WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.279 Mark Butler: This is a podcast for coaches. 00:00:01.309 --> 00:00:02.120 I'm Mark Butler. 00:00:02.120 --> 00:00:06.870 I'm here with my friend Chantal Allen, who I wanted to bring back on the podcast. 00:00:08.074 --> 00:00:11.675 And I remember us maybe having something we were going to talk about, 00:00:11.675 --> 00:00:12.824 but now I don't remember what it was. 00:00:14.414 --> 00:00:14.824 Chantel Allen: Yeah. 00:00:15.514 --> 00:00:19.254 I'm going to be launching a new program here in a little bit for coaches. 00:00:19.404 --> 00:00:23.884 And yeah, so we were going to just have a conversation around it. 00:00:23.894 --> 00:00:24.354 So 00:00:25.224 --> 00:00:28.125 Mark Butler: remind me, is it, you and I've talked for a couple 00:00:28.125 --> 00:00:31.534 of months now about creating practice spaces for coaches. 00:00:33.194 --> 00:00:34.865 Is that what you have in mind? 00:00:34.915 --> 00:00:36.035 Remind me what you have in mind. 00:00:36.375 --> 00:00:36.634 Chantel Allen: Yeah. 00:00:36.634 --> 00:00:38.044 So this is not that yet. 00:00:38.264 --> 00:00:42.344 I foresee that being something that I implement maybe 00:00:42.344 --> 00:00:44.124 collaborate with in the future. 00:00:44.174 --> 00:00:50.245 But as of right now, I, this program is more for an intimate one on one 00:00:50.324 --> 00:00:52.664 coaching program for the time being. 00:00:53.065 --> 00:00:58.125 And then with the information and getting the just maybe some more gaps and 00:00:58.504 --> 00:01:01.584 things that I can see in there, I would love to create a course for coaches. 00:01:01.965 --> 00:01:07.185 It's in the near future, but this is just like a subset before that, that the 00:01:07.185 --> 00:01:09.214 goal is to get more information from it. 00:01:09.235 --> 00:01:09.685 So 00:01:10.115 --> 00:01:13.805 Mark Butler: I think when you and I talked the other day, you had mentioned it's 00:01:13.815 --> 00:01:18.134 something you're going to do one on one, but it's with this specific intent of 00:01:18.985 --> 00:01:22.804 mentoring the coach, helping the coach become more skillful, more confident. 00:01:22.865 --> 00:01:23.315 Is that right? 00:01:23.834 --> 00:01:26.125 Chantel Allen: Yeah, because this is my belief and you can tell me what 00:01:26.125 --> 00:01:29.884 your thoughts are on this Mark, but I believe you can't help somebody if you 00:01:29.894 --> 00:01:32.674 haven't gone to that level yourself, like you have to be willing if you're 00:01:32.674 --> 00:01:35.344 willing to do emotional work, or if you're wanting to help somebody. 00:01:35.894 --> 00:01:39.365 I see this all the time with clients is they're wanting to give their clients, 00:01:39.375 --> 00:01:43.045 these amazing tools that they're hearing about, but they often are hitting these 00:01:43.055 --> 00:01:46.095 blocks or these walls because they haven't been willing to do the work 00:01:46.095 --> 00:01:50.735 themselves first, or at least go deep enough to get that work done first. 00:01:51.115 --> 00:01:53.804 So the hope that I have is to help coaches. 00:01:54.094 --> 00:01:55.175 Let's go deeper. 00:01:55.214 --> 00:01:58.725 Let's help you build confidence because you're doing it first. 00:01:59.125 --> 00:02:03.835 Then you're going to have the skillsets and the ability, the vulnerability to 00:02:03.835 --> 00:02:06.300 now, you Help your clients do that. 00:02:06.750 --> 00:02:11.250 Mark Butler: Can you think of an area in which I'm putting you on the spot here so 00:02:11.250 --> 00:02:14.889 we can, yeah, we can pause and brainstorm, but can you think of an area in which, or 00:02:14.889 --> 00:02:21.659 an example where you might observe a coach that you can tell hasn't done the depth of 00:02:21.729 --> 00:02:25.350 their own work and how that might sound? 00:02:25.685 --> 00:02:28.625 In their coaching versus someone who has, and how that might sound. 00:02:29.075 --> 00:02:30.455 What does this look like in the wild? 00:02:31.394 --> 00:02:32.084 Chantel Allen: In the wild? 00:02:32.084 --> 00:02:32.355 Okay. 00:02:32.355 --> 00:02:35.745 So I have thought a lot about this 'cause I, I have to be careful that 00:02:35.745 --> 00:02:39.255 I don't think I know better than what I think coaches are aware of. 00:02:39.345 --> 00:02:40.605 So I have to be careful with this. 00:02:40.605 --> 00:02:44.174 But this is, I think that's why I'm trying to create this, is to see 00:02:44.174 --> 00:02:48.105 if people do resonate with what I'm seeing as a gap in coaching. 00:02:48.524 --> 00:02:53.635 But what I've noticed in the wild, I love how you word it like that is pe I 00:02:53.725 --> 00:02:55.495 notice coaches are talking a lot more. 00:02:56.074 --> 00:02:58.564 they think they have the advice that the code, their 00:02:58.605 --> 00:02:59.774 clients need a little bit more. 00:02:59.774 --> 00:03:03.424 So a client will present with a situation that they're going through. 00:03:03.835 --> 00:03:08.514 And instead of maybe diving and asking more questions or getting clarification 00:03:08.524 --> 00:03:13.904 or even reading their client a little bit more, they dive into the strategies 00:03:13.904 --> 00:03:18.674 or the tools that they have been trained on, which is amazing, but they're leading 00:03:18.674 --> 00:03:24.564 with that rather than taking a step back and having the ability to sit and 00:03:24.564 --> 00:03:25.824 read their client a little bit better. 00:03:26.334 --> 00:03:33.894 Mark Butler: What do you think contributes to coaches falling into that pattern? 00:03:35.380 --> 00:03:38.279 Chantel Allen: So this is, I'll even just speak for myself. 00:03:38.289 --> 00:03:40.269 I think it's because you're trying to prove to yourself 00:03:40.269 --> 00:03:41.469 that you're a good enough coach. 00:03:42.950 --> 00:03:46.539 That's just my take on it is I think it's a prover. 00:03:46.559 --> 00:03:48.189 It's a striver. 00:03:48.210 --> 00:03:49.149 It's an achiever. 00:03:49.189 --> 00:03:52.839 That's coming out thinking like, okay, if I speak enough, or if I show 00:03:52.839 --> 00:03:57.689 that I know this information enough, then I'm doing a good job as a coach. 00:03:57.779 --> 00:04:00.039 So it comes back without them realizing. 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:03.059 I think this is something I had to come to my own realization of is, It 00:04:03.059 --> 00:04:06.730 came back around to okay, Chantelle, you're trying to prove something 00:04:06.730 --> 00:04:09.610 to yourself in a roundabout way. 00:04:10.210 --> 00:04:14.339 So it was that's why I'm saying I had to do a lot of healing for myself. 00:04:14.339 --> 00:04:16.479 I had to stop proving, I had to stop striving. 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:19.380 I had to stop trying to achieve things through my clients. 00:04:20.469 --> 00:04:23.689 I had a lot of work that I needed to do to calm down. 00:04:23.710 --> 00:04:24.440 You're good. 00:04:24.450 --> 00:04:25.890 You're whole, you're complete. 00:04:25.900 --> 00:04:26.790 No matter what. 00:04:27.166 --> 00:04:31.268 And if you're watching this actually So I have to be like hey, I'm gonna 00:04:31.268 --> 00:04:35.371 post for just a short period of time, so you can see what my video is like. 00:04:35.371 --> 00:04:40.198 So I'll be like, if I post for a week, I can't think of a video of an umbrella 00:04:40.198 --> 00:04:42.370 that I post for, maybe a week or so. 00:04:42.370 --> 00:04:45.989 But if I wanted to show you down a little bit, with my coaching business. 00:04:48.409 --> 00:04:50.590 Mark Butler: Oh, yeah, I used to do this. 00:04:51.710 --> 00:04:53.730 I think I've told this story a lot, but I used to do this in 00:04:53.730 --> 00:04:56.800 my money coaching practice early in my money coaching practice. 00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:01.629 Like we're talking 2015 and I would lose sleep at night over 00:05:01.630 --> 00:05:03.120 my client's money choices. 00:05:03.719 --> 00:05:04.309 Oh yeah. 00:05:04.530 --> 00:05:11.239 And it made me eventually admit to myself that I must have believed that the 00:05:11.339 --> 00:05:18.089 purpose of the practice was to get people to do what I thought they should do. 00:05:19.515 --> 00:05:22.955 But, and I agree, I wasn't aware of this, but I agree with you in hindsight. 00:05:23.215 --> 00:05:27.985 It was so that I could feel successful and so that I could feel in my case 00:05:27.985 --> 00:05:32.185 in particular, so that I could feel confident that people would keep paying 00:05:32.185 --> 00:05:35.594 me so I could pay my bills, et cetera. 00:05:36.025 --> 00:05:36.454 Yes. 00:05:36.534 --> 00:05:42.635 The idea that I would let go of my client's choices at the 00:05:42.645 --> 00:05:44.245 time was terrifying to me. 00:05:44.780 --> 00:05:45.140 Chantel Allen: Yeah. 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:49.079 I think, and I love what you're saying there is we try to, without realizing 00:05:49.079 --> 00:05:53.659 it, trying to get a clients to some kind of result so that we can say Oh, I do 00:05:53.669 --> 00:05:57.259 give my clients results or, Oh, I do give them breakthroughs or a hot ahas. 00:05:57.609 --> 00:06:00.929 Like I always, what's interesting to me, and I'm not saying this is across the 00:06:00.929 --> 00:06:04.929 board, but I often see coaches trying to leave their clients on a high note. 00:06:05.270 --> 00:06:08.699 Like they, they want them to walk away from a session feeling good 00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:12.419 just so that they feel good that, Oh, they got something out of this. 00:06:14.295 --> 00:06:18.445 And I would actually push back and what is wrong with having a client leave mad 00:06:18.525 --> 00:06:22.185 or upset or in an uncomfortable place. 00:06:22.205 --> 00:06:25.674 And I think that would hit on, you ask yourself that question, like what's 00:06:25.674 --> 00:06:26.845 wrong with my client being upset? 00:06:27.015 --> 00:06:29.115 You'll find there's, it's hitting on something. 00:06:29.395 --> 00:06:32.024 It means this about myself or it means this about whatever. 00:06:32.464 --> 00:06:35.184 So yeah, I think it's just changing that too. 00:06:36.129 --> 00:06:41.210 Mark Butler: I think I'm guilty of that a percentage of the time, in the last 00:06:41.249 --> 00:06:48.939 two, three, five minutes of the call, maybe I want to offer them hope or point 00:06:48.939 --> 00:06:54.859 out the positive, or I'm going to have to look at my, I'll have to watch myself. 00:06:55.400 --> 00:06:59.660 I don't know if I do that all the time, but I think I would be prone to that. 00:07:00.020 --> 00:07:01.710 Here's a story that proves your point. 00:07:02.119 --> 00:07:05.170 I was working with my own coach. 00:07:05.259 --> 00:07:07.839 This is probably five years ago now. 00:07:08.770 --> 00:07:11.110 And this is a coach. 00:07:12.099 --> 00:07:12.629 This is Bev. 00:07:12.629 --> 00:07:13.789 I can't, I don't know why I would hide who it is. 00:07:13.790 --> 00:07:14.489 It's Bev Aaron. 00:07:15.890 --> 00:07:19.470 I was working with Bev and we were having a session and. 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:22.840 Bev was so great. 00:07:22.890 --> 00:07:26.280 That was such a great experience for me in one session. 00:07:27.129 --> 00:07:30.320 I can't remember why, but I got so angry. 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:33.120 I just felt this rage building me. 00:07:33.219 --> 00:07:38.329 It wasn't at Bev, of course, but just whatever we were talking about, I remember 00:07:38.339 --> 00:07:42.010 being caught off guard by how angry I became in the middle of the session. 00:07:42.090 --> 00:07:43.560 And then the session ended 00:07:45.610 --> 00:07:48.200 and she texted me that night. 00:07:48.820 --> 00:07:50.040 Totally well intentioned. 00:07:50.409 --> 00:07:53.760 I could see myself doing this and she just texted and said, you good? 00:07:55.160 --> 00:07:57.899 Cause we left it not good. 00:07:58.180 --> 00:07:58.510 Chantel Allen: Yeah. 00:07:58.740 --> 00:08:01.050 Mark Butler: And I replied and said, oh yeah, I feel amazing. 00:08:01.180 --> 00:08:03.760 It passed quickly as we know, emotions do. 00:08:04.229 --> 00:08:04.619 Chantel Allen: Yes. 00:08:05.580 --> 00:08:08.700 Mark Butler: Because what she facilitated for me was the allowing of 00:08:08.700 --> 00:08:11.020 the anger to just come up and be there. 00:08:11.400 --> 00:08:16.450 And I would say within minutes of the end of that zoom call, I was probably 00:08:16.450 --> 00:08:20.180 just bounding off to do whatever I was going to do for the rest of the day. 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:26.075 So , she did check in with me, but she didn't try to Take my negative 00:08:26.075 --> 00:08:28.414 emotion as a way of soothing herself. 00:08:29.525 --> 00:08:32.475 And I think coaches are probably very prone to that. 00:08:33.065 --> 00:08:35.004 Chantel Allen: And again, I don't think it's all or nothing. 00:08:35.004 --> 00:08:38.984 I think it's like, we can never leave them on a positive note, like always 00:08:38.985 --> 00:08:40.804 make them pain leave in a painful place. 00:08:40.815 --> 00:08:44.034 That's not what we're saying either, but it is, it's just watching our tendencies 00:08:44.034 --> 00:08:46.444 as coaches is like, what is the goal? 00:08:46.474 --> 00:08:49.314 And I know we always talk about, especially in the life coach school, 00:08:49.314 --> 00:08:51.014 just, we don't want to have agendas. 00:08:51.335 --> 00:08:53.895 But if we're not careful, we sometimes still have agendas. 00:08:53.905 --> 00:08:57.065 Like we say that logically, we don't want to have an agenda with our clients, 00:08:57.075 --> 00:09:01.145 but you can sometimes feel like if something's happening with a client 00:09:01.145 --> 00:09:05.085 or whatever, we might inadvertently step in with kind of an agenda of 00:09:05.094 --> 00:09:08.914 trying to get them to go someplace or feel something or whatever. 00:09:09.124 --> 00:09:09.324 Yep. 00:09:09.384 --> 00:09:13.685 And so it's just it's just, we want more observation with our coaching 00:09:13.745 --> 00:09:14.955 is really what it comes down to. 00:09:15.415 --> 00:09:18.415 Mark Butler: I heard, I won't remember where I got this the other day. 00:09:18.855 --> 00:09:20.195 Oh, I do remember where I got it. 00:09:20.215 --> 00:09:21.475 It was a TV show. 00:09:22.635 --> 00:09:27.175 It was almost like a documentary style show where a therapist's interactions 00:09:27.175 --> 00:09:32.875 with her clients were The show and it , I only made it through one episode. 00:09:32.875 --> 00:09:34.225 I actually ended up hating it. 00:09:34.225 --> 00:09:34.555 But, 00:09:36.885 --> 00:09:42.465 in one of the interactions in the show, a therapist said, our 00:09:42.465 --> 00:09:49.305 only job is to increase their understanding of the current dilemma, 00:09:49.425 --> 00:09:51.075 or it was something like that. 00:09:51.195 --> 00:09:53.445 I was like, that's, I'm stealing that. 00:09:53.445 --> 00:09:54.315 I don't like this show. 00:09:54.345 --> 00:09:55.545 I'm stealing that though. 00:09:55.575 --> 00:09:55.875 Yeah. 00:09:56.255 --> 00:09:59.585 Because yeah, we're trying to bring them into higher awareness. 00:09:59.825 --> 00:10:00.005 Chantel Allen: Yeah. 00:10:00.530 --> 00:10:02.200 Mark Butler: of what they're currently facing. 00:10:03.160 --> 00:10:07.380 I think there's some other contributing factors here to why we, 00:10:07.430 --> 00:10:11.980 and I include myself in this, why we might talk too much sometimes. 00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:16.279 Number one, I think we slip 00:10:19.019 --> 00:10:22.269 into the belief that coaching is more about answers than it is about questions. 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:22.299 Yeah. 00:10:22.630 --> 00:10:23.050 Agreed. 00:10:23.230 --> 00:10:24.370 Like by default. 00:10:24.700 --> 00:10:24.990 Yes. 00:10:25.100 --> 00:10:27.450 We think that coaches, coaching is about answers. 00:10:27.790 --> 00:10:31.830 And if coaching is about answers, then the quality of our coaching is 00:10:31.830 --> 00:10:37.530 determined by the answers we have the cleverness that we bring to a session. 00:10:38.870 --> 00:10:43.629 And if I believe that coaching is more about answers than questions, 00:10:43.629 --> 00:10:47.870 then I have to talk more because I have to share the answers. 00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:52.990 And I know that I slip into that sometimes. 00:10:54.745 --> 00:10:56.055 Hopefully the balance is right. 00:10:56.105 --> 00:10:58.035 But again, it's just something to pay attention to. 00:10:58.895 --> 00:10:59.115 Chantel Allen: One. 00:10:59.115 --> 00:11:02.134 I also think that if you have to know so much, then you have to 00:11:02.145 --> 00:11:04.264 constantly consume as a coach too. 00:11:04.264 --> 00:11:07.354 And again, I love to learn, but it's just, it's this vicious 00:11:07.354 --> 00:11:09.184 cycle of I have to know more. 00:11:09.185 --> 00:11:13.965 I have to go through more trainings or more, whatever certifications. 00:11:14.415 --> 00:11:18.485 And again obviously I'm offering a program, but it's there's a 00:11:18.485 --> 00:11:21.555 nuance to that too, where it's like, what are you trying to feed? 00:11:21.555 --> 00:11:23.114 You're trying to feed something. 00:11:23.564 --> 00:11:27.715 Cause I don't, I love knowledge, but I honestly what do you think? 00:11:27.725 --> 00:11:29.624 I know you gave a little bit of a definition there, but 00:11:29.624 --> 00:11:31.064 what is the purpose of a coach? 00:11:33.745 --> 00:11:38.015 Mark Butler: One of the most important purposes of a coach is to bring, is 00:11:38.015 --> 00:11:40.045 to, man, I'm not phrasing it well. 00:11:41.985 --> 00:11:47.184 It's to help their client connect to the truth, but that's not the same as 00:11:47.184 --> 00:11:49.085 connecting to the answer that I have. 00:11:49.714 --> 00:11:52.855 And it sounds really cliche and cheesy to say to help the client 00:11:52.865 --> 00:11:56.775 connect to their truth, but that is actually what I believe. 00:11:57.355 --> 00:11:57.915 Chantel Allen: I agree. 00:11:58.810 --> 00:11:59.510 Oh, I totally agree. 00:11:59.510 --> 00:12:03.000 I was listening to Oh my gosh, I'm going to get it all wrong. 00:12:03.300 --> 00:12:03.810 Hanks. 00:12:04.330 --> 00:12:05.360 I can't remember his name. 00:12:06.180 --> 00:12:09.780 The podcast, I can't remember, but he had another coach on and 00:12:09.780 --> 00:12:11.280 he was actually an athletic coach. 00:12:11.319 --> 00:12:14.979 And he said one of, he had one of his athletes come up to him years 00:12:14.979 --> 00:12:18.080 later and he said, you know what coach, the thing that helps me the 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:21.270 most about what you did is you never told me what to do and how to do it. 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:24.819 You just gave me the space and the unconditional love for me to figure, 00:12:24.819 --> 00:12:26.489 know that I had all my own answers. 00:12:26.510 --> 00:12:28.680 And I love that. 00:12:28.680 --> 00:12:32.950 I think to me, it's a coach and this is piggybacking off of yours. 00:12:32.970 --> 00:12:37.320 It's more of like we hold the space of unconditional love for them to be able 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:41.720 to have the ability to let the anger come out and let the other things come out 00:12:41.720 --> 00:12:43.680 without judgment or trying to fix it. 00:12:44.169 --> 00:12:45.909 It's actually Hey, I'm here. 00:12:45.909 --> 00:12:46.509 You're safe. 00:12:46.509 --> 00:12:51.070 You're let me just hold the space for you to let all of this unravel 00:12:51.070 --> 00:12:54.179 so that you can figure out the answers that are totally within you. 00:12:56.329 --> 00:13:00.079 Mark Butler: Some other time I want to do a call with you where we do 00:13:00.119 --> 00:13:02.729 talk about not the opposite of that. 00:13:04.239 --> 00:13:07.009 Cause I, it's I want to put in the footnotes right now. 00:13:07.259 --> 00:13:11.359 And I want to acknowledge that I completely agree with that. 00:13:11.769 --> 00:13:18.109 And I have experiences both as both client and a coach where suggesting an 00:13:18.109 --> 00:13:21.275 alternate reality is incredibly powerful. 00:13:21.275 --> 00:13:21.751 Yes. 00:13:21.751 --> 00:13:22.226 Agreed. 00:13:22.226 --> 00:13:23.177 Chantel Allen: Just not 00:13:23.177 --> 00:13:25.554 Mark Butler: in a gaslighting, terrible way. 00:13:26.304 --> 00:13:28.644 Chantel Allen: But again, Mark, I think it comes down to what you 00:13:28.644 --> 00:13:30.104 said, you've been the client before. 00:13:30.104 --> 00:13:33.644 So you've done the work to know what that balance could look like. 00:13:33.984 --> 00:13:37.444 So I think it is like understanding as a coach, if you have not done the 00:13:37.444 --> 00:13:41.474 deeper work to happen, to know and facilitate, Hey, how do I just hold 00:13:41.494 --> 00:13:42.774 unconditional love in this place? 00:13:42.794 --> 00:13:46.384 And how do I also facilitate a new reality here? 00:13:46.994 --> 00:13:50.094 Like you wouldn't be able to read the room a little bit better. 00:13:50.114 --> 00:13:53.654 If you've been on both sides, you've been willing to do the deeper work. 00:13:54.054 --> 00:13:54.354 Mark Butler: Yeah. 00:13:54.494 --> 00:13:55.184 Yeah, that's true. 00:13:55.184 --> 00:13:55.304 Absolutely. 00:13:55.869 --> 00:13:56.359 That's true. 00:13:57.509 --> 00:13:59.509 I want to talk to you about the deeper work in a second. 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:03.839 But first, I think there's another factor in why coaches can fall 00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:08.199 into the trap of talking more than listening, giving answers more 00:14:08.199 --> 00:14:10.139 than providing great questions. 00:14:10.739 --> 00:14:17.024 And that is, , most of what we observe in our community is answer giving. 00:14:19.994 --> 00:14:24.184 Five years ago now I was in a room with maybe 10 or 15 people who were all 00:14:24.524 --> 00:14:26.894 participants in a coaching program. 00:14:27.864 --> 00:14:30.514 And at some point in the interaction, I said, wait a second. 00:14:31.814 --> 00:14:37.954 Do you all think that coaching is 15 minute interactions? 00:14:39.064 --> 00:14:45.204 Where you're one of hundreds of people on the call and the coach is very clever 00:14:45.204 --> 00:14:50.994 and says some kind of mic droppy sorts of things and then we go on to the next 00:14:50.994 --> 00:14:56.104 person and the consensus in the room was. 00:14:56.789 --> 00:14:57.469 Yeah. 00:14:58.289 --> 00:14:59.019 Wow. 00:14:59.599 --> 00:15:02.269 And I said, okay, no problem. 00:15:02.309 --> 00:15:04.259 It actually doesn't mean that's bad. 00:15:05.859 --> 00:15:07.439 It means that's a way this happens. 00:15:07.439 --> 00:15:10.859 And I see so much benefit in that having happened in our 00:15:10.859 --> 00:15:12.009 world and in our community. 00:15:12.279 --> 00:15:12.589 Okay. 00:15:12.629 --> 00:15:17.129 Let me tell you about another type of coaching and in this type of coaching, you 00:15:17.129 --> 00:15:21.719 and I sit together for 50 minutes or an hour or more, and I ask you questions and 00:15:21.719 --> 00:15:23.919 I mostly keep my mouth shut and you talk. 00:15:24.264 --> 00:15:25.174 A lot. 00:15:25.334 --> 00:15:33.394 And you wander around and you change your mind and you go off on tangents and we 00:15:33.394 --> 00:15:39.594 just go exploring together and they were surprised and curious that was a thing. 00:15:40.314 --> 00:15:40.914 Chantel Allen: Yeah. 00:15:40.924 --> 00:15:41.854 So I think it's 00:15:42.224 --> 00:15:45.114 Mark Butler: because it's most of what people observe and it's 00:15:45.114 --> 00:15:46.674 a lot of what coaches observe. 00:15:48.644 --> 00:15:53.114 Then when they get into interactions with their clients, they pretty much just 00:15:53.124 --> 00:15:55.044 do what they've had modeled for them. 00:15:56.584 --> 00:15:56.984 Chantel Allen: Agreed. 00:15:57.644 --> 00:15:58.634 It's so it's performative. 00:15:58.654 --> 00:16:00.354 It's a performative coaching almost. 00:16:00.734 --> 00:16:01.608 Mark Butler: It can be. 00:16:01.608 --> 00:16:02.162 Yeah. 00:16:02.162 --> 00:16:02.716 Chantel Allen: It 00:16:02.716 --> 00:16:03.824 Mark Butler: can be. 00:16:04.184 --> 00:16:06.614 And that's frustrating sometimes, but yes. 00:16:07.144 --> 00:16:08.224 Chantel Allen: But I understand it too. 00:16:08.244 --> 00:16:09.874 Cause I've been in the room sometimes where I'm like, Oh 00:16:09.874 --> 00:16:11.264 my gosh, like that hit me. 00:16:11.264 --> 00:16:12.194 I appreciate that. 00:16:12.414 --> 00:16:14.504 So we do try and mirror that. 00:16:14.504 --> 00:16:14.839 Yep. 00:16:15.209 --> 00:16:18.569 But I also know, and I don't know if this is also true, even though 00:16:18.569 --> 00:16:22.519 that hit me, it still didn't transform me because it's just a good 00:16:23.199 --> 00:16:24.989 statement or it's a good, whatever. 00:16:24.989 --> 00:16:26.539 It just still didn't take me deeper. 00:16:26.809 --> 00:16:27.789 If that makes any sense. 00:16:27.829 --> 00:16:28.229 So 00:16:28.479 --> 00:16:30.669 Mark Butler: it does make total sense to me because one of the things that 00:16:31.439 --> 00:16:36.064 I feel like I observe In my fellow coaches who've mostly experienced 00:16:36.064 --> 00:16:40.344 that type of coaching and, or what they did in their certification 00:16:40.344 --> 00:16:48.214 programs is they tend to reach for the tools that their community has named. 00:16:48.214 --> 00:16:50.614 And like these are our tools. 00:16:51.324 --> 00:16:54.804 They tend to reach very quickly for those tools, both in their 00:16:54.804 --> 00:16:57.894 interactions with their clients and in their interactions with themselves. 00:16:58.324 --> 00:16:58.594 Yeah. 00:16:58.684 --> 00:17:02.004 And my observation in coaching some of them one on one is. 00:17:02.529 --> 00:17:08.879 They're too quick to reach for a tool and it robs them of the deeper experience, 00:17:08.879 --> 00:17:12.109 the deeper insight into themselves. 00:17:13.499 --> 00:17:17.979 I can reach for a tool as a way of deflecting and avoiding, and it's 00:17:18.219 --> 00:17:20.259 actually way too easy to do that. 00:17:20.669 --> 00:17:26.389 So I will sometimes hear myself saying to a client who's a coach, if they wanna 00:17:26.389 --> 00:17:34.729 reach for a tool in the conversation and use it to deflect, I will do something, 00:17:34.729 --> 00:17:36.139 which I think is pretty transparent. 00:17:36.139 --> 00:17:37.459 I don't think I'm so clever. 00:17:38.029 --> 00:17:41.329 I pretty much will say, okay, just pretend that I don't know what that means. 00:17:42.654 --> 00:17:46.504 How would you say that if I didn't know what that means? 00:17:46.624 --> 00:17:46.954 Chantel Allen: Yes. 00:17:48.234 --> 00:17:51.314 Mark Butler: And I'm just trying to redirect them off the tool as an escape 00:17:51.314 --> 00:17:58.744 hatch and get them back into okay, but what are your thoughts and your feelings? 00:17:58.764 --> 00:18:00.254 And can we spend time there? 00:18:00.844 --> 00:18:01.434 Chantel Allen: I love that. 00:18:01.454 --> 00:18:04.314 I love that so much because again, it's, you're asking questions, you 00:18:04.314 --> 00:18:05.674 don't know where they're trying to go. 00:18:05.674 --> 00:18:09.784 It's, you're just facilitating okay you've put a cap on. 00:18:10.199 --> 00:18:13.279 What you're wanting to see, can we go below that for a little bit? 00:18:13.289 --> 00:18:13.719 So 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:15.149 Mark Butler: I think that's beautiful. 00:18:15.529 --> 00:18:21.639 When you say deeper work what does, what are examples of deeper work in your mind? 00:18:22.749 --> 00:18:26.129 Chantel Allen: So I spoke to it just a little bit, but I can go a 00:18:26.129 --> 00:18:29.489 little bit deeper if we need to with this, but I just, so even on the last 00:18:29.489 --> 00:18:33.059 podcast I was on, we talked about the fact that I am an overachiever. 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:35.409 I love to prove things. 00:18:35.409 --> 00:18:37.849 I love to I'm just, I love to hustle. 00:18:38.484 --> 00:18:43.544 And I understand now that a lot of that, and I'm not again saying it's bad. 00:18:43.544 --> 00:18:46.344 I think being able to get things done is an amazing thing. 00:18:46.364 --> 00:18:52.654 However, what I've often learned is those type of behaviors is usually out 00:18:52.684 --> 00:18:59.364 of some kind of trying to hide away from some kind of thing that I grew up with, 00:18:59.384 --> 00:19:04.839 or I'm trying to not feel a certain thing, or I'm not trying to Whatever 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:08.229 it is, like some kind of uncomfortable, negative emotion of some kind. 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:13.639 And so now I'm realizing we have to do the deeper work in order for us 00:19:13.639 --> 00:19:16.199 to really facilitate an open space. 00:19:16.199 --> 00:19:17.769 I think about this with my kids all of the time. 00:19:19.169 --> 00:19:22.909 If I as a mom, I'm trying to be a good mom because I just don't want 00:19:22.909 --> 00:19:27.439 to feel like I'm a bad mom, then I'm weird in my interactions with my kids. 00:19:28.364 --> 00:19:32.064 So I have to actually, and I know it sounds cliche, it sounds 00:19:32.064 --> 00:19:33.184 whatever, but I have to heal. 00:19:33.184 --> 00:19:34.344 I have to heal that part of me. 00:19:34.344 --> 00:19:38.254 That's so afraid to be a bad mom, because that's something that I 00:19:38.314 --> 00:19:41.314 grew up understanding or whatever, like you shouldn't be a bad mom. 00:19:41.574 --> 00:19:42.784 Your kids need to be happy. 00:19:43.014 --> 00:19:44.704 They all need to follow this straight path. 00:19:45.074 --> 00:19:48.134 And it just, I can see how that has created different 00:19:48.144 --> 00:19:49.964 interactions in my kids. 00:19:50.264 --> 00:19:52.534 So it's the willingness for me to go and be like, you know what? 00:19:53.004 --> 00:19:55.954 And this sounds so weird to say it out loud, but I'm okay to fail as a mom. 00:19:55.984 --> 00:19:58.274 I don't even know what that means, but that's what we're so afraid 00:19:58.274 --> 00:20:01.764 of is I'm okay to fail as a mom. 00:20:02.154 --> 00:20:05.304 I'm okay for my kids to not like me. 00:20:05.324 --> 00:20:05.994 I'm okay. 00:20:05.994 --> 00:20:09.324 And even as I say that I can feel the resistance in my body, but I'm like, 00:20:09.654 --> 00:20:13.844 that's what actually you have to be okay with in order for me to show up and be 00:20:13.874 --> 00:20:15.584 the mom that I actually do want to be. 00:20:16.469 --> 00:20:20.019 And so it's the same thing if we translate that over to our coaching, I noticed 00:20:20.019 --> 00:20:23.209 at least for the first couple of years, I what we were already saying, like I 00:20:23.209 --> 00:20:26.569 needed to prove I need to get so many clients in a certain way in order for 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:28.019 me to feel like I'm doing a good job. 00:20:28.029 --> 00:20:30.749 I'm like, what if I am okay with not getting another client? 00:20:31.449 --> 00:20:32.699 Like what happened there? 00:20:32.709 --> 00:20:36.569 And again, so much resistance comes up, but I have to heal that. 00:20:37.099 --> 00:20:41.049 In order for me to show up authentically vulnerability, like all the things 00:20:41.049 --> 00:20:44.919 that we talk about, I have to do that deeper work first in order for me to 00:20:44.919 --> 00:20:46.449 actually be the coach that I want to be. 00:20:49.349 --> 00:20:50.279 Mark Butler: That's really good. 00:20:51.269 --> 00:20:55.369 This idea of the way you just said that made me think getting 00:20:55.369 --> 00:20:57.569 clients isn't about the clients. 00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:01.349 If my added, if I'm, if I feel driven or anxious or urgent about 00:21:01.379 --> 00:21:05.199 quote, getting clients, that's not about them or for them. 00:21:05.199 --> 00:21:06.849 It's about me and for me. 00:21:08.589 --> 00:21:12.329 Chantel Allen: And it's tricky because of course we do also have yes, I do want to 00:21:12.329 --> 00:21:16.689 help my clients, but I think it, like what you said, the anxiety, the pressure that's 00:21:16.689 --> 00:21:20.159 there, that's an indicator that there's something else that's going on there. 00:21:22.129 --> 00:21:24.169 What if we never get another coaching client? 00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:27.099 What do we make that mean about ourselves? 00:21:27.499 --> 00:21:29.969 What if we don't make another dollar in our business? 00:21:29.979 --> 00:21:31.399 What do we make that mean about ourselves? 00:21:31.869 --> 00:21:35.579 That will tell you a wound or something that is you're operating 00:21:35.579 --> 00:21:38.879 from that is usually actually preventing us from getting our clients. 00:21:38.889 --> 00:21:40.189 Cause whatever we resist. 00:21:40.654 --> 00:21:41.094 We persist. 00:21:42.259 --> 00:21:44.689 So if you're so afraid of not getting clients, guess what? 00:21:44.769 --> 00:21:46.729 You're not going to get any clients. 00:21:47.109 --> 00:21:48.779 So it's just crazy what we do. 00:21:49.479 --> 00:21:54.669 Mark Butler: When you imagine working with coaches on these kinds of things, 00:21:55.229 --> 00:21:59.494 like in this new program, how do you imagine the interactions going? 00:22:00.494 --> 00:22:03.004 Chantel Allen: I honestly, it is a lot of just coaching them. 00:22:03.269 --> 00:22:06.429 And just understanding what their underlying beliefs and things 00:22:06.429 --> 00:22:09.629 that they, again, it's the blind spots, like being able to hold the 00:22:09.629 --> 00:22:12.859 space for them to see what they haven't allowed themselves to see. 00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:16.989 But I've, so I've done this with so many coaches already up to this point. 00:22:17.019 --> 00:22:20.419 And the thing that I hear over and over again is You show me 00:22:20.419 --> 00:22:21.899 what powerful questions look like. 00:22:22.129 --> 00:22:24.989 And just asking me those questions has made me a better coach. 00:22:25.059 --> 00:22:29.739 Because if you go through that experience, you're obviously embodying it. 00:22:30.029 --> 00:22:31.819 So sometimes we like put so much into it. 00:22:31.819 --> 00:22:34.939 I need to be mentored or I need to, and I get that. 00:22:34.949 --> 00:22:39.979 But I think again, you living through your own coaching experience. 00:22:40.029 --> 00:22:41.329 That is training. 00:22:41.389 --> 00:22:43.619 That is you going through and getting mentored. 00:22:44.149 --> 00:22:47.399 I'm more than happy to in our coaching sessions, if they have a specific question 00:22:47.399 --> 00:22:48.929 about Hey, can we talk about this? 00:22:49.389 --> 00:22:50.189 Absolutely. 00:22:50.429 --> 00:22:53.649 But I probably will always bring it back to what are you making it mean 00:22:53.659 --> 00:22:57.789 about this interaction or what is coming up for you in that interaction? 00:22:59.719 --> 00:23:01.599 Mark Butler: It can be really hard when someone's asking you a 00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:05.459 tactical question to tell them. 00:23:06.389 --> 00:23:09.149 Your tactical question is the wrong question. 00:23:10.359 --> 00:23:14.679 And I have to be careful because I do have a know it all tendency and 00:23:14.679 --> 00:23:18.189 my know it all tendency can rear its head in a client relationship. 00:23:19.049 --> 00:23:22.429 So sometimes my urge to say your tactical question is not relevant 00:23:22.429 --> 00:23:24.899 right now is actually it hurts trust. 00:23:24.899 --> 00:23:25.669 It hurts rapport. 00:23:25.669 --> 00:23:27.689 And I think it can hurt the coaching relationship. 00:23:27.769 --> 00:23:33.019 So I try to put myself in check and also. 00:23:33.659 --> 00:23:40.259 I want them to hear me say, you're asking me about this little tactical 00:23:40.269 --> 00:23:41.969 thing here about your practice. 00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:49.589 I'm promising you that absolutely nailing that little thing about your practice 00:23:49.679 --> 00:23:52.809 will have no impact on your practice. 00:23:53.139 --> 00:23:53.449 Chantel Allen: Yeah. 00:23:53.609 --> 00:23:54.849 Mark Butler: It's inconsequential. 00:23:54.849 --> 00:23:56.249 It's fun to think about. 00:23:57.059 --> 00:23:58.399 It's a fun place to play. 00:23:58.399 --> 00:24:04.559 Maybe it's an amazing distraction, but even if you absolutely nail 00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:10.289 it, there will be no measurable positive impact on your practice. 00:24:11.479 --> 00:24:17.549 I'll give you an answer, but i'm going to follow that answer with remember This is a 00:24:17.549 --> 00:24:21.959 lot more about you and your internal state than it is about any specific tactical 00:24:21.959 --> 00:24:24.949 application of a thing in your practice 00:24:25.634 --> 00:24:27.634 Chantel Allen: Cause I'm sure if you any of the coaches that are listening 00:24:27.634 --> 00:24:30.504 here, they may have been like, I've tried all of the things I've checked off 00:24:30.514 --> 00:24:33.844 all the boxes and I'm still not getting clients or I'm still not whatever. 00:24:33.844 --> 00:24:37.424 So it is, it's, if you start to look at it, like really the boxes 00:24:37.434 --> 00:24:39.904 are not what create our business. 00:24:40.434 --> 00:24:40.974 It really is. 00:24:40.994 --> 00:24:44.354 I've noticed this change and I love this phrase that I heard someone say that it's 00:24:44.514 --> 00:24:46.314 it's, we're shifting from hustle to heart. 00:24:47.429 --> 00:24:50.799 And I love that so much because it really is like the hustle used to 00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:52.399 work back in the 60s and the 50s. 00:24:52.439 --> 00:24:55.529 It needed to it was something that we needed. 00:24:55.529 --> 00:25:00.079 We had to perform, but I really do believe where we are right now in this society 00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:02.709 and where we are is just human beings. 00:25:02.709 --> 00:25:04.439 And we have to stop hustling so much. 00:25:04.449 --> 00:25:05.149 It's not working. 00:25:05.169 --> 00:25:08.594 Like you literally, I talked to so many people, like I'm working 80 hours a 00:25:08.594 --> 00:25:11.444 week, or I'm working 60 hours a week, and I'm just not making ends meet. 00:25:11.454 --> 00:25:12.674 I'm like, I know. 00:25:12.984 --> 00:25:16.744 So let's slow down and let's understand what is going on. 00:25:17.254 --> 00:25:21.894 It's that whole cliche of slow down to make more slow down to have more impact. 00:25:21.904 --> 00:25:27.044 It's we say it, but I think a lot of coaches want to put the, but, or the 00:25:27.054 --> 00:25:31.724 and on top of that to say no, but I really do need my websites or I really do 00:25:31.724 --> 00:25:33.934 need my Instagram, or I really do need. 00:25:33.934 --> 00:25:36.624 And I'm like, That's what is that solving for? 00:25:36.634 --> 00:25:38.864 You're solving for something that you're not letting yourself see. 00:25:39.884 --> 00:25:40.094 Mark Butler: Yeah. 00:25:40.094 --> 00:25:40.244 Yeah. 00:25:40.244 --> 00:25:40.744 That's true. 00:25:41.354 --> 00:25:41.944 That's true. 00:25:42.624 --> 00:25:45.214 We will still do tactical things in the business. 00:25:45.224 --> 00:25:48.944 We'll have a, we'll have a plan in our business that may include a website 00:25:48.964 --> 00:25:51.964 or an Instagram page, feed, whatever. 00:25:53.274 --> 00:25:57.554 It's how we view those things and how we view their importance in the 00:25:57.604 --> 00:25:59.444 creation of the practice we want. 00:25:59.704 --> 00:26:00.024 Chantel Allen: Yes. 00:26:02.254 --> 00:26:04.184 Mark Butler: That obsessing over those things. 00:26:04.284 --> 00:26:09.239 It doesn't, It's not going to, it's not going to compensate you for the obsession. 00:26:09.449 --> 00:26:11.379 You won't get paid for that work. 00:26:12.029 --> 00:26:16.409 You get paid for the internal work and then you figure out how to express 00:26:16.409 --> 00:26:18.959 the internal work in the, it might be expressed through a podcast. 00:26:18.959 --> 00:26:22.169 It might be expressed through one on one conversations offline. 00:26:22.169 --> 00:26:24.039 It might be expressed through a website. 00:26:24.049 --> 00:26:25.419 It might be expressed on Instagram. 00:26:25.679 --> 00:26:30.009 The way you express the internal work varies, but. 00:26:30.604 --> 00:26:32.014 You have to express internal work. 00:26:32.014 --> 00:26:36.444 If the internal work isn't there, what in our particular coaching community, 00:26:36.444 --> 00:26:40.304 all of us who were born and raised in the life coach school community, 00:26:43.414 --> 00:26:50.254 the days of checking off to dues associated with our businesses setting 00:26:50.254 --> 00:26:55.844 up a Facebook campaign or whatever the days of that producing any sort of. 00:26:56.204 --> 00:26:58.004 Reliable result are gone. 00:26:59.004 --> 00:26:59.844 It it is. 00:27:00.274 --> 00:27:00.884 Over. 00:27:01.434 --> 00:27:03.954 Now, that doesn't mean that Facebook campaigns don't work. 00:27:03.954 --> 00:27:06.854 What it means is just the act of checking the box. 00:27:06.964 --> 00:27:07.404 Yes. 00:27:07.524 --> 00:27:08.744 I have my website. 00:27:08.744 --> 00:27:10.234 I have a Facebook page. 00:27:10.234 --> 00:27:11.384 I have a campaign. 00:27:11.384 --> 00:27:12.134 I have written an ad. 00:27:12.514 --> 00:27:18.864 Checking those things off by itself, it, it doesn't produce any, unless 00:27:18.864 --> 00:27:22.664 it's supported by the internal work, the character, then there's 00:27:22.674 --> 00:27:23.634 nothing that's going to come of that. 00:27:24.649 --> 00:27:27.919 Chantel Allen: And I've noticed that lately, even for myself, is I've 00:27:27.919 --> 00:27:29.749 started to go back to Instagram finally. 00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:33.159 But I noticed for a long time it was like, oh, this is what I'm supposed to do. 00:27:33.159 --> 00:27:33.999 I'm supposed to get on here. 00:27:33.999 --> 00:27:35.499 I'm supposed to post every single day. 00:27:35.499 --> 00:27:36.729 I'm supposed to put on a story. 00:27:36.729 --> 00:27:40.479 And it just felt so heavy and so just overwhelming. 00:27:40.859 --> 00:27:43.679 And I would be so much in my head of what do I have to put out there? 00:27:43.679 --> 00:27:44.879 How do I say it the right way? 00:27:44.879 --> 00:27:45.479 How do I. 00:27:45.864 --> 00:27:46.464 Whatever. 00:27:46.484 --> 00:27:50.504 And what's so interesting in the last probably two or three months, as I've been 00:27:50.504 --> 00:27:54.984 still doing my own work on this of trying to calm down the prover, the whatever 00:27:54.984 --> 00:27:58.374 inside of me, it's so much easier. 00:27:58.404 --> 00:28:01.234 Like I will just have a moment where I've done maybe an hour of 00:28:01.244 --> 00:28:02.554 silence or something like that. 00:28:02.904 --> 00:28:04.414 I just naturally like, Oh, you know what? 00:28:04.444 --> 00:28:05.714 I want to share this with everybody. 00:28:05.724 --> 00:28:09.644 And it takes me two seconds to get on my Instagram really 00:28:09.644 --> 00:28:11.244 quickly, create something. 00:28:11.734 --> 00:28:12.964 And I just let it go. 00:28:12.974 --> 00:28:17.264 I'm not attached to how many likes or how many, and it's been fascinating. 00:28:17.294 --> 00:28:21.224 How many more DMS, how many more likes, how many more shares, because 00:28:21.234 --> 00:28:25.294 I'm not attached to what it is that I'm putting out there anymore. 00:28:25.374 --> 00:28:25.604 Yep. 00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:27.449 And it's coming so much easier. 00:28:27.449 --> 00:28:29.039 And I think that's what coaches need to realize. 00:28:29.209 --> 00:28:32.179 If we're not trying to prove anything to yourself, or if you're not trying 00:28:32.179 --> 00:28:35.209 to solve for something for you, your clients are going to be, there'll 00:28:35.209 --> 00:28:36.719 be so much more attracted to that. 00:28:36.849 --> 00:28:40.859 Cause I really do believe people can feel when you need something from them. 00:28:41.019 --> 00:28:41.929 Mark Butler: Oh, absolutely. 00:28:42.689 --> 00:28:43.499 Chantel Allen: So it is. 00:28:43.869 --> 00:28:48.059 Yes, you might have the answer, but if you're doing it to you feel 00:28:48.059 --> 00:28:49.769 it's like this manipulation almost. 00:28:50.309 --> 00:28:51.349 Mark Butler: Oh yeah, it is. 00:28:51.349 --> 00:28:57.419 It is that, you just said the phrase an hour of silence. 00:28:58.004 --> 00:28:58.494 Chantel Allen: Yeah. 00:28:58.874 --> 00:28:59.394 Mark Butler: What? 00:29:00.504 --> 00:29:00.694 What? 00:29:02.054 --> 00:29:02.464 Chantel Allen: Yeah. 00:29:02.474 --> 00:29:03.104 I know. 00:29:03.714 --> 00:29:04.074 I know. 00:29:04.074 --> 00:29:07.764 And this is weird coming from me who is like such a busy body used to be. 00:29:07.784 --> 00:29:11.194 I really, I've got to stop saying that because that's not how I identify anymore. 00:29:11.204 --> 00:29:16.544 But I, so I obviously I'm a member of the church, Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. 00:29:16.554 --> 00:29:20.144 And we really talk about prayer and holding space and meditation. 00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:22.439 And it was from At One Mint. 00:29:22.449 --> 00:29:25.059 I don't, I'm sure maybe a lot of your people are familiar 00:29:25.059 --> 00:29:27.019 with Thomas McConkie's book? 00:29:27.169 --> 00:29:27.659 Yes. 00:29:27.729 --> 00:29:27.959 Yep. 00:29:28.049 --> 00:29:30.379 His At One Mint book talks a lot about that. 00:29:30.379 --> 00:29:34.149 It just, it's so interesting in this day and age, we want answers, 00:29:34.579 --> 00:29:38.219 but again, we think we have to have all of our answers consuming it. 00:29:38.659 --> 00:29:42.309 And he created this idea, not created, he just, he shares this 00:29:42.309 --> 00:29:44.329 idea of, we need more space. 00:29:44.729 --> 00:29:48.269 We need more space in order for us to actually connect to ourselves more 00:29:48.299 --> 00:29:52.049 to connect to even being able to be divinely guided is what I really do 00:29:52.049 --> 00:29:57.229 believe is we can't stay so busy and try to consume all of our answers. 00:29:57.239 --> 00:29:59.499 It's, are you willing to sit in silence? 00:30:00.059 --> 00:30:03.239 And let whatever needs to come up, whatever needs to 00:30:03.249 --> 00:30:04.949 be felt needs to be felt. 00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:08.329 I will tell you when I say it, people are like, Oh, that it 00:30:08.339 --> 00:30:11.889 first off, they're like, it sounds miserable, but it's not, I promise. 00:30:12.249 --> 00:30:14.329 But also I think people think it's supposed to be like this 00:30:14.339 --> 00:30:16.449 positive, beautiful thing. 00:30:16.449 --> 00:30:20.169 And I'll tell you lawyers a lot of times where it's just like a squirrel nonstop. 00:30:20.199 --> 00:30:21.869 Like it's just like anything else. 00:30:21.879 --> 00:30:23.779 It's my brain wants to run the show. 00:30:24.339 --> 00:30:28.079 But I, it's, I think again, it's like the experience of getting on the treadmill 00:30:28.089 --> 00:30:30.369 of I'm just getting on to show myself. 00:30:30.809 --> 00:30:34.319 I can sit here and this is just as valuable as me doing 00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:36.559 anything else, if not more. 00:30:36.589 --> 00:30:40.349 And I will say when I do those things, I have way more energy. 00:30:40.609 --> 00:30:41.679 I have way more focus. 00:30:41.709 --> 00:30:46.059 I have way more, it's just crazy what again, slowing down 00:30:46.449 --> 00:30:47.919 does for us in the long run. 00:30:50.484 --> 00:30:52.594 Mark Butler: I'm fighting the urge to ask you about all the tactics 00:30:52.594 --> 00:30:54.524 associated with your hour of silence. 00:30:55.404 --> 00:30:59.724 So I'm not going to, because the essence of it seems to be 00:30:59.804 --> 00:31:02.554 you sit in silence for an hour. 00:31:02.904 --> 00:31:03.344 Yes. 00:31:03.494 --> 00:31:03.824 How often do you do that? 00:31:03.824 --> 00:31:04.374 And however you 00:31:04.374 --> 00:31:04.964 Chantel Allen: read that. 00:31:05.074 --> 00:31:05.794 Like however you read that. 00:31:05.794 --> 00:31:06.814 Cause some people are, they do. 00:31:06.824 --> 00:31:08.674 They're like, does it have to be an hour? 00:31:09.044 --> 00:31:10.334 Do you listen to guided meditation? 00:31:10.334 --> 00:31:13.014 And I'm like, whatever feels the best to you, again, my 00:31:13.014 --> 00:31:14.854 way may not be the best way. 00:31:14.854 --> 00:31:16.744 So it is like learning, okay. 00:31:16.744 --> 00:31:17.734 Take the meat of it. 00:31:18.094 --> 00:31:20.864 And then create it however it feels good for you to create it again. 00:31:20.864 --> 00:31:22.394 Don't get so caught up in the tactics. 00:31:23.364 --> 00:31:26.924 Mark Butler: Are you pursuing a specific state at the end of that hour? 00:31:29.184 --> 00:31:32.564 I don't imagine it happens every time, but do you finish an hour of silence and 00:31:32.604 --> 00:31:37.154 have you identified a sort of quality of being at the end of that, where you say, 00:31:37.154 --> 00:31:40.724 yeah, that was what I wanted from this experience today, or that's, I want that 00:31:40.734 --> 00:31:42.114 to be what I get from this experience. 00:31:42.544 --> 00:31:45.754 Typically, or how do you think about the whole habit? 00:31:46.524 --> 00:31:47.464 Chantel Allen: I love the question. 00:31:47.504 --> 00:31:50.614 And I think it's, I don't have an answer for every single time. 00:31:50.644 --> 00:31:54.064 I, my goal more often than not, it's what I do, even with my coaching sessions, 00:31:54.074 --> 00:31:57.774 I try not to go into it with an agenda of any kind, because then I feel like 00:31:57.774 --> 00:31:59.354 it's a controller in me a little bit. 00:31:59.364 --> 00:32:02.989 That's coming out to try and get to a destination by the time that I'm done. 00:32:03.929 --> 00:32:06.609 But there is those times where I go into where I'm maybe I'm 00:32:06.609 --> 00:32:08.169 really struggling with something. 00:32:08.529 --> 00:32:12.099 And so I am more, I think of it like more of a prayer or a conversation 00:32:12.099 --> 00:32:14.709 where I just this is where I'm at. 00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:16.119 Like I'm struggling with this. 00:32:16.774 --> 00:32:19.934 I've just be very careful about not getting attached to trying to get 00:32:19.934 --> 00:32:24.384 to an answer or peace or clarity. 00:32:24.544 --> 00:32:26.554 Would that, I would, I like that totally. 00:32:26.594 --> 00:32:29.584 But I feel like if I try to get there, that's where I have a lot of judgment 00:32:29.584 --> 00:32:33.164 about it or I'll get done with an hour and be like, I didn't get anything out of it. 00:32:33.174 --> 00:32:35.984 So why am I even doing it again? 00:32:36.674 --> 00:32:38.304 So I think it's different every single time. 00:32:38.344 --> 00:32:42.294 I just, my ultimate goal is just more connection to myself. 00:32:42.749 --> 00:32:47.169 And then mine is to my Heavenly Father, too, where it's just I want this hour, 00:32:47.489 --> 00:32:53.229 because I truly believe coaching is such a beautiful conduit for, I think, for a 00:32:53.229 --> 00:32:55.159 Heavenly Father to help us guide people. 00:32:55.649 --> 00:32:56.039 more. 00:32:56.729 --> 00:32:59.099 That's just me putting a little bit more of my faith into it. 00:32:59.109 --> 00:33:03.669 But that's what I want is if I bring more of that into this, 00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:05.619 I find my day goes easier. 00:33:05.649 --> 00:33:07.889 I feel like I'm guided a little bit more on how to say things 00:33:07.889 --> 00:33:09.299 because I'm not in control. 00:33:09.809 --> 00:33:13.299 I'm never in control, but I like, I have that surrender moment in the morning. 00:33:13.609 --> 00:33:15.029 It helps me throughout the rest of the day. 00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:19.769 Mark Butler: This is the kind of work you'd invite other coaches to. 00:33:20.339 --> 00:33:20.749 And 00:33:20.879 --> 00:33:22.339 Chantel Allen: absolutely if they wanted to. 00:33:22.769 --> 00:33:25.129 And I think, again, there's a lot of coaches that I've worked with 00:33:25.129 --> 00:33:26.279 that are not of the LDS faith. 00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:27.419 And that's, I think it's great. 00:33:27.589 --> 00:33:31.749 Like connect to the universe, connect to higher power, like whatever it is for you. 00:33:32.109 --> 00:33:34.649 But I do find us stopping the control. 00:33:34.949 --> 00:33:36.709 That's, I think the biggest thing as coaches, we're trying to 00:33:36.709 --> 00:33:40.419 control too much and just notice that controlling isn't working. 00:33:41.414 --> 00:33:44.204 So it's more of a surrendering moment, whatever you want to surrender to, 00:33:44.204 --> 00:33:47.664 whether it even just is to yourself or to whatever you believe in. 00:33:48.204 --> 00:33:49.834 I would encourage more people to do that. 00:33:52.954 --> 00:33:53.874 Mark Butler: Powerful stuff. 00:33:53.884 --> 00:33:56.894 I think maybe we'll end there for today. 00:33:58.334 --> 00:33:58.544 Sounds 00:33:58.544 --> 00:33:58.764 Chantel Allen: good. 00:33:59.804 --> 00:34:03.014 Mark Butler: We just sent people to do you have ChantelleAllen. 00:34:03.014 --> 00:34:03.264 com? 00:34:03.264 --> 00:34:04.374 ChantelleAllenCoaching. 00:34:04.374 --> 00:34:04.574 com. 00:34:04.894 --> 00:34:05.134 Chantel Allen: Yep. 00:34:05.184 --> 00:34:08.274 And I can also give you a link that goes directly to getting on this wait list. 00:34:08.324 --> 00:34:11.394 If they want to just click on that, it'll launch on the 22nd. 00:34:11.534 --> 00:34:12.084 So 00:34:13.044 --> 00:34:13.554 Mark Butler: I. 00:34:14.294 --> 00:34:17.634 I am excited for anyone and everyone who goes through this experience with 00:34:17.634 --> 00:34:22.464 you, because I do feel very strongly. 00:34:22.474 --> 00:34:29.404 And I think I have a lot of evidence that a coach becomes a different coach, 00:34:29.444 --> 00:34:36.904 a different practitioner after working with their own coach and doing a different 00:34:36.914 --> 00:34:42.434 type of work in a one on one setting than they ever do in a certification 00:34:42.434 --> 00:34:44.984 program, a group experience, a membership. 00:34:45.549 --> 00:34:46.919 I have my own membership now. 00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:51.899 I would never, I don't want anyone to ever think that participating 00:34:51.899 --> 00:34:57.659 my membership is a substitute for a one on one coaching experience. 00:34:57.719 --> 00:35:01.119 One of the reasons I make the membership so cheap, frankly, is that 00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:04.929 I don't want it to feel competitive with money that people might spend 00:35:06.219 --> 00:35:08.379 on a one on one coaching experience. 00:35:11.704 --> 00:35:12.964 I have been coached by you. 00:35:12.964 --> 00:35:14.394 I was coached by you last week. 00:35:15.474 --> 00:35:15.694 And 00:35:15.694 --> 00:35:18.054 Chantel Allen: I 00:35:18.054 --> 00:35:19.184 Mark Butler: was a sneak attack by me. 00:35:21.134 --> 00:35:23.974 And I really appreciate the space. 00:35:23.974 --> 00:35:25.434 You hold the questions. 00:35:25.434 --> 00:35:28.604 You ask the neutrality. 00:35:30.584 --> 00:35:34.264 More people need to have coaching experiences with coaches like you. 00:35:34.474 --> 00:35:36.524 Some of them are going to have coaching experiences with you, but 00:35:36.634 --> 00:35:39.794 more coaches need to have coaching experiences with coaches like you. 00:35:39.844 --> 00:35:47.354 So we will send them to that wait list and we're figuring out how you're going to be 00:35:47.354 --> 00:35:49.174 a contributor to the office hours program. 00:35:50.114 --> 00:35:50.414 Chantel Allen: Okay. 00:35:51.034 --> 00:35:51.134 Mark Butler: I would 00:35:51.134 --> 00:35:51.774 Chantel Allen: love that. 00:35:51.904 --> 00:35:53.094 I would love that so much. 00:35:53.134 --> 00:35:54.494 Mark Butler: This is me cornering you. 00:35:54.794 --> 00:35:55.134 Chantel Allen: Okay. 00:35:55.644 --> 00:35:57.294 Mark Butler: In public and demanding it. 00:35:57.814 --> 00:35:59.674 Yeah, I think you have so much to offer and to give. 00:35:59.674 --> 00:36:02.314 And so I'm excited to figure out what that looks like. 00:36:02.754 --> 00:36:03.414 Chantel Allen: Happy to help. 00:36:03.534 --> 00:36:06.264 And that's, I think it is, it's just more of I want to help serve 00:36:06.474 --> 00:36:10.914 because we need more coaches that are can get this out to more people. 00:36:11.004 --> 00:36:12.624 So I totally agree with that. 00:36:13.554 --> 00:36:13.934 Mark Butler: I do. 00:36:14.644 --> 00:36:23.044 I want there to be so many internally regulated, loving, 00:36:23.124 --> 00:36:27.364 skillful coaches out in the world. 00:36:27.494 --> 00:36:28.364 Chantel Allen: Yeah, 00:36:28.644 --> 00:36:31.954 Mark Butler: your practice, my practice, lots of coaches practices stay pretty 00:36:31.954 --> 00:36:38.254 full, which means we want there to be a lot more coaches to serve the 00:36:38.254 --> 00:36:40.744 people that don't have a coach yet. 00:36:42.454 --> 00:36:45.594 There's no shortage of people who would benefit from the 00:36:45.594 --> 00:36:47.214 support of a skillful coach. 00:36:48.094 --> 00:36:51.414 Chantel Allen: And if you believe that it's too saturated, that's another 00:36:51.414 --> 00:36:54.314 reason why to get your coaching because there's a belief there too. 00:36:54.354 --> 00:36:57.634 Cause I noticed I get caught up in that as well, where I was like, Oh, there is 00:36:57.794 --> 00:37:00.574 Mark and there is Chantel and they are whatever they've taken all the clients. 00:37:01.094 --> 00:37:02.914 I promise you, I echo what Mark says. 00:37:02.914 --> 00:37:07.814 There's so many people, even right now in this economy that need you 00:37:08.444 --> 00:37:11.794 and they will invest in you, but you have to believe that first. 00:37:13.674 --> 00:37:13.904 Mark Butler: Yeah. 00:37:13.904 --> 00:37:16.024 And you have to believe they're there. 00:37:16.044 --> 00:37:18.214 And frankly, you have to stop thinking about it. 00:37:18.414 --> 00:37:18.844 Yes. 00:37:18.844 --> 00:37:18.904 Absolutely. 00:37:19.389 --> 00:37:19.839 Yes. 00:37:19.989 --> 00:37:21.819 Stop thinking about the economy. 00:37:21.829 --> 00:37:23.289 It's so indulgent. 00:37:24.609 --> 00:37:25.369 Stop it. 00:37:25.749 --> 00:37:27.159 Stop thinking about competition. 00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:28.199 Stop thinking about the economy. 00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:30.269 It doesn't matter. 00:37:30.299 --> 00:37:37.109 Yes, there are a jillion coaches but somehow it doesn't impact a skillful 00:37:37.109 --> 00:37:38.989 coach's ability to serve clients. 00:37:39.989 --> 00:37:44.159 Chantel Allen: Cause they need you not another coach. 00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:44.729 They need you. 00:37:44.729 --> 00:37:47.139 And that's why I think you doing your deeper work will 00:37:47.139 --> 00:37:48.709 attract the right people to you. 00:37:48.769 --> 00:37:51.689 The people that you've gone as deep with yourself, they 00:37:51.689 --> 00:37:52.949 will want that same deepness. 00:37:54.019 --> 00:37:56.509 And I, there are still a lot of coaches out there and again, they're great 00:37:56.509 --> 00:37:58.169 at the how tos and the strategies. 00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:01.479 What we're talking about is no, there's a lot of those. 00:38:01.509 --> 00:38:03.749 We want the deeper stuff that really does move the needle. 00:38:04.969 --> 00:38:05.739 Mark Butler: Yeah, totally agree. 00:38:07.539 --> 00:38:08.349 Thank you, my friend. 00:38:08.699 --> 00:38:09.639 Chantel Allen: Yeah, this is fun. 00:38:09.819 --> 00:38:14.239 Mark Butler: Always great to catch up with you and We'll talk to all 00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:15.149 of you in the audience next time.