WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.740 --> 00:00:04.540 A key component of the modern world economy, the chemical 00:00:04.540 --> 00:00:07.990 industry delivers products and innovations to enhance everyday life. 00:00:08.605 --> 00:00:12.594 It is also an industry in transformation where chemical executives and 00:00:12.594 --> 00:00:16.215 workers are delivering growth and industry changing advancements while 00:00:16.215 --> 00:00:19.974 responding to pressures from investors, regulators, and public opinion. 00:00:20.515 --> 00:00:23.445 Discover how leading companies are approaching these challenges 00:00:23.455 --> 00:00:25.064 here on the chemical show. 00:00:25.524 --> 00:00:28.875 Join Victoria Meyer, president of Progressio Global and 00:00:28.885 --> 00:00:30.305 host of the chemical show. 00:00:30.575 --> 00:00:34.775 As she speaks with executives across the industry and learns how they are leading 00:00:34.775 --> 00:00:40.374 their companies to grow, transform, and push industry boundaries on all frontiers. 00:00:40.695 --> 00:00:42.944 Here's your host, Victoria Meyer. 00:00:46.820 --> 00:00:48.270 VictoriaM: Hi, this is Victoria Meyer. 00:00:48.340 --> 00:00:51.890 Welcome back to The Chemical Show, Where Chemicals Means Business. 00:00:52.440 --> 00:00:56.560 Today, I am speaking with Tom Fox, who is the president of 00:00:56.560 --> 00:00:58.479 the Compliance Podcast Network. 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:03.339 So Tom is the Number One Voice of Compliance and founder of the award 00:01:03.339 --> 00:01:05.379 winning Compliance Podcast Network. 00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:09.309 He's a lawyer, and an international bestselling author 00:01:09.309 --> 00:01:12.279 with 33 books on compliance, 00:01:12.604 --> 00:01:14.185 business ethics and leadership. 00:01:14.565 --> 00:01:18.414 So Tom and I are going to be talking today about the role of compliance 00:01:18.815 --> 00:01:20.624 and the power of podcasting. 00:01:21.134 --> 00:01:22.505 Tom, welcome to The Chemical Show. 00:01:23.350 --> 00:01:23.690 Tom Fox: Thank you. 00:01:23.690 --> 00:01:25.200 I'm really thrilled to be here with you. 00:01:25.964 --> 00:01:28.204 VictoriaM: Tom, what's your origin story? 00:01:28.214 --> 00:01:32.194 How did you get started even being interested in pursuing 00:01:32.194 --> 00:01:33.514 a career in compliance? 00:01:35.160 --> 00:01:38.289 Tom Fox: So I was a recovering trial lawyer. 00:01:38.679 --> 00:01:43.229 I defended petrochemical companies along the Texas Gulf Coast largely. 00:01:43.850 --> 00:01:47.080 So I had a lot of experience with health and safety in the 80s and 90s. 00:01:47.689 --> 00:01:51.959 In the first decade of this century, I went in house and I 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:53.379 did contracts at Halliburton. 00:01:53.839 --> 00:01:57.479 I leveraged that position as a general counsel's position at another oilfield 00:01:57.479 --> 00:02:02.574 service company who in 2007 had the largest bribery and corruption fine 00:02:02.574 --> 00:02:06.474 in the history of the world over, uh, there's a US law called the Foreign 00:02:06.474 --> 00:02:09.984 Corrupt Practices Act, which prevents US companies from engaging in bribery and 00:02:09.984 --> 00:02:12.144 corruption outside the United States. 00:02:12.945 --> 00:02:16.785 I was part of the new management team brought in to, uh, clean it up 00:02:16.845 --> 00:02:19.334 and put in a new compliance program. 00:02:19.945 --> 00:02:21.954 So that was really my first experience with compliance. 00:02:22.930 --> 00:02:26.290 I did that for a couple of years, the company got sold, my job went away. 00:02:26.290 --> 00:02:30.959 I decided, what I really wanted to do with my life was race bicycles. 00:02:31.010 --> 00:02:35.249 So I went off on this great adventure to race bicycles and I was over 50. 00:02:35.249 --> 00:02:36.690 I could ride in the senior division. 00:02:36.690 --> 00:02:40.989 I had great fun, got in great condition until, uh, one training 00:02:40.990 --> 00:02:42.400 ride, I got taken out by a Hummer. 00:02:42.954 --> 00:02:43.364 VictoriaM: Ooh. 00:02:43.519 --> 00:02:44.929 Tom Fox: that ended my cycling career. 00:02:45.619 --> 00:02:49.209 Fortunately, um, I wasn't banged up too badly. 00:02:49.209 --> 00:02:53.749 I was really bruised internally and just took forever to heal. 00:02:53.760 --> 00:02:56.079 So I was on a walker and then crutches and a cane. 00:02:56.539 --> 00:02:59.969 So after a couple of months of, uh, convalescence in the hospital 00:02:59.969 --> 00:03:02.849 and at home, I realized I was going to have to go back to work. 00:03:03.459 --> 00:03:09.259 And, um, so I got on my walker and huddled into my office and, 00:03:09.259 --> 00:03:11.039 decided what I really enjoyed. 00:03:11.394 --> 00:03:15.254 was building a compliance program inside of a corporation. 00:03:16.264 --> 00:03:22.754 And it really tied into my prior life as a trial lawyer in the following manner. 00:03:24.114 --> 00:03:28.314 What I saw in compliance was what I saw in safety in the 90s. 00:03:28.819 --> 00:03:34.099 That journey of safety being something everybody kind of knew about to 00:03:34.099 --> 00:03:41.139 number one priority of every company, everywhere, um, that became, uh, 00:03:41.139 --> 00:03:42.539 the same story for compliance. 00:03:42.949 --> 00:03:44.459 This was 2010. 00:03:44.559 --> 00:03:46.979 The only time I left the house was good physical therapy. 00:03:47.329 --> 00:03:48.339 So I couldn't meet people. 00:03:48.339 --> 00:03:50.539 I couldn't have a drink, couldn't have lunch, couldn't go to a 00:03:50.539 --> 00:03:52.039 conference, couldn't go to a meeting. 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:56.299 Um, and so I started exploring social media, which at that point 00:03:56.299 --> 00:03:57.739 in my life, I knew nothing about. 00:03:57.954 --> 00:04:00.934 VictoriaM: Well, it was also the very early days of social media. 00:04:01.569 --> 00:04:05.479 Tom Fox: So Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, and in six months, I built a worldwide 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:10.059 consulting practice literally out of my house and way before work from home. 00:04:10.509 --> 00:04:14.649 So I've been working from home since 2010, and that's how it started. 00:04:15.044 --> 00:04:15.464 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:04:15.694 --> 00:04:16.494 That's very cool. 00:04:16.754 --> 00:04:19.074 And then how did you get into podcasting? 00:04:20.009 --> 00:04:22.359 Tom Fox: So as a lawyer, I'd always written a lot of articles. 00:04:22.359 --> 00:04:25.999 So blogging was sort of natural extension as, and part of my 00:04:25.999 --> 00:04:28.849 social media marketing outreach. 00:04:29.209 --> 00:04:32.389 And then podcasting was a natural extension of blogging. 00:04:33.029 --> 00:04:35.449 And then in 2017, I got this bright idea. 00:04:35.979 --> 00:04:39.499 Well, let's form a network of compliance podcasters. 00:04:40.109 --> 00:04:42.759 So there's three trade organizations in my world. 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:46.579 And so I went to each one of them and said, Hey, let's form this consortium 00:04:46.869 --> 00:04:51.259 and we will be the one stop shop for all information in the compliance format. 00:04:52.029 --> 00:04:53.829 And we won't take away from what you're already doing. 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:56.979 Um, and I could get no interest. 00:04:57.474 --> 00:04:59.704 VictoriaM: Yeah, I was going to say, would they buy in at that point? 00:05:00.619 --> 00:05:01.529 Tom Fox: so I just said, bleep it. 00:05:01.529 --> 00:05:02.109 I'll do it myself. 00:05:02.109 --> 00:05:03.189 So I did. 00:05:03.774 --> 00:05:07.844 And so in 2019, I decided I either had to fully commit or move it 00:05:07.844 --> 00:05:11.084 back to hobby status and start practicing law full time again. 00:05:12.034 --> 00:05:13.394 For me, that meant compliance. 00:05:13.444 --> 00:05:18.544 And so I quit practicing law, bought all the cool toys, which you see. 00:05:18.904 --> 00:05:22.964 I built a huge network, and I mean huge network. 00:05:23.444 --> 00:05:26.234 And at the end of the year, I'd made about 10, 000. 00:05:26.614 --> 00:05:29.004 And I thought, well, that was an interesting experiment. 00:05:29.584 --> 00:05:30.884 I have to go back to playing lawyer. 00:05:31.374 --> 00:05:35.494 So I did in 2020 till they shut the country down on March 15th. 00:05:36.284 --> 00:05:42.034 And, uh, what happened was starting May 15th, I literally got a call 00:05:42.034 --> 00:05:46.914 from every product provider in the compliance space with, which had the 00:05:46.914 --> 00:05:51.964 same question, which was how long to get access to your network, because 00:05:51.965 --> 00:05:55.714 even by then I had the largest social media presence in compliance and prior 00:05:55.714 --> 00:06:00.054 to COVID almost all marketing was done at trade shows, conferences, breakfast 00:06:00.054 --> 00:06:03.259 roundtables, Or that sort of event. 00:06:04.359 --> 00:06:07.329 And of course that wasn't available and all that money was just 00:06:07.329 --> 00:06:08.699 sitting there waiting to be spent. 00:06:09.369 --> 00:06:11.029 So they spent it on my little network. 00:06:11.159 --> 00:06:16.869 And because of the work I'd done in 2019, the answer to everyone's 00:06:16.869 --> 00:06:19.799 question was the same 24 hours. 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:21.940 Cause it literally was just a plug and play. 00:06:22.589 --> 00:06:23.749 Because of everything I'd done. 00:06:23.749 --> 00:06:30.289 So my little world blew up and I have since that time tried to consolidate 00:06:30.329 --> 00:06:33.519 the explosive growth I had in 2020. 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:38.019 And like I went to 200, 000 downloads a month in one month. 00:06:38.019 --> 00:06:42.309 And then, um, so I've just tried to grow that network now and make 00:06:42.309 --> 00:06:46.219 it more professional and see if it can be an ongoing viable business. 00:06:47.384 --> 00:06:47.844 VictoriaM: I love it. 00:06:48.104 --> 00:06:48.494 I love it. 00:06:48.524 --> 00:06:56.234 And, uh, I am nowhere near as, uh, as close or as big as you are at this 00:06:56.244 --> 00:07:01.224 point in time, but absolutely see the, the role that podcasting plays 00:07:01.274 --> 00:07:06.134 in building connections in enabling leaders and companies to tell their 00:07:06.134 --> 00:07:12.014 stories and reaching people in a much more personal way, um, in a 00:07:12.014 --> 00:07:17.214 more impactful way than a lot of the traditional trade media conferences, 00:07:17.214 --> 00:07:20.864 et cetera, even though post COVID, a lot of those things have come back. 00:07:21.564 --> 00:07:24.244 All right, so let's talk a little bit about compliance. 00:07:24.514 --> 00:07:28.919 Um, And it sounds like you've done some pretty impressive things 00:07:28.929 --> 00:07:34.619 through your career, but what's critical about compliance today? 00:07:35.999 --> 00:07:36.499 Tom Fox: So. 00:07:36.954 --> 00:07:41.104 As I mentioned, I'm a recovering trial lawyer, and in the late 80s and early 00:07:41.104 --> 00:07:47.914 90s, there were three massive, and I mean massive, chemical plant explosions. 00:07:48.544 --> 00:07:53.704 In Houston, Harris County and the Gulf Coast for the Texas Gulf Coast, huge loss 00:07:53.714 --> 00:08:00.774 of life, millions of dollars in damage all leading up to the Exxon Valdez and 00:08:01.154 --> 00:08:11.504 the Exxon really became the leader in safety because Exxon said, we will make 00:08:11.814 --> 00:08:13.174 this will never happen to us again. 00:08:13.704 --> 00:08:14.714 We are very embarrassed. 00:08:15.529 --> 00:08:17.559 And we are not gonna let this happen. 00:08:17.559 --> 00:08:20.559 And we're going to make safety the number one priority of our company. 00:08:20.989 --> 00:08:21.429 And guess what? 00:08:21.429 --> 00:08:22.739 If you want to do business with us. 00:08:23.074 --> 00:08:25.344 You have to make safety the number one priority. 00:08:26.074 --> 00:08:30.034 So all of these companies that did business with Exxon, uh, had 00:08:30.034 --> 00:08:32.924 to, uh, put safety as number one. 00:08:32.924 --> 00:08:36.654 Now, most of those, many of those, I should say, had gone through 00:08:36.654 --> 00:08:38.224 these chemical plant explosions. 00:08:38.534 --> 00:08:44.714 Chevron, um, used to be Amico, but it's now BP, uh, and one other one. 00:08:45.174 --> 00:08:47.654 But, they had, you know, huge losses. 00:08:48.184 --> 00:08:50.564 And so they changed their safety culture. 00:08:50.564 --> 00:08:55.884 So what I saw from that was when leadership makes a decision 00:08:55.884 --> 00:08:57.164 to change something, they can. 00:08:58.129 --> 00:09:01.479 And I, uh, when I went in the corporate world, I went with Halliburton, 00:09:01.589 --> 00:09:06.759 obviously an oilfield service company and Halliburton had that same ethos. 00:09:07.109 --> 00:09:08.949 Safety is number one in our company. 00:09:09.479 --> 00:09:12.049 Now it doesn't matter to me whether it was altruistic. 00:09:12.049 --> 00:09:14.349 It doesn't matter to me if it was a business decision. 00:09:14.419 --> 00:09:17.679 The result was safety was number one. 00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:20.979 And, you know, even lawyers opened every meeting with a safety moment 00:09:21.829 --> 00:09:23.639 and that really drives home safety. 00:09:23.709 --> 00:09:24.869 Now you're still going to have incidents. 00:09:24.869 --> 00:09:27.019 You're still going to have accidents because people are involved. 00:09:28.359 --> 00:09:30.589 There was a huge shift in the nineties. 00:09:30.974 --> 00:09:34.364 That shift didn't start with leadership just saying we're going to change. 00:09:34.804 --> 00:09:37.574 They put in safety programs, they put in training programs, they 00:09:37.574 --> 00:09:41.304 gave up employees, the ability to raise their hand and speak up. 00:09:41.804 --> 00:09:45.224 Um, they did a monitoring of safety. 00:09:45.714 --> 00:09:50.724 Data to make sure that an ongoing basis safety was being still taken care of. 00:09:50.724 --> 00:09:54.704 So a lot of, almost all of the things you have to do in compliance. 00:09:55.404 --> 00:09:58.694 Things we had to do in the nineties and first five years 00:09:58.694 --> 00:10:00.234 of this decade around safety. 00:10:00.884 --> 00:10:05.004 And so I really looked to safety and frankly, compliance is still not as 00:10:05.004 --> 00:10:07.414 sophisticated as safety is in training. 00:10:08.324 --> 00:10:13.244 Um, and I don't know why we can't get there, but we can, for me, I 00:10:13.244 --> 00:10:18.134 had that model in mind and I saw it play out in front of me in the first 00:10:18.134 --> 00:10:23.094 decade of this year, this decade, uh, this century compliance was 00:10:23.114 --> 00:10:24.964 written by lawyers and for lawyers. 00:10:25.724 --> 00:10:30.404 You were these massive codes of conduct and massive policies and procedures, 00:10:30.409 --> 00:10:32.749 VictoriaM: Really kind of boring. 00:10:33.344 --> 00:10:36.274 Tom Fox: Well, not for a lawyer, but you couldn't read 00:10:36.284 --> 00:10:37.344 them if you weren't a lawyer. 00:10:37.384 --> 00:10:41.044 And so the person who's trying to read it, trying to do the right thing. 00:10:41.704 --> 00:10:41.944 It was. 00:10:42.484 --> 00:10:43.614 Virtually encipherable. 00:10:44.034 --> 00:10:48.314 So that was sort of the first evolution of compliance was to move 00:10:48.314 --> 00:10:52.934 away from strictly a legal, um, basis. 00:10:52.934 --> 00:10:58.514 And then it moved to more business basis, meaning that it had to integrate into 00:10:58.514 --> 00:11:01.494 the company and not simply be no, Dr. 00:11:01.494 --> 00:11:04.844 No, from the land of no, you had to actually help the business. 00:11:05.304 --> 00:11:09.254 Well, now the evolution is data and data analytics. 00:11:09.894 --> 00:11:11.874 And what can you move? 00:11:11.874 --> 00:11:15.524 There are three parts to every compliance program, prevent, detect, and remediate. 00:11:16.364 --> 00:11:20.874 We've gotten pretty good at detection, but we are still moving towards prevention. 00:11:21.154 --> 00:11:24.464 And that's what data analytics promises, which is to prevent 00:11:24.464 --> 00:11:27.854 something from happening, whether it's a safety incident or whether it's a 00:11:28.184 --> 00:11:30.244 compliance violation before it happens. 00:11:30.364 --> 00:11:30.724 So 00:11:31.309 --> 00:11:36.399 VictoriaM: So what are the trends that you see in compliance today? 00:11:36.419 --> 00:11:40.910 And in particular, when we think about, um, chemicals and energy 00:11:40.910 --> 00:11:43.950 and this heavy duty infrastructure that we're working with. 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:47.950 Tom Fox: I typically focus on safety because in the chemical industry, 00:11:48.250 --> 00:11:53.650 compliance to me is largely around safety or HSE, safety, health, and environment. 00:11:54.260 --> 00:11:59.880 A huge part of ESG and something that every corporation involved in this 00:11:59.910 --> 00:12:05.810 industry, um, literally has to have as part of their corporate governance. 00:12:06.389 --> 00:12:12.119 I still do contract work or small contractors along the Texas Gulf 00:12:12.119 --> 00:12:13.720 Coast in the petrochemical space. 00:12:14.550 --> 00:12:20.360 And so these are 30, 50, 150 million companies that are too small to 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:21.480 have their own general counsel. 00:12:22.280 --> 00:12:29.380 And I, uh, see in these contracts and increased awareness of compliance 00:12:29.800 --> 00:12:34.940 because the plant owners are requiring contractors to sign on 00:12:35.019 --> 00:12:37.419 to very robust compliance programs. 00:12:37.899 --> 00:12:38.879 Part of it is around. 00:12:39.525 --> 00:12:43.005 You know, gifts, travel, and entertainment for plant employees. 00:12:43.325 --> 00:12:45.305 Part of it is around conflicts of interest. 00:12:45.675 --> 00:12:48.635 Part of it is around paying bribes to third parties. 00:12:49.175 --> 00:12:54.365 Part of it is around making sure everyone has their documents that 00:12:54.574 --> 00:12:57.194 is hired and works for a company. 00:12:57.204 --> 00:13:00.465 Part of it is around, of course, drugs and alcohol use. 00:13:00.875 --> 00:13:06.500 Um, And that's, you know, for safety reasons, obviously, but, um, so 00:13:06.500 --> 00:13:11.450 I see all of these requirements that the top chemical plants have 00:13:11.450 --> 00:13:14.950 for themselves being pushed down in these contractual provisions. 00:13:14.950 --> 00:13:21.299 So, literally, a 50M dollar company that does 1 thing very well, they 00:13:21.320 --> 00:13:28.910 have to sign on to and have compliance programs in place for the Chevrons of the 00:13:28.910 --> 00:13:30.910 world, or you name the chemical plant. 00:13:31.675 --> 00:13:34.415 VictoriaM: Do you think they understand it? 00:13:34.525 --> 00:13:38.955 I think to some of the, contracts that, you know, even when I was at Shell and 00:13:38.955 --> 00:13:42.855 Clariant, there were occasionally there would be a provision thrown in and then 00:13:42.855 --> 00:13:44.225 somebody be like, Oh yeah, that's great. 00:13:44.534 --> 00:13:45.454 Um, we can sign that. 00:13:45.484 --> 00:13:49.015 And yet, and then somebody else takes a look at it and be like, Oh, 00:13:49.104 --> 00:13:50.475 do you know what you just agreed to? 00:13:50.705 --> 00:13:55.385 So do you think there's a, a clarity of understanding and how. 00:13:56.060 --> 00:14:00.760 How do companies ensure that they understand in order to be able to comply? 00:14:01.605 --> 00:14:04.515 Tom Fox: Well, if they have me as a lawyer, they do because 00:14:04.515 --> 00:14:05.565 I know what to look for. 00:14:05.995 --> 00:14:09.215 Uh, so I don't focus really on the commercial terms. 00:14:09.745 --> 00:14:11.855 Um, I know what the legal terms are. 00:14:11.855 --> 00:14:15.234 I know what they should say in the petrochemical industry. 00:14:15.234 --> 00:14:19.274 One, in contractual negotiations, we're all moving towards the same goal. 00:14:20.140 --> 00:14:22.390 Doesn't mean we don't represent our client, but everybody 00:14:22.390 --> 00:14:23.500 wants a contract sign. 00:14:23.620 --> 00:14:26.860 The plant owner wants a contract sign, and the contractor wants a contract sign. 00:14:27.560 --> 00:14:33.100 And they're fairly, uh, established parameters around compliance, around 00:14:33.100 --> 00:14:35.740 risk management, and the legal terms. 00:14:35.950 --> 00:14:38.470 Now there's some room for negotiation, certainly. 00:14:38.880 --> 00:14:43.565 Um, and I guess the easiest would be are you going to cap your overall liability? 00:14:43.815 --> 00:14:45.115 If so, what's that cap going to be? 00:14:45.115 --> 00:14:46.805 Is it going to be the amount of insurance required? 00:14:47.055 --> 00:14:48.345 Is it going to be something above that? 00:14:48.345 --> 00:14:49.515 Is it going to be 15 million? 00:14:49.515 --> 00:14:50.695 Is it going to be 20 million? 00:14:51.255 --> 00:14:53.135 Uh, because that's a big deal. 00:14:53.975 --> 00:14:58.085 Because you have unlimited liability, potentially you could lose your company. 00:14:58.684 --> 00:15:02.235 But, um, so everybody kind of understands what the parameters are. 00:15:02.235 --> 00:15:06.535 And, um, you can have a tough negotiation and still be fair. 00:15:06.745 --> 00:15:09.555 And my job is to, I don't tell clients what to do. 00:15:09.555 --> 00:15:10.685 I say, here's your risk. 00:15:11.105 --> 00:15:12.655 You have unlimited liability. 00:15:12.655 --> 00:15:16.085 If you want to swallow very hard and accept that that's your call 00:15:16.115 --> 00:15:17.175 cause you're the business owner. 00:15:17.705 --> 00:15:21.085 VictoriaM: One of the challenges I hear from companies sometimes, is 00:15:21.555 --> 00:15:26.169 different standards and understanding when they're working globally. 00:15:26.470 --> 00:15:28.620 Right, because depending on who you're dealing with, they 00:15:28.620 --> 00:15:29.800 don't always understand that. 00:15:29.940 --> 00:15:30.310 Right? 00:15:30.310 --> 00:15:37.679 So a counterpart in India may not recognize that what they're doing, which 00:15:37.680 --> 00:15:41.860 may be a standard business practice to them may actually be in conflict with. 00:15:42.890 --> 00:15:43.250 A U. 00:15:43.250 --> 00:15:43.460 S. 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:45.770 perspective, a European perspective, et cetera. 00:15:45.770 --> 00:15:47.810 So do you see that often? 00:15:49.150 --> 00:15:53.415 Tom Fox: Uh, it used to be more, um, common, but now 00:15:53.445 --> 00:15:54.815 if you do business with a U. 00:15:54.815 --> 00:15:54.965 S. 00:15:54.995 --> 00:15:58.535 company and you're in India, or you name the country, you're going to be 00:15:58.725 --> 00:16:02.924 generally aware that you're going to have to do business ethically and compliance. 00:16:03.335 --> 00:16:07.255 And if you don't, um, it's up to the company that hires you 00:16:07.255 --> 00:16:08.394 to give you that training. 00:16:08.725 --> 00:16:09.455 But most. 00:16:10.310 --> 00:16:11.490 Businesses outside the U. 00:16:11.490 --> 00:16:15.790 S., they understand that it is a true business differentiator and 00:16:15.790 --> 00:16:19.889 a business plus for them to do business in compliance with U. 00:16:19.890 --> 00:16:20.080 S. 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:25.520 law, to have had training, and to be able to demonstrate that they can meet The U. 00:16:25.520 --> 00:16:25.670 S. 00:16:25.700 --> 00:16:27.330 company's requirements under U. 00:16:27.330 --> 00:16:27.540 S. 00:16:27.540 --> 00:16:32.100 law and, uh, just makes them more marketable as a subcontractor 00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:33.020 or a business partner, 00:16:34.010 --> 00:16:34.560 VictoriaM: Make sense. 00:16:34.880 --> 00:16:35.940 What about digital? 00:16:36.140 --> 00:16:36.450 Right? 00:16:36.450 --> 00:16:41.469 So we're living in the world of, uh, of digital, the digital age, um, digital 00:16:41.470 --> 00:16:46.080 transformation, AI and data analytics, and you referenced data earlier, um. 00:16:47.205 --> 00:16:51.995 How are they, uh, impacting compliance practices would be one thing. 00:16:52.035 --> 00:16:56.534 And then the second piece is, are there new things to be looking for 00:16:56.615 --> 00:16:59.854 and what do companies to be, need to be aware of as they go more digital? 00:17:00.754 --> 00:17:04.554 Tom Fox: The evolution has been fascinating because it started with 00:17:04.554 --> 00:17:11.864 data and, uh, sort of in the last second decade of this century and the DOJ started 00:17:11.864 --> 00:17:14.114 talking about data and data analytics. 00:17:14.634 --> 00:17:19.014 And then they got more serious around the time of the pandemic, and then 00:17:19.014 --> 00:17:23.884 they hired a guy who was a chief compliance officer at a company 00:17:23.924 --> 00:17:25.974 called AB InBev, which in the U. 00:17:25.974 --> 00:17:26.124 S. 00:17:26.124 --> 00:17:26.944 is Budweiser. 00:17:27.804 --> 00:17:33.184 And he, his company had gone through an enforcement action, and as a result 00:17:33.184 --> 00:17:37.464 of that, as part of his remediation, He put together the most sophisticated data 00:17:37.464 --> 00:17:40.224 analytics program for compliance in the U. 00:17:40.224 --> 00:17:40.614 S. 00:17:41.164 --> 00:17:46.654 And the DOJ hired him, and he brought that institutional knowledge 00:17:46.654 --> 00:17:47.984 to the Department of Justice. 00:17:48.304 --> 00:17:54.324 So number one, the DOJ could tell you had a really adequate data analytics 00:17:54.324 --> 00:17:57.044 program, but equally importantly, they could tell when you didn't. 00:17:57.809 --> 00:18:04.559 And so last week, we had a huge release of information from the DOJ on their 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:10.269 expectations around compliance and data was once again, a very big part of it. 00:18:10.459 --> 00:18:11.929 But here was the twist. 00:18:12.739 --> 00:18:16.159 We've always known you had to have a data analytics program, but 00:18:16.159 --> 00:18:18.779 the DOJ focused on data access. 00:18:19.464 --> 00:18:20.464 Which is different. 00:18:21.314 --> 00:18:25.704 And they said the compliance function has to have access across 00:18:25.724 --> 00:18:28.414 all data silos within your company. 00:18:28.514 --> 00:18:29.474 And that means all. 00:18:30.144 --> 00:18:34.654 And if you don't, you're going to get negatively graded. 00:18:35.214 --> 00:18:38.134 And if you say, well, I didn't have the resources. 00:18:38.354 --> 00:18:39.914 Well, shame on you. 00:18:39.964 --> 00:18:44.074 You're going to get negatively graded and that they have elevated. 00:18:44.684 --> 00:18:49.124 the compliance function to having access to the data and then using the data. 00:18:49.554 --> 00:18:54.164 It's no, it used to be sort of a gold standard, then it moved to best practices. 00:18:54.164 --> 00:18:55.634 Now it's just table stakes. 00:18:56.264 --> 00:18:59.244 So that has been one evolution. 00:18:59.414 --> 00:19:02.414 Literally, we saw that capstone last week. 00:19:03.134 --> 00:19:08.924 When it comes to AI, obviously we're still sort of in the infancy of that, but in 00:19:08.924 --> 00:19:14.994 the compliance realm, what the DOJ has said is it's about your data quality. 00:19:16.094 --> 00:19:20.914 Uh, what's going in to your AI or using chat GPT, which is everyone's 00:19:20.914 --> 00:19:23.044 data, or do you have a dedicated. 00:19:23.170 --> 00:19:29.429 Uh, AI or generative AI rather for your company with your company's data. 00:19:29.869 --> 00:19:32.759 How do you determine data quality and data security? 00:19:33.309 --> 00:19:37.330 The issue I have with chat GPT and not really, I don't know if issue 00:19:37.330 --> 00:19:44.230 is the right word, but I ask a compliance question, I get an answer. 00:19:44.350 --> 00:19:46.960 I know if it's right or wrong because I know the answer. 00:19:47.990 --> 00:19:50.680 The problem is if you don't know the answer and you ask a 00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:53.130 question, you don't know if you've been given the right answer. 00:19:54.060 --> 00:19:58.880 And so the, the best example, uh, is I think everyone's heard of the 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:04.030 lawyers who filed some briefs done by CHAT GPT and it turned out it 00:20:04.030 --> 00:20:06.250 cited cases which didn't exist. 00:20:07.020 --> 00:20:08.990 And everyone went, ah, stupid lawyers. 00:20:09.340 --> 00:20:10.690 And yes, they were. 00:20:11.140 --> 00:20:15.180 But the greater point is, You have to double check the information you're given 00:20:15.520 --> 00:20:20.290 and it was that lawyer's responsibility to go site check those cases to see if 00:20:20.370 --> 00:20:25.299 one they existed to they said what chat GPT said they did for precedent purposes. 00:20:25.790 --> 00:20:32.050 So, I have asked chat GPT some pretty, uh, detailed questions about, uh, 00:20:32.059 --> 00:20:35.590 risk and risk management and I've got some pretty good answers back, but I. 00:20:35.990 --> 00:20:37.620 I'm confident I know the answers. 00:20:38.250 --> 00:20:42.360 If you're a newbie and you put it in, you don't know the answer. 00:20:42.360 --> 00:20:44.780 So that's the biggest problem right now. 00:20:44.939 --> 00:20:45.199 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:20:45.199 --> 00:20:45.830 It's a risk. 00:20:45.949 --> 00:20:50.830 Well, and even, Google is offering up a lot of AI based answers right now. 00:20:50.900 --> 00:20:53.680 I've seen this myself personally, I forget what I was looking up and 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.160 I'm like, That cannot be right. 00:20:56.170 --> 00:20:58.070 Like I was looking for resources. 00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:00.100 Um, I think I was helping with one of my kids with a 00:21:00.100 --> 00:21:02.080 problem, a school related thing. 00:21:02.349 --> 00:21:04.939 And I was like, I don't think I believe this. 00:21:04.990 --> 00:21:05.310 Right. 00:21:05.310 --> 00:21:10.029 And so, um, it's presenting information that may or may not be factual. 00:21:10.029 --> 00:21:13.019 In fact, one example as well that came up recently, business colleague 00:21:13.029 --> 00:21:17.629 was telling me that, um, she had gone on in it searched on The Chemical 00:21:17.629 --> 00:21:22.270 Summit, which is the conference that that I host that I started last year. 00:21:22.270 --> 00:21:25.719 This is year 2 and she's like, well, it's interesting. 00:21:25.719 --> 00:21:27.509 It came up with AI answer. 00:21:28.959 --> 00:21:32.879 It attributed the conference to a completely different company as the 00:21:32.879 --> 00:21:36.389 founder of the company, I don't know what's working behind the scenes, to 00:21:36.389 --> 00:21:40.179 your point, if you don't have at least a glimmer of what the right answer 00:21:40.179 --> 00:21:43.129 is, you could be really led astray. 00:21:43.139 --> 00:21:46.119 Tom Fox: So the, yeah, the exact, this happened to me. 00:21:46.669 --> 00:21:50.349 I was researching a bank fraud case from the nineties. 00:21:50.964 --> 00:21:56.114 And the, there were two defendants, two men, one of the men was married to Linda 00:21:56.124 --> 00:22:00.824 Carter, who was the original Wonder Woman, and I vividly remembered that, 00:22:01.744 --> 00:22:03.864 um, you know, for all the boy reasons. 00:22:05.294 --> 00:22:13.604 Uh, so I, I was Googling, or our chat GPT asked to tell me about the two defendants, 00:22:13.654 --> 00:22:18.906 and they said the defendant who was married to Linda Carter, And I said, who 00:22:18.906 --> 00:22:22.314 is the son in law of the other defendant? 00:22:23.114 --> 00:22:24.404 I knew that wasn't right. 00:22:24.824 --> 00:22:27.304 So I said, who is he married to? 00:22:27.304 --> 00:22:29.954 And it gave me the daughter of the co defendant. 00:22:31.044 --> 00:22:33.574 And I knew that wasn't right, because it wasn't listed as Linda Carter. 00:22:33.574 --> 00:22:38.964 So the third query I said, please describe the relationship between Linda Carter 00:22:39.075 --> 00:22:40.724 and this other woman, whoever it was. 00:22:41.644 --> 00:22:45.234 And it came back, we are sorry, we made a mistake. 00:22:45.364 --> 00:22:48.724 Robert Altman was married to Linda Carter, not so and so. 00:22:49.074 --> 00:22:54.054 So one, number one, chat GPT apologized at two, it recognized it made a mistake. 00:22:54.054 --> 00:22:57.024 But if I had known that, and it was absolutely positive about 00:22:57.024 --> 00:23:01.214 that, when I typed it in, I would have put the wrong information in 00:23:01.214 --> 00:23:03.154 whatever resource I was creating 00:23:03.639 --> 00:23:05.509 VictoriaM: Well, and so this, I think is 1 of those things that 00:23:05.509 --> 00:23:06.909 keeps people a little bit fearful. 00:23:06.909 --> 00:23:11.199 If I come back to compliance, you know, you reference the D. 00:23:11.199 --> 00:23:11.309 O. 00:23:11.309 --> 00:23:11.709 J. 00:23:11.709 --> 00:23:15.989 and I think, people's greatest fear around compliance around anti bribery 00:23:15.989 --> 00:23:21.409 around all kinds of things, because you did not want to get called into a DOJ 00:23:21.459 --> 00:23:23.489 query investigation, et cetera, et cetera. 00:23:23.829 --> 00:23:28.350 So my guess is people are a bit concerned rightfully so that one of the risks 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:35.190 around AI, the risks around some of our digital solutions is there's a lot 00:23:35.190 --> 00:23:37.450 of imperfect information out there. 00:23:37.470 --> 00:23:42.540 And so sorting through that imperfect information, um, is pretty challenging. 00:23:43.999 --> 00:23:45.029 Tom Fox: right now. 00:23:45.029 --> 00:23:48.960 I have found it very useful in terms of, uh, new ideas. 00:23:49.570 --> 00:23:53.310 Or give me different ways to think about things or put a transcript in 00:23:53.310 --> 00:23:54.930 and get a 1st draft of a something. 00:23:55.250 --> 00:23:59.910 So, it can be useful if you have a general understanding of the subject matter. 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:05.550 So, and I'm sure it's only going to get better, but right now, what the 00:24:05.550 --> 00:24:11.820 DOJ said for compliance is you have to have clear visibility into the data. 00:24:11.830 --> 00:24:13.460 The data has to be secure. 00:24:13.980 --> 00:24:15.810 And you have to know where the answer is coming from. 00:24:16.310 --> 00:24:21.340 And as a lawyer, if, uh, there's another example, I think it was Air Canada. 00:24:21.870 --> 00:24:26.929 They had a, a bot that, um, customers could use on customer service questions. 00:24:26.929 --> 00:24:30.459 And the bot told some customer, do something this 00:24:30.459 --> 00:24:31.709 way and you'll get a refund. 00:24:31.709 --> 00:24:32.880 And it turned out it wasn't true. 00:24:33.620 --> 00:24:37.580 And so he sued Air Canada and Air Canada said, well, it wasn't us, it was the bot. 00:24:37.700 --> 00:24:42.780 No, one thing I learned a long time ago, if you, if it went out under 00:24:42.780 --> 00:24:44.990 your name, you're responsible. 00:24:45.635 --> 00:24:48.675 Now you may have an indemnity right from somebody, but you know, if you're 00:24:48.675 --> 00:24:51.655 in a chemical plant and there's an accident, they're going to come to you. 00:24:52.405 --> 00:24:56.625 So the same basic legal principles apply around AI. 00:24:56.854 --> 00:24:59.015 Once it goes out under your name, it's yours. 00:25:00.320 --> 00:25:02.560 VictoriaM: So what role does lead do leaders play in this? 00:25:02.560 --> 00:25:05.560 When I think about just, you know, we've touched on a variety of things 00:25:05.560 --> 00:25:09.770 related to compliance and ethics, I guess, ties into this in some ways. 00:25:10.190 --> 00:25:17.689 Um, whether it be HSE, data analytics, the use of AI, what role do company 00:25:17.689 --> 00:25:23.309 leaders play in fostering that culture of compliance and, and really instilling it? 00:25:24.745 --> 00:25:26.755 Tom Fox: Leaders are absolutely necessary. 00:25:26.895 --> 00:25:30.995 It is absolutely necessary that they lead not simply in 00:25:30.995 --> 00:25:33.215 thought or in word, but indeed. 00:25:33.765 --> 00:25:36.475 And they have to talk the talk and walk the walk. 00:25:36.755 --> 00:25:40.325 It does not work if your leaders do not. 00:25:42.180 --> 00:25:45.900 I'm doing business ethically and compliance and demanding their company 00:25:45.950 --> 00:25:47.830 do business ethically and in compliance. 00:25:47.840 --> 00:25:50.570 So it's just like safety back in the 90s. 00:25:51.070 --> 00:25:54.020 And when Exxon said, we're going to change and they did that came 00:25:54.030 --> 00:25:58.500 straight from the top and that That principle still holds true today. 00:25:59.669 --> 00:26:00.159 VictoriaM: All right, Tom. 00:26:00.300 --> 00:26:02.180 So let's turn our talk to podcasting. 00:26:02.600 --> 00:26:08.810 So you have been, uh, on the air, I guess we could say, uh, although 00:26:08.810 --> 00:26:14.089 it's, you've been digital and on video and publishing podcasts for a 00:26:14.090 --> 00:26:16.239 decade, primarily about compliance. 00:26:16.439 --> 00:26:22.470 How is this influencing business and compliance? 00:26:22.490 --> 00:26:26.580 What do you see changing from the time that you started, um, doing what you 00:26:26.580 --> 00:26:31.650 do to where we are today in terms of the role of podcasting in business, 00:26:31.659 --> 00:26:33.369 in compliance, in other areas? 00:26:33.369 --> 00:26:33.679 Tom Fox: Sure. 00:26:33.699 --> 00:26:37.309 So there for the business, there are five reasons to have a podcast. 00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:38.839 Number one, thought leadership. 00:26:39.209 --> 00:26:40.699 Number two, audience engagement. 00:26:40.999 --> 00:26:42.649 Number three, relationship building. 00:26:43.109 --> 00:26:45.999 Number four, content creation and number five conversion. 00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:48.819 So each one of those is a little bit different and has 00:26:48.819 --> 00:26:50.199 a little bit different focus. 00:26:50.479 --> 00:26:54.939 You can have multiple reasons within there, but, um, you need 00:26:54.939 --> 00:26:56.609 to have a reason for doing that. 00:26:56.689 --> 00:27:00.719 Having said that every business should have a podcast period. 00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:03.679 You are missing the boat if you don't have a podcast. 00:27:04.259 --> 00:27:04.849 Over 00:27:07.269 --> 00:27:11.639 85 million people listen to multiple podcasts per week. 00:27:12.069 --> 00:27:16.459 And over 160 million people have listened to a podcast. 00:27:16.989 --> 00:27:19.099 Those numbers are just incredible. 00:27:19.719 --> 00:27:24.409 If you're not using a podcast format to publicize yourself and your company, 00:27:24.719 --> 00:27:26.959 you're missing a incredible resource. 00:27:27.369 --> 00:27:27.839 Number one. 00:27:27.849 --> 00:27:31.199 Number two is from a podcast. 00:27:31.209 --> 00:27:36.039 You can generate social media marketing content and create video grams, 00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:39.559 audio grams, tweets, LinkedIn posts, Facebook posts, Instagram posts. 00:27:39.560 --> 00:27:41.899 If you want to go all the way, you can do a Tik TOK post. 00:27:42.469 --> 00:27:44.859 Um, but, uh, it's, it's. 00:27:45.339 --> 00:27:49.869 As powerful a marketing tool as you can have, it's not going to 00:27:49.899 --> 00:27:52.489 replace what you're doing, but it's going to supplement it. 00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:54.369 People trust. 00:27:55.829 --> 00:27:59.739 because of the audio format more than they trust the printed 00:27:59.739 --> 00:28:01.659 word or even visual or video. 00:28:02.669 --> 00:28:06.049 Uh, but if I go back to those five reasons to start a podcast, number 00:28:06.049 --> 00:28:09.829 one, thought leadership, you want to show you're a thought leader. 00:28:10.529 --> 00:28:14.339 Well, um, here's the great thing about a thought leadership podcast. 00:28:15.719 --> 00:28:19.029 You get to learn from every person you talk to. 00:28:19.579 --> 00:28:24.099 And I see around corners further and faster than anyone compliance. 00:28:24.109 --> 00:28:27.899 It's not because I'm the smartest person is because I'm talking to the smartest 00:28:27.909 --> 00:28:32.549 people and I'm putting all those dots together because I'm talking to everyone. 00:28:32.999 --> 00:28:40.324 And so it gives me the ability to improve my Speaking skills, my book, writing 00:28:40.324 --> 00:28:41.994 skills, my thought leadership skills. 00:28:41.994 --> 00:28:46.534 Cause I'm interviewing people to, um, relationship building. 00:28:47.974 --> 00:28:52.664 If you want to do business with a company and I'll just use myself. 00:28:52.664 --> 00:28:55.074 I mean, Melomans and my name is Tom Fox. 00:28:55.074 --> 00:28:56.044 I'm a solo lawyer. 00:28:56.044 --> 00:28:57.224 I've experienced in contracts. 00:28:57.224 --> 00:28:59.764 I'd like to talk to you about doing contract work for you. 00:29:00.344 --> 00:29:04.944 They may or may not respond by email them and say, My name is Tom Fox. 00:29:04.974 --> 00:29:06.154 I have this podcast network. 00:29:06.154 --> 00:29:09.624 I want to interview you for a podcast and I want you to talk about you. 00:29:10.284 --> 00:29:14.384 You will get 100 percent response 100 percent of the time and 00:29:14.384 --> 00:29:15.834 it will be 100 percent yes. 00:29:16.344 --> 00:29:18.404 Everybody wants to talk about themselves. 00:29:19.324 --> 00:29:25.084 Uh, three relationship building, excuse me, um, content creation. 00:29:26.544 --> 00:29:29.684 When we were getting ready for the pod, you asked me how I 00:29:29.934 --> 00:29:31.954 managed to write all these books. 00:29:32.384 --> 00:29:39.704 Well, it's because the podcast is a part of my content creation, a process. 00:29:40.014 --> 00:29:45.524 It can be, um, a podcast leads to a blog post, leads to a white 00:29:45.524 --> 00:29:47.194 paper, leads to a chapter of a book. 00:29:48.484 --> 00:29:55.264 can be, uh, I wrote, uh, modestly, I would say the definitive compliance handbook. 00:29:55.284 --> 00:29:56.364 And I wrote it. 00:29:57.434 --> 00:30:01.434 And to edit and proofread, I can't just read. 00:30:01.454 --> 00:30:02.964 I have to read out loud. 00:30:03.784 --> 00:30:07.694 And it dawned on me that if I'm reading this out loud, that's 00:30:07.694 --> 00:30:10.084 a podcast if I record it. 00:30:10.434 --> 00:30:16.674 So for a year, every day, I did a podcast based upon a couple of pages 00:30:16.674 --> 00:30:20.974 I wrote for a book and I literally had a red pen with me and every 00:30:20.974 --> 00:30:22.354 time I saw a mistake, I circled it. 00:30:22.354 --> 00:30:24.724 I didn't edit while I was recording. 00:30:24.724 --> 00:30:26.494 I just circled it for later reference. 00:30:27.184 --> 00:30:28.464 And so that worked for me. 00:30:29.054 --> 00:30:31.774 Uh, you can kind of use the flip side of that. 00:30:31.774 --> 00:30:35.574 Say you want to, uh, my latest book I published this summer. 00:30:36.254 --> 00:30:41.904 Uh, I, um, did a 10 part podcast series. 00:30:42.324 --> 00:30:45.764 On 10 separate things you have to do if you find yourself 00:30:45.764 --> 00:30:47.134 in an enforcement action. 00:30:47.924 --> 00:30:55.184 And I use those 10 podcasts to form the basis of 10 separate chapters for my book. 00:30:55.394 --> 00:30:58.774 So, uh, it's a wide variety of, of ways there. 00:30:59.154 --> 00:31:04.544 Conversion is how do you convert somebody from a top of the funnel, listener, 00:31:04.564 --> 00:31:09.734 engager, going behind your gated website, whatever it may be to a customer. 00:31:10.204 --> 00:31:12.634 So that's a different track as well. 00:31:13.534 --> 00:31:14.744 I got one in there somewhere. 00:31:15.084 --> 00:31:17.824 Um, but I'll think 00:31:17.844 --> 00:31:20.084 VictoriaM: Well, Tom, I'm gonna, I've got a little bit to learn from you 00:31:20.094 --> 00:31:25.334 because I do have some books on my horizon, um, leaning in, obviously, to 00:31:25.334 --> 00:31:29.464 what I've done with the podcast, so, uh, you know, but you are way far ahead 00:31:29.464 --> 00:31:32.634 of me on that, so I'm going to have to, um, learn some of your wisdom and 00:31:32.634 --> 00:31:34.584 methodologies, but I agree with you. 00:31:34.584 --> 00:31:39.339 I mean, I think, uh, Podcasting has a huge influence on business, and I certainly 00:31:39.339 --> 00:31:42.689 see it with the folks I interview, with the conversations I have, with the 00:31:42.689 --> 00:31:47.209 relationships I've built, um, across the industry and, you know, one of the 00:31:47.219 --> 00:31:51.639 things that always amazes me when I, um, when I talk to people, number one, just 00:31:52.139 --> 00:31:56.899 how personal it is, not just about me, but about the leader and the number of 00:31:56.899 --> 00:32:00.979 times I've had, um, People tell me, oh, yeah, I listened to one of your podcast 00:32:00.979 --> 00:32:05.459 episodes when I was going to interview with that company or with that leader, 00:32:05.859 --> 00:32:10.829 and I understand a lot more, um, because you understand a lot more now, I would 00:32:10.829 --> 00:32:15.449 tell you in the world of compliance, uh, if this falls into a compliance category. 00:32:16.024 --> 00:32:18.744 Um, there's a lot of leaders that are still concerned about being on 00:32:18.744 --> 00:32:22.664 a podcast, certainly in the chemical industry, because, um, corporate 00:32:22.664 --> 00:32:25.834 communications doesn't want to invest relations is afraid of it. 00:32:25.844 --> 00:32:29.164 But, you know, as as you and I talked about before we got started, 00:32:29.634 --> 00:32:31.064 this is a friendly conversation. 00:32:31.284 --> 00:32:32.734 You know, there are no state secrets. 00:32:32.734 --> 00:32:34.794 It is not investigative journalism. 00:32:34.834 --> 00:32:36.944 Uh, if you're looking for that look elsewhere. 00:32:37.724 --> 00:32:39.814 Tom Fox: So let me give you the best answer to that. 00:32:40.024 --> 00:32:40.384 VictoriaM: Yeah. 00:32:41.624 --> 00:32:45.824 Tom Fox: Uh, I read about a company that started an internal podcast for 00:32:45.854 --> 00:32:52.004 company employees only, and it was senior executives on whatever the topics were. 00:32:52.704 --> 00:32:57.674 And it turned out that the podcast was hugely successful and not 00:32:57.674 --> 00:32:58.939 for the reason they started it. 00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:07.799 It was successful because it humanized the ELT, who most people had never met. 00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:12.749 I mean, when I was in Halliburton, I think I knew one of 10 people on the ELT and 00:33:12.749 --> 00:33:17.529 that's because he was the general counsel and I was in the legal department, but it 00:33:17.529 --> 00:33:20.899 actually drove positive corporate culture. 00:33:21.259 --> 00:33:25.049 Because they felt like they had a relationship with those people and 00:33:25.049 --> 00:33:26.459 that they could sit down literally. 00:33:26.459 --> 00:33:29.869 And if not talk to them, they could listen to them talk on a podcast. 00:33:29.879 --> 00:33:34.389 So, uh, it can be a great boon for your corporate culture. 00:33:34.409 --> 00:33:38.479 If your leaders talk about themselves, 00:33:39.964 --> 00:33:40.184 VictoriaM: Love it. 00:33:40.184 --> 00:33:40.474 Love it. 00:33:40.804 --> 00:33:41.884 Tom, this has been fun. 00:33:42.214 --> 00:33:47.474 Um, where can people find you and your podcasts and your podcast network? 00:33:48.659 --> 00:33:50.699 Tom Fox: They can find the Podcast Network at www. 00:33:50.779 --> 00:33:52.219 compliancepodcastnetwork. 00:33:52.789 --> 00:33:53.129 net. 00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:56.119 Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn at Thomas R. 00:33:56.119 --> 00:33:56.709 Fox. 00:33:57.319 --> 00:33:59.849 You can email me at tfoxx at tfoxxlaw. 00:33:59.859 --> 00:34:03.539 com or you can call me at 832 744 0264. 00:34:03.889 --> 00:34:07.939 If you've thought about having a podcast, um, I'd love to talk to you. 00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:10.919 Or if you just want to chit chat, I'd love to talk to you. 00:34:11.364 --> 00:34:11.724 VictoriaM: Awesome. 00:34:11.824 --> 00:34:12.204 Love it. 00:34:12.324 --> 00:34:13.344 Tom, thank you so much. 00:34:13.344 --> 00:34:15.844 And thank you everyone today for joining us. 00:34:15.894 --> 00:34:18.614 Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we'll 00:34:18.614 --> 00:34:19.964 talk with you again soon.