WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:42.022 --> 00:00:42.542 CJ: Okay. 00:00:42.582 --> 00:00:43.312 Looks like we're good, 00:00:43.952 --> 00:00:45.622 Duke: Wow, it's been a minute! 00:00:46.392 --> 00:00:47.452 CJ: man. 00:00:47.482 --> 00:00:50.362 Duke has been a long one, a long minute. 00:00:50.392 --> 00:00:53.382 This is not even not a New York minute, a long minute. 00:00:53.862 --> 00:00:56.892 Duke: jeepers, it's like You fall asleep in November, you 00:00:56.892 --> 00:00:58.442 wake up, you're in February. 00:00:58.612 --> 00:00:59.312 CJ: Yes. 00:00:59.682 --> 00:01:00.012 Right. 00:01:00.032 --> 00:01:04.912 Like holidays and snow and you name it. 00:01:05.872 --> 00:01:07.972 Duke: And the older I get, the worse that is. 00:01:07.972 --> 00:01:10.572 Like I wake up and it's like, Wait a second, my last memory 00:01:10.572 --> 00:01:11.872 was like five months ago! 00:01:12.207 --> 00:01:15.767 CJ: right, like what happened through all of January? 00:01:15.777 --> 00:01:17.007 No freaking clue 00:01:17.432 --> 00:01:17.872 Duke: Yeah, 00:01:18.187 --> 00:01:19.377 CJ: is IKEA. 00:01:19.377 --> 00:01:20.767 I can't believe it's even February. 00:01:21.582 --> 00:01:22.132 Duke: Wow. 00:01:22.202 --> 00:01:24.072 Okay, so, , what are we talking about today? 00:01:24.887 --> 00:01:25.417 CJ: All right, Duke. 00:01:25.417 --> 00:01:28.447 Today we're going to talk about how you can align your past work 00:01:28.447 --> 00:01:30.337 life to the service now world, 00:01:31.382 --> 00:01:33.752 Duke: Yes, don't know about you, I get this one a lot. 00:01:33.752 --> 00:01:38.202 With, , the new entrances system, maybe they've gotten a couple of certs already 00:01:38.622 --> 00:01:42.232 going through next gen, whatever, but they still have this, Hey, I had 00:01:42.232 --> 00:01:44.642 this whole life before service now. 00:01:45.522 --> 00:01:47.612 And , what do I do with that? 00:01:48.742 --> 00:01:51.452 CJ: I wish I got that one more, right? 00:01:51.492 --> 00:01:53.902 I actually don't get it often at all. 00:01:53.992 --> 00:01:56.742 But I think it's incredibly valuable to think about it that way. 00:01:57.412 --> 00:01:57.662 Duke: Yeah. 00:01:57.662 --> 00:02:00.542 Well, I mean, it's not like they're always asking me, . But it'll be somebody who 00:02:00.542 --> 00:02:06.112 maybe had a military 20 years of all kinds of cool stuff in the armed forces. 00:02:06.652 --> 00:02:10.342 And , you read the resume and maybe they're not asking it explicitly, but 00:02:10.342 --> 00:02:15.812 you can see a pathway for them to parlay it that they're not taking themselves 00:02:16.242 --> 00:02:16.942 CJ: Absolutely. 00:02:17.282 --> 00:02:21.952 Duke: help that at no part of our education does anybody teach you how to 00:02:21.962 --> 00:02:24.052 really write resume like my dad taught me. 00:02:24.052 --> 00:02:25.612 And then I've learned to rest along the way. 00:02:25.612 --> 00:02:26.652 It's just really a shame. 00:02:26.662 --> 00:02:29.912 Like school, college, like nobody teaches you. 00:02:30.592 --> 00:02:32.942 CJ: Well, this is where I'll give a lot of credit to the high school. 00:02:32.942 --> 00:02:33.592 I went to right. 00:02:33.592 --> 00:02:36.842 I learned in a class how to do a handshake, . How to write a 00:02:36.842 --> 00:02:39.232 resume, , test taking skills. 00:02:39.672 --> 00:02:44.412 , you other things just like very life oriented kind of these 00:02:44.422 --> 00:02:48.727 skills would translate, , from now until the end of time for you. 00:02:48.977 --> 00:02:50.137 No matter what happens. 00:02:50.137 --> 00:02:51.197 And they were right. 00:02:52.847 --> 00:02:56.077 You know, my handshake when I, when I meet someone, like they consistently 00:02:56.087 --> 00:02:58.207 mentioned my handshake and yeah. 00:02:58.207 --> 00:02:59.077 I learned that in school 00:03:00.272 --> 00:03:01.772 Duke: It warms my heart that we can find that. 00:03:01.772 --> 00:03:02.992 I hope your school is still around, 00:03:03.237 --> 00:03:03.687 CJ: they are. 00:03:03.697 --> 00:03:04.067 Yeah. 00:03:04.117 --> 00:03:04.417 Yeah. 00:03:04.467 --> 00:03:05.617 I don't know if they still have that class. 00:03:05.627 --> 00:03:07.487 I hope so, but man, it was good. 00:03:07.537 --> 00:03:08.997 I even still remember the teacher's name. 00:03:08.997 --> 00:03:09.967 Shout out to miss Branigan. 00:03:10.782 --> 00:03:11.742 Duke: Shout out to Miss Branigan. 00:03:12.482 --> 00:03:13.472 This episode is for you. 00:03:14.812 --> 00:03:16.182 I guess let's get to the brass tacks. 00:03:16.202 --> 00:03:17.762 You just throw some, ideas. 00:03:17.812 --> 00:03:19.352 The first thing I would say. 00:03:19.667 --> 00:03:24.377 Is to not boil down your past experiences, whether it's a deep past experience 00:03:24.377 --> 00:03:29.417 or even maybe you're like new to the workforce at all, try not to boil it 00:03:29.417 --> 00:03:32.057 down to, assessments of your character. 00:03:32.057 --> 00:03:32.697 You know what I mean? 00:03:32.697 --> 00:03:36.857 Like people who say highly motivated, , thrive on problem solving. 00:03:36.857 --> 00:03:38.897 I'm not saying it's bad. 00:03:38.947 --> 00:03:42.817 I'm just saying that's the kind of information that gets instantly erased in 00:03:42.817 --> 00:03:44.297 somebody's mind as soon as they read it. 00:03:45.122 --> 00:03:46.352 CJ: I can, see that, right? 00:03:46.382 --> 00:03:49.502 Like, I'm a a plus problem solver. 00:03:49.562 --> 00:03:49.972 Yeah. 00:03:49.982 --> 00:03:50.912 Everyone says that. 00:03:51.337 --> 00:03:53.417 Duke: It's one of those things that's so easy to say that 00:03:53.427 --> 00:03:54.687 actually everybody says it. 00:03:54.737 --> 00:03:55.377 Everybody says it. 00:03:55.437 --> 00:04:00.007 , who would not self describe as being a problem solver, or highly motivated? 00:04:00.322 --> 00:04:01.302 . CJ: I think everybody would. 00:04:01.352 --> 00:04:02.472 , if I'm being honest, right. 00:04:02.522 --> 00:04:04.022 It really depends for with me. 00:04:04.022 --> 00:04:05.762 Well, I'm a, I'm an amazing problem solver. 00:04:05.782 --> 00:04:08.842 Probably one of the best in the business on that. 00:04:08.842 --> 00:04:09.132 Right. 00:04:09.182 --> 00:04:12.192 , but in terms of highly motivated, that comes and goes. 00:04:13.007 --> 00:04:13.127 Duke: hmm. 00:04:13.127 --> 00:04:15.677 Yeah, motivation's fickle, right? 00:04:15.677 --> 00:04:19.147 Like, I don't care if I'm motivated or not, like, I'm gonna pound 00:04:19.147 --> 00:04:20.477 that coffee down and get it done. 00:04:20.907 --> 00:04:21.307 CJ: Yeah. 00:04:21.377 --> 00:04:21.687 Right. 00:04:21.687 --> 00:04:23.457 Like, sometimes that's just what you have to do. 00:04:23.627 --> 00:04:27.287 Duke: Yep, how I feel about it on the inside like who cares really not the 00:04:27.287 --> 00:04:28.707 person who's asking me to get it done. 00:04:28.717 --> 00:04:29.347 That's for sure 00:04:29.447 --> 00:04:29.677 CJ: Yeah. 00:04:29.677 --> 00:04:31.427 Not the person paying you to get it done. 00:04:31.437 --> 00:04:32.077 Absolutely. 00:04:32.077 --> 00:04:32.577 Right. 00:04:32.677 --> 00:04:32.967 Duke: right. 00:04:33.017 --> 00:04:33.507 That's right 00:04:33.877 --> 00:04:37.527 CJ: They got expectations and, you got to show up so highly motivated. 00:04:37.577 --> 00:04:38.577 That's table stakes. 00:04:39.237 --> 00:04:39.527 Right. 00:04:39.537 --> 00:04:40.657 So let's move on from that. 00:04:40.657 --> 00:04:42.227 And what else you got, you know? 00:04:42.517 --> 00:04:45.377 Duke: stakes is a great way to put it Like everybody is going to 00:04:45.387 --> 00:04:50.107 come to their resume with at least that so I guess more charitably. 00:04:50.107 --> 00:04:54.807 Just assume they already have the highest envision of your character 00:04:55.047 --> 00:04:58.717 that they can already like they let's just assume that they know that you're 00:04:58.717 --> 00:05:03.377 a hard worker that you're motivated to get this job that you take it all 00:05:03.407 --> 00:05:06.487 seriously let's just assume that they know that now what do you bring right 00:05:07.567 --> 00:05:08.717 CJ: Yeah, what's next? 00:05:08.787 --> 00:05:09.507 What have you done? 00:05:09.807 --> 00:05:10.637 What do you bring? 00:05:10.687 --> 00:05:14.437 Illustrate to me, that you fit the requirements of this position. 00:05:14.437 --> 00:05:17.977 Show me, how do you communicate that in an interview? 00:05:17.977 --> 00:05:19.607 Because that's ultimately what it is. 00:05:19.607 --> 00:05:19.947 Right. 00:05:20.117 --> 00:05:24.787 And I say this a lot, but probably not a lot enough and probably not loud enough. 00:05:24.787 --> 00:05:25.067 Right. 00:05:25.287 --> 00:05:27.907 When you look at the job requirements for a job posting. 00:05:27.957 --> 00:05:31.257 . And you see something that's 20 years of experience or something like that. 00:05:31.467 --> 00:05:33.787 They don't really care if you've been doing this 20 years. 00:05:33.997 --> 00:05:39.267 They care if you have, Experience that is commiserate with the average person 00:05:39.267 --> 00:05:41.137 who has been doing this 20 years. 00:05:41.337 --> 00:05:43.677 . And what I mean by experience, I mean, skill. 00:05:44.917 --> 00:05:45.357 Right. 00:05:46.272 --> 00:05:49.142 Duke: It's such a clear picture on my mind is when I see that must 00:05:49.142 --> 00:05:54.032 have X years, I imagine somebody asking, is it cold outside? 00:05:54.082 --> 00:05:58.062 Compared to what, by what standard do we judge that? 00:05:58.062 --> 00:06:01.082 And if I say, like, when I breathe in really hard, like, 00:06:01.642 --> 00:06:03.032 my nose hairs freeze together. 00:06:03.692 --> 00:06:05.972 , that's a level of cold that everybody can relate to. 00:06:06.422 --> 00:06:10.022 And so, when they're saying like 20 years, they're not gonna throw you 00:06:10.022 --> 00:06:14.202 out of bed for 19 and a half years, or even 18 years, or even 10 years. 00:06:14.492 --> 00:06:15.492 It's a heuristic, 00:06:15.977 --> 00:06:16.567 CJ: Yes. 00:06:16.772 --> 00:06:19.762 Duke: So they don't like, they're just trying to put something 00:06:19.772 --> 00:06:23.012 out there that looks like a model of what they're imagining. 00:06:23.747 --> 00:06:24.537 CJ: Absolutely. 00:06:24.987 --> 00:06:25.307 Right. 00:06:25.307 --> 00:06:25.507 And right. 00:06:26.277 --> 00:06:27.417 Not a hard barrier at all. 00:06:27.417 --> 00:06:27.677 Right. 00:06:27.677 --> 00:06:28.607 But it is a barrier. 00:06:28.737 --> 00:06:29.337 . It's a level. 00:06:29.337 --> 00:06:30.007 It's a filter. 00:06:30.257 --> 00:06:34.687 They want to say, do a self assessment, ? And if you don't feel like you've have 00:06:34.687 --> 00:06:38.607 the experience of somebody who's been doing this 20 years, or if you don't 00:06:38.607 --> 00:06:42.217 feel like you have the skill set of someone who's been doing this for 20 00:06:42.227 --> 00:06:46.377 years, probably not the job for you because those are our expectations. 00:06:47.432 --> 00:06:51.072 Duke: yeah, the way I like to express how they're, what 00:06:51.072 --> 00:06:53.082 they're looking for is, agency, 00:06:53.567 --> 00:06:53.917 CJ: Yeah. 00:06:53.937 --> 00:06:54.367 Oh yeah, 00:06:54.772 --> 00:06:58.742 Duke: like, if you look up on Miriam, it's , the capacity condition or 00:06:58.742 --> 00:07:03.512 state of acting or exerting power or a person or thing through which 00:07:03.512 --> 00:07:05.492 power is exerted or end is achieved. 00:07:06.372 --> 00:07:10.682 , an established agent in doing business for another, like your agency is 00:07:10.722 --> 00:07:15.672 basically like you have to do this job on behalf of a person or an organization. 00:07:15.672 --> 00:07:21.482 And so the more you can show agency of the same type of the same scale, hopefully 00:07:21.492 --> 00:07:25.022 both, the better you are getting this. 00:07:25.022 --> 00:07:26.052 CJ: yeah, absolutely. 00:07:26.052 --> 00:07:30.212 When I think about agency is, am I going to have to tell you 00:07:30.492 --> 00:07:32.552 what to do every step of the way? 00:07:33.262 --> 00:07:33.652 Right? 00:07:33.687 --> 00:07:36.747 Duke: There's so many, , people out there that are anxious to learn 00:07:36.747 --> 00:07:38.407 right and can learn really well. 00:07:38.417 --> 00:07:42.427 But I think when people are trying to load up their job descriptions with 00:07:42.437 --> 00:07:46.637 must have this many years experience is they're saying as much as possible. 00:07:46.647 --> 00:07:48.167 We don't want to have to teach you 00:07:48.767 --> 00:07:49.407 CJ: Yes. 00:07:49.797 --> 00:07:51.647 Like, we want you to be able to learn, right? 00:07:51.647 --> 00:07:53.037 We just don't want to be able to teach you. 00:07:53.037 --> 00:07:54.757 We don't want to teach it to you. 00:07:55.327 --> 00:07:56.047 Duke: Exactly. 00:07:56.267 --> 00:07:59.777 And , let's be super charitable here because maybe they don't have that time. 00:07:59.837 --> 00:08:02.567 , if they had that time, maybe they would have picked somebody internally 00:08:02.567 --> 00:08:05.247 and just say, Hey, listen, you're not a mail room clerk anymore. 00:08:05.247 --> 00:08:08.307 You're a service now, Dav, and we're gonna, , send you on a course or whatever. 00:08:08.307 --> 00:08:13.627 Just trust and believe that what they want is somebody who has receipts of 00:08:13.637 --> 00:08:15.187 being able to just take stuff over. 00:08:15.537 --> 00:08:19.117 Like, if you can imagine what you could do to say that on day one, you can 00:08:19.117 --> 00:08:21.247 start doing stuff valuable for them 00:08:21.962 --> 00:08:22.592 CJ: Yeah. 00:08:23.037 --> 00:08:24.227 Duke: them directly. 00:08:25.167 --> 00:08:26.917 So the more agency you can show. 00:08:26.982 --> 00:08:31.972 And so, this is where I feel people who have had radically different, but 00:08:32.002 --> 00:08:38.002 accomplished stuff in their past lives, really, , discount that past experience. 00:08:38.252 --> 00:08:44.382 I was talking to one, he was in the armed services, and he Was on the technology 00:08:44.382 --> 00:08:49.052 side and they basically, as the army does just says, Hey, congratulations, you're in 00:08:49.052 --> 00:08:52.622 charge of this now, never seen it before. 00:08:52.922 --> 00:08:56.142 , and he had to deploy something in basically 90 days, whatever the timeline, 00:08:56.752 --> 00:08:57.292 CJ: Right. 00:08:57.362 --> 00:08:59.542 Duke: but in the armed forces, you do it. 00:08:59.712 --> 00:09:02.392 There's no complaining about it or, Hey, can I get more money? 00:09:02.392 --> 00:09:04.472 It's just this is your mission statement. 00:09:04.502 --> 00:09:05.532 Now , you have to perform. 00:09:05.862 --> 00:09:10.062 And so this guy basically learned the product , however he could. 00:09:10.702 --> 00:09:14.792 And got the best advice he could in the open market of ideas and then deployed it. 00:09:15.122 --> 00:09:19.812 And even though he didn't say ServiceNow in that, and in fact, 00:09:19.812 --> 00:09:24.382 it wasn't about ServiceNow, shows an agency of the same type. 00:09:24.972 --> 00:09:27.022 Meaning like, yeah, , SharePoint's got some stuff you have 00:09:27.022 --> 00:09:27.952 to learn about it, right? 00:09:27.972 --> 00:09:31.102 Maybe not as big as ServiceNow, but yeah, complicated. 00:09:31.512 --> 00:09:31.812 CJ: Yep. 00:09:32.877 --> 00:09:33.697 Duke: And scale. 00:09:33.807 --> 00:09:37.077 So he had to do a deployment for hundreds of people in X amount of days. 00:09:37.837 --> 00:09:38.887 CJ: Right, right. 00:09:39.417 --> 00:09:39.917 Duke: Who cares? 00:09:39.917 --> 00:09:41.627 Who cares what it actually was? 00:09:41.977 --> 00:09:46.767 He showed of the same scale, of the same type, and full agency. 00:09:46.777 --> 00:09:47.897 Like, he had to get it done. 00:09:48.817 --> 00:09:49.617 CJ: Absolutely. 00:09:49.887 --> 00:09:53.617 So you establish right there, that baseline competence , from 00:09:53.617 --> 00:09:58.587 that perspective, and then you add in, and these are the skills 00:09:58.587 --> 00:10:02.417 that I have in the thing that you actually own and are looking for. 00:10:03.292 --> 00:10:03.702 Right. 00:10:03.762 --> 00:10:06.902 Cause now you're layering on top off, right? 00:10:06.902 --> 00:10:13.032 Like I've done things like this in the past, and this is my skillset with this 00:10:13.062 --> 00:10:15.122 thing you want me to do in the future. 00:10:15.822 --> 00:10:17.622 Duke: To me it's of a type, right? 00:10:17.852 --> 00:10:20.902 , no, it's not exactly ServiceNow, but, who would you rather? 00:10:20.902 --> 00:10:25.142 Would you rather somebody who maybe Has gone through the courses, maybe 00:10:25.142 --> 00:10:28.402 even done a year of field work , under somebody else's tutelage, or do you 00:10:28.402 --> 00:10:32.962 want somebody who can fill in the technical blanks, but has been in the 00:10:32.962 --> 00:10:34.622 hot seat for delivering something? 00:10:35.967 --> 00:10:36.487 CJ: Yeah, 00:10:36.752 --> 00:10:40.822 Duke: that's, I think, a clear advantage that mature workers have, . If you're 00:10:40.852 --> 00:10:43.712 coming in from a 10 year career or a 20 year career somewhere else, 00:10:44.142 --> 00:10:46.172 you have been in a trench fight, 00:10:47.587 --> 00:10:50.607 CJ: you know, you know, Duke, , I don't think we can 00:10:50.677 --> 00:10:54.197 underscore this enough, right? 00:10:54.197 --> 00:11:01.087 Because there are life lessons, work lessons, work skills, right? 00:11:01.087 --> 00:11:02.147 That agency component. 00:11:02.157 --> 00:11:06.767 There are these things that are the same no matter what, or there are these 00:11:06.787 --> 00:11:12.737 things that add to your competency and a, any position that you're in, 00:11:12.967 --> 00:11:16.837 they're typically, what are called soft skills, which , I'm starting to not 00:11:16.837 --> 00:11:21.797 necessarily like the term soft skills, because I feel like it, it diminishes, 00:11:21.867 --> 00:11:23.307 , the importance of them a little bit. 00:11:23.672 --> 00:11:26.412 , the soft skills that we talk about are just as important as the 00:11:26.412 --> 00:11:27.902 hard skills that we talk about. 00:11:28.162 --> 00:11:31.582 . But we give them a little bit, more marginalized importance 00:11:31.782 --> 00:11:33.372 in the conversation, right? 00:11:33.372 --> 00:11:35.502 It is really, really important, right? 00:11:35.552 --> 00:11:38.742 That you have a personality to be able to discuss things with 00:11:38.742 --> 00:11:39.922 your user community, right? 00:11:40.012 --> 00:11:42.272 Like, that's what we call a soft skills. 00:11:42.272 --> 00:11:44.632 It's just as important as being able to write code, right? 00:11:44.632 --> 00:11:46.822 Because how are you going to get the requirements if you can't talk to people? 00:11:48.282 --> 00:11:51.132 So anyway, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of losing my track here. 00:11:51.132 --> 00:11:52.002 It's been a minute, duke. 00:11:52.002 --> 00:11:52.332 It's been a 00:11:52.367 --> 00:11:52.617 Duke: Yeah. 00:11:52.617 --> 00:11:52.997 Yeah. 00:11:54.197 --> 00:11:56.977 We've got to cross reference this with all the different types of jobs 00:11:56.977 --> 00:11:58.297 in the ServiceNow community too. 00:11:58.297 --> 00:12:01.877 So you may be gunning for that dev position, . But if you have 00:12:01.887 --> 00:12:05.447 priors that are any level of development, you use those priors. 00:12:05.602 --> 00:12:07.862 CJ: Yes, that's what I was trying to say. 00:12:08.252 --> 00:12:09.302 Duke: You know, I hit lotto. 00:12:09.302 --> 00:12:13.182 I started service now, 15 years ago, I still miss the opportunity to buy it. 00:12:13.182 --> 00:12:13.922 20, 00:12:14.242 --> 00:12:14.782 CJ: man. 00:12:14.782 --> 00:12:16.012 Me too. 00:12:19.002 --> 00:12:19.752 . Yep. 00:12:20.492 --> 00:12:21.982 Duke: like at that time. 00:12:22.032 --> 00:12:22.622 And I both right. 00:12:22.622 --> 00:12:23.732 Magic total service desk. 00:12:23.877 --> 00:12:24.717 CJ: Yes, 00:12:25.232 --> 00:12:27.862 Duke: And I had come off of a few years of that. 00:12:27.872 --> 00:12:29.582 So it was like, no, it's not service. 00:12:29.582 --> 00:12:35.292 Now it doesn't even look, act or feel like service now, but it was of the same type, 00:12:36.192 --> 00:12:36.482 CJ: Yeah. 00:12:36.892 --> 00:12:40.632 Duke: and I tell and tasks and assignments and work. 00:12:41.282 --> 00:12:42.122 And so, 00:12:42.142 --> 00:12:44.362 CJ: And customization, right? 00:12:45.042 --> 00:12:50.152 Duke: And so that made it easy for me to start the service now world with 00:12:50.152 --> 00:12:51.972 five years experience, basically. 00:12:52.102 --> 00:12:52.322 CJ: Yep. 00:12:52.502 --> 00:12:53.922 Jumped right in. 00:12:54.797 --> 00:12:58.317 Duke: Yep, so if you're going for the tech stuff, you have to use your past 00:12:58.327 --> 00:12:59.847 tech stuff as your stepping stone. 00:12:59.857 --> 00:13:02.467 Now, it's not just saying, well, I did that. 00:13:02.887 --> 00:13:05.997 For God's sakes, don't just put SharePoint as a single word bullet point 00:13:05.997 --> 00:13:08.747 on your skills list on a resume, right? 00:13:09.347 --> 00:13:11.327 Tell us what you did with it. 00:13:11.337 --> 00:13:13.917 And I think you've heard us say it about a hundred times. 00:13:14.452 --> 00:13:20.702 That XYZ protocol by doing X, I achieved Y as measured by Z. 00:13:20.772 --> 00:13:22.452 I don't care if you could say the word SharePoint. 00:13:22.452 --> 00:13:24.472 I don't care if you can go down the SharePoint's navigator 00:13:24.472 --> 00:13:25.462 bar and name the stuff. 00:13:25.932 --> 00:13:28.732 What I want to know is what you did with SharePoint, like the guy 00:13:28.732 --> 00:13:33.982 I was just talking about where, you learned SharePoint and deployed it 00:13:33.992 --> 00:13:35.942 to hundreds of people in 120 days. 00:13:35.942 --> 00:13:36.512 CJ: Yes. 00:13:36.812 --> 00:13:38.272 And then what did they do with it? 00:13:38.552 --> 00:13:38.982 Right. 00:13:39.482 --> 00:13:39.722 Right. 00:13:39.722 --> 00:13:41.692 Cause that's the, cause that's the next step, right? 00:13:41.692 --> 00:13:42.372 I learned it. 00:13:42.542 --> 00:13:45.212 I deployed it so that they can do. 00:13:45.782 --> 00:13:46.222 Right. 00:13:46.242 --> 00:13:48.012 And then now you've got a clue. 00:13:48.042 --> 00:13:52.212 Now you have a complete picture of the skill set that was involved in that 00:13:52.212 --> 00:13:55.402 particular project, and you can relate that to whatever it is that you're 00:13:55.402 --> 00:13:57.152 looking to hire someone for, right? 00:13:57.202 --> 00:13:58.462 , this could be anything, right? 00:13:58.462 --> 00:13:59.672 Like you'd be a chef, right? 00:13:59.672 --> 00:14:02.642 If you're a chef running a kitchen, those are your leadership skills. 00:14:02.872 --> 00:14:05.442 You are calm under pressure, right? 00:14:05.442 --> 00:14:08.272 You are very, very good at stretching a dollar, 00:14:09.702 --> 00:14:10.112 Duke: Mm 00:14:10.152 --> 00:14:13.932 CJ: There are all of these things that when you start thinking about, the 00:14:13.932 --> 00:14:21.252 jobs that you held and, from a more calculating, appraising perspective 00:14:21.472 --> 00:14:26.072 of the skill sets that are required to be good at them, you start to 00:14:26.072 --> 00:14:27.912 realize that a lot of these skill sets. 00:14:28.372 --> 00:14:30.942 Are interchangeable across a lot of different industries. 00:14:31.722 --> 00:14:31.932 Duke: hmm. 00:14:32.212 --> 00:14:33.582 Something just popped into my head. 00:14:34.012 --> 00:14:37.412 When I was interviewing Travis Tolson for Titans of Now, back when I was doing that, 00:14:37.462 --> 00:14:38.582 CJ: Shout out Travis. 00:14:38.702 --> 00:14:41.672 Duke: Dev Advocate Travis Tolson, Senior Dev Advocate Travis Tolson. 00:14:42.002 --> 00:14:42.552 CJ: That's right. 00:14:43.242 --> 00:14:43.972 Absolutely. 00:14:44.522 --> 00:14:49.512 Duke: When I was interviewing him for Titans, he talked a lot about, his 00:14:49.722 --> 00:14:52.162 job when he was in the Marines, right? 00:14:52.182 --> 00:14:56.772 And how he wished they had something like ServiceNow, and how much better it would 00:14:56.772 --> 00:14:59.372 have made his life in the Marine Corps. 00:14:59.582 --> 00:15:01.782 And That is another good strategy. 00:15:01.832 --> 00:15:04.682 Sometimes the problem is I'm not getting to the interviews, but 00:15:04.772 --> 00:15:08.132 sometimes the problem is I'm at the interviews and I can't get through. 00:15:08.602 --> 00:15:12.982 That might be a good strategy to take with you into an interview is talk about 00:15:13.002 --> 00:15:17.012 how you wished you had service now for. 00:15:17.552 --> 00:15:19.072 Those things in your past life, 00:15:19.792 --> 00:15:20.382 CJ: Oh, that's good. 00:15:21.482 --> 00:15:23.462 Duke: because , then it goes without saying that you understand 00:15:23.462 --> 00:15:24.632 the ServiceNow value prop. 00:15:25.252 --> 00:15:25.852 CJ: Right? 00:15:26.432 --> 00:15:30.162 Duke: It also hints that, you know enough about the component pieces 00:15:30.162 --> 00:15:33.822 that you can assemble them in your mind to apply to a use case. 00:15:33.822 --> 00:15:35.322 Nobody else has seen before. 00:15:36.052 --> 00:15:39.022 CJ: I didn't think about it that way, but that is absolutely a 00:15:39.022 --> 00:15:40.432 good way of phrasing it, right? 00:15:40.432 --> 00:15:43.472 . I'm going to tell you what I would have done if I had the thing 00:15:43.652 --> 00:15:45.092 because everybody in this room, 00:15:45.142 --> 00:15:46.362 no service now. 00:15:46.632 --> 00:15:50.932 You could talk to use cases that you actually lived and layer 00:15:50.962 --> 00:15:53.002 on service now on top of it. 00:15:53.202 --> 00:15:57.442 And now the understanding of the platform that you have starts to shine 00:15:57.442 --> 00:16:02.702 through because you're talking about things that you know about, things 00:16:02.702 --> 00:16:07.232 that you're comfortable with, things that you are competent in, right? 00:16:07.232 --> 00:16:08.802 And things that you've already done. 00:16:09.472 --> 00:16:13.972 You've basically changed the focus of the interview from what would you 00:16:13.972 --> 00:16:19.272 do if you were here to this is what I would have done if I had here then 00:16:20.142 --> 00:16:23.182 Duke: Yeah, it shows more agency too, because the least amount 00:16:23.182 --> 00:16:26.382 of agency is we're telling you what to do and how to do it 00:16:27.242 --> 00:16:27.642 CJ: right. 00:16:27.642 --> 00:16:31.742 Duke: The second least is we're telling you what you need to do But 00:16:31.942 --> 00:16:36.122 if you have even more agency on top of that, you're volunteering Here's 00:16:36.122 --> 00:16:37.692 what I would do in a scenario. 00:16:37.692 --> 00:16:38.502 You're not even bringing up 00:16:39.382 --> 00:16:40.042 CJ: Right. 00:16:40.127 --> 00:16:43.437 Duke: So it shows the agency that you can go after problems proactively. 00:16:43.632 --> 00:16:44.232 CJ: Yes. 00:16:44.542 --> 00:16:45.152 Yes. 00:16:45.152 --> 00:16:46.222 I'm highlighting problems. 00:16:46.222 --> 00:16:46.772 I'm highlight. 00:16:47.032 --> 00:16:50.352 I know the tool that that we have and I'm going to yeah, absolutely man. 00:16:51.252 --> 00:16:51.812 Absolutely. 00:16:52.302 --> 00:16:57.182 It's funny because I think after so many years in the workforce, you start 00:16:57.182 --> 00:17:00.362 to do these things intrinsically without thinking about them 00:17:01.217 --> 00:17:01.367 Duke: Mm 00:17:01.542 --> 00:17:04.392 CJ: sometimes though, I feel like not everyone does. 00:17:04.917 --> 00:17:07.207 It's a couple of things that I've thought about over the last couple of 00:17:07.207 --> 00:17:11.627 months one of them is that, there's a phrase, all common sense ain't common. 00:17:11.657 --> 00:17:12.077 Right? 00:17:12.317 --> 00:17:12.967 And 00:17:13.097 --> 00:17:13.357 Duke: Yeah. 00:17:13.967 --> 00:17:14.407 CJ: right, 00:17:15.017 --> 00:17:15.507 Duke: Right. 00:17:15.837 --> 00:17:19.147 CJ: And so you have to remember that just because you think it's common 00:17:19.147 --> 00:17:22.967 sense doesn't mean that everyone else shares the same thoughts on that. 00:17:23.382 --> 00:17:26.002 The other thing is, talked to a lot of people who have 00:17:26.002 --> 00:17:28.222 consulting, , skill sets, right? 00:17:28.292 --> 00:17:33.612 Consultative approaches, mentalities, workflow processes, all this stuff in 00:17:33.612 --> 00:17:39.082 their head as a matter of course, they have the ability to talk to people, they 00:17:39.082 --> 00:17:42.822 have the ability to step back from that and get technical, they have the ability 00:17:42.822 --> 00:17:47.922 to put all these things together and think from a process and a project and a program 00:17:48.232 --> 00:17:49.672 all these various different angles, right? 00:17:49.672 --> 00:17:51.452 And they just do this intrinsically, ? It's just part 00:17:51.452 --> 00:17:52.792 of the job of being a consultant. 00:17:53.312 --> 00:17:56.652 , I sometimes forget that not everyone is a consultant, right? 00:17:56.652 --> 00:17:59.312 There's a lot of folks who have never consulted before. 00:17:59.682 --> 00:18:03.942 And so when you are dealing with a situation like consultants often 00:18:03.942 --> 00:18:06.142 deal with irate clients, right. 00:18:06.142 --> 00:18:10.982 And we know how to manage that down to a level of conversation again, . You 00:18:11.002 --> 00:18:13.992 often forget that not everyone has had that experience, . Not everyone 00:18:14.262 --> 00:18:15.962 intrinsically gets how to do that. 00:18:15.972 --> 00:18:18.592 And I guess my point , in all of this is that. 00:18:18.592 --> 00:18:21.472 These things are things that I've always taken as like second nature. 00:18:22.117 --> 00:18:22.417 Right? 00:18:22.417 --> 00:18:23.987 Like it's just stuff that happens, right? 00:18:23.987 --> 00:18:24.897 Oh, yeah, absolutely. 00:18:24.897 --> 00:18:27.667 I'm going to take all this experience that I've had when I used to 00:18:27.677 --> 00:18:30.927 build data centers or whatever and apply it to service now, right? 00:18:30.927 --> 00:18:32.537 Because that's just what I do. 00:18:33.077 --> 00:18:35.167 But not everybody does that. 00:18:35.187 --> 00:18:39.557 And, it's just worth mentioning that , meet people where they are, right? 00:18:39.587 --> 00:18:41.807 Especially when they come to you for guidance and mentorship. 00:18:41.807 --> 00:18:43.037 That was a long way of saying that. 00:18:44.687 --> 00:18:46.007 Duke: Still needs to be said, right? 00:18:46.057 --> 00:18:48.017 , this question still gets asked. 00:18:48.087 --> 00:18:50.657 And if it's not being asked, you can still see. 00:18:50.737 --> 00:18:52.617 You can just read on your resumes. 00:18:53.037 --> 00:18:54.587 And it practically screams it. 00:18:55.397 --> 00:18:55.767 CJ: Yeah. 00:18:56.292 --> 00:18:58.392 Duke: There's a reason why this episode isn't as smooth and 00:18:58.392 --> 00:18:59.652 silky as some of our other ones. 00:19:00.782 --> 00:19:03.622 Cause , it's still working out in my head, the vital essence of it. 00:19:04.992 --> 00:19:10.502 And , as we're talking here, it's coming into my head that it's agency, scale, 00:19:10.502 --> 00:19:16.032 and What's a good word for , of a type, of the same type, of a similar type? 00:19:17.417 --> 00:19:18.877 CJ: Um, pattern matching. 00:19:19.602 --> 00:19:23.477 Duke: Yeah, it's like Well, no, I haven't worked on ServiceNow, but 00:19:23.497 --> 00:19:28.827 I, maybe I worked on SAP or maybe I worked in Salesforce, right? 00:19:29.107 --> 00:19:29.497 CJ: Yeah. 00:19:29.587 --> 00:19:29.947 Yeah. 00:19:29.952 --> 00:19:32.652 Duke: Your brain is like, no, they're not the same tool, but 00:19:33.377 --> 00:19:33.747 CJ: Right. 00:19:34.132 --> 00:19:37.082 , Duke: they're components are of equal complexity ish. 00:19:38.367 --> 00:19:38.977 CJ: Yes. 00:19:39.362 --> 00:19:40.612 , Duke: and then the scale, right? 00:19:40.612 --> 00:19:44.062 , Oh, deployed for five people deployed for a hundred people deployed for a 00:19:44.062 --> 00:19:48.602 thousand people, like multi million dollar project, multi thousand dollar project. 00:19:48.602 --> 00:19:49.072 Mm 00:19:49.147 --> 00:19:49.547 . CJ: True. 00:19:49.747 --> 00:19:50.007 True. 00:19:50.007 --> 00:19:54.027 , you need to make sure that you're aligning, , when you're building your 00:19:54.027 --> 00:19:56.187 service down instance that you're aligning with people who have the 00:19:56.377 --> 00:19:58.677 who have matching scale, skill sets. 00:19:59.512 --> 00:20:04.512 If you're building a 50, 000 user ServiceNow instance, you probably 00:20:04.512 --> 00:20:09.282 don't want the person that's only ever did 20 user implementations. 00:20:09.682 --> 00:20:10.102 Right? 00:20:11.217 --> 00:20:15.097 Duke: Yeah, but and it's like the person who's done 20 might know 00:20:15.117 --> 00:20:17.567 they'd be great people to have in combination with each other. 00:20:17.567 --> 00:20:17.817 Right? 00:20:17.837 --> 00:20:23.027 Because once you truly understand the scale and type of the 00:20:23.027 --> 00:20:27.827 problem, you almost start favoring people that have had similar. 00:20:28.052 --> 00:20:33.022 Type and scale of problem, , even in lieu of some of the technical specifics, 00:20:33.412 --> 00:20:34.272 CJ: Yes. 00:20:34.792 --> 00:20:35.702 , Duke: we've said this before. 00:20:35.702 --> 00:20:39.002 , if you imagine being the CEO of a company,, the resume is really 00:20:39.002 --> 00:20:40.062 talk about the bottom lines. 00:20:40.062 --> 00:20:43.582 And you still get people who go from whole different industries because maybe 00:20:43.582 --> 00:20:46.822 I'm not an engineer, but I'm going to take the lead of this car company because. 00:20:47.372 --> 00:20:51.122 , I did marketing that did the bottom line in a certain way, or HR in a certain 00:20:51.122 --> 00:20:52.842 way that moved the bottom line so much. 00:20:54.592 --> 00:20:55.392 , CJ: I think it does. 00:20:55.482 --> 00:20:56.382 I think it does, Duke. 00:20:56.622 --> 00:21:01.162 You know, I think it's sometimes , the skill set that you need might not 00:21:01.162 --> 00:21:02.882 be the skill set that you asked for. 00:21:04.382 --> 00:21:05.412 I think that's what you're saying. 00:21:05.622 --> 00:21:06.402 Duke: Yeah, that's true. 00:21:06.482 --> 00:21:07.442 I'll try to do another example. 00:21:07.442 --> 00:21:14.782 There's this guy was Air Force, but he was basically in charge of some significant 00:21:14.782 --> 00:21:16.962 portion of like fighter craft, right? 00:21:16.972 --> 00:21:17.982 The maintenance of 00:21:18.102 --> 00:21:18.582 CJ: right? 00:21:18.852 --> 00:21:19.512 Duke: And so. 00:21:20.522 --> 00:21:24.542 He's basically talking about asset management , but in the scale of billions 00:21:24.542 --> 00:21:31.662 of dollars And it just not want not wants to write billion in the resume, right? 00:21:32.012 --> 00:21:32.602 CJ: Oh, wow. 00:21:32.832 --> 00:21:33.202 Duke: It was 00:21:33.362 --> 00:21:33.612 CJ: That's a 00:21:33.732 --> 00:21:38.162 Duke: yeah, it's like this kind of leadership title in Management. 00:21:38.212 --> 00:21:43.542 It's like, no dude, you're in charge of billions of dollars worth of our nation's 00:21:44.082 --> 00:21:47.012 tip of the spear, that's super important. 00:21:47.112 --> 00:21:51.472 And course that can parlay Into the ServiceNow realm. 00:21:53.002 --> 00:21:53.432 CJ: Right. 00:21:53.692 --> 00:21:56.362 Duke: And so again, you have to think about what is the scale 00:21:56.412 --> 00:21:57.742 of the thing that I have did? 00:21:57.752 --> 00:22:01.112 What is the type of the thing that I've done? 00:22:01.402 --> 00:22:03.622 What was the complexity of the thing that I've done? 00:22:03.622 --> 00:22:06.692 Because you could take all of that and make yourself, super 00:22:06.692 --> 00:22:07.942 attractive in the ServiceNow world. 00:22:07.942 --> 00:22:10.752 How far off is that from really understanding asset 00:22:10.752 --> 00:22:13.572 management, IT asset management? 00:22:13.572 --> 00:22:15.729 Right. 00:22:16.262 --> 00:22:17.622 , CJ: not very right. 00:22:17.662 --> 00:22:21.862 If you've done asset management in any form, you can pick 00:22:21.862 --> 00:22:22.952 that up and bring it over. 00:22:22.952 --> 00:22:26.362 And if you've done it, at a large scale these things are 00:22:26.832 --> 00:22:27.812 definitely interchangeable. 00:22:28.232 --> 00:22:30.042 ? And I don't know to Duke, right? 00:22:30.092 --> 00:22:36.522 , I think there's not enough emphasis put on understanding and delivering 00:22:36.522 --> 00:22:37.992 and building the processes. 00:22:38.767 --> 00:22:44.307 That often drive the technical build outs that companies want, right? 00:22:44.307 --> 00:22:46.157 Because, , just being real, right? 00:22:46.157 --> 00:22:50.337 I don't talk tech with my clients most of the time because they 00:22:50.337 --> 00:22:52.567 didn't hire me to write code. 00:22:52.577 --> 00:22:56.257 They hired me because they had a problem that is expressed in the 00:22:56.257 --> 00:23:02.237 form of a process that needs to be fixed, or implement it or praised. 00:23:02.517 --> 00:23:04.387 , or understood, whatever it is, right? 00:23:04.387 --> 00:23:05.867 That's how they communicate with me. 00:23:06.017 --> 00:23:09.817 Hey, our incident management process sucks, , we can't get 00:23:09.847 --> 00:23:11.817 incidents closed within a week. 00:23:12.007 --> 00:23:16.597 We've got a backlog of 17, 000 incidents open that we're never 00:23:16.597 --> 00:23:18.587 going to be able to even address. 00:23:18.917 --> 00:23:22.897 All of these things, like they're not saying, Hey , these UI actions on my 00:23:22.897 --> 00:23:24.737 incident management process sucks. 00:23:25.027 --> 00:23:25.207 Right. 00:23:25.207 --> 00:23:28.227 Can you make sure that they're doing, , call the scripted clues 00:23:28.227 --> 00:23:31.297 instead of, , running glide record lookups, , synchronously. 00:23:31.417 --> 00:23:31.597 Right. 00:23:31.597 --> 00:23:33.117 They don't say, they don't say that. 00:23:33.117 --> 00:23:36.637 I just think we don't give enough emphasis to on that. 00:23:36.637 --> 00:23:39.747 It's not always the tech, even though folks are asking you for the tech. 00:23:39.867 --> 00:23:43.087 There's a lot of value and some of the other stuff that you have 00:23:43.377 --> 00:23:46.057 that even if you're light on the tech, if you're heavy on some of 00:23:46.057 --> 00:23:46.959 the other stuff that you're doing. 00:23:47.257 --> 00:23:50.727 And you can convince , the person interviewing you that, that 00:23:50.737 --> 00:23:53.627 really matters, then there you go. 00:23:54.067 --> 00:23:54.397 Right? 00:23:54.407 --> 00:23:56.427 So don't sell that stuff short. 00:23:56.802 --> 00:23:59.692 Duke: will put some of the links for some of the job for the jobs. 00:24:00.007 --> 00:24:04.267 In the ServiceNow world, in the description, so you gotta know what 00:24:04.267 --> 00:24:10.177 you're aiming for, but just know that you just can't understate your background. 00:24:10.477 --> 00:24:14.367 If you're coming from a past career in something, it's got transferable 00:24:14.367 --> 00:24:21.127 skills, and I guess another way to, to, to, Come to this too is like everything 00:24:21.467 --> 00:24:23.747 boils down to time and money, right? 00:24:24.022 --> 00:24:24.422 CJ: Yeah, 00:24:25.467 --> 00:24:26.987 Duke: Time, money, and maybe risk. 00:24:27.577 --> 00:24:30.557 And those are like other ways of saying money too, I guess. 00:24:32.217 --> 00:24:38.237 So in so far as you're able, try and get to the point where you saved time, 00:24:38.257 --> 00:24:40.807 or you saved money, as best as you can. 00:24:40.807 --> 00:24:42.197 CJ: I think that's a good idea, too. 00:24:42.227 --> 00:24:45.077 these are just skills that translate no matter what industry you're in. 00:24:45.977 --> 00:24:46.347 Right? 00:24:46.377 --> 00:24:49.507 And, and because of that you can actually, um. 00:24:50.717 --> 00:24:55.827 They, they are good skills that everyone is looking for and look, let's be honest. 00:24:56.307 --> 00:24:59.007 Nobody writes really good job descriptions in any way. 00:24:59.357 --> 00:25:00.087 Duke: Not even. 00:25:00.467 --> 00:25:03.257 Yeah, I can't remember the last time I saw a really good job description. 00:25:03.657 --> 00:25:05.537 Hey, there's another example I want to bring up. 00:25:05.567 --> 00:25:07.997 I'm sure we put it on one of our other episodes. 00:25:07.997 --> 00:25:09.397 Some of these are starting to blend in together. 00:25:10.037 --> 00:25:10.457 But, 00:25:10.757 --> 00:25:11.607 CJ: We've done a few. 00:25:11.977 --> 00:25:13.677 Duke: yeah, there's one. 00:25:14.257 --> 00:25:15.857 If I said it once, I'm sorry, I'll say it again. 00:25:16.887 --> 00:25:20.277 If you imagine that Jeff Bezos is like, Hey, listen, I got my bag. 00:25:20.617 --> 00:25:23.497 I don't have to worry about running amazon anymore And he just throws 00:25:23.497 --> 00:25:26.167 a dart at a dark board with all kinds of jobs on it He decides. 00:25:26.427 --> 00:25:27.767 Oh, yeah service now admin. 00:25:27.817 --> 00:25:28.927 I'll see what I can do like that. 00:25:29.487 --> 00:25:29.867 CJ: Yeah. 00:25:30.367 --> 00:25:30.667 Yep. 00:25:31.977 --> 00:25:33.367 Duke: would you hire? 00:25:33.972 --> 00:25:37.552 Jeff Bezos or some other ServiceNow admin candidate. 00:25:39.252 --> 00:25:40.252 I'll tell you what I would do. 00:25:40.302 --> 00:25:42.232 I would hire Jeff Bezos in a second. 00:25:42.597 --> 00:25:46.357 Even knowing that he's got no ServiceNow priors, none. 00:25:46.612 --> 00:25:47.062 CJ: Okay. 00:25:47.387 --> 00:25:51.447 Duke: You know just from watching his career that he has had to solve like 00:25:52.497 --> 00:25:57.567 infinitely complex technology issues, people issues, operation issues. 00:25:57.697 --> 00:25:59.627 He knows how to get it done. 00:26:00.067 --> 00:26:03.657 And he can tell you exactly, I'm sure that guy's can fill a month worth 00:26:03.657 --> 00:26:09.977 of beer nights on stories of crazy stuff that he saved Amazon through. 00:26:10.037 --> 00:26:12.597 . And so I want that for my team 00:26:13.942 --> 00:26:14.772 CJ: That's a good point. 00:26:14.937 --> 00:26:15.537 Duke: and he'll like. 00:26:16.232 --> 00:26:20.332 We just know through what he's done that he can figure out the rest of it. 00:26:21.692 --> 00:26:23.442 Not everybody's Jeff Bezos, obviously, 00:26:23.682 --> 00:26:24.402 CJ: I get you. 00:26:24.402 --> 00:26:31.772 I mean, you're basically saying, would you take somebody who has , a track 00:26:31.772 --> 00:26:35.842 record of amazing success, even though they don't have experience in the 00:26:35.852 --> 00:26:40.222 industry that you're hiring from for, or the job that you're hiring for, or 00:26:40.242 --> 00:26:45.112 would you not hire that person and then go after someone who has the specific 00:26:45.382 --> 00:26:49.972 experience in the technology that you're hiring for, but does not have the 00:26:49.972 --> 00:26:52.062 same amazing track record of success. 00:26:52.062 --> 00:26:57.642 And I do think, , from that perspective is an easy, easy, easy decision, right? 00:26:57.842 --> 00:27:00.452 , you give me somebody who has on their resume. 00:27:00.927 --> 00:27:02.677 I did this, I did that, I did this, I did that. 00:27:02.677 --> 00:27:02.847 Right. 00:27:02.847 --> 00:27:03.937 These were all successful. 00:27:03.937 --> 00:27:05.877 Like you, here's my references, call them up. 00:27:05.887 --> 00:27:07.197 They'll tell you how amazing I am. 00:27:07.357 --> 00:27:07.557 Right. 00:27:07.557 --> 00:27:10.597 And all of that stuff is in, automotive industry. 00:27:10.597 --> 00:27:11.037 Right. 00:27:11.347 --> 00:27:15.107 And you're hiring for a service now developer and they say, 00:27:15.977 --> 00:27:18.107 I can, I don't know it yet. 00:27:18.517 --> 00:27:20.257 But this is my track record of success. 00:27:20.287 --> 00:27:22.857 I will know it by the time you need me to, right? 00:27:23.707 --> 00:27:28.467 Duke: think we got to be careful about going from zero , I think we'd be hard 00:27:28.467 --> 00:27:31.297 pressed to find somebody who would go right from the mechanic shop right into 00:27:31.307 --> 00:27:34.327 the service now admin position because you need a little bit of the tech stuff. 00:27:34.337 --> 00:27:37.177 But that that stuff is going to wash out in the interview anyway. 00:27:38.217 --> 00:27:41.987 CJ: I don't know man here I mean I often think to myself like what would 00:27:41.987 --> 00:27:45.297 I be doing if I wasn't doing this and I think I'd be a mechanic and the 00:27:45.307 --> 00:27:48.337 Reason I say that is because of all the troubleshooting and problem solving 00:27:48.337 --> 00:27:50.717 that mechanics have to do right that 00:27:50.937 --> 00:27:53.807 Duke: I don't think I don't think you could walk in even as good 00:27:53.807 --> 00:27:56.997 as you are is explaining your service now value propositions. 00:27:56.997 --> 00:27:57.287 Right? 00:27:58.017 --> 00:28:00.277 You couldn't walk into a mechanic shop and just say, like, Hey, 00:28:00.277 --> 00:28:01.297 make me billable tomorrow. 00:28:01.297 --> 00:28:01.567 Right? 00:28:01.757 --> 00:28:02.407 So there's still, 00:28:02.587 --> 00:28:03.327 CJ: I couldn't do that. 00:28:03.587 --> 00:28:07.297 Duke: but with a little bit, like, maybe you go to a mechanic school, whatever 00:28:07.297 --> 00:28:08.727 mechanics do to become mechanics, right? 00:28:08.987 --> 00:28:12.977 Maybe you do that and you come out fresh there, but then you 00:28:13.007 --> 00:28:15.377 like parlaying your past service. 00:28:15.377 --> 00:28:19.047 Now, value, all I'm saying is these are like force multipliers versus 00:28:19.047 --> 00:28:24.247 replacements for hard technical skill, and it's aimed at those people who, maybe 00:28:24.247 --> 00:28:27.649 they've gone to the next gen program, or maybe they've done a year of working 00:28:27.649 --> 00:28:29.331 as a service now resource somewhere. 00:28:29.331 --> 00:28:30.452 They're trying to get. 00:28:30.452 --> 00:28:35.272 Deeper in, they're trying to sound more compelling and they 00:28:35.272 --> 00:28:38.492 happen to have a little bit more background that they could rely on. 00:28:39.187 --> 00:28:39.897 CJ: Absolutely, man. 00:28:39.897 --> 00:28:41.587 I think that makes a whole lot of sense. 00:28:42.027 --> 00:28:42.307 Right? 00:28:42.397 --> 00:28:46.307 , and no, I definitely couldn't be a mechanic, but this this sleep 00:28:46.307 --> 00:28:51.337 at a holiday Inn last night, but Duke, we're at 36 minutes record. 00:28:52.287 --> 00:28:53.982 Keep going or you want to wrap? 00:28:54.882 --> 00:28:57.932 Duke: no, I think we'll wrap it up here and maybe it's a shorter episode, but, 00:28:57.982 --> 00:28:59.142 CJ: would this be a short episode? 00:28:59.172 --> 00:29:01.772 Like it's been a while and how long do we typically record? 00:29:02.182 --> 00:29:03.092 Duke: 45 minutes. 00:29:03.192 --> 00:29:03.592 CJ: Oh shit. 00:29:03.612 --> 00:29:04.462 Let's keep going then 00:29:05.512 --> 00:29:08.222 Duke: I don't know if I have anything else. 00:29:09.742 --> 00:29:11.652 I think just getting back into the swing of things, right? 00:29:11.842 --> 00:29:12.562 CJ: Yeah, all right 00:29:12.592 --> 00:29:14.452 Duke: Ring, ring rust is real, my friend. 00:29:15.312 --> 00:29:17.922 CJ: bro, like i'm over like it's like all right. 00:29:17.922 --> 00:29:18.392 Yeah. 00:29:18.392 --> 00:29:18.652 All right. 00:29:18.652 --> 00:29:19.492 How do you talk? 00:29:19.512 --> 00:29:20.082 Uh, 00:29:22.362 --> 00:29:22.792 I mean, it's 00:29:23.022 --> 00:29:25.562 Duke: we were cracking these things out like once a week, 00:29:25.882 --> 00:29:27.192 sometimes even twice a week. 00:29:27.202 --> 00:29:30.082 And then it was just like I went right into that into post production 00:29:30.082 --> 00:29:33.312 and the same night I published and now it's just like wow. 00:29:34.122 --> 00:29:40.922 CJ: We have recorded twice in a day before and now it's like, whoa, whoa, 00:29:40.932 --> 00:29:44.732 it is, it is real, but, , it feels good to get back in the saddle, right? 00:29:44.792 --> 00:29:47.822 , to talk about these things again , and to get back out here, you know, I 00:29:47.877 --> 00:29:51.587 Duke: more episodes to come and hey, if you got an idea just put it into whatever 00:29:51.587 --> 00:29:53.677 chat you see this episode posted on. 00:29:53.677 --> 00:29:55.257 And I guess we'll see you on the next one. 00:29:55.972 --> 00:29:56.482 CJ: hollow.