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Oh, welcome back.

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We're at uh the Warrior Saint podcast.

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And today, uh I, Harinam Singkalsa, I have the great honor and privilege of uh bringing
into Warrior Saint a very good friend of mine, Sadanan Singkalsa from Santiago, Chile.

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It's for his first time here on the podcast, and uh he's a very funny guy, very bilingual,
and we'll do this one in English with his

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Kind participation.

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And I guess the first thing is to just welcome you aboard, buddy.

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Thanks, thanks for coming on board uh the spaceship.

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Thank you very much.

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Thank you very much, you for the invitation.

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I'm glad to be here.

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I'm honored to be here.

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So I hope we have a great time together.

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Well

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Now, obviously you're a few years younger than me, but I I think we must of

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We must have met about twenty years ago, right?

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Kind of, yes, 16, 17 years if at least.

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And and you're still a young man, and I'm not.

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Not that young.

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You know you know that this series is kind of organic and I we've talked about it, I
invite on

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People I consider to be interesting, visionary people, people who are both involved in
doing something that I consider to be cutting edge in society.

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And also, you know, me knowing in some way what they're doing in the world is um somehow
dovetails is congruent with the title of this podcast being Warrior Saint.

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Um essentially in some way being in the world as an example of somebody who's both uh a
saintly person, very kind loving person, but uh also exhibiting

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you know, superhuman strength and putting all that together.

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So uh almost all the conversations I have with people, uh eventually, even though the
conversation is organic, it kind of naturally finds its way to that theme.

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And I'm hoping to somehow uh touch people with the um the value of living a life of both
strength and grace and uh

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You're doing like a lot of that in your own life.

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Um I I actually uh you know that these conversations are usually organ, very organic and
find their own ground.

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And we kind of have the mutual understanding that.

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This would happen in this conversation too, but I I have to admit that there's something
in particular I wanted you to share with this uh listening audience with your permission.

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Uh so it's not totally organic because I I I I admit to having an agenda.

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So for the people in our audience who don't know, you are a well-known uh psychologist in
Chile.

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You've been doing that for a long time.

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I have no doubt that somehow you've integrated your spiritual practice from the last 20
years to the way that you interact with people helping them overcome their

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Challenges in their life.

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And then I guess it was a few months ago, you were telling me that uh later in the year
that you were yourself intending to do an online course on uh I guess the whole concept of

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fear and overcoming fear.

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You had actually asked me to be a guest on.

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one of those uh classes.

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And of course, um this is central to what we're doing in this podcast.

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So I have an agenda for inviting inviting you on is that um and we we've talked about this
subject, but of course uh you know it's been my contention, rightly or wrongly, that the

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spiritual path we're both on, uh this

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Khalsa-oriented path that was given to us by great figure in history, Gudugobin Singh from
300 years ago, like any other spiritual path, is is designed to aid people to achieve

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liberation in this lifetime and help others achieve liberation in this lifetime.

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And it's always been my contention that the the experience that one would have.

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By checking all the boxes on this path is actually the experience of liberation is the
experience of fearlessness.

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That in the absence of fear, people will experience the heights of what we've been
practicing.

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So, of course, when you said you were going to do this uh series for people.

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I mys I I was very interested in participating and I was also really thrilled to hear that
uh you were going to uh take that leap and help people in this way, which I I think is

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invaluable.

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So I I'm just excited to hear about this series you're gonna do and you could share it
with our audience here.

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But also uh I just really wanna give you a platform to

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Talk uh and share with us whatever you uh have to uh share about this uh huge subject.

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Because I'm I'm also interested in hearing where you're coming from because I want to see
what I'm getting myself into here.

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I want to see that we're on the same page here, right?

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Maybe I'm making a big mistake.

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But uh I'm just getting validation here.

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So just uh just share with us what you'd like to share about this incredible.

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uh this credible concept of of the place that fear has in people's lives and our
relationship to it and how we can use that challenge to uh transform ourselves.

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right, right.

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Okay, I think you did a great decision by stepping into this course.

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I have met you, yes, around 20 years ago.

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I'm sure we share the point of view in general, at least.

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Because Yugi Payan taught this series of classes on fears.

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So he will target in 22 classes

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every dimension of human fear, ah kind uh of fear that a human being can have.

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So from fear to love and fear to die or fear of being or fear of tomorrow or fear of your
own wounds or fear to your feelings or to your fear to pain, everything.

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ultimately,

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I think there are two concepts that are very important that go even beyond the concept of
overcoming these specific fears.

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One of that is that path of liberation is about getting rid of fear, actually.

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ah So it's always said in a spiritual teachings that fear of death is actually what keep
us in the cycle.

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of coming and going, the rebuilding reincarnation.

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So actually it's not the fear of the actual death, physical death.

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There is a lot of people that doesn't have that fear, but it's the fear of a stop
existing, which is different.

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It's a shift from the concept because...

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um

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you're you're talking about I'm just trying to find common terminology here because I talk
about this too, but uh I use the word um annihilation.

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Yeah.

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It's a good word for that.

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Absolutely.

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Yes.

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a annihilation, and I think that's what you're referring to.

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that's fair.

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I think it's very accurate way to say it, to name it.

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And

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Yeah, by the way, can I can I like I do this, I know I'm very rude and I interrupt people,
it's part of my personality.

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But I have a second thing to say about it.

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Let's not forget it because it's important.

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Yeah.

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And I don't think I'm interrupting you by by by saying what I'm gonna say because I think
in this kind of uh conversation it'll come up a lot.

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And that is um and I think you've had experience with this yourself, is that one of the
difficulties in counseling people and in teaching people or living your own life day to

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day is that there is so much

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Misuse and misunderstanding of words.

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And people talk assuming the other person's going to understand, but there really rarely
is understanding because there's certain words, especially certain hot words, that have

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different connotations in different people's minds.

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And you know, you have a background in psychology, I do also, but I also have a background
in law.

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And so I'm very careful about this.

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And so when you were bringing up uh talking about death, is that that's like a word that
means different things to different people.

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And it's got to the point that it has kind of a lot of negative and scary connotations
that almost render the word useless at this point.

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because uh there's differences of opinion even what the word really means.

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And so I find myself trying to find a word that there can't be any misunderstandings
about.

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So I was glad when you started talking about what I think of as annihilation.

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And there's not a lot of good words that equal that.

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It's a very absolute word that uh I find

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And actually liberation itself I I find myself using a lot because there's some kind of
common understanding what that would mean.

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So uh anyhow, that's I just wanted to interject that because talking to somebody like you,
I know that you're also a person like myself who's very careful with their words.

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Yes, yes and.

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Well, yes, so the second thing but it is related it is absolutely related one thing is

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being, having courage, but another thing is being fearless, which is different.

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So we are talking to the same thing you are saying that, precision of the words, it is not
the same.

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So the course itself, yeah, yes.

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Because the course is every, every session is about one different fear.

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And I think four of them are not exactly fears, but

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things, um virtues or capacities you need to have to overcome fear.

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But uh we are talking about the specific fears, then you have to have courage to overcome
them.

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That is true.

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And having courage is a great, great spiritual value.

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um You have to face basically you're not facing something outside, you're facing your
fear.

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And then you have courage and you're coming.

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So

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that is super high thing to do, but it's not the ultimate thing to do, right?

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The ultimate thing to do is that you're fearless.

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So you don't even need courage.

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There is no trace of fear in yourself.

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And that is different because you can be a courageous, can you say that?

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A person with courage.

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You can be like that for many reasons.

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using or accessing to many different capacities in yourself.

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ah The motivation came from for many different places and you can have courage.

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Even sometimes not good places, right?

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You could be very angry and then you overcome your fear with all of that.

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But fearlessness only can come from your soul.

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Because fearlessness means that first you must experience your soul and in that experience
fear is not a possibility.

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Because you cannot experience that death or die.

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don't know how to say it.

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Annihilation.

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Yeah.

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So you cannot have that aniquilación because your soul is immortal.

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You are timeless.

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You are infinite.

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So you are not lack.

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You don't lack time.

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are not wounded or caught by your desires.

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You are not caught by ignorance.

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There is no weakness there.

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is not death-ness.

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So it's a different experience.

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So we are going through the different fears and to have the courage to overcome them.

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But actually the complete journey is about being fearless to tap to that, that experience
of the soul to go beyond that.

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So we are, we are now in the, the next one, I think it's the sixth class.

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Actually we have the recordings.

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Yeah, we're already, we're, we're ready.

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started we have the recording so the people can access to that but and also they can
appoint for each different session so when when your tie comes actually we will promote it

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and everything so everybody knows that you will be there that is in November

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great.

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So then I I I get to basically try to topple what everybody said before.

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Because I'm a troublemaker.

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Yeah, but you have actually your topic is fear of not existing.

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Yeah, but that's like the ultimate that's sure.

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And that is your topic.

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So I'm very, I'm very, very tranquil about whatever you're, you have to say.

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I think it will be great.

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So and how do you so have you have you been the one to do all these or have you had
different guests on?

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How how have you done those classes?

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ah So far I've done all the classes but the actually the next one is done by another
teacher Guru sansar Singh which is very well-known teacher They have a school basanti uh

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School, ah they especially have presence in Latin America.

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He will give it three different classes um And then Param Sahesh Singh also he has a very
good good school a bigger school, I mean um

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And Namnidankaur, she doesn't need an introduction on yourself.

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So that's it.

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So we have three, six, seven, seven or eight classes done by different international
teachers.

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I'm excited about this.

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It's a great topic.

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can uh sign up for that, uh let me know how they can do it and maybe I could, you know,
post a link here on the uh on the video.

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Yeah, let's do that so they can do it.

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And again, they can take only one class.

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They can look what are the fears and anyone that actually fits you.

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How is this the term in English?

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Who the cup fit, let them wear it.

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think this is the way.

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So you feel it fits you and you're doing it.

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Really?

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Yeah.

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But you can sign up for only that.

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But honestly, I think especially your class, Nami Dan's class, they should not miss it.

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It's about, she will teach you about fear of love and you will be teaching about fear of
not existing.

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So it's very core, very core ah things in a spiritual path.

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I think you're gonna be so I'm not even gonna share here.

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I think you'd probably be surprised at some of the stuff I'm gonna say, because it's
probably not gonna maybe agree with what other people are saying.

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But as I said, I I'm I'm basically I I I'm a I'm an expert troublemaker.

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I just like I just like causing trouble.

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of the reasons that I like the idea that you are there is actually that, that you are not
saying what people normally says.

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And I think that is causing actually the real troubles because we are in a point here uh
in a spiritual path.

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And when I say my spiritual path, talking, I'm not talking about ours, anyone, where
everything gets diluted and everything

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is done or said in a way that everybody can digest it.

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But the important thing is actually whatever is taught in spiritual path can carry you
through all the journey.

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And that is not very popular.

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So not very popular thing actually in the spiritual world is a good thing, is good news.

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You know, I pick you've known me a long time, and of course you you consider yourself a a
student of Yogi Bhajan like myself.

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And uh I think one thing I picked up in my style, I mean I certainly wasn't this way when
I was younger, but by the time I was involved with this and I swear to you, this is not

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it's never a conscious thing on my part.

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It's just

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kind of how I am.

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But I I think it kind of it's it's contagious and it kinda rubbed off on me.

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I don't think it was anything intellectually clear about it.

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It's just something I picked up and ran with.

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And that is that uh it's just kind of been my style, but it was also my teacher style
without any doubt.

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And he did it with me.

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Is like it's kinda like

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You're trying to inspire people, you're trying to invoke some kind of wisdom.

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And I think different people have different ways of doing it.

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So of course, we know teachers who are there with a uh a chalkboard and they're going blah
blah blah blah they're right.

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Okay.

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That okay, I I I respect it.

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Uh I it's not my thing.

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Although I was raised that way.

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But it's it's just not my style to be teaching in that way.

216
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It's not even my style to like people are always you're a psychologist too.

217
00:21:25,203 --> 00:21:26,053
We talk about this.

218
00:21:26,053 --> 00:21:29,535
You know, people are always asking for my advice.

219
00:21:29,535 --> 00:21:30,565
You know, what should I do?

220
00:21:30,565 --> 00:21:31,735
What shouldn't I do?

221
00:21:31,735 --> 00:21:35,377
But I really that's not kind of my thing either.

222
00:21:35,377 --> 00:21:38,471
Like, okay, I think you should do this, I think you should do that.

223
00:21:38,471 --> 00:21:48,336
I I I actually don't like and I think the reason I don't like that is I don't think it's
helpful to anybody that they just do what I tell them to do.

224
00:21:48,578 --> 00:21:54,081
I mean, even if they land up doing it, that doesn't mean that they really have changed as
a person.

225
00:21:54,081 --> 00:22:08,929
And I think, like my teacher, I think I eventually evolved into the kind of person that I
find that I just like blowing up people's um paradigms.

226
00:22:08,989 --> 00:22:09,910
I just love it.

227
00:22:09,910 --> 00:22:16,633
I j I know I swear to God, you know, if for 20 years, I have never even once thought,
okay, I'm gonna blow up their paradigm.

228
00:22:16,633 --> 00:22:18,200
It's just kind of like

229
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:19,601
It's just like brushing my teeth.

230
00:22:19,601 --> 00:22:20,802
It just comes naturally.

231
00:22:20,802 --> 00:22:38,394
So if anybody is with me and they have a certain uh fixed way of looking at things, I'm
just gonna I'm just gonna like blow up their reality and and kind of not necessarily give

232
00:22:38,394 --> 00:22:39,445
them a solution.

233
00:22:39,445 --> 00:22:46,416
I'm just gonna blow it up and let them put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

234
00:22:46,416 --> 00:22:46,857
Right.

235
00:22:46,857 --> 00:22:49,830
I think that's kind of how my teacher was with me.

236
00:22:49,830 --> 00:23:03,071
He just kind of blew my mind, but he didn't necessarily give me uh like okay, do this or
explain why he was blowing up Humpty Dumpty.

237
00:23:03,311 --> 00:23:13,762
It's like he basically would just blow up my paradigms, but somehow give me the tools that
I needed.

238
00:23:13,762 --> 00:23:17,674
put Humpty Dumpty back together again and be a better Humpty Dumpty.

239
00:23:17,674 --> 00:23:26,800
And I don't know if you know the story of Humpty Dumpty, but uh it yeah it's an in yeah
there's a st there's like um a fable about Humpty Dumpty.

240
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:33,654
It was like this big egg sitting on a wall and Humpty Dumpty fell apart and they had to
put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

241
00:23:33,654 --> 00:23:36,165
It's a it's an old wives tale.

242
00:23:36,165 --> 00:23:39,167
So you'll hear people sometimes say talk about Humpty Dumpty.

243
00:23:39,167 --> 00:23:41,568
But basically um

244
00:23:42,570 --> 00:23:54,570
I I was somebody who really didn't know what they were doing, even though I thought I did,
and this guy comes along and he basically blows up all my preconceptions about everything.

245
00:23:54,570 --> 00:23:58,013
But he's not necessarily telling me how things are.

246
00:23:58,013 --> 00:24:10,353
He's just blowing up whatever I thought and leaving me to figure out how to put it back
together again, but also kind of giving me some tools on how to do that.

247
00:24:10,399 --> 00:24:11,519
And it took a long time.

248
00:24:11,519 --> 00:24:14,300
And now I I kind of do the same thing.

249
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:31,175
And so uh, you know, the question is is that you know you're a psychologist and a teacher,
and you like me, we both know because especially because of our orientations, we we know

250
00:24:31,175 --> 00:24:38,282
that even though we may not have exactly the same viewpoint towards it on details.

251
00:24:38,282 --> 00:24:45,585
I think both of us understand the great obstacle and opportunity that fear plays in
people's lives.

252
00:24:45,585 --> 00:24:46,284
Okay.

253
00:24:46,284 --> 00:24:56,389
So almost everybody who I deal with on some level or other, there are paralyzed by fear,
even if they don't realize it.

254
00:24:56,689 --> 00:25:06,707
And it's my kind of job to help kind of them get that unshackled so that they can finally
live in.

255
00:25:06,707 --> 00:25:12,892
some freedom, but that's not gonna happen until they figure out how to free themselves
from this fear.

256
00:25:12,892 --> 00:25:26,817
So as um the beloved teacher and psychologist and counselor that you are, do you have a
any particular way that that you try to help people?

257
00:25:26,817 --> 00:25:36,441
I mean, I mean, because you're talking about fear in some philosophical way, but but uh in
a concrete way, how do you find yourself

258
00:25:37,011 --> 00:25:45,567
getting people on the road to um, you know, g getting the shackles off of the fear that's
paralyzing them.

259
00:25:45,567 --> 00:25:50,667
Yeah, I'm kind of more academic person in psychology.

260
00:25:51,047 --> 00:25:55,867
I have witnessed your style many times.

261
00:25:55,867 --> 00:26:03,387
have been paradigms being blown like in very heavy way by yourself.

262
00:26:04,127 --> 00:26:14,247
this is actually, it's not because we are talking right now together, but honestly, you're
one of the best psychologists I have ever met.

263
00:26:14,435 --> 00:26:25,038
Not in terms of the degrees you have or anything, but actually being front, face to face
to the person and the ability to change their life in this 15 minutes conversation.

264
00:26:25,038 --> 00:26:28,459
ah But I am more academic.

265
00:26:28,459 --> 00:26:33,180
I like more explaining why is this and why is that.

266
00:26:33,180 --> 00:26:40,832
Well, my job is I gain my life through psychology and in that job is more usual that you
company the person through the process.

267
00:26:40,832 --> 00:26:44,333
So it's different logic behind it.

268
00:26:44,751 --> 00:26:52,678
So um I don't even know exactly how I do it, which is of each of them.

269
00:26:52,678 --> 00:27:01,186
um You have many, many, many, many more years than me doing it.

270
00:27:01,266 --> 00:27:11,055
So you have it more, maybe more clear, but while you was talking, I was thinking and at
least currently, because it can change.

271
00:27:11,929 --> 00:27:16,903
Actually, I find myself, I think this is very accurate thing to say.

272
00:27:17,679 --> 00:27:28,292
I try to make people get back to very simple, original things that everybody knows.

273
00:27:29,573 --> 00:27:31,514
And then get committed with it.

274
00:27:32,496 --> 00:27:41,622
So if the people is lying to themselves, if they are lying to other people, is there, they
are letting other one...

275
00:27:42,023 --> 00:27:47,063
hand or face down.

276
00:27:48,243 --> 00:27:55,483
If they are, you know, they are not an integrated person in some way.

277
00:27:56,323 --> 00:27:59,123
There are, this is very simple.

278
00:27:59,123 --> 00:28:03,143
I don't know if we'll be here, there's something deeper or shallow.

279
00:28:03,143 --> 00:28:04,163
I don't know.

280
00:28:04,163 --> 00:28:09,119
But when we was little kids, we would tell them many things.

281
00:28:09,607 --> 00:28:17,007
And then when we become parents, we still teaching that to our children, but we are not
doing it.

282
00:28:18,227 --> 00:28:21,467
And I think we all can relate with that.

283
00:28:21,847 --> 00:28:33,187
And when you remember certain things, for instance, when you are in a spiritual path and
you have fear and everybody knows that the person in the spiritual path should go beyond

284
00:28:33,187 --> 00:28:34,427
fear and why.

285
00:28:34,427 --> 00:28:39,039
So I just remind them that and they confront that things that

286
00:28:40,165 --> 00:28:52,161
the reason why they are lying to oneself, why they believe lying or creating distrust in
another person can be anyhow valid.

287
00:28:55,604 --> 00:29:09,431
so I think what they get many times, very often is certain innocence of going back to the
basic principles of life, but in a very mature way.

288
00:29:13,029 --> 00:29:14,500
I think that is my approach.

289
00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:19,263
um And again, I threw bombs.

290
00:29:19,264 --> 00:29:22,786
I know how to do it and I like it and I do it.

291
00:29:22,967 --> 00:29:29,371
But normally I just company the process until the moment comes that there is no other way.

292
00:29:30,412 --> 00:29:33,814
The bomb should ah fall.

293
00:29:34,062 --> 00:29:37,260
Yeah, I think you know, you're I think

294
00:29:38,936 --> 00:29:41,177
In some ways and I like it.

295
00:29:41,177 --> 00:29:53,460
I d I think maybe in the future we'll land up teaching together and approaching it from
different points so people can take whatever they want from anybody.

296
00:29:53,460 --> 00:29:56,181
They you know, give them some choices, you know.

297
00:29:56,361 --> 00:30:06,713
But what you were just saying reminded me that I I can see how you're very self-aware and

298
00:30:06,713 --> 00:30:10,315
Thoughtful in about how you deal with people.

299
00:30:10,315 --> 00:30:11,306
Okay.

300
00:30:11,306 --> 00:30:16,680
And it's the reason that I asked you how you deal with it, because I think you you're
you're very aware of it.

301
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:22,833
And and I actually, for the most part, are not as aware.

302
00:30:23,003 --> 00:30:28,568
I just I just throw spaghetti against the wall, that kind of thing.

303
00:30:28,568 --> 00:30:29,318
And

304
00:30:29,761 --> 00:30:36,047
I'm uh psychologist, in our first degree, let's say.

305
00:30:36,147 --> 00:30:37,509
That is not different.

306
00:30:37,509 --> 00:30:38,829
That's different.

307
00:30:39,931 --> 00:30:42,173
Yeah, kind of thing, right?

308
00:30:42,173 --> 00:30:44,815
So it's different.

309
00:30:44,956 --> 00:30:47,048
You're trying to get to the point.

310
00:30:47,048 --> 00:31:06,028
I never I never actually had the slightest idea of what I was doing in the psychology
field until somebody asked me for the first time if I was interested in in actually

311
00:31:06,028 --> 00:31:08,289
teaching people what I did.

312
00:31:09,018 --> 00:31:10,038
And

313
00:31:10,153 --> 00:31:13,394
And I accepted the invitation unconditioned.

314
00:31:13,394 --> 00:31:14,234
sounds great.

315
00:31:14,234 --> 00:31:15,234
You know, sure.

316
00:31:15,234 --> 00:31:17,715
In in December, yeah, of course.

317
00:31:17,715 --> 00:31:22,666
Okay, you know, you'll have various weekends and you'll teach people what you're doing,
right?

318
00:31:22,666 --> 00:31:26,657
And I was all I was all happy about that.

319
00:31:26,657 --> 00:31:36,159
And then the telephone conversation ended and I said I started laughing to myself and I'm
going, I'm wondering what I'm gonna teach, because I have no idea what I'm doing.

320
00:31:36,159 --> 00:31:38,473
I have not the slightest idea.

321
00:31:38,473 --> 00:31:39,294
But

322
00:31:39,294 --> 00:31:49,733
I have till this course to kind of figure out what I'm doing because I have no idea what
I'm doing because I don't do anything thoughtfully like this.

323
00:31:49,733 --> 00:31:52,295
I don't I don't have any system, in other words.

324
00:31:52,295 --> 00:31:58,480
I don't have a system, so how am I gonna explain what I'm doing when I'm not actually
following any system?

325
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,362
I'm just doing everything by the seat of my pants.

326
00:32:01,843 --> 00:32:07,388
And then I had to figure, okay, what I'm gonna have to say something, but I don't really
know what I'm doing.

327
00:32:07,388 --> 00:32:07,850
So I

328
00:32:07,850 --> 00:32:17,304
I had to sit down and and I started kind of understanding, because I had to, some of the
things that I was doing.

329
00:32:17,304 --> 00:32:19,064
And it was interesting.

330
00:32:19,685 --> 00:32:22,796
Take f this whole area of fear, for instance.

331
00:32:22,796 --> 00:32:37,822
I think that's a really w which is all pervasive, of course, but I realized, although I
was doing it unconsciously, that my go-to, and I keep saying my go-to because it's not.

332
00:32:38,132 --> 00:32:43,957
really a go-to is that it's really not intentional, it's not conscious, it's not a system.

333
00:32:43,957 --> 00:32:52,184
It just it's in the it's in the conversation, it kind of there's a moment that I'm gonna
do something.

334
00:32:52,184 --> 00:32:58,530
But if and as you know it's almost always about fear, directly or indirectly.

335
00:32:58,530 --> 00:32:59,430
It is.

336
00:32:59,551 --> 00:33:04,735
And I I I realized that what I naturally did

337
00:33:06,667 --> 00:33:16,082
To kind of help people get forward is to actually up the doses, like double the doses.

338
00:33:16,082 --> 00:33:33,683
So if they were in fear about anything, instead of helping them like somehow understand
the roots of the fear, come to some terms with the fear, give them a meditation for the

339
00:33:33,683 --> 00:33:34,398
okay.

340
00:33:34,398 --> 00:33:40,340
No, I found myself almost consistently doubling the dosage of fear.

341
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:54,416
And whatever they were afraid of, I found myself actually doubling down on it and asking
them to take on more fear rather than less fear, or a circumstance that would provoke more

342
00:33:54,416 --> 00:34:03,949
fear, with with the idea that although they don't realize it, they have the inner
resources to adapt to it.

343
00:34:04,335 --> 00:34:04,825
Absolutely.

344
00:34:04,825 --> 00:34:20,824
And if they're able to basically overcome that double dosage of fear that would almost be
like a vaccine against other fear because instead of like running from the fire, I'm

345
00:34:20,824 --> 00:34:27,138
pushing them to run into the fire and knowing that they're going to survive or not.

346
00:34:27,198 --> 00:34:32,231
But they but they have to survive because that's what's ahead for them.

347
00:34:32,231 --> 00:34:33,281
So I'm preparing them.

348
00:34:33,281 --> 00:34:41,205
So that has been kind of like like recently, but if anybody's listening to this, I'm not
okay, I'm not talking about you.

349
00:34:41,205 --> 00:34:45,726
Because somebody will hear me say this and they're going, oh, this thing what happened in
my thing.

350
00:34:45,726 --> 00:34:46,387
No, no, no.

351
00:34:46,387 --> 00:34:47,947
This is not uncommon.

352
00:34:47,947 --> 00:34:48,347
Okay.

353
00:34:48,347 --> 00:34:56,821
So if you think that if you're listening to this and I've talked to you and you think I'm
talking about you, I'm talking about you and a hundred other people I've talked to about

354
00:34:56,821 --> 00:34:57,891
this, right?

355
00:34:57,891 --> 00:35:02,193
But this is a really kind of good example of it, is that

356
00:35:02,212 --> 00:35:17,720
Somebody was very unhappy being in a relationship and hearing a little bit about it, first
of all, this was nothing that they should have been in, clearly to begin with.

357
00:35:18,261 --> 00:35:23,784
And but they were so emotionally attached to the other person.

358
00:35:23,784 --> 00:35:30,487
You've dealt with this all the time as a psychologist, is that they're they're like
addicted to this other person.

359
00:35:30,863 --> 00:35:37,365
And whatever they're getting out of it, but clearly it's suicidal, and they're not gonna
grow in their life.

360
00:35:37,445 --> 00:35:46,467
And part of them really wants to break free from this, but they just cannot do it, okay,
for whatever is holding them back.

361
00:35:46,627 --> 00:35:48,648
So, how am I gonna do it?

362
00:35:48,648 --> 00:35:49,688
I'm gonna deal with it.

363
00:35:49,688 --> 00:35:58,490
We get to the point where they can acknowledge it, but I'm not talking theoretically, I'm
like handing them a telephone.

364
00:35:58,531 --> 00:36:00,651
Call them now, break it off right now.

365
00:36:00,785 --> 00:36:09,801
This is like a relationship for like fifteen years, and I'm handing somebody a cell phone,
I'm saying, No, you're gonna end it like right now, and they're freaking out.

366
00:36:09,801 --> 00:36:14,844
so okay, I've I've I've been there where they actually made the call.

367
00:36:15,705 --> 00:36:20,348
And I've been there where they're going, my god, I can't bring myself to it.

368
00:36:20,348 --> 00:36:23,190
How mu they're going, What I can't do it right now.

369
00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:26,492
I said, Okay, I'm giving you twenty-four hours.

370
00:36:27,033 --> 00:36:30,315
And if you don't make it in twenty-four hours.

371
00:36:30,833 --> 00:36:32,458
Don't come back, talk to me.

372
00:36:34,084 --> 00:36:44,021
And there of course many people would be offended with that kind of strategy, but in this
case, the person did make the call.

373
00:36:46,147 --> 00:36:47,969
They this is not uncommon.

374
00:36:47,969 --> 00:36:58,647
They make the call, they did it, they're free from it, they're freaked out, they're angry
at me, right?

375
00:36:59,028 --> 00:37:07,895
And they're saying I ruined their life, but a year later, they're calling me and telling
me, Thank you, nobody else.

376
00:37:08,476 --> 00:37:10,117
I I needed to hear that.

377
00:37:10,117 --> 00:37:13,179
I did do it, my life is fantastic.

378
00:37:13,220 --> 00:37:14,861
And you know, and now.

379
00:37:14,861 --> 00:37:20,723
No and now but most importantly is now nobody can control me anymore.

380
00:37:21,039 --> 00:37:22,079
Absolutely.

381
00:37:23,260 --> 00:37:24,601
Yeah.

382
00:37:24,601 --> 00:37:32,944
They had to conquer something themselves through the challenge you have put in their path.

383
00:37:32,944 --> 00:37:39,087
And the thing, this is one of the reasons why I do yogic psychology.

384
00:37:39,127 --> 00:37:46,210
I don't like uh very much to do it in another way uh because, many things happen.

385
00:37:46,210 --> 00:37:47,801
First thing is that

386
00:37:50,087 --> 00:37:55,807
Doing things like this in psychology is a taboo, right?

387
00:37:56,587 --> 00:37:59,927
Because you should not tell the other person what to do.

388
00:37:59,927 --> 00:38:03,867
You don't say to other people what to do, but you put the person in these situations.

389
00:38:03,867 --> 00:38:05,867
But anyhow, this is a taboo.

390
00:38:05,867 --> 00:38:17,547
But I think it's a weakness in Western psychology because when you have a person in front
of you, yes, they're lives, but sometimes you know there is a cliff.

391
00:38:18,375 --> 00:38:27,915
And normally the psychologist will not tell the other person there is a cliff because they
have to know it by themselves because whatever reason it is.

392
00:38:28,195 --> 00:38:32,435
But actually the main reason to me is actually they don't know how mine actually works.

393
00:38:32,435 --> 00:38:36,435
There are theories about it, but it's not real life facing real life.

394
00:38:36,435 --> 00:38:42,815
And then if you take that decision, actually you will have to to pay for 10 or 20 years of
your life.

395
00:38:43,035 --> 00:38:47,775
The decision you have made, but the psychologist in a position is like, no, they have

396
00:38:48,768 --> 00:38:50,049
to see by themselves.

397
00:38:50,049 --> 00:39:05,509
And there is a thing, I think this is mostly because there is a concept nowadays, not only
in psychology, but everywhere that true doesn't even exist.

398
00:39:07,184 --> 00:39:19,584
And these have everything to do with spiritual path because if you don't think truth
actually exists, then there is no place for a spiritual path because there is nothing to

399
00:39:19,584 --> 00:39:20,515
know there.

400
00:39:20,515 --> 00:39:34,637
The spiritual path is built on over the conception that there is a truth first and second,
you can know the truth because if there is a truth, but you cannot know it, they why to

401
00:39:34,637 --> 00:39:36,098
bother, right?

402
00:39:55,669 --> 00:39:39,805
to you don't need to tell people this is the thing.

403
00:39:39,805 --> 00:39:45,789
I'm very passionate about this stuff, but I think this is everywhere and it is created
problems.

404
00:39:46,651 --> 00:39:49,613
You don't need to tell people to not believe in God.

405
00:39:49,733 --> 00:39:55,998
If you just convince them that there is all that every person have their own truth.

406
00:39:56,539 --> 00:39:58,370
And everything is right.

407
00:39:58,828 --> 00:40:01,069
It's only depends on how you feel it.

408
00:40:01,470 --> 00:40:10,938
After years you have the situation now that everybody is atheistic because if you say
there is no truth, there is no God.

409
00:40:10,938 --> 00:40:12,459
It's the same.

410
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:19,026
The mind, your psychology will do the work for you and at the end you will find that there
is not an ultimate truth.

411
00:40:19,026 --> 00:40:30,587
you know what's very interesting is that I hear from people you you're around these kind
of people too, is that if you ask them why they're involved in spiritual seeking

412
00:40:31,091 --> 00:40:36,472
They'll tell you is that almost all of them are gonna tell you, well, they're seeking the
truth.

413
00:40:36,472 --> 00:40:43,994
But then when you're actually presenting them with something that would represent an
ultimate truth, they're going, it doesn't exist.

414
00:40:43,994 --> 00:40:45,916
So why are you pursuing it?

415
00:40:45,916 --> 00:40:48,587
also, you know, this is super interesting.

416
00:40:48,587 --> 00:40:55,079
People don't recognize this, but what we know is modern psychology, right?

417
00:40:55,219 --> 00:40:56,399
Actually

418
00:40:56,819 --> 00:41:00,660
And this is this is historically factual truth, okay?

419
00:41:00,660 --> 00:41:12,944
But people kind of have amnesia about these things, is that the school of psychology in
the universities actually came out of the school of philosophy.

420
00:41:13,586 --> 00:41:21,308
And the schools of philosophy basically were children of the school of religion.

421
00:41:21,706 --> 00:41:25,844
So it's basically religion, philosophy, psychology.

422
00:41:25,844 --> 00:41:32,656
But now the psychologists are talking like they're the gods, but they forgot who their
parents were.

423
00:41:32,742 --> 00:41:34,004
absolutely, absolutely.

424
00:41:34,004 --> 00:41:41,307
And I want to say something I actually, but this is I will throw a little bomb and maybe
we can discuss about this later.

425
00:41:41,307 --> 00:41:43,788
But this is not only about psychology.

426
00:41:44,008 --> 00:41:45,629
It's for making everything.

427
00:41:45,629 --> 00:41:49,490
So you was telling about the spiritual path, the spiritual seekers.

428
00:41:49,631 --> 00:41:51,241
So I was talking with that person.

429
00:41:51,241 --> 00:41:54,713
It's exactly the same example, but going to yoga.

430
00:41:54,813 --> 00:42:00,625
So yoga teacher, I was talking to her in a session.

431
00:42:01,225 --> 00:42:02,996
And I told her, you know what the problem is?

432
00:42:02,996 --> 00:42:04,858
The problem is why?

433
00:42:04,858 --> 00:42:07,760
You don't know why you're in the spiritual path.

434
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:09,101
Why you're doing yoga?

435
00:42:09,101 --> 00:42:11,223
Because if you're here, you have a tool.

436
00:42:11,223 --> 00:42:16,187
If you have a hammer, you need to know that that is for putting nails.

437
00:42:16,187 --> 00:42:18,368
Otherwise, it's pointless.

438
00:42:18,368 --> 00:42:19,690
So yoga is the same.

439
00:42:19,690 --> 00:42:26,735
So, well, the person just went around, never said anything about God or divinity or
anything.

440
00:42:27,049 --> 00:42:33,724
different things of healing and self-improvement, all these that is not a spiritual path
itself.

441
00:42:34,986 --> 00:42:40,950
And then I went to the point like yoga means union and union with God.

442
00:42:41,071 --> 00:42:44,033
So it's everything about devotion that is your problem.

443
00:42:44,854 --> 00:42:47,737
You know, so you know what she said?

444
00:42:47,737 --> 00:42:50,039
She was crying, she was emotional.

445
00:42:50,039 --> 00:42:55,643
I don't remember if crying, but I think so, but she was super emotional as she said, you
know what?

446
00:42:56,297 --> 00:43:02,289
That is how I believed about yoga until I did the teacher training.

447
00:43:03,309 --> 00:43:14,492
They taught us differently and I thought that devotion to God and trying to merge with God
through this, actually I was the grown one.

448
00:43:14,593 --> 00:43:19,434
So I gave up of my idea of having a relationship with God.

449
00:43:20,455 --> 00:43:22,395
This was a teacher training.

450
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:40,797
Well, you know, I think we're very much on the same page and I I think, you know, you'll
be a guest on further episodes this because I I think that uh however we found common

451
00:43:40,797 --> 00:43:52,042
ground, I think the both of us have been very influenced by our own experience and what
we've observed and uh came to some

452
00:43:52,754 --> 00:43:58,137
level of peace that there is a a truth, a universal truth that exists.

453
00:43:58,238 --> 00:44:11,517
And that we we feel very fortunate to have uh kind of put up a white flag and and and
acknowledged that in our own lives and how much peace it's brought to our own lives.

454
00:44:11,517 --> 00:44:14,650
So thank you so much for being with us today.

455
00:44:14,650 --> 00:44:16,654
Well God God bless you, Sarananda.

456
00:44:16,654 --> 00:44:22,114
Vahigurijika Kalsa Vahigurijiki Pate.