Sam: Welcome to another episode of Unashamed Unafraid.
We are unashamed of sexual addiction recovery and unafraid
of coming unto Christ for healing.
Mason, let's check in man.
How's recovery going?
Dude, it's, it's difficult, but it's good.
I feel like I'm, right now, I'm in a, in a spot where I'm just
really deconstructing a lot of stuff in my life that was built up.
My therapist, Jason, right?
Shout out Jason.
He calls like, there's a lot of names for names for it, but the fault self, I
just feel like I'm having to deconstruct all this stuff, the ego, right.
That has built up these things, shame, different beliefs.
And I I'm spending a lot of time.
deconstructing this.
So it's just this, it kind of feels like constant battle right now.
, You said the other day when we were on the phone, like, I don't know, man, I
don't even know where I'm at in recovery.
It just feels like it's this constant, just like learning,
growing, overwhelm, pushing.
That's a lot, man.
Yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of unlearning to learn a new way.
Yeah, well said.
And part of that is really just learning what my recovery looks like, so.
Yeah, and it's hard because I've had this experience a million times in recovery,
but a fish doesn't know it's in water.
So when you realize you're in water for the first time, suddenly
everything is in question.
Yeah.
Yeah, especially when you were like in fire for your whole life, you know,
I'll check in to I actually relapsed last night and I'm a dude I'm struggling.
I'm struggling with it.
I'm going you know Weeks months actually we're kind of at that point
where I can get over a month in between relapses, but When I do, it's just hard.
It's super hard.
Um, it really impacted my wife last night and I didn't, I didn't wait.
I mean, I told her like 30 minutes later.
I just was not going to carry that shame.
I was ready to be accountable, but
sure.
That's why we do this.
Yeah.
That's
why we do this.
Yeah.
We talked a lot last night.
A lot of, a lot of shame to unpack there.
Yeah.
So
there's a lot of shame to unpack there.
Yeah.
One thing for the audience before we start is We have not raised all of
our scholarship money for the year So if you're out there in podcast land
There's a lot of good that we can do with these scholarships and we typically
scholarship I don't know we we do over 1213 scholarships every single year to
send men and women to warrior heart glory retreat and heart of a woman They're, in
my opinion, a top five life experience.
Warrior Heart changed my recovery.
Become an outsider donate maybe just five bucks a month That's gonna help
us a ton to reach our goal of sending more men and women on scholarship to
those retreats you can head over to unashamed unafraid calm forward slash
donate We have a really really cool episode today We don't actually do this
very often But we invited a guest back.
She was so good.
We had to have her on twice and she hates that I'm, that I'm
building her up like this right now.
Roxanna Johnson, who you may remember several months ago, we posted an episode
on betrayal trauma and she talked a little bit about the ideas in her book
surrounding wives who are forgotten in the battle of sexual addiction.
And And that is the title of her book.
Forgotten In The Battle of Sexual Addiction by Roxanna Johnson.
Roxy: Yeah.
And it, and it also has the journey of a, of a spouse.
'cause there's a lot of my story in it.
Speaker: Yes.
Yeah.
And, and that's what's, as I, as I read through, I haven't read the whole
book, but I've read certain little, little chapters here and there.
I just, boy, the authenticity was beautiful.
You said things in a way that I don't hear very often.
Roxy: I tried to be vulnerable.
Because there's so few resources like that, and I wanted to walk with
each person that read it through the process and show them that it's an
up and down process and that, , it can be hard, but it's worth it.
So as I listened to you, you to check in, , I am always struck by
the parallels between, the person who struggles with compulsive behaviors
and the person who loves them.
Their, their paths of recovery and healing parallel each other a lot.
And, , the beauty is, is that when both partners can understand that,
they can start helping each other live the principles of recovery, in
love rather than in fear and anger.
And my husband and I did both.
So it's, it's not like it comes naturally.
You have to work at it.
Speaker: Right.
One thing that I just have really enjoyed in working with you is, is
what you just talked about, right?
Just the, the ability to just find, find the beauty in that journey, right?
It can be really, really difficult to navigate the ups and downs,
and men and women who love each other have to navigate it together.
Roxy: Uh huh.
But, but I don't want to make someone feel guilty or, think they're,
they must be doing it wrong because they don't feel that way yet.
People that listen to me have to understand that I
was raised in a home with.
addiction.
And then I've married addicts.
And so I've had, decades to look at this.
And, my husband Jack and I worked at recovery really, really hard for, About
three years before the marriage stabilized because, when he disclosed it was so bad
and, and then we continued working at it.
So I just want to give people hope that if they're still in those trenches where
they're working their guts out and it doesn't feel real good that there is hope.
Speaker: Well you've arrived at the right place because Mason
and I we're working our guts out.
Absolutely, that's
exactly where I'm at.
And it doesn't feel very good, Roxy.
Roxy: But it's
But as someone who's loved people that chose recovery and loved people
that didn't choose recovery because remember, I've had multiple marriages.
Speaker: Yeah.
Roxy: I want you to know That when people choose recovery, I
have I have nothing but admiration Because I know it's a hard road.
Speaker: Thank you.
Thank you.
So I have a question for because I feel like those that are feeling like they're
in the the non stop battle of recovery that a lot of times that's at the
beginning and I know for my wife and I It was, the idea was very much, this is my
thing, and I'm bringing her into my thing.
It wasn't like we both have a recovery journey to walk.
It was basically Mason's gotta quit looking at porn.
And, that was the idea.
And it wasn't until, uh, Probably a year later when we both started realizing like
we both got some work to do, you know, we both have recovery journeys to walk.
So what would you say to wives that maybe are thinking that like,
if this is my husband's problem, he's got to get it taken care of.
Roxy: So what I would say is that.
When you live with someone who has compulsions or addictions, it changes you.
Speaker: Sure.
Roxy: Okay, because there's dysfunction.
Okay.
And, and in a close relationship, especially a marriage, you
create a dance of sorts.
And when one person enters recovery those dance steps change.
For a spouse to say, this is his problem.
Speaker: Yeah.
Roxy: Or this is her problem.
That's not correct because that spouse has participated in the dance
as well and there's, You know, I, I want to be careful here because
betrayal trauma is a real thing.
It's cellular.
Speaker: For sure.
Roxy: And, and when my husband first disclosed, I went into shock and it
took some therapy and some groups for me to come down from being
hypervigilant just a physical mess.
Speaker: Yeah.
Roxy: But when you step back and you start to see this dance you might be really
mad at them, but you care about them.
And so you start to say, okay, where did I help in this dance or,
or maybe a better place because I spent the first two years mad.
Speaker: Yeah.
Roxy: I was furious.
Speaker: Yeah.
Roxy: But you have to remember that my husband disclosed to me
secret behavior that had gone on for 24 years before he disclosed.
So I was furious for a time.
But.
I started realizing that the addiction was a piece of him.
It wasn't all of him.
And because I was raised in that alcoholic home, I already recognized
that I had behaviors that weren't what I hoped they would be too.
So, I think that humility did, did help me.
But.
I don't want to say to someone who is angry, Oh, just get over it because
I took my time and getting over it.
For
Speaker: sure.
Roxy: But I do want to say that if, if the spouse can stand back
and say, okay, I love this person.
This is something that.
They struggle with, but they're working at it, and I'm going to
look for the good things in them.
That's no different than any other marriage.
And in many ways, working this recovery gave Jack and I the tools we needed to
have a really, really good marriage.
Marriage.
Speaker: Yeah.
Roxy: When I talk to my children now, or when I talk to grandchildren and they know
someone they're dating has a struggle, my first question is, are they working on it?
Do they recognize that they have a problem?
Because in today's world, the person who recognizes that they struggle and then
works on it, Is quite a bit farther ahead and in my mind has a lot more integrity
than someone that says, nah, I don't have a problem, but they really do.
Does that make sense?
Speaker: Yeah.
So people who end up, people who choose recovery end up having
quite a bit more reciprocated love in their relationships long term.
When they choose to heal together.
Roxy: I believe that.
Okay.
So we're going to take Jack and I again.
Um, he passed away after we had been working recovery for about 10 years and
had strong recovery for about seven.
And we had spent a lot of time helping other couples.
But during that time, he had Um, a lot of health problems, and that
put us in hospitals, which were trigger points for him and for me.
Um, he had access to opioids.
Working recovery allowed us right up until he passed to be able to be best friends
and talk about slips and dysfunction when we saw it in either one of us.
Speaker: Yeah.
Roxy: Because we were under tremendous pressure.
And so yes, he, we were best friends.
Speaker: You know, I think it's funny cause you said a little earlier, , it
reminded me of what me and my wife have talked a lot about, and I think
that If you do have both parties surrendering, that God has a funny
way of using something like addiction.
To expose the ways that you can heal and become best friends and have
this beautiful, wonderful marriage.
Roxy: I agree with that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Roxy: I, I agree completely with that.
So, so just to give some context to maybe those spouses that are still
in that place where they're like, this is his problem and I'm angry.
So, um, I want to tell you when I really put up the white flag.
Okay, there were a couple of instances, but surrendering
didn't come very natural to me.
It doesn't come very natural to a lot of spouses and that's because
in these relationships, it's often their job to keep things running.
Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Roxy: And so when even when their spouse says, Hey, I'm going to work at recovery.
A lot of times they're like, yeah, and I'm going to help.
And, okay, um, I was that way, and Jack was not recovering at
the speed I wanted him to recover.
Speaker: Imagine that.
Roxy: You know, he was pretty deep in the addiction when he disclosed, and so
he didn't think the same way as he had.
And we had some knock down, drag out fights.
Speaker: Sure.
Roxy: And one of them I journaled about, and to prepare for tonight, I looked up
that, , entry and it was, it made me cry because it tells another truth that might
not be true of you guys's relationships.
You both seem pretty humble, but Jack was not humble and he was scared and
we had had a knockdown drag out fight and he wanted to shut me out again.
And That really triggered me and I pushed on the door and my heart was screaming.
Oh, no, you don't you are not going to shut me out again.
And in the process, it just made the fight blow up even more.
And what I wrote is, , back to that dance.
I said, I have got to quit this, damaging dance.
We have, I've got to give up.
I've got to surrender this to God because I had been praying whether
I could leave the marriage or not.
Things were so bad and the answer was no.
And so it just felt like God was taunting me with lots more pain.
in my future.
But what I wrote is I have to trust God.
I have to trust that he has something in mind.
And at that point, it did not look like recovery would have ever been an option.
But that's what surrender is to me letting go and turning the
outcomes over to Jesus Christ.
Okay.
And the irony is when I finally learned that from these very painful
things to surrender my will to God.
Um, it gave me back my life power.
It gave me back the ability to choose how I was going to respond
in a given day, in a given moment.
And it gave me back my power to choose what I wanted for my life.
Not only that, but you guys ask your wives about this.
But it also gave Jack back his power to choose.
Yeah.
Speaker: You
know, that's a fascinating process.
And I love how you described that there was some resistance.
Initially.
Oh,
Roxy: there
Speaker: was a
Roxy: lot.
Speaker: Some, some was the wrong thing.
It was a lot of resistance initially, probably at least partially due to
the immense amount of pain and grief.
Roxy: And hurt.
Speaker: Yeah.
Hurt.
Roxy: Yes.
Speaker: I'm wondering what are, I mean, I would love to know this for my own wife
so I can, I can be aware of this dynamic.
What are some of , the defenses that show up for a woman who's
trying to surrender this to God?
And move into a healthier place when she is in this place of hurt.
Roxy: I think fear.
You, you are afraid you're going to lose even more than you
feel like you've already lost.
Um, Or you fear that the pain is going to continue forever.
But the irony is by surrendering, we give our pain to God.
It isn't that it completely leaves, but you give the outcome
of that pain, um, to your God.
And, and.
And he's able to give you acceptance about what your life
is and that gives you a measure of peace in your day to day actions.
I brought, a saying that I kept by my bed for a long, long time
because it reminded me of this.
It came from one of those calendars that have thoughts.
Thanks.
And so I can't even tell you who said it, but it says surrender and rigid control
are opposite sides of the same energy.
Control is resistance.
Surrender is acceptance.
Control is believing you know what's best.
And surrender is believing the universe or God is working through you.
So that, that terribly painful surrender experience I told you
about with Jack, you know, I went and debriefed it with my counselor and
we talked about my want to control.
She said to me That must be a terrible burden filling all that responsibility
because I thought, again, back to a lot of times it's the spouse's job to
keep things running or they think it is and everybody thinks it is, meaning
I'm talking the family , she just said, boy, that must be a terrible
burden, that over responsibility.
And I think that's the first time my body let go.
I actually felt like a hundred pounds came off of me for just an
instant when I realized it wasn't my job whether Jack recovered or not.
That was his choice.
He had to choose whether he was going to choose the marriage.
He had to choose whether he was going to love me.
Okay.
And, and the other thing that came from that is she said, you don't
trust the process, do you Roxy?
And, and so your wife's might really resonate with that because
at first I said, what do you mean?
And she says, you don't trust that the universe is going to take care of this,
that all you have to do is do your best and it'll work out as it should.
The more I thought about that, the more I thought, no, I don't trust the process.
There's been lots of stuff in that process that has been so painful, but
I discovered through years of working recovery that that was me not accepting
that God had a purpose in that process.
And since then, I've been able to say, without that process, I wouldn't
be the person I am, nor would I have the peace in my life that I have.
It's not like my life has been a poster.
I've lost Jack, I tried to remarry, and that ended in divorce.
But working the principles of recovery, and dealing with grief and
surrender, I've been able to reclaim the peace that my life is okay.
Um,
Speaker: as you're speaking, you're talking about this dynamic, I
feel, you know, like a big desire.
Like I want to help my wife with this.
My eyes are being open to the pain I'm causing her.
My eyes are being open to the reality of the journey she's, she's taking with me.
And
Roxy: what a beautiful thing.
And I just want to shout out to all the spouses out there.
It is a journey you're taking with a loved one, and God sees you in that journey.
And he sees both of you.
So I want to shout out to those who struggle too for taking the journey.
But from my standpoint of years later, it can be a beautiful thing.
Speaker: What would you say to someone like me who wants to support their wife?
I mean, because you, you highlighted right off the bat, right?
Like to try to help, right?
Quotations help.
Our best efforts to help can be very, very dysfunctional on both sides.
Roxy: On both sides.
Yes.
Speaker: If I want to support my wife, Roxy, what does that look like?
Roxy: See her.
Speaker: Okay.
Roxy: See her.
when you See her and you acknowledge her pain, she's able
to also acknowledge her pain.
And then she can surrender that pain to her God, to her higher power.
So another thing about surrendering though, when you're in those trenches
and you're mad as hell, like I was, the thought of surrendering was so
foreign to me because in some ways you have to get still to surrender, right?
and busyness was and is a coping mechanism I use.
, But I want to tell listeners that ironically I found that movement
with breath helped me to get steel.
And that can be in the beginning years I ran and just that steady rhythmic
pounding of the pavement with breath, I would, I would start my runs very
agitated and I would end them being able to surrender that day to God.
I later learned, because I'm a yoga instructor, that when you bring breath
and movement, especially across the midline, you help your thinking brain re
engage, the parts of your brain to talk to each other, and that allows the brain
to become more still, and that's when you are more able to use your thinking
power to give the pain to your God.
Because one of the first steps that I discovered to surrender was I
had to emotionally regulate myself.
Okay.
And this movement with breath can be, um, regulating, especially
when somebody is in those beginning stages of betrayal, trauma.
Everybody gets to find their own way.
But I remember on those runs, and I would do them in the early morning,
I remember sometimes physically like reaching to my heart to pull the pain
out and physically handing it over.
You're in charge of this today.
I need to live today.
So will you take my pain?
And, and it sounds weird, but it worked for me.
Speaker: It's funny you started this out by saying the similarities of Spouses
and those that have close behavior because I'm sitting here thinking
like, oh, that's me Like I hate pain.
I don't want to sit with pain, you know And so everything you're
saying Applies to me right now.
I think me and my wife are kind of in similar boats with that aspect is It's
just such this it's this deep visceral reaction to pain like running away
from pain And I liked how you How you put it, cause that, that meditation,
right, that running, I think is a huge part of being able to face your pain.
Roxy: Uh huh.
Speaker: Face your pain.
Roxy: Yeah.
To sit down and look at it.
And, and that's what surrender allows you to do as well.
Because to surrender it, you have to know what it is.
You have to say, you have to get past the anger and, and you
can surrender your anger too.
Absolutely.
And you get past the anger and, and that's when you can kind of take it
out and look at it and say, actually, father in heaven, I am so disappointed.
This was a hope and a dream of mine, and it seems to be lost.
Or, you know, this is so much different than I expected.
I really have seen in my life that God makes beauty from ashes.
But it's really important for spouses to be able to hand him those ashes and
say, This is what I feel right now.
He can take it.
He can take you being mad.
He can take you being despondent.
In fact, he wants to.
is my experience.
And then when you are able to surrender to your higher power, and you see what
you're surrendering, that's where that empowerment comes for you to step back
and say, Okay, now, what do I want?
This is where I am.
Where am I going to go?
And, and, and then as the spouse heals, and as the person struggling
with compulsion heals, then their relationship starts to heal, and
then they as, as a team get to say, Okay, this is where we've been.
This is what it's looked like.
This is where we are right now.
And where do we want to go from here?
And that's where that beautiful empowerment comes from.
But, we do need to talk about grief because this process is not
possible without the spouse grieving.
Speaker: So what happens to a woman when she doesn't grieve?
Roxy: It comes out sideways.
It can come out, Lots of ways.
And I think it came out all the ways for me.
Because remember, I had been grieving since I was a little
kid and I didn't know it.
And so I had all this, this emotion stuffed in me.
And that's part of why surrendering was so hard.
I, by the time I realized that I needed to surrender and that there
was so much pain there, I was afraid of what would come out of my mouth.
You know, we're okay as a society when somebody dies.
We send flowers, we're like, we're so sorry.
That's only one type of grief.
And we really don't know how to grieve, or I didn't.
One time during this process, um, of, of these 20 plus years of recovery.
And this was after my last divorce.
I went right back into shame.
I went right back into feeling almost betrayed by my God, because I,
despite all my understanding, I had fell for the facade that he put up.
Okay.
And he didn't want to work recovery.
It wasn't that I just up and ran.
He didn't want to work for, for recovery.
And so, there was a lot of grief and I joined a group.
I love groups because I love honest groups.
Because you can be real.
And I was explaining how these waves of grief would just hit me.
And I was, I almost couldn't function for three or four days.
And I would be angry, and it was just a cycle.
It was starting to be a cycle.
And I recognized it was bigger than I was, and I needed somebody
who could see what it was.
And so I was explaining about it one time, and the woman leading,
She looked at me and she said, so what's your relationship with grief?
And I said, what do you mean?
Grief's an emotion.
You don't have a relationship with grief.
And she goes, Oh yes, you do.
You have a relationship with all your emotions.
And all of a sudden the truth of what she said just welled up.
And I was mad at grief and I just exploded.
I said, I hate grief.
I've been grieving for years.
I'm so sick of grief.
And we proceeded to talk about how maybe I could reconcile my relationship
with grief and It's very interesting because since that point I've had lots
of waves of grief it comes and it goes Someone that I dearly dearly love is
gone, you know from this life forever But I've never had the experience
where it overwhelmed me and made me so I couldn't function again Because I
learned to accept it and surrender it
Speaker: Can you dig more into that?
What does it look like to live in a healthy recovery for a
woman who knows how to grieve,
Roxy: to me, it looks like surrendering every day and I have
specific steps to my surrendering.
To surrender.
First I have to regulate my emotions.
Sometimes I still let emotions get way out of hand before I'm
like, Whoa, I'm in trouble here.
And so I have to regulate the emotions.
I have to be able to still my mind.
And that could look like a yoga class.
It could look like a walk.
It could look like a really good night's sleep with soft music.
Okay.
But then I have to explore what's in my control and what's not in my control
in the situation, what is happening.
And then I journal about it sometimes when I'm talking in my mind without journaling,
I can start down a spiral again.
Then, I actively take what I cannot control to God, and I say, this is yours.
And then I have to choose to act on what I can control, which is my
response to the situation, which is how I'm going to think about the
situation, which is how I'm going to try and show up for the situation.
I have to try and act on what's in my, My control.
But another step, and I think a lot of spouses might say,
But what about what I wanted?
Surrendering is not giving up what you want.
But in this process, one of my steps, one of my very formal steps is to pray
to God and say, This is what I wanted.
This is what I hoped for, but then I have to let go of how that happens.
I have to acknowledge that God knows my desires , and the process will work.
And then that's about six steps.
Then I repeat those six steps as often as I need to,
Speaker: as,
Roxy: as I began worrying about that situation or event again.
And sometimes on those really hard things, I'll have to do that multiple times a day.
I don't sit down and journal.
multiple times a day.
I don't have time, but I might look over what I journaled the
night before just to refresh.
Speaker: How long did it take you in your whole life of being around
people in recovery or not choosing recovery to boil it down to six
steps that actually help you?
Roxy: That's a really good question, Mason.
That's a really good question.
So I'll give two answers.
First off, My higher power, my God, has been helping me with
recovery, , since my early 20s.
I didn't know it.
When, Jack gave his first sterile disclosure when I was 47.
That's when I had to put purpose and meaning into it.
And that process, that took about two years for me to really, understand and
accept the principles and, Develop faith that they would work in the long run.
Speaker: Yeah
Well,
I hit my first 12
Roxy: step meeting thinking what most of them think
Speaker: yeah,
Roxy: which is great Control And when you go through step one again and
you're like, I really don't get that and you go through it the fourth time
and you're like, okay, I got one.
You see that it's a process, but I believe I can laugh about it now
because I believe that the principles are recovery of recovery are principles
that help you live a really happy and peaceful life in the long run.
It doesn't take away the problems, but it gives you solid principled
tools to work around the problems.
for joining us.
Speaker: Roxy, if you could speak to my wife right now, who's struggling with
the effects of my sexual addiction, and the pain and the grief of her
own recovery journey, and the healing that that takes, what would you say
Roxy: the first thing that I would say to her is come over to my house and
we'll have a Coke together and I'm going to hug you and, and you can tell me
your story and I'm going to understand.
And if you don't want to come to my house, you can go to the house of thousands
of other women , who will love you and help you understand that you are able
to do this and that you will be healed.
God has you, and if you have a willing heart, God has you.
, In metaphorical and literal ways, he's going to take you by the hand, and he's
going to provide the resources you need, and the people you need, and he's going
to walk through this journey with you.
Because He is creating an army of spouses who understand this and can help this
mixed up world of ours fight it with principles and not with vengeance.
And he's going to walk you through the necessary valleys.
that you need to go through to become acquainted with your own pain , and
the places where you need to grieve.
He's going to ask you for that pain and he's going to be there to take
it when you're ready to give it.
And he, you know, I remember doing a share one night, um, I remember doing a share
one night where I suddenly had a visual that it was like I was clenching my pain
and, and, and my higher power was trying to loosen my fingers, but I suddenly
understood that I was clenching it as a form of validating that it had happened.
Transcribed But , in those, in those moments of, of whatever miraculous way
our minds are opened up, I understood that I didn't have to clench that
pain anymore because I was validated because the experience was mine.
And It had helped shape me into what I was and was becoming and I could let go of it.
Speaker: I've got one last question because I know I really think my wife
would really like this I'm hearing this This change I feel like in your journey
Maybe in a relationship with God because before you were like Man, I felt like
God was almost kind of just streamed me along, you know with the pain.
Roxy: I felt like collateral damage.
And I had done that with Jack and so when Jack came forward I Felt as
betrayed by God As I did by my husband.
Speaker: Yeah.
Roxy: And I honestly felt like I was collateral damage and I
had decided that, um, he didn't know my name I knew he was there.
And I knew he loved Jack, but I had decided that maybe he had nameless
masses that he didn't care about.
And I was one of those.
And it was on a road trip about two years into our journey that Jack,
um, questioned me enough where I told him this incorrect assumption and he
made me promise to go on a journey.
To find the God that knew my name.
I had to dig in and that was quite a journey.
Speaker: Yeah.
Roxy: But, um, You are very intuitive, Mason, because that changed me when I
figured out that God did care about my pain and that he was walking with me.
You know, one time I would go to my garden when I was upset.
One time I was just furious and I was furious at God.
And I was like, you let this grow in my home, you know, and I'm pulling out weeds.
Speaker: Yeah.
Roxy: And I didn't I knew nobody had bothered me because I was in the
garden and nobody liked the garden because it was work, you know?
And I'm like, you let this grow in my home for 24 years, you
know, that's not very nice?
And he said, Roxy, you would have run.
And at that point, Jack and I had a decent amount of recovery and I knew that
the addiction was only getting worse.
This much of him and I knew that there were really, really wonderful reasons why
I chose to stay and why I wanted to stay.
And I had to sit back and say, yeah, you did that for me.
And I think that most spouses, as they evolve in that journey and find
the God who knows their name and they will find him working recovery.
They will find him.
I've seen it a million different ways for thousands of women.
They will find him, and they will look back and see that he never left them.
Speaker: That's beautiful.
Thank you, Roxy.
Starting off this, we kind of did a check in, and that's kind of where, where
I'm at right now in my recovery, and that's where my wife is at right now, is
we're trying to find that God who knows our name, and I just love how you put
that because That's what we're doing.
Roxy: And you know, that's a hard journey too, but that's part of the hard journey
of recovery in my mind, because I think a lot of people come into, um, recovery,
not knowing the God who knows their name.
Speaker: As me and my wife have been talking about it, we've found a lot of
purpose in recovery for just that reason.
Is we've asked we've asked the question so many times which
I'm sure everyone asked why?
Why me why this and that's exactly the purpose we found is that
God just wants us He wants us to know that he knows our name.
Roxy: Yeah, and you know Mason, I'm pretty old
Yeah and I've loved a lot of people You with different types of addictions.
And those relationships have, um, had different outcomes and, and there's
been a lot of pain along the way, but I'm not sorry for the journey now.
It took me a long, long time to come to that point.
But now I do.
Can see that the journey has been kind to me because I'm a different person.
Speaker: Roxy, you're a blessing.
Thank you.
I don't know about that.
I still
Roxy: have a temper.
Speaker: You're a little fireball, but you're a blessing.
We just really appreciate it.
I don't,
I don't yell at God as much, though.
Well, for those of us who are still in that phase, we appreciate you coming on
and just shedding a little bit of light.
There's hope.
Yeah.
And, uh, I think both for me and for my wife, we're really going to enjoy
going back and listening to this podcast episode because I learned a lot from you.
Roxy: I hope so.
And you tell her to come over and see me.
Speaker: I'll tell her to come have a Coke with
Roxy: you.
It's diet Coke.
Speaker: Thank you.
For those of you listening, uh, Roxy.
is also our editor on the Unashamed Unafraid guidebook.
We liked her so much after she recorded the first episode with us that we
asked her if she would do that for us.
And she has been wonderful to work with.
And so we've grown quite a close relationship, me and her working together
on the guidebook, , every week or so.
Uh, but just, just a real blessing to my life.
So thank you for being on again.
Again, that's Roxanna, Roxanna Johnson.
She's the author of Forgotten in the Battle of Sexual Addiction, A Journey,
Roxy: The Journey of a Spouse,
Speaker: The Journey of a Spouse.
Roxy: Yeah.
Speaker: Thanks for joining Unashamed Unafraid.
Thanks for listening today.
We love to have you on here.
We love to, we love to share this content with everyone as I heal, as
Mason heals, you guys all heal too.
And we appreciate you joining us in that journey.
You can donate and become an outsider on unashamed, unafraid.
com.
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Thanks for listening.
And until next time, continue to live on the shamed.