recently. It was three days, and
which you know back in the day

250
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that was I mean, it was the only
place that athletes at the very

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highest level could get that
kind of coaching and training.

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More importantly, and it's it's
evolved to where you know with

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regional training centers now, I
mean there are legit

254
00:14:13,830 --> 00:14:17,310
opportunities in countless
locations around this country to

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00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,800
get the very best training
partners, the very best

256
00:14:19,830 --> 00:14:23,990
coaching, and the very best
facilities and support that you

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know make the roles a little bit
different for for actually all

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three of the coaches have have
different roles. Terry, I would

259
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say of the three is you know
more I guess connectedness you

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know on a on a daily basis in
terms of more girls or women in

261
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:45,790
Colorado Springs than than men's
freestyle and you know Greco.

262
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It's there's it's similar to the
to the to the women's program

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where there's a higher
concentration of our of our

264
00:14:52,030 --> 00:14:56,170
number one or elite athletes
there. But yeah, these all three

265
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of these coaches have had to
adapt, right? And I mean

266
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relationships. Are so so
critical, and it's you know

267
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obviously more difficult to
build trust, more difficult to

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build those legitimate
relationships when you're not

269
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seeing them a lot, seeing them a
lot, and so when you do have

270
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those opportunities to be around
our elite athletes, you can't

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miss right. You got you got to
be on your A game, and we're

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just like as I said, we're
blessed by Terry. We're also

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blessed, but to have a coaching
staff in our Greco program, led

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00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,370
by Herb House and and Bill
Zadick, who you know both bring,

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well, all three bring incredibly
high levels of of integrity to

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to the to the job, and you know
you just it's nuanced. You have

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to, I mean, you have to. You
can't treat all the athletes the

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same just because they're in
different scenarios and need

279
00:15:44,410 --> 00:15:47,650
different things from from USA
Wrestling, and you know. But

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with the you know the incredible
impact that regional training

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centers have had on on our elite
program, our coaches have had to

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adapt to work with those, and
you know, in a lot of ways,

283
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there's a lot of truth to this
idea of hey, it's amazing what

284
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you can do, and nobody cares
about who gets the credit.

285
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Yeah, and that's where

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00:16:07,379 --> 00:16:10,439
I mean, Bill and all three of
our, and actually all of our

287
00:16:10,469 --> 00:16:14,759
national coaches have had to be
humble around the idea that hey,

288
00:16:14,939 --> 00:16:18,269
it's you know, there's other
people that are having a big

289
00:16:18,509 --> 00:16:23,749
impact, and you know, we we go
out of our way to try to not be

290
00:16:23,869 --> 00:16:27,169
in the spotlight. That's why
we're we're so committed to

291
00:16:27,409 --> 00:16:30,709
these personal coaches and our
coaches that are working with

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00:16:30,829 --> 00:16:36,469
athletes on a daily basis to be
involved and recognize when you

293
00:16:36,499 --> 00:16:37,549
know when success happens.

294
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,380
Yeah, fantastic. Getting back to
the women's side of it. What was

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00:16:41,380 --> 00:16:44,260
the first year that the women's
was in the Olympics? Was it oh

296
00:16:44,350 --> 00:16:46,000
40404? What was

297
00:16:47,740 --> 00:16:48,220
the Athens?

298
00:16:48,340 --> 00:16:52,450
Yeah, Athens. What was the what
was was there was there a ton of

299
00:16:52,450 --> 00:16:54,550
difficulties and a ton of
pushback as far as getting the

300
00:16:54,670 --> 00:16:56,230
women's wrestling into the
Olympics? Yeah,

301
00:16:56,530 --> 00:16:57,970
I mean I don't know. I mean

302
00:16:58,180 --> 00:17:00,780
because it wasn't good to see
Olympics and now it's a big

303
00:17:00,930 --> 00:17:02,130
yeah. So so early

304
00:17:02,460 --> 00:17:05,580
on, we had a pretty unique
strategy around how we're going

305
00:17:05,580 --> 00:17:08,910
to develop this this sport. And
right as I said earlier, I mean,

306
00:17:09,360 --> 00:17:12,690
men have been at this for 1000s
of years, and women since '04.

307
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,500
Right. And I mean, obviously, we
talked about it. You know, early

308
00:17:17,430 --> 00:17:20,640
'90s, late '80s, early '90s,
where you know there were there

309
00:17:20,730 --> 00:17:23,840
were world championships for for
women, but we had a pretty

310
00:17:23,900 --> 00:17:27,170
unique approach to the
development. Thinking that the

311
00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:30,560
most important thing that we
could do was to secure the

312
00:17:30,620 --> 00:17:33,470
Olympic designation, because
that would give us the

313
00:17:33,470 --> 00:17:37,010
credibility that we would need
to build the sport from from the

314
00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:42,340
bottom up. That if we had this
kind of you know castle on a

315
00:17:42,430 --> 00:17:46,480
hill, or this this tower on a
hill that you know women and and

316
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:51,580
females, and and those in
Russley could could chase that

317
00:17:51,610 --> 00:17:55,240
we could build an infrastructure
from from from the bottom up. So

318
00:17:55,870 --> 00:17:58,240
you know that's why you know
with once we had the Olympic

319
00:17:58,270 --> 00:18:02,190
designation before we had the
NCA designation, or even high

320
00:18:02,370 --> 00:18:08,010
school recognition of women as a
standalone sport in in high

321
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,430
schools. So I mean that was our
approach, and you know that

322
00:18:11,850 --> 00:18:16,410
there there there certainly
there was early on headwinds,

323
00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:21,020
and you know when it came to not
everybody you know was

324
00:18:21,140 --> 00:18:25,280
comfortable with it, like you
know, and I, I mean, I was

325
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,760
blessed because early on I saw,
I mean, that hey, this this is

326
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,760
this is the right thing to do,
right? It's like fighting to

327
00:18:31,820 --> 00:18:34,100
stay stay on the Olympic program
is the right thing to do. You're

328
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,250
not trying to convince somebody
that's not, you know, some

329
00:18:37,850 --> 00:18:40,870
convince someone of something
that's not not the right thing,

330
00:18:41,020 --> 00:18:43,870
and it was the right thing to
do. So we had that kind of as a

331
00:18:43,990 --> 00:18:48,040
motivation, and you know, as I
said also earlier, that once we

332
00:18:48,190 --> 00:18:50,950
could get to scale, because I
think the biggest headwind was,

333
00:18:51,670 --> 00:18:55,120
my God, my son's not wrestling a
girl, or you know, my son got

334
00:18:55,180 --> 00:18:57,730
beat by a girl, and he's you
know, he's he's life's over,

335
00:18:57,970 --> 00:18:59,890
yeah, yeah, and but man, and so
that's

336
00:18:59,979 --> 00:19:01,439
very real though, yeah, and so I

337
00:19:01,530 --> 00:19:06,660
think once we we got there, and
then you know, with the input of

338
00:19:07,230 --> 00:19:11,430
folks like Terry Steiner, I
mean, the the technical level of

339
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,660
women's wrestling just went, I
mean, just off the charts. Yeah,

340
00:19:16,380 --> 00:19:18,780
you know, you you know, people
would always criticize lots, and

341
00:19:18,810 --> 00:19:21,350
that's like junior high
wrestling, and man, I tell you

342
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,350
right now, you you you watch
this sport even this weekend.

343
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,580
You watch the the women's
tournament this weekend. There

344
00:19:28,670 --> 00:19:33,020
are some incredibly technical
wrestlers in in the pipeline,

345
00:19:34,220 --> 00:19:36,290
and women's wrestling. The
technical level in women's

346
00:19:36,380 --> 00:19:39,830
wrestling is you know grown just
as fast as their participation

347
00:19:39,860 --> 00:19:40,190
has. Oh,

348
00:19:40,190 --> 00:19:42,490
because I mean now I mean
because just I mean we'll get

349
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,280
into like all the clubs and NIL
stuff and all that. We've

350
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,860
already touched on RTCs a little
bit, but this is kind of one of

351
00:19:47,860 --> 00:19:50,980
the things that I see that's
help really helping the

352
00:19:50,980 --> 00:19:55,180
development as well now these
days. Is now the way that the

353
00:19:55,180 --> 00:19:57,430
that this high school and middle
school system and the Pee Wee

354
00:19:57,550 --> 00:20:00,540
system is work. It's it's
totally changing now. Before it

355
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,540
used to be a deal where when I
was wrestling, you'd have a pee

356
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,090
wee program, and then that would
feed your middle school program,

357
00:20:06,090 --> 00:20:07,590
and then that would feed your
high school program. Now I

358
00:20:07,620 --> 00:20:09,720
didn't like that anymore. Now
you start wrestling at your

359
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:11,940
little beater program, and then
you're gonna go find one of

360
00:20:11,940 --> 00:20:14,880
these clubs that's coached by a
couple time national champ or a

361
00:20:14,940 --> 00:20:17,160
world champ. I mean, Burl's got
a club. Everybody's got a club

362
00:20:17,220 --> 00:20:19,530
now because they know that
there's good money in it. And

363
00:20:19,530 --> 00:20:21,680
these guys aren't just coaching
boys now; they're coaching

364
00:20:21,710 --> 00:20:21,980
girls.

365
00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:22,460
Yeah, Mikey.

366
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,010
These girls, man, they are
getting right out the jump. They

367
00:20:25,070 --> 00:20:26,900
are getting coached up by the
best of the best.

368
00:20:27,020 --> 00:20:30,560
And you're hitting on something
that that you know has changed

369
00:20:30,590 --> 00:20:32,870
in the sport of wrestling. I
mean, it used to be, you know,

370
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:37,580
decades ago, like taboo for
someone to to make a profit on

371
00:20:37,670 --> 00:20:39,980
wrestling. Like this guy's
coaching wrestling, getting paid

372
00:20:40,010 --> 00:20:43,960
for exactly. And and it's I mean
that has been such a monumental

373
00:20:44,290 --> 00:20:48,250
positive shift for our sport
that there is legit businesses

374
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:53,800
you know and legit resources
being you know harvested or

375
00:20:53,860 --> 00:20:57,160
accumulated from the sport that
ultimately is being invested

376
00:20:57,250 --> 00:21:01,080
back in. It's not dissimilar to
when we you know first did some

377
00:21:01,170 --> 00:21:04,590
of our early on, you know,
digital broadcasts where people

378
00:21:04,620 --> 00:21:07,320
had to pay. Where the calls that
I would get, like you are the

379
00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:11,820
Antichrist, you know, wrestling
you cannot pay to watch

380
00:21:11,970 --> 00:21:13,020
wrestling that pull.

381
00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:13,200
Yep,

382
00:21:13,710 --> 00:21:17,460
and and so you know the
professionalization of our sport

383
00:21:17,610 --> 00:21:22,460
has made a massive impact there
because now, I mean, it's. I

384
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,880
mean, I I I I say this probably
more frequently than I should. I

385
00:21:25,970 --> 00:21:28,370
really feel like we're on the
precipice precipice of the

386
00:21:28,460 --> 00:21:31,700
golden age of our sport. I
agree. From a lot of you know

387
00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:35,420
aspects, from a business aspect
to a technical advancement

388
00:21:35,690 --> 00:21:40,660
aspect to you know the access
that wrestlers now have to like

389
00:21:40,690 --> 00:21:43,000
I said, the very best coaches,
the very best training partners,

390
00:21:43,090 --> 00:21:46,840
the very best facilities is, you
know, I I think the the best

391
00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:47,770
years are ahead for us.

392
00:21:47,950 --> 00:21:50,800
I totally agree. I totally
agree. I just I mean you just

393
00:21:50,950 --> 00:21:53,230
you can see it. I mean the
bleeding and just even the girl

394
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,380
side guys side doesn't matter
the pee wee level. I mean, but

395
00:21:56,380 --> 00:21:59,680
when I first started coaching, I
mean I I wrestled Iowa from '91

396
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,490
to '96, and I knew I wanted to
be a coach. I mean, that was

397
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,290
just the way it was. And the
only way to coach back then was

398
00:22:04,740 --> 00:22:07,110
well, either you were really
good and you stuck around a

399
00:22:07,140 --> 00:22:09,360
Division One college program,
and then you and I wasn't very

400
00:22:09,420 --> 00:22:12,630
good, so I had to figure out a
different way. So I was going to

401
00:22:12,630 --> 00:22:15,360
be a teacher, and that was the
only way that you could really

402
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,760
kind of go down that coaching
path and actually earn a living.

403
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,930
So I had to go be a teacher, and
high school coach and everything

404
00:22:21,020 --> 00:22:23,720
else, and now I mean these kids
are coming right out of college,

405
00:22:23,930 --> 00:22:25,490
and they're like, "I'm gonna
start a club. Yeah, they're

406
00:22:25,550 --> 00:22:27,950
making good money right out the
job, so it's it's awesome. I

407
00:22:27,980 --> 00:22:31,940
mean, it really is. So I'm,
yeah, I've been through the I've

408
00:22:31,940 --> 00:22:33,920
been through the ups and downs
of it. We're like, you're

409
00:22:33,950 --> 00:22:36,500
charging how much? Yeah. So
nowadays, it's like, hey,

410
00:22:36,590 --> 00:22:38,270
listen, it is what it is. I've
been around for a while, so

411
00:22:38,540 --> 00:22:39,290
yeah. Yeah,

412
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:39,950
I mean, it's yeah

413
00:22:40,210 --> 00:22:43,300
It's it's not different than a
lot of different sports in terms

414
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:46,450
of you know the specialization
is exactly is a tricky thing

415
00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:46,810
yes

416
00:22:47,260 --> 00:22:51,670
and you know obviously you know
these clubs to to be successful

417
00:22:51,730 --> 00:22:55,660
have to have scale right they
have to have participation in

418
00:22:55,660 --> 00:22:59,680
most cases year round which I
mean we know that you know

419
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,700
sports specialization
specialization at a really young

420
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,400
age isn't necessarily a positive
thing, and there's not a lot of

421
00:23:05,460 --> 00:23:10,890
correlation between, you know,
789-year-old, success and and

422
00:23:11,070 --> 00:23:13,770
winning the Olympic gold medal.
But you know, so there's a

423
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,630
there's a balance there that's
you know, maybe not positive all

424
00:23:18,750 --> 00:23:19,050
the time.

425
00:23:19,260 --> 00:23:19,410
Right.

426
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,350
But yeah, it's it's it's cool to
see the sport really have a

427
00:23:24,470 --> 00:23:28,850
sustainable business model that
that you know gathers rich

428
00:23:29,030 --> 00:23:32,870
talent to to stay involved in
the sport and to to give back

429
00:23:32,990 --> 00:23:36,170
and you know I think it's you
talk about before we start this

430
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:40,040
this interview about you know
wrestlers and you know hey I'm a

431
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:45,010
wrestler forever, and you know
it's it's it's just cool to see

432
00:23:45,970 --> 00:23:52,090
you know this demographic of the
most of our private donors that

433
00:23:52,150 --> 00:23:56,320
are significant contributors to
to to the sport in USA Wrestling

434
00:23:56,350 --> 00:23:58,690
have a pretty specific
demographic. It's a wrestler

435
00:23:58,780 --> 00:24:02,040
that maybe didn't have a lot of
success, but went on to success

436
00:24:02,100 --> 00:24:05,130
in business. That said, hey, the
only reason that I've had

437
00:24:05,220 --> 00:24:08,250
success in business is that I
was a wrestler. Yeah, I you know

438
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,040
I outwork everybody, and and
that's that's really cool to

439
00:24:11,130 --> 00:24:14,460
see. And then when you kind of
marry that that attitude with

440
00:24:14,670 --> 00:24:17,640
you know business opportunities,
you got some pretty big grinders

441
00:24:17,730 --> 00:24:19,860
out there that can do some
pretty cool things.

442
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,600
Yeah, yeah. You you mentioned
you know once a wrestler, always

443
00:24:23,630 --> 00:24:25,310
a wrestler. How'd you get how'd
you get involved in wrestling?

444
00:24:25,490 --> 00:24:27,200
Yeah, so true story. I was

445
00:24:27,410 --> 00:24:31,400
I started wrestling when I was
really young in first or second

446
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,190
grade in Boscobel, Wisconsin. I
had a cousin that was

447
00:24:34,940 --> 00:24:37,250
I gotta stop you there. What's
the deal with all the Wisconsin

448
00:24:37,310 --> 00:24:40,840
people that's involved with with
you say wrestling between you

449
00:24:40,990 --> 00:24:45,100
and Tony the Black, it's like
Wisconsin basically runs the

450
00:24:45,100 --> 00:24:47,440
deal. I don't know. Maybe it has
something to do with

451
00:24:47,500 --> 00:24:50,590
those of us that were raised
behind the cheddar curtain or

452
00:24:50,620 --> 00:24:55,210
something. I don't know. But
yeah. Anyway, so I mean, I

453
00:24:55,270 --> 00:24:58,060
started wrestling at a really
young age, and and had a cousin

454
00:24:58,300 --> 00:25:02,100
that was a state qualifier. For
our high school, that it was my

455
00:25:02,820 --> 00:25:06,420
my hero growing up, and you
know, I I went all in on on

456
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,090
wrestling at a very early age.
In fact, I have a seventh grade

457
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:12,060
report card that's in my office
today that I have framed that

458
00:25:12,150 --> 00:25:16,590
says my grades in in seventh
grade science had went down

459
00:25:17,370 --> 00:25:19,920
pretty significantly. I went
like you know down to I mean

460
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,930
they weren't failing but close,
and and my science teacher wrote

461
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,750
on the back of the report card
wrestling, wrestling, wrestling.

462
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:29,630
All Rich wants to do is talk
about wrestling. Can you tell

463
00:25:29,660 --> 00:25:33,320
him there's more to life than
wrestling? And so it's you know

464
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,720
that's how I got started and
wrestled all through high

465
00:25:35,870 --> 00:25:38,510
school. Actually played baseball
a couple years in college. I

466
00:25:38,660 --> 00:25:41,560
grew up in a really small
farming community in

467
00:25:41,620 --> 00:25:45,280
southwestern Wisconsin, where I
mean we had to play three sports

468
00:25:45,370 --> 00:25:49,540
to have teams, and I was you
know I was I was a better

469
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,290
baseball player than I was a
wrestler, but but without

470
00:25:53,380 --> 00:25:56,560
question, it was you know it's
been a passion of mine my whole

471
00:25:56,620 --> 00:25:59,920
life. I played football and
baseball and wrestled all

472
00:26:00,010 --> 00:26:02,910
through high school, and then
played baseball for a couple

473
00:26:02,970 --> 00:26:08,190
years in college, and then you
know had entered. I originally

474
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,770
thought I wanted to be a
conservation warden or a game

475
00:26:10,830 --> 00:26:13,080
warden. I went to the University
of Wisconsin Stevens Point,

476
00:26:13,110 --> 00:26:14,640
small division. Yeah, three
schools. Dennis Hall.

477
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,920
Dennis Hall. Yeah, Dennis Hall.
Yeah, Dennis Hall. And

478
00:26:17,490 --> 00:26:20,250
and so I went there for a year,
and then decided that wasn't

479
00:26:20,250 --> 00:26:26,810
what I wanted to do, and and I I
moved back to near closer to my

480
00:26:26,900 --> 00:26:30,050
hometown in Southwestern to went
to the University of Wisconsin

481
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,110
Lacrosse, and they started this
new sports management. It was

482
00:26:33,260 --> 00:26:36,590
like Ohio University and UW
Lacrosse were like the first

483
00:26:36,620 --> 00:26:39,050
schools to offer sports
management back in the in the

484
00:26:39,230 --> 00:26:44,020
late '80s, and just had a
phenomenal break and

485
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,740
opportunity. I was I was doing
what we called old timer

486
00:26:47,860 --> 00:26:51,310
wrestling, and you know on the
weekends there would be these

487
00:26:51,370 --> 00:26:54,580
little tournaments that would
pop up around you know the area,

488
00:26:54,580 --> 00:26:57,880
and I was wrestling in in the
tournaments. And I I wrote on my

489
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,470
resume when I applied for my
internship. I wrote my hobby was

490
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,590
wrestling, and I wasn't
wrestling in college. I mean, I

491
00:27:04,620 --> 00:27:08,190
was just doing these old timer
tournaments. And a guy named

492
00:27:08,250 --> 00:27:11,190
Toby Stewart and Ben Bennett
were at USA Wrestling looking to

493
00:27:11,250 --> 00:27:15,720
pick an intern at the time. You
know, the USOPC had had this

494
00:27:15,810 --> 00:27:18,540
internship program, and
literally 1000s of people apply

495
00:27:18,660 --> 00:27:22,820
for these internships. Which I
mean, my advisor in college at

496
00:27:23,030 --> 00:27:25,130
University of Wisconsin actually
told me, "Don't apply because

497
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,210
you're not a great wrestler, and
and your you know your grades

498
00:27:29,270 --> 00:27:33,440
aren't that good. And but I
happened to write hobby. My

499
00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:37,190
hobby was wrestling, and Toby
Stewart saw that on a resume,

500
00:27:38,060 --> 00:27:41,350
and I was a B, so the stack of
resumes that he pulled out of

501
00:27:41,380 --> 00:27:45,700
this, you know, stack of 1000s.
I was a B, so I was on the top,

502
00:27:45,850 --> 00:27:49,270
and you know, one of the first
people they called was me, and I

503
00:27:49,420 --> 00:27:52,480
hit it off with with Ben Bennett
originally, and you know, he

504
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,900
offered me the internship and
came, you know, restless kind of

505
00:27:55,900 --> 00:27:56,440
history. So

506
00:27:56,620 --> 00:27:58,540
that's it, huh? Yeah, just you
worked your way up through.

507
00:27:58,660 --> 00:27:58,720
Yeah,

508
00:27:58,810 --> 00:28:03,420
I started as an intern, and
funny story, my very first day

509
00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:06,510
at USA Wrestling as an intern.
So, if you're selected as an

510
00:28:06,570 --> 00:28:09,420
intern through the U.S. Olympic
Committee program, you live at

511
00:28:09,420 --> 00:28:12,330
the training center. So, I, you
know, I hadn't really been out

512
00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:15,960
of Wisconsin and never been on
an airplane, and drove out to to

513
00:28:16,290 --> 00:28:19,440
Colorado Springs, got all
checked into the to the to the

514
00:28:19,530 --> 00:28:22,490
dorms at the at the Olympic
Training Center and Monday

515
00:28:22,580 --> 00:28:26,600
morning you know had my my shirt
and tie on I went over to USA

516
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,200
Wrestling I walked in and there
was a gal there named Jennifer

517
00:28:30,290 --> 00:28:34,700
Teal who was end up being a dear
friend of mine but she was the

518
00:28:34,700 --> 00:28:39,080
the receptionist and I said hey
you know I'm Rich Bender and I'm

519
00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:42,100
your intern and she shook her
head like this and and I said,

520
00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:44,980
and by the way, I mean, I needed
this to graduate from college. I

521
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,740
mean, I was all done with all my
classwork. The last thing to get

522
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,640
my degree was a internship.
Really, and so she shook her

523
00:28:51,670 --> 00:28:53,380
head, and we're not we're not
having an intern. I said, no,

524
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,710
no, no, no. It's I'm not asking
if I can be an intern. I'm I'm

525
00:28:57,910 --> 00:29:00,070
your intern, and she goes,
you're not listening to me.

526
00:29:00,190 --> 00:29:02,970
We're not having any intern. I
said, "Well, can I talk to Ben

527
00:29:03,060 --> 00:29:08,100
Bennett? And she said, "No, he
got fired last week. And so I

528
00:29:08,190 --> 00:29:11,070
and I said, "Well, can I talk to
whoever's in charge? And she

529
00:29:11,220 --> 00:29:14,130
goes, "No, because he we already
talked about it, and you know

530
00:29:14,190 --> 00:29:17,640
we're not having an intern this
this semester. So I I didn't

531
00:29:17,670 --> 00:29:20,540
know what to do. So I got back
in my truck and I drove back

532
00:29:20,660 --> 00:29:23,930
over to the training center, and
this, the guy that was guy named

533
00:29:24,140 --> 00:29:27,290
Bob Paul was a Hall of Fame
media guy, was happened to be

534
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,620
coordinating the intern program
that year, and I told him the

535
00:29:30,650 --> 00:29:34,370
story, and he goes, "What? And
so he calls over to gets the

536
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,370
same Jennifer Teal at the office
at USA Wrestling, and she tells

537
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,800
him the same thing. We're not,
you know, mr. Paul, we're not

538
00:29:39,890 --> 00:29:42,700
having an intern, and he goes.
You let me talk to Dave Miller,

539
00:29:42,790 --> 00:29:47,710
and Dave Miller was the was the
CEO at the time. And Dave, you

540
00:29:47,740 --> 00:29:50,410
know, kind of tells him, "Hey,
look, we're struggling. Like

541
00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:52,510
they're they're we're
struggling. We can't we can't

542
00:29:52,540 --> 00:29:56,200
have an intern. And this Bob
Paul says to him to Dave, he

543
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,080
goes, "Well, let me tell you
something. This guy drove all

544
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,080
the way out here from
Wisconsin." And he needs this

545
00:30:01,410 --> 00:30:04,560
internship to graduate. And if
you can't figure it out, I'm

546
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,050
going to have to talk to
somebody about your funding. And

547
00:30:07,050 --> 00:30:12,000
which I mean, I I hoped he was
just joking that he weren't. But

548
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:15,480
and so Dave Miller says, who had
never met before and ended up

549
00:30:15,510 --> 00:30:18,570
being a really good friend of
mine, says, "Well, where's he

550
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,310
from? And the guy puts the phone
down. You know, we're in cell

551
00:30:22,430 --> 00:30:24,350
phones, and he goes, "Where are
you from? When I said, "I'm from

552
00:30:24,410 --> 00:30:27,200
Basqueville, Wisconsin, and he
says that to Dave Miller, and

553
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,270
Dave Miller said, "Send him
right over because Dave's from

554
00:30:29,300 --> 00:30:33,290
Madison. Oh, and so I go over
there and and I sit down with

555
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,200
Dave, and he goes, "Look, we are
struggling, right? We I don't

556
00:30:36,230 --> 00:30:38,750
know if I mean if we're going to
be able to stay in business. I

557
00:30:38,780 --> 00:30:41,590
mean, we're really struggling
financially, and there's,

558
00:30:41,830 --> 00:30:44,080
there's, I don't, I don't have a
program for you. You know, Ben

559
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,530
was gonna be your supervisor,
and he's not here anymore. And

560
00:30:48,700 --> 00:30:51,880
he said, "But I'll tell you
what: if, if you, if you agree

561
00:30:51,970 --> 00:30:55,570
not to like smash me and say,
'Hey, I came here for this

562
00:30:55,690 --> 00:30:58,060
internship and they weren't
prepared, we'll figure it out. I

563
00:30:58,150 --> 00:31:01,350
said, "Dave, I promise you, I'll
wash the windows, I'll, I'll

564
00:31:01,410 --> 00:31:02,040
vacuum the floor.

565
00:31:02,100 --> 00:31:05,820
I'll do whatever you want me to
do, and I promise you, you I

566
00:31:05,970 --> 00:31:10,920
won't I won't slam you for that.
So it wasn't probably a month

567
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,320
into the internship. He came in
my office one day and said,

568
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:15,690
"Hey, would would you think
about sticking around here after

569
00:31:15,690 --> 00:31:19,230
your internship? And so you
know, I started as an events

570
00:31:19,380 --> 00:31:22,640
intern. Then after my internship
ended, and you know, Gary Abbas

571
00:31:22,820 --> 00:31:24,980
always teases me because I
always say, "Hey, I started at

572
00:31:24,980 --> 00:31:26,060
USA Wrestling in July of

573
00:31:26,930 --> 00:31:27,230
1988,

574
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,600
and Gary Abbas says, "No, you
didn't. You started in January

575
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:33,020
one of '89 because that's when
you started getting. That's

576
00:31:33,020 --> 00:31:34,820
when. That's when. Sorry.

577
00:31:35,030 --> 00:31:39,260
Oh, you're good. That's only
fitting. Yeah, that's when

578
00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:40,210
three. That's

579
00:31:40,210 --> 00:31:43,870
when you started getting paid.
So, yeah. So I started at

580
00:31:43,930 --> 00:31:49,690
$15,000 a year at USA Wrestling
in 1989, and yeah, was able to

581
00:31:49,930 --> 00:31:52,750
to work my way up within the
organization, and you know

582
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,570
worked for Dave Miller for a
while, and then Jim Shear for 10

583
00:31:55,690 --> 00:31:59,170
years. Who you know was a
massive mentor for me. I owe owe

584
00:31:59,290 --> 00:32:02,910
a lot to you know what I learned
from Jim and the opportunities

585
00:32:02,910 --> 00:32:05,790
that he gave me, and things like
being the competition manager

586
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,000
for Atlanta in '96, and then
coming back as our associate

587
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,360
executive director and
responsible for national teams

588
00:32:12,390 --> 00:32:15,810
and events. It it gave me some
foundation. So then, when Jim

589
00:32:15,870 --> 00:32:19,020
was given an opportunity to move
to the U.S. Olympic Committee,

590
00:32:19,170 --> 00:32:22,310
that you know Bruce Baumgart.
Ironically, Bruce Baumgart was

591
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:27,560
in the the last part of his term
as president of USA Wrestling,

592
00:32:27,740 --> 00:32:32,360
and then you know one of the
last things he did before he was

593
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,380
done with that term was was
offer me the job, and so that

594
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:42,640
was in in 2000. So not long
after the the not long after the

595
00:32:42,730 --> 00:32:46,990
games in 2000, so late in 2000,
and then in 2000, you know I

596
00:32:47,050 --> 00:32:51,610
think it was either late 2000 or
early 2001. I was you know they

597
00:32:51,700 --> 00:32:55,990
took the interim title off, and
you know I've been now you know

598
00:32:56,050 --> 00:32:57,760
there for what 26 years.

599
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:04,140
Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, how
that all started? Yeah, that is

600
00:33:04,290 --> 00:33:07,020
nuts. Yeah, I mean, so USA
Wrestling was in that bad a

601
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:07,410
shape then.

602
00:33:07,650 --> 00:33:10,380
Yeah, I mean there was. I mean,
and at the end of the day, it

603
00:33:10,380 --> 00:33:14,550
was, and it wasn't. You know, we
didn't have the membership. I

604
00:33:14,550 --> 00:33:18,360
mean, right now, I mean, the the
driver of the you know, the

605
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,740
financial resources that USA
Wrestling has to reinvest in

606
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:26,060
sport, which I think we have no
bigger responsibility as staff

607
00:33:26,150 --> 00:33:29,810
members and those that that you
know have some responsibility in

608
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,410
sport than to to be great
managers of the precious

609
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,620
resources that we are entrusted
with. Meaning, a lot of times

610
00:33:36,650 --> 00:33:39,860
that's membership, right? We the
the straw that stirs the drink

611
00:33:39,950 --> 00:33:42,340
for USA Wrestling is our
membership. The 400, almost

612
00:33:42,340 --> 00:33:47,020
400,000 members that pay that
that that those membership dues

613
00:33:47,170 --> 00:33:50,020
every year is. I mean, that's
that's the foundation by which

614
00:33:50,110 --> 00:33:54,700
we do everything. You know this,
and and so you know I don't

615
00:33:54,700 --> 00:33:57,220
think we have any any bigger
responsibility. But back then we

616
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,140
didn't have that kind of
membership. I mean, a really

617
00:33:59,260 --> 00:34:01,590
small membership, and obviously
because

618
00:34:01,860 --> 00:34:04,350
who was kind of leading the
whole wrestling charge back

619
00:34:04,410 --> 00:34:07,320
then? Was that AAU back then?
Well, I mean, USA

620
00:34:07,439 --> 00:34:08,999
Wrestling had taken over.

621
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:09,299
Yeah,

622
00:34:10,770 --> 00:34:17,370
but it was. I mean, it was USWF
and then USA Wrestling. But I

623
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,680
mean, there just wasn't there
there there there there wasn't

624
00:34:19,710 --> 00:34:23,900
the resources available, and and
Dave Miller, and I've I've said

625
00:34:23,930 --> 00:34:27,890
this lots of times. Dave Miller
was a visionary, and just you

626
00:34:27,890 --> 00:34:31,010
know probably a little bit ahead
of his time in terms of you know

627
00:34:31,100 --> 00:34:36,230
had the ideas of you know where
USA Wrestling could go, and just

628
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,590
you know we didn't have the the
financial infrastructure to to

629
00:34:39,950 --> 00:34:43,630
do it, and so yeah, it got it
got. I mean, there were. I mean,

630
00:34:43,990 --> 00:34:47,140
Jim Shear. It's pretty well
documented when he came on Dave

631
00:34:47,170 --> 00:34:51,400
Miller moved on and Jim Shear
was hired. I think in one day he

632
00:34:51,460 --> 00:34:55,780
fired 17 people in one day, and
you know, we you know it's not a

633
00:34:56,140 --> 00:34:59,860
funny thing, but it just you
know Jim had the the courage.

634
00:35:00,630 --> 00:35:04,440
And and to know what had to
happen, and to be honest with

635
00:35:04,500 --> 00:35:07,140
you, that you know we were off
to the races after that, where

636
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,500
we could you know start to you
know operate in a in an

637
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:14,160
environment where you know we
could you know take on new

638
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,040
responsibilities and new have
new impact when we had the

639
00:35:17,100 --> 00:35:21,110
resources. Not you know this is
Dave had the had the vision,

640
00:35:21,740 --> 00:35:24,230
just not the resources to back
it up. So yeah, there were some

641
00:35:24,590 --> 00:35:28,820
really lean, lean, lean times,
you know, in those in early

642
00:35:29,330 --> 00:35:33,110
'90s. Wow! And but yeah, Jim
Shear, Jim Shear turned it

643
00:35:33,170 --> 00:35:35,120
around, and you know we've been
pretty blessed since.

644
00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:37,520
Yeah, you mentioned you
mentioned Jim Shear. I I haven't

645
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,920
met Jim. I had Bill my podcast.
Yeah, he was awesome. I mean,

646
00:35:39,980 --> 00:35:42,970
he's literally like one of the
most impressive people I've sat

647
00:35:43,030 --> 00:35:45,730
down with. I mean, talk about I
mean, not only just a obviously

648
00:35:45,790 --> 00:35:49,510
legendary wrestler, but just his
persona and just how intelligent

649
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:51,880
he is, and just I mean, just
really, really super impressive

650
00:35:51,940 --> 00:35:56,950
person. Obviously, they were and
you were a part of it. Is

651
00:35:57,070 --> 00:36:00,070
getting the Olympic getting us,
but back on the Olympic card.

652
00:36:00,250 --> 00:36:00,310
Yeah,

653
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:01,440
best things ever happened to
wrestling.

654
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,800
Man, yeah, take us through that
back. Yeah, so 2013 Bills side

655
00:36:04,830 --> 00:36:05,610
of it, but yeah, so

656
00:36:05,790 --> 00:36:09,270
and and Bill was um, you know,
Bill and Jim both were were very

657
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:15,030
very important players in that
in that in that whole process to

658
00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:18,300
to to get back on the program.
But you know, it all started and

659
00:36:18,390 --> 00:36:22,160
you know when Jock Rogue, who
was the president of the IOC,

660
00:36:22,340 --> 00:36:24,920
had this kind of mandate that he
was going to modernize the

661
00:36:24,980 --> 00:36:28,490
Olympic Games. And there's for
for a long time there's been

662
00:36:28,550 --> 00:36:32,030
this idea that the games are
just not manageable. There's too

663
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,450
many athletes, and this
commitment that hey, first we're

664
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,060
going to we're going to we're
going to constrict it down to

665
00:36:38,180 --> 00:36:41,770
10,000 athletes, and then they
realize that you know they they

666
00:36:41,890 --> 00:36:44,980
couldn't get within under 10,000
athletes, so it was 10,500

667
00:36:45,070 --> 00:36:48,850
athletes. And then, so part of
that whole mandate of making the

668
00:36:48,970 --> 00:36:53,410
games more manageable was the
idea of this modernization. So,

669
00:36:54,100 --> 00:36:56,680
at the time, there were 26
sports on the Olympic program.

670
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:01,020
Wrestling was included, and
Jacques Rogue's mandate was

671
00:37:01,260 --> 00:37:03,660
we're going to add two more
sports to the Olympic program to

672
00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:07,350
make it 28, and then we're going
to look at the 28 and take

673
00:37:07,410 --> 00:37:11,490
another one off and put another
one on, and the process was such

674
00:37:11,670 --> 00:37:16,200
that you know when it got to 28,
it was just a recommendation by

675
00:37:16,650 --> 00:37:20,960
an executive committee of like
12 people, just kind of a random

676
00:37:21,770 --> 00:37:24,440
group of people that were going
to make this recommendation. So

677
00:37:25,580 --> 00:37:29,660
they they added rugby seven in
golf to take the program from 26

678
00:37:29,750 --> 00:37:32,630
to 28. Wrestling still on the
program, and then went to an

679
00:37:32,660 --> 00:37:35,630
executive committee meeting. And
most people, in fact, we were

680
00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:40,150
paying attention to it because
we knew there was a vote. And

681
00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:43,360
all of our, you know, inside IOC
people now at the time,

682
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,120
wrestling didn't have anybody on
the inside of the IOC, nobody.

683
00:37:46,690 --> 00:37:50,830
So we were dealing with USOC,
international relations people,

684
00:37:51,460 --> 00:37:55,330
and and I remember having a
conversation with one of their

685
00:37:55,420 --> 00:37:58,540
execs the day before the vote,
and he said, you know, I I have

686
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,230
to give it to your president.
He's he's kept you guys out of

687
00:38:01,230 --> 00:38:03,990
the discussion, right? So
wrestling's not getting, it's

688
00:38:04,050 --> 00:38:06,600
not in the discussion. That it's
gonna, it'll be modern

689
00:38:06,660 --> 00:38:10,290
pentathlon. That was what what
he told me, and and so I went to

690
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,570
bed that night. That's that's
what I was thinking. But so

691
00:38:12,660 --> 00:38:18,240
they're in this room, and modern
pentathlon by most, you know, if

692
00:38:18,300 --> 00:38:21,000
there was betting going on, they
would have been the the favorite

693
00:38:21,060 --> 00:38:23,300
to to be eliminated. I mean,
there's five disciplines that

694
00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:25,730
are already all in the Olympics
anyway in their own right, and

695
00:38:26,300 --> 00:38:30,380
it's really expensive to to host
that at the games, and it's not

696
00:38:30,950 --> 00:38:36,020
really broadly participated. And
so, the the wild card was you

697
00:38:36,020 --> 00:38:38,930
can talk about sometimes it's
not what you know, you know,

698
00:38:38,930 --> 00:38:42,220
it's who you know. The vice
president of the International

699
00:38:42,580 --> 00:38:45,100
Modern Pentathlon Federation is
on the executive board of the

700
00:38:45,250 --> 00:38:51,040
IOC, so he's in the room. And
and I have this is a philosophy

701
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,860
that I you know I you know I
guess maybe we could prove it to

702
00:38:53,890 --> 00:38:57,070
be true or not. But the the
first vote comes, and

703
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,680
wrestling's named by a couple of
people, and they don't, you

704
00:39:01,710 --> 00:39:05,220
know, they had to get to. I
think it was seven to get to the

705
00:39:05,310 --> 00:39:09,480
decision. So there were, you
know, 13 people. So seven was a

706
00:39:09,540 --> 00:39:13,140
majority. And then the next
vote, wrestling dropped down. I

707
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,410
think had one or two vote, one
vote. And then modern pentathlon

708
00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:20,160
was was getting closer to the to
the seven. And then the third

709
00:39:20,190 --> 00:39:23,630
vote comes and there's seven for
wrestling, and I have this

710
00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:27,800
philosophy that it was just a
situation that the seven people

711
00:39:27,830 --> 00:39:29,540
thought, well, there's no way
we're kicking wrestling off the

712
00:39:29,630 --> 00:39:32,330
Olympic program. I can look this
guy in the face and say I didn't

713
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:36,620
vote for you or for this sport,
and wrestling was caught in a

714
00:39:36,740 --> 00:39:40,570
just like a weird scenario. Now
we were in that position because

715
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:43,060
we had an international
federation that totally

716
00:39:43,570 --> 00:39:48,160
disrespected the process because
the IOC, you know, went to some

717
00:39:48,370 --> 00:39:53,470
painstaking efforts to put
together these these documents

718
00:39:53,590 --> 00:39:57,610
and volumes of data about you
know how widely the sport has

719
00:39:57,700 --> 00:40:00,870
participated in our
international federation. Just

720
00:40:01,110 --> 00:40:04,050
told them to go fly a kite.
We're not, you know, we're not

721
00:40:04,110 --> 00:40:04,680
doing it.

722
00:40:04,740 --> 00:40:09,090
And and one of the and so we
actually got a copy of the the

723
00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:11,940
document that they had
completed. And I'll just give

724
00:40:11,940 --> 00:40:14,310
you an example how how they
disregarded it. They said the

725
00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:18,960
one of the questions was, how
many times has wrestling been

726
00:40:19,140 --> 00:40:23,210
participated on the Pan American
Games program, well, the answer

727
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:29,930
is every one, right? And they
put two. And so, not even, I

728
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:31,880
mean, like somebody just like,

729
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:32,540
wow,

730
00:40:32,870 --> 00:40:36,530
just turned it in. But so I
mean, that's why wrestling, you

731
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,840
know, because you have staff
members then within the IOC who

732
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,130
are not are not fans of
wrestling because of you know

733
00:40:42,190 --> 00:40:44,530
the disrespect that they're
feeling, and it was a bit of a

734
00:40:44,650 --> 00:40:50,650
perfect storm. And then you know
I remember, I remember I was in

735
00:40:50,650 --> 00:40:57,610
the shower on the 13th. I think
it was february 13. My wife came

736
00:40:57,730 --> 00:40:59,920
in and she said, "Hey, you need
to get your phone. It's blowing

737
00:40:59,950 --> 00:41:02,460
up. And immediately, I know
exactly what's going on. I mean,

738
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,180
it's because I mean, I knew the
vote was going on, and and it

739
00:41:06,210 --> 00:41:10,320
was. I picked up my phone, and I
looked down, and it was Coach

740
00:41:10,530 --> 00:41:14,340
Gable saying, "Worst news ever.
And then it was like, "Oh my

741
00:41:14,550 --> 00:41:19,350
God! What? And you know,
obviously, it was it was a shock

742
00:41:19,500 --> 00:41:20,070
at first.

743
00:41:20,340 --> 00:41:20,400
Yeah.

744
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:25,340
But you know, we we I'm really
proud of the the the response

745
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:27,800
that our sport had and our
organization had is

746
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:28,130
great,

747
00:41:28,310 --> 00:41:32,120
right? We early on, you know,
there was this push to be

748
00:41:32,300 --> 00:41:34,670
wrestlers, like, hey, we're
gonna somebody's gonna pay for

749
00:41:34,700 --> 00:41:37,490
this, like we're gonna sue
somebody, we're gonna, you know,

750
00:41:37,580 --> 00:41:40,070
we're gonna hold somebody
accountable for this. It's the

751
00:41:40,070 --> 00:41:43,720
dumbest decision ever, which
right it wasn't the dumbest. But

752
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,380
you know we're dealing with
royalty and aristocracy within

753
00:41:47,380 --> 00:41:51,040
the IOC. That right they don't
they don't that that that's not

754
00:41:51,130 --> 00:41:54,970
how they operate. And you know
we were able to convince the

755
00:41:55,180 --> 00:42:00,540
broader sport that hey let's use
this as an opportunity and let's

756
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,880
make them look good. And I
remember having those

757
00:42:02,970 --> 00:42:04,860
conversations early on with a
lot of people who are like

758
00:42:05,490 --> 00:42:09,540
making these jack legs look
good. What? Why? And you know,

759
00:42:09,630 --> 00:42:13,320
but I'm telling you, that was
foundational to us getting back

760
00:42:13,530 --> 00:42:19,020
in because we knew that if if we
were kicked out, they were they

761
00:42:19,110 --> 00:42:22,430
were going to be embarrassed by
the by the decision and and have

762
00:42:22,490 --> 00:42:26,420
a hard time really justifying.
So, we we we said to them

763
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,630
basically, thank you for giving
us the opportunity, but we had

764
00:42:29,810 --> 00:42:34,190
one vote to get first, and that
was you know ultimately that the

765
00:42:34,220 --> 00:42:37,970
the process didn't contemplate
one of the the one that was

766
00:42:38,060 --> 00:42:41,380
kicked out to be able to
compete, and so we had a lawyer

767
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,640
from at the time Fila that found
in the in the Olympic Charter

768
00:42:46,270 --> 00:42:49,660
language that said only the
session can determine the

769
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:54,670
program, meaning the entire 100
member IOC session they call it

770
00:42:54,670 --> 00:42:58,180
the general session can
determine the program. We said,

771
00:42:58,270 --> 00:43:00,160
look, you're determining the
program. You're kicking us off

772
00:43:00,220 --> 00:43:04,650
the program and by seven people,
we you have to at least let us

773
00:43:04,770 --> 00:43:07,410
compete with all the other
sports that are trying to get

774
00:43:07,470 --> 00:43:11,700
that 28 spot. And when we, to
tell you truth, when we got that

775
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:13,200
vote in Saint Petersburg,

776
00:43:13,380 --> 00:43:13,440
yeah,

777
00:43:13,770 --> 00:43:18,810
that later you know that summer,
it we were we had

778
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:19,530
it because

779
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,780
you know we were we we took a
genuine approach that we had to

780
00:43:23,900 --> 00:43:27,020
change ourselves. We got new
leadership within the

781
00:43:27,110 --> 00:43:30,170
international federation, which
that doesn't happen, right? And

782
00:43:30,530 --> 00:43:34,160
then so once we got had a
leadership change, and a in a

783
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:38,870
kind of a commitment by everyone
to say, this is this is we have

784
00:43:38,930 --> 00:43:42,580
new life here, and we better not
screw this up. So we got to take

785
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,090
a hard look at what we do, how
we govern ourselves. That's, I

786
00:43:46,150 --> 00:43:48,250
mean, at the time we were
pulling balls out of a bag to

787
00:43:48,250 --> 00:43:51,310
determine who the winners were.
The rules were screwed up. The

788
00:43:51,340 --> 00:43:54,580
officiating had no
accountability. Athletes weren't

789
00:43:54,610 --> 00:43:57,040
involved in any part of the
governance, and all those

790
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:02,340
changes were made. And you know
that's that's that's been that

791
00:44:02,430 --> 00:44:05,910
was the thing that happened that
changed the trajectory of our

792
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,110
sport, and you know I think it's
you know we owe a lot to a lot

793
00:44:10,110 --> 00:44:13,110
of people that were really
instrumental. Nanud Lalavik, who

794
00:44:13,290 --> 00:44:19,350
is the current president of of
UWW, was the perfect leader. I

795
00:44:19,410 --> 00:44:23,210
mean he's he's he's raised as a
diplomat. His dad was a

796
00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:26,360
diplomat, so he didn't know a
lot about wrestling, or didn't

797
00:44:26,450 --> 00:44:29,360
at the time, and you know, but
knew how to to work with people.

798
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:32,780
And then he went on to become an
ironically an executive

799
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,540
committee member of the IFC.
Really? So we have you know the

800
00:44:35,660 --> 00:44:38,030
president of our international
federation sits on the in the

801
00:44:38,180 --> 00:44:40,700
general session now. He's just
termed. That's

802
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:43,630
that's like that's crazy
important. Oh yeah, I mean

803
00:44:43,630 --> 00:44:46,300
that's like yeah. I don't think
I mean I don't know this

804
00:44:46,390 --> 00:44:47,980
landscape that you're talking
about. So this is super

805
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,470
interesting to me, but just
having somebody like on that

806
00:44:50,470 --> 00:44:52,960
Olympic board, I mean just oh my
back shot a jockey for you.

807
00:44:53,350 --> 00:44:55,390
Oh my gosh, and it's you know
that wouldn't have happened.

808
00:44:55,420 --> 00:44:56,320
Yeah, I mean he would

809
00:44:56,620 --> 00:44:57,640
old leadership. That would
happen.

810
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:02,310
Yeah, well, he he he is. In the
room, I mean, he's that wouldn't

811
00:45:02,340 --> 00:45:04,890
have happened if he was in the
room that day. Yeah, right,

812
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,670
right. And so, I mean, I know
it's. I mean, it sounds a little

813
00:45:08,700 --> 00:45:12,420
bit like corruption, but I mean,
at the end of the day, I mean,

814
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,810
it's relationships that make a
lot of things go around, and and

815
00:45:16,050 --> 00:45:22,010
and access and knowledge and you
know because we met with 100% of

816
00:45:22,370 --> 00:45:25,190
the IOC members that in that
time frame from when we were

817
00:45:25,310 --> 00:45:28,340
allowed to compete again, and
when the vote came in Buenos

818
00:45:28,460 --> 00:45:32,990
Aires later that that year, we
met one on one with 100% of the

819
00:45:33,020 --> 00:45:36,680
ILC members, all 100. We met
face to face with them, talked

820
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,110
to them about you know the
changes that we had made, and

821
00:45:39,830 --> 00:45:43,960
and to a person, they all agree
that this is the craziest

822
00:45:43,990 --> 00:45:46,480
decision that that are made. You
have my support because

823
00:45:46,570 --> 00:45:50,020
wrestling is one of the oldest
sports. I mean, one of the the

824
00:45:50,020 --> 00:45:53,350
the foundational, I guess,
messages that we were able to

825
00:45:53,350 --> 00:45:56,530
deliver to the IOC was, and you
know, a lot of people don't know

826
00:45:56,650 --> 00:46:00,370
this, that wrestling distributes
more medals to more countries

827
00:46:00,970 --> 00:46:04,020
than any sport on the program
besides track and field, and

828
00:46:04,050 --> 00:46:08,790
track and field has 90 some
opportunities and wrestling. You

829
00:46:08,820 --> 00:46:11,790
know, usually it's 2627,
different sports or different

830
00:46:11,820 --> 00:46:14,910
countries win medals, and to win
Olympic medal, right? For the

831
00:46:14,940 --> 00:46:17,940
most part, you got to have a
program. Yeah, and so you know

832
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,650
that was a selling point with us
to the to the IOC, that look, I

833
00:46:21,650 --> 00:46:24,800
mean, yeah, I mean, we're we
have a. It's funny we say, hey,

834
00:46:24,950 --> 00:46:26,990
we're just because we're old
doesn't mean we're

835
00:46:27,140 --> 00:46:31,160
old-fashioned. But you know, the
I think the the number one

836
00:46:31,250 --> 00:46:34,550
selling point for the majority
of the IOC members was how

837
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,130
global our sport was
participated at a really high

838
00:46:37,250 --> 00:46:42,220
level, and so like that that
medal distribution is really

839
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:46,540
really important, and and so
like I said, we we met with 100%

840
00:46:46,630 --> 00:46:49,600
of those people, and you know I
I don't remember one meeting

841
00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:52,300
where there was pushback from
anybody thinking ah good luck I

842
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,240
hope you beat softball baseball
or ended up being softball

843
00:46:55,270 --> 00:46:58,270
baseball and squash where we
were ultimately on that final

844
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:03,480
ballot with, but you know the
sport. We weren't trying to sell

845
00:47:03,660 --> 00:47:05,610
stuff to people. We weren't
trying to sell them something

846
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,250
that wasn't true. It was easy to
make an argument. I mean, like

847
00:47:08,850 --> 00:47:11,460
you do it all the time, right?
On the values of wrestling, and

848
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,250
you know when you're talking to,
for the most part, people that

849
00:47:14,340 --> 00:47:17,010
have some pretty significant
historical knowledge of the

850
00:47:17,130 --> 00:47:19,920
Olympic movement worldwide in
the in the role. I mean, we're

851
00:47:19,950 --> 00:47:21,710
in the I mean we're in the
original program,

852
00:47:21,980 --> 00:47:22,280
exactly,

853
00:47:22,430 --> 00:47:26,630
and so and right. There's other
selling points for our sport in

854
00:47:26,690 --> 00:47:29,870
that in that environment where
it's you know it's not an

855
00:47:29,900 --> 00:47:32,630
expensive sport to participate
in. And Henry Cejudo told me one

856
00:47:32,870 --> 00:47:35,810
time that hey, the coolest thing
about wrestling is all you need

857
00:47:36,290 --> 00:47:38,690
is to win Olympic gold medal.
All you need is a pair of shoes

858
00:47:38,750 --> 00:47:42,220
and a dream. Yep, and it's true.
I mean, there's there's a lot of

859
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,270
truth to that because you know,
and I think it's just it's cool

860
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:51,100
to see our sport thrive, and you
know, it's it's a it's a sport

861
00:47:51,190 --> 00:47:54,010
for many many generations to
come.

862
00:47:54,220 --> 00:47:58,390
Yeah, as scary as a time as that
was, just looking back at it,

863
00:47:58,900 --> 00:48:02,250
and like you had already alluded
to, it really, I think gave

864
00:48:02,580 --> 00:48:04,890
wrestling a wake up call in
general. Like you were just, I

865
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,470
mean, we had we were pulling
balls out of the bag to

866
00:48:07,620 --> 00:48:10,680
determine winners, and just the
way that's what I love where our

867
00:48:10,740 --> 00:48:13,290
sports. I love the rule. I like
everything about it right now. I

868
00:48:13,350 --> 00:48:15,930
think everything's really really
good. It's very starting to get

869
00:48:15,930 --> 00:48:18,600
more fan friendly. That outside
of the wrestling, it's

870
00:48:18,660 --> 00:48:20,870
everything's just good. I think
yeah. Well, I mean, I think

871
00:48:20,900 --> 00:48:23,420
there's a level of
accountability now, and it's you

872
00:48:23,450 --> 00:48:25,670
know talking about this
tournament here. I mean, one of

873
00:48:26,030 --> 00:48:28,340
the the biggest changes that
were made to this tournament. I

874
00:48:28,340 --> 00:48:31,730
I used to be just amazed. I go
home on, you know, after this

875
00:48:31,850 --> 00:48:34,880
tournament and and tell my wife,
man, I don't know why these

876
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,930
referees do this. Like, there's
you know, 300 referees here that

877
00:48:39,620 --> 00:48:42,370
a lot of them are taking their
whole year's vacation to to come

878
00:48:42,430 --> 00:48:46,450
to Fargo and get yelled at by
coaches, and and that changed

879
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,390
like overnight from when we
started the reviews because

880
00:48:49,450 --> 00:48:52,750
there was a a layer of
accountability. There's a

881
00:48:52,810 --> 00:48:55,240
culture now that's different,
and I and I'm sure there's going

882
00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:57,100
to be people listening to this
saying, "Rich, you're crazy.

883
00:48:57,550 --> 00:49:01,110
They're still these refs are
cheating us, and and you know

884
00:49:01,230 --> 00:49:05,430
there there's certainly, I mean
there's always possibilities of

885
00:49:05,700 --> 00:49:08,970
of that, but for the most part,
when calls don't go our way and

886
00:49:08,970 --> 00:49:12,600
they're then they're wrong, it's
an error, not hey there's

887
00:49:12,900 --> 00:49:15,030
cheating going on like there
used to be, right? It used to be

888
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,150
kind of a badge of courage to
put the screws to somebody

889
00:49:18,210 --> 00:49:20,070
because they were from a
different country or whatever,

890
00:49:20,190 --> 00:49:22,760
and but there's a layer of
accountability now in our sport,

891
00:49:23,420 --> 00:49:26,720
with with the reviews and and
the culture around. Hey, it's

892
00:49:26,780 --> 00:49:30,890
not cool to to cheat somebody. I
mean, that wasn't long ago that

893
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:35,000
it was cool to cheat somebody.
And so, right, and the sport's

894
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:38,720
hard enough as it is to to not
have to deal with like

895
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,380
corruption at a at a at a you
know situation. What's the

896
00:49:41,530 --> 00:49:45,640
worst? And I mean, I don't know.
Not sure how deep you could get

897
00:49:45,670 --> 00:49:50,860
into it, but what's the the most
like furious you've been? Yeah,

898
00:49:51,130 --> 00:49:53,500
over over a situation. I don't
know about if if I would

899
00:49:53,620 --> 00:49:56,590
say furious. I said I've said
this publicly a couple times in

900
00:49:56,650 --> 00:49:58,300
terms of my. There's

901
00:49:58,330 --> 00:50:03,930
been a lot of my psychol. Which
one? Yeah, right. Which one?

902
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:05,100
Which one? And it's,

903
00:50:06,090 --> 00:50:12,060
but I think my mine has been
Kerry McCoy's semifinal match in

904
00:50:12,180 --> 00:50:18,510
Tehran in '97. He's he is
wrestling the Cuban in a match,

905
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,560
and at the time Bruce
Baumgartner or Bruce Burnett was

906
00:50:21,650 --> 00:50:25,520
our coach, and and they had game
planned against a guy that, by

907
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,220
no account, Carey should
probably beat. I mean, just the

908
00:50:28,340 --> 00:50:33,440
guy is really good. And Lexi
Rodriguez, Lexi, yeah, I think

909
00:50:34,490 --> 00:50:38,960
anyway. So Carrie's in the
semifinals, and you know

910
00:50:39,050 --> 00:50:42,370
wrestles the match that he has
to wrestle, gets him exhausted,

911
00:50:42,790 --> 00:50:47,170
laces him to win. We go crazy.
We're running out of the venue

912
00:50:47,170 --> 00:50:49,180
because it was the last match,
and you know that that was an

913
00:50:49,180 --> 00:50:52,360
amazing World Championships. I
mean, there, I mean, there's no

914
00:50:52,510 --> 00:50:55,840
fire marshals in Tehran, and I
mean, there couldn't possibly be

915
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,890
any more people in the arena,
and it was just electric. And

916
00:51:00,670 --> 00:51:03,510
Kerry wins this match, which you
know we know who he's wrestling,

917
00:51:03,690 --> 00:51:07,350
and you know he's he's he's a
world champion. And I remember

918
00:51:07,500 --> 00:51:11,010
running up the stairs, and the
the wife of the pro, the only

919
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,730
female in the building, was was
the wife of the the

920
00:51:15,090 --> 00:51:17,490
international federation
president, Fila president

921
00:51:17,850 --> 00:51:21,500
Madeline Martinetti, and and she
grabbed me by the arm and she

922
00:51:22,010 --> 00:51:27,860
said, "Rich, wait. There's a
protest. And her husband was,

923
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,100
you know, in charge. He wasn't
the president of. He was at the

924
00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:33,080
time. He was not the president.
He was in charge of the

925
00:51:33,260 --> 00:51:38,360
referees. He went on to be the
president. But so I turn and run

926
00:51:38,420 --> 00:51:41,530
back down. I remember John Smith
was was our was was one of our

927
00:51:41,590 --> 00:51:43,930
coaches. Bruce Burnett was the
coach, and you know we have the

928
00:51:44,020 --> 00:51:46,600
time we called them volunteer
coaches, and John John was one

929
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:52,900
of the coaches, and he had went
down. So I'd ran back down and

930
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:58,090
and asked this guy Mario
Seletnik, who was an exec with

931
00:51:58,450 --> 00:52:02,730
one of the executive board of
the UWW or Fila at the time, and

932
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:06,660
I says Mario's there is there
some a problem with the with the

933
00:52:06,990 --> 00:52:10,260
last match? He goes, Yeah,
there's a protest. Like like how

934
00:52:10,260 --> 00:52:13,950
is there a protest? And because
there's I mean you you can go

935
00:52:14,070 --> 00:52:18,900
watch the match, and and there
was some interaction with our

936
00:52:19,860 --> 00:52:23,990
then International Federation
rep Larry Shakatano and and

937
00:52:23,990 --> 00:52:29,360
these officials that were
because the process was they

938
00:52:29,510 --> 00:52:34,010
would take some of the executive
bureau members that were in

939
00:52:34,100 --> 00:52:36,980
attendance and they go in a room
and they'd rewatch the match and

940
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:41,800
rescore a match if there's a
protest and so I mean no

941
00:52:41,950 --> 00:52:44,740
disrespect to those people. Most
of them didn't know the rules

942
00:52:44,950 --> 00:52:48,760
anyway. So, the the people that
were that had the kind of the

943
00:52:48,910 --> 00:52:52,840
rub with Larry Shakatano, Larry
Shakatano had said to one of

944
00:52:52,870 --> 00:52:55,090
them, "Hey, I don't want you to
go in the protests because

945
00:52:55,150 --> 00:52:57,130
obviously Larry wasn't eligible
to be in the protest because he

946
00:52:57,190 --> 00:53:00,700
was a he's a U.S. guy and it was
so there couldn't be a Cuban or

947
00:53:00,700 --> 00:53:03,210
a U.S. guy in there, and and he
grabbed the guy by the arm and

948
00:53:03,210 --> 00:53:05,910
said, "Hey, you know, I'd rather
you not go in this protest.

949
00:53:06,060 --> 00:53:09,930
Well, this guy like goes
ballistic, like felt like he was

950
00:53:10,380 --> 00:53:14,970
questioning his integrity or
whatever, and so the the protest

951
00:53:15,030 --> 00:53:21,050
goes, and they rescore the match
and said that Carey, when he had

952
00:53:21,290 --> 00:53:24,920
Lexi up when he kicked through
for the lace. He landed flat on

953
00:53:24,950 --> 00:53:28,910
his back, and it was auto tush.
So the match ended there, and it

954
00:53:28,910 --> 00:53:32,060
was you know one of the greatest
travesties that I've seen. I I

955
00:53:32,210 --> 00:53:36,920
mean I I mean it still bothers
me to this day, and I not near

956
00:53:36,950 --> 00:53:40,520
as much as it bothers Gary
probably, but you know I mean

957
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,480
there that's in my mind. That
was a world champ right there,

958
00:53:43,930 --> 00:53:49,330
and so there's, you know, those
things. Now it's it's settled on

959
00:53:49,330 --> 00:53:54,040
the mat, and and you know there
aren't there aren't protests or

960
00:53:54,220 --> 00:53:57,070
protests or opportunity. Yeah,
there can be bias on, you know,

961
00:53:57,190 --> 00:54:01,290
looking at reviews, etc. But you
know the days of stuff like that

962
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:03,600
happening, thank God, are over.

963
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:08,730
And you know, so I mean, I I was
able when I was serving as I

964
00:54:08,790 --> 00:54:11,820
served as competition manager
for for the games in '96, and

965
00:54:12,300 --> 00:54:16,260
you know, been involved in you
know the International

966
00:54:16,290 --> 00:54:19,560
Federation for a long time, ran
a lot of events for us, World

967
00:54:19,620 --> 00:54:22,640
Championships and World Cups and
you know Pan American

968
00:54:22,700 --> 00:54:27,560
Championships, so I I was able
as the as the events guy to sit

969
00:54:27,620 --> 00:54:29,780
in a lot of those because a lot
of times I was the guy running

970
00:54:29,990 --> 00:54:34,400
the the you know he put the
camera in or the big old tape in

971
00:54:34,490 --> 00:54:38,120
and then rewind it and it you
know was really clunky because

972
00:54:38,270 --> 00:54:41,590
you had like one of the guys who
was a referee on the bureau

973
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:46,030
would stand up and everybody get
a score sheet, and then they'd

974
00:54:46,090 --> 00:54:51,130
start the video, and he'd say
one red, and so obviously when

975
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:55,660
he's all done, okay, I got nine
eight. What do what do you? And

976
00:54:55,930 --> 00:54:58,690
there was anybody saying, "Well,
I got you know I got 10 eight,

977
00:54:59,830 --> 00:55:03,630
you know. So it was, it was
really, and and you know I

978
00:55:03,900 --> 00:55:05,970
probably talk a little bit out
of both sides of my mouth when I

979
00:55:06,090 --> 00:55:08,760
say this. At the time, I don't
think the guy was necessarily

980
00:55:08,820 --> 00:55:13,080
that was running referees was
was cheating as much as he has

981
00:55:13,350 --> 00:55:15,510
was really arrogant about he was
smarter than everybody. Like,

982
00:55:15,930 --> 00:55:19,980
hey, I know what needs to
happen, and he didn't all the

983
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:23,870
time. So I mean, there was some
probably dark days that you

984
00:55:23,870 --> 00:55:26,840
could talk about our sport, and
I think in 2013 that all

985
00:55:26,900 --> 00:55:30,770
changed. And you know, we just
have to remain vigilant because

986
00:55:31,820 --> 00:55:34,400
you know we're starting to get
you know further and further

987
00:55:34,460 --> 00:55:38,300
from 2013, and memories aren't
quite as vivid and sharp. Yeah,

988
00:55:38,660 --> 00:55:43,510
that's true. You know, you know
2014, 15. I mean, everybody knew

989
00:55:43,630 --> 00:55:46,720
that. Hey, we can't be jacking
around, right? We can't be

990
00:55:47,620 --> 00:55:52,600
cheating athletes or you know
being you know non transparent

991
00:55:52,660 --> 00:55:55,660
with stuff. Or we could be right
back to where we were.

992
00:55:56,020 --> 00:55:56,080
Yeah.

993
00:55:56,440 --> 00:56:01,650
And so we have to stay vigilant
to ensure that our sport is, you

994
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:06,630
know, I mean, integrity and
transparency are, I mean, you

995
00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:08,850
don't have a chance. I mean, you
can look at some other sports

996
00:56:08,850 --> 00:56:12,570
and see where, you know, that's
been a part of the thing. And I,

997
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,710
you know, I think, you know,
integrity is a foundational

998
00:56:16,770 --> 00:56:19,200
piece of wrestling. And I know
it sounds a little bit weird to

999
00:56:19,410 --> 00:56:23,360
say that, but I think about
other challenges that we've had

1000
00:56:23,420 --> 00:56:28,160
as a sport. I mean, no bigger
challenge since 2013

1001
00:56:28,370 --> 00:56:29,450
than COVID. And you think

1002
00:56:29,510 --> 00:56:34,490
about you know wrestling and
social distancing the antithesis

1003
00:56:34,670 --> 00:56:38,240
of one another, right? And like
we should have no no chance,

1004
00:56:38,570 --> 00:56:41,380
right? There should be no chance
that that wrestling can survive

1005
00:56:41,500 --> 00:56:45,280
this environment, and I think
because of that idea of

1006
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:50,020
integrity, and I mean, we shake
hands before we start and after

1007
00:56:50,050 --> 00:56:54,160
we finish, and you know we do
skin checks, and it's not cool

1008
00:56:54,220 --> 00:56:58,180
in wrestling to to I mean it
happens to hide ringworm, right?

1009
00:56:58,300 --> 00:57:01,800
It's and you know we do we do
med checks, and so I think in

1010
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,980
COVID, that you know kind of
foundational integrity of our

1011
00:57:05,070 --> 00:57:09,120
sport saved us because when
athletes were sick, they weren't

1012
00:57:09,180 --> 00:57:13,440
wrestling. Right. Right. And and
you know I think back um in that

1013
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:16,650
time when we we did an event in
in Utah because there were only

1014
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,800
a few states that were allowing
you know any kind of athletic

1015
00:57:19,860 --> 00:57:23,060
competition and you know we were
blessed to have some really

1016
00:57:23,150 --> 00:57:26,900
smart people helping us with our
COVID committee. And as we

1017
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:28,340
started to break down
tournaments, thought you know

1018
00:57:29,420 --> 00:57:31,850
basketball is way more dangerous
than wrestling when it comes to

1019
00:57:32,180 --> 00:57:34,310
personal contact in a game. I
mean, you go to a wrestling

1020
00:57:34,730 --> 00:57:35,870
match, you're wrestling one
person,

1021
00:57:36,020 --> 00:57:36,080
yeah,

1022
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:37,880
right. If you're going to a
tournament, maybe you're

1023
00:57:37,940 --> 00:57:41,360
wrestling you know four or five
different people, and certainly

1024
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:44,560
if you have COVID, you want to
wrestle somebody with COVID. But

1025
00:57:45,070 --> 00:57:47,620
we're able to break it down to
say, look, if we can just

1026
00:57:47,860 --> 00:57:50,920
isolate the couple of
foundational things that, hey,

1027
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,440
we got to make sure people
aren't wrestling if they have

1028
00:57:53,500 --> 00:57:56,140
COVID. You know, and obviously
it's a little tricky sometimes

1029
00:57:56,140 --> 00:57:58,090
because we had to do testing
that we, you know, was

1030
00:57:58,150 --> 00:58:03,300
expensive. But but we knew that
if, you know, if if we could

1031
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,630
just isolate it to you know
one-on-one interaction, you

1032
00:58:06,630 --> 00:58:09,990
know, keep coaches and fans,
that we could probably

1033
00:58:10,110 --> 00:58:13,470
participate in the sport, and
and we proved that early on. A

1034
00:58:13,710 --> 00:58:17,400
big tournament in Utah, we did
testing before and after, and it

1035
00:58:17,460 --> 00:58:18,240
wasn't a super spreader.

1036
00:58:18,570 --> 00:58:18,630
Yeah,

1037
00:58:19,140 --> 00:58:23,570
and and so I mean, we-I don't
think took the step back that a

1038
00:58:23,630 --> 00:58:27,050
lot of sports did. Funny story:
I had a friend of mine that was

1039
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:30,590
running USA weightlifting at the
time, and he called me, and we

1040
00:58:30,620 --> 00:58:32,930
had just-I mean, we'd been
running tournaments. Probably,

1041
00:58:35,060 --> 00:58:38,150
you know, we we were running big
tournaments, and and that was

1042
00:58:38,510 --> 00:58:40,670
there's still a lot of shutdown
in a lot of different states.

1043
00:58:40,670 --> 00:58:43,030
You remember there were certain
states that you could you could

1044
00:58:43,060 --> 00:58:45,370
do stuff, and then certain
states you couldn't. And he

1045
00:58:45,460 --> 00:58:47,650
called me and he said, "Rich, I
know wrestling. Certainly, you

1046
00:58:47,650 --> 00:58:50,020
guys can't do anything, but
we're thinking about doing a

1047
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,930
virtual weightlifting event,
like virtual. Like we have

1048
00:58:52,990 --> 00:58:56,530
people in their, in their home,
you know, lifting weights, and

1049
00:58:56,530 --> 00:58:59,560
then they'll be competing. And
you know, let's, you know, you

1050
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:02,520
have any thoughts on that? I
said, Phil, I mean, we're

1051
00:59:02,580 --> 00:59:05,790
running wrestling tours right
now. Like, we just had 2000 kids

1052
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,810
in Utah. Like, what? And so I
tell you that because I think

1053
00:59:09,870 --> 00:59:13,500
it's back to this kind of
foundational benefit and culture

1054
00:59:13,620 --> 00:59:17,610
within wrestling of, of you know
this, you know, strong

1055
00:59:17,730 --> 00:59:21,590
commitment to integrity, to you
know what the values are that

1056
00:59:21,590 --> 00:59:25,700
the sport instills in us, and I
think it's it's saved our sport,

1057
00:59:26,330 --> 00:59:29,930
and and it's helped us get in a
position where our sport, you

1058
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,630
know, is is thriving. Is there
opportunity, as Bruce Baumgart

1059
00:59:32,750 --> 00:59:35,870
says, to get better every day?
Yeah, for sure. I mean, and I

1060
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:39,680
think it's man, just it's
awesome to be around this sport,

1061
00:59:39,950 --> 00:59:43,510
and you know, I think all of
those that all all of us that

1062
00:59:43,660 --> 00:59:46,570
that have had the opportunity to
be involved are are blessed by

1063
00:59:46,750 --> 00:59:46,840
it.

1064
00:59:46,930 --> 00:59:49,270
Absolutely, you just mentioned
Bruce and mentioned Carrie. I

1065
00:59:49,300 --> 00:59:52,450
mean, you've been around. I
mean, you probably been around

1066
00:59:52,450 --> 00:59:55,780
more legends and more the sport.
I mean, just can you know John

1067
00:59:55,900 --> 00:59:56,080
Smith

1068
00:59:56,140 --> 00:59:58,690
and I were born exactly the same
day. Really? Yeah, we're both

1069
00:59:59,020 --> 01:00:00,420
august 9, 19. 65.

1070
01:00:00,930 --> 01:00:01,470
Who's who's um,

1071
01:00:02,340 --> 01:00:04,050
he's aged a lot. Who's

1072
01:00:04,230 --> 01:00:08,460
your who's your the most
unforgettable, charismatic, just

1073
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,660
if if you were thinking just guy
that makes you laugh in USA

1074
01:00:12,780 --> 01:00:16,140
Wrestling. I mean, a competitor.
I'm curious about that. Yeah,

1075
01:00:16,290 --> 01:00:18,180
would that be? Just comes to
mind. I

1076
01:00:18,210 --> 01:00:21,590
mean, I I mean, I'm sure a lot
of people say Roy Selberg. No.

1077
01:00:22,130 --> 01:00:26,120
Yeah, and you know it's it's
it's it's it's fun because you

1078
01:00:26,150 --> 01:00:29,300
know there I have some stories
about John, and you know John's

1079
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:34,460
a really a dear friend, and and
John was awesome, yeah, and you

1080
01:00:34,490 --> 01:00:37,070
know there's a lot of a lot of
characters in our sport that

1081
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:41,050
that make you laugh, and you
know it's it's interesting

1082
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:43,720
because I think there's there's
times. I mean, like a guy like

1083
01:00:43,810 --> 01:00:47,140
Terry Steiner has like, and you
know this of being around him,

1084
01:00:47,260 --> 01:00:49,720
like a sense of humor that you
don't you don't expect. Never.

1085
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,960
And you know, Cody Bickley and I
always joke, and you know, I

1086
01:00:53,050 --> 01:00:56,290
call him Misha sometimes, and
like, why are you calling me

1087
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:59,680
Misha? And I said, well, because
Steiner, you have no idea what's

1088
01:00:59,740 --> 01:01:02,460
going on most of the time, just
show up and kick people's butts,

1089
01:01:02,850 --> 01:01:05,340
you know. And with our women's
program, because we joke because

1090
01:01:05,820 --> 01:01:09,900
obviously, it's it's a challenge
to you know manage that you know

1091
01:01:10,020 --> 01:01:13,980
such a diverse team, and and you
know these as I said earlier,

1092
01:01:14,010 --> 01:01:16,980
these coaches have to understand
the nuance of what their roles

1093
01:01:17,070 --> 01:01:19,380
are. So at times, it appears
like, yeah, what do you mean you

1094
01:01:19,410 --> 01:01:24,680
don't know where Helen Rolls is?
And and so it's you know, but

1095
01:01:24,770 --> 01:01:27,200
yeah, there's your question
about you know characters.

1096
01:01:27,260 --> 01:01:30,800
There's there's a lot of them.
Royce Elger's you know as good a

1097
01:01:30,860 --> 01:01:35,180
one-liner guy as there is, and
you know, but and also a dear

1098
01:01:35,300 --> 01:01:38,240
friend, and you know we've had a
lot of a lot of characters.

1099
01:01:38,450 --> 01:01:41,800
Obviously, I I think about Dave
Schultz and and being around

1100
01:01:41,830 --> 01:01:45,010
Dave a lot, I'll tell you the
the last thing Dave Schultz said

1101
01:01:45,130 --> 01:01:49,390
to me was at the so it would
have been in in the fall of '95.

1102
01:01:51,130 --> 01:01:54,100
We were at the Sunkist Open, and
Dave Dave wasn't wrestling; he

1103
01:01:54,130 --> 01:01:57,040
was he was coaching. And I came
in the I was our events director

1104
01:01:57,070 --> 01:02:00,370
at the time, and came into the
the arena, and he was standing

1105
01:02:00,460 --> 01:02:04,470
over on the side, eating a lemon
like like an orange, you know,

1106
01:02:04,530 --> 01:02:08,010
like peeling and eating a lemon
like an orange. And I went over

1107
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:11,370
to him and go, Schulte, what are
you doing? He put his arm around

1108
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:14,880
me. He said, Richie boy, when
life gives you a lemon, you eat

1109
01:02:16,950 --> 01:02:19,650
it. And that was the last thing.
That was the last thing Dave

1110
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:21,980
said to me. And you know
obviously we lost him then the

1111
01:02:21,980 --> 01:02:25,640
next year earlier a couple
months later but you know guys

1112
01:02:25,730 --> 01:02:29,030
like that are you know I don't
remember Dave's I mean he's

1113
01:02:29,180 --> 01:02:33,530
obviously a big sense of humor
and you know but you know just I

1114
01:02:33,590 --> 01:02:37,520
mean just a I mean I think a lot
about you know what the sport

1115
01:02:37,610 --> 01:02:42,190
lost that day when we lost Dave
and you know the impact he could

1116
01:02:42,190 --> 01:02:46,900
have had, and you know so you
know a lot of a lot of fun times

1117
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:48,250
and a lot of really tough times.

1118
01:02:48,700 --> 01:02:53,770
Was it was a what's a fun
chaotic overseas experience that

1119
01:02:53,830 --> 01:02:55,690
you went through? I mean, you've
been over so many, you've been

1120
01:02:55,780 --> 01:02:57,220
to so many of them. I mean, my
goodness.

1121
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,150
Well, I mean, there's. I mean,
when you travel, I mean,

1122
01:03:00,270 --> 01:03:02,940
certainly, you know, times have
especially the places that

1123
01:03:03,270 --> 01:03:06,000
wrestling seems to. Yeah, well,
the state-it's funny. The State

1124
01:03:06,030 --> 01:03:08,250
Department says to us all the
time that, hey, you know, we've

1125
01:03:08,340 --> 01:03:11,640
come to believe that wrestling's
popular wherever the U.S. isn't,

1126
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:16,830
and there's some truth to that,
by the way. But I mean, and and

1127
01:03:17,010 --> 01:03:20,610
times have changed, and and it's
you know, technology and

1128
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:23,780
efficiency of travels different
than back in the day, where you

1129
01:03:23,780 --> 01:03:26,420
know you'd show up somewhere and
pray somebody's there to pick

1130
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:29,870
you up, and you know a team
would sit around you know at the

1131
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:33,260
airport for half a day you know
trying to figure out who's

1132
01:03:33,290 --> 01:03:36,590
supposed to pick us up, and you
know a lot of those stories of

1133
01:03:37,190 --> 01:03:40,340
you know pretty Spartan
accommodations traveling, and

1134
01:03:40,460 --> 01:03:44,830
you know, just just you know,
people happen to to be

1135
01:03:45,100 --> 01:03:48,100
resourceful to figure out you
know how to how to get in

1136
01:03:48,220 --> 01:03:52,510
places. But I mean, I think I
think about you know like

1137
01:03:52,660 --> 01:03:56,050
memorable things, and obviously
I was blessed to be there when

1138
01:03:56,140 --> 01:03:58,900
Rulon beat Carlton. And if you
remember that game, I mean, I

1139
01:03:58,930 --> 01:04:02,340
was there. We you were yeah I
was in yeah I mean if you and

1140
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:05,490
you remember this right I mean
we we we took out the Russians

1141
01:04:05,610 --> 01:04:11,460
on that in that games right
Brandon beat Satya in Launy beat

1142
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:15,030
Goguish Li and Rulan you know
beat the King and that that day

1143
01:04:15,180 --> 01:04:19,020
by the way our international
federation had a had a reception

1144
01:04:19,110 --> 01:04:23,030
the day of the final and I was
invited to it, and I went to it.

1145
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,520
That they were celebrating
Corellin's fourth Olympic gold

1146
01:04:25,550 --> 01:04:28,310
medal. That the International
Federation had a had a had a

1147
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:31,010
reception. And I remember
telling Raffy Martinetti, who

1148
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:33,770
was the guy was telling me about
who his wife grabbed me, who

1149
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,980
went on to be the president of
UWW, who was actually the guy in

1150
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:41,860
charge when we we got kicked
out. I remember saying to him

1151
01:04:41,860 --> 01:04:45,670
and say, you know, I, I'm not
saying that that that Rulan can

1152
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,640
can beat him, but I'm telling
you, it's possible. I remember

1153
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:52,060
him saying, yeah, whatever, and
you know, but in that,

1154
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:55,570
ironically, in that match, if
you you remember it, right, the

1155
01:04:55,750 --> 01:04:57,790
referee originally calls for the
points for.

1156
01:05:01,020 --> 01:05:01,110
Oh, the the

1157
01:05:01,860 --> 01:05:08,100
referee calls calls for the for
the points for Carellan. If you

1158
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:10,920
mean Purdy, the the referee
called for the points for

1159
01:05:11,310 --> 01:05:15,420
Carellan, and I I was sitting
Matt's side. I mean not right

1160
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:19,410
Matt's side, but there was the
the the the Matt judge or Matt

1161
01:05:19,470 --> 01:05:22,370
Chairman was a guy named Etchin
Martinetti, who was the brother

1162
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:26,600
of Raffy Martinetti, who was in
charge of refereeing, who later

1163
01:05:26,660 --> 01:05:29,900
went on to be the president of
it. And I remember there being

1164
01:05:29,930 --> 01:05:32,420
this kind of like panic, like I
don't know if that's the right

1165
01:05:32,510 --> 01:05:35,960
call. And I remember Martinetti
like it was yesterday. Raffy

1166
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:38,630
yells, he goes Etchin, and
Etchin turned around. He goes,

1167
01:05:38,930 --> 01:05:41,320
look at the video. And when he
looked at the video the other

1168
01:05:41,410 --> 01:05:43,960
side, you clearly saw that
Corellin broke first. Yeah, and

1169
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:48,010
so I mean, I think about those
kinds of like, because you know

1170
01:05:48,700 --> 01:05:51,190
that if they would not have
fixed that, it wasn't getting

1171
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:55,240
fixed, no matter how obvious it
was later. That there's no way

1172
01:05:55,420 --> 01:05:57,940
Ruland Gardner's exactly they're
going to go back and say, "Oh

1173
01:05:58,030 --> 01:05:59,470
yeah, we messed that up. Yeah,

1174
01:05:59,770 --> 01:06:02,580
and so I mean I think about
things like that, or

1175
01:06:02,820 --> 01:06:06,330
opportunities like that. I think
about when when Kyle beat Sad

1176
01:06:06,390 --> 01:06:11,100
Juliev in Paris, and I mean I I
mean there's just I mean I'm

1177
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:15,420
such a blessed dude that you
know been around a lot of those

1178
01:06:15,690 --> 01:06:19,230
incredible moments, right?
Heartbreaking moments too. I

1179
01:06:19,260 --> 01:06:22,970
mean I think about you know
times where man, we just like I

1180
01:06:23,060 --> 01:06:26,450
mentioned earlier, things like
Kerry McCoy's match and or Kerry

1181
01:06:26,540 --> 01:06:29,900
Colat's scenario, like any of
those those three or four times

1182
01:06:29,990 --> 01:06:33,770
where right just doesn't seem
right that you know one guy can

1183
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:38,330
carry that kind of bad luck or
you know, and it's you know so

1184
01:06:38,510 --> 01:06:41,140
it's it's the I guess the beauty
of our sport. I mean, there's

1185
01:06:41,290 --> 01:06:45,670
just a lot of ups and a lot of
downs, and and you know, it's my

1186
01:06:45,790 --> 01:06:48,310
wife says this all the time, and
and I've been blessed that she

1187
01:06:48,700 --> 01:06:50,950
she's since she's retired, she's
traveling all over. We decided

1188
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:54,220
our kids' inheritance are going
to be invested in plane tickets

1189
01:06:54,250 --> 01:06:58,510
for Michelle Bender, but she
said, you know, Rich, one thing

1190
01:06:58,630 --> 01:07:01,080
I've come to learn that going to
these wrestling tournaments is

1191
01:07:01,170 --> 01:07:03,750
like going to weddings and
funerals, right? You have

1192
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:06,210
weddings and funerals in the
same event, and it's there's so

1193
01:07:06,300 --> 01:07:10,980
much truth to that, and it's you
know just a blessing to be

1194
01:07:11,190 --> 01:07:15,540
around the sport, and I mean
just the impact that it's had on

1195
01:07:16,020 --> 01:07:19,470
on my life and the life of
literally millions of people. I

1196
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,130
say this all the time that
anybody that's wrestled is

1197
01:07:22,220 --> 01:07:24,890
better for it. Period. Never
been an exception. Not one time.

1198
01:07:25,100 --> 01:07:29,360
Yeah. And you know, just just
just awesome to be involved, and

1199
01:07:29,390 --> 01:07:34,160
it's really really cool to see
the momentum that our sport has.

1200
01:07:34,340 --> 01:07:37,850
And you know, looking into this
next couple years with the you

1201
01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:40,840
know U 20 threes in the fall in
Vegas, and then next year's

1202
01:07:40,930 --> 01:07:44,680
World Championships and then the
games, man, there's there's a

1203
01:07:44,740 --> 01:07:48,070
lot of reasons to be really
bullish on our sport right now.

1204
01:07:48,370 --> 01:07:51,760
Absolutely, I mean the the the
stables are full, if you will,

1205
01:07:52,300 --> 01:07:56,110
in terms of you know talent. I
mean, look at this tournament

1206
01:07:56,170 --> 01:08:00,390
here, and you know you look at
our final acts and the age group

1207
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:05,310
success that we've had with with
all of our you know teams

1208
01:08:05,460 --> 01:08:10,020
recently, and I say our I mean
our country's teams and and the

1209
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:13,440
importance that you know kids
are putting on those teams

1210
01:08:13,650 --> 01:08:17,970
earlier than ever, and I think
bodes well for us.

1211
01:08:17,970 --> 01:08:20,070
Speaking of fortunate, we're
fortunate that of your

1212
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:22,910
leadership, Rich, and having
guys like yourself leading the

1213
01:08:22,940 --> 01:08:26,570
charge for us, and man, I
appreciate your time. Yeah, this

1214
01:08:26,570 --> 01:08:28,610
has been amazing. Yeah, I don't
know. I

1215
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:31,400
don't know what's going on here,
but we yeah we can continue.

1216
01:08:31,490 --> 01:08:32,900
We'll figure it out. No, yeah,
like so.

1217
01:08:33,139 --> 01:08:35,659
Yeah, we're going to continue
it. Yeah, we'll put it all in

1218
01:08:35,689 --> 01:08:38,059
one big episode. But yeah, we
got plenty of plenty of stories.

1219
01:08:38,239 --> 01:08:38,299
Yeah,

1220
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:40,749
Mike. I I mean, I'd be remiss if
I didn't say thank you to you,

1221
01:08:41,289 --> 01:08:44,049
and you talked a little bit
about you know stories and not

1222
01:08:44,199 --> 01:08:48,369
rich bender stories, but I mean
it's really important for us to

1223
01:08:48,429 --> 01:08:51,039
have this kind of intentional
investment in our history.

1224
01:08:51,309 --> 01:08:51,369
Yeah,

1225
01:08:51,970 --> 01:08:56,500
and man, it's it's cool to see
and man the impact that that

1226
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:59,890
you're having. Like I said, I
enjoy watching programs. Thank

1227
01:08:59,920 --> 01:09:03,210
you, and the impact that it's
having is significant, and

1228
01:09:03,300 --> 01:09:06,570
certainly your work in in
Tennessee as our state chairman,

1229
01:09:06,810 --> 01:09:06,960
and

1230
01:09:07,860 --> 01:09:10,170
you know I started like I just
can't get anybody to take it

1231
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:11,910
from me. Yeah, you shouldn't
have missed that

1232
01:09:11,970 --> 01:09:16,440
meeting, but you know it's it's
and and and I say this a lot

1233
01:09:16,530 --> 01:09:19,560
about you know and say it
hopefully say it enough to you

1234
01:09:19,620 --> 01:09:23,180
guys as our state leaders, is
that's the foundation of our

1235
01:09:23,270 --> 01:09:25,760
sport is the infrastructure. I
mean that it. I mean that

1236
01:09:25,820 --> 01:09:29,150
sport's great and it's you know
all by itself, but the

1237
01:09:29,300 --> 01:09:32,720
infrastructure that exists and
the 1000s of people like Mike

1238
01:09:32,810 --> 01:09:36,140
Hatcher that that devote
significant amounts of their

1239
01:09:36,290 --> 01:09:40,550
time to pay opportunities
forward, to entrench the sport,

1240
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:44,290
to raise its relevancy, it makes
a difference, and it's it's the

1241
01:09:44,380 --> 01:09:47,890
reason our sport's great. And
so, thank you for for what you

1242
01:09:47,980 --> 01:09:51,280
do. And man, I I mean you

1243
01:09:51,310 --> 01:09:53,980
can thank Dan Gable for that
because as soon as I got when I

1244
01:09:54,070 --> 01:09:56,980
got into coaching, he told me
specifically. He said, "Well,

1245
01:09:57,850 --> 01:09:59,470
you know, you got to get
involved in the USA wrestling

1246
01:09:59,500 --> 01:10:01,530
now." I was like, "Well, what do
you mean? He goes, "Well, he

1247
01:10:01,590 --> 01:10:04,170
just that's just you got to do
it. I was like, "I guess I'm

1248
01:10:04,290 --> 01:10:08,310
gonna start doing whatever
whatever they need. Yeah, I'll

1249
01:10:08,370 --> 01:10:09,240
tell you what, I, I, I, I

1250
01:10:09,779 --> 01:10:13,649
mean, there's no more more
influential people in our sports

1251
01:10:13,829 --> 01:10:17,639
history than Coach Gable and and
just you know being around him

1252
01:10:17,759 --> 01:10:20,429
and you know you're blessed to
have been touched by him and

1253
01:10:20,459 --> 01:10:22,979
he's the man and yeah he's the
man that's that's what.

1254
01:10:26,030 --> 01:10:29,180
When teams across the country
need custom apparel that looks

1255
01:10:29,270 --> 01:10:33,020
sharp, feels great, and shows
off team pride, they call Hatch

1256
01:10:33,590 --> 01:10:36,620
and Custom Community. From
scholastic programs to

1257
01:10:36,740 --> 01:10:40,430
collegiate athletics, and even
local businesses wanting branded

1258
01:10:40,460 --> 01:10:43,750
apparel that actually gets
noticed. Michael and his team

1259
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:48,940
deliver quality, creativity, and
service that goes full tilt. See

1260
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:52,180
what I did there? So, if they're
helping winning teams stand out,

1261
01:10:52,480 --> 01:10:56,140
why not yours? For custom
apparel with championship-level

1262
01:10:56,230 --> 01:10:58,480
results, go to
customcommunity.com.

1263
01:11:01,090 --> 01:11:04,440
All right. Well, we got we got
you know slightly interrupted.

1264
01:11:04,710 --> 01:11:09,000
Not bad though. Yeah, it's okay.
Listen, Fargo. Yeah, you know,

1265
01:11:09,150 --> 01:11:12,840
Groundhog Day. That's that's
pretty much it. You have a guy

1266
01:11:12,900 --> 01:11:15,180
like Rich Bender on here, and
you know, it's shoot. You know,

1267
01:11:15,270 --> 01:11:18,810
there's the stories. The we we
probably talk for shoot 12

1268
01:11:18,900 --> 01:11:20,600
hours. I got actually have to
coach. I have to be the state

1269
01:11:20,630 --> 01:11:23,270
chairman, and I have to wear
different hats here, and I can't

1270
01:11:23,270 --> 01:11:26,270
just do podcasts all the time.
So we piece it out together. I

1271
01:11:26,330 --> 01:11:26,750
think we're okay.

1272
01:11:27,110 --> 01:11:29,450
Yeah, well, I guess it gives me
some purpose to be in Fargo.

1273
01:11:30,740 --> 01:11:31,250
There you go. People

1274
01:11:31,310 --> 01:11:34,280
ask me, like, what do what do
you do in Fargo? I and I said,

1275
01:11:34,370 --> 01:11:37,220
well, you know, that's a good
question. I I think I walk

1276
01:11:37,370 --> 01:11:38,120
around thank people.

1277
01:11:38,239 --> 01:11:41,139
There you go. Well, there's
plenty of those to thank here

1278
01:11:41,709 --> 01:11:43,029
for their brothers here. Yeah, a
lot

1279
01:11:43,059 --> 01:11:44,649
of people to be thankful for for
sure.

1280
01:11:44,830 --> 01:11:46,600
Yeah, people are asking me,
"Well, you did use a podcast

1281
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:49,540
when you're in Fargo. I'm like,
"I'm gonna try, but understand,

1282
01:11:49,570 --> 01:11:51,520
I'm still the state chairman. I
still have 11 kids here that

1283
01:11:51,610 --> 01:11:54,250
wrestling, you know, in my club.
I probably need to attend to

1284
01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:57,100
them at some point in time. So,
you know, between sessions, you

1285
01:11:57,100 --> 01:11:58,510
know, I I probably pull some
off.

1286
01:11:58,570 --> 01:12:00,160
Well, I'll tell you, Mike,
that's what makes this

1287
01:12:00,250 --> 01:12:03,240
organization so great, you know
people like you that are given

1288
01:12:03,330 --> 01:12:09,150
so selfishly, selflessly, to to
the sport in you know wearing so

1289
01:12:09,210 --> 01:12:13,710
many hats here, and you know you
put 10, 15,000 people in in

1290
01:12:13,860 --> 01:12:15,690
Fargo for eight days. There's a
lot of work to be

1291
01:12:16,050 --> 01:12:18,150
done. Oh yeah, yeah, no doubt
about it, no doubt about it. I

1292
01:12:18,150 --> 01:12:20,010
know I know there's just enough.
I mean we have I think our

1293
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:22,370
delegation, we're getting better
every year. You know, we're

1294
01:12:22,790 --> 01:12:27,470
always hovering between the 95
and 105 participant between the

1295
01:12:27,470 --> 01:12:30,200
boys and the girls side
delegation here in Tennessee. So

1296
01:12:30,230 --> 01:12:30,980
it's getting better. Yeah,

1297
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:33,980
it's getting better. I mean,
we're we'd love to to bump over

1298
01:12:34,070 --> 01:12:37,340
10,000 entries. That that I'd
say that's kind of our goal. But

1299
01:12:37,580 --> 01:12:37,640
yeah,

1300
01:12:38,540 --> 01:12:41,680
you know, obviously the the
quality quality wrestling

1301
01:12:41,740 --> 01:12:44,140
opportunity is the most
important thing, and you know,

1302
01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:47,860
giving kids an opportunity to to
experience the sport at a at a

1303
01:12:47,950 --> 01:12:50,650
unique level, but most
importantly, change a lot of

1304
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:51,310
lives this week.

1305
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:55,120
Absolutely, yeah. No, I tell
everybody that this is you know

1306
01:12:55,150 --> 01:12:58,090
because obviously everybody and
parents, you know, coaches,

1307
01:12:58,150 --> 01:13:03,540
everybody they play that cost
and the ROI factor in in which

1308
01:13:03,660 --> 01:13:06,450
events to go to, and all of them
look at well, I'm not. We're not

1309
01:13:06,480 --> 01:13:08,340
spending that kind of money to
go to Fargo, North Dakota, and

1310
01:13:08,430 --> 01:13:11,400
the chance of them going zero
and two. And I tell them

1311
01:13:11,670 --> 01:13:16,800
consistently, you know that. And
I've been coaching for 30. I'm

1312
01:13:16,830 --> 01:13:19,620
going up 35 years. I think it
was my first wrestling club. I I

1313
01:13:19,710 --> 01:13:24,110
started running back at Iowa,
back in the day, this is this is

1314
01:13:24,110 --> 01:13:28,370
the one wrestling event that
where I see a significant change

1315
01:13:28,670 --> 01:13:31,280
in kids when they go and
participate, and this goes for

1316
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:35,450
kids that come here and go four
and two, or they they all

1317
01:13:35,480 --> 01:13:38,120
American we win it, or even the
kids that come here and

1318
01:13:38,180 --> 01:13:40,250
literally just they don't even
make it out the first period

1319
01:13:40,730 --> 01:13:42,730
four matches they go one four
and literally wrestle four

1320
01:13:42,790 --> 01:13:45,370
periods wrestling, just because
of the training and the

1321
01:13:45,370 --> 01:13:48,280
preparation that it takes to
come here and to get ready to go

1322
01:13:49,210 --> 01:13:51,880
at a tournament in mid July, and
then just the whole Fargo

1323
01:13:51,940 --> 01:13:54,940
experience in general. When they
do it, when they do that, and

1324
01:13:54,940 --> 01:13:57,940
they complete that process, they
come here, they compete, they

1325
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,510
get to know kids from the from
their state, other states,

1326
01:14:00,660 --> 01:14:04,380
possibly from the black market,
and they come back literally a

1327
01:14:04,380 --> 01:14:06,960
whole different wrestler. Yeah,
and this is that. This is the

1328
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:08,730
one. I mean, there's don't get
me wrong. There's great events

1329
01:14:08,790 --> 01:14:10,710
out there, and there's great
tournaments out there. But this

1330
01:14:10,740 --> 01:14:13,380
is the one where I see like
literally a significant change

1331
01:14:13,620 --> 01:14:15,720
in kids when they go through the
whole Fargo experience.

1332
01:14:15,930 --> 01:14:18,480
I agree totally. You know, I
mean, it's in. It's it's really

1333
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:22,070
woven into the culture of
certainly USA Wrestling. I mean,

1334
01:14:22,130 --> 01:14:25,340
it's been the marquee event for
us for, you know, 50 years

1335
01:14:25,490 --> 01:14:30,530
probably, or almost 50 years.
And yeah, it it for sure changes

1336
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:34,070
lives. And I mean, there's a lot
of reasons why. I mean, part of

1337
01:14:35,450 --> 01:14:37,850
it is the journey here, and you
know, part of it is the the bond

1338
01:14:38,060 --> 01:14:40,870
that that these kids develop
with their coaches and their and

1339
01:14:40,870 --> 01:14:46,810
their teammates, and man, you
know just the the the the awe

1340
01:14:47,440 --> 01:14:50,110
that you feel when you walk in
this building for the first time

1341
01:14:50,170 --> 01:14:55,120
and see 30 mats, and and just
the spectacle that this event

1342
01:14:55,300 --> 01:14:59,590
is, and then you think about how
difficult it is to to compete

1343
01:14:59,860 --> 01:15:05,400
and. And to, I mean, I think it
wasn't long ago there was a

1344
01:15:05,490 --> 01:15:09,390
weight class that had 21
undefeated state champs in it,

1345
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:12,330
and you know, so I mean,
obviously, it's it's wrestling

1346
01:15:12,480 --> 01:15:16,230
at the very highest level in our
country at this age group, but

1347
01:15:16,770 --> 01:15:19,860
you know, it's a you know
accumulation of several things

1348
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:23,540
that that changed his lives, and
as I said yesterday, I mean

1349
01:15:23,870 --> 01:15:26,510
anybody that's ever participated
in wrestling's better for it.

1350
01:15:26,510 --> 01:15:29,960
Period. Never been an exception,
and I'd say the same thing about

1351
01:15:31,010 --> 01:15:35,300
coming to Fargo and competing in
junior nationals. And you know,

1352
01:15:35,390 --> 01:15:39,980
you I mean, there's all kinds of
data around how you know

1353
01:15:40,070 --> 01:15:45,820
participation in this event
translates into success, you

1354
01:15:45,850 --> 01:15:48,970
know, at the international
level. But you know, certainly,

1355
01:15:49,300 --> 01:15:52,030
you know, at the Division One
level, I mean, I think Jason

1356
01:15:52,090 --> 01:15:55,240
Bryant does a really good job of
tracking that. And I mean, the

1357
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:59,650
percentages of NCAA Division One
champs that participate in this

1358
01:15:59,770 --> 01:16:03,450
event is very high. Yeah, and so
you know there's it's it's you

1359
01:16:03,480 --> 01:16:07,650
know it's probably one of our
first indicators of of you know

1360
01:16:08,010 --> 01:16:13,590
kind of the future is is here
and you know but yeah it's it's

1361
01:16:13,590 --> 01:16:16,110
it's it's an awesome event. I
think about you know the

1362
01:16:16,230 --> 01:16:20,330
referees and I think about the
coaches that give up a big part

1363
01:16:20,360 --> 01:16:23,930
of their summer, and other
volunteers that give a big part

1364
01:16:23,930 --> 01:16:28,760
of their summer to to to provide
this opportunity, and it's you

1365
01:16:28,790 --> 01:16:33,650
know it's always the same. You
know, people go home and say,

1366
01:16:33,740 --> 01:16:34,280
"Man, it was worth

1367
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:34,850
it,

1368
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:39,200
and yeah, it's expensive and
something certainly we we we are

1369
01:16:39,290 --> 01:16:43,330
aware of. And one of the
beauties of our sport is that

1370
01:16:43,450 --> 01:16:48,100
you know cost usually doesn't
prevent participation, and you

1371
01:16:48,130 --> 01:16:51,880
know obviously you know there is
a lot of expense associated with

1372
01:16:52,090 --> 01:16:56,950
participating in this event, but
you know it's there's value

1373
01:16:57,040 --> 01:16:57,370
there too.

1374
01:16:57,399 --> 01:17:00,119
Oh yeah, no, there is. There's
serious value, and and like I

1375
01:17:00,119 --> 01:17:02,099
said, I wouldn't be such a
strong advocate, obviously, if I

1376
01:17:02,879 --> 01:17:06,119
not only amongst the kids in the
state of Tennessee, but also

1377
01:17:06,269 --> 01:17:08,549
obviously my own my own club,
and and you know, I mean, I'm

1378
01:17:08,639 --> 01:17:11,639
just I'm proud of our state for
the numbers of competitors that

1379
01:17:11,639 --> 01:17:14,039
we have consistently every year.
I know when I first started

1380
01:17:14,039 --> 01:17:17,789
coming out here, probably about
1520 years ago, I mean, from

1381
01:17:17,849 --> 01:17:21,379
Tennessee, we literally have
maybe 13 to 15 kids, you know,

1382
01:17:21,529 --> 01:17:23,449
so it was the number's really
low, and now we're hovering

1383
01:17:23,509 --> 01:17:25,549
around that that three digit
mark, so it's really good. And

1384
01:17:25,909 --> 01:17:28,519
we have we had three three in
the Greco Finals last night,

1385
01:17:28,519 --> 01:17:32,299
which was really quick. We had
two champs, champ won the titles

1386
01:17:32,329 --> 01:17:34,009
at the same time, which was
really cool. Shout out to Chase

1387
01:17:34,039 --> 01:17:37,879
Smith and Logan Rasky. Yeah, two
really really good kids. They

1388
01:17:37,939 --> 01:17:40,989
were side by side in the 16 U
and Junior Matt, and then later

1389
01:17:41,169 --> 01:17:44,619
on, Maddox High is in the finals
against Ivanov's. That's

1390
01:17:44,829 --> 01:17:46,689
awesome. Yeah, so and so getting
those

1391
01:17:46,779 --> 01:17:48,579
kids from Cleveland. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah.

1392
01:17:48,699 --> 01:17:50,379
Two of them are from Cleveland.
Oh, actually, yeah, yep. Two of

1393
01:17:50,379 --> 01:17:53,079
them are Cleveland. Maddox High
is from Cleveland, and Gordon

1394
01:17:53,259 --> 01:17:53,409
Connell.

1395
01:17:53,529 --> 01:17:54,939
Gordon Connell still around
Cleveland.

1396
01:17:55,659 --> 01:17:57,489
Gordon Connell still in
Chattanooga. Yep, he's still

1397
01:17:57,759 --> 01:17:59,919
he's still around. Gordon
Connell's he's awesome.

1398
01:18:00,100 --> 01:18:01,980
Yeah, he's good, good, good man.

1399
01:18:02,580 --> 01:18:04,860
Well, we're talking experiences.
I mean, obviously the Fargo

1400
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:09,360
experience, but I mean, if
there's anyone that's had just

1401
01:18:09,390 --> 01:18:12,930
experiences worldwide, it's most
certainly our executive

1402
01:18:12,990 --> 01:18:15,720
director. As far as just
different places that you

1403
01:18:15,780 --> 01:18:18,060
travel, different competitions
that you've seen, different

1404
01:18:18,450 --> 01:18:21,440
crazy things, we are getting
into some of them on the ride

1405
01:18:21,500 --> 01:18:26,180
over here, but man, man, what
what what type of experiences

1406
01:18:26,300 --> 01:18:29,150
your your position brings to you
is something else, huh?

1407
01:18:29,329 --> 01:18:32,209
Yeah, and I said this yesterday
that you know we travel.

1408
01:18:32,929 --> 01:18:35,749
Obviously, the sport takes us
all over the world, and man, I

1409
01:18:36,079 --> 01:18:40,369
personally been blessed beyond
measure to you know for an

1410
01:18:40,369 --> 01:18:43,359
average at best high school
wrestler to be able to make a

1411
01:18:43,479 --> 01:18:46,989
career and you know life around
this sport has been man a

1412
01:18:47,019 --> 01:18:50,259
blessing that I don't take for
granted but been been able to

1413
01:18:50,349 --> 01:18:53,229
travel the world and the State
Department says as I said

1414
01:18:53,319 --> 01:18:55,899
yesterday that wrestling's
popular wherever the U.S. isn't

1415
01:18:56,859 --> 01:18:59,829
and you know so I think about
those experiences like you know

1416
01:18:59,829 --> 01:19:03,509
I've been to Iran four times,
and you know, was there for the

1417
01:19:03,539 --> 01:19:09,149
the the we were the first sports
team to travel in Iran into Iran

1418
01:19:09,239 --> 01:19:11,849
from the U.S. after the
revolution. That was the Tacti

1419
01:19:11,939 --> 01:19:17,399
Cup just before the the World
Championships in 97, I believe

1420
01:19:17,429 --> 01:19:21,499
that was, and you know, so I was
on the team, or I was part of

1421
01:19:21,529 --> 01:19:26,119
the delegation going to to the
world championships there, and

1422
01:19:26,539 --> 01:19:31,039
the thing that struck me about
travel to Iran is, I mean,

1423
01:19:31,159 --> 01:19:34,399
wrestling is so important to
their culture and and so

1424
01:19:34,579 --> 01:19:39,679
important to you know their
entire country that you know

1425
01:19:39,679 --> 01:19:44,709
American wrestlers tend to be
heroes there, and and it's I

1426
01:19:44,739 --> 01:19:49,299
mean I'll never forget walking
into that arena in Tehran, and

1427
01:19:49,359 --> 01:19:53,649
it was amazing because I mean
you couldn't there was 18 19,000

1428
01:19:53,739 --> 01:19:59,049
seats in this arena, and there
was it was amazing because you

1429
01:19:59,139 --> 01:20:02,309
walk in and you couldn't. Even
really get into your seats an

1430
01:20:02,549 --> 01:20:06,269
hour before, and the the
concourses were full, and yet

1431
01:20:06,329 --> 01:20:08,669
the seats were all full. And I'm
like, man, where are these

1432
01:20:08,729 --> 01:20:13,739
people going to go? And they
blew this whistle, and every

1433
01:20:14,039 --> 01:20:17,519
aisle filled up. I mean, people
just went. So it's just a mass

1434
01:20:17,639 --> 01:20:20,659
of humanity. I mean, there's
fire marshal would have been

1435
01:20:20,749 --> 01:20:24,049
losing their would have lost
their mind there, but and it

1436
01:20:24,139 --> 01:20:31,069
just I mean the mat was wrapped
with you know carpets you know

1437
01:20:31,159 --> 01:20:37,159
like actual you know Persian
carpets and I mean it was a

1438
01:20:37,249 --> 01:20:42,099
spectacle and but and it was you
know I said, talked. We talked a

1439
01:20:42,099 --> 01:20:46,629
little bit about a World Cup
that we did in Kermanshaw, but I

1440
01:20:46,659 --> 01:20:48,189
mean, they were supportive of
our team.

1441
01:20:48,429 --> 01:20:48,489
Yeah,

1442
01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:52,210
and I think it it speaks to you
know the the the strength of

1443
01:20:52,360 --> 01:20:57,250
wrestling to be kind of this
ambassador for humanity. And I

1444
01:20:57,310 --> 01:20:58,630
know that sounds a little
cliche,

1445
01:20:59,080 --> 01:20:59,140
yeah,

1446
01:20:59,559 --> 01:21:02,549
but it's true. And I've seen it
in Russia. I've seen it in Iran.

1447
01:21:02,639 --> 01:21:06,389
I've seen it in Turkey, and I
mean, where the sport has a

1448
01:21:06,509 --> 01:21:09,959
unique way of bringing people to
get people together. I mean,

1449
01:21:10,049 --> 01:21:12,539
obviously, with Iran, we
couldn't be any further apart

1450
01:21:12,659 --> 01:21:15,299
from our political views in
terms of certainly our

1451
01:21:15,389 --> 01:21:19,229
governments, like we're at war
with them now. But you know, we

1452
01:21:19,379 --> 01:21:21,409
have a strong relationship with
the Iranian Wrestling

1453
01:21:21,469 --> 01:21:25,759
Federation. I mean, it's it's
you know they were in in Iowa

1454
01:21:25,909 --> 01:21:28,789
not long ago, and you know we're
working hard for them to come to

1455
01:21:28,879 --> 01:21:31,399
the U 20 3s. I think I think
we're going to get that done,

1456
01:21:31,609 --> 01:21:34,939
and certainly the World
Championships and and in the

1457
01:21:35,059 --> 01:21:38,149
Olympic Games. But I mean, Iran
needs to be in the World

1458
01:21:38,179 --> 01:21:41,289
Championships, right? I mean,
there there there there are you

1459
01:21:41,319 --> 01:21:44,109
know one of our fiercest
competitors, and and you know

1460
01:21:44,259 --> 01:21:47,559
wrestling in their country is so
important. So, yeah, traveling

1461
01:21:47,589 --> 01:21:51,969
to places like that and and
seeing how the sport breaks

1462
01:21:52,059 --> 01:21:55,899
down, you know those barriers,
and I mean I remember the first

1463
01:21:55,899 --> 01:21:59,829
time was really nervous about
man, this is going to be this is

1464
01:21:59,889 --> 01:22:03,599
going to be okay, and it was. I
mean, never once have I been

1465
01:22:03,749 --> 01:22:06,959
there and not felt comfortable
or felt threatened, and you

1466
01:22:06,989 --> 01:22:10,049
know, just if anything, I was
hanging around Jordan Burrows

1467
01:22:10,169 --> 01:22:13,799
over there. It's like hanging
around, you know, I don't know,

1468
01:22:14,999 --> 01:22:17,999
Babe Ruth or somebody or
baseball fans, and just I mean,

1469
01:22:18,029 --> 01:22:20,659
they just mob them. But

1470
01:22:21,199 --> 01:22:23,809
it was funny because when when
Metcalf, when I had him on my

1471
01:22:23,929 --> 01:22:26,419
podcast, he was talking about
them. I can see that the first

1472
01:22:26,419 --> 01:22:29,299
time, or he was trying. He was
over there with Jordan, and he's

1473
01:22:29,929 --> 01:22:33,979
he said this Iranian fan just
went up and was just crazy. He's

1474
01:22:34,039 --> 01:22:38,389
like, oh, and he he he wanted
Jordan's Gatorade bottle or his

1475
01:22:38,509 --> 01:22:41,259
Gatorade chicken, and so Jordan
gave it to him, and the guy

1476
01:22:41,439 --> 01:22:45,789
grabbed it and started dumping
it all over himself. And they

1477
01:22:45,849 --> 01:22:47,859
were just chanting the whole
time for him. It's just like

1478
01:22:47,889 --> 01:22:49,089
he's like Michael Jordan over
there.

1479
01:22:49,329 --> 01:22:53,889
Yeah, I mean it's and and and
they take our our participation

1480
01:22:54,039 --> 01:22:56,769
seriously there. I mean they
they've always been you know

1481
01:22:56,889 --> 01:22:59,889
great security details around
us, and you know not to to

1482
01:23:00,459 --> 01:23:03,629
necessarily keep us safe from
someone trying to do harm, but

1483
01:23:03,689 --> 01:23:09,209
just being mobbed. And but yeah,
I mean it's it's there's been

1484
01:23:09,299 --> 01:23:11,429
some some great experiences like
that. And

1485
01:23:12,629 --> 01:23:14,339
you were talking about that
World Cup and about about the

1486
01:23:14,549 --> 01:23:16,469
arena filling up. That was
pretty wild. Yeah,

1487
01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:22,790
yeah. So we were in Kermanshaw
for the the World Cup and we

1488
01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:27,680
were loaded we had a we had a
great team and and it was you

1489
01:23:27,710 --> 01:23:31,640
know most people thought it was
going to come down to Iran and

1490
01:23:31,730 --> 01:23:36,860
Russia or Iran and and the U S
for the for the finals and and

1491
01:23:36,890 --> 01:23:40,960
it did but prior to that I mean
it was home ice for us every

1492
01:23:41,050 --> 01:23:45,190
match with Georgia and Russia. I
mean, the Iranians were cheering

1493
01:23:45,370 --> 01:23:50,590
really, really, really strongly
for for the U.S. In fact, I

1494
01:23:50,710 --> 01:23:53,680
remember our very first match;
they had to stop the

1495
01:23:53,830 --> 01:23:56,770
introduction because they were
you know we're doing face-offs

1496
01:23:56,920 --> 01:24:01,230
and and they had to stop the
introduction because the entire

1497
01:24:01,440 --> 01:24:05,910
arena was just going crazy,
yelling Jordan, Jordan, Jordan,

1498
01:24:07,020 --> 01:24:12,270
and then you know the fun thing
about that that World Cup was we

1499
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:18,720
got to the final, we got to the
final with with Iran and and had

1500
01:24:18,780 --> 01:24:22,790
a slow start. First, we lost the
first four, and thought, man,

1501
01:24:22,850 --> 01:24:25,370
this match is going to get away
from us. And then you know the

1502
01:24:25,490 --> 01:24:30,830
cavalry came, and I mean, I mean
David Taylor, you know,

1503
01:24:31,310 --> 01:24:35,480
absolutely broke Yasdani, and
that was incredible. And you

1504
01:24:35,480 --> 01:24:39,590
know they carried him off as if
I mean he he thought he was

1505
01:24:39,710 --> 01:24:43,150
dying. I think he felt his lungs
at a different level than he's

1506
01:24:43,270 --> 01:24:47,800
ever felt, and probably hasn't
felt since. But then it came,

1507
01:24:47,950 --> 01:24:50,680
you know, Kyle won, and then it
came down to the heavyweight

1508
01:24:50,740 --> 01:24:55,990
match. You know, if we won, if I
mean, we if we would win the

1509
01:24:56,110 --> 01:24:59,500
match, it would have been five
five. But because David pinned

1510
01:24:59,590 --> 01:25:02,100
Yazdan. We were gonna we were
gonna win.

1511
01:25:02,369 --> 01:25:02,429
Yeah,

1512
01:25:02,940 --> 01:25:05,910
and he came up a little short,
but it was man such a such a

1513
01:25:05,970 --> 01:25:07,080
great experience. Was that was

1514
01:25:07,079 --> 01:25:10,049
that probably like like a
craziest wrestling environment

1515
01:25:10,049 --> 01:25:10,529
you've ever been in?

1516
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:15,450
Well, I mean those environments
in Iran, yeah, the the four

1517
01:25:15,540 --> 01:25:19,440
times probably as crazy as of
environment that I've ever

1518
01:25:19,890 --> 01:25:25,070
experienced. But man, when when
Kyle beat Sagilayev in Paris,

1519
01:25:25,220 --> 01:25:26,090
that was pretty cool.

1520
01:25:26,389 --> 01:25:26,449
Yeah,

1521
01:25:27,050 --> 01:25:29,810
and I mean, there's been a lot
of times that you know Olympic

1522
01:25:29,900 --> 01:25:34,430
Games when you know Roulan beat
Corellin, and I mean some pretty

1523
01:25:34,490 --> 01:25:39,260
electric venues. But yeah, I
mean it's it's a it's a

1524
01:25:39,440 --> 01:25:45,670
different environment when it's
USA. I was blessed this this

1525
01:25:46,180 --> 01:25:48,910
spring to go to the Winter
Olympics for the first time, and

1526
01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:51,910
I serve on the board of the U.S.
Olympic Committee, and and our

1527
01:25:52,030 --> 01:25:55,630
board was was brought to the to
the Olympic Games in Milan, and

1528
01:25:55,690 --> 01:25:58,840
the first Winter Games I've ever
been to, and got to experience

1529
01:25:58,900 --> 01:26:03,450
the gold medal game with with
Canada, and it was it was

1530
01:26:03,540 --> 01:26:06,840
electric too, but different. I
mean, it's just different from

1531
01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:11,010
from. I mean, obviously, you
know that. I mean, it was a

1532
01:26:11,130 --> 01:26:15,720
storybook with with with Kyle
and Sagilayev in Paris, right?

1533
01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:19,830
It came down to last mansion,
and you know to beat Russia and

1534
01:26:20,100 --> 01:26:24,800
and to win was, was absolutely,
you know, electric, and to be

1535
01:26:25,010 --> 01:26:28,700
around Kyle's dad and John
Bartis and and others, and just,

1536
01:26:29,150 --> 01:26:33,740
you know, totally, like, losing
it really. And I I remember that

1537
01:26:33,830 --> 01:26:38,960
that big celebration, and and I,
I I mean I'm jumping on

1538
01:26:39,050 --> 01:26:44,860
everybody and and I start
crying, and and I'm I kind of

1539
01:26:44,980 --> 01:26:47,590
realize that I'm like on
somebody's chest, and they're

1540
01:26:48,040 --> 01:26:51,340
patting my head, and I'm I'm
bawling like a baby when Kyle

1541
01:26:51,490 --> 01:26:54,550
won, and I look up, and it's the
president of the international

1542
01:26:54,610 --> 01:26:58,660
wrestling, Nanad Lalik, just
patting me on the head like a

1543
01:26:58,990 --> 01:27:02,850
you know little little kid, but
it was man, it's it was it was

1544
01:27:02,910 --> 01:27:07,830
emotional and and cool and just
happy for for everyone,

1545
01:27:07,890 --> 01:27:10,470
including you know like our
state chapters and those people

1546
01:27:10,530 --> 01:27:13,560
that invest in in the
organization because that's

1547
01:27:13,860 --> 01:27:18,060
that's their team and you know
obviously it's it's awesome to

1548
01:27:18,150 --> 01:27:23,900
see athletes win and and achieve
crazy things like that, but

1549
01:27:24,590 --> 01:27:25,580
yeah, the support is awesome.

1550
01:27:25,820 --> 01:27:31,250
Yeah, what's a what's a crazy
like overseas story that might

1551
01:27:31,250 --> 01:27:33,890
have been? I don't know some
crazy travel or some crazy just

1552
01:27:34,130 --> 01:27:37,760
just it was just a bizarre turn
of events.

1553
01:27:38,060 --> 01:27:43,690
Well, we we went to this would
have been in 1997 or no no 90

1554
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:53,740
yeah 97 I said 97 was was in
Tehran so it would have been man

1555
01:27:54,490 --> 01:27:59,470
I'm I'm I'm missing the year
Lescuche's one in 97 I believe

1556
01:27:59,920 --> 01:28:05,310
so I might have my years mixed
up a little bit there, but yeah,

1557
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:05,460
he

1558
01:28:05,790 --> 01:28:07,650
was 97. Yeah, yeah. So so we

1559
01:28:07,770 --> 01:28:12,720
were so we're going to
Krasnyarsk for the World

1560
01:28:12,780 --> 01:28:17,610
Championships, and when you go
to back in the day when you were

1561
01:28:17,910 --> 01:28:21,590
when you went anywhere in
Russia, you would fly into the

1562
01:28:21,590 --> 01:28:23,780
to the major air or their you
know their international

1563
01:28:23,870 --> 01:28:27,920
airport, and then you'd have to
like spend a day in Moscow, and

1564
01:28:27,950 --> 01:28:32,360
then fly out like at two in the
morning to you know at another

1565
01:28:32,480 --> 01:28:35,270
airport to wherever you're
going. In this case, we're going

1566
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:40,780
to to Krasnya, Krasair, and you
get to the airport, and it's you

1567
01:28:40,780 --> 01:28:44,560
know midnight. Your flight's at
two, and the airport is packed,

1568
01:28:44,740 --> 01:28:51,550
like packed, packed. And you
know I am in Russia. Like lines

1569
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:54,310
don't mean the same thing as
lines do in the United States.

1570
01:28:54,310 --> 01:28:58,210
So people just and you know so
you you go through this

1571
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:05,280
gauntlet, and you know it's it's
an hour to get your ticket, get

1572
01:29:05,340 --> 01:29:08,280
your bag checked, knowing that
there's probably little or no

1573
01:29:08,430 --> 01:29:11,130
chance I'm ever seeing my bag
again, because this place is

1574
01:29:11,340 --> 01:29:17,880
total chaos. And you get to the
very last part of the of this

1575
01:29:18,090 --> 01:29:22,340
journey to get on your plane,
and there's a magnetometer, and

1576
01:29:22,460 --> 01:29:25,190
I'm thinking they're putting
people through this

1577
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:29,660
magnetometer. Like people are
getting on with huge like

1578
01:29:30,290 --> 01:29:34,310
backpacks with chickens, and I
mean it's crazy. And they're you

1579
01:29:34,340 --> 01:29:37,100
know walking through the
magnetometer, and they're just

1580
01:29:37,160 --> 01:29:39,710
you know people just walking,
and you walk out on the tarmac

1581
01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:44,980
to To go in the back belly of
this big old plane, and and so

1582
01:29:45,580 --> 01:29:48,700
I'm I'm there, and all I have is
my briefcase because all my bags

1583
01:29:48,850 --> 01:29:52,060
checked, and they send me
through the mag timer, and it

1584
01:29:52,090 --> 01:29:55,840
goes off. Like oh, they stop,
and they made me stop, and and I

1585
01:29:55,900 --> 01:30:00,660
had to go sit like in this chair
by the, and I'm watching. These

1586
01:30:01,050 --> 01:30:03,570
Russians are going through this
thing. Like, I mean, they're

1587
01:30:03,900 --> 01:30:07,020
carrying rifles and stuff,
right? I mean, yet I got a like

1588
01:30:07,230 --> 01:30:09,480
a briefcase with me, and they're
making me sit in the chair.

1589
01:30:09,570 --> 01:30:12,660
Well, right, it was a it was a
deal. They said you have to go

1590
01:30:12,780 --> 01:30:16,740
back out and pay for your bag,
and I said I'm not going back

1591
01:30:16,890 --> 01:30:19,230
out to pay for my bag. You have
my bag. Yeah, like I'm not.

1592
01:30:19,710 --> 01:30:23,210
There's no way because I'm
missing this flight, and and so

1593
01:30:23,270 --> 01:30:25,940
I look, and here comes Jim
Shear, who is the CEO at the

1594
01:30:26,030 --> 01:30:29,720
time, and you know Jim Jim jokes
about this every now and then

1595
01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:32,180
when we talk about it. But he
comes, and I'm I'm sitting there

1596
01:30:32,270 --> 01:30:36,470
watching him, and he's got the
same briefcase I have, right?

1597
01:30:36,470 --> 01:30:40,630
And he comes, they make him,
they they they tell them to go

1598
01:30:41,290 --> 01:30:45,400
stand over by me, and I get up
and I said, "Oh, can I go? Go,

1599
01:30:45,550 --> 01:30:49,990
and they so they let me go, and
so Jim's there, and I run out

1600
01:30:50,050 --> 01:30:53,560
and you know get on the plane
and and thinking, man, I'm

1601
01:30:53,620 --> 01:30:56,650
probably getting fired now
because I mean, there's this

1602
01:30:56,770 --> 01:30:58,810
unwritten rule when you're
overseas, it's every man for

1603
01:30:58,810 --> 01:31:03,870
himself. So, but you know, we're
getting ready to to to close up,

1604
01:31:03,990 --> 01:31:08,220
and I see Jim running out across
the tarmac. So, he got through.

1605
01:31:08,550 --> 01:31:11,520
He had to. He actually went back
out and paid him like 50 bucks

1606
01:31:11,580 --> 01:31:15,240
for his bag. Really, but I mean,
there's. I mean, that's not

1607
01:31:15,330 --> 01:31:17,880
really a wrestling story, but
it's you know, that's the kind

1608
01:31:17,910 --> 01:31:21,710
of experiences and travel that I
mean, our athletes deal with

1609
01:31:21,770 --> 01:31:26,090
that kind of stuff still. You
know, it's better now, but you

1610
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:28,730
know, back in the day, you can
talk to guys like Royce Elder,

1611
01:31:28,910 --> 01:31:32,960
and he'll tell you, you know,
some really crazy stories, and

1612
01:31:33,440 --> 01:31:36,980
and you know, maybe one of the
best storytellers we've got

1613
01:31:37,130 --> 01:31:38,180
around. So, oh, he's

1614
01:31:38,569 --> 01:31:41,709
yeah, he's the first one. Yeah,
I told you yes. I like to tease

1615
01:31:41,889 --> 01:31:42,639
him. You know,

1616
01:31:42,850 --> 01:31:46,420
Royce has been one of my good
buddies since I started USA

1617
01:31:46,480 --> 01:31:48,880
Wrestling, and yeah, we were
running back in the day dual

1618
01:31:48,940 --> 01:31:51,970
meets. You know, we'd have we'd
host the World Cup, and then

1619
01:31:52,060 --> 01:31:56,140
we'd host dual meets with with
all the teams. And Royce was my

1620
01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:59,080
number one guy to wrestle. I
mean, he would say yes to every

1621
01:31:59,290 --> 01:32:03,300
dual meet, any place, any time.
So we got really close because I

1622
01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:05,940
knew I could always call on him,
and obviously, really, really

1623
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:10,680
good wrestler, and and you know
one of the best. And one one day

1624
01:32:10,770 --> 01:32:12,810
we were we were joking around,
or you know

1625
01:32:13,319 --> 01:32:13,409
he's

1626
01:32:13,830 --> 01:32:16,890
cracking on everybody, and and I
put my arm around. I go, Royce,

1627
01:32:16,980 --> 01:32:20,310
you know, I've known you for a
long time, and I just realized

1628
01:32:20,340 --> 01:32:24,170
that that we do have something
in common, and he kind of looked

1629
01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:26,750
at me and goes, "What, what do
what do we got in common?

1630
01:32:27,740 --> 01:32:30,200
Because he always thinks it's
about being a farm kid. I'm from

1631
01:32:30,230 --> 01:32:32,930
a small farming community, and I
said, "What do you what do you

1632
01:32:33,260 --> 01:32:35,750
mean? What do we got in common?
I said, "I just realized that

1633
01:32:35,810 --> 01:32:40,510
you and I have won exactly the
same number of world titles. So

1634
01:32:40,840 --> 01:32:44,800
yo, he'll be po'd when he hears
me say that because it's the one

1635
01:32:44,860 --> 01:32:47,530
thing I think that I can get him
on because usually it's the

1636
01:32:47,740 --> 01:32:48,850
other way, right? He's

1637
01:32:49,389 --> 01:32:51,189
quick witted. You don't want to
battle with that.

1638
01:32:51,369 --> 01:32:53,889
But you know, it's guys like
Royce Elder make our sport fun,

1639
01:32:54,519 --> 01:32:57,819
and you know, it's great to have
him still engaged and around.

1640
01:32:57,849 --> 01:33:00,159
And you know, I think you know,
part of our culture that's

1641
01:33:00,219 --> 01:33:03,539
really important. Is athletes
like that giving back, and you

1642
01:33:03,539 --> 01:33:06,269
know you can walk out here in
the arena and see, you know,

1643
01:33:06,389 --> 01:33:10,409
world team members, Olympians,
and you know those that have you

1644
01:33:10,409 --> 01:33:13,259
know been blessed by the sport
themselves give back. I mean

1645
01:33:13,289 --> 01:33:17,249
yourself included, and you know
that's that's a you know I don't

1646
01:33:17,279 --> 01:33:20,419
know that we can say that we're
the only sport that does that

1647
01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:22,459
because I think that you know
probably that exists in some

1648
01:33:22,519 --> 01:33:25,039
other sports, but man,
wrestling-it's certainly a

1649
01:33:25,129 --> 01:33:26,719
foundational strength of ours.

1650
01:33:27,319 --> 01:33:30,649
That's that's really cool. Yeah,
no, I agree. I agree. But moving

1651
01:33:30,709 --> 01:33:32,569
forward, I mean, you've been at
you've been at it for a while.

1652
01:33:33,259 --> 01:33:39,409
Obviously, USA Wrestling has-I
mean, really-I mean, just man,

1653
01:33:39,679 --> 01:33:42,639
it just keeps climbing. It keeps
climbing. Product keeps getting

1654
01:33:42,699 --> 01:33:44,679
better. I mean, everything. The
organization keeps getting

1655
01:33:44,709 --> 01:33:47,019
stronger. You guys are growing.
Obviously, we're opening up in a

1656
01:33:47,049 --> 01:33:50,199
brand new office here when we go
out for the state leaders

1657
01:33:50,649 --> 01:33:53,799
convention next month, and look
forward to seeing that. That's

1658
01:33:54,009 --> 01:33:56,529
really cool. What's the vision
moving forward? What's the

1659
01:33:56,649 --> 01:33:57,699
what's the plans for USA
Wrestling?

1660
01:33:58,239 --> 01:34:01,499
Well, I mean, obviously, we have
a lot of events on our on

1661
01:34:01,589 --> 01:34:05,309
horizon for us that that that
we're fixing to capitalize on,

1662
01:34:05,369 --> 01:34:08,519
whether that's the U 20 threes
this later this year or the

1663
01:34:08,609 --> 01:34:11,819
Senior Worlds next year, and
obviously the games in LA. But I

1664
01:34:11,879 --> 01:34:15,299
mean, talking about the success
and you know the role that our

1665
01:34:15,509 --> 01:34:19,079
that our sport is on, and in
particular USA Wrestling, it's

1666
01:34:19,139 --> 01:34:23,899
not it's not complicated. It's
not it's not hard to understand

1667
01:34:23,929 --> 01:34:28,039
why. And the reason that USA
Wrestling has had the success

1668
01:34:28,189 --> 01:34:30,739
it's had is because of its
people and because of its

1669
01:34:30,769 --> 01:34:33,619
infrastructure. It's not-I
mean-in our sport is at the

1670
01:34:33,739 --> 01:34:37,969
foundation of that, but man,
wrestling is blessed, and USA

1671
01:34:38,089 --> 01:34:42,999
Wrestling is especially blessed
with leadership that care deeply

1672
01:34:43,029 --> 01:34:47,139
about the sport in in really
every corner of our country,

1673
01:34:47,469 --> 01:34:52,389
right? We have 50 state chapters
that work tirelessly to provide

1674
01:34:52,539 --> 01:34:55,209
quality wrestling opportunities
for America's youth, and that's

1675
01:34:55,989 --> 01:35:01,139
that's that's a winning a
winning idea. In terms of you

1676
01:35:01,169 --> 01:35:04,259
know having success, and the
organizations build on four core

1677
01:35:04,349 --> 01:35:07,439
business objectives: building
the brand, growing the base,

1678
01:35:07,739 --> 01:35:10,499
networking in the community, and
winning with our teams. That's

1679
01:35:10,889 --> 01:35:13,109
you know we joke at the office
sometimes about hey if you're

1680
01:35:13,139 --> 01:35:15,089
doing something that's not
contributing to one of those

1681
01:35:15,209 --> 01:35:16,229
four things, stop doing

1682
01:35:16,619 --> 01:35:16,709
it.

1683
01:35:17,220 --> 01:35:19,770
And you know that's you know
it's been I mean that's not

1684
01:35:19,860 --> 01:35:22,550
something Rich Bender came up
with it's a you know it's been a

1685
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:27,560
foundational principle of of USA
Wrestling for as long as I've

1686
01:35:27,620 --> 01:35:31,100
been around almost 40 years and
it's and it's worked and you

1687
01:35:31,100 --> 01:35:34,640
know but at the core are the
people in our sport and you know

1688
01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:38,060
the sport I mean we can talk for
three days about the benefits of

1689
01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:42,820
that wrestling has on on
individuals and society, but

1690
01:35:43,000 --> 01:35:46,750
yeah, I mean, USA Wrestling. You
know, our vision is to to

1691
01:35:46,870 --> 01:35:51,100
continue to grow and and prosper
and provide opportunities for

1692
01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:54,100
kids to experience the support
for generations to come.

1693
01:35:55,630 --> 01:35:59,020
Obviously, we're we're one of 52
national governing bodies for

1694
01:35:59,050 --> 01:36:01,890
the United States Olympic and
Paralympic Committee and the

1695
01:36:01,950 --> 01:36:04,710
governing body comes with
responsibilities, right?

1696
01:36:04,830 --> 01:36:08,850
Providing safe environments, you
know, providing quality

1697
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:12,240
experiences, whether that's
through great, you know,

1698
01:36:12,750 --> 01:36:16,560
coaching education programs, so
so that the experiences are good

1699
01:36:16,680 --> 01:36:20,220
for not just the athletes but
the parents and and those that

1700
01:36:20,370 --> 01:36:24,200
touch the sport, and you know we
we we are investing in

1701
01:36:24,320 --> 01:36:27,290
refereeing, understanding that
that's a pretty foundational

1702
01:36:27,890 --> 01:36:32,060
piece of our sport to grow. In
fact, was able to chat with our

1703
01:36:32,630 --> 01:36:35,840
with our referees that are here
at their their annual meeting a

1704
01:36:35,930 --> 01:36:39,980
couple days ago, and you know
three 400 referees, a lot of

1705
01:36:40,280 --> 01:36:43,630
whom take their entire year's
vacation to come here and and

1706
01:36:43,900 --> 01:36:47,320
officiate care deeply about the
sport and many of those were

1707
01:36:47,440 --> 01:36:53,230
wrestlers and and or parents of
wrestlers that understand the

1708
01:36:53,260 --> 01:36:56,380
the you know the impact that the
sports had. So, I mean, yeah,

1709
01:36:56,560 --> 01:37:00,180
USA Wrestling is we have some
ambitious goals. I mean, we want

1710
01:37:00,180 --> 01:37:03,210
to want to win every single gold
medal, every single world

1711
01:37:03,270 --> 01:37:06,840
championship. We want to we want
to grow this membership to you

1712
01:37:06,870 --> 01:37:10,980
know a million members. We want
to we want to continue to

1713
01:37:11,040 --> 01:37:15,930
provide opportunities for people
to to use wrestling as a as a

1714
01:37:16,110 --> 01:37:19,200
foundational business
opportunity for them to to to

1715
01:37:20,310 --> 01:37:26,330
build and prosper programs and
clubs, so I mean, there's a lot

1716
01:37:26,810 --> 01:37:30,440
there, but you know, it's it
still comes back to the

1717
01:37:30,500 --> 01:37:35,150
foundation of an infrastructure,
the right people, and in a sport

1718
01:37:35,210 --> 01:37:36,080
that we know is right.

1719
01:37:36,829 --> 01:37:40,099
Yeah, I actually had this. It's
interesting because I I had this

1720
01:37:40,339 --> 01:37:43,989
I guess discussion at our team,
our parent and athlete meeting

1721
01:37:44,889 --> 01:37:48,309
last night, and then also on the
boys' side, you know, because I

1722
01:37:48,369 --> 01:37:51,699
think a lot of people, and
obviously what I do at my state

1723
01:37:51,729 --> 01:37:54,249
level is nothing like you. You
have to manage at your at your

1724
01:37:54,309 --> 01:37:57,459
level as far as like a director
type, executive director type of

1725
01:37:58,179 --> 01:38:01,049
deal. But I just I told them
we're we're never going to be

1726
01:38:01,049 --> 01:38:03,929
the most popular, you know. We
don't. I mean, the pats on the

1727
01:38:04,019 --> 01:38:06,329
back and the thank yous. I mean,
that we can probably do without

1728
01:38:06,359 --> 01:38:09,959
that. We the complaining is what
we you know get defensive about,

1729
01:38:10,589 --> 01:38:13,049
and I get defensive about
obviously because I'm in you

1730
01:38:13,079 --> 01:38:15,599
know I'm in charge of a board of
directors that's totally

1731
01:38:15,659 --> 01:38:17,609
volunteer. I'm volunteer, and
it's like listen, we're

1732
01:38:18,419 --> 01:38:20,599
volunteers here, but at the end
of the day, like you know,

1733
01:38:20,659 --> 01:38:23,029
whether you like our decisions
as board board members or not,

1734
01:38:23,899 --> 01:38:26,509
everything is directed to the
betterment of the kids.

1735
01:38:26,809 --> 01:38:28,789
Everything everything goes
towards the kids. Everything

1736
01:38:28,909 --> 01:38:31,549
everything with the with the
kids' best interest in mind. But

1737
01:38:31,579 --> 01:38:35,299
you but you mentioned the
infrastructure part of it, and

1738
01:38:35,299 --> 01:38:38,419
that's one of the things that I
had to kind of. I mean, I've

1739
01:38:38,449 --> 01:38:40,509
been our state chair for I don't
know I don't even know I lost

1740
01:38:40,539 --> 01:38:42,699
count. 15 years, whatever. But
that's the thing I didn't

1741
01:38:42,729 --> 01:38:45,189
understand from the get go, from
the beginning. You know, maybe

1742
01:38:45,249 --> 01:38:47,409
even my first 10 year before I
came back, and then I came back.

1743
01:38:48,159 --> 01:38:50,859
You know, and it took over again
in Tennessee. I think in my year

1744
01:38:51,009 --> 01:38:54,669
five or four or five year. And
but we already we had some board

1745
01:38:54,729 --> 01:38:56,379
members in place that were a
little bit better on the

1746
01:38:56,439 --> 01:38:59,559
infrastructure side. Our
treasurer Josh Durgil, credible,

1747
01:39:00,159 --> 01:39:03,869
got in a in a good financial
position. My my vice chair Derek

1748
01:39:03,869 --> 01:39:07,349
Harrison. They're all very very
organized and business minded

1749
01:39:07,409 --> 01:39:09,659
and kind of developing
infrastructure. Our national

1750
01:39:09,689 --> 01:39:11,999
teams leaders Mackenzie Fowler
and Jarvis Little. They they're

1751
01:39:12,329 --> 01:39:15,569
so good at that stuff. And me, I
that's not my strong suit, you

1752
01:39:15,599 --> 01:39:18,029
know. So that's the big
important piece. So it's a it's

1753
01:39:18,149 --> 01:39:20,669
really interesting that you you
know you mentioned the

1754
01:39:20,699 --> 01:39:22,999
infrastructure part of it
because that's-it's not all just

1755
01:39:22,999 --> 01:39:25,819
about just wrestling and
whistles and takedowns and

1756
01:39:25,819 --> 01:39:28,249
everything else. It's you got to
have you got to run it like a

1757
01:39:28,279 --> 01:39:28,549
business.

1758
01:39:28,880 --> 01:39:31,610
Yeah, and and and that doesn't
come without challenges. Yeah,

1759
01:39:32,150 --> 01:39:33,800
right. I mean, and you know, we

1760
01:39:34,370 --> 01:39:37,400
especially you're in a very
unpopular position. Yeah, I get

1761
01:39:37,430 --> 01:39:39,680
it. Yeah, I get it. You know,
it's it's

1762
01:39:40,190 --> 01:39:43,060
it's interesting to to be able
to serve on the the U.S. Olympic

1763
01:39:43,090 --> 01:39:45,460
and Paralympic Committee board,
and you know, been the chair of

1764
01:39:45,460 --> 01:39:47,770
the National Governing Body
Council, which is the council of

1765
01:39:48,160 --> 01:39:51,190
all the NGBs that make up the
U.S. Olympic and Paralympic

1766
01:39:51,220 --> 01:39:55,390
Committee. And I mean, those
sports and those organizations

1767
01:39:55,480 --> 01:39:58,390
that struggle with
infrastructure and governance. I

1768
01:39:58,720 --> 01:40:01,500
mean, I say this all the time.
Bad. Governance is the cancer of

1769
01:40:01,530 --> 01:40:04,620
the Olympic movement, and I
think that's true within our

1770
01:40:04,740 --> 01:40:07,470
state chapters too. Like, yeah,
we don't always get it right.

1771
01:40:07,530 --> 01:40:11,130
No, I mean, at the end of the
day, for sure. But I mean, if

1772
01:40:11,460 --> 01:40:13,950
you have the right people,
usually you get to the right the

1773
01:40:14,220 --> 01:40:18,030
right place. And you know, with
kids, you know, at the center,

1774
01:40:18,510 --> 01:40:21,830
it's you know, it's it's what I
mean, we're an athlete-driven

1775
01:40:21,950 --> 01:40:25,460
organization at the very highest
level, right? We we we care

1776
01:40:25,580 --> 01:40:29,600
deeply about not just winning
World Olympic gold medals, but

1777
01:40:29,990 --> 01:40:35,360
athletes and and you know it's
that infrastructure that

1778
01:40:35,450 --> 01:40:38,300
provides those opportunities and
attracts the people like

1779
01:40:38,360 --> 01:40:41,980
yourself to to be a part of
something is pretty cool, but

1780
01:40:42,040 --> 01:40:45,040
it's it also important. It's
important to recognize that

1781
01:40:45,100 --> 01:40:48,400
that's why that without that
infrastructure, I mean, if you

1782
01:40:48,430 --> 01:40:53,230
have you know bad governance
structures and and you know then

1783
01:40:53,650 --> 01:40:55,960
right you're you're distracted
and you're not able to provide

1784
01:40:56,020 --> 01:40:59,620
those quality wrestling
opportunities for for kids to to

1785
01:40:59,710 --> 01:41:03,570
participate in you know, but
it's funny because at USA

1786
01:41:03,690 --> 01:41:07,050
Wrestling, I think a lot of
people think that hey, it's all

1787
01:41:07,110 --> 01:41:11,280
about the Olympic team. That
that's that's and certainly

1788
01:41:11,340 --> 01:41:14,790
that's wickedly important to us.
And you know, as the national

1789
01:41:14,820 --> 01:41:18,660
governing body, we're we have
the the responsibility to

1790
01:41:18,720 --> 01:41:23,450
identify and to you know, assist
with the training and the

1791
01:41:23,720 --> 01:41:28,730
preparation of of our teams to
participate, but it's not all

1792
01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:31,550
about elite athletes. I mean, a
lot of what we do is about elite

1793
01:41:31,700 --> 01:41:34,820
athletes, and I'm sure I'm going
to get some grief about saying

1794
01:41:34,880 --> 01:41:38,870
that on the on a podcast. But
Marina and I say this all the

1795
01:41:38,900 --> 01:41:42,370
time: it's it's our membership
that is the straw that stirs the

1796
01:41:42,370 --> 01:41:45,970
drink for us, and it's you know
not only is that the you know

1797
01:41:46,120 --> 01:41:50,620
the biggest revenue driver of
for USA Wrestling that that

1798
01:41:50,740 --> 01:41:54,610
funds a lot of our programs, but
it's at the core of what who we

1799
01:41:54,850 --> 01:41:59,560
are, right? It's yeah, Kyle
Schneider and Kyle Dake and you

1800
01:41:59,590 --> 01:42:04,590
know Kennedy Blades, and you
know, you you know, name our

1801
01:42:04,620 --> 01:42:07,500
elite. You you can name our
elite athletes, and that's yeah,

1802
01:42:07,620 --> 01:42:11,850
they're they're the face of the
organization a lot of ways. But

1803
01:42:11,970 --> 01:42:17,310
man, I I'd say that you know,
bulk of what we focus on is are

1804
01:42:17,370 --> 01:42:20,790
those kids that will never make
a world team, right? Or but will

1805
01:42:21,510 --> 01:42:24,860
you know, have their life
changed by our sport, and you

1806
01:42:24,860 --> 01:42:27,590
know whether they give back to
USA Wrestling specifically or

1807
01:42:27,710 --> 01:42:32,270
even the sport, it's just I mean
I I think it's cool to be around

1808
01:42:32,360 --> 01:42:35,270
so many people that are driven
by the idea that it's just about

1809
01:42:35,330 --> 01:42:38,600
providing the opportunity and
providing a quality opportunity,

1810
01:42:39,410 --> 01:42:43,570
and so yeah, it sounds a little
cliche at times to to talk about

1811
01:42:43,600 --> 01:42:46,540
it that way, but I think our
sport's different than other

1812
01:42:46,630 --> 01:42:49,180
sports because of the
infrastructure, because of the

1813
01:42:49,240 --> 01:42:53,590
people, and because of the
foundation of what the sport is.

1814
01:42:53,590 --> 01:42:55,690
And I said this yesterday that
you know Henry Cejudo said,

1815
01:42:55,750 --> 01:42:57,700
"Hey, to be successful in
wrestling, all you need is a

1816
01:42:57,760 --> 01:43:01,470
pair of shoes and a dream. And
right, he achieves at the very

1817
01:43:01,590 --> 01:43:06,120
highest level, but yeah, it's
infrastructure and and like I

1818
01:43:06,240 --> 01:43:09,150
said, it's building the brand.
Sure, it's growing the base

1819
01:43:09,270 --> 01:43:12,660
sure, it's networking the
community sure, it's winning.

1820
01:43:12,840 --> 01:43:16,620
Sure, but you know ultimately
it's a it's more of a holistic

1821
01:43:16,710 --> 01:43:19,800
approach that gives the
opportunity for the organization

1822
01:43:20,130 --> 01:43:20,880
to be successful.

1823
01:43:21,539 --> 01:43:23,179
Yeah, yeah, no, I can, I can
definitely relate. I know, I

1824
01:43:23,569 --> 01:43:29,089
every year when Fargo comes
around, you know, I, you know,

1825
01:43:29,179 --> 01:43:31,249
it's, it's probably very
similar, obviously in your

1826
01:43:31,309 --> 01:43:34,849
position, but at much, much, you
know, bigger scale. But

1827
01:43:34,849 --> 01:43:37,009
everything gets funneled through
me, and everything gets funneled

1828
01:43:37,009 --> 01:43:38,659
through you because I mean,
because you're the exact, you

1829
01:43:38,719 --> 01:43:40,539
should know, you're in charge of
everything. You, you get all the

1830
01:43:40,569 --> 01:43:44,409
votes on the board, so I go
round and round, back and forth

1831
01:43:44,469 --> 01:43:46,929
with even some of my board
members because they don't see

1832
01:43:47,109 --> 01:43:50,169
quite because I don't have kids,
you know. So I'm 53 years old,

1833
01:43:50,199 --> 01:43:53,499
single with no kids, so I'm kind
of like Switzerland, you know. I

1834
01:43:53,499 --> 01:43:55,419
I look at it from a lot
different words. A lot of our

1835
01:43:55,749 --> 01:43:59,289
our members are our parents, and
they look at it, you know, from

1836
01:43:59,319 --> 01:44:00,959
a little bit different way,
which is good. I mean, it's good

1837
01:44:00,959 --> 01:44:04,019
to have a little mix, but we
have board members, we have we

1838
01:44:04,079 --> 01:44:07,139
have coaches, we have people
that don't. Again, we get back

1839
01:44:07,169 --> 01:44:10,709
the Fargo thing. Don't see the
value in this here, you know,

1840
01:44:10,829 --> 01:44:13,499
because wow, you know, it's a
it's a tough tournament in the

1841
01:44:13,769 --> 01:44:16,349
world. We should really only
just send our best kids. And I'm

1842
01:44:16,379 --> 01:44:19,379
like, no, that's not it's not
what we're here for, you know.

1843
01:44:19,499 --> 01:44:21,709
It's a deal where we have to
because we do things a little

1844
01:44:21,709 --> 01:44:24,289
bit different as a state as far
as how we travel here. We allow

1845
01:44:25,189 --> 01:44:28,399
our you know our club kids, our
club coaches to come. We they

1846
01:44:28,489 --> 01:44:31,729
can pick their travel people is
what they can, and so we don't

1847
01:44:31,789 --> 01:44:35,989
we don't elect our our coaching
staff as a board. So you know

1848
01:44:36,049 --> 01:44:38,689
that's that's strictly for the
kids' benefit. You know we want

1849
01:44:38,689 --> 01:44:40,929
them to have their coaches in
there, and and but then we also

1850
01:44:40,989 --> 01:44:43,629
have some kids that maybe don't
have the coaching back home, or

1851
01:44:43,779 --> 01:44:46,149
they just you know the ones that
don't have quite the experience

1852
01:44:46,179 --> 01:44:48,759
here. That stuff's very very
important for them too to be

1853
01:44:48,999 --> 01:44:52,149
able to interact with our
state's best. And I think that

1854
01:44:52,209 --> 01:44:55,119
like I said, when when you guys
put so much you know emphasis on

1855
01:44:55,149 --> 01:44:58,089
the Olympic you know an Olympic
team and and doing well at the

1856
01:44:58,089 --> 01:45:00,899
Olympic, that stuff all bleeds
down. Because that gives gives

1857
01:45:00,959 --> 01:45:03,929
kids you know things to look up
to and things to dream and

1858
01:45:03,929 --> 01:45:06,989
strive for and to set goals for.
Same thing in our state and at a

1859
01:45:07,019 --> 01:45:11,969
smaller level. If we're you know
putting in a lot of effort and a

1860
01:45:11,969 --> 01:45:13,679
lot of time and a lot of
resource into our national

1861
01:45:13,739 --> 01:45:16,109
teams, well, I would think that
the rest of the state would want

1862
01:45:16,109 --> 01:45:18,389
to follow suit and try to make
those. And same time, but at the

1863
01:45:18,449 --> 01:45:20,419
same time, we have to include
those because they make up the

1864
01:45:20,419 --> 01:45:22,999
both membership, so it's super
important to get those kids

1865
01:45:23,059 --> 01:45:26,269
here. Not not the term saying
you know what, you're not really

1866
01:45:26,299 --> 01:45:28,609
ready for Fargo. Don't come. No,
you need to come, and you need

1867
01:45:28,609 --> 01:45:31,399
to get around these these type
of individuals that are the best

1868
01:45:31,549 --> 01:45:33,229
in in our state. What we have to
offer.

1869
01:45:34,160 --> 01:45:37,250
Yeah, I mean, and that's so
true. And I probably was remiss

1870
01:45:37,400 --> 01:45:41,380
in not making a bigger deal
about you know our recent

1871
01:45:41,440 --> 01:45:46,090
success of it being you know a
direct result of of leadership,

1872
01:45:46,180 --> 01:45:51,190
not me, but leadership from our
board. Bruce Baumgartner is is

1873
01:45:51,400 --> 01:45:55,090
the best. I mean he's he is, I
mean has integrity beyond

1874
01:45:55,330 --> 01:45:59,890
measure, respected in not just
the wrestling world but the

1875
01:45:59,980 --> 01:46:04,650
entire Olympic world, and and
you know challenges us daily,

1876
01:46:04,830 --> 01:46:08,550
and and he if you talk to Bruce
for 10 minutes about you know

1877
01:46:08,700 --> 01:46:10,680
what is you know I talked to him
for a long time what afternoon

1878
01:46:11,550 --> 01:46:14,280
yes they're asking I promise you
he's going to tell you that we

1879
01:46:14,370 --> 01:46:17,010
just try to get better every day
just a little bit better every

1880
01:46:17,070 --> 01:46:21,440
day and he he challenges you
know our staff and me, but man,

1881
01:46:21,530 --> 01:46:26,210
he is-he is-he's such a selfless
guy that he cares so deeply

1882
01:46:26,300 --> 01:46:30,830
about about the sport and the
organization. That I mean,

1883
01:46:32,330 --> 01:46:35,420
he-he's-he's the reason that
that or a big part of why we

1884
01:46:35,630 --> 01:46:38,360
have the success we have. And
he's a volunteer. I mean, the

1885
01:46:38,600 --> 01:46:42,730
amount of investment time and he
invests in our sport is is

1886
01:46:42,970 --> 01:46:45,790
crazy, and now you know he
serves on the UWW Executive

1887
01:46:45,850 --> 01:46:50,200
Board, and the travel, and the
and the expectation for for that

1888
01:46:50,500 --> 01:46:55,480
is is pretty incredible. But
yeah, I mean it's I mean there's

1889
01:46:55,540 --> 01:46:59,260
a lot of different verticals
within the sport and within USA

1890
01:46:59,410 --> 01:47:02,790
Wrestling that are really good,
and there's you know there's

1891
01:47:02,880 --> 01:47:07,350
challenging ones too, and you
know it's not you talk about you

1892
01:47:07,380 --> 01:47:10,950
know state chapters, and you
know we're we're blessed by you

1893
01:47:10,950 --> 01:47:13,770
know the Tennessee's state
chapter structure and your

1894
01:47:13,830 --> 01:47:16,620
leadership, and you know getting
the right people on the bus that

1895
01:47:17,130 --> 01:47:19,650
that share that vision that hey
it's about the kids and it's

1896
01:47:19,680 --> 01:47:22,880
about providing opportunities.
We always get that right. It's

1897
01:47:22,940 --> 01:47:27,230
not in you know. There's times
where where we struggle, and you

1898
01:47:27,230 --> 01:47:29,930
know we can get better. And as
Bruce Baumgartner, you know,

1899
01:47:30,110 --> 01:47:33,650
challenges us constantly is that
hey, we just got to get better.

1900
01:47:33,710 --> 01:47:37,760
We learn from our mistakes, and
and and move things forward. And

1901
01:47:37,850 --> 01:47:42,130
you know, I think sometimes as
USA Wrestling grows, right? We

1902
01:47:42,130 --> 01:47:44,620
become a bigger target for
people to criticize us. Ah,

1903
01:47:45,040 --> 01:47:48,370
these guys, you know, and and
you know a lot of those

1904
01:47:48,460 --> 01:47:53,290
criticism we criticism we
deserve, but you know, but I

1905
01:47:53,380 --> 01:47:56,230
tell you that you know I assure
you there's 50 full time

1906
01:47:56,290 --> 01:47:58,930
professionals that wake up every
day in Colorado Springs trying

1907
01:47:58,930 --> 01:48:03,510
to you know work hard to provide
opportunities and lead things.

1908
01:48:03,660 --> 01:48:03,720
So

1909
01:48:04,649 --> 01:48:08,339
I love that when every year we
go the when I go with the state

1910
01:48:08,369 --> 01:48:11,339
leaders meetings, that's the
first thing when your opening

1911
01:48:11,399 --> 01:48:16,319
address every year. I mean you
are beyond beyond beyond

1912
01:48:16,379 --> 01:48:19,679
thankful for your the staff and
and you because you obviously

1913
01:48:19,769 --> 01:48:22,249
being a strong player in the
Olympic movement and being on

1914
01:48:22,249 --> 01:48:24,379
the different boards and seeing
the different organizations, you

1915
01:48:24,409 --> 01:48:27,829
know, out there, and just say
you're basically hands down.

1916
01:48:27,889 --> 01:48:30,559
There's nobody even close. We're
like the model of all the

1917
01:48:30,649 --> 01:48:31,219
Olympic sports.

1918
01:48:31,760 --> 01:48:36,440
Yeah, and and it's you know
Archie Randall in our at our we

1919
01:48:36,530 --> 01:48:40,040
have a breakfast every year for
our state chapters, and you know

1920
01:48:40,100 --> 01:48:42,310
he came up to me this year and
said, "Are you going to say the

1921
01:48:42,370 --> 01:48:46,720
same thing you say every year?
And I said, "Yeah, I'm going to

1922
01:48:46,900 --> 01:48:49,270
say the same thing I say every
year because I mean it, and I

1923
01:48:49,330 --> 01:48:52,510
don't think there's anything
more important. And you know,

1924
01:48:52,750 --> 01:48:55,510
you you touched on a little bit,
you know, the the enormous

1925
01:48:56,620 --> 01:49:01,860
number of people that volunteer
their time to to give back and

1926
01:49:01,950 --> 01:49:05,130
pay things forward or
opportunities forward is, and

1927
01:49:05,130 --> 01:49:08,580
that's about all we can do is
thank them. Yeah, and you know,

1928
01:49:08,700 --> 01:49:11,250
so I've I've always felt that
that is an important

1929
01:49:11,280 --> 01:49:16,740
responsibility that leadership
has is to is to make sure that

1930
01:49:16,980 --> 01:49:20,360
people know that that they're
appreciated for their for their

1931
01:49:20,750 --> 01:49:24,530
investment in, you know, but you
know, one of the things that we

1932
01:49:24,620 --> 01:49:27,470
talked about in that state
leaders breakfast, which is, you

1933
01:49:27,470 --> 01:49:31,160
know, I think something that
will be, you know, left to the

1934
01:49:31,250 --> 01:49:35,900
next generation, is this idea of
the generational wealth

1935
01:49:36,290 --> 01:49:40,340
distribution from one generation
to the next, and and you know,

1936
01:49:40,430 --> 01:49:44,680
we are on the precipice of the
biggest wealth transfer in the

1937
01:49:44,830 --> 01:49:48,850
history of humankind, and
there's no question that's going

1938
01:49:48,850 --> 01:49:52,060
to happen. But are we going to
pass that wisdom on to the next

1939
01:49:52,120 --> 01:49:55,300
generation? And I think our
sports figured that out a long

1940
01:49:55,390 --> 01:49:58,300
time ago, right? And you know we
talked about that earlier in

1941
01:49:58,330 --> 01:50:03,540
this call about. Or this this
podcast about you know paying

1942
01:50:03,660 --> 01:50:04,530
things forward and

1943
01:50:04,770 --> 01:50:04,890
and

1944
01:50:05,249 --> 01:50:07,109
you know you walking on the
floor of the junior nationals

1945
01:50:07,199 --> 01:50:10,679
and seeing you know literally
hundreds if not 1000s of people

1946
01:50:10,739 --> 01:50:13,559
that are are doing just that
wrestling's figured that out

1947
01:50:13,650 --> 01:50:13,710
yeah

1948
01:50:14,070 --> 01:50:15,390
you know we're gonna we're gonna
be just fine

1949
01:50:15,509 --> 01:50:15,749
I agree

1950
01:50:15,840 --> 01:50:19,170
because we're gonna pass that
that on to the next generation

1951
01:50:19,260 --> 01:50:23,300
and and so I mean, that's a cool
thing about wrestling and in in

1952
01:50:24,080 --> 01:50:24,830
the organization.

1953
01:50:25,130 --> 01:50:28,820
Yeah, awesome. Last thing, what
do we got to look forward to? U

1954
01:50:28,880 --> 01:50:32,510
20 threes, the senior level
worlds. Yeah, you just got to be

1955
01:50:32,600 --> 01:50:35,360
super excited there. Olympic
Games. We got three huge events

1956
01:50:35,420 --> 01:50:38,210
coming up here soon in the
United States soil, and it's

1957
01:50:38,480 --> 01:50:39,890
it's pretty it's pretty amazing.

1958
01:50:39,980 --> 01:50:43,900
Well, intimidating in this
environment, and you know, and

1959
01:50:44,020 --> 01:50:48,490
you think about you know why why
would we host the U 23 World

1960
01:50:48,550 --> 01:50:51,970
Championships, and and you know
if you look at it from a

1961
01:50:52,150 --> 01:50:56,470
business perspective, it doesn't
make any sense, right? It's it's

1962
01:50:56,530 --> 01:50:59,740
expensive. It doesn't, you know,
you're it's going to cost way

1963
01:50:59,860 --> 01:51:05,010
more than you know it's gonna
we'll take in a lot less revenue

1964
01:51:05,130 --> 01:51:10,650
than we'll extend in expenses,
but we feel it's really

1965
01:51:10,710 --> 01:51:14,730
important for us expose our
country and our wrestling

1966
01:51:14,790 --> 01:51:18,930
community to international
wrestling and and paint a vision

1967
01:51:19,140 --> 01:51:22,700
for how this works leading up to
the Olympic Games, so when we

1968
01:51:22,760 --> 01:51:25,190
had the opportunity to host the,
I mean, originally we wanted to

1969
01:51:25,220 --> 01:51:31,940
host the U 20 s, and then there
was a a request by UWW to to

1970
01:51:32,240 --> 01:51:34,760
back away from the U 20 s
because they had a deal

1971
01:51:34,910 --> 01:51:38,000
supposedly with Bahrain to host
the seniors in the U 20 s, and

1972
01:51:38,570 --> 01:51:41,080
in the same year, and you know
we got to looking at the team,

1973
01:51:41,830 --> 01:51:45,370
and thought, man, there there
might be a lot of U 20 guys on

1974
01:51:45,400 --> 01:51:47,770
the U 23 team because we're I
mean we're young, yeah, true,

1975
01:51:48,280 --> 01:51:54,940
and and girls, and so you know
we we said okay, and then the

1976
01:51:54,940 --> 01:51:59,680
next curveball was they moved
the date, and you know as as you

1977
01:51:59,800 --> 01:52:03,330
know I mean there's a lot of
athletes that are on our senior

1978
01:52:03,480 --> 01:52:09,780
world team that are U23
eligible, and so I mean that

1979
01:52:09,990 --> 01:52:12,510
that messed with us a little bit
because we thought it would take

1980
01:52:12,960 --> 01:52:17,130
away a lot of our elite athletes
from the U23 World

1981
01:52:17,190 --> 01:52:20,420
Championships, and you know what
we're finding out is those U23

1982
01:52:21,230 --> 01:52:26,000
senior world eligible athletes
want to do both now. Whether

1983
01:52:26,540 --> 01:52:30,920
because the curveball was they
moved the they moved it to a

1984
01:52:31,010 --> 01:52:34,880
week after in the fall of the
U23s where it was you know

1985
01:52:35,120 --> 01:52:38,750
earlier in the year, but because
of heat they they they wanted to

1986
01:52:38,810 --> 01:52:42,190
move it and you know we weren't
happy about it. We didn't. We

1987
01:52:42,340 --> 01:52:46,600
didn't say, "Hey, that's okay
with us. But you know, we we got

1988
01:52:46,750 --> 01:52:50,620
one vote, and so it's gonna. I
mean, it's still a challenge

1989
01:52:50,740 --> 01:52:55,570
with the timing because you
know, I I don't know when push

1990
01:52:55,690 --> 01:53:00,100
comes to shove. All of our you
know senior number one athletes

1991
01:53:00,130 --> 01:53:04,260
that are U 23 are going to do
it, but you know, and it and it

1992
01:53:04,260 --> 01:53:09,390
fell a little bit differently
than than maybe we had thought.

1993
01:53:09,540 --> 01:53:14,640
So you know, we're we're going
to get our stars to to to Vegas,

1994
01:53:14,880 --> 01:53:19,470
and you know, we we we we we do
it for a couple of reasons. One

1995
01:53:19,500 --> 01:53:22,940
is we want to make sure that
we're giving our athletes

1996
01:53:23,480 --> 01:53:27,200
opportunities to be successful,
and we know for sure that

1997
01:53:27,770 --> 01:53:31,340
competing at home gives athletes
an opportunity to be maybe a

1998
01:53:31,370 --> 01:53:34,460
little bit more successful. I
mean, home ice is a is a thing

1999
01:53:34,580 --> 01:53:39,020
absolutely, and and gives us an
opportunity to promote the the

2000
01:53:39,350 --> 01:53:42,640
international styles with within
our country gives us an

2001
01:53:42,730 --> 01:53:46,990
opportunity to to train
volunteers to participate in

2002
01:53:47,050 --> 01:53:50,260
these these international type
world championships, Olympic

2003
01:53:50,320 --> 01:53:54,040
games, and you know we thought
it was worth. Oh, we think it's

2004
01:53:54,100 --> 01:53:54,220
worth

2005
01:53:54,820 --> 01:53:54,910
it.

2006
01:53:55,150 --> 01:53:59,260
So you know, our obviously we
want to competitively win for

2007
01:53:59,410 --> 01:54:02,850
sure. We want to raise the
relevancy of wrestling and

2008
01:54:02,880 --> 01:54:08,490
expose international wrestling
to to our to our community, and

2009
01:54:08,640 --> 01:54:12,120
also set a standard for the
international federation of how

2010
01:54:12,870 --> 01:54:15,870
events should be hosted. And I
mean that sounds a little bit

2011
01:54:15,960 --> 01:54:20,480
arrogant, probably, but you know
it started in you know I think

2012
01:54:20,870 --> 01:54:24,770
1996. Most people said, "Hey,
the best wrestling competition

2013
01:54:24,860 --> 01:54:29,180
ever hosted was the 96 Olympic
Games, and and was awesome.

2014
01:54:29,270 --> 01:54:32,960
Yeah, and it was right. And and
USA Wrestling deserves a lot of

2015
01:54:32,990 --> 01:54:35,900
credit for that because if you
remember, it was in a in an

2016
01:54:35,930 --> 01:54:38,660
environment where the Atlanta
Committee for the Olympic Games

2017
01:54:39,200 --> 01:54:42,520
didn't put a big priority on
wrestling, and and we had

2018
01:54:42,610 --> 01:54:46,090
leadership and you know Jim
Shear and I was able to serve as

2019
01:54:46,150 --> 01:54:49,030
competition manager for those
games and you know Jim Shear

2020
01:54:49,840 --> 01:54:52,960
made it very clear early to me
as the competition manager in

2021
01:54:52,960 --> 01:54:57,280
Atlanta that hey we're not going
to let ACOG hamstring our

2022
01:54:57,310 --> 01:55:00,330
ability to host the best Olympic
games ever and we. U.S.

2023
01:55:00,420 --> 01:55:04,680
Wrestling invested in those
games and and made sure that the

2024
01:55:04,860 --> 01:55:08,910
experience was awesome, and it
was, and and so we set the

2025
01:55:09,060 --> 01:55:13,920
standard for you know how
wrestling should be presented,

2026
01:55:14,850 --> 01:55:18,120
and you know we've hosted world
championships in the past.

2027
01:55:18,120 --> 01:55:21,020
That's been true. We've we've
we've elevated. I know this

2028
01:55:21,110 --> 01:55:25,760
sounds really wickedly arrogant,
but it's true. I mean, and

2029
01:55:25,790 --> 01:55:29,030
that's another reason why we're
we're hosting these events is,

2030
01:55:29,900 --> 01:55:33,980
you know, we want to set a
standard of elevating the the

2031
01:55:34,010 --> 01:55:37,190
the quality of the experience
for the athletes and the fans.

2032
01:55:37,310 --> 01:55:39,710
And you know, our our sport
hasn't done a good job of that

2033
01:55:39,800 --> 01:55:42,910
lately. I mean, you go to the,
you know, the these world

2034
01:55:42,940 --> 01:55:45,850
championships and other
countries, and you know they

2035
01:55:46,000 --> 01:55:48,910
yeah they have the lights and
the mats and the you know

2036
01:55:49,060 --> 01:55:53,830
signage, but you know 2030
people in stands, yeah, and you

2037
01:55:53,830 --> 01:55:57,430
know we really feel like you
know we we have a responsibility

2038
01:55:58,000 --> 01:56:01,860
and an obligation at least take
a big swing at having you know

2039
01:56:02,640 --> 01:56:06,120
people come and and and watch
and participate and you know

2040
01:56:06,510 --> 01:56:09,960
things like raff those those
those promotions are helpful

2041
01:56:10,230 --> 01:56:14,040
because they're they're they're
cracking the code on attendance

2042
01:56:14,190 --> 01:56:18,870
and getting people to to to care
and then obviously so the U 23

2043
01:56:18,900 --> 01:56:22,670
is the first part of that the
the senior worlds has different

2044
01:56:23,510 --> 01:56:28,280
value to us, more expensive, by
the way. And I'll tell you a

2045
01:56:28,310 --> 01:56:30,590
little story about that. Maybe
again a little business. And

2046
01:56:31,190 --> 01:56:35,030
when we hosted the game, those
games in in in Vegas before, we

2047
01:56:35,150 --> 01:56:38,060
made a million dollar profit in
profit. $1 million. Yeah, really

2048
01:56:38,180 --> 01:56:40,570
sold a million dollars in
tickets. Did really well with

2049
01:56:40,630 --> 01:56:41,560
sponsorship and the the

2050
01:56:41,920 --> 01:56:44,020
World Championships in Vegas.
Really, yeah,

2051
01:56:44,350 --> 01:56:48,220
and and where the the the
financial driver comes is

2052
01:56:49,180 --> 01:56:52,450
there's a a fee that everyone
that gets a credential has to

2053
01:56:52,540 --> 01:57:00,070
pay. It's $250 a day for three
meals in a in a double occupancy

2054
01:57:00,280 --> 01:57:05,790
room. So we were able to in in
when we were there before hosted

2055
01:57:05,790 --> 01:57:09,390
the event at the Orleans, and
you know negotiated a really

2056
01:57:09,540 --> 01:57:15,840
really attractive room rate at
the Orleans, and then the the

2057
01:57:15,840 --> 01:57:22,130
the buffet, which was I mean
insanely cheap, yet it was the

2058
01:57:22,160 --> 01:57:26,420
best food athletes had ever
experienced at a at a World

2059
01:57:26,480 --> 01:57:30,200
Championships, and so everything
kind of fell fell together, and

2060
01:57:30,290 --> 01:57:33,530
and we were really profitable.
Well, our our international

2061
01:57:33,560 --> 01:57:37,580
federation and their infinite
wisdom saw those you know books

2062
01:57:37,700 --> 01:57:42,280
and and balance sheets and
budgets and said, well, we need

2063
01:57:42,280 --> 01:57:45,520
to charge two and a half million
for the rights fee now. So the

2064
01:57:45,610 --> 01:57:48,940
rights fee went, you know, it's
went up. I mean, it's $2 million

2065
01:57:49,030 --> 01:57:51,790
more than it was. So I mean, I
have a Wisconsin public

2066
01:57:51,880 --> 01:57:56,230
education, and you know, if
there's a $2 million expense put

2067
01:57:56,320 --> 01:58:00,130
on top of an event where you
made a million dollars, there's

2068
01:58:00,190 --> 01:58:03,240
some ground to make up, so I
mean we're going to work hard

2069
01:58:03,330 --> 01:58:08,280
and and you know and you know to
obviously do everything in our

2070
01:58:08,310 --> 01:58:12,600
power to make make it make it
balance, but there's also a

2071
01:58:12,720 --> 01:58:15,720
commitment by our organization
that have looked forward and

2072
01:58:15,780 --> 01:58:19,290
say, hey, these you know this is
arguably the most important

2073
01:58:19,650 --> 01:58:23,840
three four year cycle in our
history, and you know we can't

2074
01:58:24,020 --> 01:58:28,700
we can't be afraid of of you
know challenges like you know

2075
01:58:29,060 --> 01:58:32,990
finances. Obviously, we it's
important to to to stay focused

2076
01:58:33,050 --> 01:58:36,560
on that. But the other thing
that in you know this is Captain

2077
01:58:36,710 --> 01:58:41,860
Obvious, but hosting the the the
27 World Championships is the

2078
01:58:41,860 --> 01:58:45,130
most significant qualifier for
for LA, and when we hosted the

2079
01:58:45,220 --> 01:58:49,090
games in in '96, you know we had
automatic or night.

2080
01:58:49,509 --> 01:58:50,829
We hosted the Olympic

2081
01:58:50,830 --> 01:58:55,360
Games in '96. We had automatic
qualifiers. So there's and right

2082
01:58:55,390 --> 01:58:56,950
now there's just 16 slots.

2083
01:58:57,279 --> 01:58:57,339
Yeah,

2084
01:58:57,850 --> 01:59:02,670
and and so you know we have to
take advantage of every single

2085
01:59:02,790 --> 01:59:05,910
opportunity because you know
we've been blessed to be kind of

2086
01:59:05,910 --> 01:59:09,120
the leading nation, if you will,
when it comes to qualifying

2087
01:59:09,240 --> 01:59:13,470
after you know qual. I mean, 96
and 2000, it was still

2088
01:59:13,680 --> 01:59:17,970
relatively easy to get
qualified. It's not anymore, and

2089
01:59:18,180 --> 01:59:21,530
and you know we hear people talk
all the time. Oh, you know, the

2090
01:59:21,680 --> 01:59:25,730
Olympic Games is not that hard
to win a gold medal. Well, yeah,

2091
01:59:25,820 --> 01:59:28,160
there's 16 people in in the way.
That's true.

2092
01:59:28,399 --> 01:59:28,459
Yeah,

2093
01:59:29,000 --> 01:59:34,670
but yeah, there's a lot to get
to that 16. And so, I mean,

2094
01:59:34,700 --> 01:59:38,600
we're hosting those games with
the with the you know motivation

2095
01:59:38,630 --> 01:59:41,920
that it's going to help us you
know with qualifying, further

2096
01:59:42,010 --> 01:59:45,820
help us develop the team that
will you know go to LA and and

2097
01:59:45,940 --> 01:59:50,200
host the wrestling competition,
and then ultimately we think it

2098
01:59:50,230 --> 01:59:54,700
gives us another shot to promote
and raise the relevancy of

2099
01:59:54,820 --> 02:00:01,320
wrestling, and so and then
obviously in in in 90. I guess

2100
02:00:01,500 --> 02:00:06,240
220 28. It's right. We wanna we
wanna win every single gold

2101
02:00:06,360 --> 02:00:11,250
medal, and you know we want
wrestling to you know be

2102
02:00:11,460 --> 02:00:14,790
recognized for what it is. And
you know a lot of people don't

2103
02:00:14,790 --> 02:00:20,430
know this that wrestling is the
number three metal producing

2104
02:00:20,550 --> 02:00:25,280
sport for Team USA number three,
only behind. There's no no sport

2105
02:00:25,310 --> 02:00:28,550
has won more Olympic medals than
than wrestling, besides track

2106
02:00:28,610 --> 02:00:31,670
and field and swimming. Really,
and I mean that's you know a lot

2107
02:00:31,670 --> 02:00:35,180
of people don't know that, and
you know in 20 in 2000

2108
02:00:35,329 --> 02:00:36,949
limited opportunities, yeah, to
win medals.

2109
02:00:37,100 --> 02:00:42,490
Yeah, and in it was funny in in
2013, you know, we're digging

2110
02:00:42,610 --> 02:00:46,090
into all the data to you know
try to do what we could to

2111
02:00:47,320 --> 02:00:51,340
justify our participation, and
then when we started looking at

2112
02:00:52,000 --> 02:00:55,690
you know how widely distributed
medals are in the sport of

2113
02:00:55,720 --> 02:00:59,140
wrestling, I mean no no sport
besides track and field gives

2114
02:00:59,620 --> 02:01:01,650
more Olympic medals to more
different countries in

2115
02:01:01,740 --> 02:01:06,150
wrestling, and then you know we
started. I wonder how we, where

2116
02:01:06,180 --> 02:01:09,630
do we line up within Team USA?
And it was at the time we were

2117
02:01:10,080 --> 02:01:14,280
we were tied with diving
ironically. Now my friends at

2118
02:01:14,520 --> 02:01:17,280
basketball are like, Rich, would
you quit saying that because we

2119
02:01:17,370 --> 02:01:21,200
can only win one? And but it's
true. I mean, wrestling is the

2120
02:01:21,290 --> 02:01:24,260
number three all-time
medal-producing sport for Team

2121
02:01:24,320 --> 02:01:27,770
USA, and so I mean that's that's
kind of cool, and I think

2122
02:01:27,830 --> 02:01:31,700
something a lot of people don't
don't realize, but you know,

2123
02:01:32,120 --> 02:01:35,510
this U 23 World Championships,
the Senior World Championships,

2124
02:01:36,380 --> 02:01:41,260
are all part of the equation to
put us in a position to be

2125
02:01:41,440 --> 02:01:46,390
successful in 28, and you know
we we have. I mean we're bullish

2126
02:01:46,570 --> 02:01:51,040
on our on our prospects, and you
know certainly you know on the

2127
02:01:51,100 --> 02:01:55,300
Greco side we're really excited
about the about the trajectory

2128
02:01:55,390 --> 02:01:59,350
that we're starting to build
there, and you know obviously

2129
02:01:59,440 --> 02:02:02,010
want to continue with our with
our men and women's freestyle

2130
02:02:02,100 --> 02:02:07,470
programs, and you know, just you
know, thinking back on in Paris,

2131
02:02:08,580 --> 02:02:14,040
and you know, if you remember in
in in Tokyo, I mean, we had that

2132
02:02:14,100 --> 02:02:21,200
great Olympics in Tokyo, and
then the next cycle, you know,

2133
02:02:21,320 --> 02:02:25,640
Japan had had the best Olympics
in in Paris, and we don't want

2134
02:02:25,820 --> 02:02:28,160
that to happen to us. I mean, we
don't want to wait to Brisbane

2135
02:02:28,430 --> 02:02:31,940
to to to have our Olympics, and
you know, we we're fixing to

2136
02:02:31,970 --> 02:02:38,060
have it in in in L.A. And I
mean, we we I mean, feel really

2137
02:02:38,180 --> 02:02:43,510
confident that the pieces are in
place. I mean, spend 10 minutes

2138
02:02:43,600 --> 02:02:47,800
out in this arena and and look
at how further. I mean, we're

2139
02:02:47,800 --> 02:02:51,310
going to see it today. How how
far along women's wrestling has

2140
02:02:51,640 --> 02:02:51,730
come.

2141
02:02:51,790 --> 02:02:52,180
It's crazy.

2142
02:02:52,449 --> 02:02:57,789
And you know, Greco and in
freestyle here. I mean, it's

2143
02:02:57,999 --> 02:03:01,049
it's incredible the level that
American wrestlers are at right

2144
02:03:01,079 --> 02:03:04,259
now, and you know that's back to
what I said earlier:

2145
02:03:04,889 --> 02:03:07,259
infrastructure, and you know,
state chapter infrastructure,

2146
02:03:07,379 --> 02:03:10,019
regional training center
infrastructure, our school

2147
02:03:10,109 --> 02:03:15,299
college community focus on on on
wrestling and the opportunities.

2148
02:03:15,389 --> 02:03:20,209
I mean, our our school college
program is the envy of the

2149
02:03:20,269 --> 02:03:25,249
entire world, in terms of right,
I mean, 10,000 high schools have

2150
02:03:25,489 --> 02:03:29,719
yeah, maybe 11,000 now, but have
varsity high school wrestling

2151
02:03:29,779 --> 02:03:34,369
programs, and that's, I mean,
that's significant. We should

2152
02:03:34,669 --> 02:03:35,779
dominate. We should

2153
02:03:36,110 --> 02:03:36,470
absolutely,

2154
02:03:36,680 --> 02:03:39,410
and and we're not gonna we're
gonna apologize for dominating.

2155
02:03:39,920 --> 02:03:43,390
By the way, and you know we have
a ways to go, and we can't you

2156
02:03:43,420 --> 02:03:46,480
know be arrogant about it or you
know just assume it's going to

2157
02:03:46,510 --> 02:03:51,190
happen. But I mean, there's a
there's a lot of reasons to

2158
02:03:51,310 --> 02:03:53,620
think that we are on the
precipice of the golden age of

2159
02:03:53,680 --> 02:03:54,130
our sport.

2160
02:03:54,609 --> 02:03:59,019
I love it. That's that's I think
we're going to cap it right

2161
02:03:59,079 --> 02:04:01,889
there. That's the best stuff
right there, Rich Bender. Not

2162
02:04:01,919 --> 02:04:04,619
only thank you for your time on
the podcast, but man, thank you

2163
02:04:04,679 --> 02:04:07,769
so much for for your leadership
and and the infrastructure and

2164
02:04:08,489 --> 02:04:11,609
the the this the again overall
just the overall leadership of

2165
02:04:11,639 --> 02:04:14,549
USA Wrestling. We're in a we're
in a really really really good

2166
02:04:14,609 --> 02:04:17,699
time right now, and and you're a
huge huge part of that.

2167
02:04:18,179 --> 02:04:21,349
Well, I'm blessed and honored
and grateful for what you do,

2168
02:04:21,649 --> 02:04:25,759
and and grateful for what the
sport means to to our society

2169
02:04:25,999 --> 02:04:28,399
and the impact that it has on
countless kids.

2170
02:04:28,880 --> 02:04:31,250
Awesome. Well, thank you. This
is a podcast for legends and

2171
02:04:32,390 --> 02:04:34,610
risk painter. Appreciate you,
man. Yeah, legend. Thanks,

2172
02:04:37,760 --> 02:04:37,850
man.