WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:05.965 --> 00:00:06.495 Adam Hatcher: Hey there. 00:00:06.555 --> 00:00:11.865 Welcome to the 21 Clear Podcast where we talk about anything to help you 00:00:11.865 --> 00:00:14.475 chaos proof your family business. 00:00:15.090 --> 00:00:21.750 I'm your host, Adam Hatcher, the founder of 21 Clear, and today is part two of our 00:00:21.750 --> 00:00:24.540 interview with Melissa Mitchell, Blitch. 00:00:24.990 --> 00:00:28.740 Melissa wrote the book in the Company of Family, how to Thrive 00:00:28.770 --> 00:00:30.990 when Business is Personal. 00:00:31.230 --> 00:00:34.800 And our last episode, Melissa, introduced a concept. 00:00:35.412 --> 00:00:37.032 Called boundaries. 00:00:37.422 --> 00:00:40.032 What is this idea of boundaries? 00:00:40.062 --> 00:00:42.522 How does it relate to family businesses? 00:00:42.882 --> 00:00:46.752 This is an idea I wish had been explained to me far earlier in my 00:00:46.752 --> 00:00:51.612 family journey, family business journey than I had it in this episode. 00:00:51.612 --> 00:00:57.402 There was one idea in Melissa's book that I wanted to get into with her. 00:00:57.762 --> 00:01:01.482 She has several principles of boundaries in a family business, 00:01:01.602 --> 00:01:03.852 and one of them was flexibility. 00:01:04.662 --> 00:01:09.822 So we're going to explain what flexibility in a family business is, and we talked 00:01:09.822 --> 00:01:11.442 about that a bit in the last episode. 00:01:11.442 --> 00:01:14.802 So we're gonna revisit it and then we're gonna do three things. 00:01:15.102 --> 00:01:19.512 Three things for you to think about, whether it's advice or stories. 00:01:19.692 --> 00:01:23.562 Counsel, three things for you to think about as it relates to 00:01:23.562 --> 00:01:26.052 flexibility in your family company. 00:01:26.622 --> 00:01:29.322 I hope you enjoy the second, sit down with Melissa. 00:01:30.912 --> 00:01:33.462 Melissa, welcome back to the 21 Clear Podcast. 00:01:33.492 --> 00:01:34.842 Uh, here we go again. 00:01:35.712 --> 00:01:36.402 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: Thanks, Adam. 00:01:36.492 --> 00:01:37.092 Let's go. 00:01:37.782 --> 00:01:40.752 Adam Hatcher: So we promised listeners in the last episode we are gonna 00:01:40.752 --> 00:01:46.062 talk about a topic that when I have worked with families, it doesn't 00:01:46.062 --> 00:01:47.952 take long for this one to come up. 00:01:48.762 --> 00:01:51.402 So I spent 13 years in my family company. 00:01:51.402 --> 00:01:55.932 I was the general counsel, I was the head of human resources corporate strategy. 00:01:56.832 --> 00:02:03.642 What you hear in those rules, every one of them is responsible for rules, policies, 00:02:03.642 --> 00:02:08.172 which in the last episode we talked about this idea of boundaries, differentiation 00:02:08.172 --> 00:02:09.672 between one thing and another. 00:02:10.182 --> 00:02:13.062 Both to let good in and keep bad things out. 00:02:13.127 --> 00:02:14.832 Why do you have a vacation policy? 00:02:15.012 --> 00:02:15.912 That's a boundary. 00:02:16.332 --> 00:02:19.272 How many days do you have to be at work during the year? 00:02:19.452 --> 00:02:22.512 And what are the rules when you want to take a day off? 00:02:23.742 --> 00:02:29.052 And you talk in your book, which is in the Company of Family, 00:02:30.162 --> 00:02:32.742 about this idea of companies. 00:02:33.117 --> 00:02:37.257 Have rules and family companies need to understand the concept of 00:02:37.257 --> 00:02:39.567 flexibility 'cause it's inevitable. 00:02:40.437 --> 00:02:45.687 Will you explain this idea of flexibility for the audience? 00:02:46.407 --> 00:02:46.567 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: Mm-hmm. 00:02:47.430 --> 00:02:51.030 We spoke in the last episode about how boundaries are fair, firm, 00:02:51.030 --> 00:02:54.600 and friendly and flexible, and that there's, that, that tension. 00:02:54.600 --> 00:02:55.470 It's a both end. 00:02:55.530 --> 00:02:58.140 Sometimes they're firm, sometimes they're flexible. 00:02:58.200 --> 00:03:02.310 There are times where things happened that we didn't anticipate, 00:03:02.430 --> 00:03:03.300 couldn't have predicted. 00:03:03.330 --> 00:03:08.310 Circumstances did change, and so as clear as policies, procedures, rules, 00:03:08.310 --> 00:03:12.600 as you were just referring to may be sometimes something may happen. 00:03:12.600 --> 00:03:18.630 We're like, oh, that if we actually, if we apply that rule, if we follow that rule, 00:03:18.630 --> 00:03:25.860 that policy, it will create unintended negative consequences that we don't want. 00:03:26.910 --> 00:03:32.070 And so it can be wise to be able to flex at times, but to do so very thoughtfully. 00:03:32.550 --> 00:03:35.460 Because in the previous episode, we talked about a family who 00:03:35.460 --> 00:03:40.260 created a, um, employment policy and then a month later broke it. 00:03:41.880 --> 00:03:45.030 We create those policies and rules because we think they're gonna 00:03:45.030 --> 00:03:46.800 promote good and protect against bad. 00:03:47.070 --> 00:03:50.790 Yes, things can happen that we didn't anticipate, and so it can make sense 00:03:50.790 --> 00:03:56.730 to flex for a situation or to even change the boundary, but to do so 00:03:56.730 --> 00:04:02.130 thoughtfully and, and honestly as opposed to hopefully out of fear. 00:04:02.160 --> 00:04:05.880 I shared an example, uh, of a family that was afraid of hurting 00:04:05.885 --> 00:04:10.200 a, a cousin's feelings, um, afraid of him struggling, you know, 00:04:10.200 --> 00:04:11.880 financially after he was laid off. 00:04:11.880 --> 00:04:16.800 So they hired him, you know, hopefully to do so in a way that continues to promote 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:21.360 good and protect, protect against the bad, and that takes thought and reflection 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:23.010 Adam Hatcher: So. 00:04:23.070 --> 00:04:23.550 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: honesty. 00:04:23.625 --> 00:04:23.985 Adam Hatcher: Yeah. 00:04:24.525 --> 00:04:27.255 Which is conversation like it's talking about. 00:04:27.255 --> 00:04:30.435 Alright, so let's do we. 00:04:30.555 --> 00:04:32.415 Alright, so the idea of flexibility. 00:04:32.415 --> 00:04:36.315 If you've worked with your family, you get this, there are rules, there are 00:04:36.315 --> 00:04:38.805 times you're going to bend around them. 00:04:38.805 --> 00:04:39.075 Oh. 00:04:39.885 --> 00:04:45.795 And if anyone thinks that they don't, when you have a family meeting, do you 00:04:45.795 --> 00:04:50.895 take, do you charge PTO to the family members who work in the company when they 00:04:50.895 --> 00:04:52.575 go to, to one of the family meetings? 00:04:52.755 --> 00:04:55.785 That's not a company meeting, that's a family member meeting. 00:04:55.785 --> 00:04:56.925 A family owner meeting. 00:04:56.925 --> 00:05:00.525 You talk about distinct things, that's an example of flexibility. 00:05:00.555 --> 00:05:04.425 Alright, so what Melissa, uh, what you, what you and I are gonna do, we're gonna 00:05:04.425 --> 00:05:06.945 give families three things to think about. 00:05:07.530 --> 00:05:10.560 Three things to think about with flexibility. 00:05:11.130 --> 00:05:14.580 This might be advice, this might just be interesting thoughts. 00:05:14.580 --> 00:05:16.320 And so Melissa's gonna take the first one. 00:05:16.620 --> 00:05:19.830 I'm gonna take the second one, and then Melissa will close us with the third one. 00:05:19.830 --> 00:05:23.820 So these are three ideas, concepts, thoughts about when you work 00:05:23.820 --> 00:05:27.300 with your family and you have rules and you have guidance. 00:05:27.780 --> 00:05:29.820 Three things to know about flexibility. 00:05:30.090 --> 00:05:31.440 Melissa, what's your first one? 00:05:31.620 --> 00:05:32.040 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: Mm-hmm. 00:05:32.855 --> 00:05:35.915 I already alluded to this, I think without using the actual 00:05:35.915 --> 00:05:38.105 word, and that is consequences. 00:05:38.585 --> 00:05:42.365 What might unintended consequences be? 00:05:43.865 --> 00:05:45.245 And And consequences. 00:05:45.305 --> 00:05:49.535 You know, consequences can be favorable, they can be negative, they can be 00:05:49.535 --> 00:05:51.275 neutral, they can be a mix of things. 00:05:51.275 --> 00:05:56.255 But if we flex on this rule, this policy, this previous decision that 00:05:56.255 --> 00:05:59.795 we made, what might be a natural. 00:06:00.765 --> 00:06:04.875 Unintended undesired consequence, negative consequence that could come 00:06:05.355 --> 00:06:11.175 to this individual to, you know, me as the leader if that's, you know, if I'm 00:06:11.175 --> 00:06:15.615 the sole person making that to us as a company, just to really think it through 00:06:16.425 --> 00:06:22.575 and to think it through not only short term of, with this specific decision 00:06:22.575 --> 00:06:27.555 of to flex or not, but longer term such as, you know, like with this family 00:06:27.555 --> 00:06:34.365 that I spoke about last time, who broke flexed their, um, employment policy. 00:06:35.175 --> 00:06:38.715 What message does that send about other policies? 00:06:38.955 --> 00:06:41.415 Oh, they're not gonna stand firm on it. 00:06:42.375 --> 00:06:48.945 Maybe What light and doubt may that bring to, again, that policy? 00:06:49.365 --> 00:06:52.605 Oh, well, if they're firm with, you know, like the other, another 00:06:52.605 --> 00:06:55.305 cousin who doesn't meet the criteria. 00:06:56.025 --> 00:07:00.015 If they say no to, to him or her, you know what's, what's that about? 00:07:00.015 --> 00:07:05.595 It can just create lots of doubt about the integrity behind the decision. 00:07:07.275 --> 00:07:11.415 It can create doubt about other boundaries, policies to know whether 00:07:11.415 --> 00:07:12.915 they're gonna be firm or flexible. 00:07:13.515 --> 00:07:20.205 So considering the consequences that may result short-term, 00:07:20.325 --> 00:07:26.055 long-term personal enterprise level, how could this work for us? 00:07:26.115 --> 00:07:27.885 How could this work against us if we flex? 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:32.790 Adam Hatcher: I think the idea of consequences matters so much because 00:07:34.380 --> 00:07:38.280 the way you work together and own the company together is family 00:07:39.030 --> 00:07:41.820 is an inner family business, and then you have a company around it. 00:07:41.970 --> 00:07:45.240 If you turn around and sell your company, the company's still there. 00:07:45.510 --> 00:07:48.480 You know, if Chick-fil-A sold, we could all still go get chicken sandwiches. 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:51.390 It's the way the Kathy's work in and own the company together. 00:07:52.245 --> 00:07:53.145 That would be missing. 00:07:53.145 --> 00:07:55.845 The heart of the company is out of the center of it and 00:07:55.845 --> 00:07:57.585 there's something new put in. 00:07:58.515 --> 00:08:03.555 And flexibility matters because there's a company around you that you're responsible 00:08:03.555 --> 00:08:05.805 to as family when you work in the company. 00:08:06.105 --> 00:08:09.855 Um, and this idea of consequences, I imagine you think, well, not just what 00:08:09.855 --> 00:08:13.785 is the consequence to me or maybe to my sister who works with me, but what's the 00:08:13.785 --> 00:08:15.645 downstream consequence to the company? 00:08:16.065 --> 00:08:18.615 Are there any consequences that may flow out to the clients? 00:08:18.615 --> 00:08:20.625 Alright, I'm gonna tell you an embarrassing story 'cause you 00:08:20.625 --> 00:08:23.445 saying consequences brought this up and this was ignorant, Adam. 00:08:23.985 --> 00:08:27.045 I'd like to say I was 28, 29 years old, but I should have known better. 00:08:27.795 --> 00:08:31.275 So, and, and I didn't get what you just said. 00:08:31.335 --> 00:08:32.595 The idea of consequences. 00:08:33.705 --> 00:08:39.225 The family company, my family's company, a staffing and recruiting business has. 00:08:40.095 --> 00:08:42.105 A monthly expense report process. 00:08:42.615 --> 00:08:47.535 And if you are missing a receipt, then you fill out a lost receipt report. 00:08:48.225 --> 00:08:52.215 Well, those lost receipt reports, they were supposed to 00:08:52.215 --> 00:08:56.295 be, uh, used very sparingly. 00:08:56.625 --> 00:08:58.545 People keep up with their receipts. 00:08:59.265 --> 00:09:03.045 I'm kind of fly by the seat of my pants sometimes low detail. 00:09:03.045 --> 00:09:06.495 And I made them almost a standard operating procedure. 00:09:06.975 --> 00:09:12.345 I was the only person in the company that had a company card that was had. 00:09:13.335 --> 00:09:14.415 I was on the, I was the top. 00:09:14.415 --> 00:09:16.665 I had to be the top user of the lost receipts. 00:09:17.595 --> 00:09:20.745 And I remember the day my father called me, 'cause you have to send 00:09:20.745 --> 00:09:22.665 your expense report to your boss. 00:09:22.665 --> 00:09:23.925 And I reported to my dad. 00:09:24.735 --> 00:09:27.855 And so I'll, I'll tell you how you can feel the ending coming. 00:09:27.915 --> 00:09:31.215 And then I'm curious, like, let's tease this idea of consequences out, 00:09:31.875 --> 00:09:34.095 like my father calls me, he goes, Hey. 00:09:34.170 --> 00:09:34.200 Okay. 00:09:35.670 --> 00:09:36.930 the fourth month in a row. 00:09:36.930 --> 00:09:39.750 You've had more lost receipts than receipts. 00:09:40.590 --> 00:09:42.570 You're the only person in the company like that. 00:09:42.570 --> 00:09:48.240 Let me tell you this, the next three, the next three you turn in like that, 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:50.610 I'm taking 'em outta your, I'm taking the amount outta your paycheck. 00:09:51.510 --> 00:09:55.380 Like, oh, like message received. 00:09:55.890 --> 00:09:57.030 Follow, follow. 00:09:57.030 --> 00:10:04.380 The, there is, uh, there's no flexibility to go more into lost receipts. 00:10:04.860 --> 00:10:08.490 But what I didn't realize in that phone call, and I'm sure you can hear 00:10:08.490 --> 00:10:12.660 like help think about me back then, 28, 29, if you and I had known each 00:10:12.660 --> 00:10:16.110 other, you have said, Adam, have you thought about the consequences of this? 00:10:16.110 --> 00:10:17.490 Like how would you have walked me through that? 00:10:19.020 --> 00:10:21.300 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: well, I just wanna say that consequences 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:22.890 are wonderful teachers. 00:10:23.220 --> 00:10:23.730 Adam Hatcher: Right. 00:10:24.150 --> 00:10:26.640 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: You know, if I, if I do something and again, 00:10:26.640 --> 00:10:28.530 outcome, I like, I'll do it again. 00:10:28.530 --> 00:10:31.230 So Adam says, Hey, lost receipt, no big deal. 00:10:31.230 --> 00:10:32.670 Fill out a form, blah, blah, blah. 00:10:32.880 --> 00:10:33.600 I'll do it again. 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:36.355 And he did it again for four months, and then you get a different consequence. 00:10:37.095 --> 00:10:37.935 You got a consequence. 00:10:37.935 --> 00:10:42.345 You didn't want a firm call from dad saying, next time 00:10:42.345 --> 00:10:44.355 it's coming outta your pocket. 00:10:44.925 --> 00:10:50.895 And so it taught you or gave you an opportunity to learn to become 00:10:50.895 --> 00:10:52.695 more responsible with your receipts. 00:10:53.205 --> 00:10:57.405 If I want to be reimbursed, I have a re and avoid this consequence of it coming 00:10:57.405 --> 00:11:01.605 out of my pocket, I have a responsibility to keep up with those receipts. 00:11:01.635 --> 00:11:05.265 It was a wonderful teacher for you that invited you to stretch 00:11:05.325 --> 00:11:08.835 and grow so that you could avoid consequences you didn't want. 00:11:10.050 --> 00:11:13.020 Adam Hatcher: and what I didn't think of as well, because again, 00:11:13.020 --> 00:11:16.500 this, this, at the time I didn't understand this, that I'm in a family 00:11:16.500 --> 00:11:18.030 business working inside a company. 00:11:18.450 --> 00:11:22.620 I didn't think about the downstream effect, like, so the finance 00:11:22.620 --> 00:11:26.040 department would see this, well, they might wonder why. 00:11:26.370 --> 00:11:27.150 I mean, they noticed. 00:11:28.680 --> 00:11:30.030 Well, why does he get to do that? 00:11:30.210 --> 00:11:30.990 Um, are 00:11:30.990 --> 00:11:32.790 there other rules he doesn't have to follow? 00:11:33.090 --> 00:11:35.280 I mean, I thought about, uh, my brother and I worked together for 00:11:35.280 --> 00:11:37.050 about a decade in the family company. 00:11:37.680 --> 00:11:41.310 So what if I keep doing this and my brother finds out, but then there's 00:11:41.310 --> 00:11:45.690 some flexibility my brother wants and my dad puts, put the hammer down on him. 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:48.450 Well, now you're treating your sons a different way. 00:11:48.780 --> 00:11:54.540 Like, I didn't think that when I unilaterally changed a rule, I, 00:11:55.260 --> 00:11:56.310 I didn't know I was doing that. 00:11:56.310 --> 00:11:59.280 But when I unilaterally took flexibility, when I unilaterally 00:11:59.280 --> 00:12:03.420 changed a rule that there were consequences even, even beyond me. 00:12:05.265 --> 00:12:05.925 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: Absolutely. 00:12:06.570 --> 00:12:10.140 Adam Hatcher: all right, so that, so number one, think about consequences. 00:12:10.140 --> 00:12:12.570 It's thing number one to think about if you're working with your 00:12:12.570 --> 00:12:15.780 family company and you're wrestling with this idea of flexibility. 00:12:15.780 --> 00:12:16.020 Alright? 00:12:16.050 --> 00:12:17.310 So I'll give you a second one. 00:12:18.180 --> 00:12:21.900 Um, find a low stakes one to work on 00:12:22.695 --> 00:12:23.085 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: Hmm. 00:12:23.490 --> 00:12:26.160 Adam Hatcher: when you have this inner family business. 00:12:27.570 --> 00:12:30.150 It needs its own attention. 00:12:30.150 --> 00:12:32.280 So the company has quarterly strategy meetings. 00:12:32.280 --> 00:12:33.660 It has a leadership team. 00:12:33.660 --> 00:12:35.820 They meet, it's got budget meetings. 00:12:35.820 --> 00:12:38.580 Well, your inner family business, you run that the way you work 00:12:38.580 --> 00:12:39.930 in and own the company together. 00:12:40.110 --> 00:12:40.890 Family meetings. 00:12:40.890 --> 00:12:41.850 Now who comes to that? 00:12:41.850 --> 00:12:43.260 Is it just the family owners? 00:12:43.800 --> 00:12:46.170 Family members who work in the company and the owners? 00:12:46.170 --> 00:12:49.500 Is it some other family members, advisors, families do that 00:12:49.500 --> 00:12:53.940 different ways, but that's where you work on how do we hire family? 00:12:53.970 --> 00:12:55.020 How do we work together? 00:12:55.020 --> 00:12:56.250 How do we leave the company? 00:12:56.610 --> 00:12:58.260 How do we make ownership decisions? 00:12:58.260 --> 00:13:02.700 Do we reinvest, reinvest profits, or do we do distributions? 00:13:02.700 --> 00:13:07.800 It's where you work on those issues and in there, if you're going to make an 00:13:07.800 --> 00:13:13.590 exception in your company for family, I would go find some low stakes ones. 00:13:13.650 --> 00:13:15.570 Maybe not an expense report, rebellion. 00:13:15.630 --> 00:13:19.110 I don't think anyone would've reasonably seen that one, but take a 00:13:19.110 --> 00:13:22.260 low stakes one and put it on the table. 00:13:22.770 --> 00:13:23.490 Talk about it. 00:13:23.910 --> 00:13:29.340 A popular thing to do in family companies if is pay dues or 00:13:29.340 --> 00:13:31.650 membership for family members, right? 00:13:31.650 --> 00:13:40.080 So imagine that the founders of a, of a two generation family company want to pay 00:13:40.560 --> 00:13:45.150 for a local social club or country club for their two daughters and their son. 00:13:46.110 --> 00:13:51.480 You could just unilaterally do that or sit down and have a family meeting to talk 00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:55.680 about it and say the, the conversation may sound something like, look. 00:13:56.220 --> 00:13:58.800 When your father and I started this company, we hardly had enough 00:13:58.800 --> 00:14:00.480 money to take care of any of us. 00:14:00.540 --> 00:14:03.600 Over time, the business has been successful, it's supported, afforded 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:06.930 us new perks, and one of those is joining the local country club. 00:14:07.380 --> 00:14:11.370 As we look back, that gave us a place to network that also gave us 00:14:11.370 --> 00:14:15.930 a place to host employee and client events that felt really special. 00:14:15.930 --> 00:14:17.820 We wished we'd had that when we started. 00:14:18.300 --> 00:14:20.670 We would like to give that to you all as well. 00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:26.370 And so we'll pay whatever the upfront fee is, we'll pay that for you, or the company 00:14:26.370 --> 00:14:28.740 will pay that, uh, however you do that. 00:14:29.610 --> 00:14:31.770 And then if you work in the company, we'll, we'll cover 00:14:31.770 --> 00:14:33.210 your monthly dues as well. 00:14:35.190 --> 00:14:38.070 Like that is for the people who work in the company. 00:14:38.070 --> 00:14:41.310 My bet is that that's not a perk that is offered to all 00:14:41.310 --> 00:14:42.420 the employees of the company. 00:14:42.420 --> 00:14:44.370 It may not even be offered to the executives. 00:14:44.370 --> 00:14:48.510 And so part of the flexibility in that is, that's a, you're 00:14:48.510 --> 00:14:50.310 flexing on behalf of the family. 00:14:51.330 --> 00:14:53.310 For a, for an overarching reason. 00:14:53.460 --> 00:14:56.250 But why I would love to see families workshop that versus 00:14:56.250 --> 00:14:58.050 send it, send it in an email, 00:14:58.590 --> 00:15:01.950 is that it gives people a chance to, that's a low stakes conversation. 00:15:01.950 --> 00:15:02.280 Okay. 00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:07.470 Like, that's, that's not the decision to go buy a, do a large acquisition that 00:15:07.470 --> 00:15:09.780 may strain cash flow for a couple years. 00:15:09.780 --> 00:15:11.010 Like that's a big decision. 00:15:11.610 --> 00:15:16.470 This is, that's a pretty low stakes decision that would let you then practice 00:15:16.470 --> 00:15:18.270 bantering the topic with each other. 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:21.450 You know, someone says, Hey, thanks mom and dad, or tell me more about 00:15:21.750 --> 00:15:23.040 what it was like to start the company. 00:15:23.040 --> 00:15:25.770 Or maybe I've never cared about clubs like that. 00:15:25.950 --> 00:15:26.490 Can we use that 00:15:26.490 --> 00:15:27.510 money for something else? 00:15:27.750 --> 00:15:32.460 Whatever the con, wherever the conversation goes, you're practicing 00:15:32.460 --> 00:15:38.070 working in and owning the company together on a low stakes flexibility issue. 00:15:38.580 --> 00:15:40.170 So that would be my encouragement. 00:15:40.500 --> 00:15:42.720 Find a couple of these low stakes issues. 00:15:43.290 --> 00:15:45.640 When you have your family meetings, talk about 'em. 00:15:47.665 --> 00:15:48.165 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: Yes. 00:15:48.795 --> 00:15:52.590 If we want to improve our physical health, we typically start small. 00:15:53.385 --> 00:15:57.825 You know, you start with the lightweights, you do rips, you build up, you walk 00:15:57.885 --> 00:15:59.655 before you jog, before you run. 00:15:59.985 --> 00:16:06.195 And the invisible, you know, relational dynamics, that is often a wise approach 00:16:06.195 --> 00:16:08.265 to take, to start small and grow. 00:16:08.835 --> 00:16:13.815 And there's so much value just in sitting down and having that conversation, 00:16:13.815 --> 00:16:17.385 sharing your thinking, sharing how it's aligned, the values that it's aligned 00:16:17.385 --> 00:16:18.975 with, the purpose for this decision. 00:16:19.365 --> 00:16:24.105 And being open again to hearing those voices that say, wonderful, thank you dad. 00:16:24.375 --> 00:16:28.935 Or that voice that says, you know, I hear your heart, your desire for it 00:16:28.935 --> 00:16:33.645 to, to be a benefit and a blessing for me, but I actually hate going there. 00:16:34.245 --> 00:16:37.845 You know, might you be open to something else? 00:16:38.115 --> 00:16:39.465 I hear the desire behind that. 00:16:39.465 --> 00:16:40.965 Might it flex in another way? 00:16:40.965 --> 00:16:43.215 What about doing this in instead? 00:16:44.115 --> 00:16:48.645 So much value simply to having conversations as, as a family. 00:16:49.335 --> 00:16:57.195 Adam Hatcher: And the undercurrent there is, it goes a little unsaid is if you 00:16:57.195 --> 00:17:02.175 want to, if you want to, nobody just takes flexibility in, in a family company. 00:17:02.175 --> 00:17:03.645 You don't just take it for yourself. 00:17:04.455 --> 00:17:05.445 We talk about it. 00:17:05.445 --> 00:17:09.315 We even talked about the silly issues and, and the, to use your point, number 00:17:09.315 --> 00:17:16.125 one, the consequence of not doing that, I then people don't know either. 00:17:16.185 --> 00:17:19.275 They don't know when the rule applies or not, or they just start doing what 00:17:19.275 --> 00:17:21.075 they want until someone says something. 00:17:21.105 --> 00:17:23.565 And how does that impact the business? 00:17:23.565 --> 00:17:28.065 A friend of mine worked in a family company and they're, their home 00:17:28.065 --> 00:17:31.455 office was located in a place that, in the last couple years went through 00:17:31.455 --> 00:17:35.055 a natural disaster and as they were recovering from the natural disaster, 00:17:35.085 --> 00:17:36.855 they all came to work and they. 00:17:37.275 --> 00:17:38.805 Could not get on the internet. 00:17:39.165 --> 00:17:42.945 And so the head of it went up on the roof to check on the starlink 00:17:42.945 --> 00:17:45.465 satellite and it was gone. 00:17:46.875 --> 00:17:51.345 One of the family owners who worked in the company that had no real rules about 00:17:51.345 --> 00:17:55.155 when you get to be flexible or not, well, the internet was out at their lake 00:17:55.155 --> 00:18:01.065 house, and so they took the company, starlink, drove it to their Lakehouse and 00:18:01.065 --> 00:18:03.495 knocked the company off of the internet. 00:18:04.335 --> 00:18:07.905 And in part it sounds silly and you're like, how dare someone do that? 00:18:09.405 --> 00:18:14.955 if you don't know how you ask for flexibility and just feel that you can 00:18:14.955 --> 00:18:18.165 take it over years, this just snowballs. 00:18:18.750 --> 00:18:22.020 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: Yeah, well, flexibility can be wise, and 00:18:22.020 --> 00:18:23.370 flexibility can be destructive. 00:18:23.370 --> 00:18:25.860 That's why thinking through the consequences, short term, long 00:18:25.860 --> 00:18:28.110 term, and broadly are important. 00:18:28.410 --> 00:18:33.090 Flexibility, overdone creates an attitude, a perception of entitlement. 00:18:33.840 --> 00:18:35.430 I'm exempt from responsibility. 00:18:35.430 --> 00:18:36.930 I can do whatever I want. 00:18:36.930 --> 00:18:40.530 I don't even think about what, you know, the impact on others could be. 00:18:41.010 --> 00:18:45.510 That is, you know, kinda like the end game of, of flexibility gone awry. 00:18:46.050 --> 00:18:48.390 Um, not kept in check. 00:18:48.390 --> 00:18:52.890 Not being the exception, but being the rule that we flex you will 00:18:52.890 --> 00:18:57.390 cultivate behaviors, attitude, expectation of entitlement. 00:18:58.080 --> 00:18:59.340 Adam Hatcher: What's the danger of that? 00:18:59.340 --> 00:19:03.210 Or maybe better yet, in working with families, when you have seen that, 00:19:03.540 --> 00:19:05.820 what does then, Ooh, I can't believe you dropped the entitlement word. 00:19:05.820 --> 00:19:06.120 Melissa. 00:19:06.120 --> 00:19:06.570 Let's do it. 00:19:07.980 --> 00:19:12.330 What does give, if someone goes entitlement, I don't know what that means. 00:19:12.570 --> 00:19:14.070 Let's take a quick, we, we'll come back. 00:19:14.070 --> 00:19:16.410 Melissa's third point to know about flexibility, but we're 00:19:16.410 --> 00:19:17.970 gonna take a quick deviation here. 00:19:18.810 --> 00:19:22.650 Explain entitlement for someone who's curious, what that means in this context. 00:19:23.805 --> 00:19:26.775 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: Well, I can actually give you a twofer and answer that 00:19:26.775 --> 00:19:29.250 question, which will tie back into 0.3 00:19:29.250 --> 00:19:31.785 that I wanted to share with your, your listeners. 00:19:32.235 --> 00:19:36.915 I borrowed from John Townsend, um, a working definition of entitlement, 00:19:37.455 --> 00:19:42.585 ex feeling exempt from responsibility and deserving of special treatment. 00:19:43.635 --> 00:19:45.495 So feeling exempt from responsibility. 00:19:45.495 --> 00:19:48.135 Doesn't matter what the consequences are, they're not gonna follow me. 00:19:48.645 --> 00:19:50.685 Um, I deserve special treatment. 00:19:51.195 --> 00:19:54.495 That's describes entitlement in a nutshell. 00:19:54.795 --> 00:19:59.595 And the antidote to that is allowing consequences to fall 00:20:00.105 --> 00:20:01.515 on the responsible party. 00:20:02.775 --> 00:20:05.385 You know, entitlement does not happen in a vacuum. 00:20:05.385 --> 00:20:06.390 Someone cannot behave. 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:10.290 They can wanna be entitled, but if there's not someone there to reinforce 00:20:10.290 --> 00:20:14.550 that and to indulge that, they can't actually behave in a way because someone 00:20:14.550 --> 00:20:16.350 has to pick up the responsibility. 00:20:16.740 --> 00:20:20.580 And so a wonderful antidote, um, and going back to our previous 00:20:20.580 --> 00:20:25.950 stream of conversation is to get really clear on responsibility. 00:20:27.170 --> 00:20:27.250 Adam Hatcher: Hmm. 00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:31.140 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: the word again tells us so much response, 00:20:31.290 --> 00:20:34.500 ability, our ability to respond. 00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:37.200 What are my abilities to respond? 00:20:37.530 --> 00:20:41.940 I can think, I can feel, I can act, I can speak. 00:20:42.420 --> 00:20:44.700 Those are my responsibilities. 00:20:45.210 --> 00:20:46.620 I can't speak for you, Adam. 00:20:47.970 --> 00:20:48.780 I can't think for you. 00:20:48.780 --> 00:20:49.860 I can't feel for you. 00:20:49.860 --> 00:20:52.020 I can't behave for you. 00:20:52.080 --> 00:20:56.130 So I am not response able for you. 00:20:56.430 --> 00:21:01.890 I'm only response able for me, and I'm meant to experience 00:21:01.890 --> 00:21:03.300 the consequences of my choices. 00:21:03.300 --> 00:21:03.810 Those are good. 00:21:03.810 --> 00:21:05.430 Sometimes those are bad sometimes. 00:21:06.915 --> 00:21:13.845 And since we are in a relationship and I care about you, I want 00:21:13.845 --> 00:21:16.005 to be responsive to you. 00:21:16.575 --> 00:21:21.165 If I make a decision that I know you're not gonna, like, I want to be responsive 00:21:21.165 --> 00:21:26.175 to you and do so in a way that's friendly, fair, and friendly, that I care about 00:21:26.175 --> 00:21:27.645 the impact it's gonna have on you. 00:21:27.645 --> 00:21:30.705 But I don't take personal responsibility for it. 00:21:31.335 --> 00:21:35.985 If we bring back in the example of the family who busted their own employment 00:21:35.985 --> 00:21:42.705 policy in very short order, you know, they were taking responsibility for 00:21:43.065 --> 00:21:45.765 the, the cousin needed, wanted a job. 00:21:45.885 --> 00:21:48.165 Needed, wanted income for his family. 00:21:48.675 --> 00:21:51.345 Whose responsibility is that? 00:21:52.575 --> 00:21:57.735 It's his, it's not the companies, it's not the families. 00:21:58.155 --> 00:21:58.875 Do they love him? 00:21:58.875 --> 00:21:59.955 Care about him? 00:22:00.105 --> 00:22:00.885 Yes. 00:22:01.275 --> 00:22:05.265 And what is the responsibility of the business, the business. 00:22:06.105 --> 00:22:09.705 Responsibility to shareholders, you know, to, to stay in business 00:22:09.705 --> 00:22:11.055 and continue to produce an income. 00:22:11.085 --> 00:22:14.085 How are you gonna do that if you hire every family member that wants 00:22:14.085 --> 00:22:17.325 to work there, even if the business does not have a need for them. 00:22:17.925 --> 00:22:22.815 So, letting responsibility be taken by who it belongs to. 00:22:24.015 --> 00:22:25.185 And we could be responsive. 00:22:25.365 --> 00:22:27.435 They could be responsive to that cousin. 00:22:27.495 --> 00:22:31.845 They care and wanna support him in other ways, to connect with people, 00:22:31.845 --> 00:22:35.775 to get a job, to make ends meet in the meantime, if that's, uh, a need. 00:22:35.775 --> 00:22:40.815 But they took on responsibility for him having employment and compensation 00:22:41.595 --> 00:22:43.095 that didn't belong to them. 00:22:43.725 --> 00:22:50.115 They reaped the consequences and through that, potentially robbed him of, you 00:22:50.115 --> 00:22:51.825 know, some, we learn and we stretch. 00:22:52.245 --> 00:22:53.505 We learn when we're uncomfortable. 00:22:53.505 --> 00:22:56.925 We, we learn that we can do hard things by doing hard things. 00:22:57.285 --> 00:23:05.205 And so maybe robbing him of opportunities to grow through challenge. 00:23:06.585 --> 00:23:08.350 By taking that responsibility on for him. 00:23:09.780 --> 00:23:12.960 Adam Hatcher: And I think about one of the areas where people get. 00:23:13.965 --> 00:23:18.285 Wrestle when you work with the family, with your own family, and you wrestle 00:23:18.285 --> 00:23:20.355 with responsibility versus entitlement. 00:23:21.045 --> 00:23:24.975 One of the things I have noticed is when you have, you don't just have a 00:23:24.975 --> 00:23:28.935 single shareholder, maybe your, your CEO uncle is the only shareholder, for 00:23:28.935 --> 00:23:33.285 example, but when you have ownership and minority ownership distributed in 00:23:33.285 --> 00:23:39.075 the company, there's, you can see it swing to both ends of the pendulum. 00:23:39.135 --> 00:23:45.165 You can see people who believe, well, because I own 2%, 5%, 15%, well, 00:23:45.195 --> 00:23:47.145 it's, it's less than, less than 50. 00:23:48.045 --> 00:23:53.685 Uh, because I own a minority stake, I am entitled to behave 00:23:53.685 --> 00:23:55.035 as the controlling shareholder. 00:23:55.035 --> 00:23:56.085 I'm not follow 00:23:56.085 --> 00:23:57.615 the rule, whatever it may be. 00:23:57.645 --> 00:23:58.665 Like I've seen that end. 00:23:59.685 --> 00:24:01.665 Because there has not been a conversation. 00:24:01.665 --> 00:24:03.855 What does, when you work in the company as a minority 00:24:03.855 --> 00:24:05.085 shareholder, what does that mean? 00:24:05.535 --> 00:24:09.135 But I've also seen it swing to the other end where people feel overly 00:24:09.135 --> 00:24:11.085 responsible and it's understandable. 00:24:11.505 --> 00:24:14.715 Oh my goodness, I might be in a staff level position, but I'm also 00:24:14.715 --> 00:24:20.265 an owner, so I feel responsible for these hundred, 200, 1500 people. 00:24:20.925 --> 00:24:24.525 And they feel this crushing responsibility that really isn't theirs. 00:24:25.185 --> 00:24:30.105 But you feel it because there's, because there is ownership. 00:24:30.105 --> 00:24:35.505 And that to me is one of like, tip number two, go find something, some 00:24:35.505 --> 00:24:42.285 small, flexible discussion to have because the discussion about do we 00:24:42.285 --> 00:24:44.595 hire my cousin when he really needs it? 00:24:44.925 --> 00:24:48.705 Or let him learn to navigate an uncertain employment environment, or, 00:24:49.815 --> 00:24:54.195 or am I more responsible or not because I'm an owner working in the business? 00:24:54.195 --> 00:24:55.695 And what does that mean or not mean? 00:24:56.895 --> 00:24:58.575 Go find the easy ones to talk about. 00:24:58.605 --> 00:25:02.100 'cause those are, those are important, but those are the heavy ones. 00:25:02.940 --> 00:25:03.210 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: Mm-hmm. 00:25:04.350 --> 00:25:09.120 And even thinking through that decision with those different 00:25:09.120 --> 00:25:12.510 hats on, alright, with my owner hat on, what's my responsibility? 00:25:12.510 --> 00:25:14.705 What's my opportunity as a family member? 00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:18.450 You know, what's my responsibility thinking through as an employee? 00:25:18.510 --> 00:25:21.300 You know, what are my, what's my responsibility here? 00:25:21.750 --> 00:25:24.090 That's where it gets so complex in family enterprise. 00:25:24.120 --> 00:25:25.860 'cause you got multiple hats on 00:25:27.080 --> 00:25:27.280 Adam Hatcher: Mm-hmm. 00:25:27.540 --> 00:25:29.760 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: through it from each of them to, to 00:25:29.760 --> 00:25:30.690 view it from big picture. 00:25:32.510 --> 00:25:34.545 Adam Hatcher: I remember talk, uh, I got a chance to talk 00:25:34.545 --> 00:25:36.430 with a founder who they had a. 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:39.060 Family company that was a chain. 00:25:39.570 --> 00:25:44.670 And his three sons and his daughters were all, he had given shares 00:25:44.670 --> 00:25:46.020 of the company to all of them. 00:25:46.350 --> 00:25:49.020 And what, what's the consequence of not talking about this? 00:25:49.320 --> 00:25:51.900 And it was just a casual conversation one day. 00:25:51.900 --> 00:25:54.450 And he just kind of looked up and he said, you know, Adam, what? 00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:56.040 What frustrates me? 00:25:56.040 --> 00:25:57.870 He said, my sons, my daughter. 00:25:58.080 --> 00:26:00.900 None of them go to visit our different locations. 00:26:01.650 --> 00:26:02.640 I really wish they did. 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:05.370 I mean, gracious, I gave them ownership in this company. 00:26:05.460 --> 00:26:06.300 Why don't they go? 00:26:06.690 --> 00:26:10.350 And as we talked, I realized he'd never told him that. 00:26:11.100 --> 00:26:13.590 And I totally understood his perspective. 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:14.730 I gave you this. 00:26:14.730 --> 00:26:16.050 I mean, just naturally, right? 00:26:16.050 --> 00:26:19.320 You would think osmosis would tell you that I expect this of you. 00:26:19.320 --> 00:26:22.920 And like rational people, if they're owners of something, will go, Anna, maybe. 00:26:23.670 --> 00:26:26.100 But it was an unspoken expectation. 00:26:26.100 --> 00:26:26.250 An 00:26:26.310 --> 00:26:28.200 unspoken responsibility. 00:26:29.070 --> 00:26:32.220 And I thought, boy, how it, well, I knew how he felt. 00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:33.660 It was frustrating for him. 00:26:34.410 --> 00:26:35.340 And disappointing. 00:26:35.760 --> 00:26:40.350 But then how would it have felt for them if they knew their dad was disappointed in 00:26:40.350 --> 00:26:43.590 them for something unspoken between them? 00:26:44.130 --> 00:26:47.970 And that's an example of why it's so important to sit down and talk 00:26:47.970 --> 00:26:50.640 about what are responsibilities? 00:26:51.120 --> 00:26:52.740 Do we allow consequences? 00:26:53.040 --> 00:26:55.920 And maybe let's find some low stakes poker to work on 00:26:56.790 --> 00:26:59.790 before, before we have these heaviest conversations. 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:02.630 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: And it's so funny, this is a little bit of a rabbit 00:27:02.630 --> 00:27:05.450 trail, but it's so funny, like, you know, if that dad's saying, I don't 00:27:05.450 --> 00:27:10.850 understand why, or I don't understand why or why not, you know, so often we 00:27:10.850 --> 00:27:14.480 use those words, I don't understand, but we don't seek understanding. 00:27:15.050 --> 00:27:15.740 I don't understand. 00:27:15.740 --> 00:27:17.180 So I judge, I don't understand. 00:27:17.180 --> 00:27:20.330 So I feel hurt or angry as opposed to saying, I don't understand. 00:27:20.570 --> 00:27:23.660 Let me get curious and go ask what this is about. 00:27:24.995 --> 00:27:29.610 Adam Hatcher: The the other one is, well, yeah, uh, I know that's not how most 00:27:29.610 --> 00:27:31.350 people act, but that's just how she is. 00:27:33.360 --> 00:27:36.570 And then so like we don't wanna wrestle with that question, okay? 00:27:36.750 --> 00:27:41.820 That family employee's behavior is outside the norm that we've established. 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:45.540 We, no one's handed them the flexibility to behave in that manner. 00:27:46.410 --> 00:27:46.680 Okay? 00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:48.720 But now what do we, what do we do? 00:27:50.685 --> 00:27:53.955 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: To do family enterprise, well, it takes 00:27:53.955 --> 00:27:58.125 more courage than, than working in a different environment. 00:27:58.155 --> 00:28:00.825 It takes more skill, it takes more self-awareness. 00:28:01.185 --> 00:28:06.735 You know, if you work with your family, you, I believe, are in the 00:28:06.735 --> 00:28:12.570 most complex type of entity that you could work, work for within and. 00:28:13.470 --> 00:28:13.650 It. 00:28:13.650 --> 00:28:15.210 It is just inherently challenging. 00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:19.290 That's why you and I love coming alongside families to help 00:28:19.290 --> 00:28:21.600 them navigate this complexity. 00:28:21.930 --> 00:28:26.910 Cut through some of it, grow, learn, because there's so much at stake and 00:28:26.910 --> 00:28:29.070 it's just inherently challenging. 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:31.620 Adam Hatcher: Yeah, it is. 00:28:32.430 --> 00:28:37.410 it was John Ward, one of the godfathers of Family Business and Family Company 00:28:37.410 --> 00:28:42.900 Research said there's a reason that this is the hardest job in the world. 00:28:43.320 --> 00:28:45.000 You are trying to build a great company. 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:45.780 Most of us are. 00:28:45.780 --> 00:28:48.540 You're trying to build a great company, great company, whatever that means. 00:28:48.540 --> 00:28:53.760 It doesn't have to be huge, but one that is valuable and has a positive impact, and 00:28:53.760 --> 00:28:59.940 at the same time, navigate the tension of an unconditional business with conditional 00:28:59.940 --> 00:29:05.130 family and have a strong family as well, a great company, and a strong family. 00:29:05.610 --> 00:29:09.960 When those two things pull against each other and what I've loved over. 00:29:11.460 --> 00:29:15.120 This time together where we've given three things to think about with family 00:29:15.120 --> 00:29:20.760 company flexibility, and last time where we unpacked the idea of boundaries, what 00:29:20.760 --> 00:29:24.570 those are and how they show up is these are the skills like, listen, I wish 00:29:24.570 --> 00:29:26.550 I'd had this language when I started. 00:29:26.970 --> 00:29:28.410 Because it helps you. 00:29:29.190 --> 00:29:34.890 It helps you navigate in a way that is unique to the family company. 00:29:35.010 --> 00:29:36.000 Well, thank you. 00:29:36.630 --> 00:29:37.710 This has been fun for me. 00:29:38.415 --> 00:29:38.925 Thank you. 00:29:39.025 --> 00:29:40.410 So thank you so much. 00:29:40.410 --> 00:29:44.280 And will you please tell people it's in the, it'll be in the notes 00:29:44.280 --> 00:29:49.815 again, links to your website and your book, but tell people how 00:29:49.895 --> 00:29:54.675 to find you and then when someone calls Melissa, it sounds like what? 00:29:56.700 --> 00:29:56.790 What? 00:29:58.020 --> 00:29:58.200 Yeah. 00:29:58.800 --> 00:30:01.020 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: So my website is my name without the 00:30:01.020 --> 00:30:03.330 hyphen, Melissa Mitchell glitch.com. 00:30:03.840 --> 00:30:08.040 And if you're liking the Southern, Southern draw, I read the audio book 00:30:08.070 --> 00:30:10.050 to you and it only takes four hours. 00:30:10.140 --> 00:30:12.240 So I wanna put a plugin for that 00:30:12.615 --> 00:30:14.370 Adam Hatcher: I, I, I listened to it. 00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:15.360 I enjoyed it. 00:30:15.360 --> 00:30:18.750 It's perfect on back roads in the southeast, but you 00:30:18.750 --> 00:30:20.010 can do this in Denver too. 00:30:20.010 --> 00:30:21.540 It's not geographically. 00:30:21.555 --> 00:30:23.095 That's just, that was my experience 00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:27.390 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: that every family business is different, every situation 00:30:27.390 --> 00:30:28.980 that they're experiencing is different. 00:30:29.100 --> 00:30:32.400 And so if someone reaches out to me, it, it just starts with that 00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:35.490 conversation, like you're saying, let you know, you're inviting family 00:30:35.490 --> 00:30:36.990 members to sit around the table. 00:30:37.050 --> 00:30:40.860 I invite a family member to reach out to me and just have a conversation. 00:30:40.860 --> 00:30:41.790 What's going on? 00:30:42.180 --> 00:30:43.620 You know, what are you hoping for? 00:30:44.040 --> 00:30:49.200 Um, what, and just listening for opportunity first to, to, to 00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:52.950 understand and then to, to feel, get a feel for do I think I can help. 00:30:53.430 --> 00:30:53.700 Alright. 00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:54.930 And if I think I can help, what might. 00:30:55.590 --> 00:30:58.110 First step would be, but just a conversation. 00:31:00.295 --> 00:31:00.515 Adam Hatcher: and. 00:31:01.605 --> 00:31:05.955 What that leads to, uh, because you and I have talked, you and I have talked 00:31:05.955 --> 00:31:10.065 ahead of this, what it leads to is helping families find issues that are 00:31:10.065 --> 00:31:12.645 impacting the dynamic of working together. 00:31:12.660 --> 00:31:17.295 I, I remember meeting a family once and before we could build any 00:31:17.295 --> 00:31:21.735 governance or any structure, there were two family members who could not 00:31:21.855 --> 00:31:25.425 communicate and they work together and it's so hard 'cause the rhythm of the 00:31:25.425 --> 00:31:28.035 business forces you around each other. 00:31:28.035 --> 00:31:30.345 It's not like when you're struggling with your sister and you can 00:31:30.345 --> 00:31:31.755 just give each other space. 00:31:32.205 --> 00:31:37.935 Uh, so that's what I app love about what you do, is that it uncovers why, why 00:31:37.935 --> 00:31:42.405 is there friction every single time we interact and what do we do about that? 00:31:42.465 --> 00:31:47.055 Alright, well, uh, I recommend your book, uh, I recommend the Southern 00:31:47.055 --> 00:31:48.585 Draw Audio version of it as well. 00:31:49.815 --> 00:31:54.255 And you can find Melissa's website and her book in the show notes this time. 00:31:54.585 --> 00:31:58.005 Melissa, thank you so very much for being here. 00:31:58.690 --> 00:31:59.485 Melissa Mitchell-Blitch: My pleasure, Adam. 00:31:59.655 --> 00:32:00.885 Thank you for the invitation. 00:32:03.049 --> 00:32:06.259 Adam Hatcher: These last couple of episodes were so fun 00:32:06.259 --> 00:32:08.269 for me because Melissa has. 00:32:08.794 --> 00:32:14.164 Opened up some critical conversations, and I hope in listening to this, you 00:32:14.164 --> 00:32:19.804 can differentiate what Melissa is talking about from conversations you 00:32:19.804 --> 00:32:24.964 have about family company budgets, strategy meetings, or even as 00:32:24.964 --> 00:32:27.154 owners, how you do wealth planning. 00:32:27.934 --> 00:32:33.304 It's a complimentary language and it's a distinct language, and I hope that the 00:32:33.304 --> 00:32:35.764 last two episodes have helped you both. 00:32:36.424 --> 00:32:40.954 Think or be introduced to boundaries and then wrestle with some particular concepts 00:32:41.194 --> 00:32:44.554 like firm, fair and friendly, or flexible. 00:32:46.354 --> 00:32:49.564 Every time you touch a 21 Clear Podcast, our goal. 00:32:50.314 --> 00:32:53.464 To help you, or if it's the newsletter or if it's an event we do. 00:32:54.064 --> 00:32:57.994 Our goal is to help you think about your inner family business, not working in 00:32:57.994 --> 00:33:02.194 the company, not working on the company, but that unique dynamic of how you 00:33:02.194 --> 00:33:04.444 all work and own the company together. 00:33:04.924 --> 00:33:06.994 I hope this episode was helpful to you. 00:33:07.324 --> 00:33:11.134 I look forward to seeing you next time, as my grandfather would've said. 00:33:11.554 --> 00:33:14.314 Thank you so very, very much for listening.