Rob: Good evening, fellow travelers.
Good afternoon.
Good morning.
Wherever you are, whatever time it is, you are now in the Subspace Radio world.
We are here to talk about an episode of Star Trek that has just
beamed out into the universe, and, uh, we will discuss it gleefully.
I am Rob Lloyd, and joining me as always is Kevin Yank.
Kevin: Is this the Subspace Radio world, Rob, or is it a parody
of a slightly bizarro universe version of the Subspace Radio
Rob: Or is it all a hologram, holo, grammatic program?
80 years before the
Kevin: Are you real?
Are you the real Rob Lloyd, Rob?
Rob: There's only one way to find out and we need to dance the tango!
Kevin: All right.
Well, I, I'll, I'll, that's better option than a, a grazing shoulder wound, I
Rob: Yes.
Or a cut.
Or a cut, yes.
A cut from a chandelier on the cheek.
So yes, we are here to talk about the most recent episode of Star Trek Strange
New Worlds, uh, season three, episode four, um, A Space Adventure Hour.
Kevin: Yeah, I think last week I called it the mystery hour because I, I, I saw the,
the promo photos for the show, and I was like, that looks like a murder mystery.
And it kind of was.
Uh, but yeah, the, I completely missed the, the whole, um, Star
Trek sixties parody element.
I guess they were keeping that for the, for the surprise.
Rob: It was many things rolled together in one, and it, it clearly
was their flagship episode or one of many flagship episodes for the season
because they brought out the big guns.
Jonathan Frakes was back to, uh, direct this one, so you know, you're
in for one that they believe in.
Um, but how did you find it?
Did you believe in this episode, Mr. Kevin Yank.
Kevin: I kind of want you to go first.
Because I, yeah, I don't know.
I, I have, I have many mixed thoughts is what I will say.
I'm curious if it took your fancy.
Rob: Yes.
Look, uh, for, for me, I enjoyed it, but it definitely isn't up there with, um,
see Those Old Scientists or some other, uh, shining lights of season one and two.
Kevin: I'll agree.
I think it tried a lot of comic beats and only about half of
them at best landed with me.
So do I appreciate what they were going for?
Yes.
Do I think they were fully successful?
No.
I came out of it going, do I hate fun?
Do I just not…?
I don't.
I feel like Star Trek Strange New Worlds season three is giving,
trying to give us a lot of fun.
And I'm going, your fun is not up to my standards.
I'm sorry.
Rob: Go back to the death and murder and possibly being token over by the Gorn.
Give us that.
That's
Kevin: feel like it's the third episode in a row that I'm
saying almost, but not quite.
Rob: Um, yeah, look, there were, I enjoyed it.
I enjoyed it, but it wasn't something I was adoring.
And I did find it very interesting that especially there's many
different worlds and many different levels going on in this story.
And the one in particular is this, in this holodeck reality, there
is a version, there is a science fiction show that is a sendup of
the sixties, uh, original series.
But our yes, sort of this is the thing.
And there's been quite, quite a lot of articles and I, I'd like the
idea of talking about it because it is kind of true with this episode.
You see it.
The history of Star Trek is defined by the parodies of it as
opposed to actually what it does.
Um, and in many ways, Doctor Who, uh, my other big love is
perceived by the perception of is, is known by the perception of
its past, then the actual reality.
Yeah.
It's always that the wobbly.
Kevin: or whatever it was he,
Rob: Yeah.
The wobbly sets is always the defining, um, uh, phrase of it.
And so, um, the same with, uh, the 60 Star Trek.
It's defined by how people parody it.
Say, you know, John Belushi in the original Saturday Night Live, or,
um, Jim Carrey in, um, in Living
Kevin: I think I wanna push back a little bit on how Star Trek is defined, even in
the social consciousness as that, as that.
Certainly there were a lot of parodies of the thing.
And parody is parody, but when the, when the, the thing itself,
when Star Trek turns around and attempts to parody itself, there is
something very precarious that you're like, you're playing with fire.
Rob: What I was getting at, is sort of like the, you know, it's, it's a
very funny moment to have the actor who's playing James T. Kirk doing an
impression of William Shatner, but he's not doing an impression of William
Shatner, he's doing an impression of the impression of William Shatner.
Kevin: Yes, he is!
Exactly.
And it for me, we, we have said again and again in our.
Um, in our thoughts on the Lower Decks series, just how brilliantly it walked
right up to the line of making fun of Star Trek, but never crossed it.
Rob: Hmm.
Kevin: And this episode feels like it did not learn that lesson.
It did not have that deft touch and it blundered straight over that line
and to the point where it was, it was showing us a dysfunctional cast
on a cheap looking set that was more fifties than sixties with incompetent
and mean-spirited creatives, like going at each other or not caring about it.
And I, I can totally see that it is a valid perspective to
say in the sixties, no one knew what Star Trek was gonna become.
For most of the people working on it, it was probably just another job,
and they were probably just people.
And there's something valuable about like not putting them on too high a pedestal
and, and deifying them for something that wasn't true about them at the time.
But this goes too far, like it's an overcorrection for my
Rob: Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean there were moments that I, there were moments that I really appreciated,
like little subtle stuff like Ortegas coming in as, as her characterization
and clearly bored with it all.
You could, and that's a, a really talented actor to play someone who's
not a very good actor, but bored.
I like that.
That was a good little moment.
I love the, the, the bad alien design where you could see them
holding the eyes with the rods.
That was kind of cute.
Um,
Kevin: Did you?
Did you, I don't see, those are the things I didn't love.
E each case, at best they got a chuckle outta me and then I felt, felt bad for the
chuckle because I felt like it was, um.
It was at the expense of Star Trek that never looked cheap
in those ways, at least to me.
Rob: No, no.
And, and that's, that's the thing.
It's sort of like you, you how we perceive the 60 series is, or how in modern, it's
sort of like the zeitgeist isn't what it actually was and especially going back
and watching it, you can you see for what it was of the time and how some of the
acting was more performy performative because of that time period where all
performances were a bit like that.
But overall, the, you could see there was money behind the set.
There was money, but they were doing the best they could with
the money they had at that time, uh, for, for a television budget.
Kevin: Yeah.
I will say, I don't know if my glasses are that rose colored, but even when
I go back and watch original series episodes today, which we do a lot, uh,
with this podcast, I get to revisit those episodes a lot and when I look
at them, at worst, at their very worst, everyone on screen is fully committed.
Rob: course.
Kevin: And yeah, the, the doctor wandering onto the set looking bored or,
you know, the, the, the alien holding up the eyeballs by obvious sticks.
Like these kinds of things are gilding the lily, I feel like.
Rob: Yeah, I, I was, like I said, I was okay with those things.
But the, um, outtakes at the end, which were clear, which were clearly staged,
Kevin: Oh, of course.
Rob: So, it kind of, I I could, I couldn't get behind it.
'Cause I'm going, if you're gonna do outtakes, do outtakes.
Kevin: Do real, it
Rob: Don't, don't make fake.
Kevin: Don't make up funny outtakes.
Yeah, they didn't, they, they neither seemed genuine in the making of this
show, nor did they seem genuine in the making of that fictional show.
They seemed like, you know, that impro game that has fallen outta favor,
whether it's like high school play and you play a bad play knocking over
the sets and bumping into each other.
Um, that's what it felt like to me.
Rob: Yes.
And, and the, the cardinal sin was, it wasn't that funny, like,
Kevin: that funny.
The funniest moment for me was the mix up be, is it human pies or human piles?
And Jonathan Frakes off stage yells it's piles then Kirk goes Pies.
Like that got me.
And then it was just downhill from there.
Rob: Yes, so.
Um, obviously, uh, our thoughts on, uh, the parody of the sixties.
Star Trek is not as successful as they would've hoped, but then we go into, um,
uh, you know, a timeline minefield of 80 years before it's meant to be, they're
trying to tie it in with the recreational room from the Animated Series.
Kevin: Yep.
Rob: Um, we have a holiday, uh deck episode.
Um, and it was It was, I, I love
my man Bashir
Kevin: Yeah, I am, I am happy with a cannon bend in service of a good episode.
And, uh, yeah, it, for me, if they were, if they needed to bring the
holodeck in and frame it the way they did, I was happy to go there.
Um, and um, you know, we haven't had a proper holodeck malfunction
episode in Star Trek in quite a while, so I was kind of there for
Rob: Because we haven't had a holodeck episode in southern whi— anyway.
Um, so yes, and that, uh, that will be our, uh, topic.
When we finish talking about this, we'll be
Kevin: Indeed more holodeck episodes.
Rob: of our, uh, of Holodeck episodes.
Um.
Uh, it was a bit of our, uh, Our Man Bashir trick to have the actors
we know playing new characters, and that's always a joy to see.
Uh, it was great to see, uh, our, our, our, um, Aussie Aussie, uh, uh,
chapel use her actual Aussie accent
Kevin: Jess Bush.
Yep.
Jess Bush playing a real accent and La'an putting on a fake American accent.
So it is like they handed the fake American accent from one actor to
the other for the episode, which was
Rob: Yes.
Um, so yeah, that was fun.
The costumes were great.
Um, uh, Uhura did really well as the sort of like the agent type character.
Very sassy, sixties.
Uh, Anson Mount was all, you know, his voice change was incredible
and his physicality was great.
Kevin: Yeah.
Uh, like the hair, it's like, it seems like the one consistent fact of all of
his, um, incarnations will be spectacular
Rob: He is the Samson of our, uh, Star Trek world.
Um, it was a pretty nice little cute little who done it type of setup.
Nice little tricks played along the way.
And I, I, I, I liked the little twist at the end that, um, that the Spock companion
was actually, uh, a hologram as well, which was kind of a cute little twist.
Kevin: I don't know if the same thing happened on your couch, but
when she first walked in and Spock was there, we were like, hang on.
Hang on.
That's not Spock is it?
But then he leaves and you're like, oh, I guess it was Spock.
And then you forget your theory until it comes
Rob: That's good writing.
That is genuinely good writing.
Um, now, okay, so, um, uh, Scotty again was flying solo.
If you give us the promise in episode one of Pelia and Scotty, please
give me more pe, Pelia and Scotty.
I like them together and I know that we're not gonna have it
forever, but please give me more.
Scotty was, Scotty was great this episode.
But yes, I would like to see a bit more toing and froing.
Kevin: It was conspicuous how alone Scotty was, in that science lab trying to keep
the holodeck running, uh, and, and, and rescuing La'an from, from its clutches.
Uh, and the fact that they made a plot point of that n nevertheless made it
like it barely excused the fact that it was really strange, except for the fact
that the number of times in the original series that it also just seemed like
Scotty down in engineering, answering the comm and nobody else around.
So it is nothing if not
Rob: I did like Scotty and Uhura with their hypothetical conversation.
I,
Kevin: I, I really didn't like that scene.
I liked the acting.
I thought it was funny and charming.
But going back to my thoughts last week, the number of times
they break the rules for no good reason on a Starship on this show.
Like La'an's life is threatened and it's like, oh, let's whisper
so the captain doesn't hear us.
This should be an all hands on deck.
This should be the moment where the crew rallies to save La'an.
Instead, it's like, well, no one really likes La'an, so let's just
keep this a secret between you and
Rob: Well, one person likes La'an.
I.
Kevin: One person very much likes La'an.
I really like La'an this episode.
I've done enough belly aching.
I'm gonna say something that I really loved, which was the
whole Amelia Moon thing and La'an geeking out on the holodeck.
Um.
I have said earlier this season that I sometimes didn't quite buy, that the turn
of character was true to the character.
This felt true to the character,
Rob: was gonna, I was
Kevin: and I, I
Rob: I was gonna bring that up, uh, because I'm there going, I'm loving
this and I hope Kevin does as well.
But, um,
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: Like that infiltration of the actor and the character,
especially bringing the dancing back.
But I love the justification of, you know, the, the, the captain of the
ship that saved her from the Gorn to, you gave her these books and that was
her comfort afterwards and it was a lovely connection and her enthusiasm.
Kevin: was no need for her to put on an American accent holodeck
program, but she did because she loves it and that, ugh, I love that.
Those kind of details.
Watching a character enjoy themselves and watching an actor enjoy playing
a character enjoying themselves.
All of that worked for me.
Uh, and it nicely balanced the fact that, uh, the actual murder mystery
was, was like very unsatisfying.
I think when you set the audience up for a murder mystery, everyone's leaning in
going, can I notice the, the evidence?
Can I notice the clues?
Can I pick up what's going on?
And there was nothing really there other than a string of, of like
character monologues followed by a death and then another character
monologue followed by death.
And, uh, at the end it was obviously very frustrating for La'an as well.
They packed up the holodeck and threw it in the garbage.
Rob: least for another 80 years.
Kevin: She was like, I wanted a mystery, and what I got was tricked
by the holodeck, um, pulling a fast one on me and changing the
rules of the test, uh, as it were.
Rob: I would've, uh, uh, uh, almost expected at the end of the episode
when they said, well, let's put it away, uh, I was expecting Pike to
say, repeat the line he said in, uh, episode one of, of the season, I feel
as if I'm giving this responsibility for somebody else to deal with.
Kevin: Yeah, someone else can deal with these, uh, malfunctions someday.
Rob: So the big thing, alright.
Okay, Spock, the love hound.
How do you find?
It's the next, I know we've got a con, like this would be stretched out.
We've said it before.
I know everyone can play a drinking game with us about how much, we talk about how
much we miss the 24, 25 episode seasons.
Um, but this would be something that would grow and develop
over three or four episodes.
And so jumping one ep to another to go the previous episode, you were, you know.
Howling the loss.
Yeah.
Uh, two episodes ago you were howling the loss of this relationship that you'd
already kind of gotten over anyway.
Um,
Kevin: it in the recap.
Rob: yeah, they
Kevin: They referenced it explicitly.
Uh, I when it happened, I went, ah, come on.
Can we?
Like, is Strange New Worlds, the Spock, uh, love story of the week show?
I don't want it to be that.
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: Uh, but then rewatching that tango scene at the end, I
have to admit it was very hot.
Rob: Oh my God.
Well, look, this is the thing, you know, they are both very attractive people.
And when you have got, you know, when you've got Ethan Peck in your,
in your corner, you've, you've, you've gotta play your king.
And, um, he's a very gorgeous man and,
Kevin: Christina Chong not letting down the
Rob: and especially seeing her.
Kevin: she definitely got me in that scene.
Rob: Especially her dancing.
Is, is, is I, I admire it for its articles.
Kevin: Yeah, the, the sparks at the start of the episode when they're talking
about the holodeck and dancing, and they almost like, they, they get their faces
close to each other and then she gets distracted and goes, Amelia Moon and.
All of that was very charming as well.
And if they had left it at that, I would've been very happy.
But, uh, they went back to it and, and did the kiss at the end.
I don't know.
I don't know how it's gonna play out.
If the rest of this season is Spock and La'an's love story,
I'll be like, enough already that this is overwhelming the show.
But if this is a rebound fling for him and an opportunity for
her to grow as a character, I'm okay with it for an episode or
Rob: Yeah, I can see that there, there is definitely a spark there.
Between them, they're both very good actors as well.
I just want to temper our, our moderate, moderate objectification of them.
Um, but they, yes, it, it, I hope it isn't something long term, but it's definitely.
Kevin: If, if they come back next week and it's like, uh, you know, coyly
referenced of, whew, if that was a night.
Right, uh, let's go back being colleagues.
Aye, aye, sir.
You know, that would be great for me.
I think that would be perfect because, you know, people have workspace flings,
especially after a traumatic relationship.
You need to get it outta your system and have the rebound.
Rob: Yeah.
I'm not as, uh, as hopeful as that.
I think this is gonna be milked a little bit more.
But that is the episode, not as, uh, you know, didn't reach the
heights of what I was hoping for.
And I think Kevin was the same.
Um, but, uh, there was some, uh, nice stuff in there.
So let's, uh, let's delve into our second episode dealing with, uh, holodecks.
Kevin: Yeah, we last discussed Holodecks way back in episode 18.
Which was for, uh, Prodigy, uh, season one, episode 17, Ghost in
the Machine, and 18 Mind Walk.
Uh, so obviously Ghost in the Machine was the, the holodeck one that taught
new Star Trek fans what the Holodeck was.
And, uh, we, we talked about some of our favorites, but there are more to cover!
Rob: Yes.
Uh, with a cavalcade of cameos.
What a, what?
That just rolled off the tongue.
A cavalcade of cameos.
Kevin: That's right.
That's, that's the one with, it ended with, uh, with like Spock
and Scotty and her and Odo.
And all of these.
Yeah.
Uh, voice clips reused.
Rob: Uh, speaking earlier also the, the Prodigy episode where they come across
that culture that has taken on the Federation, um, that was a be, I think
a better episode, a more successful episode of showing how perceptions of
Star Trek is away from the reality.
I think that was a very, a much more, a cleverer of representation of that.
Kevin: Yeah, absolutely.
And if you're gonna talk Star Trek parodies like that, that hued much closer
to the model, the successful model of Galaxy Quest of like a, an alien race.
Misunderstanding the transmissions.
Rob: Exactly, but still playing it, uh, close to the heart, which is good.
Um, okay, so, uh, let's go in our always chronological order.
I bet you have a next generation episode to give me
Kevin: I bet I have a couple.
Rob: Ayy!
Well, you go, you
Kevin: the last time we talked about holodeck episodes, we talked about kind
of the, um, the series of Sherlock Holmes Mysteries with, uh, with Data and, uh,
as Holmes and Geordi as, um, Dr. Watson.
And, uh, and we skimmed right over The Big Goodbye, which is TNG, season one, episode
12, the first real holodeck episode in Star Trek history, if you don't count the
animated series, recreate, uh, recreation
Rob: Recreation deck.
That's right.
Kevin: Um, and when, when we last talked holodecks, I kind of said, oh, The Big
Goodbye, it's not that interesting.
Uh, but I went back and watched it this week, and there is definitely
something interesting about a start.
And certainly, certainly with A Space Adventure Hour this week,
there are a lot of things in common.
In The Big Goodbye.
The crew is trying out the holodeck.
Like Picard, the, the holodeck has been recently upgraded and
Picard is very stressed at work.
So Troi prescribes a visit to the holodeck.
He, uh, fires up a program based on his favorite mystery novels, Dixon
Rob: That's right.
Kevin: Uh, and he puts on a fedora cap.
He goes into the holodeck and plays the part of the private detective, and then
something happens to the ship that causes the holodeck to glitch and it, uh, it
loses contact with the rest of the ship.
No one can communicate in or out.
It will not open the exit doors when asked to, and the only way to save the ship
is to solve the mystery in the holodeck.
It is basically exactly the same model as A Space Adventure Hour here.
Um, just with a bit more kinda gumshoe detective tropes and a bit
less of that Star Trek Hollywood actors sort of stuff going
Rob: And do, do they come back to that world in, uh, First Contact when he
Kevin: Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
When he is, uh, when they're evading the Borg, they, they, uh, go into
the holodeck, fire up Dixon Hill and disable safety protocols.
Oh yes.
Safety protocols also get disabled, threatening the lives of the participants
in the program in this episode too.
So yeah, it matches it very closely.
Rob: This is season, this is season one, so it is a tough
season to, uh, reflect on.
It was not its best.
Kevin: Yeah, it's a safe season one episode I'd say for, for,
for better and for worse.
It's safe in that everyone is playing recognizable versions of their characters.
It's committed, it's charming.
It's a worthy episode.
I think it's not fatally flawed in any way.
It's also safe in that it, it.
It tells a small story.
Doesn't take any big swings.
And so, um, it's, it's not a unmissable chapter in Star Trek history.
But, uh, there's some lovely sizzle between Picard and
Crusher in this episode.
Picard first visits the holodeck in his uniform, and all the characters
are going, what is it, halloween?
You know, you're dressed up for a costume party or, or you'll
be ready for the sleepover soon.
Uh, all of this sort of stuff.
And after a couple of scenes, Picard goes, I'm clearly not well dressed for this.
And he, he pauses the, uh, program and goes to the conference room on
the bridge and geeks out in front of the entire bridge crew going.
It's amazing!
And he still has lipstick smeared on his face from the, the, the, the, uh,
new client that kissed Dixon Hill.
And he is geeking out and he goes, you all gonna come with me?
And it is, it is, uh, perhaps a little out of character for
Picard, but you can buy it.
That he's a nerd and he forgets
Rob: Especially, especially in season one, because from
Kevin: Yeah.
Very straight laced.
Rob: Yeah, like to the point of almost unlikeable.
Kevin: Yeah.
Um, at the end of the episode, there's a plot point where the, like, in order
to try to escape the life-threatening situation in this murder mystery, Picard
tries to convince the holodeck characters that they are characters in a holodeck,
and that he is actually the captain of a Starship, and no one buys it.
Um, but then they finally get the doors open and the characters
go there it is the Starship.
It's real.
He was telling the truth.
We are gonna go out there and explore the whole new world.
And the holodeck characters walk out into the hallway.
The mob boss and his henchman walk out into the hallway and they're like, it's
a whole new world, ripe for the taking.
And then they slowly dissolved from the feet going.
What's going on?
Don't they know who I am?
Who do they think they, blah, blah blah, and they're gone.
And so the fact that, you know, holodeck stuff dissolves, is outside of the
holodeck is very clearly established.
But earlier in the episode, Picard makes it all the way to the observation lounge
with holodeck lipstick on his face.
So there are, there are a few little like inconsistencies there.
I think we've, In Encounter at Farpoint, Wesley falls in a pond in the holodeck
and he comes out soaking wet as well.
So there's something about liquids on the holodeck are, are persistent.
Rob: Um, you made some good logic leaps there, Kevin.
You always bring that to our episodes.
Kevin: They were very obviously playing up the Picard and Crusher, like will
they, won't they, uh, love interest there.
Uh, Picard invites Crusher and she looks at him like she's just been invited
on a date and then he goes, oh, and we should also invite the ship's historian.
And she rolls her eyes and goes, I can't believe I fell for it again.
Uh, it is, it is very funny to watch her want to engage with him
romantically and then, um, him take absolutely no notice of her.
That was the model they were playing early in the series,
and it, it really works for me.
The other one I wanted to bring up was Hollow Pursuits, which is
a season three episode and is the introduction of Reginald Barclay.
Rob: Hey.
Kevin: Yeah, and, and the reason this one came to mind is it's
the first time we had holiday characters modeled in the likenesses
of real crew members on the ship.
Um, this was a naughty thing or an unhealthy preoccupation for
Reginald Barclay on the show.
Like this is, this is how his character was introduced, is he was addicted to
the holodeck, and he was very socially anxious and he would work out those social
anxieties by going onto the holodeck and make creating less threatening versions
of his coworkers to interact with.
Rob: I have, I have, I think I've seen that episode or parts of it.
I mean, I love, uh, uh, Dwight Schultz is incredible.
You know, he was, uh, Murdoch on The A Team, for heaven's sake,
um, uh, my favorite character.
Um, and he's incredible.
And of course they brought him back for, for Voyager.
So to go back to his inception.
Um, uh, wonderful, wonderful.
I do
Kevin: Yeah, the, this one's worth a revisit for sure.
Um, it similar to A Space Adventure Hour, the cold open is at first misleading.
I, I don't know if you felt the same, but watching the, that that
cold open in A Space Adventure Hour, I'm like, oh, they're on
the holodeck, or they're playing.
It's the, it's the characters we know playing parts, but then we
reveal, we are revealed that they, no, they are, they are simulations of
Rob: It was a big swing.
Yeah, it was a big swing of going, you know.
You're there going, what is this?
I was there going, is this a holodeck?
Is this whatever?
And then you go, oh no, do you have to wait until 10 minutes in to find out.
Kevin: Yes, and arguably completely unnecessary to the episode.
Like we later saw the dailies from that episode very briefly, and so that could
have all worked without that cold open.
The cold open was pure fan service, obviously.
Um, but yeah, it did give you, there were several moments of going, what is this?
Who are these?
What's the situation?
And uh, Hollow Pursuits is very similar.
The cold open is set in Ten Forward, and, uh, Barclay is being told off
initially by LaForge and then by Riker for not showing up on time or not doing
a good job, and then being insubordinate.
And, um, he ends up like decking Riker in Ten Forward and sending him sprawling
across the table, all for the adoring gaze of Deanna Troi, who's sitting in a
very low cut dress at one of the tables.
And it becomes clear at the end of the, the scene that this was all a
holodeck recreation, but it starts very every day, this could be a real thing.
So the, the moment where the audience clues in that this isn't
a real day in the life on the ship, uh, is an enjoyable, uh, moment.
So, yeah, that, that's very similar.
Um.
This whole episode is about that, uh, that social anxiety and, um.
Picard, well, LaForge tries to get Barkley transferred because he's always showing
up late and he's kind of stammery and uh, and awkward at his job, and nobody likes
working with him, and he's unreliable.
And Picard says, well, how he's been transferred from ship to
ship, this problem stops here.
He's your project now, LaForge.
And so LaForge has to make friends with the, with the,
uh, uh, the misfit on the ship.
And, uh, in the end, Barclay saves the ship, I, I, I'll say, and uh,
earns his place among the ranks.
At the very end of the episode, Barclay walks out on the bridge of the Enterprise
in front of the whole bridge crew and says, it's been a very tough decision,
but I've decided it's time to leave.
And they all say, you'll always have a place here.
And he goes, I know, that's why it makes it so hard to leave.
And then he says, computer end program.
And so it's bookended by scenes where you, at first, think it's real and
then it's revealed that it's not.
So yeah, it's, it's a masterfully written season.
This kind of stuff is why I love TNG season
Rob: Um, now, uh, Barclay of course, appeared, uh, throughout
the rest of, uh, Next Gen.
Kevin: Yeah.
Recurring guest character, and then came back in Voyager, of
Rob: in Voyager, if I can remember, he was holodecking as well to connect with.
He was going,
Kevin: At times, yeah.
He was kind of working in the lab that was running the project to bring them
Rob: Yes.
And, and they could connect somehow via a holodeck.
So yes.
Connected that way I seem to remember.
Yeah.
With the Doctor and, and the others.
Um, well, I, look, we've, we've just had the best, and I'm here to bring the rest.
I am gonna, I'm gonna go to, after I watched them again and uh, two
episodes in particular, I'm going, yeah, these really aren't that good.
And I look back at the general consensus and go, oh no, these are hated.
So
Kevin: Yeah.
Oh, well, that's all right.
I've brought some clunkers this season as well.
Rob: So I am, uh, here to talk about, we have mentioned before, but I don't
think we've gone into full detail.
We're gonna look at Fair Haven.
We are going to Star Trek, Voyager, season six with Fairhaven
and their follow-up episode.
Yes.
They went back there for, uh, they went back for, uh, Spirit Folk.
So yeah, that is, uh, they, they are certainly two episodes, Kevin.
Kevin: Yeah, you have, you have mentioned this one before in somewhat
admiring terms, I think just because of the fact that, it allows our female
captain to indulge that, that, uh.
You know, you can't be with any of your crew members as in a romantic way
because you're the captain of the ship and the ship is stranded in the Delta
quadrant, but you have to be above it all.
And so what do you do with your perfectly natural urges as a leader of people?
You go on the holodeck and you create yourself a perfect, uh, country
husband and, and I think there is something to be said for that.
And I don't know if it's just because of the conversations you and I have
had about that, that aspect to this stuff that I have ended up thinking of
these episodes as better than they are.
But I think, I also remember a lot of Paris and Harry Kim
bumbling around with carts and, and milk cows and things like that.
And there's a lot of, there's a lot of filler in these episodes is my
Rob: They are very much the generic, they're on the holodeck
and something goes wrong.
The first one, especially the something's going wrong, but also there's a
nebula or something outside, so, and it connects but kind of doesn't.
The second episode, uh, the Spirit Folk is definitely the weaker of the two, and
that's very much the, that is, it's a, it's, it's a trope played out many, many
times previously and better in other episodes where the holograms become
aware that, you know, the visitors are different and like Neelix looks different.
Yeah.
And they are the Spirit Folk.
They're very, the Irish accents are
Kevin: Oof,
Rob: there, are there somewhere.
Um, but in that first episode, Mulgrew is dynamite.
She's great.
She is really good.
She is suave and sultry and playful.
Kevin: Is this the delete the
Rob: Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
And that, that holds, that I hold, held that so high when I went
back to rewatch them both going, yeah, that's pretty much only it.
Um, and there's a, there's a thing that I keep on seeing.
She is bagging the hell outta holograms and the doctor is
standing right there and he never, she's again, but he is a hologram.
He's just, he's just, he's nothing at all.
And the doctor's going well, you know, and, but she doesn't even
Kevin: I don't mean you, we don't mean you.
Of
Rob: I wish she'd
Kevin: you're, you're one of the good ones, Doctor.
Rob: I wish at least some point after berating, holograms, she'd
just turn and do an obligatory, no offense, she doesn't even do that.
Kevin: One of my favorite tropes about holodeck episodes is when the
characters gracefully overlook something that they cannot make sense of.
When the characters turn to each other and talk about ship's business or their
mention their ranks or things like that, and the holodeck characters just
go Uhhuh, I'm just gonna ignore that.
I really love
Rob: Yes.
Yeah.
And there's quite a few, like the characters they set up, like the wonderful
actor who I've seen in many, many things, um, like Fugitive and other type shows.
And I think he was in The Inner Light as well.
He plays, he plays the local drunk who never has enough money and always there
going, if you have a spare a farthing, I might be able to get myself a drink,
oh I might need a couple of more.
Um, and the actor who plays, uh, Michael Sullivan, like the love interest, is him
and Kate Mulgrew have wonderful chemistry.
Wonderful.
Kevin: He, he was cast for his gravitas, I feel like.
And yeah.
Sold.
Sold the otherwise thin
Rob: Yes.
Uh, but the second one is quite dull.
Um, quite, quite bad.
It's just so generic.
It's just like you just there going, we have done this so many times and so
better, and it's really dull and boring.
And all those elements that are in, you know, Adventure Space, Time, uh, Hour, um,
is it played out like we're there going.
We've hit this in every single.
The only thing they didn't do is people from the crew looking like, you know,
well holograms looking like the crew.
Um, so yeah.
But the part I was interested in seeing that captain, female captain,
how does she cope in this situation?
Like there's a moment where Chakotay comes in and there's a little
bit of awkward, is it jealousy?
Is she embarrassed?
Is she nerv?
Yeah.
Um, uh, but yes, she is very good in it and her, her journey of
accepting the fact that, you know, she's allowed to be a human being.
Um, but yeah, just all the shade and all the negativity, deports, poor holograms.
Um, but yeah, the more and more I see those Voyager episodes like Paris
and Kim, uh, are just, are just big old nerds and they just, we give them
so much time and energy on that show and like Paris is just such a dork.
Kevin: Oh yeah, putting the black and white TV in, in his
quarters to watch by the bed.
Uh, like those kinds of things, it's like, well.
I mean, I guess you're a space explorer, I guess you, you work with computers a lot.
Your wife is an eng, is a chief engineer.
I suppose if the nerds of the future are gonna be anywhere, they're gonna be here
and, and so it's true to the character.
But yeah, it, it has a weird feeling of the, the time span between black and
white television and Tom Paris on Voyager, the hundreds of years between them.
If you project that into our reality, it's.
It's like, uh, I don't know, what's the equivalent?
Having a 14th century entertainment medium as your fixation in
Rob: Yeah.
Or possibly like us being ob obsessed with sort of like the long boat,
um, era or sort of like, you know, the high seas, like your Hornblower,
Hornblower, or master and commander type thing where you're obsessed with.
Kevin: Yeah.
It's a bit ren fair.
Yeah, if you brought the Renaissance Fair into your bedroom,
that's how nerdy we're talking
Rob: like, I know you're Canadian and I've always wanted to know what's the
deal with Americans and ren fairs?
Kevin: Yeah.
I don't know either.
I only feel like I became aware of it in the past
Rob: It's.
Kevin: I left North
Rob: Yeah, like even the episode of The Simpsons, where it deals with.
Anyway, I digress.
It's weird.
Um, but yes, they're both very, they're quite dull episodes and um, the first one
has some enticing stuff in it just because Kate Mulgrew is just, god, she's good.
Gosh, she's amazing.
She's head and shoulders.
Her and Picardo are just head and shoulders above most actors on that show.
Uh, and um, it's unfair, really.
And then you've got Jeri Ryan coming in and she goes, well,
actually I'm pretty dang good too.
Um, but yes, her relationship with Michael Sullivan is played out really nicely.
And yes, the famous line, I thought it was lose the wife, but then yeah.
Kevin: Oh, it might be lose wife,
Rob: It is Delete the wife.
It was up there going, yeah.
When she said, delete the wife, just the look in her face,
you're going, yeah, you did that.
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: what you want.
Kevin: You get what you want.
Rob: So yes, we've gone from the highs with Barclay to
the lows of the Spirit Folk.
Kevin: Ah, well, lots, there's, there's even more holodeck out there, so we
might do a holodeck part three someday.
Who knows?
Rob: We've, we've touched some pretty good ones, but there's still, like, I
even looked up holodeck episodes and there look, there are quite, there's a long list
and we've bare barely scraped the surface.
Kevin: Yeah.
Uh, wow.
I I have no doubt there will at least be some hollow simulations in Starfleet
Academy that might lead us there, though my understanding is the, the the Academy
itself is a ship that lifts off and goes on missions so that you can, like,
like doctors in a training hospital, you actually get put in front of real
cases, these cadets actually go on real diplomatic missions and they are kind of
accompanied by one of the real ships, but they're the training ship that goes along
and then the saucer comes back to San Francisco and docks on top of the tower.
Uh, so it'll be interesting.
Rob: That's a very Star Trek way of instead of being Deep Space Nine, staying
in the one location, this is your way of being Next Gen or Voyager by going out.
That's a very clever idea.
I like that.
Kevin: that's right.
Yeah.
Anyway, we'll see if, uh, we get a holodeck, uh, part three out of that.
But until then,
Rob: hoping we get an episode where Kevin Yank is happy.
I don't like
Kevin: I hope so too, Rob, I'm, I'm starting to feel like maybe
I, I, I am holding Star Trek to an impossible standard, and an unfair one.
Rob: Look, you wouldn't be the first Star Trek fan to do that.
Kevin: Mm, yeah.
Uh, I am going.
My mantra for next week's episode is just have fun.
Just enjoy the fun.
This is meant to be the fun Star Trek series.
It's okay that it's all icing and no cake.
Rob: Exactly, exactly.
You have your sugar, have your sugar crash five minutes after and have a little
Kevin: Yeah, that's right.
All right, well until then, Rob, see you around the galaxy.
Rob: then can't wait.