1 00:00:05,779 --> 00:00:10,660 Hello and welcome to another episode of In-Orbit, the podcast exploring how 2 00:00:10,700 --> 00:00:14,980 technology from space is empowering a better world, brought to you by 3 00:00:14,980 --> 00:00:16,879 the Satellite Applications Catapult. 4 00:00:17,240 --> 00:00:21,220 I'm your host, Dallas Campbell, and in today's episode we are diving 5 00:00:21,479 --> 00:00:26,645 into the UK Space Agency Unlocking Space for Business Programme, 6 00:00:27,045 --> 00:00:31,905 focusing on its impact on financial services and transport and logistics. 7 00:00:32,244 --> 00:00:36,475 I'm joined in the studio by Sean McCarthy, Head of Market Intelligence at 8 00:00:36,475 --> 00:00:41,035 the Satellite Applications Catapult and remotely, we have Laura Bealin Kelly, 9 00:00:41,425 --> 00:00:46,944 Unlocking Space for Business Project Lead at the UK Space Agency and Jocelyn 10 00:00:46,944 --> 00:00:52,864 Barker, a consultant in PWC's Space Practice with a focus on sustainability. 11 00:00:53,705 --> 00:00:58,995 By tapping into satellite derived data, the financial services and transport 12 00:00:59,005 --> 00:01:04,584 and logistics sector are experiencing a revolution, from optimising supply chains 13 00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:09,320 to enhancing investment strategies, the Unlocking Space for Business Programme 14 00:01:09,369 --> 00:01:13,589 aims to support companies to deliver this growth through the integration of 15 00:01:13,690 --> 00:01:16,419 innovative satellite data and services. 16 00:01:18,810 --> 00:01:25,260 I have in front of me a 28 page document from the UK Space Agency 17 00:01:25,260 --> 00:01:29,009 called Introduction to the Unlocking Space for Business programme. 18 00:01:29,029 --> 00:01:30,159 So where do we start with this? 19 00:01:30,220 --> 00:01:34,550 The Unlocking Space for Business Programme is a new pilot programme run by the UK 20 00:01:34,550 --> 00:01:39,330 Space Agency with delivery partners PWC and the Satellite Applications Catapult 21 00:01:39,790 --> 00:01:43,520 and it's trying to do a couple of things within an 18 month time frame. 22 00:01:44,070 --> 00:01:48,930 It's really trying to get businesses in two particular sectors, so financial 23 00:01:48,930 --> 00:01:52,740 services and transport logistics to understand the value of using 24 00:01:52,740 --> 00:01:54,420 satellite data and services for them. 25 00:01:55,009 --> 00:01:59,350 So trying to kind of support the space sector through supporting businesses. 26 00:01:59,540 --> 00:02:02,409 So we're still working towards catalysing investment into the space 27 00:02:02,420 --> 00:02:05,669 sector, but we're helping businesses to really understand the value of 28 00:02:05,670 --> 00:02:09,284 satellite data and how they can actually use it within their businesses. 29 00:02:09,380 --> 00:02:11,799 Okay, well it sounds reasonable, what kind of businesses? 30 00:02:11,850 --> 00:02:13,980 I mean, when you say businesses, all businesses? 31 00:02:14,010 --> 00:02:16,130 Like if I ran a sandwich shop, is that going to be..? 32 00:02:16,130 --> 00:02:20,740 This particular programme is aimed at the finance sector and 33 00:02:20,750 --> 00:02:22,030 the transport and logistics. 34 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:26,200 So you've got finance, we look at the banking, insurance, asset 35 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,499 management, that kind of thing and the transport sector is, we're 36 00:02:30,499 --> 00:02:34,470 considering maritime, surface transport, road and rail, that sort of thing. 37 00:02:34,470 --> 00:02:35,100 So we call that... 38 00:02:35,100 --> 00:02:35,810 Not space. 39 00:02:35,860 --> 00:02:36,110 PNT. 40 00:02:36,390 --> 00:02:38,220 Sean's shaking... 41 00:02:38,250 --> 00:02:38,700 Isn't that? 42 00:02:38,985 --> 00:02:43,255 Well, PNT is just Position, Navigation and Timing, so that's like GPS. 43 00:02:43,775 --> 00:02:47,585 But the programme's actually looking at all of the space services. 44 00:02:47,845 --> 00:02:53,315 So it would be Earth Observation, it would be PNT, Position, Navigation and Timing 45 00:02:53,604 --> 00:03:00,645 and SATCOMs and within Earth Observation, you'd have weather data coming from radar 46 00:03:00,645 --> 00:03:06,165 or optical satellites, so it's the whole gambit of satellite technology, really. 47 00:03:06,275 --> 00:03:08,505 And so what is the aim? 48 00:03:08,505 --> 00:03:13,195 Is it to get more companies thinking about using space data? 49 00:03:13,945 --> 00:03:16,144 Like, are not enough companies doing it now? 50 00:03:16,210 --> 00:03:21,350 Well, one of the challenges that is being addressed by the programme is the 51 00:03:21,350 --> 00:03:27,480 fact that quite a lot of space companies have come from technologists who may 52 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,080 not have worked in the banking sector. 53 00:03:29,390 --> 00:03:34,260 So there's a bit of a translation that needs to be made between the technology 54 00:03:34,450 --> 00:03:38,130 and the needs of the banking world or the needs of the finance sector and that's 55 00:03:38,130 --> 00:03:39,910 always proved to be difficult in the past. 56 00:03:39,910 --> 00:03:44,040 So the space agencies come up with this great scheme to help bridge that gap. 57 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,155 Okay, the key word is unlocking, how is it going to be unlocking? 58 00:03:48,155 --> 00:03:50,845 Like, what's the key and how does the mechanism work? 59 00:03:50,995 --> 00:03:53,405 I think there's a couple of things really, I wouldn't say there's one 60 00:03:53,405 --> 00:03:55,485 specific key, there's a couple of keys. 61 00:03:55,795 --> 00:04:00,405 So I think it's as Sean said, some of the kind of the suppliers who are out there 62 00:04:00,425 --> 00:04:04,104 at the moment, they can present solutions in really technical language and that 63 00:04:04,104 --> 00:04:07,465 can be a bit of a barrier sometimes for businesses and actually understanding 64 00:04:07,695 --> 00:04:09,115 how they can use satellite data. 65 00:04:09,515 --> 00:04:14,045 So there's a bit of an education and an awareness raising piece around 66 00:04:15,110 --> 00:04:18,690 what's actually out there, what's available and how it can solve the real 67 00:04:18,690 --> 00:04:20,070 world problems that businesses have. 68 00:04:20,289 --> 00:04:24,220 I think to add to Laura's point, we've kind of, prior to this programme, did 69 00:04:24,220 --> 00:04:29,189 some work to understand the key, I guess the key barriers for organisations to 70 00:04:29,189 --> 00:04:32,890 realise the potential benefits that they can derive from satellite data 71 00:04:33,330 --> 00:04:36,679 and this, from the demand side and from end users, there's definitely this lack 72 00:04:36,689 --> 00:04:40,850 of awareness and misconception as to what satellite opportunities may even 73 00:04:40,850 --> 00:04:44,319 be relevant to their business and I think we'll definitely dive into it 74 00:04:44,319 --> 00:04:47,829 more, but there's almost an infinite number of use cases as more services 75 00:04:47,829 --> 00:04:52,500 become available and a lot of end users who could absolutely benefit from this 76 00:04:52,729 --> 00:04:58,280 still often see space and satellites as too expensive for a start and costs 77 00:04:58,280 --> 00:05:03,290 are hugely reducing and continuing to do so, but also too futuristic. 78 00:05:03,710 --> 00:05:07,230 So when you've got to think, especially from a commercial perspective, in 79 00:05:07,230 --> 00:05:11,630 terms of ROI and how companies can commercially benefit from it, I don't 80 00:05:11,669 --> 00:05:15,180 think that information is necessarily presented to decision makers in a way 81 00:05:15,180 --> 00:05:19,850 that's evidence based, easy to digest, so maybe not as technical as they don't 82 00:05:19,889 --> 00:05:23,339 need to know the real technicalities of it and we love to talk about it 83 00:05:23,339 --> 00:05:25,079 because we all find it very interesting. 84 00:05:25,085 --> 00:05:28,995 It's brilliant and actually on page one of that PDF that is open on 85 00:05:28,995 --> 00:05:33,924 my computer, 17 percent of UK GDP comes from what we do in space. 86 00:05:34,135 --> 00:05:37,354 That's a heck of a chunk and it's a heck of a chunk for people not to 87 00:05:37,354 --> 00:05:39,744 kind of know that's there and is... 88 00:05:39,820 --> 00:05:43,419 If you think of the space services like a utility, like electricity or 89 00:05:43,419 --> 00:05:49,330 gas or water, it's providing data of all different sorts and so many 90 00:05:49,330 --> 00:05:51,049 different organisations are using this. 91 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:57,329 Well, organisations and individuals, so GPS, communications, Google 92 00:05:57,329 --> 00:05:58,980 Earth is being used by everyone. 93 00:05:59,405 --> 00:06:00,245 Yes, you're right. 94 00:06:00,265 --> 00:06:02,725 Actually, well, this, maybe this is a good point before we sort 95 00:06:02,725 --> 00:06:05,895 of leap into what this particular programme is going to be doing. 96 00:06:06,355 --> 00:06:10,015 Let's think about understanding the satellite ecosystem. 97 00:06:10,105 --> 00:06:12,975 If you are like, we've got satellites up there, what are they doing? 98 00:06:12,975 --> 00:06:17,654 What are the kind of the main big headlines of what satellites do for us? 99 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,040 As we've said, you've got the sort of observing satellites, the remote 100 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,300 sensing satellites, they were... 101 00:06:23,314 --> 00:06:24,414 So cameras in the sky. 102 00:06:24,414 --> 00:06:28,425 Cameras in the sky, but if you think of it more as sensors in the sky 103 00:06:28,445 --> 00:06:34,225 because it's not just optical, it's radar, it's infrared, it's literally a 104 00:06:34,225 --> 00:06:36,764 spectrum of sensors that are up there. 105 00:06:37,295 --> 00:06:41,974 Traditionally, those satellites would have been the big, bus sized satellites 106 00:06:41,974 --> 00:06:47,085 that were sent up by the military or the government or for scientists' use. 107 00:06:47,405 --> 00:06:53,390 But more recently, there's been the new space movement if you like, whereby 108 00:06:53,390 --> 00:06:57,560 things have become commercialised, so companies are sending up satellites and... 109 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,249 So things like Google Earth, those sorts of images of the Earth... 110 00:07:01,509 --> 00:07:06,740 Yes, well actually the Google Earth imagery, a lot of that's coming from some 111 00:07:06,740 --> 00:07:08,990 of the traditional players like Airbus. 112 00:07:09,650 --> 00:07:13,579 But I think the main distinction on the earth observation bit, we're not talking 113 00:07:13,584 --> 00:07:17,944 about the communications piece, so on Earth observation, you've got over a 114 00:07:17,944 --> 00:07:23,744 thousand satellites up there and there, there are a couple of hundred companies 115 00:07:24,054 --> 00:07:28,694 that own the satellites and then there's another ecosystem of the people that 116 00:07:28,694 --> 00:07:33,094 take that data and add value to it and then serve that back to the end users. 117 00:07:33,094 --> 00:07:36,549 So just very briefly while we're on satellite imagery and earth observation, 118 00:07:37,199 --> 00:07:41,669 very briefly, a couple of good examples, just so listeners can visualise what 119 00:07:41,669 --> 00:07:44,709 we're talking about, the types of things that we do with satellite imagery. 120 00:07:44,794 --> 00:07:49,534 There's, I mean, there really is hundreds of use cases when it comes to just Earth 121 00:07:49,534 --> 00:07:54,015 Observation Data because you can see so much and on such huge timescales, I think 122 00:07:54,015 --> 00:07:57,974 that what's so fantastic about using Earth Observation Data is you can date it back, 123 00:07:58,184 --> 00:08:02,304 you have historical data sets so you can compare and contrast changes over time. 124 00:08:02,819 --> 00:08:06,679 I think some key use cases that we've found from, I mean, across transport 125 00:08:06,679 --> 00:08:12,049 logistics and financial services is the use of tracking weather risks and 126 00:08:12,049 --> 00:08:16,599 natural hazard risks, so flood risk, wildfire risk, droughts, you can track 127 00:08:16,659 --> 00:08:21,109 changes in time, you can predict, you can build models and predict how, which 128 00:08:21,109 --> 00:08:25,083 areas might be at risk, what assets might be at risk, and then mitigate that. 129 00:08:25,505 --> 00:08:28,875 For people to visualise this, it would be the imagery you're getting 130 00:08:28,875 --> 00:08:30,834 of forests being burnt down. 131 00:08:31,115 --> 00:08:33,015 You know, and you're seeing these huge scars, and that, 132 00:08:33,104 --> 00:08:34,444 that can be seen from space. 133 00:08:34,834 --> 00:08:38,824 Ice flows, that's seen from space and of course, all the weather satellites with 134 00:08:39,164 --> 00:08:44,695 typhoons and tsunamis and, that, those are all satellites providing information. 135 00:08:44,735 --> 00:08:49,930 But what has changed recently and because some forms of satellites have been around 136 00:08:49,930 --> 00:08:54,660 but for 40 years you can look at change over a longer period so you can see where 137 00:08:54,660 --> 00:09:00,199 forests has been cut down or more you know in a shorter type of span you can 138 00:09:00,199 --> 00:09:05,579 look at seasonality so you can actually look at harvests and agriculture and see 139 00:09:05,579 --> 00:09:13,650 how wheat is growing or you can actually see how busy or how cities are growing, 140 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,470 shanty towns things like that all of those things can be picked up quite easily. 141 00:09:18,470 --> 00:09:19,150 It's unbelievable. 142 00:09:19,224 --> 00:09:22,834 So satellite imagery, Earth Observation, yes, you mentioned it, Sean, before, 143 00:09:23,134 --> 00:09:26,884 things like connectivity, communications, that's the other big sort of area. 144 00:09:26,884 --> 00:09:28,034 Where are we now with that? 145 00:09:28,045 --> 00:09:30,244 I mean, from kind of Telstar 146 00:09:30,659 --> 00:09:31,109 Oh right. 147 00:09:31,144 --> 00:09:32,394 Back in the dark ages. 148 00:09:33,269 --> 00:09:33,829 yeah, yeah. 149 00:09:34,334 --> 00:09:41,249 Some of the earliest uses for satellite communications were maritime uses. 150 00:09:41,419 --> 00:09:45,589 So how do you communicate with a vessel once it's gone over the horizon? 151 00:09:46,169 --> 00:09:48,329 Satellites are really the only way of doing that. 152 00:09:48,709 --> 00:09:54,545 So traditionally, there's been a lot of communications for shipping, as 153 00:09:54,545 --> 00:09:59,484 an example, but those at the time required very large antennas or dishes 154 00:09:59,494 --> 00:10:03,634 to be stuck on top of a large boat, so as if you can reduce the size 155 00:10:03,634 --> 00:10:07,894 of the antenna, then you can get it onto a truck or a smaller vehicle. 156 00:10:07,924 --> 00:10:11,074 We're still talking about sort of mobile things there, but... 157 00:10:11,334 --> 00:10:16,544 so you've got new companies entering into the market with... 158 00:10:16,734 --> 00:10:21,194 so it creates competition, so the cost of satellite communications 159 00:10:21,224 --> 00:10:25,435 goes down and so it's not just for emergency services anymore, it can be 160 00:10:25,444 --> 00:10:27,774 used for businesses around the world. 161 00:10:27,824 --> 00:10:28,074 Okay. 162 00:10:28,144 --> 00:10:30,984 So Imagery, Connectivity, and Communications and the other one we 163 00:10:31,054 --> 00:10:36,024 briefly mentioned I wanted to talk about is PNT, Position, Navigation and Timing, 164 00:10:36,404 --> 00:10:39,474 which is not, my mum hasn't heard of that. 165 00:10:39,494 --> 00:10:40,244 So what does... 166 00:10:40,244 --> 00:10:48,049 That is GPS, so that's the, yeah, and the spacey world calls it GNSS, which 167 00:10:48,049 --> 00:10:51,249 is Global Navigation Satellite System. 168 00:10:51,415 --> 00:10:54,854 The timing bit I'm interested in this idea of sort of timing... 169 00:10:55,169 --> 00:10:58,209 Well this takes you back to your physics and your maths. 170 00:10:58,489 --> 00:11:02,944 It's all about the time a signal takes to get from the satellite to the ground. 171 00:11:02,984 --> 00:11:07,074 So there's a clock on all the positioning satellites and you're just working 172 00:11:07,074 --> 00:11:11,164 out how much time passes between you moving from one place to the next 173 00:11:11,194 --> 00:11:12,764 and you triangulate that, so it's... 174 00:11:13,059 --> 00:11:16,049 And this is particularly important for financial services, which we'll 175 00:11:16,049 --> 00:11:18,369 sort of come to in a moment but I just wanted to get a bit of an idea 176 00:11:18,369 --> 00:11:20,899 of like satellites, they're useful. 177 00:11:21,029 --> 00:11:21,359 Yes. 178 00:11:21,719 --> 00:11:24,579 All civilization is now utterly dependent on... 179 00:11:24,719 --> 00:11:27,799 And new ones are being added all the time, that's the point. 180 00:11:27,799 --> 00:11:34,919 It's not static, it's an evolving infrastructure and new scientists will 181 00:11:34,919 --> 00:11:39,319 look at the, you know, light spectrum and say, actually, we haven't got 182 00:11:39,339 --> 00:11:42,949 much on ultraviolet, let's see what happens if we put a sensor up there. 183 00:11:43,759 --> 00:11:45,589 That wouldn't work, by the way, but you know. 184 00:11:46,029 --> 00:11:50,149 Okay, I'm a company, where do you buy data and services from if you're a 185 00:11:50,149 --> 00:11:54,299 company and it's like, okay, I want to tap into this great mine of information 186 00:11:54,299 --> 00:11:57,219 and knowledge and how do I do that? 187 00:11:57,524 --> 00:11:59,434 There's kind of a couple of different routes. 188 00:11:59,614 --> 00:12:02,394 So some of the things that we've, been talking about in this programme 189 00:12:02,414 --> 00:12:07,034 is, you know, what route is kind of best for different types of use cases. 190 00:12:07,044 --> 00:12:11,624 So you've got companies, space suppliers who provide unrefined data. 191 00:12:11,934 --> 00:12:13,034 So it's pretty raw data. 192 00:12:13,034 --> 00:12:17,629 It's like the raw data or the raw images and then that's for, you know, for sale 193 00:12:17,629 --> 00:12:21,549 for a business to do what they want with that and put their own analysis on top of 194 00:12:21,549 --> 00:12:25,939 that, you might also have a space supplier who kind of takes it a step further and 195 00:12:25,939 --> 00:12:28,039 is able to provide more refined data. 196 00:12:28,469 --> 00:12:33,479 So data that's perhaps been archived, it's been processed, it's ready to be 197 00:12:33,479 --> 00:12:38,259 analysed, or it might be overlaid with a different type of data set and then 198 00:12:38,259 --> 00:12:41,499 kind of on the far end, you've got companies who provide more insights. 199 00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:45,259 So, you know, they've already done the analysis, they've already done the 200 00:12:45,259 --> 00:12:49,529 kind of quantitative analysis, they've analysed the data and they can provide, 201 00:12:49,529 --> 00:12:53,929 you know, dashboards, narrative around what the data is saying to help make 202 00:12:53,939 --> 00:12:57,029 those business decisions so that the company can really just take that 203 00:12:57,039 --> 00:13:00,259 on and doesn't have to do any of the analysis specifically themselves. 204 00:13:00,489 --> 00:13:03,729 Okay, so yeah you can sort of, yeah, a suite of different options 205 00:13:03,729 --> 00:13:07,489 depending on what it is that you want to do and presumably if you've got 206 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,479 your own analysts in your company, they can do that or you can buy 207 00:13:11,479 --> 00:13:12,919 that as a separate thing or use it. 208 00:13:13,474 --> 00:13:18,304 That's a very important consideration for companies that want to use remote 209 00:13:18,324 --> 00:13:19,994 sensing or Earth Observation Data. 210 00:13:20,224 --> 00:13:24,474 Do you have the geospatial analysts or the mathematicians that can use that 211 00:13:24,474 --> 00:13:30,604 data, or do you want to buy data that's already been processed and already 212 00:13:30,614 --> 00:13:35,224 has some analytics around it and then just add your value to that data? 213 00:13:35,594 --> 00:13:43,074 What we're finding is that, the large satellite operators that produce data, are 214 00:13:43,104 --> 00:13:46,254 tending to want to work through a market. 215 00:13:46,264 --> 00:13:49,934 So they're companies, off the top of my head, there happens to be 216 00:13:49,934 --> 00:13:51,654 one in Harwell called Giacento. 217 00:13:51,994 --> 00:13:55,184 They can serve up data from a number of different satellite 218 00:13:55,254 --> 00:13:59,334 operators, so that makes it much easier to use, you don't have to 219 00:13:59,694 --> 00:14:01,324 understand how to process the data. 220 00:14:02,274 --> 00:14:06,274 Okay, so satellites are useful, you can buy data in various different 221 00:14:06,274 --> 00:14:07,804 forms depending on your needs. 222 00:14:08,194 --> 00:14:11,954 Perhaps somebody could tell us a little bit about why or how satellite imagery 223 00:14:12,324 --> 00:14:18,079 is contributing to the UK sustainable finance agenda because sustainability 224 00:14:18,079 --> 00:14:21,209 is the other, the big thing that I want to talk a little bit about. 225 00:14:21,769 --> 00:14:24,509 I don't know, sustainability and finance, those two things aren't 226 00:14:24,549 --> 00:14:25,839 often perceived to go together. 227 00:14:25,879 --> 00:14:29,399 We've been speaking to a lot of finance companies, so you know, the banks, the 228 00:14:29,409 --> 00:14:34,699 insurance companies, asset managers and what surprised me was how interested 229 00:14:34,979 --> 00:14:40,049 they are in understanding and supporting the whole Environmental, Social and 230 00:14:40,049 --> 00:14:45,289 Governance, the ESG agenda and sustainable finance, they all see it as, you know, 231 00:14:45,299 --> 00:14:50,839 an important driver for their development in the future and what they need, 232 00:14:51,219 --> 00:14:56,289 what the banks need and the insurance companies is reliable evidence about 233 00:14:56,299 --> 00:14:58,289 what's happening in the environment. 234 00:14:58,569 --> 00:15:03,369 We mentioned earlier about sort of forestry and changes, but they need 235 00:15:03,379 --> 00:15:08,379 to know whether the organisations they're giving loans to are 236 00:15:08,379 --> 00:15:12,289 operating sustainably, you know, are they going to be flooded out? 237 00:15:12,484 --> 00:15:15,494 Or are they going to do something that's going to impact 238 00:15:15,514 --> 00:15:16,914 the environment around them? 239 00:15:16,914 --> 00:15:22,964 This is the double materiality, I think it's that, Joss was telling me about this! 240 00:15:22,994 --> 00:15:24,354 Joss, tell us about, what's it called? 241 00:15:24,354 --> 00:15:24,684 Double...? 242 00:15:25,034 --> 00:15:25,844 Double materiality. 243 00:15:25,884 --> 00:15:27,094 Double materiality. 244 00:15:27,094 --> 00:15:31,654 So it's essentially, it's often shown with a very easy diagram of, if you have 245 00:15:31,654 --> 00:15:35,904 kind of two sides to it, one of them is your bank or your private institution 246 00:15:35,904 --> 00:15:39,144 that they're funding or they're investing in and then the environment being on 247 00:15:39,144 --> 00:15:42,979 the other side and you've got an arrow from the bank to the environment and 248 00:15:42,979 --> 00:15:47,369 so that's the kind of outside impact that the bank or what it's financing 249 00:15:47,369 --> 00:15:51,369 is having on the environment and then it's that outside in which is what the 250 00:15:51,369 --> 00:15:54,679 climate is having an effect on the bank or the assets that it's invested in. 251 00:15:55,009 --> 00:15:58,649 So it's the direct release of emissions or then the climatic effects i. 252 00:15:58,649 --> 00:15:58,739 e. 253 00:15:58,739 --> 00:16:02,099 flooding, fires and then the damage that will do and then kind of, you could 254 00:16:02,099 --> 00:16:06,399 take those steps to mitigate, so you can reduce your emissions or your climate 255 00:16:06,689 --> 00:16:10,499 impacts, your environmental damage, your biodiversity damage from one end 256 00:16:10,509 --> 00:16:12,739 and then it's that protecting yourself. 257 00:16:13,129 --> 00:16:17,489 I guess, yeah, mitigating any of those risks, preparing yourself for the effects 258 00:16:17,489 --> 00:16:18,389 that the climate will have on you. 259 00:16:18,524 --> 00:16:20,394 And it is, you know, sustainable finance. 260 00:16:20,394 --> 00:16:22,384 Is that something that's driven by the consumer? 261 00:16:22,384 --> 00:16:26,164 Is it a consumer saying, we want our financial institutions to be much more 262 00:16:26,194 --> 00:16:28,294 sustainable and ecologically aware? 263 00:16:28,344 --> 00:16:30,494 Or are there financial incentives? 264 00:16:30,629 --> 00:16:33,339 I always look at it from actually three different lenses. 265 00:16:33,799 --> 00:16:35,779 One of those is the last one you mentioned, which is your 266 00:16:35,779 --> 00:16:36,979 financial considerations. 267 00:16:36,989 --> 00:16:40,459 So there's that obvious financial risk and losing money over time, 268 00:16:40,589 --> 00:16:43,309 especially with, you know, increase of climate effects, you have supply chain 269 00:16:43,309 --> 00:16:47,069 disruptions, so if you're reliant on selling a certain thing or building a 270 00:16:47,069 --> 00:16:50,279 certain thing and you can't gain as, I mean there's a huge issue with the copper 271 00:16:50,279 --> 00:16:53,299 supply chain at the minute, so if you're building anything involving copper, 272 00:16:53,999 --> 00:16:55,560 you're not going to be able to do that. 273 00:16:56,189 --> 00:16:56,719 Well, there you go. 274 00:16:56,779 --> 00:16:59,099 Well you're not going to be able to build at the scale you maybe want to 275 00:16:59,099 --> 00:17:03,029 because there's disruptions to that supply chain, but there's also that 276 00:17:03,029 --> 00:17:06,719 increasing of your long term value from incorporation of sustainable practices. 277 00:17:06,949 --> 00:17:11,519 It's often seen that those that have more sustainable activities have that 278 00:17:11,519 --> 00:17:12,649 protection of their long term value. 279 00:17:12,649 --> 00:17:15,299 But you can, if you're more sustainable, you can often get 280 00:17:15,529 --> 00:17:16,909 increased access to capital. 281 00:17:17,129 --> 00:17:20,049 So if you're demonstrating commitments to sustainability, you've often 282 00:17:20,049 --> 00:17:23,359 got lower financing costs, or you have more access to funds, and then 283 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,339 you can tap into new markets, so that's the financial considerations. 284 00:17:26,649 --> 00:17:30,284 You've definitely got the reputational drivers, which is those driven by 285 00:17:30,724 --> 00:17:35,604 customers, clients, so a lot of financial institutions have signed up to pledges, 286 00:17:36,404 --> 00:17:39,735 whether that be, you know, the Paris Agreement, one is to keep climate down 287 00:17:39,735 --> 00:17:44,465 and then keep climate warming below two degrees and a lot of customers are now 288 00:17:44,485 --> 00:17:47,264 really interested in that, so if they have a pension fund or they're investing 289 00:17:47,264 --> 00:17:51,144 in something, or they're using a bank for whatever needs they have, then they 290 00:17:51,144 --> 00:17:56,340 want to say that institution is being sustainably conscious, sustainably minded. 291 00:17:56,719 --> 00:18:00,089 Then you have then the kind of third one, which is regulation. 292 00:18:00,639 --> 00:18:03,969 So I think from the discussions that we're having as part of the Unlocking 293 00:18:03,969 --> 00:18:07,534 Space for Business Programme, a lot that's coming from the financial side, 294 00:18:07,544 --> 00:18:10,814 probably, I mean, much more so than the transport and logistics side, is 295 00:18:10,814 --> 00:18:15,674 that need to not only meet regulation themselves and there's a lot of regulatory 296 00:18:15,674 --> 00:18:19,934 bodies and policymakers that are really promoting sustainable finance through 297 00:18:20,134 --> 00:18:21,584 kind of a huge range of initiatives. 298 00:18:21,594 --> 00:18:28,464 Some of the popular ones is CSRD, which is Corporate Sustaining Reporting Directive, 299 00:18:28,764 --> 00:18:32,114 the TCFD, which is the Task Force on Climate Related Financial Disclosures. 300 00:18:32,324 --> 00:18:35,614 When you say regulation, are you sort of saying that because 301 00:18:35,624 --> 00:18:36,594 you have to do it because 302 00:18:36,594 --> 00:18:36,714 its... 303 00:18:36,814 --> 00:18:40,745 Because you have to do it, yeah and some of them, I mean, some of them 304 00:18:40,745 --> 00:18:44,334 initially started off as kind of voluntary reporting and they're becoming more 305 00:18:44,374 --> 00:18:46,314 mandatory for bigger organisations. 306 00:18:46,334 --> 00:18:50,644 It might be those that employ over X number of employees, but then also they 307 00:18:50,644 --> 00:18:54,424 have to, for a financial institution, you've got to protect yourself if 308 00:18:54,424 --> 00:18:59,665 somebody that you're investing in is disclosing on anything really, 309 00:18:59,915 --> 00:19:01,504 a lot of that can be climate based. 310 00:19:01,604 --> 00:19:05,944 You need to make sure that they're being honest and that they're, what 311 00:19:05,944 --> 00:19:08,804 they're reporting on is accurate and you can use satellite data 312 00:19:08,804 --> 00:19:10,764 to prove and track a lot of that. 313 00:19:10,764 --> 00:19:11,819 That's a really good point. 314 00:19:11,969 --> 00:19:14,610 I'd like to just build on that point if I can. 315 00:19:14,659 --> 00:19:20,589 Laura, perhaps you could give us some examples of how satellite solutions 316 00:19:20,589 --> 00:19:24,419 can help financial institutions and Joss was sort of alluding to some 317 00:19:24,419 --> 00:19:27,359 there, but maybe you could take us through a few more examples. 318 00:19:27,570 --> 00:19:28,429 Yeah, absolutely. 319 00:19:28,489 --> 00:19:32,009 I mean, there's kind of the obvious ones in terms of weather. 320 00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:36,909 So, things around being able to understand the risks from climate changes, the 321 00:19:36,910 --> 00:19:40,870 risk from extreme weather, from natural catastrophes and that sort of plays 322 00:19:40,870 --> 00:19:45,500 into the risk decisions that financial institutions make, particularly for 323 00:19:45,509 --> 00:19:50,519 insurers, for example, as to whether they want to insure certain assets based on the 324 00:19:50,519 --> 00:19:55,219 position and potential impacts of weather, it also kind of covers things like the 325 00:19:55,229 --> 00:19:57,320 resilience monitoring of those assets. 326 00:19:57,550 --> 00:20:02,965 So using satellite imagery to understand what's happened in the past in particular 327 00:20:02,965 --> 00:20:07,895 areas, how potentially assets could be affected by changes in weather, 328 00:20:07,895 --> 00:20:11,175 changes in kind of the environment and the situation around them. 329 00:20:11,684 --> 00:20:14,984 There's all of the emissions monitoring and the kind of the regulatory framework 330 00:20:15,024 --> 00:20:18,804 that lots of institutions have to report into, as Joss mentioned and 331 00:20:18,804 --> 00:20:23,024 then there's also a lot around nature monitoring and biodiversity as well. 332 00:20:23,044 --> 00:20:28,814 So can financial institutions actually use earth observation data to identify 333 00:20:29,284 --> 00:20:31,715 particular changes in the environment. 334 00:20:32,104 --> 00:20:35,634 Again, it comes back to a lot of sort of asset monitoring and insurance, but 335 00:20:35,695 --> 00:20:40,405 you know, there's also the other angle of being able to validate the public 336 00:20:40,405 --> 00:20:44,485 commitments that they've made in terms of their investments and I think it really 337 00:20:44,485 --> 00:20:48,254 just plays back into the disclosures that they have to make and the regulatory 338 00:20:48,264 --> 00:20:49,564 framework that they're operating within. 339 00:20:49,729 --> 00:20:50,310 That's amazing. 340 00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:54,379 So basically if you have access to all that information, you're just kind of 341 00:20:54,379 --> 00:20:58,689 streets ahead of an organisation that doesn't have access to that, I mean, 342 00:20:58,879 --> 00:21:03,699 you know, having this crystal clear window of the world almost in real time. 343 00:21:03,975 --> 00:21:08,205 That's what they would like to get to, as you can tell. 344 00:21:08,225 --> 00:21:13,714 It's a very complex system with a lot of moving parts that all affect each other. 345 00:21:13,725 --> 00:21:18,444 You know, there's carbon offsets, there's supply chain 346 00:21:18,455 --> 00:21:21,104 vulnerability, they're all related. 347 00:21:21,444 --> 00:21:26,074 For example, if, you think that most of the material that gets shifted 348 00:21:26,074 --> 00:21:30,774 around the world, the goods still come in ships and you see what happened 349 00:21:30,774 --> 00:21:34,864 in Suez, with the blocking of Suez and that held up all the microchips. 350 00:21:35,354 --> 00:21:39,354 Somebody needed to know that was going to happen, you couldn't forecast 351 00:21:39,354 --> 00:21:41,664 it, but you know, what has happened? 352 00:21:41,824 --> 00:21:43,014 Where are my goods? 353 00:21:43,245 --> 00:21:47,754 So the bank needs to know that their loans are safe, the insurance company 354 00:21:47,754 --> 00:21:49,024 needs to know where the goods are. 355 00:21:49,314 --> 00:21:52,749 But there's also a climate change aspect to that. 356 00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:56,989 So the Panama, larger vessels aren't able to go through that because the 357 00:21:56,989 --> 00:22:02,689 lakes that feed the Panama Canal are drying up to a certain extent. 358 00:22:02,719 --> 00:22:04,869 It's amazing to be able to see that. 359 00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:08,239 I mean, that's something you probably, this is not common knowledge. 360 00:22:08,259 --> 00:22:11,879 Climate change directly impacting the supply chain and there are many 361 00:22:11,879 --> 00:22:14,059 examples of that all over the place. 362 00:22:14,060 --> 00:22:17,559 But there is a whole thing about scarcity of raw materials 363 00:22:18,279 --> 00:22:19,729 and finding out where those... 364 00:22:19,729 --> 00:22:23,449 Well where stuff is and you know, if you're mining copper for example, 365 00:22:23,449 --> 00:22:26,210 you're digging up huge areas of land... 366 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,734 And not in your own country. 367 00:22:27,994 --> 00:22:33,194 So you've got to know what's happening in China or Africa or South America and 368 00:22:33,194 --> 00:22:36,994 satellite's really the only way that you can actually observe what's happening 369 00:22:37,204 --> 00:22:39,254 in places you can't get to very easily. 370 00:22:39,304 --> 00:22:43,085 I think especially for the raw materials and mining industry that a lot of 371 00:22:43,085 --> 00:22:46,524 these are in, as Sean mentioned, very remote areas and they've 372 00:22:46,524 --> 00:22:48,124 always had historical issues with... 373 00:22:48,464 --> 00:22:51,594 Well it's, and it's getting, it seems to be getting increasingly more and more 374 00:22:51,594 --> 00:22:55,664 political as well as we're searching for rare earth metals in different 375 00:22:55,664 --> 00:22:59,754 places that traditionally we don't mine and that's presumably going to 376 00:22:59,764 --> 00:23:02,304 rely on a lot of satellite information. 377 00:23:02,365 --> 00:23:03,064 Exactly. 378 00:23:03,064 --> 00:23:08,715 If you found that, shall we say there's a rare earth that's needed for batteries 379 00:23:08,715 --> 00:23:12,034 or whatever it is and so your whole economy is going to be reliant on that 380 00:23:12,354 --> 00:23:17,205 and then you notice that a lot of these rare earth deposits are being acquired by 381 00:23:17,205 --> 00:23:21,124 one country, you can then work out that there's probably a policy that they've 382 00:23:21,124 --> 00:23:23,715 got to corner the market in something. 383 00:23:24,135 --> 00:23:26,624 Now, satellites will enable you to see what's going on there, 384 00:23:26,644 --> 00:23:29,735 which you would find it very difficult to do on the ground. 385 00:23:29,874 --> 00:23:30,274 Yeah. 386 00:23:31,220 --> 00:23:36,219 One thing about satellite data in general is it often seems to be a lot more 387 00:23:36,239 --> 00:23:40,609 trustworthy because you can get it in near real time, depending on the source 388 00:23:40,609 --> 00:23:42,270 that you're purchasing this data from. 389 00:23:42,769 --> 00:23:45,689 Global, so you can see a lot of it, it's a lot more over, but it's coming 390 00:23:45,689 --> 00:23:48,499 directly from the source, which is the satellite and the images that you're 391 00:23:48,499 --> 00:23:52,277 given and you know, you could talk about looking forward and deep fakes of 392 00:23:52,277 --> 00:23:54,292 satellite imagery and the use of AI as... 393 00:23:55,379 --> 00:23:57,909 you know, anticipated to become more of a problem, but... 394 00:23:58,205 --> 00:23:58,895 That's another... 395 00:23:58,950 --> 00:24:01,220 That is a whole separate kind of kettle of fish. 396 00:24:01,220 --> 00:24:07,200 But you do, you are just getting these raw unbiased images from remote 397 00:24:07,229 --> 00:24:10,829 areas where traditionally you might have to send somebody out there. 398 00:24:11,369 --> 00:24:15,220 They don't have a whole view or the site may be able to prepare if they know 399 00:24:15,220 --> 00:24:18,850 these people are coming and you know, I don't want to allude that things are 400 00:24:18,860 --> 00:24:23,429 happening, but there's always options that things can get hidden or, you 401 00:24:23,429 --> 00:24:26,300 know, pushed to a side because they know somebody's coming out and you're 402 00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:29,090 then also getting what a viewpoint at that moment in time that somebody 403 00:24:29,090 --> 00:24:30,659 is on site taking that measurement. 404 00:24:30,879 --> 00:24:34,799 So satellites just give you that kind of wider spread, that trustworthy 405 00:24:34,810 --> 00:24:36,590 source, which is so important. 406 00:24:36,659 --> 00:24:41,019 The real power is when you put satellite imagery and data, not just 407 00:24:41,030 --> 00:24:44,659 the imagery, but data coming from the satellites, with other data sources. 408 00:24:44,689 --> 00:24:49,570 So digital terrain models or you know, who owns what building or all the 409 00:24:49,570 --> 00:24:52,329 financial or social aspects of an area. 410 00:24:52,350 --> 00:24:55,879 If you're concerned about ESG and you're concerned about forced 411 00:24:55,879 --> 00:24:59,894 labour, working in minds or something like that, Environmental, Social 412 00:24:59,894 --> 00:25:03,885 and Governance that companies are having to report on nowadays. 413 00:25:04,195 --> 00:25:09,384 But it's layering different types of data from different sources makes the 414 00:25:09,385 --> 00:25:14,564 insights that much greater and makes you help make better decisions, really. 415 00:25:14,709 --> 00:25:18,219 Just going back to the Space for Business initiative, you've given us a really 416 00:25:18,219 --> 00:25:23,339 wonderful kind of overview of just the power and the influence of satellite data. 417 00:25:23,989 --> 00:25:28,279 Laura, what are the barriers to realizing the potential benefits from satellite 418 00:25:28,279 --> 00:25:31,399 derived data, if you're a company, like what's stopping people from... 419 00:25:31,435 --> 00:25:34,475 There's a couple of different barriers and Jocelyn mentioned some 420 00:25:34,475 --> 00:25:37,715 work that we did before we actually set this programme up and that was 421 00:25:37,715 --> 00:25:39,004 to look at what those barriers are. 422 00:25:39,405 --> 00:25:43,174 I think there's barriers both on the end user side, so for businesses, but 423 00:25:43,174 --> 00:25:44,924 also on like the supply side as well. 424 00:25:44,925 --> 00:25:47,980 I think for businesses, there's the awareness piece. 425 00:25:47,980 --> 00:25:51,950 It's understanding exactly what's out there and maybe not knowing that 426 00:25:52,100 --> 00:25:55,780 satellite data could be a potential solution or could be combined 427 00:25:55,780 --> 00:25:57,389 with existing terrestrial data. 428 00:25:58,110 --> 00:26:02,719 I think there's also a big challenge around the persuasiveness of the ROI. 429 00:26:02,719 --> 00:26:07,119 So, you know, there's this idea that perhaps is starting to be challenged 430 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,499 a bit more, which is satellite data is really expensive, really difficult to 431 00:26:11,499 --> 00:26:15,919 understand how you can potentially use it because it's just, it's so inaccessible, 432 00:26:15,919 --> 00:26:20,540 it's so expensive and that kind of plays into the idea that it must be really 433 00:26:20,540 --> 00:26:24,920 inaccessible and really difficult to use or difficult to interpret and I think 434 00:26:25,259 --> 00:26:29,820 that's kind of combined with Challenges on the supply side as well and when we did 435 00:26:29,820 --> 00:26:33,849 this piece of work to understand what the problems were, we recognised that there 436 00:26:33,849 --> 00:26:38,580 were issues around suppliers not quite understanding what the specific issues 437 00:26:38,580 --> 00:26:40,419 were for customers or for end users. 438 00:26:40,839 --> 00:26:45,350 So people who actually want to use satellite data and maybe also there's a 439 00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:50,409 degree of kind of siloing as well, where perhaps products were being sold or in 440 00:26:50,409 --> 00:26:54,750 particular silos, but there could be a wider market for selling satellite data. 441 00:26:55,090 --> 00:26:58,579 So it's kind of a variety of different issues I'd say, all kind of coupled 442 00:26:58,579 --> 00:27:02,919 together and really what we're trying to do is tackle a lot of those issues, so for 443 00:27:02,929 --> 00:27:04,749 both the end users and the supply side. 444 00:27:04,999 --> 00:27:07,639 Okay, we've looked a little bit about sort of financial services and 445 00:27:07,639 --> 00:27:10,739 about how they might, use satellite data and we sort of touched a little 446 00:27:10,739 --> 00:27:12,799 bit on transport and logistics. 447 00:27:12,829 --> 00:27:16,939 I'm just interested thinking about the future and in your opinion, 448 00:27:16,939 --> 00:27:19,999 what's the biggest change that you've seen in satellite data and 449 00:27:19,999 --> 00:27:21,529 services over the past few years? 450 00:27:21,534 --> 00:27:24,229 Like what's been the real kind of game changer? 451 00:27:24,659 --> 00:27:30,510 Well, I'll take that one and it really is this concept of new space, but 452 00:27:30,550 --> 00:27:36,299 space is being commercialised, in that services reflect the needs of the end 453 00:27:36,299 --> 00:27:41,780 users or the companies and the services are being broadened out to be available 454 00:27:41,780 --> 00:27:47,149 to not just the huge companies, but to lots of smaller companies and more 455 00:27:47,149 --> 00:27:51,720 companies along a supply chain, whereas traditionally it was the government or 456 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,590 the military or the science bit that... 457 00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:56,514 Do small companies still think, I mean we talked about this earlier, 458 00:27:56,564 --> 00:28:00,254 do they still think, oh space, I'm too small to bother with this. 459 00:28:00,534 --> 00:28:03,785 They already use space, not necessarily knowing they're using it. 460 00:28:03,825 --> 00:28:05,605 We've already mentioned about GPS. 461 00:28:06,262 --> 00:28:12,415 So GPS or Google Maps or, you know, there are other maps available or 462 00:28:12,425 --> 00:28:17,290 you know, even with their mobile phone, the backhaul, so the bit 463 00:28:17,300 --> 00:28:21,270 that's carrying data might be coming through, satellites as well. 464 00:28:21,570 --> 00:28:23,660 The point being is so they're using it, but they don't 465 00:28:23,670 --> 00:28:25,090 necessarily know they're using it. 466 00:28:25,380 --> 00:28:28,880 What we're trying to say is there is more to it than just what you're 467 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:34,250 using at the moment and that would be, you know, information about one 468 00:28:34,250 --> 00:28:38,680 of the biggest things for transport and logistics would be, horrible 469 00:28:38,750 --> 00:28:40,580 term, but situational awareness. 470 00:28:40,670 --> 00:28:43,780 So it's knowing where things are, where your assets are, where the 471 00:28:43,780 --> 00:28:45,240 container is, where the ship is. 472 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,924 So it's actually tracking stuff in real time. 473 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,150 Tracking and understanding the condition of those things that, you know, you're 474 00:28:52,150 --> 00:28:56,110 bringing in bananas from around the world and you want to know are they 475 00:28:56,115 --> 00:29:02,140 going to arrive in good condition or not and also, actually related back 476 00:29:02,140 --> 00:29:07,580 to the ESG aspects, how much fuel is being used to bring your bananas in? 477 00:29:07,580 --> 00:29:10,410 Because the company you're supplying is going to be saying, 478 00:29:10,820 --> 00:29:12,220 how much fuel did you use? 479 00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:16,775 You know and you've got to reduce that over the next five years and they've 480 00:29:16,775 --> 00:29:20,105 got to all bring all this information together, it's very difficult. 481 00:29:20,860 --> 00:29:24,220 But it's also going to make businesses much more competitive as well, 482 00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:26,180 the fact that they'll have all this information about things like 483 00:29:26,180 --> 00:29:28,729 fuel and where things are going. 484 00:29:28,729 --> 00:29:32,590 It's like, oh, we could have a much better route perhaps rather than going this way, 485 00:29:32,590 --> 00:29:34,110 we could go that way, which is shorter. 486 00:29:34,245 --> 00:29:38,475 And I think you're going to find new companies springing up that are providing 487 00:29:38,485 --> 00:29:42,845 these additional services, as long as they can do it cost effectively and 488 00:29:42,845 --> 00:29:46,755 particularly if they're using AI, because what we're talking about, satellite data 489 00:29:46,755 --> 00:29:52,545 is huge volumes of it and there aren't enough people to resolve the data issues, 490 00:29:52,555 --> 00:29:54,235 so AI might be able to help there. 491 00:29:54,405 --> 00:29:59,795 The fab thing about AI is obviously the natural, if we've got millions of 492 00:29:59,795 --> 00:30:02,975 images, if you use a naked eye, you're not going to be able to process that 493 00:30:03,355 --> 00:30:05,445 at pace and to the level that you need. 494 00:30:05,445 --> 00:30:09,480 But you also can see things in the data that are impossible to be seen with... 495 00:30:09,580 --> 00:30:10,520 That's really good point! 496 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:11,130 ...the naked eye. 497 00:30:11,410 --> 00:30:14,450 So you're gaining a whole, we're gaining new insights through new types 498 00:30:14,450 --> 00:30:17,620 of sensors and we've got you know, hyperspectral sensors now that show you 499 00:30:17,620 --> 00:30:20,560 a huge range of bands, spectral bands. 500 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,950 But using AI, you're then just increasing the level of insights 501 00:30:23,950 --> 00:30:24,990 you can get into the data. 502 00:30:24,990 --> 00:30:29,809 So the things you can learn and the options that become open to 503 00:30:29,810 --> 00:30:33,550 you as an organisation are huge and forever growing and I think we don't 504 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,810 really know the capabilities yet. 505 00:30:36,060 --> 00:30:41,000 It's really mind blowing just how deep we can look now into data 506 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,780 is, you know, AI is going to... 507 00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:46,150 We've already mentioned about the archive data, you know, these satellites 508 00:30:46,150 --> 00:30:50,010 have been around for decades, some of them, that data is still there. 509 00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:53,780 Most of it has not been looked at by a human being. 510 00:30:54,140 --> 00:30:58,510 So, if you could then go through the archives of all of these thousand 511 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:03,900 satellites, and then start, you know pulling out information from that using, 512 00:31:04,050 --> 00:31:09,430 let's not call it AI, let's call it an automated non manual process somehow. 513 00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:10,020 Catchy! 514 00:31:10,610 --> 00:31:19,480 But if you can somehow, make use of that archive data that's going 515 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:24,170 back decades and look at maybe environmental change over every year. 516 00:31:24,170 --> 00:31:25,680 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's amazing. 517 00:31:26,150 --> 00:31:29,765 Going back to your original question of what's the kind of greatest changes over 518 00:31:29,765 --> 00:31:34,275 the last few years, I know Sean kind of mentioned this commercial aspect of it 519 00:31:34,275 --> 00:31:36,985 and there's a building on the AI point, it is just that general technological 520 00:31:36,985 --> 00:31:40,945 development and the speed that we've seen over the last few years and if you're 521 00:31:40,945 --> 00:31:44,705 looking at a lot of the satellites that are being launched now, I kind of, I 522 00:31:44,705 --> 00:31:49,245 mean, you can't, see it, but almost 30 centimeters by 30 centimeters in size 523 00:31:49,245 --> 00:31:53,315 and these kind of CubeSats or NanoSats as they call them are so much cheaper to 524 00:31:53,315 --> 00:31:57,165 build, you can build them in a matter of months, whereas a traditional satellite 525 00:31:57,165 --> 00:32:00,975 might take in 10 years and cost you half a billion dollars, you can now do it 526 00:32:00,975 --> 00:32:02,555 for less than a million dollars and... 527 00:32:02,929 --> 00:32:03,660 That is amazing. 528 00:32:03,665 --> 00:32:05,555 ...get it up at much less of cost. 529 00:32:05,565 --> 00:32:09,785 So that accessibility is, it's huge and you know, you add on 3D 530 00:32:09,785 --> 00:32:13,695 printing and recreating these tiny satellites, one falls out, one 531 00:32:13,705 --> 00:32:15,085 breaks, just send another one. 532 00:32:15,330 --> 00:32:18,190 Just send up another one or make one in space, make one up there. 533 00:32:18,220 --> 00:32:19,665 Yeah, no, potentially, yeah. 534 00:32:20,165 --> 00:32:23,155 Almost flat pack satellites. 535 00:32:23,745 --> 00:32:26,040 Just finally we should move on and just talk a little bit about what 536 00:32:26,050 --> 00:32:29,300 the UK Space Agency support is. 537 00:32:29,310 --> 00:32:32,870 So we've got all this wonderful stuff that we've been talking about. 538 00:32:33,785 --> 00:32:37,515 So Laura, maybe you could just talk us through a little bit of the, what 539 00:32:37,515 --> 00:32:42,394 kind of support the UK Space Agency offers businesses so they can make use 540 00:32:42,394 --> 00:32:44,705 of some of this amazing technology. 541 00:32:45,290 --> 00:32:47,710 So it's a real variety of different things. 542 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,410 We've been running networking events, first of all, to try and bring together 543 00:32:51,420 --> 00:32:54,870 end user businesses, the supply side and really try and understand 544 00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:58,619 what the potential problems are the businesses are grappling with and 545 00:32:58,620 --> 00:33:02,520 what the potential use cases could be and how they can use satellite data. 546 00:33:03,149 --> 00:33:06,170 We've also been running exploration workshops, so these are trying to 547 00:33:06,170 --> 00:33:10,870 sort of deep dive into the particular challenges that a business is facing, 548 00:33:11,450 --> 00:33:15,680 looking at what those issues might be, how they could use satellite data. 549 00:33:15,694 --> 00:33:19,194 So basically, a business would come to you and say, this is kind of 550 00:33:19,194 --> 00:33:21,225 what we do, how can you help us? 551 00:33:21,415 --> 00:33:24,505 And then somebody from the UK Space Agency could come and say yes, we can 552 00:33:24,505 --> 00:33:25,785 do that, we can do that, we can do that. 553 00:33:26,250 --> 00:33:30,009 Yeah, it's like an exploration of the potential opportunities. 554 00:33:30,009 --> 00:33:31,990 So the different options that are out there. 555 00:33:32,339 --> 00:33:36,160 So we've been working with PWC, working with the Satellite Applications Catapult 556 00:33:36,220 --> 00:33:40,800 and using their expertise to really try and unpick what that particular business 557 00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:44,460 is, struggling with, or, you know, the opportunities that they think they might 558 00:33:44,460 --> 00:33:49,120 want to explore and looking at what those options are for using satellite 559 00:33:49,130 --> 00:33:54,080 data, you know, combined with existing terrestrial data and supporting them 560 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,230 really just to understand the kind of the supplier ecosystem a bit better as well. 561 00:33:58,970 --> 00:34:01,540 And give us, give me an idea of just how well it's doing. 562 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:07,070 Lots of companies getting involved and coming and has take up been good? 563 00:34:07,470 --> 00:34:09,770 Are you sort of happy with where it's going or do you need 564 00:34:10,300 --> 00:34:11,469 to get the message out more? 565 00:34:11,670 --> 00:34:15,159 I'd like to say we're really happy with what we've found so far and the number 566 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,100 of people we've got involved, we've had some really successful networking events 567 00:34:19,949 --> 00:34:23,570 over the last couple of weeks, but you know, we're always interested in hearing 568 00:34:23,570 --> 00:34:27,890 from new organisations, new businesses who think they might want to understand 569 00:34:27,890 --> 00:34:32,370 a bit more about those opportunities, you know, suppliers who are interested in 570 00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:37,670 understanding how to reach businesses, how to really understand what the kind 571 00:34:37,670 --> 00:34:39,200 of the problems are that they're facing. 572 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,640 So definitely, you know, the programme's got another while to run, up until 573 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,329 next year so really interested in finding out more and hearing 574 00:34:47,330 --> 00:34:48,819 more from different organisations. 575 00:34:48,839 --> 00:34:52,010 So tell me, so if I'm an organisation and I'm listening to this and I'm 576 00:34:52,010 --> 00:34:56,280 thinking, crikey, I want to do this, how would they go about getting involved? 577 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,620 What's the, is there a process that they should know about? 578 00:34:58,885 --> 00:35:01,565 Yeah, so there's a couple of different ways they can get involved. 579 00:35:02,105 --> 00:35:05,915 If it's, if you're an end user business, so if you're an organisation in financial 580 00:35:05,915 --> 00:35:09,764 services or in the transport and logistics sector, we have exploration 581 00:35:09,765 --> 00:35:11,385 workshops, which are available. 582 00:35:11,465 --> 00:35:15,874 We've also just finished a suite of learning and development webinars. 583 00:35:15,874 --> 00:35:19,250 So we're going to have insights available from that as well. 584 00:35:19,550 --> 00:35:23,000 It's all on gov.uk, so via the UK Space Agency. 585 00:35:23,690 --> 00:35:27,290 So there's information there on everything that we've done to date and all of the 586 00:35:27,290 --> 00:35:31,400 initiatives that are coming up, including that learning and development piece, 587 00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:36,429 the exploration workshop sign up form and some really interesting insights 588 00:35:36,569 --> 00:35:40,230 and potential use cases, you know, that we found throughout this whole process. 589 00:35:40,525 --> 00:35:44,045 I presume it must be a big learning curve for you guys as well, you know, 590 00:35:44,065 --> 00:35:47,615 meeting these different organisations and different companies, all of whom have 591 00:35:47,615 --> 00:35:51,845 different aims and goals and aspirations, all slightly different for you 592 00:35:52,255 --> 00:35:53,525 thinking, Oh, I'd never thought of that. 593 00:35:53,525 --> 00:35:56,434 Or this is interesting, why don't we put these guys in touch with these people? 594 00:35:56,434 --> 00:35:57,594 And does that sort of happen? 595 00:35:57,975 --> 00:36:02,655 The exciting thing for me and the Catapult and the agency and PWC is that we're 596 00:36:02,865 --> 00:36:10,005 engaging some sort of major household name organisations that have looked at space 597 00:36:10,005 --> 00:36:14,795 services in the past, but now they're seriously considering what can be done. 598 00:36:15,275 --> 00:36:19,375 You know everyone has a basic knowledge of satellite data to a certain extent, 599 00:36:19,765 --> 00:36:24,885 but actually using it through this programme, they're now considering how 600 00:36:24,885 --> 00:36:28,565 it can actually feed into their business process and that's very important. 601 00:36:28,565 --> 00:36:31,215 It's not just, you know, getting a bit of information and saying, well 602 00:36:31,525 --> 00:36:35,325 that's quite funky, I can now see these, buildings or whatever it is. 603 00:36:35,585 --> 00:36:39,325 But feeding it into what they do on a day to day basis and these 604 00:36:39,325 --> 00:36:42,985 are big companies that are looking at this, so that's important. 605 00:36:43,195 --> 00:36:43,655 That's great! 606 00:36:43,655 --> 00:36:44,690 Yeah, it's been great. 607 00:36:44,690 --> 00:36:49,290 I mean, we've engaged with hundreds of organisations across the programme 608 00:36:49,630 --> 00:36:52,860 and it is really interesting when you get into those deeper conversations, 609 00:36:52,900 --> 00:36:56,690 because you're engaging with different people, sometimes it's the ESG 610 00:36:56,690 --> 00:36:59,620 team, sometimes it's the innovation team, sometimes it's the tech team. 611 00:36:59,910 --> 00:37:02,580 So it's really fascinating when you're seeing those different points of view 612 00:37:02,580 --> 00:37:06,070 and sometimes connecting different parts of the business because they all 613 00:37:06,070 --> 00:37:09,470 have different viewpoints and they all have different priority areas and even 614 00:37:09,470 --> 00:37:14,040 some, and we recently had as part of the panelist, one of our networking events. 615 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,620 She said, I definitely knew we use satellite data, but it's only really 616 00:37:17,620 --> 00:37:21,800 through this programme that I realised how much benefit we can gain and 617 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,010 I, you know, I did, we'd use GPS. 618 00:37:24,010 --> 00:37:27,420 I thought it was all just GPS, but actually the opportunities that are 619 00:37:27,420 --> 00:37:32,250 available for my organisation to make us more efficient, to improve our operations, 620 00:37:32,290 --> 00:37:34,610 to make us more environmentally focused. 621 00:37:35,010 --> 00:37:39,190 Yes, I want to explore this, I want to see the next steps and build on what 622 00:37:39,190 --> 00:37:42,080 was already an existing capability and then you've got the other end of the 623 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,330 spectrum and said, why have you come to us and told us about satellite data? 624 00:37:45,730 --> 00:37:47,830 And they're like, just come on, let's have a workshop. 625 00:37:48,070 --> 00:37:51,660 let's see how it goes and it's great to see people getting really invested 626 00:37:51,660 --> 00:37:55,930 in the space sector and really opening a whole new world to a lot of people 627 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,330 because we know and, you know, the space agency have set up this whole 628 00:37:59,330 --> 00:38:04,190 programme to spread the word of the fantastic space sector that we have in 629 00:38:04,190 --> 00:38:07,630 the UK and there's hundreds of technical specialists, so we need to show them off. 630 00:38:07,755 --> 00:38:10,405 You've hit the nail on the head, our wonderful space sector, we 631 00:38:10,405 --> 00:38:11,855 do have a wonderful space sector. 632 00:38:11,855 --> 00:38:16,105 I mean, it's really, you know, every time I do these podcasts or go to a 633 00:38:16,105 --> 00:38:20,295 space event, I'm always absolutely blown away by just the quality of people 634 00:38:20,295 --> 00:38:26,075 involved in the sector and how good it is and just the immense potential. 635 00:38:26,305 --> 00:38:30,235 The other thing I'm surprised about is how little people know about it from 636 00:38:30,235 --> 00:38:34,245 the outside and maybe that's, we... 637 00:38:34,295 --> 00:38:34,655 I don't know. 638 00:38:34,655 --> 00:38:36,705 I think we need to be working on that because I'm, you know, 639 00:38:36,765 --> 00:38:38,655 initiative like these are terrific. 640 00:38:38,655 --> 00:38:40,185 I mean, this is the way to do it, but it's... 641 00:38:40,210 --> 00:38:46,330 Definitely and it's beholden on the space community to make it easy to use, 642 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,380 you know, it should be, you know, a bit of a no brainer that, yes, we've 643 00:38:49,380 --> 00:38:53,650 got some space data, it goes straight into our business process, we don't 644 00:38:53,650 --> 00:38:59,185 worry about it and also in the future when you've got, you know, sort of 645 00:38:59,185 --> 00:39:04,965 connectivity between satcoms and mobile phones, for example, direct, which will 646 00:39:04,965 --> 00:39:07,095 be in a few years time, not that soon. 647 00:39:07,095 --> 00:39:10,865 I mean, there are a couple of cases where that's being done, but putting, that 648 00:39:10,865 --> 00:39:16,775 power into the hands of, consumers and end users, they will also come up with 649 00:39:16,775 --> 00:39:21,675 their own, things to do with that data that we can't possibly think of and that's 650 00:39:21,675 --> 00:39:25,105 the exciting bit where you've got other organisations saying, well, hang on a 651 00:39:25,105 --> 00:39:30,775 minute, if I had that bit of information, then I can do so many more things and 652 00:39:30,775 --> 00:39:37,214 it's that sort of convening power that the space agency and the other players help. 653 00:39:37,485 --> 00:39:37,855 Great. 654 00:39:38,275 --> 00:39:41,675 Well, listen to Jocelyn, Laura, Sean, thank you so much for chatting. 655 00:39:41,715 --> 00:39:42,675 Thank you very much indeed. 656 00:39:42,785 --> 00:39:43,205 Thank you. 657 00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:43,930 Fantastic. 658 00:39:43,970 --> 00:39:44,980 Thanks for having us. 659 00:39:45,545 --> 00:39:46,654 Hope you enjoyed that episode. 660 00:39:46,855 --> 00:39:51,585 To hear future episodes of In-Orbit, be sure to subscribe on your favourite 661 00:39:51,645 --> 00:39:55,594 podcast app and to find out a bit more about how space is empowering 662 00:39:55,594 --> 00:40:00,555 industries in between episodes, you can visit the Catapult website, or you 663 00:40:00,555 --> 00:40:02,765 can join them or me on social media.