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Kaisha: All right.

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It's Thursday at 4:20 PM.

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Eastern.

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That means it's time for office hours.

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Roy's weekly session for cultivators
to hear from the experts and

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talk to each other about what
they're seeing with their grows.

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My name is Kaisha, and I'll be co
today with my good friend, Mandy.

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What's up?

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How you doing Mandy?

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Hey, Kaisha.

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So psyched to be here for episode 39.

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Uh, we're also going live over on YouTube.

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I'll be monitoring for
your questions over there.

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So don't be afraid to go ahead and
send them on over, uh, be sure you're

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following us on Instagram and TikTok.

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If you haven't.

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You guys know how we do it.

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So let's go ahead and get to those
crop steering questions we got

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this week back to you, Kaisha.

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Awesome.

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Thank you, Mandy.

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And yeah, if you're alive with us here
and have a question type it in the chat

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at any time, your question gets picked.

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We're gonna either, have
you unmute yourself or I can

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ask for you, Seth and Jason.

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How's it going over there?

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Good.

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Kaisha, how about yourself doing good.

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It was nice to see you last week.

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Um, you ready for our first
question from Instagram?

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We got a bunch this week.

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We're so excited.

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It's

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Jason: not wasting any time.

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Kaisha: dude, I like that.

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All right.

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So someone wrote this in first and
foremost, thank you to everyone, aro

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for the wealth of information than the
professional setting, to learn and gain a

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better understanding of plant physiology.

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My question is as the industry
and home growers move toward full

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spectrum LEDs, could you dive deeper
into the role of RuBisCO in carbon

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fixation and the increased grow room
temperatures you would recommend.

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What do you guys think about that?

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Jason: Sure.

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Uh, so let's just talk a
little bit about RuBisCO.

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Uh, I'm no plant biologist here,
but it is one of the first major.

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Steps, uh, it's the enzyme in
creating the sugars that plants used.

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So it's a carbon fixer that happens
inside the plant before we get to ATP.

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Um, as far as when we talk about
LEDs, I'm, I'm not sure I'm

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qualified to deep dive right into
the science of, uh, Resco production

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itself in relationship to the LEDs.

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But I do like to think about, uh, what
we call room temperature to, um, ratio.

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So it's room temperature to
radiation ratio, excuse me.

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And so when we're looking at that,
we're thinking about how much heat

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is produced on the leaves when the
specific light spectrum hits that leaf.

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Right?

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And so with HPSS, we have quite a
bit of red spectrum light, um, We've

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got quite a bit of infrared light
and those waves are gonna create a

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little bit more heat on the leaves.

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So when we think about changing from
LEDs to, uh, or excuse me from HBS to

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LEDs, a lot of times we're gonna have
to up that room temperature because

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the leave temperature is actually gonna
be decreased due to less radiation

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hitting the surface of those leaves.

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And so in order for us to, you know,
achieve the same leaf P D um, and we

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we've talked about, uh, leaf VPD versus
room VPD, uh, in this case, making a

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modification from HPS to LEDs, you need
to readjust your, your known offset

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between the leaf VPD and the room P D.

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So when, uh, when we increase that.

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Room temperature.

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We can help the plant keep up with
an actually a higher metabolic rate

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versus an HPS simply because we've
got a higher temperature in the room.

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Um, and the leaves aren't working
as hard to reduce their surface

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temperature just with transpiration.

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So, uh, in C3 plants like cannabis,
97% of the water uptake in the plant

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is, uh, expired through transpiration.

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And, uh, sometimes that
transpiration is what is.

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Just keeping the leads.

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Cool.

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And so when, uh, when we're changing
from HPS to L E D, obviously we can

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get a little bit more efficiency.

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Typically, if we do make the
appropriate adjustments, sometimes

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we can actually grow a plant faster.

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Um, the irony there is that we are
hitting the plant with a different

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spectrum, and sometimes that actually
completely modifies how long it

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takes the plant to ripen as well.

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Um, and a lot of times we can get
a bigger plant simply by making

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those changes, increasing our,
uh, metabolic rate in the plant.

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So basically more
photosynthesis can happen.

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Maybe it takes a little bit
longer for that plant to ripen

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throughout the entire cycle.

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But usually if the appropriate
modifications are made, we can end

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up with a little heavier panel.

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Kaisha: Yeah.

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I mean, What it all boils down to
for growers is we want RuBisCOCO.

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Well it's action inside the
plant, inside the cell to be

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operating at an optimal rate.

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If we want the most plant growth, that's
why we're targeting that leaf surface

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temperature, you know, the 80 to 82,
usually that's not just because we, you

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know, we've looked at it and seen, oh,
Hey, plants are happiest at that rate.

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Or they grow the fastest.

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When we start to look back into
the biochemistry behind it, that's

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the temperature that we have the
most optimum interaction and best

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efficiency for these enzymes to start
assembling carbon and making sugars.

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If we slow down the temperature, less
sugar production, let's plant growth.

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Like Jason said, you know, RuBisCO,
go's building these sugars that

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eventually power the cells.

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It ends up as ATP.

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Um, if we don't have the temperature
to actually reinforce that production,

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we don't get as big of a plant.

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So when we're talking about,
you know, running lower temps,

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uh, let's say during generative.

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During stretch.

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That's been, you know, over the
years of strategy, some people have

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employed, especially, let's say in
like a, you know, double tier system

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to keep plant height down because we
know that it's say 78 degrees versus

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82, we have a lower rate of plant
metabolism and a lower rate of stretch.

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Um, as far as RBIS goes, is concerned,
uh, role in how we make our decisions goes

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as though I'm glad someone brought it up.

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That's really cool.

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Backend biochemistry.

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Um, it's not something
we think about directly.

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Typically when we're manipulating
choices, we're manipulating the

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environment in the garden, but
again, that's something everyone

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should be looking into understanding.

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Some of these processes is really cool
because you can kind of get an insight on

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why, you know, why we're looking at that
and then kind of extrapolate, okay, now

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that we look back, if I understand why
we're making these choices, I can really

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identify some of the stuff out there.

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That's bad information.

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You can go, Hey, that, that growth
strategy you have, doesn't really jive

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with how I, I understand plants work,
therefore, uh, you know, maybe I'm

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gonna modify those strategies or decide,
Hey, I'm not gonna risk my crop on, uh,

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running 90 degrees and 80% humidity.

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Let's say you go, okay.

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Maybe it works.

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But from a scientific
perspective, I don't get it.

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Not taking the risk.

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Jason: Yeah.

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And I think last week we mentioned,
uh, the balance as far as, you

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know, crop steering strategies go.

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And, you know, Seth talked about,
you know, lowering temperatures

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for a, a generative signal.

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Well, sometimes if we're pushing
really hard, maybe our irrigation

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schedule is extremely generative and
we have a perfectly sized substrate.

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Sometimes we can keep that temperature
up and mm-hmm,  increase, you know,

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keep that metabolic rate very quickly.

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So we're basically just
tricking the plant physiology.

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So we're using maybe a really, really
hard generative irrigation schedule

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to get that reduced node space, keep
that plant from stretching, um, and,

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and keep those temperatures up and,
and get it growing as fast as possible.

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So I just wanted to mention, you know, it
is that balance that we're talking about.

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And every once in a while, uh, and
specifically we're certain strange,

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you can get away with some, some
cool tricks that end end up, uh,

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giving you a major advantage.

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Kaisha: Yeah.

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And I, and I think an important thing
to remember when you start looking at

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biochemical pathways and stuff is, uh,
you know, if we're looking at just sugar

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production, respiration, those are things
that are happening inside the plant.

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A lot of what we do with plant
morphology control is a lot more, uh,

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dependent on plant growth regulators
in their balance inside plant tissue.

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So although we're, you know, speeding
up and slowing down growth, we're

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also, you know, manipulating different
morphological traits through,

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uh, just plant growth regulators.

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A certain balance will tell
that plant to stretch longer.

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Literally it cells are gonna stretch
more versus divide for the plant to grow.

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So when we're looking at that,
um, don't go too deep and make

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really big decisions based on that.

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Look at, you know, there's a lot of
good standard information out there

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and just understanding the relationship
between some of these backend concepts

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and how we apply them is really
important before you go forward with

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doing some more, uh, I guess radical
strategies that are out there.

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And that's not to say that
some of the stuff we do, wasn't

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considered radical a few years ago.

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Yeah.

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Jason: And you know, when, when we're
analyzing something like RuBisCO

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code, it's probably at the scientific
level versus an application level

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in some of these operational, um,
implementations that we recommend

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and obviously very, very cool stuff.

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Um, how, in the end, you can change
what you're doing in your rooms, uh,

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to modify something like that may
not be as important as what, when

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we look at what we're doing in these
rooms to modify the end output of

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a plant, say that, that morphology.

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So by tricking the, um, physiology to
the morphology for, for an increased.

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Kaisha: Yeah.

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And, uh, you know, heading down that road,
if you're really gonna get that far into

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it, you're gonna start wishing there was
like a C4 photos version of cannabis.

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Like, you know, you're gonna start
to see some of the other, uh,

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other systems that are out there
in different plant species that are

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either more efficient, less efficient.

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Um, you it's, it's more of a botany
implant, physiology, exercise

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and exploration than anything.

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I mean,

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Jason: we've, we've seen what,
uh, what was done with corn

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in the last hundred years.

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So who knows what, uh, what
grow in like a century from now

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Kaisha: true?

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Oh, my goodness.

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Cannabis is century from now.

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Let me, let me focus.

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Okay.

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uh, we got a question here from our good
friend Billbo who's on with us live.

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Billbo you wanna unmute yourself
and ask it or shall I ask for you?

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No, I'm here.

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Hey, welcome.

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Hi.

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Is there any evidence to suggest that
environmental settings should be adjusted

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during different steering techniques
and to expand on that a little bit?

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Well beyond, uh, the, the norms
of what you'd see within, I guess,

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the HPS double-ended world and your
L E D world given transpiration

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rates and light spectrum.

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Jason: Um, you know, that's gonna
kind of come down to genetics.

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Uh, you know, there's some genetics that
can take advantage of say five, six degree

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increase in room temperature when we
switch from something like HPS to LEDs.

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Um, you know, another thing to think
about as well is when we've decreased

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the amount of water going through
the plant, just for transpiration.

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Now we have more, uh, water in
that plant that's, uh, being used

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for, um, for growth processes.

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And so we're probably gonna have to up
the EC when we get under LEDs, because

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the we're not transpiring quite as much.

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Kaisha: Yeah.

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I mean, really a lot of what it boils
down to is that leaf surface difference

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or leaf surface temp difference, right?

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Like with our I lights, we've
got a lot of radiant heat coming

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out with the LEDs we don't.

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So the difference is usually with, I D
we're seeing two to five degrees above

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room temp at the leaf surface led.

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We're seeing, you know, one to four
degrees below room temp typically.

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So, and especially once you factor
in your ventilation, you've got

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fans blowing around in there.

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So really it's just accounting
for that difference.

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And then understanding that what
we're chasing is that leaf surface

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00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,240
temp, and really trying to dial
that in, you know, we're trying to

233
00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,840
keep everything stable in the room
and do what the plant's telling us.

234
00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:32,300
It wants us to do essentially following
its cues rather than, you know, focusing

235
00:11:32,300 --> 00:11:38,329
on, uh, what if, if my leaf surface
temp says 78 and my room's running at

236
00:11:38,334 --> 00:11:42,800
82, um, my room might end up running
at 86 and, you know, normally for me.

237
00:11:43,370 --> 00:11:45,560
I would be like, whoa, what's going on?

238
00:11:45,650 --> 00:11:46,580
I'd do that with customers.

239
00:11:46,580 --> 00:11:49,880
Actually, sometimes I'm like, Hey,
it says your room's pretty hot.

240
00:11:49,940 --> 00:11:50,750
Oh, we have LEDs.

241
00:11:50,780 --> 00:11:51,170
Okay.

242
00:11:51,230 --> 00:11:53,150
Well then we don't have to worry about it.

243
00:11:53,155 --> 00:11:56,450
It's just, it's a, it's a simple math
problem that needs correcting basically.

244
00:11:57,530 --> 00:11:57,890
Jason: Yeah.

245
00:11:57,950 --> 00:12:00,830
And you know, anyone that is
making that transition, I guess the

246
00:12:00,835 --> 00:12:04,910
easiest way to know how much you'd
need to adjust is go in and take

247
00:12:04,910 --> 00:12:06,410
some leaf surface temperatures.

248
00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:11,660
Uh, you know, I recommend taking quite a
few samples, a across the, the Leafs some

249
00:12:11,660 --> 00:12:15,230
up in, in the higher canopies, some up in
the lower canopy and compare that to the

250
00:12:15,230 --> 00:12:18,890
leaf surface temperatures you were seeing
in, in IDs and just up your room, the,

251
00:12:18,950 --> 00:12:23,540
the temperature difference that you see,
um, from the original leaf temp to the,

252
00:12:23,630 --> 00:12:25,640
the leaf temp after you've changed LEDs.

253
00:12:26,570 --> 00:12:26,900
Kaisha: Yeah.

254
00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:31,430
And, uh, also if you are budgeting
for LEDs budget for more deh capacity,

255
00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:36,920
generally, if you can't push higher
than a two with your IDs, uh you're

256
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,560
you're not gonna be able to cut it
with your LEDs, given the same size

257
00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:41,840
room and same Dehut deh equipment.

258
00:12:44,930 --> 00:12:45,290
That's great.

259
00:12:45,290 --> 00:12:47,270
Billbo did you get your
questions answered there?

260
00:12:48,109 --> 00:12:48,949
Yes.

261
00:12:49,430 --> 00:12:49,790
Awesome.

262
00:12:49,849 --> 00:12:50,750
Thank you for submitting.

263
00:12:50,750 --> 00:12:51,620
That's a good one.

264
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:52,729
All right.

265
00:12:52,729 --> 00:12:55,880
Another one of our attendees
mark is on with us.

266
00:12:55,900 --> 00:12:57,439
Posted a question here, mark.

267
00:12:57,439 --> 00:12:58,370
You wanna ask it?

268
00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,390
You're you're he's he's busy.

269
00:13:01,060 --> 00:13:02,270
He's busy back there.

270
00:13:04,670 --> 00:13:05,300
Yeah, I'll ask it.

271
00:13:05,479 --> 00:13:05,969
Okay.

272
00:13:23,110 --> 00:13:30,680
Goi right now, um, the, the EC,
so we use trim master sensors, uh,

273
00:13:30,709 --> 00:13:32,209
right at water content sensors.

274
00:13:32,214 --> 00:13:33,829
The WCS ones were crack.

275
00:13:33,829 --> 00:13:35,030
We got WCS twos.

276
00:13:35,030 --> 00:13:37,010
Now they're a little
better, but they're still.

277
00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:38,840
Far from optimal.

278
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:46,430
Uh, uh, the, what we're finding is
the EC is affecting the WC, right?

279
00:13:46,970 --> 00:13:51,260
Uh, so we are, uh, at least the
reading that we're getting from

280
00:13:51,260 --> 00:13:52,580
the control master controller.

281
00:13:53,060 --> 00:13:58,460
So, um, when we drop the EC from
like 3.0 to 2.0 week seven, let's

282
00:13:58,465 --> 00:14:03,500
say, uh, it, it takes, uh, the medium
a couple days to balance out what

283
00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:04,910
it's gonna be for the next week.

284
00:14:05,270 --> 00:14:08,900
And we're chasing the water content
because it's dropping too damn

285
00:14:08,905 --> 00:14:10,640
fast and we know it's not accurate.

286
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:16,670
Um, so, but, but the readings that we're
getting are, are, are, are not reliable.

287
00:14:17,300 --> 00:14:21,240
Um, and, uh, I've, I've got
a, I've got a system, a DIY

288
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:22,490
system in place that is water.

289
00:14:23,210 --> 00:14:27,200
Based on, uh, water content
readings from those sensors.

290
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,420
So I have to be able to trust them.

291
00:14:29,780 --> 00:14:30,380
And I don't.

292
00:14:31,820 --> 00:14:32,150
Jason: Yeah.

293
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:35,330
So I, I guess this kind, let's just
talk about the root of this challenge.

294
00:14:35,330 --> 00:14:41,180
And it comes from, uh, most of the sensors
that are in these industries have come

295
00:14:41,180 --> 00:14:45,920
from traditional horticulture practices
and we don't necessarily see the type

296
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:51,560
of EC levels that we can run in cannabis
for most, uh, most productive growth.

297
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,640
And so, you know, in something like
if we're trying to grow, uh, you know,

298
00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:01,220
lettuce or even tomatoes who are typically
never gonna see something in that say five

299
00:15:01,220 --> 00:15:06,020
to 10 EC range, it's just way, way beyond
what the plants will happily tolerate.

300
00:15:06,350 --> 00:15:11,870
And so, you know, a lot of the sensors
out there ha have not been calibrated

301
00:15:11,870 --> 00:15:15,290
appropriately or simply don't have
the ability to read water content

302
00:15:15,290 --> 00:15:17,450
appropriately at those high ECS.

303
00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:23,495
And we're fortunate enough that you know,
that the terrorist 12 is, uh, A lot of

304
00:15:23,495 --> 00:15:28,475
generations beyond where our first, uh,
EC water content sensor was, uh, you

305
00:15:28,475 --> 00:15:31,685
know, we've been developing these for
about three, three decades at this point.

306
00:15:32,045 --> 00:15:37,235
Um, and so what we've done is
just calibrate those up into say

307
00:15:37,235 --> 00:15:41,135
the 20 to semen range to, to try
and hold accuracy throughout.

308
00:15:41,495 --> 00:15:46,655
Um, you know, fortunately we use a
patented circuitry in there that is

309
00:15:46,655 --> 00:15:51,545
able to support a fairly accurate,
um, calibration across the board.

310
00:15:51,905 --> 00:15:55,775
You know why we do see some amount of
changes, you know, effective of water

311
00:15:55,775 --> 00:16:00,665
content on EC it's very negligible
with the tariffs 12, um, that can't be

312
00:16:00,665 --> 00:16:04,835
said for, uh, some other sensors out
there, maybe the Klima or, or the troll

313
00:16:04,835 --> 00:16:09,215
master, you know, especially some of
the, the more cost cutting, uh, types

314
00:16:09,215 --> 00:16:12,875
of sensors out there, or, or some of the
companies that, that don't quite have the

315
00:16:12,875 --> 00:16:16,655
research history that that meter group
does supporting, uh, aro in this case.

316
00:16:17,015 --> 00:16:21,140
Um, I don't necessarily have a
great recommendation on how you

317
00:16:21,140 --> 00:16:25,220
can get around that other than
maybe trying to, to map exactly how

318
00:16:25,220 --> 00:16:27,320
far off it is with your sensors.

319
00:16:27,650 --> 00:16:30,620
Um, and, or, or try, try to get
into a little better sensor suite.

320
00:16:31,850 --> 00:16:32,420
Yikes.

321
00:16:32,780 --> 00:16:34,700
Kaisha: Uh, yeah, I was just
trying to see if the, if the

322
00:16:35,060 --> 00:16:37,390
platform handles that, uh, better.

323
00:16:37,390 --> 00:16:40,610
Cause I feel like it's just,
it's sort of like a math equation

324
00:16:40,610 --> 00:16:41,960
based on what's being read.

325
00:16:43,010 --> 00:16:43,340
Yeah.

326
00:16:43,340 --> 00:16:46,070
And you know, one thing to remember
too, if you've got a calibrating

327
00:16:46,075 --> 00:16:47,810
sensor, that's gonna be really hard.

328
00:16:47,815 --> 00:16:50,990
The more times you calibrate it to be
accurate because what we use as a solid

329
00:16:50,990 --> 00:16:52,820
state calibration leaving the factory.

330
00:16:52,820 --> 00:16:57,530
So when we're calculating the information
coming in off that sensor, when Roy is

331
00:16:57,535 --> 00:17:02,060
dealing or, uh, processing that we there
there's no changed variable in there.

332
00:17:02,060 --> 00:17:06,320
There's no trusting that, you know, the
cultivator went and set, you know, max

333
00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,320
saturation at max saturation with VWC.

334
00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:10,490
It just is what it is.

335
00:17:10,610 --> 00:17:12,170
And there's no cut, you
know, it's cut and dry.

336
00:17:12,350 --> 00:17:13,340
There's no question on it.

337
00:17:14,660 --> 00:17:15,020
Okay.

338
00:17:15,260 --> 00:17:16,970
Um, Thanks my second.

339
00:17:16,970 --> 00:17:20,569
My second question is on the,
the open sprinkler integration.

340
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:28,200
Um, uh, I I've, uh, like I said, I've
developed my, my system based on the,

341
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:33,710
the, the readings we get from the,
take it out on and home automation.

342
00:17:34,730 --> 00:17:39,890
Um, but it's, it's got a lot to be
desired as well, but we're making due.

343
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:44,750
Um, so the, how, how is it handled?

344
00:17:44,750 --> 00:17:49,190
Like if you wanted to feed one strain
differently in, in, in the same room

345
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:54,500
or maybe there different harvest groups
going on in a room, would you actually

346
00:17:54,500 --> 00:18:00,680
feed those, uh, zones differently based
on your, uh, water content reading and.

347
00:18:01,445 --> 00:18:02,435
Just real quick, mark.

348
00:18:02,435 --> 00:18:05,975
Just wanna let you know, we're gonna
have a whole episode dedicated to,

349
00:18:06,035 --> 00:18:07,685
uh, the open sprinkler integration.

350
00:18:07,685 --> 00:18:08,495
Very, very soon.

351
00:18:08,495 --> 00:18:09,965
We're gonna be making
that announcement soon.

352
00:18:09,970 --> 00:18:11,255
We're working hard at work on it.

353
00:18:11,255 --> 00:18:13,025
So I just wanted to clarify that.

354
00:18:13,030 --> 00:18:16,085
And then Seth and Jason, I don't know
if you wanted to speak to his question

355
00:18:16,085 --> 00:18:16,445
Jason: anyway.

356
00:18:16,820 --> 00:18:17,210
Sure.

357
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:18,050
Absolutely.

358
00:18:18,050 --> 00:18:20,780
And you know, the answer is yes.

359
00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:24,830
Uh, if you have the energy to be
able to steer crops differently in

360
00:18:24,830 --> 00:18:29,510
a room that is multi cropped, then,
uh, your plants will reward you

361
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,370
with that, that type of dedication.

362
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,310
Um, at some of the larger
facilities, we see that they just

363
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:37,070
have too much complexity to be
able to manage some of that stuff.

364
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:42,470
Um, and as far as the, the details
in the open sprinkler itself, yes,

365
00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:46,100
you can run different irrigation
schedules for, uh, different zones.

366
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,520
Uh, the wonderful thing about the
array integration is, you know, we're,

367
00:18:49,525 --> 00:18:53,570
we're mapped our zones directly to
the channels on that open sprinkler.

368
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:58,010
So, you know, you have a, a mapped visual
of which zones are, are related to which

369
00:18:58,010 --> 00:19:03,080
harvest group you can change the timing
on each of those harvest groups as well.

370
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,440
So maybe we have, uh, one set of
plants in there that prefers a,

371
00:19:06,445 --> 00:19:09,590
a shorter generative, uh, cycle.

372
00:19:09,860 --> 00:19:14,600
And a longer bulking vegetative cycle
then, uh, then you can just map that

373
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:19,010
out even before you get that, that
plant started and we're gonna up update

374
00:19:19,010 --> 00:19:22,460
the irrigation schedule when each of
those different harvest groups land

375
00:19:22,465 --> 00:19:24,230
at that point in the plant life cycle.

376
00:19:25,730 --> 00:19:25,940
Great.

377
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:26,600
Well

378
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:26,880
Kaisha: done.

379
00:19:28,550 --> 00:19:29,220
Awesome.

380
00:19:29,220 --> 00:19:30,680
Thank you, mark, for your question.

381
00:19:30,980 --> 00:19:32,690
Um, yeah, it's popping over on YouTube.

382
00:19:32,690 --> 00:19:34,580
So I'm gonna get to get
some of those questions.

383
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,400
Hoffman's choice from Detroit rode in.

384
00:19:37,850 --> 00:19:41,960
Do you guys have any irrigation guidelines
for freshly transplanted plants in

385
00:19:41,965 --> 00:19:43,970
order to invoke root production?

386
00:19:44,180 --> 00:19:47,780
Currently I water every four hours
until I see some real dry back

387
00:19:47,810 --> 00:19:49,610
and then I change any advice.

388
00:19:50,660 --> 00:19:53,870
Uh, you know, that's, that's not
too bad provided you're putting on

389
00:19:53,875 --> 00:19:55,640
very, very small shots at a time.

390
00:19:56,030 --> 00:19:58,880
You know, typically what we want to
do is after transplant, give that

391
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:03,560
plant one to two very small shots per
day, as we watch that water con that

392
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,330
volumetric water content line fall.

393
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,800
So basically we don't wanna bring
it back up to field capacity until

394
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,710
we've achieved a pretty decent
drive back typically about what we'd

395
00:20:12,710 --> 00:20:14,180
wanna see in our generative steers.

396
00:20:14,185 --> 00:20:19,010
So that 15 to 20% minimum, but the
key is we're giving it fresh water

397
00:20:19,010 --> 00:20:22,910
every day to keep that root zone
aerobic and not suffer any damping

398
00:20:22,915 --> 00:20:25,460
off or root rod issues that'll happen.

399
00:20:25,465 --> 00:20:28,400
And you know, the other thing you remember
too, especially if you're transplanting,

400
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:34,790
you know, on top of slabs or unit blocks,
plant roots, don't know what gravity is.

401
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:36,290
They don't know to grow down.

402
00:20:36,620 --> 00:20:39,710
They follow the path of water and they
follow the path of water by following

403
00:20:39,710 --> 00:20:42,590
the air that the water sucks in behind
it, into the pours in the media.

404
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:47,420
So we have to give those plants
or those roots, a path to follow.

405
00:20:47,420 --> 00:20:48,140
If we don't.

406
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,700
Typically is not gonna be a very
stimulating growth into your transplant

407
00:20:52,700 --> 00:20:54,530
media, especially if it's on top.

408
00:20:55,310 --> 00:20:58,640
And we, you know, we just wanna make sure
they're healthy and fresh the whole time.

409
00:20:59,030 --> 00:21:01,850
You don't want to just neglect
them for two weeks or a week.

410
00:21:02,780 --> 00:21:03,140
Jason: Yeah.

411
00:21:03,170 --> 00:21:06,800
So I just gonna say the same thing
basically in different words.

412
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:12,590
And one is, um, those daily irrigations
are encouraging, uh, plant growth.

413
00:21:12,590 --> 00:21:14,330
They are simulating the
growth of the roots.

414
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,860
Uh, when we overwater our plants
are gonna get lazy and they're not

415
00:21:18,860 --> 00:21:21,740
gonna seek out that lower media
and mean Gulf fit as quickly.

416
00:21:22,010 --> 00:21:27,410
Um, and, uh, if we underwater, we're
just gonna stunt the growth of the plant.

417
00:21:27,470 --> 00:21:29,690
So it's the happy medium in between there.

418
00:21:29,780 --> 00:21:32,210
And, uh, you know, and it
sounds like you're on a pretty

419
00:21:32,210 --> 00:21:34,490
good path, uh, to doing that.

420
00:21:34,495 --> 00:21:38,570
So usually we just call it a dry down
segment, uh, while we're rooting in.

421
00:21:38,750 --> 00:21:41,600
And that is, you know, every day
we wanna see the overall water

422
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,610
content decrease after transplant.

423
00:21:43,940 --> 00:21:46,910
We wanna make sure we do get those
irrigations in there on a daily basis.

424
00:21:47,210 --> 00:21:53,510
And once we see that, uh, that water
content hit a say, 15 or 20% decrease

425
00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:57,500
from original transplant, then, then
let's move into some generative steering.

426
00:21:58,280 --> 00:21:58,460
Kaisha: Yeah.

427
00:21:58,460 --> 00:22:00,650
What I can say honestly, is that
was something that was always a

428
00:22:00,650 --> 00:22:04,040
little frustrating without, uh,
without monitoring equipment.

429
00:22:04,490 --> 00:22:07,280
You know, it seemed like some plants
had be nailing it on and then a

430
00:22:07,285 --> 00:22:10,550
quarter the table, like they're way
overwatered, you know, and now I can

431
00:22:10,550 --> 00:22:14,450
actually quantify that and say, all
right, across this veg table, let me

432
00:22:14,455 --> 00:22:17,990
put on this small shot that I know is
not gonna overwater any of these plants.

433
00:22:17,990 --> 00:22:20,600
And I also know that I've got a few days
where I'm still just gonna be putting on

434
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,100
those small shots and chasing it down.

435
00:22:22,460 --> 00:22:27,260
And, you know, without the tools, it's
really, it's a lot harder to have the

436
00:22:27,260 --> 00:22:30,320
confidence that you're doing the right
thing, you know, especially if you can't

437
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,800
look back and say, Hey, that's where
we messed up last time, even though

438
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,300
we're trying to do the same strategy.

439
00:22:37,210 --> 00:22:40,520
It's all about having the tools to
do your job better growers also.

440
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,680
And we had another question
coming over on YouTube.

441
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:47,240
Lou wants to know can, and should
your sensors be calibrated to a

442
00:22:47,245 --> 00:22:52,160
specific soilless substrate per meter
group's directions in order to achieve

443
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:58,070
plus or minus, um, accurate one to
2% accuracy, especially in cocoa.

444
00:22:58,610 --> 00:23:04,190
Um, for example, based on its use of
substrates, uh, dye electric properties,

445
00:23:04,250 --> 00:23:08,930
does the sensor account for the difference
between the makeup of a hor grow purchase,

446
00:23:09,020 --> 00:23:13,940
uh, versus Dutch Plantin, cocoa pot,
smaller, uh, larger sizes of cocoa.

447
00:23:14,420 --> 00:23:17,750
Sorry, that's a lot in, uh, one question,
but, uh, I can repeat it if you.

448
00:23:18,875 --> 00:23:25,625
Jason: Um, so from our opinion, it's
not worth doing a specific calibration

449
00:23:25,625 --> 00:23:29,855
between, uh, two different types of,
uh, soilless medias, especially if

450
00:23:29,855 --> 00:23:34,385
you're within cocoa, um, or within
rockwool or within a cocoa Pete per

451
00:23:34,385 --> 00:23:36,485
light makes any of that type of stuff.

452
00:23:36,545 --> 00:23:41,195
Um, and, and the reason is, is
mostly because it's gonna be hard

453
00:23:41,195 --> 00:23:45,485
to see that amount of accuracy,
even between sensor installations

454
00:23:45,485 --> 00:23:46,835
across the facilities, right?

455
00:23:46,835 --> 00:23:51,935
Mm-hmm  so that last, you know, one
or 2% that we might gain from being

456
00:23:52,235 --> 00:23:56,075
specifically calibrated, we're not
gonna be able to reach that with the,

457
00:23:56,135 --> 00:23:58,775
with even a great sensor installation.

458
00:23:59,075 --> 00:24:01,235
Um, and the.

459
00:24:01,845 --> 00:24:05,565
I guess stepping back and, and taking
the, the whole value of it is really

460
00:24:05,565 --> 00:24:07,875
looking at the time series data as well.

461
00:24:08,055 --> 00:24:10,455
So we've got a population of plants.

462
00:24:10,695 --> 00:24:16,065
We've got sensors in a sample of that
population, uh, that sample, you know,

463
00:24:16,065 --> 00:24:19,485
even at some of the best growers,
I'll see, you know, 5% variation

464
00:24:19,485 --> 00:24:23,685
from, uh, top water content to bottom
water content in, in those samples.

465
00:24:23,955 --> 00:24:30,045
And so, uh, I guess, uh, from my
standpoint, um, you know, without

466
00:24:30,195 --> 00:24:35,355
trying to, trying to, um, get too
offensive is just that there's

467
00:24:35,505 --> 00:24:37,485
energy spent better elsewhere.

468
00:24:38,475 --> 00:24:38,715
Kaisha: Yeah.

469
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,455
I, I mean, I think you
brought up an important point.

470
00:24:40,455 --> 00:24:43,665
Jason, when we're looking at
this room, it's, it's dynamic.

471
00:24:43,665 --> 00:24:46,125
We don't have a set value
for all the plants in it.

472
00:24:46,605 --> 00:24:49,515
And that's why, you know, whenever
we're talking about like water content

473
00:24:49,515 --> 00:24:52,485
values for crop sharing strategies,
especially in terms of dry back,

474
00:24:53,055 --> 00:24:56,385
we're always patting everything
with about 5%, if not a little more.

475
00:24:56,775 --> 00:24:59,145
And actually it's gonna depend when
we go and look across your room.

476
00:24:59,975 --> 00:25:03,935
If, uh, you've got five sensors in
there and five benches and you run

477
00:25:03,935 --> 00:25:07,175
out and take 25 spot measurements,
and then we discover that, Hey, you

478
00:25:07,175 --> 00:25:09,125
got about 10% variance on each bench.

479
00:25:10,115 --> 00:25:11,735
Those are the parameters
we have to work in.

480
00:25:12,245 --> 00:25:15,155
At that point, we know that based
on our one sensor that might say

481
00:25:15,155 --> 00:25:17,495
50%, we have another plan at 40%.

482
00:25:17,495 --> 00:25:19,745
So we've got a plan for
the best worlds for both.

483
00:25:19,745 --> 00:25:21,845
We're playing a game of
averages at the end of the day.

484
00:25:22,385 --> 00:25:26,945
So, you know, just like in
statistics, when we see one outlier,

485
00:25:26,945 --> 00:25:29,615
sometimes it's initially concern.

486
00:25:29,705 --> 00:25:32,855
But if we look at the whole and
what we're actually able to treat

487
00:25:33,335 --> 00:25:37,835
practically, then we can kind of dial
it back and say, okay, that one to 2%

488
00:25:37,835 --> 00:25:40,175
may not be the most important thing.

489
00:25:40,175 --> 00:25:44,885
And one thing to remember too, um,
you know, there, there is a certain

490
00:25:44,885 --> 00:25:48,905
amount of, uh, user skill involved
in using some of these like highly

491
00:25:48,905 --> 00:25:50,315
precise, scientific instruments.

492
00:25:50,915 --> 00:25:54,515
And I say precise and not accurate because
accuracy can come down to that user skill.

493
00:25:54,815 --> 00:25:55,565
If we want to go back.

494
00:25:56,375 --> 00:26:00,545
2030 years, we could be using only soil
moisture potentiometers and I can give

495
00:26:00,545 --> 00:26:04,805
you a pot that I know because I weigh it
dry and I put X amount of water in it,

496
00:26:05,255 --> 00:26:06,815
and I know how much water's in there.

497
00:26:07,085 --> 00:26:07,745
I can give it to you.

498
00:26:07,745 --> 00:26:10,115
And I guarantee the first 10 or
20 times, you're not gonna get

499
00:26:10,115 --> 00:26:13,805
the right value because that
instrument's difficult to use.

500
00:26:14,285 --> 00:26:17,735
There is a large amount of user skill
involved in attaining that and what

501
00:26:17,735 --> 00:26:22,355
we've got here at Aurea, you know, at the
tariffs, 12 is much easier to use than

502
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:24,095
anything that's existed historically.

503
00:26:24,145 --> 00:26:29,195
However, um, that doesn't
mean that it's super easy.

504
00:26:29,675 --> 00:26:30,965
That doesn't mean it absolutely works.

505
00:26:30,970 --> 00:26:33,665
If you just jam it in, you know, these
probes are designed to be in constant

506
00:26:33,665 --> 00:26:35,585
contact with both media and water.

507
00:26:36,365 --> 00:26:39,815
Well, if you don't put it in far
enough, or if it scoots out a little

508
00:26:39,815 --> 00:26:43,475
bit, or if we happen to have some
inconsistent media with a big hollow

509
00:26:43,475 --> 00:26:48,725
spot, um, if you're still using perlite
as a big crutch, there's a lot of

510
00:26:48,725 --> 00:26:52,625
things that can really make it, um,
difficult to get an accurate reading.

511
00:26:52,945 --> 00:26:56,885
And it's important to structure
your processes around that.

512
00:26:56,885 --> 00:27:00,875
You know, just little things like if
you've got the terrace 12 and the sous,

513
00:27:02,045 --> 00:27:05,405
you know, for a second, if you're running
around and worried that, Hey, my sous

514
00:27:05,405 --> 00:27:07,085
readings are always a few percent off.

515
00:27:07,925 --> 00:27:09,935
What my TAs reading is in you.

516
00:27:10,025 --> 00:27:10,325
Okay.

517
00:27:10,325 --> 00:27:12,725
Well that terrace reading's been in
there for a few months with roots growing

518
00:27:12,725 --> 00:27:17,075
around it, your sous you're jamming it
in every time you're each installation is

519
00:27:17,075 --> 00:27:22,235
opening up a possibility for a variable
in your own processes and inaccuracy.

520
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:27,665
So you've always gotta look at like, yes,
we've got accuracy and precision and data.

521
00:27:27,695 --> 00:27:29,585
How precise are.

522
00:27:30,245 --> 00:27:34,355
The things we're measuring, because if
we looked at that table, you know, we're

523
00:27:34,355 --> 00:27:37,535
looking at precision it's how close
are your measurements to each other?

524
00:27:37,925 --> 00:27:41,285
Well, if your table itself, isn't
very precise, you can't expect to get

525
00:27:41,315 --> 00:27:43,205
very precise even with the best tools.

526
00:27:45,215 --> 00:27:45,485
Jason: Yeah.

527
00:27:45,490 --> 00:27:47,255
And, uh, absolutely.

528
00:27:47,260 --> 00:27:51,515
You know, if you've got your drippers,
uh, within 1% of each other, if you've

529
00:27:51,515 --> 00:27:56,765
got your clone and plant growth rates,
as consistent as 1% within each other,

530
00:27:57,035 --> 00:27:59,705
then, uh, then you're on top of the game.

531
00:27:59,855 --> 00:28:03,935
Um, you're, you're the
absolute best in the industry.

532
00:28:03,935 --> 00:28:08,075
If, if that's that's the level that
you're at and we're always working to,

533
00:28:08,075 --> 00:28:12,155
to make our stuff better calibrated
in different dialectic medias.

534
00:28:12,575 --> 00:28:12,815
Kaisha: Yeah.

535
00:28:12,965 --> 00:28:14,045
I'll be perfectly honest.

536
00:28:14,045 --> 00:28:17,555
If, if you're down to the point where
1% matters to you for volumetric water

537
00:28:17,555 --> 00:28:20,525
content, or you feel that it does
in your performance, you wouldn't

538
00:28:20,530 --> 00:28:23,885
be here listening to what Jason and
I have to say, you'd be rolling in

539
00:28:23,885 --> 00:28:25,565
your money and on vacation probably.

540
00:28:27,335 --> 00:28:29,075
Maybe, I don't know,
that's the dream, right?

541
00:28:29,075 --> 00:28:29,915
If you're successful.

542
00:28:32,085 --> 00:28:32,755
awesome.

543
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:33,395
Thanks for that.

544
00:28:33,395 --> 00:28:34,835
Um, Lu said thank you very much.

545
00:28:34,835 --> 00:28:36,005
Makes a lot of sense.

546
00:28:36,035 --> 00:28:39,005
Um, that's the last question over on
YouTube for now, but uh, you guys keep

547
00:28:39,005 --> 00:28:40,705
sending those in back over to you, Kaisha.

548
00:28:41,015 --> 00:28:41,795
Thank you, Mandy.

549
00:28:41,795 --> 00:28:42,065
Yeah.

550
00:28:42,070 --> 00:28:42,365
Thanks.

551
00:28:42,365 --> 00:28:45,305
YouTube said drop those questions
to over to us so we can get 'em

552
00:28:45,305 --> 00:28:47,915
answered, but we do have a couple
of our attendees here with us.

553
00:28:47,915 --> 00:28:49,565
Dropped a couple questions in the chat.

554
00:28:49,985 --> 00:28:52,505
Billbo you wanna go ahead
and unmute, unmute yourself

555
00:28:52,505 --> 00:28:53,615
and ask your next question.

556
00:28:54,875 --> 00:28:55,265
Okay.

557
00:28:55,265 --> 00:28:56,765
It's probably a repeat.

558
00:28:57,725 --> 00:29:01,415
Are you going to add leaf surface
temperature readings to your platform?

559
00:29:03,740 --> 00:29:08,000
Jason: Um, you know, over the years
we've had a ton of requests for it.

560
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:14,450
Uh, since leave surface temperature is
usually fairly constant in reference

561
00:29:14,455 --> 00:29:18,410
to room temperature, as long as other
variables, aren't changed such as

562
00:29:18,410 --> 00:29:24,050
light type as we discussed earlier, uh,
typically you can infer and, or make the

563
00:29:24,050 --> 00:29:26,540
same decisions with a room temperature.

564
00:29:26,900 --> 00:29:33,620
Um, so we don't currently have any plans
to release a leaf surface temperature

565
00:29:33,620 --> 00:29:36,950
in our, in our interface right now
that doesn't mean that we won't at

566
00:29:36,955 --> 00:29:40,370
some point in the future, we've just,
uh, we've got some, some other goals

567
00:29:40,375 --> 00:29:42,020
that we're, we're staying focused on.

568
00:29:42,830 --> 00:29:43,130
Kaisha: Yeah.

569
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:45,170
And part of that, can I add to that?

570
00:29:45,230 --> 00:29:49,580
Um, why Jason brings that up is if
I was out there taking temperature,

571
00:29:49,580 --> 00:29:53,810
leaf leaf temperature samples all
day, am I getting a more accurate VP

572
00:29:53,810 --> 00:29:55,790
D at, you know, right around the leaf?

573
00:29:55,850 --> 00:29:56,150
Sure.

574
00:29:56,750 --> 00:30:01,175
But if I go do that 20 times and I
watch my VPD on the meter, I know

575
00:30:01,175 --> 00:30:05,585
that under my conditions in this
amount of light, this VPD number

576
00:30:05,585 --> 00:30:07,145
means this leaf surface temperature.

577
00:30:07,565 --> 00:30:10,655
And that, you know, as far as
Jason talking about being steady

578
00:30:10,660 --> 00:30:13,205
state, that's kind of reflected
when we look at VPD charts, we're

579
00:30:13,205 --> 00:30:16,355
always correcting for leaf surface
temperature and we're doing air VPD.

580
00:30:16,925 --> 00:30:19,685
So almost any quick chart you look
up, you're gonna be able to reference

581
00:30:19,685 --> 00:30:24,395
like, okay, are we plus 1, 2, 3,
4, or minus 1, 2, 3, 4 on leaf 10.

582
00:30:24,875 --> 00:30:31,565
So it is important, but the actual
number that you're adjusting your system.

583
00:30:32,405 --> 00:30:36,515
The things that let's say your HVAC
system can sense is not leaf surface VPD.

584
00:30:36,515 --> 00:30:38,735
So we've gotta take that and
transfer it into a number that

585
00:30:38,735 --> 00:30:40,055
we can actually work with.

586
00:30:41,375 --> 00:30:41,675
Jason: Yeah.

587
00:30:41,675 --> 00:30:44,975
And, and kind of just thinking
about how, um, leaf surface

588
00:30:45,035 --> 00:30:46,355
samples are taken right now.

589
00:30:46,595 --> 00:30:50,575
Um, Most commonly is done
with the infrared thermometer.

590
00:30:50,875 --> 00:30:55,405
Uh, one of the things that I loved doing
as a cultivator was actually taking a

591
00:30:55,405 --> 00:31:00,175
thermal camera in there, a and checking
out the dynamics across the plant, as

592
00:31:00,175 --> 00:31:01,705
far as leaf surface temperature went.

593
00:31:01,945 --> 00:31:05,905
So instead of having very small point
measurement, I could capture a whole plant

594
00:31:05,935 --> 00:31:10,045
or a whole canopy and, and check out all
right, here's the temperature of my buds,

595
00:31:10,045 --> 00:31:11,485
where I'm not getting transpiration.

596
00:31:11,755 --> 00:31:15,805
Here's the, the top level temperature
of, of my plants, which one, which

597
00:31:15,865 --> 00:31:18,955
are the ones that are getting the
most radiation from the lights.

598
00:31:18,955 --> 00:31:20,935
And, and here's the
temperature down lower.

599
00:31:21,105 --> 00:31:25,635
Um, also fun to check out, uh, check out
your planters with that thermal camera.

600
00:31:25,845 --> 00:31:28,695
You some sometimes see that
the water flow, just because of

601
00:31:28,695 --> 00:31:31,695
the changes and temperatures of
irrigation from the drippers.

602
00:31:31,995 --> 00:31:35,715
Uh, I was able to catch a lot
of clog drippers and emitters

603
00:31:35,715 --> 00:31:36,975
because of the thermal camera.

604
00:31:36,975 --> 00:31:40,825
I could see that, Hey, the left side
of my planter is not getting cooled

605
00:31:40,985 --> 00:31:42,855
off for my, from my irrigation systems.

606
00:31:43,125 --> 00:31:47,955
Um, so if you know, you have the,
the resources to do so in the time

607
00:31:47,955 --> 00:31:49,755
and interest, uh, go check it out.

608
00:31:49,755 --> 00:31:54,405
You can definitely learn a lot about,
uh, your plants from, from doing that.

609
00:31:55,035 --> 00:31:55,185
Kaisha: Yeah.

610
00:31:55,185 --> 00:31:56,115
And that's a good point too.

611
00:31:56,115 --> 00:31:57,825
And we're trying to dial
leaf surface temperature.

612
00:31:57,825 --> 00:32:00,225
We wanna look at, you know,
the leaf surface temperature

613
00:32:00,225 --> 00:32:01,845
across the plant as well.

614
00:32:02,235 --> 00:32:05,235
If we just dial into those top
nugs, then our bottom Lu nugs,

615
00:32:05,295 --> 00:32:06,465
probably aren't gonna look too great.

616
00:32:07,215 --> 00:32:09,705
So we really wanna look at
that whole plant and say,

617
00:32:09,705 --> 00:32:11,025
okay, what are we equating to?

618
00:32:11,030 --> 00:32:15,125
You know,  at this level of light
exposure and least surface temperature.

619
00:32:15,125 --> 00:32:17,165
Do we have a less mature
bud, farther down?

620
00:32:17,225 --> 00:32:18,965
You know, that's something
I've noticed over the years.

621
00:32:18,965 --> 00:32:21,695
If you've got a nice purple up
top and then pretty deep, pretty

622
00:32:21,695 --> 00:32:22,925
quickly you get into the green.

623
00:32:23,645 --> 00:32:26,735
Well, that might influence some decisions
down the line where you can go back and

624
00:32:26,735 --> 00:32:29,795
say, Hey, with the thermal camera, I can
tell when I've got too thick of a canopy

625
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:35,915
too thin, too deep, you know, and really
just, that's taking it from a single

626
00:32:35,915 --> 00:32:39,785
point measurement and making it way easier
to get in all that information at once.

627
00:32:42,725 --> 00:32:43,055
Awesome.

628
00:32:43,055 --> 00:32:45,845
Thank you for that question,
bill Bo, if you have a follow up,

629
00:32:45,850 --> 00:32:47,315
please, you posted in the chat.

630
00:32:47,705 --> 00:32:49,325
Uh, we're gonna move on
to Nathaniel's question.

631
00:32:49,325 --> 00:32:51,635
Nathaniel, you wanna
unmute yourself and ask it?

632
00:32:51,635 --> 00:32:52,925
Or would you like me to ask for you?

633
00:32:53,795 --> 00:32:55,145
No, I'll go ahead and click this one.

634
00:32:55,325 --> 00:32:55,745
Excellent.

635
00:32:55,745 --> 00:33:00,725
Um, so just to bring it back to some,
uh, the crop steering topic, um, for

636
00:33:00,935 --> 00:33:04,865
basically for every, uh, automated
control system manufacturer out there,

637
00:33:04,865 --> 00:33:10,655
there's a different crop steering,
um, technique, uh, that's published.

638
00:33:11,045 --> 00:33:16,534
Um, and so my question is what, uh, if
you guys could, you know, um, discuss a

639
00:33:16,534 --> 00:33:20,554
little bit about the different theories
on crop steering techniques, uh, the

640
00:33:20,554 --> 00:33:25,895
two examples that came to my mind, um,
were the two opposite extremes of, you

641
00:33:25,895 --> 00:33:29,975
know, one suggestion is at different
phases of the plant's life cycle.

642
00:33:29,975 --> 00:33:35,435
You may want to have a dry back down to
20% of BWC, uh, and then all the way up

643
00:33:35,435 --> 00:33:38,465
to, uh, um, saturating the field capacity.

644
00:33:38,824 --> 00:33:41,345
Um, whereas the, you know,
opposite side of that spectrum.

645
00:33:42,155 --> 00:33:47,945
Is to maintain just static water matrix,
tension of a consistent 40 to 50%

646
00:33:48,245 --> 00:33:50,074
VWC throughout the life of the plant.

647
00:33:50,525 --> 00:33:52,145
Um, can you guys speak
a little bit to that?

648
00:33:53,045 --> 00:33:53,465
Jason: Yeah.

649
00:33:53,525 --> 00:33:57,574
Um, and I, you know, I think probably
the biggest differences that's

650
00:33:57,574 --> 00:34:01,565
coming from these manufacturers
is just the, the details of it.

651
00:34:01,835 --> 00:34:06,815
Uh, I'm hoping that everyone else
is pretty close to where we're at

652
00:34:06,815 --> 00:34:10,895
as far as how the science actually,
uh, affects plant physiology.

653
00:34:11,195 --> 00:34:16,955
Uh, I know that, uh, some of the, the
largest rockwool manufacturers, um, I'm

654
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,615
not gonna name in specific, but the.

655
00:34:20,465 --> 00:34:23,685
Probably the ones that are original,
you guys are most familiar with.

656
00:34:23,745 --> 00:34:28,245
Uh, you know, they've been used in peppers
and tomatoes for, for decades and decades.

657
00:34:28,304 --> 00:34:31,364
And, uh, uh, you know, what
we recommend is exactly in

658
00:34:31,370 --> 00:34:32,775
line with what they recommend.

659
00:34:32,864 --> 00:34:37,634
Uh, they've done tons of research
as far as massive production, um, in

660
00:34:37,634 --> 00:34:39,795
those greenhouses, in the Netherlands.

661
00:34:39,855 --> 00:34:46,245
And, uh, and so I, I think the best
idea is to, you know, take the science

662
00:34:46,545 --> 00:34:48,225
behind it and learn the science.

663
00:34:48,284 --> 00:34:51,525
And as you know, we mentioned
all the time, it, when we say

664
00:34:51,525 --> 00:34:55,424
it's strain dependent, um, there
is gonna be different techniques

665
00:34:55,424 --> 00:34:57,525
for the different plant genetics.

666
00:34:57,605 --> 00:35:02,625
And, uh, and so the best way to do
it is learn on how those controls

667
00:35:02,625 --> 00:35:06,855
affect the plant, uh, rather than
just going by a template recommended

668
00:35:06,855 --> 00:35:09,435
from, uh, some company or supplier.

669
00:35:09,884 --> 00:35:10,215
Kaisha: Yeah.

670
00:35:10,215 --> 00:35:12,795
I, I think it's important to remember
that these techniques really are a

671
00:35:12,799 --> 00:35:16,275
set of tools to go in your toolbox,
to apply at times when you need 'em,

672
00:35:16,275 --> 00:35:19,275
you know, you you've gotta learn
when to use what type of screw.

673
00:35:20,300 --> 00:35:23,780
That's something, you know, someone
can give you the toolbox, if you are

674
00:35:23,780 --> 00:35:26,630
not proficient in using those tools,
you're not gonna be able to get it.

675
00:35:26,630 --> 00:35:30,590
And then another thing to really kinda
look at is I'll use liquid versus

676
00:35:30,590 --> 00:35:33,050
salt nutrients as a great example.

677
00:35:33,050 --> 00:35:36,320
You know, if we look at feeding schedules
for the same product, liquid versus salt,

678
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:37,820
usually the liquid's a little lighter.

679
00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:39,860
Um, it's not quite as aggressive.

680
00:35:40,460 --> 00:35:43,880
Um, basically when you look at those
feeding schedules, we're looking at

681
00:35:43,910 --> 00:35:46,310
what can, we're gonna design a schedule.

682
00:35:46,315 --> 00:35:49,700
That's gonna be reasonable for the person
to accomplish with the tools they have.

683
00:35:50,180 --> 00:35:53,600
So if you don't have high precision
tools, like there's a few crop screen

684
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,240
guides out there that I've seen that
aren't, aren't quite as tight as

685
00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:57,620
some of the parameters we look at.

686
00:35:57,625 --> 00:36:01,070
But if I were to step back and
think, Hey, I'm writing this

687
00:36:01,070 --> 00:36:05,270
guide that hopefully anyone can do
and not fall flat on their face.

688
00:36:05,630 --> 00:36:09,080
I'm gonna be super conservative in that
guide and make sure they don't fail.

689
00:36:09,650 --> 00:36:14,270
You know, I mean, again, like if we go
out to, if we compare to nutrients for

690
00:36:14,275 --> 00:36:19,745
most people at home and in a smaller
facility, Liquids are easier for them

691
00:36:19,745 --> 00:36:25,205
to measure, you know, if I'm only mixing
up two gallons to feed my plant every

692
00:36:25,205 --> 00:36:29,645
day or so, every couple days, my big
plant, uh, maybe I don't want to go

693
00:36:29,645 --> 00:36:33,065
spend money on a scale that would be
appropriate for me to be accurate there.

694
00:36:33,515 --> 00:36:36,395
Well, liquid nutrients
are really easy solution.

695
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:37,895
I can get my little shot glass.

696
00:36:38,375 --> 00:36:41,825
That's got my graduated milliliters on
it, fill it up to where I need to be.

697
00:36:41,825 --> 00:36:42,635
Boom easy.

698
00:36:43,145 --> 00:36:46,715
Whereas yeah, maybe I don't want to
go spend a hundred, $200 on a scale.

699
00:36:46,720 --> 00:36:49,595
So I think that's really important
to remember when you're looking at

700
00:36:49,595 --> 00:36:52,565
some of this information coming out
of different manufacturers, you know,

701
00:36:53,105 --> 00:36:57,065
uh, one, one name names, but I've seen
one great crop steering guy from a

702
00:36:57,065 --> 00:37:01,595
company that doesn't sell any sensors
and, uh, you know what, they have a

703
00:37:01,595 --> 00:37:02,945
lot of the same science behind it.

704
00:37:02,945 --> 00:37:06,365
But if you look at that, it's got a
lot of padding in it to make sure that,

705
00:37:06,575 --> 00:37:10,655
Hey, you might not get as aggressive
of results as you would as aggressive,

706
00:37:10,925 --> 00:37:15,095
aggressive as results as you get with,
uh, high density sensor population,

707
00:37:15,100 --> 00:37:16,515
but you're getting an improvement.

708
00:37:18,245 --> 00:37:21,515
Just only watering whenever you
feel like it or not having any,

709
00:37:21,515 --> 00:37:23,295
you know, rigid schedule at all.

710
00:37:24,125 --> 00:37:28,445
Jason: It's it's why you'll see us, uh,
us on here kind of scream get a little

711
00:37:28,445 --> 00:37:32,345
squirmish when people ask for exact
DC numbers or exact room temperature

712
00:37:32,345 --> 00:37:37,835
numbers, there's just so many other
variables in play that, uh, that sure.

713
00:37:37,835 --> 00:37:40,445
We can give you a reasonable
range to start with.

714
00:37:40,685 --> 00:37:44,435
Start within that range,
makes modifications, document

715
00:37:44,435 --> 00:37:48,275
those modifications and, and
then make a AB comparison.

716
00:37:48,485 --> 00:37:53,765
Um, obviously the, the key there as well
is don't change more than one variable

717
00:37:53,765 --> 00:37:55,535
if you have any opportunity to do so.

718
00:37:55,535 --> 00:37:57,485
And you want to make an
improvement on there.

719
00:37:57,785 --> 00:38:02,165
Um, the challenge of that in
reality is a lot of times we

720
00:38:02,165 --> 00:38:04,055
don't mean to change a variable.

721
00:38:04,055 --> 00:38:09,125
It's just hard to operate a room
exactly the same for 60 days.

722
00:38:09,215 --> 00:38:12,515
Uh, and this is especially
true in greenhouses it's,

723
00:38:12,645 --> 00:38:14,895
uh, It's very challenging.

724
00:38:15,045 --> 00:38:19,035
Especially somewhere we have four seasons,
like up here in, in the Northwest.

725
00:38:19,065 --> 00:38:24,945
If we wanna do AB testing, we can
try as hard as we want not to make

726
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:26,685
a change to, to a certain variable.

727
00:38:26,895 --> 00:38:31,245
Um, maybe we're analyzing a
nutrient, well, this month, that

728
00:38:31,605 --> 00:38:33,855
average temperature was 60 degrees.

729
00:38:33,855 --> 00:38:38,715
And last month it was 70 degrees and
nighttime differentials were, uh,

730
00:38:38,715 --> 00:38:42,015
you know, they're 10 degrees higher
right now than they were a month ago.

731
00:38:42,285 --> 00:38:45,285
Um, and obviously we're doing
everything we can to combat that

732
00:38:45,285 --> 00:38:47,295
with, uh, greenhouse controls.

733
00:38:47,295 --> 00:38:50,925
But, uh, it, it, it's not
at the scientific level,

734
00:38:50,925 --> 00:38:52,365
it's at a, at a production

735
00:38:52,365 --> 00:38:52,695
Kaisha: level.

736
00:38:53,235 --> 00:38:54,075
Oh, absolutely.

737
00:38:54,075 --> 00:38:56,745
And I think, you know, one thing
that I, I see a lot in the industry

738
00:38:56,745 --> 00:39:00,735
right now is, um, we're all,
we're all going so fast paced.

739
00:39:00,740 --> 00:39:03,945
Everyone's trying to make it, we're trying
to survive, trying to grow business.

740
00:39:04,275 --> 00:39:06,945
Uh, so it's very tempting
to try to deal with.

741
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,220
Tomorrow's problems, today's
problems in yesterday's problems.

742
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,009
But what we really need to do is
look back and deal with the problems

743
00:39:13,009 --> 00:39:16,279
that happened two months ago, when
we're about to repeat that cycle.

744
00:39:16,700 --> 00:39:22,100
So if we're talking about like,
like say EC coming into ripening,

745
00:39:23,210 --> 00:39:27,080
I can take the same strain and show
you it at two different ECS and

746
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:28,640
then show you in the jar, smoke it.

747
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:29,779
You couldn't tell me the difference.

748
00:39:30,170 --> 00:39:32,900
Now there's a lot of factors leading
up to where we're gonna be with that

749
00:39:33,170 --> 00:39:34,670
EC and ripening that contribute to it.

750
00:39:34,670 --> 00:39:38,210
And if we didn't look back at
anything before ripening and say,

751
00:39:38,210 --> 00:39:40,190
okay, where was our EC at what time?

752
00:39:40,490 --> 00:39:41,990
What kind of ranges were we seeing?

753
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:43,310
How slow did we stack up?

754
00:39:43,310 --> 00:39:44,450
How slow are we tapering?

755
00:39:45,140 --> 00:39:47,750
If can't look at all that, then
we really can't extrapolate much.

756
00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:51,740
Like if you've got Herms in week seven,
you're just throwing bananas, like crazy.

757
00:39:52,340 --> 00:39:55,970
And, uh, you know, you don't, you
can't figure out what changed.

758
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,975
, but you're only looking at that week's
worth of data compared to the last time.

759
00:39:59,975 --> 00:40:01,355
And you're not looking
at everything leading up.

760
00:40:01,355 --> 00:40:03,185
You just, you don't have
the complete picture.

761
00:40:04,565 --> 00:40:10,595
Jason: This is, this is the, the basis
of why we created harvest group recipes.

762
00:40:10,685 --> 00:40:13,055
Uh, take, take a data set.

763
00:40:13,235 --> 00:40:14,405
Here's what we plan to do.

764
00:40:14,405 --> 00:40:15,635
Here's what we're trying to do.

765
00:40:15,905 --> 00:40:21,455
And, uh, then we run a harvest group
analysis, jump into our production page

766
00:40:21,455 --> 00:40:23,015
and check out the harvest group analysis.

767
00:40:23,225 --> 00:40:28,085
Here's how many days that you are outside
of your intended parameters for easy

768
00:40:28,085 --> 00:40:30,035
or relative humidity or any of that?

769
00:40:30,215 --> 00:40:32,825
Obviously, if you you've
nailed it perfect.

770
00:40:32,885 --> 00:40:37,265
Now you can maybe dial in those target
parameters even just slightly more.

771
00:40:37,505 --> 00:40:41,285
Um, and then that's where continuous
improvement comes from is how tightly

772
00:40:41,285 --> 00:40:43,415
can we operate within our plan.

773
00:40:43,685 --> 00:40:48,725
And do we need to adjust the plan if
we are operating tightly to that plan?

774
00:40:49,055 --> 00:40:51,715
Uh, obviously if we're doing
everything we can just to.

775
00:40:52,125 --> 00:40:56,685
Be close to what we intend to do is
it's gonna be really hard to make

776
00:40:56,685 --> 00:40:58,965
improvements on what we intend to do.

777
00:41:01,785 --> 00:41:03,705
Kaisha: Nathaniel, did we
address everything in your

778
00:41:03,710 --> 00:41:05,685
question, in a shout out to you?

779
00:41:05,685 --> 00:41:06,645
Thank you for dropping.

780
00:41:06,645 --> 00:41:10,185
You dropped some, uh, an article
here and a chat, um, love the

781
00:41:10,215 --> 00:41:11,475
resource sharing, but yeah.

782
00:41:11,475 --> 00:41:13,395
Did we cover everything
that you wanted to know?

783
00:41:14,235 --> 00:41:16,395
I, yeah, that, that totally makes sense.

784
00:41:16,395 --> 00:41:19,845
I mean, I, it, it absolutely is.

785
00:41:19,935 --> 00:41:24,195
Um, uh, you know, pretty clear that,
uh, manufacturers are gonna make the

786
00:41:24,195 --> 00:41:31,335
most generalized wide applying, um, uh,
advice that they can give with the least

787
00:41:31,335 --> 00:41:34,875
amount of failure and the largest group
of people, which is their customer base.

788
00:41:35,205 --> 00:41:39,525
Um, and every iterative aspect after
that is going to be, um, based upon

789
00:41:39,525 --> 00:41:40,875
your, your own personal experience.

790
00:41:41,055 --> 00:41:45,645
I was looking for, um,
uh, I suppose a bit more.

791
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:50,150
Uh, introspection into your
experience in your own R and D.

792
00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:55,130
I know me group has, uh, OROYA has
their own crop steering, uh, program

793
00:41:55,130 --> 00:41:56,690
as well for that same purpose.

794
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:06,500
Um, uh, but I was looking for, uh, a bit
more insight into, um, the, the effect

795
00:42:06,500 --> 00:42:08,180
of dry back levels are different stages.

796
00:42:08,180 --> 00:42:11,690
What you guys see
personally in your own work.

797
00:42:12,110 --> 00:42:13,460
Um, I is effective.

798
00:42:13,460 --> 00:42:19,850
For example, I, I find that a static, um,
uh, water matrix tension within the 40 to

799
00:42:19,855 --> 00:42:26,840
50% consistently without hitting 60, 70,
80% video VWC, without going down to 10,

800
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:33,560
20% VWC, keeping that static with just
a couple points, um, of fluctuation for,

801
00:42:33,650 --> 00:42:35,360
uh, for crop doing at different phases.

802
00:42:35,570 --> 00:42:40,430
But the vast majority being that static,
uh, level is the most effective across

803
00:42:40,460 --> 00:42:42,140
the largest, uh, group of strains.

804
00:42:42,380 --> 00:42:43,730
But I was hoping to hear what you're.

805
00:42:44,450 --> 00:42:49,700
Personal experiences were within that as
well, rather than the explanation of, um,

806
00:42:49,700 --> 00:42:51,710
this is why manufacturers do it this way.

807
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:52,820
Gotcha.

808
00:42:52,820 --> 00:42:58,190
And yet real quick to the point of
the, uh, uh, uh, flowering plants

809
00:42:58,190 --> 00:43:03,710
are GRA Tropic, um, the, uh, the
AMPL organelles inside the, uh, Mari

810
00:43:03,710 --> 00:43:07,850
thematic root cap, um, it's filled
with starch and heavier than the

811
00:43:07,850 --> 00:43:12,350
surrounding cytoplasm causing it to sink
inside the cell, which is what signals

812
00:43:12,355 --> 00:43:14,930
gravity for the root grow downwards.

813
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,630
So, yeah, roots, roots, and
flowering plants are gravity trophic.

814
00:43:19,009 --> 00:43:22,730
They do know what gravity is they do, but
they don't have to choose to grow down.

815
00:43:23,810 --> 00:43:27,230
If I put a plant in a tube and I give
it mesh on the outside of that tube,

816
00:43:27,290 --> 00:43:30,620
I can get air pruning, cuz those
roots are gonna seek out the path of

817
00:43:30,620 --> 00:43:32,060
water and where it's at in the media.

818
00:43:32,900 --> 00:43:34,430
So you're, you're totally correct.

819
00:43:35,030 --> 00:43:38,120
But in application, that's why we're
seeing like, you know, that's why

820
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:39,590
your roots grow sideways in the slab.

821
00:43:39,740 --> 00:43:40,820
Water's wicking that way.

822
00:43:41,060 --> 00:43:41,870
That that's very, yeah.

823
00:43:41,870 --> 00:43:42,800
It's not a hard, fast rule.

824
00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:43,340
Yeah.

825
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,380
Well, and it, what you're
saying is totally correct.

826
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,490
What we're talking about here is
using that water flow and introduction

827
00:43:49,495 --> 00:43:53,630
of grab or oxygen into that poor
space to stimulate Ruth root growth.

828
00:43:54,410 --> 00:43:59,090
Um, as far as, uh, keeping it static like
that, I, I get where you're coming from.

829
00:43:59,150 --> 00:44:01,850
Um, that's almost going back to
like deep water culture where we're

830
00:44:01,850 --> 00:44:04,070
keeping a static saturation point.

831
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,790
We're keeping a pretty static sea
point and we're just introducing

832
00:44:07,790 --> 00:44:10,130
oxygen all day by keeping it into that.

833
00:44:10,130 --> 00:44:15,380
What we're not doing though, is
putting any kind of, uh, generative

834
00:44:15,380 --> 00:44:16,970
or respiration stress on the plant.

835
00:44:16,970 --> 00:44:20,270
So like if we're watering just in the
morning, we're depriving that plant

836
00:44:20,270 --> 00:44:21,830
of fresher oxygen the rest of the day.

837
00:44:22,220 --> 00:44:26,120
And when we're talking about dry
back, That dry back percentage is a

838
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,180
reflection of, you know, your heat
and humidity in the environment

839
00:44:29,180 --> 00:44:32,120
that VPD and how much transpiration
we're getting from the plant.

840
00:44:32,750 --> 00:44:37,220
So there is no hard, fast rule on how
much dry back comes in that really has

841
00:44:37,220 --> 00:44:40,820
to do with, uh, what kind of media you're
running, you know, with rockwool point,

842
00:44:40,980 --> 00:44:45,350
I, I did really appreciate your, your
acknowledgement of preventing anaerobic,

843
00:44:45,550 --> 00:44:48,590
uh, uh, bacterial development in the
substrate as well through this method.

844
00:44:49,009 --> 00:44:50,390
So that, that was really good insight.

845
00:44:50,900 --> 00:44:51,860
And that's, that's something too.

846
00:44:51,860 --> 00:44:52,670
I have to stop myself.

847
00:44:52,670 --> 00:44:56,750
Sometimes I'll get hung up on, you know, a
little, a little detail, but then when you

848
00:44:56,780 --> 00:45:00,980
break it out to production, um, it's, it's
kind like, you know, when our transplant

849
00:45:00,980 --> 00:45:05,390
dry back, like, yeah, I wanna see that 15
to 20% dry back before we hit it with a

850
00:45:05,390 --> 00:45:09,680
P one, cuz I need to know we're clearing
that, that poor space and giving those

851
00:45:09,685 --> 00:45:11,750
roots oxygen enough that they can grow.

852
00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:17,210
However, I know that I can't just let
those go anaerobic over seven days, right?

853
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:22,070
We've always gotta find that, that medium
between, uh, the cool stuff and science,

854
00:45:22,070 --> 00:45:24,050
and then actual on the ground application.

855
00:45:24,650 --> 00:45:28,040
You know, like if we were talking
about, uh, oxygenating your water

856
00:45:28,045 --> 00:45:30,500
to feed your plants, that's great.

857
00:45:31,130 --> 00:45:35,390
You know, if I follow down that road too
quickly, suddenly I'm at 70% per light mix

858
00:45:35,390 --> 00:45:38,030
and, uh, really wasting a lot of water.

859
00:45:39,140 --> 00:45:41,330
So, you know, we we've
gotta find that medium.

860
00:45:41,335 --> 00:45:45,050
And as far as, like I said, those dry
back percentages go, as long as we're

861
00:45:45,050 --> 00:45:48,620
seeing that 10 to 15%, that means we've
got a healthy amount of VPD to promote

862
00:45:48,625 --> 00:45:50,630
good transpiration and good plant growth.

863
00:45:51,290 --> 00:45:55,010
Um, keeping it in, especially if
you're in a soilless medium, you know,

864
00:45:55,070 --> 00:45:56,450
our matrix potential is very low.

865
00:45:56,450 --> 00:46:01,040
The plant doesn't, it can't really sense
a difference between 50 or 40, right.

866
00:46:01,925 --> 00:46:03,095
It's very available there.

867
00:46:03,095 --> 00:46:06,135
It can't sense down to 30, when we're
talking about cocoa and rockwool,

868
00:46:06,395 --> 00:46:09,155
it doesn't get difficult for the
plant to start pulling out water

869
00:46:09,155 --> 00:46:11,915
from the media till we start to
approach that wilting point, even

870
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:13,295
if it's temporary wilting point.

871
00:46:14,075 --> 00:46:18,035
So as far as keeping it static, I think
that the biggest difference would be

872
00:46:18,035 --> 00:46:22,445
looking at like, in that static 40 50,
like I said, that's close as close as

873
00:46:22,445 --> 00:46:25,835
you're gonna get to deep water culture
with some particles around the roots.

874
00:46:26,375 --> 00:46:31,625
And then what we're talking about is
really being able to in, uh, increase that

875
00:46:31,630 --> 00:46:34,805
amount of time that you're depriving the
root zone of oxygen and not depriving,

876
00:46:34,805 --> 00:46:36,305
but you're not introducing anymore.

877
00:46:36,310 --> 00:46:39,185
You're not giving it that
little stimulation to grow.

878
00:46:41,705 --> 00:46:42,915
Yeah, thank you so much, man.

879
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:43,205
I really

880
00:46:43,205 --> 00:46:44,225
Jason: appreciate that perspective.

881
00:46:44,675 --> 00:46:44,945
Yeah.

882
00:46:44,945 --> 00:46:47,735
And just to kind of go back to that,
you know, the low end of those water

883
00:46:47,735 --> 00:46:54,545
contents, um, when we talk about the major
potential in something like rockwool, uh,

884
00:46:54,545 --> 00:46:58,635
it's very linear, uh, down to about zero.

885
00:46:59,015 --> 00:47:03,215
Uh, one of the very first sensor
installations that I did after joining

886
00:47:03,215 --> 00:47:08,885
on with meter group, I, we did back
east and, um, that next day we had flown

887
00:47:08,885 --> 00:47:10,415
back and I was checking their graphs.

888
00:47:10,415 --> 00:47:15,635
And here, here we were at like two to 5%
and most of these plants and I, I called

889
00:47:15,635 --> 00:47:17,795
'em up and I says, what's what's going on?

890
00:47:17,795 --> 00:47:18,815
And these things all dead.

891
00:47:18,820 --> 00:47:21,875
And they, they took a picture
and sent it over to me.

892
00:47:21,875 --> 00:47:25,235
And I couldn't, I couldn't believe
my eyes, the, the plants had

893
00:47:25,235 --> 00:47:29,195
available water until that substrate
was completely dry, obviously.

894
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:35,040
That strategy is not realistic in order
to run an entire cycle, because we are

895
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:40,260
gonna see the degradation of the rock wall
through doing that, to, to that substrate.

896
00:47:40,265 --> 00:47:45,270
And obviously it's gonna be much
more challenging to manage our ECS.

897
00:47:45,540 --> 00:47:50,190
Um, and we would need a much, much
larger substrate once our, our water

898
00:47:50,190 --> 00:47:53,910
holding capacity has, has dropped
that much due to low water contents.

899
00:47:55,170 --> 00:47:55,470
Kaisha: Yeah.

900
00:47:55,470 --> 00:47:58,260
And, you know, honestly, to build on
that a little bit, one important thing

901
00:47:58,265 --> 00:48:02,730
to remember is in, you know, plant tissue
production, we've got water light and CO2,

902
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,290
you know, EC nutrients do play a role in
that, but those are three main inputs.

903
00:48:07,770 --> 00:48:12,090
So if you know, we're driving,
let's say incredibly hard drive

904
00:48:12,090 --> 00:48:14,910
backs to the point where we're
really stressing out those plants.

905
00:48:15,300 --> 00:48:17,850
If I look at that over the
whole cycle, and I say, look,

906
00:48:17,850 --> 00:48:19,320
I needed X amount of light.

907
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,920
I needed X amount of water and I needed
X amount of CO2 to produce this plant.

908
00:48:23,250 --> 00:48:26,220
And that's, that's throwing out
heat, nutrients and everything else.

909
00:48:27,125 --> 00:48:31,025
I can start to quantify that and say,
Hey, look, I actually, by pushing these

910
00:48:31,025 --> 00:48:35,705
huge drive backs ended up giving that
plant a lot less water in a time period

911
00:48:35,705 --> 00:48:39,484
where it actually needed it to develop the
structure it wanted, or it needed to grow.

912
00:48:39,484 --> 00:48:42,605
Cuz when we, when we're steering
these plants, we don't wanna stress.

913
00:48:42,609 --> 00:48:47,345
'em so hard that we're like, uh,
you know, reducing production.

914
00:48:47,375 --> 00:48:49,625
We're just trying to steer
it through hormonal changes.

915
00:48:49,625 --> 00:48:53,225
So like during stretch, we don't,
we're not trying to torture those

916
00:48:53,225 --> 00:48:55,085
plants and make 'em grow less.

917
00:48:55,415 --> 00:48:58,745
We're trying to focus that growth on
increased bud sites, increased stem

918
00:48:58,745 --> 00:49:03,154
diameter, and we're really promoting a
better, uh, PGR balance in there so that,

919
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,875
you know, we don't have, like, let's say
this high oxen production state, which

920
00:49:06,875 --> 00:49:08,375
is normally what we see in stretch.

921
00:49:08,375 --> 00:49:09,815
That's causing the plant to stretch.

922
00:49:09,884 --> 00:49:12,275
We, we want functional
structure, not just.

923
00:49:12,890 --> 00:49:13,340
Lumber

924
00:49:14,450 --> 00:49:14,810
. 
Jason: Yeah.

925
00:49:15,530 --> 00:49:20,000
I, I know historically that, uh, a lot
of people talk about stressing their

926
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:26,300
plants for that, uh, that hormonal purpose
for the, the indication to modify the

927
00:49:26,300 --> 00:49:29,540
plant morphology via physiological cues.

928
00:49:29,780 --> 00:49:32,840
Um, and I like to think about
it a little bit differently.

929
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,660
Not necessarily stressing
it, but, but guiding it.

930
00:49:35,780 --> 00:49:40,580
Um, and it, I, I, we always
talk about a little bit about

931
00:49:40,580 --> 00:49:42,020
the weight lifting comparison.

932
00:49:42,110 --> 00:49:42,470
Right.

933
00:49:42,740 --> 00:49:48,480
You know, if, if, if I am, uh, if I'm
doing some, some heavy, low rep lifting,

934
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,680
then, uh, that's gonna be like generative.

935
00:49:51,740 --> 00:49:54,890
If I'm doing lots of lower
weight reps, that's gonna be a

936
00:49:54,890 --> 00:49:56,330
little bit more like vegetative.

937
00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:00,710
Um, if I go so heavy that I
hurt myself, I'm not gonna

938
00:50:00,710 --> 00:50:02,240
be lifting much at all for a.

939
00:50:03,575 --> 00:50:03,815
Kaisha: Yeah.

940
00:50:03,815 --> 00:50:06,995
And I think, you know, one thing that
honestly, some of the terminology in

941
00:50:06,995 --> 00:50:10,535
this industry has gotten a little or
pushed a little far, like when we're

942
00:50:10,535 --> 00:50:14,525
talking about plant stress, we're just
actually talking about plant responses

943
00:50:15,305 --> 00:50:18,365
and the easiest way, I think where
that term came up is to say, Hey, if

944
00:50:18,365 --> 00:50:22,174
we're depriving something or we're, you
know, doing something that's, doesn't

945
00:50:22,174 --> 00:50:23,765
seem normal, it's gotta be stressful.

946
00:50:23,765 --> 00:50:24,035
Right?

947
00:50:24,035 --> 00:50:28,595
Well, yeah, it, it might not quite be
stressful in the way that you're thinking,

948
00:50:28,625 --> 00:50:34,115
you know, much, much of the way that I
always, uh, kind of bash flushing here.

949
00:50:34,205 --> 00:50:37,355
And that's mostly because of the term
around it, you know, that really in the

950
00:50:37,355 --> 00:50:41,435
industry has come to me like, Hey, we
are watering this until we literally

951
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:46,625
mechanically flush all the salt out
now, you know, in application, not

952
00:50:46,625 --> 00:50:48,275
everyone is talking about doing that.

953
00:50:48,815 --> 00:50:51,365
some people are just talking
about reducing their nutrient

954
00:50:51,365 --> 00:50:54,185
input and slowly bringing that
EC down, which is what we want.

955
00:50:54,665 --> 00:50:56,884
But you know, you want
to avoid that confusion.

956
00:50:59,435 --> 00:51:03,035
Wow, what a great conversation, Nathaniel,
thank you so much for your question.

957
00:51:03,065 --> 00:51:05,405
Um, Mandy, I'm gonna send it
over to you because I think we've

958
00:51:05,405 --> 00:51:06,755
gotten some YouTube questions in.

959
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:07,055
Yeah.

960
00:51:07,535 --> 00:51:07,775
Yeah.

961
00:51:07,775 --> 00:51:08,585
We have.

962
00:51:08,590 --> 00:51:10,325
Thank you for that discussion guys.

963
00:51:10,385 --> 00:51:12,875
Um, Diane's hanging out
with us over on YouTube.

964
00:51:12,875 --> 00:51:17,615
He wants to know, um, straight cocoa or
cocoa and Pearlite in your experience.

965
00:51:17,615 --> 00:51:18,665
What's the better medium.

966
00:51:21,815 --> 00:51:26,495
Jason: I, I mean it, I say this
quite a bit and I, I like cocoa

967
00:51:26,555 --> 00:51:31,265
a lot straight cocoa for me
has been consistent forgiving.

968
00:51:31,385 --> 00:51:31,955
Um,

969
00:51:33,305 --> 00:51:35,765
Kaisha: yeah, if you have, I mean,
honestly, really where per light

970
00:51:35,775 --> 00:51:39,395
comes in for me is, uh, you know,
it's something I used early on, not

971
00:51:39,395 --> 00:51:43,805
just my canvas cultivation career,
but gardening in general, uh, before

972
00:51:43,805 --> 00:51:45,545
I knew how not to overwater my plants.

973
00:51:46,370 --> 00:51:50,390
So if you've got a sensor system, um,
don't, don't waste your money on Perla.

974
00:51:50,420 --> 00:51:53,090
You want that bigger gas tank
that the straight cocoa offers,

975
00:51:53,540 --> 00:51:55,040
you know, with a cocoa Perle mix.

976
00:51:55,040 --> 00:52:00,080
Typically we'll see
like 35 to 45% max VWC.

977
00:52:00,410 --> 00:52:04,700
What that means is I, I can't
run a, a 30% dry back if I only

978
00:52:04,730 --> 00:52:06,950
hit 35% volumetric water content.

979
00:52:07,730 --> 00:52:10,070
So that's kind of where it comes in.

980
00:52:10,070 --> 00:52:15,110
On the other hand, if you've got a big pot
and, uh, you're bringing a small plant in

981
00:52:15,110 --> 00:52:18,350
it that per light's probably gonna help
save you from overwatering by holding

982
00:52:18,350 --> 00:52:20,630
a lot more oxygen in the root zone.

983
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,280
Honestly, the biggest difference that
I've seen is, uh, you're gonna go with

984
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:26,780
a smaller pot with straight cocoa.

985
00:52:26,900 --> 00:52:29,810
You're gonna have the ability to
anyways, and again, especially if you

986
00:52:29,810 --> 00:52:32,960
have monitoring equipment, if you can
see what's going on inside there, you

987
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:37,310
can really avoid some of those, you
know, blunders that are easy to make

988
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,020
when you're just staring at of pot.

989
00:52:39,020 --> 00:52:39,890
Wondering how dry it is.

990
00:52:41,420 --> 00:52:42,090
Awesome.

991
00:52:42,260 --> 00:52:42,950
Thank you for that.

992
00:52:42,980 --> 00:52:44,660
And, uh, John wants to know.

993
00:52:45,695 --> 00:52:49,235
So I'm switching to pure
Cana, Coco with no crutches.

994
00:52:49,235 --> 00:52:55,745
This next run I'm running in two
gallon pots, um, is 0.08, four way.

995
00:52:55,745 --> 00:52:57,215
Drip going to be enough.

996
00:53:00,095 --> 00:53:00,455
Yeah.

997
00:53:03,335 --> 00:53:08,075
If you're, well, if you're, if you
have enough pump  I built a system

998
00:53:08,075 --> 00:53:11,435
before where it takes me, you know, I
don't actually get point a, it takes

999
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:15,305
a little longer, so just make sure
your specs are, uh, you've got enough

1000
00:53:15,305 --> 00:53:16,835
pressure and flow for what you need.

1001
00:53:18,485 --> 00:53:18,845
Awesome.

1002
00:53:18,850 --> 00:53:19,595
Thank you guys for that.

1003
00:53:20,165 --> 00:53:20,285
Yeah.

1004
00:53:20,290 --> 00:53:21,285
Back over to you, Kaisha.

1005
00:53:21,995 --> 00:53:22,355
Awesome.

1006
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:22,865
Thank you.

1007
00:53:22,865 --> 00:53:25,685
I love when we already know the
answers just yes, that's cool.

1008
00:53:25,955 --> 00:53:27,965
All right, Billbo dropped
another question in the chat.

1009
00:53:28,055 --> 00:53:28,475
Go for it.

1010
00:53:28,565 --> 00:53:32,165
Billbo okay.

1011
00:53:32,405 --> 00:53:37,205
Scrolling up has leave service
temperature, been correlated

1012
00:53:37,210 --> 00:53:38,705
with the model conductance.

1013
00:53:39,575 --> 00:53:41,675
And is that why you are potentially.

1014
00:53:42,650 --> 00:53:44,510
Not going for the leaf
surface temperature.

1015
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:50,270
Jason: Um, so I, I would probably prefer
just to talk about the relationship

1016
00:53:50,270 --> 00:53:57,050
with VPD, um, simply because leaf temp
on its own, it isn't enough information

1017
00:53:57,050 --> 00:53:59,960
to estimate, to model conductance.

1018
00:54:00,020 --> 00:54:04,490
Um, and that's why you'll hear
us usually talk about VPD in

1019
00:54:04,490 --> 00:54:06,560
relationship to small conductance.

1020
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:12,110
So as an easy measurement, VPD
is the best way to estimate

1021
00:54:12,110 --> 00:54:13,850
your store model conductance.

1022
00:54:14,150 --> 00:54:17,690
Um, and it's gonna be
kind of some type of.

1023
00:54:18,350 --> 00:54:22,670
Curve some type of bell shaped curve
where we see that stem model conductance

1024
00:54:22,670 --> 00:54:26,870
is highest typically, um, depending on
the life cycle of the plant, you know,

1025
00:54:26,900 --> 00:54:33,799
between say 0.7 and 1.5, uh, BPD, if you
will, uh, when we're lower than that,

1026
00:54:33,890 --> 00:54:38,509
there's so much moisture in the air that,
uh, our, our plants aren't necessarily

1027
00:54:39,779 --> 00:54:41,360
transpiring as fast as they could.

1028
00:54:41,630 --> 00:54:47,330
If we go up above those rates at the high
end, then the plants actually gonna close

1029
00:54:47,330 --> 00:54:51,860
its mates a little bit in order to retain
water and not go directly into wilting.

1030
00:54:52,549 --> 00:54:52,759
Kaisha: Yeah.

1031
00:54:52,765 --> 00:54:54,920
And much like R H and VPD.

1032
00:54:55,279 --> 00:54:58,160
It's just important to remember with,
to model conductants and leaf BP that

1033
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:02,540
we're looking at two, two separate ways
of looking at, uh, the same problem.

1034
00:55:02,630 --> 00:55:02,990
Right.

1035
00:55:03,410 --> 00:55:06,230
So before we have, before we can
measure to model conductance.

1036
00:55:07,805 --> 00:55:11,105
The, uh, you know, the easiest
way to do it back then was leaf

1037
00:55:11,105 --> 00:55:12,875
surface temperature with air P D.

1038
00:55:12,905 --> 00:55:17,765
I can calculate then what my approximate
model conductants can be based on how much

1039
00:55:17,795 --> 00:55:21,665
pull, how much vapor pressure deficit I
have and how much the plant should bring

1040
00:55:21,665 --> 00:55:24,035
up through X amount of Leafs leaf area.

1041
00:55:24,575 --> 00:55:29,585
Now that I can directly get that in
micromoles of water coming out of the

1042
00:55:29,585 --> 00:55:34,265
leaf, like they're just two different
measurements for a similar thing.

1043
00:55:34,265 --> 00:55:38,555
So I would say a good way to equate
those two would be, you know, if

1044
00:55:38,555 --> 00:55:43,325
you used to use soil moisture,
potentiometers in the, in ground to

1045
00:55:43,325 --> 00:55:46,595
measure, you know, how much moisture
you have in the soil, is that accurate?

1046
00:55:46,595 --> 00:55:46,895
Yes.

1047
00:55:46,895 --> 00:55:47,945
Does it give you a percentage?

1048
00:55:48,620 --> 00:55:51,980
You're inferring something from another
set of numbers in another set of units.

1049
00:55:52,279 --> 00:55:53,360
That's the big difference there.

1050
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,330
Otherwise we're, we're really
talking about something that's

1051
00:55:56,330 --> 00:55:57,500
approaching the same goal.

1052
00:55:57,529 --> 00:56:00,410
We're looking at leaf surface
temp or to model conductance.

1053
00:56:01,250 --> 00:56:01,520
Jason: Yeah.

1054
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:05,240
And obviously, you know, when we
say VPD related to system model

1055
00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:09,049
conductance, that is with all
other variables consistent, right.

1056
00:56:09,049 --> 00:56:14,930
That's at the same point in time, uh,
same plant type, uh, same nutrients, uh,

1057
00:56:14,935 --> 00:56:17,299
same light quantity, same CO2 levels.

1058
00:56:17,540 --> 00:56:21,140
Uh, obviously if we make adjustments
to any of those, it'll change the

1059
00:56:21,140 --> 00:56:26,029
relationship that we see between,
uh, the surface temp and, um, or

1060
00:56:26,029 --> 00:56:27,290
stone model production, excuse me.

1061
00:56:27,350 --> 00:56:27,710
And

1062
00:56:27,770 --> 00:56:28,220
Kaisha: BPD.

1063
00:56:29,029 --> 00:56:29,270
Yeah.

1064
00:56:29,270 --> 00:56:32,420
And that's where, you know, if you're
dealing with, uh, any kind of variation

1065
00:56:32,420 --> 00:56:34,640
there, like, let's talk about the
greenhouse where we've got varying

1066
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:38,299
amounts of light and thus our leaf surface
temperatures varying throughout the day.

1067
00:56:38,839 --> 00:56:41,690
You know, if I'm trying to just
use that leaf surface, temp and

1068
00:56:41,690 --> 00:56:43,670
BPD to calculate my watering needs.

1069
00:56:44,705 --> 00:56:47,315
Yeah, I'm not really gonna get
very close in a greenhouse setting.

1070
00:56:47,495 --> 00:56:51,785
I might have a very wide estimation, but
pretty much every day I'm gonna go back

1071
00:56:51,785 --> 00:56:54,635
and be like, wow, there's a little extra
in the tank than I expected after today.

1072
00:56:54,635 --> 00:56:56,345
Or, yeah, it went dry.

1073
00:56:56,345 --> 00:56:57,245
We missed the last water.

1074
00:56:57,575 --> 00:57:00,875
you know, just trying to keep up on
this, if I'm following the graphs with

1075
00:57:00,875 --> 00:57:02,285
my irrigation needs throughout the day.

1076
00:57:05,465 --> 00:57:06,005
Awesome.

1077
00:57:06,005 --> 00:57:06,935
Thank you so much.

1078
00:57:06,935 --> 00:57:09,425
All right, we got one more
question from Laura, Laura.

1079
00:57:09,425 --> 00:57:11,435
I don't know if you wanna unmute
yourself, but I feel like this

1080
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:12,755
is a good one to take us home.

1081
00:57:15,665 --> 00:57:20,975
Hey, just wondering if there's a
scientific definition for crops

1082
00:57:20,975 --> 00:57:27,095
Jason: during, um, phasic parameter

1083
00:57:27,095 --> 00:57:27,875
Kaisha: modulation.

1084
00:57:28,715 --> 00:57:29,045
Yeah.

1085
00:57:29,105 --> 00:57:31,115
I was gonna say manipulating
your environment to promote

1086
00:57:31,115 --> 00:57:32,315
a certain plant morphology.

1087
00:57:32,765 --> 00:57:39,845
Um, I, I think, uh, Before it
entered the cannabis space as much.

1088
00:57:39,845 --> 00:57:42,905
We just called it, uh, growing
intelligently to get the type

1089
00:57:42,905 --> 00:57:43,865
of product that you want.

1090
00:57:44,015 --> 00:57:45,815
Like here are the practices
that we have to do.

1091
00:57:45,815 --> 00:57:50,105
You know, if we're talking about grapes,
for instance, thousands of years, people

1092
00:57:50,105 --> 00:57:53,195
have been going out and pruning flowers
early in the season to promote better

1093
00:57:53,195 --> 00:57:54,995
grape production that's crop steering.

1094
00:57:55,745 --> 00:57:58,805
You know, people have been manipulating
irrigation for thousands of years.

1095
00:57:58,805 --> 00:58:00,185
All of that is crop steering.

1096
00:58:00,545 --> 00:58:03,515
But if we wanna talk about it
scientifically yeah, just manipulating

1097
00:58:03,515 --> 00:58:07,775
the environment that a plant exists
in in order to produce certain growth

1098
00:58:07,775 --> 00:58:09,815
results, desired growth results.

1099
00:58:13,955 --> 00:58:14,525
Thanks a lot.

1100
00:58:14,525 --> 00:58:17,555
You guys, thank you for
your question, Laura.

1101
00:58:17,615 --> 00:58:18,185
All right.

1102
00:58:18,185 --> 00:58:21,605
And our final minute, Seth and
Jason, anything else you wanna tell

1103
00:58:21,605 --> 00:58:23,075
everybody before we sign off today?

1104
00:58:24,590 --> 00:58:25,700
Jason: Thanks everybody for joining.

1105
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,730
Uh, and we, we really appreciate
our audience contributing

1106
00:58:28,730 --> 00:58:29,840
to the questions in these.

1107
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:34,010
And, um, for us, you know, we're always
trying to learn more about this stuff

1108
00:58:34,310 --> 00:58:35,930
when we get harder and harder questions.

1109
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:41,480
Uh, I always enjoy trying to learn up
on as much as I can about them before

1110
00:58:41,485 --> 00:58:45,320
an episode and, and, and provide
at least the best interpretation

1111
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:46,970
I can, uh, on the subject.

1112
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:48,410
Kaisha: Yeah, absolutely.

1113
00:58:48,410 --> 00:58:50,180
I love, I love being able to
touch some of those things.

1114
00:58:50,180 --> 00:58:51,140
Like RuBisCO was fun.

1115
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:52,850
Haven't talked about that in a few years.

1116
00:58:55,070 --> 00:58:55,460
. Yeah.

1117
00:58:55,460 --> 00:58:55,910
Awesome.

1118
00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:56,210
Yeah.

1119
00:58:56,210 --> 00:58:57,200
To our community.

1120
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:00,740
I mean, this is for you and we thank
you so much for all your questions.

1121
00:59:00,890 --> 00:59:03,170
We got a lot of commission, uh,
questions submitted this week

1122
00:59:03,170 --> 00:59:04,250
that we weren't able to get to.

1123
00:59:04,250 --> 00:59:07,070
So we're gonna put those
off until next week's show.

1124
00:59:07,310 --> 00:59:10,220
Um, but the live questions, that's
the best way to hear from the experts.

1125
00:59:10,220 --> 00:59:13,160
So thank you to everybody who
submitted their questions either

1126
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,250
here on our Hangouts, around
YouTube and Seth and Jason, thank

1127
00:59:16,250 --> 00:59:17,690
you for dropping the knowledge man.

1128
00:59:17,690 --> 00:59:18,350
Like, wow.

1129
00:59:18,350 --> 00:59:19,400
I learned a lot today.

1130
00:59:19,820 --> 00:59:24,290
Um, uh, and Mandy, my partner in
moderating, couldn't do this without you.

1131
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:25,010
Thank you.

1132
00:59:26,375 --> 00:59:26,975
Always.

1133
00:59:27,605 --> 00:59:28,055
Awesome.

1134
00:59:28,055 --> 00:59:28,685
All right, folks.

1135
00:59:28,685 --> 00:59:30,755
Well, thank you all for joining
us for aro office hours.

1136
00:59:30,755 --> 00:59:32,435
This week, we do this every Thursday.

1137
00:59:32,675 --> 00:59:35,945
The best way to get answers, like I said,
from the experts is to join us live.

1138
00:59:36,125 --> 00:59:39,095
If you have any questions about
aro, definitely book a demo, and

1139
00:59:39,095 --> 00:59:41,645
the experts will tell you about
how it can be used to improve your

1140
00:59:41,650 --> 00:59:43,535
cultivation production process.

1141
00:59:43,835 --> 00:59:46,475
But as always let us know if there's
a topic you'd like covered in a

1142
00:59:46,475 --> 00:59:50,075
future, offers our session posted
in the chat, shoot us an email

1143
00:59:50,075 --> 00:59:54,335
at support.aroya@metergroup.com
or send us a DM over Instagram.

1144
00:59:54,340 --> 00:59:55,685
We definitely wanna hear from you.

1145
00:59:55,925 --> 00:59:59,555
We record every session so we will email
it to everybody in attendance, a link

1146
00:59:59,555 --> 01:00:01,145
to the video from today's discussion.

1147
01:00:01,150 --> 01:00:04,205
And it'll also be on our Aros
YouTube channel, like subscribe

1148
01:00:04,205 --> 01:00:05,135
and share while you're there.

1149
01:00:05,375 --> 01:00:08,525
And if these conversations are
helpful, please do spread the word.

1150
01:00:08,765 --> 01:00:09,455
Thanks everybody.

1151
01:00:09,455 --> 01:00:10,625
We'll see you next time.

1152
01:00:12,395 --> 01:00:13,175
Great meeting guys.

1153
01:00:13,180 --> 01:00:14,135
Thank you so much.

1154
01:00:14,495 --> 01:00:15,365
Thank you, Nathaniel.

1155
01:00:15,365 --> 01:00:15,515
Good.