WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:06.700 --> 00:00:07.480 Gene Tavernetti: Hello, everyone. 00:00:07.780 --> 00:00:43.595 Today's episode of Better Teaching is going to be a little bit different in that I will not be interviewing any guests, but rather my friend and colleague, Andrew Bixler will be interviewing me and we'll be talking about how My book, Teach Fast, focused, adaptable, structured teaching, and for those of you who are new to this podcast, or just wondered who the heck is Gene Tavernetti, I thought I would give a little bit of an introduction of myself, just as if I were giving an introduction to any guest. 00:00:43.935 --> 00:00:52.570 So, Just to let you know, I've been involved in education for more than 35 years as a teacher, counselor, coach, administrator, and consultant. 00:00:53.250 --> 00:01:08.470 I've authored two books, Teach Fast, Focused Adaptable Structured Teaching, which is what we will be talking about today, and also Maximizing the Impact of Coaching Cycles, a book about how to get the most out of coaching. 00:01:08.705 --> 00:01:15.525 Teachers and getting the most out of your coaching program that you've invested in at your school in 2006. 00:01:16.395 --> 00:01:20.335 I partnered with my former high school teacher and mentor. 00:01:20.345 --> 00:01:21.685 Dr. Randall Olson. 00:01:22.670 --> 00:01:36.210 To found test consulting group, which is stands for total educational system support focus of test has always been training teachers and those who support teachers in how to provide the best instruction. 00:01:37.100 --> 00:01:45.990 My belief about children and adults is that given the right environment and the proper support, everyone can improve and succeed. 00:01:46.730 --> 00:01:51.800 I hope you enjoyed today's episode of better teaching only stuff that works. 00:01:52.645 --> 00:01:54.925 Welcome, everyone, and welcome, Andrew. 00:01:54.925 --> 00:02:07.995 I have to thank you one more time for being my guest host for this episode of Better Teaching, Only Stuff That Works, to allow me to reintroduce my book, Teach Fast. 00:02:08.075 --> 00:02:09.915 So thank you, Andrew Bixler. 00:02:10.815 --> 00:02:11.985 Andrew Bixler: More than happy to. 00:02:12.045 --> 00:02:13.965 I very much enjoyed the book, so this should be fun. 00:02:14.505 --> 00:02:15.645 Gene Tavernetti: All right great. 00:02:16.192 --> 00:02:22.572 Andrew Bixler: So, just to start, how did you come up with FAST, Focused Adaptable Structure Teaching? 00:02:22.902 --> 00:02:26.332 What is the FAST framework, and why did you write the book? 00:02:27.282 --> 00:03:23.047 Gene Tavernetti: Well, the title, of course, is Focused Adaptable Structured Teaching but to be very clear, TeachFast is a book about explicit instruction it's a book about designing and delivering Explicit instruction lessons because for years explicit instruction has been criticized for being boring, for being spoon feeding, for being just lecture, all the things we continue to hear today all the, all what all the critics have to say about explicit instruction, but over 20 years ago, when I began to work with teachers across the country, I found that many teachers were teaching in a manner that these critics we're exactly describing, you know, in other words, the lessons that many teachers were describing as explicit teaching or direct teaching were not well designed, they were not well delivered, and certainly not lessons that I would in any way describe as solid, explicit teaching. 00:03:23.547 --> 00:03:38.827 And I think there was an an assumption by administrators, by publishers By teachers themselves that teachers had been trained in how to teach explicit lessons, but they hadn't at least not trained how to do it well. 00:03:39.517 --> 00:03:46.017 So teachers were given textbooks or curriculum guides and many times in the guide themselves. 00:03:46.247 --> 00:03:51.447 It would say at this point, teach a direct lesson about X, whatever was the content of the day. 00:03:51.847 --> 00:03:54.797 And the assumption was that teachers do how to do that. 00:03:54.827 --> 00:03:57.397 They knew how to design a teach a direct lesson. 00:03:59.042 --> 00:04:00.372 So what happened? 00:04:00.432 --> 00:04:03.572 Teachers presented lessons that were way too long. 00:04:04.462 --> 00:04:08.972 The teacher talked too much or, on the other hand, they didn't talk enough. 00:04:09.422 --> 00:04:11.562 The teacher didn't explain well. 00:04:11.942 --> 00:04:14.902 The students, or the students weren't getting enough practice. 00:04:15.222 --> 00:04:36.152 Or the students were assigned practice and activities that they weren't being provided adequate explanations to do them well, or the teachers just tried to cram way too many concepts into one lesson, and many times they did that because that's what their textbook, their their guide told them to do. 00:04:36.952 --> 00:04:48.142 So it wasn't that there hadn't been anything written about explicit instruction before I wrote TeachFast, but it didn't provide good content. 00:04:48.487 --> 00:05:02.637 for teachers because most of the books made the teaching way too complicated that someone either couldn't understand the book or they couldn't understand how to teach the lesson in the manner the book described. 00:05:03.107 --> 00:05:10.467 And look, teaching is one of the most complex things there is to do, but explanations about how to do it well. 00:05:11.447 --> 00:05:12.997 It doesn't have to be complicated. 00:05:13.257 --> 00:05:20.577 So, TeachFast captures the complexities of teaching, but presents them in a simple way. 00:05:21.167 --> 00:05:27.677 So, it was my job, me as the author, I assumed the responsibility for understanding all the complexity. 00:05:28.597 --> 00:05:32.777 And I created a lesson structure that was less complex, simple. 00:05:33.627 --> 00:05:44.767 So, TeachFast, in the book, there are clear tips for designing and delivering lessons, explicit lessons, with examples from different content areas. 00:05:45.077 --> 00:05:51.427 But the tips, the design and delivery tips, are not tied to any one content area. 00:05:51.427 --> 00:05:54.297 They can be generalized to, to all the content areas. 00:05:55.807 --> 00:06:15.847 Andrew Bixler: Yeah, I found the simplicity of the delivery of information to be super helpful, and still coming away with Something really substantial substantial and having experienced many of the things that are in the book myself as a teacher. 00:06:16.427 --> 00:06:20.497 I can tell that the complexity does come across really well. 00:06:20.557 --> 00:06:35.107 Speaking of complexity, how did you get the lesson structure to be evidence based, but you don't really discuss a lot of the research in the actual book? 00:06:35.877 --> 00:06:36.147 Gene Tavernetti: Well, 00:06:36.377 --> 00:06:38.087 Andrew Bixler: So why did you decide to do that? 00:06:38.317 --> 00:06:41.167 Gene Tavernetti: Well, I There are a couple reasons. 00:06:41.217 --> 00:06:52.967 I didn't want to include a lot of the evidence But like you said it is totally evidence based and the first reason was I didn't want to write a textbook about research You know number one. 00:06:53.327 --> 00:07:01.397 I am NOT There are people way more qualified to do that, to write about the research, and there are a lot of people doing that. 00:07:01.787 --> 00:07:13.207 I wanted to give teachers a practical book, a book that embedded all of Rosenstein's principles, and with real guidance, how to do explicit teaching well. 00:07:14.257 --> 00:07:26.407 If a teacher knows the research what, you know, we colloquially call the science of learning today, they will recognize the research when it shows up in the book and how I operate, operationalize that. 00:07:26.657 --> 00:07:30.697 So those folks, great, they see it, you know, they're happy with that. 00:07:31.117 --> 00:07:46.522 If you don't know it, that's fine, too, because the second reason I didn't include a lot of research in the book is that the book is based on my experiences of nearly 20 years working, training, coaching teachers, working with real kids. 00:07:47.532 --> 00:07:51.402 I wanted that experience to come across in the book. 00:07:52.222 --> 00:07:58.892 I wanted teachers to read explanations and have them make connections to their own practice. 00:08:00.007 --> 00:08:13.287 I wanted their experiences to be the reason they realized that what they were reading made sense and was worth trying, not because some researcher who may be unknown to them thought it was a good idea. 00:08:13.884 --> 00:08:15.064 Andrew Bixler: There are many different. 00:08:15.524 --> 00:08:22.994 approaches and what would you say is different about the FAST approach compared to other lesson structures? 00:08:23.954 --> 00:08:30.314 Gene Tavernetti: Well, as you say, there's there are other approaches to explicit instruction other organizational frameworks. 00:08:30.324 --> 00:08:38.304 You know, I think of people, many people are familiar with Robert Slavin older folks like me are familiar with Madeline Hunter. 00:08:38.464 --> 00:08:42.214 So there are a lot of similarities and, okay. 00:08:42.909 --> 00:09:01.049 Again there's nothing wrong with those other structures, but the reason that, that I think mine is mine, the FAST approach for people who know me, they understand that in every conversation, there will be a time in the conversation where I tell them how smart I am, and this may be one of those instances, but 00:09:01.179 --> 00:09:01.789 Andrew Bixler: vouch. 00:09:03.444 --> 00:09:20.579 Gene Tavernetti: the main differences are four, they're coherence in the lesson design, How we talk about modeling, and we, me, talks about modeling, how we talk about guided practice, and the fact that there are some guidelines for time. 00:09:20.589 --> 00:09:27.469 So, so, those four main differences, all four address the common problems. 00:09:27.834 --> 00:09:30.924 that I see in lessons that are not as successful as they could be. 00:09:30.934 --> 00:09:37.574 Namely, they go way too long, or the teacher is trying to teach way too much content. 00:09:37.774 --> 00:09:43.894 So the FAST framework addresses those issues of, we could call them cognitive load and limited attention. 00:09:43.894 --> 00:09:47.154 So, the first one, as I said, is coherence. 00:09:48.324 --> 00:09:55.364 Now, the FAST framework in the book describes how all the lesson elements are related. 00:09:55.844 --> 00:10:03.684 So when I say lesson elements, we could call them lesson components, such as and again, these are things that everybody's familiar with. 00:10:03.984 --> 00:10:08.734 Lesson objectives, review, modeling, guided practice, et cetera. 00:10:09.354 --> 00:10:16.474 So all of these components are planned in such a manner that they are very closely related. 00:10:16.584 --> 00:10:18.044 And so this allows. 00:10:18.549 --> 00:10:24.359 teachers to produce lessons that contained very little extraneous cognitive load. 00:10:25.219 --> 00:10:27.789 The second difference that I said was modeling. 00:10:28.069 --> 00:10:39.729 We talk about modeling and we describe how teachers should model, and modeling can be done much more efficiently than most books and articles talk about it. 00:10:39.989 --> 00:10:49.964 In fact, most books and articles on how to model content promote methods that run literally counterproductive to what we know about learning. 00:10:50.514 --> 00:10:54.744 Third difference is how we design and deliver guided practice. 00:10:55.434 --> 00:11:06.164 And the way we describe guided practice or the way it's described in many resources is not really responsive. 00:11:06.784 --> 00:11:09.904 To teachers who get lessons very quickly. 00:11:09.994 --> 00:11:11.534 You know, they just get it. 00:11:11.994 --> 00:11:15.994 That's not a real academic term, but everybody knows what it means when a kid gets it. 00:11:16.314 --> 00:11:20.994 So, the kid that gets it very quickly or to students who need more instruction. 00:11:21.459 --> 00:11:24.249 We need to be responsive to both of those groups. 00:11:24.579 --> 00:11:31.869 And if the guided practice doesn't work for those students, those two groups, which is basically everybody, then it's not working for the teacher. 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:33.259 The lesson's just not working. 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:38.109 And the last difference is TeachPASS provide guidelines. 00:11:39.164 --> 00:11:42.014 for how long parts of a lesson should take. 00:11:42.554 --> 00:11:58.404 Knowing how long something should take I think provides another parameter that makes lesson planning easier because It helps teachers make decisions about how to eliminate bluff from their lessons. 00:11:58.944 --> 00:12:02.104 And I think parameters aren't restrictive. 00:12:02.204 --> 00:12:07.484 I think, I believe that when you have parameters, it makes you more creative. 00:12:07.954 --> 00:12:09.114 So those are the four. 00:12:09.234 --> 00:12:17.004 Coherence, modeling, guided practice, and then having guidelines for The how long things should take. 00:12:18.239 --> 00:12:26.659 Andrew Bixler: Yeah, I found the timing to be really helpful throughout the book to kind of give structure within which you can be More creative. 00:12:26.849 --> 00:12:41.519 And speaking of which you mentioned those four, what were, what would be some examples, because I really liked a lot of the examples in the book, the examples of differences and how they would manifest a bit more concretely in the lesson. 00:12:42.414 --> 00:12:42.724 Gene Tavernetti: Okay. 00:12:42.724 --> 00:12:43.844 Well, let's take them in order. 00:12:43.854 --> 00:13:06.304 So let's start with coherence So as I said earlier each lesson component is related to another component so for example Most lessons will have a review component Now, when I'm working with teachers, I'll ask them, Do any of your students have learning gaps? 00:13:07.104 --> 00:13:10.754 And of course they laugh, because all students have learning gaps. 00:13:11.084 --> 00:13:15.474 And they laugh and tell me they have learning gaps, even in the highest performing. 00:13:16.724 --> 00:13:20.184 So, so of course they have learning gaps. 00:13:20.194 --> 00:13:32.874 So, so what's the implication, of course, for the lesson, or rather the implication for the lesson, is that there will be content that needs to be reviewed before we introduce new material. 00:13:33.419 --> 00:13:44.539 So the question in designing a lesson, though, is not that they have learning gaps, but what specifically, what specific content for this lesson needs to be reviewed. 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:55.149 Now, the only way to determine what needs to be reviewed is to already have planned what the students are going to have to do to learn the new task. 00:13:55.149 --> 00:13:57.369 What are those constituent skills that they're going to need? 00:13:57.949 --> 00:14:01.449 So what that means is the teacher needs to look. 00:14:01.749 --> 00:14:14.749 At the new task and ask themselves what's the minimum amount of prior knowledge students need to do today's lesson and they need to ask the minimum amount. 00:14:14.769 --> 00:14:16.399 What specifically do they need to know? 00:14:16.439 --> 00:14:18.069 Because the teacher doesn't have time. 00:14:18.069 --> 00:14:32.739 They're not able to remediate all the content students don't know, or they're not necessarily proficient in, but the teacher can design a review that exactly supports the new learning. 00:14:34.044 --> 00:14:43.134 And conversely, the teacher designs the new learning, anticipating where the students are going to be needing support in certain areas of the lesson. 00:14:43.664 --> 00:14:57.454 So, again, you could see the, how they are interrelated and again, by limiting the review to exactly what needs to be reviewed, this limits extraneous content being added to the lesson. 00:14:58.134 --> 00:15:02.674 So, planning the review directly relates to the new content. 00:15:02.894 --> 00:15:04.074 And that's an example of that. 00:15:04.384 --> 00:15:05.254 Coherent planning. 00:15:05.264 --> 00:15:07.264 Let me give you, let me give you another example. 00:15:07.814 --> 00:15:16.714 Another example is that independent practice in a lesson exactly matches the learning objective. 00:15:17.604 --> 00:15:26.404 So what this means is that guided practice in the lesson must match or closely resemble independent practice. 00:15:27.174 --> 00:15:35.984 So if students are be successful in the, if students are going to be successful in the guided practice, the problem types must match. 00:15:36.794 --> 00:15:38.644 What the teacher presented in the modeling. 00:15:39.414 --> 00:15:49.124 So as the lesson proceeds, each component is related to other components, thereby creating this coherence in the lesson. 00:15:49.594 --> 00:15:55.674 So, all the components are related and interdependent on one another. 00:15:55.864 --> 00:15:58.844 So, huge benefit of coherent lessons. 00:15:59.449 --> 00:16:04.959 It helps them make, it helps the teacher make decisions about what should be in the lesson. 00:16:06.069 --> 00:16:20.329 And when we are conscious of not putting too much content in a lesson and this extraneous cognitive load, it also helps the teacher decide what isn't going into the lesson. 00:16:21.894 --> 00:16:22.114 So. 00:16:22.544 --> 00:16:24.894 Okay. 00:16:24.939 --> 00:16:32.969 Andrew Bixler: start with coherence because then the line of reasoning follows making what I found to be. 00:16:33.709 --> 00:16:40.089 Another strength of the book is the speed at which you can plan once you have this down. 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:41.619 But there are two more. 00:16:41.719 --> 00:16:44.139 There's the third one was guided practice. 00:16:44.149 --> 00:16:46.479 So what be an example of guided practice? 00:16:46.724 --> 00:16:49.924 Gene Tavernetti: let me talk about, let me talk about modeling first before I forget. 00:16:50.014 --> 00:16:50.504 Okay. 00:16:50.754 --> 00:16:51.844 So we had modeling. 00:16:51.854 --> 00:16:53.194 Modeling is a difference. 00:16:53.984 --> 00:16:59.134 And a question comes up from teachers is, you know, how many problems should I model? 00:17:00.104 --> 00:17:01.984 And in the book, we tell them. 00:17:02.574 --> 00:17:04.724 Model two and they'll say, well, wait a second. 00:17:04.964 --> 00:17:07.744 You don't know my kids, you know, you don't know my kids. 00:17:07.924 --> 00:17:09.224 They're a little bit slower. 00:17:09.244 --> 00:17:10.714 I need to do more models. 00:17:10.784 --> 00:17:11.664 Hey, you know what? 00:17:12.204 --> 00:17:15.614 Students don't learn when they watch a teacher model. 00:17:16.634 --> 00:17:20.214 They learn when they perform the task, when they start to practice. 00:17:20.714 --> 00:17:32.304 So if the teacher chooses two excellent examples, two problems are sufficient to model Before students are asked to practice. 00:17:32.854 --> 00:17:43.107 So, another thing about modeling in addition to the number of problems, which is different from what many people say in addition to the number of problems. 00:17:43.452 --> 00:17:45.592 Which is a function of the design. 00:17:46.502 --> 00:17:53.062 We need, we tell teachers that students are not active participants in the modeling. 00:17:53.063 --> 00:18:01.472 And when we say active participants we tell them that their job during the modeling is to listen and watch. 00:18:01.792 --> 00:18:09.242 And I jokingly tell teachers you know, in your nicest teacher voice tell the teachers, sit down, shut up and watch. 00:18:10.082 --> 00:18:13.972 And it's the only time during the lesson and I want to emphasize. 00:18:15.082 --> 00:18:25.492 It's the only time during the lesson that students will not be asked to respond to something, to say something, or encouraged to ask questions. 00:18:26.142 --> 00:18:34.632 So students do not ask questions or comment, and the teacher does not ask questions of the students. 00:18:35.002 --> 00:18:36.992 So why is this so important? 00:18:38.452 --> 00:18:48.737 If the teacher's not asking any questions or taking questions, teachers can model Two problems very quickly, usually within a couple of minutes. 00:18:48.987 --> 00:18:55.707 Now, this is important because students have very limited attention spans. 00:18:56.497 --> 00:19:02.827 So we want students to see an uninterrupted by questions by either the students or the teachers. 00:19:04.107 --> 00:19:06.777 Let's see, an uninterrupted fluent model. 00:19:07.827 --> 00:19:15.477 And the more efficiently we can model those two problems, the faster we can get students practicing. 00:19:16.177 --> 00:19:22.767 And as we know, practice is where the students begin to learn and begin on the road to mastery. 00:19:23.217 --> 00:19:26.730 So that's some of the differences in the modeling. 00:19:26.730 --> 00:19:29.130 Andrew Bixler: I'm sorry, I skipped over that one. 00:19:29.130 --> 00:19:30.810 That one's really important, obviously. 00:19:30.840 --> 00:19:39.000 And I think it's a really important distinction to make because, you know, so many people are confused about what explicit instruction entails. 00:19:39.010 --> 00:19:54.230 People think, oh, it's just a lecture, but If you're only at the front of the room modeling in a silent room where everyone's watching for a couple of minutes and you're immediately getting into practice, that gives a lot more time for practice, actually. 00:19:54.390 --> 00:19:58.570 So, I liked the way that that part of it made it very clear. 00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:00.949 the third one is guided practice. 00:20:00.979 --> 00:20:03.529 So, how is the guided practice different? 00:20:03.529 --> 00:20:04.569 This one was big for me. 00:20:05.139 --> 00:20:15.529 Gene Tavernetti: Well, this is, I think, one of the most important differences in the book guided practice, you know, as many people think of it is as is the we do have the lesson. 00:20:17.029 --> 00:20:27.109 And the distinction in Teach Fast is that during the guided practice, the teachers aren't doing the work with the students. 00:20:27.169 --> 00:20:31.549 The distinction is the teachers are directing the students. 00:20:32.909 --> 00:20:38.949 But from the first guided practice problem, The students are doing 100 percent of the work. 00:20:39.059 --> 00:20:40.029 Now, this is different. 00:20:40.209 --> 00:20:41.069 Let me say that again. 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:49.769 From the first guided practice problem, after the teacher has modeled, the students are doing 100 percent of the work. 00:20:50.159 --> 00:20:54.089 And many teachers don't think this is possible. 00:20:54.619 --> 00:20:56.559 And it is possible. 00:20:56.909 --> 00:21:04.189 They are able to do the work because the teacher only directs them to do one small chunk of the entire task. 00:21:04.779 --> 00:21:22.879 So, for example, if the teacher modeled how to do a procedure you know, that has four steps in the first guided practice problem, the teacher would initially direct students to only do one step and stop. 00:21:23.109 --> 00:21:25.019 Do one step and stop. 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:31.519 The teacher would check the student's work, provide feedback, then direct the students. 00:21:31.819 --> 00:21:34.669 to perform another step and stop. 00:21:35.219 --> 00:21:40.309 They're doing small chunks, but they are doing 100 percent of the work from the very beginning. 00:21:40.609 --> 00:21:49.659 Now, this process, by having the students do 100 percent of the work, provides excellent formative data to the teacher. 00:21:50.259 --> 00:21:58.899 Now, in the book, there is a more complete explanation, of course, about, you know, and many more tips about how to do this directed practice. 00:21:59.329 --> 00:22:06.079 But the important thing is that the students are doing 100 percent of the work, getting more practice. 00:22:06.139 --> 00:22:09.409 Now this is just one way that, in which guided practice is different. 00:22:09.509 --> 00:22:15.139 Another important difference is the number of guided practice problems. 00:22:15.679 --> 00:22:19.249 that are necessary to do during the guided practice. 00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:22.759 So how many problems should the teacher plan for? 00:22:23.999 --> 00:22:25.439 Again, we provide an answer. 00:22:25.439 --> 00:22:28.529 The answer is three and in some instances four. 00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:29.729 So why? 00:22:30.129 --> 00:22:33.109 Well, guided practice has two purposes. 00:22:33.659 --> 00:22:41.149 The first purpose, or one of the purposes, I'll say, is for the students, and the other is for the teacher. 00:22:41.429 --> 00:22:51.979 So, for students, guided practice provides the necessary practice to do the new content with teacher feedback. 00:22:52.209 --> 00:22:58.159 So the first purpose for the students, to provide necessary practice with teacher feedback. 00:22:58.209 --> 00:23:01.629 Now, what does the guide of practice do for the teacher? 00:23:02.169 --> 00:23:05.629 It provides formative data at a granular level. 00:23:06.589 --> 00:23:11.849 The teacher will be able to determine exactly what the students do not know. 00:23:12.399 --> 00:23:17.309 So many times we hear guided practice, the formative data tells the teacher what the students know. 00:23:17.609 --> 00:23:19.119 That's wonderful to know that. 00:23:20.189 --> 00:23:24.319 What they need to know to do any sort of remediation is what they don't know. 00:23:24.804 --> 00:23:26.524 So, how many problems? 00:23:26.524 --> 00:23:27.574 Three problems. 00:23:28.034 --> 00:23:35.954 Now, after three problems, what happens with a class is they, there will be this natural bifurcation into two groups. 00:23:35.964 --> 00:23:39.334 One group that is ready for independent practice. 00:23:39.674 --> 00:23:45.474 This is the group that gets it and a group that needs immediate in class intervention. 00:23:46.054 --> 00:23:50.654 Now the group that's ready to move on is happy because they can start practicing. 00:23:50.664 --> 00:23:51.314 They're ready. 00:23:51.894 --> 00:23:53.074 They want to show their stuff. 00:23:53.514 --> 00:23:58.834 The group that needs remediation gets it without having to wait. 00:23:59.554 --> 00:24:17.344 And when the teacher does this in class remediation, Because of the granular level, the the information, the formative information that they received, the teacher knows exactly what part of the lesson needs to be remediated, and they don't need to reteach the entire lesson. 00:24:17.524 --> 00:24:22.944 They go and remediate, reteach, do more practice on those. 00:24:23.934 --> 00:24:27.494 areas where the student needs, where the students need to work. 00:24:27.714 --> 00:24:35.564 So those are two real differences, we think, in the guided practice that allows teachers to be more successful. 00:24:36.609 --> 00:24:37.149 Andrew Bixler: Awesome. 00:24:37.209 --> 00:24:49.409 I think one of the big things that teachers might not have a firm grasp on is how much time is actually lost by not checking for understanding in a more systematic way. 00:24:50.284 --> 00:25:03.784 Because when you do a big chunk of the lesson, and maybe you should have broken up into two parts, now you have to go back and potentially be reteaching those moments when TeachFast is already kind of set up into a system. 00:25:04.334 --> 00:25:13.984 And speaking of address, addressing lesson planning and lesson delivery, you do this in every chapter. 00:25:14.174 --> 00:25:17.964 Why did you include Both lesson planning and delivery. 00:25:19.454 --> 00:25:24.894 Gene Tavernetti: Well, the, we want to address the reasons why. 00:25:25.514 --> 00:25:26.894 Lessons don't go well. 00:25:27.244 --> 00:25:44.994 And again, I want to state again, the main reasons why lessons don't go as well as they could is because they're too long and or there's just too much content, which is exactly what you're talking about, you know, in your previous comment. 00:25:45.394 --> 00:25:47.914 So the problem of too much content. 00:25:48.779 --> 00:25:51.229 That's addressed in the design of the lesson. 00:25:52.399 --> 00:25:58.769 That's why I need to talk about design in every chapter, because we need to be sure that there's just not too much content. 00:25:59.169 --> 00:26:34.599 Now, lessons being too long that can be a function of lesson design, but mostly, It's related to how teachers deliver the lesson, and specifically how long any component of the lesson may take or even just a part of the component may take and so we have some guidelines to let teachers know how long something might take and let me give you an example of something that we see all the time of something that Frequently, that takes way much more time than it needs to be. 00:26:34.629 --> 00:26:45.849 So, and a real important component of the lesson is critical to every student learning is having students activate prior knowledge. 00:26:46.219 --> 00:26:54.699 Because they're going to have to pull this knowledge from long term memory into their working memory to learn new content. 00:26:54.719 --> 00:26:55.049 Now. 00:26:56.369 --> 00:27:02.149 This can be done in the design of the lesson by choosing a question that all students can relate to. 00:27:02.249 --> 00:27:05.089 So, let's imagine you're a language arts teacher. 00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:13.269 Not too big a stretch for you, Andrew, but imagine you're a language arts teacher, and you're going to be teaching about characterization. 00:27:13.739 --> 00:27:17.189 And you're going to be talking about how authors develop characters. 00:27:17.859 --> 00:27:27.459 So, Maybe during that lesson, you're going to be talking about indirect characterization, how an author might just have a character do something that tells you about them. 00:27:27.469 --> 00:27:32.119 So, for example, you might ask a question to the entire class. 00:27:32.669 --> 00:27:38.379 You might ask the students to think of something that a very tall person might do. 00:27:39.879 --> 00:27:43.839 And again, it's related to, you know, this indirect characterization. 00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:55.199 So they might say, well, he bends over or she bends over to talk to somebody or her knees when she sits down her, you know, the knees are way up or they have to duck going through a door. 00:27:55.669 --> 00:27:56.059 Okay. 00:27:57.139 --> 00:28:06.499 Every student has to have pulled something from their long term memory to, to answer that question. 00:28:06.819 --> 00:28:08.639 And they all have those experiences. 00:28:09.299 --> 00:28:15.739 Now, every person has to do it, but not every person has to share with the class. 00:28:16.629 --> 00:28:23.579 So many times, you know, we ask the class to think of something and then we go from student to answer the question. 00:28:23.729 --> 00:28:24.739 That's not necessary. 00:28:25.364 --> 00:28:32.524 So, in the book, there are delivery tips that will allow a teacher to accomplish what's necessary for the lesson. 00:28:32.644 --> 00:28:33.734 And what's necessary? 00:28:34.144 --> 00:28:39.274 Students accessing schema about descriptions in a very short period of time. 00:28:40.494 --> 00:28:41.764 What's that short period of time? 00:28:41.814 --> 00:28:46.464 In the book, the guideline for how much time this should take is about three minutes. 00:28:47.344 --> 00:28:55.574 So, both design and delivery are important to combat the reasons that most lessons don't go well. 00:28:56.728 --> 00:28:57.188 Andrew Bixler: Yeah. 00:28:57.188 --> 00:29:07.958 If one kid shares about how this character can dunk a basketball, mostly everyone in that class is going to be able to infer that person's probably tall. 00:29:08.513 --> 00:29:15.263 know, unless it's a biography about Muncie folks, I really love the examples in the book. 00:29:15.283 --> 00:29:30.803 They're so like simple, but they do exactly what they need to do and nothing else, again, all tying back to being able to teach quickly once we've accomplished the goal at whatever component it is, we can move on. 00:29:30.963 --> 00:29:40.023 And we share actually an obsession with efficiency and maybe that's why I keep harping on how the speed and the appreciation of time. 00:29:40.548 --> 00:29:46.718 But why do you think efficiency is so important given that you mention it so often throughout the book? 00:29:48.378 --> 00:29:49.428 Gene Tavernetti: couple of reasons. 00:29:49.628 --> 00:29:59.508 You know, the first is something that is in the news a lot these days is that limited attention span of students. 00:29:59.958 --> 00:30:16.578 I mean, you know, even before the the impact of the digital landscape up today, digital screens, design of social media attention spans have always not been great, but they're reduced even further now. 00:30:17.028 --> 00:30:19.078 So efficient lessons. 00:30:19.893 --> 00:30:21.313 are focused lessons. 00:30:22.463 --> 00:30:24.373 Efficient lessons are focused lessons. 00:30:24.573 --> 00:30:30.443 Efficient lessons provide instruction the way that matches the way student learns. 00:30:30.933 --> 00:30:35.583 So, efficient lessons, almost by definition are student centered lessons. 00:30:35.723 --> 00:30:47.103 So, the other reason for efficient lessons is there are so many things that as teachers we want our students, you know, to do that we need students to do. 00:30:47.833 --> 00:30:53.673 One of those things is we need to remediate, we need to fill gaps, and we need time for that. 00:30:53.903 --> 00:30:56.823 So efficient lessons allows us time to do that. 00:30:57.303 --> 00:31:07.643 We need time to do structured retrieval practice to make sure students, you know, actually are remembering and learning the content that we want them to know. 00:31:08.473 --> 00:31:10.023 And so, and there's a need. 00:31:10.298 --> 00:31:20.898 To have, for time, to allow students to apply what they learned in their lessons through projects, through labs, through various extended learning activities. 00:31:21.148 --> 00:31:25.068 So, I'm obsessed because efficiency is important. 00:31:25.391 --> 00:31:26.591 Andrew Bixler: mean, that sounds good to me. 00:31:26.591 --> 00:31:42.771 I think it's a really good distinction to make that while we acknowledge attention as being in short supply and just time in general in school within a lesson, you know, sometimes your period is only 40, 45 minutes. 00:31:43.341 --> 00:32:05.401 And it's not about the quote unquote engagement, but it's about making sure that your lessons are so focused and so organized that, and quick, as we've said, that there, there's much less time, there's fewer opportunities to even be distracted because you're just moving on to the next component. 00:32:06.081 --> 00:32:16.951 So that's another one of the great strengths of the book is how quickly, but also efficiently and focused each component, each chapter outlines this practice. 00:32:17.481 --> 00:32:20.171 So, like I said I really enjoyed the book. 00:32:20.221 --> 00:32:24.081 I mean, I think I reached out to you halfway through it and was like, this is so great. 00:32:24.161 --> 00:32:26.471 And That only continued as I finished it. 00:32:26.591 --> 00:32:30.131 So I'm excited for people who haven't read it to, to get their hands on it. 00:32:31.176 --> 00:32:32.466 Gene Tavernetti: You know, I and thanks, Andrew. 00:32:32.466 --> 00:32:35.186 I appreciate, you know, the opportunity to talk about it. 00:32:35.716 --> 00:32:42.176 And you know, I tried to give examples, but of course I gave short examples. 00:32:42.326 --> 00:32:47.356 You know, the everything that I talked about is go, you know, I go into a lot more detail. 00:32:47.641 --> 00:32:58.031 About how to do these things, because, um, if you aren't clear, if you aren't concise and give specific advice it's not clear. 00:32:58.031 --> 00:32:59.931 It's just another book that, that you read. 00:32:59.931 --> 00:33:01.751 And, you know, how do I apply this? 00:33:01.991 --> 00:33:02.461 So, 00:33:02.521 --> 00:33:04.201 Andrew Bixler: You know, you gotta leave some meat on the bone. 00:33:04.751 --> 00:33:05.311 And. 00:33:06.011 --> 00:33:16.991 I said I'm thrilled to get the opportunity to, talk to you about it because I know that it was very helpful for me in a book that I'm definitely gonna go back to continually in the future, 00:33:17.881 --> 00:33:19.521 Gene Tavernetti: well, again, thank you. 00:33:19.741 --> 00:33:23.811 And a book that was beneficial to an experienced teacher. 00:33:24.121 --> 00:33:26.961 And I think new teachers will get a lot out of it as well. 00:33:27.591 --> 00:33:28.371 Andrew Bixler: more so even. 00:33:28.421 --> 00:33:29.021 Gene Tavernetti: All right. 00:33:29.351 --> 00:33:29.761 Thank you. 00:33:29.761 --> 00:33:30.261 Andrew. 00:33:32.304 --> 00:33:34.944 If you're enjoying these podcasts, tell a friend. 00:33:35.244 --> 00:33:40.814 Also, please leave a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. 00:33:41.504 --> 00:33:51.584 You can follow me on BlueSky at gTabernetti, on Twitter, x at gTabernetti, and you can learn more about me and the work I do at my website, BlueSky. 00:33:51.994 --> 00:33:52.424 Tesscg. 00:33:53.414 --> 00:34:08.784 com, that's T E S S C G dot com, where you will also find information about ordering my books, Teach Fast, Focus Adaptable Structure Teaching, and Maximizing the Impact of Coaching Cycles. 00:34:09.354 --> 00:34:10.174 Talk to you soon