1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:06,040 Welcome to the Energetic Radio Podcast. This episode is brought to you by the 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,720 SchoolOfPlay, co hosted by Dale Sybottom and Paul 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:13,440 Campbell. Each week we'll bring to you tips, strategies and ideas on 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,760 how you can bring more joy and happiness into your life and those you share 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,240 it with. All right, everyone, welcome back to the podcast. 6 00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:24,080 Episode number 366 of the energetic Radio Podcast. 7 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,790 Craig Randell, welcome to the show, mate. Thanks. Glad to be 8 00:00:27,790 --> 00:00:31,510 here. I think it's my first podcast from down under. Oh, 9 00:00:31,510 --> 00:00:35,310 there we go. Still pretty special. That definitely does. You're obviously 10 00:00:35,310 --> 00:00:38,670 joining from Seattle. Now, mate, you've. I'm going to give you a little intro here. 11 00:00:38,670 --> 00:00:41,990 I'm probably not going to do it justice, but consultant, which we'll talk about 12 00:00:42,149 --> 00:00:45,870 more. Teacher, principal. You've been a principal through Asia, the 13 00:00:45,870 --> 00:00:49,630 Middle East, South America, so a lot of international schools. But the 14 00:00:49,630 --> 00:00:52,990 biggest thing I want to know, mate, I'm a. I love making pizzas as well. 15 00:00:52,990 --> 00:00:56,710 And I know that you are a pizza connoisseur. Great. What 16 00:00:56,710 --> 00:01:00,490 is your go to topic? Like what, what's your best pizza mate 17 00:01:00,490 --> 00:01:03,650 that you could make? If Paul and myself were coming over, what would you do? 18 00:01:04,770 --> 00:01:08,170 Now, this one's not everyone's cup of tea. Okay, but that's okay. But I like 19 00:01:08,170 --> 00:01:11,930 it already. It's the one that I think is my favorite. Okay, so it's 20 00:01:11,930 --> 00:01:15,410 pesto sauce. Okay. Cheese, 21 00:01:15,410 --> 00:01:18,850 obviously. Then it's got kalamata olives, artichoke 22 00:01:18,850 --> 00:01:22,530 hearts, sun dried tomatoes, kind of those 23 00:01:22,530 --> 00:01:26,050 little pickled pepper kind of things. And then feta 24 00:01:26,050 --> 00:01:28,650 cheese. Oh, wow, you've got me. 25 00:01:30,090 --> 00:01:33,890 You had me. Sun dried tomatoes and feta. Dried tomatoes and 26 00:01:33,890 --> 00:01:37,610 feta. Oh, what a combination. Yeah. And the kalamata too, those 27 00:01:37,610 --> 00:01:40,970 strong flavors. Oh, yeah, we're in. I like it. That, that's a bit of a. 28 00:01:40,970 --> 00:01:44,570 That's, that's a Mediterranean background there, Craig. Does that come from anywhere you might. 29 00:01:44,570 --> 00:01:48,210 No, I didn't think about that. But I think it must have, like, it must 30 00:01:48,210 --> 00:01:51,930 have oozed into me somewhere. I love. Now, I 31 00:01:51,930 --> 00:01:54,250 wasn't aware of this. This has been sprung on me. Is this like a side. 32 00:01:54,250 --> 00:01:57,690 Is this a side hustle or a side love that you got? Just love making 33 00:01:57,690 --> 00:02:01,490 pizzas. It would like, like, like however many 34 00:02:01,490 --> 00:02:04,610 other billion people I started baking during COVID 35 00:02:05,250 --> 00:02:09,010 and like most things, other people could make better, so I stopped baking it. 36 00:02:09,090 --> 00:02:12,810 But the pizza dough I made and I actually cook it on our pizza stone 37 00:02:12,810 --> 00:02:16,570 on our barbecue outside grill. Like I realized, oh 38 00:02:16,570 --> 00:02:20,350 no, I make this better than most people. So. Yeah, nice. I Like it and 39 00:02:20,350 --> 00:02:23,470 has the baking, has the, the pizza dough 40 00:02:23,550 --> 00:02:26,670 transferred into bread or just 41 00:02:27,230 --> 00:02:30,950 bread, but, but like. I can get really. People 42 00:02:30,950 --> 00:02:34,350 can make bread better than I can really easily. Like my pizza, like 43 00:02:34,910 --> 00:02:38,430 it's pretty good. I like it. I like it too, mate. I like it. 44 00:02:38,510 --> 00:02:41,550 I'm the same. I've got a stone like pizza oven and 45 00:02:42,270 --> 00:02:45,630 it's a really nice thing when people come over. Like it's the thing I find 46 00:02:45,630 --> 00:02:49,400 though, Craig, is I think everyone else has a really good time, but I'm 47 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,840 flat out making the dough, doing the pizza. Everyone's having a great time. They go, 48 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,840 you're gonna sit down? I'm like, I can't. 49 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,280 It's true. But you know what I like most? I mean I like make. I'm 50 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,560 introverted though, so sometimes I kind of like it because then I can step back. 51 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,520 But then the other thing though is it's like sometimes you cook a 52 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:11,000 food and it'll be like all this time and Everybody's done in 20 minutes. 53 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,160 But when you have to keep making pizza, after pizza end up being this three, 54 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,520 four hour event that ends up being way more social. I think that's my favorite 55 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,470 part. Yeah, that's, that's a good way of looking at it. I'll just say I 56 00:03:20,470 --> 00:03:23,670 did it recently on Sunday and oh, it's like everyone was having a good time 57 00:03:23,670 --> 00:03:26,630 besides me. So I like the way you think about that, that it just. You 58 00:03:26,630 --> 00:03:29,990 have to drink too. That'll help you. I definitely had a couple of years. No 59 00:03:29,990 --> 00:03:33,470 problems here with that one, right? No problems here with that one. Yeah. Craig, obviously 60 00:03:33,870 --> 00:03:37,150 mate, you've got a glowing resume and the work you're doing now of trust based 61 00:03:38,030 --> 00:03:41,270 trust is one of the hardest things I feel to gain. And we talk about 62 00:03:41,270 --> 00:03:44,870 this all the time. Obviously we try and use play to make people feel safe 63 00:03:44,870 --> 00:03:48,590 and through that we try and build trust just in the world. 64 00:03:48,830 --> 00:03:52,410 How do build trust? What's the best way that you've seen it from? 65 00:03:52,490 --> 00:03:55,690 Obviously all your practices been principal all around the world. 66 00:03:56,250 --> 00:03:58,330 Is there a clear way to do it? 67 00:04:00,970 --> 00:04:04,530 No, I think there's a clear way, but I'll think there's things you can do 68 00:04:04,530 --> 00:04:08,370 and maybe even like. Okay, so in my earlier days I 69 00:04:08,370 --> 00:04:12,010 was a basketball coach and I would read basketball coaching books all the time. 70 00:04:12,250 --> 00:04:16,090 There was a guy named Dean Smith. He was Michael Jordan's college basketball coach. I 71 00:04:16,090 --> 00:04:19,830 know you guys know who Michael Jordan is. North Carolina. In his book 72 00:04:20,070 --> 00:04:23,710 he said, I learned a lot, a hell of a lot more about how to 73 00:04:23,710 --> 00:04:27,030 be good coach. From all the non examples than I did from the 74 00:04:27,030 --> 00:04:30,750 examples. So I think there's a ton of things that you 75 00:04:30,750 --> 00:04:34,510 shouldn't do that work against building trust. 76 00:04:34,510 --> 00:04:37,990 Because trust is hard to build, it's easy to ruin. 77 00:04:38,230 --> 00:04:42,070 And so one, I mean, being kind, 78 00:04:42,150 --> 00:04:45,950 being emotionally intelligent, those are good things to do. Like being short tempered, 79 00:04:45,950 --> 00:04:49,760 not thinking about things, being, thinking that I know best and people should 80 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,040 do things my way because that was the way that worked for me. Doesn't make 81 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,280 sense. Like in my world, like where we rate teachers on 82 00:04:56,280 --> 00:04:59,080 pedagogy, that's an absolutely horrible way 83 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,080 to build trust because that's their heart and soul on the line, man. Work from 84 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,800 strengths, don't work from deficits. I mean those are just right 85 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,480 off the top. Just a handful of little things. Yeah, I love that. 86 00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:15,640 So true. I saw a clip about an American teacher a while back. Yeah, I 87 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,840 was also a former assistant principal, Craig, and a teacher as well. And 88 00:05:19,610 --> 00:05:21,970 I saw a clip while back and there was an American lady and she was 89 00:05:21,970 --> 00:05:25,730 marking one of her students work. And he got, you know, he got, 90 00:05:25,730 --> 00:05:29,450 he got two out of 20 correct. And, and you know, and, and she's 91 00:05:29,450 --> 00:05:32,530 written. And then she just wrote plus two on the thing. And it wasn't a, 92 00:05:32,530 --> 00:05:35,370 you know, two out of 20, it was just a plus two. And he's like, 93 00:05:35,370 --> 00:05:38,330 hey, you got, you got two. Right. Well done. You know, she didn't harp on 94 00:05:38,330 --> 00:05:41,650 the fact that you got 18 wrong. She didn't write two out of 20. And 95 00:05:41,650 --> 00:05:45,250 just that little notion there goes so long just to. You're harping on the positives. 96 00:05:45,250 --> 00:05:48,300 Right. And the amount of trust that would have built between that lady and that 97 00:05:48,300 --> 00:05:52,020 student would have been incredible. Every single person you're 98 00:05:52,020 --> 00:05:55,780 with, whether it's a child or whether it's an adult that you're 99 00:05:55,780 --> 00:05:59,460 working with, we have to take them where they're at. I mean, 100 00:05:59,460 --> 00:06:02,540 because they're where they're at. Like we can say where we wish they were, but 101 00:06:02,540 --> 00:06:06,100 that's irrelevant. They're where they're at. So if I'm going to help 102 00:06:06,500 --> 00:06:10,260 support you and help grow you, I have to take with you where 103 00:06:10,260 --> 00:06:13,660 you're at. And I have to differentiate what I'm going to do. And like in 104 00:06:13,660 --> 00:06:17,160 my world of observing teachers, I do, I have times when I have to search 105 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,560 a lot harder for strengths. Of course I do when I do a 20 minute 106 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,320 observation. But I can always find things. And we're gonna take you 107 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,800 from there. And the thing is, you don't know what you don't know yet. 108 00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:32,560 The reason you're not doing well generally isn't because I know better and I'm choosing 109 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,160 not to. It's because I only know what I know. So if I work there 110 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,120 and think, why don't you know that? How the hell is that gonna help anybody 111 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,400 or anything get better? Yeah, I love it. Can we dive a bit more into 112 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,040 trust based observations and just enlighten especially myself and all of our listeners out 113 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,190 there with what, what exactly is trust based observations? What do you do on a 114 00:06:49,190 --> 00:06:52,750 day to day basis? How do you go about things? Fill us in. I mean, 115 00:06:52,750 --> 00:06:55,590 what I do is I train school leaders. Like we go on site, we do 116 00:06:55,590 --> 00:06:59,270 training with where they go in and observe their teachers and we practice all week 117 00:06:59,270 --> 00:07:02,990 with their teachers. So that's what we do. I mean, I wrote a book, but 118 00:07:02,990 --> 00:07:06,390 it's just the system. And so we help them learn the system over it. But 119 00:07:06,550 --> 00:07:10,030 really, in a nutshell, it's a continuous series of 20 minute 120 00:07:10,030 --> 00:07:13,510 observations. They're unannounced, which people think is scary, 121 00:07:13,830 --> 00:07:17,650 but when it's from a strengths based place, it's less scary. 122 00:07:17,650 --> 00:07:21,010 Because if I know you're coming in, I worry and then I'm going to plan 123 00:07:21,010 --> 00:07:24,770 extra and then I'm not even talking about real teaching. So it's unannounced. 124 00:07:24,770 --> 00:07:28,610 We have a form that just has nine core areas of just pedagogy. No 125 00:07:28,610 --> 00:07:32,289 matter what your style of teaching is, everyone does it. And 126 00:07:32,289 --> 00:07:35,730 then really though, the magic is the next day. And it's the reflective 127 00:07:35,730 --> 00:07:39,210 conversation. This is really where we build trust. It's the how 128 00:07:39,370 --> 00:07:43,110 is really what matters. Because we can talk about building trust, but it's, it's the 129 00:07:43,110 --> 00:07:46,830 actions you take. There's a woman in the US named Brene Brown. 130 00:07:46,830 --> 00:07:50,430 She's a really famous sociologist. You guys are nodding like you know who she is. 131 00:07:50,430 --> 00:07:54,270 Yes, we do. And she talks about the connection between vulnerability, 132 00:07:54,510 --> 00:07:58,349 trust and risk taking. And she said vulnerability is not a bad thing, but when 133 00:07:58,349 --> 00:08:02,070 it's too high, it's an inhibitor. And so she says the 134 00:08:02,070 --> 00:08:05,470 way you get people to take risks is by lowering vulnerability. 135 00:08:05,870 --> 00:08:09,670 The way you lower vulnerability is by building trust. And she 136 00:08:09,670 --> 00:08:12,930 has what I think is a great metaphor. And you think of a jar, it's. 137 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,520 And it's every consistent action that you take is putting a marble in a jar. 138 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,240 And once that jar is full, then people will trust and they'll take risks and 139 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,880 they'll innovate. And so really during that reflective conversation, 140 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,480 normally what do you do? You start telling the teacher what they did, what their 141 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,240 Scores were oftentimes what you need to fix. Like the need to fix 142 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:35,040 people right away. Like, you know, the compliment sandwich or two stars and 143 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,600 a wish or things like that. The research says that doesn't work 144 00:08:38,969 --> 00:08:42,569 because people are smart and people know the only reason you're saying the nice thing 145 00:08:42,729 --> 00:08:46,249 is to tell them what you really want to fix them. And so 146 00:08:47,129 --> 00:08:50,769 it's not genuine, right? I mean, it's. Well, people are well intended. I'm not saying 147 00:08:50,769 --> 00:08:54,489 that, but it doesn't work the way we want to. And so instead of 148 00:08:54,489 --> 00:08:58,249 like starting by that, we start by asking questions. 149 00:08:58,249 --> 00:09:01,929 And by asking questions, I think what I'm really saying is I value you 150 00:09:01,929 --> 00:09:04,729 as a professional and I care what you think and I want to hear what 151 00:09:04,729 --> 00:09:07,569 you think first. But I'm going to even go back first, so I'm going to 152 00:09:07,569 --> 00:09:11,000 reference everything as a marble so you'll know what I'm talking about now. 153 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,120 So the first thing we do is we have the conversation in the teacher's room 154 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,920 instead of our office. And we always say, whether you're 7 or 17 or 155 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,680 37, getting called to the principal's office feels like getting called to the principal's 156 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:25,200 office. And if you were a teacher earlier in your career, I bet 157 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,480 sometime your boss called you down and you had a moment of panic thinking, what'd 158 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,280 I do wrong? And it wasn't anything, but there's just something about it. It's 159 00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:36,680 how we think. Yeah, I've heard about you too. 160 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,420 The next thing is, sounds silly, but when we get to the room, we ask 161 00:09:43,420 --> 00:09:47,260 permission. Hey, is now a good time? Because I could say, hey, let's 162 00:09:47,260 --> 00:09:50,420 do it. And you will, but no one likes to be told. So just that 163 00:09:50,420 --> 00:09:54,180 little courtesy makes people more trustful. I sit beside 164 00:09:54,180 --> 00:09:57,860 you, not across from you. People are more comfortable when they sit beside each other 165 00:09:57,860 --> 00:10:01,700 than across from each other. We share the form. It's like we're looking 166 00:10:01,700 --> 00:10:05,460 at screens right now. We're transparent, we're not hiding anything. And then 167 00:10:05,620 --> 00:10:08,700 like I said, well, really the next thing we do is we literally tell them 168 00:10:08,700 --> 00:10:12,180 what the goal of trust based observations is. And we just say the goal is 169 00:10:12,180 --> 00:10:15,860 for all of us to do observations to build enough trust with all of you 170 00:10:15,940 --> 00:10:19,780 so that any one of us can come into your classroom, observe you, 171 00:10:20,180 --> 00:10:23,860 see you trying something new, and even though it's highly unlikely, have 172 00:10:23,860 --> 00:10:27,700 that thing you're trying be a train wreck. But as opposed to a 173 00:10:27,700 --> 00:10:31,140 maybe more traditional model where you'd be freaking out that that was happening today, 174 00:10:31,460 --> 00:10:34,820 you won't be worried because, you know, the next day, the first thing I'm going 175 00:10:34,820 --> 00:10:37,790 to say when I come into your room is, I. I love it that you 176 00:10:37,790 --> 00:10:41,510 were trying something new. Yeah. Good. And we say, because when that happens, what will 177 00:10:41,510 --> 00:10:45,270 you do? You'll keep trying new things, and then you'll get better. Yeah. So 178 00:10:45,270 --> 00:10:48,350 then we ask questions. We just like, what were you doing to help the students 179 00:10:48,350 --> 00:10:51,950 learn? But even then, we just say, as a little trust marble, 180 00:10:52,110 --> 00:10:55,270 we say, we definitely want to hear about the 20 minutes where you were in 181 00:10:55,270 --> 00:10:59,070 here. But we know sometimes you'll think you just missed the best part 182 00:10:59,070 --> 00:11:02,150 or you left right before the best part. And we just say, if that happened, 183 00:11:02,150 --> 00:11:05,470 tell us that too. It seems like a nothing throwaway statement, 184 00:11:06,190 --> 00:11:09,790 but, oh, my gosh, teachers relax. Yeah, Right. So 185 00:11:09,790 --> 00:11:13,470 we take down their answers. We share back their answers, 186 00:11:13,470 --> 00:11:17,190 which demonstrates that I've been actively listening to you. I make sure we're on 187 00:11:17,190 --> 00:11:20,110 the same page on that. We ask a second question. 188 00:11:22,830 --> 00:11:26,230 If you had to reteach the lesson, what, if anything, might you do differently? And 189 00:11:26,230 --> 00:11:29,960 we had another little trust marble and say, teaching's hard. 190 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,920 Sometimes when we teach, we nail it. When that happens, we want to 191 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,800 celebrate it. I never want you to feel like you have to manufacture an answer 192 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,240 to this question just because I'm asking. And at the same time, we know. Most 193 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,600 of the time we think, oh, I wish I would ever. Next time I'm going 194 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,440 to. And then we take down their answer to that question, and then we 195 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,000 start going through the form. And the form is so specific that everything 196 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,800 we're sharing with them is specific praise. And 197 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,040 that builds them up and builds them up and builds them up. And we don't 198 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,570 offer suggestions. The first four visits with the first three visits. 199 00:12:00,730 --> 00:12:04,250 That's interesting. I love that model. Yeah. Because it's that 200 00:12:04,250 --> 00:12:07,370 sand. Well, because if I do all this other trust stuff, but at the very 201 00:12:07,370 --> 00:12:10,090 end, I'm like, hey, listen, here's what I want you to work on. 202 00:12:11,770 --> 00:12:14,770 It's, it's, it's, it's going to come across as the same thing. Oh, you're doing 203 00:12:14,770 --> 00:12:17,450 all this nice tips just so you can tell me what to get better at. 204 00:12:17,930 --> 00:12:21,650 But one, how am I going to know after one time? Like, maybe it was 205 00:12:21,650 --> 00:12:24,850 just a bad day. Maybe you're good at that thing. I just didn't happen to 206 00:12:24,850 --> 00:12:28,670 see it. But for whatever reason, I'll tell you that my 207 00:12:28,670 --> 00:12:32,270 very first year as an assistant principal, I 208 00:12:32,270 --> 00:12:36,030 didn't offer praise at first because I was 209 00:12:36,030 --> 00:12:38,150 afraid of the thing. What if they were good at it, and I hadn't seen 210 00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:41,830 it, but really, when I was doing this new model, I didn't even. It wasn't 211 00:12:41,830 --> 00:12:45,350 even a model, and it was just what I'd learned to do. Teachers loved it. 212 00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:47,790 They were like, you're the best principal I ever had. I didn't know what I 213 00:12:47,790 --> 00:12:51,470 was doing. But they cared about being listened to so much and having strengths 214 00:12:51,470 --> 00:12:55,310 shared that they felt that. And so the real reason I 215 00:12:55,310 --> 00:12:58,830 didn't give feedback right away was I was afraid if I started telling them what 216 00:12:58,830 --> 00:13:02,590 to fix, they wouldn't like me anymore. Yeah. And it's the 217 00:13:02,590 --> 00:13:06,190 truth. I mean, I can say that now. But then an amazing thing happened. The 218 00:13:06,190 --> 00:13:10,030 third and fourth round. Well, over half my teachers at the end of the visit 219 00:13:10,030 --> 00:13:13,510 would say, craig, okay, okay, okay. But what can I get better at 220 00:13:14,550 --> 00:13:17,830 now? I didn't know this till years later when I realized that I sort of 221 00:13:17,830 --> 00:13:21,560 developed this thing that was trust. So now we wait until the 222 00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:25,360 fourth time, but even then, when we give feedback, like, 223 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,840 as school leaders, we're notorious for being horrible at giving 224 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,080 feedback. Like, if we were to say what we want teachers to do to students 225 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,640 and then what we do to them, the hypocrisy is astounding. It's like, 226 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,440 hey, I want you to get better at your feedback. And like, just 227 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,280 leave it like that. Or and here's an article. But we would 228 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,440 never say to a third grader, listen, those 229 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:51,280 multiplication. That needs some work. Okay, we would never just say 230 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,920 that. Or, and here's a times table. I'll see you in a month. Right? But 231 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,600 that's what we tend to do. So now we provide genuine 232 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,280 support with you. We, we sit down, we work with you. We'll 233 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,680 say, let's, let's, like, we ask permission first to offer a 234 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:09,320 suggestion that's enormous. It makes a big difference because people 235 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,150 don't want to be told. They always say, yes, but then we work 236 00:14:13,230 --> 00:14:16,350 through with you. We say, let's bring up a lesson. Let's look at it. Let's. 237 00:14:16,350 --> 00:14:20,030 Here's, here's some strategies. Which one of these strategies would work? 238 00:14:20,190 --> 00:14:22,990 Would, Would you like me to model it for you? Do you want to co. 239 00:14:22,990 --> 00:14:25,990 Teach it? Do you want me to watch you? And when, when you do it 240 00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:29,510 like that, and it's genuine support, it really, really moves the 241 00:14:29,510 --> 00:14:32,830 needle. And people want to grow and they want to get better. Yeah. 242 00:14:33,390 --> 00:14:37,190 You're giving them a nutshell. Yes. That's bloody brilliant, mate. 243 00:14:37,190 --> 00:14:40,980 You, you're getting them to make the decision. You're not telling them, like, it's 244 00:14:40,980 --> 00:14:44,340 it's very clever in that way because like you said, no one wants to be 245 00:14:44,340 --> 00:14:47,980 told to do something. But because you've got the trust and you're giving them options, 246 00:14:47,980 --> 00:14:51,140 you're actually making them feel safe as well. And when you've got that trust and 247 00:14:51,140 --> 00:14:54,060 they feel safe, that's when the magic happens. Mate, mate, 248 00:14:55,420 --> 00:14:58,420 I've got my pen and my notepad here, Craig. And I've been taking notes as 249 00:14:58,420 --> 00:15:02,220 a parent and as a sports coach and you've absolutely blown my mind on 250 00:15:02,220 --> 00:15:05,520 how simple it is. And I'm an infinite learner and 251 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,000 you've literally just taught me in the space of about seven minutes there, that 252 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,520 grab of how I can improve myself as a dad 253 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,640 but also as a sports coach. And so I'm taking what you've just taken out 254 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,360 of the classroom and everyone listening out there, especially, 255 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,920 like I could coach my kids under Sevens Soccer this evening, 256 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,720 right. And I am useless. This is something I'm working on. Put my hand 257 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,510 up at not making everything a teachable moment and even with my kids 258 00:15:31,510 --> 00:15:35,270 as well. And thank you because I'm now going to make sure that the. 259 00:15:35,270 --> 00:15:39,110 The first section of my session tonight is just gonna be fun 260 00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:42,510 and no teaching and just positive prose, no matter what 261 00:15:42,510 --> 00:15:45,830 happens. And don't try and correct technique and those sorts of bits and pieces. 262 00:15:47,190 --> 00:15:50,590 And for everyone out there, if you're coaching your parent, be 263 00:15:50,590 --> 00:15:54,190 intentional with that, right. Like have days upon days where you go, right. I'm not 264 00:15:54,190 --> 00:15:58,010 going to give any instructional thinking. I'm just going to give positive praise 265 00:15:58,010 --> 00:16:01,610 and harp on the strengths and the effort and the endeavor and 266 00:16:01,610 --> 00:16:05,050 wait and be patient for that moment to teach. You know what I mean? So 267 00:16:05,370 --> 00:16:08,810 I think what you're talking about in terms of building trust, then building confidence 268 00:16:08,970 --> 00:16:12,730 in learners can be transferred into. So into every. 269 00:16:12,970 --> 00:16:15,930 That's any aspect of every area of. Life, business, 270 00:16:16,730 --> 00:16:19,610 home, sports, coaching, relationship. Yeah, 271 00:16:20,730 --> 00:16:24,490 man. I'm actually a little bit mind blowing. Thank you. That is awesome. 272 00:16:25,370 --> 00:16:28,870 Did you. When, when you start. Sorry to cut you off. There you go. 273 00:16:29,190 --> 00:16:32,950 Is it. Obviously it makes so much sense. I think the way the 274 00:16:32,950 --> 00:16:36,630 world's working now. You just particularly like looking at sports coaching during, like 275 00:16:36,630 --> 00:16:40,230 it was all autocratic, you know, people just abusing and yelling. And 276 00:16:40,390 --> 00:16:44,150 now it's all about relationships and talking to people and building, leading 277 00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:47,590 with kindness, being empathetic, things like that. Are you finding now 278 00:16:47,750 --> 00:16:51,470 that what you're saying, people absolute, they're like, I 279 00:16:51,470 --> 00:16:53,590 want this now because they know it works. 280 00:16:56,350 --> 00:17:00,070 It's hard. I think in the. I'll 281 00:17:00,070 --> 00:17:03,710 say this every week when we do a training, every time we do a round 282 00:17:03,710 --> 00:17:06,750 because over the week we do 12 or 14 teachers we practice with over the 283 00:17:06,750 --> 00:17:09,430 week. And we always ask the teachers, hey, what do you think of this new 284 00:17:09,430 --> 00:17:13,230 stuff? I mean they're overwhelmed sometimes tears of joy. They're so not used to 285 00:17:13,230 --> 00:17:17,030 having their strengths shared with them. It gets them already thinking about what to do. 286 00:17:17,030 --> 00:17:20,430 The trust, you can see it building right away. The school leaders at the end 287 00:17:20,430 --> 00:17:24,169 of the week they're like, oh my God, this where I've been. So 288 00:17:24,169 --> 00:17:27,569 we get that. But Honestly, in the US 289 00:17:27,649 --> 00:17:31,169 since 2000, really, we've had these hyper 290 00:17:31,489 --> 00:17:35,077 rigorous rubric based models that had 60, 291 00:17:35,181 --> 00:17:38,729 70 different indicators of teaching practice. And it's been 292 00:17:38,729 --> 00:17:42,369 embedded now for a generation, 25 years. We've got 293 00:17:42,369 --> 00:17:45,969 two main studies in the last eight years that say literally no 294 00:17:45,969 --> 00:17:49,649 improvement, it's not working, it's not improving teaching and learning and 295 00:17:49,649 --> 00:17:53,310 worse, it's causing harm, it's causing teachers to lower their sense self 296 00:17:53,310 --> 00:17:56,750 efficacy, be self critical, lower their dis, 297 00:17:56,830 --> 00:18:00,510 increase their dissatisfaction at work. Yet 298 00:18:02,350 --> 00:18:05,950 it's so deeply embedded and change is 299 00:18:05,950 --> 00:18:09,550 so hard and there's state laws about teacher evaluation that 300 00:18:09,870 --> 00:18:13,710 I find, I have conversations and people are like, yes, right away we're 301 00:18:13,710 --> 00:18:16,670 into it. But for a lot of people they're still, 302 00:18:17,310 --> 00:18:20,970 they're afraid. Yeah, yeah. To make the change because 303 00:18:20,970 --> 00:18:24,450 the systems are so deeply embedded and it's 304 00:18:24,450 --> 00:18:28,210 frustrating but you just keep plugging away. Yeah, we're the same over here, 305 00:18:28,210 --> 00:18:31,930 mate. Our educational system has gone just data, data data 306 00:18:32,010 --> 00:18:35,690 mad instead of bad and gone just in almost like 307 00:18:35,690 --> 00:18:39,450 three week blocks. Now you've got to get through this amount of content in three 308 00:18:39,450 --> 00:18:42,970 weeks and it has to be graded and, and you then use that data to 309 00:18:42,970 --> 00:18:46,760 drive your next, you know, approach. It's burning teachers 310 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,360 out. It's, it's not fun. There's no, there's no flexibility. 311 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,880 I mean there's no, you can't bring your own personality to the floor. It's just, 312 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,080 you know, hammer, hammer, hammer. And we're now starting to see a little bit of 313 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,880 a shift to what we call connection before content. 314 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,400 So that, that real shift in, in the educational system and I think at the 315 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,960 wider world too, but definitely education about just being intentional with 316 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:11,890 sacrificing, you know, five, ten minutes of your class time to build connection 317 00:19:11,890 --> 00:19:15,490 before you get into your content, which we're all about, which we love. So it's 318 00:19:15,490 --> 00:19:19,250 helped, definitely helping us. But is that apparent over there? Is it 319 00:19:19,330 --> 00:19:23,170 you picking that up in the States? I mean 320 00:19:23,170 --> 00:19:27,010 look, when I'm in classes, I teach teachers that do amazing stuff with 321 00:19:27,010 --> 00:19:29,970 relationship. You can tell they built it from day one. You can tell it's happening 322 00:19:29,970 --> 00:19:33,410 every day. It might necessarily be not, might not be five or 10 minutes at 323 00:19:33,410 --> 00:19:37,130 the beginning, but it's embedded in what they're doing. And I'll see school leaders 324 00:19:37,130 --> 00:19:40,370 that I can tell that that's, I mean, look, right now the people that are 325 00:19:40,370 --> 00:19:43,870 saying yes to me, those are already the right emotionally intell people. So 326 00:19:44,030 --> 00:19:46,350 you know, we're at the choir point. But 327 00:19:48,350 --> 00:19:49,070 I see, 328 00:19:52,190 --> 00:19:55,510 I see a lot of talk about it, but then I see 329 00:19:55,510 --> 00:19:59,229 administrations can't helping themselves like the central officer at the district 330 00:19:59,230 --> 00:20:03,070 office. Like they get obsessed with the scores and the data or they, 331 00:20:03,150 --> 00:20:06,790 or they, or they're afraid themselves of maybe the school board 332 00:20:06,790 --> 00:20:10,410 and being upset with the school board. But it's like you're either performance 333 00:20:10,490 --> 00:20:13,850 based or you're learning based. I was listening to an Adam Grant thing and he 334 00:20:13,850 --> 00:20:17,570 was talking about in performance based cultures, you're so worried about the 335 00:20:17,570 --> 00:20:21,210 outcome that what ends up happening is creativity and innovation 336 00:20:21,210 --> 00:20:25,010 gets stifled because people are afraid to get it wrong. But when you 337 00:20:25,010 --> 00:20:28,330 have a learning culture, it's okay to make mistakes. 338 00:20:29,050 --> 00:20:31,570 And then I'll keep trying and then I'll get better. And so I think what 339 00:20:31,570 --> 00:20:35,130 we're really is deeply embedded, really for the last 25 years 340 00:20:35,130 --> 00:20:38,960 is performance based culture. And we have to move 341 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,760 more towards learning based culture. Not that people aren't talking about it, but it's 342 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,440 still way too pervasive. The thing is, if you think 343 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,000 about learning based culture and you operate in a learning based culture, the performance 344 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,920 will show, it will grow. But if you work in a performance based 345 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,400 culture, the learning won't grow. It's like, it's 346 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,000 counterintuitive. Yeah, 100%. 347 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,160 I'm coming over to North Carolina, Asheville in a couple of 348 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,940 weeks. Is there anything I should know about? Because I lead 349 00:21:08,940 --> 00:21:11,540 with fun. Is that 350 00:21:12,580 --> 00:21:16,340 any tips for you? I'm keynoting The National Institute 351 00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:20,740 2025 conference is leading with fun 352 00:21:20,820 --> 00:21:24,340 something that will resonate with a lot of, 353 00:21:24,740 --> 00:21:28,500 a lot of us educators? Yeah, no, I, 354 00:21:28,580 --> 00:21:31,950 I think so for sure. I mean, I think, I mean, plus why they're having 355 00:21:31,950 --> 00:21:34,310 you out because they know that's what you guys are about. So that's what they 356 00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:37,510 want. Right. So. And you're going to be an astronaut. You're going to be in 357 00:21:37,510 --> 00:21:41,310 a cool place to start with. So. No, I think people, people, I 358 00:21:41,310 --> 00:21:44,670 mean, look, does anybody get excited about when you ask that Initial 359 00:21:44,670 --> 00:21:48,430 icebreaker. Nobody's excited about it at the beginning but then usually once 360 00:21:48,430 --> 00:21:51,190 they're into it, they do it. But, but no, people 361 00:21:52,630 --> 00:21:56,070 like what you guys are talking about play and what you all are about. Like 362 00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:00,920 people realize that people know the value of that. Has 363 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,680 early education become too academic and less play and would be 364 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,880 better in my opinion if we went to more play based and would that set 365 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,680 kids up for better academic success down the road? For sure. 366 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,440 But I mean, geez, we're human beings, we want laughter in our life. 367 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,080 We know play is laughter. Right. So yeah, I 368 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,800 don't, don't worry about that. You guys are going to be good. Yeah. I've got 369 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,560 a random question for you, Craig. Obviously you've got a company called Trust Based 370 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,980 Observations. What's your relationship like with trust? 371 00:22:30,220 --> 00:22:34,060 So not, not your business relationship, your personal, let's take the business hat 372 00:22:34,060 --> 00:22:37,900 off our business cards, not who we are. What's your relationship like with trust 373 00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:41,340 in your own life? Have you burnt it before? Have you been burnt? Fill me 374 00:22:41,340 --> 00:22:42,620 in. I want to know a bit about you. 375 00:22:45,020 --> 00:22:48,780 That's a deep question. It is a deep question. Bloody glad 376 00:22:48,780 --> 00:22:52,340 I didn't ask that. Sorry, I gotta go. It's been nice chat 377 00:22:52,340 --> 00:22:56,050 guys. Well, 378 00:22:56,050 --> 00:22:59,730 I mean obviously I, I, I'm not perfect. I 379 00:22:59,730 --> 00:23:03,330 fail too in, in places in my life but, but, 380 00:23:03,490 --> 00:23:07,130 but I try to live it and have I been 381 00:23:07,130 --> 00:23:10,769 burned? Yeah, I've been burned by stuff in my life and, and, 382 00:23:11,650 --> 00:23:15,410 and man, sometimes it stings and sometimes it stays and, and 383 00:23:16,610 --> 00:23:20,410 that's the thing about trust. It's so, it's so hard 384 00:23:20,410 --> 00:23:23,490 to build and it takes time and time and it has to be consistent and, 385 00:23:23,490 --> 00:23:27,300 and if you've, if you've built enough you can make a mistake. And 386 00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:31,060 like using our analogy, that tip that jar over and I think you'd be 387 00:23:31,060 --> 00:23:33,500 able to pick a lot of them up but some are going to slip under 388 00:23:33,500 --> 00:23:37,220 the, under the, under the sofa. Right. And some are going to go into heater 389 00:23:37,220 --> 00:23:40,020 vent and you're going to have to work to build some of that stuff up 390 00:23:40,020 --> 00:23:43,660 again. And, but if you do it, you know, more than 391 00:23:43,660 --> 00:23:47,420 once, I mean it's. Just, Yeah, I just, 392 00:23:48,060 --> 00:23:51,580 and let's be honest, as human beings, I'm a firm believe that every single one 393 00:23:51,580 --> 00:23:55,260 of us have made a mistake at some stage. Everyone, like, come on, like every 394 00:23:55,260 --> 00:23:58,920 single one of us. However, so many people, when points once 395 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,600 someone burns them once so to speak or get something wrong, 396 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,800 they don't forgive that easily and sometimes they've moved themselves in 397 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,680 that world of trust, even though they've broken themselves. 398 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,480 That's a hard thing too. Right. Because we. Sometimes it can 399 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,320 be hard to forgive. Right. And. But sometimes I think we end up just 400 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,960 punishing ourselves too much with forgiveness. And. And 401 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,680 maybe it's. Maybe sometimes it's not forgiving, maybe it's accepting, you know, or 402 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,400 whatever. And depending on the severity of what 403 00:24:30,020 --> 00:24:33,660 someone has done or whatever. Or what you've done. But I 404 00:24:33,660 --> 00:24:37,380 mean, we all live in glass houses. That's for d. We 405 00:24:37,380 --> 00:24:41,060 do, don't we? You are speaking our language here, mate. I know I'm not different 406 00:24:41,060 --> 00:24:44,780 sides of the world, but I, I'm intrigued. I love going to 407 00:24:44,780 --> 00:24:48,300 obviously do a lot of work internationally. Paul's starting to do a bit with me 408 00:24:48,300 --> 00:24:52,100 as well. Where's the. Where's the best place that you taught? I know 409 00:24:52,260 --> 00:24:56,100 obviously multiple continents when you were principal. I know it's 410 00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:59,810 hard to pick one, but did you have a favorite place? Because international teaching, 411 00:25:00,050 --> 00:25:03,850 it's vigorous, it's full on, but it's also an amazing 412 00:25:03,850 --> 00:25:07,010 experience. Fun. It's an amazing experience for sure. 413 00:25:07,570 --> 00:25:11,010 Oh, man. I mean, you don't want to slide a place. I mean, one 414 00:25:11,250 --> 00:25:15,090 like places like the Middle east has great food, Korea has great food. Like 415 00:25:15,090 --> 00:25:18,210 for food. Those two places are the best. But I mean, I don't know if 416 00:25:18,210 --> 00:25:20,970 I can say one or the other. The top two places to me were when 417 00:25:20,970 --> 00:25:24,450 I was in Warsaw and Poland, you saw that classic European 418 00:25:24,850 --> 00:25:28,690 old town kind of feel. And I always say any place that has beer 419 00:25:28,690 --> 00:25:32,390 gardens, on bike paths, baths. It'S a good, good, 420 00:25:32,390 --> 00:25:36,190 good be too very nice beers. They're two. They're 421 00:25:36,190 --> 00:25:39,910 two. Drafts are delicious. Oh, they do. They do for sure. And 422 00:25:39,910 --> 00:25:43,550 then. But Brazil, I mean, come on. Brazil is. 423 00:25:45,549 --> 00:25:49,150 We were in a city in Brazil that other Brazilians would say, oh, 424 00:25:49,790 --> 00:25:53,310 Cura was the city, like city of 3 million people nobody's ever heard of. 425 00:25:53,550 --> 00:25:57,150 And they would say, oh, kurichibanos are so cold. And all I could think is, 426 00:25:57,150 --> 00:26:00,650 like, if these are the cold Brazilians, because they're the 427 00:26:00,650 --> 00:26:03,890 warmest, nicest people I've ever met. Like 428 00:26:03,890 --> 00:26:07,610 Brazilians. And then, you know, like Brazilian beaches. Or you go 429 00:26:07,610 --> 00:26:09,330 to Rio for the weekend. I mean. 430 00:26:11,730 --> 00:26:15,010 We'Re picking up what you put down. That's about it. Well, 431 00:26:15,410 --> 00:26:19,010 I'm really intrigued. So all the world travel done in teaching was 432 00:26:19,010 --> 00:26:22,810 that. Was it. Was it with a partner? Was with your family? Was 433 00:26:22,810 --> 00:26:26,530 it pre family? Was it young? Was it intentional? Did you set out going? 434 00:26:26,530 --> 00:26:29,730 I want to go and see the world and, and 435 00:26:29,810 --> 00:26:33,490 explore my you know, my, my profession, or did it just happen by 436 00:26:33,490 --> 00:26:37,010 chance? How did it all come about? How did you travel the world and 437 00:26:37,010 --> 00:26:40,370 teach everywhere? I mean, I think I've always followed passions 438 00:26:41,330 --> 00:26:43,330 in terms of my work and, 439 00:26:45,090 --> 00:26:48,290 and it was just at the time my wife and I, 440 00:26:48,850 --> 00:26:52,690 our kids were entering kindergarten and we just, we talked about 441 00:26:52,690 --> 00:26:55,690 it on our first date and then we thought, well, let's do it. And you 442 00:26:55,690 --> 00:26:58,450 went to a job fair and then did it. And then where you end up 443 00:26:58,450 --> 00:27:02,170 from place to place after that is just, you know, that's just. Kisma, you can't, 444 00:27:02,170 --> 00:27:04,770 you, you can't decide. I only want to go here. It doesn't work like that. 445 00:27:04,770 --> 00:27:08,090 So, like, I would never have chosen to live in Saudi Arabia, but, you know, 446 00:27:08,250 --> 00:27:12,090 it was good for two years and so. Yeah, but it was. I'll tell 447 00:27:12,090 --> 00:27:15,610 you this, that the experience was amazing. My kids 448 00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:19,860 are true global citizens. The way they think the way, 449 00:27:20,340 --> 00:27:23,180 the way they. We live in the Middle East. We went to this school with 450 00:27:23,180 --> 00:27:26,980 displaced Palestinians and so their vision on the world 451 00:27:27,620 --> 00:27:31,300 is so much more mature than their. I have twins that are 23 452 00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:34,980 right now, I'll tell you. We came back their junior year in high school 453 00:27:35,220 --> 00:27:38,660 and it was their 17th birthday in January, and I said, what do you guys 454 00:27:38,660 --> 00:27:41,260 want to do? They said, we just want to take the day off. We want 455 00:27:41,260 --> 00:27:45,030 to go play in Seattle. Like, great. And they said, oh, and that night 456 00:27:45,030 --> 00:27:48,670 there's a lecture at the University of Washington on the Arab Israeli conflict and we 457 00:27:48,670 --> 00:27:49,470 want to go to that. 458 00:27:52,350 --> 00:27:55,990 Oh, that is amazing because that's a question to have for you, me 459 00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:58,990 included in this statement. I think so many human beings are really, 460 00:28:00,590 --> 00:28:04,430 really concerned and worried about pulling their kids out of 461 00:28:04,430 --> 00:28:08,270 school with their mates, with their friends and then going to do that travel thing. 462 00:28:08,750 --> 00:28:12,470 For me, we would. We're in that mindset of let's get them through primary 463 00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:16,140 school first before you consider, you know, turning their world upside 464 00:28:16,140 --> 00:28:19,780 down. Because you want them to have a, a bit of a balanced and set, 465 00:28:20,180 --> 00:28:23,140 you know, routine and friendship groups and, and they're safe. 466 00:28:24,020 --> 00:28:27,860 Would you say stuff that and throw the window and, and they'll be just 467 00:28:27,860 --> 00:28:31,460 fine. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's all international or. International, 468 00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:35,700 but here's what I'll say. It's actually, it's easier when they're earlier. I mean, right, 469 00:28:35,700 --> 00:28:39,460 they just go along with you. You're their security blankets. Sure, they're friends, but, 470 00:28:39,780 --> 00:28:42,420 but they'll come home and they'll see them in the holidays still. And 471 00:28:43,460 --> 00:28:47,180 especially you've been in the same place the whole time. But now it's easy. 472 00:28:47,180 --> 00:28:50,500 The early moves were harder. Like when he moved when they were in middle school. 473 00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:54,340 Yeah, they weren't so happy with us. I can imagine. 474 00:28:54,580 --> 00:28:58,380 But even now, I mean, they're so grateful now. They weren't always in 475 00:28:58,380 --> 00:29:01,940 the moment for it, but no, when you're early and I mean, 476 00:29:01,940 --> 00:29:05,220 honestly, that story of my kids, like who 477 00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:09,630 to be thinking like that and so, and 478 00:29:09,630 --> 00:29:12,790 it's. Oh man, it's a fun life. Yeah. And are they now, if you don't 479 00:29:12,790 --> 00:29:16,110 mind me asking, are your kids now jet setters? Are they, are they travelers? Do 480 00:29:16,110 --> 00:29:19,590 they, have they got the bug? My daughter went to school in London at King's 481 00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:23,430 College and she's there right now and she's graduated and 482 00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:27,030 she's attending bar for a couple years before she does grad school. But 483 00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:31,190 because of a certain person in the White House, she will not do grad 484 00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:34,430 school in the United States. She doesn't want to have anything to do with her 485 00:29:34,430 --> 00:29:35,750 country. And I don't blame her 486 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,600 tipping my hand there. And they would, 487 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,480 they would both probably consider themselves Marxists. 488 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,480 They're 23. But, but they. And my 489 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,280 son is, he just finished his first year of teaching at a severe 490 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,080 behavior school and that was. One year was enough of that. 491 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,800 But I can tell he's got the international school teaching bug and, and I 492 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,600 wouldn't be surprised to see that happen in his life too. Yeah, I love that. 493 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,360 And it's such a cool profession, you can take it anywhere, isn't it? It is 494 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,000 such a cool profession. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Yeah, 495 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,240 it's wild as well. So Craig, when you look back and obviously 496 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,360 pretty impressive story, mate. Like, you've got a great resume, you've seen the 497 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,040 world, you've impacted so many people. Do you ever sit back and think what you're 498 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,440 most proud of? Like, is it what you've created? You know, if you trust based 499 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,920 observation? Because that first 10 minutes where we were just 500 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,720 listening, I was just in awe, man. It wasn't about, you know, the 501 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,400 schools, the teachers that we work with, the students. I was thinking as me, as 502 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,800 an individual, how I treat people. And I know Paul's the same, 503 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,600 particularly we've got younger kids, so trust is so important. And the way you 504 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,720 were speaking, it just hit home with me. Are you, are you really proud of 505 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,520 what you've created and that you're sharing with other people and allowing and more importantly, 506 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,440 to feel safe and empowered? 507 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,120 Yeah, I mean, I feel awkward talking about that. Please 508 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,800 don't it's look, I didn't know I was creating 509 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,320 it. If I'd known what the problem was and tried to figure out, oh, this 510 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,960 is how to solve it, I don't think I could have done it. But it 511 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,320 just evolved from the really the guy that was when I was in my principal 512 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,160 certification program that run our program. Ran our program and it evolved and evolved and 513 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,800 evolved. And then at a certain point somebody actually said, 514 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,280 Craig, you need to protect your work. When I was in Brazil, the elementary principal 515 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,360 and I didn't even know what he was talking about, he said, you created something, 516 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,040 you don't want somebody to steal it. And I was just like, oh, thanks. And 517 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,700 then I thought I should present at a conference and it went really well. And 518 00:31:32,700 --> 00:31:35,540 then I thought I should write an article and it went really well. And then 519 00:31:36,020 --> 00:31:39,020 we ended up coming home and I thought I'm going to try and turn it 520 00:31:39,020 --> 00:31:42,100 into a book. And so one creating a book and 521 00:31:42,260 --> 00:31:46,020 persevering through a book. I am proud of that because it's hard and, 522 00:31:46,180 --> 00:31:49,940 but I feel more than proud. I think I just 523 00:31:49,940 --> 00:31:53,700 feel lucky because I have a mission in life. Like now 524 00:31:53,780 --> 00:31:57,260 till the day like people, I've got friends that are nearing 525 00:31:57,260 --> 00:32:00,980 retirement and I'm like, why would I go golf? I mean every week 526 00:32:00,980 --> 00:32:04,540 I get to go and have this impact and I know it's, it's 527 00:32:04,540 --> 00:32:08,060 making a difference in the lives of teachers, it's making a difference in the lives 528 00:32:08,060 --> 00:32:11,580 of school leaders which I hope is trickling down into the lives of students. 529 00:32:11,580 --> 00:32:15,100 And so I, I'm proud of that. But 530 00:32:15,100 --> 00:32:18,940 mostly I feel just, I feel really lucky that I, I'm 531 00:32:18,940 --> 00:32:22,580 not sure everybody gets to have a mission and I won't 532 00:32:22,580 --> 00:32:25,940 retire. I, maybe I'll slow down. But this is my, this is, my goal is 533 00:32:25,940 --> 00:32:29,500 to change the world of teacher observation. So purpose. Yeah. You've got a 534 00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:33,240 purpose. Yeah. Is there any animos? Because over here 535 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,880 I don't, I don't believe there's anything. Well, I worked in the education game 536 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,400 for 18 odd years and never did we have an external organization 537 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,200 come in to sort of observe or you know, do peer sort of teaching, 538 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,760 whatever it might be. Was there anything like that before 539 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,600 trust based observations came about or was it all internal in our schools? Over here 540 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,440 it's all peer to peer, colleague to colleague. I'll buddy up with Dale, 541 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,120 he works with me, he'll come in and observe me, teach gives me some feedback, 542 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,860 vice versa. That's the system over here. But yeah. Did 543 00:33:03,860 --> 00:33:07,540 you find, was that already set up the external organizations coming to schools 544 00:33:07,540 --> 00:33:11,140 or. Well, I mean there have been models and, and so since 545 00:33:11,140 --> 00:33:14,900 those like the Danielson and Marzano are the two biggest models in the 546 00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:18,500 US and like, so for the last 25 years, you know, I'm not sure before 547 00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:22,060 that really, it was maybe less formal before that, 548 00:33:22,220 --> 00:33:25,940 but it's been like the peer to peer thing. Like I have no 549 00:33:25,940 --> 00:33:29,750 problem with the peer to peer thing, but I think it's, 550 00:33:29,750 --> 00:33:31,430 I think it's incomplete because 551 00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:38,030 every single week when I'm training a school, someone somewhere will say, 552 00:33:38,030 --> 00:33:41,670 hey Craig, what about this? What about that? Sometimes it'll be a tiny little thing, 553 00:33:41,830 --> 00:33:45,270 sometimes it'll be a thing that will dramatically improve trust based 554 00:33:45,270 --> 00:33:48,950 observations. And so I'm the guy that developed this thing 555 00:33:48,950 --> 00:33:52,390 and I have so many blind spots that 556 00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:56,230 every single week I'm training a school, I, I learned something 557 00:33:56,230 --> 00:33:59,830 new that makes for a better product. And so I think the 558 00:34:00,870 --> 00:34:04,510 thing that's missing from peer to peer is oftentimes it's 559 00:34:04,510 --> 00:34:07,710 what do I want to work on. And it's great what I want to work 560 00:34:07,710 --> 00:34:10,870 on on myself, but I'm not aware of my blind spots. 561 00:34:11,429 --> 00:34:15,150 And so if we've got something that's in a trust based way, it's helping 562 00:34:15,150 --> 00:34:18,870 to tackle, tackle all of our blind spots or our blind 563 00:34:18,870 --> 00:34:22,590 spots. I think that adds extra value in. Terms of what we're doing. I love 564 00:34:22,590 --> 00:34:26,160 it. And in that peer to peer model, you're not taking the learnings from every 565 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,800 single other school or every other teacher from across the 566 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,880 country. You know what I mean? Those learnings that you've taken along the way, you 567 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,360 just, you know, you get, you get your blinkers on, don't you get your blinkers 568 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,280 of your school on and what's happening within your school. And I think with the 569 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,520 peer to peer model, you're almost a little bit worried about upsetting the apple cart 570 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,800 because you've got to work with them every single day, right? A little bit. I 571 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,960 think, you know, one of the things in our form that I'm really, that I 572 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,760 am proud about is we have, for each of the nine areas of pedagogy, 573 00:34:52,620 --> 00:34:56,020 we have hyperlinks. So you hit this thing and it brings you, here's all these 574 00:34:56,020 --> 00:34:59,860 actionable articles on, on this area of pedagogy. Here's all. So now 575 00:34:59,860 --> 00:35:03,220 all of a sudden I've given you a wealth of information right at your 576 00:35:03,220 --> 00:35:06,780 fingertips. So as a teacher or a leader, I can tap right into 577 00:35:06,780 --> 00:35:10,500 that in a way that feels safe. Maybe if I'm less Comfortable digging into 578 00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:13,900 it in front of others. Love that. That is brilliant. So we know you're not 579 00:35:13,900 --> 00:35:17,220 going to slow down. We get that narrow time, the cards. But for the life 580 00:35:17,220 --> 00:35:20,780 of Craig, what's next? So you've developed a business, you're loving life. 581 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,640 No golf, we know that. Pizza's on the card. What else, what else, what else 582 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,360 in your world, mate? What are you looking forward to? What's coming up? Oh, 583 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,160 I mean I'm dealing with a publishing thing to try and get a new publisher, 584 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,000 but more books. Writing is 585 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,200 hard and I don't think I always like it because it's so hard. 586 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,560 But kind of like you were saying earlier though, people are like, well what about 587 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,040 like trust based for like supervisors and schools to into 588 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,440 do supervision with other supervisors? What about for coaches? What 589 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,040 about. So I think those are some of the things. And then I'm just 590 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,720 working to grow it and spread the word. So it. Yeah, I mean my goal 591 00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:01,800 is to change the world. I'm not, I'm not saying that in the littlest way. 592 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,480 I'm saying it in the biggest way possible. So it's just, it's 593 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,240 all really, it's all in the same framework and opportunities come when you see like 594 00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:12,760 we've got people in India, Pakistan and Korea saying of hey, could we do it 595 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,300 here? And you know, in that language. And so we're trying to figure out how 596 00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:19,260 do we make that happen and that kind of thing. I love that, I love 597 00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:22,780 that. Now people listening episode number 366 can go to 598 00:36:22,780 --> 00:36:25,580 trustbase.com obviously that's where they can reach out. 599 00:36:26,620 --> 00:36:29,859 Obviously. We've got quite a lot of international listeners that aren't all in the States, 600 00:36:29,859 --> 00:36:33,220 Craig. So they can go in there, get your book. They can still reach out 601 00:36:33,220 --> 00:36:36,860 to you. Obviously you said you thinking about expanding or things like that. 602 00:36:37,260 --> 00:36:40,630 Is that the best way is to reach you? Yeah, for sure. Just you can. 603 00:36:40,630 --> 00:36:44,270 There's a contact button somewhere on there they can do. Or just 604 00:36:44,270 --> 00:36:48,070 craigrustbase.com either way, done. Yeah, love that. I love it 605 00:36:48,070 --> 00:36:51,710 from the bottom of my heart, honestly. Thank you. I've. I love a podcast when 606 00:36:51,710 --> 00:36:53,990 I can take something out of it that I can put into my own life. 607 00:36:56,310 --> 00:36:59,150 But I love it. I love it. Yeah. 100. But if I'm doing that then 608 00:36:59,150 --> 00:37:01,910 everyone listening out there who's a parent or a sports coach or just another human 609 00:37:01,910 --> 00:37:05,590 being can also do that. Right. So honestly, thank you. 610 00:37:05,590 --> 00:37:08,350 Huge tick for this one for me because I'm literally going to take something from 611 00:37:08,350 --> 00:37:12,190 this and put into Practice straight away in about seven hours time. 612 00:37:13,150 --> 00:37:15,350 And I'm also going to do it with my own kids at home. So honestly, 613 00:37:15,350 --> 00:37:18,910 mate, thank you for just that little snippet of those golden nuggets 614 00:37:19,230 --> 00:37:22,670 of. Was it for the first four visits you don't give any. 615 00:37:23,710 --> 00:37:26,550 Not on the fourth visit. Yeah, not until the fourth visit is when then you 616 00:37:26,550 --> 00:37:30,230 start asking for permission to give some feedback. And I 617 00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:33,310 would have never have gone down that pathway. Not four visits. I wouldn't have been 618 00:37:33,310 --> 00:37:36,830 that patient to wait that long. And I would have thought sometimes you. Have to 619 00:37:36,830 --> 00:37:40,630 bite your tongue. All human beings and parents in particularly, 620 00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:44,310 but especially parents and sports coaches, they all think, right, my role here 621 00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:48,270 is to teach and is to improve. Yeah, and 622 00:37:48,270 --> 00:37:52,070 change. But let them, let them. But it is your, it is your 623 00:37:52,070 --> 00:37:55,710 role. But it's. But what's the best way to achieve success in 624 00:37:55,710 --> 00:37:59,430 that. That's what I mean. And honestly, you've now changed my philosophy. The rest of 625 00:37:59,430 --> 00:38:02,790 my life. I will not forget this because he will change them. But the way 626 00:38:02,950 --> 00:38:06,630 most people do, it doesn't change them. Yeah, because they end up rebelling. 627 00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:09,470 Because it's not them. The ones that are making the change or they think they 628 00:38:09,470 --> 00:38:13,240 are. This way allows that to occur. In all honesty, I'm picturing two of my 629 00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:17,000 players and reflecting now upon this. I've knocked the confidence 630 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,160 out of them. You know what I mean? That's, that's what I've done a little 631 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,360 bit and I've had to now really work the last few weeks. I put my 632 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,240 hand that and go, ah, I've knocked the confidence out of them. And it'd be 633 00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:29,800 the same with teachers, right, or employees if you go straight in for, 634 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,280 hey, that was good. You know, the positive, negative, positive sandwich you spoke about, they 635 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,720 see through that. It can tend to knock the confidence out of people and then 636 00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:39,640 it's really hard to get that trust. And that confidence takes a lot more. Work 637 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,950 than waiting for the morph. Is it? Yeah. 638 00:38:43,710 --> 00:38:47,390 Well, mate, we two people here, we really appreciate your 639 00:38:47,390 --> 00:38:51,230 time today. If you can help our listeners a fraction of what you've 640 00:38:51,230 --> 00:38:53,830 been able to do for both of us because light bulbs are going off in 641 00:38:53,830 --> 00:38:57,550 our little pinheads here. I'll tell you what, mate, we are. I'm 642 00:38:57,550 --> 00:39:01,190 loving that. I'm soaked. Thank you so much, mate. And just 643 00:39:01,190 --> 00:39:05,030 think you are making a difference. So if anyone has been 644 00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:08,720 exactly impacted like us both sitting here today, taking notes, been 645 00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:12,400 just so blown away by how simple it can be, but also how wrong 646 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,160 we've probably been doing it, reach out to Craig, thank him, because, 647 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,000 you know, that's what we. We all need praise and we all love that 648 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,280 along the way and. And when you have a purpose that gives you the fire, 649 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,800 the flame to keep going and, you know, more books, like you said in the 650 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,040 race. So, Craig, thank you so much for your time, mate. What a 651 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,000 powerful episode. Really appreciate it. Yeah, awesome. Thanks, Craig. Thanks, 652 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,160 gentlemen. Had a great time.