Something Shiny: ADHD Why “Good Change” Still Feels Overwhelming When You Have ADHD Drop Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2026 *this episode transcription was auto-generated and might contain errors -------- ISABELLE RICHARDS: [00:00:00] Hello. I'm Isabelle. She, her, hers, DAVID KESSLER: and I'm David. He, him, his, ISABELLE RICHARDS: and we're two therapists with A DHD, who sit down to have some chats about A DHD. We can promise we'll stay on topic or be professional or even remotely mature, but we can promise that you'll end up looking at you or your loved one's, beautiful neurodivergent brain in a shiny new way. ISABELLE RICHARDS: This is not a therapy session. This is something shiny. DAVID KESSLER: I love it. Can this just be the intro you saying that and me freaking out about how amazing it is? ISABELLE RICHARDS: So without further ado, welcome to something shiny. DAVID KESSLER: Oh, well here we are. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Here we are. I am just reporting to you, David, that um, I, so we just moved, uh, physically, um, we're still in Nashville, but we successfully moved just a few houses away from our original house, which is [00:01:00] like both a dream, right? 'cause we adore, um. Our neighborhood. It's a, it's been a dream for years. ISABELLE RICHARDS: This is like total magic. Could not be happier with the, with the house. And the kids are over the moon. Bobby's over the moon. I'm over the moon. Our dog doesn't know what to do 'cause she, the size of her yard grew and she's like, I don't know. And a side note where we moved, the previous owners had a 500 pound Vietnamese potbelly pig named William. ISABELLE RICHARDS: So we would come and visit the yard. I love this And feed William Acorns all the time. So like, he's kind of like a neighborhood celebrity. I, we have like an adorable little house that was used as the pig's house with like a little heater in it, in the yard. Um, but anyway, so lots of charm. It is the dream. ISABELLE RICHARDS: We adore it. And as I was saying to David, I, I on on my best day. Pull it off all the time. Sometimes very last minute, but I [00:02:00] managed to pack up most of our stuff, not to give Bobby. Not to knock him, right? Because during the pandemic when we moved, he actually took care of all the packing and moving. And so maybe this was like my turn. ISABELLE RICHARDS: He had a gig, um, out of town, which he had my blessing of course, for, not that he needed it, but like, yes, no, this is helping us with the move and everything. But point is, is like the kids were on break. I don't know why I thought this was a good plan. Uh, the kids were on break, so they were home. Our amazing nanny, who I adore more than anything, um, is also just got married. ISABELLE RICHARDS: So she had a big wedding that I, so we were all so excited. DAVID KESSLER: She's amazing, by the way. Congratulations to her. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes, I know. Yeah. Her and her, um, I would argue neuro spicy, new bow new husband are just, I love it so much. Um, the point is, is like a lot was happening all at the same time. And we're now a couple weeks out and I genuinely, my, my [00:03:00] autism is so mad and my A DHD is like so bored and angry all the time. DAVID KESSLER: I can't even imagine. It's so hard. I think everyone, like everyone knows moving and sailing a home is like one of the most stressful things you can do. It's like listed on several lists as in the top five or top 10 most stressful things you can do. Yeah. Both the active buying and the act of selling. So like they're both on there. DAVID KESSLER: Right. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah, DAVID KESSLER: but I think in on the neuros spicy level, I think it hits so different, right? For me, there's this, there's this moment where like you lose all of your routines. Yes, they're all gone. All of the environmental places where, you know, where you go for comfort, where you go for soothing, where you go for it to wake up or part of your routines, they're all gone. DAVID KESSLER: Mm-hmm. And, and the wonderful thing is you can find them now and create new habits and new patterns and all that kind of stuff. And the terrible thing is you don't have any structure to do that. And so it's like this incredible dialectical experience, I think for lots of narrow, spicy people, myself included by the way, where like you, you're, you're met with this wonderful opportunity [00:04:00] when you first move to any new place. DAVID KESSLER: You can start patterns and habits, you can make all those healthy habits you want. And they're locked in after a little bit of time, but it's so hard. And so I think before we started recording, I was just like, Isabel, I'm so sorry and uh, congratulations because like it's such a crazy dialectical experience to move. DAVID KESSLER: It's so hard. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh my gosh. And I love how you phrased it. I think one of those things you said that I'm holding onto is, oh, congratulations. And I'm sorry you lost everything. DAVID KESSLER: Everything. ISABELLE RICHARDS: I was like, that is actually how it feels. Right? Because like, again, object permanence, like when things are in boxes or they aren't where they used to be, they effectively have disappeared. ISABELLE RICHARDS: They have effectively ceased to exist. Um, and so. Even if you're moving a few houses, you still have to make everything disappear and then reappear. Like what? It's not logical either. DAVID KESSLER: No, and, and like I'd love to believe that we're all like these like wonderful creatures [00:05:00] that do all these unique things all the time. DAVID KESSLER: Right. But like for me. When I wake up, my next like 15 minutes are incredibly predictable, right? Like what I do next, where I go, what I stand, what buttons I push, where I absently stare out of a window or become like, you know, all of that stuff when I first wake up. It's, it's, it's routine. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah. DAVID KESSLER: It's environmentally locked. DAVID KESSLER: I go to certain places in my, you know, in my house. And when you wake up in a new place or you wake up in a hotel, you're like, what do I do? Where am I? And so yeah, it's, so, it's this moment where, by the way, your background looks gorgeous. I love the built-ins all around me. They're just so cool. Right? DAVID KESSLER: They're so ISABELLE RICHARDS: cool. I mean, there's actual built-ins, everyone, like, I mean, David, you've also been in our previous home, so just trust. It's a, it's a major upgrade on every level in the coolest sense and so, so grateful. And you're not wrong. Like I look at my background and I don't know where I am. I'm so disoriented and I have been here now for a couple weeks. ISABELLE RICHARDS: I've sat in this exact spot for a couple weeks and yet you're So like when you say [00:06:00] the thing about like the spot, you stare out aimlessly, like it's so subtle. It's like where I reach to plug in my phone. At night to charge. It's, and it's like that multiplied across every single physical action. It is so obvious too, with the kids, 'cause like, you know, they're going, where is it, where is this, where is this? ISABELLE RICHARDS: When we first moved, they, they would go in the wrong direction to go to the bathroom. I mean, they'd just like, turn the corner and go the opposite way. And then they'd land in like a living room and be, were so disoriented. And my sweet nug, my youngest was like crying like, where'd you go? We're like, just turn around. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Turn the other direction, literally rotate 180 degrees. And yet I understand. You know, like I, I guess, I guess the thing that is so striking to me is like part of me, and maybe it's the autism part, or maybe it's just me, I get very like. Methodical and I cre like I, I become very rigid and I set all [00:07:00] these very, very extremely high expectations for unpacking. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yep. And finding order because I feel so distressed, right? Like the idea that I have no place to go, that I can't look and just see clutter and chaos is like. There's tears in my eyes as I say this. I don't know how to explain it, except I guess I get very anxious or something. I don't know. I just, I don't like it. ISABELLE RICHARDS: It makes me so unhappy. DAVID KESSLER: It doesn't feel good to find homes for everything again. ISABELLE RICHARDS: No, it does. I hate DAVID KESSLER: it. It's so ISABELLE RICHARDS: hard. I, I have to make so many decisions like unpacking, like the kitchen utensils and like, do they go in this shelf or this shelf or, or not shelf drawer. I always mix this up. And then now that I've done it, I'm like, oh, now's a good time to move it. ISABELLE RICHARDS: If I change my mind, should I move it? But is it logical to put it here? I'm so exhausted. My A DH. D is so, like all of me is so tired, David. And then, oh, sorry. Go ahead. DAVID KESSLER: Oh, no. I wanna pour it on because if you're the person putting everything away, then you're the only person that knows where everything is. DAVID KESSLER: And so then you have to like, not only [00:08:00] make these decisions, but you have to be there to answer everyone's questions. And if you're not there, things get reorganized or spilled out. It's so. Difficult. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Okay. The thing you just said, I know this has come up with like three different clients this week and I, I don't know why I didn't clock this, but you are correct. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like my, the reason I need to pack myself for a trip or I need to be the one that unpacks things is because. If I don't, I don't know where it is. DAVID KESSLER: Externalized memory. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. Yes. I need like the actual experiential, like tactile, concrete anesthetic. Like, 'cause my, my memory, like someone saying to me, oh, the dishes are above the counter on the left, or something that takes so much computing in my brain. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like I can't even like totally picture it always. Like I rely so heavily on that implicit procedural, like reach in this direction, memory. Most of my family does that too, and then they dunno where anything is, even though, and it drives [00:09:00] me up the wall because it's like, no. Now that we're here, the socks haven't moved. ISABELLE RICHARDS: We haven't actually moved the socks, but it just takes so much longer than you think. I just argue it takes three times longer with a DHD to get adjusted to a new physical orientation. DAVID KESSLER: I, I'll, I'll go, I'll lean into something I was talking about with Sarah. You know, Sarah's been bringing up for a while, is, you know, she was questioning does does change, create neurological pain. DAVID KESSLER: Does is our brain interpret change as pain. And I was like, huh. And I've been like looking into this like softly for a while and long and short, yes. Our brain enjoys predictability. It really likes knowing what's gonna happen next. And so like, change depending on like, not any change, but like depending on the change, it's actually experienced as painful. DAVID KESSLER: Like, not, not like you're on the floor crying because of your, your knees hurt, but this is where. You, the face you're making and the way you're expressing these feelings. It's like it's pain. And I think the more [00:10:00] changes and the more we experience change over and over again, we can like experience, I'd say some res resiliency to it. DAVID KESSLER: Like we, we become a little bit more resilient to change, but I'd say on a neuro spicy level, like we get hit with certain change really differently. And it doesn't just habituate and like you have to mourn because like you're, you're mourning what you just lost and you have to create a new pattern and then all of a sudden one day you're not mourning things anymore. DAVID KESSLER: It's so strange. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah. You're so right. That moment where it's like suddenly it feels like, oh yes, we've always been here. Or this, of course this is where it is. This is like where it lives. Now, in my head, can I also offer, okay, and this is a piece that I am gonna fess up to because Okay, from one, it feels like I am doing the thing I do. ISABELLE RICHARDS: When I have an appointment midday, and I haven't really figured out like a low lift or like anything else to do beforehand where I just like stall out. I've noticed that with the level of overwhelm, like the level of like, like where to start even with like a box or a thing, [00:11:00] right? So like I've just put it, I've been putting on decluttering videos nonstop because it's like. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Fake body dumpling where I just like listen to someone who's really, they're all Minnesotan for some reason. By the way, cast from Clutter Bug. I'll put all the links in the shows of all my new favorite, um, companions as I I'm back. Um, they're all, they elevate HD, by the way. Um, they're all these like Minnesotan and Canadian folks who are making content about decluttering and like, I watch them. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Do they literally call it body doubling like they do. Like footage of them tidying a room or unpacking somebody, and then I watch it, and then I immediately look at a box and go, oh, yes, now I remember the actions I must take. It's almost like I, like, I'm a buffering, I'm just permanently buffering. Does this happen when we're like overloaded in general, and this is just how it shows up, is I just circle the house with no aim. ISABELLE RICHARDS: No aim whatsoever. DAVID KESSLER: Yes. And I'd say it's probably really easy to be overwhelmed if you don't have a clear starting place and like know what to [00:12:00] do. I think there's a big drifting piece to like unpacking, it's like this box, oh my God, I don't wanna unpack this box, pushed to the side of this box. Cool. And then you just start working through it. DAVID KESSLER: Right. And I think that there's a certain amount of like. You only need to think about the box for a second. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes. DAVID KESSLER: Then you just have to follow your own ideas. So it's like, it's, it's kind of boring. And for me, I, I have a hard time unpacking unless, unless I'm like listening to some serious music, like serious music. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Okay. Alright. I get that like, like almost like, like a. Well, not to say it's the same, but almost like, like a workout, you know, like is it like beats per minute? Like DAVID KESSLER: Oh ISABELLE RICHARDS: yeah, DAVID KESSLER: yes. I go straight trap house, super DJ stuff, like gimme those big beats and like fast paced stuff where I'd normally be dancing, but now me moving and rushing places makes more sense. DAVID KESSLER: I'll start dancing my way to different places and I can make it about what my playlist is like versus like, and then I only work until my playlist ends and then I decide if I want another playlist. Oh. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh my gosh. I like that idea. DAVID KESSLER: Yeah, it's just it because it's so, there's no end. It's like [00:13:00] you're looking at this like, and like forever long highway view and you're like, I have to walk to the end. DAVID KESSLER: And it's like, I can't do that. I can be like, like dance until this song ends and then I'm gonna rest and I'll dance forward. Right. And then one day the road will be over. But I can't look at that horizon or I, I get a little stir crazy. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh my gosh. That is exactly, and I side note, as I'm sitting here, I almost wanna take like a tarp or like a carpet or an old rug or blanket and just throw it over boxes. ISABELLE RICHARDS: So like even just visually, they become one item. For a hot minute. So I'm not, 'cause like, I think part of what's happening too is visually I kind of like things and I know people have different styles, but I really like to have, I don't need things put away in one specific spot. I can have things like in a drawer or in a bin or something, but I cannot. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Stare at a, like a clear bin like that overloads me. It's like too many items in the bin. I need that bin to become one item visually. So like a piece of what you're saying too is like the drift, it's like I also just want everything I'm not looking at to disappear [00:14:00] 'cause it's too much. DAVID KESSLER: No, no, you're totally, this is so interesting and I wonder if this, is that like autism, A DHD difference or just like a neuro spicy difference? DAVID KESSLER: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. When I see the pile of boxes, it turns into amorphous one thing, and, and then I can forget that it's in the corner. Oh, I, I, I can literally like, and someone's like, I'll be like, I unpacked my whole house. So like, what about that corner? I'll like, oh, oh, you mean the one with a pile of boxes? DAVID KESSLER: I totally forgot that existed. Okay. I got my whole house, but that corner. Oh. So I forget about things. Like that's the object. Permanence. I'll forget about things. Like when I code them and they're there, they're there and I just move on. Like, no problem. Oh my gosh. Yes. And now I'm thinking something that, that Robin and I did that I think would. DAVID KESSLER: Oh, it's such a good idea by Robin, by the way. Mm-hmm. We, we replaced all of our drawers with these cubbies that you can see through, like, they're just open squares so I can, my, you know, my clothes are in those open squares and there's some bins for things like, you know, socks or whatnot. But now I don't lose things. DAVID KESSLER: I can look at the outside of my, my dresser and see the kinds of clothes that I have in the drawers. I don't have to open the [00:15:00] drawers. And so for me. That's so comforting 'cause I just know where stuff is for you. That would be very frustrating because you'd see the insides of all the drawers. It'd be like clear drawers. DAVID KESSLER: Yes. It's like our neural spicy needs are very different there, but like they're our own needs and like they're both real. ISABELLE RICHARDS: They're both real. Absolutely. Which side note, Cass from Clutter Bug. I wanna give her a shout out and credit and side note. I'd love to talk to her. I wanna invite her out on the podcast 'cause she's incredible. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Um. And just bug her 'cause she's the coolest. But the, the thing she talks about is like, yes, like picture, like on a spectrum of humans, and arguably neuro spice is high among these, right? Like over here on one end you've got like someone who needs something visual and very specifically, almost like, you know, if you've ever been in like a. ISABELLE RICHARDS: A car mechanic and they have like tools and then they have like outlines of where the tools go. DAVID KESSLER: Mm-hmm. ISABELLE RICHARDS: You know, like each wrench has a specific place and like that's, you need to see everything and you need to see everything exactly in one spot. Then you have [00:16:00] people who it's like you need to see everything, but you need to see it in a general direction, like what you're describing. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Then you have people who need everything in a gender direction, but hidden. You need to roughly remember, okay, it lives here, but once I open this drawer, that's, it's like better for me to not have so much out all the time. Like it's quieter in my mind, if that makes sense. I know it's visual, but it sounds quieter somehow. ISABELLE RICHARDS: And then there's people who it's like, and then once and then even more extreme, like when you open the drawer now, everything has just one spot. But when I say that, I feel like I know that when I first heard this idea, I was like, oh, I never thought that someone would need it different. This might explain why my kids always leave everything out, and I always try putting everything away because we have different needs. ISABELLE RICHARDS: They don't remember it exists if it's put away. Whereas I'm like, I cannot forget it exists unless it's put away. DAVID KESSLER: Unreal. That's such a great articulation. Thank you so much for listening. If you ever have that thought where you think, Hey, I have nothing, stop. [00:17:00] Remember you're suffering. Something's shiny. ISABELLE RICHARDS: That's right. Just as you are. If you like what you heard and you want to hear more free episodes of this podcast, please subscribe, rate and review anywhere you listen to podcasts or on Instagram as something shiny podcast. And if you're looking for more information, useful links, definitions, visuals, everything we can think of and more is on our website at something Shiny podcast. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Dot com and it's all free. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you in two weeks.