WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:04.388 --> 00:00:07.188 voiceover: A key component of the modern world economy, the chemical 00:00:07.188 --> 00:00:10.728 industry delivers products and innovations to enhance everyday life. 00:00:11.248 --> 00:00:15.238 It is also an industry in transformation where chemical executives and 00:00:15.238 --> 00:00:18.868 workers are delivering growth and industry changing advancements while 00:00:18.868 --> 00:00:22.608 responding to pressures from investors, regulators, and public opinion. 00:00:23.158 --> 00:00:26.098 Discover how leading companies are approaching these challenges 00:00:26.108 --> 00:00:27.708 here on the chemical show. 00:00:28.178 --> 00:00:31.518 Join Victoria Meyer, president of Progressio Global and 00:00:31.528 --> 00:00:32.948 host of the chemical show. 00:00:33.223 --> 00:00:37.423 As she speaks with executives across the industry and learns how they are leading 00:00:37.423 --> 00:00:43.003 their companies to grow, transform, and push industry boundaries on all frontiers. 00:00:43.343 --> 00:00:45.593 Here's your host, Victoria Meyer. 00:00:48.016 --> 00:00:49.576 Victoria: Hi, this is Victoria Meyer. 00:00:49.616 --> 00:00:52.906 Welcome back to The Chemical Show where Chemicals Means Business. 00:00:53.466 --> 00:00:57.306 Today, I am speaking with Gaurab Chakrabarti, who is the 00:00:57.306 --> 00:01:01.026 co-founder and CEO of Solugen. 00:01:01.076 --> 00:01:02.486 There's a lot we can say about Gaurab. 00:01:02.546 --> 00:01:08.871 He is a physician and a scientist, , a Forbes 30 under 30 recognition in 00:01:08.871 --> 00:01:15.281 industry and manufacturing, and more importantly, in 2016, he and Sean Hunt 00:01:15.741 --> 00:01:20.841 co-founded Solugen with this vision of decarbonizing the chemical industry. 00:01:20.881 --> 00:01:23.491 So we're going to be talking about that today and more. 00:01:24.081 --> 00:01:25.641 Gaurab, welcome to The Chemical Show. 00:01:26.252 --> 00:01:27.222 Gaurab: Thank you for having me. 00:01:27.252 --> 00:01:28.372 , really excited to be on. 00:01:29.361 --> 00:01:30.991 Victoria: I'm really excited to have you here. 00:01:31.401 --> 00:01:33.231 So chemicals and biochemicals. 00:01:34.421 --> 00:01:37.131 Um, weren't part of your original plan is my guess, right? 00:01:37.181 --> 00:01:41.051 So the story is, and you can tell us the story, but the story is you 00:01:41.051 --> 00:01:44.781 were on your way to being a medical doctor, before you started Solugen. 00:01:44.801 --> 00:01:46.781 So what got you onto this path? 00:01:46.831 --> 00:01:49.301 Gaurab: So I ended up getting the medical doctorate. 00:01:49.401 --> 00:01:52.101 What we, what I was doing, I was studying pancreatic cancer. 00:01:52.521 --> 00:01:57.421 And in pancreatic cancer, there's, uh, like a unique quirk that people have 00:01:57.421 --> 00:02:02.071 known for, for years is that it makes chemicals like hydrogen peroxide and 00:02:02.071 --> 00:02:04.811 certain organic acids super efficiently. 00:02:05.426 --> 00:02:06.396 And everyone just knew it. 00:02:06.396 --> 00:02:09.226 It was like this like secret that everyone knew about in the 00:02:09.226 --> 00:02:11.026 industry, but no one really knew why. 00:02:11.406 --> 00:02:15.636 And so what I was really interested in learning was like, why is it, what's 00:02:15.636 --> 00:02:17.896 actually driving its ability to do that? 00:02:17.946 --> 00:02:21.366 So that's really what got me interested in the chemical side 00:02:21.376 --> 00:02:23.666 was how does this cell do that? 00:02:24.046 --> 00:02:26.306 But on top of that, I came from a chemicals family. 00:02:26.476 --> 00:02:27.776 So my whole entire. 00:02:28.141 --> 00:02:29.931 My dad was a chemicals entrepreneur. 00:02:29.941 --> 00:02:31.701 My uncle's chemicals entrepreneur. 00:02:31.701 --> 00:02:36.321 Everyone in my family is either a chemical engineer or a chemicals entrepreneur. 00:02:36.441 --> 00:02:40.291 So that was the life you know, that was like the life path. 00:02:40.291 --> 00:02:41.421 And so I said, you know what? 00:02:41.841 --> 00:02:43.071 No, I'm not going to do that. 00:02:43.111 --> 00:02:46.021 I'm going to go be a physician scientist. 00:02:46.121 --> 00:02:47.791 I'm going to figure out cancer, right? 00:02:47.821 --> 00:02:50.591 That's what I thought was a really cool place to be. 00:02:50.961 --> 00:02:54.301 But little did I know, uh, that cancer really is just a chemical factory. 00:02:54.516 --> 00:02:57.496 It's just like any other, you know, chemical process that 00:02:57.526 --> 00:02:58.776 it's a complex chemical process. 00:02:59.146 --> 00:03:03.166 But once I started studying the cancer biology, I realized that this is the 00:03:03.176 --> 00:03:06.946 same thing that My dad talks about, this is the same thing my uncles talk about, 00:03:07.006 --> 00:03:09.336 it's just, it's called mass balance. 00:03:09.336 --> 00:03:11.786 Like, something goes in, something comes out. 00:03:11.896 --> 00:03:12.806 That's really all it is. 00:03:13.356 --> 00:03:13.846 Uh, and so 00:03:13.846 --> 00:03:17.536 that's where it all started was this, um, insight that like, Hey, maybe there's 00:03:17.536 --> 00:03:21.256 something about cancer that can teach us something about chemical processing. 00:03:21.816 --> 00:03:27.091 So I talked to my best friend, Sean Hunt, who is at MIT doing his, uh, He's a Ph. 00:03:27.091 --> 00:03:27.211 D. 00:03:27.211 --> 00:03:31.911 in chemical engineering on the production of massive industrial chemicals. 00:03:31.931 --> 00:03:34.231 He's like, I call him the dinosaur. 00:03:34.321 --> 00:03:39.551 He's your traditional like heat pressure, petrochemistry, super skeptical of 00:03:39.571 --> 00:03:42.101 biotechnology for a good reason. 00:03:42.101 --> 00:03:42.351 Right. 00:03:42.351 --> 00:03:44.781 There's, there's been some failures in the past. 00:03:44.821 --> 00:03:48.311 So Where we came together, we said, was there's actually something here 00:03:48.481 --> 00:03:52.121 is that there's this thing called an enzyme that's in pancreatic cancer 00:03:52.611 --> 00:03:54.801 that can basically act as a catalyst. 00:03:54.871 --> 00:03:58.751 So catalyst is used everywhere in chemistry, and this turns 00:03:58.751 --> 00:04:01.621 out pancreatic cancer has the world's most efficient catalyst. 00:04:01.731 --> 00:04:03.706 And so we teamed up and we realized that. 00:04:04.076 --> 00:04:06.196 There's a better way to make these chemical products. 00:04:06.306 --> 00:04:08.986 People just haven't had the opportunity to see it. 00:04:09.186 --> 00:04:13.166 And so we were just in a fortunate position where, the stars kind of 00:04:13.166 --> 00:04:16.796 aligned that I have this instinct on, hey, there's something here. 00:04:16.806 --> 00:04:21.066 Sean has just the hardcore intellect of knowing how to make it real. 00:04:21.386 --> 00:04:25.896 And together we just had this passion for like making something happen that 00:04:25.926 --> 00:04:29.546 like, I think when you meet Sean and I, the thing that you'll probably pick 00:04:29.546 --> 00:04:33.226 up quickly is that like, we're just relentless, like we will not stop until 00:04:33.226 --> 00:04:35.096 we figure out like how to make it work. 00:04:35.506 --> 00:04:38.206 And I think the two of us together kind of fed off that energy. 00:04:38.496 --> 00:04:41.606 And we realized there was like a big problem in the market where it was. 00:04:41.926 --> 00:04:43.156 Yield is the issue, right? 00:04:43.216 --> 00:04:45.646 If you look at the whole point of the chemicals industry, you want 00:04:45.651 --> 00:04:49.206 to go from feedstock to product as efficiently as possible. 00:04:49.296 --> 00:04:55.626 In certain respect of the industry, that yield can be 50, 60%, which is good. 00:04:55.626 --> 00:04:56.496 You make money, right? 00:04:56.496 --> 00:04:58.416 You're making 20%, whatever it is. 00:04:58.726 --> 00:05:00.646 But then the question becomes, well, what happens to that 00:05:00.646 --> 00:05:02.686 other 40, 50% of your feedstock? 00:05:02.746 --> 00:05:05.176 Either it can go into the environment as an emission. 00:05:05.471 --> 00:05:07.991 Or it can be reused in your process. 00:05:08.031 --> 00:05:10.411 But when you reuse it in the process, it costs energy. 00:05:10.411 --> 00:05:11.421 It costs money. 00:05:11.561 --> 00:05:12.051 It costs labor. 00:05:12.631 --> 00:05:17.181 So what we said was, is there a world where we can take this enzyme from cancer 00:05:17.331 --> 00:05:21.351 that has never been touched before in the context of chemicals industry and 00:05:21.351 --> 00:05:23.501 put it in effectively a chemical reactor. 00:05:23.861 --> 00:05:28.061 So instead of like trying to build like a biotech facility, we said, you know what? 00:05:28.361 --> 00:05:29.281 Let's keep it simple. 00:05:29.281 --> 00:05:30.831 Let's take it out of the cancer. 00:05:30.921 --> 00:05:32.081 This little enzyme catalyst. 00:05:32.476 --> 00:05:34.276 And drop it in a chemical plant and see if it works. 00:05:35.116 --> 00:05:38.566 And obviously it didn't work completely well the first time, but it worked 00:05:38.586 --> 00:05:42.016 well enough where we were confident that like, Hey, if this is a problem 00:05:42.036 --> 00:05:44.806 that Sean and I are passionate about, I think we can solve it. 00:05:44.876 --> 00:05:49.176 So that was really what got us to where we started the company. 00:05:49.176 --> 00:05:50.446 It was less about like. 00:05:50.846 --> 00:05:54.406 Our insight in the chemical industry, it was more about like, just his 00:05:54.416 --> 00:05:55.656 passion to solve the problem. 00:05:55.786 --> 00:05:56.466 And I think that's 00:05:56.490 --> 00:05:57.120 Victoria: That's cool. 00:05:57.266 --> 00:05:59.506 Gaurab: yeah, that's kind of why we did what we did. 00:05:59.570 --> 00:06:00.220 Victoria: That's very cool. 00:06:00.250 --> 00:06:04.970 And I, and I actually like how you relate the, the enzyme that are naturally 00:06:04.970 --> 00:06:07.050 occurring in our bodies elsewhere. 00:06:07.050 --> 00:06:10.460 I, a lot of times when I try to describe what a catalyst is to somebody who 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:12.900 has no idea, I'm like, you know, have you ever baked bread? 00:06:13.240 --> 00:06:13.850 You know, think of 00:06:13.850 --> 00:06:14.050 yeast. 00:06:14.110 --> 00:06:14.940 Yeast is a catalyst. 00:06:15.130 --> 00:06:18.250 And I, and I think we boil it down to really simple things. 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:19.730 Uh, we can demystify it, 00:06:20.116 --> 00:06:20.416 Gaurab: Yes. 00:06:20.576 --> 00:06:21.626 And it's not scary, right? 00:06:21.646 --> 00:06:25.976 Like it's, I think the other beauty of, of why we started Solugen was 00:06:25.996 --> 00:06:28.666 we wanted to bring people from different backgrounds, right? 00:06:28.736 --> 00:06:30.556 I I'm not a chemical engineer. 00:06:30.566 --> 00:06:34.486 Sean's not a enzymologist, but that's the environment that we're trying to create. 00:06:34.576 --> 00:06:34.856 Victoria: Right? 00:06:34.926 --> 00:06:35.606 That's very true. 00:06:35.716 --> 00:06:40.746 It's a, it's an industry that, um, it's chemists and chemical engineers and 00:06:41.326 --> 00:06:43.376 kind of traditional hard scientists, 00:06:43.456 --> 00:06:43.816 Gaurab: Yeah, 00:06:43.916 --> 00:06:45.896 Victoria: Continuing to work and develop and grow. 00:06:46.527 --> 00:06:47.047 Gaurab: exactly. 00:06:47.047 --> 00:06:50.556 Victoria: Let's talk a little bit about Solugen. 00:06:50.846 --> 00:06:53.536 And what the company is and what you guys are really doing. 00:06:54.257 --> 00:06:55.107 Gaurab: Yeah, absolutely. 00:06:55.137 --> 00:06:59.267 So really going back to how we started, we started to think 00:06:59.277 --> 00:07:00.667 about things in terms of yield. 00:07:00.727 --> 00:07:04.437 So if you look at what we're trying to do at Solugen, we believe that to 00:07:04.447 --> 00:07:07.887 decarbonize the chemicals industry is a nearly impossible task. 00:07:08.057 --> 00:07:10.667 And I'm saying that with the, with a company whose mission is 00:07:10.687 --> 00:07:11.987 to decarbonize this industry, 00:07:11.987 --> 00:07:12.197 right? 00:07:12.477 --> 00:07:13.567 Not like steel. 00:07:13.567 --> 00:07:14.727 It's not like cement, right? 00:07:14.727 --> 00:07:17.657 If you look at steel or cement or the big industrial emitters, 00:07:18.127 --> 00:07:19.457 they're one product, right? 00:07:19.457 --> 00:07:22.697 It's a steel, steel is steel, but in the chemicals industry, you're 00:07:22.697 --> 00:07:24.677 talking about a slew of product. 00:07:24.827 --> 00:07:27.992 You're talking about thousands of different SKUs, each with its own 00:07:27.992 --> 00:07:30.142 unique quirk and how it's manufactured. 00:07:30.432 --> 00:07:34.022 So what we said was, let's create a framework by which we can actually 00:07:34.042 --> 00:07:35.562 think about this decarbonization. 00:07:35.842 --> 00:07:38.532 And there's really three buckets in that framework that we break it down. 00:07:38.582 --> 00:07:42.482 One is we believe feedstock and circular feedstock are going to be key. 00:07:42.732 --> 00:07:44.552 This doesn't just mean bio based feedstock. 00:07:44.872 --> 00:07:48.692 Imagine there was oil that was going to be burned for fuel value. 00:07:48.742 --> 00:07:52.422 But what if you can reuse that oil for making chemicals, right? 00:07:52.692 --> 00:07:56.412 There's all these like ways of recirculating, recircularizing 00:07:56.442 --> 00:07:58.992 different feedstocks to actually drop carbon intensity. 00:07:59.002 --> 00:07:59.932 So that was number one. 00:08:00.412 --> 00:08:02.312 Number two was more efficient processes. 00:08:02.502 --> 00:08:05.152 So this goes back to our earlier conversation on yield. 00:08:05.437 --> 00:08:08.787 Where we believe that for us to have a decarbonized process, you 00:08:08.787 --> 00:08:11.997 need the highest yield that, you can technically, get and so that's 00:08:12.017 --> 00:08:13.887 where the enzyme technology came in. 00:08:14.337 --> 00:08:16.027 And the third was local supply chains. 00:08:16.037 --> 00:08:21.017 So we are quite convinced that being close to the customer and being close to 00:08:21.017 --> 00:08:26.077 your feedstock are really the things that are going to matter to this industry. 00:08:26.367 --> 00:08:26.537 Cause. 00:08:26.962 --> 00:08:29.282 Otherwise you end up being in the same problem as what the 00:08:29.282 --> 00:08:30.622 steel mill industry was, right? 00:08:30.642 --> 00:08:34.612 There was these massive steel factories that created steel that had to be 00:08:34.612 --> 00:08:38.332 shipped thousands of miles away to the end customer Until a company 00:08:38.332 --> 00:08:41.492 called Nucor comes along and says hey, what if we miniaturize this? 00:08:41.502 --> 00:08:45.572 What if we were able to make smaller versions of these factories and put them 00:08:45.572 --> 00:08:50.307 close to either where the feedstock is or where the customers consuming the product. 00:08:50.707 --> 00:08:53.657 So we, that's the same idea that we had was like, well, what if you can 00:08:53.677 --> 00:08:57.657 create chemical mini mills instead of creating giant massive facilities 00:08:57.937 --> 00:08:58.197 today? 00:08:58.677 --> 00:08:59.497 And we did that. 00:08:59.507 --> 00:09:00.957 So it isn't, yeah, exactly. 00:09:01.007 --> 00:09:01.207 Yeah. 00:09:01.776 --> 00:09:02.196 Victoria: That's cool. 00:09:02.196 --> 00:09:05.266 And in fact, what's interesting with this, and I've had this conversation 00:09:05.266 --> 00:09:09.116 with others, this idea of you know, when you look at the length of 00:09:09.116 --> 00:09:13.866 chemical supply chains so much of the emissions, the environmental 00:09:13.906 --> 00:09:16.296 impact is actually on logistics. 00:09:16.446 --> 00:09:16.706 Right? 00:09:16.706 --> 00:09:17.216 And so. 00:09:18.001 --> 00:09:20.411 The shipping industry, the logistics industry is doing a lot 00:09:20.411 --> 00:09:21.731 of work to try to decarbonize. 00:09:22.211 --> 00:09:27.501 But this idea of being, uh, uh, close to where, you know, 00:09:27.787 --> 00:09:28.737 Gaurab: I think close. 00:09:28.901 --> 00:09:32.281 Victoria: the consumption is, close to where the feedstock is, is unique. 00:09:32.291 --> 00:09:36.971 You know, I was involved in the very early stages of Shell Pennsylvania, which is a 00:09:36.971 --> 00:09:41.061 new asset that Shell has recently started up for polyethylene in, in Pennsylvania. 00:09:43.116 --> 00:09:46.656 Part of the, part of our logic and the value proposition was. 00:09:47.396 --> 00:09:50.676 Being close to the customers where the consumption was and close to the 00:09:50.676 --> 00:09:52.206 feedstock and cutting out logistics. 00:09:52.236 --> 00:09:56.806 Now that's on a massive scale because the other challenge that the chemical 00:09:56.806 --> 00:10:04.306 industry has, of course, is an unwavering view on what economies of scale 00:10:04.646 --> 00:10:05.576 are right. 00:10:05.656 --> 00:10:06.441 And this, and this. 00:10:06.521 --> 00:10:08.661 Bigger must be better. 00:10:08.681 --> 00:10:10.391 There must be more economies 00:10:10.451 --> 00:10:11.671 in a bigger asset. 00:10:11.671 --> 00:10:12.831 And so we see this today. 00:10:12.831 --> 00:10:15.981 We see certainly when you think about the ethylene value chain, the 00:10:15.991 --> 00:10:17.691 assets are getting larger and larger. 00:10:17.691 --> 00:10:21.881 And, and there's a bit of a competition to get to who can build 00:10:21.881 --> 00:10:24.211 the biggest, most efficient asset. 00:10:24.776 --> 00:10:27.586 Which may or may not be the long term solution. 00:10:28.092 --> 00:10:28.442 Gaurab: Yeah. 00:10:28.442 --> 00:10:31.282 And the thing is like, that's why I think it's going to be so hard 00:10:31.282 --> 00:10:32.652 for us to wrap our heads around. 00:10:32.652 --> 00:10:35.092 Like, what does decarbonization mean in this industry? 00:10:35.372 --> 00:10:37.032 Cause every product is so different, right? 00:10:37.212 --> 00:10:40.062 With ethylene, you actually might really want massive scale. 00:10:40.062 --> 00:10:42.382 Like to your point, that's where you get your economies of scale. 00:10:42.732 --> 00:10:45.952 The problem then becomes Are we pushing volume onto customers 00:10:45.972 --> 00:10:47.132 or are we pushing quality? 00:10:47.202 --> 00:10:47.422 Right? 00:10:47.422 --> 00:10:50.682 So if you look at like the way a lot of commodity chemicals are set 00:10:50.682 --> 00:10:52.282 up, it is a volume game, right? 00:10:52.282 --> 00:10:53.892 But by definition it's a volume game. 00:10:54.292 --> 00:10:56.872 But what if there's a different way of looking at how we deliver 00:10:56.872 --> 00:10:59.432 chemicals instead of saying, Hey, I want to push volume. 00:10:59.572 --> 00:11:02.642 What if there was a world where we could say, Hey, I want to push performance. 00:11:02.672 --> 00:11:07.312 I want to figure out how my product or my set of products can actually drive 00:11:07.677 --> 00:11:11.877 more profit for you instead of saying, Hey, I just want to sell you volume. 00:11:12.227 --> 00:11:13.597 That's where like Solugen is. 00:11:13.967 --> 00:11:17.387 I think we're growing up in this era where like chemicals as a service 00:11:17.417 --> 00:11:20.627 or like chemical leasing all these cool new ideas are starting to become 00:11:20.647 --> 00:11:24.117 hot and we're starting to realize that there are technologies that can 00:11:24.457 --> 00:11:28.007 be part of that story of delivering performance instead of just volume. 00:11:28.216 --> 00:11:30.046 Victoria: and, and, and that's honestly, that's the 00:11:30.046 --> 00:11:31.706 specialty chemical story, right? 00:11:31.706 --> 00:11:37.726 And that's where we're specialty chemical companies focus is less on less on 00:11:37.726 --> 00:11:39.986 volume, more on value and performance. 00:11:40.651 --> 00:11:45.661 So what you guys have obviously figured out an array of products that can 00:11:45.661 --> 00:11:47.701 be produced from your technologies. 00:11:47.701 --> 00:11:50.541 Are there any particular areas that you're focusing in on? 00:11:51.047 --> 00:11:51.427 Gaurab: Yeah. 00:11:51.427 --> 00:11:53.117 So the way that we do it we have. 00:11:53.807 --> 00:11:55.667 We have four core values at Solugen. 00:11:55.687 --> 00:12:00.267 One key core value is think big, act now, which is, like, have 00:12:00.267 --> 00:12:02.357 an insanely big dream, right? 00:12:02.357 --> 00:12:06.437 Never give up on that dream, but what are the, I call it the stair steps or the 00:12:06.447 --> 00:12:10.497 idea maze, where it's like, what are the little things we have to do incrementally? 00:12:10.807 --> 00:12:12.157 To get to that big vision. 00:12:12.447 --> 00:12:15.987 And so the way we look at it is we make products today. 00:12:15.987 --> 00:12:17.327 We make two key products. 00:12:17.327 --> 00:12:21.477 We started with hydrogen peroxide, as I said, but now really are the bulk 00:12:21.477 --> 00:12:25.807 of our revenues now coming from two different acids, a gluconic acid and 00:12:25.807 --> 00:12:30.727 glucaric acid, and what we've said here is that we don't just want to be a 00:12:30.727 --> 00:12:32.792 glucaric acid or gluconic acid company. 00:12:32.812 --> 00:12:36.392 We're doing that because we see it as a critical step in the way of 00:12:36.392 --> 00:12:40.832 decarbonization journey, where that work that we're doing to sell the gluconic 00:12:40.832 --> 00:12:43.182 and glucaric acid into these end markets. 00:12:43.182 --> 00:12:44.632 So wastewater treatment. 00:12:44.977 --> 00:12:46.187 Concrete agriculture. 00:12:46.187 --> 00:12:48.757 We sell the application, the performance benefits. 00:12:49.137 --> 00:12:54.127 We think those are critical to cashflow the platform so that we can go after the 00:12:54.127 --> 00:12:58.247 bigger meatier problems like plastics, but you're not going to do that overnight. 00:12:58.577 --> 00:13:01.657 So our approach has been like, I mean, it's not surprising. 00:13:01.677 --> 00:13:06.587 This is what people have done in the chemicals industry for years is we create 00:13:06.837 --> 00:13:11.367 products that have clear demand signal where we can have a performance advantage. 00:13:11.712 --> 00:13:14.842 And then once we can cash flow that product, we reinvest it into 00:13:14.842 --> 00:13:18.072 the platform so that we can go after the bigger molecules like 00:13:18.082 --> 00:13:19.662 plastics and things like that. 00:13:19.961 --> 00:13:20.201 Victoria: Yeah. 00:13:20.201 --> 00:13:23.461 You start, start small, sell out, sell up and keep 00:13:23.761 --> 00:13:24.031 Gaurab: relevant. 00:13:24.031 --> 00:13:24.341 Exactly. 00:13:24.572 --> 00:13:25.172 It's developing. 00:13:25.921 --> 00:13:26.211 Victoria: Cool. 00:13:26.451 --> 00:13:30.001 So where are you guys in the commercialization development stages? 00:13:30.001 --> 00:13:32.331 Because when I think about, It's cellulogen certainly been in 00:13:32.331 --> 00:13:35.961 the public eye for a long time, but I think the question is 00:13:35.961 --> 00:13:37.471 always, how commercial are you? 00:13:37.501 --> 00:13:39.621 So, so where would you guys categorize yourself? 00:13:40.212 --> 00:13:40.332 Gaurab: Yeah. 00:13:40.452 --> 00:13:42.772 the commercialization journey for us maybe I can just tell 00:13:42.772 --> 00:13:44.132 you very briefly how we started. 00:13:44.532 --> 00:13:47.772 We started selling peroxide to float spas. 00:13:47.782 --> 00:13:50.052 So float spas, this is bizarre. 00:13:50.437 --> 00:13:54.027 There's these like isolation tanks where you just sit and float 00:13:54.286 --> 00:13:54.846 Victoria: Oh yeah. 00:13:54.997 --> 00:13:56.267 Gaurab: 25 percent salt. 00:13:56.307 --> 00:13:57.717 They use peroxide to clean it up. 00:13:58.197 --> 00:14:00.967 So what we said was, Hey, our first product is peroxide. 00:14:00.977 --> 00:14:03.787 There's no way we're going to compete against the big industrial guys. 00:14:04.207 --> 00:14:06.587 So we started very commercial first. 00:14:06.927 --> 00:14:11.117 Just servicing a small niche group of customers the best we could. 00:14:11.407 --> 00:14:16.907 So we sold, we had 80 percent of the market share by 2018 or something, which 00:14:16.937 --> 00:14:20.457 it wasn't like a huge number, but it was a profitably large number for us. 00:14:20.917 --> 00:14:23.527 And so then that was really the philosophy with which we 00:14:23.527 --> 00:14:25.097 approached commercialization. 00:14:25.417 --> 00:14:29.457 Which is let's keep scaling up, but find customers that we can 00:14:29.487 --> 00:14:31.417 delight at every single scale. 00:14:31.467 --> 00:14:33.217 So we've got three facilities. 00:14:33.217 --> 00:14:35.267 Now we have a Houston facility. 00:14:35.267 --> 00:14:40.267 That's like our marquee facility that supports really in a 200 mile 00:14:40.267 --> 00:14:44.207 radius, the different customers and wastewater energy and construction. 00:14:44.637 --> 00:14:48.657 And we've got a second facility in West Texas, Lubbock, Texas. 00:14:49.102 --> 00:14:53.082 That facility was specifically set up just to service produced 00:14:53.082 --> 00:14:54.922 water and the energy sector. 00:14:55.052 --> 00:14:57.402 That's a huge problem that's happening is when you drill for 00:14:57.412 --> 00:15:00.382 oil, you're not just drilling for oil, you're getting a lot of water. 00:15:00.692 --> 00:15:04.752 And so for us, our products were suited just like the float spot to 00:15:04.752 --> 00:15:06.172 clean up that water really well. 00:15:06.492 --> 00:15:08.042 So that's where our second facility is. 00:15:08.052 --> 00:15:12.142 And now we just broke ground on our third commercial facility in Minnesota. 00:15:12.212 --> 00:15:14.852 That's right across the corn, uh, belt. 00:15:14.962 --> 00:15:16.922 So that's a perfect area for us to distribute. 00:15:16.922 --> 00:15:17.212 So I'd 00:15:17.212 --> 00:15:21.572 say where we are commercially, we've got three commercialized products at 00:15:21.632 --> 00:15:24.032 scale growing revenues fairly rapidly. 00:15:24.292 --> 00:15:27.322 But we want to keep launching products every 18 months using platform. 00:15:28.556 --> 00:15:28.826 Victoria: Cool. 00:15:28.996 --> 00:15:32.936 And there, and it sounds like they're primarily water treatment products. 00:15:32.936 --> 00:15:33.976 What else is that a good 00:15:33.976 --> 00:15:34.656 Gaurab: assessment? 00:15:35.296 --> 00:15:38.322 That's where we're focusing a lot of our attention because we see 00:15:38.322 --> 00:15:42.402 that as one of the fastest growing needs in the chemicals industry. 00:15:42.702 --> 00:15:45.982 Especially if you look at like what's happening with semiconductors and 00:15:45.982 --> 00:15:49.462 a lot of the manufacturing that's being on short in the U S we do need 00:15:49.462 --> 00:15:51.882 to think deeply about, well, how are we going to handle all that water? 00:15:52.212 --> 00:15:55.742 And so we'd rather have that be our chemistries than other chemistries. 00:15:55.832 --> 00:15:59.822 Victoria: The path to commercialization, as you know, is not straightforward. 00:15:59.882 --> 00:16:03.052 There's always been a lot of great scientists and innovators that 00:16:03.062 --> 00:16:06.862 have identified molecules that frankly never get out of the lab. 00:16:07.882 --> 00:16:09.812 And it's possible that you guys have some molecules that 00:16:09.812 --> 00:16:10.862 may never get out of the lab. 00:16:10.862 --> 00:16:11.742 So we'll see, right? 00:16:11.742 --> 00:16:13.382 I mean, I'm sure there's, that's possible. 00:16:13.652 --> 00:16:17.532 What's really the key enablers though, when you think about the enablers 00:16:17.542 --> 00:16:20.552 of commercialization for Solugen. 00:16:20.923 --> 00:16:22.983 Gaurab: So where we are again, we're small, right? 00:16:22.983 --> 00:16:26.303 Like we're still tiny company in the scheme of this industry. 00:16:26.603 --> 00:16:29.753 So the advantage we have is really getting to know what 00:16:29.753 --> 00:16:31.133 the customer's pain points are. 00:16:31.183 --> 00:16:34.363 And so we took motivation from polyethylene. 00:16:34.453 --> 00:16:39.203 So basically HDPE, it didn't start as, as we know, HDPE today, right? 00:16:39.203 --> 00:16:40.913 Like in every single product in the world. 00:16:41.328 --> 00:16:43.848 It started off in the modest hula hoop market. 00:16:44.058 --> 00:16:48.308 So basically, when it first kicked off, hula hoops were metal, right? 00:16:48.348 --> 00:16:49.028 They're heavy. 00:16:49.378 --> 00:16:51.018 It was hard to really get things going. 00:16:51.398 --> 00:16:55.528 And then the folks that made this HDPE said, well, what if 00:16:55.528 --> 00:16:56.588 we can make a lighter hula hoop? 00:16:56.828 --> 00:16:59.308 Customers loved it, and that's where they started. 00:16:59.318 --> 00:17:02.788 They started not at, hey, what's this like crazy great ambition? 00:17:02.798 --> 00:17:06.618 They started a pain point that they knew that their product could solve today. 00:17:07.033 --> 00:17:10.293 And then when we look back, HDP is one of the biggest successes 00:17:10.293 --> 00:17:11.683 of the chemicals industry, but it 00:17:11.683 --> 00:17:13.243 started off with a point, right? 00:17:13.243 --> 00:17:14.073 Like it was a toy. 00:17:14.483 --> 00:17:20.013 And so that's really like the, it's a much more, it's a slower strategy, right? 00:17:20.013 --> 00:17:23.613 Where it's like, I want to first make sure I'm solving the pain 00:17:23.613 --> 00:17:24.923 point for a hundred people. 00:17:25.308 --> 00:17:27.198 And then really nail that pain point. 00:17:27.228 --> 00:17:30.588 And then, then we can start going and attacking bigger and bigger problems. 00:17:30.598 --> 00:17:32.878 So that's really the commercialization framework. 00:17:32.878 --> 00:17:33.908 It's very simple. 00:17:33.958 --> 00:17:34.858 What is the problem? 00:17:35.208 --> 00:17:36.028 Can we solve it? 00:17:36.168 --> 00:17:38.448 If we can't solve it, what do we need to figure out how to solve it? 00:17:39.742 --> 00:17:40.032 Victoria: Cool. 00:17:40.252 --> 00:17:44.202 So, so you talk about Solugen being a very small company and yet you 00:17:44.202 --> 00:17:47.132 know, you've currently, I actually thought it was a billion dollar 00:17:47.142 --> 00:17:48.862 valuation, but you're at a 2 billion 00:17:49.658 --> 00:17:49.878 Gaurab: Yeah. 00:17:50.962 --> 00:17:52.862 Victoria: valuation, uh, significant venture capital 00:17:52.862 --> 00:17:55.412 investment, lots of media attention. 00:17:56.882 --> 00:17:57.862 How do you reconcile this? 00:17:58.072 --> 00:17:58.572 I think it's, 00:17:58.778 --> 00:17:58.988 Gaurab: Yeah. 00:17:59.742 --> 00:18:01.582 Victoria: you know, how does a small company have a 2 billion 00:18:01.842 --> 00:18:03.242 valuation will be one question. 00:18:03.242 --> 00:18:07.306 how do How do you grow into this expectation? 00:18:07.316 --> 00:18:10.656 And I guess maybe when do you grow into this expectation? 00:18:10.826 --> 00:18:10.946 Gaurab: Yeah. 00:18:11.152 --> 00:18:15.972 This is where, um, we take a very, you know, like I agree that there's a lot 00:18:15.972 --> 00:18:20.752 of, a lot of media attention on Solugen, because people want this to succeed. 00:18:20.752 --> 00:18:20.932 Right. 00:18:20.932 --> 00:18:24.012 People want cleaner chemistry, but you have to divorce like what people 00:18:24.012 --> 00:18:25.612 want with what is best for business. 00:18:25.622 --> 00:18:27.392 So like what's best for our business 00:18:27.742 --> 00:18:29.222 is credibility and proof points. 00:18:29.322 --> 00:18:32.472 We have this phrase called the two great filters at Solugen. 00:18:32.712 --> 00:18:35.972 The first great filter is, does your technology even scale? 00:18:36.062 --> 00:18:37.012 Is it real? 00:18:37.212 --> 00:18:37.512 Right. 00:18:37.792 --> 00:18:41.472 And so we've crossed that filter with, I think, pretty good grades. 00:18:41.942 --> 00:18:44.082 Now the second filter we're coming to is great. 00:18:44.142 --> 00:18:46.312 Does this thing scale into a massive business? 00:18:46.712 --> 00:18:48.132 That's the second great filter. 00:18:48.582 --> 00:18:50.202 And where we are on that, I think. 00:18:50.757 --> 00:18:54.937 The biggest win for us, actually we announced it today, was the Department 00:18:54.937 --> 00:18:56.807 of Energy's loan program, office loan. 00:18:57.287 --> 00:19:02.567 So this one is, this was a 20 month diligence process where we had 00:19:02.567 --> 00:19:07.667 the world's leading experts in our technology and markets come in and 00:19:07.717 --> 00:19:10.177 really look under the hood at Solugen. 00:19:10.227 --> 00:19:14.282 Every single customer contract, every single operating parameter on the 00:19:14.282 --> 00:19:16.052 plant, it was diligence to death. 00:19:16.462 --> 00:19:19.932 This was what we consider our second great filter, which was, okay, great. 00:19:19.932 --> 00:19:22.122 We know the technology works, but does it work? 00:19:22.122 --> 00:19:25.532 And does it scale up in such a way that we can build a massive business out of it? 00:19:26.212 --> 00:19:29.832 The success of getting that department of energy loan program office loan. 00:19:29.852 --> 00:19:33.062 This is the one that Tesla got for the Fremont facility that's 00:19:33.062 --> 00:19:34.482 really when Tesla took off, right? 00:19:34.502 --> 00:19:34.902 Is if you 00:19:34.902 --> 00:19:35.532 remember it. 00:19:35.857 --> 00:19:37.507 That was their inflection point. 00:19:37.797 --> 00:19:41.937 I suspect we're in a similar inflection point right now, where, because we got 00:19:41.937 --> 00:19:46.047 this loan and we're executing on this plant, I do believe that there is a chance 00:19:46.047 --> 00:19:47.747 that Solugen will be a pretty big company. 00:19:47.807 --> 00:19:50.187 I don't know how big, but I think that there's something 00:19:50.187 --> 00:19:51.817 here that no one else has. 00:19:52.167 --> 00:19:55.152 And that gives me the confidence to think through that there are markets 00:19:55.212 --> 00:19:56.642 that we can go in very quickly. 00:19:57.121 --> 00:19:57.461 Victoria: Yeah. 00:19:57.502 --> 00:19:59.641 So first of all congratulations on getting that. 00:19:59.641 --> 00:20:03.701 I know that's there was a lot of work for you and your team to, to get the 00:20:03.701 --> 00:20:07.851 loan and not just, I guess, and it's not just about getting that DOE loan. 00:20:07.851 --> 00:20:09.461 It's what it signifies. 00:20:09.761 --> 00:20:10.301 Right? 00:20:10.922 --> 00:20:14.352 Gaurab: It's the, it's basically that stamp that says like, 00:20:14.352 --> 00:20:15.642 wow, this is real, right? 00:20:15.642 --> 00:20:20.782 These are real hardcore projects that have real return on invested capitals and 00:20:21.892 --> 00:20:25.292 that means we're no longer that startup, that's bright eyed and bushy tailed. 00:20:25.292 --> 00:20:27.192 We have a lot of work to do now. 00:20:27.252 --> 00:20:30.882 Like we have to chop a lot of wood to get to where we want to get. 00:20:31.521 --> 00:20:34.121 Victoria: So you're in the process of building the Marshall facility, which 00:20:34.121 --> 00:20:35.741 I guess is what the funding is for. 00:20:36.091 --> 00:20:39.871 What's the timing of startup when you think about that? 00:20:40.312 --> 00:20:40.742 Gaurab: Yeah. 00:20:40.742 --> 00:20:44.682 So right now we're pegged for a first half of 2025. 00:20:44.747 --> 00:20:48.387 However the way the DOE loan works, there's like a lot of, 00:20:48.577 --> 00:20:50.117 it's a very proper loan process. 00:20:50.117 --> 00:20:50.337 Right. 00:20:50.367 --> 00:20:53.497 And that, if you know these loan processes, they can sometimes be a little 00:20:53.497 --> 00:20:54.917 slow just from an administrative side. 00:20:55.207 --> 00:21:00.927 So we're anticipating a 2025 first half, but depending on how the DOE 00:21:01.347 --> 00:21:05.377 decides to like work with us, it could extend to later in 2025 as well. 00:21:06.191 --> 00:21:07.141 Victoria: Why Minnesota? 00:21:07.301 --> 00:21:09.641 So in fact, when I first talked to somebody from your team, 00:21:09.641 --> 00:21:10.561 they said the Marshall plan. 00:21:10.561 --> 00:21:11.851 I was thinking Marshall, Texas. 00:21:12.141 --> 00:21:12.841 I don't know. 00:21:12.851 --> 00:21:13.681 Marshall, Minnesota. 00:21:13.681 --> 00:21:15.391 So why Minnesota? 00:21:15.431 --> 00:21:19.936 Cause that's not a typical place for a chemical facility. 00:21:20.356 --> 00:21:21.966 Although obviously we've got 3M 00:21:21.986 --> 00:21:22.336 Gaurab: Yeah. 00:21:22.336 --> 00:21:22.516 Right. 00:21:22.516 --> 00:21:23.026 Yeah. 00:21:23.135 --> 00:21:28.005 It's not where you, yeah, it's exactly like, it's a great question because 00:21:28.985 --> 00:21:32.545 the way we thought about this was goes back to our pillars of decarbonization, 00:21:32.785 --> 00:21:37.515 which was one is feedstock, circular feedstock, two, can we be in a 00:21:37.515 --> 00:21:40.575 place where our process actually shines in terms of the efficiency? 00:21:41.115 --> 00:21:44.245 And then three, can we be close to or near end customers? 00:21:44.585 --> 00:21:45.235 And so if you look at. 00:21:45.475 --> 00:21:46.465 Marshall, Minnesota. 00:21:46.475 --> 00:21:47.895 We did a full bake off, right? 00:21:47.895 --> 00:21:50.835 We looked at other areas in the Midwest as well. 00:21:51.125 --> 00:21:55.025 We ended up deciding on Marshall because it was right across 00:21:55.025 --> 00:21:56.695 a corn processing facility. 00:21:56.725 --> 00:21:57.895 So our feedstock is sugar. 00:21:58.305 --> 00:22:00.765 So we partnered up with ADM to build a plant. 00:22:00.825 --> 00:22:04.485 There's literally a pipeline of sugar that comes from their plant to our site. 00:22:04.925 --> 00:22:09.125 And on top of that, the conditions, like it's actually slightly cooler. 00:22:09.445 --> 00:22:12.885 There during the summer months, which is really good for enzymes, like enzymes 00:22:12.925 --> 00:22:14.795 love when it's a little bit colder. 00:22:15.205 --> 00:22:17.615 And then the third piece is a lot of the customers are there. 00:22:17.615 --> 00:22:22.105 So if you look at the agriculture sector wastewater is a huge one in agriculture. 00:22:22.135 --> 00:22:24.945 A lot of people don't realize a lot of the farms and things. 00:22:24.965 --> 00:22:28.025 These are some of the biggest wastewater treatment customers in the world. 00:22:28.395 --> 00:22:30.195 And so that's where we, we focused in. 00:22:30.195 --> 00:22:33.645 So it hit those three pillars of our, of our framework very well. 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:38.049 There's something to be said, just like more on a personal level. 00:22:38.049 --> 00:22:41.979 There's like a, in Minnesota and in the Midwest, there's still 00:22:41.979 --> 00:22:44.929 that culture of like, let's do it, the American dream is real. 00:22:44.949 --> 00:22:46.939 Can we build faster than anyone else in the world? 00:22:47.539 --> 00:22:48.839 That pride is still there. 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:50.239 And it's, it's awesome to be around. 00:22:51.268 --> 00:22:51.648 Victoria: Yeah. 00:22:51.838 --> 00:22:53.378 Well, and so that's actually a good point. 00:22:53.388 --> 00:22:57.618 Like if I think about workforce, so, you know, I'm actually 00:22:57.618 --> 00:22:58.908 from, I'm from Illinois. 00:22:58.918 --> 00:23:04.178 So it, somewhat adjacent to Minnesota corn country grew up on a small farm, 00:23:04.598 --> 00:23:08.718 uh, surrounded by farm fields and now a few solar farms, which is always 00:23:08.718 --> 00:23:11.348 an interesting thing when we see, traditional farms get converted., 00:23:11.364 --> 00:23:12.444 Gaurab: Yeah. 00:23:12.558 --> 00:23:14.248 Victoria: as, you know, pros and cons there. 00:23:14.528 --> 00:23:19.978 But one of the challenges that many chemical operators talk about is 00:23:19.978 --> 00:23:24.658 really just workforce, having the right workforce, not just to build 00:23:24.658 --> 00:23:26.828 the plant, but to operate the plant. 00:23:27.348 --> 00:23:28.848 How do you see this happening? 00:23:28.858 --> 00:23:32.988 Number one, how, I guess to the extent that you can tell us, How many 00:23:32.988 --> 00:23:34.708 people do you expect to employ there? 00:23:34.968 --> 00:23:37.628 And how has your assessment of workforce been? 00:23:38.164 --> 00:23:38.444 Gaurab: Yeah. 00:23:38.444 --> 00:23:39.894 So this is the biggest question. 00:23:39.994 --> 00:23:42.754 Just as an aside, like, I think that's going to be the bottleneck for 00:23:42.754 --> 00:23:44.224 all this climate technology stuff. 00:23:44.254 --> 00:23:47.124 I think it's amazing technologies, but no one cares. 00:23:47.124 --> 00:23:47.724 You can't make it. 00:23:47.724 --> 00:23:49.224 You need people to make this stuff. 00:23:49.244 --> 00:23:51.584 So this is where we spent a lot of time. 00:23:51.594 --> 00:23:53.424 So the Marshall site. 00:23:53.784 --> 00:23:56.014 Construction wise will be about 200 people. 00:23:56.094 --> 00:23:59.314 Steady state will be roughly around 100, 60, 100 people. 00:23:59.704 --> 00:24:01.524 So it's not small, but it's not big either. 00:24:01.524 --> 00:24:02.504 So it's a perfect microcosm. 00:24:03.194 --> 00:24:06.384 But what we did was we invested heavily in workforce training. 00:24:06.444 --> 00:24:11.104 So we actually have a program in Houston where we bring, it could be a farmer. 00:24:11.114 --> 00:24:14.924 It could be honestly anyone that has that mechanical aptitude. 00:24:15.004 --> 00:24:16.224 We bring them into Houston. 00:24:16.254 --> 00:24:17.714 They do a six month rotation. 00:24:18.034 --> 00:24:21.804 To our plant in Houston with the operators, and so they learn everything 00:24:21.884 --> 00:24:23.814 about the operation and the culture. 00:24:23.924 --> 00:24:24.584 So like, that's the 00:24:24.584 --> 00:24:26.844 second part that's like just as important. 00:24:26.844 --> 00:24:28.934 It's like, what is that culture vibe? 00:24:28.944 --> 00:24:32.914 What's the cadence that like we move at having them do that training program 00:24:32.914 --> 00:24:35.594 for six months has been really valuable. 00:24:35.594 --> 00:24:36.434 And so we do that. 00:24:36.749 --> 00:24:40.059 We actually have a partnership with some of the local community colleges 00:24:40.169 --> 00:24:43.339 in Houston and in Marshall, where we just have students come through 00:24:43.539 --> 00:24:47.309 and we have them trained through our biomanufacturing program, just to get a 00:24:47.309 --> 00:24:49.019 sense of this is not that complicated. 00:24:49.029 --> 00:24:53.199 Yeah, it's like new technology, but at the end of the day, it's just vessels, right? 00:24:53.199 --> 00:24:55.039 Like, we could figure out vessels. 00:24:55.389 --> 00:24:59.219 The thing that's hard to figure out is, Reprogramming cultural mindset. 00:24:59.219 --> 00:25:03.519 So if you look at what traditional, a lot of traditional, like chemical companies 00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:05.129 are, have been around for a while. 00:25:05.139 --> 00:25:05.799 So there's never been 00:25:05.799 --> 00:25:08.219 this urgency, you know, it's been steady state. 00:25:08.219 --> 00:25:10.259 Let's keep the things going, which isn't how it should be. 00:25:10.749 --> 00:25:14.239 However, we're, we're in a different challenge where we're competing, 00:25:14.239 --> 00:25:17.769 not just on the technology, but also establishing ourselves commercially, 00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:20.469 which means the culture has to be slightly different. 00:25:20.519 --> 00:25:22.119 And that starts with the operators. 00:25:22.439 --> 00:25:26.939 The operators have to have this, I call it like this Relentlessly resourceful. 00:25:27.019 --> 00:25:30.879 That's kind of the description I have for it, which is like, something's going 00:25:30.879 --> 00:25:33.059 to break, something's not going to work. 00:25:33.219 --> 00:25:36.549 There's going to be a miscommunication no matter what, what are you going to do? 00:25:36.729 --> 00:25:38.179 I don't care that the problem is there. 00:25:38.409 --> 00:25:39.329 How are we going to solve it? 00:25:39.349 --> 00:25:43.389 So like really getting operators trained in that mindset of we're going to solve 00:25:43.399 --> 00:25:47.639 these problems, even if it's like a technically very challenging, which is 00:25:47.639 --> 00:25:50.989 different than just learning how to operate a yeah, 00:25:51.078 --> 00:25:51.718 Victoria: it is, 00:25:51.718 --> 00:25:52.088 different. 00:25:52.088 --> 00:25:56.268 And it's interesting because 30 years ago when a lot of the chemical technologies 00:25:56.268 --> 00:25:59.728 that we take for granted, we're starting up, there was that whole resourcefulness, 00:25:59.728 --> 00:26:02.138 like you just have to figure out it's not going to be operating 00:26:02.138 --> 00:26:05.048 at 95% it's operating at 70%. 00:26:05.078 --> 00:26:07.358 You've got to fix it and adapt and figure it out. 00:26:07.378 --> 00:26:09.218 And and so I think some of that was there. 00:26:09.218 --> 00:26:12.118 And then, it evolves out because you're trying to standardize 00:26:12.128 --> 00:26:16.488 processes, yeah, ensure that you have steady state operations, et cetera. 00:26:16.508 --> 00:26:17.168 Gaurab: yeah, yeah, yeah, 00:26:17.168 --> 00:26:19.168 Victoria: I love this relentlessly resourceful. 00:26:19.168 --> 00:26:19.928 I think that's great. 00:26:19.958 --> 00:26:24.998 how you balance though, being. 00:26:25.683 --> 00:26:29.823 Hey, I think I'm solving a problem, but as it turns out, what I'm doing is 00:26:29.963 --> 00:26:33.553 screwing something else up where I don't have the authority to make that change. 00:26:33.913 --> 00:26:37.803 How do you find that balance between giving people enough leeway to be 00:26:37.803 --> 00:26:43.203 resourceful, but also keeping them a little bit contained because there needs 00:26:43.213 --> 00:26:46.383 to be approval processes that needs to fit with the rest of things, et cetera. 00:26:46.989 --> 00:26:50.339 Gaurab: I can maybe just give you like a history of what we've gone 00:26:50.339 --> 00:26:53.759 through and you can see kind of how we've learned where we are today. 00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:55.489 So we started as kind of like. 00:26:55.834 --> 00:27:00.834 I'd say like a very much more, chaotic, I guess, when we started the company. 00:27:01.154 --> 00:27:04.004 Safety was always number one, so it was a lot easier. 00:27:04.274 --> 00:27:07.554 It's easier to orient towards safety in the early days because 00:27:07.554 --> 00:27:08.874 there's not as many people. 00:27:09.304 --> 00:27:12.144 As we started to grow, we went the, we swung the other way. 00:27:12.144 --> 00:27:12.964 We said, you know what? 00:27:13.134 --> 00:27:14.334 We're going to go process heavy. 00:27:14.344 --> 00:27:15.964 We're going to process everything. 00:27:16.244 --> 00:27:18.814 Everything is going to be an SOP, et cetera, et cetera, right? 00:27:19.139 --> 00:27:21.299 And that slowed everything down to a halt. 00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:24.749 Like it just nothing because we thought we were playing corporate, right? 00:27:24.749 --> 00:27:26.039 We are, we're a company now. 00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:29.189 Like we have to have an SOP for, you know, X, Y, Z. 00:27:29.579 --> 00:27:33.989 Now we realize it's 60 40, where it's like 60% of the processes 00:27:33.989 --> 00:27:35.219 are absolutely critical. 00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:39.649 40% of the processes should be malleable because they don't have 00:27:39.649 --> 00:27:43.469 direct impact on safety outcomes for my people, they don't have direct 00:27:43.469 --> 00:27:45.749 outcomes for throughput or yield. 00:27:45.959 --> 00:27:48.539 Those are the areas that we should be experimenting heavily with. 00:27:48.884 --> 00:27:53.234 That's 60 percent of process that we need for safety culture that we cannot change. 00:27:53.284 --> 00:27:56.214 And so that's kind of how we've come to this, that's part of the training is 00:27:56.214 --> 00:28:00.744 like, what is part of that 60 percent and what is part of that 40 percent? 00:28:00.894 --> 00:28:01.444 Victoria: Makes sense. 00:28:01.628 --> 00:28:01.988 Makes sense. 00:28:01.988 --> 00:28:04.468 And you have to find the balance, uh, to, to 00:28:04.664 --> 00:28:05.974 Gaurab: Yeah, we messed it up. 00:28:06.304 --> 00:28:07.524 We messed it up a few times. 00:28:07.734 --> 00:28:12.084 Thankfully, no safety issues at all, but still it's just an efficiency thing. 00:28:12.084 --> 00:28:13.959 Yeah 00:28:14.048 --> 00:28:18.008 Victoria: mean, obviously you guys are learning something new every day, right? 00:28:20.814 --> 00:28:23.904 Gaurab: and I think that's, you know, going back to like what is 00:28:23.904 --> 00:28:25.774 relentlessly resourceful at Solugen. 00:28:25.794 --> 00:28:28.154 It's this idea of like knowing how to learn quick. 00:28:28.544 --> 00:28:28.704 Yes. 00:28:29.268 --> 00:28:29.528 Victoria: Yeah. 00:28:29.818 --> 00:28:30.108 Great. 00:28:30.598 --> 00:28:33.298 So let's talk a little bit about customers and markets and you touched 00:28:33.298 --> 00:28:37.818 on this, I think a bit in terms of, have you thought about it, but how have you 00:28:37.828 --> 00:28:40.408 really engaged your customers really 00:28:40.408 --> 00:28:40.468 Gaurab: Yeah, 00:28:40.468 --> 00:28:42.418 Victoria: gain learnings and create buy in? 00:28:42.924 --> 00:28:45.904 Gaurab: so that's, that was like the toughest thing in the beginning, right? 00:28:45.914 --> 00:28:47.934 Cause like we're an entity that no one knows. 00:28:48.234 --> 00:28:53.094 So what we did was we took a very consultative approach where like, 00:28:53.094 --> 00:28:56.144 just forget that we're selling a chemical just for a second. 00:28:56.144 --> 00:28:59.024 Like I actually tell the team, like, that's not what we're doing. 00:28:59.034 --> 00:29:00.084 We're not selling chemicals. 00:29:00.424 --> 00:29:03.004 Focus in on like, do we understand the customer's process? 00:29:03.654 --> 00:29:07.854 From beginning to end, uh, in terms of how they're actually using products. 00:29:08.034 --> 00:29:09.184 I'll give you an example. 00:29:09.644 --> 00:29:12.534 With Champion X, a Champion X is a great partner of ours. 00:29:12.574 --> 00:29:13.894 They're in the energy sector. 00:29:14.234 --> 00:29:15.204 They used to be. 00:29:15.529 --> 00:29:16.029 What was it? 00:29:16.089 --> 00:29:21.394 Ecolab Nalco Ecolab, and they spun out as Ecolab subsidiary. 00:29:21.514 --> 00:29:24.804 Then they became Aperture, and now they're ChampionX, and they just got 00:29:24.854 --> 00:29:28.514 a buyout offer from Schlumberger for seven billion, something crazy, right? 00:29:28.964 --> 00:29:33.334 So what we did, yeah, what we did with them was, We said, first, let's go visit 00:29:33.334 --> 00:29:37.304 their plants instead of going and saying, Hey, let's talk to the business people 00:29:37.304 --> 00:29:40.514 and the sales guys, let's first talk to the people who are in the operating 00:29:40.514 --> 00:29:44.524 line and figure out where their pain points along their day to day workflow. 00:29:44.524 --> 00:29:49.084 So when we looked at how they're actually using the chemicals and blending it 00:29:49.084 --> 00:29:50.254 and creating their final product. 00:29:50.794 --> 00:29:54.604 It wasn't so much about the sustainability or the price or any of this stuff. 00:29:54.914 --> 00:29:57.224 It was about operator reliability. 00:29:57.264 --> 00:30:00.974 So the problem was the product that they were using wasn't our product. 00:30:00.974 --> 00:30:02.054 It was a competitor's product. 00:30:02.304 --> 00:30:03.474 It was in a powder form. 00:30:03.844 --> 00:30:06.504 And the problem is the spike in demand for this product 00:30:06.534 --> 00:30:08.034 was in June, July, and August. 00:30:08.264 --> 00:30:09.844 It's some of the hottest months of the year. 00:30:10.204 --> 00:30:14.694 And if you're dealing with powders in that heat as a operator, 00:30:14.694 --> 00:30:15.864 you have to wear a respirator. 00:30:16.304 --> 00:30:19.554 So you wear a respirator and you know, a hundred something degree heat 00:30:19.564 --> 00:30:21.434 to deal with this powder product. 00:30:21.454 --> 00:30:22.664 And it's just a nightmare. 00:30:22.974 --> 00:30:24.314 And so it hits their efficiency. 00:30:24.314 --> 00:30:25.914 There's a lot of downstream effects. 00:30:26.214 --> 00:30:29.014 So what we said was, can we solve this operator's problem? 00:30:29.164 --> 00:30:31.694 Forget like what our technology and all this stuff. 00:30:32.014 --> 00:30:35.284 So all we did was say, Hey, we can make that product, but we can make it 00:30:35.284 --> 00:30:37.354 a liquid and we can ship it to you. 00:30:37.714 --> 00:30:41.154 At whatever dose you need so you can put it in your lines. 00:30:41.294 --> 00:30:45.034 All of a sudden the operators were like, please, yes, thank you. 00:30:45.044 --> 00:30:46.394 Like, this is all we want. 00:30:46.804 --> 00:30:50.584 And so that was an example of, it wasn't about the amazingness of the 00:30:50.584 --> 00:30:52.774 technology or whatever about the team. 00:30:52.834 --> 00:30:56.414 It was the team's ability to say, Hey, there's a key bottleneck that no one's 00:30:56.424 --> 00:31:00.384 talking about in this process because the sales guys aren't on the process for it. 00:31:00.384 --> 00:31:00.734 It's just the 00:31:00.734 --> 00:31:03.334 nature of a lot of these businesses and to no fault of their own. 00:31:03.669 --> 00:31:07.529 But if you force yourself to actually get into the process and the operations, 00:31:07.589 --> 00:31:11.339 you find so many more opportunities to actually introduce solutions. 00:31:11.429 --> 00:31:14.519 So that's how we'd like to go about doing commercialization 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:16.849 is much more consultative. 00:31:17.089 --> 00:31:20.029 And I guess understanding the pain point deeply. 00:31:20.953 --> 00:31:21.223 Victoria: Yeah. 00:31:21.263 --> 00:31:21.783 I love that. 00:31:21.783 --> 00:31:24.683 And, and in fact, and I talked to folks about this, that. 00:31:24.743 --> 00:31:29.343 A lot of times the chemical industry has been trained to sell on spec. 00:31:29.903 --> 00:31:30.863 spec Right? 00:31:30.863 --> 00:31:33.013 We all value our specification. 00:31:33.013 --> 00:31:35.313 Does it meet the quality target? 00:31:35.313 --> 00:31:36.823 It's got the right density. 00:31:36.833 --> 00:31:41.113 It does whatever, and that's great, but specifications are easily replicated. 00:31:41.783 --> 00:31:44.953 But getting to the point of understanding, well, what else? 00:31:44.973 --> 00:31:49.653 What are your customers value about what you're delivering, about how they're 00:31:49.653 --> 00:31:52.493 using the product, about consistency. 00:31:52.783 --> 00:31:57.083 In your case, you've discovered something about the form that the product comes in. 00:31:57.483 --> 00:32:00.973 Uh, that's where differentiation and value occurs. 00:32:00.983 --> 00:32:03.833 It's not, frankly, it's not in the product itself. 00:32:04.099 --> 00:32:04.889 Gaurab: Exactly. 00:32:04.889 --> 00:32:07.999 And so like, it's, that's what I love about this industry 00:32:08.249 --> 00:32:09.549 and I saw my dad do this too. 00:32:09.549 --> 00:32:12.349 So my dad started an oil fields chemical company. 00:32:12.699 --> 00:32:15.779 And so I, I was there every weekend blending product for them. 00:32:15.869 --> 00:32:19.659 And what we saw was people only cared about how this product 00:32:19.659 --> 00:32:21.139 affected their lives, right? 00:32:21.159 --> 00:32:23.409 The people that were using it, the people that had the buy in. 00:32:23.779 --> 00:32:26.749 What are the things about this product that will make them happy 00:32:26.809 --> 00:32:29.439 and even get them a bonus like what's going to make them succeed? 00:32:29.799 --> 00:32:33.279 So that's like really the framework that we've had at Solugen was like 00:32:33.289 --> 00:32:37.364 forget about the volume that we have to produce, forget the product, just go in 00:32:37.364 --> 00:32:39.334 and figure out what is that pain point. 00:32:39.394 --> 00:32:43.994 And so a few other examples, I'll be brief on this one, but like wastewater, 00:32:44.044 --> 00:32:48.484 we found a huge customer who had a big problem because they had to bring in like 00:32:48.484 --> 00:32:52.794 a parasitic acid into their facility, which is a lot of work to handle parasitic 00:32:52.844 --> 00:32:57.224 acid, but they ran through so much of this stuff that it became a huge headache 00:32:57.294 --> 00:32:59.344 to deal with the logistics of the PAA. 00:32:59.344 --> 00:32:59.364 Okay. 00:32:59.594 --> 00:33:03.014 So what we said was, well, what if we had a synergist that you can 00:33:03.024 --> 00:33:07.874 use in your system that allows you to less, use less PAA and a half 00:33:07.914 --> 00:33:09.894 less to worry about the safety. 00:33:10.204 --> 00:33:13.124 And that turned out to be a value proposition that in itself. 00:33:13.174 --> 00:33:16.944 And so like every case is unique in this market because we're going and 00:33:16.944 --> 00:33:20.664 solving that and problem, but it turns out there are certain patterns 00:33:20.724 --> 00:33:22.224 that just keep repeating themselves. 00:33:22.274 --> 00:33:22.834 And so that's, 00:33:22.864 --> 00:33:23.244 that's how we, 00:33:23.253 --> 00:33:23.813 Victoria: I mean, that's great. 00:33:23.813 --> 00:33:27.083 And in order to scale, you have to find and leverage those patterns. 00:33:27.084 --> 00:33:27.684 Gaurab: exactly. 00:33:27.684 --> 00:33:29.924 And so that's what I think we've been successful at is. 00:33:30.329 --> 00:33:32.799 Going slow in the beginning to really understand, like, 00:33:32.829 --> 00:33:34.069 where are the real pain points. 00:33:34.389 --> 00:33:38.889 Once we can identify the top four true value propositions of products, that's how 00:33:38.889 --> 00:33:40.729 we go scale that product line in that way. 00:33:42.478 --> 00:33:42.898 Victoria: Makes sense. 00:33:43.448 --> 00:33:46.228 So Let's talk about people and teams. 00:33:46.228 --> 00:33:48.238 And you've talked a little bit about the culture. 00:33:48.628 --> 00:33:53.428 Um, and I've worked with companies that have, gone from technology to 00:33:53.428 --> 00:33:57.748 commercialization and there's always an evolution, but when you think about 00:33:58.098 --> 00:34:01.498 your people, how has your team evolved? 00:34:02.459 --> 00:34:02.969 Gaurab: yeah. 00:34:03.689 --> 00:34:04.679 Man, so much. 00:34:05.389 --> 00:34:06.019 So much. 00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:10.549 I think I can reflect on this kind of as part of like me and Sean's 00:34:10.589 --> 00:34:12.329 growth journey as founders as 00:34:12.329 --> 00:34:12.599 well. 00:34:13.069 --> 00:34:16.449 In the beginning we were like, we're scientists we're not, the commercial 00:34:16.449 --> 00:34:19.699 guys, we're going to bring in like really seasoned commercial people 00:34:19.699 --> 00:34:23.889 to do this, which very seasoned in like a late stage company is not the 00:34:23.889 --> 00:34:26.179 same as success in the early stages. 00:34:26.749 --> 00:34:30.839 So in the early days, we just brought in a lot of folks that you know, just 00:34:30.869 --> 00:34:34.139 had experience at big companies thinking that, like, they'll help us create 00:34:34.139 --> 00:34:35.309 the process and things like that. 00:34:35.659 --> 00:34:39.869 What ended up happening was it was a cultural disconnect between the problem 00:34:39.889 --> 00:34:44.399 that the customer was facing, what we saw and what actually needed to happen 00:34:44.459 --> 00:34:46.449 commercially for the customers to succeed. 00:34:46.859 --> 00:34:49.659 So what we were too far apart from the end result. 00:34:49.769 --> 00:34:52.189 Now where we are culturally, Sean and I are involved. 00:34:52.604 --> 00:34:56.924 Largely in most aspects of the business, not in a micro management type of way. 00:34:56.954 --> 00:35:00.444 We have this phrase we call miso management, which is like, we're 00:35:00.444 --> 00:35:04.004 not the 30, 000 foot managers, but we're not going to micromanage you. 00:35:04.114 --> 00:35:05.524 I want to know great, this is 00:35:05.574 --> 00:35:08.724 the strategy of what we're doing, but what is, are we aligned 00:35:08.724 --> 00:35:09.774 on why these are the goal? 00:35:10.274 --> 00:35:12.834 What I found is once you build a team around the alignment piece. 00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:15.029 Magic starts to happen, right? 00:35:15.029 --> 00:35:18.699 Because when you don't know why you're doing something, or if you aren't sure if 00:35:18.699 --> 00:35:22.849 this is aligned with what your team wants, you end up going in the wrong direction. 00:35:22.879 --> 00:35:27.879 So now what we've built is really a team that feeds on this alignment idea, which 00:35:27.879 --> 00:35:29.559 is okay, we're doing these experiments. 00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:31.029 We're running this, commercial test. 00:35:31.259 --> 00:35:32.639 Is it aligned with the goal of the company? 00:35:32.999 --> 00:35:34.009 If yes, keep going. 00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:35.869 If no, we have to pivot away from that. 00:35:36.169 --> 00:35:38.519 So it's like this constant, like readjustment. 00:35:38.899 --> 00:35:41.179 And so the people that we bring onto the company now. 00:35:41.509 --> 00:35:47.659 We overemphasize this idea of like being quickly adaptable to changes and not 00:35:47.699 --> 00:35:51.429 getting emotional about Hey, I've been working on this for a year yet, but the 00:35:51.429 --> 00:35:55.138 customer's needs have changed, so we have to kind of go where the customer is going. 00:35:55.279 --> 00:35:55.439 So 00:35:55.439 --> 00:35:55.609 yeah, 00:35:55.669 --> 00:35:57.529 that's, that's a very different mindset for us. 00:35:58.813 --> 00:36:01.943 Victoria: And what's the demographics of your company when you think 00:36:01.943 --> 00:36:06.948 about, um, if you even just think about age or years of experience. 00:36:06.958 --> 00:36:09.358 How, what does that look like for you guys? 00:36:09.889 --> 00:36:11.649 Gaurab: So I did this analysis. 00:36:11.679 --> 00:36:14.639 We do a biweekly people kind of analysis. 00:36:14.649 --> 00:36:17.059 So I did this very recently, bimodal. 00:36:17.099 --> 00:36:19.243 So basically what you have HY is. 00:36:19.554 --> 00:36:23.564 You've got really a lot of folks, like straight out of like graduate school or 00:36:23.564 --> 00:36:27.204 five years in their career, really kind of young and hungry figuring things out. 00:36:27.534 --> 00:36:29.634 And then you've got Ad Solugen experts. 00:36:29.644 --> 00:36:33.204 So people who are just super experts in the field. 00:36:33.494 --> 00:36:37.254 And what we found is like, we'd like this mentorship concept, which is we 00:36:37.254 --> 00:36:41.424 pair the people who have the experience with the people who are newer so 00:36:41.424 --> 00:36:44.354 that they can figure out that you don't have to figure everything out. 00:36:44.464 --> 00:36:46.684 Like some of this stuff has already been solved for you. 00:36:46.744 --> 00:36:47.054 Right? 00:36:47.344 --> 00:36:51.044 And so that pairing, it's kind of like a reflection of our grad school 00:36:51.044 --> 00:36:55.404 days where in grad school, you start a fresh PhD, but you've got like the 00:36:55.444 --> 00:36:59.284 postdocs and you've got your mentor who's experienced to help you kind of 00:36:59.294 --> 00:37:02.243 figure out like how to solve the problem. 00:37:02.244 --> 00:37:05.144 And so that's really like the demographic balance that we try to hit. 00:37:05.194 --> 00:37:09.954 Victoria: And I'm guessing you did not really anticipate being CEO of a company 00:37:09.954 --> 00:37:15.554 that's got a 2 billion valuation, when you were starting on this journey, how 00:37:16.064 --> 00:37:19.284 have you learned to evolve as a leader? 00:37:20.650 --> 00:37:22.770 Gaurab: I think the biggest thing is ego. 00:37:22.820 --> 00:37:23.850 I think the. 00:37:25.725 --> 00:37:27.605 Starting out, you just think you're hot shit, right? 00:37:27.685 --> 00:37:29.915 Excuse my language, but like, you know, when you start out, 00:37:29.915 --> 00:37:31.115 you're like, Yeah, we all do! 00:37:31.265 --> 00:37:31.965 Which is great! 00:37:32.005 --> 00:37:33.505 You need that level of energy. 00:37:33.855 --> 00:37:37.255 But the reason like we set up a solution where we have the more experienced 00:37:37.265 --> 00:37:41.975 people mentoring is because we want that really when I say like mentorship, 00:37:42.205 --> 00:37:43.675 I just mean getting rid of ego. 00:37:44.285 --> 00:37:47.965 That's what I found is like the people who are truly experienced, they are 00:37:47.965 --> 00:37:52.035 like completely egoless about the final outcome because they want what's 00:37:52.035 --> 00:37:53.445 best for the company and the customer. 00:37:53.805 --> 00:37:57.560 So I think what I've learned and still learning to be frank is like, this 00:37:57.590 --> 00:38:01.450 ego piece of the puzzle, just being able to acknowledge that that is a 00:38:01.460 --> 00:38:06.240 significant problem if you're kind of in, auto mode, and you're just driven 00:38:06.240 --> 00:38:09.150 by ego, you're going to do things that aren't best for the customer. 00:38:09.180 --> 00:38:12.070 So, having the more experienced people around me to be like, look. 00:38:12.675 --> 00:38:15.885 I know that you're passionate about this, but your ego is driving this decision. 00:38:15.885 --> 00:38:18.605 So let's take a step back and see well, what are the, what 00:38:18.605 --> 00:38:19.875 are the truths of this problem? 00:38:20.285 --> 00:38:23.375 And does your ego need to even be involved in this conversation? 00:38:23.455 --> 00:38:26.175 And so, that level of self awareness, I think, is what's 00:38:26.175 --> 00:38:27.675 really changing for me and Sean. 00:38:27.795 --> 00:38:28.985 And it, it was a painful process. 00:38:29.849 --> 00:38:32.049 Victoria: Is there a leader that you model yourself 00:38:32.805 --> 00:38:32.965 Gaurab: Uh, 00:38:33.029 --> 00:38:35.929 Victoria: that you say, I, I would like to be a leader like 00:38:35.929 --> 00:38:37.749 this or a combination of leaders 00:38:38.275 --> 00:38:39.305 Gaurab: Not really. 00:38:39.395 --> 00:38:41.255 I wish it would make my life a lot easier. 00:38:41.305 --> 00:38:45.775 I think for us it's more of what does the company need at the moment and 00:38:45.775 --> 00:38:47.545 in the next, 12 months for us to be? 00:38:47.915 --> 00:38:50.735 And so what we do is we study companies that are in that 00:38:50.855 --> 00:38:52.155 phase of their life cycle. 00:38:52.165 --> 00:38:55.985 So there's a lot of companies that are in this, weird, inflection point period. 00:38:56.145 --> 00:38:58.655 But there's a lot of people who've gone through that in their career. 00:38:58.955 --> 00:39:02.515 So we spend time with them to figure out like, well, where did you guys go wrong? 00:39:02.585 --> 00:39:06.635 And fundamentally, like, the biggest issue is always ego in, in, in these things. 00:39:06.745 --> 00:39:10.345 So anyone who can teach us how to be less self centered, ego driven, 00:39:10.385 --> 00:39:11.625 I think it's the right answer. 00:39:11.625 --> 00:39:13.535 Yeah. 00:39:13.544 --> 00:39:16.654 Victoria: that's tough because I said, you know, we're all egocentric. 00:39:16.979 --> 00:39:18.029 In our own way, right? 00:39:18.029 --> 00:39:19.899 We're all, I mean, that's just human nature. 00:39:19.949 --> 00:39:23.129 We see the world through our own eyes, with our own lenses. 00:39:23.129 --> 00:39:24.929 We are the center of our own universe. 00:39:25.229 --> 00:39:27.909 And it's really hard to break some of those paradigms and see 00:39:27.909 --> 00:39:29.909 things from other perspectives 00:39:30.815 --> 00:39:31.955 Gaurab: And the worst is like when 00:39:31.989 --> 00:39:32.599 Victoria: how we're wired. 00:39:32.915 --> 00:39:33.845 Gaurab: not how we're wired. 00:39:33.845 --> 00:39:36.895 And the worst is when that thinking starts to bleed into 00:39:36.895 --> 00:39:38.485 the customer interactions, right? 00:39:38.485 --> 00:39:42.685 Because the whole point of a customer interaction is, am I solving the problem 00:39:42.765 --> 00:39:44.855 that is their problem and not my problem? 00:39:45.285 --> 00:39:48.555 And so I think that was like this whole, like, I call it like 00:39:48.605 --> 00:39:51.545 commercial compassion, which is can you go in and really 00:39:51.825 --> 00:39:54.925 understand what the customer needs through that process. 00:39:54.975 --> 00:39:55.615 And that's hard. 00:39:55.755 --> 00:39:56.895 It's really hard to do. 00:39:57.735 --> 00:39:57.995 Yeah. 00:39:58.045 --> 00:40:01.559 Victoria: Listening without bias, which is hard 00:40:03.779 --> 00:40:04.959 to learning for all. 00:40:05.289 --> 00:40:09.139 I will say I try that, and I've had the opportunity to really speak and 00:40:09.139 --> 00:40:13.509 learn and listen from a lot of leaders like yourself and others and staying 00:40:13.549 --> 00:40:15.869 open, listening just to listen. 00:40:16.474 --> 00:40:20.834 As opposed to with your own agenda and bias it's a challenge. 00:40:20.964 --> 00:40:21.444 It's a skill. 00:40:21.444 --> 00:40:22.004 It's a muscle. 00:40:22.004 --> 00:40:23.074 You have to keep working. 00:40:23.785 --> 00:40:27.405 Gaurab: It's almost always you're in what you thought was the way this thing 00:40:27.405 --> 00:40:29.255 is going to go is like never, right? 00:40:29.285 --> 00:40:31.915 Things are just gonna go the way that they should. 00:40:31.964 --> 00:40:32.364 Victoria: It evolves. 00:40:32.844 --> 00:40:33.204 It evolves. 00:40:33.524 --> 00:40:36.814 So my final question here for you is, what's your advice? 00:40:37.194 --> 00:40:41.404 So what's your advice to young doctors and scientists 00:40:41.924 --> 00:40:45.434 Or, young leaders anywhere that are, that want to pursue a path of 00:40:45.434 --> 00:40:47.224 entrepreneurship on a large scale? 00:40:47.399 --> 00:40:48.629 What advice would you give? 00:40:49.285 --> 00:40:52.085 Gaurab: Yeah, I think, the blanket advice is just make sure you're 00:40:52.095 --> 00:40:54.185 solving a meaningful problem, right? 00:40:54.205 --> 00:40:57.265 Cause like you're going to be, I thought I was going to be doing 00:40:57.265 --> 00:40:58.795 this for maybe two or three years. 00:40:59.045 --> 00:41:02.605 Like when I was like, okay, I'll do this for two, three years, license out 00:41:02.605 --> 00:41:06.525 the technology and then go back into academics and medicine or whatever. 00:41:06.915 --> 00:41:09.985 But now it's been almost eight years and I'm still doing the job. 00:41:09.995 --> 00:41:10.265 Right. 00:41:10.265 --> 00:41:14.505 So I think it has to be something worth kind of pushing through 10 00:41:14.505 --> 00:41:16.255 years, at least 10 years for it. 00:41:16.545 --> 00:41:20.485 Otherwise it's just, it's, I mean, that's okay if you don't want that. 00:41:20.485 --> 00:41:23.355 But the reality is if you really want to build something of meaning 00:41:23.355 --> 00:41:27.025 and generational value, I think, the first 10 years is really where 00:41:27.025 --> 00:41:28.275 you see where it's going to go. 00:41:28.655 --> 00:41:31.375 And then you, after that first 10 years is where you can actually 00:41:31.375 --> 00:41:34.595 start building, like what, the legacy or the thing is going to be. 00:41:34.935 --> 00:41:35.455 So where I'm 00:41:35.455 --> 00:41:35.625 at 00:41:35.699 --> 00:41:38.639 Victoria: other hand, based on what you said, that you thought this was 00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:41.559 going to be two or three years, if you had known it was going to be 00:41:41.579 --> 00:41:43.259 10 years, would you have jumped in? 00:41:44.615 --> 00:41:47.085 Gaurab: To be completely honest probably not 00:41:47.275 --> 00:41:52.095 probably like if I had to go back now and be like, look, man, like I love it. 00:41:52.155 --> 00:41:56.975 Like I love the process now, but it's only after learning more about myself. 00:41:57.065 --> 00:42:00.495 But like, when you start that journey, you know nothing about yourself, 00:42:00.565 --> 00:42:03.085 like you're a kid out of like school. 00:42:03.095 --> 00:42:03.315 Right. 00:42:03.315 --> 00:42:04.295 So you know, nothing. 00:42:04.365 --> 00:42:08.545 And so I think I wouldn't have done it, but I'm so glad I did because the lessons. 00:42:09.040 --> 00:42:12.330 I accelerated like personal and professional development 00:42:12.340 --> 00:42:13.620 by 10 years, like I 00:42:13.620 --> 00:42:14.840 guess you could say. 00:42:15.589 --> 00:42:16.189 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:42:16.289 --> 00:42:16.619 Cool. 00:42:16.659 --> 00:42:18.459 Well, thank you so much. 00:42:18.479 --> 00:42:20.379 I've really enjoyed spending time with you today. 00:42:20.379 --> 00:42:23.279 I know others are really going to love hearing your story. 00:42:23.729 --> 00:42:24.529 Gaurab: Thank you so much. 00:42:24.529 --> 00:42:27.640 Really appreciate the questions and a huge fan of what you're doing here. 00:42:27.800 --> 00:42:28.180 So thank you. 00:42:28.859 --> 00:42:28.919 Victoria: Thank you. 00:42:28.919 --> 00:42:29.539 I appreciate that. 00:42:29.539 --> 00:42:30.909 And thank you everyone for listening. 00:42:30.909 --> 00:42:33.639 Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we will 00:42:33.639 --> 00:42:34.729 talk with you again soon. 00:42:37.189 --> 00:42:38.969 voiceover: We've come to the end of today's podcast. 00:42:39.379 --> 00:42:41.929 We hope you enjoyed your time with us and want to learn more. 00:42:42.338 --> 00:42:44.598 Simply visit TheChemicalShow. 00:42:44.608 --> 00:42:47.358 com for additional information and helpful resources. 00:42:48.048 --> 00:42:52.098 Join us again next time here on The Chemical Show with Victoria Meyer.