WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en-GB 00:00:08.350 --> 00:00:12.550 Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader, and this is the Silvercore podcast. 00:00:13.380 --> 00:00:17.930 Silvercore has been providing its members with the skills and knowledge 00:00:17.949 --> 00:00:22.620 necessary to be confident and proficient in the outdoors for over 20 years. 00:00:22.710 --> 00:00:26.790 And we make it easier for people to deepen their connection to the natural world. 00:00:27.730 --> 00:00:30.439 If you enjoy the positive and educational content. 00:00:31.750 --> 00:00:36.710 Please let others know by sharing, commenting, and following so that 00:00:36.720 --> 00:00:39.630 you can join in on everything that Silvercore stands for. 00:00:40.700 --> 00:00:43.340 If you'd like to learn more about becoming a member of the 00:00:43.340 --> 00:00:47.929 Silvercore club and community, visit our website at silvercore. 00:00:47.940 --> 00:00:48.370 ca. 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:55.670 He was an extremely talented footballer in his youth, representing England for 00:00:55.670 --> 00:00:56.784 the English school's football association. 00:00:56.815 --> 00:01:00.855 Association of the age of 16 and is now the co founder of the multi million 00:01:00.855 --> 00:01:05.720 pound technical clothing company through dark In between those times, he served 00:01:05.720 --> 00:01:10.080 an impressive 13 years of distinguished and decorated military service, 10 00:01:10.140 --> 00:01:12.120 with the UK special forces, SPS. 00:01:12.530 --> 00:01:16.440 And his last three years as a highly decorated chief sniper 00:01:16.440 --> 00:01:18.059 instructor and demolitions expert. 00:01:18.360 --> 00:01:19.369 He's written the book. 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:22.120 The hard road will take you home and stars in the hit show. 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:23.060 Who dares wins. 00:01:23.090 --> 00:01:26.830 I can assure you today's guest comes with some phenomenal stories to tell. 00:01:27.320 --> 00:01:29.344 Welcome to the Silvercore podcast. 00:01:29.805 --> 00:01:31.975 Anthony Stas, Stasiker. 00:01:32.765 --> 00:01:33.295 Staz: Travis. 00:01:33.305 --> 00:01:33.595 Wow. 00:01:33.595 --> 00:01:34.845 What an introduction that is. 00:01:34.885 --> 00:01:35.905 Um, thank you. 00:01:35.915 --> 00:01:36.795 Thank you for having me. 00:01:36.835 --> 00:01:37.645 It's an absolute pleasure. 00:01:37.645 --> 00:01:39.215 And I'm, uh, I'm looking forward to this conversation. 00:01:39.730 --> 00:01:43.320 Travis Bader: So am I, so am I, you know, at least I wasn't up at, uh, well, zero 00:01:43.320 --> 00:01:45.080 to 30, like it was a couple of days ago. 00:01:45.080 --> 00:01:49.970 And I was a, a day early for our podcast, getting everything prepped and ready. 00:01:49.970 --> 00:01:52.179 And anyway, a day earlier 00:01:52.180 --> 00:01:54.700 Staz: is better than an hour late as I was, uh, in our original dates. 00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:56.200 Yeah. 00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:58.370 HR had slipped, but I didn't tell anybody. 00:01:58.410 --> 00:01:58.690 Travis Bader: Yeah. 00:01:59.630 --> 00:02:04.290 It all works out, you know, so through darks, a UK based company, I'm over 00:02:04.290 --> 00:02:05.650 here on the West coast of Canada. 00:02:06.195 --> 00:02:09.305 And I first learned about through dark right here in 00:02:09.305 --> 00:02:11.305 the Silvercore podcast studio. 00:02:11.305 --> 00:02:14.624 I was sitting down and chatting with a friend of mine, Seb Lavoie, 00:02:14.625 --> 00:02:20.655 he's ex head BC RCMP ERT, and he's wearing a through dark shirt, and I 00:02:20.665 --> 00:02:23.014 guess the ADHD kicks in and I'm like. 00:02:23.290 --> 00:02:25.600 What's this through dark thing about never heard of it before. 00:02:25.830 --> 00:02:26.500 He goes off. 00:02:26.510 --> 00:02:29.270 He's like a couple of tier one special forces guys. 00:02:29.270 --> 00:02:33.520 They got together, the technical clothing company, they apply the same mentality 00:02:33.529 --> 00:02:37.839 and that they learn through special forces, the fit, the finish, the customer 00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:41.529 service, every step along the way, you know, you're dealing with professionals. 00:02:41.539 --> 00:02:43.150 And I thought, all right, I'll bite. 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:45.140 I go on and pick up a couple of shirts. 00:02:45.150 --> 00:02:49.959 Cause I'm six, six, 250 pounds and big and tall usually means. 00:02:50.285 --> 00:02:52.845 Big and wide, and it doesn't really work for me. 00:02:52.845 --> 00:02:55.174 And so I picked out these shirts, they fit awesome. 00:02:55.225 --> 00:02:59.045 And if you've looked over the, I don't know, the last 30 or so episodes, you'll 00:02:59.045 --> 00:03:01.454 see me sporting a through dark shirt. 00:03:01.464 --> 00:03:04.414 And in this one, I've got one of the through dark hoodies on. 00:03:04.434 --> 00:03:06.944 So thank you for making some phenomenal kit. 00:03:07.095 --> 00:03:07.484 Love it. 00:03:07.505 --> 00:03:08.464 It's, it's amazing. 00:03:09.415 --> 00:03:10.075 Staz: Thank you, Travis. 00:03:10.075 --> 00:03:12.155 No, thank you and appreciate you flying the flag. 00:03:12.155 --> 00:03:15.835 Also, it was, uh, it's good to see it and kind of crazy as well, considering, 00:03:15.835 --> 00:03:17.524 you know, we are a UK based company. 00:03:17.524 --> 00:03:17.905 You're correct. 00:03:17.995 --> 00:03:21.435 It's it's all what the majority 90 percent of our business or 95 percent 00:03:21.435 --> 00:03:23.135 of our business is direct consumer. 00:03:23.245 --> 00:03:24.085 Everything's online. 00:03:24.085 --> 00:03:27.390 You know, if you've ever, uh, Looked at through darker on any kind of social 00:03:27.390 --> 00:03:30.170 media platform or, or browse the website. 00:03:30.170 --> 00:03:32.920 You will probably know that our geeks will attack you from all 00:03:32.920 --> 00:03:36.910 angles, from email and once you, once you've got on there, that's it. 00:03:36.929 --> 00:03:38.779 We've got, we've got, we've got, we've got you in. 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:40.499 So, um, no, I appreciate that. 00:03:40.500 --> 00:03:42.659 And it's, um, it's been an incredible journey, I guess. 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:46.180 And we can cover off on this, I think from, you know, um, let's start at 00:03:46.190 --> 00:03:49.140 the start, you know, in terms of myself and a small bio, and then 00:03:49.140 --> 00:03:50.090 we can talk all the way through. 00:03:50.625 --> 00:03:53.915 In terms of how I've ended up, you know, with myself and Louis, uh, Louis 00:03:53.915 --> 00:03:55.145 Tinsley, the co founder of Threwdown. 00:03:56.095 --> 00:04:00.165 So yeah, I had, um, you know, I kind of, from England, I grew up, um, in the 00:04:00.174 --> 00:04:02.204 north of England, Lancashire, Wigan. 00:04:02.254 --> 00:04:06.795 Um, it's a town that's renowned for playing rugby league, uh, and eating pies. 00:04:06.874 --> 00:04:10.354 That's pretty much the only two good things that come out of, out of Wigan. 00:04:10.355 --> 00:04:14.295 I had a fairly normal upbringing, an older sibling, uh, my brother Andrew's a 00:04:14.304 --> 00:04:15.695 couple of, couple of years older than me. 00:04:16.070 --> 00:04:19.950 Um, it was kind of blue collar upbringing, you know, I just remember being outdoors 00:04:19.990 --> 00:04:24.380 lots, getting up to mischief, you know, bikes and just causing chaos like any, 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:28.079 any kid does, I guess, and skateboarding and biking and, but just being outdoors. 00:04:28.080 --> 00:04:31.319 That's the main thing I remember is just always being outside and having 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:33.030 fun, you know, and enjoying life. 00:04:33.750 --> 00:04:38.090 Um, having a few scuffles along the way and playing sport and rugby in particular. 00:04:38.340 --> 00:04:41.940 Um, and then I guess around the age of six, that's the kind of, when 00:04:41.940 --> 00:04:46.340 I first had my, my first sort of taste of, of, of adversity, I guess. 00:04:46.380 --> 00:04:50.090 Um, my parents split up, they, they, uh, became divorced. 00:04:50.100 --> 00:04:53.860 So, what that meant for me and my older brother, we, we relocated 00:04:53.860 --> 00:04:56.129 to Nottingham, or Nottinghamshire. 00:04:56.130 --> 00:05:01.310 Mansfield is a pit village, pit town, uh, in the kind of East Midlands of the UK. 00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:03.979 And, you know, life changes, doesn't it? 00:05:03.979 --> 00:05:06.969 You know, you're sort of dislocated, removed from that, 00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:08.289 that position there in Wigan. 00:05:08.400 --> 00:05:11.550 And, and, you know, you're thrust into a new environment, new, 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:13.960 new kids, new school, new teams. 00:05:13.960 --> 00:05:17.439 And I remember one of the first things actually turning up to, to my, you 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:21.770 know, the school and immediately I've, I don't know if you've been to England, 00:05:21.770 --> 00:05:24.520 but there's about 40, 40 different. 00:05:24.804 --> 00:05:29.145 Um, kind of dialects and languages and accents knowing from Manchester 00:05:29.145 --> 00:05:33.944 to Liverpool, to Scottish, to Welsh, to East Midlands, to the South, to 00:05:33.944 --> 00:05:36.024 London, to Cockneys, to everything. 00:05:36.024 --> 00:05:39.635 So I had quite a Northern twang turned up at, you know, in Mansfield. 00:05:39.635 --> 00:05:42.775 I sounded different, looked different, you know, everything that I was good at in 00:05:42.775 --> 00:05:46.844 terms of sport and rugby, you know, there wasn't a rugby post or goal in sight. 00:05:46.844 --> 00:05:49.585 It had all changed to football or soccer as you guys probably. 00:05:51.104 --> 00:05:53.745 I had to learn quite quickly out of a few, you know, you have a few 00:05:53.745 --> 00:05:56.865 fights, you sort of find your position and your rank of order within that. 00:05:57.130 --> 00:05:58.250 Within the school. 00:05:58.719 --> 00:06:02.810 Um, and that, that was me then sort of continuing then on to play sport. 00:06:02.849 --> 00:06:05.419 You know, I'd always been quite a sporty person, not necessarily 00:06:05.419 --> 00:06:08.820 academic, but that's not to say that, you know, I didn't enjoy school. 00:06:08.820 --> 00:06:10.400 I probably just enjoyed school for the same reasons. 00:06:10.400 --> 00:06:15.190 Most people do, you know, it was the social aspect, you know, and sport in 00:06:15.190 --> 00:06:16.810 particular, so I started to play soccer. 00:06:17.170 --> 00:06:21.390 Um, got quite good at soccer around about the age of 10, 11. 00:06:21.450 --> 00:06:25.289 Um, I started getting involved with a professional, uh, football team, a local 00:06:25.289 --> 00:06:26.690 football team called Mansfield Town. 00:06:27.159 --> 00:06:31.250 And then that's when I guess I had my, my main sort of, uh, my 00:06:31.250 --> 00:06:32.930 main kick in the balls, I guess. 00:06:32.930 --> 00:06:37.170 And my main, um, face of adversity was when my mum passed away suddenly. 00:06:37.200 --> 00:06:39.160 You know, it was a, it was a brain hemorrhage. 00:06:39.180 --> 00:06:41.980 I was 11 years old, you know, and it was overnight. 00:06:42.164 --> 00:06:44.364 You know, fortunately I was staying with my, my father at the 00:06:44.364 --> 00:06:49.334 time up north and yeah, my world sort of changed, uh, inextricably 00:06:49.494 --> 00:06:51.254 overnight and my brothers as well. 00:06:51.654 --> 00:06:55.764 So we were then in a house with a stepfather that we, you know, and 00:06:55.764 --> 00:06:58.754 with hindsight now I can look back and say, you know, that must have 00:06:58.754 --> 00:07:00.359 been a very difficult period of. 00:07:01.400 --> 00:07:03.879 for him as well to deal with, you know, losing his wife, but now he's 00:07:03.879 --> 00:07:07.320 got two kids that aren't his kids, you know, and, and we were, we 00:07:07.320 --> 00:07:08.979 weren't especially easy kids, I guess. 00:07:09.010 --> 00:07:14.669 Um, so I can look back now and with hindsight, uh, and, and feel, uh, um, feel 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:19.480 quite differently about that, but, you know, but ultimately we were two kids and 00:07:19.489 --> 00:07:21.069 we were left with a, with a stepfather. 00:07:21.069 --> 00:07:24.289 And thankfully, um, my grandparents, my mother's. 00:07:24.445 --> 00:07:26.375 Parents relocated from Wigan. 00:07:26.385 --> 00:07:27.685 They moved down to Nottingham. 00:07:27.705 --> 00:07:30.165 You know, we, they bought a small little bungalow in the, in the 00:07:30.165 --> 00:07:32.015 village, a little three bed bungalow. 00:07:32.035 --> 00:07:33.274 Me and my brother moved in with them. 00:07:33.275 --> 00:07:35.515 So you have that readjustment then again. 00:07:35.515 --> 00:07:38.795 Well, next thing I'm living with the two old people, you know, in my opinion, 00:07:38.795 --> 00:07:43.134 they're too old people and, you know, and, and, and I just transitioned 00:07:43.135 --> 00:07:44.635 into secondary school as well. 00:07:45.255 --> 00:07:46.604 And again, looking back now, what. 00:07:47.870 --> 00:07:52.070 What an, what a, an ultimate sacrifice, you know, from, from, from 00:07:52.070 --> 00:07:53.510 my grandparents to move down huge. 00:07:53.510 --> 00:07:56.450 To sell their house, to move away from their, their friends, their loved 00:07:56.450 --> 00:08:00.590 ones, you know, to ultimately bring up and support me and my older brother. 00:08:00.650 --> 00:08:03.560 And they did a, a, a fucking fantastic job of that. 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:07.905 And I'll be forever in debt to, to, to those, you know, to, 00:08:08.210 --> 00:08:09.920 to amazing people to this day. 00:08:09.950 --> 00:08:12.880 And, you know, so that's where I was at 11. 00:08:12.885 --> 00:08:14.770 I started playing football more, I guess. 00:08:14.830 --> 00:08:15.880 What did it do to me? 00:08:16.544 --> 00:08:20.354 It shook me to my core, but what it did do, I guess, looking back now, is it, it 00:08:20.354 --> 00:08:24.215 really lit a fire in my belly, you know, it made me quite angry at the world, 00:08:24.215 --> 00:08:25.724 you know, why, why has this happened? 00:08:25.734 --> 00:08:30.114 But thankfully, I kind of, uh, harnessed and honed in on that, on that, on 00:08:30.114 --> 00:08:31.864 that anger, you know, and that fire. 00:08:32.225 --> 00:08:36.725 Yeah, and really put it into, into sport and in particular football, soccer. 00:08:37.335 --> 00:08:40.105 So I then started playing for a professional team and I go all the way 00:08:40.105 --> 00:08:43.475 through sort of secondary school, quite turbulent time, you know, again, not 00:08:43.475 --> 00:08:47.155 very academic getting into chaos and mischief, but football was my one kind of. 00:08:47.485 --> 00:08:52.085 My one star, the North sort of star that I, that I was kind of really focused on. 00:08:52.095 --> 00:08:54.395 And I put all my eggs and energy into that basket. 00:08:54.445 --> 00:08:56.075 You know, I was playing at high level. 00:08:56.085 --> 00:08:57.655 I was representing England school boys. 00:08:57.655 --> 00:08:59.575 It's the highest sort of level that you can get to. 00:08:59.865 --> 00:09:02.795 I was affiliated with premier league football clubs, et cetera, et cetera. 00:09:03.245 --> 00:09:05.385 Uh, but I also used to like racing motocross as well. 00:09:05.395 --> 00:09:06.715 Travis probably most. 00:09:07.085 --> 00:09:08.035 But young boys do. 00:09:08.085 --> 00:09:11.765 And I remember leaving, I was at Fulham at the time, again, Premier League 00:09:11.775 --> 00:09:14.105 football team training really well. 00:09:14.105 --> 00:09:16.265 I was again, England, you know, everything was going great. 00:09:16.755 --> 00:09:18.765 And we were, we, we'd sort of finished the season. 00:09:18.765 --> 00:09:21.864 We're back home for a few weeks rest and break. 00:09:21.865 --> 00:09:25.644 I think it was a Christmas break and sort of them sort of having the 00:09:25.835 --> 00:09:28.305 guys talk to me and say, look, go back, just maintain your fitness. 00:09:28.305 --> 00:09:29.175 Look after yourselves. 00:09:29.725 --> 00:09:30.625 Don't play football. 00:09:30.655 --> 00:09:31.775 Don't do any sort of sport. 00:09:32.145 --> 00:09:35.515 Kind of keep yourself ticking over and main thing, don't get injured. 00:09:35.555 --> 00:09:37.115 You know, I think we all know what this story is. 00:09:37.444 --> 00:09:40.395 I went back, ripped it up with my mates on the local motocross track 00:09:40.395 --> 00:09:42.555 and dislocated my knee pretty badly. 00:09:42.785 --> 00:09:45.115 And to remember at the time thinking, shit, you know, this isn't good. 00:09:45.115 --> 00:09:47.984 And then trying to push the bike back in the garage while my granddad's looking 00:09:47.985 --> 00:09:49.554 at me, who's my biggest supporter. 00:09:49.800 --> 00:09:52.530 You know, he'd never missed a football match in his life, took me to all the 00:09:52.530 --> 00:09:56.060 games all over the country, all over, you know, and, and him just sort of looking 00:09:56.060 --> 00:09:57.520 at me thinking, what have you done? 00:09:57.540 --> 00:09:58.839 And it was trying to hide that. 00:09:58.869 --> 00:10:03.129 Anyway, I sort of rehabbed for a bit, went back to Fulham, um, 00:10:03.180 --> 00:10:05.839 told my dad an accident, sort of jogging or something like that. 00:10:05.890 --> 00:10:08.600 Um, they, Cess the knee had a scan. 00:10:08.630 --> 00:10:09.579 I needed surgery. 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:10.699 They put me through surgery. 00:10:10.699 --> 00:10:13.250 I had rehab my first game back My knee went again. 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:17.030 I just sort of remember thinking oh shit I've kind of shot this now and this 00:10:17.060 --> 00:10:20.939 and that's a pivotal age for Becoming while getting a YTS a youth sort of 00:10:20.950 --> 00:10:22.410 scholarship at that at that time. 00:10:22.410 --> 00:10:26.540 I was released from there at that point It was a quick reassessment. 00:10:26.540 --> 00:10:27.350 What can I do? 00:10:27.350 --> 00:10:31.545 I then went to college who joined West Nottinghamshire College on a BTEC 00:10:31.545 --> 00:10:33.205 National Diploma in Sports Science. 00:10:33.595 --> 00:10:34.815 That was a two year course. 00:10:34.885 --> 00:10:36.505 I start rehabbing playing football again. 00:10:36.505 --> 00:10:39.595 I'm getting paid to play football, all this kind of stuff, semi professionally, 00:10:39.595 --> 00:10:43.055 but also whilst being at college, just kind of fun, the college side of things. 00:10:43.715 --> 00:10:47.335 I then start representing the British Colleges team, so the whole 00:10:47.345 --> 00:10:48.645 of the British Colleges, you know. 00:10:48.695 --> 00:10:50.735 Um, I start playing for those guys. 00:10:50.895 --> 00:10:52.915 We actually came across to America. 00:10:52.995 --> 00:10:55.745 Uh, there's a big tournament at the University of South Carolina. 00:10:55.925 --> 00:10:57.345 We played the American All Stars. 00:10:57.345 --> 00:10:59.345 I think we beat them 9 0 or something ridiculous. 00:10:59.930 --> 00:11:04.050 Uh, and while we were there, um, there was, there was loads of scouts there from 00:11:04.050 --> 00:11:07.930 different universities around the country, and I got offered a full scholarship, 00:11:08.030 --> 00:11:11.950 um, you know, one of the universities there, and that was all going ahead, 00:11:11.980 --> 00:11:15.740 filled out all the forms, uh, incorrectly filled, two weeks before I'm flying, 00:11:15.750 --> 00:11:19.325 you know, I, I, Uh, the coach gets in touch with me, like, what have you done? 00:11:19.335 --> 00:11:19.815 Like, what? 00:11:19.865 --> 00:11:22.355 I filled out an amateur eligibility form incorrectly. 00:11:22.555 --> 00:11:23.955 You know, it was basic questions. 00:11:23.955 --> 00:11:24.984 Have you been paid to play? 00:11:24.984 --> 00:11:25.244 Yes. 00:11:25.245 --> 00:11:27.184 Have you, have you had a contract? 00:11:27.225 --> 00:11:27.575 Yes. 00:11:27.585 --> 00:11:28.985 Have you ever received royalties? 00:11:29.005 --> 00:11:29.525 Yes. 00:11:29.825 --> 00:11:32.255 You know, that's, those things are quite normal and part and parcel of 00:11:32.255 --> 00:11:34.225 the UK sort of, um, football system. 00:11:34.834 --> 00:11:37.795 Anyway, the college, the league deemed me to be a professional. 00:11:37.795 --> 00:11:41.335 I couldn't play in, in what is then amateur, uh, league over 00:11:41.335 --> 00:11:42.645 there in terms of the university. 00:11:42.645 --> 00:11:44.725 So that kind of put a stop to that. 00:11:45.225 --> 00:11:49.775 I then left college kind of at a bit of a miss and, and just went on a bit of a 00:11:49.775 --> 00:11:53.185 rampage for a couple of years, just going out, you know, still playing football, 00:11:53.185 --> 00:11:56.924 semi professionally being paid, but, you know, drinking and, and that ages 00:11:56.924 --> 00:11:59.625 well, you know, you're, you're finding women and everything else and you're 00:11:59.635 --> 00:12:02.685 just, you're just being a young boy, aren't you really, you know, not really 00:12:02.715 --> 00:12:04.055 just trying to understand who you are. 00:12:04.580 --> 00:12:08.310 Um, I work, I then go and work in a local council run gym. 00:12:08.340 --> 00:12:10.600 I become a gym instructor, you know, a personal trainer. 00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:12.240 Fitness has been a big part of my life. 00:12:12.630 --> 00:12:15.430 And around this time, sort of, uh, Iraq was kicking off. 00:12:15.540 --> 00:12:17.509 Uh, you know, you had the twin towers and all this stuff. 00:12:17.710 --> 00:12:20.010 And I started thinking, I started reading books as well. 00:12:20.010 --> 00:12:21.489 Books that are, that interested me. 00:12:21.489 --> 00:12:23.170 Travis, things that I was like, you know, I wasn't. 00:12:23.385 --> 00:12:25.225 Being voluntold to read at school. 00:12:25.225 --> 00:12:26.385 It was like, well, what interests me? 00:12:26.385 --> 00:12:28.525 Like the military and history and everything else. 00:12:28.535 --> 00:12:28.675 And what 00:12:29.105 --> 00:12:30.465 Travis Bader: are the zero immediate action? 00:12:31.005 --> 00:12:32.074 Staz: Exactly. 00:12:32.194 --> 00:12:35.895 You know, and those were big books for me and really planted a seed in my head in 00:12:35.895 --> 00:12:39.675 terms of, and look, I thought I kind of felt like I still had some more to give. 00:12:39.675 --> 00:12:40.655 I was like, is this it is. 00:12:41.035 --> 00:12:44.995 You know, and, and I felt like I'd almost made it as a professional footballer. 00:12:44.995 --> 00:12:46.735 And is this going to be me working in a gym? 00:12:46.735 --> 00:12:48.615 And that's not to slight on people that work in gyms. 00:12:48.615 --> 00:12:51.605 I just, for me, I thought, fuck, I thought I had more to give. 00:12:51.605 --> 00:12:55.394 And so I started looking at the military and oddly, nobody from my 00:12:55.395 --> 00:12:57.074 family had been in the military before. 00:12:57.075 --> 00:13:00.344 So it's not like it was a path that was, that was, was, was well trodden. 00:13:00.345 --> 00:13:05.935 Um, so I started looking at what is the best, the hardest sort of basic 00:13:06.805 --> 00:13:08.214 infantry course that you can do. 00:13:08.870 --> 00:13:12.660 And for us in the UK, it was, it was a toss up between the Royal Marine Commandos 00:13:12.660 --> 00:13:14.520 or the Parachute Regiment, you know. 00:13:15.090 --> 00:13:18.810 Um, I went into the local Armed Forces Careers Office in Nottingham 00:13:18.869 --> 00:13:22.669 and it was, uh, a big Royal Marine stood in front of me and, you know, 00:13:22.670 --> 00:13:23.860 he sort of led me down that path. 00:13:23.869 --> 00:13:27.310 So anyway, I start going through all the tests and all the bits and pieces 00:13:27.310 --> 00:13:28.760 to join the Royal Marines commandos. 00:13:28.760 --> 00:13:32.170 I then, I then became obsessed with the Royal Marines, you know, and passing, 00:13:32.630 --> 00:13:35.860 you know, I joined day one, week one at the commando training center, Royal 00:13:35.860 --> 00:13:39.960 Marines in Limston and, um, you know, bright eyed, bushy tailed and oversized 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:41.280 suit and a suitcase in my hand. 00:13:41.280 --> 00:13:44.909 And that was me for 32 weeks, uh, you know, and fortunately passed. 00:13:45.065 --> 00:13:47.545 The whole course as a, as an original. 00:13:47.565 --> 00:13:48.745 So I didn't get back to you. 00:13:48.745 --> 00:13:49.625 I didn't become injured. 00:13:49.625 --> 00:13:55.115 I also received, I also received the, um, King's badge award for the top recruit. 00:13:55.165 --> 00:13:58.195 And I had the PT medal for being the fittest guy on the troop. 00:13:58.195 --> 00:14:00.145 So I was kind of like, look, this is, this is my calling. 00:14:00.145 --> 00:14:00.625 This is me. 00:14:01.770 --> 00:14:04.420 More importantly, I just, I fucking love the soldier inside of that. 00:14:04.420 --> 00:14:07.770 I love just kind of crawling around and just the dirt, you know, 00:14:07.770 --> 00:14:09.089 just being a soldier, I guess. 00:14:09.089 --> 00:14:13.290 And, but also the camaraderie as well that was associated in that brotherhood 00:14:13.290 --> 00:14:16.859 that was attached to the military really kind of resonated with me and spoke to me. 00:14:16.899 --> 00:14:20.649 So at the end of that 32 weeks, you know, I passed out, uh, fucking 00:14:20.650 --> 00:14:21.699 snakes and ladders, isn't it? 00:14:21.699 --> 00:14:23.260 You know, life's a game of snakes and ladders. 00:14:23.260 --> 00:14:26.180 You know, it's one minute you're at the top, you've just been, You 00:14:26.180 --> 00:14:29.749 know, you've had your coveted green beret and your stripes put on your 00:14:29.749 --> 00:14:31.930 commando and I'm like, yes, that's me. 00:14:31.930 --> 00:14:36.879 And you, you join a commando unit and it's all the way back down again, you know, 00:14:37.619 --> 00:14:39.409 and you're the new, you're the new kid. 00:14:39.439 --> 00:14:43.739 Um, so I joined, uh, 40 Commando Royal Marines. 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:46.269 I deployed, uh, in January. 00:14:46.299 --> 00:14:46.599 I went out. 00:14:46.925 --> 00:14:52.334 To my, on my first operational deployment to Kabul, Afghanistan, the capital and 00:14:52.855 --> 00:14:56.685 yeah, sort of a boy in a man's world, you know, learn a lot on that, on that 00:14:56.685 --> 00:15:02.114 first tour, you know, um, and yeah, very eye opening, uh, things that we 00:15:02.114 --> 00:15:05.225 can go into in more detail if we want, but yeah, that was a real eye opening 00:15:05.254 --> 00:15:09.115 tour for me, but also on that first tour import, more importantly, that was 00:15:09.115 --> 00:15:10.935 my first exposure to special forces. 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:12.615 I stood on the gates. 00:15:12.675 --> 00:15:15.405 Uh, part of my remit when I wasn't out doing patrols would 00:15:15.405 --> 00:15:18.495 be to man gate and, and the, and the, the security of the camp. 00:15:19.064 --> 00:15:23.324 And in roles, a couple of kind of civilian, uh, SUVs, out steps. 00:15:23.324 --> 00:15:26.115 A load of guys, big hair, big beers, just looking cool. 00:15:26.115 --> 00:15:29.594 Flannel shirts, jeans, different weapons systems, optics radios, 00:15:29.834 --> 00:15:32.655 you know, but they had British, uh, identification at that point. 00:15:32.655 --> 00:15:34.995 It was like, fuck are these guys, you know, sign me up. 00:15:34.995 --> 00:15:35.564 Somebody told. 00:15:36.035 --> 00:15:37.584 Yeah, somebody told me who they were. 00:15:37.614 --> 00:15:40.464 I then started looking more into that and into that sort of stuff 00:15:40.495 --> 00:15:43.035 and, you know, and I think that really planted the seed for me. 00:15:43.055 --> 00:15:46.614 So after that tour, I went back into the Royal Marines, um, 00:15:46.874 --> 00:15:48.094 I had selection on my mind. 00:15:48.155 --> 00:15:49.295 I started looking into it. 00:15:49.584 --> 00:15:52.834 I then put myself forward for the Royal Marine Sniper Course, again, probably 00:15:52.834 --> 00:15:55.644 arguably the hardest infantry course that you can do within the Royal Marines. 00:15:55.774 --> 00:15:58.104 It's very highly regarded as a high attrition rate. 00:15:58.555 --> 00:16:02.685 Uh, again, straight onto that course, um, passed with a distinction. 00:16:03.235 --> 00:16:05.255 And I remember, uh, funny story. 00:16:05.610 --> 00:16:09.570 The, the guy, the chief instructor for the course, um, we'll leave it, we'll 00:16:09.570 --> 00:16:13.400 leave his name out of this, but, um, we didn't get on too well, he was a bit of 00:16:13.400 --> 00:16:18.260 a bully, you know, um, he, I later found out he'd failed selection numerous times, 00:16:18.300 --> 00:16:21.160 um, but anyway, at the end of the course, he's sitting in his office and he's like, 00:16:21.160 --> 00:16:25.240 okay, what, what congratulations, you've got a distinction pass, um, what sniper 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:27.120 billet do you want in the whole Marines? 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:29.940 I, which unit, which sniper troop do you want to go into? 00:16:29.970 --> 00:16:33.690 And I said, look, I, uh, Um, I don't, I'm going on selection, you know, probably 00:16:33.690 --> 00:16:38.710 quite, um, you know, arrogantly at a time, you know, 21, 22 years old, you 00:16:38.710 --> 00:16:42.279 know, um, and he sort of just sat back, nearly spat his tea out and sort of 00:16:42.280 --> 00:16:43.680 laughed, literally laughed in my face. 00:16:43.680 --> 00:16:44.840 Like, you know, good luck with that. 00:16:44.990 --> 00:16:46.030 You know, good luck with that. 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:48.219 That's a different cat, you know, a whole new ball game. 00:16:48.930 --> 00:16:50.310 So I left that kind of thinking. 00:16:51.345 --> 00:16:54.045 You know, he's just absolutely thrown doubt at me and put it again. 00:16:54.055 --> 00:16:55.915 It just lit a little fire for me. 00:16:55.915 --> 00:16:59.565 Another little fire to burn away and another reason to really dig into that. 00:16:59.575 --> 00:17:03.775 So I left, I went back to the unit for a bit and then I, that was me. 00:17:03.775 --> 00:17:04.584 I was everything. 00:17:04.584 --> 00:17:09.044 My soul focus, uh, and, and, and my whole being was consumed by 00:17:09.085 --> 00:17:10.595 passing special forces selection. 00:17:11.714 --> 00:17:14.585 I, uh, went on a briefing course down here in pool. 00:17:14.849 --> 00:17:18.199 Um, that's a prerequisite for being loaded onto the joint 00:17:18.479 --> 00:17:19.699 UK special forces selection. 00:17:19.810 --> 00:17:23.050 Uh, it's a week long, it's probably, as you can imagine, just a week's beasting, 00:17:23.219 --> 00:17:26.839 you know, and it's an opportunity for you to have a slight look at the 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:28.509 unit and them to have a look at you. 00:17:28.909 --> 00:17:31.439 Uh, and there's certain tests within that week that you have to pass 00:17:31.449 --> 00:17:34.719 physically and mentally and aptitude, all that kind of stuff, which I passed. 00:17:35.129 --> 00:17:40.590 I was then loaded on to the, um, selection, uh, zero two zero eight. 00:17:40.590 --> 00:17:42.300 So summer zero. 00:17:42.310 --> 00:17:43.280 What kind of tests were those? 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:46.130 Are you allowed to say physical test? 00:17:46.130 --> 00:17:48.310 Yeah, it was a physical test. 00:17:48.310 --> 00:17:53.210 Everything from the, the, uh, combat fitness test, where it's a certain 00:17:53.219 --> 00:17:56.570 weight, certain time things that, you know, if you don't even pass them, 00:17:56.570 --> 00:18:00.089 just don't even bother, you know, sort of carrying on, um, everything. 00:18:00.100 --> 00:18:02.800 And then to probably still to this day, one of the hardest yumps or 00:18:02.800 --> 00:18:05.730 tabs, tabs that I'd ever done. 00:18:06.860 --> 00:18:09.069 Travis Bader: Yeah. 00:18:09.070 --> 00:18:10.450 Staz: All those, all those fun things. 00:18:10.490 --> 00:18:14.860 Um, and it was over the, the Jurassic coast down here in pool and, um, it 00:18:14.860 --> 00:18:16.240 was, it's called the roller coaster. 00:18:16.579 --> 00:18:22.530 Uh, you know, so, and it's a timed March of 26 K with 70, 80 pounds on your back. 00:18:22.530 --> 00:18:24.630 And I was an absolute snotty mess by the end of that. 00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:29.400 Well, it was an eye opener really just to show you the kind of level that they were 00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:32.930 looking at and the barrier to entry And then there's the shooting stuff as well 00:18:32.930 --> 00:18:36.559 You have to be a basic, not basic, a very high standard of shooting and map reading 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:41.399 and you know Observation and military knowledge and understanding etc So then 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:47.219 I'm loaded on to the joint selection process And there's different phases. 00:18:47.220 --> 00:18:54.080 Phase one is in Wales and that is the hills phase Uh, and again, that's, for 00:18:54.080 --> 00:18:58.499 me, that's just really focusing on your mental and physical robustness, uh, 00:18:58.550 --> 00:19:02.259 over that four week period and your navigational skills, uh, and abilities. 00:19:02.259 --> 00:19:03.249 It's all individual. 00:19:03.529 --> 00:19:04.449 Everything is individual. 00:19:04.449 --> 00:19:05.399 It's timed marches. 00:19:05.540 --> 00:19:06.459 Can you make the grade? 00:19:06.659 --> 00:19:07.219 Here's the bar. 00:19:07.270 --> 00:19:07.899 Here's the bar. 00:19:08.220 --> 00:19:11.890 You know, and anybody that falls below that bar is just chopped and for context, 00:19:11.890 --> 00:19:16.050 there was probably 240 people turned up day one on my course and six of us that 00:19:16.050 --> 00:19:19.390 passed at the end for, for the SBS SAS. 00:19:19.989 --> 00:19:21.470 So again, a high attrition rate. 00:19:21.550 --> 00:19:26.290 Um, so at the end of that, that phase on the hills, uh, you then, uh, 00:19:26.310 --> 00:19:29.780 back, you then go into the jungle, sort of five weeks, acclimatization 00:19:29.790 --> 00:19:32.500 for the first week, beastings up and down the beaches, then you're flown 00:19:32.500 --> 00:19:33.219 under the canopy for four weeks. 00:19:33.220 --> 00:19:33.890 Four weeks. 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:38.130 Uh, and that's more focused around team, you know, again, very physically 00:19:38.130 --> 00:19:41.860 demanding, but it's all around, um, how you communicate, uh, effectively 00:19:41.890 --> 00:19:43.040 and efficiently within the team. 00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:45.659 A lot of selection, there's a steep learning curve. 00:19:45.659 --> 00:19:48.279 It's, can you, uh, put into practice what you're being told? 00:19:48.280 --> 00:19:51.819 You know, they say the basics were very high standard, you know, consistently is 00:19:51.820 --> 00:19:53.250 probably the message there throughout. 00:19:53.780 --> 00:19:57.720 Um, it's like groundhog day, but it's just keep turning up, keep, keep churning. 00:19:57.810 --> 00:20:02.410 Um, and it's, again, a war of attrition, really people that are there at the end. 00:20:02.805 --> 00:20:03.815 What's the mental game on that? 00:20:03.815 --> 00:20:08.025 Like, Oh, I'd say it's horrendous, you know, because most of the, most of the, 00:20:08.415 --> 00:20:13.485 most of the pressure is applied to and from yourself, you know, because you're 00:20:13.515 --> 00:20:17.754 constantly evaluating your own performance rather than just saying, look, I'm here. 00:20:17.805 --> 00:20:20.535 As long as I'm here, you know, don't sort of talk yourself out of anything. 00:20:20.535 --> 00:20:21.815 And, and that happens a lot. 00:20:21.824 --> 00:20:24.675 A lot of people, they'll make a mistake and it might not be a critical mistake, 00:20:24.755 --> 00:20:27.445 you know, because most of the times, you know, you do make a, there's 00:20:27.445 --> 00:20:31.364 safety errors and violations that you can do some more serious than others, 00:20:31.395 --> 00:20:32.315 you know, and some are straight. 00:20:32.639 --> 00:20:36.340 off, get on the chopper, you're out of there, you know, uh, and some are, 00:20:36.510 --> 00:20:39.399 well, okay, that's, that's a kind of a two strike rule, you know, it's, 00:20:39.410 --> 00:20:43.270 it's unsafe, but not, not terribly unsafe that someone might die. 00:20:43.270 --> 00:20:46.590 It's just a mistake, you know, but there's certain things that are put in 00:20:46.590 --> 00:20:51.319 place and you're in a four man team, you know, so how you, you work together 00:20:51.330 --> 00:20:55.199 as a team is very, very important, you know, and, and, but also I think what 00:20:55.209 --> 00:20:56.789 selection does very well over that. 00:20:56.850 --> 00:20:58.820 Period of six, six to nine months. 00:20:58.820 --> 00:21:02.690 Is it, it really reveals your true character, you know, who are you, 00:21:02.690 --> 00:21:06.349 you know, and we all talk about these masks that people wear day to day. 00:21:06.419 --> 00:21:08.270 And there's a Japanese problem, isn't there? 00:21:08.270 --> 00:21:10.860 There's three masks, one mask that you want to show everybody and 00:21:10.860 --> 00:21:12.090 everybody gets to see that mask. 00:21:12.120 --> 00:21:15.619 We wear it daily, you know, and how I want to be presented and perceived by 00:21:15.620 --> 00:21:18.699 the world, you know, and my colleagues and my peers and my loved ones. 00:21:18.699 --> 00:21:21.749 And then there's a mask that, you know, that's, that's the mask 00:21:21.749 --> 00:21:22.600 you want to show to everybody. 00:21:22.600 --> 00:21:23.580 And then when you go home. 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:26.700 You can remove that mask and you can kind of be yourself, you know, around the 00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:30.110 people that know you the most and your friends, your loved ones and your family. 00:21:30.110 --> 00:21:33.910 And, you know, that's probably a true reflection really of who you are, uh, but 00:21:33.910 --> 00:21:37.990 then the actual mask of who you are is the last mask and, and it isn't a mask. 00:21:37.990 --> 00:21:39.939 It's you, it's the person looking back in the mirror. 00:21:39.940 --> 00:21:42.799 It's the person, it's the person that you are when nobody's around, you 00:21:42.800 --> 00:21:46.600 know, when you're on your own, how you talk to yourself and daily, you know, 00:21:46.600 --> 00:21:49.440 and, and how you treat yourself and other people and what you think about 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:51.950 yourself and what you do when nobody's watching, you know, that's a real. 00:21:52.325 --> 00:21:54.035 Test of, of, of kind of who you are. 00:21:54.365 --> 00:21:57.785 Um, but, you know, sometimes it's, it's, it's ugly and sometimes it, 00:21:57.785 --> 00:21:59.135 it's, it's beautiful, you know? 00:21:59.135 --> 00:22:01.775 And, and that's the, the, the, uh, I guess the juxtaposition of, 00:22:01.775 --> 00:22:03.215 of, of life, isn't it, I guess. 00:22:03.215 --> 00:22:04.235 But would you train that mask? 00:22:05.705 --> 00:22:06.010 Would you train? 00:22:06.015 --> 00:22:06.905 No, I think I can. 00:22:06.995 --> 00:22:07.325 Yeah. 00:22:07.475 --> 00:22:07.805 Yeah. 00:22:07.805 --> 00:22:10.625 I think you can, but selection is designed in such a way that it 00:22:10.630 --> 00:22:11.915 will remove your masks, you know? 00:22:11.915 --> 00:22:13.170 And there's only so much training. 00:22:13.655 --> 00:22:17.535 You can do until ultimately that selection process will break you 00:22:17.535 --> 00:22:19.215 down physically and mentally. 00:22:19.215 --> 00:22:20.605 You are at your lowest. 00:22:20.785 --> 00:22:23.354 You know, it's the hardest I've ever pushed myself physically and mentally, 00:22:23.355 --> 00:22:27.624 and you can't be anyone but yourself and who you are, you know, and there's certain 00:22:27.624 --> 00:22:28.814 characteristics that they're looking for. 00:22:28.834 --> 00:22:32.115 How do you act like when you're under pressure, you know, and what 00:22:32.155 --> 00:22:34.965 type of person are you when the chips are really down, you know, 00:22:34.965 --> 00:22:35.905 and you're, you're at your lowest. 00:22:36.064 --> 00:22:37.834 Would you give your last mouthful of food? 00:22:38.010 --> 00:22:41.040 to your friend who needs it more than you, you know, and how do you 00:22:41.040 --> 00:22:45.449 communicate to people when you're so tired, you know, and frustrated, you 00:22:45.449 --> 00:22:48.550 know, because it makes a difference because selection is just selection, 00:22:48.760 --> 00:22:51.840 you know, and what I didn't realize until I did pass selection up until that 00:22:51.840 --> 00:22:53.694 point, it was the hardest thing I did. 00:22:53.694 --> 00:22:56.937 And then I went on tour with the squadrons and was like, Oh, wow. 00:22:56.937 --> 00:22:57.632 Now I understand. 00:22:57.632 --> 00:22:58.328 I get it. 00:22:58.328 --> 00:23:01.379 I understand why it's made in such a way and why they're looking for such. 00:23:01.855 --> 00:23:06.365 Um, unique characteristics within people, you know, and the jungle really does that. 00:23:06.365 --> 00:23:11.544 It really does for me, um, amplify how you feel, but in such a small environment 00:23:11.544 --> 00:23:14.754 and you have one directing staff with you 24 seven, you know, there's no hiding 00:23:15.545 --> 00:23:18.904 and, and also the people that do wear the masks, even in the trees that slip 00:23:18.905 --> 00:23:22.334 through, they get found out by other people around them as well, you know, and. 00:23:22.945 --> 00:23:25.995 Uh, and that gets exposed as well, and rightfully so, you know, you don't want 00:23:26.005 --> 00:23:28.965 anybody slipping the net, you know, and that's not to say people don't slip the 00:23:28.965 --> 00:23:32.164 net, some people do, you know, and not necessarily through any fault of their 00:23:32.164 --> 00:23:35.805 own, but because, you know, sometimes the system, they'll get through, but then 00:23:35.805 --> 00:23:38.884 that'll get exposed immediately within the squadrons, you know, and then you'll get 00:23:38.885 --> 00:23:40.784 RTU'd, you know, back to your unit, etc. 00:23:42.765 --> 00:23:46.425 So yeah, after the jungle phase, you know, if you're successful, you know, 00:23:46.425 --> 00:23:49.695 so you've got the hills, the physical, the mental, the navigation, the jungle 00:23:49.705 --> 00:23:53.484 is team, it's soldiering, you know, it's finest, you know, you can soldier in the 00:23:53.485 --> 00:23:54.995 jungle, you can fucking soldier anywhere. 00:23:55.495 --> 00:23:59.695 Um, and it's all, uh, around the TTPs and all that kind of stuff. 00:23:59.734 --> 00:24:02.045 Um, you know, again, very high pressure. 00:24:02.420 --> 00:24:07.180 Um, high risk sort of environment you leave that and then you're on 00:24:07.230 --> 00:24:09.840 escaping evasion, which probably for me was the biggest kick in the balls. 00:24:09.850 --> 00:24:13.530 Travis, I've heard that I wasn't prepared for that. 00:24:13.660 --> 00:24:14.460 It's the best kept secret. 00:24:14.979 --> 00:24:18.530 Um, and because your body as well by this stage of kind of 10 weeks 00:24:18.530 --> 00:24:22.380 in is just, you know, I lost 10, 15 kilograms of which I don't have to lose. 00:24:22.675 --> 00:24:24.485 You know, I'm already sort of 12 stone went through. 00:24:24.485 --> 00:24:29.655 So, um, you know, your body is just, it's just grinding down, uh, mentally 00:24:29.665 --> 00:24:32.905 and physically, it's very difficult to still maintain that high level. 00:24:33.245 --> 00:24:33.995 Of output. 00:24:34.344 --> 00:24:37.644 And then you go on the run for sort of five days low, either, you know, 00:24:37.705 --> 00:24:40.435 in the uk, um, and it's stinking. 00:24:40.435 --> 00:24:43.705 You know, you're, be you, you, you're moving through a corridor, um, and 00:24:43.709 --> 00:24:46.584 you are being chased by people that want nothing more than to catch you. 00:24:46.590 --> 00:24:50.185 It's Marines and Paris, you know, and little to no food. 00:24:50.334 --> 00:24:53.574 Um, four, five days straight, no little to no sleep. 00:24:54.460 --> 00:24:57.620 And eventually you get caught at the end, you know, and then you're into the 00:24:57.750 --> 00:25:01.680 resistance to interrogation phase, which is, you know, 36 hours of professional 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:04.300 interrogation, you know, with all the things that you have laid into 00:25:04.300 --> 00:25:07.969 that as well, which I won't go into too much detail about, but yeah, that 00:25:07.970 --> 00:25:11.640 was a, that was a fucking crazy time, you know, but for me, that was the. 00:25:11.930 --> 00:25:16.100 The, the, the, the hardest thing about that was physically, it was hard, but 00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:19.350 mentally, that was probably one of the most difficult things I did because 00:25:19.350 --> 00:25:22.820 you're, you are left to your own devices, your own thoughts, you know, 00:25:22.820 --> 00:25:24.370 in stress positions and everything else. 00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:25.899 And you're being interrogated, et cetera. 00:25:25.900 --> 00:25:28.009 And you're, you're so fucking tired. 00:25:28.030 --> 00:25:29.349 You know, I can't explain it. 00:25:29.650 --> 00:25:29.740 Did 00:25:29.740 --> 00:25:30.694 Travis Bader: you think about. 00:25:31.205 --> 00:25:33.555 Just throwing it in saying, ah, that's it for me. 00:25:33.555 --> 00:25:34.625 Or was that ever an option? 00:25:35.835 --> 00:25:37.105 Staz: No, no, I didn't. 00:25:37.155 --> 00:25:43.325 Um, and I think, I think you can't, if you hold on to any form of quit or reason, 00:25:43.605 --> 00:25:46.725 uh, and, and people pull themselves off for, that sounds weird, doesn't it? 00:25:46.804 --> 00:25:48.364 People pull themselves off. 00:25:48.364 --> 00:25:52.194 People remove themselves from the course for all sorts of. 00:25:52.825 --> 00:25:55.465 Weird and wonderful reasons and excuses, I call them. 00:25:55.565 --> 00:25:57.615 Uh, I didn't go on selection with an excuse. 00:25:57.665 --> 00:25:59.085 I didn't have anything waiting for me. 00:25:59.245 --> 00:26:02.175 For me, it was, well, if I don't do this, I'm gonna leave. 00:26:02.254 --> 00:26:04.785 You know, and for me, it was, it was all or nothing. 00:26:04.785 --> 00:26:05.685 There was no plan B. 00:26:06.035 --> 00:26:10.194 You know, I think if you have a plan B, you, you don't fucking, you don't, you 00:26:10.195 --> 00:26:12.574 won't, um, you won't execute on plan A. 00:26:12.715 --> 00:26:15.644 Uh, and a lot of people do well, I've got this, if I, you know, I could have done 00:26:15.644 --> 00:26:18.978 it, but I didn't want to, and this, and I've got this way in a home and my missus 00:26:18.978 --> 00:26:22.934 is this, and I've got an opportunity to go and do this and like, what the fuck 00:26:22.934 --> 00:26:28.684 for me, that's the wrong type of attitude to bring to a course like, um, so at the 00:26:28.684 --> 00:26:32.115 end of the escape and evasion, again, I'm now looking like an else, which 00:26:32.135 --> 00:26:35.014 victim I can, I've lost even more weight. 00:26:35.085 --> 00:26:37.925 Uh, less food, tired, uh, could sleep for days. 00:26:38.135 --> 00:26:41.275 You then go into the skills sort of phase in terms of the TDI, the 00:26:41.305 --> 00:26:46.044 weapons and respect SWAT basically, uh, element of selection, you know, 00:26:46.065 --> 00:26:49.265 Resi masks, explosions, abseiling, all that kind of good stuff. 00:26:50.425 --> 00:26:51.245 All the fun stuff. 00:26:51.275 --> 00:26:51.655 Yeah. 00:26:51.925 --> 00:26:55.505 But again, you know, the, the, the course and the standards are set, you 00:26:55.505 --> 00:26:58.445 know, and you've got to fucking shoot straight and move quick and take on 00:26:58.445 --> 00:27:01.294 information while when you're not down range, you're, you're being showed new 00:27:01.294 --> 00:27:04.965 kit and equipment and radios and com and you have to assimilate that information 00:27:04.975 --> 00:27:06.225 and put that into practice as well. 00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:10.950 And at the end of that, you're pretty much on the way there to being successfully, 00:27:11.010 --> 00:27:14.660 uh, badged, which I was, I went down the pool, uh, received my, uh, quite an 00:27:14.660 --> 00:27:20.029 unassuming, um, ceremony, you receive your belt and your beret, um, and then that's 00:27:20.030 --> 00:27:23.210 it, you're into, into the squadrons, I guess, and then I did my boat handling 00:27:23.210 --> 00:27:26.510 course, my, uh, swimmer canoeist course, uh, and all that kind of stuff, and 00:27:26.510 --> 00:27:29.930 then I was in, that was me then for 10 years, you know, in the special boat 00:27:29.930 --> 00:27:33.570 service, and I had, uh, you know, as you said earlier, uh, decorated and, 00:27:33.570 --> 00:27:39.305 and, Fabulous fucking career of which I'm extremely, extremely grateful for. 00:27:39.305 --> 00:27:44.395 I met some incredible people, you know, um, probably arguably one of the, uh, 00:27:44.425 --> 00:27:48.715 what it was at the time, the busiest operational time for the service, 00:27:48.744 --> 00:27:50.854 you know, it was overseas, it was. 00:27:50.870 --> 00:27:54.060 back to back deployments and, you know, and all of my deployments were 00:27:54.060 --> 00:27:57.800 different, you know, and I was very, very fortunate, you know, that said, 00:27:58.040 --> 00:28:00.659 and I use the word fortunate hopefully in the right context, you know, we lost 00:28:00.659 --> 00:28:05.290 guys and had some shitty times as well, but you know, what a, what a amazing, 00:28:05.360 --> 00:28:10.179 amazing career and life I've had up until that point and all the courses and 00:28:10.379 --> 00:28:13.229 it wasn't just war fighting, you know, we went away and did some fantastic 00:28:13.229 --> 00:28:15.040 core free fall courses in America. 00:28:15.565 --> 00:28:16.815 I was in mobility troops. 00:28:16.815 --> 00:28:20.075 I did lots of things with, you know, motocross and all the 00:28:20.075 --> 00:28:21.235 kind of cool stuff that you do. 00:28:21.315 --> 00:28:27.985 Uh, but it was, it was fucking rock star, you know, for me, for me, it was the best 00:28:27.985 --> 00:28:32.925 job in the world, you know, um, but it was the most selfish job in the world. 00:28:32.925 --> 00:28:34.644 You know, it took its toll on my first marriage. 00:28:35.480 --> 00:28:40.960 Um, you know, so at the end of kind of 2000 and sort of 16, 17, 00:28:40.970 --> 00:28:43.629 you know, as a sergeant, I was kind of moving through the ranks. 00:28:43.629 --> 00:28:46.439 I'd done all this cool stuff, all the operations, and then 00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:48.570 I moved into a training role. 00:28:48.570 --> 00:28:51.580 I was the chief sniper instructor for the unit that included everything from 00:28:51.589 --> 00:28:55.770 sort of pistol to CQC and everything long range as well, as you'd expect. 00:28:55.790 --> 00:28:58.890 Um, and then I moved back into one of the squadrons as one 00:28:58.890 --> 00:29:01.050 of the operations seniors. 00:29:01.249 --> 00:29:05.189 Um, but I'd kind of looking back now, I guess. 00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:08.690 I went on all the command courses and bits and pieces and the wind was just 00:29:08.730 --> 00:29:10.730 kind of not being favorable anymore. 00:29:10.730 --> 00:29:14.070 It was out of my sails and I just thought, fuck it, I need to change it. 00:29:14.070 --> 00:29:16.989 I've, I want to end on a high, you know, I want. 00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:19.270 Change course and direction. 00:29:19.270 --> 00:29:22.230 I've spent the best part of 13 years in the military, you know, the most 00:29:22.230 --> 00:29:23.970 defining sort of years of my life. 00:29:24.530 --> 00:29:27.959 I feel like and felt like I'd given enough, you know, I'd sacrificed enough. 00:29:28.050 --> 00:29:31.680 Um, but, you know, selfishly, I've learned so much as well, which I 00:29:31.710 --> 00:29:33.400 thought I could apply externally. 00:29:33.420 --> 00:29:36.480 To the military, so around about this time. 00:29:36.540 --> 00:29:40.530 Um, the other, the co the co-founder of Thda, Louis Tinsley, 00:29:40.530 --> 00:29:41.820 a very, very good friend of mine. 00:29:41.820 --> 00:29:44.490 We'd been friends since we were in the Marines back in 2006. 00:29:44.490 --> 00:29:45.960 He was leaving the, the service. 00:29:45.965 --> 00:29:47.160 He was also in the SBS. 00:29:47.820 --> 00:29:51.780 Um, we served together, but albeit we were in different squadrons, but 00:29:51.780 --> 00:29:55.740 always remained very tight, very close, uh, he was being medically discharged 00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:57.000 from the service, from injury. 00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:59.820 Like most, most of the guys are, we're all carrying, uh. 00:30:00.275 --> 00:30:04.855 Uh, bad injuries, um, and we sort of started talking about what, 00:30:05.025 --> 00:30:07.795 what it could look like on the outside and what the options were. 00:30:07.855 --> 00:30:11.245 And look, you know, most people with our skill sets, you know, you're, 00:30:11.245 --> 00:30:17.105 you're, you're looking at security, very well paid, very well paid, uh, 00:30:17.225 --> 00:30:19.845 yeah, uh, close protection jobs, et cetera, which a lot of my friends 00:30:19.845 --> 00:30:21.555 did out in Dubai and other places. 00:30:21.555 --> 00:30:24.505 And we did a bit of that as we were leaving the service and transitioning 00:30:24.905 --> 00:30:26.735 into ThruDark and ThruDark was born. 00:30:26.755 --> 00:30:28.974 The idea was born whilst we were still serving. 00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:32.520 Um, you know, we, we, we, we just cherry pick some great jobs. 00:30:32.520 --> 00:30:36.700 We were working the Superbowls and working for the NBA and UK and America. 00:30:36.700 --> 00:30:40.080 And with a couple of cool dudes, Street and Sonny that we knew from 00:30:40.080 --> 00:30:42.890 America, you know, they, they, you know, looked after us with those jobs. 00:30:42.890 --> 00:30:46.159 But, you know, we also, we were all chips in physically, mentally, everything. 00:30:46.280 --> 00:30:47.454 We put our own savings. 00:30:48.465 --> 00:30:51.755 And we, um, aligned with a very good personal friend of ours, 00:30:51.765 --> 00:30:54.845 Steve Clark, who's the founding investor of through dark. 00:30:54.875 --> 00:30:57.895 Um, he's been here from the start with us and he sort of backed us 00:30:57.895 --> 00:31:00.435 from the very beginning and believed in our idea and our passion. 00:31:01.135 --> 00:31:05.135 Um, so yeah, I mean, like most fucking good plans are formulated, it all 00:31:05.135 --> 00:31:07.385 starts over 10 beers in the local pub. 00:31:08.135 --> 00:31:11.985 Ian, Louis and Steve and he knew we were leaving and sort of started picking our 00:31:11.985 --> 00:31:14.955 brains a little bit like what are you guys doing when you're leaving I just assumed 00:31:14.955 --> 00:31:17.275 you're going into security and I know you've been doing a little bit of that 00:31:17.275 --> 00:31:19.505 but what is your actual, what's the plan? 00:31:20.124 --> 00:31:23.445 So we spoke to him about ThruDark you know and um, and what that could look 00:31:23.454 --> 00:31:28.105 like and I guess Fucking hell, looking back, you need a lot of naivety, don't 00:31:28.105 --> 00:31:29.575 you, for like your whole life, I guess. 00:31:29.815 --> 00:31:30.115 For sure. 00:31:31.345 --> 00:31:35.225 And, you know, we, we sort of, we'd used some of the world's best kit 00:31:35.225 --> 00:31:38.255 and equipment, you know, in special forces from weapons and optics and 00:31:38.255 --> 00:31:41.365 clothing, you know, some of the big brands, which I know we all know about. 00:31:41.414 --> 00:31:44.530 And, but we'd still thought that, You know, naively, well, 00:31:44.530 --> 00:31:45.420 why haven't they done this? 00:31:45.420 --> 00:31:46.570 And why does it look like that? 00:31:46.820 --> 00:31:48.070 It's not fit for purpose for this. 00:31:48.070 --> 00:31:50.050 And I think we can tweak that and make it better. 00:31:50.050 --> 00:31:52.229 And you know, how hard can it be almost? 00:31:52.580 --> 00:31:57.119 Um, so off we went and we left and we set up, you know, we had a small sort of 00:31:57.120 --> 00:32:01.340 founding investment between myself, Louie and Steve, and off we, off we popped, 00:32:01.340 --> 00:32:05.279 you know, we were in a small office, a corner office that Steve gave to us. 00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:06.374 Uh, and. 00:32:06.475 --> 00:32:09.405 We were off to the races, you know, and we had a few products to start with. 00:32:09.405 --> 00:32:12.905 And over the six, seven years now that through dark has been going to where we 00:32:12.905 --> 00:32:15.945 are now looking back and it, look, it's not too dissimilar to any startup story. 00:32:15.955 --> 00:32:16.255 Is it? 00:32:16.255 --> 00:32:19.205 You know, it all starts in a pretty incredible room. 00:32:19.315 --> 00:32:23.345 Yeah, but it's, you know, it's, we had an idea, we had a vision, we had a goal. 00:32:23.875 --> 00:32:27.615 And some of, well, a lot of the, um, things that we learned within the 00:32:27.615 --> 00:32:31.045 military are transferable, you know, everything, basic things like the 00:32:31.045 --> 00:32:34.635 whiteboard, you know, long term borrowed from work in my front room through dark. 00:32:34.635 --> 00:32:36.935 And we still got, I've got an image of that on my phone and 00:32:36.935 --> 00:32:39.305 it's not too dissimilar to what we've actually executed on. 00:32:39.925 --> 00:32:42.005 Um, but look, me, it's, it's about. 00:32:43.105 --> 00:32:46.685 Fucking hell, looking back now, is business harder than special forces? 00:32:46.805 --> 00:32:49.795 Fucking absolutely is, you know, uh, for different reasons, 00:32:49.835 --> 00:32:52.005 you know, and it's difficult. 00:32:52.035 --> 00:32:56.414 There's a lot of pressure, you know, and for me, my situation is slightly 00:32:56.415 --> 00:32:59.874 different to Louis, but you know, I've got three boys, three amazing kids, you 00:32:59.874 --> 00:33:03.054 know, I've got a wife and everything else to support and it's difficult. 00:33:03.084 --> 00:33:05.985 You know, I left 33 years old. 00:33:06.840 --> 00:33:09.980 And I think for me, I just reframed it differently in my mind. 00:33:09.980 --> 00:33:13.310 I thought, look, through that, let's, let's, this is now the new North star. 00:33:13.310 --> 00:33:15.700 And this is what we're going to move towards, you know, with the passion 00:33:15.710 --> 00:33:17.869 and the purpose and the energy, the enthusiasm, everything that we've 00:33:17.869 --> 00:33:20.890 done throughout our times in our lives up to this point, you know, 00:33:20.890 --> 00:33:23.230 we will make it a success, you know, and we'll just keep pushing. 00:33:23.689 --> 00:33:27.130 But that said, I guess my worst case was always that I could 00:33:27.130 --> 00:33:28.800 fall back into the service. 00:33:28.800 --> 00:33:31.070 You know, I could always go back with my tail between my legs over to the. 00:33:31.295 --> 00:33:32.615 the SPS and say, look, it's not worked. 00:33:32.965 --> 00:33:34.291 Can I go back? 00:33:34.291 --> 00:33:36.465 And, and we're quite guilty of that. 00:33:36.465 --> 00:33:40.884 Sometimes as people, we forget to sort of stop sometimes and say like, actually 00:33:40.884 --> 00:33:45.154 where I am right now and what I have is what I wanted and nothing more than five 00:33:45.355 --> 00:33:48.485 years, you know, and that's important. 00:33:48.605 --> 00:33:50.995 Um, so I thought I could always go back and do that, or I 00:33:50.995 --> 00:33:51.935 could go and work security. 00:33:51.935 --> 00:33:52.114 That's fine. 00:33:52.115 --> 00:33:52.545 fine. 00:33:53.065 --> 00:33:57.555 Um, but ultimately me and Louis were just so focused on, on, on the brand and 00:33:57.555 --> 00:34:03.714 through dark and what we wanted it to be and how we wanted to, to, um, one first 00:34:03.715 --> 00:34:07.025 and foremost revolve around products, you know, the product being perfect, 00:34:07.085 --> 00:34:09.194 um, or as close to perfect as possible. 00:34:09.194 --> 00:34:11.935 You know, it was high performance, technical outdoor clothing. 00:34:11.944 --> 00:34:14.053 We design, develop and test everything ourselves. 00:34:14.053 --> 00:34:15.161 So it's, it's authentic. 00:34:15.161 --> 00:34:15.714 It's credible. 00:34:15.714 --> 00:34:17.099 We have a cool story. 00:34:17.099 --> 00:34:18.484 Uh, and it's us too. 00:34:18.485 --> 00:34:19.195 It's founder led. 00:34:19.305 --> 00:34:22.305 You know, and, um, for the most part, people can see 00:34:22.305 --> 00:34:23.445 that and don't get me wrong. 00:34:23.445 --> 00:34:26.355 We've been very fortunate with our network and people that we know, you 00:34:26.355 --> 00:34:29.415 know, we have a lot of friends and ambassadors, you know, and people 00:34:29.415 --> 00:34:32.395 that have helped us out along the way and really given us a leg up. 00:34:32.415 --> 00:34:35.414 You know, if we look back at our inception video and the people that we lent into 00:34:35.414 --> 00:34:39.085 for that, it's been incredible, you know, and other people across social media and 00:34:39.085 --> 00:34:42.575 the platforms that they've, you know, that they've grown and had themselves. 00:34:42.585 --> 00:34:43.925 So, but it's all new. 00:34:43.935 --> 00:34:45.785 Everything's a learning sort of phase, isn't it? 00:34:45.890 --> 00:34:46.430 For us. 00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:49.410 And it's been incredible, but right now, as I'm sort of sitting here now, 00:34:49.410 --> 00:34:52.660 it's kind of six years in and the company's going from strength to strength 00:34:52.680 --> 00:34:57.020 year on year, it's been doubling, you know, we are sort of 35 to 39. 00:34:57.320 --> 00:35:00.040 Soon to be 39 full time staff, you know, that doesn't include 00:35:00.050 --> 00:35:03.430 the agency support and bits and pieces and you know, and it's, it's 00:35:03.430 --> 00:35:06.090 still feels incredibly close knit. 00:35:06.240 --> 00:35:09.230 You know, there's a lot of values and ethos that we brought across 00:35:09.230 --> 00:35:14.250 that hopefully has been applied and runs through the core of the company. 00:35:14.380 --> 00:35:18.194 You know, um, we've just moved premises again into a new space and. 00:35:18.365 --> 00:35:20.025 As you can imagine, it's all being painted black. 00:35:20.055 --> 00:35:20.915 The paint is dry. 00:35:22.255 --> 00:35:22.605 Yeah. 00:35:23.155 --> 00:35:27.995 And look, we've got ideas for all sorts of weird and wonderful and cool 00:35:27.995 --> 00:35:31.945 things in terms of product really, but we're fortunate that we've kind 00:35:31.945 --> 00:35:36.025 of built the teams around like we did in the military and, and, um, 00:35:36.694 --> 00:35:38.085 the success of the businesses. 00:35:38.305 --> 00:35:42.965 It's absolutely, fundamentally associated to those people that we currently 00:35:42.975 --> 00:35:44.345 have right now in the business. 00:35:44.345 --> 00:35:46.864 You know, it's, there's only so far you want to go fast, go alone. 00:35:46.864 --> 00:35:48.574 You want to go far, you know, go together. 00:35:48.574 --> 00:35:51.505 And I know that's cliched, but you know, you've got to be very careful 00:35:51.525 --> 00:35:57.675 and very, um, uh, cognizant of who you allow into your circle and your business 00:35:57.675 --> 00:35:59.184 and your table, because that's super, 00:35:59.194 --> 00:35:59.984 Travis Bader: super important. 00:36:00.094 --> 00:36:02.044 Who do you allow into your circle business and table? 00:36:03.470 --> 00:36:04.100 Staz: Well, it's different. 00:36:04.100 --> 00:36:06.580 So if it's, if it's personal circles, then that, that's 00:36:06.580 --> 00:36:07.950 sort of, that's very different. 00:36:07.990 --> 00:36:12.220 And that's, that's built up through trust, you know, uh, and years, I guess, 00:36:12.220 --> 00:36:13.550 and, and, and it has to be earned. 00:36:14.169 --> 00:36:17.459 Um, if it's, you know, cause I'm quite a loyal person, if I'm 00:36:17.490 --> 00:36:19.650 friends with somebody, that's it, we're, you know, we're locked in. 00:36:19.720 --> 00:36:23.380 But I think the business perspective is different, you know, you still have 00:36:23.380 --> 00:36:27.380 to lean into that, that, that respect and, and, and earning the respect. 00:36:27.420 --> 00:36:32.849 But as the business grows now, you know, I think special forces for me is. 00:36:32.920 --> 00:36:38.410 It's a different environment in so much that everybody is there not for self, 00:36:38.470 --> 00:36:43.170 they're there for a unified mission and a unified goal, you know, so you never 00:36:43.170 --> 00:36:46.190 have to question that, you never have to question why I'm about to run off the 00:36:46.190 --> 00:36:50.865 back of a helicopter into a hail of, you know, you know, Um, bullets because I know 00:36:50.865 --> 00:36:53.495 the person to my left and my right has got my back, you know, I can trust them. 00:36:53.495 --> 00:36:54.545 They've been through that process. 00:36:54.545 --> 00:36:56.585 They've been through a selection process, but more importantly, we're 00:36:56.585 --> 00:37:00.635 all there for the same reason, you know, that same mission and goal, difficult, 00:37:00.645 --> 00:37:02.245 different in business to do that. 00:37:02.344 --> 00:37:04.875 You know, you have to get people to get bought into what you're 00:37:04.875 --> 00:37:05.964 doing and why you're doing it. 00:37:05.964 --> 00:37:08.354 You have to have different levels and layers. 00:37:08.515 --> 00:37:12.275 Associated to what and why they're doing it, you know, and, uh, and that's 00:37:12.275 --> 00:37:16.035 difficult sometimes to get buy in and for the most part, we've kept the majority 00:37:16.035 --> 00:37:20.135 of the team, but some people have to fall off, you know, and for different reasons. 00:37:20.135 --> 00:37:24.594 And I think when you start the business, it's like a, you know, uh, uh, year 00:37:24.595 --> 00:37:26.904 one, it's a very small sort of wave. 00:37:26.904 --> 00:37:29.514 You stood on the beach for probably a shit analogy, but there's a little 00:37:29.514 --> 00:37:32.234 wave and you're, everybody's just on their little boogie boards and 00:37:32.234 --> 00:37:33.444 we're all having a bit of fun. 00:37:33.760 --> 00:37:35.710 And then year two, the waves getting a bit bigger and you're 00:37:35.710 --> 00:37:37.420 still boogie boarding year three. 00:37:37.420 --> 00:37:40.720 It's now a fucking wave and you're on a surfboard and, you know, and 00:37:40.720 --> 00:37:43.480 you're looking at left and right, who's still here and who can actually 00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:44.510 surf, you know, who can swim. 00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:48.270 Some people can't, some people fall off the wave, you know, uh, 00:37:48.299 --> 00:37:49.970 it's the same in, in on selection. 00:37:49.970 --> 00:37:51.319 It's the same in business as well. 00:37:51.569 --> 00:37:54.780 And sometimes ultimately it's not a fault of anyone's, you know, it's 00:37:54.780 --> 00:37:58.580 just the size of the fucking wave, you know, and what you're asking people to 00:37:58.580 --> 00:38:01.630 do and you need different people with different skill sets at different. 00:38:01.780 --> 00:38:03.970 various points throughout the business life. 00:38:04.020 --> 00:38:08.010 Um, so now, you know, it's year six, year seven, the waves are getting 00:38:08.010 --> 00:38:10.600 fucking bigger and we can see the other sets coming down as well. 00:38:10.600 --> 00:38:11.820 And they're going to be even bigger. 00:38:11.869 --> 00:38:15.239 So, you know, strap in and enjoy the fucking ride. 00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:17.860 But in terms of characteristics for people, it's really different. 00:38:17.909 --> 00:38:20.129 Now there's people right now in the business that we brought in that 00:38:20.129 --> 00:38:24.550 are specialists and that on paper, I thought, God, this guy's just. 00:38:25.285 --> 00:38:29.335 It's just so different to me, you know, it's such a, you know, a geek or just, 00:38:29.635 --> 00:38:32.185 God, I just could never see myself going for a beer with this person. 00:38:32.185 --> 00:38:34.585 I judge most things like, can I go for a beer with this person? 00:38:34.595 --> 00:38:34.905 No. 00:38:34.905 --> 00:38:38.204 And, but actually I've been wrong as well in this world. 00:38:39.045 --> 00:38:40.455 Travis Bader: You don't want everyone to be like you. 00:38:41.085 --> 00:38:42.065 Staz: Exactly. 00:38:42.065 --> 00:38:42.945 Yeah, exactly. 00:38:42.945 --> 00:38:44.455 You want that diversity of opinion. 00:38:44.495 --> 00:38:47.225 You want people to challenge you, you know, and you need dreamers. 00:38:47.235 --> 00:38:47.884 You need doers. 00:38:47.884 --> 00:38:49.704 You need a mixture of all sorts, don't you? 00:38:49.825 --> 00:38:52.665 And I think that's what makes, makes it beautiful, you know, because 00:38:53.355 --> 00:38:54.534 you're in an echo chamber, aren't you? 00:38:54.555 --> 00:38:57.734 In the military and special forces, you know, we're all the very, my 00:38:57.734 --> 00:38:59.145 missus used to laugh, my wife. 00:38:59.195 --> 00:39:02.075 She's like, she can spot us a mile off, you know, local town. 00:39:02.075 --> 00:39:03.225 And she's like, he's from the. 00:39:03.600 --> 00:39:06.200 Well, that guy's for, you know, cause you just carry yourself a certain way. 00:39:06.200 --> 00:39:08.850 You communicate a certain way and for probably quite 00:39:08.850 --> 00:39:10.090 some of the old guys as well. 00:39:10.090 --> 00:39:13.220 And I think business is different, you know, and it depends. 00:39:13.220 --> 00:39:17.049 You've got e com teams, you've got product teams, you know, you've got customer 00:39:17.069 --> 00:39:21.440 support teams, you've got directors, you've got leadership team members, you've 00:39:21.450 --> 00:39:25.570 got people that specialize in copy and social media that are very different to. 00:39:25.950 --> 00:39:27.870 But, you know, I think that's what makes it great. 00:39:27.910 --> 00:39:29.820 Um, and interesting as well. 00:39:29.830 --> 00:39:32.630 And that's mine and Louis job really, as co founders, to make sure that we 00:39:32.630 --> 00:39:35.800 are bringing the right people in and that they're, they're managed correctly. 00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:38.690 But also they give them the opportunity to, to shine, 00:39:38.870 --> 00:39:40.930 uh, and also to fail as well. 00:39:40.940 --> 00:39:41.769 So that's a big part of it. 00:39:41.770 --> 00:39:42.260 You need that. 00:39:42.290 --> 00:39:43.580 Don't micromanage people. 00:39:43.630 --> 00:39:46.100 I'm, I'm, I'm not a micromanager. 00:39:46.100 --> 00:39:48.680 I'm all for people coming in and dropping the ball and then 00:39:48.680 --> 00:39:49.570 saying, Hey, what happened? 00:39:49.610 --> 00:39:50.090 That's fine. 00:39:50.140 --> 00:39:52.730 I fucking hell, I dropped the, I dropped the ball daily, Travis. 00:39:52.730 --> 00:39:53.119 You know what I mean? 00:39:53.340 --> 00:39:53.910 We all do. 00:39:54.340 --> 00:39:54.400 That 00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:56.140 Travis Bader: means you're trying, it means you're pushing, right? 00:39:56.140 --> 00:39:58.129 You're, you're going beyond your boundaries. 00:39:58.129 --> 00:40:02.050 If it's the same mistake over and over, I tell my people, we'll have a conversation. 00:40:02.050 --> 00:40:05.530 We'll see what it is and why it is, but by all means, fail. 00:40:05.965 --> 00:40:06.315 Right. 00:40:06.515 --> 00:40:08.995 Staz: It's the only difference I've seen though, that I have recognized from the 00:40:09.005 --> 00:40:12.475 military and the civilian world is that fuck those debriefs that we used to 00:40:12.475 --> 00:40:14.434 have in the special forces are brutal. 00:40:14.455 --> 00:40:19.954 You know, it's a, after a very quick hot debriefs, it's like, no stone is 00:40:19.965 --> 00:40:21.504 left unturned for obvious reasons. 00:40:21.525 --> 00:40:24.865 But you know, the communication is sometimes it's transactional, but for 00:40:24.865 --> 00:40:25.975 the most part it's big board rules. 00:40:25.975 --> 00:40:27.335 It's transformational conversation. 00:40:27.335 --> 00:40:30.585 But, and that happens in business, but you just have to manage that differently. 00:40:30.585 --> 00:40:31.935 You can't speak to people. 00:40:32.375 --> 00:40:33.665 Like you used to speak to people in the 00:40:34.535 --> 00:40:34.865 Travis Bader: military. 00:40:36.185 --> 00:40:39.515 Staz: I'll be getting, I'll be getting pulled into HR, but, um, no, for the most 00:40:39.515 --> 00:40:41.074 part, people understand and they get it. 00:40:41.125 --> 00:40:44.454 Um, and so there's, there's been a lot of learnings for me as well, 00:40:44.525 --> 00:40:47.484 personally and professionally, and I've really, really enjoyed it. 00:40:47.875 --> 00:40:48.085 You know, 00:40:48.085 --> 00:40:51.125 Travis Bader: people say it's not personal, it's just business. 00:40:51.544 --> 00:40:52.055 I don't know. 00:40:52.074 --> 00:40:54.985 I've always been of the mindset that business is personal business. 00:40:55.230 --> 00:40:56.850 Is built on relationships. 00:40:56.850 --> 00:41:00.690 These relationships take time to establish, which require trust. 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:01.750 It's all personal. 00:41:02.090 --> 00:41:04.180 And anyone who would say, oh, this is just business. 00:41:05.420 --> 00:41:05.810 I don't know. 00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:07.260 I have a hard time seeing that. 00:41:07.910 --> 00:41:08.110 I 00:41:08.110 --> 00:41:08.720 Staz: agree with that. 00:41:08.970 --> 00:41:12.659 And I call it, it's slightly, the term I use is science and art. 00:41:13.070 --> 00:41:16.560 You know, and you can put as much science as you want into a business 00:41:16.560 --> 00:41:19.970 and that, that, that could be a communication platforms or your 00:41:19.970 --> 00:41:24.480 slacks and processes and systems and meetings and all this kind of stuff. 00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:28.909 And, and there are absolute fundamental, uh, positive net positives to be 00:41:28.919 --> 00:41:33.150 had by implementing, um, uh, systems and you have to, and they have to be 00:41:33.150 --> 00:41:35.120 managed correctly by the, by the geeks. 00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:40.100 Um, and that's the science element, but if you, if you lose the art and the people. 00:41:40.465 --> 00:41:44.905 Then very quickly, you'll lose the soul, the substance of the company and why you 00:41:44.905 --> 00:41:48.595 started, you know, it's founder led first and foremost, and it's inspirational, 00:41:48.595 --> 00:41:52.095 you know, inspire, ignite and inform the three things I try and do every 00:41:52.095 --> 00:41:55.915 day in the business when I'm with my people is inspire, you know, ignite 00:41:55.965 --> 00:41:59.815 and inform people that's communication, but it's also leading from the front 00:41:59.865 --> 00:42:01.615 and you can't do that on a spreadsheet. 00:42:01.645 --> 00:42:04.605 You know, you can't do that on a Slack communication channel, you 00:42:04.605 --> 00:42:07.755 know, there's only so far that that science can take you, you know, and, 00:42:08.175 --> 00:42:11.595 and, and it's a fine balancing act, isn't it to be had, but that's where, 00:42:11.625 --> 00:42:12.984 where in lies the beauty, I guess. 00:42:13.395 --> 00:42:13.734 I used 00:42:13.734 --> 00:42:16.625 Travis Bader: to spend a lot of time, like, how do I hire the perfect person? 00:42:16.625 --> 00:42:19.335 How do I go through and just find all these perfect attributes 00:42:19.594 --> 00:42:22.474 only to find that I was wasting so much time on the front end. 00:42:22.805 --> 00:42:24.985 When I should get really good at firing, right? 00:42:24.995 --> 00:42:28.745 Like, and when I say good at firing, I mean, in a way that's going to be 00:42:28.745 --> 00:42:31.685 helpful for the person who's working with us, if, if they're not the 00:42:31.685 --> 00:42:36.015 right fit, I can find them work at a friend's company or some other place. 00:42:36.015 --> 00:42:39.345 And you know, no hard feelings just didn't work out here. 00:42:39.945 --> 00:42:42.445 Um, get good at firing, not good at hiring. 00:42:42.525 --> 00:42:47.025 I got to imagine coming from a, uh, SF background, that's probably 00:42:47.045 --> 00:42:48.495 something that gets ingrained in you. 00:42:48.895 --> 00:42:52.825 I mean, you can probably spot people a mile away going through selection. 00:42:52.825 --> 00:42:55.395 Now he just say, yeah, they're not going to make it. 00:42:55.485 --> 00:42:57.755 I can see right now they don't have those attributes. 00:42:57.785 --> 00:42:59.325 Can you do the same in 00:42:59.325 --> 00:42:59.845 Staz: business? 00:43:00.765 --> 00:43:01.375 Yeah. 00:43:01.385 --> 00:43:05.404 Um, but I could sort of touch on it slightly a little bit before where there 00:43:05.405 --> 00:43:09.715 is instances where I've been wrong, that's when you lean into team, you know, because 00:43:09.725 --> 00:43:12.935 sometimes you think, am I not seeing something and that's why you have the. 00:43:13.495 --> 00:43:17.235 The directing staff on Selection, you get changed around between which DS you have. 00:43:17.235 --> 00:43:19.955 So you get another opinion, another set of eyeballs on you. 00:43:20.155 --> 00:43:24.865 And then you have prayers at the end of the process and say, Okay, Travis is up. 00:43:24.895 --> 00:43:27.025 Okay, Travis, yeah, tell me your thoughts on Travis. 00:43:27.025 --> 00:43:28.529 And it goes round the room. 00:43:29.120 --> 00:43:32.340 And the idea is that you shouldn't be, um, your decision shouldn't 00:43:32.340 --> 00:43:33.550 be swayed by other people. 00:43:33.560 --> 00:43:34.700 It's not confirmation bias. 00:43:34.700 --> 00:43:37.050 It should be, no, no, no, this is my honest appraisal 00:43:37.050 --> 00:43:38.210 of Travis and what I've seen. 00:43:38.260 --> 00:43:40.520 You know, I've seen him do this good, seen him do that bad. 00:43:40.710 --> 00:43:43.340 He communicates like this, he acts like that, you know, and 00:43:43.340 --> 00:43:44.800 he does this and that, you know. 00:43:45.089 --> 00:43:46.370 And that's, that's all I've seen. 00:43:46.470 --> 00:43:49.290 Like, I, I, I don't know what you've seen or what you've heard, but 00:43:49.600 --> 00:43:51.380 that's my account of what I've seen. 00:43:51.380 --> 00:43:55.465 And that should then Inform, uh, the, the larger, more true narrative, I 00:43:55.475 --> 00:43:58.395 guess, but there are instances of where that your face just doesn't 00:43:58.395 --> 00:44:00.655 fit, but that that's easier. 00:44:00.705 --> 00:44:02.535 That's not just a, we don't like you. 00:44:02.535 --> 00:44:07.064 And, but ultimately you have to be liked, you know, you're going to be asked to work 00:44:07.064 --> 00:44:10.445 in small teams, you know, and you could be the best fucking soldier in the world. 00:44:10.465 --> 00:44:13.645 You could be the best accountant in the world, you know, in a business setting. 00:44:14.735 --> 00:44:16.205 You don't work well with others. 00:44:16.745 --> 00:44:17.215 That's it. 00:44:17.215 --> 00:44:17.975 You're fucking out. 00:44:18.685 --> 00:44:20.625 And I think that's what experience gets you. 00:44:20.635 --> 00:44:21.635 Look, I'm not saying experience. 00:44:21.635 --> 00:44:22.365 I've just turned 40. 00:44:22.365 --> 00:44:23.664 I'm still wet behind the ears, Travis. 00:44:23.665 --> 00:44:24.465 I've got a lot to learn. 00:44:24.485 --> 00:44:28.725 But in my short time on this planet, you know, that's, that's what experience 00:44:28.725 --> 00:44:32.464 and exposure to different scenarios and people and environments gets you. 00:44:32.565 --> 00:44:34.845 You know, and that's what I'm grateful for, for Selection. 00:44:34.845 --> 00:44:39.595 It, you know, it does allow myself and Louis to Um, have very direct 00:44:39.635 --> 00:44:43.005 conversations, but you know, we're, we're honest and open as well. 00:44:43.015 --> 00:44:46.345 You know, we try not to let that steer our decision making process in terms of 00:44:46.345 --> 00:44:49.494 how we feel towards somebody because, but it's difficult, you know, like I 00:44:49.494 --> 00:44:52.165 said earlier, you, you can be the best accountant in the world, but if everybody 00:44:52.165 --> 00:44:53.524 fucking hates you, then I'm sorry. 00:44:53.585 --> 00:44:55.505 You know, you hire slow, fire fast. 00:44:56.324 --> 00:44:58.584 It's that, it's that moment of that hiring process has to be. 00:44:59.530 --> 00:45:04.030 Delivered in such a way that it's slow, it's slow and they get introduced to 00:45:04.040 --> 00:45:08.020 different touch points of the business, you know, so I'll have the first 00:45:08.020 --> 00:45:11.840 interview, it might be just myself and Louis and maybe one of the directors. 00:45:11.900 --> 00:45:13.700 We'll get a feel for the person, their skills. 00:45:14.010 --> 00:45:15.949 And after that one, very quickly we'll say. 00:45:16.395 --> 00:45:19.415 This person's not gonna fit or okay, there's something there. 00:45:19.705 --> 00:45:23.425 Let's give them another shot An interview and now we'll bring the specialist in 00:45:23.425 --> 00:45:26.645 so the person's coming in for an ecom role What the fuck do I know about 00:45:26.815 --> 00:45:32.394 sure back end ecom, you know Specific technological kind of questions, so I'll 00:45:32.394 --> 00:45:35.700 get a specialist in and I'll get them to grill him But I'm watching how he 00:45:35.700 --> 00:45:39.880 just reacts to the questions, you know, uh, not so much about the information 00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:43.320 because the information, it is what it is, it's science, it's black and white. 00:45:43.330 --> 00:45:45.652 If the guy doesn't know what he's talking about, the girl doesn't know 00:45:45.652 --> 00:45:48.297 what they're talking about, that'll get sniffed out straight away by 00:45:48.297 --> 00:45:49.740 our, our digital director, you know. 00:45:49.740 --> 00:45:52.866 Um, but for us, it's more about the person, the fit, the culture, 00:45:52.866 --> 00:45:54.549 are you going to fit in here? 00:45:54.549 --> 00:45:58.730 And we've got all shapes and sizes and manner of people here at ThruDoc, 00:45:59.370 --> 00:46:04.010 and, but they each bring Really unique skills, which, you know, are fantastic. 00:46:04.040 --> 00:46:07.450 And sometimes it's hard because you just need to hire somebody and you're like, 00:46:07.650 --> 00:46:09.440 fuck, we've got a big, there's a big hole. 00:46:09.690 --> 00:46:13.770 There's a ship, there's a hole in the ship that needs fucking plug in quickly. 00:46:13.850 --> 00:46:16.770 And it doesn't necessarily have to be the perfect fit. 00:46:16.840 --> 00:46:19.063 It just has to be plugged until you can find the perfect fit. 00:46:19.063 --> 00:46:23.290 And that happens, you know, and, uh, that has happened and does happen sometimes. 00:46:24.025 --> 00:46:26.685 Well, as long as everybody's aware of that and what we're doing, and it's, 00:46:26.705 --> 00:46:31.055 and it's communicated, um, honestly, uh, with integrity, then that's fine. 00:46:31.355 --> 00:46:31.615 So you 00:46:31.615 --> 00:46:35.164 Travis Bader: talk about this fire in your belly and you attribute at least some of 00:46:35.165 --> 00:46:38.144 it to certain events in your upbringing. 00:46:38.195 --> 00:46:40.725 Now you've got a brother, Andrew, a couple of years older. 00:46:41.324 --> 00:46:46.635 Did those, those events that happened to you, some of them happened to him too. 00:46:46.635 --> 00:46:48.405 Did they manifest in a similar way? 00:46:48.755 --> 00:46:52.785 This is just out of straight curiosity of, you know, nurture nature sort of thing. 00:46:54.030 --> 00:46:56.370 Staz: Yeah, I'm not sure with the, I think there's, there's 00:46:56.370 --> 00:46:57.270 a bit of both, isn't there? 00:46:57.280 --> 00:47:00.710 Nature, nurture, and you are a product of your environment. 00:47:00.900 --> 00:47:01.470 Absolutely. 00:47:01.470 --> 00:47:05.250 I believe that, you know, and as kids as well, I think, uh, you know, I've 00:47:05.250 --> 00:47:09.430 got boys now and I'm quite cognizant of this and I'm always, you know, trying to 00:47:09.430 --> 00:47:13.560 develop myself and be the best version of myself for my kids, but always within 00:47:13.560 --> 00:47:16.130 the, I read the, uh, is it Ryan holiday? 00:47:16.130 --> 00:47:17.530 The daily dad, have you got that? 00:47:17.560 --> 00:47:18.410 It's yeah, I see that. 00:47:19.655 --> 00:47:22.585 I've got the daily dad, which is every day is just a small one. 00:47:22.585 --> 00:47:26.675 I love that, but it just keeps you, it keeps you aware of what you should 00:47:26.675 --> 00:47:29.645 be doing and where you should be striving for in terms of your kids. 00:47:29.645 --> 00:47:32.905 They're great observers, I think, you know, and I think great learners 00:47:32.905 --> 00:47:36.515 and look, I'm going through it with my eldest boy at the minute. 00:47:36.525 --> 00:47:38.674 He's struggling a bit with school and everything else. 00:47:38.674 --> 00:47:40.214 And, and, but we're all different. 00:47:40.244 --> 00:47:41.024 We're all unique. 00:47:41.024 --> 00:47:43.504 And all three of my boys are all very different. 00:47:44.465 --> 00:47:46.335 You know, similar upbringings, et cetera, et cetera. 00:47:46.335 --> 00:47:48.365 And that's the beauty of life, isn't it? 00:47:48.375 --> 00:47:51.835 You know, and I think for me, my kind of path was set. 00:47:51.835 --> 00:47:55.294 I had, you know, looking back, some pretty traumatic experience as a kid and a lot 00:47:55.295 --> 00:47:59.195 of setbacks, a lot of knockbacks in terms of, you know, moving and divorce and then 00:47:59.474 --> 00:48:01.139 losing my mom at a young age and then. 00:48:01.680 --> 00:48:05.430 Football and failing football, and then, you know, feeling lost and 00:48:05.430 --> 00:48:08.380 then trying to find identity and then joining the military and then 00:48:08.380 --> 00:48:09.380 going all the way through that. 00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:12.950 And then, you know, special forces and then always trying to search for 00:48:12.950 --> 00:48:16.109 something and, and, and then leaving and then, you know, forming, you 00:48:16.110 --> 00:48:18.149 know, founding ThruDark with Louis. 00:48:18.789 --> 00:48:21.560 Um, I think for me, I've always just wanted to push myself. 00:48:21.750 --> 00:48:25.120 You know, physically and mentally, I'm always doing, and who knows, I might 00:48:25.120 --> 00:48:28.260 get to 70 years old and then actually have to face my demons, Travis, and 00:48:28.260 --> 00:48:32.280 understand more deeply about why I do things, you know, and it's like 00:48:32.310 --> 00:48:35.520 London, running the London marathon at the end of April and all this stuff. 00:48:35.520 --> 00:48:36.400 It's always pushing. 00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:39.899 And, and since I left Jiu Jitsu has been a big part of that as well, you know, 00:48:39.940 --> 00:48:41.590 Travis Bader: training the ears is going to pick that 00:48:41.590 --> 00:48:46.580 Staz: up, but I think, you know, for me, it's like. 00:48:47.885 --> 00:48:50.015 It's difficult when you leave the military, isn't it? 00:48:50.045 --> 00:48:52.425 Because it's an echo chamber that we spoke about. 00:48:52.425 --> 00:48:55.065 You're surrounded by like minded people and individuals. 00:48:55.175 --> 00:48:56.175 But you have a purpose. 00:48:56.175 --> 00:48:58.285 You have something to train towards and something to force. 00:48:58.295 --> 00:48:59.565 And then it's bigger than yourself. 00:48:59.565 --> 00:49:00.915 And, and you leave. 00:49:00.915 --> 00:49:04.604 And because you attack so much of your identity to who you used to be, it leaves 00:49:04.605 --> 00:49:06.195 a massive fucking hole when you leave. 00:49:06.195 --> 00:49:08.565 And that's why a lot of people struggle when they leave. 00:49:09.155 --> 00:49:12.485 the military or when they leave, you know, um, professional sport, 00:49:12.575 --> 00:49:15.645 you know, and the statistics for themselves, you know, a lot of people 00:49:15.645 --> 00:49:17.395 struggle and, and it's difficult. 00:49:17.425 --> 00:49:18.035 It's hard. 00:49:18.045 --> 00:49:21.865 So I think for me, one of the main focus was always been around 00:49:22.325 --> 00:49:23.595 keeping myself physically fit. 00:49:23.645 --> 00:49:26.454 I think that's a massive part of, of, uh, who I am. 00:49:26.855 --> 00:49:29.355 Uh, it keeps me sane, you know, it's the whole oxygen mask thing 00:49:29.365 --> 00:49:33.355 as well as a look after yourself before other people and, um, and I 00:49:33.355 --> 00:49:34.695 don't think that's selfish at all. 00:49:34.725 --> 00:49:38.614 I think that for me, the morning is always some form of physical activity 00:49:38.614 --> 00:49:41.735 and it's been Jiu Jitsu has been a big part of that and Sam over at Reorg, who 00:49:41.744 --> 00:49:42.925 used to be a Royal Marine, he was a. 00:49:43.120 --> 00:49:47.230 PTI for 20 odd years and founded RE ORG, which is set up to help 00:49:47.290 --> 00:49:50.370 ex veterans and people who have left the emergency services. 00:49:50.790 --> 00:49:52.840 Um, yeah, he's a fantastic individual. 00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:55.050 Uh, he was the first black belt in the Royal Marines. 00:49:55.080 --> 00:49:58.959 Um, and he introduced me to Jiu Jitsu, uh, you know, a few years ago when I left. 00:49:58.959 --> 00:50:03.900 And, um, that's been a quite staples for me, sort of training four times a week. 00:50:03.940 --> 00:50:08.900 Um, I don't meditate, you know, I've tried the apps and bits and pieces probably. 00:50:09.270 --> 00:50:11.600 And in fairness, I probably just didn't give it enough. 00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:13.430 Time, energy or effort or commitment. 00:50:13.470 --> 00:50:17.040 I just sort of did the usual 10 minutes for a few days and went, I 00:50:17.040 --> 00:50:20.049 said, shit, you know, but I think for me, like jujitsu was great. 00:50:20.049 --> 00:50:22.240 It's perpetual, perpetual learning, which I love. 00:50:22.240 --> 00:50:22.970 There's no end goal. 00:50:22.980 --> 00:50:23.710 There's no end site. 00:50:23.759 --> 00:50:24.069 Yes. 00:50:24.070 --> 00:50:26.130 You get the better of the belts to train towards. 00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:30.289 You need short term and you have the now the near the next goals attached to that. 00:50:30.479 --> 00:50:32.390 But ultimately it's about development. 00:50:32.390 --> 00:50:33.150 It's about yourself. 00:50:33.150 --> 00:50:36.010 It's about every day, not fighting anybody else. 00:50:36.010 --> 00:50:38.730 You're fighting yourself almost every day, you know, and 00:50:38.970 --> 00:50:40.169 learning more about yourself. 00:50:40.855 --> 00:50:43.835 Travis Bader: So at a young age, I was diagnosed with ADHD. 00:50:43.875 --> 00:50:44.495 I'm curious. 00:50:44.495 --> 00:50:46.785 Has anyone ever accused you of having ADHD? 00:50:47.735 --> 00:50:48.795 Staz: Um, I don't know. 00:50:48.835 --> 00:50:50.035 I've looked online. 00:50:50.075 --> 00:50:53.105 Um, I probably, I certainly tick some of the boxes. 00:50:53.254 --> 00:50:56.835 Um, but no, I've never had any sort of assessment or anything like that. 00:50:56.884 --> 00:50:59.835 I think, I think most guys in our like minor work are. 00:51:00.390 --> 00:51:05.880 You know, they're all strange in some way or another, but we 00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:07.040 don't mean strange bad either. 00:51:07.040 --> 00:51:11.470 I think you need elements of ADHD and, uh, and, and, uh, straight 00:51:11.470 --> 00:51:12.630 lines and everything else. 00:51:12.649 --> 00:51:16.159 There's a peculiar sort of makeup of people within the 00:51:16.229 --> 00:51:17.910 military and business as well. 00:51:17.910 --> 00:51:23.020 I think a lot of co founders and business owners probably share a lot of the very 00:51:23.020 --> 00:51:25.090 similar, uh, personal characteristics. 00:51:25.470 --> 00:51:26.120 Travis Bader: You know, there's. 00:51:26.465 --> 00:51:29.835 Uh, a common trend that I see over and over again, when you read through 00:51:29.835 --> 00:51:33.755 some of the popular books out there, special forces individuals, but they 00:51:33.755 --> 00:51:35.575 come from backgrounds of adversity. 00:51:36.034 --> 00:51:40.674 Do you find people in ESF community that come from posh backgrounds 00:51:40.675 --> 00:51:44.385 that had everything, or is that a pretty, is that a bit of a rarity? 00:51:46.050 --> 00:51:46.220 I 00:51:46.220 --> 00:51:49.990 Staz: think, um, it is an eclectic mix in Special Forces. 00:51:49.990 --> 00:51:52.840 I remember looking left and right, and you're always judging people, aren't you? 00:51:52.840 --> 00:51:53.870 We do it naturally, like. 00:51:53.870 --> 00:51:54.100 Sure. 00:51:54.150 --> 00:51:57.010 And you look at these, okay, he's a man mountain, what am I doing here, and shit. 00:51:57.010 --> 00:52:00.029 And, you know, and they end up falling off, off a cliff, you know. 00:52:00.029 --> 00:52:04.560 And, um, you, you get all manner of means, but the, I'd say 90 percent of 00:52:04.560 --> 00:52:07.430 SF is made up of, What's the quote? 00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:09.250 The bastard sons of illegitimate parents. 00:52:09.300 --> 00:52:13.700 It's people that have had adversity, you know, people that have had had a 00:52:13.700 --> 00:52:17.549 real rough fucking upbringing, rough time, you know, and people that, um, 00:52:17.749 --> 00:52:20.370 I've got a chip on the shoulder, but hopefully I've harnessed it in the right, 00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:22.390 right direction for the right reasons. 00:52:22.449 --> 00:52:25.860 Um, you know, we have ex professional footballers, ex professional rugby 00:52:25.869 --> 00:52:29.100 players, ex people that used to be helicopter pilots, people that are. 00:52:29.725 --> 00:52:34.125 And then, and then, uh, people like, uh, what do you call, uh, travelers, 00:52:34.195 --> 00:52:38.264 like gypsies, people from Roman gypsy backgrounds, people that are, 00:52:38.714 --> 00:52:42.954 um, that, that have been locked up, people that were just, just tearaways, 00:52:43.004 --> 00:52:44.714 cavaliers, mavericks, rogues. 00:52:45.490 --> 00:52:48.760 You know, but ultimately we form this band of brothers that get on 00:52:48.760 --> 00:52:51.370 real well, you know, and, uh, and because I think you respect, you know, 00:52:51.380 --> 00:52:53.530 everyone's got that glint in their eye, you know, that little bit of, 00:52:54.210 --> 00:52:56.710 you know, special sauce or something that's just a little bit different. 00:52:56.710 --> 00:53:01.170 So I think, yeah, from having that fire in my belly, that really, cause you, you need 00:53:01.170 --> 00:53:05.240 that, you need something to hold onto when you are at your lowest and you just have 00:53:05.430 --> 00:53:09.220 to fucking deep and it goes beyond kind of the physical and you really sort of. 00:53:09.650 --> 00:53:11.950 Uh, dialing into the mental aspect, for sure. 00:53:12.280 --> 00:53:15.600 Travis Bader: So you were awarded the conspicuous gallantry cross. 00:53:16.620 --> 00:53:17.440 Did I say that one 00:53:17.440 --> 00:53:17.760 Staz: right? 00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:18.920 Yeah, yes. 00:53:18.920 --> 00:53:19.290 Correct. 00:53:19.290 --> 00:53:19.680 Yeah. 00:53:20.240 --> 00:53:21.999 Travis Bader: Um, can you tell me a bit about that? 00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:27.389 Can you tell me, probably not the exact incident, but, um, uh, what that entails? 00:53:28.249 --> 00:53:30.950 Staz: I have, I've done it before on a podcast and got told off. 00:53:30.990 --> 00:53:31.830 Um, so the. 00:53:33.130 --> 00:53:37.680 The CGC, Conspicuous Gallantry Cross, um, I know it's different to 00:53:37.730 --> 00:53:41.870 your guys kind of medal structure, but, um, it's awarded for, uh, 00:53:41.890 --> 00:53:44.190 for valor, um, on the battlefield. 00:53:44.190 --> 00:53:50.309 So for combat, for combat action, um, the, the structure or the only 00:53:50.310 --> 00:53:51.950 one above that is a Victoria Cross. 00:53:52.030 --> 00:53:52.930 That's our medal of honor. 00:53:52.930 --> 00:53:56.440 That's our highest honor that you can award and within special forces, if you, 00:53:56.440 --> 00:54:00.454 if you're being awarded a VC, it's, it's posthumously, you know, it's, you're not. 00:54:00.705 --> 00:54:01.935 You don't live to tell that tale. 00:54:02.215 --> 00:54:06.475 So it's the next sort of a medal down from that, the CGC, uh, I think there 00:54:06.485 --> 00:54:09.435 was only three that have ever been awarded within our kind of world. 00:54:09.825 --> 00:54:14.645 Um, and then the one below that is, um, the military cross and then it 00:54:14.645 --> 00:54:15.954 kind of moves down and down and down. 00:54:16.374 --> 00:54:18.935 Um, medals are a fucking weird one, aren't they? 00:54:18.995 --> 00:54:19.845 You know, and I. 00:54:20.420 --> 00:54:23.070 Chapter in my book called medal, uh, you know, medals are for mothers. 00:54:23.200 --> 00:54:23.450 Yeah. 00:54:23.610 --> 00:54:27.790 Um, we certainly don't join or do the job that we do for recognition. 00:54:27.810 --> 00:54:30.060 We don't do it for medals, you know, or anything like that. 00:54:30.140 --> 00:54:34.899 Um, that's not to say that it's not nice to be recognized for the work that you 00:54:34.899 --> 00:54:39.790 do, but I always felt like anytime anybody was receiving of a medal, it was always. 00:54:40.130 --> 00:54:44.500 Um, you know, you will be receiving that on behalf or behest of everybody 00:54:44.500 --> 00:54:47.330 else, you know, for the whole unit and for the squadron and for the team. 00:54:47.820 --> 00:54:52.840 Um, the, the, the, the reason I received my medal was I was wrote up for two 00:54:52.840 --> 00:54:56.679 separate jobs, uh, that was kind of combined together on one operational tour, 00:54:56.890 --> 00:54:58.259 but this tour was slightly different. 00:54:58.300 --> 00:55:00.670 You know, all the tours previously I'd been with the squadrons, 00:55:00.670 --> 00:55:01.800 but this one, it was different. 00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:04.400 I was in Kabul, Afghanistan, 2013, and I was. 00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:11.300 Um, I was in charge of a local partner force, um, uh, within, within the city. 00:55:11.300 --> 00:55:14.500 And it was a strike, uh, element of a find and fix. 00:55:15.160 --> 00:55:19.700 And yeah, there was a couple of jobs there that just were huge jobs that 00:55:19.700 --> 00:55:26.000 were multi nation I jobs that had huge strategic and, uh, implications. 00:55:26.080 --> 00:55:30.450 Um, yeah, I was also working above and beyond what, uh, where I should 00:55:30.450 --> 00:55:32.080 have been in terms of rank and. 00:55:32.515 --> 00:55:35.335 And everything else and somebody pulled out the job that they couldn't do it. 00:55:35.335 --> 00:55:38.065 So I stepped up and was, you know, an acting sort of rank 00:55:38.065 --> 00:55:39.985 and had a lot of responsibility. 00:55:40.165 --> 00:55:43.815 Um, and you know, I had a couple of very successful missions off the back of 00:55:43.815 --> 00:55:48.015 it and a few close shaves as well that were associated to that sort of stuff. 00:55:48.015 --> 00:55:51.135 And, um, yeah, so it's, it's, it's a strange one. 00:55:51.135 --> 00:55:53.025 And I write about it in my book. 00:55:53.025 --> 00:55:57.415 It's, um, you know, I talk about medals being for mothers and that's great. 00:55:57.425 --> 00:55:59.165 It's nice for legacy and for other people. 00:55:59.405 --> 00:56:00.815 You always feel slightly. 00:56:01.620 --> 00:56:05.970 Strange receiving medals and recognition in our world. 00:56:05.980 --> 00:56:08.920 It's kind of, you know, and everybody was really supportive and like most 00:56:08.920 --> 00:56:12.279 guys are, but you know, it's, you still sort of feel a bit, Ooh, it's strange. 00:56:12.279 --> 00:56:16.330 And like, I'm just doing my fucking job, like, you know, but you know, it 00:56:16.460 --> 00:56:20.519 is what it is, but yeah, it's, it's a different, I also mentioned actually in 00:56:20.520 --> 00:56:26.279 the book about having to sell my medals as well when I left the military, um, 00:56:26.860 --> 00:56:33.275 which You know, at the time I'd left the military, um, I was fucking, I was 00:56:33.275 --> 00:56:35.545 super stressed, spinning multiple plates. 00:56:35.545 --> 00:56:41.385 I was leaving the service, forming ThruDark, and I was going through 00:56:41.385 --> 00:56:45.434 a very difficult divorce, uh, financial separation, etc, etc. 00:56:45.925 --> 00:56:50.355 You know, I'm sleeping out of my friend's cars, like just sofa surfing, uh, 00:56:50.405 --> 00:56:52.725 my friends just in a real bad place. 00:56:52.765 --> 00:56:56.545 Um, but, but also trying to make things work with the business, et 00:56:56.545 --> 00:57:00.974 cetera, et cetera, taking a lot of risk, uh, and, and super stressed, you 00:57:00.974 --> 00:57:04.505 know, and the, uh, actually the, the medals got brought up as part of the 00:57:04.515 --> 00:57:06.265 financial settlement for my divorce. 00:57:06.315 --> 00:57:11.575 Um, my, uh, ex wife had them valued, um, all her solicitors 00:57:11.575 --> 00:57:15.225 did, and they, you know, no. 00:57:15.445 --> 00:57:18.885 You know, they sort of saw it as a piece of art, you know, it's like a the wall. 00:57:18.895 --> 00:57:22.065 It's worth what it's worth and that got brought into the finals, you know, 00:57:22.075 --> 00:57:26.375 immediately I was, my initial reaction was emotional and was fucking not a chance. 00:57:26.375 --> 00:57:28.165 What the fuck, you know, all this kind of stuff. 00:57:28.165 --> 00:57:33.205 And, um, and then actually when I sort of looked at things objectively and 00:57:33.214 --> 00:57:38.605 removed emotion from the decision making process, what, you know, I had the pride 00:57:38.605 --> 00:57:41.775 element, but then I had the thought of saying, well, actually, what will it 00:57:41.835 --> 00:57:45.855 allow me to do if I sold these medals, it would give me a clean financial break. 00:57:46.155 --> 00:57:49.205 You know, I would, it would remove all the debt across both parties. 00:57:49.790 --> 00:57:52.980 It would put a roof over my son's head, you know, it would give 00:57:53.790 --> 00:57:56.240 assurances to those guys as well. 00:57:56.450 --> 00:57:59.090 She deserved it as well, we've been together 13 years, you know, so 00:57:59.159 --> 00:58:01.120 absolutely, I didn't feel bad in that way. 00:58:01.239 --> 00:58:05.939 Um, but also it would allow me to be financially secure and set, you 00:58:05.939 --> 00:58:07.409 know, and to move into ThruDark. 00:58:07.439 --> 00:58:10.670 So, there's a saying, isn't there, fucking drowning sailors 00:58:10.670 --> 00:58:11.990 don't hold on to gold bars. 00:58:12.050 --> 00:58:12.350 Right. 00:58:12.350 --> 00:58:14.410 You know, and at that time, I was fucking drowning. 00:58:14.650 --> 00:58:16.880 Um, so will I regret the decision? 00:58:16.950 --> 00:58:19.360 I don't know, Travis, you know, I do have an option. 00:58:19.400 --> 00:58:22.720 I know the person that bought them to buy them back, you know, so if through dark 00:58:22.720 --> 00:58:26.200 is a huge success in a few years and, you know, I take some money off the table, 00:58:26.230 --> 00:58:27.680 then that's an option to buy them back. 00:58:27.710 --> 00:58:31.089 But the trinkets for me, I, the main thing that's attached to that is. 00:58:31.705 --> 00:58:35.535 What I did to, to, to deserve that and to earn that, you know, you can't sell that. 00:58:36.045 --> 00:58:39.205 So if I want the trinkets though, and I want to put them on a wall, 00:58:39.205 --> 00:58:41.035 then I can, I can buy that back. 00:58:41.135 --> 00:58:45.025 You know, but when I, when I weighed it up, like a decision, 00:58:45.184 --> 00:58:48.355 like a business decision, it made absolute sense to me at the time. 00:58:49.095 --> 00:58:51.414 Travis Bader: So removing that emotion from the decision, 00:58:51.414 --> 00:58:52.845 is that something that, uh. 00:58:54.130 --> 00:58:55.320 Do you have a process for doing that? 00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:56.760 Is that something you find quite easy? 00:58:56.840 --> 00:58:58.730 It's going to segue into my next question, but, 00:58:58.730 --> 00:59:02.029 Staz: um, I think, um, I think it's a great question. 00:59:02.029 --> 00:59:05.830 I think, and this is what I'm going to fucking divide opinions here, but I dare 00:59:05.830 --> 00:59:09.170 say your audience is mainly male, but I think that's the difference, isn't it? 00:59:09.220 --> 00:59:11.230 You know, men are from Mars and women have. 00:59:11.350 --> 00:59:14.880 Venus, generally speaking, and it has its benefits and negatives 00:59:14.940 --> 00:59:16.030 obviously attached to it. 00:59:16.040 --> 00:59:21.270 We are quite logical creatures, you know, and I can remove emotion for the most 00:59:21.270 --> 00:59:25.580 part from decision making processes and never make a decision off of emotion. 00:59:25.840 --> 00:59:27.969 I think it's one of those things I try and do day to day. 00:59:27.969 --> 00:59:32.640 So anything when it when it comes to business or life, but that can sometimes 00:59:32.640 --> 00:59:34.220 seem like you're not an emotional person. 00:59:34.815 --> 00:59:35.945 It's not that for me. 00:59:35.945 --> 00:59:38.955 I think it's more about making the right decision with all the 00:59:38.955 --> 00:59:40.245 information that you have at the time. 00:59:40.245 --> 00:59:42.505 And I've always tried to lead like that, you know, and I've always 00:59:42.644 --> 00:59:44.275 tried to live my life like that. 00:59:44.654 --> 00:59:46.015 I'm not, don't get me wrong. 00:59:46.015 --> 00:59:49.614 I, there's times when I've not got it right, you know, and I am an 00:59:49.614 --> 00:59:51.284 emotional person in so much that. 00:59:51.530 --> 00:59:54.720 You know, I'm quick to anger sometimes, or, you know, but I recognize that 00:59:54.720 --> 00:59:56.980 more now in myself as I become older. 00:59:56.980 --> 00:59:59.860 And, you know, I read things like the chimp paradox by 00:59:59.910 --> 01:00:01.850 professor, professor Steve Peters. 01:00:01.850 --> 01:00:07.369 And it was really kind of turnkey lock open my, my own thought process about 01:00:07.369 --> 01:00:10.729 how I think about things, you know, and that chimp brain and having the 01:00:10.730 --> 01:00:12.710 computer and autonomous brain as well. 01:00:12.720 --> 01:00:15.220 And, you know, it's really helped me understand my, how 01:00:15.220 --> 01:00:16.500 I deal with things as well. 01:00:16.500 --> 01:00:17.550 So interesting. 01:00:17.580 --> 01:00:17.910 Yeah. 01:00:18.440 --> 01:00:19.450 Yeah, it's interesting. 01:00:19.450 --> 01:00:20.760 I think, you know, we are different. 01:00:20.760 --> 01:00:24.120 And when, when you, when you're making bigger decisions. 01:00:24.835 --> 01:00:27.625 I think that it's, you're wise to seek counsel. 01:00:27.625 --> 01:00:29.205 You know, Louis is great for me. 01:00:29.215 --> 01:00:31.045 He's somebody that I can really dial into. 01:00:31.045 --> 01:00:33.965 And he's, you know, we're very similar, but very different as well. 01:00:34.025 --> 01:00:36.335 So, you know, if I'm thinking something, I'm like, Hey Louis, 01:00:36.574 --> 01:00:37.984 let me fucking soundboard you here. 01:00:37.984 --> 01:00:39.644 And he'll give me an honest answer. 01:00:39.660 --> 01:00:43.740 Honest appraisal of whatever it, that could be anything that could 01:00:43.740 --> 01:00:46.250 be, you know, Hey Louie, I'm thinking about buying a new house. 01:00:46.250 --> 01:00:46.890 What do you think? 01:00:47.260 --> 01:00:49.000 Or Louie, what do you think about this? 01:00:49.010 --> 01:00:51.480 You know, something a bit more serious about medals and he'll go, 01:00:51.490 --> 01:00:52.960 well, let's, let's look at this. 01:00:52.970 --> 01:00:53.860 What does it look like? 01:00:53.870 --> 01:00:54.700 You know, what are the pros? 01:00:54.700 --> 01:00:55.460 What are the cons? 01:00:55.860 --> 01:00:56.909 How do you feel about it? 01:00:56.940 --> 01:00:57.890 What do you want to do? 01:00:58.219 --> 01:00:59.080 Make a decision. 01:00:59.170 --> 01:01:01.350 You know, no decision is a decision. 01:01:01.350 --> 01:01:04.060 So make a fucking decision and see it through. 01:01:04.590 --> 01:01:08.690 You know, and, and you, and you live by that decision and look, sometimes we get 01:01:08.690 --> 01:01:10.460 it wrong and sometimes we get it right. 01:01:10.470 --> 01:01:11.410 And that's the beauty of life. 01:01:12.120 --> 01:01:16.180 Travis Bader: So Andy McNabb, Stephen Mitchell wrote the book, uh, 01:01:16.880 --> 01:01:20.560 tons of books, but he's written a couple of books about the, the good 01:01:20.560 --> 01:01:22.829 so called paths guide to success. 01:01:22.840 --> 01:01:23.669 Have you seen those ones? 01:01:24.365 --> 01:01:24.715 The what? 01:01:24.715 --> 01:01:25.135 Sorry. 01:01:25.335 --> 01:01:27.675 The good psychopaths guide to success. 01:01:28.515 --> 01:01:29.655 Oh, the psychopaths. 01:01:29.715 --> 01:01:30.345 Yes. 01:01:30.605 --> 01:01:31.055 Have you seen those? 01:01:31.095 --> 01:01:31.425 Yeah. 01:01:31.425 --> 01:01:32.404 Staz: Yeah. 01:01:32.485 --> 01:01:32.585 I 01:01:32.765 --> 01:01:32.835 Travis Bader: have. 01:01:34.215 --> 01:01:36.245 About, you know, people look at psychopathy and they say, 01:01:36.275 --> 01:01:37.505 oh, this is a terrible thing. 01:01:37.505 --> 01:01:40.864 And they associate it with criminal psychopathy or ill intent, but, but 01:01:40.864 --> 01:01:42.729 there's also the judges and the. 01:01:42.870 --> 01:01:46.870 And the surgeons and the, the people who got the special forces soldiers, 01:01:47.060 --> 01:01:50.040 they have a job to do, they've got to go in and they've got the ability 01:01:50.040 --> 01:01:54.440 to compartmentalize these things in a different way than, than other people. 01:01:54.579 --> 01:02:00.289 Um, wouldn't I'm curious about, and of course, you know, snakes and suits, and 01:02:00.289 --> 01:02:05.110 they talk about psychopathy within, uh, workplaces and high level executives 01:02:05.110 --> 01:02:06.500 and how that can be a good thing. 01:02:07.240 --> 01:02:11.130 How can it be a bad if, if it's a, uh, it's a negative environment. 01:02:12.170 --> 01:02:13.930 I'm curious about your takes on that. 01:02:13.930 --> 01:02:18.010 I remember reading the, um, uh, uh, what did you say? 01:02:18.010 --> 01:02:19.580 Someone asked you about PTSD. 01:02:20.310 --> 01:02:24.879 And I, I, I got a chuckle, but he said the PTSD, I mean, like, you 01:02:24.879 --> 01:02:28.129 know, I'll look back at things, but more, more in a nostalgic way. 01:02:28.170 --> 01:02:31.700 And I don't know, you know, that could be taken out of context, obviously, 01:02:31.700 --> 01:02:36.120 and you don't go through a difficult times without that imprinting in certain 01:02:36.120 --> 01:02:39.530 ways on the brain and the body and, and having certain reactions to it. 01:02:39.550 --> 01:02:46.220 But the ability to work through these difficulties and other, how otherwise 01:02:46.350 --> 01:02:49.830 people might look at as negative experiences, but work through it in 01:02:49.830 --> 01:02:54.250 a way where you can find a positive outcome is, uh, is very interesting. 01:02:54.250 --> 01:02:56.360 And I just love to hear your thoughts. 01:02:57.250 --> 01:02:57.760 Staz: Yeah. 01:02:57.990 --> 01:02:59.759 Um, there's a few things to unpick there. 01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:03.260 Um, I'll start with, I've never, I've never actually done, there's a guy, 01:03:03.290 --> 01:03:06.379 um, a, uh, questionnaire, isn't it? 01:03:06.470 --> 01:03:07.229 That you can do online. 01:03:07.229 --> 01:03:08.560 It's the psychopath sort of question. 01:03:09.930 --> 01:03:10.491 I've never done it. 01:03:10.491 --> 01:03:11.759 I might do it after this. 01:03:11.760 --> 01:03:15.100 I'll report back my findings, but I'm pretty sure I know what they are. 01:03:15.450 --> 01:03:18.510 Um, but I think if we unpick that sort of stuff, for me, I've always 01:03:18.510 --> 01:03:20.120 been a very, very positive person. 01:03:20.240 --> 01:03:21.960 I've always looked forward. 01:03:22.100 --> 01:03:26.070 You know, the only reason, you know, I hate, I don't live in the past. 01:03:26.360 --> 01:03:30.410 I don't worry about things I can't control, you know, so for me, a lot of 01:03:30.410 --> 01:03:33.530 that worries the misuse of imagination, you know, and day to day, that's 01:03:33.530 --> 01:03:37.110 where most people, if you look at the things that consume a lot of people in 01:03:37.110 --> 01:03:40.729 terms of worry and stress, you know, 90 percent of the worry and stress 01:03:40.730 --> 01:03:42.150 doesn't actually come to fruition. 01:03:42.210 --> 01:03:45.130 You know, I know that's easy to say, don't worry about what you can't control. 01:03:45.130 --> 01:03:47.830 It's like fucking cheers, you know, all this fucking stress I'm trying 01:03:47.830 --> 01:03:51.000 to manage, but actually there's a lot of truth in that, you know. 01:03:51.545 --> 01:03:54.795 Control what you can control, write down things, you know, make a journal 01:03:54.885 --> 01:03:59.560 and then actually turn it into a process driven Thought process rather 01:03:59.560 --> 01:04:02.860 than an emotion driven process, you know, and writing things down. 01:04:02.860 --> 01:04:03.680 There's power in that. 01:04:03.720 --> 01:04:06.200 Once you put pen to paper, you see it, you can action it. 01:04:06.490 --> 01:04:09.639 And then if you can't control it, fucking delete it and erase 01:04:09.860 --> 01:04:12.779 it, physically erase it off the paper and erase it from your mind. 01:04:13.180 --> 01:04:15.420 You know, and if it happens, it happens you deal with it when it doesn't, you 01:04:15.420 --> 01:04:16.569 cross the bridge when it comes to it. 01:04:16.570 --> 01:04:16.610 But. 01:04:17.060 --> 01:04:23.990 PTSD is such a complex situ, um, complex, uh, and real, um, um, scenario, and, and 01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:28.040 of which I'm not an expert, you know, uh, clearly I'm not a, a psychologist, and 01:04:28.250 --> 01:04:32.129 it's a very nuanced and, and difficult conversation and topic to get into. 01:04:32.130 --> 01:04:35.099 I've seen people that personally and professionally that have been affected 01:04:35.119 --> 01:04:39.259 by this, and I don't know if it's short term or long term or what, I just don't 01:04:39.259 --> 01:04:43.389 know if the systems are set up right now to deal with, with, um, people in 01:04:43.389 --> 01:04:46.000 particularly, uh, particularly well, I don't think we fully understand. 01:04:46.515 --> 01:04:48.025 Uh, how it affects people differently. 01:04:48.265 --> 01:04:54.795 I think there are current, um, uh, preventative measures and, uh, everything 01:04:54.795 --> 01:04:58.395 else, and a lot of great work that's being done by MAP and everybody else 01:04:58.425 --> 01:05:02.464 that are just taking far too long to come in, you know, and be signed off when 01:05:02.465 --> 01:05:03.944 we can see that it's fucking working. 01:05:04.794 --> 01:05:07.915 You know, given the context of how serious the situation is and how many 01:05:07.915 --> 01:05:11.325 men, you know, the biggest killer of men right now under 40 is suicide, 01:05:11.585 --> 01:05:16.255 you know, more people have killed themselves than been killed in the wars. 01:05:16.284 --> 01:05:17.074 You know, it's just. 01:05:17.230 --> 01:05:21.300 Fucking atrocious, you know, and I think it's not one thing. 01:05:21.300 --> 01:05:26.239 It's, it's many things layered, um, which makes it far more difficult to, 01:05:26.280 --> 01:05:29.840 to kind of pin down, I guess, you know, I'm fortunate I've never had issues. 01:05:30.070 --> 01:05:31.269 I say I've not had issues. 01:05:31.269 --> 01:05:32.650 I mean, a lot of my. 01:05:33.085 --> 01:05:38.465 Um, my issues probably, uh, manifested in different ways, like drinking too 01:05:38.945 --> 01:05:42.045 much, you know, around that, that kind of echo chamber of people is 01:05:42.045 --> 01:05:44.814 a big drinking culture within the military, within professional sport. 01:05:44.825 --> 01:05:48.634 And it's almost encouraged, well, it is definitely encouraged and it's a way 01:05:48.634 --> 01:05:52.454 to open up and men talk and, you know, but probably don't talk as we should 01:05:52.454 --> 01:05:57.345 do, you know, we just talk 10 pints deep and, and, and you only talk to 01:05:57.345 --> 01:06:00.135 the people that understand, you know, I can't speak to anybody else because. 01:06:00.360 --> 01:06:02.880 They don't know, they don't understand when actually we should be opening up 01:06:02.880 --> 01:06:06.440 and having conversations and deeper and wider, far wider conversations with other 01:06:06.440 --> 01:06:09.549 people as well and our family and our friends and our peers and our loved ones, 01:06:09.549 --> 01:06:14.280 you know, and, but it's, it's a difficult one because part of me takes quite a hard 01:06:14.330 --> 01:06:18.585 line on it and I'm just kind of like, you You know, that's, that's a burden where 01:06:18.585 --> 01:06:22.175 men, you know, that's a burden that we carry, you know, and we carry the stress, 01:06:22.195 --> 01:06:26.005 you know, we carry that fucking can, you know, and, and that's part of being, 01:06:26.035 --> 01:06:29.704 being a man and being a guy and, and, and dealing with those responsibilities, you 01:06:29.704 --> 01:06:33.865 know, and, and that's something that we should, we should, you know, pressure is 01:06:33.865 --> 01:06:35.444 a privilege and we should take that on. 01:06:36.260 --> 01:06:37.660 You know, fuck me. 01:06:37.690 --> 01:06:38.630 It is difficult. 01:06:38.680 --> 01:06:41.420 There's been times where, you know, I've been super stressed and 01:06:41.420 --> 01:06:42.550 I felt that when I was leaving. 01:06:42.550 --> 01:06:45.250 I touched on it earlier when I was leaving the service and, you know, 01:06:45.250 --> 01:06:48.349 having the financial stress and worry and not having a bed to, to lay your 01:06:48.350 --> 01:06:50.050 head down at night and fuck out. 01:06:50.120 --> 01:06:51.790 That's a, that's a real stress. 01:06:51.840 --> 01:06:54.859 You know, that's not a write it down on a piece of paper and fucking delete it. 01:06:55.100 --> 01:06:56.900 That's a shit, where am I sleeping tonight? 01:06:56.990 --> 01:06:59.990 And shit, I've got no money in the bank and oh, how am I going to do this? 01:06:59.990 --> 01:07:02.300 And how am I going to feed my fucking kids and my family? 01:07:02.715 --> 01:07:06.365 You know, they're real stressors and, um, and everybody's got different 01:07:06.365 --> 01:07:09.385 break constraints, you know, and everybody breaks at different, different 01:07:09.435 --> 01:07:11.115 times and for different reasons. 01:07:11.164 --> 01:07:14.935 And that's why it's so complex of an issue because we're all different, you know, 01:07:14.935 --> 01:07:16.645 and it affects people differently as well. 01:07:17.004 --> 01:07:19.535 Travis Bader: What are the, what are the things that keep you up at night? 01:07:21.224 --> 01:07:27.525 Staz: Um, I think I'm quite good. 01:07:28.025 --> 01:07:29.435 I, I'm not a massive stressor. 01:07:30.550 --> 01:07:33.450 I, I put into practice what I've just been preaching, you know, 01:07:33.450 --> 01:07:35.130 and nothing keeps me up at night. 01:07:35.280 --> 01:07:38.970 Only things that, you know, sometimes I, right now at the moment, you know, 01:07:38.970 --> 01:07:41.940 my granddad's not very well, you know, he's the father figure for me, somebody 01:07:41.940 --> 01:07:46.630 that I've looked up to and is his, you know, his guidance and, uh, and 01:07:46.650 --> 01:07:49.240 his values have been imprinted on me. 01:07:49.405 --> 01:07:53.915 Um, and, you know, I think, you know, he's not well at, you know, stage two 01:07:53.915 --> 01:07:57.875 cancer and he's, he's not well, you know, and that sort of stuff can, can lead to 01:07:57.875 --> 01:08:03.195 worry and, and, and distress, but I can't control it, you know, and, and so there's 01:08:03.195 --> 01:08:07.455 parts and elements of me that worry about that, but then I think it's only small 01:08:07.695 --> 01:08:09.275 compartments of worry and that kind of. 01:08:09.480 --> 01:08:10.650 Try and park that. 01:08:11.060 --> 01:08:14.360 And then there's the obvious stuff like family, isn't it in, but it's 01:08:14.360 --> 01:08:17.820 difficult because I always look and I'm, I'm, I fucking hate this shit 01:08:17.820 --> 01:08:21.210 practice gratitude and all that, but actually I think at the very start, you 01:08:21.210 --> 01:08:24.360 know, what I have right now is what I wanted five years ago, you know, and. 01:08:25.020 --> 01:08:25.920 You know, a nice house. 01:08:26.050 --> 01:08:26.930 I've got food on the table. 01:08:26.930 --> 01:08:30.280 I've got a loving wife and brilliant kids and great relationships and 01:08:30.280 --> 01:08:33.870 friends and, and, and a network of people that I can lean into, you know, 01:08:33.870 --> 01:08:36.220 and, um, I'm so fucking fortunate. 01:08:36.240 --> 01:08:39.590 Most of my problems, Travis, are first world problems, you know, problem. 01:08:40.059 --> 01:08:43.360 I think a lot of people have is that we forget that sometimes and it just takes 01:08:43.410 --> 01:08:47.605 a little slap across the face to go, listen, man, just Fucking take a step 01:08:47.645 --> 01:08:52.995 back, zoom out, you know, and look at, do the commander's kind of appreciation 01:08:52.995 --> 01:08:56.714 and, uh, and look, and most, most of the times the things that are going wrong 01:08:56.714 --> 01:08:58.095 in your life, you can fucking change. 01:08:58.095 --> 01:09:00.115 And if you're, if you're honest with yourself, you can change it. 01:09:00.124 --> 01:09:02.985 If you're not happy with how you look, fucking change it. 01:09:02.995 --> 01:09:06.485 If you're not happy with your job, fucking change it, you know, and I think there's. 01:09:06.665 --> 01:09:11.735 A lot of people, uh, they, they project outwardly to the world and become victims. 01:09:11.805 --> 01:09:15.184 And, and I fucking, I hate that, you know, I fucking hate that. 01:09:15.184 --> 01:09:18.095 Um, um, so for me, I'm, I've always been somebody that's kind of always 01:09:18.104 --> 01:09:19.864 glass half full, but positive. 01:09:19.885 --> 01:09:22.905 But if I want change that I fuck it starts with me and I make the 01:09:22.905 --> 01:09:25.114 change, you know, and it's hard. 01:09:25.185 --> 01:09:26.054 It's fucking hard. 01:09:26.094 --> 01:09:27.435 People turn around and it's all right. 01:09:27.435 --> 01:09:28.165 It's okay for you. 01:09:28.165 --> 01:09:29.795 You've got this and that and fuck you. 01:09:29.805 --> 01:09:32.515 Listen, you've not seen what I've done and, and, and what the things 01:09:32.515 --> 01:09:35.195 like the sacrifices I've had to make to get to where you are. 01:09:35.555 --> 01:09:36.145 If you asked any. 01:09:37.025 --> 01:09:38.825 What they've sacrificed to get to where they were. 01:09:38.985 --> 01:09:40.965 Everybody wants to be the professional athlete. 01:09:40.995 --> 01:09:43.755 Nobody wants to do what the professional athlete has done. 01:09:44.055 --> 01:09:45.615 Everybody wants to be in the military. 01:09:45.855 --> 01:09:47.665 Everybody wants to be special forces. 01:09:47.865 --> 01:09:52.095 There's no, very small percentage of people that actually want to do 01:09:52.405 --> 01:09:53.854 and put in the, you know, that time. 01:09:53.864 --> 01:09:57.075 Those hard yards to become special forces and then to actually do the job. 01:09:57.105 --> 01:09:57.965 Because it's fucking hard. 01:09:58.465 --> 01:10:02.305 You know, so it's, it's hard, you know, and a lot of people talk about 01:10:02.305 --> 01:10:04.855 the thing, you know, talking about the thing, isn't doing the thing, 01:10:04.895 --> 01:10:07.645 telling people you're going to do the thing, isn't doing the fucking thing, 01:10:07.975 --> 01:10:13.545 you know, and right now isn't doing the thing, it's fucking do the thing. 01:10:13.795 --> 01:10:17.355 And unfortunately, people don't like the hard truth of just saying. 01:10:17.735 --> 01:10:22.235 Fucking have a plan and fucking execute on it, you know, and you train for a match 01:10:22.235 --> 01:10:25.275 like training for a marathon I'm training for my fucking hate running Travis, you 01:10:25.275 --> 01:10:29.165 know, but my fucking knees and my back and my hips are fucking script But you 01:10:29.165 --> 01:10:33.035 know, I'm I'm doing it for a good reason I'm doing it to give myself something 01:10:33.035 --> 01:10:37.194 to train for and to keep myself engaged It's for a good cause for a good charity 01:10:37.235 --> 01:10:42.255 and I think well, let's let's work back from what does end state look like 26? 01:10:42.275 --> 01:10:42.855 My okay. 01:10:42.965 --> 01:10:44.425 Well, let's get a program in place. 01:10:44.425 --> 01:10:47.520 Let's work back and You still have to fucking do the training and 01:10:47.520 --> 01:10:48.490 you've still got to run the race. 01:10:48.810 --> 01:10:52.650 I've still got to turn up at the end of April and run the fucking race, you know. 01:10:52.650 --> 01:10:55.144 And unfortunately a lot of people talk themselves out of that. 01:10:55.665 --> 01:10:58.805 Travis Bader: You talk about victim mentality and I see that time and time 01:10:58.805 --> 01:11:04.525 again, in our popular culture, throughout our media, my kids, they're both in 01:11:04.525 --> 01:11:08.185 high school right now, got a daughter who's going to be turning 17 and a 01:11:08.185 --> 01:11:10.165 son who's going to be turning 15 here. 01:11:10.895 --> 01:11:15.905 Um, and I see it within the school systems and how it's, how it's, 01:11:15.935 --> 01:11:17.565 uh, just sort of indoctrinated. 01:11:17.565 --> 01:11:19.385 It's always somebody else's problem, right? 01:11:19.395 --> 01:11:21.305 Don't get me started on the school systems. 01:11:21.375 --> 01:11:22.335 Oh my God. 01:11:22.495 --> 01:11:24.054 If it's like it is over here. 01:11:24.350 --> 01:11:30.760 Like I will specifically look for adversity and ways to build resilience 01:11:30.760 --> 01:11:34.049 within my children, because I can see that as a massively lacking 01:11:34.050 --> 01:11:35.730 thing within our school systems. 01:11:36.950 --> 01:11:39.989 I was going to ask, what's it like over there in the UK and what are you, 01:11:40.079 --> 01:11:41.299 what are you doing with your kids? 01:11:42.339 --> 01:11:42.919 Staz: Well, okay. 01:11:42.919 --> 01:11:43.770 Now, yeah. 01:11:44.650 --> 01:11:47.250 Um, probably very similar to be honest. 01:11:47.250 --> 01:11:47.660 I mean. 01:11:48.250 --> 01:11:51.910 And this isn't, this isn't sticking the, you know, swinging the lantern 01:11:51.950 --> 01:11:54.880 as well and saying, well, back in my day, it was fucking different 01:11:54.880 --> 01:11:56.410 and we used to do this and that. 01:11:56.450 --> 01:11:57.379 Cause we've all had that. 01:11:57.379 --> 01:11:58.450 We've all had elements of that. 01:11:58.580 --> 01:12:03.100 And listen, the world is moving and progressing in such a complex, 01:12:03.390 --> 01:12:08.050 you know, fast evolving way across how we communicate, access 01:12:08.050 --> 01:12:09.610 to information, social media. 01:12:09.630 --> 01:12:12.664 The pressures are different on kids than what they were when we were younger. 01:12:12.945 --> 01:12:13.405 They are. 01:12:13.405 --> 01:12:17.045 And, and, um, and they have to be, they almost have to put their own suit 01:12:17.055 --> 01:12:18.605 of armor on to deal with that shit. 01:12:18.615 --> 01:12:22.134 So that's its own separate topic and subject, you know, social media 01:12:22.134 --> 01:12:26.985 and influences and people and what they, who they look to as their 01:12:27.005 --> 01:12:30.775 talisman, which is fucking horrendous, can be horrendous nowadays and 01:12:31.105 --> 01:12:32.515 what they think is good and what. 01:12:32.975 --> 01:12:33.775 I think is good. 01:12:33.775 --> 01:12:34.925 It probably very different. 01:12:35.045 --> 01:12:38.675 Um, I think it comes down to, you mentioned it. 01:12:38.675 --> 01:12:42.985 There was resilience, you know, um, if you're not pushing yourself physically 01:12:42.985 --> 01:12:48.355 and mentally, you know, you're not fucking, you're not setting yourself 01:12:48.445 --> 01:12:50.124 up for success moving through life. 01:12:50.340 --> 01:12:53.920 You know, and it's I have this like kind of I spoke before to people 01:12:53.920 --> 01:12:59.040 about about your kids and it's a great example of when do you tell your kids 01:12:59.120 --> 01:13:01.460 not to do something or when is it date? 01:13:01.460 --> 01:13:02.470 When does it become dangerous? 01:13:02.500 --> 01:13:03.879 And like, I'll do it now. 01:13:03.879 --> 01:13:06.109 And you know, my, my, my eldest is 12. 01:13:07.180 --> 01:13:12.645 Lucas, I'll be seven and he was a Soon to be three, so quite differing ages there. 01:13:12.915 --> 01:13:17.765 But for me, it's always been like when they climbing a tree and this is where 01:13:17.765 --> 01:13:19.965 you're very different to the wife because I'm like, no, no, I've got this. 01:13:20.135 --> 01:13:22.765 I got this Watson climbed the tree. 01:13:23.394 --> 01:13:26.424 Now you're going to let the I'm going to let Lucas, I'm going 01:13:26.424 --> 01:13:27.335 to let my eldest climb higher. 01:13:27.855 --> 01:13:29.145 You know, he's pretty much free reign now. 01:13:29.185 --> 01:13:31.445 If he falls, he falls and that's it, you know, and, you 01:13:31.445 --> 01:13:32.815 know, to a point, obviously. 01:13:33.245 --> 01:13:35.815 And then you let the seven year old, yeah, he can go to a certain height that 01:13:35.815 --> 01:13:38.325 I'm, that I deem to be okay and safe. 01:13:38.325 --> 01:13:39.804 And then the three year old, same again. 01:13:40.014 --> 01:13:42.125 But you have to let them climb the fucking tree. 01:13:42.855 --> 01:13:46.264 Like this helicopter parenting just does not fucking work and it's bullshit. 01:13:46.355 --> 01:13:49.285 So I think you've got to let them climb, be there, be around. 01:13:49.365 --> 01:13:52.185 And so you're in a safe position that you can stop them if they fall. 01:13:52.305 --> 01:13:53.974 And it gets to a certain height though, doesn't it? 01:13:53.974 --> 01:13:54.394 Where you go. 01:13:54.820 --> 01:13:56.360 They're climbing up and you go, what if he falls from there? 01:13:56.600 --> 01:13:58.660 You're doing the assessment in your head, if he falls from there, 01:13:58.790 --> 01:14:00.690 he'll bounce and he'll, might cry. 01:14:00.840 --> 01:14:01.730 It won't be bad. 01:14:02.160 --> 01:14:05.230 Then they go to the next stage of height and you go, if he falls from 01:14:05.230 --> 01:14:06.760 there, it's definitely gonna hurt. 01:14:07.100 --> 01:14:08.880 It'll probably break, it might break something. 01:14:09.159 --> 01:14:11.910 And then there's the next height where, fucking hell, that's 01:14:11.930 --> 01:14:12.909 really gonna fucking hurt. 01:14:13.049 --> 01:14:14.680 And it could be catastrophic. 01:14:14.890 --> 01:14:17.250 And that's when you, you know, you give them the whistle 01:14:17.250 --> 01:14:18.720 and tell them to come down. 01:14:19.200 --> 01:14:21.210 But you have to, they have to be allowed. 01:14:21.690 --> 01:14:25.630 To be given that, that room to maneuver, you know, they have to run, you know, 01:14:25.630 --> 01:14:26.810 these parents don't stop running. 01:14:26.810 --> 01:14:27.900 Don't run, you might fall. 01:14:27.900 --> 01:14:28.470 They've got to fall. 01:14:28.820 --> 01:14:32.019 You've got to get, you have to get, you have to get gravel rash. 01:14:32.310 --> 01:14:35.810 You know, and even when you're older, you have to have gravel rash. 01:14:35.840 --> 01:14:39.309 You have to understand what it's like to touch the fucking fire, to fall off 01:14:39.310 --> 01:14:44.170 your bike, to fall from a tree, to go and do jiu jitsu, to fail, you know, all 01:14:44.170 --> 01:14:45.390 these things now in school like that. 01:14:45.390 --> 01:14:46.030 There's no winners. 01:14:46.030 --> 01:14:46.850 There's no losers. 01:14:46.860 --> 01:14:48.350 What the fuck is that teaching people? 01:14:48.715 --> 01:14:50.604 You know, I just don't understand it. 01:14:50.605 --> 01:14:52.335 It just doesn't work for me. 01:14:52.365 --> 01:14:56.835 And the more and more we move kids away from, you know, competition, 01:14:57.104 --> 01:15:01.545 and sport, and physical exertion, and that resistance, and that 01:15:01.545 --> 01:15:05.548 resilience, I think is, that's, that's a bad move, in my opinion. 01:15:05.548 --> 01:15:09.141 It should, everything around school, uh, syllabus and system should be 01:15:09.141 --> 01:15:10.448 revolving around physical fitness. 01:15:10.448 --> 01:15:15.475 Because if you're not fit in your mind and your, and your body, You know, 01:15:15.475 --> 01:15:19.365 that's just not going to transfer well across all aspects of academia. 01:15:19.415 --> 01:15:21.605 You know, for me personally, I don't agree with it. 01:15:21.645 --> 01:15:25.195 And, and they're trying to fucking shoehorn everybody in and the 01:15:25.195 --> 01:15:26.574 system hasn't changed for years. 01:15:26.575 --> 01:15:30.514 I think somebody said how it was, it was, was it the CIA who made, who developed 01:15:30.525 --> 01:15:34.435 the school system in the U S for, for getting little robots to sit behind desks 01:15:34.435 --> 01:15:36.565 Travis Bader: and a couple of different, uh, yeah, 01:15:37.545 --> 01:15:38.025 Staz: I can fucking. 01:15:38.600 --> 01:15:41.730 Yeah, I can believe that, you know, and, and thought is 01:15:41.730 --> 01:15:43.190 not like kids are brilliant. 01:15:43.200 --> 01:15:44.700 You've ever had a conversation with kids. 01:15:44.750 --> 01:15:46.300 It's fucking brilliant. 01:15:47.900 --> 01:15:48.560 I love it. 01:15:48.560 --> 01:15:51.550 I sit in the car with the kids and I'm like, I just let them go on 01:15:51.560 --> 01:15:53.970 this mad world that they live in. 01:15:53.999 --> 01:15:55.559 And I think that's a beautiful thing. 01:15:55.580 --> 01:15:56.289 It's amazing. 01:15:56.289 --> 01:15:59.770 The creativity and the, and the schools are just fucking none of that. 01:15:59.790 --> 01:16:00.300 Stop that. 01:16:00.320 --> 01:16:00.630 Stop that. 01:16:00.800 --> 01:16:01.420 Stand in line. 01:16:02.020 --> 01:16:02.650 Don't say anything. 01:16:02.650 --> 01:16:05.769 Sitting a kid who wants to sit in class for an hour. 01:16:06.010 --> 01:16:07.050 Nobody does just be. 01:16:07.725 --> 01:16:12.615 It's just not natural at all, you know, and, and then they worry with them when 01:16:12.615 --> 01:16:16.044 kids are just fidgeting around and can't fucking sit still and they're going out 01:16:16.044 --> 01:16:20.125 of their fucking minds and, and I think it was the, the, the comedian Jimmy Carr. 01:16:20.645 --> 01:16:23.594 Exactly, exactly, and then, and then they're not exercising, 01:16:23.594 --> 01:16:24.454 brilliant, it just adds to it. 01:16:24.455 --> 01:16:25.575 of the fucking peril. 01:16:25.835 --> 01:16:28.085 Um, and that kind of looking forward thinking, what is this? 01:16:28.085 --> 01:16:29.445 It is this fucking life. 01:16:29.445 --> 01:16:30.505 This is fucking shit. 01:16:30.725 --> 01:16:32.665 You know, then you, the Jimmy Carr said it, didn't he? 01:16:32.665 --> 01:16:36.714 The, um, um, the British comedian, if you know Jimmy Carr, but he was saying 01:16:36.714 --> 01:16:40.984 about like the world doesn't need any more shit scientists, you know? 01:16:41.015 --> 01:16:44.915 So very quickly, very quickly, we should be looking at kids from a 01:16:45.175 --> 01:16:48.305 young age and just be set sort of always saying, okay, he's creative. 01:16:48.510 --> 01:16:49.480 Okay, he's science. 01:16:49.480 --> 01:16:49.840 He's art. 01:16:50.440 --> 01:16:51.620 Okay, he's physical. 01:16:51.870 --> 01:16:55.350 Okay, now let's start nurturing those kids towards what they're very good at. 01:16:55.480 --> 01:16:55.690 Right. 01:16:55.690 --> 01:16:56.000 You know? 01:16:56.010 --> 01:16:59.420 Yes, based knowledge and understanding of maths, English, I get that. 01:16:59.709 --> 01:17:02.780 But they don't need to be fucking rocket scientists, you know. 01:17:03.350 --> 01:17:07.259 I remember being sat in, and I'm still shit at maths now, Travis. 01:17:07.550 --> 01:17:09.500 But I run like, you know, you would an amazing, 01:17:09.710 --> 01:17:10.400 Travis Bader: but I got a calculator. 01:17:11.510 --> 01:17:12.260 Staz: Exactly. 01:17:12.260 --> 01:17:14.330 But you have, you use that in the real world. 01:17:14.330 --> 01:17:14.420 Mm-Hmm. 01:17:14.660 --> 01:17:18.380 , you have systems and things and automation and calculators to make things 01:17:18.590 --> 01:17:22.250 I don't need to know about fucking, you know, trigonometry and pi theorem. 01:17:22.255 --> 01:17:24.260 It just, I've never used that in my fucking life. 01:17:24.260 --> 01:17:27.560 I've not looked, I'm not a, you know, um, a biologist or 01:17:27.560 --> 01:17:29.450 I'm not a, I just don't get it. 01:17:29.750 --> 01:17:30.200 I don't get 01:17:30.200 --> 01:17:30.410 Travis Bader: it. 01:17:31.660 --> 01:17:34.280 Yeah, people double down on an individual's deficiencies. 01:17:34.310 --> 01:17:35.470 Oh, you're really bad at math. 01:17:35.500 --> 01:17:37.080 We better get you, we'll get you a tutor. 01:17:37.260 --> 01:17:39.430 Why not say, wow, you're really good at music. 01:17:39.610 --> 01:17:40.930 Let's get you a music tutor. 01:17:40.999 --> 01:17:42.439 Let's double down on what you're good at. 01:17:43.050 --> 01:17:44.510 Staz: If you, was it Einstein? 01:17:44.510 --> 01:17:47.419 If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it'll spend all its life 01:17:47.440 --> 01:17:49.764 thinking it's fucking inept and stupid. 01:17:50.375 --> 01:17:52.905 I think there's too much of that in schools right now, you know, um, so 01:17:52.905 --> 01:17:56.295 it just needs reforming, it needs changing, it needs, you know, making, 01:17:56.505 --> 01:18:00.335 something needs to be fucking changed and unfortunately that's a big cog that 01:18:00.355 --> 01:18:05.824 turns far too slowly, uh, you know, it's, it's difficult at the minute, you 01:18:05.824 --> 01:18:09.624 know, and, but this sensory overload that, that, that kids are currently, 01:18:09.874 --> 01:18:14.134 you know, these dopamine hits that they're exposed to right now, it's 01:18:14.314 --> 01:18:17.945 on a whole new fucking level, which I don't think we're fully aware of the 01:18:17.995 --> 01:18:19.349 implications and the effect of that. 01:18:19.510 --> 01:18:19.940 All the long 01:18:19.940 --> 01:18:20.710 Travis Bader: term effects of that. 01:18:20.740 --> 01:18:21.040 Yeah. 01:18:21.070 --> 01:18:22.400 It's going to be interesting to see. 01:18:22.680 --> 01:18:27.000 If your son turned around and said, dad, I want to follow in your footsteps. 01:18:27.030 --> 01:18:28.160 I want to be a Royal Marine. 01:18:28.180 --> 01:18:29.660 I want to try the SF route. 01:18:29.980 --> 01:18:30.699 What would you say to him? 01:18:31.389 --> 01:18:32.310 Let's say your eldest. 01:18:33.260 --> 01:18:36.820 Staz: Um, I would support any decision that he made to do anything. 01:18:36.829 --> 01:18:39.710 If he turned around to me, Travis said, I want to be a fucking ballerina. 01:18:39.800 --> 01:18:40.600 I would support that. 01:18:41.040 --> 01:18:43.320 My job as a parent is to support. 01:18:43.830 --> 01:18:48.190 Uh, and, and, and influence to a, to, to a degree, if it's a bad, if I think 01:18:48.190 --> 01:18:51.700 it's a dangerous or a bad decision, I can influence, but I've got to support. 01:18:51.760 --> 01:18:52.630 That's my whole job. 01:18:52.900 --> 01:18:56.430 Look, there's that analogy, isn't there, that I'm the fucking bow, you 01:18:56.430 --> 01:19:00.910 know, and, and I, all I need to make sure is that the kid, the arrow, once 01:19:00.939 --> 01:19:04.850 they're in that fucking bow, and I fucking pull back, that's, that's 01:19:04.850 --> 01:19:09.010 my job, to make sure that, that they are, have the best possible chance. 01:19:09.360 --> 01:19:12.770 of hitting the target, you know, and I'm the bow, they're the arrow, once the 01:19:12.840 --> 01:19:16.960 fucking arrow leaves the bow, you know, it's over to those guys, you know, and 01:19:16.980 --> 01:19:22.459 things happen, changes, wins, targets move, all this stuff, but ultimately, you 01:19:22.459 --> 01:19:26.609 know, I just, it's cliched, you want, you know, what do you want your kids to be? 01:19:26.609 --> 01:19:29.550 You want them to be healthy and happy, you know, and not enough of 01:19:29.550 --> 01:19:31.080 that at the minute, you know, what do you want to be when you're old? 01:19:31.090 --> 01:19:33.130 I want to be, I want to be happy and healthy. 01:19:34.060 --> 01:19:34.859 And, and, and. 01:19:35.130 --> 01:19:37.520 There's not enough of that going on at the moment, you know, it's, it's, 01:19:37.530 --> 01:19:39.700 you've got to do this and you've got to pass this test and if you don't 01:19:39.700 --> 01:19:44.110 do this, it's fucking, you know, it's so, it's suffocating for kids right 01:19:44.110 --> 01:19:48.380 now and it's difficult because they see on social media, this very small 01:19:48.740 --> 01:19:52.909 window of somebody's life and think that's it, like looking through a 01:19:52.910 --> 01:19:57.320 fucking letterbox and going, wow, look at that guy, they've nailed it. 01:19:57.430 --> 01:20:01.360 Well, ultimately, I know people on social media that are very unhappy. 01:20:01.805 --> 01:20:05.385 Very unhappy people, but if you looked at that fucking social media platform, 01:20:05.395 --> 01:20:08.255 you'd think that the happiest people on this planet, you know, and all the 01:20:08.255 --> 01:20:10.235 shit white on there and post on there. 01:20:10.235 --> 01:20:12.275 And I look at it and go, wow. 01:20:12.604 --> 01:20:15.415 And I know them and I think, well, how many other people are doing that? 01:20:16.185 --> 01:20:17.614 Travis Bader: A lot, an awful lot. 01:20:17.615 --> 01:20:22.985 I mean, I guess I get stuck in this whole paradox of, well, I want to be positive. 01:20:22.985 --> 01:20:24.595 So I'm going to portray positivity. 01:20:24.595 --> 01:20:26.335 And so I'm always going to put positivity out. 01:20:26.565 --> 01:20:29.265 Why would I get on social media to portray negativity? 01:20:29.960 --> 01:20:32.240 But the difficult thing is you lose 01:20:32.770 --> 01:20:34.270 Staz: authenticity, you lose 01:20:34.270 --> 01:20:34.809 Travis Bader: authenticity. 01:20:35.760 --> 01:20:37.660 Is what's really going to win the day. 01:20:37.710 --> 01:20:42.570 Like I had, um, Mark Kenyon, he's with meat eater and they've got a Netflix 01:20:42.570 --> 01:20:44.300 show, the hunting and all the rest. 01:20:44.300 --> 01:20:47.860 And he says, you know, I, I, I see the path to social media fame. 01:20:48.079 --> 01:20:51.979 You can be the hero and you can have all the great hunts and all this stuff. 01:20:52.459 --> 01:20:53.559 And I try yourself to sleep. 01:20:53.579 --> 01:20:55.039 Well, that's what he said. 01:20:55.039 --> 01:20:57.890 He says, you know, I tried going down that route and it just didn't work. 01:20:57.920 --> 01:21:00.430 The second I started showing my failures, the second I started, 01:21:00.730 --> 01:21:03.720 uh, sharing my struggles, all of a sudden, bang, I took off. 01:21:03.975 --> 01:21:08.085 And I think that authenticity is what's missing a lot of times, 01:21:08.195 --> 01:21:11.335 or people of a young age have a hard time discerning that. 01:21:12.025 --> 01:21:13.155 Staz: Yeah, it's hard. 01:21:13.155 --> 01:21:15.394 You know, it is hard and we're all guilty of it. 01:21:15.394 --> 01:21:16.585 You know, nobody wants to show that. 01:21:17.050 --> 01:21:20.260 The shit side of things that are going on, but, but it's quite 01:21:20.260 --> 01:21:21.550 refreshing sometimes, isn't it? 01:21:21.550 --> 01:21:24.010 Just to see, you know, the satire and the comedy. 01:21:24.190 --> 01:21:25.570 That's why people love comedy, isn't it? 01:21:25.575 --> 01:21:26.965 Because it's fucking, it's honest. 01:21:27.130 --> 01:21:28.660 It's honest, and it's, and it's raw. 01:21:29.620 --> 01:21:31.420 Travis Bader: So you're talking about, you know, looking up 01:21:31.420 --> 01:21:33.040 to people, guiding lights. 01:21:33.040 --> 01:21:34.030 People need someone to look. 01:21:34.060 --> 01:21:35.020 Who do you look up to? 01:21:36.420 --> 01:21:38.720 Staz: Um, I look left and right. 01:21:38.760 --> 01:21:42.940 I've got people that immediately in the business that I, uh, that I respect, 01:21:43.230 --> 01:21:46.749 you know, like Louie, you know, the co founder, somebody that I can look to 01:21:46.749 --> 01:21:50.980 professionally within the business and in life as a, as a, as a, as a person 01:21:50.980 --> 01:21:54.830 of value, somebody that I can trust, you know, there's not many people that, you 01:21:54.830 --> 01:21:58.990 know, how many people have you got on your phone that three o'clock in the fucking 01:21:58.990 --> 01:22:03.870 morning, I could ring him I wouldn't have to tell him anything, other than, I 01:22:03.870 --> 01:22:05.510 need you, can you come to me right now? 01:22:05.700 --> 01:22:09.230 He'd fucking jump out of bed, jump in his car, and he'd be with me, you know, um, 01:22:09.300 --> 01:22:13.709 ASAP, you know, and how many people have people like that in their lives, actually? 01:22:13.760 --> 01:22:14.110 Not many. 01:22:14.110 --> 01:22:14.640 Very few. 01:22:14.670 --> 01:22:17.329 You know, so you gotta fucking hold on to those people, and there's people 01:22:17.329 --> 01:22:21.120 professionally that I have like that as well, you know, that I, that I'm, I'm, 01:22:21.150 --> 01:22:27.290 um, I have very much professional respect and, and, and admiration for, uh, and 01:22:27.299 --> 01:22:30.755 then, you know, it's, I look at people like my wife, you know, Fucking have you 01:22:30.755 --> 01:22:36.105 ever, you know, the job that they say job, you know, being a parent and being 01:22:36.105 --> 01:22:41.015 a mother is fucking hard, difficult ones to balance and to shake out as well. 01:22:41.015 --> 01:22:43.344 And, you know, then there's, you know, there's other people like my 01:22:43.344 --> 01:22:45.164 granddad, you know, that have been. 01:22:45.555 --> 01:22:50.685 I didn't realize it till I got older, you know, just how good of a man he 01:22:50.685 --> 01:22:55.465 is and the values that at the time I didn't appreciate, you know, because 01:22:55.785 --> 01:22:58.614 when I was younger and I moved, you know, we moved in with them and he 01:22:58.615 --> 01:23:02.674 had old school moral values and, and there was a lot of beauty in that. 01:23:02.825 --> 01:23:05.225 You know, and it really did set me up for success. 01:23:05.225 --> 01:23:06.105 So there's people like that. 01:23:06.105 --> 01:23:08.195 And then there's other mentors that you meet along the way. 01:23:08.195 --> 01:23:10.985 People that I met in the service, in the SBS, in Special Forces. 01:23:11.245 --> 01:23:14.615 You know, people that I looked up to professionally, that I, you know, 01:23:14.615 --> 01:23:16.274 I had a huge amount of respect for. 01:23:16.515 --> 01:23:21.044 Uh, and I've been lucky in that regard, in terms of being surrounded by, you 01:23:21.045 --> 01:23:25.445 know, incredible leaders, um, you know, all the way through my career. 01:23:25.645 --> 01:23:28.695 So, you know, I have been fortunate in that respect, that I've had 01:23:28.695 --> 01:23:32.265 a lot of people around me to guide and to, uh, and to help. 01:23:32.605 --> 01:23:33.455 And support me, I guess. 01:23:34.435 --> 01:23:35.925 Travis Bader: So what's coming up next for through dark. 01:23:37.355 --> 01:23:38.305 Staz: Fuck geez. 01:23:38.345 --> 01:23:40.835 Um, loads of stuff, man. 01:23:40.835 --> 01:23:42.245 Like I said, we're year six. 01:23:42.265 --> 01:23:46.474 Um, it's, it's product that we're excited. 01:23:46.475 --> 01:23:49.295 I'm excited, you know, for the future, this next two years. 01:23:49.295 --> 01:23:51.525 I keep saying this next two years is going to be really vital. 01:23:51.805 --> 01:23:55.645 And it is the main thing for me is not so much what's coming up. 01:23:55.685 --> 01:24:00.395 It's trying to enjoy where we are right now. 01:24:00.875 --> 01:24:04.155 And everybody I speak to that's been successful are always like, Oh 01:24:04.155 --> 01:24:05.715 my God, I wish I was a you again. 01:24:05.715 --> 01:24:05.925 And. 01:24:06.235 --> 01:24:11.485 Where you are right now in this amazing growth stage of being an entrepreneur 01:24:11.515 --> 01:24:14.165 and growing your business, growing your brand is doubling and the 01:24:14.165 --> 01:24:16.335 revenues are made in the valuation. 01:24:16.355 --> 01:24:16.714 Wow. 01:24:16.714 --> 01:24:20.724 And it's like, but actually stepping back and I still pinch myself. 01:24:20.725 --> 01:24:21.325 I walk into the office. 01:24:21.445 --> 01:24:23.294 I'm like, fuck, you know, all these people. 01:24:23.294 --> 01:24:24.864 And, you know, it's incredible. 01:24:24.864 --> 01:24:28.535 We're all going on this journey together, you know, dark and 01:24:28.535 --> 01:24:30.115 it's, and it's inspiring. 01:24:30.115 --> 01:24:30.624 And, yeah. 01:24:30.765 --> 01:24:34.305 Um, you know, but there's obvious things that I have and goals that I have, 01:24:34.365 --> 01:24:37.045 you know, that I want to hit along the way, you know, you know, in terms 01:24:37.045 --> 01:24:41.215 of launching product and, uh, working with specific brands and partners 01:24:41.224 --> 01:24:43.105 and people and, and everything else. 01:24:43.105 --> 01:24:47.754 It's about, um, aligning to things that we feel that do correctly align with 01:24:47.754 --> 01:24:50.044 our values, uh, through dark as well. 01:24:50.045 --> 01:24:51.825 And, but it's hard, it's, um. 01:24:52.350 --> 01:24:55.600 You can only fit so many bits of fruit in your basket, you know, and I've learned 01:24:55.600 --> 01:24:59.160 that along the way I'm terrible for it, always trying to shove fucker fruit in 01:24:59.160 --> 01:25:01.700 the basket and ultimately things fall off. 01:25:01.710 --> 01:25:05.500 But for me, it's about staying true to who we are and what our vision is and our, and 01:25:05.500 --> 01:25:07.189 our, and our brand ethos and our goals. 01:25:07.189 --> 01:25:11.469 You know, we want to be a world leading outdoor technical clothing 01:25:11.469 --> 01:25:14.240 brand that just looks cool as fuck that people see it and they go. 01:25:14.475 --> 01:25:14.925 That's through that. 01:25:15.235 --> 01:25:15.435 Yeah. 01:25:15.435 --> 01:25:16.595 They're not fucking sold out. 01:25:16.625 --> 01:25:17.465 They are who they are. 01:25:17.465 --> 01:25:18.545 Their brand is their brand. 01:25:18.545 --> 01:25:22.225 And, you know, and that starts with the founders mentality with me and 01:25:22.255 --> 01:25:25.754 Louie, you know, leading the charge from the front, but also empowering 01:25:25.755 --> 01:25:27.114 the people that work with us as well. 01:25:27.114 --> 01:25:28.025 And I think that's great. 01:25:28.055 --> 01:25:28.385 Great. 01:25:28.385 --> 01:25:31.265 It's been amazing journey so far to be a part of, 01:25:32.365 --> 01:25:34.364 Travis Bader: is there anything that we haven't talked about 01:25:34.365 --> 01:25:35.455 that we should be talking about? 01:25:37.030 --> 01:25:38.270 Staz: Um, politics now, 01:25:41.460 --> 01:25:42.370 Travis Bader: religion and politics. 01:25:43.410 --> 01:25:43.480 I'm 01:25:43.480 --> 01:25:43.850 Staz: joking. 01:25:46.450 --> 01:25:48.339 Well, you dragged me down that fucking road. 01:25:50.229 --> 01:25:51.420 Travis Bader: That'll be over a couple of points. 01:25:52.460 --> 01:25:52.910 Staz: Yeah. 01:25:52.910 --> 01:25:53.780 Yeah, absolutely. 01:25:53.810 --> 01:25:57.690 No, I just think it's, um, I think, you know, we've covered most 01:25:57.690 --> 01:25:59.190 stuff there and, and thank you. 01:25:59.340 --> 01:26:01.950 It's been a really, really cool, um, conversation. 01:26:01.950 --> 01:26:04.350 Hopefully some people have, have gained some something from it. 01:26:04.410 --> 01:26:04.920 I dunno. 01:26:04.920 --> 01:26:06.930 And for people that didn't know about Through Dot, you know, checkers 01:26:06.935 --> 01:26:09.750 out and everything else were, uh, active across all the social media 01:26:09.750 --> 01:26:11.640 platforms and, and the website as well. 01:26:11.880 --> 01:26:15.300 My book, I guess the why I'd like to cover the, why I wrote the book, 01:26:15.300 --> 01:26:18.180 because people from the background certainly don't write books. 01:26:18.180 --> 01:26:20.345 It's frowned upon within the totally, within the, uh. 01:26:21.025 --> 01:26:25.055 Yeah, you know, within our sort of cohort, um, by some people, but, 01:26:25.095 --> 01:26:26.945 but not, not, not the majority. 01:26:27.415 --> 01:26:30.544 Um, I think we've covered it earlier. 01:26:30.574 --> 01:26:33.625 One of the main reasons I joined special forces was, was the end of it. 01:26:33.625 --> 01:26:37.565 Now that books, uh, you know, and Duncan Faulkner and all these kinds of books. 01:26:37.575 --> 01:26:37.905 So. 01:26:38.390 --> 01:26:40.890 I thought it was a great way to inspire the next generation 01:26:40.890 --> 01:26:41.840 of people coming through. 01:26:41.860 --> 01:26:43.570 You know, I tried to do something slightly different. 01:26:43.570 --> 01:26:47.439 It's not just an autobiography, although each chapter it's kind of 01:26:47.439 --> 01:26:51.969 weave in three stories, personal, professional, uh, and business. 01:26:52.479 --> 01:26:55.170 Um, so you have a, you know, a kind of special forces story, a 01:26:55.170 --> 01:26:58.354 personal story and a business through dark story and what I've learned. 01:26:58.525 --> 01:27:01.935 Um, across, across the whole period and, uh, and that's what I kind of 01:27:01.935 --> 01:27:05.525 wanted to do with the book is to kind of inform and hopefully inspire, uh, 01:27:05.525 --> 01:27:09.635 ignite for some people, um, a reason to maybe start their own business, 01:27:09.975 --> 01:27:13.545 uh, or to join the military or just to be the best versions of themselves. 01:27:13.545 --> 01:27:15.555 And books massively helped me with that. 01:27:15.625 --> 01:27:18.605 Podcasts are another medium that I use that, that really help. 01:27:18.605 --> 01:27:19.375 And that's why I do. 01:27:19.710 --> 01:27:22.630 You know, these things as well and podcasts, you know, it's, it's, 01:27:22.630 --> 01:27:23.760 um, it's always hard, isn't it? 01:27:23.760 --> 01:27:27.240 If you really look at yourself and you critically ask yourself why you're 01:27:27.240 --> 01:27:30.239 doing things that, you know, and hopefully it just leave a bit of a 01:27:30.240 --> 01:27:33.510 legacy for other people and, you know, my kids and inspire other generations, 01:27:33.510 --> 01:27:36.029 you know, for the most part, social media for all it's, it's woes. 01:27:36.029 --> 01:27:40.260 It does have a lot of positives, you know, and the messages that I receive 01:27:40.260 --> 01:27:41.920 on the platforms are incredible. 01:27:42.040 --> 01:27:46.150 Um, so I think, no, we should always, you know, it's all, it's. 01:27:47.665 --> 01:27:53.935 It's, it's, it's unfortunate that for the most part negativity is, is almost 01:27:54.485 --> 01:27:58.025 gaslighted constantly across social media platforms, but we should always look 01:27:58.025 --> 01:28:01.804 for the positives in things and in life and in situations and in opportunity. 01:28:01.805 --> 01:28:04.794 So that's what I'd like to gain from, from this conversation and from the 01:28:04.794 --> 01:28:06.564 book and from through dark as well. 01:28:06.895 --> 01:28:07.235 Well, 01:28:07.295 --> 01:28:09.515 Travis Bader: I'm going to have links in the description for the 01:28:09.515 --> 01:28:13.065 book for through dark and anything else where people can follow the 01:28:13.065 --> 01:28:14.704 Instagram social feed, all the rest. 01:28:14.704 --> 01:28:18.744 So Stas, thank you so much for being on the Slipknot podcast. 01:28:18.745 --> 01:28:19.914 I really enjoyed the chat. 01:28:20.635 --> 01:28:21.315 Staz: Mate, Travis. 01:28:21.315 --> 01:28:21.654 Thank you. 01:28:21.654 --> 01:28:23.995 We'll run it back again in a couple of years and see where we're at. 01:28:25.445 --> 01:28:37.491 I've enjoyed it, mate.