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Welcome to Digication
Scholars Conversations.

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I'm your host, Jeff Yan.

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In this episode, you will hear Part One
of my conversation with Tonya Hendrix,

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Demetri Kapetanakos, and Dionne Miller
from LaGuardia Community College.

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More links and information about today's
conversation can be found on Digication's

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Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.

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Full episodes of Digication Scholars
Conversations can be found on

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YouTube or your favorite podcast app.

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Welcome to DigiCation
Scholars Conversations.

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I'm your host, Jeff Yan.

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My guests today are Tonya Hendrix,
Demetri  Kapetanakos, and Dionne Miller

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from LaGuardia Community College.

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They are authors of a paper
recently published at the

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International Journal of ePortfolio.

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The title of this paper is Creating
an Integrative Student's Liberal Arts

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Identity, a reflection on the process
of building an ePortfolio for a

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community college Liberal Arts program.

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Welcome, everyone.

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And, uh, I want to say, first of
all, I've always been a huge fan and

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admirer of LaGuardia community college.

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It is just, it's been a, uh, an
honor and a pleasure to have been

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able to work alongside folks at
LaGuardia throughout the years.

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And, uh, I think we've had now something
like a 15 year long relationship.

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Um, and it's, it's just one
of the highlights of my life.

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It's literally, is it's now a. A big
portion of my life and, and it's one that

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has been so, um, I'm, I'm continuously
inspired and impressed by all that you do.

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And, and the thing about
it is it doesn't stop.

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It was amazing in the
beginning of that journey.

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It is still amazing 15 years later.

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And today we have three really
just amazing educators here.

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Um, so I wanted to just.

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Um, maybe go around really quickly,
ask you, what do you do at LaGuardia?

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Really quickly.

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Tell us that maybe starting with Tonya.

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Hi everybody.

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Um, I currently teach First Year Seminar
classes and Biology classes at LaGuardia.

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Great.

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And Dionne.

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I am an associate dean for academic
affairs and I serve among other

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things as the program director
for the Liberal Arts major.

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Awesome.

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And Demetri.

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So, um, I teach first year seminar, I
teach English classes, and I'm actually

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really, really excited because I'm
actually teaching Classical Lit in

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Homer for the first time to my students,
so Sounds fun, and uh And nerdy!

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Jeff and I'm sure that I'm
sure that there you find race.

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Well, just having interacted with
you a little bit, I'm sure you find

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really good ways to engage with
them, which is a lot of what we're

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going to be talking about today.

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Um, I, I am so, so impressed
by the paper that you wrote.

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And I, I remember I w I read it and, and.

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It actually co... coincides with a
lot of how I've been feeling a lot

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about, and it really starts with.

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Actually, there is a somewhat of a decline
confidence in higher education today in

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the higher education landscape, not only
I'm not talking specifically for, you

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know, any kinds of like colleges or, you
know, regions or the, you know, or, um,

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you know, uh, but, but more in general,
there has been a decline in confidence

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in higher education, um, because of a
sort of a drop in belief that the value

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of a degree, what it means, and I think
that in your paper it really, you know,

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you had said that it, it had literally
gone from something like 74 percent to

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41%, you know, based on a study and,
and that's, that's alarming to me.

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Right.

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It's alarming to me, by the way, not only,
you know, I don't believe that we should

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just blindly think that higher education
is, and that the degree is good for you,

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but we should realize that if it went from
74 percent to 41%, what changed and what,

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what could make that be the case, right?

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So Dionne, maybe I want to ask you first,
as an Associate Dean, you are someone

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who, who would be looking at these things.

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Both you're thinking about, you know, from
a student standpoint, the well being and

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all of that, but you're also looking at
the bigger picture of where we're going

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as a college, you know, in your program.

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So tell me a little bit about what
you think, what you think when you,

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when you discover these numbers.

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It's very alarming, Jeff.

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I agree.

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I believe in the purpose of education,
just as not only for the individual,

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but also for society at large.

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You know, I think apart from giving
our students skills so that they

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can, um, make progress economically.

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That's important.

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But we're also giving our students
skills to make them good citizens.

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And when we don't have students in our
classroom, we don't have a chance to give

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them the tools to really allow them to
fully participate in their society and to

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improve, you know, our role as a species.

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overall, um, in the world.

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So that really alarms me because, you
know, I think just knowledge is such a

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basic fundamental right and something that
all of us should be striving to attain, no

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matter what it is that we do in the world.

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Yeah.

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And Demetri, what does Homer say?

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Oh, I don't know.

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I mean,

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I was actually reading the Iliad yesterday
and it's really, One of the things that I

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feel is missing and being at LaGuardia and
working both with people like Dionne and

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Tonya is thinking about how could we be
reflexive about why all of this matters.

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You know, why does the
liberal arts matters?

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Why do these different
ideas swirling around?

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Why does this possibly blind poet
from 8th century Greece still matter?

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And they all do.

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And I feel that one of the things
is that we live in a society right

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now where this idea of reflection is
missing and we really need to think

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about how could we bring that back,
not only to social media, not only

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into the way we read people, but also.

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That the value of an education
is about helping you all do that.

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And Tonya, do you see the same
thing in your, your classes as well?

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Absolutely.

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Um, I think about students and their
ability to, to do critical thinking.

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Um, when I teach the scientific
method, I teach it as evidence

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based critical thinking because
it is, and it's a necessary skill.

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Um, so when I think about our students or.

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Anybody that I love and care for, what
I want you to be able to do is take the

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facts and make them mean something and
not have somebody else do that for you.

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So I'm afraid that, you know, I
don't really like to talk about

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politics really, but there's this
idea that an educated populace.

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It's not good for somebody.

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It's obviously good for us as
citizens, but who is it not good for?

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And that's something, um, that we
should consider for our students

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and help our students to consider.

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And, and by the way, um, I want
to, I want to point out something

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that I think it's a myth.

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I think it's people.

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I think people, um, sort of puts
this identity onto folks who are in

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the sciences in STEM to think that
these are people who only likes

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to deal with the black and whites.

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They do not value reflection.

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They think it's too soft.

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They think it's too touchy feely.

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It is a hundred percent untrue.

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We have someone on the panel right
now who teaches in biology and

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then another teaches Homer, right?

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And that both of them are talking about
the value of reflection and value of

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what it means to be a productive citizen.

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And these are the kinds of things that
to me, I want to go back to Dionne.

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You, you very just succinctly had
said right away, we need these

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people to become productive citizens.

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We want them to have a sense of
fulfillment and passion in life, right?

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To enjoy themselves.

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And you don't get to be able to do that.

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If all you care about are sort of skills
that learnable skills that are, you

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know, from, um, uh, that, that, that,
that seems to satisfy the short term

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satisfaction of maybe a job requirement,
but that doesn't bring you very far

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because that job is going to change.

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That job is going to
get evolved over time.

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Those skills gonna be
outdated very quickly, right?

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Many of those skills
are not durable skills.

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They are ephemeral.

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They are, they're hype.

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Half lives are short these days,
especially when we encounter AI, right?

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Like, like that's going to,
that's going to... AI is.

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However, we, we look at it, you
know, we like it, we don't like it.

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We, we, we, we think
of it as an assistant.

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We think of it as a collaborator, et
cetera, et cetera, all the different

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metaphors, but what, what is I think
pretty easily identifiable is that it is.

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Extremely studious.

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So things that has been published in
the world, things that it has his hands

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on, it reads and it consumes everything.

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So those kind of first level, I like
to think of it as almost like the

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first level learning, which is just,
here's some, I hear some, here's

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some content, read it, remember it.

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And that's it, that AI is going to be
really good at doing, but what I thought

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was really amazing with Tonya, when you
said, well, you need to make that your

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own, you have to think through that.

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That's where the critical
thinking comes in, right?

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So this is where you process
that experience of, Hey!

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I experienced some fact.

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And if you can experience it even better
is even better than reading about it, then

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the process of doing that, like dealing
with the experience seems to really

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be the building block of the critical
thinking and, and, and the purpose and

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all of that, that you would talk about.

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I, I, I got so much out of your paper and
I wanted to then say, um, now I, I, and

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I, I sometimes find that at LaGuardia.

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Um, I'm always amazed by how
incredibly diverse your demographic is.

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Um, you, and, and that might,
to me, it sometimes feel like

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as people that work there, you
must have almost like no choice.

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Even if you wanted to, but to embrace that
diversity, and then you can really use it.

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And I actually do think that it
is a special, um, scenario where

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actually there are a lot of colleges
don't have, and therefore they don't

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truly understand what that means.

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So maybe one of you can tell us a little
bit about like, what does it mean by like,

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you know, dive in a diverse demographic.

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Um, I, I remember, I will just use one
thing that I remember hearing about.

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I think LaGuardia, there are something
like over 150 languages spoken

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amongst your population, right?

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That's incredible.

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That, that's really swell.

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Suddenly it puts you into a perspective
that says, Oh man, I don't even know.

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How to name 150 languages.

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Um, and, and that there are that many
just within the, you know, on campus.

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And so why don't you tell us a
little bit about, you know, sort of

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where LaGuardia is right now on the
demographic, just, you know, ballpark.

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I'd like to say what's fantastic
about being in such a diverse

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place is that you begin to
understand that you don't have to.

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Understand diversity in order
to appreciate diversity.

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So, of course, right?

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I can't speak 150 languages,
but I can appreciate that my

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students speak multiple languages.

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And sometimes in the classroom is really
helpful for students that share the

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same first language to have an in class
conversation, because in your second

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languages, in your second language,
some things just don't come across.

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And so just appreciating the
diversity is such a big thing.

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And, you know, we talk
about our global society.

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LaGuardia is like a microcosm
of a global society.

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So every day our students are learning
and experiencing what it is to work with

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people who may be with be like you or
who are not like you or what I think

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is even more important that someone
that you think is different from you,

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you'll see how they are similar to you.

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So I, the diversity is
such a huge boon for us.

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Right.

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It makes our classrooms
really, really interesting.

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And it's a, it's a boon for our students.

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I love it.

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And it's not all just about, you know,
like, you know, dominated by racial

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diversity, it's everything else too.

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Right.

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I read that something like a third
of your students are not born,

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were not born in the United States.

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Right.

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Like, that's really so interesting.

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I wasn't born in the
United States by the way.

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Um, and and, and I think that there
is so much, it's, it makes the

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world so interesting when you see
different perspectives, it allows

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you to question your own perspectives
because you see other people's, right?

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I think it's interesting
that a third of this team.

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Wasn't born in the United States.

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That's pretty, that's
pretty, that's pretty astute.

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So, so your, your faculty body also
reflect on this, over the students

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too, which is another part of, you
know, being to be diverse like that.

228
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It's, you know, I, I think
there's, there's this weird,

229
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well, I, I, I think it's weird.

230
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I think many of my, our audience
agree with us that is weird, but I

231
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:22,559
think that there is in the, in, in, in
much of the sort of mainstream media

232
00:15:22,630 --> 00:15:30,459
today, that is, there has been a sort
of, you know, push back on diversity,

233
00:15:30,460 --> 00:15:36,030
you know, like, Uh, big companies
closing up their DEI initiatives.

234
00:15:36,729 --> 00:15:41,349
They are, um, you know, there are of
course, as educators, we know that in,

235
00:15:41,650 --> 00:15:48,099
in a good number of States, DEI has been
attacked and, but I also sometimes find

236
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that, you know, I think there's some...
sometimes, sometimes the, the programs

237
00:15:54,660 --> 00:15:59,659
that are doing that weren't doing the
real DEI like weren't really, weren't

238
00:15:59,700 --> 00:16:03,249
really understanding what it meant, like
the way that you had talked about, right?

239
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,189
You walked into a room with all these
people having different perspectives.

240
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,449
You have almost no choice
but to appreciate it.

241
00:16:10,459 --> 00:16:14,459
And once you do, you see all of the
good things that comes out of it, right?

242
00:16:14,459 --> 00:16:16,189
It wasn't just something where you go.

243
00:16:16,490 --> 00:16:19,350
I'm trying to satisfy
some kind of quota, right?

244
00:16:19,410 --> 00:16:21,200
That doesn't happen at LaGuardia.

245
00:16:22,010 --> 00:16:27,870
But, but can I also say that one of the
losses I think of also not thinking about

246
00:16:28,349 --> 00:16:34,599
is how do these perspectives enhance the
student's ability to be in the world?

247
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:41,480
So, you know, they are navigating
multiple languages in many times, multiple

248
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,100
experiences, and this is a superpower.

249
00:16:45,870 --> 00:16:50,030
And I think that even though a lot of
our students don't necessarily have,

250
00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:53,490
for example, that sort of traditional
education, which is about going abroad

251
00:16:53,490 --> 00:16:56,370
and experiencing it, they're already made.

252
00:16:56,379 --> 00:16:58,840
They already have those
skills ready to go.

253
00:16:59,449 --> 00:17:05,010
And I think the question becomes, you
know, how do we harness them in a way?

254
00:17:05,369 --> 00:17:11,740
That actually gets them out in the world
and really comes from those experiences,

255
00:17:11,780 --> 00:17:15,199
even if though they're coming from
community college, they're not coming

256
00:17:15,199 --> 00:17:16,920
from prestigious four year college.

257
00:17:17,199 --> 00:17:21,319
And yet, in many ways, they're even
more prepared, I think, for the

258
00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:23,289
world out there and to conquer it.

259
00:17:23,815 --> 00:17:27,045
than many of the students that come
out from these Ivy League schools.

260
00:17:28,535 --> 00:17:32,774
So, I want to emphasize that too, that
it's also about, you know, I mean, I

261
00:17:32,774 --> 00:17:40,035
think that's one of our major, major, I
think, you know, resources, and powers

262
00:17:40,054 --> 00:17:43,874
Yeah, it is, I think, I agree, yeah.

263
00:17:44,014 --> 00:17:44,595
Go ahead.

264
00:17:45,945 --> 00:17:49,685
I would, you know, I would also
like to add that that's how I see

265
00:17:49,685 --> 00:17:51,655
our Liberal Arts program as well.

266
00:17:51,945 --> 00:17:58,124
That Liberal Arts is a diverse field
in that it exposes students to many

267
00:17:58,135 --> 00:18:02,075
different disciplines, academic
disciplines, and that's you know, an

268
00:18:02,105 --> 00:18:06,695
academic diversity that we offer to
our students that they can experience

269
00:18:06,705 --> 00:18:11,735
all these different ways of knowing the
world through science, through sociology,

270
00:18:11,745 --> 00:18:19,409
anthropology, history, literature, and
how that also really prepares them to,

271
00:18:19,949 --> 00:18:25,600
to be excellent professionals in whatever
field that they, um, they aspire to.

272
00:18:25,790 --> 00:18:29,590
And, and this is why I believe in
the liberal arts, that really it

273
00:18:29,590 --> 00:18:34,679
helps students to really appreciate
the breadth of human knowledge.

274
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:39,810
You know, I always say I want students
to be Order by the knowledge that

275
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:43,370
exists in the world and how they
can participate in even gaining

276
00:18:43,370 --> 00:18:45,159
a little bit of that knowledge.

277
00:18:45,399 --> 00:18:49,199
And we in the liberal arts do that
in ways that many other really

278
00:18:49,199 --> 00:18:51,510
focused disciplinary pathways can't.

279
00:18:53,310 --> 00:18:56,489
And I, I want, I want to, let's
talk about that for a little bit.

280
00:18:56,810 --> 00:19:00,080
Um, I, I have, um,

281
00:19:02,250 --> 00:19:10,620
you know, I, I feel like that for some odd
reasons, our society has recently been.

282
00:19:11,075 --> 00:19:15,295
Well, in the recent years, probably,
you know, for, for, for, for, it's

283
00:19:15,295 --> 00:19:19,264
been the trend now for a little
while, maybe even since arguably

284
00:19:19,264 --> 00:19:28,065
the industrial age that, that, that
liberal arts is sort of, you know.

285
00:19:28,465 --> 00:19:31,475
Like it's softer, you're not
going to get this, the, the,

286
00:19:31,495 --> 00:19:33,545
the hard skills to get that job.

287
00:19:33,555 --> 00:19:38,514
You can't be the lawyer or the
doctor, um, or the engineer

288
00:19:38,524 --> 00:19:40,564
if you are doing liberal arts.

289
00:19:40,965 --> 00:19:48,545
Um, but I think the people actually
forget that, um, almost all the

290
00:19:48,554 --> 00:19:52,815
people that are the most probably
possibly many of the most powerful,

291
00:19:52,815 --> 00:19:55,085
you know, organizations, companies.

292
00:19:55,860 --> 00:20:00,050
Industry, they're actually run
by people that actually really

293
00:20:00,050 --> 00:20:04,170
just have those critical thinking
skills and problem solving skills.

294
00:20:04,549 --> 00:20:09,819
Oftentimes they are not practicing that
one, you know, special disciplines.

295
00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:14,949
Um, and, and for people to, to actually
sort of, you know, look down on Liberal

296
00:20:14,959 --> 00:20:16,610
Arts, I think it's really weird.

297
00:20:17,070 --> 00:20:20,760
Um, I, not only do I think that
it's weird for that reason, we also

298
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,770
have had in our history, you know,
if we go back to the Renaissance.

299
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:25,460
Right?

300
00:20:25,490 --> 00:20:30,680
Renaissance was about like, you know,
you know, people like Leonardo da

301
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,690
Vinci, who, who, who knows everything,
who's interested in it, who is

302
00:20:34,690 --> 00:20:38,739
curious in the world, you know, who
wants to think about flying machines

303
00:20:38,740 --> 00:20:41,680
as he's about paintings, um, right.

304
00:20:41,690 --> 00:20:45,710
Who likes to value all these
things and make curiosity a

305
00:20:46,170 --> 00:20:47,810
huge part of purpose in life.

306
00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:52,640
And yet when it comes to sort of.

307
00:20:54,190 --> 00:20:59,800
You know, sort of modern education, we
seem to have, when I say industrial,

308
00:20:59,820 --> 00:21:04,550
the industrial age, it seems to be
almost like a very industrialized

309
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:10,989
factory like thinking in our, in our
mental mindset, which is, well, how do

310
00:21:10,989 --> 00:21:15,350
we specialize in some things to make it
maybe more efficient to get you a little

311
00:21:15,590 --> 00:21:17,600
further and deeper into that field.

312
00:21:18,410 --> 00:21:20,210
Now, I, I think that that has.

313
00:21:20,705 --> 00:21:24,655
In a weird way worked as
a narrative for a while.

314
00:21:25,205 --> 00:21:30,145
Um, but, but in reality, it doesn't
actually really work when we map out

315
00:21:30,395 --> 00:21:32,014
all the people that run our world.

316
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,810
And I'm not even talking about just,
you know, people who are CEOs of

317
00:21:35,820 --> 00:21:37,440
big companies or whatever, right?

318
00:21:37,690 --> 00:21:40,550
Because you don't just
major to be a CEO actually.

319
00:21:40,940 --> 00:21:47,610
Um, um, but I'm also talking about,
you know, all the people that do

320
00:21:47,749 --> 00:21:50,750
communication, marketing, journalism.

321
00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:56,255
So you forget that there is this
whole swathe of people outside of

322
00:21:56,295 --> 00:22:00,435
actually about half a dozen really
sort of prominent, like fields

323
00:22:00,445 --> 00:22:02,005
that are, that, that have the name.

324
00:22:02,005 --> 00:22:04,345
And I'm, by the way, not saying
that they're not good, like,

325
00:22:04,615 --> 00:22:08,254
please, if you're passionate
about being adopted, do it right.

326
00:22:08,435 --> 00:22:13,155
But actually our world is also run by
all these other people that do incredible

327
00:22:13,165 --> 00:22:15,345
things that, that gives purpose.

328
00:22:15,780 --> 00:22:16,110
Right?

329
00:22:16,449 --> 00:22:22,409
And so somehow we sort of almost
put all the narrative around, you

330
00:22:22,409 --> 00:22:27,800
know, a few fields that have a good
story, but then the rest of it, we've

331
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:32,919
sort of almost like ignored, um,
as if they, they weren't of value.

332
00:22:33,989 --> 00:22:38,689
I think, I think what's
interesting is when.

333
00:22:39,330 --> 00:22:45,150
And there have been many studies that
show this when an employer is asked,

334
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,000
what do you want from your employees?

335
00:22:48,609 --> 00:22:50,739
They want them to read well.

336
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:52,750
They want them to write well.

337
00:22:52,869 --> 00:22:54,610
They want them to speak well.

338
00:22:55,389 --> 00:22:59,560
They want their employees to
have critical thinking skills.

339
00:23:00,250 --> 00:23:01,340
That's the liberal arts.

340
00:23:03,405 --> 00:23:04,485
That's the liberal art.

341
00:23:04,535 --> 00:23:10,524
And if someone can do those things, well,
then they can add additional skills.

342
00:23:12,185 --> 00:23:13,075
They do it better.

343
00:23:13,095 --> 00:23:14,315
They go further, don't they?

344
00:23:14,564 --> 00:23:14,814
Yes.

345
00:23:15,024 --> 00:23:19,295
So when you think about your biology
students, if they do become, you know,

346
00:23:19,295 --> 00:23:23,945
going into the medical path or they want
to go, you know, into the research area.

347
00:23:24,435 --> 00:23:29,105
Really, the building block doesn't
come from just learning biology.

348
00:23:29,195 --> 00:23:33,595
It comes from the Liberal Arts to make
them better thinkers, better learners,

349
00:23:33,785 --> 00:23:34,905
and then they go further there.

350
00:23:35,084 --> 00:23:39,715
And by the way, I also think that there's
one more thing too, that there's almost

351
00:23:39,715 --> 00:23:44,645
like this, you just need some Liberal
Arts in order to do something else.

352
00:23:45,625 --> 00:23:52,135
I think liberal arts itself can be a
pretty good end point to, um, you know,

353
00:23:52,135 --> 00:23:57,845
there is nothing wrong about being like
a really good general critical thinker

354
00:23:58,114 --> 00:24:02,285
who can think for yourself, who can
learn really well and go into the world.

355
00:24:02,545 --> 00:24:06,925
And I would even argue, don't you
think that, and I know that this

356
00:24:06,925 --> 00:24:11,515
sounds like science fiction, but to
me, you know, in the next few years,

357
00:24:11,555 --> 00:24:14,545
as AI becomes better and better as.

358
00:24:15,700 --> 00:24:21,210
You know, there's going to become
a point where some of our graduates

359
00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:25,690
not from the Liberal Arts program,
actually Liberal Arts is the one

360
00:24:25,690 --> 00:24:27,460
that's really hard to replace.

361
00:24:27,850 --> 00:24:33,949
But, some of our graduates coming
from programs where it's heavy skill

362
00:24:33,949 --> 00:24:39,459
base or is very like many layers of
skills, many, many, a lot of content,

363
00:24:39,459 --> 00:24:44,980
the content heavy, you know, sort of
majors, actually a lot of that content.

364
00:24:45,295 --> 00:24:50,705
AI is going to be really good at doing,
in fact, I would go as far as arguing

365
00:24:50,705 --> 00:24:58,695
that it almost is going to be hard,
if not impossible for our graduates

366
00:24:58,964 --> 00:25:05,235
to be as good as the AI would be at,
at, at just knowing that knowledge

367
00:25:05,274 --> 00:25:07,575
and knowing that content, right?

368
00:25:08,875 --> 00:25:10,285
So, so you're right.

369
00:25:10,645 --> 00:25:11,585
Oh, I'm sorry.

370
00:25:12,125 --> 00:25:14,755
I like to talk, but you're right in that.

371
00:25:15,745 --> 00:25:16,175
What.

372
00:25:17,210 --> 00:25:24,710
The encyclopedic knowledge, right,
that we used to call smart has been

373
00:25:24,710 --> 00:25:27,759
completely taken over by computers.

374
00:25:28,030 --> 00:25:34,209
However, critical thinking cannot
be taken over by computers.

375
00:25:35,099 --> 00:25:36,670
And so I love that.

376
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:37,540
I love that.

377
00:25:37,550 --> 00:25:39,510
I have a little theory on this, Tonya.

378
00:25:39,530 --> 00:25:40,620
I want to see what you think about it.

379
00:25:41,885 --> 00:25:47,595
I really think that the way that we do
this, you know, the critical thinking,

380
00:25:48,415 --> 00:25:52,455
you know, from a, you know, if you think
about it from a cognitive neuroscience

381
00:25:52,494 --> 00:25:56,704
standpoint is all of these nodes of,
you know, sort of experiences that

382
00:25:56,704 --> 00:25:59,815
we have and we learn to process them.

383
00:25:59,825 --> 00:26:04,355
When we process them, we create
links between these, you know, so

384
00:26:04,395 --> 00:26:07,615
that's where the neural network
comes in, into our brains, right?

385
00:26:07,815 --> 00:26:11,475
That's, that's, That's, that's, that's
really how, you know, our brains work

386
00:26:11,725 --> 00:26:16,835
now that those pathways are very complex
and they overlap and they go from,

387
00:26:17,115 --> 00:26:20,665
you know, really simple, instinctive
things to really difficult stuff.

388
00:26:20,995 --> 00:26:21,335
Right.

389
00:26:21,505 --> 00:26:25,745
And, and the way that we get
better at learning and critical

390
00:26:25,764 --> 00:26:30,744
thinking is through that processing
of experience, which by the way.

391
00:26:31,044 --> 00:26:33,405
Demetri, you talked about a
bunch of times reflection,

392
00:26:33,415 --> 00:26:35,305
that's really what it is, right?

393
00:26:35,665 --> 00:26:40,474
So we develop these ways to build
these neural networks and we, each

394
00:26:40,474 --> 00:26:46,255
of us have our own stack of neural
networks built through our experiences.

395
00:26:46,674 --> 00:26:48,954
There is currently no way.

396
00:26:50,020 --> 00:26:55,129
At least not yet that a machine and reach
into our brain and build that for us.

397
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:55,949
Right.

398
00:26:56,100 --> 00:27:01,769
What it can do is to give us a lot of
those nodes of like experiences and maybe

399
00:27:01,980 --> 00:27:06,540
like give you like, Hey, an encounter of,
Hey, this is a recording of what happened.

400
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,490
This is something that
someone wrote Demetri, right.

401
00:27:09,530 --> 00:27:13,679
Back in, you know, like, uh, uh,
over, uh, you know, like almost

402
00:27:13,679 --> 00:27:16,440
2000, like over 2000 years ago.

403
00:27:16,690 --> 00:27:16,949
Right.

404
00:27:17,650 --> 00:27:20,520
But you still have to process it.

405
00:27:21,149 --> 00:27:24,490
And it's that processor that
we're having our students build.

406
00:27:24,689 --> 00:27:28,250
I really think that that's what
liberal arts does is that it,

407
00:27:28,509 --> 00:27:30,770
it makes us better processors.

408
00:27:30,949 --> 00:27:36,480
But I also think that it also, that's
the requirement for us to become

409
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,960
better pedagogues and teachers, right?

410
00:27:39,390 --> 00:27:43,890
I mean, I see our role, not
necessarily only just sort of moving

411
00:27:43,890 --> 00:27:48,360
forward with knowledge building,
but also asking the right questions.

412
00:27:48,639 --> 00:27:53,250
for the students to make the connections,
and AI could never replace that.

413
00:27:53,790 --> 00:27:57,030
And I think one of the things that
I want to sort of just track back,

414
00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:02,860
um, Jeff, about what you were saying
before is that I think for so long, the

415
00:28:02,860 --> 00:28:07,240
liberal arts has also been, I think,
the domain of the privileged, right?

416
00:28:07,539 --> 00:28:12,710
Because when you're talking about what
What are our student incomes, right?

417
00:28:12,710 --> 00:28:14,020
And they're looking for the job.

418
00:28:14,030 --> 00:28:19,239
They're looking for that career or that
thing that will bring in the money,

419
00:28:19,570 --> 00:28:21,719
and yet they're not looking beyond.

420
00:28:21,749 --> 00:28:26,840
And I think one of the things that has
been so important, I think, both, um,

421
00:28:26,889 --> 00:28:30,590
under sort of Gail Mello, our former
president, and under the leadership

422
00:28:30,649 --> 00:28:35,720
of Dionne, too, who has really sort
of shaped the liberal arts department,

423
00:28:36,179 --> 00:28:38,250
it really has been about access.

424
00:28:38,725 --> 00:28:42,895
To those possibilities, which I
think is really, really important.

425
00:28:42,925 --> 00:28:47,555
And that's, I think, one of the
things that I think makes LaGuardia

426
00:28:47,555 --> 00:28:53,975
so great that we are not a work for
a workforce development institution,

427
00:28:54,504 --> 00:28:58,705
but we are one where there are
multiple options and multiple paths

428
00:28:59,165 --> 00:29:05,215
that could lead to many different
possibilities and the liberal arts.

429
00:29:05,385 --> 00:29:13,445
And I think Pedagogy or a form of
teaching that actually is rooted in

430
00:29:13,445 --> 00:29:16,205
reflection allows that to happen.

431
00:29:17,514 --> 00:29:21,844
And that's really where social
mobility is possible, right?

432
00:29:22,004 --> 00:29:26,054
So the idea that, you know,
you grew up in a home where you

433
00:29:26,055 --> 00:29:27,785
don't have a lot of resources.

434
00:29:28,085 --> 00:29:34,370
If you are continuously Thinking in those
terms and thinking that your only path

435
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:39,899
is to quickly get a job, right, that
can, that can, and you can skip over all

436
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:44,579
of the, the, you know, the, the other
pieces, it, it makes it possible for

437
00:29:44,579 --> 00:29:49,975
you to just keep continuing that cycle
where you can get out of a certain level

438
00:29:50,235 --> 00:29:54,625
of, you know, it's almost like that half
of the world is not accessible to you.

439
00:29:55,245 --> 00:29:55,815
Right.

440
00:29:55,875 --> 00:29:59,385
Whereas the other half who realize
that actually, no, that's where all the

441
00:29:59,385 --> 00:30:02,184
thinking and enjoyment comes from, right.

442
00:30:02,195 --> 00:30:08,135
They're doing that because you got,
you almost got to believe that, well,

443
00:30:08,135 --> 00:30:12,565
that's not for me because how, how am
I going to get a job, you know, like

444
00:30:12,575 --> 00:30:15,585
learning about thinking for myself,
I just need to be able to do this.

445
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:21,500
Skill that can like quickly, like
translate to a paycheck, except

446
00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:23,230
that that's not even really true.

447
00:30:23,390 --> 00:30:28,239
While, while it is possible to translate
that into a paycheck, so can, so can all

448
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:29,809
the things that you do in liberal arts.

449
00:30:30,019 --> 00:30:35,059
It's maybe slightly less obvious,
but it's only slightly less obvious.

450
00:30:35,059 --> 00:30:36,550
I think you can prove it quickly.

451
00:30:37,390 --> 00:30:41,320
Here's a preview of what's coming up
next in part two of my conversation with

452
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,070
Tonya Hendrix, Demetri Karpathianakos.

453
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,630
And Dionne Miller from
LaGuardia Community College.

454
00:30:48,870 --> 00:30:52,620
So, and I think it's taken
students beyond, this is the

455
00:30:52,620 --> 00:30:57,000
liberal arts, this is what I'm
learning, to I am the liberal arts.

456
00:30:57,479 --> 00:30:59,070
The liberal arts matters to me.

457
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,460
It's integral to who I am.