{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":0.0,"endTime":5.43,"body":"It's really about loss."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":0.0,"endTime":5.43,"body":"And how do we come to terms with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":5.43,"endTime":10.2,"body":"that loss? In some instances,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":5.43,"endTime":10.2,"body":"when it's loss of a loved one,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":10.41,"endTime":16.47,"body":"we don't get that back. So how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":10.41,"endTime":16.47,"body":"do we kind of instil hope within"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":16.47,"endTime":22.86,"body":"us? How do we still, amidst the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":16.47,"endTime":22.86,"body":"darkness, find that morsel of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":22.86,"endTime":27.27,"body":"gratitude that we can hold on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":22.86,"endTime":27.27,"body":"to? And that becomes that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":27.27,"endTime":27.93,"body":"lifeline."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":32.73,"endTime":36.51,"body":"Welcome to the podcast that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":32.73,"endTime":36.51,"body":"all about deepening our self"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":36.51,"endTime":41.7,"body":"awareness with profound self"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":36.51,"endTime":41.7,"body":"compassion. I'm Henny, I write,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":41.79,"endTime":46.23,"body":"coach and speak about how making"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":41.79,"endTime":46.23,"body":"changes in our inner world can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":46.23,"endTime":51.54,"body":"transform how we experience our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":46.23,"endTime":51.54,"body":"outer world, all founded on a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":51.54,"endTime":56.82,"body":"bedrock of self love. Settle in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":51.54,"endTime":56.82,"body":"and listen and see where the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":56.82,"endTime":57.93,"body":"episode takes you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":65.519,"endTime":70.829,"body":"Today I'm talking with Kathy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":65.519,"endTime":70.829,"body":"Dockery, sure if that's actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":70.829,"endTime":73.139,"body":"how you say her name, but we'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":70.829,"endTime":73.139,"body":"double check that when she joins"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":73.139,"endTime":79.889,"body":"us. Kathy is an entrepreneur,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":73.139,"endTime":79.889,"body":"she is an author, and she's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":79.889,"endTime":86.759,"body":"facilitator. Her memoir, called"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":79.889,"endTime":86.759,"body":"the butterfly years, a journey"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":86.789,"endTime":91.649,"body":"through grief toward hope, gives"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":86.789,"endTime":91.649,"body":"you have a bit more of an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":91.649,"endTime":97.379,"body":"indication of what we'll be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":91.649,"endTime":97.379,"body":"talking about today. Her book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":97.409,"endTime":104.819,"body":"details her personal journey"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":97.409,"endTime":104.819,"body":"through grief. And she hopes to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":104.819,"endTime":109.139,"body":"inspire others to work through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":104.819,"endTime":109.139,"body":"their grief and find hope. On"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":109.139,"endTime":115.349,"body":"the other side. This topic is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":109.139,"endTime":115.349,"body":"immensely tender, of course. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":115.889,"endTime":121.619,"body":"I am really looking forward to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":115.889,"endTime":121.619,"body":"hearing Cathy's own story and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":121.619,"endTime":126.659,"body":"having her share that with us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":121.619,"endTime":126.659,"body":"all. But also hearing what has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":126.659,"endTime":136.799,"body":"come out of her story. And yes,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":126.659,"endTime":136.799,"body":"and understanding what can come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":136.799,"endTime":141.599,"body":"beyond grief because of course,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":136.799,"endTime":141.599,"body":"so often it feels like it is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":141.599,"endTime":148.079,"body":"end not only of the person or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":141.599,"endTime":148.079,"body":"the experience that we loved the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":148.109,"endTime":152.459,"body":"time of life that we loved, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":148.109,"endTime":152.459,"body":"animal that we loved, Grief can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":152.459,"endTime":158.609,"body":"show up in so many different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":152.459,"endTime":158.609,"body":"ways that it feels so final, of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":158.609,"endTime":167.729,"body":"course, and understanding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":158.609,"endTime":167.729,"body":"techniques, tools, ways of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":167.729,"endTime":174.179,"body":"thinking ways of reflecting that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":167.729,"endTime":174.179,"body":"can help us find hope feels like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":174.209,"endTime":181.409,"body":"a really beautiful thing. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":174.209,"endTime":181.409,"body":"hope, of course is one of our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":182.339,"endTime":187.769,"body":"main tools for maintaining a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":182.339,"endTime":187.769,"body":"kind of compassionate stance in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":187.769,"endTime":193.619,"body":"life. And I'm really looking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":187.769,"endTime":193.619,"body":"forward to, to exploring this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":193.619,"endTime":198.899,"body":"with Kathy and hearing her"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":193.619,"endTime":198.899,"body":"wisdom and her experience. She's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":198.899,"endTime":203.129,"body":"also the president of artists"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":198.899,"endTime":203.129,"body":"and creative, which is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":203.129,"endTime":208.829,"body":"staffing and recruiting agency"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":203.129,"endTime":208.829,"body":"in Los Angeles. So she's got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":208.829,"endTime":216.449,"body":"these two very different kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":208.829,"endTime":216.449,"body":"aspects of what she can share"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":216.449,"endTime":222.029,"body":"with us. And my sense is that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":216.449,"endTime":222.029,"body":"she's very firmly in the real"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":222.029,"endTime":227.429,"body":"world, you know, running,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":222.029,"endTime":227.429,"body":"running a busy business, dealing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":227.429,"endTime":233.339,"body":"with lots of people, and also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":227.429,"endTime":233.339,"body":"dealing with real life and with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":233.339,"endTime":240.809,"body":"the things that life can throw"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":233.339,"endTime":240.809,"body":"at us. There is a quote from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":241.019,"endTime":246.659,"body":"someone about her book, The"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":241.019,"endTime":246.659,"body":"butterfly is and this really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":246.659,"endTime":251.789,"body":"resonated with me. The quote"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":246.659,"endTime":251.789,"body":"says, and it's a bit of feedback"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":251.789,"endTime":256.199,"body":"from somebody says, It is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":251.789,"endTime":256.199,"body":"surprising how few books there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":256.199,"endTime":260.759,"body":"are that deal with first hand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":256.199,"endTime":260.759,"body":"accounts of grief, especially of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":260.759,"endTime":266.189,"body":"a parent, when it is such a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":260.759,"endTime":266.189,"body":"universal experience. The"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":266.189,"endTime":271.439,"body":"butterfly years fills that gap"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":266.189,"endTime":271.439,"body":"in a beautiful, honest way. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":272.399,"endTime":276.419,"body":"and the other thing as well is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":272.399,"endTime":276.419,"body":"that her next book is actually a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":276.419,"endTime":279.299,"body":"journal, which obviously"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":276.419,"endTime":279.299,"body":"resonates really deeply with me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":279.299,"endTime":283.889,"body":"because journaling is one of my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":279.299,"endTime":283.889,"body":"primary tools. And obviously one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":283.889,"endTime":287.339,"body":"of the things that I introduced"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":283.889,"endTime":287.339,"body":"many of my clients to or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":287.339,"endTime":289.889,"body":"encouraged one of my clients to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":287.339,"endTime":289.889,"body":"practice as we're working"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":289.889,"endTime":296.849,"body":"together coaching. So that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":289.889,"endTime":296.849,"body":"really resonates too. And yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":297.269,"endTime":300.779,"body":"we'll just wait for Kathy to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":297.269,"endTime":300.779,"body":"join us and And I'll be back"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":300.779,"endTime":301.379,"body":"here in a moment."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":311.88,"endTime":320.22,"body":"Great. So, hello again, Kathy."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":311.88,"endTime":320.22,"body":"is really lovely to see you. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":320.22,"endTime":323.94,"body":"I know we were just saying that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":320.22,"endTime":323.94,"body":"this is third time lucky that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":323.94,"endTime":334.29,"body":"we've we've made it. So it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":323.94,"endTime":334.29,"body":"yes, yeah. So I've shared with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":334.35,"endTime":340.5,"body":"people before, before you join"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":334.35,"endTime":340.5,"body":"the call a little bit about your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":340.62,"endTime":346.08,"body":"background and about what you do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":340.62,"endTime":346.08,"body":"for work. And, and I've also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":346.08,"endTime":351.36,"body":"shared the quote that I came"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":346.08,"endTime":351.36,"body":"across that someone wrote about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":351.36,"endTime":355.44,"body":"your book, The butterfly years,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":351.36,"endTime":355.44,"body":"and just saying, it's surprising"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":355.44,"endTime":358.77,"body":"how few books there are that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":355.44,"endTime":358.77,"body":"deal with firsthand accounts of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":358.77,"endTime":366.48,"body":"grief. And that comment really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":358.77,"endTime":366.48,"body":"struck me. And, and I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":366.48,"endTime":369.21,"body":"reflecting on it, I thought,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":366.48,"endTime":369.21,"body":"Gosh, it's so true. You know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":369.21,"endTime":374.55,"body":"there are lots of books about,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":369.21,"endTime":374.55,"body":"about love. There are lots of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":374.55,"endTime":383.04,"body":"books about personal growth. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":374.55,"endTime":383.04,"body":"grief can be and is such a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":383.13,"endTime":388.26,"body":"painful, tender topic, but I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":383.13,"endTime":388.26,"body":"think we often shy away from it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":388.68,"endTime":392.37,"body":"And, and so I'm really grateful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":388.68,"endTime":392.37,"body":"that you're here to help us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":392.55,"endTime":402.15,"body":"explore it more fully. So I know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":392.55,"endTime":402.15,"body":"that that first book that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":402.15,"endTime":407.34,"body":"wrote is a memoir. And what I'd"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":402.15,"endTime":407.34,"body":"really like to do is, dive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":407.43,"endTime":411.39,"body":"straight into your story,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":407.43,"endTime":411.39,"body":"actually, and just invite you to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":411.39,"endTime":416.31,"body":"share with us a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":411.39,"endTime":416.31,"body":"what took you to writing that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":416.31,"endTime":421.29,"body":"book. And so, yeah, over to you,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":416.31,"endTime":421.29,"body":"Kathy."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":421.679,"endTime":427.169,"body":"Thank you. So, you're right, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":421.679,"endTime":427.169,"body":"that that book is in a more, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":427.169,"endTime":433.079,"body":"that wasn't my intent."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":427.169,"endTime":433.079,"body":"Originally, I had several losses"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":433.079,"endTime":437.189,"body":"in a very, very short period of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":433.079,"endTime":437.189,"body":"time, my stepmother passed away"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":437.189,"endTime":440.699,"body":"in January, then my father"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":437.189,"endTime":440.699,"body":"passed away in February, then my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":440.699,"endTime":444.479,"body":"mother passed away in April, all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":440.699,"endTime":444.479,"body":"together, and then that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":445.019,"endTime":448.289,"body":"following couple of years, some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":445.019,"endTime":448.289,"body":"other people passed away, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":448.289,"endTime":451.589,"body":"then my stepfather passed away."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":448.289,"endTime":451.589,"body":"So it was a very, I would say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":451.889,"endTime":458.189,"body":"tumultuous time, as you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":451.889,"endTime":458.189,"body":"imagine. And I had learned some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":458.189,"endTime":463.169,"body":"things about myself through this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":458.189,"endTime":463.169,"body":"process. And certainly, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":463.229,"endTime":468.359,"body":"journaling was a big, big part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":463.229,"endTime":468.359,"body":"of that, to be able to just get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":468.389,"endTime":473.639,"body":"my emotions out specially"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":468.389,"endTime":473.639,"body":"because at the time, I felt that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":474.719,"endTime":477.689,"body":"people didn't really want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":474.719,"endTime":477.689,"body":"hear it, you know, or just my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":477.689,"endTime":481.379,"body":"loved ones were tired of kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":477.689,"endTime":481.379,"body":"maybe hearing it again, or at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":481.379,"endTime":485.159,"body":"least that was a story I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":481.379,"endTime":485.159,"body":"telling myself. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":485.159,"endTime":490.589,"body":"journaling ended up being a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":485.159,"endTime":490.589,"body":"really a lifeline just to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":490.589,"endTime":495.689,"body":"able to not only get my thoughts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":490.589,"endTime":495.689,"body":"out, but I realised that it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":495.689,"endTime":499.649,"body":"my opportunity to continue these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":495.689,"endTime":499.649,"body":"conversations with those who had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":499.649,"endTime":503.609,"body":"passed, and maybe say things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":499.649,"endTime":503.609,"body":"that I just hadn't had the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":503.609,"endTime":509.609,"body":"chance to say. So my original"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":503.609,"endTime":509.609,"body":"intent, when I was thinking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":509.609,"endTime":514.439,"body":"about this idea was to create"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":509.609,"endTime":514.439,"body":"some sort of a self help book,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":514.919,"endTime":519.209,"body":"some sort of a, something that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":514.919,"endTime":519.209,"body":"can hands to other people to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":519.239,"endTime":523.049,"body":"help support them in their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":519.239,"endTime":523.049,"body":"journey through grief. So a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":523.049,"endTime":528.179,"body":"journal was what I had intended"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":523.049,"endTime":528.179,"body":"to create initially. But I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":528.179,"endTime":534.419,"body":"think that people up there had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":528.179,"endTime":534.419,"body":"that idea for me at that time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":534.419,"endTime":538.919,"body":"yet. And anytime I would sit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":534.419,"endTime":538.919,"body":"down to create this journal just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":539.189,"endTime":542.609,"body":"it just wasn't happening. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":539.189,"endTime":542.609,"body":"the stories ended up being more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":542.609,"endTime":547.919,"body":"of a memoir and my story and my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":542.609,"endTime":547.919,"body":"my mother's story. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":547.919,"endTime":550.979,"body":"struggled with it. And that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":547.919,"endTime":550.979,"body":"why I took this little book took"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":550.979,"endTime":554.279,"body":"me three years to write this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":550.979,"endTime":554.279,"body":"book because I was in conflict"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":554.729,"endTime":562.379,"body":"in with what I thought was my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":554.729,"endTime":562.379,"body":"external desire to create. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":562.379,"endTime":567.779,"body":"that was in conflict with what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":562.379,"endTime":567.779,"body":"my internal need was to just be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":567.779,"endTime":572.339,"body":"able to share this child their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":567.779,"endTime":572.339,"body":"story. So once that book was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":572.339,"endTime":576.119,"body":"done is I was able to just turn"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":572.339,"endTime":576.119,"body":"my attention to the journal and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":576.149,"endTime":580.319,"body":"within a short period of time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":576.149,"endTime":580.319,"body":"created the journal, but the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":580.319,"endTime":584.159,"body":"memoir had to come first. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":580.319,"endTime":584.159,"body":"didn't realise it at the time."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":585.089,"endTime":585.689,"body":"So definitely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":586.92,"endTime":590.88,"body":"I love that reflection of that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":586.92,"endTime":590.88,"body":"kind of external desire and then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":590.88,"endTime":595.65,"body":"that internal the fire Well yes,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":590.88,"endTime":595.65,"body":"that's nice external desire and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":595.65,"endTime":599.97,"body":"the internal fire you know, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":595.65,"endTime":599.97,"body":"sense of like what's really true"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":600.0,"endTime":605.13,"body":"Driving the creative process."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":600.0,"endTime":605.13,"body":"And then the recognition"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":605.13,"endTime":608.28,"body":"actually, I've just got to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":605.13,"endTime":608.28,"body":"this. But first, this needs to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":608.28,"endTime":618.45,"body":"be expressed. Yes, in some way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":608.28,"endTime":618.45,"body":"Yes. And so and so when you,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":619.41,"endTime":623.91,"body":"when you think about that, just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":619.41,"endTime":623.91,"body":"that word, grief, now you've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":624.09,"endTime":634.35,"body":"obviously experienced, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":624.09,"endTime":634.35,"body":"a cascade of loss. But when you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":634.35,"endTime":640.02,"body":"think about grief, and maybe the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":634.35,"endTime":640.02,"body":"kind of definition of grief,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":640.29,"endTime":647.43,"body":"what what does it? What does it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":640.29,"endTime":647.43,"body":"mean for you? Is it is it just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":647.43,"endTime":649.29,"body":"the loss of people, or?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":650.43,"endTime":653.85,"body":"Oh, I think grief comes in so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":650.43,"endTime":653.85,"body":"many shapes for so many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":653.85,"endTime":657.72,"body":"different people. For me, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":653.85,"endTime":657.72,"body":"story is about loss of people."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":657.75,"endTime":662.61,"body":"But there's certainly grief and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":657.75,"endTime":662.61,"body":"mourning, the loss of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":662.61,"endTime":666.81,"body":"relationship, loss of a job. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":662.61,"endTime":666.81,"body":"mean, I'm in the recruitment"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.81,"endTime":670.95,"body":"space. So I see that with people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.81,"endTime":670.95,"body":"who've lost their job, or right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":670.95,"endTime":674.34,"body":"now we're hearing so much about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":670.95,"endTime":674.34,"body":"layoffs. There's definitely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":674.34,"endTime":680.79,"body":"grief associated with that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":674.34,"endTime":680.79,"body":"Certainly, loss of a four legged"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":680.88,"endTime":685.65,"body":"furry friend, I think it's it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":680.88,"endTime":685.65,"body":"really, really impactful that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":685.65,"endTime":690.0,"body":"people don't put weight to some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":685.65,"endTime":690.0,"body":"of these losses, to my story"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":690.0,"endTime":693.87,"body":"happens to be about loss of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":690.0,"endTime":693.87,"body":"person, but I think just loss of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":693.87,"endTime":699.84,"body":"relationships is really about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":693.87,"endTime":699.84,"body":"loss. And how do we come to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":699.84,"endTime":704.34,"body":"terms with that loss? In some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":699.84,"endTime":704.34,"body":"instances, when it's loss of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":704.34,"endTime":710.01,"body":"loved one, we don't get that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":704.34,"endTime":710.01,"body":"back. So how do we kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":710.01,"endTime":716.85,"body":"instil hope within us? How do we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":710.01,"endTime":716.85,"body":"still admit the darkness find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":716.85,"endTime":722.07,"body":"that morsel of gratitude that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":716.85,"endTime":722.07,"body":"can hold on to, and that becomes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":722.07,"endTime":728.58,"body":"that lifeline that I mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":722.07,"endTime":728.58,"body":"with the journaling that really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":728.85,"endTime":733.08,"body":"recognising what I still had,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":728.85,"endTime":733.08,"body":"versus what I didn't have any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":733.08,"endTime":739.44,"body":"more was really the catalyst of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":733.08,"endTime":739.44,"body":"the transformation, or just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":739.44,"endTime":743.04,"body":"coming through it. I don't think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":739.44,"endTime":743.04,"body":"we get over loss. That's just my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":743.04,"endTime":747.87,"body":"personal that's just how it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":743.04,"endTime":747.87,"body":"been. For me, it's been 11"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":747.87,"endTime":752.94,"body":"years, and it still feels pretty"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":747.87,"endTime":752.94,"body":"raw. But I do think that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":752.94,"endTime":758.94,"body":"learn how to live with it, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":752.94,"endTime":758.94,"body":"how to continue growing in our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":758.94,"endTime":763.14,"body":"lives and growing for ourselves,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":758.94,"endTime":763.14,"body":"even though the loss occurred."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":764.01,"endTime":766.41,"body":"But it took a while to realise"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":764.01,"endTime":766.41,"body":"that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":766.89,"endTime":770.73,"body":"it's such a, it's such an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":766.89,"endTime":770.73,"body":"important point. I mean, so many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":770.76,"endTime":776.46,"body":"important points in there, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":770.76,"endTime":776.46,"body":"often we don't pay sufficient"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":776.49,"endTime":780.63,"body":"attention to some of the griefs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":776.49,"endTime":780.63,"body":"that we experience in life, or,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":780.66,"endTime":783.33,"body":"or we don't pay sufficient"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":780.66,"endTime":783.33,"body":"attention to the grief that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":783.51,"endTime":790.17,"body":"others experience. Because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":783.51,"endTime":790.17,"body":"think it can be, we can get sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":790.17,"endTime":795.54,"body":"of trapped or lost in the trap"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":790.17,"endTime":795.54,"body":"of, you know, like, well, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":795.57,"endTime":800.67,"body":"it was just an animal or, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":795.57,"endTime":800.67,"body":"you'll get another job or there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":800.67,"endTime":803.52,"body":"are plenty more fish in the sea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":800.67,"endTime":803.52,"body":"when when a relationship ends,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":803.52,"endTime":806.52,"body":"you know, these kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":803.52,"endTime":806.52,"body":"platitudes that we can roll out,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":807.33,"endTime":811.14,"body":"that are, you know, they come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":807.33,"endTime":811.14,"body":"from a good place, they come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":811.14,"endTime":814.17,"body":"from a place of I don't want you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":811.14,"endTime":814.17,"body":"to be in pain. So I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":814.17,"endTime":820.14,"body":"say something that will stop me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":814.17,"endTime":820.14,"body":"feeling your pain. But actually,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":820.14,"endTime":822.45,"body":"what we're doing is we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":820.14,"endTime":822.45,"body":"dismissing their experience,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":822.45,"endTime":822.96,"body":"aren't we?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":824.19,"endTime":828.0,"body":"Exactly. And I think we don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":824.19,"endTime":828.0,"body":"realise it, in that, in that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":828.0,"endTime":832.08,"body":"moment of wanting to help."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":828.0,"endTime":832.08,"body":"There's judgement within that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":833.4,"endTime":838.29,"body":"judgement of you, maybe you've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":833.4,"endTime":838.29,"body":"grieved long enough, it's time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":838.32,"endTime":842.34,"body":"to get over it. And I think only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":838.32,"endTime":842.34,"body":"that person going through it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":842.34,"endTime":846.03,"body":"realises when that time is right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":842.34,"endTime":846.03,"body":"for them to do what it is that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":846.03,"endTime":850.62,"body":"they need to do. So that was an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":846.03,"endTime":850.62,"body":"interesting journey. You know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":850.62,"endTime":855.42,"body":"there's certainly a lot of self"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":850.62,"endTime":855.42,"body":"judgement. For me, that's part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":855.42,"endTime":859.2,"body":"of what I talk about. Like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":855.42,"endTime":859.2,"body":"recognising like, I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":859.2,"endTime":862.17,"body":"grieving the same as like some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":859.2,"endTime":862.17,"body":"other people who are grieving."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":862.2,"endTime":866.13,"body":"It certainly wasn't grieving the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":862.2,"endTime":866.13,"body":"way for my mom the way she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":866.13,"endTime":871.17,"body":"grieved for her mom. And so I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":866.13,"endTime":871.17,"body":"had judgement in there like I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":871.17,"endTime":876.15,"body":"was doing was I doing it right,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":871.17,"endTime":876.15,"body":"by doing it enough. So I just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":876.15,"endTime":878.85,"body":"had to come to terms with that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":876.15,"endTime":878.85,"body":"that we all are going to go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":878.85,"endTime":882.69,"body":"through this unfortunately, at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":878.85,"endTime":882.69,"body":"some point in our lives, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":882.69,"endTime":887.88,"body":"that we're all going to grieve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":882.69,"endTime":887.88,"body":"it our way. Whatever way that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":887.88,"endTime":895.14,"body":"is, that's right for us and to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":887.88,"endTime":895.14,"body":"not allow what we may deem as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":895.14,"endTime":899.28,"body":"being judgement coming from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":895.14,"endTime":899.28,"body":"society or from our family units"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":899.28,"endTime":903.99,"body":"or from the culture or that were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":899.28,"endTime":903.99,"body":"a part of, in any way, impact"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":903.99,"endTime":907.53,"body":"that just couldn't go through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":903.99,"endTime":907.53,"body":"the process, whatever we need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":907.53,"endTime":907.65,"body":"go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":907.65,"endTime":911.37,"body":"through it. Yeah. Because that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":907.65,"endTime":911.37,"body":"think that's such a lovely point"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":911.37,"endTime":914.94,"body":"as well around the culture that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":911.37,"endTime":914.94,"body":"we've grown up in, or the, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":914.94,"endTime":918.33,"body":"the family unit, the kind of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":914.94,"endTime":918.33,"body":"stories that we can carry about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":918.33,"endTime":923.73,"body":"how one is meant to grieve,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":918.33,"endTime":923.73,"body":"societally, familiarly,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":923.88,"endTime":928.44,"body":"culturally, whatever it might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":923.88,"endTime":928.44,"body":"be. And yeah, and I love your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":928.44,"endTime":934.86,"body":"observation of that internal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":928.44,"endTime":934.86,"body":"judgement of have, am I grieving"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":934.89,"endTime":940.59,"body":"in the right way? Am I Am I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":934.89,"endTime":940.59,"body":"doing this too much? I remember"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":940.62,"endTime":950.07,"body":"my my mother died seven years"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":940.62,"endTime":950.07,"body":"ago now. And I was devastated."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":950.37,"endTime":955.71,"body":"utterly devastated. And, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":950.37,"endTime":955.71,"body":"there was a point at which I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":956.04,"endTime":960.0,"body":"just thought, am I ever going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":956.04,"endTime":960.0,"body":"be able to stop crying about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":960.0,"endTime":964.17,"body":"this? Am I ever going to reach a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":960.0,"endTime":964.17,"body":"point where I can, someone can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":964.17,"endTime":967.65,"body":"mention her name, and it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":964.17,"endTime":967.65,"body":"going to be this? This huge up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":967.65,"endTime":970.98,"body":"well, and see, I've got to come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":967.65,"endTime":970.98,"body":"from a big family. And so sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":970.98,"endTime":974.37,"body":"of seeing it wasn't. The others"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":970.98,"endTime":974.37,"body":"weren't quite having the same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":974.37,"endTime":978.66,"body":"response. And then wondering, Am"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":974.37,"endTime":978.66,"body":"I milking? This was one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":978.66,"endTime":981.27,"body":"thoughts that went through my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":978.66,"endTime":981.27,"body":"head, am I my trying to get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":981.27,"endTime":985.29,"body":"attention? And the youngest,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":981.27,"endTime":985.29,"body":"that said, story I carry, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":985.29,"endTime":991.17,"body":"know, I'm an attention seeker."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":985.29,"endTime":991.17,"body":"And, and so was I like, using my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":991.17,"endTime":995.64,"body":"mother's grief to do that? I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":991.17,"endTime":995.64,"body":"mean, it was. So yes, this this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":995.73,"endTime":1003.11,"body":"place of like, coming into a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":995.73,"endTime":1003.11,"body":"compassionate place, and being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1003.11,"endTime":1010.52,"body":"able to recognise that our grief"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1003.11,"endTime":1010.52,"body":"is ours. We grieve our own way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.32,"endTime":1016.07,"body":"Exactly. And I'm glad you said"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.32,"endTime":1016.07,"body":"that just in terms of watching"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.07,"endTime":1022.1,"body":"others, and wondering, Am I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.07,"endTime":1022.1,"body":"like, am I seeking this? Or am I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1022.13,"endTime":1028.07,"body":"bringing this on for myself. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1022.13,"endTime":1028.07,"body":"I know, one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1028.07,"endTime":1031.52,"body":"you write about is just loving"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1028.07,"endTime":1031.52,"body":"yourself. And I think that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1031.52,"endTime":1036.59,"body":"such a powerful statement, such"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1031.52,"endTime":1036.59,"body":"a powerful thing to remember"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1036.62,"endTime":1040.16,"body":"that, you know, just just love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1036.62,"endTime":1040.16,"body":"ourselves and just go through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1040.16,"endTime":1045.65,"body":"whatever it is, we need to get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1040.16,"endTime":1045.65,"body":"the strength to go to keep"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1045.65,"endTime":1052.46,"body":"going, right. And the grief is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1045.65,"endTime":1052.46,"body":"really a journey. And there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1052.46,"endTime":1057.71,"body":"many, many twists and turns and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1052.46,"endTime":1057.71,"body":"that journey, and there may be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1057.71,"endTime":1060.56,"body":"other people, I think, on that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1057.71,"endTime":1060.56,"body":"road with us, but they're all in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1060.56,"endTime":1063.08,"body":"their little cars, and they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1060.56,"endTime":1063.08,"body":"just going through their own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1063.08,"endTime":1067.82,"body":"journey. And there's not a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1063.08,"endTime":1067.82,"body":"there's not a rush to get to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1067.82,"endTime":1070.22,"body":"end faster than the other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1067.82,"endTime":1070.22,"body":"person, we'll just have to take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1070.22,"endTime":1071.72,"body":"our time, whatever that means,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1071.87,"endTime":1076.79,"body":"as I'm listening to them also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1071.87,"endTime":1076.79,"body":"reflecting on on something you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1076.79,"endTime":1080.81,"body":"said about how you were grieving"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1076.79,"endTime":1080.81,"body":"for your own mother. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1080.84,"endTime":1085.55,"body":"recognising the complexity that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1080.84,"endTime":1085.55,"body":"can sit within grief as well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1085.55,"endTime":1088.91,"body":"You know, within grief, there is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1085.55,"endTime":1088.91,"body":"when we're very familiar with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1088.94,"endTime":1094.58,"body":"there is sadness, and there is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1088.94,"endTime":1094.58,"body":"pain of loss. But there can also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1094.58,"endTime":1104.78,"body":"be anger, anger, frustration,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1094.58,"endTime":1104.78,"body":"guilt, shame. Oh, yeah. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1104.84,"endTime":1110.51,"body":"you know, gosh, this whole world"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1104.84,"endTime":1110.51,"body":"of emotion that can sit in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1110.51,"endTime":1115.19,"body":"there. And I know that one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1110.51,"endTime":1115.19,"body":"the things that you talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1115.19,"endTime":1119.96,"body":"is without judging and without"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1115.19,"endTime":1119.96,"body":"rushing, and I kind of wonder,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1119.96,"endTime":1126.08,"body":"like, what, what, what felt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1119.96,"endTime":1126.08,"body":"like, what aspect of the way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1126.08,"endTime":1129.02,"body":"that you approached it taught"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1126.08,"endTime":1129.02,"body":"you that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1132.26,"endTime":1136.49,"body":"Well, it was not the case in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1132.26,"endTime":1136.49,"body":"beginning. And I think that was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1136.49,"endTime":1140.99,"body":"what what my ended up being kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1136.49,"endTime":1140.99,"body":"of my goal is trying to help"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1140.99,"endTime":1145.28,"body":"other people and share that with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1140.99,"endTime":1145.28,"body":"them. I think everybody goes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1145.28,"endTime":1147.5,"body":"through whatever they need to go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1145.28,"endTime":1147.5,"body":"through, but to kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1147.5,"endTime":1153.41,"body":"recognise that it's okay. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1147.5,"endTime":1153.41,"body":"know, it's okay. That we feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1153.44,"endTime":1159.71,"body":"how we feel, but that that may"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1153.44,"endTime":1159.71,"body":"not be the truth forever. So for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1159.71,"endTime":1163.85,"body":"me, in the beginning, there was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1159.71,"endTime":1163.85,"body":"a lot of anger. My mother passed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1163.85,"endTime":1168.59,"body":"away from lung cancer, and she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1163.85,"endTime":1168.59,"body":"smoked to like the very last day"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1169.4,"endTime":1174.23,"body":"before she was hospitalised. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1169.4,"endTime":1174.23,"body":"so there was a lot of anger in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1174.23,"endTime":1177.71,"body":"that, and I think I channelled"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1174.23,"endTime":1177.71,"body":"my anger towards her cigarettes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1177.74,"endTime":1182.99,"body":"as a symbol of whatever was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1177.74,"endTime":1182.99,"body":"going on. So that final year,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1184.28,"endTime":1190.55,"body":"you know, I, I'm embarrassed to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1184.28,"endTime":1190.55,"body":"say or I feel guilt to say that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1190.55,"endTime":1194.42,"body":"we fought a lot over those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1190.55,"endTime":1194.42,"body":"stupid cigarettes. Right? And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1194.42,"endTime":1198.2,"body":"then, in hindsight, I was like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1194.42,"endTime":1198.2,"body":"What Why did you even do that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1198.2,"endTime":1203.33,"body":"Kathy? Like that didn't even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1198.2,"endTime":1203.33,"body":"matter. that point. And my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1203.33,"endTime":1208.34,"body":"brother also smokes. For them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1203.33,"endTime":1208.34,"body":"that year was connection and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1208.34,"endTime":1211.16,"body":"sitting around and having a cup"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1208.34,"endTime":1211.16,"body":"of tea in the cigarette together"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1211.16,"endTime":1216.2,"body":"and talking and bonding. And for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1211.16,"endTime":1216.2,"body":"me, it was like, you know, just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1216.38,"endTime":1220.4,"body":"fighting over this thing. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1216.38,"endTime":1220.4,"body":"was like, You know what, I can't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1220.4,"endTime":1223.7,"body":"change other people. And that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1220.4,"endTime":1223.7,"body":"was the biggest lesson for me is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1223.73,"endTime":1227.21,"body":"I can't change other people, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1223.73,"endTime":1227.21,"body":"only thing I can change is how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1227.21,"endTime":1232.28,"body":"I'm reacting to what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1227.21,"endTime":1232.28,"body":"triggering me and negatively."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1232.79,"endTime":1238.82,"body":"And can I learn to do that as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1232.79,"endTime":1238.82,"body":"I'm being present with whatever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1238.82,"endTime":1242.45,"body":"situation is happening, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1238.82,"endTime":1242.45,"body":"with her was too late, right?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1242.48,"endTime":1247.85,"body":"With her, I realised that after"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1242.48,"endTime":1247.85,"body":"the fact. So I'm hoping that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1247.88,"endTime":1252.38,"body":"others kind of realise that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1247.88,"endTime":1252.38,"body":"could just be present and just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1252.38,"endTime":1255.62,"body":"be together and just have that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1252.38,"endTime":1255.62,"body":"moment be a moment of gratitude"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1255.65,"endTime":1262.28,"body":"that we have that time together."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1255.65,"endTime":1262.28,"body":"And just let it be. Because that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1262.28,"endTime":1266.12,"body":"was not how I dealt with it. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1262.28,"endTime":1266.12,"body":"it was a big learning that came"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1266.15,"endTime":1267.08,"body":"after the fact."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1270.44,"endTime":1276.38,"body":"I realised this might sound like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1270.44,"endTime":1276.38,"body":"a slightly odd reflection, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1276.38,"endTime":1279.74,"body":"might be something that that has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1276.38,"endTime":1279.74,"body":"already come to you. Or it might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1279.74,"endTime":1287.15,"body":"be something very other than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1279.74,"endTime":1287.15,"body":"that. But just as I'm listening,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1287.18,"endTime":1292.07,"body":"I also thought if we kind of pan"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1287.18,"endTime":1292.07,"body":"back and back and back and look"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1292.07,"endTime":1295.76,"body":"at the situation that you went"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1292.07,"endTime":1295.76,"body":"through, from, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1295.76,"endTime":1301.4,"body":"most kind of deepest, profound"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1295.76,"endTime":1301.4,"body":"perspective. Gosh, what a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1301.43,"endTime":1310.4,"body":"parenting lesson she gave you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1301.43,"endTime":1310.4,"body":"Those last month months?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.06,"endTime":1314.78,"body":"She Yeah. She still gives me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.06,"endTime":1314.78,"body":"lessons."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1315.59,"endTime":1318.53,"body":"And there we go. That's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1315.59,"endTime":1318.53,"body":"really beautiful thing, isn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1318.53,"endTime":1323.96,"body":"it? Gosh. Um, it's really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1318.53,"endTime":1323.96,"body":"interesting, Kathy, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1323.99,"endTime":1327.68,"body":"people who are listening here,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1323.99,"endTime":1327.68,"body":"many of them will be familiar"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1327.68,"endTime":1335.24,"body":"that my, my mother also died of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1327.68,"endTime":1335.24,"body":"cancer and, and smoked right up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1335.24,"endTime":1344.96,"body":"to the end. And I something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1335.24,"endTime":1344.96,"body":"inside me whispered as we knew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1344.96,"endTime":1350.12,"body":"that she was going to die, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1344.96,"endTime":1350.12,"body":"at the time I, I smoked, I can't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1350.12,"endTime":1357.2,"body":"believe I smoked. It feels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1350.12,"endTime":1357.2,"body":"astonishing to me. But something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1358.19,"endTime":1364.19,"body":"prompted me in that time to take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1358.19,"endTime":1364.19,"body":"the decision to get help to stop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1364.19,"endTime":1367.91,"body":"smoking completely, once and for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1364.19,"endTime":1367.91,"body":"all. And thank goodness, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1367.91,"endTime":1373.16,"body":"know that that worked. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1367.91,"endTime":1373.16,"body":"recognised almost, I suppose a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1373.16,"endTime":1375.53,"body":"bit like when you said about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1373.16,"endTime":1375.53,"body":"your brother kind of sitting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.56,"endTime":1384.26,"body":"with her, I would have used it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.56,"endTime":1384.26,"body":"as a way of I don't know. Both"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1384.26,"endTime":1389.33,"body":"sabotaging myself but also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1384.26,"endTime":1389.33,"body":"connecting with her. And yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1389.39,"endTime":1395.99,"body":"it really. But I also your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1389.39,"endTime":1395.99,"body":"observation about that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1396.05,"endTime":1401.72,"body":"externalisation that we can do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1396.05,"endTime":1401.72,"body":"where we we blame something else"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1401.72,"endTime":1406.58,"body":"for the experience. It's almost"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1401.72,"endTime":1406.58,"body":"like I think when when a loved"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1406.58,"endTime":1411.98,"body":"one is dying, or or we can see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1406.58,"endTime":1411.98,"body":"the end of a relationship is on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1411.98,"endTime":1417.17,"body":"its way or we know that our job"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1411.98,"endTime":1417.17,"body":"is is at risk, we have this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1417.17,"endTime":1423.8,"body":"anticipatory grief as well. And,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1417.17,"endTime":1423.8,"body":"and I'm not sure we pay enough"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1423.8,"endTime":1427.25,"body":"attention to that, because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1423.8,"endTime":1427.25,"body":"think there there is a trauma"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1427.49,"endTime":1432.68,"body":"associated with that. Because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1427.49,"endTime":1432.68,"body":"what we don't always remember is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1432.68,"endTime":1437.99,"body":"that we've been grieving for far"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1432.68,"endTime":1437.99,"body":"longer the pain we have been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1437.99,"endTime":1441.53,"body":"feeling for far longer. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1437.99,"endTime":1441.53,"body":"think that's what happens when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1441.8,"endTime":1445.85,"body":"the grief occurs, the loss"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1441.8,"endTime":1445.85,"body":"occurs. For those around us,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1445.85,"endTime":1449.06,"body":"they might sort of see well, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1445.85,"endTime":1449.06,"body":"know, you should have healed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1449.42,"endTime":1453.86,"body":"from that by now. But actually,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1449.42,"endTime":1453.86,"body":"you need, you need the equal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1453.86,"endTime":1459.86,"body":"amount of healing time either"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1453.86,"endTime":1459.86,"body":"end. And then as you say, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1459.86,"endTime":1466.73,"body":"never really lost doesn't go. We"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1459.86,"endTime":1466.73,"body":"will always carry that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1467.3,"endTime":1472.13,"body":"Yes. Yes. I'm glad you brought"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1467.3,"endTime":1472.13,"body":"that up any because I think we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1472.34,"endTime":1479.96,"body":"you're absolutely right. I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1472.34,"endTime":1479.96,"body":"our society doesn't really I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1479.96,"endTime":1483.32,"body":"think that allows the right word"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1479.96,"endTime":1483.32,"body":"but doesn't create the space for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1483.32,"endTime":1488.18,"body":"us to recognise that the grief"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1483.32,"endTime":1488.18,"body":"may have started many, many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1488.18,"endTime":1493.4,"body":"years ago. I know mine did when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1488.18,"endTime":1493.4,"body":"she first got her diagnosis. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1493.4,"endTime":1499.49,"body":"that was seven years prior to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1493.4,"endTime":1499.49,"body":"her passing. So it truly is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1499.55,"endTime":1505.46,"body":"that A journey that we have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1499.55,"endTime":1505.46,"body":"go through. But then there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1505.46,"endTime":1509.03,"body":"other people within our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1505.46,"endTime":1509.03,"body":"communities and families who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.03,"endTime":1512.63,"body":"just process it differently. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.03,"endTime":1512.63,"body":"to just stay out of judgement"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1512.63,"endTime":1515.6,"body":"and not say, Well, you're not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1512.63,"endTime":1515.6,"body":"grieving enough, or you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1515.6,"endTime":1519.71,"body":"grieving too much. You did you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1515.6,"endTime":1519.71,"body":"not love her. Why? Why are you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1519.71,"endTime":1524.39,"body":"not in tears? 24/7? Right, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1519.71,"endTime":1524.39,"body":"no, that's not the case at all."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1526.16,"endTime":1533.57,"body":"I remember being at a friend of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1526.16,"endTime":1533.57,"body":"my parents who passed away when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1533.57,"endTime":1540.35,"body":"I was in my kind of late teens,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1533.57,"endTime":1540.35,"body":"and at their funeral, and I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1541.7,"endTime":1547.28,"body":"crying. I was, it felt, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1541.7,"endTime":1547.28,"body":"know, felt like a very pain, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1547.28,"endTime":1555.86,"body":"felt pain at what was happening,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1547.28,"endTime":1555.86,"body":"you know, and somebody said to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1555.86,"endTime":1562.67,"body":"me, I didn't think he really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1555.86,"endTime":1562.67,"body":"liked her that much. And a that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1562.67,"endTime":1567.02,"body":"was like, Wow, gosh, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1562.67,"endTime":1567.02,"body":"someone like really calling me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1567.02,"endTime":1572.03,"body":"out. In in that moment. I did"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1567.02,"endTime":1572.03,"body":"find her a very complex person."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1573.23,"endTime":1577.49,"body":"But what I replied, and, and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1573.23,"endTime":1577.49,"body":"word sort of stayed with me was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1577.52,"endTime":1583.7,"body":"it was I was feeling the grief"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1577.52,"endTime":1583.7,"body":"of everyone who loved her. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1583.7,"endTime":1587.03,"body":"think that's the other aspect of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1583.7,"endTime":1587.03,"body":"grief is often we're not just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1587.03,"endTime":1591.68,"body":"carrying our own grief, we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1587.03,"endTime":1591.68,"body":"also carrying the grief of those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1592.01,"endTime":1597.35,"body":"we love. So it's many layered"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1592.01,"endTime":1597.35,"body":"and multi faceted. You know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1597.35,"endTime":1602.78,"body":"it's this very complex"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1597.35,"endTime":1602.78,"body":"structure, I think, if you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1602.78,"endTime":1607.28,"body":"going to draw grief wouldn't be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1602.78,"endTime":1607.28,"body":"a very simple thing."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1608.06,"endTime":1612.8,"body":"Oh, yes, absolutely. And I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1608.06,"endTime":1612.8,"body":"that just naturally as human"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1612.8,"endTime":1618.32,"body":"beings, some of us are more on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1612.8,"endTime":1618.32,"body":"the EQ side of the equation,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1618.32,"endTime":1621.26,"body":"maybe we just are, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1618.32,"endTime":1621.26,"body":"more empathetic, maybe we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1621.26,"endTime":1624.29,"body":"empaths. And maybe we just feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1621.26,"endTime":1624.29,"body":"where other people are coming"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1624.29,"endTime":1628.13,"body":"from and some others aren't. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1624.29,"endTime":1628.13,"body":"that's okay, that they're not,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1628.16,"endTime":1632.87,"body":"but, you know, if we are, then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1628.16,"endTime":1632.87,"body":"that's okay, that we are Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1633.02,"endTime":1640.55,"body":"yeah, exactly. And so there was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1633.02,"endTime":1640.55,"body":"no, yeah, I love this, the no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1640.55,"endTime":1645.29,"body":"judgement of others, and no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1640.55,"endTime":1645.29,"body":"judgement of ourselves. So, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1645.29,"endTime":1651.17,"body":"know in, in you're both in your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1645.29,"endTime":1651.17,"body":"memoir, and in the subsequent"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1651.17,"endTime":1654.14,"body":"journal. So I know that you've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1651.17,"endTime":1654.14,"body":"also created a journal that now"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1654.14,"endTime":1661.01,"body":"sits alongside it. You talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1654.14,"endTime":1661.01,"body":"about the power of positive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1661.01,"endTime":1666.86,"body":"psychology on that journey"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1661.01,"endTime":1666.86,"body":"through grief. And, yeah, I'd"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1666.86,"endTime":1670.19,"body":"love just to sort of explore"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1666.86,"endTime":1670.19,"body":"that a little bit more, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1670.19,"endTime":1676.67,"body":"perhaps maybe even explain a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1670.19,"endTime":1676.67,"body":"little bit about what positive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1676.67,"endTime":1679.19,"body":"psychology actually is."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1680.51,"endTime":1684.62,"body":"Absolutely. I'll give you a bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1680.51,"endTime":1684.62,"body":"of a precursor before we get to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1684.62,"endTime":1691.55,"body":"that moment. I remember very,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1684.62,"endTime":1691.55,"body":"very distinctly that night"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1691.55,"endTime":1695.66,"body":"before my mom passed, and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1691.55,"endTime":1695.66,"body":"day of that when she passed,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1696.14,"endTime":1698.93,"body":"like, my senses were very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1696.14,"endTime":1698.93,"body":"heightened. And I couldn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1698.93,"endTime":1702.47,"body":"figure out what was going on,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1698.93,"endTime":1702.47,"body":"like, food tasted really good."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1703.64,"endTime":1707.54,"body":"Like the flowers were really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1703.64,"endTime":1707.54,"body":"bright, like grass, or the green"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1707.54,"endTime":1711.29,"body":"or the fairway, where they lived"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1707.54,"endTime":1711.29,"body":"by golf course, was really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1711.29,"endTime":1716.66,"body":"bright in green. And it was hard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1711.29,"endTime":1716.66,"body":"for me to recognise what was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1716.66,"endTime":1720.35,"body":"happening and reconcile that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1716.66,"endTime":1720.35,"body":"There was like, all this beauty"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1720.38,"endTime":1725.48,"body":"around me and things just felt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1720.38,"endTime":1725.48,"body":"good. And I felt alive. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1725.75,"endTime":1731.36,"body":"there was this big, big,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1725.75,"endTime":1731.36,"body":"mournful situation that was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1731.36,"endTime":1736.04,"body":"going to be happening the very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1731.36,"endTime":1736.04,"body":"next day, we decided, based on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1736.04,"endTime":1738.53,"body":"my mom's wishes to take her off"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1736.04,"endTime":1738.53,"body":"of life support, so I knew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1738.53,"endTime":1743.48,"body":"exactly when she was going to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1738.53,"endTime":1743.48,"body":"passing. And, you know, was part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1743.48,"endTime":1746.6,"body":"of that decision making which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1743.48,"endTime":1746.6,"body":"talk about judgement and guilt,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1746.63,"endTime":1751.01,"body":"like but that's a that's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1746.63,"endTime":1751.01,"body":"another conversation for sure."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1751.43,"endTime":1758.06,"body":"But at the same time, I couldn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1751.43,"endTime":1758.06,"body":"I couldn't not see all the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1758.06,"endTime":1762.95,"body":"beauty that was around me. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1758.06,"endTime":1762.95,"body":"know exactly. What is going on."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1762.95,"endTime":1769.4,"body":"Like why? Why is so much so much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1762.95,"endTime":1769.4,"body":"beauty and that's kind of where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1769.4,"endTime":1772.88,"body":"the gratitude came from. How can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1769.4,"endTime":1772.88,"body":"I be so grateful for so much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1772.88,"endTime":1776.66,"body":"beauty around me? And especially"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1772.88,"endTime":1776.66,"body":"the flowers It was April that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.66,"endTime":1780.65,"body":"she passed away so everything"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.66,"endTime":1780.65,"body":"was coming? Everything was alive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1780.65,"endTime":1786.56,"body":"at that time. And so that that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1780.65,"endTime":1786.56,"body":"sat with me and I really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1786.56,"endTime":1789.11,"body":"couldn't figure out where that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1786.56,"endTime":1789.11,"body":"was coming from. But that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1789.11,"endTime":1794.54,"body":"continued that continued where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1789.11,"endTime":1794.54,"body":"everything I did everything from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1794.54,"endTime":1798.56,"body":"that moment onwards, just had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1794.54,"endTime":1798.56,"body":"the had a heightened sense to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1798.56,"endTime":1803.69,"body":"them as What if I just like woke"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1798.56,"endTime":1803.69,"body":"up and said, Oh my gosh, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1804.08,"endTime":1807.56,"body":"life is short, you know, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1804.08,"endTime":1807.56,"body":"you do die. And so just take it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1807.56,"endTime":1813.14,"body":"all in as much as you can as. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1807.56,"endTime":1813.14,"body":"I said yes to everything, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1813.59,"endTime":1817.82,"body":"volunteered a lot, I took on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1813.59,"endTime":1817.82,"body":"responsibility in my business,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1818.09,"endTime":1825.17,"body":"greater responsibility in my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1818.09,"endTime":1825.17,"body":"business. And again, just wasn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1825.17,"endTime":1829.94,"body":"quite sure what was happening"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1825.17,"endTime":1829.94,"body":"until I came across this. This"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1829.94,"endTime":1835.61,"body":"concept of post traumatic growth"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1829.94,"endTime":1835.61,"body":"that I had never heard of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1835.61,"endTime":1838.91,"body":"before, I never even knew this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1835.61,"endTime":1838.91,"body":"concept existed, I only heard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1838.91,"endTime":1842.84,"body":"about post traumatic stress"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1838.91,"endTime":1842.84,"body":"disorder. And this really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1842.84,"endTime":1845.75,"body":"resonated with me. And some of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1842.84,"endTime":1845.75,"body":"the things that they talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1845.75,"endTime":1850.22,"body":"in post traumatic growth is how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1845.75,"endTime":1850.22,"body":"people just really say yes to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1850.22,"endTime":1854.3,"body":"life, and they step into it, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1850.22,"endTime":1854.3,"body":"how, you know, people volunteer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1854.33,"endTime":1858.53,"body":"and raise funds for, let's say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1854.33,"endTime":1858.53,"body":"cancer research, if that's kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1858.53,"endTime":1862.94,"body":"of what has impacted your life"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1858.53,"endTime":1862.94,"body":"or your loved ones life, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1862.94,"endTime":1869.24,"body":"they really step into growth."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1862.94,"endTime":1869.24,"body":"And it comes because of trauma."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1869.45,"endTime":1872.6,"body":"And I realised that that was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1869.45,"endTime":1872.6,"body":"what was happening to me, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1872.6,"endTime":1875.48,"body":"just didn't have a word for it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1872.6,"endTime":1875.48,"body":"at the time. But the minute I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1875.48,"endTime":1879.83,"body":"came across that, and that's one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1875.48,"endTime":1879.83,"body":"of the one of the positive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1879.83,"endTime":1883.97,"body":"psychology tenants that they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1879.83,"endTime":1883.97,"body":"talked about, was like, Okay, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1883.97,"endTime":1887.81,"body":"there is something out there,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1883.97,"endTime":1887.81,"body":"I'm not this anomaly that think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1888.59,"endTime":1891.71,"body":"birds are singing and flowers"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1888.59,"endTime":1891.71,"body":"are blooming at a time that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1891.71,"endTime":1895.73,"body":"should just be thinking of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1891.71,"endTime":1895.73,"body":"darkness. So that was a, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1895.73,"endTime":1901.52,"body":"think, a big ray of hope, for me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1895.73,"endTime":1901.52,"body":"that going through this whole"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1901.88,"endTime":1906.95,"body":"grief trauma, that there was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1901.88,"endTime":1906.95,"body":"going to be a light in the sky,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1906.98,"endTime":1909.47,"body":"you know, and lots and lots of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1906.98,"endTime":1909.47,"body":"the darkness there were going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1909.47,"endTime":1917.03,"body":"be stars, as Emerson says in his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1909.47,"endTime":1917.03,"body":"lovely poem. So it was there, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1917.03,"endTime":1921.89,"body":"just had to look for it. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1917.03,"endTime":1921.89,"body":"nature was a beautiful teacher,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1922.61,"endTime":1923.69,"body":"to allow me to see it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1924.98,"endTime":1931.55,"body":"In nature, of course, we see the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1924.98,"endTime":1931.55,"body":"seasons, cycling through and,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1932.81,"endTime":1935.57,"body":"and I'm reminded that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1932.81,"endTime":1935.57,"body":"that beautiful phrase, this too"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1935.57,"endTime":1942.14,"body":"shall pass, you know, this, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1935.57,"endTime":1942.14,"body":"understanding that this feeling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1942.14,"endTime":1946.85,"body":"can change, just as things have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1942.14,"endTime":1946.85,"body":"changed, that brought us to this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1946.85,"endTime":1947.48,"body":"place."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1949.49,"endTime":1955.52,"body":"Also recognising that death is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1949.49,"endTime":1955.52,"body":"natural part of our cycle of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1955.52,"endTime":1963.5,"body":"life. We celebrate birth. And we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1955.52,"endTime":1963.5,"body":"count and hide the death. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1963.5,"endTime":1968.6,"body":"that's just part of part of this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1963.5,"endTime":1968.6,"body":"whole cycle. I read something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1968.6,"endTime":1973.22,"body":"about I didn't realise that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1968.6,"endTime":1973.22,"body":"there was such things as death,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1973.22,"endTime":1980.09,"body":"doulas out there until long"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1973.22,"endTime":1980.09,"body":"after, and I had read something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1980.09,"endTime":1985.43,"body":"about a death, doulas comments"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1980.09,"endTime":1985.43,"body":"and thoughts around watching"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1985.43,"endTime":1990.86,"body":"death happen. And, and just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1985.43,"endTime":1990.86,"body":"staying in that moment of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1991.76,"endTime":1997.4,"body":"honouring that moment of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1991.76,"endTime":1997.4,"body":"last breath being taken and just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1998.21,"endTime":2002.05,"body":"being present with you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1998.21,"endTime":2002.05,"body":"that seeing the end of that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2002.05,"endTime":2005.89,"body":"cycle. And I just thought that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2002.05,"endTime":2005.89,"body":"was such a beautiful thing that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2006.01,"endTime":2012.19,"body":"she wrote about. Because, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2006.01,"endTime":2012.19,"body":"I think, society from a society"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2012.19,"endTime":2015.76,"body":"perspective, we don't want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2012.19,"endTime":2015.76,"body":"deal with that. We just want a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2015.76,"endTime":2020.26,"body":"happy ending, we want to go on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2015.76,"endTime":2020.26,"body":"top of that pretty blue box, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2020.26,"endTime":2025.57,"body":"know, it's just not the case."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2020.26,"endTime":2025.57,"body":"And life is life and death are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2025.57,"endTime":2029.68,"body":"part of the same cycle. And if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2025.57,"endTime":2029.68,"body":"we could learn how to honour it,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2029.71,"endTime":2035.17,"body":"then that would be a beautiful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2029.71,"endTime":2035.17,"body":"thing. And that's my goal. My"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2035.2,"endTime":2041.95,"body":"goal is to demystify death and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2035.2,"endTime":2041.95,"body":"grief. And as you as you've done"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2041.95,"endTime":2044.38,"body":"here, just create an opportunity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2041.95,"endTime":2044.38,"body":"for us to talk about it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2045.97,"endTime":2052.15,"body":"Yes, and to, to be able to talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2045.97,"endTime":2052.15,"body":"about it without coyness, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2052.15,"endTime":2057.55,"body":"know, without feeling as though"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2052.15,"endTime":2057.55,"body":"we can't say the words. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2057.55,"endTime":2061.54,"body":"I think, you know, one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2057.55,"endTime":2061.54,"body":"things that that often happens"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2061.54,"endTime":2067.24,"body":"when somebody suffers a loss is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2061.54,"endTime":2067.24,"body":"that we don't talk about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2067.24,"endTime":2071.11,"body":"person having died, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2067.24,"endTime":2071.11,"body":"use these euphemisms. I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2071.11,"endTime":2073.51,"body":"just use one then suffered a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2071.11,"endTime":2073.51,"body":"loss, you know, we use these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2073.51,"endTime":2078.64,"body":"euphemisms, rather than really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2073.51,"endTime":2078.64,"body":"turning towards what has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2078.64,"endTime":2081.79,"body":"happened. And, and obviously,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2078.64,"endTime":2081.79,"body":"the other thing that so often"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2081.79,"endTime":2083.95,"body":"happens is that people don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2081.79,"endTime":2083.95,"body":"talk about the person who's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2083.95,"endTime":2091.09,"body":"died. A because we're so again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2083.95,"endTime":2091.09,"body":"coming normally from a place of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2091.09,"endTime":2095.35,"body":"love, you know, not wanting to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2091.09,"endTime":2095.35,"body":"kind of open the wound or you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2095.35,"endTime":2099.64,"body":"know, sort of make someone feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2095.35,"endTime":2099.64,"body":"unhappy. Whereas actually, of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2099.64,"endTime":2107.89,"body":"course, Often the person who has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2099.64,"endTime":2107.89,"body":"lost somebody, not always, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2107.89,"endTime":2112.33,"body":"often actually welcomes the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2107.89,"endTime":2112.33,"body":"opportunity to talk about them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2112.84,"endTime":2115.72,"body":"And, and that kind of resonates"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2112.84,"endTime":2115.72,"body":"with something that you said"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2115.72,"endTime":2118.06,"body":"right at the beginning of our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2115.72,"endTime":2118.06,"body":"conversation. Actually, Kathy,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2118.06,"endTime":2122.02,"body":"when you were talking about that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2118.06,"endTime":2122.02,"body":"journaling gave you a mechanism"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2122.02,"endTime":2128.86,"body":"to still have conversations with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2122.02,"endTime":2128.86,"body":"the people who had passed. And,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2129.76,"endTime":2134.59,"body":"and that I feel, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2129.76,"endTime":2134.59,"body":"anything that that enables us to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2134.59,"endTime":2142.06,"body":"connect in a way that feels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2134.59,"endTime":2142.06,"body":"psychologically safe, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2142.39,"endTime":2150.07,"body":"supported for us can only be a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2142.39,"endTime":2150.07,"body":"good thing. So I'd love what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2150.07,"endTime":2155.08,"body":"what did your what kind of led"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2150.07,"endTime":2155.08,"body":"you to journaling in that way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2156.64,"endTime":2162.64,"body":"I always dabbled in writing here"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2156.64,"endTime":2162.64,"body":"and there. But never a never a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2162.64,"endTime":2171.34,"body":"specific practice. 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And specifically with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2202.84,"endTime":2208.66,"body":"my mom's loss, I was afraid that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2208.66,"endTime":2214.12,"body":"I was only going to remember the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2208.66,"endTime":2214.12,"body":"past year, the last year, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2214.12,"endTime":2218.32,"body":"was not the best year, there was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2214.12,"endTime":2218.32,"body":"so many more 50 something years"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2218.32,"endTime":2222.1,"body":"of fantastic memories that I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2218.32,"endTime":2222.1,"body":"not even dealing with because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2222.1,"endTime":2227.17,"body":"that last year was just so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2222.1,"endTime":2227.17,"body":"tough. So that's kind of what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2227.17,"endTime":2230.83,"body":"journaling allowed me to do is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2227.17,"endTime":2230.83,"body":"really allowed me to reflect and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2230.86,"endTime":2235.87,"body":"just feel, take a sense as to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2230.86,"endTime":2235.87,"body":"what my feelings were and why I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2235.87,"endTime":2241.15,"body":"was feeling the way I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2235.87,"endTime":2241.15,"body":"feeling and be able to recognise"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2241.15,"endTime":2245.26,"body":"the beauty and the gratitude and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2241.15,"endTime":2245.26,"body":"whatever was going on, but be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2245.26,"endTime":2249.28,"body":"able to recollect it to reflect"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2245.26,"endTime":2249.28,"body":"on some of the nicer memories."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2249.37,"endTime":2253.24,"body":"And little by little, those are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2249.37,"endTime":2253.24,"body":"what actually led to writing of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2253.24,"endTime":2255.97,"body":"the book, the book is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2253.24,"endTime":2255.97,"body":"collection of memories that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2255.97,"endTime":2261.46,"body":"remember from my childhood. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2255.97,"endTime":2261.46,"body":"I think that's the beauty of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2261.46,"endTime":2265.72,"body":"journaling is if we actually sit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2261.46,"endTime":2265.72,"body":"with it, and allow it to become"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2266.8,"endTime":2271.78,"body":"a companion, you know, a safe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2266.8,"endTime":2271.78,"body":"companion for our thoughts, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2272.5,"endTime":2276.85,"body":"you know, where we can, maybe we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2272.5,"endTime":2276.85,"body":"sound crazy as we're writing it,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2276.85,"endTime":2280.06,"body":"but that's okay, it's for us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2276.85,"endTime":2280.06,"body":"just to get it out of our heads."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2280.48,"endTime":2283.18,"body":"Because I do think that we tell"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2280.48,"endTime":2283.18,"body":"a lot, we make up a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2283.18,"endTime":2287.8,"body":"stories in our heads. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2283.18,"endTime":2287.8,"body":"sometimes that does lead to self"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2287.8,"endTime":2292.21,"body":"sabotage. So to be able to have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2287.8,"endTime":2292.21,"body":"a place that we can actually put"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2292.21,"endTime":2296.29,"body":"it out there is a powerful tool,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2292.21,"endTime":2296.29,"body":"it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2297.4,"endTime":2302.44,"body":"so powerful and just listening"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2297.4,"endTime":2302.44,"body":"to you I can feel as you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2302.44,"endTime":2310.21,"body":"talking the comfort that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2302.44,"endTime":2310.21,"body":"journaling brought you. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2310.21,"endTime":2316.99,"body":"also, I what I'm really loving"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2310.21,"endTime":2316.99,"body":"is this sense of kind of freedom"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2317.14,"endTime":2325.72,"body":"of what to write. So I, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2317.14,"endTime":2325.72,"body":"naturally have a resistance to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2325.72,"endTime":2332.26,"body":"anything that creates too tight"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2325.72,"endTime":2332.26,"body":"a container. So, with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2332.26,"endTime":2335.17,"body":"journaling, you know that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2332.26,"endTime":2335.17,"body":"allowing ourselves that freedom"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2335.17,"endTime":2341.29,"body":"of expression or the private"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2335.17,"endTime":2341.29,"body":"writings of the soul is is how I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2341.29,"endTime":2347.41,"body":"often feel with my own writing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2341.29,"endTime":2347.41,"body":"that and and I'll often have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2347.44,"endTime":2350.74,"body":"conversations with myself, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2347.44,"endTime":2350.74,"body":"know, I'll or I'll ask a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2350.74,"endTime":2354.43,"body":"question and and then I'll reply"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2350.74,"endTime":2354.43,"body":"and then I'll respond to that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2354.43,"endTime":2359.11,"body":"and because I'm you know, I am"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2354.43,"endTime":2359.11,"body":"multiple parts there are like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2359.11,"endTime":2361.78,"body":"all of us, you know, there are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2359.11,"endTime":2361.78,"body":"many different parts to me and,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2363.25,"endTime":2369.4,"body":"and even, you know, so allowing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2363.25,"endTime":2369.4,"body":"that kind of freedom to use it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2369.43,"endTime":2373.03,"body":"in whatever way feels most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2369.43,"endTime":2373.03,"body":"useful for us and kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2373.03,"endTime":2377.05,"body":"trusting that process. Again, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2373.03,"endTime":2377.05,"body":"suppose without the sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2377.05,"endTime":2380.32,"body":"judgement like, Am I doing it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2377.05,"endTime":2380.32,"body":"right? Do other people do this?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2380.89,"endTime":2384.4,"body":"Do I sound a bit crazy? That's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2380.89,"endTime":2384.4,"body":"okay."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2386.5,"endTime":2391.78,"body":"For me, when I get too"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2386.5,"endTime":2391.78,"body":"emotional, my voice doesn't come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2391.78,"endTime":2395.83,"body":"out. Like it kind of gets stuck"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2391.78,"endTime":2395.83,"body":"right here and I tried to say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2395.83,"endTime":2400.27,"body":"something but it doesn't make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2395.83,"endTime":2400.27,"body":"any sense and my voice It's all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2400.27,"endTime":2404.86,"body":"squeaky and breathy. And then I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2400.27,"endTime":2404.86,"body":"think I get frustrated because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2404.86,"endTime":2407.14,"body":"can't get the words out. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2404.86,"endTime":2407.14,"body":"thing that frustrates the other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2407.14,"endTime":2410.8,"body":"people that I'm trying to say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2407.14,"endTime":2410.8,"body":"something to so writing doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2410.8,"endTime":2416.65,"body":"have any writing is just, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2410.8,"endTime":2416.65,"body":"know, it's just, it just flows."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2417.43,"endTime":2420.85,"body":"And if we could just write and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2417.43,"endTime":2420.85,"body":"not worry about editing it and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2420.85,"endTime":2424.66,"body":"just get our free thoughts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2420.85,"endTime":2424.66,"body":"flowing is such a powerful tool."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2424.99,"endTime":2428.95,"body":"And for other for some art,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2424.99,"endTime":2428.95,"body":"maybe that. Yeah, right."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.7,"endTime":2435.22,"body":"painting or drawing maybe that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.7,"endTime":2435.22,"body":"But I think for me, and for you,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2435.25,"endTime":2439.12,"body":"we I think we've seen the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2435.25,"endTime":2439.12,"body":"powerful tool that journaling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2439.12,"endTime":2440.11,"body":"can be. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2441.46,"endTime":2447.04,"body":"John journaling definitely was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2441.46,"endTime":2447.04,"body":"one of the things that saved me."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2449.5,"endTime":2454.18,"body":"And, you know, unlike you that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2449.5,"endTime":2454.18,"body":"there had been a number of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2454.18,"endTime":2460.75,"body":"different griefs that had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2454.18,"endTime":2460.75,"body":"brought me to a place where I,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2461.38,"endTime":2466.15,"body":"for me, it, I didn't listen"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2461.38,"endTime":2466.15,"body":"early enough and ended up very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2466.15,"endTime":2473.62,"body":"ill. And still took a little bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2466.15,"endTime":2473.62,"body":"of time to like, really listen."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2475.15,"endTime":2479.26,"body":"But when I did journaling was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2475.15,"endTime":2479.26,"body":"something that just helped me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2479.29,"endTime":2487.57,"body":"kind of unravel or disentangle"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2479.29,"endTime":2487.57,"body":"the the messy complexity that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2487.57,"endTime":2494.92,"body":"was going on inside my head. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2487.57,"endTime":2494.92,"body":"remember, when I first kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2494.92,"endTime":2498.85,"body":"realised like what journaling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2494.92,"endTime":2498.85,"body":"was doing, because nobody really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2498.85,"endTime":2505.33,"body":"taught me how to do it, it just,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2498.85,"endTime":2505.33,"body":"it kind of came upon a style,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2506.38,"endTime":2509.41,"body":"which I call flow journaling,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2506.38,"endTime":2509.41,"body":"which sounds very similar to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2509.41,"endTime":2512.95,"body":"approach that you take. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2509.41,"endTime":2512.95,"body":"heard you use the word flow, how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2512.95,"endTime":2518.77,"body":"the words flow. But for me, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2512.95,"endTime":2518.77,"body":"often feels like Dumbledore in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2518.8,"endTime":2523.09,"body":"Harry Potter. There's a point"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2518.8,"endTime":2523.09,"body":"where he had this concieve, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2523.09,"endTime":2526.3,"body":"think, where he puts the wand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2523.09,"endTime":2526.3,"body":"against his head, and his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2526.3,"endTime":2531.37,"body":"thoughts just kind of get out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2526.3,"endTime":2531.37,"body":"into the pool. That for me is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2531.37,"endTime":2536.8,"body":"like, your pen is your wand, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2531.37,"endTime":2536.8,"body":"it's just in the journal is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2536.8,"endTime":2542.35,"body":"concieve. It just has space for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2536.8,"endTime":2542.35,"body":"all of it. Everything's welcome."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2543.85,"endTime":2544.45,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2545.56,"endTime":2550.33,"body":"That's a great. Yeah. I had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2545.56,"endTime":2550.33,"body":"forgotten about that. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2550.33,"endTime":2553.06,"body":"he does that and all the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2550.33,"endTime":2553.06,"body":"thoughts come flowing out."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2553.18,"endTime":2559.24,"body":"Yeah. And and that pool, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2553.18,"endTime":2559.24,"body":"it has room for it all. Because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2559.24,"endTime":2562.06,"body":"there's also sort of comes back"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2559.24,"endTime":2562.06,"body":"to that point, you were saying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2562.06,"endTime":2568.09,"body":"earlier about how we can judge"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2562.06,"endTime":2568.09,"body":"ourselves or judge others around"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2568.09,"endTime":2571.15,"body":"us who are having a shared"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2568.09,"endTime":2571.15,"body":"experience, but in their own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2571.15,"endTime":2578.17,"body":"way. It also it gives us a place"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2571.15,"endTime":2578.17,"body":"to voice what we're noticing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2578.68,"endTime":2583.9,"body":"without, even if we end up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2578.68,"endTime":2583.9,"body":"talking about it with somebody,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2583.9,"endTime":2587.74,"body":"it kind of gives us a place to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2583.9,"endTime":2587.74,"body":"make sense of what we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2587.74,"endTime":2592.24,"body":"experiencing. And maybe that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2587.74,"endTime":2592.24,"body":"enough. Or maybe from there, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2592.24,"endTime":2596.23,"body":"then have a useful conversation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2592.24,"endTime":2596.23,"body":"with someone or whatever it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2596.23,"endTime":2601.42,"body":"might be. But it's, it is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2596.23,"endTime":2601.42,"body":"great first point of call, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2601.42,"endTime":2602.74,"body":"think or port of call."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2604.33,"endTime":2607.42,"body":"I want to go back to something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2604.33,"endTime":2607.42,"body":"that you said Henny about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2607.45,"endTime":2612.79,"body":"people, not maybe not wanting to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2607.45,"endTime":2612.79,"body":"bring up the person who has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2612.79,"endTime":2618.16,"body":"died, you know, talk about them,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2612.79,"endTime":2618.16,"body":"I found it great comfort, to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2618.16,"endTime":2624.91,"body":"actually talk about my loved"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2618.16,"endTime":2624.91,"body":"ones. And I think similar to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2625.09,"endTime":2628.6,"body":"what I said about a journaling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2625.09,"endTime":2628.6,"body":"allows me to continue the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2628.6,"endTime":2633.07,"body":"conversation talking about them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2628.6,"endTime":2633.07,"body":"allowed me to just keep them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2633.07,"endTime":2638.26,"body":"alive, you know, and I had come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2633.07,"endTime":2638.26,"body":"across a quote, There was a king"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2638.26,"endTime":2643.09,"body":"Tut exhibit here in LA many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2638.26,"endTime":2643.09,"body":"years ago, and I walked in and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2643.09,"endTime":2646.42,"body":"there was this quote on the wall"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2643.09,"endTime":2646.42,"body":"from the Egyptian Book of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2646.42,"endTime":2650.32,"body":"Dead that said, you die twice,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2646.42,"endTime":2650.32,"body":"once you physically die, and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2650.32,"endTime":2653.44,"body":"second time when people don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2650.32,"endTime":2653.44,"body":"speak your name anymore. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2653.47,"endTime":2658.03,"body":"that really resonated with me."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2653.47,"endTime":2658.03,"body":"That's actually opening page of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2658.03,"endTime":2663.16,"body":"my book. Why don't we talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2658.03,"endTime":2663.16,"body":"those people that were so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2663.16,"endTime":2667.48,"body":"important and impactful in our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2663.16,"endTime":2667.48,"body":"lives? So I make that be a part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2667.48,"endTime":2673.96,"body":"of I talk about my loved ones I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2667.48,"endTime":2673.96,"body":"little pieces of clothing or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2673.96,"endTime":2676.75,"body":"jewellery that I still have I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2673.96,"endTime":2676.75,"body":"wear about they wear them all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2676.75,"endTime":2680.83,"body":"the time if somebody asks me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2676.75,"endTime":2680.83,"body":"such and such so pretty right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2680.83,"endTime":2684.1,"body":"away I go, Oh my God, this from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2680.83,"endTime":2684.1,"body":"my mother in law. I'm sorry, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2684.37,"endTime":2688.21,"body":"my stepmother. And this is what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2684.37,"endTime":2688.21,"body":"you know, this is how she used"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2688.21,"endTime":2691.75,"body":"to wear it or this is why was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2688.21,"endTime":2691.75,"body":"important to her. And I just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2691.75,"endTime":2696.91,"body":"think those stories, bring these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2691.75,"endTime":2696.91,"body":"lovely people back to life for a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2696.91,"endTime":2698.92,"body":"moment, but they come back."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2699.16,"endTime":2704.2,"body":"They do Oh, it's so beautiful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2699.16,"endTime":2704.2,"body":"because it's also as honouring,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2704.23,"endTime":2709.66,"body":"it's honouring them. And it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2704.23,"endTime":2709.66,"body":"honouring the experience that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2709.66,"endTime":2718.6,"body":"had in the way that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2709.66,"endTime":2718.6,"body":"experienced them. Yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2718.6,"endTime":2722.5,"body":"lived in Cairo for a little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2718.6,"endTime":2722.5,"body":"while, for a couple of years in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2722.5,"endTime":2727.87,"body":"my 20s. And there is the city of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2722.5,"endTime":2727.87,"body":"the dead, just outside Cairo. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2727.87,"endTime":2735.34,"body":"is gigantic, the most enormous"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2727.87,"endTime":2735.34,"body":"cemetery. And I think it's in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2735.34,"endTime":2738.91,"body":"Shannon esteem, but I might be,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2735.34,"endTime":2738.91,"body":"I might be wrong in terms of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2738.91,"endTime":2742.96,"body":"festival, but there's one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2738.91,"endTime":2742.96,"body":"festivals where families will go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2743.02,"endTime":2751.36,"body":"and picnic on the sort of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2743.02,"endTime":2751.36,"body":"graves, and there'll be, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2751.36,"endTime":2754.99,"body":"know, lots of laughter and food"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2751.36,"endTime":2754.99,"body":"and, you know, hanging out and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2754.99,"endTime":2758.32,"body":"the kids will be playing, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2754.99,"endTime":2758.32,"body":"it's this really joyful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2758.38,"endTime":2764.62,"body":"experience a bit like Dia de los"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2758.38,"endTime":2764.62,"body":"Muertos in on whiteness in South"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2764.62,"endTime":2768.43,"body":"America, you know, the Day of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2764.62,"endTime":2768.43,"body":"the Dead, this this idea that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2768.43,"endTime":2777.52,"body":"actually we remember with, with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2768.43,"endTime":2777.52,"body":"love. It's so interesting, isn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2777.52,"endTime":2784.06,"body":"it? How, how so much of that can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2777.52,"endTime":2784.06,"body":"get kind of repressed? Yes."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2784.51,"endTime":2791.71,"body":"Because we're not taught in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2784.51,"endTime":2791.71,"body":"maybe in some cultures. How how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2791.71,"endTime":2795.4,"body":"to grieve? Yeah, I mean, this,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2791.71,"endTime":2795.4,"body":"this really feels like the kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2795.4,"endTime":2798.97,"body":"of crux of what you're talking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2795.4,"endTime":2798.97,"body":"about actually is teaching us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2798.97,"endTime":2801.94,"body":"how to grieve or teaching"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2798.97,"endTime":2801.94,"body":"ourselves how to grieve?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2802.87,"endTime":2806.65,"body":"And how to honour right? It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2802.87,"endTime":2806.65,"body":"like they left a big impact on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2806.65,"endTime":2811.06,"body":"us, and how do we continue"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2806.65,"endTime":2811.06,"body":"honouring that. So a friend or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2811.06,"endTime":2814.39,"body":"an acquaintance, I can't even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2811.06,"endTime":2814.39,"body":"call her friends at the time."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2815.59,"endTime":2820.54,"body":"But this one person who had read"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2815.59,"endTime":2820.54,"body":"the book and had seen me had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2820.54,"endTime":2824.23,"body":"heard me talk about it. One day,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2820.54,"endTime":2824.23,"body":"just out of the blue, I reached"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2824.23,"endTime":2827.44,"body":"out and asked for my address,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2824.23,"endTime":2827.44,"body":"which is that when I send you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2827.44,"endTime":2832.93,"body":"something, so you know, I gave"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2827.44,"endTime":2832.93,"body":"it to her. And the next next"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2832.93,"endTime":2837.25,"body":"week, this big box comes with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2832.93,"endTime":2837.25,"body":"all the goodies that you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2837.25,"endTime":2842.62,"body":"create an altar for the dead."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2837.25,"endTime":2842.62,"body":"And I think it's one of the most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2842.62,"endTime":2846.13,"body":"precious gifts anyone has ever."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2842.62,"endTime":2846.13,"body":"I mean, it's the most thoughtful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2846.13,"endTime":2849.49,"body":"thing certainly that anyone has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2846.13,"endTime":2849.49,"body":"ever thought of, to do for me."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2849.49,"endTime":2854.41,"body":"So since then, I just took down"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2849.49,"endTime":2854.41,"body":"my altar, but it's been. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2854.41,"endTime":2858.01,"body":"twice, I've done it two years in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2854.41,"endTime":2858.01,"body":"a row now, where I set up my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2858.01,"endTime":2863.08,"body":"altar with pictures, and I serve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2858.01,"endTime":2863.08,"body":"tea in the morning or coffee in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2863.08,"endTime":2866.47,"body":"the morning to those who are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2863.08,"endTime":2866.47,"body":"coffee drinkers and wine in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2866.47,"endTime":2871.21,"body":"afternoon. It just it becomes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2866.47,"endTime":2871.21,"body":"for a week, this becomes you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2871.21,"endTime":2875.14,"body":"know, an opportunity just talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2871.21,"endTime":2875.14,"body":"to them, you know, just drink my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2875.14,"endTime":2880.06,"body":"tea, as you know, I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2875.14,"endTime":2880.06,"body":"it just it makes sense. To me."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2880.21,"endTime":2884.8,"body":"It may not make sense. But it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2880.21,"endTime":2884.8,"body":"makes sense to me to constantly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2886.57,"endTime":2890.35,"body":"just have this energy, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2886.57,"endTime":2890.35,"body":"feels like a positive energy for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2890.35,"endTime":2894.13,"body":"me to have up them around."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2890.35,"endTime":2894.13,"body":"Because I'm sure they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2897.46,"endTime":2903.07,"body":"a that's awesome. And what an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2897.46,"endTime":2903.07,"body":"incredible thing for someone to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2903.07,"endTime":2905.89,"body":"have done and also that you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2903.07,"endTime":2905.89,"body":"you're doing it and that you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2905.89,"endTime":2910.03,"body":"getting such joy from it. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2905.89,"endTime":2910.03,"body":"and you have sparked a thought"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2910.03,"endTime":2913.15,"body":"for me, and I'm sure for many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2910.03,"endTime":2913.15,"body":"people who are listening as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2913.15,"endTime":2920.32,"body":"well. And, and then there's also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2913.15,"endTime":2920.32,"body":"I just kind of, I heard not my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2920.32,"endTime":2925.18,"body":"voice not one of my many voices."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2920.32,"endTime":2925.18,"body":"But I was I heard a kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2925.18,"endTime":2930.4,"body":"voice that I think probably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2925.18,"endTime":2930.4,"body":"comes from my family's stories"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2930.97,"endTime":2937.57,"body":"of again, that kind of, um,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2930.97,"endTime":2937.57,"body":"almost like what do you want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2937.57,"endTime":2941.29,"body":"do that for? What do you want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2937.57,"endTime":2941.29,"body":"prolong on? Almost like by doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2941.29,"endTime":2945.85,"body":"that it must be prolonging"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2941.29,"endTime":2945.85,"body":"grief, it must be prolonging"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2945.88,"endTime":2952.12,"body":"pain. So there's something so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2945.88,"endTime":2952.12,"body":"powerful in listening to you and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2952.12,"endTime":2958.72,"body":"recognising that we can, gosh,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2952.12,"endTime":2958.72,"body":"this, this keeps coming up for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2958.72,"endTime":2961.81,"body":"me again and again. These last"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2958.72,"endTime":2961.81,"body":"few weeks. I'm not surprised"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2961.81,"endTime":2969.07,"body":"that you and I are talking now."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2961.81,"endTime":2969.07,"body":"How we can hold pain and grief"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2969.13,"endTime":2973.57,"body":"and pain and joy rather"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2969.13,"endTime":2973.57,"body":"simultaneously. We don't have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2973.57,"endTime":2982.12,"body":"one doesn't diminish or squash"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2973.57,"endTime":2982.12,"body":"the other. We can't force our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2982.12,"endTime":2986.44,"body":"way through pain with. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2982.12,"endTime":2986.44,"body":"this was definitely something I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2987.04,"endTime":2992.86,"body":"learned to do and have done for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2987.04,"endTime":2992.86,"body":"many years. I'm going to be so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2992.86,"endTime":2996.64,"body":"happy that nothing's ever going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2992.86,"endTime":2996.64,"body":"to get me down. You know this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2996.64,"endTime":3002.91,"body":"kind of I'm going to squash any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2996.64,"endTime":3002.91,"body":"pain With my joy, and equally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3002.91,"endTime":3008.79,"body":"this, I think, when we forget"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3002.91,"endTime":3008.79,"body":"that pain and joy can live side"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3008.79,"endTime":3013.77,"body":"by side, we can feel as though"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3008.79,"endTime":3013.77,"body":"if we let ourselves feel the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3013.77,"endTime":3017.49,"body":"pain or feel the grief, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3013.77,"endTime":3017.49,"body":"going to squash the joy. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3017.49,"endTime":3021.96,"body":"it's, it doesn't have to be that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3017.49,"endTime":3021.96,"body":"way, we can hold the two things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3021.96,"endTime":3023.73,"body":"tenderly, side by side."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3025.62,"endTime":3028.38,"body":"I'm actually reading a book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3025.62,"endTime":3028.38,"body":"right now I've just started,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3028.38,"endTime":3032.61,"body":"it's maybe page 30 or so of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3028.38,"endTime":3032.61,"body":"book. It's called bitter sweet."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3033.15,"endTime":3038.07,"body":"I don't know if you've heard of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3033.15,"endTime":3038.07,"body":"that. And it speaks very much to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3038.07,"endTime":3040.89,"body":"that it speaks about it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3038.07,"endTime":3040.89,"body":"especially talks about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3040.89,"endTime":3045.69,"body":"melancholy as a whole, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3040.89,"endTime":3045.69,"body":"sometimes music or arts and how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3045.69,"endTime":3051.99,"body":"they can move us into this place"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3045.69,"endTime":3051.99,"body":"of not sorrow, but that we feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3051.99,"endTime":3056.34,"body":"a longing. And I think with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3051.99,"endTime":3056.34,"body":"grief, there's definitely a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3056.34,"endTime":3059.97,"body":"longing, you know, we're longing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3056.34,"endTime":3059.97,"body":"for that person who's no longer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3059.97,"endTime":3064.02,"body":"or that thing that's no longer."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3059.97,"endTime":3064.02,"body":"But if we can find a mechanism"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3064.05,"endTime":3069.15,"body":"of finding that joy within it,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3064.05,"endTime":3069.15,"body":"or celebrate it, or honour it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3069.18,"endTime":3074.25,"body":"somehow. At least, that's how I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3069.18,"endTime":3074.25,"body":"found that. It is bittersweet."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3074.43,"endTime":3078.96,"body":"But the two, the joy and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3074.43,"endTime":3078.96,"body":"sadness do sit next to each"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3078.96,"endTime":3082.8,"body":"other. Sometimes that cup spills"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3078.96,"endTime":3082.8,"body":"over into the other."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3083.58,"endTime":3092.28,"body":"And that it's okay. Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3083.58,"endTime":3092.28,"body":"there's times where? Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3092.28,"endTime":3095.76,"body":"mean, even even now, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3092.28,"endTime":3095.76,"body":"several years on from my mother"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3095.79,"endTime":3098.37,"body":"going, you know, there'll be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3095.79,"endTime":3098.37,"body":"times where I'll suddenly I'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3098.37,"endTime":3102.33,"body":"be thinking of her, and I'll get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3098.37,"endTime":3102.33,"body":"this like, like, like a racking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3102.36,"endTime":3106.71,"body":"sob, maybe even without tears,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3102.36,"endTime":3106.71,"body":"but just this, like, Oh, God,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3106.71,"endTime":3116.04,"body":"the pain of that. And I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3106.71,"endTime":3116.04,"body":"learned to allow it. Before I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3116.04,"endTime":3125.67,"body":"would have tried to shove it out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3116.04,"endTime":3125.67,"body":"of the way. Just to wave and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3125.67,"endTime":3130.17,"body":"like, yeah, ride it, allow"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3125.67,"endTime":3130.17,"body":"ourselves to ride that, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3130.17,"endTime":3135.0,"body":"wave of emotion. Because some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3130.17,"endTime":3135.0,"body":"something something is trying to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3135.0,"endTime":3140.25,"body":"be heard, felt, add whatever it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3135.0,"endTime":3140.25,"body":"might be?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3141.42,"endTime":3144.72,"body":"Well, we have to allow it to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3141.42,"endTime":3144.72,"body":"move, right otherwise."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3146.31,"endTime":3152.55,"body":"Otherwise, I think that's where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3146.31,"endTime":3152.55,"body":"maybe illness comes from, or it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3152.55,"endTime":3156.0,"body":"gets stuck. And that's, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3152.55,"endTime":3156.0,"body":"doesn't do any of us any good."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3156.06,"endTime":3159.21,"body":"So and I think that's why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3156.06,"endTime":3159.21,"body":"journaling is so powerful,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3159.21,"endTime":3166.23,"body":"because it allows the feelings"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3159.21,"endTime":3166.23,"body":"to be shared and moved. And even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3166.23,"endTime":3168.96,"body":"if nobody else sees that it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3166.23,"endTime":3168.96,"body":"at least it's out of our heads."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3170.04,"endTime":3172.5,"body":"Yeah, it's interesting, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3170.04,"endTime":3172.5,"body":"I was sort of thinking when we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3172.5,"endTime":3177.9,"body":"were talking earlier that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3172.5,"endTime":3177.9,"body":"know, this for for some people,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3177.9,"endTime":3181.14,"body":"it's, it's doing something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3177.9,"endTime":3181.14,"body":"creative in some way, like, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3181.14,"endTime":3185.88,"body":"know, mark making or drawing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3181.14,"endTime":3185.88,"body":"you know, and for others, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3185.88,"endTime":3188.61,"body":"might be movement, but actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3185.88,"endTime":3188.61,"body":"just listening to you they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3188.61,"endTime":3193.98,"body":"really journaling is a somatic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3188.61,"endTime":3193.98,"body":"activity. It is it is our whole"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3194.07,"endTime":3201.87,"body":"body, isn't it, we can shift"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3194.07,"endTime":3201.87,"body":"stuff. Even sitting and writing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3201.87,"endTime":3213.69,"body":"is intensely powerful process"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3201.87,"endTime":3213.69,"body":"when we just release, whatever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3213.69,"endTime":3215.22,"body":"wants to be written."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3216.45,"endTime":3219.75,"body":"What's your journaling practice,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3216.45,"endTime":3219.75,"body":"and you do it in the morning,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3219.75,"endTime":3222.54,"body":"you do it in the evening, daily,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3223.29,"endTime":3226.95,"body":"tend to journal in the morning,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3223.29,"endTime":3226.95,"body":"I think. And over the years,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3226.95,"endTime":3235.95,"body":"I've done it in different ways."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3226.95,"endTime":3235.95,"body":"But I found my, my kind of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3235.95,"endTime":3243.66,"body":"most flow process is I'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3235.95,"endTime":3243.66,"body":"meditate before my brain has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3243.81,"endTime":3251.04,"body":"switched on fully. And, and then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3243.81,"endTime":3251.04,"body":"and then I'll journal so I kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3251.04,"endTime":3254.04,"body":"of meditate on my cushion. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3251.04,"endTime":3254.04,"body":"then I'll move to a really comfy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3254.04,"endTime":3259.35,"body":"spot with a blanket around me."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3254.04,"endTime":3259.35,"body":"And then I'll journal but I will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3259.35,"endTime":3265.23,"body":"also an eye flow journal. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3259.35,"endTime":3265.23,"body":"it's a it's the only it's my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3265.26,"endTime":3269.1,"body":"sort of way of describing I just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3265.26,"endTime":3269.1,"body":"write I don't have paragraphs."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3269.58,"endTime":3274.14,"body":"Quite often it will be one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3269.58,"endTime":3274.14,"body":"sentence as well and it's just a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3274.14,"endTime":3281.64,"body":"stream of consciousness. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3274.14,"endTime":3281.64,"body":"will also if a particular thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3281.64,"endTime":3287.91,"body":"happens, so if something happens"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3281.64,"endTime":3287.91,"body":"between me and my husband or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3289.02,"endTime":3292.71,"body":"something, it feels like it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3289.02,"endTime":3292.71,"body":"really getting in my way maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3292.71,"endTime":3301.92,"body":"with my work in some way. I will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3292.71,"endTime":3301.92,"body":"I will journal about it. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3301.92,"endTime":3307.41,"body":"will journal very consciously in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3301.92,"endTime":3307.41,"body":"a, again in that sort of flow"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3307.41,"endTime":3310.86,"body":"journaling way. So I'm not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3307.41,"endTime":3310.86,"body":"trying to resolve the problem."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3311.49,"endTime":3318.75,"body":"It's more, this is here. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3311.49,"endTime":3318.75,"body":"then seeing what, what comes up."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3319.86,"endTime":3324.21,"body":"And what always astonishes me is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3319.86,"endTime":3324.21,"body":"how something generally does."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3324.24,"endTime":3326.07,"body":"And if it doesn't, I still feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3324.24,"endTime":3326.07,"body":"better."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3327.54,"endTime":3331.59,"body":"Yeah. I love that you said that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3327.54,"endTime":3331.59,"body":"because sometimes things just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3331.59,"endTime":3335.82,"body":"don't have resolution. Grief is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3331.59,"endTime":3335.82,"body":"one of those things, like we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3335.82,"endTime":3342.39,"body":"make the person come back, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3335.82,"endTime":3342.39,"body":"know. So there is no writing to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3342.39,"endTime":3349.77,"body":"solve it is just writing to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3342.39,"endTime":3349.77,"body":"allow the emotions to, to get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3349.77,"endTime":3354.9,"body":"out of our heads and flow. Flow"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3349.77,"endTime":3354.9,"body":"journaling,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3355.32,"endTime":3361.14,"body":"there's a Tara Brack expression"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3355.32,"endTime":3361.14,"body":"that that she uses quite often,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3361.14,"endTime":3368.37,"body":"which is just this, too. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3361.14,"endTime":3368.37,"body":"I'll quite often use it when I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3368.52,"endTime":3372.0,"body":"meditating, if I find that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3368.52,"endTime":3372.0,"body":"there's a bit of rumination"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3372.0,"endTime":3375.18,"body":"going on or something keeps"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3372.0,"endTime":3375.18,"body":"popping up is just the very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3375.24,"endTime":3379.95,"body":"gentle reminder this to this to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3375.24,"endTime":3379.95,"body":"as welcome. And in the same way,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3379.95,"endTime":3385.17,"body":"I think with journaling is just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3379.95,"endTime":3385.17,"body":"this to this emotion that has a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3385.17,"endTime":3399.51,"body":"place so gosh, I this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3385.17,"endTime":3399.51,"body":"conversation feels feel so rich,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3399.51,"endTime":3403.56,"body":"and I feel like we could there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3399.51,"endTime":3403.56,"body":"a hot there's like this, this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3403.56,"endTime":3406.68,"body":"other layer kind of sitting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3403.56,"endTime":3406.68,"body":"underneath here, Kathy, maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3406.71,"endTime":3411.39,"body":"maybe we have another"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3406.71,"endTime":3411.39,"body":"conversation another day and go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3411.66,"endTime":3419.88,"body":"even deeper. Yeah, I really?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3411.66,"endTime":3419.88,"body":"Yeah. It's just wonderful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3419.91,"endTime":3431.52,"body":"talking with you. And a question"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3419.91,"endTime":3431.52,"body":"that I often ask my guests is,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3432.99,"endTime":3441.66,"body":"if you saw this time in your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3432.99,"endTime":3441.66,"body":"life, as a chapter in the book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3441.66,"endTime":3444.48,"body":"of your life, it feels very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3441.66,"endTime":3444.48,"body":"resonant considering what you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3445.26,"endTime":3448.11,"body":"are offering into the world. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3445.26,"endTime":3448.11,"body":"if you saw this time in your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3448.11,"endTime":3451.26,"body":"life as a chapter in your book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3448.11,"endTime":3451.26,"body":"of life, what would the chapter"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3451.26,"endTime":3452.43,"body":"heading be?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3454.47,"endTime":3459.75,"body":"Transformation. That's where the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3454.47,"endTime":3459.75,"body":"butterfly theme comes from. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3459.75,"endTime":3464.97,"body":"I actually call it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3459.75,"endTime":3464.97,"body":"transformation. But really is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3465.51,"endTime":3470.49,"body":"just kind of really having to go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3465.51,"endTime":3470.49,"body":"in to that dark place of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3470.49,"endTime":3474.03,"body":"chrysalis, if you will, and come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3470.49,"endTime":3474.03,"body":"out on the other side of it a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3474.03,"endTime":3481.59,"body":"butterfly. So that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3474.03,"endTime":3481.59,"body":"been I'm not quite sure if I'm a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3481.59,"endTime":3486.33,"body":"butterfly yet, but this is, this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3481.59,"endTime":3486.33,"body":"is what I call the butterfly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3486.33,"endTime":3489.69,"body":"years. Kind of going through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3486.33,"endTime":3489.69,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3490.68,"endTime":3496.56,"body":"No transformation. Will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3490.68,"endTime":3496.56,"body":"transformation. Yeah. And I love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3496.56,"endTime":3502.14,"body":"your observation that I'm not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3496.56,"endTime":3502.14,"body":"sure I'd call myself a butterfly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3502.14,"endTime":3506.04,"body":"yet because it's also speaks to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3502.14,"endTime":3506.04,"body":"the, you know, that this is an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3506.1,"endTime":3514.62,"body":"ongoing process, isn't it that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3506.1,"endTime":3514.62,"body":"we we are all kind of endlessly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3514.68,"endTime":3528.72,"body":"forming and growing. And and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3514.68,"endTime":3528.72,"body":"also speaks to the wisdom that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3528.72,"endTime":3536.01,"body":"know is is in your two books,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3528.72,"endTime":3536.01,"body":"and that it's not have the very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3536.01,"endTime":3540.57,"body":"strong sense. It's not a downer,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3536.01,"endTime":3540.57,"body":"like here's the answer. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3541.17,"endTime":3547.86,"body":"here is a story. Here is a way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3541.17,"endTime":3547.86,"body":"an invitation to explore your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3547.86,"endTime":3554.82,"body":"own story and find your own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3547.86,"endTime":3554.82,"body":"journey. And that that feels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3554.82,"endTime":3557.34,"body":"like a really beautiful thing to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3554.82,"endTime":3557.34,"body":"have created for people."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3561.15,"endTime":3565.05,"body":"I hope so I hope that it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3561.15,"endTime":3565.05,"body":"supportive of what others are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3565.05,"endTime":3568.32,"body":"going through and that offers a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3565.05,"endTime":3568.32,"body":"glimmer of hope."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3570.96,"endTime":3575.01,"body":"I will always say that again."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3577.98,"endTime":3579.15,"body":"So we can do this."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3581.25,"endTime":3585.6,"body":"So we can do and and love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3581.25,"endTime":3585.6,"body":"ourselves"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3586.65,"endTime":3589.17,"body":"through it. Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3586.65,"endTime":3589.17,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3589.89,"endTime":3595.08,"body":"I will share with people in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3589.89,"endTime":3595.08,"body":"notes about how they can get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3595.08,"endTime":3601.44,"body":"hold of your books, but what you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3595.08,"endTime":3601.44,"body":"What's the what's the easiest"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3601.44,"endTime":3605.16,"body":"route for them to? To find you?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3607.049,"endTime":3611.759,"body":"So butterfly yours is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3607.049,"endTime":3611.759,"body":"website,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3612.45,"endTime":3618.33,"body":"I'll share all of that so that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3612.45,"endTime":3618.33,"body":"people can, can connect. And and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3618.33,"endTime":3627.42,"body":"I know that within within my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3618.33,"endTime":3627.42,"body":"sort of community there are a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3627.42,"endTime":3630.12,"body":"number of people who are really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3627.42,"endTime":3630.12,"body":"who really love the whole"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3630.12,"endTime":3634.2,"body":"process of journaling. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3630.12,"endTime":3634.2,"body":"sure there's, there's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3634.2,"endTime":3641.37,"body":"connection there. Okay, Kathy,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3634.2,"endTime":3641.37,"body":"is there, what would be one? One"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3641.37,"endTime":3645.69,"body":"last thoughts that you would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3641.37,"endTime":3645.69,"body":"share with everyone listening?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3645.69,"endTime":3647.04,"body":"Is there one last thing?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3651.3,"endTime":3656.88,"body":"Yes. So I think the most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3651.3,"endTime":3656.88,"body":"powerful thing that I've learned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3657.69,"endTime":3663.45,"body":"is to just keep the judgement at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3657.69,"endTime":3663.45,"body":"bay, not allow that to come into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3663.69,"endTime":3667.68,"body":"into your head. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3663.69,"endTime":3667.68,"body":"supports everything that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3667.68,"endTime":3670.44,"body":"talked about, just love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3667.68,"endTime":3670.44,"body":"yourself. Because if we could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3670.62,"endTime":3673.92,"body":"put judgement aside and we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3670.62,"endTime":3673.92,"body":"wouldn't be able to love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3673.92,"endTime":3678.27,"body":"ourselves and that's the most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3673.92,"endTime":3678.27,"body":"important thing it's just the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3678.27,"endTime":3681.66,"body":"one of us so you have to take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3678.27,"endTime":3681.66,"body":"care of it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3682.62,"endTime":3688.89,"body":"Yeah. And and I think even as I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3682.62,"endTime":3688.89,"body":"as I hear that from you as well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3688.92,"endTime":3693.57,"body":"there's there's something about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3688.92,"endTime":3693.57,"body":"even extending our love to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3693.57,"endTime":3701.67,"body":"part that wants to judge us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3693.57,"endTime":3701.67,"body":"extending our love Yeah, this to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3701.7,"endTime":3709.5,"body":"this to all right. Thank you so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3701.7,"endTime":3709.5,"body":"much for joining and thanks for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3709.5,"endTime":3710.88,"body":"sharing this before."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3711.18,"endTime":3714.57,"body":"I thank you for this opportunity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3711.18,"endTime":3714.57,"body":"to say thank you to you for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3714.57,"endTime":3718.02,"body":"creating the space to be able to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3714.57,"endTime":3718.02,"body":"talk about these important"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3718.02,"endTime":3726.6,"body":"things. And if I do two L's I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3718.02,"endTime":3726.6,"body":"will absolutely put you up for a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3726.6,"endTime":3727.17,"body":"cup of tea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3729.33,"endTime":3734.82,"body":"and a bit of TheraBreath. Thank"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3729.33,"endTime":3734.82,"body":"you"}]}