WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.370 Matt: Elizabeth, welcome to the WP Minute. 00:00:03.070 --> 00:00:03.890 Laura: Thank you for having me. 00:00:04.590 --> 00:00:09.779 Matt: I have to say, for all the podcasters out there and for all of 00:00:09.789 --> 00:00:17.190 the would be guests to podcast shows, your, Email outreach was fantastic. 00:00:17.450 --> 00:00:18.770 I thank you so much. 00:00:19.080 --> 00:00:24.790 and, it is a school or it's a, it's a, it's a masterclass in how folks should 00:00:25.020 --> 00:00:29.780 just reach out like a human, without demands, you know, like you sent out an 00:00:29.780 --> 00:00:30.910 email, you said, Hey, here's my email. 00:00:31.060 --> 00:00:32.130 Here's who I am. 00:00:32.130 --> 00:00:33.190 Here's what I do. 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:34.500 I've listened to your show. 00:00:34.790 --> 00:00:39.190 I think I could bring these three value points to a podcast for somebody who's 00:00:39.190 --> 00:00:42.900 been doing this for like 15 years I just got to spend a few minutes saying thanks. 00:00:43.250 --> 00:00:45.970 And, and appreciating your efforts. 00:00:46.410 --> 00:00:48.930 So all of that said, who are you? 00:00:48.930 --> 00:00:52.130 And what do you do in the wonderful world of WordPress? 00:00:52.130 --> 00:00:55.840 Laura: my name is Laura and I am the founder of a WordPress 00:00:55.900 --> 00:00:57.670 plugin called Client Portal. 00:00:58.030 --> 00:00:59.370 it's exactly what it sounds like. 00:00:59.370 --> 00:01:03.470 There's really no better way to describe it other than it's a portal for clients. 00:01:03.550 --> 00:01:08.120 So usually freelancers and agencies use it, but we also have accountants, 00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:09.400 law firms, and that kind of thing. 00:01:09.810 --> 00:01:11.500 and it just keeps all the. 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:16.030 deliverables, invoices, all this stuff that tends to get lost in 00:01:16.030 --> 00:01:20.490 those big, long email threads, just in one place, for your client. 00:01:21.030 --> 00:01:22.960 but I've actually been in WordPress for quite a long time. 00:01:22.960 --> 00:01:27.430 So I started Client Portal in 2016 and then, shortly after I graduated 00:01:27.430 --> 00:01:28.875 around 2012 during that time. 00:01:29.225 --> 00:01:30.255 Horrible recession. 00:01:30.785 --> 00:01:35.225 I started off building WordPress websites for as a freelancer. 00:01:35.255 --> 00:01:38.425 So yeah, I've been in WordPress for quite a long time now. 00:01:39.085 --> 00:01:41.355 Matt: All right, let's, we have a particular topic. 00:01:41.355 --> 00:01:44.105 We're gonna talk about how you started in like the services side 00:01:44.105 --> 00:01:46.665 of things and like building websites and then moving to products. 00:01:46.975 --> 00:01:47.735 my hand up. 00:01:47.735 --> 00:01:52.425 I did the same thing in the horrible financial crisis of 2007, 2008. 00:01:52.725 --> 00:01:56.025 I was started an agency and when I started an agency, I was like, 00:01:56.025 --> 00:01:58.785 Hey, this Client stuff is fun, but man, I'd rather do a product. 00:01:59.125 --> 00:02:00.135 that was a whole different world. 00:02:00.275 --> 00:02:02.725 We're going to talk about that in a moment, but I want to talk about 00:02:02.945 --> 00:02:07.575 maybe the temperature in the room, marketplace wise, like how does 00:02:07.575 --> 00:02:10.095 the economy feel to you these days? 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:13.490 we remember the 2007, 2008, 2012. 00:02:13.750 --> 00:02:17.470 Well, how does it feel for you now that you're squarely in the product space? 00:02:17.480 --> 00:02:21.520 What, what does it feel like for you selling products, competing people with 00:02:21.870 --> 00:02:23.730 extra cash, are they consolidating? 00:02:23.750 --> 00:02:25.290 What's it look like from your perspective? 00:02:25.990 --> 00:02:27.620 Laura: Yeah, I think that's a really good question. 00:02:27.620 --> 00:02:28.130 I think. 00:02:28.610 --> 00:02:32.240 In a way, it's kind of harder to answer because I've been in it for so long. 00:02:32.390 --> 00:02:35.820 It seems like a good time to be in it. 00:02:36.320 --> 00:02:41.680 I know during COVID, for me, that was really the best time for me. 00:02:41.950 --> 00:02:46.080 a lot of people were going from working in a, you know, regular 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:47.660 job to doing more freelance. 00:02:47.720 --> 00:02:50.910 At home, so for Client Portal, that was, you know, really good. 00:02:51.610 --> 00:02:56.060 and then, you know, after COVID, there was the cost of living 00:02:56.170 --> 00:02:57.700 crisis that happened everywhere. 00:02:57.790 --> 00:03:01.760 And I definitely felt that and talking to a lot of other 00:03:01.780 --> 00:03:04.530 plugin owners, they did too. 00:03:04.710 --> 00:03:08.490 you know, people were just a bit more hesitant on buying and, you 00:03:08.490 --> 00:03:11.040 know, maybe like refund rates would kind of go up a little bit. 00:03:11.620 --> 00:03:13.450 but it feels like it's stabilizing now. 00:03:13.550 --> 00:03:16.940 It feels like it's, it's getting back to where. 00:03:17.275 --> 00:03:19.495 It sort of feels like it's just getting back to normal. 00:03:20.065 --> 00:03:24.825 but I would imagine if it, there's also probably a lot more competition 00:03:24.825 --> 00:03:28.285 and this is where it's kind of hard because I've been in it for so long. 00:03:28.795 --> 00:03:33.015 you know, my story of starting might be totally different from someone starting 00:03:33.015 --> 00:03:37.095 out right now because I would imagine a lot more competition these days. 00:03:37.570 --> 00:03:37.860 Matt: Yeah. 00:03:38.370 --> 00:03:44.460 one of the things, I mean, WordPress is in the crosshairs these days, we're recording 00:03:44.460 --> 00:03:49.250 this mid October, trying to steer clear from like the, you know, hashtag 00:03:49.250 --> 00:03:53.530 WP drama stuff, but there's a lot of, uncertainty in the air, to put it mildly. 00:03:53.845 --> 00:03:59.375 to under, to undersell it, we're not sure where WordPress is headed and how it's 00:03:59.385 --> 00:04:00.865 going to, how the dust is going to settle. 00:04:01.195 --> 00:04:05.765 but I think we're both, proponents of WordPress because. 00:04:06.110 --> 00:04:10.650 Of our backstories, like you can take open source WordPress, you can unpack 00:04:10.650 --> 00:04:13.270 it literally, like you can look at the code because it's open source. 00:04:13.270 --> 00:04:14.370 You can learn from it. 00:04:14.370 --> 00:04:16.620 You can say, Oh, this is, this is how code works. 00:04:16.620 --> 00:04:17.420 This is how I learned. 00:04:17.420 --> 00:04:20.680 I mean, started pulling it apart, building templates, making pages. 00:04:20.770 --> 00:04:22.180 How does a database work? 00:04:22.180 --> 00:04:27.120 Like all this stuff leads to education, I think, in understanding 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:29.070 how to code and the greater web. 00:04:29.380 --> 00:04:32.920 But then it also allows us to sort of spin this services thing. 00:04:33.300 --> 00:04:36.380 And we can, we can really start to level up our game. 00:04:37.050 --> 00:04:38.430 I look at WordPress. 00:04:38.460 --> 00:04:40.390 This is not a direct question, but I'm curious on your thoughts. 00:04:40.910 --> 00:04:46.440 I look at WordPress as the foundation to, you know, somebody's next career. 00:04:46.450 --> 00:04:49.620 Like this could, this is the thing, like you don't need to go to school. 00:04:49.790 --> 00:04:50.950 You need WordPress. 00:04:51.030 --> 00:04:55.630 I know it sounds like a real lovey dovey statement these days, but really 00:04:55.630 --> 00:04:58.990 like somebody can unpack it, take it, search for things on the web, 00:04:59.280 --> 00:05:00.990 then buy, let's say your product. 00:05:01.010 --> 00:05:03.110 To help power their services business. 00:05:03.110 --> 00:05:06.530 But this is a springboard to something that's a lot greater 00:05:06.820 --> 00:05:09.220 than publishing pages on the web. 00:05:09.760 --> 00:05:10.900 What's your thoughts on that? 00:05:11.058 --> 00:05:15.448 Laura: Yeah, I completely agree because the thing about WordPress is that you can, 00:05:15.698 --> 00:05:17.908 like you said, the barrier to entry is. 00:05:18.608 --> 00:05:21.008 It's so low, like anyone can use it. 00:05:21.018 --> 00:05:22.428 It's completely open source. 00:05:22.918 --> 00:05:26.638 but it's also so powerful because there's so many things built on WordPress. 00:05:27.138 --> 00:05:30.028 If you start out like I did as a freelancer with really not 00:05:30.028 --> 00:05:33.408 much experience, you're in the position where you're telling 00:05:33.408 --> 00:05:35.288 clients, Oh yeah, I can do that. 00:05:35.908 --> 00:05:38.268 And then hoping you can figure it out. 00:05:38.878 --> 00:05:42.058 With WordPress, you can, because there's such a big community. 00:05:42.258 --> 00:05:45.098 There's so many things that can do what you need them to do. 00:05:45.108 --> 00:05:47.348 If your client needs e commerce, you can do that. 00:05:47.878 --> 00:05:51.028 If your client needs a booking tool, you can do that. 00:05:51.028 --> 00:05:52.388 They're like, it's all available. 00:05:52.448 --> 00:05:54.698 Whereas if you used different platforms, you'd be a lot more 00:05:54.698 --> 00:05:56.658 limited, and you might get stuck. 00:05:56.658 --> 00:05:58.208 So, yeah, I agree. 00:05:58.208 --> 00:06:01.688 I think WordPress is, you know, I can't think of anything 00:06:02.008 --> 00:06:03.218 that really compares to it. 00:06:03.708 --> 00:06:07.238 Matt: That's, it's, I guess that's also what makes the, the, the 00:06:07.238 --> 00:06:09.008 marketing of WordPress so difficult. 00:06:09.008 --> 00:06:12.008 That was another big topic before a lot of this other stuff 00:06:12.008 --> 00:06:13.898 started to, to hit the news wire. 00:06:14.118 --> 00:06:15.048 what is WordPress? 00:06:15.048 --> 00:06:16.068 Who's it for? 00:06:16.118 --> 00:06:18.818 you know, there's a, a, a strong vocal community of. 00:06:19.298 --> 00:06:22.658 Of service providers out there, people who are building WordPress websites, 00:06:22.658 --> 00:06:26.158 and they're saying, give me the tools that I need to build websites. 00:06:26.478 --> 00:06:31.228 you know, but the essence of WordPress was a blogging and publishing platform. 00:06:31.228 --> 00:06:34.788 It was about the freedom of publishing words onto the Internet, which is also a 00:06:34.788 --> 00:06:37.978 very important thing in these days, right? 00:06:37.978 --> 00:06:40.558 To be able to spin something up and communicate into 00:06:40.598 --> 00:06:41.938 into broadcast this stuff. 00:06:42.638 --> 00:06:44.648 And then people use it for all kinds of other things, right? 00:06:44.648 --> 00:06:46.668 They start, you know, turning it into an app. 00:06:46.688 --> 00:06:48.178 They turn it into a community site. 00:06:48.488 --> 00:06:52.178 There's so many different layers, to WordPress. 00:06:52.878 --> 00:06:58.308 Do you remember, or did you ever see that and say, okay, this is an opportunity for 00:06:58.388 --> 00:07:01.008 product, or did you stumble into product? 00:07:01.028 --> 00:07:04.078 Cause you were like, Ooh, this client stuff is starting to 00:07:04.078 --> 00:07:05.288 weigh down on me a little bit. 00:07:05.988 --> 00:07:08.088 Laura: So kind of a mixture of both. 00:07:08.118 --> 00:07:11.858 So I knew that I didn't want to do client work forever. 00:07:12.358 --> 00:07:19.458 I've always been very big on freedom, so, I didn't want a regular job because 00:07:19.538 --> 00:07:23.858 I didn't want to be tied down working 40 hours a week, you know, for someone else. 00:07:24.278 --> 00:07:25.538 you know, half that time is work. 00:07:25.828 --> 00:07:28.318 Unproductive anyway, but I still would have to sit there. 00:07:28.898 --> 00:07:30.498 So I wanted to work for myself. 00:07:30.586 --> 00:07:34.228 Services was kind of the first step to freedom, but then I quickly 00:07:34.228 --> 00:07:37.318 realized when doing services, you're not really that free. 00:07:37.898 --> 00:07:41.048 So I did the whole, when I was younger, I did the whole digital 00:07:41.048 --> 00:07:42.978 nomad thing for a short while. 00:07:42.988 --> 00:07:43.958 It didn't last very long. 00:07:44.638 --> 00:07:48.188 but it was really hard because clients would actually expect me to basically 00:07:48.208 --> 00:07:51.708 be like a nine to five employee they'd expect to be able to reach me. 00:07:51.923 --> 00:07:55.863 Anytime and, you know, I didn't feel the freedom that I thought I was going 00:07:55.863 --> 00:08:02.773 to feel so I knew I needed to get into something else, where I originally went 00:08:02.783 --> 00:08:07.863 was actually creating a design course for developers, called design academy and. 00:08:08.218 --> 00:08:12.598 Basically that came about because with the companies I was working with, I tended 00:08:12.598 --> 00:08:14.458 to work quite closely with developers. 00:08:14.868 --> 00:08:16.858 for a bit of background, I'm not a developer myself. 00:08:17.048 --> 00:08:18.268 so I would work with developers. 00:08:18.268 --> 00:08:19.688 I'd do the designs, they'd code it. 00:08:20.388 --> 00:08:25.308 And, you know, I'd get to talking to them and they'd all, all of them had a ton 00:08:25.308 --> 00:08:26.918 of side projects that they were doing. 00:08:27.608 --> 00:08:33.168 And they wanted to learn a bit about design and how to make their side 00:08:33.188 --> 00:08:37.648 projects look good enough to get by, but not really turn them into a designer. 00:08:37.648 --> 00:08:39.018 so they could start, you know, selling it. 00:08:39.718 --> 00:08:42.278 So I saw this kind of gap there and I thought, Oh, that's something I can do. 00:08:42.328 --> 00:08:43.378 Cause I've experienced that. 00:08:43.378 --> 00:08:46.878 I know what it's like to not, to not want to be, I never wanted to 00:08:46.888 --> 00:08:49.608 be an award winning designer, I just wanted to make things that. 00:08:50.073 --> 00:08:52.383 Worked well and looked decent. 00:08:52.913 --> 00:08:54.503 so I thought that was a really good thing. 00:08:54.503 --> 00:08:59.563 So I started building my audience around that and creating a course around that. 00:09:00.263 --> 00:09:05.323 But then client portal came about sort of as an accident because it 00:09:05.323 --> 00:09:09.553 was something that I originally made for myself to use with my clients. 00:09:09.733 --> 00:09:15.283 So I was using, I tried project management tools and I was really too small for that. 00:09:15.603 --> 00:09:16.803 Clients didn't wanna use it. 00:09:17.183 --> 00:09:19.643 but I was getting frustrated with the emails coming in. 00:09:20.088 --> 00:09:23.838 Sometimes years later asking me for a file that they'd sent, I'd sent them 00:09:23.838 --> 00:09:28.488 before like a million times, like, can't you just save it or like look yourself? 00:09:28.488 --> 00:09:29.408 It would get really annoying. 00:09:29.798 --> 00:09:31.098 So I was like, I just need a portal. 00:09:31.798 --> 00:09:35.908 So I kind of hacked together this portal and, used it with my clients. 00:09:36.608 --> 00:09:39.618 And at the time I was doing a lot of conference. 00:09:40.318 --> 00:09:43.288 just for no other reason other than really to build my audience, to 00:09:43.288 --> 00:09:48.138 help with this getting me out of services into, products or a course. 00:09:48.278 --> 00:09:52.208 And some of the conferences I spoke at were for freelancers. 00:09:52.798 --> 00:09:54.098 I mentioned this portal. 00:09:54.388 --> 00:09:56.608 And I would say, you know, you could do something like this 00:09:56.608 --> 00:09:57.888 if you've had this problem. 00:09:58.558 --> 00:10:01.458 And the response was just crazy. 00:10:01.518 --> 00:10:03.338 People loved it, like, they wanted to buy it. 00:10:03.348 --> 00:10:06.588 They were asking me, like, can you just make this into a product so I can buy it? 00:10:07.148 --> 00:10:08.978 and I undenied about it for some reason. 00:10:08.988 --> 00:10:10.678 It should have been obvious I should have just gone for it. 00:10:10.728 --> 00:10:13.298 But, eventually enough people convinced me to do it. 00:10:13.688 --> 00:10:15.818 And that's kind of how I got into the product world. 00:10:15.818 --> 00:10:21.468 So it was intentional and not intentional at the same time, if that makes sense. 00:10:22.168 --> 00:10:24.998 Matt: I want to, the website is client portal. 00:10:24.998 --> 00:10:25.738 io. 00:10:25.738 --> 00:10:28.638 We're going to talk about that in more detail in a minute. 00:10:28.698 --> 00:10:31.198 I want to touch back on the courses stuff. 00:10:31.568 --> 00:10:34.948 I've always, I've always had like, you know, again, I've done everything too. 00:10:34.948 --> 00:10:36.368 I've gone from agency. 00:10:36.688 --> 00:10:41.548 to attempting products to doing like media, which I'm doing now and like, 00:10:41.828 --> 00:10:43.458 Hey, Matt, you never did a course. 00:10:43.468 --> 00:10:45.368 It just keeps ringing out in my head. 00:10:45.878 --> 00:10:47.748 Should I steer clear from for that? 00:10:47.938 --> 00:10:52.298 Is that wave over or is there still some validity in launching 00:10:52.298 --> 00:10:53.938 course stuff these days 00:10:54.638 --> 00:10:56.218 Laura: I think there's a lot of validity in it. 00:10:56.218 --> 00:10:59.698 I think it's quite, yeah, I can't, I can't see courses going anywhere. 00:11:00.308 --> 00:11:04.518 I think it's, I sort of hate to say it's, it's kind of an easy sell in a 00:11:04.518 --> 00:11:10.978 way, because courses can be, courses can be a bit of an impulse buy. 00:11:11.308 --> 00:11:13.408 software, I think is a bit more of a commitment. 00:11:13.478 --> 00:11:15.718 If someone wants to buy software, you know, you'll 00:11:15.778 --> 00:11:17.278 tend to subscribe to software. 00:11:17.288 --> 00:11:19.628 You don't buy it, whereas you tend to buy a course. 00:11:19.638 --> 00:11:21.268 It's like a one time thing usually. 00:11:21.818 --> 00:11:26.208 so yeah, I definitely think there's a huge market for it still. 00:11:26.208 --> 00:11:29.668 I know so many people who are course creators doing really, really well with 00:11:29.668 --> 00:11:33.688 it, and people find it valuable because people want to learn from, you know, 00:11:33.718 --> 00:11:35.613 people they, you know, learn from. 00:11:36.313 --> 00:11:41.543 Look up to and admire and just get a bit of an inside scoop onto, you know, 00:11:41.543 --> 00:11:42.843 your knowledge and stuff like that. 00:11:42.843 --> 00:11:44.253 So yeah, I don't think it's going anywhere. 00:11:44.893 --> 00:11:49.623 Matt: when, so the, the, the rapper question is to frame it is, are you 00:11:49.633 --> 00:11:52.053 doing any agency work still today? 00:11:52.093 --> 00:11:55.153 If not, when did you make that? 00:11:55.558 --> 00:11:58.938 Complete shift into focusing on just client portal. 00:11:58.938 --> 00:12:02.678 Like, do you remember the, the, the last client or the last project 00:12:02.678 --> 00:12:03.938 where you're like, I'm done. 00:12:04.278 --> 00:12:06.678 Like I'm just going all in on product. 00:12:06.858 --> 00:12:09.348 So do you still do agency work, dabbling it at all? 00:12:09.368 --> 00:12:11.268 And if not, like, when did you make that leap? 00:12:11.968 --> 00:12:14.258 Laura: So I very occasionally dabble in it. 00:12:14.288 --> 00:12:17.808 I don't have a website for the client work or anything. 00:12:18.248 --> 00:12:25.008 I actually went full time on Client Portal and Design Academy in 2017, which was 00:12:25.008 --> 00:12:26.958 a year after I launched Client Portal. 00:12:27.478 --> 00:12:31.828 but then I still have, there's still some clients who have been really 00:12:31.838 --> 00:12:36.738 long time clients who are really lovely to work with, pretty much 00:12:36.738 --> 00:12:38.378 I think just two, to be honest. 00:12:38.788 --> 00:12:42.568 And it's very occasional, maybe like once a year they might reach 00:12:42.568 --> 00:12:44.018 out and I'll tend to do something. 00:12:44.238 --> 00:12:49.228 With that, but yeah, no, typically I don't advertise any client work. 00:12:49.248 --> 00:12:53.058 And for the most part, I would say, no, I don't do client work. 00:12:53.198 --> 00:12:58.538 the, the problem with client work is often the communication 00:12:58.538 --> 00:13:00.268 aspects and dealing with clients. 00:13:00.278 --> 00:13:03.028 So that can be quite hard, but someone I've worked with before 00:13:03.028 --> 00:13:05.928 who I know really well, I know that's not going to be an issue. 00:13:05.928 --> 00:13:09.148 So I don't mind doing some things and it's, you know, nice to get a little bit 00:13:09.148 --> 00:13:11.968 of extra, extra padding in the income. 00:13:12.343 --> 00:13:12.723 Matt: Yeah. 00:13:13.263 --> 00:13:15.613 And I'm sure client portal itself could. 00:13:16.103 --> 00:13:18.673 Lend itself into client services too, right? 00:13:18.673 --> 00:13:22.763 Like somebody says, Hey, I want to buy this and maybe I need to, to brand it 00:13:22.763 --> 00:13:25.973 or maybe I need to integrate it into WordPress and it doesn't do a thing. 00:13:25.973 --> 00:13:28.683 Like, is there ever that attraction at all to have like a 00:13:28.683 --> 00:13:30.613 professional services installed? 00:13:30.773 --> 00:13:33.543 Like so many other enterprise software companies do. 00:13:33.553 --> 00:13:35.043 Like I remember buying ClickUp. 00:13:35.293 --> 00:13:39.043 At another company that I work for, I don't know, like 20 or so seats and 00:13:39.090 --> 00:13:41.273 click up and it was like, oh, it's great. 00:13:41.273 --> 00:13:42.983 It's, it's so much cheaper than base camp. 00:13:42.983 --> 00:13:44.103 It's like 400 bucks a month. 00:13:44.103 --> 00:13:47.053 And then we signed on and we're like, nobody knows how to use this thing. 00:13:47.063 --> 00:13:51.363 And they, and then they swooped in and said, don't worry for 10, 000. 00:13:51.363 --> 00:13:54.123 We'll train you on how to use it and how to set it up. 00:13:54.123 --> 00:13:56.273 And I was like, where was that in the pricing sheet? 00:13:56.513 --> 00:13:58.033 Like, I didn't know this was going to happen. 00:13:58.303 --> 00:14:02.463 so does that level of services ever call you for a client portal? 00:14:03.163 --> 00:14:07.643 Laura: it has in the past, but the only, the only way I've really done that is back 00:14:07.653 --> 00:14:14.423 before I made it into a WordPress plugin, it was basically a HTML template that was 00:14:14.423 --> 00:14:16.323 kind of, it was kind of like a pre order. 00:14:16.743 --> 00:14:20.448 and I would, you know, say, you know, I'll, I'll brand this for you. 00:14:20.938 --> 00:14:24.378 For an extra, it was only an extra like few hundred dollars or something. 00:14:24.758 --> 00:14:25.518 So I've done that. 00:14:25.808 --> 00:14:31.378 I've thought about, you know, can I, can I offer the service of setting 00:14:31.548 --> 00:14:32.918 up someone's portal for them? 00:14:33.298 --> 00:14:35.678 but I haven't done it because I think I would have to charge 00:14:35.678 --> 00:14:36.798 quite a lot of money for it. 00:14:37.318 --> 00:14:40.738 There'd be quite a lot of discovery trying to figure out, you know, what 00:14:40.738 --> 00:14:44.898 they would need in a portal, how it's all set up and it doesn't, it just doesn't 00:14:44.898 --> 00:14:46.518 sound like something that I want to do. 00:14:46.868 --> 00:14:49.178 so I probably won't go down that. 00:14:49.643 --> 00:14:54.073 root, but it, it, it's definitely a good idea and it could, you know, like you say, 00:14:54.073 --> 00:14:56.083 it could lend it to itself really well. 00:14:56.093 --> 00:14:56.443 So, 00:14:57.143 --> 00:15:00.823 Matt: As I mentioned earlier, the URL is client hyphen portal dot IO. 00:15:01.183 --> 00:15:05.803 who are the, the big SAS enterprise companies that you would compete with? 00:15:05.823 --> 00:15:11.553 Is it something like a click up or a base camp, or is there some enterprise 00:15:11.583 --> 00:15:15.063 type company that people go, Oh, thank God I don't have to spend 00:15:15.063 --> 00:15:16.583 thousands of dollars here anymore. 00:15:16.583 --> 00:15:21.553 I can go buy a one site license, you know, from you for 199 a year. 00:15:21.803 --> 00:15:25.263 Who's the, who are the, the big, 800 pound gorillas in the room? 00:15:25.963 --> 00:15:29.503 Laura: so this is both my favorite question and my least favorite question. 00:15:30.203 --> 00:15:31.873 I don't really have an answer. 00:15:31.933 --> 00:15:34.573 There's, from what I can tell, there's really. 00:15:35.273 --> 00:15:40.113 There's a couple of small competitors ish, but there's no real direct 00:15:40.113 --> 00:15:42.893 competitors and I've looked quite hard. 00:15:43.293 --> 00:15:47.453 you know, it doesn't compete with project management tools because Client 00:15:47.453 --> 00:15:50.593 Portal actually works quite nicely alongside project management tools. 00:15:51.023 --> 00:15:55.553 so the difference is if you have a project management tool, I tend to recommend 00:15:55.553 --> 00:16:00.793 a lot of people are better off using it internally with their team rather 00:16:00.793 --> 00:16:02.363 than bringing their clients into it. 00:16:02.618 --> 00:16:05.088 Because clients don't use it, they don't want to learn it. 00:16:05.088 --> 00:16:06.928 It's kind of a mess. 00:16:07.308 --> 00:16:10.178 but team wise, if you've got like an agency and you've got a team, 00:16:10.178 --> 00:16:11.378 I think they're really useful. 00:16:11.648 --> 00:16:16.308 Client portal is kind of an add on to that, that just gives the client just 00:16:16.358 --> 00:16:21.228 one separate area that they can see, they can see just their deliverables. 00:16:21.238 --> 00:16:25.918 So it's, it's a really simple product in every single competitor, I would 00:16:25.918 --> 00:16:30.728 say that aren't really competitors, do a lot more than that and are 00:16:30.758 --> 00:16:31.948 more in the project management. 00:16:32.398 --> 00:16:36.628 Space, I would say, but Client Portal is not intended for that. 00:16:36.668 --> 00:16:39.448 It's like, but that's also what people love about it. 00:16:39.988 --> 00:16:43.188 you know, they don't want a big project management tool that does everything. 00:16:43.198 --> 00:16:48.818 They already use, you know, Google Docs and all the, all the software 00:16:48.868 --> 00:16:50.308 stack that they already have. 00:16:50.328 --> 00:16:51.538 They, they like that. 00:16:51.548 --> 00:16:54.548 They just want somewhere to keep it all together. 00:16:54.618 --> 00:16:58.178 So there's just not links and files flying around, everywhere. 00:16:58.198 --> 00:16:58.508 So 00:16:59.043 --> 00:17:02.163 Matt: And it's not just agencies, not just freelancers on the who 00:17:02.163 --> 00:17:04.333 we help tab on your website. 00:17:04.553 --> 00:17:08.263 It's a great website, by the way, agencies, schools, law firms, accountants, 00:17:08.303 --> 00:17:12.933 coaches could get you feeling like you're getting pulled in, in maybe 00:17:12.933 --> 00:17:15.183 many directions with feature requests. 00:17:15.503 --> 00:17:17.173 you mentioned earlier that you're not a developer. 00:17:17.173 --> 00:17:19.303 Or we can talk about that in a moment, like how this whole. 00:17:19.498 --> 00:17:21.618 product part came to, came to life. 00:17:21.628 --> 00:17:26.928 But how do you balance maybe the requests from, Oh my God, law firms, I can only 00:17:26.928 --> 00:17:30.898 imagine what they're asking for versus a school who, you know, it's about 00:17:30.898 --> 00:17:34.648 maybe helping children and getting the information in front of, parents. 00:17:34.908 --> 00:17:38.728 So how do you balance the, the feature requests from these different markets? 00:17:39.428 --> 00:17:42.608 Laura: yeah, it's actually not as difficult as it sounds because, you 00:17:42.608 --> 00:17:47.043 know, Because I have a very clear idea of what Client Portal is and what it isn't. 00:17:47.483 --> 00:17:53.563 there's, there's really no features that I would do that need to be, that are 00:17:53.603 --> 00:17:55.793 very specific to one particular industry. 00:17:56.123 --> 00:18:00.235 If I was going to go all in, for example, on accountants, I might add 00:18:00.283 --> 00:18:06.363 some new features that would be more applicable to them, but really it's for 00:18:06.383 --> 00:18:08.198 anyone who needs to start a business. 00:18:08.458 --> 00:18:14.288 Who needs a place for clients or customers or people to see links to 00:18:14.288 --> 00:18:19.948 things, you know, just URLs, files, need to be able to upload files and 00:18:19.948 --> 00:18:23.258 see information, you know, just in pages, just in one simple portal. 00:18:23.258 --> 00:18:29.468 And, you know, simplicity can actually translate to any industry. 00:18:29.488 --> 00:18:33.078 You can, there's, there's so, we have a crazy amount of industries 00:18:33.108 --> 00:18:34.723 that, Use client portal. 00:18:34.723 --> 00:18:40.673 We've got like marine biologists and like furniture, shops, and like just 00:18:40.683 --> 00:18:45.323 the craziest kind of stuff, which from a marketing perspective does make it 00:18:45.333 --> 00:18:49.913 a little bit difficult because when you're, when so many people use it. 00:18:50.293 --> 00:18:55.213 It's, hard to speak to everybody at the same time, but the biggest group 00:18:55.223 --> 00:18:59.153 by far is definitely freelancers and agencies and, you know, consultants 00:18:59.163 --> 00:19:00.233 and that kind of thing still. 00:19:00.858 --> 00:19:04.138 Matt: When you started putting the concept together, you were exiting services. 00:19:04.138 --> 00:19:06.058 You're like, okay, this is the thing I'm going to focus on it. 00:19:06.058 --> 00:19:07.958 You started to build it and people saw it. 00:19:08.258 --> 00:19:12.118 How did you start to really polish up like the code and the development part of it? 00:19:12.128 --> 00:19:15.588 Did you hire somebody from a freelance contractor? 00:19:15.588 --> 00:19:17.158 Did you outsource to another agency? 00:19:17.158 --> 00:19:20.268 How did you start building the actual tech part of this solution? 00:19:20.968 --> 00:19:21.188 Laura: Yeah. 00:19:21.188 --> 00:19:25.068 So this was tricky for me because as I said, I'm not a developer, and. 00:19:25.363 --> 00:19:28.703 So what I needed to do was I needed to raise money to hire a 00:19:28.763 --> 00:19:30.433 developer to make it into a plugin. 00:19:31.013 --> 00:19:34.393 So, what happened was I was speaking at one conference in 00:19:34.393 --> 00:19:39.273 particular and the response was really good for this client portal. 00:19:39.313 --> 00:19:41.713 They went round at the end and said, you know, what was the biggest 00:19:41.713 --> 00:19:43.043 takeaway from this conference? 00:19:43.083 --> 00:19:47.043 And more than 50 percent of the people who answered said, Laura's client 00:19:47.043 --> 00:19:48.913 portal idea, it's, it's really good. 00:19:49.483 --> 00:19:54.233 So the organizer, I guess, saw something there and said, you know, if you want 00:19:54.933 --> 00:19:58.353 If you want to make this into a product, I'd be happy to promote it for you. 00:19:58.983 --> 00:20:01.543 and so I decided to do some pre sales. 00:20:01.553 --> 00:20:05.773 So I say, okay, you can, you know, you went to the conference, you saw this. 00:20:05.893 --> 00:20:12.783 and if you want to buy it, then you can have the HTML template, the CSS, 00:20:12.923 --> 00:20:18.053 that where, how it is at the minute and a little PDF tutorial on, you 00:20:18.053 --> 00:20:19.553 know, how to put it on your website. 00:20:20.013 --> 00:20:22.453 but the idea is that I am doing this. 00:20:22.763 --> 00:20:27.573 in order to invest in a developer to turn it into a WordPress plugin. 00:20:27.573 --> 00:20:30.423 And it wasn't necessarily going to be a WordPress plugin at the start, but I 00:20:30.433 --> 00:20:34.485 asked people what they would prefer and everyone just said WordPress plugin. 00:20:35.373 --> 00:20:40.503 so I knew I, I'd sort of went around into some other groups that I was in 00:20:40.803 --> 00:20:44.483 looking for a developer to just get a quote, cause I wanted to see how much 00:20:44.483 --> 00:20:48.243 I'd need to make from the pre sells in order to do it, it's kind of like 00:20:48.243 --> 00:20:49.823 a Kickstarter in that, like, if I. 00:20:50.523 --> 00:20:54.113 I'd either have to put my own money into it or refund them, 00:20:54.193 --> 00:20:54.983 which I didn't want to do. 00:20:55.683 --> 00:20:59.573 and I found a developer who had already heard of the client portal idea. 00:20:59.763 --> 00:21:03.543 And, similar to what you were saying with the outreach email, actually, 00:21:03.543 --> 00:21:07.713 like everyone replied with the most kind of generic response. 00:21:07.723 --> 00:21:09.193 Sometimes it would just be a number. 00:21:09.893 --> 00:21:12.733 But this one actually just replied with something a bit more personal 00:21:13.023 --> 00:21:15.803 saying, Oh, she'd been following me for a while and she'd heard about 00:21:15.803 --> 00:21:16.853 it and all this kind of stuff. 00:21:16.853 --> 00:21:18.433 So I thought, okay, she sounds great. 00:21:18.933 --> 00:21:20.823 so she quoted me, I think, I can't remember. 00:21:20.823 --> 00:21:23.423 It was probably about three or 4, 000 or something. 00:21:24.123 --> 00:21:29.353 And then I did the pre order and it made, I think it made about 10, 00:21:29.353 --> 00:21:33.783 000, which was more than I needed to, to put the plugin into action. 00:21:33.783 --> 00:21:37.563 So, you know, I hired her, got it made into a plugin and then kind of 00:21:37.563 --> 00:21:40.643 went from there and she's actually still works on client portal. 00:21:40.863 --> 00:21:41.763 to this day. 00:21:42.283 --> 00:21:45.543 not full time, she's still a contractor, but she's worked on it 00:21:45.553 --> 00:21:50.823 since 20, since the first version in 2016 to right now, which is 2024. 00:21:50.823 --> 00:21:51.303 So yeah. 00:21:51.603 --> 00:21:52.443 Matt: Yeah, that's pretty amazing. 00:21:52.833 --> 00:21:54.133 It's really not that hard, right? 00:21:54.133 --> 00:21:58.963 To just be like a human and ask like, Hey, like your stuff. 00:21:58.963 --> 00:21:59.633 Like, Hey man. 00:21:59.633 --> 00:22:02.103 And I don't know if it's just the lesson, definitely not the WordPress 00:22:02.123 --> 00:22:05.663 world because I, I, I grew up in, in sales and stuff like that. 00:22:05.663 --> 00:22:07.813 But certainly in the WordPress world, it's just like a lot of, 00:22:08.273 --> 00:22:09.963 here's my thing, go promote it. 00:22:09.963 --> 00:22:13.934 And, you know, wouldn't it be great if you got a 20, 5 percent 00:22:13.944 --> 00:22:15.264 affiliate commission on that. 00:22:15.264 --> 00:22:15.774 See you later. 00:22:15.774 --> 00:22:16.134 Bye. 00:22:16.164 --> 00:22:19.024 That's just like, where's the, where's the human in this stuff, right? 00:22:19.024 --> 00:22:19.634 It's bad enough. 00:22:19.634 --> 00:22:21.534 We got AI knocking on our door. 00:22:21.854 --> 00:22:24.244 Can't you people be just a little bit nicer these days? 00:22:24.669 --> 00:22:25.059 Laura: Yeah. 00:22:25.069 --> 00:22:28.319 Well, AO has kind of made it worse because now it's getting somewhat 00:22:28.339 --> 00:22:30.439 personal, but you can still tell it's not. 00:22:30.489 --> 00:22:35.149 It's like the copy and paste what you've written in your bio in a DM. 00:22:35.564 --> 00:22:39.904 And you're kind of like, ah, it's closer, but no, it's just, and it's not, it's 00:22:39.904 --> 00:22:43.374 not that hard, it is time consuming, but it's not that time consuming. 00:22:43.414 --> 00:22:45.664 And yeah, it's just surprising. 00:22:46.364 --> 00:22:49.164 Matt: Speaking of AI, how do you evolve this? 00:22:49.294 --> 00:22:51.614 this software, do you have integrations? 00:22:51.614 --> 00:22:54.054 Are you thinking about something like integrating AI? 00:22:54.064 --> 00:22:57.584 Like so many other people are like, how do you think about maybe instead 00:22:57.584 --> 00:23:00.824 of competing or not really finding that competitor that we were talking 00:23:00.824 --> 00:23:04.924 about earlier, but maybe integrating into other platforms, pulling in data. 00:23:05.124 --> 00:23:06.114 Do you do that now? 00:23:06.124 --> 00:23:08.584 How do you think about that evolution of the software? 00:23:09.284 --> 00:23:12.154 Laura: You know, interestingly, I haven't thought about AI and how it 00:23:12.154 --> 00:23:14.284 could be used in the product at all. 00:23:14.404 --> 00:23:16.344 it's probably worth thinking about, to be honest. 00:23:16.414 --> 00:23:21.004 I have quite a clear roadmap in my head of where I want the product to go. 00:23:21.594 --> 00:23:22.764 so the big thing is. 00:23:23.099 --> 00:23:27.009 you know, I'd really love a Zapier integration so I can, you know, pull in 00:23:27.019 --> 00:23:32.139 lots of, an indefinite amount of software and tools that can work with, client 00:23:32.139 --> 00:23:37.469 portal, but we've been really focused on, we redid client portal from the 00:23:37.469 --> 00:23:40.199 ground up, took, did it take two years? 00:23:40.199 --> 00:23:42.859 It took a really long time, but we did it with the block editor. 00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:45.739 So it's now completely used as the block editor. 00:23:45.789 --> 00:23:47.089 And it was such a big help. 00:23:47.189 --> 00:23:50.879 Big project, and it is still ongoing because the block 00:23:50.879 --> 00:23:52.739 editor changes all the time. 00:23:53.439 --> 00:23:58.609 I don't think we were expecting it to be as big a project as it was, but 00:23:58.609 --> 00:24:03.229 it's really nice now because, before it was like your typical WordPress 00:24:03.229 --> 00:24:06.359 plugin, where it's just kind of a bunch of fields and nothing looks 00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:07.869 like how it looks on the front end. 00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:11.069 And now, when you're editing a portal, you're editing it. 00:24:11.469 --> 00:24:15.059 Exactly how it's going to look to the client, which is just super nice. 00:24:15.069 --> 00:24:16.159 So I'm really happy with it. 00:24:16.579 --> 00:24:21.269 But I think we've been so focused honestly on that, that I haven't even thought about 00:24:21.269 --> 00:24:26.729 how AI could benefit client portal at all, but I'm sure it could in some way. 00:24:27.269 --> 00:24:27.599 Matt: It's funny. 00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:29.459 I saw, I didn't spend any time on it. 00:24:29.629 --> 00:24:32.649 I bookmarked it cause I do want to go back to it, but I saw a bunch of 00:24:32.649 --> 00:24:36.959 creators yesterday and I could tell this was like a campaign, like a marketing 00:24:36.959 --> 00:24:38.169 campaign and nothing against it. 00:24:38.169 --> 00:24:41.299 I just happened to as somebody who's in marketing, realizing that it's a 00:24:41.299 --> 00:24:44.069 campaign that's happening in front of my eyes or a bunch of creators 00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:48.289 started talking about this new like AI accounting tool, you know, and I 00:24:48.289 --> 00:24:49.699 went to it, I went to the website. 00:24:49.899 --> 00:24:54.709 And I started looking at it and it's like, Oh yeah, you just sync up your, 00:24:54.719 --> 00:24:57.009 you know, inbox and your payment stuff. 00:24:57.009 --> 00:25:00.759 And AI goes and figures out all like your business receipts and trains 00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:02.519 it and figures out your expenses. 00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:04.839 And even if you're using your personal card, it'll switch it over. 00:25:04.999 --> 00:25:09.379 Like I'm reading, I'm like, like, first of all, there's no way, like I can't even 00:25:09.379 --> 00:25:13.979 get Claude or chat GPT to properly edit. 00:25:14.419 --> 00:25:18.689 Like a WordPress blog post, cause it doesn't know the industry like I know. 00:25:18.689 --> 00:25:22.519 So I can't even really reliably use that tool for writing. 00:25:22.939 --> 00:25:27.759 I don't, this is not going to work and I don't trust it because what's it 00:25:27.769 --> 00:25:30.119 doing with all of my financial data. 00:25:30.369 --> 00:25:33.419 And I just like laughed it off, but I see all these people talking about it. 00:25:33.719 --> 00:25:37.909 it's just, it's just wild AI, not a question, but just like my observations 00:25:37.919 --> 00:25:39.619 of like, and my distrust for like. 00:25:39.834 --> 00:25:42.284 Early AI onset tools, is 00:25:42.329 --> 00:25:42.584 Laura: Yeah. 00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:45.619 Well, the accounting example is, is good because. 00:25:45.849 --> 00:25:47.569 I, like, I do think it would be nice. 00:25:47.569 --> 00:25:50.569 There's so much with accounting that is just tedious that I 00:25:50.599 --> 00:25:53.419 feel like could be done with AI. 00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:57.649 but I'm like, I find myself thinking now, you know, are the 00:25:57.649 --> 00:26:01.029 accountants that I'm using, like, are they going to start using AI? 00:26:01.029 --> 00:26:01.979 Like, am I going to know? 00:26:02.649 --> 00:26:06.779 do I need to be more proactive in checking things over? 00:26:07.179 --> 00:26:10.874 Because the thing I hate about accounting, I'm sure you do too, is that You know, 00:26:10.874 --> 00:26:12.504 all this stuff happens behind the scenes. 00:26:12.504 --> 00:26:15.924 You're not a tax expert, but at the end of the day, you have to put your signature 00:26:16.224 --> 00:26:18.544 at the end of it and sign it all off. 00:26:18.584 --> 00:26:20.204 And it's just terrifying. 00:26:20.344 --> 00:26:23.384 cause you really don't know, like you can't look at everything. 00:26:23.774 --> 00:26:26.554 so I'm just kind of wondering like, are they doing that? 00:26:26.594 --> 00:26:27.674 Are they going to do that? 00:26:27.704 --> 00:26:30.854 Is it going to screw everything up or is it going to be great? 00:26:30.864 --> 00:26:31.814 Or I don't know. 00:26:32.514 --> 00:26:32.824 Matt: yeah. 00:26:33.314 --> 00:26:37.054 in terms and just one other note to about like software development, especially in 00:26:37.054 --> 00:26:42.624 the WordPress world, you mentioned how you are evolving the product to use, you 00:26:42.624 --> 00:26:46.654 know, blocks and like the site editor kind of experience and how fast that 00:26:46.654 --> 00:26:52.624 rapidly changes, which is another like, contention in the WordPress space is that 00:26:52.634 --> 00:26:53.739 you have so many people to work with. 00:26:53.909 --> 00:26:58.299 That are like end users who are saying, God, you know, where's the next feature? 00:26:58.299 --> 00:27:00.609 Why is this so slow to iterate what's happening? 00:27:00.869 --> 00:27:04.999 But for us developers in the backend who are trying to keep a product, 00:27:05.259 --> 00:27:08.379 you know, on parody with that stuff, it is changing rapidly in the 00:27:08.379 --> 00:27:10.329 backend and how it's all working. 00:27:10.719 --> 00:27:15.069 So it's hard to push like front end features when you're, when there's 00:27:15.069 --> 00:27:19.339 still so much uncertainty on the backend compatibility of this stuff. 00:27:19.601 --> 00:27:20.749 my day job is at. 00:27:21.114 --> 00:27:25.354 At gravity forms, and we get a ton of requests from folks who are like, Hey, 00:27:25.354 --> 00:27:30.584 you know, why can't I build this form in the, in the block editor, move fields 00:27:30.584 --> 00:27:34.174 around like, like the blocks and stuff in the block editor using Gutenberg, 00:27:34.544 --> 00:27:38.094 it's just like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, we've been in business for 15 years. 00:27:38.094 --> 00:27:41.549 There's so many people in use cases that use this product. 00:27:41.549 --> 00:27:42.109 Product. 00:27:42.589 --> 00:27:45.789 We can't just say, okay, we'll just take the latest Gutenberg version 00:27:45.789 --> 00:27:48.209 and slap it into gravity forms. 00:27:48.209 --> 00:27:50.549 And it's just going to work fine for, you know, millions 00:27:50.549 --> 00:27:51.869 of WordPress sites out there. 00:27:52.199 --> 00:27:55.899 a lot of folks just don't realize like this underpinning stuff is 00:27:55.899 --> 00:28:00.029 moving kind of quickly, with a lot of uncertainty in the backend of WordPress. 00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:02.779 The front end, maybe not so much, but the backend, certainly 00:28:02.779 --> 00:28:03.589 there's some turbulence. 00:28:04.289 --> 00:28:05.749 Laura: Yeah, I definitely feel that. 00:28:05.749 --> 00:28:10.419 And it's, it's like you say, like, I feel like we haven't pushed as many 00:28:10.419 --> 00:28:15.579 new features as before, but we're not working any less, because you know, 00:28:15.609 --> 00:28:19.649 Gutenberg and everything, every feature that we already have in client portal. 00:28:20.259 --> 00:28:22.249 It works now slightly differently. 00:28:22.349 --> 00:28:26.569 So, you know, we have kind of, we spent a long time testing it all. 00:28:26.939 --> 00:28:29.679 but as you know, with WordPress, everyone has different setups. 00:28:29.679 --> 00:28:34.149 So we found issues if you're, if you have a non block editor theme, or, 00:28:34.159 --> 00:28:37.299 you know, all these different things that kind of cropped up that we 00:28:37.299 --> 00:28:40.349 thought were When we had the classic editor, we'd sort of ironed out. 00:28:40.729 --> 00:28:43.209 It's kind of like now we're ironing them out again. 00:28:43.229 --> 00:28:45.719 And then for every single feature we've got, we've got like a 00:28:45.719 --> 00:28:49.359 WooCommerce integration and then WooCommerce recently changed. 00:28:49.829 --> 00:28:50.899 and it kind of broke everything. 00:28:50.899 --> 00:28:52.429 So we're like, okay, now we've got to fix this. 00:28:53.129 --> 00:28:57.179 And it's just like, it feels like it's not gonna end. 00:28:57.229 --> 00:29:00.329 but if you look at like our changelog and stuff and I, you 00:29:00.329 --> 00:29:02.999 know, write like a quarterly email. 00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:06.549 With, you know, things that have happened, we've done a lot. 00:29:07.249 --> 00:29:11.989 It just, it's not very marketing worthy things that we're doing, but 00:29:11.989 --> 00:29:13.379 they're needed, they're necessary. 00:29:13.379 --> 00:29:17.469 Like we can't, I couldn't in good conscience ship a new feature without 00:29:17.489 --> 00:29:19.539 having these basic things sorted. 00:29:19.629 --> 00:29:21.589 So it's, it's difficult for now. 00:29:22.209 --> 00:29:25.149 Matt: Once again, the URL is client portal. 00:29:25.149 --> 00:29:25.899 io. 00:29:25.909 --> 00:29:26.279 Starts at 1. 00:29:26.549 --> 00:29:28.059 99 for a single site, 3. 00:29:28.059 --> 00:29:33.049 99 for a unlimited site license to use across multiple sites. 00:29:33.549 --> 00:29:35.009 What's the biggest advantage? 00:29:35.009 --> 00:29:37.189 If somebody is out there and they're a freelancer, they've got 00:29:37.239 --> 00:29:41.309 a dozen plus customers, things are getting a little bit unruly. 00:29:41.649 --> 00:29:43.089 They purchase client portal. 00:29:43.089 --> 00:29:48.239 What's, what do you think the immediate win is for that freelancer out there doing 00:29:48.239 --> 00:29:50.279 a bunch of things with their clients? 00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:51.549 They're sending them to click up. 00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:52.789 They're sending them a Google doc. 00:29:52.789 --> 00:29:55.159 They're sending them a e signature platform. 00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:58.569 What's the big win for client portal for that use case? 00:29:59.269 --> 00:29:59.469 Laura: Yeah. 00:29:59.469 --> 00:30:04.669 So one thing that I hear constantly as the big win is that they just look 00:30:04.709 --> 00:30:06.999 and feel a lot more professional. 00:30:07.459 --> 00:30:09.639 they like how Client Portal makes them look. 00:30:09.979 --> 00:30:12.789 What's really nice about the fact that it's a WordPress plugin and not a Sass, 00:30:12.789 --> 00:30:14.559 is that it's completely on your website. 00:30:14.979 --> 00:30:19.279 It's pretty easy to brand, so it can look like, you know, it can, it doesn't 00:30:19.289 --> 00:30:22.799 look like Client Portal, it can look like an extension of your website. 00:30:23.499 --> 00:30:27.279 and just having something where, that you can give clients when you 00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:30.969 first onboard them, seems to give people quite a lot of confidence. 00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:35.309 in their process, because they can also, they can buy portals. 00:30:35.309 --> 00:30:38.379 So if they use, WooCommerce, what you can do, if you're a freelancer, 00:30:38.789 --> 00:30:42.489 you can have your deposit or something go through WooCommerce. 00:30:42.889 --> 00:30:44.949 This is great if you have like product tie services. 00:30:45.349 --> 00:30:46.549 and then when they pay. 00:30:46.869 --> 00:30:51.049 Their portal is already set up for them with all their onboarding documents, the 00:30:51.059 --> 00:30:53.179 intake questionnaires already loaded in. 00:30:53.529 --> 00:30:54.979 it's like private for them. 00:30:55.299 --> 00:30:57.439 and it's just like a really nice experience. 00:30:57.489 --> 00:31:02.789 but yeah, I think that's like the number one thing we hear is that it's made them 00:31:03.019 --> 00:31:06.739 feel a lot more confident and feel a lot more professional with their clients. 00:31:07.069 --> 00:31:08.999 Matt: Is that, sorry, one other technical question. 00:31:09.019 --> 00:31:12.899 Is that like an integration that happens with, let's say WooCommerce, the 00:31:12.899 --> 00:31:17.539 purchase happens and that unlocks the membership account for them or the, or 00:31:17.539 --> 00:31:19.319 the client dashboard account for them? 00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:20.179 Is that how that works? 00:31:20.179 --> 00:31:22.059 Or is there some other like trigger happening? 00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:24.819 Laura: Yeah, it's pretty much just straight with WooCommerce. 00:31:24.849 --> 00:31:27.709 We only have WooCommerce at the minute, but we'd love to integrate. 00:31:28.029 --> 00:31:30.339 You know, directly with like Stripe or something like that. 00:31:30.789 --> 00:31:34.809 so yeah, when you, when you buy, you can either get added to a pub, 00:31:34.849 --> 00:31:39.379 you can either get added to a portal with lots of other people in, so, you 00:31:39.379 --> 00:31:44.219 know, you can technically, it's not courseware, but you can use it as a 00:31:44.219 --> 00:31:46.569 very lightweight courseware platform. 00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:50.369 I don't really market it as courseware to be honest, because, you know, 00:31:50.379 --> 00:31:52.519 it doesn't have like learner management and things like that. 00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:58.084 But, you know, if you had, you know, a educational guide, for example, that you 00:31:58.084 --> 00:32:02.004 wanted to sell as like an add on to your clients, they could all be added to that 00:32:02.004 --> 00:32:03.874 same portal when they buy in WooCommerce. 00:32:03.894 --> 00:32:08.954 If they get refunded, they'll lose access to it, or you can choose to, for them 00:32:08.954 --> 00:32:13.710 to have their own individual portal set up that's completely private for them. 00:32:13.914 --> 00:32:19.024 So it's got, you know, just the onboarding documents and the, the rest 00:32:19.024 --> 00:32:20.584 of the project that isn't filled in. 00:32:20.929 --> 00:32:24.089 It still shows in the portal, but it's kind of grayed out so that the client 00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:25.499 knows that this is what's coming. 00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:28.849 They just can't, you know, access it yet because it's not in there. 00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:31.809 so it's, yeah, it's pretty flexible and it's, it's, pretty nice. 00:32:32.109 --> 00:32:32.474 Matt: Awesome. 00:32:32.604 --> 00:32:33.204 Awesome stuff. 00:32:33.204 --> 00:32:35.414 Everyone listening, client portal. 00:32:36.114 --> 00:32:39.754 io, Laura Elizabeth, thanks for hanging out with us today and 00:32:39.754 --> 00:32:44.324 letting us know who you are and what you do, in the WordPress space. 00:32:44.494 --> 00:32:47.164 Anywhere else you want folks to go to learn a little bit more about you? 00:32:47.864 --> 00:32:51.634 Laura: pretty much the only place I'm remotely active on is Twitter or X. 00:32:51.674 --> 00:32:54.664 So you can find me on there at Laura Liz Dunn. 00:32:54.674 --> 00:32:58.774 So E L I Z, it's half my middle name, Dunn, D U N N. 00:32:59.474 --> 00:33:00.724 yeah, that's pretty much it. 00:33:00.724 --> 00:33:02.184 Client portal and, X. 00:33:02.849 --> 00:33:03.399 Matt: Awesome stuff. 00:33:03.429 --> 00:33:04.939 Everybody else, the wpminute. 00:33:04.959 --> 00:33:05.919 com, the wpminute. 00:33:05.919 --> 00:33:07.629 com slash subscribe. 00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:10.449 Thanks for listening and we'll see you in the next episode.