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This file was generated by Descript 

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Speaker: Welcome to Real Estate is Taxing,
where we talk about all things real estate

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tax and break down complex concepts into
understandable, entertaining tax topics.

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My name is Natalie Kalady, I'm
your host, and I am so excited

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that you've decided to join me.

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Microphone (Shure MV7): Hello.

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Hello everyone.

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Welcome to today's episode.

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I would like to start by
taking you guys with me.

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On a little journey.

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Into Facebook.

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I've been in a Facebook group
before for tax professionals.

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Where in response to a question.

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A another tax professional will
provide something from the IRS website.

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Or I have been in Facebook
groups for real estate investors.

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Where someone will ask
a tax question that is.

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Incredibly complicated.

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Only to be met with multiple
responses of how easy this is and

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it walks you right through it.

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In an IRS publication.

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Well, these are both
some type of guidance.

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Neither of these.

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Our authority.

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So in today's episode.

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I'm going to walk you guys through.

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What the various levels of authority
are when it comes to taxes.

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And what you can rely on.

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When you're looking at all of these
different forms of information.

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It's kind of like a game
of rock, paper, scissors.

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There's always something
that trumps something else.

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So just because it might
be easier to find a rock.

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Doesn't mean it's going to be paper.

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Microphone (Shure MV7)-3: So now that
we've established that there is very much

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a hierarchy when it comes to guidance.

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Let's start at the top.

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When it comes to who
creates these tax laws?

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It's the same people who
create all of our laws.

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This all has to come from Congress.

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The IRS is not who writes
or creates tax laws.

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All of the tax laws are combined.

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Into what we call the
internal revenue code.

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The IRC.

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When you see part of the internal
revenue code sighted, it's going to

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start with two little squiggly SS.

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This is typically called a
section mark or silk Crow mark.

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So it looks like two
overlapped squiggly SS.

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And then it'll have a code
section and some subsections.

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So it might be Silkroad,
mark squigglies, 4 69.

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E three.

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Whatever those section is,
and that's going to be.

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Your top, most authority on a tax matter.

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Is that literal code?

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Now.

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I don't know if you've ever tried
to just read through laws as they're

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written, but it's not very intuitive.

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And it's a learned skill.

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So even though the internal revenue
code is your top source for proof.

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It's hard to interpret and read.

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And just apply to any
normal day-to-day situation.

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That's why we then have
these lower sources.

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Of guidance that while
they're less authoritative.

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Break things down, farther and
farther into everyday English.

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Microphone (Shure MV7)-5: The first
source of this interpretation is going

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to be the U S treasury regulations.

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This is where the treasury department and
the IRS goes in and they provide guidance.

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For this new legislation or for things
that are passed in the tax code.

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They're typically published
in the federal register.

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And opened up for public input
first as a proposed regulation.

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And then eventually.

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They will lead to a final regulation
or sometimes a temporary regulation.

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And then they republish that as well.

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Treasury regulation is still
considered authoritative.

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When it comes to something you
can use to form a tax position.

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When you see a treasury regulation,
it's going to look really similar to a

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citation from the internal revenue code,
but it'll typically have a one dot.

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And then a code section.

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So instead of the double squiggle yes.

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That Silkroad symbol.

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And then.

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Code section 4 69 E three.

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It would be something like one dot 4 69.

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B seven.

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Microphone (Shure MV7)-6: These treasury
regulations are going to give you

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a good place to read more expanded
information on that code section.

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And they typically have several
examples that walk through applications

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of that tax code section as well.

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when I'm saying whether
something is authority or not,

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or if it can be relied upon.

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Anything you're putting on a tax return
is a position you are taking a stance

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that you are allowed to do something.

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And something that is authority is
what you are basing that position on.

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So once we get past the internal revenue
code, the treasury regulations that

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further expand on it, give some examples,
explain it a little more clearly.

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We then have a lot of different courts.

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That we can use for some guidance.

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So historical authority from different
court rulings, judicial authority.

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Gives us multiple areas that we can see.

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How the courts have interpreted
these laws historically.

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And depending on how similar the facts
are and if it is in the same circuit.

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We can have different levels of
reliability of the, those decisions.

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Obviously the highest court
we have is the Supreme court.

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But more often what you're typically
going to seek guidance come from.

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We'll be the U S tax court.

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you'll also see quite a bit come
through in some district courts, but

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also through the court of appeals.

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So being able to look
back at these court cases.

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And correctly apply
facts and circumstances.

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And the specifics of the case that led
that court to rule one way or another,

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what facts they specifically focused on.

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What code sections, they referenced
back to what earlier cases they

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referenced back to is going to help
you substantiate and really define

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your position on something tax wise.

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Because it is based on judicial history,
it is based on something that has been

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looked at and interpreted by the courts.

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And you have some guidance
on how they feel about it.

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Once we've looked at all of these options.

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Now we're down to the area where
the IRS really comes into play.

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And I've seen more than once.

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Where someone will post an
internal revenue code section.

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Defining a matter and someone's rebuttal.

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Is like the IRS FAQ or
the IRS publication on it.

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Again, it's a rock paper
scissors scenario here.

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And if the internal revenue code is paper.

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An IRS publication is a rock.

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So you could not use it to argue
against the highest guidance.

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It's an interpretation of that.

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And it's pretty well
watered down at that point.

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When you consider.

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That the us tax code is over 70,000 pages.

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There's obviously a dwindling
down of the information.

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This is its purpose is to summarize.

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So taking the spark notes
version of something.

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And using it to argue a very specific
sentence from the actual book.

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Doesn't work.

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It doesn't work here either.

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Once we get into the layers
of what the IRS provides.

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And their levels of authority.

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At the top, we have revenue rulings.

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These are an official IRS interpretation
of an internal revenue code.

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And these we can use as authority.

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Below that is a rev
proc revenue procedure.

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And this is also an interpretation.

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But this is more on the how to, so
this is how to comply with that law.

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And you can also use this as authority.

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So these are your two.

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Highest and best uses of IRS guidance
that can still be relied upon.

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Once we get below that.

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We start to get a little hazier.

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The IRS can also issue
private letter rulings.

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And this is basically a written statement
by the IRS to interpret a facts and

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circumstances of the law ahead of time.

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As it relates to a specific
taxpayer it's something, a specific

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taxpayer submits to have done.

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And it is not something that
you can rely on as authority.

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For any other person.

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they are made public after.

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Everything was issued.

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But it's just for informative purposes.

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It's not something you can base your
own position on your tax return about.

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So even if you find a private letter
ruling online, that is the exact same

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circumstances as your tax situation.

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You can not rely on that for authority.

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Microphone (Shure MV7)-7:
In kind of the same bucket.

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We also have technical advice memorandums.

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So these are provided by the office of
chief counsel and it's of request or

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based on a request from an IRS director or
something related to appeals in response

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to a specific technical issue where
their deans to be more in depth guidance.

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So a very similar thing here.

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it's just overall guidance.

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So any of the items in this
category, Like your private letter

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rulings, your technical advice,
memos, your chief counsel memos.

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These can't be leaned on
as substantial authority.

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They're more just provided to give you
insight to certain issues and they might

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reference back to items or court cases
that could be substantial authority.

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So there are a great starting point.

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But you can't hang your hat
on one of these IRS positions.

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It's not going to be authoritative
for the position you are

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taking on your tax return.

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Then at the very, very,
very bottom of the list.

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Is what we see most often referenced.

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This area is going to be IRS forms.

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The form instructions.

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IRS publications.

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The FAQ's.

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Information that is
provided on the IRS website.

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So any of this is only for guidance
and it should not be your sole piece.

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Of information.

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Any of these items are a clarifying
simplified spark notes version.

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Of multiple levels of specific law and
higher interpretation and court cases.

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And once it is all pulled together.

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Into the recap.

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That's what the sources are.

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So IRS publications are something
that get referenced incredibly often

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and they are a great starting point.

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Or a great place to understand
the basics of something.

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If it is a cut and dry,
very standard scenario.

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It will not have coverage of every
nuance of that tax code section.

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It won't even cover most of them.

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It's going to break out the simplest
forms of each of these things.

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And it's going to highlight the
steps to find out how to apply it.

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And often there will be worksheets
or graphics and things to really help

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someone who is not a legal expert.

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Figure out.

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The general.

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Intention of this code, what
you generally can and can't do.

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So, well, IRS publications are fantastic
and they are a great place to understand

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the big picture of what you're facing or a
great starting place for your information.

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It is not substantial authority.

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So if you are audited, And there have
been multiple things, multiple situations

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I've come across where something in
the tax code versus what's in the

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publication or what is on an IRS form.

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Instruction are different.

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Where something is outdated or
where it oversimplified something.

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And if you say under audit
that, well, I did it because

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this publication said I could.

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That's not going to be.

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Authority, you can base your position
on, so that can be disallowed.

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Because again.

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These publications are really just.

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The super simplified
interpretation of the actual law.

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And so it's not your encompassing guide.

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Microphone (Shure MV7)-8: If you are
a tax professional, listening to this.

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And you weren't aware at all of
these various levels of authority.

00:14:01.578 --> 00:14:02.538
No shame.

00:14:03.228 --> 00:14:09.528
It is not common at all for this to be
taught or emphasized at a lot of firms.

00:14:10.068 --> 00:14:14.508
And if you are a solo practitioner,
you're someone who went out on your own.

00:14:14.868 --> 00:14:16.668
And you're new in the industry.

00:14:17.388 --> 00:14:20.118
You wouldn't know this
without someone telling you.

00:14:20.178 --> 00:14:24.828
So consider this your starting point
that if going to the IRS website or

00:14:24.828 --> 00:14:29.838
going to publications to find your
answers is your current standard.

00:14:30.588 --> 00:14:34.428
That that is not what you can
actually base the tax returns on.

00:14:34.998 --> 00:14:40.758
And do you need to start being able to
trace your way up the fact sheet going

00:14:40.758 --> 00:14:46.098
from those publications up into some of
the court cases that interpret something.

00:14:46.398 --> 00:14:51.468
Reading the treasury regulations
and even going to the actual tax

00:14:51.468 --> 00:14:57.708
code, because those are going to be
your substantial authority pieces.

00:14:58.398 --> 00:15:00.198
You need to be able to say.

00:15:00.738 --> 00:15:02.778
If a client's return is questioned.

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We took this position.

00:15:05.478 --> 00:15:10.368
I felt I could do this because of
this code section says this, this and

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this, and in a similar court case,
this court felt this way about it.

00:15:15.858 --> 00:15:17.298
Another case felt this.

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And this is all of my proof.

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Well, the publications and IRS website
are great for simplified quick reference.

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I understand that a lot of tax prepares
focus on getting through a lot of tax

00:15:32.038 --> 00:15:38.218
returns during season, but this is
the downside to that volume model.

00:15:38.938 --> 00:15:43.018
Is that you don't have time
to do actual research without

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going deeper than the summary.

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And summaries are just that.

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And they easily miss unique situations.

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And you're always going to
run into unique situations.

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We've worked our way from the top down.

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Congress makes the laws, those laws
are in the internal revenue code.

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That is your holy grail of tax guidance.

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From there, we have the
treasury regulations.

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This is where the treasury
department and IRS directly

00:16:11.148 --> 00:16:13.938
interprets that code expands on.

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It gives you examples.

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That is a fantastic place
to get more guidance.

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We go down into court cases and how courts
have looked at these issues historically.

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And then we go into that
IRS simplified information.

00:16:30.958 --> 00:16:35.308
that is very broad and can't
be relied on for proof.

00:16:35.638 --> 00:16:38.608
But we'll help guide you
through how to handle things.

00:16:39.398 --> 00:16:41.918
basically the spark notes version.

00:16:42.308 --> 00:16:44.198
Of that classic novel.

00:16:44.588 --> 00:16:47.108
So it is helpful and it
gets you through the class.

00:16:47.348 --> 00:16:50.918
But you are missing a lot of
the important information.

00:16:51.418 --> 00:16:54.268
At the very, very, very
bottom that I shouldn't even

00:16:54.268 --> 00:16:55.828
have to mention, but I will.

00:16:56.668 --> 00:16:58.318
It's going to be things.

00:16:58.858 --> 00:16:59.428
Like.

00:17:00.188 --> 00:17:04.658
Blogs, YouTube videos, social media posts.

00:17:05.318 --> 00:17:10.058
Even CE classes, if you're a tax
professional and you take a CE class to

00:17:10.058 --> 00:17:12.098
get your continuing education credits.

00:17:12.668 --> 00:17:14.168
That's not authority.

00:17:14.978 --> 00:17:16.478
It's a great way to learn.

00:17:17.048 --> 00:17:21.158
But I have come across plenty of
classes with mistakes in them.

00:17:21.788 --> 00:17:27.668
So you are best served to find classes
that have actual citations in them.

00:17:28.238 --> 00:17:31.898
Or where the instructor provides a
good supplement with citations, because

00:17:31.898 --> 00:17:33.548
that's what you need to rely on.

00:17:34.298 --> 00:17:40.088
So if you come across, an article from,
even if it's an accounting publication,

00:17:40.088 --> 00:17:44.408
or if you're an investor listening to
this, and there's something posted on

00:17:44.408 --> 00:17:48.758
an investor website related to taxes,
even if it is published by someone

00:17:48.758 --> 00:17:52.808
you would consider to be reputable,
you can't lean on that at all.

00:17:53.308 --> 00:17:54.868
So a great starting point.

00:17:55.078 --> 00:17:59.878
If you come across a video, Where
they say something interesting

00:18:00.268 --> 00:18:03.298
or it's something that tax wise
you're like, oh, I didn't know.

00:18:03.298 --> 00:18:04.258
I could do that.

00:18:04.978 --> 00:18:05.848
Wonderful.

00:18:06.298 --> 00:18:09.448
It's whole purpose should be to
spark that piece of interest.

00:18:09.808 --> 00:18:14.728
And then you have to go find the
actual sources that either prove or

00:18:14.728 --> 00:18:17.008
disprove what that person is saying.

00:18:17.488 --> 00:18:19.588
Remember that everyone making content.

00:18:20.128 --> 00:18:21.298
Has a motive.

00:18:21.588 --> 00:18:26.328
It's not always to put out the most
clear, concise and accurate information.

00:18:26.868 --> 00:18:31.098
Sometimes it's to put out the
most exciting 3%, even if it

00:18:31.098 --> 00:18:32.508
might be a little misleading.

00:18:32.898 --> 00:18:34.758
Because you're more likely to click on it.

00:18:35.688 --> 00:18:39.468
So those things should only be
your starting point to lead you

00:18:39.468 --> 00:18:44.808
back up these levels of actual
authority for tax matters.

00:18:45.798 --> 00:18:50.568
And I will end this episode with
just a note to tax professionals

00:18:50.568 --> 00:18:52.308
who might still be listening.

00:18:52.848 --> 00:18:55.068
That if you have a client come in.

00:18:55.638 --> 00:18:59.418
And they send you one of those
videos or they bring in an article.

00:18:59.868 --> 00:19:02.628
Or they open their phone
and show you a tick talk.

00:19:03.348 --> 00:19:06.918
I know a lot of professionals
who blame everything on that.

00:19:07.418 --> 00:19:09.068
Bad social media advice.

00:19:09.338 --> 00:19:11.498
They heard this crazy thing on Tik TOK.

00:19:12.098 --> 00:19:15.368
They need to stop Googling things
and looking on the internet.

00:19:15.548 --> 00:19:17.588
They're just finding stuff on Instagram.

00:19:18.428 --> 00:19:21.938
And while some of that might be justified.

00:19:22.718 --> 00:19:25.898
Most of that bad information
stems from something.

00:19:26.508 --> 00:19:28.608
So even if what they've shown you.

00:19:29.028 --> 00:19:31.038
Sounds so obscure.

00:19:31.368 --> 00:19:33.528
That you want to just dismiss it.

00:19:34.068 --> 00:19:38.118
There's a good chance that there's
some amount of truth in that tax

00:19:38.118 --> 00:19:42.438
strategy or that creative thing,
or whatever was said in that video.

00:19:43.068 --> 00:19:46.878
The idea of why they could
do that came from somewhere.

00:19:47.358 --> 00:19:49.548
So try to find out what that is.

00:19:49.848 --> 00:19:51.888
It might be something you don't know.

00:19:52.338 --> 00:19:55.788
Or it might be something where, what
the video is saying, isn't quite right.

00:19:56.118 --> 00:19:58.308
But what it really means is this.

00:19:58.758 --> 00:20:03.678
And they could maybe use this tax
strategy if they also did a, B and C.

00:20:04.248 --> 00:20:08.118
So just my final note, if you're
a tax professional, don't be

00:20:08.118 --> 00:20:10.398
so quick to dismiss things.

00:20:10.398 --> 00:20:12.138
Clients find on social media.

00:20:12.648 --> 00:20:15.108
It all comes with some
little tidbit of truth.

00:20:15.378 --> 00:20:19.608
And I think it is our job to hunt
it and figure out what that is

00:20:19.728 --> 00:20:21.438
so we can best help our clients.

00:20:21.938 --> 00:20:24.908
As always, I hope you
guys found this helpful.

00:20:25.418 --> 00:20:31.118
If you can think of a nother tax
professional who could benefit from

00:20:31.118 --> 00:20:35.258
this episode, someone who is new
in their career, maybe, and they're

00:20:35.258 --> 00:20:36.998
trying to learn how to better research.

00:20:37.448 --> 00:20:38.888
Please share this with them.

00:20:39.218 --> 00:20:41.468
If you liked it, please subscribe.

00:20:41.498 --> 00:20:45.188
Give it a thumbs up, share it with
people you think would also enjoy it.

00:20:45.698 --> 00:20:47.168
And as always.

00:20:47.738 --> 00:20:49.538
I will talk to you guys next week.

00:20:50.378 --> 00:20:52.618
Mhm.